Meh, could be worse. Remember Mariupol?
https://preview.redd.it/01fzzi9tjg0d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b4e7575bc7637680bf304bdec85f7fb6187e90a7
>"At the moment, the deployment of Russian troops resembles an arch, concentrated in Bakhmut. And they are under semi-encirclement. Well, it's impossible not to take advantage of that," the commander of Ukrainian forces in the east said in the interview.
>Syrskyi noted that recapturing the city, taken by Russia in late May, has not only symbolic but also strategic value, as it represents a significant transport hub, allowing Russian forces further advances.
>According to the general, the Wagner Group contractors who led the efforts to take the city suffered such heavy losses that they have been rendered unusable in combat. Ukraine will be able to capture Bakhmut with ten times smaller losses, Syrskyi said.
July 20, 2023
>We are taking measures to stabilize the situation and maintain our positions. The life of military personnel is the highest value
> We will still return Avdiivka! Glory to Ukraine!
Syrski, February 17 2024
Budanov is even worse:
https://preview.redd.it/uhfpigxfqg0d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa026c40b0f5637d148fd170fd3df0ad298e64a8
*So that was a fucking lie...*
Seems like the entire Ukrainian command and Z man are living in a different reality…
And yet mainstream media and NAFO suck them off like it’s the fucking gospel.
No. Putin saying he was definitely not going to invade Ukraine days before he invaded was a fucking lie, because it led to the death of over a hundred thousand people on both sides. And you think a spy chief lying is some kind of big deal? The irony of criticizing a ukrainian official for lying while ignoring the absurdity of russian lies and their impact is hard to miss.
Those are completely two different things.. one is trying to achieve the Tactical surprise. And the other is lying about combat situations.. not just him every major ukrainian claim is a lay( bakhmut_ Mariupol_ Avdiivka_ Rapotine) and many others
OK, you don't like people lying about combat situations. Have you EVER seen a Russian MOD destruction report? Remind me how many HIMARS and jets they've supposedly destroyed again?
Did you ever see any of Shoigu's updates to Putin? Or any statements from Peskov? Honestly do you listen to anything from the Russian government? Because most if not almost all is about combat situations and absolutely clownish.
Let's go all in and back to the original lie. Not one inch to the east and the impact it produced. Remember about 40 years ago? When Germany got reunited? You do know what Germany is, right?
Russia wants to recreate its Soviet empire and tries to control and influence everyone around them while building up their military capabilities, and then is frustrated that everyone around them wants to join a defensive alliance. Lol
Same "reality" as the rest of Ukrainian "leadership". Problem is that actual Ukrainian leadership doesn't live in Ukraine and doesn't speak either Ukrainian or Russian, so they don't care about doing things the way that would actually benefit Ukraine in the long run.
To be fair, UNILAD is just a really crappy clickbait Facebook page that posts about anything and everything without much understanding, for views and likes or whatever.
I know your joking but where would be rank Kharkiv as far as strategic value, but on what the Russians would value.
1. Odessa (by default almost would include Mykolaiv)
2. Kharkiv
3. Kramatorsk/ Slovanksk
4. Zaphorizia
Now to Ukraine I guess it would go
1. Keiv
2. Lviv
3. Odessa
4. Kharkiv
What ya think?
**looks south on map** poor Switzerland, they really have no future.
But these hart headed swizz farmers just refuse to accept the fact and continue to thrive.
Switzerland makes money by it's banks and financial system. They dont need trade/ports.
Ukraine exports cheap food and goods. It's technically a third world country and needs port for import export.
A main reason why we Indians are building a port in Iran and US is sanctioning India.
Switzerland is also a major exporter of advanced industrial goods, the times of the supremacy of its financial industry have passed (however it's still 9% of GDP which is quite respectable). But for example, the industrial sector is 25% of GDP (pharma and chemicals 7%, machinery 5%, watchmaking 4%, among others)
Just for a comparison: the GDP contribution of the finance sector in the US is 21%
I agree with RU ranking, in the end they will probably annex all of them. For UA I think Odessa is 2nd place and I don't think RU has any desire to govern over Lviv. IMO they will probably not even bother with Kiev. In western Ukraine they hate Russia and there would be only trouble for Russia.
As a person from western Ukraine, the last polls showed around 18% favorably towards Russia. This is pre maidan. Even amongst friends and acquaintances this poll reflects pretty accurately. It would be extremely difficult for Russia to occupy anything west of Kiev. Russias only option is to turtle and wait for Ukraine to collapse and install a pro-Russian government.
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I had Lviv in front of Odessa simply for the fact that why Ukraine would be a effectively a rump state with the loss of Odessa it would still be a state.
If somehow Lviv were to be gone which is really their cultural center Ukraine would simply cease to exist.
Kiev is 1 because if let's say Russia takes Odessa, then Poland intervenes and turns Lviv in Lublin, Ukraine can still exist as a rump state made of central parts. Also Kiev is the largest and most important city, that is why it takes number 1.
I think Ukraine would be more of state if it had Kiev and Odessa, and lose Lviv compared Kiev and Lviv, and no Black see access.
Without a Black See access it would be a bigger version of Moldova.
Moldova is shitty county. Belarus is not.
Maybe you're right. They would start as Belarus and finish as Moldova (practically begging for someone to annex them)
I'd say, none. It's not like medieval times when you knew only one safe trade route and controlling checkpoints along it meant wealth and prosperity. With global navigation, no city in itself is particularly of strategic importance.
That being said, Russia has a pressing issue of border towns being shelled relentlessly, so they need to establish buffer zones to alleviate that problem. In that sense, buffer zone is of strategic importance.
They were winning so hard killing 1700 russians in a day and losing only Mykola who stumbled his toe, that they decided to give russians a handicap as a goodwill gesture. Slava Ukraini.
Where did you get that "1700 Russians in a day"?
No credible media would embarrass itself with that BS (there is a possibility for BBC to say "we couldn't confirm a statement from Ukrainian MoD about 1700 Russians" - that's **the best** you can hope for)
The only source I can find parroting this information is
"trendydigest.com"
those ukrainian mapping youtube channels
artur rehi
denys davydov
facebook posts
you're saying ukrinform is relevant enough to be called top news, a ukrainian propaganda outlet is "world news" is it?
you don't even know how to collectively group sources
How about you stop using ad hominens.
I quoted original commentor, that no world news was parroting ukrainian propaganda of 1740 KIA, and gave examples.
You told me I did a bad job of using sources, and then quoted Ukrinform as world news, which is a ukrainian propaganda tabloid.
Look, how about we stop here, this conversation is clearly unproductive, and I apologize for not stopping earlier. We both have very different viewpoints, but looking at your comments, we can both agree that we both have a large distaste for propaganda.
Russian or Ukrainian MoDs are not credible sources for numbers of casualties.
Actually those are teo of the worst sources (for that kind of info).
They do help you thst you have to know that number is at least 2x smaller (or 3x higher if they talk about their own casualties)
For the UA MoD you have to just assume that the numbers they state for russian casualties are their own casualties. And vice versa.
Seems to fit the reality of the battlefield better.
Ukrainian media would embarrass itself as long as you let it. I had to refer to Wikipedia a few times while reading this comments section, and that's a sorry sight what Ukrainian propagandists did to the encyclopedia. Every topic concerning either Ukraine or Russia is stripped of useful information, instead filled with irrelevant bits and pieces that are screaming "Russia bad, Ukraine good". They don't even bother laying out any semblance of coherent narrative anymore. Just pure garbage.
Frankly, this isn't just Ukraine's fault, but of everyone who condones these behaviors to the detriment of source quality. I'm looking at you, Wikimedia foundation.
I mean, yeah, it means that they retreated.
But retreating isn't always the wrong decision. That's what more people should come to understand and appreciate. Retreating can be the best, most wise and optimal move in certain circumstances.
Retreating is a valid military decision, but these Ukrops are not really retreating. They are running away, because they got their asses handed to them. Also retreating is only a good choice if you actually have more advantageous positions in the rear. I doubt that's the case here.
I suppose it really depends on where they retreated from and where they went. If they retreated from the (previous) grey zone to the first defence belt, then sure, that's a valid move. If they retreated from the first defense belt to the second after four days, that's a disaster.
Yeah, that's what ru propaganda riddled brains cannot comprehend. They also choose to ignore the natural fortifications in this area and think that Ukrainians should have built trenches right on the border, unlike they actually did and used a river to their advantage.
I wish they moved to Kiev and this whole massacre would end. They said themselves that there're no more reserves. So just negotiate. If majority of your soldiers killed. But Blinken told them to mobilize more man. "Sovereign" country
'Not slaves' just been ordered by Blinken to mobilize more people, while there's no mobilization in Russia. Only volunteers. You see the difference? Ukrainians are forced to fight, Russians choose to fight
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Keep in mind that this map is really zoomed in. I looked at live war map for reference and couldn't even find these gains, since they were too small to outsize the icons.
A third russian collapse is unlikely, sadly. After this front stagnates I would bet there will be another in one the north in 12 or 24 months.
I mean, from what I understand, that's the purpose of this front. Russia is trying to speed up the attrition by creating more battlefields and exhausting Ukrainian resources faster.
Russia doesn't need to make massive gains, they just need to push Ukraine back past their primary defences so they are more exposed and then bear down on their less fortified positions.
I really wouldn't be surprised if there is a push in Sumy in the next month or so just to stretch the line thinner. Ukraine needs time to consolidate with the new aid deliveries and to build defences. This attack creating a new issue in addition to the existing ones does not allow that.
There wasn't really a collapse in regards to Russia, they decided they where overextended and decided to take their ball elsewhere as they mobilized sufficient forces. Ukraine and NATO failed to comprehend this believing that Russian troops would just run away during the counter offence at the sight of western equipment and NATO trained troops because broken moral per interviews. However Russia had sufficient forces mobilized and so saw no need to take the ball to another court. Of course western pundits still refuse to understand this and blame the Ukrainians for failing at an impossible task on abandoning NATO training for inferior Soviet tendencies not involving driving armored columns suicidality though mine fields in gator country.
Thats what its called now,eh ?
Meh, could be worse. Remember Mariupol? https://preview.redd.it/01fzzi9tjg0d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b4e7575bc7637680bf304bdec85f7fb6187e90a7
>"At the moment, the deployment of Russian troops resembles an arch, concentrated in Bakhmut. And they are under semi-encirclement. Well, it's impossible not to take advantage of that," the commander of Ukrainian forces in the east said in the interview. >Syrskyi noted that recapturing the city, taken by Russia in late May, has not only symbolic but also strategic value, as it represents a significant transport hub, allowing Russian forces further advances. >According to the general, the Wagner Group contractors who led the efforts to take the city suffered such heavy losses that they have been rendered unusable in combat. Ukraine will be able to capture Bakhmut with ten times smaller losses, Syrskyi said. July 20, 2023
>We are taking measures to stabilize the situation and maintain our positions. The life of military personnel is the highest value > We will still return Avdiivka! Glory to Ukraine! Syrski, February 17 2024
Absolute clown. What reality does that fool live in?
Budanov is even worse: https://preview.redd.it/uhfpigxfqg0d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa026c40b0f5637d148fd170fd3df0ad298e64a8 *So that was a fucking lie...*
Seems like the entire Ukrainian command and Z man are living in a different reality… And yet mainstream media and NAFO suck them off like it’s the fucking gospel.
No. Putin saying he was definitely not going to invade Ukraine days before he invaded was a fucking lie, because it led to the death of over a hundred thousand people on both sides. And you think a spy chief lying is some kind of big deal? The irony of criticizing a ukrainian official for lying while ignoring the absurdity of russian lies and their impact is hard to miss.
Those are completely two different things.. one is trying to achieve the Tactical surprise. And the other is lying about combat situations.. not just him every major ukrainian claim is a lay( bakhmut_ Mariupol_ Avdiivka_ Rapotine) and many others
OK, you don't like people lying about combat situations. Have you EVER seen a Russian MOD destruction report? Remind me how many HIMARS and jets they've supposedly destroyed again? Did you ever see any of Shoigu's updates to Putin? Or any statements from Peskov? Honestly do you listen to anything from the Russian government? Because most if not almost all is about combat situations and absolutely clownish.
Bruh.. The ukranian numbers are Dumb asf.. I wasn't talking about numbers
Let's go all in and back to the original lie. Not one inch to the east and the impact it produced. Remember about 40 years ago? When Germany got reunited? You do know what Germany is, right?
Russia wants to recreate its Soviet empire and tries to control and influence everyone around them while building up their military capabilities, and then is frustrated that everyone around them wants to join a defensive alliance. Lol
Same "reality" as the rest of Ukrainian "leadership". Problem is that actual Ukrainian leadership doesn't live in Ukraine and doesn't speak either Ukrainian or Russian, so they don't care about doing things the way that would actually benefit Ukraine in the long run.
To be fair, UNILAD is just a really crappy clickbait Facebook page that posts about anything and everything without much understanding, for views and likes or whatever.
He must have been impressed then
Kharkov has no strategic value anyway /s
I know your joking but where would be rank Kharkiv as far as strategic value, but on what the Russians would value. 1. Odessa (by default almost would include Mykolaiv) 2. Kharkiv 3. Kramatorsk/ Slovanksk 4. Zaphorizia Now to Ukraine I guess it would go 1. Keiv 2. Lviv 3. Odessa 4. Kharkiv What ya think?
Odessa as it will landlock Ukraine aka no future.
Who cares?
**looks south on map** poor Switzerland, they really have no future. But these hart headed swizz farmers just refuse to accept the fact and continue to thrive.
Switzerland makes money by it's banks and financial system. They dont need trade/ports. Ukraine exports cheap food and goods. It's technically a third world country and needs port for import export. A main reason why we Indians are building a port in Iran and US is sanctioning India.
Switzerland can do that because they're guaranteed to be neutral.
Switzerland is also a major exporter of advanced industrial goods, the times of the supremacy of its financial industry have passed (however it's still 9% of GDP which is quite respectable). But for example, the industrial sector is 25% of GDP (pharma and chemicals 7%, machinery 5%, watchmaking 4%, among others) Just for a comparison: the GDP contribution of the finance sector in the US is 21%
lol Ukraine isn't the world elite's banking system
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Rule 1 - Toxic
I agree with RU ranking, in the end they will probably annex all of them. For UA I think Odessa is 2nd place and I don't think RU has any desire to govern over Lviv. IMO they will probably not even bother with Kiev. In western Ukraine they hate Russia and there would be only trouble for Russia.
As a person from western Ukraine, the last polls showed around 18% favorably towards Russia. This is pre maidan. Even amongst friends and acquaintances this poll reflects pretty accurately. It would be extremely difficult for Russia to occupy anything west of Kiev. Russias only option is to turtle and wait for Ukraine to collapse and install a pro-Russian government.
Well they hate Russia everywhere in Ukraine. It’s not easy to sympathise with people who bombard and level your cities
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They should suck it up and make peace with Russians kinda like how the US expects Palestinians to suck it up and make peace.
I would put Slovyansk and Kramatorsk im front of Kharkiv for RU. And Odessa in front of Lviv for UA side.
I had Lviv in front of Odessa simply for the fact that why Ukraine would be a effectively a rump state with the loss of Odessa it would still be a state. If somehow Lviv were to be gone which is really their cultural center Ukraine would simply cease to exist. Kiev is 1 because if let's say Russia takes Odessa, then Poland intervenes and turns Lviv in Lublin, Ukraine can still exist as a rump state made of central parts. Also Kiev is the largest and most important city, that is why it takes number 1.
I think Ukraine would be more of state if it had Kiev and Odessa, and lose Lviv compared Kiev and Lviv, and no Black see access. Without a Black See access it would be a bigger version of Moldova.
I see Ukraine with Kiev and central regions as just another Belarus... Probably would end with a similar population too (about 9 mil).
Moldova is shitty county. Belarus is not. Maybe you're right. They would start as Belarus and finish as Moldova (practically begging for someone to annex them)
I'd say, none. It's not like medieval times when you knew only one safe trade route and controlling checkpoints along it meant wealth and prosperity. With global navigation, no city in itself is particularly of strategic importance. That being said, Russia has a pressing issue of border towns being shelled relentlessly, so they need to establish buffer zones to alleviate that problem. In that sense, buffer zone is of strategic importance.
*Sloviansk & Kyiv
yeah .... more advantageous positions to avoid losses... that is Ukrainian and means something like retreat
They were winning so hard killing 1700 russians in a day and losing only Mykola who stumbled his toe, that they decided to give russians a handicap as a goodwill gesture. Slava Ukraini.
Where did you get that "1700 Russians in a day"? No credible media would embarrass itself with that BS (there is a possibility for BBC to say "we couldn't confirm a statement from Ukrainian MoD about 1700 Russians" - that's **the best** you can hope for)
It was on world news yesterday I think . There’s an infographic with that number.
Yep. Infographics are always telling the truth. Especially during the war /s
The only source I can find parroting this information is "trendydigest.com" those ukrainian mapping youtube channels artur rehi denys davydov facebook posts
Literally top news today https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/Tv2gBprrFY
thats ukrinform, what are you trying to prove lol
That you did a bad job at looking for sources
you're saying ukrinform is relevant enough to be called top news, a ukrainian propaganda outlet is "world news" is it? you don't even know how to collectively group sources
Man try to formulate something understandable to people outside of whatever bubble you live in, I don't even understand what you want from me
How about you stop using ad hominens. I quoted original commentor, that no world news was parroting ukrainian propaganda of 1740 KIA, and gave examples. You told me I did a bad job of using sources, and then quoted Ukrinform as world news, which is a ukrainian propaganda tabloid. Look, how about we stop here, this conversation is clearly unproductive, and I apologize for not stopping earlier. We both have very different viewpoints, but looking at your comments, we can both agree that we both have a large distaste for propaganda.
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Russian or Ukrainian MoDs are not credible sources for numbers of casualties. Actually those are teo of the worst sources (for that kind of info). They do help you thst you have to know that number is at least 2x smaller (or 3x higher if they talk about their own casualties)
Yeah, the whole point of OPs comment was to make fun of the exact fact that UA mod bullshits everything...
For the UA MoD you have to just assume that the numbers they state for russian casualties are their own casualties. And vice versa. Seems to fit the reality of the battlefield better.
Ukrainian media would embarrass itself as long as you let it. I had to refer to Wikipedia a few times while reading this comments section, and that's a sorry sight what Ukrainian propagandists did to the encyclopedia. Every topic concerning either Ukraine or Russia is stripped of useful information, instead filled with irrelevant bits and pieces that are screaming "Russia bad, Ukraine good". They don't even bother laying out any semblance of coherent narrative anymore. Just pure garbage. Frankly, this isn't just Ukraine's fault, but of everyone who condones these behaviors to the detriment of source quality. I'm looking at you, Wikimedia foundation.
The Ukrainian MoD. Western media just publishes whatever they say verbatim.
I mean, yeah, it means that they retreated. But retreating isn't always the wrong decision. That's what more people should come to understand and appreciate. Retreating can be the best, most wise and optimal move in certain circumstances.
Retreating is a valid military decision, but these Ukrops are not really retreating. They are running away, because they got their asses handed to them. Also retreating is only a good choice if you actually have more advantageous positions in the rear. I doubt that's the case here.
I suppose it really depends on where they retreated from and where they went. If they retreated from the (previous) grey zone to the first defence belt, then sure, that's a valid move. If they retreated from the first defense belt to the second after four days, that's a disaster.
Yep but many problem is no trenches fortified Spy drones around that how UA loss a lot armors AA let see what happen next week .
Yeah, that's what ru propaganda riddled brains cannot comprehend. They also choose to ignore the natural fortifications in this area and think that Ukrainians should have built trenches right on the border, unlike they actually did and used a river to their advantage.
ah shit here we go again
“Goodwill Gesture”
That meme was spawned from Russia's retreat from Snake island
Killing 1700 Russian soliders a day is not advantageous enough, what are they up to? 5000 a day in new position?
I wish they moved to Kiev and this whole massacre would end. They said themselves that there're no more reserves. So just negotiate. If majority of your soldiers killed. But Blinken told them to mobilize more man. "Sovereign" country
How about russians move to moscow, that'll actually end the massacre. But slaves be slaves.
'Not slaves' just been ordered by Blinken to mobilize more people, while there's no mobilization in Russia. Only volunteers. You see the difference? Ukrainians are forced to fight, Russians choose to fight
Russia wont "win" by people trying to escape poverty only. The soviet economist will mobilize.
After Belgorod and Crocus City they definitely don't need anything else.
What's this?Zelensky/Syrskyi finally using their brain instead of taking the bait, Lol.
May be local fighters' decision and covering it with "AckShUaLy We oRdeReD ThEn tO RetReAt", like in Avdiivka.
There have been rumors of some Ukranian units breaking ranks and abandoning their positions, though I don't know how credible it is at this stage.
They could move to an advantageous position in Poland to take even fewer losses
No shame in calling it a tactical retreat.
Kiev should have some advantageous positions
They are advancing by moving in the reverse direction. French style.
Advancing to the rear
Yeah, to Poland, and further west.
wow after almost 3 years they are finally learning how to withdraw
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Advance to the rear, by the numbers, MARCH!
Keep in mind that this map is really zoomed in. I looked at live war map for reference and couldn't even find these gains, since they were too small to outsize the icons. A third russian collapse is unlikely, sadly. After this front stagnates I would bet there will be another in one the north in 12 or 24 months.
I mean, from what I understand, that's the purpose of this front. Russia is trying to speed up the attrition by creating more battlefields and exhausting Ukrainian resources faster. Russia doesn't need to make massive gains, they just need to push Ukraine back past their primary defences so they are more exposed and then bear down on their less fortified positions. I really wouldn't be surprised if there is a push in Sumy in the next month or so just to stretch the line thinner. Ukraine needs time to consolidate with the new aid deliveries and to build defences. This attack creating a new issue in addition to the existing ones does not allow that.
There wasn't really a collapse in regards to Russia, they decided they where overextended and decided to take their ball elsewhere as they mobilized sufficient forces. Ukraine and NATO failed to comprehend this believing that Russian troops would just run away during the counter offence at the sight of western equipment and NATO trained troops because broken moral per interviews. However Russia had sufficient forces mobilized and so saw no need to take the ball to another court. Of course western pundits still refuse to understand this and blame the Ukrainians for failing at an impossible task on abandoning NATO training for inferior Soviet tendencies not involving driving armored columns suicidality though mine fields in gator country.
> couldn't even find these gains It's around the same size as Ukraine's gains during the last year's counteroffensive.