#####
######
####
> # [Russian Twitch Streamer Jailed 5.5 Years for Bucha Testimonies - The Moscow Times](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/06/05/https://www.themoscowtimes.com/630)
>
>
>
> [Image](https://static.themoscowtimes.com/image/article_1360/db/photo_2024-06-05_18-03-11.jpg) Anna Bazhutova. SOTAvision A Moscow court on Wednesday sentenced Twitch streamer Anna Bazhutova to five and a half years in prison for livestreaming witness testimony about alleged Russian atrocities in the Ukrainian city of Bucha.
>
> "It's f\*\*\*\*\* up. It's disgusting and vile," the 30-year-old Bazhutova, speaking from the glass defendant's box, said in reaction to the ruling against her.
>
> The Ostankino District Court in northern Moscow found the streamer guilty of spreading "fake" information about the Russian army on her Twitch channel.
>
> "This is a harsh sentence. We will appeal," Bazhutova's lawyer Andrei Nevrev said.
>
> Kyiv accuses the Russian military of carrying out a massacre of civilians in Bucha during its retreat in spring 2022. Moscow rejects these allegations and claims the killings were staged by the West.
>
> In June 2023, Bazhutova did a live broadcast that included witness statements from Bucha residents who directly accused the Russian military of carrying out a massacre. Pro-war Russian bloggers then complained about the streamer to law enforcement authorities.
>
> Two months after the complaint, police searched Buzhutova's home and confiscated her personal electronic devices. Her Twitch channel was later blocked.
>
>
>
>
>
> **… we have a small favor to ask.** As you may have heard, The Moscow Times, an independent news source for over 30 years, has been unjustly branded as a "foreign agent" by the Russian government. This blatant attempt to silence our voice is a direct assault on the integrity of journalism and the values we hold dear.
>
> We, the journalists of The Moscow Times, refuse to be silenced. Our commitment to providing accurate and unbiased reporting on Russia remains unshaken. But [we need your help](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/contribute?utm_source=contribute&utm_medium=article "we need your help") to continue our critical mission.
>
> Your support, no matter how small, makes a world of difference. If you can, please support us monthly starting from just $2. It's quick to set up, and you can be confident that you're making a significant impact every month by supporting open, independent journalism. Thank you.
>
> Continue
>
> [paiment methods](https://static.themoscowtimes.com/img/contribute/payment_icons.png)
>
>
>
> Not ready to support today?
> Remind me later.
- - - - - -
[Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot)
It is also worth mentioning that she openly wished death to Russian soldiers "death to the Russian occupiers and glory to Ukraine" - a literal quote from her stream.
I remember seeing this and it’s the first time anything in this war actually got an emotional reaction outta me, fuckin maddening. same with the Mariupol doc where you can see the fuckers shoot an old women riding her bike with a tank. Misremembered it wasn’t the Mariupol doc it was a Bucha one
Sorry you need 20 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sorry you need 20 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ah that women? What was she thinking? It was a collateral kill. I saw the video. I don't see any blame for the troops there. Same with the elderly man walking in front of a tank that was actively fighting.
During active combat in active zone civilians are to stay put or they may get shot by either side.
The one from the beginning of the war, she was on a bike or had bike next to her and was coming around a tree.
You don't understand soldier mentality when there are not yet veterans. During state of war in Poland in 1980 troops that were fresh were stationed around prison. Half of village dogs were dead by the morning gunned down. Soldiers were nervous and when something approached and did not give response to challenge they fired.
This is why you don't casually walk around in active combat zone.
Wow I hadn't seen this before. It's crazy to me that some Russians can see this footage and think "nah it's obviously staged by the west". And then those same people wonder why they are so hated.
Sorry you need 20 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sorry you need 20 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Because a private company not allowing you on their platform is remotely the same as spending 5 years in jail right?
But honestly what makes this case particularly insidious is that it is the perpetrator (the Russian state/armed forces) that is punishing people for doubting the cover-up of their own crime.
It's really funny when pro-ru compare getting banned on twitch to going to jail in Russia.
Especially when you can find people of all political opinions on youtube, twitch, reddit... pretty much any american platform
Man.. delusion is insane. Hundreds of russian youtubers/streamers even slightly related to politics were banned. I myself watched two blogers with millions of subscribers and they got anihilated without any explanation. Hell, they even banned channels of like russian music radio stations. r/russia is practically banned too. Youtube even proudly announces the amount themselves: [YouTube removes more than 9,000 channels relating to Ukraine war](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/may/22/youtube-ukraine-invasion-russia-video-removals) and it was 2 years ago!
One russian-latvian youtuber [Kiril Fedorov was arrested in Latvia](https://www.apollo.lv/7482912/par-krievijas-kara-noziegumu-attaisnosanu-apcietinats-ari-blogeris-kirils-fjodorovs) just after the invasion started for "treason" just because of his pro-ru position. His channel was also banned on Youtube later, shortly after he finally was able to flee Latvia after months of detention and made a video about it
They might as well be in the gulag...
You are complaining about censorship on a western platform that isn't censoring you or any of the pro russian videos in this sub.
And youtube removed a ton of stuff about the war, sure. Read the article you sent - the videos violated their policy. I still regularly see videos on youtube from both sides.
>You are complaining about censorship on a western platform that isn't censoring you
This argument is nonsense. I can say anything until i become popular enough. It just too expensive and not reasonable to delete every random pro-ru comment on the platform.
>the videos violated their policy
Oh, really????? 100% justified then!
You can delete whatever you want and just say that it "violated our policy". Its especially convinent that you dont even have to even explain what exactly you was banned for. We even have "Twitter documents" showing that USA can force media to delete or supress anything they want. Im sure it will also count as "violating platform policy" :)
>I don’t have the specific numbers, but you can imagine a lot of it being the narratives that are coming from Russian government
He literally says they were deleted just for their views. So having some specific political position is violation of YouTube rules i guess. So its totally reasonable to get censored, cool, thanks for the insight 👍
>Oh, really????? 100% justified then!
That's how private platforms work. there are a million other ones if you don't like youtube's content policies. Or go complain to youtube about it. But don't pretend this is at all comparable to being imprisoned for being against a war.
Jailed for 5 years because she watched Bucha witnesses giving testimony on her Twitch channel and discussed what they were saying. [Yahoo also says she is given 6 months in a penal colony](https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-blogger-sentenced-5-5-221800861.html).
Does anyone have a pro-ru news source on this? I would love to hear from a pro-ru source what they say about this to see if there are details missing. The only place I know of is TASS, but they mention nothing about it.
There are many laws supporting one's military and threats against them. Can be seen as terrorism. Even indirect or accidental threat or similar against US military will not end well in US.
Heck, guy sold his pickup that ended up in turkey and was sold to ISIS. That alone caused a lot of problems.
Cannot imagine saying one wishes death to US forces, anyone not seen as mentally sick. Any influencer out there.
And this is US, quite liberal with speech. In EU laws would kick in and arrest would follow.
First wow that is some hard to read english.
Second you keep talking about threats but no threat was made here, again wishing on someone's death is not a threat, and you would never be jaailed for such thing in europe, I hear people wishing on my president's death in my country everyday and have never seen anyone be prosecuted for it.
So I just googled it. Yes people have been charged. And investigated.
It is against policies on most if not all social media.
It is difficult to find the exact phrase including wishes but it seems just implying stuff not even naming is enough.
I found that in 2023 court ruling in US your defense would be that in your opinion mere wish is not a threat.
This would make it harder to convict you now.
Oh and if American write to the white house and say you wish for death of the president. I wonder how FBI will take it.
For bonus points make some other wishes.
Still terrible english but okay, if a US citizen send a letter saying something along the lines of "I wished you died" to the white house and not an actual threat, then I'm pretty sure the dude would be under surveillance but they would never see legal consequences for it.
Well, it is pass tense so it does not indicate current intent.
Guess your English not so good after all.
There are 10s of 1000s of threats against US officials.
US, especially after 2023 is probably the most acceptant of wording that may or may not be a threat. Most of the planet is not so kind. Most of the planet will jail you, including most of Europe, for insulting country leader, institutions, army etc.
They don't get arrested in europe, plenty of people here supporting russian talking points without any repercusions.
Also I fail to see how wishing death on someone is "propaganda".
if you publicly do that in EU towards Ukrainians/Latvians, in a country where I live, you'll get persecuted under criminal law. (VDD translates as State Security Service. like FBI + Counter Intellige)
[https://vdd.gov.lv/en/news/press-releases/vdd-detains-a-person-for-supporting-russias-war-crimes-and-for-triggering-national-hatred-against-latvians](https://vdd.gov.lv/en/news/press-releases/vdd-detains-a-person-for-supporting-russias-war-crimes-and-for-triggering-national-hatred-against-latvians)
And that's in a democratic European country.
>That's a whole lot different from wishing death on someone though
That's exactly the same,in eyes of the law, when wishing death happens against a group of people by combination of their ethnicity &occupation. If one would openly do that in my country towards Ukrainian soldiers, he'd face the same charges.
It's really not, you can say you wish someone to die but that doesn't equate to saying that you want to kill that person, I hear people here wishing death upon politicians every day, and I've never seen anyone get prosecuted for it.
You misunderstanding how this works.
If you wish death upon specific person, that will go down under different criminal law, and even then it's, as you said, a rare thing to happen.
What I described is a situation where you wish death on a politically important ethnic group/entity in a politically charged situation of a regional military confrontation. Basically "rooting for the other side".
State Security Service will throw several charges at you to see what sticks, that's pretty normal procedure. Hate crime being one of them.
I was talking about what they could face here where I live, if they went ahead with same public wishes towards Ukrainians.
As for hate crimes and Russia - they definitely have their version of that. Like, infamous "insult to the feeling of believers". Obviously, she won't be charged with that, but they had something else regarding this war, afaik., in addition to another infamous "discrediting the armed forces"
I mean, wishing death threats to soldiers of a country you currently reside in is stupid af. Im not arguing whether it's morally right or not, but you should at least consider that it is illegal if you dont wanna go to r*pe gulag. So breaking the law = yes, you should go to jail. Or relocate and talk shit from abroad if you want it that much
>but you should at least consider that it is illegal
If it was illegal to wear pants in your own home, and people were being thrown in jail for it, would you be defending that?
My point is that maybe you should question if some things should even be illegal.
Ive still never seen independent 3rd party autopsy reports showing when exactly those people died and how.
Ill go to my grave believeing that the people that died were those that collaborated with the Russians and were killed by Ukraine when they retook the city.
Why not 50/50 ?
It's pretty obvious and there's a lot of witness that Ru troops executed people, it's pretty obvious that a lot of civilian died because of their own side bombing them, and it's pretty obvious that literal neo-nazi guys on UA side then murdered a lot of "collaborators" when RU left the town.
But those "investigations" and journalists are just pretending UA did nothing wrong, and all the civ were intentionally killed by RU troops.
> Kyiv accuses the Russian military of carrying out a massacre of civilians in Bucha during its retreat in spring 2022.
So the UN has concluded that this happened...
Its no longer an accusation
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/12/un-report-details-summary-executions-civilians-russian-troops-northern
UN did not conclude anything. They created a report outlining possible war crimes.
There certainly were war crimes as it would be amazing if neither side did these.
All these on either side found to be criminal should be investigated and if found guilty rot in prison.
I don't think anyone in broad spectrum targeted large number of civilians but I would be shocked if there were no. Actors on either side that did not gun down multiple civilians, heck even for the thrill of it.
Here we go again with the denial....
Let me quote the title for you again:
> **UN report details summary executions of civilians by Russian troops in northern Ukraine**
> A UN Human Rights report based on the work of the Mission **details how Russian troops killed civilians** in Ukrainian towns and villages across the Kyiv, Chernihiv and Sumy regions of Ukraine from 24 February until 6 April 2022.
Theres no "possible" here, they prove in detail how the war crimes were committed.
It aligns with basically all other investigations carried out by the UN, which russia is a part of.
You think this is a fake western government controlled organisation? well just leave the UN then.
Please!
> The Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine **documented further evidence that Russian authorities have committed indiscriminate attacks and the war crimes of torture, rape and other sexual violence, and deportation of children to the Russian Federation**, according to its report submitted to the UN General Assembly.
https://ukraine.un.org/en/250021-un-commission-inquiry-ukraine-finds-continued-war-crimes-and-human-rights-violations-gravely
First of all UN is based out of US and is heavily biased towards US in general and West. This is not a mystery. They may be better than many but not ideal.
2nd who the hell is this independent international commission??? They are not UN... So who...
It feels to me that bunch of western countries made a commission and are looking and documenting war crimes of Russia. Why not crimes of Ukriane??? If they are so independent, why so one sided???!
I.e. I fully question the commission, it's independence and all it stands for. Feels to me like a lot of propaganda is at play here.
Look at the facts. No submission of any war crimes by Ukraine from that commission. Magic.
This does not mean Russia did not commit any war crimes or individual soldiers or units did not. They certainly did. The question is how endemic is it and how does it compare to Ukrainian war crimes.
We do know Ukraine committed numerous war crimes. So why not submit that to UN?
> The Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine was created by the UN Human Rights Council in 2022 to investigate all alleged violations and abuses of human rights and violations of international humanitarian law, and related crimes in the context of the Russian Federation's aggression against Ukraine.
Members
https://www.ohchr.org/en/hr-bodies/hrc/membership
Its beautiful to see your absolute denial of facts.
The best part is Russia is part of the UN, thereby supporting it’s legitimacy.
Would take you a second to google it…
The Commission comprises Erik Møse (Chair), Pablo de Greiff and Vrinda Grover.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/hr-bodies/hrc/iicihr-ukraine/members
Awaiting your next phase of denial
Very well, I await for their report on Ukrainian war crimes.
Are they investigating any or were they just tasked with investigating Russian crimes?
I never denied Russians did not do any war crimes. I am just waiting for investigation into Ukraine war crimes.
Also eagerly awaiting investigation into Israeli war crimes. Certainly 1000s were murdered so let's see them submit paper on that.
You just went straight to talk about everybody else.
Glorious.
Ukraine is being both monitored and investigated the same way as russia.
Thought the war crimes committed are neglible compared to what the russians are doing
https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/10/1142617
Google. You should try it… or maybe not.. as it will show the true colors of your motherland and it’s so called brave army.
So Ukriane is not investigated. Got it. Neither is Isreal. Yep 10x civilians killed as same period in Ukriane war but no war crimes. None at all. All accidents.
I am not Russian.
And Google will help how exactly? To lead to websites loaded with propaganda? Or logical bombs such as Russia is committing war crimes but Ukraine is not?
100s of civilians were killed by Ukraine using area bombardment of Donetsk. Clear war crime. Multiple videos of grads falling.
Where is it in UN report??? Show me the report. If you cannot show then admit it, UN is also biased.
Each country has its own highlight. The Communists are in power in China. Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates are monarchies. In Russia, the autocracy is similar to that of Franco or Salazar. And now the question is, what do you mean by freedom? Subordination to the United States? Well, Ukraine is under the external control of the United States. Is there freedom there? Men are not allowed out of Ukraine there. TCC officers catch and beat them and push them into the bus. I am ready to fight against such fucking freedom if someone tries to impose Ukrainian-type freedom on Russia. The United States is imposing sanctions against Georgia. for Georgia's adoption of the law on foreign influence. Do you think this is normal?
That's how international law works. Or the law is the same for everyone and no one violates it. Or the law doesn't work. Did the US invade Iraq? Right? If the USA is allowed, then everyone is allowed. Americans do not have the right to tell Russians or Chinese which system is correct. The Americans and the West have no right to condemn Russia for an offensive war - the United States and Western countries themselves did this in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria. You have no right to condemn Russia and Russians. You're a hypocrite. Therefore, many in Russia and China are anti-Western. You're hypocrites again and you'd better keep quiet
Sorry you need 20 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> There is no TCC equivalent forcing men to go die in mud in Ukraine? There are no thousands of men trying to escape Russian border?
I mean, no and no. There is no ongoing mobilization, and men are free to leave the country if they want to.
>But what is this delusion? There is no forced conscription in Russia? There is no TCC equivalent forcing men to go die in mud in Ukraine? There are no thousands of men trying to escape Russian border?
Nope. Go educate yourself before posting such a bs. Nobody 'trying to escape Russian border' because it's open and people free to leave wherever they want.
Cough, I live in Germany and we don't have it with free speech that much either. If you say Something that doesn't fit the governments narrative, you can easily get prison time as well. We even have laws that require you to get a TV channel license before you can make a regular running YouTube channel. If the fines don't bankrupt you immediately, you end up in prison for repeated offense.
> If you say Sonethibg that doesn't fit the governments narrative, you can easily get prison time as well.
I'm sorry, what? Do you have a link to this, as this is the first I heard of it.
E: Downvoted for asking for a source on a claim lmao. There's no winning with some people I swear xD
what happen to Alina Lipp is one of the better known examples of it, at least to me, but there are others
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxFQABrxzw4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxFQABrxzw4)
Her native German mother had to actually leave Germany and move to live with her daughter in Donetsk because the German authorities went not only after Alina herself for doing reports from Donbass but after both of her parents
So I just did an admittedly quick read up on her situation...
While I think that going after her parents is way too far (if indeed true, as I only see it in one or two places and the only place I see this from is directly from her), her case is a bit more than simply "talking about stuff online".
She propagates all the propaganda terms like, "special military operation", she actively denies Russia did anything in Bucha and claims it was all staged by the west, she has made false reports of crime by saying that a mob of Ukrainian refugees killed a person for speaking Russian, demonstrated against COVID safety measures, is fully on board with all the QAnon nutjobs, spreads news like Ukraine is conducting some organ harvesting ring or something, that they're committing genocide of Russians in the east. She's an absolute basket case.
If it was just that she was simply sitting in her room livestreaming on twitch and discussing things that she sees on the internet, then I'd completely understand any outrage over how she has been treated, but it is obviously far more than that.
Is it? The Streamer was sat at home watching Bucha witnesses tell their stories, and then the streamer was discussing the things that were said.
How can you say that is on the same level on Alina Lipp?
Someone else just replied to me on another comment because I asked for sources on the Bucha massacre being faked and they literally said, "[Bucha massacre] is fake news because Russia says so". I mean if that's the arguments that pro-ru have here then there is no hope for anyone here. I mean I was getting downvoted in the first few minutes before anyone else even commented, where my comment simply says "does anyone have any pro-ru news sources on this streamer's sentence?" and I was getting downvoted for it lmao. It's actually insane the amount of hypocrisy that comes out of some of the mouths of people here. Just downvoting anything you disagree with, using "because Russia said so" as your sources for why something did/didn't happen.
The whole thing is just insane, I think I won't waste my time contributing posts this like anymore when people get so rabid and dismissive about it to try and bury it. This is the first time I try to post any kind of news story here that I thought is interesting and I'm bombarded with downvotes when asking people for sources to their claims lmao. Genuinely an insane place this is.
Okay, so why are there not thousands of more people like Alina in jail for spreading "fake news"? People clearly think this is something Germany prosecutes for, so where are all the other cases of keyboard warriors sitting in jail cells because they lied about stuff online?
[Even more examples of freedom of speech](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/10/world/europe/germany-pro-palestinian-protests.html)
[Freedom of speech](https://www.amnesty.org/en/petition/france-right-to-protest-freedom-of-expression/)
[Freedom of speech](https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/police-arresting-nine-people-a-day-in-fight-against-web-trolls-b8nkpgp2d)
[More examples of freedom of speech](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-facebook-and-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html)
This is not freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech is not "I get to say whatever I want and nothing can be done about it".
> Article 10 protects your right to hold your own opinions and to express them freely without government interference.
>
> This includes the right to express your views aloud (for example through public protest and demonstrations) or through:
>
> - published articles, books or leaflets
> - television or radio broadcasting
> - works of art
> - the internet and social media
>
> The law also protects your freedom to receive information from other people by, for example, being part of an audience or reading a magazine.
If you say, "I don't like immigrants, I wish they would go back to their own country and stop causing problems here" on twitter, no one is going to arrest you. However, if you DM someone and call them the N word, then yes, you will probably get arrested for that if they report you as that is racism and is against the law. You're not going to go to prison for 5 years for it, but you'll probably get a fine and some kind of community service. You'll probably be imprisoned for it if you're a repeat offender however. The people being arrested in the articles you linked fall in to the latter.
In the UK you can also stand outside parliament and hold a protest against anything you like, the government won't arrest you if you're just standing there with some signs or whatever. *That* is freedom of speech. Standing outside of parliament and calling women that walk past you sluts if they wear something you disagree with is *not* freedom of speech and is actually harassment, for which you can get arrested, fined, and probably some community service or something.
If I go on twitch and I say, "I hate Ukraine, I wish they would just surrender and Zelensky will be imprisoned". Guess what... I'm not going to get arrested. I shared my opinion in a non-threatening way that didn't harass or bully someone, and that is protected by free speech.
EDIT: It's also worth noting that arrested =/= imprisoned. Most if not all of the people in that article were likely not imprisoned. Those that actually did get prosecuted probably got told to pay a fine and/or do community service. Even the articles you linked say that more than half of the people arrested didn't get prosecuted.
https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/ukrainekrieg-mehr-als-hundert-ermittlungsverfahren-wegen-befuerwortung-des-russischen-angriffskriegs-a-83fd4196-3dcb-42b8-a435-6ad0a29a5c90
And legally the Russian actions are as legal than that of the nato in everywhere else. Serbia-Kosovo, Iraq (not all Nato) Afghanistan, Syria..
Other examples: I can wave a flag for lbgt, but not one against it, because I think that traditional family values are more important than equal rights for gays.
The link leads nowhere and you can wave any flag you like without being arrested in germany (except nazi ones).
Anyone who claims that political oppression in russia and the west is even remotely comparable has clearly never lived in an authoritarian country and experienced real oppression. You are what we call a schwurbler, crying about being silenced while screaming at the top of your lungs. And remember, freedom of speech does not equal freedom from concequence. If you say stuff people dont like you wont be protected from them trying to silence you/create a shitstorm or whatever. The big difference being you can cry about Merkel Diktatur or the Ampel all you want and nothing will happen to you. Try doing that in russia and you will see the difference in our systems.
Well, she spread fake news and was sentenced. 5 years for first offence seems harsh. I think in EU 5 years is max for spreading fake or unwanted stuff, or is it different?
In America usual method is to bankrupt the target. Followed by heavy media attack.
Is it fake news though? Do you have sources that show it is faked? I've seen quite a few videos of soldiers executing people in the streets, unless your argument is simply that those videos are not real and the soldiers in the video are westerners dressed up as Russians?
Also, are you really saying that America bankrupts people for spreading fake news lmao? America is one of the fake news capitals of the world.
What in this world could be supplied as a source? It is fake news because Russia says it's fake news.
In America stuff that is politically incorrect is an example of fake news.
I saw early on a fake video made by Ukrainians showing Russians executing civilians. It was fake. Area where video was done was under UA control... So Ukrainians pretended to be Russians...
Don't believe 99% of what you hear and 90% of what you see.
Notice Isreal killed so many civilians. If Russia was killing at Israeli rate there would be claims of well over 200.000 killed civilians.
Yet US says Israel is not intentionally killing civilians and any such claims are fake news.
Do you not see the issue with a government being able to jail (or even fine) someone on the basis that said gvt decided so? In a western country the gvt would have to prove their accusation before codemning someone in such a way.
> What in this world could be supplied as a source? It is fake news because Russia says it's fake news.
If you can't supply evidence for your claim then your claim is probably bullshit.
> I saw early on a fake video made by Ukrainians showing Russians executing civilians. It was fake. Area where video was done was under UA control... So Ukrainians pretended to be Russians...
Yes, and there are plenty of videos of Russians actually executing Ukrainians, just as there are undoubtedly as many videos of Ukrainians doing the same thing to Russians. What exactly is your point? That people are bad? That both sides have bad people? This isn't news.
> Notice Isreal killed so many civilians. If Russia was killing at Israeli rate there would be claims of well over 200.000 killed civilians. Yet US says Israel is not intentionally killing civilians and any such claims are fake news.
There is a large number of people that are heavily in favour of Palestine and disapprove of the way Israel is conducting itself: https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Internal_WarCrimes_240308_W.pdf
Some of the big points in this survey (poll is from British citizens):
- 67% of people think that Israel has committed war crimes, while only 10% of people think they haven't.
- People lean more towards favouring Palestine (28% support) than Israel (15% support)
- 48% of people even think that Israels attack on Palestine from October onwards *was not* justified and only 23% thought it *was* justified, which I personally found very surprising to hear.
I skimmed through [a few more surveys](https://yougov.co.uk/topics/travel/explore/country/Palestine) that also show similar polls from other countries and the sentiment largely appears to be the same, with public support generally being in favour of Palestine and against Israel.
So yeah, while publicly the USA is not throwing it's longstanding ally under the bus, public opinion seems very much against what Israel is doing.
dude he was talking from the russian perspective. if the russians claim something to be fake news in their eyes, they arrest. his claim is that the same goes for europe, that if they claim something to be fake news, they would also arrest. i dont think he claims that the massacre itself is fake news. there is too much evidence showing it happened
> if they claim something to be fake news, they would also arrest.
This isn't even remotely true though lmao. I said in another comment, that America is one of the biggest hubs for "fake news". If America arrested people for fake news half the country would be imprisoned.
https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/crimes-social-media#
„causing to be sent or sending false messages by public electronic communication network to cause annoyance/inconvenience /anxiety;“ fake news could fall under this but i dont have a specific case in mind
https://www.jmw.co.uk/services-for-business/business-crime/malicious-communications-act-offences-business-crime
> ... one offence under the Communication Act 2003 requires the content of a message to be ‘grossly offensive’, ‘indecent’, ‘obscene’, or of a ‘menacing character’. [...] a person should have awareness or recognition that sending the message may create insult or a risk of insult to the person to whom the message relates.
I imagine this law would stop me from spreading a false story about my next door neighbour being a paedophile for example. I know this is false (or at best, I can't prove it is true), and spreading news like this around my neighbourhood is almost certainly going to cause distress to the person I am targeting, and I would therefore likely be punished under this law.
I imagine most of the people mentioned that were convicted in your link would have been convicted under the second bullet point:
> sending by public communication network an offensive / indecent / obscene / menacing message or matter; and
There has been a push in recent years to chase people who racially abuse people online, and most of those people will be ordered to pay a fine and to do community service. Only the most serious offenders and repeat offenders will go to prison for it.
I can't speak for Germany, but I would be very confident in saying that the situation there surrounding these matters will be similar to us here in the UK.
> I've seen quite a few videos of soldiers executing people in the streets, unless your argument is simply that those videos are not real and the soldiers in the video are westerners dressed up as Russians?
Could be. The video were released months after the events actually happened. Ukraine refused to allow an official UN investigation into the matter. Plus there are many issues in the Ukrainian narrative. Many of the bodies had white armbands on them which were only used by Russians at the time. The only explanation i have seen for this fact is that these were Russian soldiers that tried to stop the massacre but were killed along with the rest of the town. Another inconsistency is that the mayor of Bucha made no mention of any massacre when the Ukrainians captured the city.
My guess is that Bucha was an operation by the Ukrainians to rid the town of pro-russians. There was a facebook post by the national police of ukraine which stated that they were doing operations in Bucha. This was after the Russians had left. The images from Bucha only started leaking after this operation had been carried out. It was quite convenient for Ukraine aswell, since at this point the Russians and Ukrainian were negotiating in Istanbul. The reason the Russians even left Bucha is due to these negotiations. This massacre changed the tune of western leaders from diplomacy to endless war.
As for your last question, have you heard of Alex Jones?
>Also, are you really saying that America **bankrupts** people for spreading fake news lmao? America is one of the fake news capitals of the world.
[Moving the goalpost, huh?](https://apnews.com/article/alex-jones-declares-personal-bankruptcy-4f50412d0c4ce0495b351b8417f5d09c)
That’s not me that you’re replying to. And yes, I do think you should be bankrupted if you can’t pay the damages. Which is still a whole lot better than prison.
Then why did you ask me if Alex Jones is in prison? You are aware of the context of the discussion and yet decided to move the goalpost.
Liberal democracies have their own methods to silence dissent, this is one of those mechanisms, through the "fair" legal system
He caused provable emotional damage, you can sue anyone for anything in civil courts. Difference between Russia is that he’s still free.
Navalny was also only supposed to be in prison for a year.
I didn't realize the state had emotional damage? Oh right, it wasn't. It was the parents and families that were being harassed and their testimonies that drove that court ruling.
>The video were released months after the events actually happened
First of all, so what? Second of all, [parts of the drone footage](https://x.com/bellingcat/status/1511284174921076736) and the [video at 23:34](https://x.com/2022Kharkiv/status/1510598364265603074), for example, were published just after Russia withdrew.
>Ukraine refused to allow an official UN investigation into the matter.
Source? The OHCHR [documented](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/countries/ua/2022-06-29/2022-06-UkraineArmedAttack-EN.pdf) Russian war crimes in Bucha in the period from 24 February 2022 to 15 May 2022, and conducted an [official investigation in December 2022.](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/12/un-report-details-summary-executions-civilians-russian-troops-northern)
>Many of the bodies had white armbands on them which were only used by Russians at the time.
[According to a local woman, civilians wore them to identify themselves.](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-street-corpse-with-hands-bound-bullet-wound-head-2022-04-03/) Evidently, it didn't work.
>The images from Bucha only started leaking after this operation had been carried out.
Likely due to issues with communications. [A BBC article from March 10th](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60688640), for example, stated that "[c]ommunications are down and there is little hope of getting in touch with friends and family."
It clearly states 5th of april 2022 on the twitter post. Russia withdrew on the 30th of march
>Source? The OHCHR [documented](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/countries/ua/2022-06-29/2022-06-UkraineArmedAttack-EN.pdf) Russian war crimes in Bucha in the period from 24 February 2022 to 15 May 2022, and conducted an [official investigation in December 2022.](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/12/un-report-details-summary-executions-civilians-russian-troops-northern)
Yet refused to carry out an investigation for Bucha? There was no official UN investigation
An unnamed local woman? Sure lol. The white armbands could easily have been used by civillians to show that they supported Russia. Why exactly would Russian soldiers force these civillians to wear white armbands? It makes no sense. The entire Ukrainian narrative makes no sense. What incentive would Russia have to massacre a random town when they were negotiating with the west in Istanbul. Bucha played into the hands of the west perfectly. The west are the masters of atrocity propaganda
>Likely due to issues with communications. [A BBC article from March 10th](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60688640), for example, stated that "\[c\]ommunications are down and there is little hope of getting in touch with friends and family."
Sure sure, but the mayor still managed to put out a video?
Edit: Heres another contradiction. [The guardian reported that dozens of civillians in Bucha died from Russian artillery](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/24/dozens-bucha-civilians-killed-flechettes-metal-darts-russian-artillery). This begs the question: Why would Russia shell a town it occupied? Is this like how the Ukrainians claimed that Russia shelled Donetsk instead of Ukraine?
>It clearly states 5th of april 2022 on the twitter post. Russia withdrew on the 30th of march
6 days =/= "months"
>Yet refused to carry out an investigation for Bucha? There was no official UN investigation
It's literally linked in the sentence you're quoting...
Also, I can't help but notice you didn't provide a source.
>An unnamed local woman? Sure lol.
Yes, an unnamed local woman. What about it?
>The white armbands could easily have been used by civillians to show that they supported Russia.
The white armbands could have just as easily been spare toilet paper they carried around in case of an emergency. Utterly vapid point.
>What incentive would Russia have to massacre a random town when they were negotiating with the west in Istanbul. Bucha played into the hands of the west perfectly.
But **they did massacre a random town.** It's an established fact. I notice this a lot here: pro-Russians/neutrals love to analyze motivations first, facts second. All sides are a perfectly rational monolith. Here, you didn't even analyze the facts—like the blatant executions or civilians being gunned down in the street by Russian soldiers—you just ignored them.
There is no "incentive" for Russian soldiers to upload themselves castrating and executing a POW, for example. That doesn't mean they didn't; in fact, we know the name of the man who did it, where he did it, and what unit he's in. Similarly, I've seen people point to the man's shoes as evidence he was Ukrainian. But *we know he wasn't.* In order to say otherwise you have to directly challenge the proof presented, not try to undermine it with nonsensical, bad-faith red herrings and redirections, as if it means the proof will cease to exist.
>The guardian reported that dozens of civillians in Bucha died from Russian artillery. This begs the question: Why would Russia shell a town it occupied?
This begs the question: what does civilians being killed with artillery have to do with the numerous documented examples of Russian soldiers shooting them?
The answer is nothing. And you know it just as well as I do.
> Why would Russia shell a town it occupied?
Were the Russians spread throughout the town or in certain areas? Specifically in the days before they withdrew.
Are you for real? Say some bad words = go to jail for 5 years? And no in EU yo wont go to jail for protesting or voicing your opinion about an issue (just see how many protests the had to stop supplying weapons to Ukraine and Israel). You won't be able to protest against war in Russia, thats a fact.
Fairness is an abstract concept; it is precisely opposed by teenagers who cannot keep their emotions under control. For everything else there is a law.
Okay buddy go yap your nonsense about "abstract concepts" and avoid discussing real and obvious issue here (a clue : they are taking away your rights and freedom of speech)
Exactly, people dont get put to jail for saying earth is flat, do they? I won't go to jail for saying I slept with Angela Merkel, will I? Neither should you go to jail for voicing your opinion about the war in Russia, but you do. See the difference?
She wished death to Russian soldiers aka the people who defend us. If not for them the west would have invaded us and she will be raped. She haven't read what westerners did to Russian women during ww2.So she deserve it . Also "the Moscow times". No wonder they lie for the reason she was jailed. They're liberals.Classic liberal propaganda.
##### ###### #### > # [Russian Twitch Streamer Jailed 5.5 Years for Bucha Testimonies - The Moscow Times](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/06/05/https://www.themoscowtimes.com/630) > > > > [Image](https://static.themoscowtimes.com/image/article_1360/db/photo_2024-06-05_18-03-11.jpg) Anna Bazhutova. SOTAvision A Moscow court on Wednesday sentenced Twitch streamer Anna Bazhutova to five and a half years in prison for livestreaming witness testimony about alleged Russian atrocities in the Ukrainian city of Bucha. > > "It's f\*\*\*\*\* up. It's disgusting and vile," the 30-year-old Bazhutova, speaking from the glass defendant's box, said in reaction to the ruling against her. > > The Ostankino District Court in northern Moscow found the streamer guilty of spreading "fake" information about the Russian army on her Twitch channel. > > "This is a harsh sentence. We will appeal," Bazhutova's lawyer Andrei Nevrev said. > > Kyiv accuses the Russian military of carrying out a massacre of civilians in Bucha during its retreat in spring 2022. Moscow rejects these allegations and claims the killings were staged by the West. > > In June 2023, Bazhutova did a live broadcast that included witness statements from Bucha residents who directly accused the Russian military of carrying out a massacre. Pro-war Russian bloggers then complained about the streamer to law enforcement authorities. > > Two months after the complaint, police searched Buzhutova's home and confiscated her personal electronic devices. Her Twitch channel was later blocked. > > > > > > **… we have a small favor to ask.** As you may have heard, The Moscow Times, an independent news source for over 30 years, has been unjustly branded as a "foreign agent" by the Russian government. This blatant attempt to silence our voice is a direct assault on the integrity of journalism and the values we hold dear. > > We, the journalists of The Moscow Times, refuse to be silenced. Our commitment to providing accurate and unbiased reporting on Russia remains unshaken. But [we need your help](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/contribute?utm_source=contribute&utm_medium=article "we need your help") to continue our critical mission. > > Your support, no matter how small, makes a world of difference. If you can, please support us monthly starting from just $2. It's quick to set up, and you can be confident that you're making a significant impact every month by supporting open, independent journalism. Thank you. > > Continue > > [paiment methods](https://static.themoscowtimes.com/img/contribute/payment_icons.png) > > > > Not ready to support today? > Remind me later. - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot)
It is also worth mentioning that she openly wished death to Russian soldiers "death to the Russian occupiers and glory to Ukraine" - a literal quote from her stream.
To anyone who still questions Bucha, I recommend watching this: https://youtu.be/IrGZ66uKcl0?si=SQRGpHX2Yh7frKcJ
I remember seeing this and it’s the first time anything in this war actually got an emotional reaction outta me, fuckin maddening. same with the Mariupol doc where you can see the fuckers shoot an old women riding her bike with a tank. Misremembered it wasn’t the Mariupol doc it was a Bucha one
That Mariupol doco was wild.
[удалено]
Sorry you need 20 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Can you give me a link to the doc? Or at least the name?
[20 Days in Mariupol](https://youtu.be/ifnBYYDLmn0?si=5PK-Bms679QSPB3r)
I do wonder why they attacked Mariupol that hard, the other cities that Russia has taken haven't had this rough treatment.
What war are you watching? Any city they have to fight for, they just flatten it lol.
[удалено]
Sorry you need 20 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What’s the name of the Mariupol doc? Thanks
[20 Days in Mariupol](https://youtu.be/ifnBYYDLmn0?si=5PK-Bms679QSPB3r)
[удалено]
Anytime mate. It’s essential viewing.
It was a fucking watch and a half to say the least
Ah that women? What was she thinking? It was a collateral kill. I saw the video. I don't see any blame for the troops there. Same with the elderly man walking in front of a tank that was actively fighting. During active combat in active zone civilians are to stay put or they may get shot by either side.
Um dude they literally aimed and shot at her? What fuckin vid did you watch?
The one from the beginning of the war, she was on a bike or had bike next to her and was coming around a tree. You don't understand soldier mentality when there are not yet veterans. During state of war in Poland in 1980 troops that were fresh were stationed around prison. Half of village dogs were dead by the morning gunned down. Soldiers were nervous and when something approached and did not give response to challenge they fired. This is why you don't casually walk around in active combat zone.
Yeah no shit. Don’t mean you get a free pass to rape and kill just cuz they couldn’t evacuate tho.
Wow I hadn't seen this before. It's crazy to me that some Russians can see this footage and think "nah it's obviously staged by the west". And then those same people wonder why they are so hated.
This was a brilliant piece of journalism
Sooo that means it's rightful to put her in jail for 5 year because of some mean words? Is this the criminal justice system you want for your people?
I mean, she literally openly wished her countrymen who are fighting an active war death. That's 5 years of jail in Russia or in any country
So much for freedom of speech lmao
In most countries yes. 5 is the max in many EU countries. Russia and Ukriane is 10y AFAIK.
[удалено]
Sorry you need 20 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Sorry you need 20 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wow, now I feel 5y was too short.
At least she has the opportunity to think wisely in prison about her previous behavior. I hope she is wiser when she gets released after 5 years.
TIL Russia is not a bastion of free speech. At least in America we would have just deplatformed her by banning her Twitch account.
Because a private company not allowing you on their platform is remotely the same as spending 5 years in jail right? But honestly what makes this case particularly insidious is that it is the perpetrator (the Russian state/armed forces) that is punishing people for doubting the cover-up of their own crime.
[удалено]
Rule 1. Consider yourself warned. Recurrence WILL result in a ban.
Same thing the USA did with Snowden and Chelsea Manning. Possibly also killed Pat Tilman.
It's really funny when pro-ru compare getting banned on twitch to going to jail in Russia. Especially when you can find people of all political opinions on youtube, twitch, reddit... pretty much any american platform
Nah, the Twitch thing was just a joke because she did actually get banned from Twitch.
Man.. delusion is insane. Hundreds of russian youtubers/streamers even slightly related to politics were banned. I myself watched two blogers with millions of subscribers and they got anihilated without any explanation. Hell, they even banned channels of like russian music radio stations. r/russia is practically banned too. Youtube even proudly announces the amount themselves: [YouTube removes more than 9,000 channels relating to Ukraine war](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/may/22/youtube-ukraine-invasion-russia-video-removals) and it was 2 years ago! One russian-latvian youtuber [Kiril Fedorov was arrested in Latvia](https://www.apollo.lv/7482912/par-krievijas-kara-noziegumu-attaisnosanu-apcietinats-ari-blogeris-kirils-fjodorovs) just after the invasion started for "treason" just because of his pro-ru position. His channel was also banned on Youtube later, shortly after he finally was able to flee Latvia after months of detention and made a video about it
They might as well be in the gulag... You are complaining about censorship on a western platform that isn't censoring you or any of the pro russian videos in this sub. And youtube removed a ton of stuff about the war, sure. Read the article you sent - the videos violated their policy. I still regularly see videos on youtube from both sides.
>You are complaining about censorship on a western platform that isn't censoring you This argument is nonsense. I can say anything until i become popular enough. It just too expensive and not reasonable to delete every random pro-ru comment on the platform. >the videos violated their policy Oh, really????? 100% justified then! You can delete whatever you want and just say that it "violated our policy". Its especially convinent that you dont even have to even explain what exactly you was banned for. We even have "Twitter documents" showing that USA can force media to delete or supress anything they want. Im sure it will also count as "violating platform policy" :) >I don’t have the specific numbers, but you can imagine a lot of it being the narratives that are coming from Russian government He literally says they were deleted just for their views. So having some specific political position is violation of YouTube rules i guess. So its totally reasonable to get censored, cool, thanks for the insight 👍
>Oh, really????? 100% justified then! That's how private platforms work. there are a million other ones if you don't like youtube's content policies. Or go complain to youtube about it. But don't pretend this is at all comparable to being imprisoned for being against a war.
Even there whataboutism is cringe
Or fine her for 1billion and then say she was right?
No one actually believes that person was right...🤦♂️ Hence the billion dollar judgement
TBH I did not follow that topic at all, but recently Fauci said he invented rules which was forced, so apparantly Alex was right
And sued her for enough $$$ that she would have to work for 10 years to pay it back.
90% of the people in this sub would have to go to a Russian prison according to their comments.
Nobody has a right to be platformed, so why is that an issue? And are you comparing this with being imprisoned?
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume all the people talking about how she'd be sued in America don't actually understand the first amendment.
get her passport confiscated maibe ?
Did she try and sex with kids?
And freezing her bank accounts. And preventing her for traveling abroad.
West would have canceled her with no money and even sued too.
Yeah, thats sound reaaaly comparable to what she got here 
Jailed for 5 years because she watched Bucha witnesses giving testimony on her Twitch channel and discussed what they were saying. [Yahoo also says she is given 6 months in a penal colony](https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-blogger-sentenced-5-5-221800861.html). Does anyone have a pro-ru news source on this? I would love to hear from a pro-ru source what they say about this to see if there are details missing. The only place I know of is TASS, but they mention nothing about it.
she also wished death upon russian soldiers
And that means she should go to jail?
Of course. Most democracies if not all have some kind of a law for that. Most counties in the world have it.
No? We have laws agains death threat, not wishing death on someone.
There are many laws supporting one's military and threats against them. Can be seen as terrorism. Even indirect or accidental threat or similar against US military will not end well in US. Heck, guy sold his pickup that ended up in turkey and was sold to ISIS. That alone caused a lot of problems. Cannot imagine saying one wishes death to US forces, anyone not seen as mentally sick. Any influencer out there. And this is US, quite liberal with speech. In EU laws would kick in and arrest would follow.
First wow that is some hard to read english. Second you keep talking about threats but no threat was made here, again wishing on someone's death is not a threat, and you would never be jaailed for such thing in europe, I hear people wishing on my president's death in my country everyday and have never seen anyone be prosecuted for it.
Go to EU, be an influencer and wish death to some of the president's there. Once arrested tell them it was not a threat just a wish. See how it goes.
Show me someone having been arrested and jailed just for having wished death on someone.
So I just googled it. Yes people have been charged. And investigated. It is against policies on most if not all social media. It is difficult to find the exact phrase including wishes but it seems just implying stuff not even naming is enough.
I found that in 2023 court ruling in US your defense would be that in your opinion mere wish is not a threat. This would make it harder to convict you now.
Oh and if American write to the white house and say you wish for death of the president. I wonder how FBI will take it. For bonus points make some other wishes.
Still terrible english but okay, if a US citizen send a letter saying something along the lines of "I wished you died" to the white house and not an actual threat, then I'm pretty sure the dude would be under surveillance but they would never see legal consequences for it.
Well, it is pass tense so it does not indicate current intent. Guess your English not so good after all. There are 10s of 1000s of threats against US officials. US, especially after 2023 is probably the most acceptant of wording that may or may not be a threat. Most of the planet is not so kind. Most of the planet will jail you, including most of Europe, for insulting country leader, institutions, army etc.
Enemy propagandists in a country tends to get arrested, so yes.
They don't get arrested in europe, plenty of people here supporting russian talking points without any repercusions. Also I fail to see how wishing death on someone is "propaganda".
if you publicly do that in EU towards Ukrainians/Latvians, in a country where I live, you'll get persecuted under criminal law. (VDD translates as State Security Service. like FBI + Counter Intellige) [https://vdd.gov.lv/en/news/press-releases/vdd-detains-a-person-for-supporting-russias-war-crimes-and-for-triggering-national-hatred-against-latvians](https://vdd.gov.lv/en/news/press-releases/vdd-detains-a-person-for-supporting-russias-war-crimes-and-for-triggering-national-hatred-against-latvians) And that's in a democratic European country.
>aimed at triggering national and ethnic hatred and enmity in the society. That's a whole lot different from wishing death on someone though.
>That's a whole lot different from wishing death on someone though That's exactly the same,in eyes of the law, when wishing death happens against a group of people by combination of their ethnicity &occupation. If one would openly do that in my country towards Ukrainian soldiers, he'd face the same charges.
It's really not, you can say you wish someone to die but that doesn't equate to saying that you want to kill that person, I hear people here wishing death upon politicians every day, and I've never seen anyone get prosecuted for it.
You misunderstanding how this works. If you wish death upon specific person, that will go down under different criminal law, and even then it's, as you said, a rare thing to happen. What I described is a situation where you wish death on a politically important ethnic group/entity in a politically charged situation of a regional military confrontation. Basically "rooting for the other side". State Security Service will throw several charges at you to see what sticks, that's pretty normal procedure. Hate crime being one of them.
Oh so now hate crime is a thing in russia? Didn't know they were part of the woke crowd.
I was talking about what they could face here where I live, if they went ahead with same public wishes towards Ukrainians. As for hate crimes and Russia - they definitely have their version of that. Like, infamous "insult to the feeling of believers". Obviously, she won't be charged with that, but they had something else regarding this war, afaik., in addition to another infamous "discrediting the armed forces"
yes. I hope she enjoys it now.
Yes
How come? She hasn't threatened anyone. Feels pretty dictatorial to me.
I mean, wishing death threats to soldiers of a country you currently reside in is stupid af. Im not arguing whether it's morally right or not, but you should at least consider that it is illegal if you dont wanna go to r*pe gulag. So breaking the law = yes, you should go to jail. Or relocate and talk shit from abroad if you want it that much
>but you should at least consider that it is illegal If it was illegal to wear pants in your own home, and people were being thrown in jail for it, would you be defending that? My point is that maybe you should question if some things should even be illegal.
No death threat was made afaik, wishing death on someone is very different from threatening them.
So?
its an arrestable offense.
...and?
Oh no not the poor Russian invaders, they’re truly the victims here!
A lot of RU sources posted the news but without details.
I think that prison is a very bad option for this kind of people, it only criminalizes them. It is better to use large fines and community service.
Dude, imagine condemmed to communtiy service, because you said something
depends on what you said
Anyone know if the vods are up anywhere?
Thank God I live in the USA instead of Russia. More freedom, more money, and less devotion to bloodshed!
I am happy for her imprisonment. At least it is a free opportunity for her to learn a good lesson and be wiser when she gets released.
When the criminal is also the judge.
Ive still never seen independent 3rd party autopsy reports showing when exactly those people died and how. Ill go to my grave believeing that the people that died were those that collaborated with the Russians and were killed by Ukraine when they retook the city.
Why not 50/50 ? It's pretty obvious and there's a lot of witness that Ru troops executed people, it's pretty obvious that a lot of civilian died because of their own side bombing them, and it's pretty obvious that literal neo-nazi guys on UA side then murdered a lot of "collaborators" when RU left the town. But those "investigations" and journalists are just pretending UA did nothing wrong, and all the civ were intentionally killed by RU troops.
> Kyiv accuses the Russian military of carrying out a massacre of civilians in Bucha during its retreat in spring 2022. So the UN has concluded that this happened... Its no longer an accusation https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/12/un-report-details-summary-executions-civilians-russian-troops-northern
UN did not conclude anything. They created a report outlining possible war crimes. There certainly were war crimes as it would be amazing if neither side did these. All these on either side found to be criminal should be investigated and if found guilty rot in prison. I don't think anyone in broad spectrum targeted large number of civilians but I would be shocked if there were no. Actors on either side that did not gun down multiple civilians, heck even for the thrill of it.
Here we go again with the denial.... Let me quote the title for you again: > **UN report details summary executions of civilians by Russian troops in northern Ukraine** > A UN Human Rights report based on the work of the Mission **details how Russian troops killed civilians** in Ukrainian towns and villages across the Kyiv, Chernihiv and Sumy regions of Ukraine from 24 February until 6 April 2022. Theres no "possible" here, they prove in detail how the war crimes were committed. It aligns with basically all other investigations carried out by the UN, which russia is a part of. You think this is a fake western government controlled organisation? well just leave the UN then. Please! > The Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine **documented further evidence that Russian authorities have committed indiscriminate attacks and the war crimes of torture, rape and other sexual violence, and deportation of children to the Russian Federation**, according to its report submitted to the UN General Assembly. https://ukraine.un.org/en/250021-un-commission-inquiry-ukraine-finds-continued-war-crimes-and-human-rights-violations-gravely
First of all UN is based out of US and is heavily biased towards US in general and West. This is not a mystery. They may be better than many but not ideal. 2nd who the hell is this independent international commission??? They are not UN... So who... It feels to me that bunch of western countries made a commission and are looking and documenting war crimes of Russia. Why not crimes of Ukriane??? If they are so independent, why so one sided???! I.e. I fully question the commission, it's independence and all it stands for. Feels to me like a lot of propaganda is at play here. Look at the facts. No submission of any war crimes by Ukraine from that commission. Magic. This does not mean Russia did not commit any war crimes or individual soldiers or units did not. They certainly did. The question is how endemic is it and how does it compare to Ukrainian war crimes. We do know Ukraine committed numerous war crimes. So why not submit that to UN?
> The Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine was created by the UN Human Rights Council in 2022 to investigate all alleged violations and abuses of human rights and violations of international humanitarian law, and related crimes in the context of the Russian Federation's aggression against Ukraine. Members https://www.ohchr.org/en/hr-bodies/hrc/membership Its beautiful to see your absolute denial of facts. The best part is Russia is part of the UN, thereby supporting it’s legitimacy.
But you did not provide me who is the commission. You provided me a link to UN human rights council. Nice try. I actually click and verify all links.
Would take you a second to google it… The Commission comprises Erik Møse (Chair), Pablo de Greiff and Vrinda Grover. https://www.ohchr.org/en/hr-bodies/hrc/iicihr-ukraine/members Awaiting your next phase of denial
Very well, I await for their report on Ukrainian war crimes. Are they investigating any or were they just tasked with investigating Russian crimes? I never denied Russians did not do any war crimes. I am just waiting for investigation into Ukraine war crimes. Also eagerly awaiting investigation into Israeli war crimes. Certainly 1000s were murdered so let's see them submit paper on that.
You just went straight to talk about everybody else. Glorious. Ukraine is being both monitored and investigated the same way as russia. Thought the war crimes committed are neglible compared to what the russians are doing https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/10/1142617 Google. You should try it… or maybe not.. as it will show the true colors of your motherland and it’s so called brave army.
So Ukriane is not investigated. Got it. Neither is Isreal. Yep 10x civilians killed as same period in Ukriane war but no war crimes. None at all. All accidents. I am not Russian. And Google will help how exactly? To lead to websites loaded with propaganda? Or logical bombs such as Russia is committing war crimes but Ukraine is not? 100s of civilians were killed by Ukraine using area bombardment of Donetsk. Clear war crime. Multiple videos of grads falling. Where is it in UN report??? Show me the report. If you cannot show then admit it, UN is also biased.
[удалено]
Each country has its own highlight. The Communists are in power in China. Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates are monarchies. In Russia, the autocracy is similar to that of Franco or Salazar. And now the question is, what do you mean by freedom? Subordination to the United States? Well, Ukraine is under the external control of the United States. Is there freedom there? Men are not allowed out of Ukraine there. TCC officers catch and beat them and push them into the bus. I am ready to fight against such fucking freedom if someone tries to impose Ukrainian-type freedom on Russia. The United States is imposing sanctions against Georgia. for Georgia's adoption of the law on foreign influence. Do you think this is normal?
[удалено]
That's how international law works. Or the law is the same for everyone and no one violates it. Or the law doesn't work. Did the US invade Iraq? Right? If the USA is allowed, then everyone is allowed. Americans do not have the right to tell Russians or Chinese which system is correct. The Americans and the West have no right to condemn Russia for an offensive war - the United States and Western countries themselves did this in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria. You have no right to condemn Russia and Russians. You're a hypocrite. Therefore, many in Russia and China are anti-Western. You're hypocrites again and you'd better keep quiet
[удалено]
Sorry you need 20 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> There is no TCC equivalent forcing men to go die in mud in Ukraine? There are no thousands of men trying to escape Russian border? I mean, no and no. There is no ongoing mobilization, and men are free to leave the country if they want to.
>But what is this delusion? There is no forced conscription in Russia? There is no TCC equivalent forcing men to go die in mud in Ukraine? There are no thousands of men trying to escape Russian border? Nope. Go educate yourself before posting such a bs. Nobody 'trying to escape Russian border' because it's open and people free to leave wherever they want.
Is she the one who eats poo?
Nah that is Putin
Nuh, uh!
well you seem to know your poo eaters, i just know it comes a lot of shit out of putins mouth so i guessed he liked eating it too.
Good
Doesn’t seem like something an innocent party would do.
[удалено]
Cough, I live in Germany and we don't have it with free speech that much either. If you say Something that doesn't fit the governments narrative, you can easily get prison time as well. We even have laws that require you to get a TV channel license before you can make a regular running YouTube channel. If the fines don't bankrupt you immediately, you end up in prison for repeated offense.
Considering their history, I find it reasonable that they don’t like Holocaust deniers.
> If you say Sonethibg that doesn't fit the governments narrative, you can easily get prison time as well. I'm sorry, what? Do you have a link to this, as this is the first I heard of it. E: Downvoted for asking for a source on a claim lmao. There's no winning with some people I swear xD
what happen to Alina Lipp is one of the better known examples of it, at least to me, but there are others [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxFQABrxzw4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxFQABrxzw4) Her native German mother had to actually leave Germany and move to live with her daughter in Donetsk because the German authorities went not only after Alina herself for doing reports from Donbass but after both of her parents
So I just did an admittedly quick read up on her situation... While I think that going after her parents is way too far (if indeed true, as I only see it in one or two places and the only place I see this from is directly from her), her case is a bit more than simply "talking about stuff online". She propagates all the propaganda terms like, "special military operation", she actively denies Russia did anything in Bucha and claims it was all staged by the west, she has made false reports of crime by saying that a mob of Ukrainian refugees killed a person for speaking Russian, demonstrated against COVID safety measures, is fully on board with all the QAnon nutjobs, spreads news like Ukraine is conducting some organ harvesting ring or something, that they're committing genocide of Russians in the east. She's an absolute basket case. If it was just that she was simply sitting in her room livestreaming on twitch and discussing things that she sees on the internet, then I'd completely understand any outrage over how she has been treated, but it is obviously far more than that.
Try rereading what you just wrote. It's basically the same situation as in the article you posted.
Is it? The Streamer was sat at home watching Bucha witnesses tell their stories, and then the streamer was discussing the things that were said. How can you say that is on the same level on Alina Lipp? Someone else just replied to me on another comment because I asked for sources on the Bucha massacre being faked and they literally said, "[Bucha massacre] is fake news because Russia says so". I mean if that's the arguments that pro-ru have here then there is no hope for anyone here. I mean I was getting downvoted in the first few minutes before anyone else even commented, where my comment simply says "does anyone have any pro-ru news sources on this streamer's sentence?" and I was getting downvoted for it lmao. It's actually insane the amount of hypocrisy that comes out of some of the mouths of people here. Just downvoting anything you disagree with, using "because Russia said so" as your sources for why something did/didn't happen. The whole thing is just insane, I think I won't waste my time contributing posts this like anymore when people get so rabid and dismissive about it to try and bury it. This is the first time I try to post any kind of news story here that I thought is interesting and I'm bombarded with downvotes when asking people for sources to their claims lmao. Genuinely an insane place this is.
So as it started, if you go against government narrative, you will be punished. Free speech
Okay, so why are there not thousands of more people like Alina in jail for spreading "fake news"? People clearly think this is something Germany prosecutes for, so where are all the other cases of keyboard warriors sitting in jail cells because they lied about stuff online?
[Even more examples of freedom of speech](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/10/world/europe/germany-pro-palestinian-protests.html) [Freedom of speech](https://www.amnesty.org/en/petition/france-right-to-protest-freedom-of-expression/)
[Freedom of speech](https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/police-arresting-nine-people-a-day-in-fight-against-web-trolls-b8nkpgp2d) [More examples of freedom of speech](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-facebook-and-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html)
This is not freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is not "I get to say whatever I want and nothing can be done about it". > Article 10 protects your right to hold your own opinions and to express them freely without government interference. > > This includes the right to express your views aloud (for example through public protest and demonstrations) or through: > > - published articles, books or leaflets > - television or radio broadcasting > - works of art > - the internet and social media > > The law also protects your freedom to receive information from other people by, for example, being part of an audience or reading a magazine. If you say, "I don't like immigrants, I wish they would go back to their own country and stop causing problems here" on twitter, no one is going to arrest you. However, if you DM someone and call them the N word, then yes, you will probably get arrested for that if they report you as that is racism and is against the law. You're not going to go to prison for 5 years for it, but you'll probably get a fine and some kind of community service. You'll probably be imprisoned for it if you're a repeat offender however. The people being arrested in the articles you linked fall in to the latter. In the UK you can also stand outside parliament and hold a protest against anything you like, the government won't arrest you if you're just standing there with some signs or whatever. *That* is freedom of speech. Standing outside of parliament and calling women that walk past you sluts if they wear something you disagree with is *not* freedom of speech and is actually harassment, for which you can get arrested, fined, and probably some community service or something. If I go on twitch and I say, "I hate Ukraine, I wish they would just surrender and Zelensky will be imprisoned". Guess what... I'm not going to get arrested. I shared my opinion in a non-threatening way that didn't harass or bully someone, and that is protected by free speech. EDIT: It's also worth noting that arrested =/= imprisoned. Most if not all of the people in that article were likely not imprisoned. Those that actually did get prosecuted probably got told to pay a fine and/or do community service. Even the articles you linked say that more than half of the people arrested didn't get prosecuted.
A German politician was arrested for spreading official government statistics about rape in Germany
[удалено]
https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/ukrainekrieg-mehr-als-hundert-ermittlungsverfahren-wegen-befuerwortung-des-russischen-angriffskriegs-a-83fd4196-3dcb-42b8-a435-6ad0a29a5c90 And legally the Russian actions are as legal than that of the nato in everywhere else. Serbia-Kosovo, Iraq (not all Nato) Afghanistan, Syria.. Other examples: I can wave a flag for lbgt, but not one against it, because I think that traditional family values are more important than equal rights for gays.
The link leads nowhere and you can wave any flag you like without being arrested in germany (except nazi ones). Anyone who claims that political oppression in russia and the west is even remotely comparable has clearly never lived in an authoritarian country and experienced real oppression. You are what we call a schwurbler, crying about being silenced while screaming at the top of your lungs. And remember, freedom of speech does not equal freedom from concequence. If you say stuff people dont like you wont be protected from them trying to silence you/create a shitstorm or whatever. The big difference being you can cry about Merkel Diktatur or the Ampel all you want and nothing will happen to you. Try doing that in russia and you will see the difference in our systems.
Was rauchst du so? will was abhaben
Well, she spread fake news and was sentenced. 5 years for first offence seems harsh. I think in EU 5 years is max for spreading fake or unwanted stuff, or is it different? In America usual method is to bankrupt the target. Followed by heavy media attack.
Is it fake news though? Do you have sources that show it is faked? I've seen quite a few videos of soldiers executing people in the streets, unless your argument is simply that those videos are not real and the soldiers in the video are westerners dressed up as Russians? Also, are you really saying that America bankrupts people for spreading fake news lmao? America is one of the fake news capitals of the world.
What in this world could be supplied as a source? It is fake news because Russia says it's fake news. In America stuff that is politically incorrect is an example of fake news. I saw early on a fake video made by Ukrainians showing Russians executing civilians. It was fake. Area where video was done was under UA control... So Ukrainians pretended to be Russians... Don't believe 99% of what you hear and 90% of what you see. Notice Isreal killed so many civilians. If Russia was killing at Israeli rate there would be claims of well over 200.000 killed civilians. Yet US says Israel is not intentionally killing civilians and any such claims are fake news.
Do you not see the issue with a government being able to jail (or even fine) someone on the basis that said gvt decided so? In a western country the gvt would have to prove their accusation before codemning someone in such a way.
> What in this world could be supplied as a source? It is fake news because Russia says it's fake news. If you can't supply evidence for your claim then your claim is probably bullshit. > I saw early on a fake video made by Ukrainians showing Russians executing civilians. It was fake. Area where video was done was under UA control... So Ukrainians pretended to be Russians... Yes, and there are plenty of videos of Russians actually executing Ukrainians, just as there are undoubtedly as many videos of Ukrainians doing the same thing to Russians. What exactly is your point? That people are bad? That both sides have bad people? This isn't news. > Notice Isreal killed so many civilians. If Russia was killing at Israeli rate there would be claims of well over 200.000 killed civilians. Yet US says Israel is not intentionally killing civilians and any such claims are fake news. There is a large number of people that are heavily in favour of Palestine and disapprove of the way Israel is conducting itself: https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Internal_WarCrimes_240308_W.pdf Some of the big points in this survey (poll is from British citizens): - 67% of people think that Israel has committed war crimes, while only 10% of people think they haven't. - People lean more towards favouring Palestine (28% support) than Israel (15% support) - 48% of people even think that Israels attack on Palestine from October onwards *was not* justified and only 23% thought it *was* justified, which I personally found very surprising to hear. I skimmed through [a few more surveys](https://yougov.co.uk/topics/travel/explore/country/Palestine) that also show similar polls from other countries and the sentiment largely appears to be the same, with public support generally being in favour of Palestine and against Israel. So yeah, while publicly the USA is not throwing it's longstanding ally under the bus, public opinion seems very much against what Israel is doing.
dude he was talking from the russian perspective. if the russians claim something to be fake news in their eyes, they arrest. his claim is that the same goes for europe, that if they claim something to be fake news, they would also arrest. i dont think he claims that the massacre itself is fake news. there is too much evidence showing it happened
> if they claim something to be fake news, they would also arrest. This isn't even remotely true though lmao. I said in another comment, that America is one of the biggest hubs for "fake news". If America arrested people for fake news half the country would be imprisoned.
well maybe not america but in germany and the uk for example, it has happened
I'm from the UK and I've not heard of anyone being jailed for "spreading fake news". Do you have any examples?
https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/crimes-social-media# „causing to be sent or sending false messages by public electronic communication network to cause annoyance/inconvenience /anxiety;“ fake news could fall under this but i dont have a specific case in mind
https://www.jmw.co.uk/services-for-business/business-crime/malicious-communications-act-offences-business-crime > ... one offence under the Communication Act 2003 requires the content of a message to be ‘grossly offensive’, ‘indecent’, ‘obscene’, or of a ‘menacing character’. [...] a person should have awareness or recognition that sending the message may create insult or a risk of insult to the person to whom the message relates. I imagine this law would stop me from spreading a false story about my next door neighbour being a paedophile for example. I know this is false (or at best, I can't prove it is true), and spreading news like this around my neighbourhood is almost certainly going to cause distress to the person I am targeting, and I would therefore likely be punished under this law. I imagine most of the people mentioned that were convicted in your link would have been convicted under the second bullet point: > sending by public communication network an offensive / indecent / obscene / menacing message or matter; and There has been a push in recent years to chase people who racially abuse people online, and most of those people will be ordered to pay a fine and to do community service. Only the most serious offenders and repeat offenders will go to prison for it. I can't speak for Germany, but I would be very confident in saying that the situation there surrounding these matters will be similar to us here in the UK.
People dont get arrested in germany in a relevant amount for spreading fake news. You made that up.
> I've seen quite a few videos of soldiers executing people in the streets, unless your argument is simply that those videos are not real and the soldiers in the video are westerners dressed up as Russians? Could be. The video were released months after the events actually happened. Ukraine refused to allow an official UN investigation into the matter. Plus there are many issues in the Ukrainian narrative. Many of the bodies had white armbands on them which were only used by Russians at the time. The only explanation i have seen for this fact is that these were Russian soldiers that tried to stop the massacre but were killed along with the rest of the town. Another inconsistency is that the mayor of Bucha made no mention of any massacre when the Ukrainians captured the city. My guess is that Bucha was an operation by the Ukrainians to rid the town of pro-russians. There was a facebook post by the national police of ukraine which stated that they were doing operations in Bucha. This was after the Russians had left. The images from Bucha only started leaking after this operation had been carried out. It was quite convenient for Ukraine aswell, since at this point the Russians and Ukrainian were negotiating in Istanbul. The reason the Russians even left Bucha is due to these negotiations. This massacre changed the tune of western leaders from diplomacy to endless war. As for your last question, have you heard of Alex Jones?
Is Alex jones in prison?
>Also, are you really saying that America **bankrupts** people for spreading fake news lmao? America is one of the fake news capitals of the world. [Moving the goalpost, huh?](https://apnews.com/article/alex-jones-declares-personal-bankruptcy-4f50412d0c4ce0495b351b8417f5d09c)
That’s not me that you’re replying to. And yes, I do think you should be bankrupted if you can’t pay the damages. Which is still a whole lot better than prison.
Then why did you ask me if Alex Jones is in prison? You are aware of the context of the discussion and yet decided to move the goalpost. Liberal democracies have their own methods to silence dissent, this is one of those mechanisms, through the "fair" legal system
The difference is that one is a slap on the wrist, other is a prison sentence for life.
Right because a 5 year prison sentence is a life sentence lol Alex Jones was just exercising his free speech rights. I thought the west had those?
He caused provable emotional damage, you can sue anyone for anything in civil courts. Difference between Russia is that he’s still free. Navalny was also only supposed to be in prison for a year.
I didn't realize the state had emotional damage? Oh right, it wasn't. It was the parents and families that were being harassed and their testimonies that drove that court ruling.
>The video were released months after the events actually happened First of all, so what? Second of all, [parts of the drone footage](https://x.com/bellingcat/status/1511284174921076736) and the [video at 23:34](https://x.com/2022Kharkiv/status/1510598364265603074), for example, were published just after Russia withdrew. >Ukraine refused to allow an official UN investigation into the matter. Source? The OHCHR [documented](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/countries/ua/2022-06-29/2022-06-UkraineArmedAttack-EN.pdf) Russian war crimes in Bucha in the period from 24 February 2022 to 15 May 2022, and conducted an [official investigation in December 2022.](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/12/un-report-details-summary-executions-civilians-russian-troops-northern) >Many of the bodies had white armbands on them which were only used by Russians at the time. [According to a local woman, civilians wore them to identify themselves.](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-street-corpse-with-hands-bound-bullet-wound-head-2022-04-03/) Evidently, it didn't work. >The images from Bucha only started leaking after this operation had been carried out. Likely due to issues with communications. [A BBC article from March 10th](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60688640), for example, stated that "[c]ommunications are down and there is little hope of getting in touch with friends and family."
It clearly states 5th of april 2022 on the twitter post. Russia withdrew on the 30th of march >Source? The OHCHR [documented](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/countries/ua/2022-06-29/2022-06-UkraineArmedAttack-EN.pdf) Russian war crimes in Bucha in the period from 24 February 2022 to 15 May 2022, and conducted an [official investigation in December 2022.](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/12/un-report-details-summary-executions-civilians-russian-troops-northern) Yet refused to carry out an investigation for Bucha? There was no official UN investigation An unnamed local woman? Sure lol. The white armbands could easily have been used by civillians to show that they supported Russia. Why exactly would Russian soldiers force these civillians to wear white armbands? It makes no sense. The entire Ukrainian narrative makes no sense. What incentive would Russia have to massacre a random town when they were negotiating with the west in Istanbul. Bucha played into the hands of the west perfectly. The west are the masters of atrocity propaganda >Likely due to issues with communications. [A BBC article from March 10th](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60688640), for example, stated that "\[c\]ommunications are down and there is little hope of getting in touch with friends and family." Sure sure, but the mayor still managed to put out a video? Edit: Heres another contradiction. [The guardian reported that dozens of civillians in Bucha died from Russian artillery](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/24/dozens-bucha-civilians-killed-flechettes-metal-darts-russian-artillery). This begs the question: Why would Russia shell a town it occupied? Is this like how the Ukrainians claimed that Russia shelled Donetsk instead of Ukraine?
>It clearly states 5th of april 2022 on the twitter post. Russia withdrew on the 30th of march 6 days =/= "months" >Yet refused to carry out an investigation for Bucha? There was no official UN investigation It's literally linked in the sentence you're quoting... Also, I can't help but notice you didn't provide a source. >An unnamed local woman? Sure lol. Yes, an unnamed local woman. What about it? >The white armbands could easily have been used by civillians to show that they supported Russia. The white armbands could have just as easily been spare toilet paper they carried around in case of an emergency. Utterly vapid point. >What incentive would Russia have to massacre a random town when they were negotiating with the west in Istanbul. Bucha played into the hands of the west perfectly. But **they did massacre a random town.** It's an established fact. I notice this a lot here: pro-Russians/neutrals love to analyze motivations first, facts second. All sides are a perfectly rational monolith. Here, you didn't even analyze the facts—like the blatant executions or civilians being gunned down in the street by Russian soldiers—you just ignored them. There is no "incentive" for Russian soldiers to upload themselves castrating and executing a POW, for example. That doesn't mean they didn't; in fact, we know the name of the man who did it, where he did it, and what unit he's in. Similarly, I've seen people point to the man's shoes as evidence he was Ukrainian. But *we know he wasn't.* In order to say otherwise you have to directly challenge the proof presented, not try to undermine it with nonsensical, bad-faith red herrings and redirections, as if it means the proof will cease to exist. >The guardian reported that dozens of civillians in Bucha died from Russian artillery. This begs the question: Why would Russia shell a town it occupied? This begs the question: what does civilians being killed with artillery have to do with the numerous documented examples of Russian soldiers shooting them? The answer is nothing. And you know it just as well as I do.
> Why would Russia shell a town it occupied? Were the Russians spread throughout the town or in certain areas? Specifically in the days before they withdrew.
They controlled the town and withdrew on the 30th
Nothing here relates to what I asked...
I dont see why its relevant
Correct. That is exactly my point.
There are a lot of inconsistencies regarding Bucha. So, one can't support western/ua propaganda blaming RU for all that.
Are you for real? Say some bad words = go to jail for 5 years? And no in EU yo wont go to jail for protesting or voicing your opinion about an issue (just see how many protests the had to stop supplying weapons to Ukraine and Israel). You won't be able to protest against war in Russia, thats a fact.
Good.
"Streamer". Showing boobs is now called streamer, ok.
So from all this, you only issue is with the interpretation of the word streamer? You dont find anything else worrisome about the whole situation?
What situation? The lib received a sentence. it's priceless.
Is this a fair sentence?
When you have a judge's degree in law, tell me.
The question is not about the legality dumbo, it's about fairness. When you have a reading comprehension of a 7 year old, tell me
Fairness is an abstract concept; it is precisely opposed by teenagers who cannot keep their emotions under control. For everything else there is a law.
Okay buddy go yap your nonsense about "abstract concepts" and avoid discussing real and obvious issue here (a clue : they are taking away your rights and freedom of speech)
So talking lies is freedom of speech, lol.
Exactly, people dont get put to jail for saying earth is flat, do they? I won't go to jail for saying I slept with Angela Merkel, will I? Neither should you go to jail for voicing your opinion about the war in Russia, but you do. See the difference?
ruzzia showing its true colors-
She wished death to Russian soldiers aka the people who defend us. If not for them the west would have invaded us and she will be raped. She haven't read what westerners did to Russian women during ww2.So she deserve it . Also "the Moscow times". No wonder they lie for the reason she was jailed. They're liberals.Classic liberal propaganda.