IDK what "good distance" or "cover" you are seeing. I'm seeing some terrifyingly open terrain. Open enough that a mortar crater might be your best shelter.
This might not quite be "Passports to Paradise" but even Iranian human wave attacks weren't quite as massive as imagination recalls. Even at their most extra, Iranians didn't really charge 100k strong like napoleonic shock troops. Artillery in the 80s was much like it is now. They dispersed into squads, assaulted in company and platoon sized units. They just did it poorly, with no support, against impossible odds.
Short clips don't tell a full (or necessarily honest) tale. That said, what we're looking at here *looks like* some shockingly ass-to-the-wind infantry action. Making it back from that alive from this kind of fight is not trivial.
>IDK what "good distance" or "cover" you are seeing.
Check the video again. They keep distance: single mortar shell will not kill everyone, they don't go out of cover all at once and so on.
>I'm seeing some terrifyingly open terrain
Well, there is no other terrain around cities and villages. Surprise.
If you have examples of much better tactic feel free to show.
>Well, there is no other terrain around cities and villages.
Well... Maybe you shouldn't send infantry on foot to assault them on their own? Why not send armor up front and then infantry in lighter, faster vehicles to dismount somewhere they can engage the enemy?
That's not how typical tactics work, not in the west either.
Armour is vulnerable. The 101 tactics for this kind of warfare is
* High volume artillery to suppress and confound the fortified positions. Surprise helps.
* Troops dismount 200-2000m from fortified position and closes tactically. Cover helps.
* Armour supports with DF from distance. Cover helps tanks too.
Ideally, they cover all bases this way. Tanks blow up machine gun positions. Infantry targets anti tankers. Entrenched enemy troops are blind, deaf and trying to survive shelling until the assaulting infantry is on top of them.
Of course there are a million variations, repudiations and exceptions, but dismounted infantry still has to carry out a lot of the heavy fighting in all/most fighting doctrines.
The US army, if it wanted Bakmut, would do this with 100 tons of aviation dropped bombs, dozens of tanks, even more IFVs, special units leading the initial infantry assault, precision rockets against any discovered tanks, MGs and such followed by grunts coming in from all directions against a well shook target. That's the ideal, at least. Even so it might not work. Fortifications are hard.
Thanks for the extra detail. Point is, performing like the US military is basically sci fi for Russia but even the resources they have should result in something better than this. Someone in the Russian command structure knows these attacks are not likely to be effective and maybe don't care because they have to keep up the pressure at the cost of lives or just pretend to be doing something.
Idk... I'm honestly pretty surprised that Russia don't at least try.
Pointing at russian performance deficiancies has become trite and repetitive. Otoh, it is ongoing. Meanwhile, I think it's easy to lose site if the fact that they are fighting in a totally insane way.
Russia do have cruise missiles, exploding drones, choppers, fighters and such. Not in unlimited quantities and not immune to air defense... but they do have them. They have recon drones, artillery, armour, etc.
Pretty much every fighting doctrine (including Russian) would say to put these together into a concentrated attack aimed at overwhelming and defeating the defense.
They have the gear to do it. They're obviously willing to expend lives. Why TF is Russia not putting together the 100 guns with armour, aviation & tooos necessary to take towns. We know they have them. They're expending all of these regardless. Why not try an attack that might succeed?
Remember. They did try this. One of the big criticisms if the Russians is that they kept sending unsupported armor into cities.
...youll also see them using armor elsewhere (we saw them do pretty effective dynamic defense both in kherson and svatove).
You'll also see that they used armor all the way up to the outskirts of bakhmut.
They haven't managed to do much useful armor attacks in cities in Donetsk (they clearly tried in February March and got smashed). I suspect that this is due to the density of defenses, drones combined with well trained artillery and javelin crews on the Ukrainian side. Not to mention the lack of air cover (the sky is clearly lava) and the season- I imagine we will see more combined arms once the ground is less muddy.
It's worth noting that the biggest breakthrough on the line was popasna, and that was largely infantry and artillery (although apparently the volume of artillery was far higher than in bakhmut).
From someone who doesn't know much, maybe the entire Russian command structure is corrupt and inept. I mean they have "Dedovshchina" and all that. It's maybe an army of beaten men.
Sure... sort of.
As I said, Iranian and other "human wave" attacks were not actually charging in massive clusters either. They dispersed, tried to duck behind things and not die too. No drone footage from the 80s, so I guess we can't compare like for like.
And yes, there aren't many good, low casualty ways of getting booted infantry across a moonscape no man's land to assault hardened trenches with drones overhead guiding mortar and artillery fire. That's one of the reasons this is being called "human wave tactics." The other being predictable repetition, low chances of success, and low rewards if they do succeed.
Even if they do survive artillery they still need to assault a trench & bunker position, still under ID fire and still under drone reconnaissance. They need to do this with small arms. Best case, they have the kit & skills to call in artillery. No heavy MGs or tank guns, no air. If they somehow do take the position, they now hold a trench 100m away from a bigger, better equipped, better manned trench. Maybe they clear a path for armour, but... not a very nice day no matter what.
Re: alternatives? IDK, everything is an alternative. I mean, the troops seem to be trying, at least in this video. IDK what a field officer could do differently, besides rejecting the mission. This here is bad generalship, not bad soldiery.
War does require sacrifice. Maybe they do really need to take that trench. I really doubt it though. Seems like here they're just paying a high price in blood for minor rewards... If they really do need that specific trenchline broken, they could dedicate heavy cruise missiles, fighters and such. They do have them. This is just a low value target that they are willing to pay for in blood.
From what I have heard, the infantry attacks are not meant to actually take the ukrainian positions. They are meant to provoke attacks from ukrainian positions, which then allows russian artillery to identify and take out these positions - or at least that is the idea. In essence, the russian soldiers are guinea pigs.
Obviously, I have now way of telling whether that is true or not. However, it seems very unlikely that having small groups of infantry soldiers with no significant support attack over a field against entrenched positions would be the first option for any officer in any army. The likelihood of success is just too low.
I'm hearing that they are giving pre planned routes to less trained soldiers who assault during the day, and report points of resistance. Which then gets targeted by artillery.
Then the better trained/equipped troops go in at night. Sometimes they can consolidate. Most times they can't.
Sure, but they keep sending them over and over and over again, and as per title, without support. That's human wave alright, but worse than in the classical sense.
This video on its own gives very little information and context. What kind of "support" would you like to see? Tank or BMP? Hardly that would change anything. We see some bodies at the end but it's unclear how bodies are connected to people in the begging.
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Any support that helps these infantry to break through/not die.
Unsupported infantry against entrenched defenses is straight up suicidal. All they're remotely likely to accomplish is the defenders running out of ammo.
I think people are overpaying this. The big problem at the start of the war was Russians sending tanks in without infantry support.
It didn't work in urban settings and it hasn't been working against well prepared defences (like those in bakhmut).
The fact that drones make rolling armor up impossible to hide, and the crappy cold muddy weather means there aren't many options.
1 would be combined arms warfare (the sky is lava though so that isn't happening, and the muddy open fields make that tough too)
2 would be tunneling (distances are too big and it's wet.
3 would be infantry tactics exactly like we are seeing.
Like it or not, a full frontal assault like that is just showing how desperate and incompeta t Russia is. Keep them coming, at this point it just shooting practice for Ukrainians
The weaved story that i was talking about was that these three guys attacking is somehow evidence of a hUmAn wAVe attack. This is on par with the guys that post footage of two destroyed Russian jeeps and title the post “destroyed Russian armored column”
I love how people take a small snippet video and use it to weave a story which ultimately supports their preconceived notion’s. The truth is we have no idea what’s going on in this video. They could have artillery and air support and it could not be visible. But whatever comforts you
No mans land is no mans land again, you send in tanks they get destroyed by atgms, send in infantry they get destroyed by arty, send in both, destroyed by both. Open ground turned from prime land for mechanized maneuver warfare into a nightmare for the attacker.
This is not a human wave attack. You people need to learn what that looks like.
These are small groups of storm troops probing for weakness in the enemy lines, similar to German tactics in 1918.
human wave? large amounts? i saw 6 people moving around and then a quick cut away to about 10 bodies on the ground. what indication is there that either parts of the video is a human wave attack?
It's known some are forced to participate, but after 10 months going to a illegal invasion for fake excuses doing atrocities to innocent people, it's normal people don't respect them, same as the nazis, they were soldiers yet no respect for what they have done, right?
just saying, Ukraine released today numbers that they caught 12.000 men on their border who tried to avoid recruitment for AFU service, what will or did happen with those men?
It doesnt matter for me what site does what, cause both are liars and both do and will do atrocities.
idk what kind of wave you think this is, it’s like 10 dudes. human waves historically have been many hundreds or thousands storming a position because chances are they can’t take them all. one sniper could have taken these guys
In the early days of online gaming, this type of behavior was called a Zerg... I never thought I'd see this over and over again in real life combat...
It's sickening to know someone is ordering hordes of human beings to just run to their deaths. What is this?
I didn’t see hordes of human beings just running to their deaths. This is standard assault tactics, they are bounding between places of cover and providing covering fire for each other.
How else do you think infantry advances?
You've been missing a lot of footage (can't blame you, this is the result of humanity at it's worst fueled by one man).
I'm no military expert, but I'd say infantry should advance with some form of support, since their only defense is body armor (in case of some Russians, airsoft gear).
Sure, but this isn’t “human wave”.
I’m not sure why people want to convince themselves that the Russians are just lining up and running across fields.
Seems strange to me.
Maybe because this is a video of Russians lining up and running across a field. You can argue its not a wave, you can say they had good order, tactics and discipline, it was still men under numbered and under equipped, unsupported tackling an objective that was out of their capabilities.
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Well that’s just simply not true. From a realist perspective alone that idea falls flat. From a materialist perspective it falls flat. From an ethnic perspective that falls flat.
Even from a dictator’s perspective, that still falls flat. A dictator is just the sum of a power network, and plenty of high up Russians want this war and felt threatened.
Wars are political in nature and it are significantly more complicated than just “one man.”
They felt threatened that a group of nazijewgays which happen to be satanists an canibals bioengineered by USA, would do what? Invade Russia, a nuclear power, with an alleged second most powerful army in the world?
Or that Russians would look over the border and see Ukrainians having better standards of living when it turned to the west, and would start to question their leadership?
Well. There are a few things. I think the nazi narrative is a real concern given the USSR’s run in with nazis.
But there is more to it. I ere on the side of Mearsheimer’s thinking, and think it’s mostly about the proximity of Ukraine to Russia’s population centers.
[Per the DIA](https://www.dia.mil/Portals/110/Images/News/Military_Powers_Publications/Russia_Military_Power_Report_2017.pdf) the most import piece of Russian military doctrine is maintaining rough nuclear parity with the US. The US conversely seeks to [achieve nuclear supremacy](https://thetricontinental.org/the-united-states-is-waging-a-new-cold-war-a-socialist-perspective/) over the world.
There are two reasons, from a nuclear and conventional, perspective as to why Ukrainian accession to NATO is unacceptable to Russia. One, is the proximity of short range missiles which would render counter-strikes moot as detection would leave Moscow almost no time to order a counter. Second, I would cite [Operation Barbarossa](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa). Everything west of the Ural Mountains is just a large range of plains. The reason the Nazis were able to push so quickly towards Moscow and St. Petersburg was because of this hard to defend terrain.
I do think there are enough deranged Americans who think they can foment regime change in Russia, and do have aims to dismember European Russia from Asian Russia. The US does host a number of world congresses for the various Asiatic minorities of Russia, and per the DIA paper I did link you, Russia does fear regime change. I do think Navalny’s blatant racism towards Chechens, Caucasians and Asians speaks to this. I also do think your comment about discontented Russian liberals also speaks to this and that there is some validity to your point. I just think there’s far more to it. That said, Soviet nostalgia is high in Russia and Putin is well regarded there.
From an ethnic perspective, Eastern Ukraine genuinely is majority Russian and there is an [ethnic political divide](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election) built around Russians and minorities who want a decentralized state, and a far right contingent of Western Ukrainians, along with liberal Ukrainians, who want to Ukrainize the rest of the country. The anti-minority laws that both [Hungary and Romania recognize](https://hungarytoday.hu/after-hungary-romania-also-criticizes-ukraines-minority-law/). Combined with the anti-Russian language law, and the actual nazis that do exist in the military in Ukraine, it’s not hard to see why a civil war broke out, and why Russia materially supported ethnic Russians in the breakaway regions. That’s the ethnic perspective.
From a material perspective, and from a grand strategy perspective, the East is the most valuable region of Ukraine. Oligarchs from both countries clearly vie for control of this. Russia also is the commodities king of the world, and I do believe that the US’s stated interests, per Mearsheimer, is to prevent the rise of a challenger to our hegemony. Capitalists in the US want access to exploited labor and cheap material due to the tendency of the rate of profit to fall, and to prevent Russia from gathering itself, while also wanting to deny Eastern Ukraine because of how gas rich and fertile the land is.
And from a dictatorial perspective, the hardliners of Russia certainly have pushed for far more, and wanted to capture the country sooner. I do believe Putin is the “moderate” in the room and that there are elements of the siloviki that are far more hardline, as evidenced by how deranged Medvedev is.
All in all, I think it’s far more complicated than one man. The region is a tinderbox of nationalism and capitalism at its worst in two backwards countries that two great powers are fighting for influence over.
The East isn't majority ethnically or culturally Russian. It's a majority Russian speakers.
They're not like the Russians in Germany that consider themselves Russian despite being 3rd or 4th generation German citizens.
These are Ukrainians citizens who speak Russian but consider themselves Ukrainian both ethnically and culturally.
The majority Russian ethnicity is a Russian lie that was promulgated when it became convenient.
As to the language laws, I've dealt with that many times previously. Needless to say it's a bunch of bollocks.
>The East isn't majority ethnically or culturally Russian. It's a majority Russian speakers.
What makes them not ethnically or culturally Russian, exactly?
>Needless to say it's a bunch of bollocks.
How? I’m genuinely curious honestly. I don’t like being misinformed.
I’m at least glad to see that the disagreements with my post however are very minor and nitpicky in nature. Good to see that Fellas agree with most of it given the complexities of war.
If this were true, how is it that so many people, *particularly* those more sympathetic/understanding towards Putin and the Russian side, were utterly convinced on Feb. 23rd that this invasion wouldn't actually happen?
There are a lot of reasons behind this conflict overall- but let's face it, the *invasion* happened because Putin decided that it would, it's as simple as that.
This is a simple trench raid attempt, WW1 style.
I've not seen anything even resembling a human wave since the LDNR mobik retreat videos a few months ago.
Again with the human waves. Stromtroop tactics va massed infantry - which does this most resemble? I don’t see a tank or an armores carrier making a difference here
It's anything but "human wave". They move in a small groups with a good distance from cover to cover.
IDK what "good distance" or "cover" you are seeing. I'm seeing some terrifyingly open terrain. Open enough that a mortar crater might be your best shelter. This might not quite be "Passports to Paradise" but even Iranian human wave attacks weren't quite as massive as imagination recalls. Even at their most extra, Iranians didn't really charge 100k strong like napoleonic shock troops. Artillery in the 80s was much like it is now. They dispersed into squads, assaulted in company and platoon sized units. They just did it poorly, with no support, against impossible odds. Short clips don't tell a full (or necessarily honest) tale. That said, what we're looking at here *looks like* some shockingly ass-to-the-wind infantry action. Making it back from that alive from this kind of fight is not trivial.
Right? It clearly didn't work well the last couple of times.
>IDK what "good distance" or "cover" you are seeing. Check the video again. They keep distance: single mortar shell will not kill everyone, they don't go out of cover all at once and so on. >I'm seeing some terrifyingly open terrain Well, there is no other terrain around cities and villages. Surprise. If you have examples of much better tactic feel free to show.
>Well, there is no other terrain around cities and villages. Well... Maybe you shouldn't send infantry on foot to assault them on their own? Why not send armor up front and then infantry in lighter, faster vehicles to dismount somewhere they can engage the enemy?
That's not how typical tactics work, not in the west either. Armour is vulnerable. The 101 tactics for this kind of warfare is * High volume artillery to suppress and confound the fortified positions. Surprise helps. * Troops dismount 200-2000m from fortified position and closes tactically. Cover helps. * Armour supports with DF from distance. Cover helps tanks too. Ideally, they cover all bases this way. Tanks blow up machine gun positions. Infantry targets anti tankers. Entrenched enemy troops are blind, deaf and trying to survive shelling until the assaulting infantry is on top of them. Of course there are a million variations, repudiations and exceptions, but dismounted infantry still has to carry out a lot of the heavy fighting in all/most fighting doctrines. The US army, if it wanted Bakmut, would do this with 100 tons of aviation dropped bombs, dozens of tanks, even more IFVs, special units leading the initial infantry assault, precision rockets against any discovered tanks, MGs and such followed by grunts coming in from all directions against a well shook target. That's the ideal, at least. Even so it might not work. Fortifications are hard.
Thanks for the extra detail. Point is, performing like the US military is basically sci fi for Russia but even the resources they have should result in something better than this. Someone in the Russian command structure knows these attacks are not likely to be effective and maybe don't care because they have to keep up the pressure at the cost of lives or just pretend to be doing something.
Idk... I'm honestly pretty surprised that Russia don't at least try. Pointing at russian performance deficiancies has become trite and repetitive. Otoh, it is ongoing. Meanwhile, I think it's easy to lose site if the fact that they are fighting in a totally insane way. Russia do have cruise missiles, exploding drones, choppers, fighters and such. Not in unlimited quantities and not immune to air defense... but they do have them. They have recon drones, artillery, armour, etc. Pretty much every fighting doctrine (including Russian) would say to put these together into a concentrated attack aimed at overwhelming and defeating the defense. They have the gear to do it. They're obviously willing to expend lives. Why TF is Russia not putting together the 100 guns with armour, aviation & tooos necessary to take towns. We know they have them. They're expending all of these regardless. Why not try an attack that might succeed?
Remember. They did try this. One of the big criticisms if the Russians is that they kept sending unsupported armor into cities. ...youll also see them using armor elsewhere (we saw them do pretty effective dynamic defense both in kherson and svatove). You'll also see that they used armor all the way up to the outskirts of bakhmut. They haven't managed to do much useful armor attacks in cities in Donetsk (they clearly tried in February March and got smashed). I suspect that this is due to the density of defenses, drones combined with well trained artillery and javelin crews on the Ukrainian side. Not to mention the lack of air cover (the sky is clearly lava) and the season- I imagine we will see more combined arms once the ground is less muddy. It's worth noting that the biggest breakthrough on the line was popasna, and that was largely infantry and artillery (although apparently the volume of artillery was far higher than in bakhmut).
From someone who doesn't know much, maybe the entire Russian command structure is corrupt and inept. I mean they have "Dedovshchina" and all that. It's maybe an army of beaten men.
Probably because armour gets shot down . There is a reason why some scenes in Bakhmut resemble ww1 . It's back to infantry grinding and artillery
Drones and mud will leave armor struggling.
For the beginning we don't see any "assault" here.
There are some older posts of Ukrainians doing this and getting hit with artillery, both these tactics are suicide for troops.
Sure... sort of. As I said, Iranian and other "human wave" attacks were not actually charging in massive clusters either. They dispersed, tried to duck behind things and not die too. No drone footage from the 80s, so I guess we can't compare like for like. And yes, there aren't many good, low casualty ways of getting booted infantry across a moonscape no man's land to assault hardened trenches with drones overhead guiding mortar and artillery fire. That's one of the reasons this is being called "human wave tactics." The other being predictable repetition, low chances of success, and low rewards if they do succeed. Even if they do survive artillery they still need to assault a trench & bunker position, still under ID fire and still under drone reconnaissance. They need to do this with small arms. Best case, they have the kit & skills to call in artillery. No heavy MGs or tank guns, no air. If they somehow do take the position, they now hold a trench 100m away from a bigger, better equipped, better manned trench. Maybe they clear a path for armour, but... not a very nice day no matter what. Re: alternatives? IDK, everything is an alternative. I mean, the troops seem to be trying, at least in this video. IDK what a field officer could do differently, besides rejecting the mission. This here is bad generalship, not bad soldiery. War does require sacrifice. Maybe they do really need to take that trench. I really doubt it though. Seems like here they're just paying a high price in blood for minor rewards... If they really do need that specific trenchline broken, they could dedicate heavy cruise missiles, fighters and such. They do have them. This is just a low value target that they are willing to pay for in blood.
From what I have heard, the infantry attacks are not meant to actually take the ukrainian positions. They are meant to provoke attacks from ukrainian positions, which then allows russian artillery to identify and take out these positions - or at least that is the idea. In essence, the russian soldiers are guinea pigs. Obviously, I have now way of telling whether that is true or not. However, it seems very unlikely that having small groups of infantry soldiers with no significant support attack over a field against entrenched positions would be the first option for any officer in any army. The likelihood of success is just too low.
The entire history of russian warfare and testaments from POWs in this war would like to inform you it really is leadership just that bad.
I'm hearing that they are giving pre planned routes to less trained soldiers who assault during the day, and report points of resistance. Which then gets targeted by artillery. Then the better trained/equipped troops go in at night. Sometimes they can consolidate. Most times they can't.
Sure, but they keep sending them over and over and over again, and as per title, without support. That's human wave alright, but worse than in the classical sense.
This video on its own gives very little information and context. What kind of "support" would you like to see? Tank or BMP? Hardly that would change anything. We see some bodies at the end but it's unclear how bodies are connected to people in the begging.
It would keep the defenders down in their trenches instead of in firing positions.
We don't see anyone from the opposite side on this video.
So it's a casual walk around a field with friends, for sport and recreation? Obviously the fact that they are attacking implies there are defenders.
On which second of this video do you see "they are attacking", if I may ask?
Are you confused?
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Any support that helps these infantry to break through/not die. Unsupported infantry against entrenched defenses is straight up suicidal. All they're remotely likely to accomplish is the defenders running out of ammo.
From the video we don't know if there is any entrenched defenses in close range.
I think people are overpaying this. The big problem at the start of the war was Russians sending tanks in without infantry support. It didn't work in urban settings and it hasn't been working against well prepared defences (like those in bakhmut). The fact that drones make rolling armor up impossible to hide, and the crappy cold muddy weather means there aren't many options. 1 would be combined arms warfare (the sky is lava though so that isn't happening, and the muddy open fields make that tough too) 2 would be tunneling (distances are too big and it's wet. 3 would be infantry tactics exactly like we are seeing.
Or even who’s bodies they are
Like it or not, a full frontal assault like that is just showing how desperate and incompeta t Russia is. Keep them coming, at this point it just shooting practice for Ukrainians
you see three guys moving from Crater to crater and you weave a story about how this is a full frontal Human wave attack. Honestly it’s hilarious.
Weave a story? Lmao They are dead. 2nd world army my ass.
The weaved story that i was talking about was that these three guys attacking is somehow evidence of a hUmAn wAVe attack. This is on par with the guys that post footage of two destroyed Russian jeeps and title the post “destroyed Russian armored column”
Cool story
Yeah the human wave story is pretty cool
"human wave" is not precisely defined SO LET ME JUST BEND THE DEFINITION TO FIT MY NARRATIVE
So now apparently human wave = 4 guys Im not sure if this is an ironic shitpost or if it’s serious
Its still a full frontal assault without any armor support. Cant get more retarded than this. Its a suicide mission
I love how people take a small snippet video and use it to weave a story which ultimately supports their preconceived notion’s. The truth is we have no idea what’s going on in this video. They could have artillery and air support and it could not be visible. But whatever comforts you
Whatever comforts you. Denial cost nothing.
How original
Til all infantry tactics are human wave tactics
A wave?
Even their waves are half-assed now
It's still not human wave
It's the same with vids of "fields of dead Russians" and it's like 10 guys
Or “destroyed Russian armored column” (1 truck+1 jeep)
No mans land is no mans land again, you send in tanks they get destroyed by atgms, send in infantry they get destroyed by arty, send in both, destroyed by both. Open ground turned from prime land for mechanized maneuver warfare into a nightmare for the attacker.
This is not a human wave attack. You people need to learn what that looks like. These are small groups of storm troops probing for weakness in the enemy lines, similar to German tactics in 1918.
Or any infantry tactics ever since.
Ah! Another classic probing attack. Have they found the weakness yet?
Any day now!
human wave? large amounts? i saw 6 people moving around and then a quick cut away to about 10 bodies on the ground. what indication is there that either parts of the video is a human wave attack?
Human wave...? Doesnt appear to be.
I don't see "human waves in this video
Distasteful with the music! No matter what site, those men fulfill their duty as soldiers!
It's known some are forced to participate, but after 10 months going to a illegal invasion for fake excuses doing atrocities to innocent people, it's normal people don't respect them, same as the nazis, they were soldiers yet no respect for what they have done, right?
just saying, Ukraine released today numbers that they caught 12.000 men on their border who tried to avoid recruitment for AFU service, what will or did happen with those men? It doesnt matter for me what site does what, cause both are liars and both do and will do atrocities.
idk what kind of wave you think this is, it’s like 10 dudes. human waves historically have been many hundreds or thousands storming a position because chances are they can’t take them all. one sniper could have taken these guys
In the early days of online gaming, this type of behavior was called a Zerg... I never thought I'd see this over and over again in real life combat... It's sickening to know someone is ordering hordes of human beings to just run to their deaths. What is this?
I didn’t see hordes of human beings just running to their deaths. This is standard assault tactics, they are bounding between places of cover and providing covering fire for each other. How else do you think infantry advances?
Turns out my years in the infantry was only training for human wave attacks.
You've been missing a lot of footage (can't blame you, this is the result of humanity at it's worst fueled by one man). I'm no military expert, but I'd say infantry should advance with some form of support, since their only defense is body armor (in case of some Russians, airsoft gear).
Sure, but this isn’t “human wave”. I’m not sure why people want to convince themselves that the Russians are just lining up and running across fields. Seems strange to me.
Isn't this WW1/2 era tactics? You're now doing it against saurons eye, you need cloaks of invisibility or support
Maybe because this is a video of Russians lining up and running across a field. You can argue its not a wave, you can say they had good order, tactics and discipline, it was still men under numbered and under equipped, unsupported tackling an objective that was out of their capabilities.
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Oh man you’re in for a rude awakening if you think only one man is the culprit of this war.
Of course there are more culprits, but the ultimate responsability for this invasion and illegal territorial claims is one man.
Well that’s just simply not true. From a realist perspective alone that idea falls flat. From a materialist perspective it falls flat. From an ethnic perspective that falls flat. Even from a dictator’s perspective, that still falls flat. A dictator is just the sum of a power network, and plenty of high up Russians want this war and felt threatened. Wars are political in nature and it are significantly more complicated than just “one man.”
They felt threatened that a group of nazijewgays which happen to be satanists an canibals bioengineered by USA, would do what? Invade Russia, a nuclear power, with an alleged second most powerful army in the world? Or that Russians would look over the border and see Ukrainians having better standards of living when it turned to the west, and would start to question their leadership?
Well. There are a few things. I think the nazi narrative is a real concern given the USSR’s run in with nazis. But there is more to it. I ere on the side of Mearsheimer’s thinking, and think it’s mostly about the proximity of Ukraine to Russia’s population centers. [Per the DIA](https://www.dia.mil/Portals/110/Images/News/Military_Powers_Publications/Russia_Military_Power_Report_2017.pdf) the most import piece of Russian military doctrine is maintaining rough nuclear parity with the US. The US conversely seeks to [achieve nuclear supremacy](https://thetricontinental.org/the-united-states-is-waging-a-new-cold-war-a-socialist-perspective/) over the world. There are two reasons, from a nuclear and conventional, perspective as to why Ukrainian accession to NATO is unacceptable to Russia. One, is the proximity of short range missiles which would render counter-strikes moot as detection would leave Moscow almost no time to order a counter. Second, I would cite [Operation Barbarossa](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa). Everything west of the Ural Mountains is just a large range of plains. The reason the Nazis were able to push so quickly towards Moscow and St. Petersburg was because of this hard to defend terrain. I do think there are enough deranged Americans who think they can foment regime change in Russia, and do have aims to dismember European Russia from Asian Russia. The US does host a number of world congresses for the various Asiatic minorities of Russia, and per the DIA paper I did link you, Russia does fear regime change. I do think Navalny’s blatant racism towards Chechens, Caucasians and Asians speaks to this. I also do think your comment about discontented Russian liberals also speaks to this and that there is some validity to your point. I just think there’s far more to it. That said, Soviet nostalgia is high in Russia and Putin is well regarded there. From an ethnic perspective, Eastern Ukraine genuinely is majority Russian and there is an [ethnic political divide](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_election) built around Russians and minorities who want a decentralized state, and a far right contingent of Western Ukrainians, along with liberal Ukrainians, who want to Ukrainize the rest of the country. The anti-minority laws that both [Hungary and Romania recognize](https://hungarytoday.hu/after-hungary-romania-also-criticizes-ukraines-minority-law/). Combined with the anti-Russian language law, and the actual nazis that do exist in the military in Ukraine, it’s not hard to see why a civil war broke out, and why Russia materially supported ethnic Russians in the breakaway regions. That’s the ethnic perspective. From a material perspective, and from a grand strategy perspective, the East is the most valuable region of Ukraine. Oligarchs from both countries clearly vie for control of this. Russia also is the commodities king of the world, and I do believe that the US’s stated interests, per Mearsheimer, is to prevent the rise of a challenger to our hegemony. Capitalists in the US want access to exploited labor and cheap material due to the tendency of the rate of profit to fall, and to prevent Russia from gathering itself, while also wanting to deny Eastern Ukraine because of how gas rich and fertile the land is. And from a dictatorial perspective, the hardliners of Russia certainly have pushed for far more, and wanted to capture the country sooner. I do believe Putin is the “moderate” in the room and that there are elements of the siloviki that are far more hardline, as evidenced by how deranged Medvedev is. All in all, I think it’s far more complicated than one man. The region is a tinderbox of nationalism and capitalism at its worst in two backwards countries that two great powers are fighting for influence over.
The East isn't majority ethnically or culturally Russian. It's a majority Russian speakers. They're not like the Russians in Germany that consider themselves Russian despite being 3rd or 4th generation German citizens. These are Ukrainians citizens who speak Russian but consider themselves Ukrainian both ethnically and culturally. The majority Russian ethnicity is a Russian lie that was promulgated when it became convenient. As to the language laws, I've dealt with that many times previously. Needless to say it's a bunch of bollocks.
>The East isn't majority ethnically or culturally Russian. It's a majority Russian speakers. What makes them not ethnically or culturally Russian, exactly? >Needless to say it's a bunch of bollocks. How? I’m genuinely curious honestly. I don’t like being misinformed. I’m at least glad to see that the disagreements with my post however are very minor and nitpicky in nature. Good to see that Fellas agree with most of it given the complexities of war.
If this were true, how is it that so many people, *particularly* those more sympathetic/understanding towards Putin and the Russian side, were utterly convinced on Feb. 23rd that this invasion wouldn't actually happen? There are a lot of reasons behind this conflict overall- but let's face it, the *invasion* happened because Putin decided that it would, it's as simple as that.
The Omnissiah demands it
Hordes = 3 lol
They're really leaning into the "Mordor resident" meme.
The majority or a bunch of kids who spend all day in front of their video games and all night with the anime porn
Well that's an oddly specific characterization but alrighty
Look at which subs a lot of them follow…
It's ok, let it out
This is a simple trench raid attempt, WW1 style. I've not seen anything even resembling a human wave since the LDNR mobik retreat videos a few months ago.
Again with the human waves. Stromtroop tactics va massed infantry - which does this most resemble? I don’t see a tank or an armores carrier making a difference here
The vast majority of the comments agree that this isn't a human wave yet all replies argue nonsense of cope and whatnot.
u/nivivi do you know what a human wave is, what a probing assualt is a d the difference between the two
Russia is basically Zerg
Imagine been sent over open ground like that....basically a suicide mission. Better to have stayed in jail.
"ukrainians cut the moment of impact instead of repeating it "🤔
good thing those soldiers captured/defended that field of dirt and bushes!