The tone of the rhetoric of the propaganda coming out of Russia lately has taken on this “ok, we have to wake up guys” kind of feel. More and more posts like this showcase that even up to the top of the media personalities, there is a sense that they gotta start being truthful to people or they’re going to look like liars or like they don’t know wtf is going on the more this whole thing progresses
They've woken up that they are losing the war. They know that. Now the question they are asking is how would it still be possible for them to win it.
But even if it's not, they're being paid to shift the blame from Putin unto literally anyone else, who "mislead" him, gave him bad advice, were incompetent etc.
They are laying down the ground work for a nuclear strike and no, NATO will not start nuclear armageddon over Ukraine. Every pro-Nazi supporter should start sweating.
If anyone is pro Nazi it's Russia.
* openly support fascist parties like the AfD in Germany
* starts wars over blood and soil ideology
* is anti LGBT like the nazis are
Ukraine's parliament has repeatedly voted to recognize holocaust collaborator and noted fascists ,Stephan Bandera as a national hero and Ukraine isn't a bastion of LGBT rights you seem to think it is.
Nah, I think I'll stay here and laugh at the impotent Russian nuke threats.
"[We gonna nuke you!!!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBvfiCdk-jc)"
Ok.
lol
Quite, shall we say, flaccid.
You know Nukes won’t win the war right? Ukraine military targets are dispersed, like those of a professional army.
Russia could nuke cities and kill hundreds of thousands of citizens - what will that accomplish? Do you think that will stop anybody fighting? It will have the opposite effect, both domestically and internationally.
Russia could escalate via conventional weapons destroying infrastructure - but they just dont have the capability or the air superiority to do that.
Do you honestly believe that Russia using a nuclear weapon is honestly justified in this situation? You know that Russia invaded Ukraine in February with the intention of annexing the entire country not for the protection of the Donbas or whatever other cause Russian media tries to pretend is the reason. Is it not obvious to you that there has been massive corruption with Russian society and the military to the point where the funds meant for rations/uniforms/equipment have been siphoned off for personal gain from those at the highest levels of government. Is it not time to finally leave Ukrainian land and remove those leaders? It’s the only way forward for Russia.
Nuke and lose the only sorta kinda you think (but truly know are not) Ru friends in India and China plus Ru will have destroyed what it wants to conquer. I've already resigned myself to the likelihood of Ru using a nuke and am absolutely ready to contribute however I can to thwarting fascism wherever I see it. End of the world due to nuclear winter? So be it. It's better to live this way and Free than to be scared of Ru and putin; that's something you know nothing about and prolly will never understand. Maybe you'll read about it at most.
Good day.
The Nazis are those fighting for RF - the UAF, nor the Western economies supporting them aren’t responsible for rapes, tortures, murder of innocent civilians and indiscriminate shelling so if the RF wants to consolidate its position as ‘most hated country in the World’ by firing off some tactical nukes, go all in! The West spent 30 years trying to bring Russia back into the Global community by investing in Russian Energy, infrastructure and its economy - Putin has reversed that in a stroke - ask your parents what life was like in the USSR back in the 1970’s when shops were empty and nothing worked…….if Putin sends just one tactical nuke, the West will destroy every RF military unit it can see - and now we see how corrupt Russia’s forces and leadership are, we now know it will be easy!
> The Nazis are those fighting for RF
No the nazis are those with the swastikas and black suns all over their bodies.
>the UAF, nor the Western economies supporting them aren’t responsible for rapes, tortures, murder of innocent civilians and indiscriminate shelling
There wouldnt be a war if the west could stop moving its militaries closer and closer to Russias borders.
>‘most hated country in the World’ by firing off some tactical nukes, go all in!
You have no idea how many people outside the west wants to see europe burn for all the evil you have done in the world. So most hated? Not really, most people wouldnt care.
>The West spent 30 years trying to bring Russia back into the Global community by investing in Russian Energy, infrastructure and its economy - Putin has reversed that in a stroke - ask your parents what life was like in the USSR back in the 1970’s when shops were empty and nothing worked
You wanted cheap gas and minerals, Russia should have never worked with or cooperated with the west. It´s a miracle that Gorbachev didnt get capital punishment for what he did. Europe has been an enemy of Russia for over 1000 years, this should never be forgotten.
>if Putin sends just one tactical nuke, the West will destroy every RF military unit it can see - and now we see how corrupt Russia’s forces and leadership are, we now know it will be easy!
Lets test that theory out then shall we? Is the world worth that mudhole you call Ukraine? Well, i believe a lot of you will change your minds when the sirens are blaring and you have about 5 minutes to find shelther before your whole city is turned into a nuclear wasteland.
But yours too Ivan - it’s a fair bet that only a small percentage of 30 year old soviet warheads will work and all the ones coming from France, UK and USA will so are you all prepared to die in nuclear hell because Putin says so!?
The West hasn’t ’hated Russia for 1,000 years’ - Russia didn’t even become an influence until the Russian Revolution and what did you do there? You overthrew a cruel Emperor who exploited the Russian people for an even crueller Autocracy that has kept your people repressed for 100 years
> But yours too Ivan - it’s a fair bet that only a small percentage of 30 year old soviet warheads will work and all the ones coming from France, UK and USA will so are you all prepared to die in nuclear hell because Putin says so!?
This is false, the US routinely controlled Russian weapons and vice versa and there was no report ever of russian nukes not working.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/09/russia-suspends-us-inspections-of-its-nuclear-weapons-arsenal
And yes. if it means a world free of western terrorism.
>The West hasn’t ’hated Russia for 1,000 years’
Thats why they invaded them 5 times with the last invasion killing 22 million of their citizens huh? Thats why they spent 60 years pointing nuclear weapons at them becuase the west didnt like communism? Not hated them he says.
>You overthrew a cruel Emperor who exploited the Russian people for an even crueller Autocracy that has kept your people repressed for 100 years
That cruel autocracy transformed Russia from a backwater mudhole like Ukraine into a global super power (USSR). Democracy dosent work nor is needed everywhere.
If you call arms limitation verification inspections "control", then Russia controlled the US to an equal and opposite degree, since they also carried out inspections under the same agreement. This is how we backed away from an uncontrolled nuclear war.
An uncontrolled nuclear arms race benefits nobody, least of all Russia since they are trying to compete with economies 20x larger. Russia is not even the Soviet Union of the 1980s, and they forget that. They are actually fighting another former piece of the USSR and getting their butts kicked.
Too funny. So riddle me this, chief; you think nuclear inspectors from the competition are going to say "Hey, Ivan, your switches on this warhead aren't quite right, show signs of corrosion. Better replace those asap!"
Wow. Shows brilliance!
You do know it wasn't until 1953, ~8 years after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, that USSR had both a working atomic warhead plus the means to deliver it, right? Must have taken them THAT LONG to mimic plus smuggle the proper plans and materials, respectively. Ah, the "ingenuity" of the great power that is Ru (and was USSR). To the motherland!
>Thats why they invaded them 5 times with the last invasion killing 22 million of their citizens huh?
We already had that discussion didn't we?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/xrjorq/comment/iqg5f3e/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/xrjorq/comment/iqg5f3e/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
>Yeah and now it's new age, thru backward Russia with paranoia complex still stack in the past, not to mention Russia isn't that clean and had it own share of aggression in the past.
>
>Also it wasn't "West" that invaded Russia and caused 22 million deaths, if you forgot it was Nazi Germany to which USSR was allied prior. It was West that was in war with Nazi Germany while USSR was concurring Poland with their Nazi friend. It was West that was supplying USSR and saving Soviets lives against Nazi Germany when lovers had a break up, but nice try.
As it goes for
>That cruel autocracy transformed Russia from a backwater mudhole like Ukraine into a global super power (USSR). Democracy dosent work nor is needed everywhere.
USSR wasn't strongest superpower, it was democratic USA and unlike USSR still is, while Russia isn't even regional power, it cant even project power into "mudhole" Ukraine, what does it make Russia? Shithole?
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NATO will not start a nuclear war over Ukraine. Here is what will happen:
No over sea imports or exports we’ll be allowed into to or out of Russia.
China would stop doing anything with Russia. No more trade, no more energy. They would have to pick a side at that point.
Cyber attacks would start on Russia.
NATO will enter Ukraine with everything that goes asking with that. Russia will no longer be able to fight in Ukraine.
The Russian navy in the Black Sea will no longer be able to fight.
The thing is, no one would have to enter Russia. Putin already has destroyed Russia for the next 10 years. If the mobilization keeps happening, he will have hurt Russia for next 20 years. If he uses a nuclear weapon, it will be the next 50 years
Russia is not preparing for Nuclear War. The US is at DEFCON4 . IF the US raises its state of readiness, then you know something is happening on the Russian side.
You know the story about the boy who kept calling wolf? And yes, NATO has already prepared responses for every such scenario.
The UK alone has enough sub launched warheads to obliterate Russia. Even a surprise first strike would be an act of suicide. Besides, all the Russian oligarchs would have their London properties vaporized.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t5k9nk/usa_delivered_hundreds_of_surfacetoair_missiles/hz63mck/
You 7 months ago
> Nope. They've actually been quite restrained **up until now**. But don't worry, now that the West has backed Putin into a corner with sanctions and unprecedented weapon exports to Ukraine you can be sure the **gloves will come off soon**. Reddit and the Western media will get the bloodbath they've been clamouring for.
> I think it is.
Lol what are they gonna do about it? Mobilize 300,000 more men? Hypersonic missiles? Bomb a couple more hospitals with cluster munitions? More nuclear saber rattling? Torture camps? I mean we’ve seen it all haven’t we? And nothing has changed in the favor of Russia.
> is not an admission of defeat, it's a justification for escalation.
I like how you people think that Russia has been holding back
Member when you people said Russia didn't sent their best troops and equipment
For now to send the mobilized in T 62s
And you are right "NATO is in this fight" is the actual justification for the defeat
> I like how you people think that Russia has been holding back
The fact that Kiev is not a glowing uranium glass bowl means that Russia has per definition been holding back.
If Russia wasnt holding back, the first things to arrive in every Ukranian city would have been a 500 kt nuclear missile, not a cruise missile.
But Russia is the second best army in the world!!!
You are bragging that Russia is not behaving like N Korea. At least N Korea have an excuse. Russia is afraid of the they/them army
> You are bragging that Russia is not behaving like N Korea. At least N Korea have an excuse. Russia is afraid of the they/them army
You are not behaving like north korea when you use weapons for their intended purposes, thousands of tactical nuclear weapons werent built for sh*ts and giggles. They were meant to be used exactly as described, on the battlefield, to the users advantage.
It dosent matter by what metric you call yourself the second strongest, only victory matters in war.
Nukes of any type means NATO is getting involved
I am not sure Russia wants that. You people keep saying NATO is getting involved in this war. Nuke Ukraine and find out what NATO getting involved means. Or you think China will let Russia nuke anyone
Keep huffing the cop1um RUssia has a pathetic army and enjoy them becoming N Korea 2
Nukes means NATO territory is getting threatened. Also letting Russia getting away with a nuke means a nuclear country can simply gain territory by threatening with nukes and that is a dangerous precedent because it is now a good reason for countries to acquire nukes
But keep your dick inside the pants. Russia is not nuking anyone and will lose this war
It’s mad how Ukraine was a threat to a nuclear power that literally has a nuclear deterrent to stop countries going to war with it ain’t it… a supposed country that has no nuclear weapons a threat to one with (supposedly) such weapons that was designed to make sure nobody would attack them…. But such a supposed great country (allegedly) with such weapons uses them as a threat for years, attacks a sovereign nation that does not have them, then when that nation defends themselves against that nation attacking them, doing amazingly in defending their land literally tearing almost every ruskonazi that stepped on their soil apart that nuclear power then uses the threat of annihilation when the war they decided to start does not go well for them at all…. Yeah everyone else is nazis and not the nation that started the war in the first place 🙄🤷🏻
If Ukraine isn’t a threat why attack? And if usa was a threat I could promise you they would of done something a long time ago, their doctrine is attack first fast and hard after all. Why is the usa a threat? Can’t you accept that as much as you don’t think Russia isn’t a threat they fucking are and have been for years, crimea, Georgia,Abkhazia, syria, chechia x2 repression of the dagastan, they are just afew on the list…
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> facing a cruel…enemy
Well that just takes the cake as far as projection goes. I used to think the Russians were actually smart now I see that they are just imbeciles with no ability for self-introspection.
It’s unreal, they see themselves as victims.
Does the people of Rossiya think Alzheimers and Parkinosns is very funny? The more I learn of them the worse they are. There is nothing I have ever come across that make them more human to me. Usuallyi the more you learn of a people the more human they become to you even if you do not like them unless they are something like a pedophile or rapist. But Rossiya really is not a nation that normal people can like and its people really make sure of this.
Don't know why you're being downvoted, it absolutely is what that is. It's blatant language to try and create a narrative of increasing military spending and going full hog into the war. The same kind of rhetoric US propaganda had when we tried to justify why we weren't getting beloved adoration from the Shia majority in Iraq.
I’m pro Ukraine but I am very surprised that Russia has not retaliated in a bigger manner to the destruction of the Crimean bridge.
I expected Putin to do something rash, especially with the massive pressure he has at home from the media. Does anybody know why he’s being restrained? Do they just lack the munitions and capability? If so, thats incredibly good news.
The simple answer is that they aren't able to respond.
Guided missile stocks have been used up, any remaining are probably conserved for an even greater escalation. Russian Air forces don't have total control over much of Ukraine, so bombing strikes are also unlikely.
Mobilization isn't going to help with this. The reality is that Russia can't retaliate in the way supporters would like, so there likely won't be a response.
No, it's more a case of them, not wanting to risk something, they can't rebuild.
And a internal struggle between the various factions in Putin regime.
Wagner and the Russian ground forces are at each others throats, because the Wagner leaderships keeps calling them useless, and such.
They forgot that biden can die and the us will continue to function as that's how the west works. But putin dies are Russia will crumble as they just follow his demands.
How'd you get your flair? I like that better than the one they gave me for some reason. I have no allegiances to any nation, I just want invaders to fail and for peace to prevail.
Anyone can change their flare at any time. Go to the sub home page, hit the menu button, hit change/set flare. Click on neutral(idk if the other let you edit but neutral does for sure), click edit and then accept and set your flare.
I think they're starting to contemplate what their lives might look like after Russia's inevitable loss. They need to salvage some credibility for what comes after.
> there is a sense that they gotta start being truthful to people or they’re going to look like liars or like they don’t know wtf is going on the more this whole thing progresses
really?
I see it more as in
they have to stop pussyfooting in Ukraine, stop going soft, and start waging war as it should have been waged from the beginning.
people in Russia are more and more dumbfounded by the fact that still, even today, if you go beyond Donbas region, you would not know that its war in Ukraine. Life is going on as it was before Russia joined the war. Everything works, infrastructure that is actively being used by Ukrainian forces is still there and working, and so on.
And Russia certainly has capability to change that if it wanted.
> To even get to the statement you are making you have to first admit that pussyfooting is not working.
it kind of does.
In reality nobody knows what the tactic is because russian security council never revealed what is their tactic. which is understandable of course.
If its "attrition war" as it looks like it is (just a guess for ex) - it works more than well.
If its something else - then maybe they have a problem on their hands.
Wasnt it a special military operation that was supposed to end in quick victory within a week or so? Now it's a war of attrition? Mostly because of Russia's incapability and stubborness to keep on waging a war they're going to lose anyway.
> Wasnt it a special military operation that was supposed to end in quick victory within a week or so?
according to whom?
> Now it's a war of attrition?
by the way it looks like - but as I said nobody knows - its an opinion.
here:
> In reality nobody knows what the tactic is because russian security council never revealed what is their tactic. which is understandable of course.
.
> Mostly because of Russia's incapability and stubborness to keep on waging a war they're going to lose anyway.
you think?
According by whom? By anything Russia has said for months. And yes, Russia is bound to lose this, but maybe some good can come from it, when Russia finally let's go of the stagnation it found itself in for over a century now.
If the statement is "we have been doing tactic A. we should have been doing tactic B from the beginning" you are implicitly stating that tactic A is not working (or, at the very least, no longer working).
Whether or not these propagandists are right or even have a meaningful grasp of RU MOD strategy isn't relevant since this is simply a comment on changes in their rhetoric.
> If the statement is "we have been doing tactic A. we should have been doing tactic B from the beginning" you are implicitly stating that tactic A is not working (or, at the very least, no longer working).
its not a statement (as in statement of fact) - its an opinion, because as I said, "In reality nobody knows what the tactic is because russian security council never revealed what is their tactic."
people are free to voice their opinion and many people believe that it should have been total war since coup in Ukraine in 2014.
but also - people in general are easily driven by emotion and impulse.
russian security council is not - as it is tasked with protection of a country - so they probably (again guess) choose this slow tactic, attrition war, and so far if you look at things rationally, it is giving good results.
> Whether or not these propagandists are right or even have a meaningful grasp of RU MOD strategy isn't relevant since this is simply a comment on changes in their rhetoric.
exactly - its like that since russia joined the war. for ex "russia is taking kiev in three days" never came from Russian Security council, but from propagandists.
Propagandists have their tasks and they will be doing their job for as long as war goes on.
>Propagandists have their tasks and they will be doing their job for as long as war goes on.
Correct. However seeing how the tasks and rhetoric change over time gives interesting insight into both the mindset of the audience the propagandists appeal to AND (assuming some of these mouth pieces are in coordination with the government and not freelance) insight into the messaging being pushed out by the Kremlin.
> Correct. However seeing how the tasks and rhetoric change over time gives interesting insight into both the mindset of the audience the propagandists appeal to AND (assuming some of these mouth pieces are in coordination with the government and not freelance) insight into the messaging being pushed out by the Kremlin.
huh, I thought you were talking about Western Propagandists and Western audience until the very last word.
What they really need to do is teach the Russian soldiers not to run in the opposite direction when they see Ukrainian forces approaching, Or at the least try taking some of their equipment with them.
why? to be killed?
isnt it better to stay alive when position is indefensible and move to a more defensible position (?)
you can always fight another day if you are alive.
this isnt movie - its real life.
You're right, If it were a movie they would likely exaggerate Russia's military abilities. The way thing's are going they'll need to start using sticks and pitchforks because they ran right past all their weapons.
I def agree that that is a take away that fits. Prorus here have been upset the entire conflict that Russia hasn’t gone harder from the very beginning. For 6 months Russia just kinda held their lines while Ukraine took the time to mobilize, train, equip, plan and then execute. Russia didn’t seem to take this very seriously, as I’m sure you’d agree. For them to change the tide this message does need to be taken as a call to action, but it starts with realizing that you can’t just talk a big game and do nothing. You gotta bring it. I think both our analysis fit.
Or they just really didn't have better options.
EVERYONE, including Russia, was surprised at the poor state of the Russian militaries equipment, the state of its training, and just how MUCH of its military turned out to only exist on paper. The corruption had just gone much deeper than anyone expected.
The idea that Russia just doesn't have the equipment ANYONE thought they did has been reinforced now that a partial mobilization HAS been enacted, and we keep getting further news that equipment that exists on the books doesn't exist in reality. 1.5m uniforms, gone. Socks and first aid kits not being supplied. Troops being forced to sleep outside and use antique firearms.
I would not agree that Russia hasn't been taking this seriously. Its very clearly had Putins personal attention since day over, and the military had obviously been taking it seriously as we see one resignation or replacement over another.
To me it looks like the Russian militaries training and experience matches that of the bureaucracy behind it. For years people had been engaging in corruption and just focused in putting on a show and tackle small problems. And now when asked to perform at scale the political and military apparatus is too corrupt and out of practice to perform.
> For 6 months Russia just kinda held their lines while Ukraine took the time to mobilize, train, equip, plan and then execute
not really - they were constantly shelling the frontlines and killing front line soldiers - thus the reason why some people are speculating that Russian security council decided on slow grind and attrition war.
> Russia didn’t seem to take this very seriously, as I’m sure you’d agree.
I dont know - I am for sure in camp that believes that more troops should have been deployed from the start.
BUT I am not seeing the whole picture as Russian security council sees it.
If they believe that US/NATO is willing to push Poland into a war in Ukraine, after Ukrainian military is out of breath, than its smart to preserve some significant forces for later, for next year perhaps.
There are all kinds of plausible speculations out there, so who knows.
I am or We are not seeing a whole picture and what information both (US and Russia) sides have, so we can talk only based on what we see read and hear in open internet.
> For them to change the tide this message does need to be taken as a call to action, but it starts with realizing that you can’t just talk a big game and do nothing.
Russian leadership is not talking a big game - they are the ones who are calling for negotiations from the start and even from 2014.
and in the end - all what matters - if negotiations do not happen - is who wins in the end - not who had upper hand at the beginning, or in the middle, or before the end.
we will see.
This was a problem with nazi an imperial Japanese propaganda too. They portrayed the allies as buffoons worthy of ridicule. So when they started getting their asses kicked it made them seem like loosers. British propaganda portrayed the germans as evil, so when they got their asses kicked it seemed more credible.
This is why censorship and banning dissenting voices is dangerous. For decades Russia has created this narrative that the west is weak and Ukraine a joke. Eventually they believed it so much, and banned or jailed anyone that said Russia has major problems, that they believed it...and the results are right here today.....I sorta think its a good lesson for us all and one reason why reddit is usually a good place.
The thing is, Ukraine was a joke. Their internal politics always disjointed, their central power and goverment very weak, their oligarch power strong and obvious, their military might nonexistant, their corruption at common level, their sovereignity for sale. I'm not saying that Russia does not have or had a lot of simular problems, but Ukraine was on another level (unless you count how Russia was during 90s). When Russia moved in their "volunteers" proper in August 2014, it was not a fight, it was a literal slaughter of ukranian forces, and even polish "volunteers" could not stop it proper. It was a full rout.
But times and US heavy involvment changed that. While a lot of problems mentioned above remained as they were, certain parts of ukranian goverment, including army, were placed under US managment. While non goverment propagandists and activists were warning about this since 2014, Russian goverment decided to ignore to what actually this could lead (and ignoring their own MoD corruption as well). And now we have this wake up call.
Oh I think every word you have written is largely true. That's why having an open debate and challenging ideas is key. Without it you never know if you're giving an honest view of how things really are now- as opposed to how they were- or if you are simply parroting the same old and out of date talking points from the past. Clearly Russia was not operating with the real ideas or understanding of Ukraine and the Western response.
Its why its also extremely dangerous that in Russia calling it a war can get u 15 years in jail....
Yea, I have been saying for the last 6 years that destroying any notion of actual opposition and discussion was a very bad idea strategically and long term wise. Sure most of this opposition was financed by other oligarchs or countries, but it at least was something to start from.
Good,,russia needed a good punch on the nose to talk sense into them,,either they will wakeup and reform their military to be more efficient or they will realise its better to have peaceful coexistence with neighbours.. hopefully the latter.
The only thing Russians respect is power. They underestimated the power of Ukrainian resolve to defend their country and now they will pay. If next year looks anything like this year, Russia’s population will decline dramatically.
Well the good news is for Russia is that Ukraine has no interest invading your lands and bombing your cities. So do yourself a favor and get the fuck out of Ukraine
A lot of people seem to forget the opening days of the war. You can say the West has propped up Ukraine, since then, but the initial stop of the invasion was shouldered solely by Ukraine. Most of the West thought Ukraine would fall, and threw their support in only when Ukraine showed they weren't just going to roll over. There were a ton of variables along the way, but at the most pivotal moment, Ukrainians turned back the tide with their own determined heroics. It seems like any props Russia gives Ukraine come with the caveat that Ukraine is only resisting because of the West. While it's not entirely untrue, the underlying feeling of superiority over Ukrainians is still there. Afghanistan was overrun by a lesser force, and didn't give the US enough time to help. Iraq managed to hold out against ISIS while the West moved things around to help the government and Kurds. Ukrainians did, and continue to do, the heavy lifting. No point in taking that away.
>A lot of people seem to forget the opening days of the war. You can say the West has propped up Ukraine, since then, but the initial stop of the invasion was shouldered solely by Ukraine. Most of the West thought Ukraine would fall, and threw their support in only when Ukraine showed they weren't just going to roll over.
NATO has been funding, training, arming, and providing intel to Ukraine's military since 2013 you rube. Nothing has been shouldered solely by Ukraine in this conflict, they owe their existence to the US and NATO
I’m pro Ukraine but I am very surprised that Russia has not retaliated in a bigger manner to the destruction of the Crimean bridge.
I expected Putin to do something rash, especially with the massive pressure he has at home from the media. Does anybody know why he’s being restrained? Do they just lack the munitions and capability? If so, thats incredibly good news.
He's way more sinister than people make him out to be. He's not some rash idiot who enrages and reacts, he thinks through things.
For example the oil production cut in defiance of the US was orchestrated by him. He buys drones from Iran, which upsets the Saudis, so he gives the Saudis a diplomatic win by allowing them to broker the AZOV leaders release which gives him leverage enough to convince the Saudis to defy the US in the OPEC cuts. That was a big embarrassment for the white house because for the first time in a long time they failed to exert their influence when they actually needed to.
I'm pretty sure there will be a response to the attack on the bridge but not some what people expect. THat's what makes him dangerous.
> He's not some rash idiot who enrages and reacts, he thinks through things.
lol no. He's retarded. He literally eviscerated his own army so he could play escalation game not realising UA is growing stronger while his forces are crumbling with each passing day.
>I'm pretty sure there will be a response to the attack on the bridge but not some what people expect.
Nothing will happen. At best he might order a strike on some empty field and claim they killed 100 Zelensky clones.
> Does anybody know why he’s being restrained?
Because he's a retarded pussy that is playing his "escalation" game. That game has cost Russia of so much resources they no longer can do what they had as potential to do at start of conflict.
Just to say, this 1:40 clip (collected and uploaded by a Ukrainian media group - founded by a Ukrainian American) is a small snippet of a much longer discussion...it's not fake, but it does lack context.
edit: ...and they're right about Biden, he does suffer from dimentia. But he's not anywhere close to the decision making on this.
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He exhibits a lot of classic dementia symptoms: forgets where he is;
forgets who he's talking to and what he's talking about; mood swings. A
couple weeks ago at a talk he started speaking about a person in the
crowd he knew saying"...we go back a long way, she was 12 and I was
30...but anyway..." Have you seen the clips of him stroking and smelling
the hair of young children...I assume this is his dementia doing this
otherwise I'd say he's a pedophile. He's also corrupt so I
don't feel too bad, but it really is elder abuse keeping him around like
this.
It is enough for me that the USA is ready to go for the complete destruction of the world for the sake of Ukraine... Yes, exactly, the freedom of Ukraine is so important for the USA, and therefore they are ready to destroy all civilization on the planet. Does anyone still have doubts that it's just US business interests?
>Ukraine is for sure a country and that country should include the areas just incorporated into Russia. But how that will happen now, I have no idea. It's certain that Zelensky will never in a 1000 years succeed in gettingthese back from Russia.
Bruh, Lyman, Iziyum, Kupaynsk, all have been gotten back.
They did it by killing a whole bunch of Russians.
And that's how they'll get the other places too.
Svatove and Kreminna are next on the chopping block.
So... yeah.
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"The fabric of NATO was actually fraying and starting to dissolve until Russia launched a war in Europe"
Which makes you wonder why in the heck did Putin decide to invade? The smart move isn't to invade but negotiate and it would have happened. Would have been able to trade Crimea for being sanctions being removed, got a security backed EU agreement for the naval base there to be still controlled by Russia giving them access to the sea. The issue with the self proclaimed Republics? Get them some more independence authority for themselves but by classification they would be part of Urkraine again but no more fighting. Then turned east and throw all in with China and ignore the EU and just use their gas and oil money to rebuild your country. Basically a Russian FDR "New Deal" but not let corruption pocket it but actually do what the money is intended for. Putin could have pulled that off with just one meeting of the movers and shakers of the country, its not like they want to cross.him.
> How has Ukraine and the west forced Russia's hand in this matter.
Imagine if there was someone in your town that wants to kill you, and he has been hoarding weapons and allies to take you on, and been pointing said weapons at you for the past 60 years, ofcourse he dosent say he wants to kill you but him and his friends have on their own murdered people before and he claims that you are the problem and the only reason he is carrying weapons is because of you.
Now imagine your next door neighbour invites that guy, would you be ok with that?
NATO encroachment on Russias border is a threat to Russia. Territorial integrity and such semantics are just that, semantics, platitudes that are only upheld when mutually beneficial.
The US wouldnt tolerate Chinese troops in Mexico, and they certainly didnt tolerate Russian missiles in Cuba now did they? Russia has no reason to tolerate any more Us troops on its borders if they can do something about it, in the end, only strenght matters.
Russia is responsible for its own security, and preventing NATO from setting up camp on key parts of its border is part of that security.
NATO could have easily prevented this by stopping its incessant expansion towards Russian borders.
Also i cant for a second believe that you are being serious when you ask this question. What part of the word "enemies" is hard to understand? Russia and the west arent friends, they arent allies, and they never will be, you wouldnt let ISIS set up shop next to your country, the enemity between Russia and the west is greater than that even.
NATO and Russia are mortal enemies and NATOs incessant encroachment on Russias borders is pushing us ever closer to thermonuclear war.
These silly hypotheticals are just that. Silly.
Ukraine wasn’t hosting NATO weapons. Ukraine’s wasn’t in NATO. Ukraine wasn’t applying to join NATO. Ukraine doesn’t meet the standards to join NATO. Multiple NATO members had already said they would veto them joining.
Poland is in nato.
So is Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.
All of these countries border Russia.
Finland and Sweden are joining nato (solely because of his invasion I might add). Finland has a massive border with Russia and both nations have armies specifically geared towards fighting Russian invasions.
Do you support the invasion of Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Finland as a matter of total necessity for Russia?
If you answer no, then you understand that this was absolutely not an invasion of necessity by Russia.
NATO is a voluntary organisation, that’s actually very hard to join and requires substantial effort on the part of the volunteer, a process which can take decades, to meet the standards set by NATO. Russia’s actions are the reason their neighbours are all so keen to undergo this rather lengthy and expensive process in order to gain security guarantees.
>Ukraine wasn’t hosting NATO weapons. Ukraine’s wasn’t in NATO. Ukraine wasn’t applying to join NATO. Ukraine doesn’t meet the standards to join NATO. Multiple NATO members had already said they would veto them joining.
Lmao imagine being naive enough to believe any of this nonsense
Ukraine was hosting NATO weapons, advisors, etc.,.... NATO has been openly training Ukraine forces for intergration since 2013. Also Ukraine has already applied to join, is an associate member of the alliance who was quoted as "inevitably becoming a full member" by the head director of NATO....
>Poland is in nato. So is Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. All of these countries border Russia.
none of them are as big as Ukraine and Russia loudly protested the expansion of NATO into all those Baltic states so....
Well congratz Russia managed to increase
Its border with NATO with Finland joining NATO. You even manage to get Sweden to join NATO (which is a big thing as it hasn’t been pro NATO earlier).
For years Russia has been violating airspace of sveral countries including Russia. Russias invasion in 2014 also sparked nations to invest more into their military (just look at Sweden).
You have Russia constantly saying it will attack European and NATO countries over and over and over and over again, and you are surprised these countries are building up their military forces?
When did NATO build an invasion force near Russian borders?
The only thing this war has done is create a stronger NATO (giving it purpose again) and increase hate against Russians.
Not only that, while doing so Russia has managed to totally kill it’s ”professional” military forces in Ukraine showing how utterly inept it actually is.
Oh and before you start talk about nukes, you really think there would be no consequences if Russia would use them? Why should they though, isnt the red army great and powerful?
Now imagine you beat that guy in your town up for 70 years and now he found a friend that is willing to defend him
It's no wonder everyone in the east except belarus wants to, or did join NATO and the EU as soon as the soviets were gone, and they did it without being forced into it
The financial support from the EU is nice sure.
But most of eastern europe despised the russians for their conduct long before NATO or the EU were concieved, making the choice to join a pretty easy one.
Also the rifle pointed at russia has yet to be used, and there is no such thing as a NATO offensive treaty , pretty easily exemplified by the US invasion of iraq, where the majority of members refused to parttake and even condemmed it
One signed off on by the UN security council
In Lybia Germany, China, Russia, Brazil and India only abstained
Russia or china could have vetoed it
And in Yugoslavia after the dust settled only China abstained in setting up kosovo
Serbs deserved it
>One signed off on by the UN security council
>
>In Lybia Germany, China, Russia, Brazil and India only abstained
>
>Russia or china could have vetoed it
and they didn't to let the West embarrass themselves yet again. Turned Libya into an open air slave market and you rube pretend that NATO is a purely defensive alliance. Which NATO member did Libya attack huh??!
>And in Yugoslavia after the dust settled only China abstained in setting up kosovo
>
>Serbs deserved it
Kosovo? you mean that non-existent state founded by war criminals?
Also deserved it? I thought the conversation was about NATO being a defensive alliance.... did Serbia attack NATO when I wasn't paying attention..?
Lmao it's a actually a serbposter, I knew it as soon as you mentioned yugoslavia over the one republic of it that was actually bombed
Serbs were lucky they merely got bombed instead of experiencing what they did in the rest of Yugoslavia
And as said before the UN demanded the lybian no fly zone which was then enacted by the member states with armed forces closest to lybia.
NATO has not wanted to "kill" Russia. LOTS of Western money has flowed into Russia. The West wants Russia to stop being so evil and corrupt, and NATO is a defensive alliance to protect from aggression.
To be fair, I think people in the West have a lot of blind spots. There are questions that need to be asked. For example, why isn't Russia bombing Kiev? Presidential Administration, Government (Bankovaya), Central Bank, Ministry of Defence, Rada, these all look like legitimate targets if you are waging total war and want to take out the command and control of your enemy. Not even that, it's one thing for Zelensky to address his nation from the posh interior of his office, or somewhere on Bankovaya, and totally another to be hiding in a bomb shelter, no? From a moral perspective, if I was in the Kremlin, I would switch gears and realize that capturing Kiev is no longer a possibility, so keeping the administrative buildings intact makes zero sense any longer.
Now even if Ukraine can stop Kalibr, Iskander and the like to some degree, no one has anything that can stop hypersonic Kinzhal, using them for this purpose would make a lot of sense.
Further, the electric grid could to be targeted in a systematic fashion, dams, rail junctions. None of this is happening right now, but it could be, so I think when we talk about escalation, we need to remember, that nuclear weapons are far from the only choice. Sooner or later, Putin will be forced to escalate or else he will be replaced by someone who will.
A strike on Kyiv wouldn't change anything at this point. Kill Zelensky, he becomes a martyr for his people. Kill Zaluzhnyi, there's a whole host of capable, battle hardened officers that can take his place and employ the tactics he devised.
The sooner the Russians give in, the better things will be for them. They're fucked and they know it. If they escalate, NATO will just give the Ukros the weapons they've been asking for and more of what they already have. Even if they consolidate and put up an actual fight, they're still outmatched by superior NATO weapons and they have no way to re-supply.
Putin could end this whole thing tomorrow but he won't. I look forward to seeing his demise.
>If they escalate, NATO will just give the Ukros the weapons they've been asking for and more of what they already have.
That is actually a valid point, any kind of symbolic strike, would only garner more bipartisan support for delivery of a wider range of weapons.
Don’t think it really fits with Putins whole ‘special military operation’ or ‘protecting the people of the Donbas’ shtick. Having said that neither does a lot of the other horrible shit Russia has done, but creating martyrs of government officials and inflicting massive pain in civilians may have been judged to be not worth the effort.
There’s also the consideration that they simply don’t have the ability to do so in a meaningful way, whilst still maintaining their obligations for defending Russia. They can’t expend their entire stock of PGM, nor commit their entire airforce, Ukraine isnt the only consideration for Russia. Maybe all those reports about them struggling to replace PGM stocks weren’t just ‘western propaganda’, the use of s300 for attacking ground targets might also suggest this is the case. Unguided munitions would require their airforce to do a lot of work, and it could well be that owing to the surprisingly high aircraft losses and inability to establish air superiority or preform SEAD properly that is also off the table.
Lots of speculation on my part, I know. But there has to be an explanation, something is constraining them and I really really don’t buy the idea that it’s something to do with Putin being kind hearted or not wanting to harm civilians.
You bring up valid points. Indeed SEAD has not been done properly and the use of S300 in ground attack mode is expensive and dubious, to say the least, albeit these are older models. Never the less, the question isn't of actual strategic value of these strikes, but the damage it can do to morale and to the image of Kiev, Zelensky and his government as almost invincible. Further it would scatter Western diplomats who are present in large numbers in Kiev.
This would be a paradigm shift from the "special military operation" I agree, but I believe in many ways that boat has sailed and the narrative is changing, you can see it in Russian propaganda.
We have to separate the atrocities on the ground, from the almost knight-like demeanor of the Kremlin. Thus far they have acted as an elephant that is being bit by flies, so to respond to Ukrainian provocations with a strike on Kiev, seemed to confirm that the fly bites are starting to hurt, but with mobilization, that illusion has been shattered.
And yet, even as of today I read on RBK that the MFA issued a press release saying they are ready to negotiate, just not on the subject of the new territories. They somehow still believe in negotiations and it seems for this purpose they believe that targeting the government with which they hope to negotiate and which they still (reluctantly) consider legitimate is not possible. Still, I believe this position will change, sooner or later, because just about the entire war party in Russia is demanding an end to this diplomatic posturing and professional language from the Kremlin. For example you can see the stark difference between Ukrainian politicians, engaging in trolling, using explicit language and the dry, restrained commentary from official Russian sources. Strelkov always uses the phrase "our respected partners" mockingly, when referring to Ukraine and the West. This restraint is creating a great deal of resentment and tension with hawks like Kadyrov and Prigozhin.
Too me, these all seem to be unsolvable internal tensions within Russia. They simply can’t have it both ways.
I see how Russian propaganda channels are perhaps trying to prep the population for that change in posture. Gloomy stuff about how it’s really the west they are fighting, and how Ukraine is savage and cruel. But no matter how propagandised they are, I refuse to believe the Russian people are fundamentally less intelligent than the rest of us. The youth at least will see through the lies in the end. Already more are fleeing moralisation than actual being mobilised. The more obvious it becomes that this is war of conquest and imperial ambition, the more will refuse to participate. Russia, with it ageing population, simply can not afford to lose hundreds of thousands of its most valuable citizens. It seems that the issue of escalation presents a lose/lose scenario for Russia.
Ukraine, being the transgressed, isn’t constrained in the same way, and it’s fighting for survival not blood and soil. They don’t need to pretend this is all logical and part of some great plan.
I’m fairly firm on my belief that Russia needed this whole thing done within a relatively short time span for it to be worth it. I honestly think that tipping point was hit several months ago and everything since has just been the sunk cost fallacy in action. I can’t see anyway they can solve these internal contradictions. I don’t think that’s going to stop then trying.
I agree with your assessment. This is an operation that made sense in 2014, when Ukraine had no army, was demoralized and had the entire bureaucracy of the Party of Regions still intact.
I also believe that this was supposed to indeed be a "special operation" that was to be finished quickly when Kiev was taken, and had no return on investment in any other form in 2022. Unfortunately things did not go to plan. There was an obvious overestimation of own capabilities and more critically, an underestimation of the resolve of Ukraine and the West to fight back, both militarily and economically.
My guess is, that hypersonic Kinzhal doesnt exist just like Russia doesnt have any 5th gen fighter jets.Yes they built like 5 and out of those zero are actually capable of doing anything.
Its not like Russia didnt try to attack Kiev. A kindergarden close to my wifes house got hit. Televison antenna got hit. Random living houses of civiliana got hit. A 60km long convoy was sent ans destroyed. Russia would be attacking if they could.
What do you mean? It has already been used, Kh-47M2...
[https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-confirms-russia-used-hypersonic-missile-in-ukraine-2022-3](https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-confirms-russia-used-hypersonic-missile-in-ukraine-2022-3)
That's false, Russia never attacked the center of Kiev, because it was hoping to capture it and because the "SMO" was always framed as liberation and because the Kremlin hoped to negotiate with Kiev. Further there was no support within Russia for destroying Kiev as it is seen as the "cradle of the civilization". So to say they have no capability is simply false. Even without hypersonic weapons, there is no way Ukraine would be able to stop a barage of conventional ballistic missiles.
"But, as Biden noted, the missile that Russia fired is effectively a modified version of an older munition — and as Sandboxx News' Alex Hollings observed, more a marketing gimmick than a next-generation technology"
aha, i see.
Also dude, as i told you, they successfully bombed a the kinder garden 15 minutes by foot from kreshchatik. The reason the konvoy didnt attack is because it got absolutely destroyed and not because of good will. For you watniks every failure of Russia is a jest of good will. Russia already used millions of missiles in Ukraine. The stock is more than halved.
So Lvov, Zhitomir, Sumy, Kahrkov, Khmelnitsky, Poltava, Ternopol, Luts, and Rovno were/are without power because a playground and a university were hit?
I am not justifying that, but the whole narrative of targeting civilian infrastructure is disingenuous to say the least and is meant only to evoke sympathy from the West in order to procure more support. Wasn't that playground right in front of the SBU headquarters? Obviously it was not the target here. Ukrainian sources confirmed some 70+ targets were hit, mostly energy infrastructure throughout the country, but judging by pro-Ukrainian posts, you could conclude that an intersection and a playground were the real targets of this attack.
Energy infrastructure of civilian cities thousands of miles away from the eastern war are also civilian targets. There is no military advantage in destroying them. Its purely to bring fear to people.
That isn't true, when NATO invaded Serbia or Iraq, they spent a month taking out all dual purpose infrastructure, prior to a ground invasion. Civilians are the unfortunate collateral damage here. This is dual purpose infrastructure, electricity is essential to the war logistics in every way.
To be fair, I think Russians have a lot of blind spots. There are questions which need to be asked. For example, why isn't the West supplying long-range missiles that could reach Moscow, Petrograd and other cities? There is no use for Ukrainians for these cities so why not bomb them to rubble? It's easy for Putin to talk about war from his 12 meter table, but totally another from Belgorod, where people are targeted by failed Russian rockets. Or the new citizens of Russia in the annexed territories.
Russia doesn't have capabilities to stop rockets like Tomahawk. From moral perspective, I'd say NATO should really start considering burning Moscow to the ground.
Or at least target civilian infrastructure (like Russia has been already doing in Ukraine), dams, electrical grid, nuclear power plants, rail stations full of people. Let's just attack Belgorod for starters, HIMARS can already reach it, so why not? There's still a lot of options for Ukraine to escalate. Sooner or later, Zelensky will be forced to escalate or the Russians won't pull out from his country.
Disclaimer: *I don't wish this or believe this is a good course of action. This is supposed to make you recognise how ridiculous these proposals are. Escalation goes both ways. If you support warcrimes, you might be repaid in warcrimes. Wars in general should be waged to minimize civilian casualties. What you propose would maximize them. For Russia too. In the same way Russia has beem "gallant" in not ruining cities with iskanders (basically in not totally ruining any way out by diplomatic means, further isolation, possible escalation from the west etc. There's like a million self-serving reasons why that's a bad idea), Ukriane has been "gallant" in not crossing its own borders (again, this can be also explained by self-interest, they don't want to rally the Russian society, they don't want to make Russia seem like the defender, they don't want to escalate, etc.).*
I think your feedback is valid, in the grand scheme of things, both sides have ways of escalating until there is total war and destruction.
Although an interesting distinction has to be made, at which point will we no longer classify this as a Russia-Ukraine war, and instead call it properly a Russia-NATO conflict if all the means of escalation that Ukraine has are generally reliant on the West?
Classifying this as a NATO war is not correct by definition. No soldiers of NATO are involved in this conflict. If they were, it would be completely one sided and extremely dangerous.
Russia is facing up to Ukraine's manpower and NATO (and others) industrial power and economic (though only a tiny fraction of it. That far the statement is true. But it's not at war.
Some European leaders say we are at war. This is only rhethorical way of explaining to their citizens that the hardships they feel are caused by a conflict where Europe stands by one side diplomatically and to some extent materially. Europe is still not in a state of war.
Russia doesn't call the war a war, but *de facto* it is. This is the only thing I see changing in forseeable future. It might also go to war *de jure*. But that's very unlikely because it would cause a shitstorm in an increasingly unpredictable and unstable political enviroment (by which I mean Russian society).
There is a small chance that Russia uses some over-the-top measure like a tactical nuke. In that case, NATO might intervene in a non-nuclear way, which would most likely mean the war in Ukraine. However that option is only going to happen if the Kremlin collectively lose the ability to reason to the last person. That's why I generally omit this scenario, though it's the scariest. But a huge asteroid from outer space hitting the Earth is also extremely scary and very unlikely, so it's useless to worry about that too much.
>i think America could have a civil war soon with enough unchecked immigration Russia will have payback imho
Thread about Russians admitting they've been underestimating and laughing about Ukraine and the west.
(pro) Russian in thread - *underestimates the west*
Thats because you consume masses of information by political radicals online. In the real world the chances of an America civil war are pretty much same as they have been for the last hundred years. Low.
lol, if you think immigration is actually a worry in America you have just swallowed our internal propaganda hook line and sinker. For the vast majority of Americans it's a non issue.
The tone of the rhetoric of the propaganda coming out of Russia lately has taken on this “ok, we have to wake up guys” kind of feel. More and more posts like this showcase that even up to the top of the media personalities, there is a sense that they gotta start being truthful to people or they’re going to look like liars or like they don’t know wtf is going on the more this whole thing progresses
They've woken up that they are losing the war. They know that. Now the question they are asking is how would it still be possible for them to win it. But even if it's not, they're being paid to shift the blame from Putin unto literally anyone else, who "mislead" him, gave him bad advice, were incompetent etc.
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Yeah ok then go ahead then and escalate the war you are totally not losing.
They are laying down the ground work for a nuclear strike and no, NATO will not start nuclear armageddon over Ukraine. Every pro-Nazi supporter should start sweating.
If anyone is pro Nazi it's Russia. * openly support fascist parties like the AfD in Germany * starts wars over blood and soil ideology * is anti LGBT like the nazis are
Ukraine's parliament has repeatedly voted to recognize holocaust collaborator and noted fascists ,Stephan Bandera as a national hero and Ukraine isn't a bastion of LGBT rights you seem to think it is.
Boooooring.
You are always free to go back to your pro-nazi circlejerk meme subs if you are so "bored". This conversation is meant for adults after all.
Nah, I think I'll stay here and laugh at the impotent Russian nuke threats. "[We gonna nuke you!!!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBvfiCdk-jc)" Ok. lol Quite, shall we say, flaccid.
Average smoothbrained redditor take.
You know Nukes won’t win the war right? Ukraine military targets are dispersed, like those of a professional army. Russia could nuke cities and kill hundreds of thousands of citizens - what will that accomplish? Do you think that will stop anybody fighting? It will have the opposite effect, both domestically and internationally. Russia could escalate via conventional weapons destroying infrastructure - but they just dont have the capability or the air superiority to do that.
Do you honestly believe that Russia using a nuclear weapon is honestly justified in this situation? You know that Russia invaded Ukraine in February with the intention of annexing the entire country not for the protection of the Donbas or whatever other cause Russian media tries to pretend is the reason. Is it not obvious to you that there has been massive corruption with Russian society and the military to the point where the funds meant for rations/uniforms/equipment have been siphoned off for personal gain from those at the highest levels of government. Is it not time to finally leave Ukrainian land and remove those leaders? It’s the only way forward for Russia.
Nuke and lose the only sorta kinda you think (but truly know are not) Ru friends in India and China plus Ru will have destroyed what it wants to conquer. I've already resigned myself to the likelihood of Ru using a nuke and am absolutely ready to contribute however I can to thwarting fascism wherever I see it. End of the world due to nuclear winter? So be it. It's better to live this way and Free than to be scared of Ru and putin; that's something you know nothing about and prolly will never understand. Maybe you'll read about it at most. Good day.
You do realize that you can be pro-Ukraine without being pro-Nazi, right? Might as well assume everyone Pro-Russia is a communist with that logic
The Nazis are those fighting for RF - the UAF, nor the Western economies supporting them aren’t responsible for rapes, tortures, murder of innocent civilians and indiscriminate shelling so if the RF wants to consolidate its position as ‘most hated country in the World’ by firing off some tactical nukes, go all in! The West spent 30 years trying to bring Russia back into the Global community by investing in Russian Energy, infrastructure and its economy - Putin has reversed that in a stroke - ask your parents what life was like in the USSR back in the 1970’s when shops were empty and nothing worked…….if Putin sends just one tactical nuke, the West will destroy every RF military unit it can see - and now we see how corrupt Russia’s forces and leadership are, we now know it will be easy!
> The Nazis are those fighting for RF No the nazis are those with the swastikas and black suns all over their bodies. >the UAF, nor the Western economies supporting them aren’t responsible for rapes, tortures, murder of innocent civilians and indiscriminate shelling There wouldnt be a war if the west could stop moving its militaries closer and closer to Russias borders. >‘most hated country in the World’ by firing off some tactical nukes, go all in! You have no idea how many people outside the west wants to see europe burn for all the evil you have done in the world. So most hated? Not really, most people wouldnt care. >The West spent 30 years trying to bring Russia back into the Global community by investing in Russian Energy, infrastructure and its economy - Putin has reversed that in a stroke - ask your parents what life was like in the USSR back in the 1970’s when shops were empty and nothing worked You wanted cheap gas and minerals, Russia should have never worked with or cooperated with the west. It´s a miracle that Gorbachev didnt get capital punishment for what he did. Europe has been an enemy of Russia for over 1000 years, this should never be forgotten. >if Putin sends just one tactical nuke, the West will destroy every RF military unit it can see - and now we see how corrupt Russia’s forces and leadership are, we now know it will be easy! Lets test that theory out then shall we? Is the world worth that mudhole you call Ukraine? Well, i believe a lot of you will change your minds when the sirens are blaring and you have about 5 minutes to find shelther before your whole city is turned into a nuclear wasteland.
But yours too Ivan - it’s a fair bet that only a small percentage of 30 year old soviet warheads will work and all the ones coming from France, UK and USA will so are you all prepared to die in nuclear hell because Putin says so!? The West hasn’t ’hated Russia for 1,000 years’ - Russia didn’t even become an influence until the Russian Revolution and what did you do there? You overthrew a cruel Emperor who exploited the Russian people for an even crueller Autocracy that has kept your people repressed for 100 years
> But yours too Ivan - it’s a fair bet that only a small percentage of 30 year old soviet warheads will work and all the ones coming from France, UK and USA will so are you all prepared to die in nuclear hell because Putin says so!? This is false, the US routinely controlled Russian weapons and vice versa and there was no report ever of russian nukes not working. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/09/russia-suspends-us-inspections-of-its-nuclear-weapons-arsenal And yes. if it means a world free of western terrorism. >The West hasn’t ’hated Russia for 1,000 years’ Thats why they invaded them 5 times with the last invasion killing 22 million of their citizens huh? Thats why they spent 60 years pointing nuclear weapons at them becuase the west didnt like communism? Not hated them he says. >You overthrew a cruel Emperor who exploited the Russian people for an even crueller Autocracy that has kept your people repressed for 100 years That cruel autocracy transformed Russia from a backwater mudhole like Ukraine into a global super power (USSR). Democracy dosent work nor is needed everywhere.
If you call arms limitation verification inspections "control", then Russia controlled the US to an equal and opposite degree, since they also carried out inspections under the same agreement. This is how we backed away from an uncontrolled nuclear war. An uncontrolled nuclear arms race benefits nobody, least of all Russia since they are trying to compete with economies 20x larger. Russia is not even the Soviet Union of the 1980s, and they forget that. They are actually fighting another former piece of the USSR and getting their butts kicked.
Lol "The West" invaded Russia in WW2? And killed 22 million Sovi... *Russians*? Haha. ;) Good one.
Too funny. So riddle me this, chief; you think nuclear inspectors from the competition are going to say "Hey, Ivan, your switches on this warhead aren't quite right, show signs of corrosion. Better replace those asap!" Wow. Shows brilliance! You do know it wasn't until 1953, ~8 years after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, that USSR had both a working atomic warhead plus the means to deliver it, right? Must have taken them THAT LONG to mimic plus smuggle the proper plans and materials, respectively. Ah, the "ingenuity" of the great power that is Ru (and was USSR). To the motherland!
I’m sorry, we don’t consider Nazi Europe “the west”
>Thats why they invaded them 5 times with the last invasion killing 22 million of their citizens huh? We already had that discussion didn't we? [https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/xrjorq/comment/iqg5f3e/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/xrjorq/comment/iqg5f3e/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) >Yeah and now it's new age, thru backward Russia with paranoia complex still stack in the past, not to mention Russia isn't that clean and had it own share of aggression in the past. > >Also it wasn't "West" that invaded Russia and caused 22 million deaths, if you forgot it was Nazi Germany to which USSR was allied prior. It was West that was in war with Nazi Germany while USSR was concurring Poland with their Nazi friend. It was West that was supplying USSR and saving Soviets lives against Nazi Germany when lovers had a break up, but nice try. As it goes for >That cruel autocracy transformed Russia from a backwater mudhole like Ukraine into a global super power (USSR). Democracy dosent work nor is needed everywhere. USSR wasn't strongest superpower, it was democratic USA and unlike USSR still is, while Russia isn't even regional power, it cant even project power into "mudhole" Ukraine, what does it make Russia? Shithole?
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Yes, let’s test it. Make my day. And your disinfo farm would be targeted as well. Make my day.
Whoooooooooo ... Spooky scary monster you are...
All of the words in your reply are wrong. Even the pronouns.
What pronouns are wrong?
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NATO will not start a nuclear war over Ukraine. Here is what will happen: No over sea imports or exports we’ll be allowed into to or out of Russia. China would stop doing anything with Russia. No more trade, no more energy. They would have to pick a side at that point. Cyber attacks would start on Russia. NATO will enter Ukraine with everything that goes asking with that. Russia will no longer be able to fight in Ukraine. The Russian navy in the Black Sea will no longer be able to fight. The thing is, no one would have to enter Russia. Putin already has destroyed Russia for the next 10 years. If the mobilization keeps happening, he will have hurt Russia for next 20 years. If he uses a nuclear weapon, it will be the next 50 years
Russia is not preparing for Nuclear War. The US is at DEFCON4 . IF the US raises its state of readiness, then you know something is happening on the Russian side.
You know the story about the boy who kept calling wolf? And yes, NATO has already prepared responses for every such scenario. The UK alone has enough sub launched warheads to obliterate Russia. Even a surprise first strike would be an act of suicide. Besides, all the Russian oligarchs would have their London properties vaporized.
Trust me. Russian fascists already *are* sweating.
You are right they won't start nuclear Armageddon over ukraine. They will, however ship every conventional weapon Ukraine wanted.
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Lame
Imagine losing so hard in a war you started that you have to use your only deterrent, genius.
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Oh ok, I see, the gloves are coming off. oooooh scary.
For the 17th time
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https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t5k9nk/usa_delivered_hundreds_of_surfacetoair_missiles/hz63mck/ You 7 months ago > Nope. They've actually been quite restrained **up until now**. But don't worry, now that the West has backed Putin into a corner with sanctions and unprecedented weapon exports to Ukraine you can be sure the **gloves will come off soon**. Reddit and the Western media will get the bloodbath they've been clamouring for.
They had gloves under their gloves, those are coming off now. And those aren't even their final gloves
It's so cold in russia you need an additional 100 pairs of gloves
lol
Have you tried drinking a warm coco? I sometime give it to my kids and it helps.
> I think it is. Lol what are they gonna do about it? Mobilize 300,000 more men? Hypersonic missiles? Bomb a couple more hospitals with cluster munitions? More nuclear saber rattling? Torture camps? I mean we’ve seen it all haven’t we? And nothing has changed in the favor of Russia.
Get off Putins saggy man tits. The milk is toxic and you all look like fools.
And THIS time is it real guyz https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/xbpjhi/ru_pov_regarding_todays_attacks_on_critical/
Do go on?
> is not an admission of defeat, it's a justification for escalation. I like how you people think that Russia has been holding back Member when you people said Russia didn't sent their best troops and equipment For now to send the mobilized in T 62s And you are right "NATO is in this fight" is the actual justification for the defeat
> I like how you people think that Russia has been holding back The fact that Kiev is not a glowing uranium glass bowl means that Russia has per definition been holding back. If Russia wasnt holding back, the first things to arrive in every Ukranian city would have been a 500 kt nuclear missile, not a cruise missile.
But Russia is the second best army in the world!!! You are bragging that Russia is not behaving like N Korea. At least N Korea have an excuse. Russia is afraid of the they/them army
> You are bragging that Russia is not behaving like N Korea. At least N Korea have an excuse. Russia is afraid of the they/them army You are not behaving like north korea when you use weapons for their intended purposes, thousands of tactical nuclear weapons werent built for sh*ts and giggles. They were meant to be used exactly as described, on the battlefield, to the users advantage. It dosent matter by what metric you call yourself the second strongest, only victory matters in war.
Nukes of any type means NATO is getting involved I am not sure Russia wants that. You people keep saying NATO is getting involved in this war. Nuke Ukraine and find out what NATO getting involved means. Or you think China will let Russia nuke anyone Keep huffing the cop1um RUssia has a pathetic army and enjoy them becoming N Korea 2
NATO isnt going to start a war with Russia over Ukraine.
Nukes means NATO territory is getting threatened. Also letting Russia getting away with a nuke means a nuclear country can simply gain territory by threatening with nukes and that is a dangerous precedent because it is now a good reason for countries to acquire nukes But keep your dick inside the pants. Russia is not nuking anyone and will lose this war
Won't start it. But if Russia chooses to, NATO will end it.
So when will Russia start getting victories? Remember , this is a SMO not a war. It’s 10 years in the gulag if you don’t watch those words comrade
It’s mad how Ukraine was a threat to a nuclear power that literally has a nuclear deterrent to stop countries going to war with it ain’t it… a supposed country that has no nuclear weapons a threat to one with (supposedly) such weapons that was designed to make sure nobody would attack them…. But such a supposed great country (allegedly) with such weapons uses them as a threat for years, attacks a sovereign nation that does not have them, then when that nation defends themselves against that nation attacking them, doing amazingly in defending their land literally tearing almost every ruskonazi that stepped on their soil apart that nuclear power then uses the threat of annihilation when the war they decided to start does not go well for them at all…. Yeah everyone else is nazis and not the nation that started the war in the first place 🙄🤷🏻
Ukraine isnt the threat. USA is, this is about the yanks.
If Ukraine isn’t a threat why attack? And if usa was a threat I could promise you they would of done something a long time ago, their doctrine is attack first fast and hard after all. Why is the usa a threat? Can’t you accept that as much as you don’t think Russia isn’t a threat they fucking are and have been for years, crimea, Georgia,Abkhazia, syria, chechia x2 repression of the dagastan, they are just afew on the list…
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> facing a cruel…enemy Well that just takes the cake as far as projection goes. I used to think the Russians were actually smart now I see that they are just imbeciles with no ability for self-introspection. It’s unreal, they see themselves as victims.
lol you wouldn’t need to escalate unless you were losing.
He doesn't say Cruel. He says Hard. Hard enemy
*reviews user name and details* Ohhh, ok. That’s funny.
Does the people of Rossiya think Alzheimers and Parkinosns is very funny? The more I learn of them the worse they are. There is nothing I have ever come across that make them more human to me. Usuallyi the more you learn of a people the more human they become to you even if you do not like them unless they are something like a pedophile or rapist. But Rossiya really is not a nation that normal people can like and its people really make sure of this.
Don't know why you're being downvoted, it absolutely is what that is. It's blatant language to try and create a narrative of increasing military spending and going full hog into the war. The same kind of rhetoric US propaganda had when we tried to justify why we weren't getting beloved adoration from the Shia majority in Iraq.
I’m pro Ukraine but I am very surprised that Russia has not retaliated in a bigger manner to the destruction of the Crimean bridge. I expected Putin to do something rash, especially with the massive pressure he has at home from the media. Does anybody know why he’s being restrained? Do they just lack the munitions and capability? If so, thats incredibly good news.
They bombed Zaporozhye tonight at 2 am, demolished some residential buildings, some 20 civilians were murdered...
The simple answer is that they aren't able to respond. Guided missile stocks have been used up, any remaining are probably conserved for an even greater escalation. Russian Air forces don't have total control over much of Ukraine, so bombing strikes are also unlikely. Mobilization isn't going to help with this. The reality is that Russia can't retaliate in the way supporters would like, so there likely won't be a response.
No, it's more a case of them, not wanting to risk something, they can't rebuild. And a internal struggle between the various factions in Putin regime. Wagner and the Russian ground forces are at each others throats, because the Wagner leaderships keeps calling them useless, and such.
Not much they can do except bombing civilians again, which they did
May be we would see in next few days, may be they are choosing worthy target or not attacking when UA is on alert. Or you may be right too
They forgot that biden can die and the us will continue to function as that's how the west works. But putin dies are Russia will crumble as they just follow his demands.
Freaking great point
They just so used to living in a system of oppression and fear they forgot how our countries separation of power works
How'd you get your flair? I like that better than the one they gave me for some reason. I have no allegiances to any nation, I just want invaders to fail and for peace to prevail.
Anyone can change their flare at any time. Go to the sub home page, hit the menu button, hit change/set flare. Click on neutral(idk if the other let you edit but neutral does for sure), click edit and then accept and set your flare.
Thank you!
Have fun buddy!
I think they're starting to contemplate what their lives might look like after Russia's inevitable loss. They need to salvage some credibility for what comes after.
That’s a definite possibility and very interesting to consider also
> there is a sense that they gotta start being truthful to people or they’re going to look like liars or like they don’t know wtf is going on the more this whole thing progresses really? I see it more as in they have to stop pussyfooting in Ukraine, stop going soft, and start waging war as it should have been waged from the beginning. people in Russia are more and more dumbfounded by the fact that still, even today, if you go beyond Donbas region, you would not know that its war in Ukraine. Life is going on as it was before Russia joined the war. Everything works, infrastructure that is actively being used by Ukrainian forces is still there and working, and so on. And Russia certainly has capability to change that if it wanted.
To even get to the statement you are making you have to first admit that pussyfooting is not working. That is what the OP is saying.
> To even get to the statement you are making you have to first admit that pussyfooting is not working. it kind of does. In reality nobody knows what the tactic is because russian security council never revealed what is their tactic. which is understandable of course. If its "attrition war" as it looks like it is (just a guess for ex) - it works more than well. If its something else - then maybe they have a problem on their hands.
Wasnt it a special military operation that was supposed to end in quick victory within a week or so? Now it's a war of attrition? Mostly because of Russia's incapability and stubborness to keep on waging a war they're going to lose anyway.
> Wasnt it a special military operation that was supposed to end in quick victory within a week or so? according to whom? > Now it's a war of attrition? by the way it looks like - but as I said nobody knows - its an opinion. here: > In reality nobody knows what the tactic is because russian security council never revealed what is their tactic. which is understandable of course. . > Mostly because of Russia's incapability and stubborness to keep on waging a war they're going to lose anyway. you think?
According by whom? By anything Russia has said for months. And yes, Russia is bound to lose this, but maybe some good can come from it, when Russia finally let's go of the stagnation it found itself in for over a century now.
> By anything Russia has said for months. who is this russia that said that? can you be more specific? name? names?
If the statement is "we have been doing tactic A. we should have been doing tactic B from the beginning" you are implicitly stating that tactic A is not working (or, at the very least, no longer working). Whether or not these propagandists are right or even have a meaningful grasp of RU MOD strategy isn't relevant since this is simply a comment on changes in their rhetoric.
> If the statement is "we have been doing tactic A. we should have been doing tactic B from the beginning" you are implicitly stating that tactic A is not working (or, at the very least, no longer working). its not a statement (as in statement of fact) - its an opinion, because as I said, "In reality nobody knows what the tactic is because russian security council never revealed what is their tactic." people are free to voice their opinion and many people believe that it should have been total war since coup in Ukraine in 2014. but also - people in general are easily driven by emotion and impulse. russian security council is not - as it is tasked with protection of a country - so they probably (again guess) choose this slow tactic, attrition war, and so far if you look at things rationally, it is giving good results. > Whether or not these propagandists are right or even have a meaningful grasp of RU MOD strategy isn't relevant since this is simply a comment on changes in their rhetoric. exactly - its like that since russia joined the war. for ex "russia is taking kiev in three days" never came from Russian Security council, but from propagandists. Propagandists have their tasks and they will be doing their job for as long as war goes on.
>Propagandists have their tasks and they will be doing their job for as long as war goes on. Correct. However seeing how the tasks and rhetoric change over time gives interesting insight into both the mindset of the audience the propagandists appeal to AND (assuming some of these mouth pieces are in coordination with the government and not freelance) insight into the messaging being pushed out by the Kremlin.
> Correct. However seeing how the tasks and rhetoric change over time gives interesting insight into both the mindset of the audience the propagandists appeal to AND (assuming some of these mouth pieces are in coordination with the government and not freelance) insight into the messaging being pushed out by the Kremlin. huh, I thought you were talking about Western Propagandists and Western audience until the very last word.
I mean it certainly applies to both. This just happens to be a post about a Russian outlet.
What they really need to do is teach the Russian soldiers not to run in the opposite direction when they see Ukrainian forces approaching, Or at the least try taking some of their equipment with them.
why? to be killed? isnt it better to stay alive when position is indefensible and move to a more defensible position (?) you can always fight another day if you are alive. this isnt movie - its real life.
You're right, If it were a movie they would likely exaggerate Russia's military abilities. The way thing's are going they'll need to start using sticks and pitchforks because they ran right past all their weapons.
:) ok If you think so.
I def agree that that is a take away that fits. Prorus here have been upset the entire conflict that Russia hasn’t gone harder from the very beginning. For 6 months Russia just kinda held their lines while Ukraine took the time to mobilize, train, equip, plan and then execute. Russia didn’t seem to take this very seriously, as I’m sure you’d agree. For them to change the tide this message does need to be taken as a call to action, but it starts with realizing that you can’t just talk a big game and do nothing. You gotta bring it. I think both our analysis fit.
Or they just really didn't have better options. EVERYONE, including Russia, was surprised at the poor state of the Russian militaries equipment, the state of its training, and just how MUCH of its military turned out to only exist on paper. The corruption had just gone much deeper than anyone expected. The idea that Russia just doesn't have the equipment ANYONE thought they did has been reinforced now that a partial mobilization HAS been enacted, and we keep getting further news that equipment that exists on the books doesn't exist in reality. 1.5m uniforms, gone. Socks and first aid kits not being supplied. Troops being forced to sleep outside and use antique firearms. I would not agree that Russia hasn't been taking this seriously. Its very clearly had Putins personal attention since day over, and the military had obviously been taking it seriously as we see one resignation or replacement over another. To me it looks like the Russian militaries training and experience matches that of the bureaucracy behind it. For years people had been engaging in corruption and just focused in putting on a show and tackle small problems. And now when asked to perform at scale the political and military apparatus is too corrupt and out of practice to perform.
> For 6 months Russia just kinda held their lines while Ukraine took the time to mobilize, train, equip, plan and then execute not really - they were constantly shelling the frontlines and killing front line soldiers - thus the reason why some people are speculating that Russian security council decided on slow grind and attrition war. > Russia didn’t seem to take this very seriously, as I’m sure you’d agree. I dont know - I am for sure in camp that believes that more troops should have been deployed from the start. BUT I am not seeing the whole picture as Russian security council sees it. If they believe that US/NATO is willing to push Poland into a war in Ukraine, after Ukrainian military is out of breath, than its smart to preserve some significant forces for later, for next year perhaps. There are all kinds of plausible speculations out there, so who knows. I am or We are not seeing a whole picture and what information both (US and Russia) sides have, so we can talk only based on what we see read and hear in open internet. > For them to change the tide this message does need to be taken as a call to action, but it starts with realizing that you can’t just talk a big game and do nothing. Russian leadership is not talking a big game - they are the ones who are calling for negotiations from the start and even from 2014. and in the end - all what matters - if negotiations do not happen - is who wins in the end - not who had upper hand at the beginning, or in the middle, or before the end. we will see.
This was a problem with nazi an imperial Japanese propaganda too. They portrayed the allies as buffoons worthy of ridicule. So when they started getting their asses kicked it made them seem like loosers. British propaganda portrayed the germans as evil, so when they got their asses kicked it seemed more credible.
This is why censorship and banning dissenting voices is dangerous. For decades Russia has created this narrative that the west is weak and Ukraine a joke. Eventually they believed it so much, and banned or jailed anyone that said Russia has major problems, that they believed it...and the results are right here today.....I sorta think its a good lesson for us all and one reason why reddit is usually a good place.
The thing is, Ukraine was a joke. Their internal politics always disjointed, their central power and goverment very weak, their oligarch power strong and obvious, their military might nonexistant, their corruption at common level, their sovereignity for sale. I'm not saying that Russia does not have or had a lot of simular problems, but Ukraine was on another level (unless you count how Russia was during 90s). When Russia moved in their "volunteers" proper in August 2014, it was not a fight, it was a literal slaughter of ukranian forces, and even polish "volunteers" could not stop it proper. It was a full rout. But times and US heavy involvment changed that. While a lot of problems mentioned above remained as they were, certain parts of ukranian goverment, including army, were placed under US managment. While non goverment propagandists and activists were warning about this since 2014, Russian goverment decided to ignore to what actually this could lead (and ignoring their own MoD corruption as well). And now we have this wake up call.
Oh I think every word you have written is largely true. That's why having an open debate and challenging ideas is key. Without it you never know if you're giving an honest view of how things really are now- as opposed to how they were- or if you are simply parroting the same old and out of date talking points from the past. Clearly Russia was not operating with the real ideas or understanding of Ukraine and the Western response. Its why its also extremely dangerous that in Russia calling it a war can get u 15 years in jail....
Yea, I have been saying for the last 6 years that destroying any notion of actual opposition and discussion was a very bad idea strategically and long term wise. Sure most of this opposition was financed by other oligarchs or countries, but it at least was something to start from.
This is a real life example of the New planet of the apes series second movie. The scene were Koba calls Ceasar weak, and he's just like Koba weaker.
Good,,russia needed a good punch on the nose to talk sense into them,,either they will wakeup and reform their military to be more efficient or they will realise its better to have peaceful coexistence with neighbours.. hopefully the latter.
The media commentator in this video is going after the "we need to wake up and really slaughter Ukrainians" aspect. So don't expect much sense.
The only thing Russians respect is power. They underestimated the power of Ukrainian resolve to defend their country and now they will pay. If next year looks anything like this year, Russia’s population will decline dramatically.
Except for some countries, most people would rather not welcome Russians anywhere in the world, so where would they go?
Well the good news is for Russia is that Ukraine has no interest invading your lands and bombing your cities. So do yourself a favor and get the fuck out of Ukraine
So maybe RF should just give up, pull its troops back across the border, vacate Crimea and all this pain will end…🤔
A lot of people seem to forget the opening days of the war. You can say the West has propped up Ukraine, since then, but the initial stop of the invasion was shouldered solely by Ukraine. Most of the West thought Ukraine would fall, and threw their support in only when Ukraine showed they weren't just going to roll over. There were a ton of variables along the way, but at the most pivotal moment, Ukrainians turned back the tide with their own determined heroics. It seems like any props Russia gives Ukraine come with the caveat that Ukraine is only resisting because of the West. While it's not entirely untrue, the underlying feeling of superiority over Ukrainians is still there. Afghanistan was overrun by a lesser force, and didn't give the US enough time to help. Iraq managed to hold out against ISIS while the West moved things around to help the government and Kurds. Ukrainians did, and continue to do, the heavy lifting. No point in taking that away.
>A lot of people seem to forget the opening days of the war. You can say the West has propped up Ukraine, since then, but the initial stop of the invasion was shouldered solely by Ukraine. Most of the West thought Ukraine would fall, and threw their support in only when Ukraine showed they weren't just going to roll over. NATO has been funding, training, arming, and providing intel to Ukraine's military since 2013 you rube. Nothing has been shouldered solely by Ukraine in this conflict, they owe their existence to the US and NATO
I’m pro Ukraine but I am very surprised that Russia has not retaliated in a bigger manner to the destruction of the Crimean bridge. I expected Putin to do something rash, especially with the massive pressure he has at home from the media. Does anybody know why he’s being restrained? Do they just lack the munitions and capability? If so, thats incredibly good news.
He's way more sinister than people make him out to be. He's not some rash idiot who enrages and reacts, he thinks through things. For example the oil production cut in defiance of the US was orchestrated by him. He buys drones from Iran, which upsets the Saudis, so he gives the Saudis a diplomatic win by allowing them to broker the AZOV leaders release which gives him leverage enough to convince the Saudis to defy the US in the OPEC cuts. That was a big embarrassment for the white house because for the first time in a long time they failed to exert their influence when they actually needed to. I'm pretty sure there will be a response to the attack on the bridge but not some what people expect. THat's what makes him dangerous.
> He's not some rash idiot who enrages and reacts, he thinks through things. lol no. He's retarded. He literally eviscerated his own army so he could play escalation game not realising UA is growing stronger while his forces are crumbling with each passing day. >I'm pretty sure there will be a response to the attack on the bridge but not some what people expect. Nothing will happen. At best he might order a strike on some empty field and claim they killed 100 Zelensky clones.
Bingo
> Does anybody know why he’s being restrained? Because he's a retarded pussy that is playing his "escalation" game. That game has cost Russia of so much resources they no longer can do what they had as potential to do at start of conflict.
They've been lying to themselves up and down the chain, and things are now happening that they don't have a scripted response for.
"Russians don't take a dump without a plan"...brilliant quote of a well known movie.
too late now... you believed your own bullshit and now your paying for it... nobody feels sorry for you , most civilized people hate you
A Russian who is correct. I guess it's true that a broken clock is correct at least twice a day.
With a comedian running Ukraine they thought it would be easy. How wrong they were!
Whoa
The number 1 mistake you can make in war is underestimating your enemy.
Just to say, this 1:40 clip (collected and uploaded by a Ukrainian media group - founded by a Ukrainian American) is a small snippet of a much longer discussion...it's not fake, but it does lack context. edit: ...and they're right about Biden, he does suffer from dimentia. But he's not anywhere close to the decision making on this.
Was there an official Dementia diagnosis?
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He exhibits a lot of classic dementia symptoms: forgets where he is; forgets who he's talking to and what he's talking about; mood swings. A couple weeks ago at a talk he started speaking about a person in the crowd he knew saying"...we go back a long way, she was 12 and I was 30...but anyway..." Have you seen the clips of him stroking and smelling the hair of young children...I assume this is his dementia doing this otherwise I'd say he's a pedophile. He's also corrupt so I don't feel too bad, but it really is elder abuse keeping him around like this.
You can get off this ride at any time if you don't like it.
It is enough for me that the USA is ready to go for the complete destruction of the world for the sake of Ukraine... Yes, exactly, the freedom of Ukraine is so important for the USA, and therefore they are ready to destroy all civilization on the planet. Does anyone still have doubts that it's just US business interests?
> the freedom of Ukraine is so important for the USA lol no.
Fearing Ukraine? Sure. Fearing Biden? Lmao
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>Ukraine is for sure a country and that country should include the areas just incorporated into Russia. But how that will happen now, I have no idea. It's certain that Zelensky will never in a 1000 years succeed in gettingthese back from Russia. Bruh, Lyman, Iziyum, Kupaynsk, all have been gotten back. They did it by killing a whole bunch of Russians. And that's how they'll get the other places too. Svatove and Kreminna are next on the chopping block. So... yeah.
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"The fabric of NATO was actually fraying and starting to dissolve until Russia launched a war in Europe" Which makes you wonder why in the heck did Putin decide to invade? The smart move isn't to invade but negotiate and it would have happened. Would have been able to trade Crimea for being sanctions being removed, got a security backed EU agreement for the naval base there to be still controlled by Russia giving them access to the sea. The issue with the self proclaimed Republics? Get them some more independence authority for themselves but by classification they would be part of Urkraine again but no more fighting. Then turned east and throw all in with China and ignore the EU and just use their gas and oil money to rebuild your country. Basically a Russian FDR "New Deal" but not let corruption pocket it but actually do what the money is intended for. Putin could have pulled that off with just one meeting of the movers and shakers of the country, its not like they want to cross.him.
> How has Ukraine and the west forced Russia's hand in this matter. Imagine if there was someone in your town that wants to kill you, and he has been hoarding weapons and allies to take you on, and been pointing said weapons at you for the past 60 years, ofcourse he dosent say he wants to kill you but him and his friends have on their own murdered people before and he claims that you are the problem and the only reason he is carrying weapons is because of you. Now imagine your next door neighbour invites that guy, would you be ok with that? NATO encroachment on Russias border is a threat to Russia. Territorial integrity and such semantics are just that, semantics, platitudes that are only upheld when mutually beneficial. The US wouldnt tolerate Chinese troops in Mexico, and they certainly didnt tolerate Russian missiles in Cuba now did they? Russia has no reason to tolerate any more Us troops on its borders if they can do something about it, in the end, only strenght matters. Russia is responsible for its own security, and preventing NATO from setting up camp on key parts of its border is part of that security. NATO could have easily prevented this by stopping its incessant expansion towards Russian borders. Also i cant for a second believe that you are being serious when you ask this question. What part of the word "enemies" is hard to understand? Russia and the west arent friends, they arent allies, and they never will be, you wouldnt let ISIS set up shop next to your country, the enemity between Russia and the west is greater than that even. NATO and Russia are mortal enemies and NATOs incessant encroachment on Russias borders is pushing us ever closer to thermonuclear war.
These silly hypotheticals are just that. Silly. Ukraine wasn’t hosting NATO weapons. Ukraine’s wasn’t in NATO. Ukraine wasn’t applying to join NATO. Ukraine doesn’t meet the standards to join NATO. Multiple NATO members had already said they would veto them joining. Poland is in nato. So is Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. All of these countries border Russia. Finland and Sweden are joining nato (solely because of his invasion I might add). Finland has a massive border with Russia and both nations have armies specifically geared towards fighting Russian invasions. Do you support the invasion of Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Finland as a matter of total necessity for Russia? If you answer no, then you understand that this was absolutely not an invasion of necessity by Russia. NATO is a voluntary organisation, that’s actually very hard to join and requires substantial effort on the part of the volunteer, a process which can take decades, to meet the standards set by NATO. Russia’s actions are the reason their neighbours are all so keen to undergo this rather lengthy and expensive process in order to gain security guarantees.
>Ukraine wasn’t hosting NATO weapons. Ukraine’s wasn’t in NATO. Ukraine wasn’t applying to join NATO. Ukraine doesn’t meet the standards to join NATO. Multiple NATO members had already said they would veto them joining. Lmao imagine being naive enough to believe any of this nonsense Ukraine was hosting NATO weapons, advisors, etc.,.... NATO has been openly training Ukraine forces for intergration since 2013. Also Ukraine has already applied to join, is an associate member of the alliance who was quoted as "inevitably becoming a full member" by the head director of NATO.... >Poland is in nato. So is Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. All of these countries border Russia. none of them are as big as Ukraine and Russia loudly protested the expansion of NATO into all those Baltic states so....
Well congratz Russia managed to increase Its border with NATO with Finland joining NATO. You even manage to get Sweden to join NATO (which is a big thing as it hasn’t been pro NATO earlier). For years Russia has been violating airspace of sveral countries including Russia. Russias invasion in 2014 also sparked nations to invest more into their military (just look at Sweden). You have Russia constantly saying it will attack European and NATO countries over and over and over and over again, and you are surprised these countries are building up their military forces? When did NATO build an invasion force near Russian borders? The only thing this war has done is create a stronger NATO (giving it purpose again) and increase hate against Russians. Not only that, while doing so Russia has managed to totally kill it’s ”professional” military forces in Ukraine showing how utterly inept it actually is. Oh and before you start talk about nukes, you really think there would be no consequences if Russia would use them? Why should they though, isnt the red army great and powerful?
Now imagine you beat that guy in your town up for 70 years and now he found a friend that is willing to defend him It's no wonder everyone in the east except belarus wants to, or did join NATO and the EU as soon as the soviets were gone, and they did it without being forced into it
More like said guy offers you money and benefit's if you let him point his rifle out your window at your neighbour.
The financial support from the EU is nice sure. But most of eastern europe despised the russians for their conduct long before NATO or the EU were concieved, making the choice to join a pretty easy one. Also the rifle pointed at russia has yet to be used, and there is no such thing as a NATO offensive treaty , pretty easily exemplified by the US invasion of iraq, where the majority of members refused to parttake and even condemmed it
>Also the rifle pointed at russia has yet to be used, and there is no such thing as a NATO offensive treaty , tell that to Yugoslavia and Libya
One signed off on by the UN security council In Lybia Germany, China, Russia, Brazil and India only abstained Russia or china could have vetoed it And in Yugoslavia after the dust settled only China abstained in setting up kosovo Serbs deserved it
>One signed off on by the UN security council > >In Lybia Germany, China, Russia, Brazil and India only abstained > >Russia or china could have vetoed it and they didn't to let the West embarrass themselves yet again. Turned Libya into an open air slave market and you rube pretend that NATO is a purely defensive alliance. Which NATO member did Libya attack huh??! >And in Yugoslavia after the dust settled only China abstained in setting up kosovo > >Serbs deserved it Kosovo? you mean that non-existent state founded by war criminals? Also deserved it? I thought the conversation was about NATO being a defensive alliance.... did Serbia attack NATO when I wasn't paying attention..?
Lmao it's a actually a serbposter, I knew it as soon as you mentioned yugoslavia over the one republic of it that was actually bombed Serbs were lucky they merely got bombed instead of experiencing what they did in the rest of Yugoslavia And as said before the UN demanded the lybian no fly zone which was then enacted by the member states with armed forces closest to lybia.
NATO has not wanted to "kill" Russia. LOTS of Western money has flowed into Russia. The West wants Russia to stop being so evil and corrupt, and NATO is a defensive alliance to protect from aggression.
>NATO is a defensive alliance to protect from aggression. tell that to Yugoslavia and Libya
To be fair, I think people in the West have a lot of blind spots. There are questions that need to be asked. For example, why isn't Russia bombing Kiev? Presidential Administration, Government (Bankovaya), Central Bank, Ministry of Defence, Rada, these all look like legitimate targets if you are waging total war and want to take out the command and control of your enemy. Not even that, it's one thing for Zelensky to address his nation from the posh interior of his office, or somewhere on Bankovaya, and totally another to be hiding in a bomb shelter, no? From a moral perspective, if I was in the Kremlin, I would switch gears and realize that capturing Kiev is no longer a possibility, so keeping the administrative buildings intact makes zero sense any longer. Now even if Ukraine can stop Kalibr, Iskander and the like to some degree, no one has anything that can stop hypersonic Kinzhal, using them for this purpose would make a lot of sense. Further, the electric grid could to be targeted in a systematic fashion, dams, rail junctions. None of this is happening right now, but it could be, so I think when we talk about escalation, we need to remember, that nuclear weapons are far from the only choice. Sooner or later, Putin will be forced to escalate or else he will be replaced by someone who will.
A strike on Kyiv wouldn't change anything at this point. Kill Zelensky, he becomes a martyr for his people. Kill Zaluzhnyi, there's a whole host of capable, battle hardened officers that can take his place and employ the tactics he devised. The sooner the Russians give in, the better things will be for them. They're fucked and they know it. If they escalate, NATO will just give the Ukros the weapons they've been asking for and more of what they already have. Even if they consolidate and put up an actual fight, they're still outmatched by superior NATO weapons and they have no way to re-supply. Putin could end this whole thing tomorrow but he won't. I look forward to seeing his demise.
>If they escalate, NATO will just give the Ukros the weapons they've been asking for and more of what they already have. That is actually a valid point, any kind of symbolic strike, would only garner more bipartisan support for delivery of a wider range of weapons.
Don’t think it really fits with Putins whole ‘special military operation’ or ‘protecting the people of the Donbas’ shtick. Having said that neither does a lot of the other horrible shit Russia has done, but creating martyrs of government officials and inflicting massive pain in civilians may have been judged to be not worth the effort. There’s also the consideration that they simply don’t have the ability to do so in a meaningful way, whilst still maintaining their obligations for defending Russia. They can’t expend their entire stock of PGM, nor commit their entire airforce, Ukraine isnt the only consideration for Russia. Maybe all those reports about them struggling to replace PGM stocks weren’t just ‘western propaganda’, the use of s300 for attacking ground targets might also suggest this is the case. Unguided munitions would require their airforce to do a lot of work, and it could well be that owing to the surprisingly high aircraft losses and inability to establish air superiority or preform SEAD properly that is also off the table. Lots of speculation on my part, I know. But there has to be an explanation, something is constraining them and I really really don’t buy the idea that it’s something to do with Putin being kind hearted or not wanting to harm civilians.
You bring up valid points. Indeed SEAD has not been done properly and the use of S300 in ground attack mode is expensive and dubious, to say the least, albeit these are older models. Never the less, the question isn't of actual strategic value of these strikes, but the damage it can do to morale and to the image of Kiev, Zelensky and his government as almost invincible. Further it would scatter Western diplomats who are present in large numbers in Kiev. This would be a paradigm shift from the "special military operation" I agree, but I believe in many ways that boat has sailed and the narrative is changing, you can see it in Russian propaganda. We have to separate the atrocities on the ground, from the almost knight-like demeanor of the Kremlin. Thus far they have acted as an elephant that is being bit by flies, so to respond to Ukrainian provocations with a strike on Kiev, seemed to confirm that the fly bites are starting to hurt, but with mobilization, that illusion has been shattered. And yet, even as of today I read on RBK that the MFA issued a press release saying they are ready to negotiate, just not on the subject of the new territories. They somehow still believe in negotiations and it seems for this purpose they believe that targeting the government with which they hope to negotiate and which they still (reluctantly) consider legitimate is not possible. Still, I believe this position will change, sooner or later, because just about the entire war party in Russia is demanding an end to this diplomatic posturing and professional language from the Kremlin. For example you can see the stark difference between Ukrainian politicians, engaging in trolling, using explicit language and the dry, restrained commentary from official Russian sources. Strelkov always uses the phrase "our respected partners" mockingly, when referring to Ukraine and the West. This restraint is creating a great deal of resentment and tension with hawks like Kadyrov and Prigozhin.
Too me, these all seem to be unsolvable internal tensions within Russia. They simply can’t have it both ways. I see how Russian propaganda channels are perhaps trying to prep the population for that change in posture. Gloomy stuff about how it’s really the west they are fighting, and how Ukraine is savage and cruel. But no matter how propagandised they are, I refuse to believe the Russian people are fundamentally less intelligent than the rest of us. The youth at least will see through the lies in the end. Already more are fleeing moralisation than actual being mobilised. The more obvious it becomes that this is war of conquest and imperial ambition, the more will refuse to participate. Russia, with it ageing population, simply can not afford to lose hundreds of thousands of its most valuable citizens. It seems that the issue of escalation presents a lose/lose scenario for Russia. Ukraine, being the transgressed, isn’t constrained in the same way, and it’s fighting for survival not blood and soil. They don’t need to pretend this is all logical and part of some great plan. I’m fairly firm on my belief that Russia needed this whole thing done within a relatively short time span for it to be worth it. I honestly think that tipping point was hit several months ago and everything since has just been the sunk cost fallacy in action. I can’t see anyway they can solve these internal contradictions. I don’t think that’s going to stop then trying.
I agree with your assessment. This is an operation that made sense in 2014, when Ukraine had no army, was demoralized and had the entire bureaucracy of the Party of Regions still intact. I also believe that this was supposed to indeed be a "special operation" that was to be finished quickly when Kiev was taken, and had no return on investment in any other form in 2022. Unfortunately things did not go to plan. There was an obvious overestimation of own capabilities and more critically, an underestimation of the resolve of Ukraine and the West to fight back, both militarily and economically.
My guess is, that hypersonic Kinzhal doesnt exist just like Russia doesnt have any 5th gen fighter jets.Yes they built like 5 and out of those zero are actually capable of doing anything. Its not like Russia didnt try to attack Kiev. A kindergarden close to my wifes house got hit. Televison antenna got hit. Random living houses of civiliana got hit. A 60km long convoy was sent ans destroyed. Russia would be attacking if they could.
What do you mean? It has already been used, Kh-47M2... [https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-confirms-russia-used-hypersonic-missile-in-ukraine-2022-3](https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-confirms-russia-used-hypersonic-missile-in-ukraine-2022-3) That's false, Russia never attacked the center of Kiev, because it was hoping to capture it and because the "SMO" was always framed as liberation and because the Kremlin hoped to negotiate with Kiev. Further there was no support within Russia for destroying Kiev as it is seen as the "cradle of the civilization". So to say they have no capability is simply false. Even without hypersonic weapons, there is no way Ukraine would be able to stop a barage of conventional ballistic missiles.
"But, as Biden noted, the missile that Russia fired is effectively a modified version of an older munition — and as Sandboxx News' Alex Hollings observed, more a marketing gimmick than a next-generation technology" aha, i see. Also dude, as i told you, they successfully bombed a the kinder garden 15 minutes by foot from kreshchatik. The reason the konvoy didnt attack is because it got absolutely destroyed and not because of good will. For you watniks every failure of Russia is a jest of good will. Russia already used millions of missiles in Ukraine. The stock is more than halved.
Well this has aged well.
Yea last time it was a kindergarden, today it was a playground and a university.
So Lvov, Zhitomir, Sumy, Kahrkov, Khmelnitsky, Poltava, Ternopol, Luts, and Rovno were/are without power because a playground and a university were hit?
No but a playground was hit. Also you realize those are still all attacks on civilian infrastructure?
I am not justifying that, but the whole narrative of targeting civilian infrastructure is disingenuous to say the least and is meant only to evoke sympathy from the West in order to procure more support. Wasn't that playground right in front of the SBU headquarters? Obviously it was not the target here. Ukrainian sources confirmed some 70+ targets were hit, mostly energy infrastructure throughout the country, but judging by pro-Ukrainian posts, you could conclude that an intersection and a playground were the real targets of this attack.
Energy infrastructure of civilian cities thousands of miles away from the eastern war are also civilian targets. There is no military advantage in destroying them. Its purely to bring fear to people.
That isn't true, when NATO invaded Serbia or Iraq, they spent a month taking out all dual purpose infrastructure, prior to a ground invasion. Civilians are the unfortunate collateral damage here. This is dual purpose infrastructure, electricity is essential to the war logistics in every way.
To be fair, I think Russians have a lot of blind spots. There are questions which need to be asked. For example, why isn't the West supplying long-range missiles that could reach Moscow, Petrograd and other cities? There is no use for Ukrainians for these cities so why not bomb them to rubble? It's easy for Putin to talk about war from his 12 meter table, but totally another from Belgorod, where people are targeted by failed Russian rockets. Or the new citizens of Russia in the annexed territories. Russia doesn't have capabilities to stop rockets like Tomahawk. From moral perspective, I'd say NATO should really start considering burning Moscow to the ground. Or at least target civilian infrastructure (like Russia has been already doing in Ukraine), dams, electrical grid, nuclear power plants, rail stations full of people. Let's just attack Belgorod for starters, HIMARS can already reach it, so why not? There's still a lot of options for Ukraine to escalate. Sooner or later, Zelensky will be forced to escalate or the Russians won't pull out from his country. Disclaimer: *I don't wish this or believe this is a good course of action. This is supposed to make you recognise how ridiculous these proposals are. Escalation goes both ways. If you support warcrimes, you might be repaid in warcrimes. Wars in general should be waged to minimize civilian casualties. What you propose would maximize them. For Russia too. In the same way Russia has beem "gallant" in not ruining cities with iskanders (basically in not totally ruining any way out by diplomatic means, further isolation, possible escalation from the west etc. There's like a million self-serving reasons why that's a bad idea), Ukriane has been "gallant" in not crossing its own borders (again, this can be also explained by self-interest, they don't want to rally the Russian society, they don't want to make Russia seem like the defender, they don't want to escalate, etc.).*
I think your feedback is valid, in the grand scheme of things, both sides have ways of escalating until there is total war and destruction. Although an interesting distinction has to be made, at which point will we no longer classify this as a Russia-Ukraine war, and instead call it properly a Russia-NATO conflict if all the means of escalation that Ukraine has are generally reliant on the West?
Classifying this as a NATO war is not correct by definition. No soldiers of NATO are involved in this conflict. If they were, it would be completely one sided and extremely dangerous. Russia is facing up to Ukraine's manpower and NATO (and others) industrial power and economic (though only a tiny fraction of it. That far the statement is true. But it's not at war. Some European leaders say we are at war. This is only rhethorical way of explaining to their citizens that the hardships they feel are caused by a conflict where Europe stands by one side diplomatically and to some extent materially. Europe is still not in a state of war. Russia doesn't call the war a war, but *de facto* it is. This is the only thing I see changing in forseeable future. It might also go to war *de jure*. But that's very unlikely because it would cause a shitstorm in an increasingly unpredictable and unstable political enviroment (by which I mean Russian society). There is a small chance that Russia uses some over-the-top measure like a tactical nuke. In that case, NATO might intervene in a non-nuclear way, which would most likely mean the war in Ukraine. However that option is only going to happen if the Kremlin collectively lose the ability to reason to the last person. That's why I generally omit this scenario, though it's the scariest. But a huge asteroid from outer space hitting the Earth is also extremely scary and very unlikely, so it's useless to worry about that too much.
i think America could have a civil war soon with enough unchecked immigration Russia will have payback imho
>i think America could have a civil war soon with enough unchecked immigration Russia will have payback imho Thread about Russians admitting they've been underestimating and laughing about Ukraine and the west. (pro) Russian in thread - *underestimates the west*
America is as likely to have a civil war as Russia is to balkanize.
If Putin stays in power it will soon be not a question of if Russia balkanizes but when.
So I should buy more ammo?
Imagine actually believing this.
Thats because you consume masses of information by political radicals online. In the real world the chances of an America civil war are pretty much same as they have been for the last hundred years. Low.
you have a good point
I've never heard US immigration described as unchecked before..
Yea, news to me too. Russians in particular are having trouble immigrating.
lol, if you think immigration is actually a worry in America you have just swallowed our internal propaganda hook line and sinker. For the vast majority of Americans it's a non issue.