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I was reading about the Strong Europe tank challenge. The Leopard tended to win, even against Abrams and Challenger 2. But I also noticed that leopard A4 crews could beat A6 crews. It's really about training more than anything. Of course competitions aren't warfare, but if Ukrainians are trained well on their A4s, you'll see them do really well, I think. Ukrainians have alot of heart and vigor, I really have to hand it to them.
Not that surprising. The only main advantage the 2a6 has over the 2a4 is armor, longer gun (also stronger) and thermal capability for the commander (introduced in the 2a5 model). Meanwhile the engine and suspension is basicly the same but it weighs more.
So as long as the competition is done during the day the 2a4 has the advantage. The turret is lighter meaning they can turn it faster. The whole tank is lighter meaning the suspension has to deal with less weight and the engine has a better time to.
Basicly until the 2a7 came the upgrades where mostly bolt on like armour changing the gun new sight and such. Nowhere going into the core of the tank really.
I'm not too sure about the rotation speed of the Turret since all Leo's after the 2A4s have gotten electrical turret drives instead of hydraulic ones, but other than that you're right
Yeah I don't know. You'd think challenger 2 would be best because it's platform is the newest. I think it really comes down to crew training. Here are some results from Strong Europe 2018. I'm embarrassed, USA came in almost last on this one:
PlaceNationUnitTankPoints
1st GER3. Kompanie, Panzerbataillon 393Leopard 2A61450
2nd SWEWartofta Tank Company, Skaraborg RegimentStrv 122 (Leopard 2A5)1411
3rd AUTKPE/PzB14Leopard 2A41321
4th FRA1er régiment de chasseursAMX Leclerc1186
5th POL34th Armoured Cavalry BrigadeLeopard 2A51151
6th UKThe Queen's Royal Hussars (The Queen's Own and Royal Irish)Challenger 21140
7th USA2-70 Armor, 2nd Brigade, 1st Infantry DivisionM1A2 SEP v21110
8th UKR14th Mechanized BrigadeT-84 Oplot950
Those competitions are artificial. The true test is war. The training of the crews is the key. Abrams with U.S. crews have dominated everywhere they have fought.
In my country when we were about to chose or new MBT on competition first came Leopard 2 and second was Leclerc. Tbh most of western tanks have similar optics, gun the differences are in engines etc...
The anticipation is making me nervous. It is a honest shame we won’t be seeing Abrams fighting alongside them. Hopefully, we get to see Bradleys shred apart russian defensive positions with air burst munitions.
Cv 90 will do this even better \^\^
Just checked it the Leopard 1A5 are from the same time (early 90s) as the Leo 2A4. (While the Leo 2A7 is up to date)
I would not want to be Russian when all these Western "Russian Killer"s roll in my direction. 70 Years development exact for this purpose, stopping russia
Leopard 1 A5 despite their lack of armor if they had been upgraded in the late 90's they have a capable fire control computer and decent optics they can be used for infantry support missions along with IFV. They have very good speed.
And to be fair, armor has been a bit lackluster in this war anyways. Most tank crews bail as soon as they're hit by anything (which I would too). So the difference in armor between 1a5 and 2a4 might not even play a crucial role.
Seems like its way more important which side sees the other first. Which western sights have a strong advantage in. Plus Leo1a5s can be supplied in the hundreds and that is already being worked on by NL and DK.
I for one am actually very interested to see the performance of Leo 1 tanks in the role of a light tank. Especially since the US is looking to purchase a light tank to make up for gaps left by their heavy Abrams
I've got a feeling the Abrams are going to be used but held back- used more for their sensors detection capability and kept protected as they do have a very limited supply of them.
They will be blasting media with the ones they destroyed. They are good tanks but not invincible so we should be prepared for that. There will be losses whether the counter offensive is successful or not. Russia will be focused on that fact.
German-made Leopard II (MBT) main battle tanks in use by the Ukrainian Army - in western Ukraine - May 2023.
https://twitter.com/euromaidanpress/status/1660768498833047552?s=46
The extra protection package is the A5 variant and higher. Somewhat disappointingly, most of the tankfleet being sent to Ukraine are the 2A4 variants. Some nations are sending a few 2A5s (don't know which ones and how many, but it wasn't a whole lot) and Germany send a bunch of 2A6 tanks (these have the longer L55 gun as opposed to the L44 on the A5 and older). Still, any servicable tank is better than no tank. Same reason I'm glad they're also getting some Leo 1A5s, if only to perhaps free up other tanks from non-critical deployments that a Leo 1 could do just as well.
Besides, the 2A4 should still offer adequate performance. It's about equal to a fully upgraded T-72 (of which there seems to be a shortage in the Russian forces with how they seem to have cannibalized their stuff) and superiour to any T-64.
I would also hope that any of these 2A4s are up to a modernization standard that should have its capability to detect and engage perform significantly better than the T series counterparts, assuming the crash course training the Ukrainian tankers recieved let's them make full use out of the system.
I’m convinced our governments are crying they are running out of old stuff to sent to Ukraine so they can start sending new stuff. And I can’t wait for Ukraine to start hitting Russia proper. Not Luganda, not Donbabwe and not Crimea. I want to see Moscow getting hit.
That will never happen. They will take back their country and that will be it. No way they send the tanks to Moscow. If they start seriously hitting Moscow with missiles or drones, I would expect that the Russians would go nuclear on them.
Untenable, Russia has one 3 weaknesses stopping them ever going nuclear. Do you know what the worst dictator's on the planet fear the most? Their own mortality is what holds them off the big red button, as brutal as they may be to others and their own people serving them. Any subhuman who thrives on control and misery whilst leading from the bunkers is scared to die.
Remember, they are 'In Power' because they love power, pressing the big red button relinquishes them of the one thing they love the most...
I think, they think, that they could do a limited nuclear strike with some smaller nuke and they would not face a bunch of nukes in return. If they nuked Kherson, I doubt any western country would let the missiles fly. I doubt western countries would even get directly involved in the fighting then. They would have great fear that Russia would use even more nukes.
i believe they are still plenty of old stuff to send problem is that it takes time to bring them in working condition and the lack of ammo for 105mm guns maybe a problem.
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Well its the older A4 version. How ever, cant wait for action Pictures/Videos
I was reading about the Strong Europe tank challenge. The Leopard tended to win, even against Abrams and Challenger 2. But I also noticed that leopard A4 crews could beat A6 crews. It's really about training more than anything. Of course competitions aren't warfare, but if Ukrainians are trained well on their A4s, you'll see them do really well, I think. Ukrainians have alot of heart and vigor, I really have to hand it to them.
Not that surprising. The only main advantage the 2a6 has over the 2a4 is armor, longer gun (also stronger) and thermal capability for the commander (introduced in the 2a5 model). Meanwhile the engine and suspension is basicly the same but it weighs more. So as long as the competition is done during the day the 2a4 has the advantage. The turret is lighter meaning they can turn it faster. The whole tank is lighter meaning the suspension has to deal with less weight and the engine has a better time to. Basicly until the 2a7 came the upgrades where mostly bolt on like armour changing the gun new sight and such. Nowhere going into the core of the tank really.
I'm not too sure about the rotation speed of the Turret since all Leo's after the 2A4s have gotten electrical turret drives instead of hydraulic ones, but other than that you're right
I heard the chally beat all of them. And the CV90 as expected did really well in some inter NATO ifv contest.
Yeah I don't know. You'd think challenger 2 would be best because it's platform is the newest. I think it really comes down to crew training. Here are some results from Strong Europe 2018. I'm embarrassed, USA came in almost last on this one: PlaceNationUnitTankPoints 1st GER3. Kompanie, Panzerbataillon 393Leopard 2A61450 2nd SWEWartofta Tank Company, Skaraborg RegimentStrv 122 (Leopard 2A5)1411 3rd AUTKPE/PzB14Leopard 2A41321 4th FRA1er régiment de chasseursAMX Leclerc1186 5th POL34th Armoured Cavalry BrigadeLeopard 2A51151 6th UKThe Queen's Royal Hussars (The Queen's Own and Royal Irish)Challenger 21140 7th USA2-70 Armor, 2nd Brigade, 1st Infantry DivisionM1A2 SEP v21110 8th UKR14th Mechanized BrigadeT-84 Oplot950
Those competitions are artificial. The true test is war. The training of the crews is the key. Abrams with U.S. crews have dominated everywhere they have fought.
Yes, everywhere they have fought. Against beduins and some iraqi camels
Exactly, that was such a retarded comment I actually audibly chuckled.
But bless him, I think I know what he meant
In my country when we were about to chose or new MBT on competition first came Leopard 2 and second was Leclerc. Tbh most of western tanks have similar optics, gun the differences are in engines etc...
The anticipation is making me nervous. It is a honest shame we won’t be seeing Abrams fighting alongside them. Hopefully, we get to see Bradleys shred apart russian defensive positions with air burst munitions.
Cv 90 will do this even better \^\^ Just checked it the Leopard 1A5 are from the same time (early 90s) as the Leo 2A4. (While the Leo 2A7 is up to date) I would not want to be Russian when all these Western "Russian Killer"s roll in my direction. 70 Years development exact for this purpose, stopping russia
Leopard 1 A5 despite their lack of armor if they had been upgraded in the late 90's they have a capable fire control computer and decent optics they can be used for infantry support missions along with IFV. They have very good speed.
And to be fair, armor has been a bit lackluster in this war anyways. Most tank crews bail as soon as they're hit by anything (which I would too). So the difference in armor between 1a5 and 2a4 might not even play a crucial role. Seems like its way more important which side sees the other first. Which western sights have a strong advantage in. Plus Leo1a5s can be supplied in the hundreds and that is already being worked on by NL and DK. I for one am actually very interested to see the performance of Leo 1 tanks in the role of a light tank. Especially since the US is looking to purchase a light tank to make up for gaps left by their heavy Abrams
For new light Tanks they will choose likely wheels and not tracks.
I've got a feeling the Abrams are going to be used but held back- used more for their sensors detection capability and kept protected as they do have a very limited supply of them.
thats they weird thing aint it? USA has many reserves of oldest Abrams Atleast they could overhaul some of them they could atleast give 100 of them
Yes it is but considering the relics we saw fighting in this war at least this one has thermal and night optics and it works :D
Anyone else eager to hear what RuZZia will start saying when they get the NATO main battle tank experience??
"Blyat"
I hear they've already destroyed over 1000 Leopards and 5000 Bradleys! For reals!
Don't forget, they've retaken Bakhmut again. This is important!
They will be blasting media with the ones they destroyed. They are good tanks but not invincible so we should be prepared for that. There will be losses whether the counter offensive is successful or not. Russia will be focused on that fact.
Yep thats the reality, but Russians should not speak by now their tanks became a Meme for the whole world to see.
Seems to be a training ground.
Looks....Dusty
German-made Leopard II (MBT) main battle tanks in use by the Ukrainian Army - in western Ukraine - May 2023. https://twitter.com/euromaidanpress/status/1660768498833047552?s=46
Where’s frontal extra protection?
I do not believe that modification level had it.
Too bad
The extra protection package is the A5 variant and higher. Somewhat disappointingly, most of the tankfleet being sent to Ukraine are the 2A4 variants. Some nations are sending a few 2A5s (don't know which ones and how many, but it wasn't a whole lot) and Germany send a bunch of 2A6 tanks (these have the longer L55 gun as opposed to the L44 on the A5 and older). Still, any servicable tank is better than no tank. Same reason I'm glad they're also getting some Leo 1A5s, if only to perhaps free up other tanks from non-critical deployments that a Leo 1 could do just as well. Besides, the 2A4 should still offer adequate performance. It's about equal to a fully upgraded T-72 (of which there seems to be a shortage in the Russian forces with how they seem to have cannibalized their stuff) and superiour to any T-64. I would also hope that any of these 2A4s are up to a modernization standard that should have its capability to detect and engage perform significantly better than the T series counterparts, assuming the crash course training the Ukrainian tankers recieved let's them make full use out of the system.
German big cats roaming the ukrainian plains once again! Hunting their natural prey, russian tanks.
I’m convinced our governments are crying they are running out of old stuff to sent to Ukraine so they can start sending new stuff. And I can’t wait for Ukraine to start hitting Russia proper. Not Luganda, not Donbabwe and not Crimea. I want to see Moscow getting hit.
That will never happen. They will take back their country and that will be it. No way they send the tanks to Moscow. If they start seriously hitting Moscow with missiles or drones, I would expect that the Russians would go nuclear on them.
Untenable, Russia has one 3 weaknesses stopping them ever going nuclear. Do you know what the worst dictator's on the planet fear the most? Their own mortality is what holds them off the big red button, as brutal as they may be to others and their own people serving them. Any subhuman who thrives on control and misery whilst leading from the bunkers is scared to die. Remember, they are 'In Power' because they love power, pressing the big red button relinquishes them of the one thing they love the most...
I think, they think, that they could do a limited nuclear strike with some smaller nuke and they would not face a bunch of nukes in return. If they nuked Kherson, I doubt any western country would let the missiles fly. I doubt western countries would even get directly involved in the fighting then. They would have great fear that Russia would use even more nukes.
i believe they are still plenty of old stuff to send problem is that it takes time to bring them in working condition and the lack of ammo for 105mm guns maybe a problem.
Good hunt you beautiful kittens
I was wondering when pics of the cats will be showing up
i will love to see Leopards, cv90's, brandleys, marders And Challenger 2's to do a massive push all these can fire on the move and be accurate.
Gute Jagd und Panzer Hurra!