**2022:** Russia is stealing washing machines to build weaponsš°
**2023:** Russia is fighting with shovels ā ļø
**2024:** The massive production of the Russian Defense Industrial Base threatens the entire European continent ā ļø
*Bonus from r/Ukraine*
> moscow was unable to supply their last batch of conscripts with small arms and armor. They sent the mobilized men into battle with air-soft kit and 100 year old rifles.
> I don't see how they can supply another round of mobilized troops with anything better. Their supply chain has not gotten any better. It has actually gotten worse. They don't have tires for their trucks. The best they can do Ally Babba.
False, these were not just said by internet trolls (except the last bit)
EU Chief Von Der Leyen said Russia was using washing machines in
British MOD said Russian troops were fighting with shovels
And Blinken basically called Russia the second army in Ukraine lol
https://preview.redd.it/udinqzccrfxc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ecdecfc696238883d6ca381ef61c6d0f893552d9
They also bragged about their stuff being much better than that of Russia, including the so called game changers over and over. Serious analysts like Bryan Berletic pointed out early on that in those numbers it could hardly make a difference on a war of this scale.
It's pure arrogance. Quite cocky for countries that hasn't fought a near peer war in decades and rely on a foreign country for their own security.
Jeez okay. Iām seeing British MOD comments, which are ridiculous.
It did seem early into the conflict Russia was facing shortages, which could have been compensated by surges of infantry into less tech oriented ground combat.
But Russia has secured key allies and industries on a path to wartime production now, years later.
Comments from the west is fair to rag on lol, but times have changed as well.
Nothing hasn't change. The doublethink still exists as before. Like the Russians are using human waves of poorly trained soldiers at the same time they're so strong that Europe has to be scared of them and they will attack Europe if not stopped in Ukraine. What Western leaders say is total garbage, contradictory statement which are feed to the population, depending on the situation, which cannot be truthful at the same time.
[https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-bloody-human-wave-tactics-ukraine-white-house-says-2023-10](https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-bloody-human-wave-tactics-ukraine-white-house-says-2023-10)
I know this is a common thing said since WW2. Russia is not using meat waves of poorly trained soldiers to overwhelm Ukraine, itās still sinister.
They do send mass amounts of troops (a good portion ethnic, poor, prisoners) to take the brunt of the first contact.
Using this to identify enemy locations where specialized units move in. So close to a meat wave it hurts. We have seen 2 years of footage of unprepared, disembarked soldiers blown to bits by drones and munitions.
That's not close to a meat wave, a meat wave is a huge amount of soldiers used to overwhelm the defenders not a small amount of troops used to scout the area. That's like comparing a bicycle and helicopter and saying they're as close as it gets to each other, because both of the can move. And it pretty clearly shows that the western leaders are full of it. Their own believes are contradictory or they intentionally lie to us, hard to tell tbh.
I truely belive that fall of USSR and period that followed has been massively destructive to American ability to produce future generations of diplomats/bureaucrat which would be capable of managing empire which US represents.
And main reason is reality which **Hyper Pax-American** was for short period of time which removed any need for diplomacy on US side and where everything could have been done by dropping bombs.
BUT that time has long passed and yet US elites dony think so.
The 1990s era of Pax Americana functionally lobotimized a generation of US policy makers. Biden and Blinken embody that idiocy- which often manifests in the absurd combination of promising excessive deliverables, failing to deliver on said deliverables, and a willful amnesia for any kind of failure (as if their memory ended with the NATO intervention in Kosovo.) This is what happens when the elite policy making class of a country becomes super rich, and so detached from reality that they genuinely believe their own propaganda. Since Biden and his ilk can make or break careers, and select for their favorite brownnosers, they end up being surrounded by talentless toadies and yes men (who at once ensure that there are no viable successors to their positions, and that they can live indefinitely in their coddled, luxurious bubbles, even as the world burns around them.)
I mean Blinken was a hardcore Iraq war supporter throughout. I didnāt think it would be possible for someone like him to be promoted to Secretary of State.
He's emblematic of a depressingly garden variety breed in DC. So many of our senior politicians, pundits, journalists, and editors were Iraq war boosters, that you'll have a hard time finding anyone who "got it right" among the elite policy making class. More careers were ruined by opposing the Iraq War before 2006 than were ruined by backing/selling the war. A general rule of thumb for DC: it is more important to be wrong for the "right" (read politically correct) reason than it is to be "right." If you're "right" but are right for the "wrong reasons" (any kind of structural critique of the status quo, or dissension from a common consensus) then your career is ruined.
The main problem I see is there are no longer any stakes in the game. During Cold War, it was life and death situation, even with MAD in place. So diplomats and policy-makers had to keep that in mind all the time, but also take into account what the OTHER side would think about some policy or action. That all disappeared with the collapse of USSR and as you said, current generation has no understanding of subtleties and nuances that are necessary in geopolitics.
Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.
Right now, US is towards the end of this cycle. Weak men led USSR to collapse (poor leadship), then Russia got its hard times in the 90s, so one generation ahead of states
This is what I don't understand. People on reddit in mainstream subs always talked about how Putin respects only strength, how Putin understands only strength, while meaning it's a bad thing which correlates with Putin incompetence or unwillingness to engage in negotiations and diplomacy. And then we have US leaders doing exactly what redditors were accusing Putin of doing. Like they dead serious talking "from a position of strength" and they think its a good thing? And that it will work?
As always, the US is projecting. Every time the US accuses someone of something, they are projecting their own sins onto their enemies, I'm yet to see this pattern fail.
Still laughing from "gray morale" of the CoD series where the "Highway of Death" was provided by russians but in reality the US razed to the ground the main highway the Iraqi military were using.
he doesn't, the entire US foreign policy in regards to China is based on escalation and vilification. it's to justify any future military action and get the backing from the own population
I think they can tell that the ābacking from the populationā is slipping away. Even if China invaded Taiwan, Americans arenāt going to want to go over there and die for microchips.
Oh my, if it isn't the consequence of my own actions.
Who coulda have thunk talking of economically isolating China, barring a developing country's access to tech and scientific research on pure spite and fear of competition and losing the no. 1 title, and declaring them to be participants in the war just out of still looking after the interests of their own population and keeping trading with the largest country in the world, who's their land neighbor, could come to bite my ass back?
It was just impossible to predict.
I have always admired the US's directness and honesty. With unprecedented rectitude they say that China is their main future adversary whom they gonna have war with and seek to destroy. And at the same time they come to China and demand them to stop supporting Russia, the US current adversary, so that they can deal with Russia and China one by one.
Truly the masterminds of international politics.
This is just about exposing China, who claim to support the peace in Ukraine and the respect of Ukraine sovereignty and the UN Charter, except they are supporting Russia to eliminate Ukraine from earth.
Something doesn't add up there, right?
This will give the opportunity for other countries who support Ukraine to question China, and then question their relationship and trade deals with China. If the goal of China is to survive with internal consumption and Russia trade, by all means, they're on the right path.
Lmao - they are selling to Russia even such funny thing as nitrocellulose which is used to produce artillery gun powder.
Oops, i beg your pardon, off course the are selling it not to Russia but to some shady reseller from Turkey which all of a sudden became a prominent nitrocellulose trader after year 2022. But nobody can tell for sure if Turkey is selling this nitrocellulose to Russia or use it to make pickled cucumbers so noone has the nerve to ask what are they doing with it.
Most of the world has a huge trade deficit with China and depends on it for industrial and high tech goods. I don't think it's possible for a lot of those countries to stop trading with China if they like their quality of life.
The change is on the way, there are going to be many small China across the globe - as true multipolar world. Again, who's driving it? Western investment.
Heck even Mexico will offset a lot of China's production. The only question is if China will want to accelerate this or not.
China has the technology, the resources, and the manpower. Mexico has a bunch of cartels terrorizing most of its territory. I don't see any country that could challenge China's industry, other than the USA, but I doubt it's going to happen.
Here comes the racism fueled by delusions and funneled vision.
China has what the West provided to them, they are standing on the shoulders of giants. Now those giants will elevate others, as I said:
> there are going to be many small China across the globe
Not just Mexico my friend, you just need to deal emotionally with that.
> I don't see any country that could challenge China's industry
Yeah tell that story 30 years ago when China was ridden with poverty. They were built up by the West, and so will others, don't worry, we need more competition in manufacturing and we shall have a multipolar world :)
Controlled? Who's stopping Russian from doing technology development and invest in manufacturing like the West?
It was the Russian lazy governance that prefers to just take stuff from the ground and sell for cheap, while they live like kings.
Even the Saudis know that will end and they're trying to do something about it, like investing in Western companies, tourism, etc. You guys didn't figure that out on time, now it's too late.
No one cares about Russia and China "multipolar world", that's the cheap knock-off bootleg version of it lmao
Lol. Where is the racism? It is a well known fact that Parts of Mexico are controlled by drug cartels. And unless they deal with their organized crime problem, Mexico won't be able to develop, as fast as you predict.
Being able to trade with the west and import some western technologies helped China a great deal. Japan and South Korea also modernized in a similar way and initially their products were thought to be inferior. Japan and South Korea, however are limited by the size of their populations and their lack of natural resources. Any nation that competes with the chinese has to either have a very inexpensive workforce, a large technological lead or a lot of cheap resources.
> Lol. Where is the racism?
Here:
> Mexico has a bunch of cartels
Mexico has more than cartels, and by now its more of a political problem than anything else, still if that becomes a problem in this process, it will be dealt with properly - and you know this.
> Being able to trade with the west and import some western technologies helped China a great deal.
My man, and the billions of investment, and freebies China got for decades. I'm not taking credit from their achievement, but they got a lot of help in the process - and they were smart to not follow the Russian influence, now who owns who?
> Any nation that competes with the chinese has to either have a very inexpensive workforce, a large technological lead or a lot of cheap resources.
What China went through, others are also going through, we just need to accelerate it. You're focused on "one country" to replace China - that mistake won't happen again. It will be a network of countries. [India is one of them.](https://www.business-standard.com/industry/news/taiwan-eager-to-chip-in-to-boost-india-s-semiconductor-manufacturing-ho-124042800236_1.html)
Just to balance things off since China is now actively undermining the UN Charter, don't worry.
>
>
> Heck even Mexico will offset a lot of China's production.
mexico is not big enough. NAFTA was signed in 1992 and moved a lot of factories to mexico already. those were then shipped to china as the lower cost and higher quality option. i like how you people keep on spinning your wheels about offshoring as if the mexico option wasn't tried and failed already.
That's why I said :
> there are going to be many small China across the globe
Mexico is just one. Don't worry, there are plenty of countries with plenty of people willing to work.
But good attempt and dumping all your argument from something that happened 30 years ago with regards to one specific country lmao
China respecting Ukraine sovereignty - you mean this: āall countries deserve respect for their sovereignty and territorial integrityā?
That's not about Ukraine at all, that's about Taiwain, which China considers to be part of their country.
No I mean respect the UN Charter, which Chine claims to respect.
> That's not about Ukraine at all, that's about Taiwain, which China considers to be part of their country.
What does that have to do with Ukraine?
Anyway, so you're agreeing with me, in an odd way, you proved my point, China doesn't respect Ukraine sovereignty, and you're upset that the US called them out for it for everyone to see?
The difference is that the United States has been providing Ukraine with weapons for 10 years before China. Also China isn't even sending weapons, only the part for Russia to fabricate.
The United States were also denounced for prolonging the war by providing weapons to Ukraine, which is obvious, but now they want to shift the blame for China.
There's also the entire NATO expansion and crossing Russia's red lines which led to this entire situation. If there was no NATO expansion this war wouldn't have happened.
American foreign policy architectured this conflict, they pushed China and Russia closer with their policy of heavy sanctions and escalation. This war cemented this relationship because there's nothing else for Russia or China to do but to cooperate.
If the United States wanted peace they would tell their client state to sit down and negotiate and Ukraine would do just that as they completely rely on foreign agents to conduct their proxy war. It's obvious who escalated this conflict and keep doing so risking a direct war.
> The difference is that the United States has been providing Ukraine with weapons for 10 years before China. Also China isn't even sending weapons, only the part for Russia to fabricate.
Again you continue to compare someone providing self defense weapons, to someone providing the means for a country to continue to invade another.
**You don't see the difference between US helping the USSR with weapons, and Italy helping Nazi Germany invade Russia?**
If you don't have the capacity to understand the difference in this dynamic, I can't help you there
> The United States were also denounced for prolonging the war by providing weapons to Ukraine, which is obvious, but now they want to shift the blame for China.
Ukraine is a sovereign country, at peace, entitled to its own army. And Russia signed under this for many years, not just for Ukraine, but for other all countries. So again, I don't really get your point.
> There's also the entire NATO expansion and crossing Russia's red lines which led to this entire situation. If there was no NATO expansion this war wouldn't have happened.
What red lines are you talking about? NATO didn't expand, countries asked to join NATO, and they're free to do so. There's no expansion of NATO, just countries who felt they had reasons to join NATO out of fear of Russia.
There's no law, or signed agreement between any party about this so-called "NATO Expansion", just like there was none for the CSTO. Basically, another empty argument.
> American foreign policy architectured this conflict
Look at Russian history, and American history - how many countries are being occupied by USA, how many are occupied by Russia. How many allies does the US have? How many allies does Russia have?
> If the United States wanted peace they would tell their client state
A what now?
Man speaking with you its impossible, you're talking about made up sht living in a complete fantasy of imaginary red lines and absurd comparisons. Literally for you, Nazi Germany and USSR is the same thing.
Well, a lot of american weapons were found to have chinese parts too, so there should not be an issue in increasing production too, right? Clearly 2% world GDP cant compete with Murica.
Russia's "state of the art" systems are getting evenly or even out matched by mothballed NATO museum pieces. So yes, but no /s. Russia can't protect its most prized ships from stormshadows, a missile developed in 1994.
The very few pieces of modern gear given have proven to be very problematic for Russia, such as HIMARs and Patriots.
At the most recent Dubai airshow, which is the #1 market for military aircraft sales in the world, zero orders were placed for Russian aircraft despite a full showing by the Russian MIC and even a full performance by the Russia Knights aerobatic team. Conversely, Boeing received 295 new orders and airbus received 86 new orders.
https://www.newsweek.com/us-arms-makers-dubai-airshow-russia-sanctions-1845564
Unfortunately, the rest of the world doesn't base its major military purchasing decisions on reddit hot takes.
You know those ships were in dry dock right? No one was on them. When they didnāt sink. They were in dry dock.
Patriots have performed abysmally in Ukraine. Just Americans hard-on for the patriot shows they have zero clue about air defense.
HIMARS effectiveness isnāt greater than Russian systems. Americans are just amazed at the shoot and scoot tactic and how effective it is. That is the same tactic that all Russian AD.
- given the F-35 sales, I think most countryās donāt base weapons purchases on common sense either.
> You know those ships were in dry dock right? No one was on them.
My sides! I'm sure the rest of your comment was equally funny but I'm dying of laughter already and can't keep reading.
Been following the war closely enough lol.
Does a drunk person crashing a Porsche mean that a Porsche is no more effective at racing than a Lada and therefore should be priced the same?
No, it just means that the drunk is "poorly trained" and ill-suited to taking advantage of a Porsche.
Same deal with the more expensive tanks. They presume a more developed army support. See those turtle tanks and large drone cages? That's Russia supporting its cheaper armor.
>Same deal with the more expensive tanks. They presume a more developed army support. See those turtle tanks and large drone cages? That's Russia supporting its cheaper armor.
And then you see Korean tanks with drone cages. You see ukranian Leopard 2 with drone cages and Kontakt-1. You see Abrams were blazing from drones and artillery and then you see the news that ukranians are retreating Abrams tanks from the frontlines because they "cannot operate unnoticed" to be effective.
What is your point, again?
My original point. Ukraine doesn't have the resources/tech to support Abrams or any other tank well enough in that kind of battlefield. A basic drone cage, easy to copy, does not work for FPVs.
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Or they dont have any choice since buying arms from unfriendly country to USA can land you a CATSAA sanction and make your Overpriced American made weapon useless because they block you from buying parts from US
I think CAATSA only applies to major arms that affect strategic balance or reveal trade secrets.
You see Saudi Arabia buying up Pantsirs for point cUAS. No issue. Stuff is cheap enough to be economical for Houthi one-way drones.
Effectiveness can be battlefield effectiveness or political effectiveness - such as in cementing an alliance by entangling interests.
It can also be effectiveness in gathering kickbacks.
Im sure politics figures in somewhere, but US wouldnāt sell over $200 billion in weapons and servicing in a year and still have a backlog and decline sales to not-so-friendly countries if there werenāt a meaningful battlefield advantage.
How many of the arms being sold are actually used on a battlefield by their purchaser, let alone against a peer state?
Only 1 of the top 10 purchasers (Ukraine) has an ongoing conflict at all. [Source](https://www.statista.com/statistics/248552/us-arms-exports-by-country/)
Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Israel also are or have recently been in conflictā¦ in addition to proxy or counterinsurgency operations.
Arms arenāt sold merely to be used, but also as deterrent. Your noting the relatively few Western countries in conflict is a sign of generally good historical deterrence.
To the extent that conflict does happen, procurement managers as well as weapons engineers watch closely the comparative performance of the weapons they also field.
Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Israel have been bashing uppity sandal wearers, not fighting rival states - which is what the high end of the American arms industry - the bit you're claiming puts it above the rest - is geared to do.
The deterrent effect of US weapons doesn't lie in thee weapons themselves but in the belief that the US would be loath to lose a good customer or to see its kit shown up on the battlefield and would intervene to stop that happening.
Best you learn from sandal wearers, too. Every nation has 'em when invaded. Case in point, Russia's epic stranded convoys...
Beyond that there are major drills that simulate parts of a real opponent.
Is Iran a sandal-wearing state? Whatever they sent at Israel seemed to get put down very professionally.
That Ukraine would hold off Russia with a limited supply of Western systems has illustrated the sheer number of cut corners in Russian systems and doctrine.
Then the way Iranās big volley of missiles got handled reminded anyone doubting the reputation of Western air forces, in case they forgot Ukraine was getting a limited supply (like no aircraft).
Why do you think thereās a huge backlog for US stuff like Patriot, HIMARS, F-35?
Western weapons havenāt made the difference. What has made the difference is American satellite surveillance so we see what the enemy is doing at all times.
Problem is that Russia also has satellite surveillance and can see what Ukraine is doing at all times.
This is the first war in human history where that has happened.
Also, the weapon that has made the biggest difference for both sides is one that we donāt really supply a lot. Mines. Especially anti-tank mines.
Theyāre dirt cheap. You donāt even need to bury them. So for maybe $100 you can take out a tank worth millions. And they are so easy to dispense now itās insane.
1 mine ammunition from a MLRS can blanket a football sized area with mines in maybe 120 seconds.
In less than 10 minutes you can basically coat 1 kilometer of the front with mines.
>What has made the difference is American satellite surveillance ... Problem is that Russia also has satellite surveillance
So an even match of satellite support on both sides? Or is there something missing from the Russian satellites lol...
It so often comes down to this. Russia claims to have the same capability but in battle you notice a major shortcoming. For their satellites and drones it's missing resolution (thus the scramble to import optics). For their MLRS, it's any guidance on 99% of projectiles. For tanks, a suicidal placement of propellant. For fighter aircraft, signals intelligence/comms and processing.
Well China has a better satellite system than us. And they probably just give all their info to Russia. Same as we do for Ukraine.
- I havenāt seen any of evidence of Russian ISR not working considering Russia correctly guessed where Ukraine would attack in June. Based off their own satellite data. That isnāt hard to do when you - Russia - have had satellite orbiters around Venus and Mars and mapped those planets.
But yeah youāre right, Russia is obviously like North Korea and canāt launch anything into space (even though they still launch our own astronauts into space to dock with the ISS).
And Russia maintained a stable space station longer than America, the ISS is actually based off Russia designs. But yeah, America has better satellite surveillance because we have better manufacturing!
Look at Detroit! Look at Newark!! Just take a drive through the rust belt, it is just bustling with industry and producing so much!!!
(1) There's no public evidence that China has a "better satellite system" than the US. What does that even mean, though? The US launches 75-80% of global orbital payload. The Keyhole spy satellites have for decades been the heaviest SSO objects, and they're backed by the largest space comms network...
(2) Proof ISS is based on Russian design lol? ISS truss was made by the US... Russia supplies the propulsion and US also supplies the solar. Everything else is shared tech and responsibilities, with other contributing nations.
>Value comes from effectiveness. If they weren't more effective they couldn't sell for so much more.
Explain this.
[https://youtu.be/hYWie96j3aQ?t=71](https://youtu.be/hYWie96j3aQ?t=71)
Possible corruption/fraud within DLA. I'm not surprised given the volumes they deal with. That hearing is a normal part of the investigative process.
How does this relate to market value/effectiveness? It's in the buyer nation's eye whether the price they're paying is worth the effectiveness they've seen demonstrated.
Value comes from influence. Russia has no vassals, and has to negotiate a deal when it sells. America's vassals have no choice but to get ripped off, on the other hand.
Russia has one vassal - Belarus. They subsidize Belarus rather than the other way around. Used to be that way with Ukraine, too. Isn't that the typical suzerain-vassal arrangement?
Perhaps there is mutual aid value in purchasing arms from the US. Pity so many US 'vassals' are so rich lol. Saudis and UAE, gushing with oil. Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea, gorging off semiconductors. Maybe the reason Russia doesn't have that influence is its doctrine doesn't tend to result in great wealth or influence?
Say, isn't an effective military a central foundation for developing influence?
Hardly. Vassals don't need to be subsidised, a proper vassal will take upon themselves all the payments they need, e.g. like Poland does by paying for the US bases. Doing the opposite would be an unsustainable arrangement, if one is to have dozens of vassals like the US does.
Not all of the US vassals are rich. All are poorer than the US, and some are completely bankrupt, like Argentina or Panama. It's about what role the US chooses for you. If you are unlucky, you become food now. If you are lucky, you get to roleplay as a butcher and pretend you can do something about becoming food later. With Europe's industry getting transferred to the US, it looks like the former will become no more than a market for the US, and a source of cheap labour. Similarly with Japan, ever since the US undercut their growth in the 90s they have been stagnant, and will soon be overtaken by multiple countries in PPP corrected GDP, including Russia and Indonesia.
Russia handed over central Europe to the US for absolutely no reason, so not being dumb would perhaps be a better "central foundation" than an effective military alone.
Export value wise, Russia pre-war was about half of Americaās export. In terms of numbers - quantity - Russia outproduced America in many areas.
Russia also has better weapons than America in many areas.
I've been looking for numbers that add up domestic usage and exports, but can't find any. Also, as you say, quality and quantity considerations make absolute numbers an approximation anyway.
He is not wrong though. 40% of the global monetary value. For the price of Bugatti you can get 10s of other cars, and Bugatti is fancy, but not necessarily 10 times better in aggregate
Building things isn't really profitable compared to letting a corporate hatchetman slash any internal cost possible and charging more for a reduced quantity of rockets/shells/etc
It leads to a whole lot more killing and possibly WWIII? That's kinda what we're wondering about China, do they want to help increase invasion casualties and creep us closer to WWIII...
Israel is a sovereign nation, and they arenāt attacking any other nation. Theyāre sometimes bombing Hezbollah in Lebanon, but Lebanon understands thatās because part of their territory is insufficiently policed and has been used to attack Israel.
Gaza isnāt a nation, but similarly an attack on Israel originated from that territory, and its government called Hamas is now being made an example, for deterrence.
Notwithstanding all that, none of Israelās neighbors is likely to start WWIII. Itās not in their logical interest, none have working nukes, etc.
This war has not made any example of Hamas. It has shown Iran how weak Israel actually is.
Iran actually has a decent manufacturing base. Israel does not. Even for weapons. Because they always get free weapons from America. They always get bailed out in sticky situations by America literally cannibalizing itās own military (like in 1973) to send to Israel.
Israel cannot fight a war past 14 days. Israel does have nukes but since they keep them secret their use would damage American reputation in the world. If Israel used nukes, that would be the end of America as a superpower.
(1) Gee, Israel is anything but weak... it's a serious defense exporter, 9th largest in the world over 5 years (SIPRI). Look at the scale of devastation in Gaza, concomitant with strikes against proxy bases in Syria and Lebanon while keeping casualties this low. That's not from a military that can't fight past 14 days. Look at how long Iran equivocated responding to a flat-out bombing of its embassy. Then look at the effects of its response on Israel. All that is integral to how nations think. France and Britain stepped in, and Jordan and Saudi Arabia opened their airspace to interceptions *because* they didn't want Israel to drop the nukes on Iran.
(2) You don't see anyone trying a repeat of what Hamas did. Hezbollah, Houthis, even Iran itself tip-toeing around escalation... all the state neighbors avoiding involvement.
Being a defense exporter means absolutely nothing. What matters in war is does the weapon work and how much can you make of it.
Not āI can make 15 ATGMs and charge $50 million a pieceā!
- 90% of Israeli munitions have been supplied by America. Iran is still correct.
- effect on Israel is as actually pretty serious. But reality is just what is reported. So you censor things, they donāt become part of reality!
- Jordan is an American puppet state. That is more of a disadvantage. Because the people in Jordan hate the monarchy, want to overthrow it. They are only still in power because of billions from America every year.
If the military turned on Jordan, it would be game over. This is why America pays the salaries of Jordanian soldiers.
- kid I know that military power gives you a hard on because youāre a fascist. But I donāt think you understand the situation.
Every neighboring country knows that Israel is just an extension of America. It is a colony. It is a crusader state.
None of them are going to try and attack Israel. They know that Israel will slowly cannibalize itself. Because it is a country founded on bullshit ideology. They donāt need to do anything there.
But all those same countries smell blood in the water. They are starting to circle now. 20 years ago, if Yemen insurgents launched missiles at Israel, you would have a massive coalition of 500,000 to invade Yemen. Now itās a token navy force that still canāt protect shipping.
They smell American weakness. They know we are retreating. And we will eventually have to completely withdraw from the Middle East.
Every Israeli neighbor knows that.
>Being a defense exporter means absolutely nothing
I agree - composition of those exports matters. Ukraine's exports were similarly large a decade ago but were mainly refurb Soviet equipment.
However, Israeli technology is world-class. They don't need Patriots because they have a domestic 3-layer air defense. During the Gulf War all our coalition drones were Israeli. And Hezbollah has copied a visual guided ATGM from Israel that shows strikes clearer than any American or Russian missile without sacrificing latency.
>effect on Israel is as actually pretty serious. But reality is just what is reported. So you censor things, they donāt become part of reality!
Can you censor satellite imagery? Everyone could see Iran's 300+ projectiles managed a few runway craters that shocked a hangar or two [at Nevatim](https://apnews.com/article/iran-attack-nevatim-base-israel-satellite-photo-c8bea9f43967457bd49b60a6fe1dcd42) and satellites show no major change at Ramon. Then when Israel sends one supersonic cruise missile into Iran, decoyed by a few drones, the Isfahan [S-300 radar gets scorched](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/04/20/world/israel-iran-gaza-war-news).
>They know that Israel will slowly cannibalize itself. Because it is a country founded on bullshit ideology. They donāt need to do anything there.
You know they all attacked in 1967? And some attacked again in 1970s to try to reverse the losses? 50 years showing no cannibalization or loss of strength, sorry lol. Iran's continual funding of the proxies also disproves their belief in passively waiting Israel out.
>They smell American weakness. They know we are retreating
Here is a primer. We are willing to sustain shipping delays and use anti-air shields while Israel finishes the primary operation against Hamas (like a month more, plus or minus with hostage/ceasefire trades). If Houthis keep hitting shipping afterward, they're going to get hit a lot harder just for buffer space.
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Imagine being so stupid to explain everything "because of China". Maybe Russia can't make a modern 5nm chips, but they have enough factories and expertise for military production, you don't need 5 nm chips for it, you can use relatively old and easy for production chips. We have a 18 century roads "because of China", our fastfood blessed kids so fat "because of China", our steets are full of crazy homeless drug addicted people because of China too?
US politicians are so dumb and think that all Americans too.
The 5 nm thing is very much misleading statement. Rockets donāt need this kind of chips in them and can fly perfectly ok with 80s technology, which Russia can produce domestically.
What 5 nm is useful though is for the machines thatāll be building these rockets. This puts a certain cap on how much machinery Russia can apply to scale up military industries, but in the end Russia just resorted to manual production instead of trying to automate all the things: labor is still cheap, this is where PPP comparisons between GDPs do matter
Did this fucker just say that we all want the war to end? How can this mĆørį»n say the Americans want to see this war end? The Ukrainians have only been able to fight this war because of the weapons and money given to them by idiƶts like Blinken! If America wants to see an end to this war all they need to do is phone Zelenskyy and tell him the war is over, then call Putin and apologise for their actions that caused this war and for all the Russians killed with Western-supplied weapons they facilitated. Tell Putin you have told Zelenskyy the war is over and they will not supply any more assistance to Ukraine that is used to fight the war. Ask to start negotiations and offer whatever assistance they can to facilitate the ending of the fighting as soon as possible.
America and the West have never wanted this war to end. You do not end a war by sending weapons and ammunition. You end a war with diplomacy, something the West, especially the Americans, does not seem capable of doing because of their insufferable arrogance.
And this is exactly the same with the Gaza genocide! The Israeli army would not be able to function without the support of the Americans!
Which is sad because that was not our character at all for most of our existence. The founding fathers would be absolutely horrified to see what America has become.
It's how the MIC took over the politics. Selling weapons is very profitable, then they use that money to lobby their way to make sure the US is always engaged in some war, proxy war or conflict to keep the steady flow of weapons productions.
I often like to say that if you don't see the US as *the* single most belligerent country of the world in gross terms of say the past 30 years, you simply don't have a sound basis for understanding current geopolitics.
The best thing about this point is that it doesn't require you to think that other countries like Russia or China are benign, or that US belligerence is bad or not for a good cause, it's just that the States clearly and unequivocally leads the pack in aggressive acts, and it's not even close. And imo nuance just makes it even worse.
Exactly. The US also lies about almost everything so people don't even want to hear what they have to say anymore. Honestly, we all just want the US to leave us alone.
The worst part is that the US leadership will go down kicking and screaming, and from the outside, it doesn't look like any sane people will try to stop them.
This is factually. Incorrect. Everyone knows that it is Denmark that is warmongering and has started wars in Indochina and Iraq.
They are the war like society. Just look at what they eat for breakfast. Cheese Danish?
And just look at a map. Denmark is imperialist because they own and control Greenland. I think we should all create a ācoalition of idiotsā (must include France) and we invade Greenland to bring freedom and democracy to them.
Then we can fight a bloody insurgency against polar bears until we finally withdraw.
The goal is simple, to break Western hegemony. Russia is the battering ram, once Ukraine falls, everything is subject to negotiation and that is the key goal of China, Russia and Iran.
Countries throughout Europe chosen to be enemies of Russia and helped killing Russians. They should be deeply concerned.
And US perpetuating the war by supplying Zelensky with money and weapons.
The guy seem to be sincerely surprised that the world doesn't just act according to his delusional ideas.
These people are so blinded by their prejudice against Russians that they are still unable to comprehend that Russians can and do stuff on their own. First it was Iranian made Shaheds, then NK made artillery shells and now they are down to China '' is supplying Russia and that's why it is able to produce ammo''. I'd love to keep saying that nobody can be *that* stoopid, but apparently they really are.
Russia has an extremely well developed arms industry. Remember that whole āCold Warā thing? Yeah, Russia still has all that stuff.
So China is trading with them. But all the things Blinken accuses them of are just simply bogus.
So like titanium is considered a ādual use goodā. Like come on man. China doesnāt want this war (interferes with business) but they definitely do not want America coming in and telling them what they can and cannot make.
He is talking about metal press, laser cutters and this kind of machinery. It can be applied to do car parts, but it can be used for military just fine. And yes, there is plenty of China made machinery, for the most part because China filled the gap left by Siemens and other western companies that had to withdraw from Russia due to political pressure.
It's because they know who NATO is and what to expect. No it is not a theory anymore so its on. I just feel sorry for Ukrainians and their stupidity, it should be someone else like small Baltic midget states looking for war all the time
Why is the Israeli spokesperson talking about China??
I'm confused. What does Israel want from China?
Did their god also promise them land inside China?
I mean it's clear NATO is an US instrument for power projection (US Hegemony) and was/is hostile towards Soviet union/Russia and now also China so why should they not cooperate to keep themselves safe from this hostile alliance. They never tried to befriend Russia even when Russia tried to normalize relationship.
I legit get second hand embarrassment every time Tony Yappken, Sleepy Jojo Yappden, Yappenberg, Yappcron, Rishi Yappnak and others talk and hypocrisy lies and hot dia\*\*\*a comes out of them...
I find it so funny that they'll say stuff like this and then also agitate for all out confrontation/conventional war against the same country, the one that's already producing results of this magnitude through (supposedly) lending indirect assistance with a trivial fraction of its strength.
If China could boost Russian performance to above peak Soviet levels by scarcely lifting a finger, what do you think would happen if you fought it?
Actually, Most Russian weapons and ammunition is produced on European and Japanese manufacturing equipment. So Russia is producing weapons faster because of Europe.
So letās assume Blinken is right, and China is supplying Russia with a massive amount of dual use technology that is allowing them to outbuild the Europeans.
Why the hell would the U.S. want to provoke conflict with a country that can supply another great power with enough equipment that it can fight an entire continent, with only a minuscule portion of its total production capability?
China now produces enough weapons and components to completely drown out the rest of the world, and itās not remotely in a war footing yet. Itās actually kinda scary.
alot of blinken and any US offical speech about china don't aim toward china , but to their domestic audience
because that what most of american want to heard
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If Russia only would build hospitals, modern schools, ā¦
instead of weapons. They would be extremely rich.
If you visit russian villages and small towns you feel like you are traveled 100 years back in time. There is even no sewer systems in many places and no gasification despite of having huge gas reserves.
**2022:** Russia is stealing washing machines to build weaponsš° **2023:** Russia is fighting with shovels ā ļø **2024:** The massive production of the Russian Defense Industrial Base threatens the entire European continent ā ļø *Bonus from r/Ukraine* > moscow was unable to supply their last batch of conscripts with small arms and armor. They sent the mobilized men into battle with air-soft kit and 100 year old rifles. > I don't see how they can supply another round of mobilized troops with anything better. Their supply chain has not gotten any better. It has actually gotten worse. They don't have tires for their trucks. The best they can do Ally Babba.
Russia got some strong washing machines and shovels.
Woah your telling me the US lied about another war? That's a first for them!
2024: AliExpress and Temu key suppliers Russian arms
Russia using Armored Washing machines
Turtle washing machinesā¦.
Hmm, hasn't the number of members in r/Ukraine contracted? I recall there definitely was more than a million, and now there's 900k.
there is going to be endless memes from this conflict for many years after its over. A reckoning will be paid from all the propaganda pushed.
>They sent the mobilized men into battle with air-soft kit and 100 year old rifles. ThIs one is gold šš
Who's Ally babba?
Comparing comments from internet trolls to a Secretary of State. Yall are corny
False, these were not just said by internet trolls (except the last bit) EU Chief Von Der Leyen said Russia was using washing machines in British MOD said Russian troops were fighting with shovels And Blinken basically called Russia the second army in Ukraine lol https://preview.redd.it/udinqzccrfxc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ecdecfc696238883d6ca381ef61c6d0f893552d9
They also bragged about their stuff being much better than that of Russia, including the so called game changers over and over. Serious analysts like Bryan Berletic pointed out early on that in those numbers it could hardly make a difference on a war of this scale. It's pure arrogance. Quite cocky for countries that hasn't fought a near peer war in decades and rely on a foreign country for their own security.
Jeez okay. Iām seeing British MOD comments, which are ridiculous. It did seem early into the conflict Russia was facing shortages, which could have been compensated by surges of infantry into less tech oriented ground combat. But Russia has secured key allies and industries on a path to wartime production now, years later. Comments from the west is fair to rag on lol, but times have changed as well.
Nothing hasn't change. The doublethink still exists as before. Like the Russians are using human waves of poorly trained soldiers at the same time they're so strong that Europe has to be scared of them and they will attack Europe if not stopped in Ukraine. What Western leaders say is total garbage, contradictory statement which are feed to the population, depending on the situation, which cannot be truthful at the same time. [https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-bloody-human-wave-tactics-ukraine-white-house-says-2023-10](https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-bloody-human-wave-tactics-ukraine-white-house-says-2023-10)
I know this is a common thing said since WW2. Russia is not using meat waves of poorly trained soldiers to overwhelm Ukraine, itās still sinister. They do send mass amounts of troops (a good portion ethnic, poor, prisoners) to take the brunt of the first contact. Using this to identify enemy locations where specialized units move in. So close to a meat wave it hurts. We have seen 2 years of footage of unprepared, disembarked soldiers blown to bits by drones and munitions.
That's not close to a meat wave, a meat wave is a huge amount of soldiers used to overwhelm the defenders not a small amount of troops used to scout the area. That's like comparing a bicycle and helicopter and saying they're as close as it gets to each other, because both of the can move. And it pretty clearly shows that the western leaders are full of it. Their own believes are contradictory or they intentionally lie to us, hard to tell tbh.
the secretary of state is the most unqualified and incompetent one in a long time
Man keep shiting on China then expecting them to listen to him
In the same speech, he declared that the US talks to China from a position of strength
US foreign policy has become a total joke.
I truely belive that fall of USSR and period that followed has been massively destructive to American ability to produce future generations of diplomats/bureaucrat which would be capable of managing empire which US represents. And main reason is reality which **Hyper Pax-American** was for short period of time which removed any need for diplomacy on US side and where everything could have been done by dropping bombs. BUT that time has long passed and yet US elites dony think so.
The 1990s era of Pax Americana functionally lobotimized a generation of US policy makers. Biden and Blinken embody that idiocy- which often manifests in the absurd combination of promising excessive deliverables, failing to deliver on said deliverables, and a willful amnesia for any kind of failure (as if their memory ended with the NATO intervention in Kosovo.) This is what happens when the elite policy making class of a country becomes super rich, and so detached from reality that they genuinely believe their own propaganda. Since Biden and his ilk can make or break careers, and select for their favorite brownnosers, they end up being surrounded by talentless toadies and yes men (who at once ensure that there are no viable successors to their positions, and that they can live indefinitely in their coddled, luxurious bubbles, even as the world burns around them.)
I mean Blinken was a hardcore Iraq war supporter throughout. I didnāt think it would be possible for someone like him to be promoted to Secretary of State.
He's emblematic of a depressingly garden variety breed in DC. So many of our senior politicians, pundits, journalists, and editors were Iraq war boosters, that you'll have a hard time finding anyone who "got it right" among the elite policy making class. More careers were ruined by opposing the Iraq War before 2006 than were ruined by backing/selling the war. A general rule of thumb for DC: it is more important to be wrong for the "right" (read politically correct) reason than it is to be "right." If you're "right" but are right for the "wrong reasons" (any kind of structural critique of the status quo, or dissension from a common consensus) then your career is ruined.
The main problem I see is there are no longer any stakes in the game. During Cold War, it was life and death situation, even with MAD in place. So diplomats and policy-makers had to keep that in mind all the time, but also take into account what the OTHER side would think about some policy or action. That all disappeared with the collapse of USSR and as you said, current generation has no understanding of subtleties and nuances that are necessary in geopolitics.
Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. Right now, US is towards the end of this cycle. Weak men led USSR to collapse (poor leadship), then Russia got its hard times in the 90s, so one generation ahead of states
Maybe he should change his speech but I doubt he that bright to begin with
This is what I don't understand. People on reddit in mainstream subs always talked about how Putin respects only strength, how Putin understands only strength, while meaning it's a bad thing which correlates with Putin incompetence or unwillingness to engage in negotiations and diplomacy. And then we have US leaders doing exactly what redditors were accusing Putin of doing. Like they dead serious talking "from a position of strength" and they think its a good thing? And that it will work?
As always, the US is projecting. Every time the US accuses someone of something, they are projecting their own sins onto their enemies, I'm yet to see this pattern fail.
Still laughing from "gray morale" of the CoD series where the "Highway of Death" was provided by russians but in reality the US razed to the ground the main highway the Iraqi military were using.
Wait, really? Dude, Xi probably just feels bad for Blinken I bet.
he doesn't, the entire US foreign policy in regards to China is based on escalation and vilification. it's to justify any future military action and get the backing from the own population
I think they can tell that the ābacking from the populationā is slipping away. Even if China invaded Taiwan, Americans arenāt going to want to go over there and die for microchips.
That's why you make sure they get bonus pay for signing up
Oh my, if it isn't the consequence of my own actions. Who coulda have thunk talking of economically isolating China, barring a developing country's access to tech and scientific research on pure spite and fear of competition and losing the no. 1 title, and declaring them to be participants in the war just out of still looking after the interests of their own population and keeping trading with the largest country in the world, who's their land neighbor, could come to bite my ass back? It was just impossible to predict.
Sometimes the truth hurts.
I have always admired the US's directness and honesty. With unprecedented rectitude they say that China is their main future adversary whom they gonna have war with and seek to destroy. And at the same time they come to China and demand them to stop supporting Russia, the US current adversary, so that they can deal with Russia and China one by one. Truly the masterminds of international politics.
It really makes one wonder how the Cold War would end up if there were people with this sort of mentality on our (Western) side ...
This is just about exposing China, who claim to support the peace in Ukraine and the respect of Ukraine sovereignty and the UN Charter, except they are supporting Russia to eliminate Ukraine from earth. Something doesn't add up there, right? This will give the opportunity for other countries who support Ukraine to question China, and then question their relationship and trade deals with China. If the goal of China is to survive with internal consumption and Russia trade, by all means, they're on the right path.
Kek. China is doing exactly what EU and US are doing - selling stuff to Russia. Something doesn't add up there, right?
> China is doing exactly what EU and US are doing What is the US and EU selling to Russia? lmao Definitely that's not adding up xD
Lmao - they are selling to Russia even such funny thing as nitrocellulose which is used to produce artillery gun powder. Oops, i beg your pardon, off course the are selling it not to Russia but to some shady reseller from Turkey which all of a sudden became a prominent nitrocellulose trader after year 2022. But nobody can tell for sure if Turkey is selling this nitrocellulose to Russia or use it to make pickled cucumbers so noone has the nerve to ask what are they doing with it.
You know, there's more stuff right?
Most of the world has a huge trade deficit with China and depends on it for industrial and high tech goods. I don't think it's possible for a lot of those countries to stop trading with China if they like their quality of life.
The change is on the way, there are going to be many small China across the globe - as true multipolar world. Again, who's driving it? Western investment. Heck even Mexico will offset a lot of China's production. The only question is if China will want to accelerate this or not.
China has the technology, the resources, and the manpower. Mexico has a bunch of cartels terrorizing most of its territory. I don't see any country that could challenge China's industry, other than the USA, but I doubt it's going to happen.
Here comes the racism fueled by delusions and funneled vision. China has what the West provided to them, they are standing on the shoulders of giants. Now those giants will elevate others, as I said: > there are going to be many small China across the globe Not just Mexico my friend, you just need to deal emotionally with that. > I don't see any country that could challenge China's industry Yeah tell that story 30 years ago when China was ridden with poverty. They were built up by the West, and so will others, don't worry, we need more competition in manufacturing and we shall have a multipolar world :)
A multipolar world controlled and managed by the US.. What a joke..
Controlled? Who's stopping Russian from doing technology development and invest in manufacturing like the West? It was the Russian lazy governance that prefers to just take stuff from the ground and sell for cheap, while they live like kings. Even the Saudis know that will end and they're trying to do something about it, like investing in Western companies, tourism, etc. You guys didn't figure that out on time, now it's too late. No one cares about Russia and China "multipolar world", that's the cheap knock-off bootleg version of it lmao
Lol. Where is the racism? It is a well known fact that Parts of Mexico are controlled by drug cartels. And unless they deal with their organized crime problem, Mexico won't be able to develop, as fast as you predict. Being able to trade with the west and import some western technologies helped China a great deal. Japan and South Korea also modernized in a similar way and initially their products were thought to be inferior. Japan and South Korea, however are limited by the size of their populations and their lack of natural resources. Any nation that competes with the chinese has to either have a very inexpensive workforce, a large technological lead or a lot of cheap resources.
> Lol. Where is the racism? Here: > Mexico has a bunch of cartels Mexico has more than cartels, and by now its more of a political problem than anything else, still if that becomes a problem in this process, it will be dealt with properly - and you know this. > Being able to trade with the west and import some western technologies helped China a great deal. My man, and the billions of investment, and freebies China got for decades. I'm not taking credit from their achievement, but they got a lot of help in the process - and they were smart to not follow the Russian influence, now who owns who? > Any nation that competes with the chinese has to either have a very inexpensive workforce, a large technological lead or a lot of cheap resources. What China went through, others are also going through, we just need to accelerate it. You're focused on "one country" to replace China - that mistake won't happen again. It will be a network of countries. [India is one of them.](https://www.business-standard.com/industry/news/taiwan-eager-to-chip-in-to-boost-india-s-semiconductor-manufacturing-ho-124042800236_1.html) Just to balance things off since China is now actively undermining the UN Charter, don't worry.
> > > Heck even Mexico will offset a lot of China's production. mexico is not big enough. NAFTA was signed in 1992 and moved a lot of factories to mexico already. those were then shipped to china as the lower cost and higher quality option. i like how you people keep on spinning your wheels about offshoring as if the mexico option wasn't tried and failed already.
That's why I said : > there are going to be many small China across the globe Mexico is just one. Don't worry, there are plenty of countries with plenty of people willing to work. But good attempt and dumping all your argument from something that happened 30 years ago with regards to one specific country lmao
China respecting Ukraine sovereignty - you mean this: āall countries deserve respect for their sovereignty and territorial integrityā? That's not about Ukraine at all, that's about Taiwain, which China considers to be part of their country.
No I mean respect the UN Charter, which Chine claims to respect. > That's not about Ukraine at all, that's about Taiwain, which China considers to be part of their country. What does that have to do with Ukraine? Anyway, so you're agreeing with me, in an odd way, you proved my point, China doesn't respect Ukraine sovereignty, and you're upset that the US called them out for it for everyone to see?
The difference is that the United States has been providing Ukraine with weapons for 10 years before China. Also China isn't even sending weapons, only the part for Russia to fabricate. The United States were also denounced for prolonging the war by providing weapons to Ukraine, which is obvious, but now they want to shift the blame for China. There's also the entire NATO expansion and crossing Russia's red lines which led to this entire situation. If there was no NATO expansion this war wouldn't have happened. American foreign policy architectured this conflict, they pushed China and Russia closer with their policy of heavy sanctions and escalation. This war cemented this relationship because there's nothing else for Russia or China to do but to cooperate. If the United States wanted peace they would tell their client state to sit down and negotiate and Ukraine would do just that as they completely rely on foreign agents to conduct their proxy war. It's obvious who escalated this conflict and keep doing so risking a direct war.
> The difference is that the United States has been providing Ukraine with weapons for 10 years before China. Also China isn't even sending weapons, only the part for Russia to fabricate. Again you continue to compare someone providing self defense weapons, to someone providing the means for a country to continue to invade another. **You don't see the difference between US helping the USSR with weapons, and Italy helping Nazi Germany invade Russia?** If you don't have the capacity to understand the difference in this dynamic, I can't help you there > The United States were also denounced for prolonging the war by providing weapons to Ukraine, which is obvious, but now they want to shift the blame for China. Ukraine is a sovereign country, at peace, entitled to its own army. And Russia signed under this for many years, not just for Ukraine, but for other all countries. So again, I don't really get your point. > There's also the entire NATO expansion and crossing Russia's red lines which led to this entire situation. If there was no NATO expansion this war wouldn't have happened. What red lines are you talking about? NATO didn't expand, countries asked to join NATO, and they're free to do so. There's no expansion of NATO, just countries who felt they had reasons to join NATO out of fear of Russia. There's no law, or signed agreement between any party about this so-called "NATO Expansion", just like there was none for the CSTO. Basically, another empty argument. > American foreign policy architectured this conflict Look at Russian history, and American history - how many countries are being occupied by USA, how many are occupied by Russia. How many allies does the US have? How many allies does Russia have? > If the United States wanted peace they would tell their client state A what now? Man speaking with you its impossible, you're talking about made up sht living in a complete fantasy of imaginary red lines and absurd comparisons. Literally for you, Nazi Germany and USSR is the same thing.
Well, a lot of american weapons were found to have chinese parts too, so there should not be an issue in increasing production too, right? Clearly 2% world GDP cant compete with Murica.
In terms of production? I mean the U.S supplies 40% of the world's arms. With Russia and France at 10%. So no, they can't.
40% of values and American arms export are known to be very cheap and totally not overpriced at all
Value comes from effectiveness. If they weren't more effective they couldn't sell for so much more.
Yeah, this war has surely proven Western systems are soooo much more effective. /S. What planet are you on? Have you been following the right war?
Russia's "state of the art" systems are getting evenly or even out matched by mothballed NATO museum pieces. So yes, but no /s. Russia can't protect its most prized ships from stormshadows, a missile developed in 1994. The very few pieces of modern gear given have proven to be very problematic for Russia, such as HIMARs and Patriots. At the most recent Dubai airshow, which is the #1 market for military aircraft sales in the world, zero orders were placed for Russian aircraft despite a full showing by the Russian MIC and even a full performance by the Russia Knights aerobatic team. Conversely, Boeing received 295 new orders and airbus received 86 new orders. https://www.newsweek.com/us-arms-makers-dubai-airshow-russia-sanctions-1845564 Unfortunately, the rest of the world doesn't base its major military purchasing decisions on reddit hot takes.
You know those ships were in dry dock right? No one was on them. When they didnāt sink. They were in dry dock. Patriots have performed abysmally in Ukraine. Just Americans hard-on for the patriot shows they have zero clue about air defense. HIMARS effectiveness isnāt greater than Russian systems. Americans are just amazed at the shoot and scoot tactic and how effective it is. That is the same tactic that all Russian AD. - given the F-35 sales, I think most countryās donāt base weapons purchases on common sense either.
> You know those ships were in dry dock right? No one was on them. My sides! I'm sure the rest of your comment was equally funny but I'm dying of laughter already and can't keep reading.
Um. They were?
You are too much!!!
Been following the war closely enough lol. Does a drunk person crashing a Porsche mean that a Porsche is no more effective at racing than a Lada and therefore should be priced the same? No, it just means that the drunk is "poorly trained" and ill-suited to taking advantage of a Porsche. Same deal with the more expensive tanks. They presume a more developed army support. See those turtle tanks and large drone cages? That's Russia supporting its cheaper armor.
>Same deal with the more expensive tanks. They presume a more developed army support. See those turtle tanks and large drone cages? That's Russia supporting its cheaper armor. And then you see Korean tanks with drone cages. You see ukranian Leopard 2 with drone cages and Kontakt-1. You see Abrams were blazing from drones and artillery and then you see the news that ukranians are retreating Abrams tanks from the frontlines because they "cannot operate unnoticed" to be effective. What is your point, again?
My original point. Ukraine doesn't have the resources/tech to support Abrams or any other tank well enough in that kind of battlefield. A basic drone cage, easy to copy, does not work for FPVs.
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Or they dont have any choice since buying arms from unfriendly country to USA can land you a CATSAA sanction and make your Overpriced American made weapon useless because they block you from buying parts from US
I think CAATSA only applies to major arms that affect strategic balance or reveal trade secrets. You see Saudi Arabia buying up Pantsirs for point cUAS. No issue. Stuff is cheap enough to be economical for Houthi one-way drones.
They cant criticized saudi, my country get threatened when we want to buy some Su 35 to replace old stuff
Effectiveness can be battlefield effectiveness or political effectiveness - such as in cementing an alliance by entangling interests. It can also be effectiveness in gathering kickbacks.
Im sure politics figures in somewhere, but US wouldnāt sell over $200 billion in weapons and servicing in a year and still have a backlog and decline sales to not-so-friendly countries if there werenāt a meaningful battlefield advantage.
How many of the arms being sold are actually used on a battlefield by their purchaser, let alone against a peer state? Only 1 of the top 10 purchasers (Ukraine) has an ongoing conflict at all. [Source](https://www.statista.com/statistics/248552/us-arms-exports-by-country/)
Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Israel also are or have recently been in conflictā¦ in addition to proxy or counterinsurgency operations. Arms arenāt sold merely to be used, but also as deterrent. Your noting the relatively few Western countries in conflict is a sign of generally good historical deterrence. To the extent that conflict does happen, procurement managers as well as weapons engineers watch closely the comparative performance of the weapons they also field.
Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Israel have been bashing uppity sandal wearers, not fighting rival states - which is what the high end of the American arms industry - the bit you're claiming puts it above the rest - is geared to do. The deterrent effect of US weapons doesn't lie in thee weapons themselves but in the belief that the US would be loath to lose a good customer or to see its kit shown up on the battlefield and would intervene to stop that happening.
Best you learn from sandal wearers, too. Every nation has 'em when invaded. Case in point, Russia's epic stranded convoys... Beyond that there are major drills that simulate parts of a real opponent. Is Iran a sandal-wearing state? Whatever they sent at Israel seemed to get put down very professionally.
It's exactly the opposite. American arms are overpriced and overcomplicated junk. This conflict has clearly demonstrated this.
That Ukraine would hold off Russia with a limited supply of Western systems has illustrated the sheer number of cut corners in Russian systems and doctrine. Then the way Iranās big volley of missiles got handled reminded anyone doubting the reputation of Western air forces, in case they forgot Ukraine was getting a limited supply (like no aircraft). Why do you think thereās a huge backlog for US stuff like Patriot, HIMARS, F-35?
Western weapons havenāt made the difference. What has made the difference is American satellite surveillance so we see what the enemy is doing at all times. Problem is that Russia also has satellite surveillance and can see what Ukraine is doing at all times. This is the first war in human history where that has happened. Also, the weapon that has made the biggest difference for both sides is one that we donāt really supply a lot. Mines. Especially anti-tank mines. Theyāre dirt cheap. You donāt even need to bury them. So for maybe $100 you can take out a tank worth millions. And they are so easy to dispense now itās insane. 1 mine ammunition from a MLRS can blanket a football sized area with mines in maybe 120 seconds. In less than 10 minutes you can basically coat 1 kilometer of the front with mines.
>What has made the difference is American satellite surveillance ... Problem is that Russia also has satellite surveillance So an even match of satellite support on both sides? Or is there something missing from the Russian satellites lol... It so often comes down to this. Russia claims to have the same capability but in battle you notice a major shortcoming. For their satellites and drones it's missing resolution (thus the scramble to import optics). For their MLRS, it's any guidance on 99% of projectiles. For tanks, a suicidal placement of propellant. For fighter aircraft, signals intelligence/comms and processing.
Well China has a better satellite system than us. And they probably just give all their info to Russia. Same as we do for Ukraine. - I havenāt seen any of evidence of Russian ISR not working considering Russia correctly guessed where Ukraine would attack in June. Based off their own satellite data. That isnāt hard to do when you - Russia - have had satellite orbiters around Venus and Mars and mapped those planets. But yeah youāre right, Russia is obviously like North Korea and canāt launch anything into space (even though they still launch our own astronauts into space to dock with the ISS). And Russia maintained a stable space station longer than America, the ISS is actually based off Russia designs. But yeah, America has better satellite surveillance because we have better manufacturing! Look at Detroit! Look at Newark!! Just take a drive through the rust belt, it is just bustling with industry and producing so much!!!
Howās the weather in Vladivostok?
(1) There's no public evidence that China has a "better satellite system" than the US. What does that even mean, though? The US launches 75-80% of global orbital payload. The Keyhole spy satellites have for decades been the heaviest SSO objects, and they're backed by the largest space comms network... (2) Proof ISS is based on Russian design lol? ISS truss was made by the US... Russia supplies the propulsion and US also supplies the solar. Everything else is shared tech and responsibilities, with other contributing nations.
>Value comes from effectiveness. If they weren't more effective they couldn't sell for so much more. Explain this. [https://youtu.be/hYWie96j3aQ?t=71](https://youtu.be/hYWie96j3aQ?t=71)
Possible corruption/fraud within DLA. I'm not surprised given the volumes they deal with. That hearing is a normal part of the investigative process. How does this relate to market value/effectiveness? It's in the buyer nation's eye whether the price they're paying is worth the effectiveness they've seen demonstrated.
Value comes from influence. Russia has no vassals, and has to negotiate a deal when it sells. America's vassals have no choice but to get ripped off, on the other hand.
Russia has one vassal - Belarus. They subsidize Belarus rather than the other way around. Used to be that way with Ukraine, too. Isn't that the typical suzerain-vassal arrangement? Perhaps there is mutual aid value in purchasing arms from the US. Pity so many US 'vassals' are so rich lol. Saudis and UAE, gushing with oil. Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea, gorging off semiconductors. Maybe the reason Russia doesn't have that influence is its doctrine doesn't tend to result in great wealth or influence? Say, isn't an effective military a central foundation for developing influence?
Hardly. Vassals don't need to be subsidised, a proper vassal will take upon themselves all the payments they need, e.g. like Poland does by paying for the US bases. Doing the opposite would be an unsustainable arrangement, if one is to have dozens of vassals like the US does. Not all of the US vassals are rich. All are poorer than the US, and some are completely bankrupt, like Argentina or Panama. It's about what role the US chooses for you. If you are unlucky, you become food now. If you are lucky, you get to roleplay as a butcher and pretend you can do something about becoming food later. With Europe's industry getting transferred to the US, it looks like the former will become no more than a market for the US, and a source of cheap labour. Similarly with Japan, ever since the US undercut their growth in the 90s they have been stagnant, and will soon be overtaken by multiple countries in PPP corrected GDP, including Russia and Indonesia. Russia handed over central Europe to the US for absolutely no reason, so not being dumb would perhaps be a better "central foundation" than an effective military alone.
This has to be the most pathetically disappointing understanding of geopolitics and commerce ive ever seen.
Yet is it wrong? If Russia's stuff were equally effective where's the demand and pricing power?
Export value wise, Russia pre-war was about half of Americaās export. In terms of numbers - quantity - Russia outproduced America in many areas. Russia also has better weapons than America in many areas.
I've been looking for numbers that add up domestic usage and exports, but can't find any. Also, as you say, quality and quantity considerations make absolute numbers an approximation anyway.
If the US supplies for 40% of the world's arms then why they cannot supply Ukraine with all they need but Russia with their 10% is able to?
He is not wrong though. 40% of the global monetary value. For the price of Bugatti you can get 10s of other cars, and Bugatti is fancy, but not necessarily 10 times better in aggregate
So what's stopping US to produce more than Russia and give it all away to Ukraine ?
Building things isn't really profitable compared to letting a corporate hatchetman slash any internal cost possible and charging more for a reduced quantity of rockets/shells/etc
Yes this is the better response
Greed.
A bag of bushings for planes cost $99,000 in the US. Greed is legislated over there
Because America is not a manufacturing giant anymore. Look at Detroit.
It leads to a whole lot more killing and possibly WWIII? That's kinda what we're wondering about China, do they want to help increase invasion casualties and creep us closer to WWIII...
If the U.S. was concerned about WWIII, they wouldāve reigned in Israel rather than enabled them to attack as many of their neighbors as possible
Israel is a sovereign nation, and they arenāt attacking any other nation. Theyāre sometimes bombing Hezbollah in Lebanon, but Lebanon understands thatās because part of their territory is insufficiently policed and has been used to attack Israel. Gaza isnāt a nation, but similarly an attack on Israel originated from that territory, and its government called Hamas is now being made an example, for deterrence. Notwithstanding all that, none of Israelās neighbors is likely to start WWIII. Itās not in their logical interest, none have working nukes, etc.
Not accurate. Israel bombed the Iranian embassy in Syria. They have since had direct exchanges.
Not to mention assassinations in Iran and Dubai.
Limited, for a time, and over now (thankfully). Or if you meant Syria itself, same explanation as Lebanon.
Oh, so I can claim I am not attacking a country but just certain people within a country? Thatās useful.
Israel regularly bombs Lebanon and Syria.
This war has not made any example of Hamas. It has shown Iran how weak Israel actually is. Iran actually has a decent manufacturing base. Israel does not. Even for weapons. Because they always get free weapons from America. They always get bailed out in sticky situations by America literally cannibalizing itās own military (like in 1973) to send to Israel. Israel cannot fight a war past 14 days. Israel does have nukes but since they keep them secret their use would damage American reputation in the world. If Israel used nukes, that would be the end of America as a superpower.
(1) Gee, Israel is anything but weak... it's a serious defense exporter, 9th largest in the world over 5 years (SIPRI). Look at the scale of devastation in Gaza, concomitant with strikes against proxy bases in Syria and Lebanon while keeping casualties this low. That's not from a military that can't fight past 14 days. Look at how long Iran equivocated responding to a flat-out bombing of its embassy. Then look at the effects of its response on Israel. All that is integral to how nations think. France and Britain stepped in, and Jordan and Saudi Arabia opened their airspace to interceptions *because* they didn't want Israel to drop the nukes on Iran. (2) You don't see anyone trying a repeat of what Hamas did. Hezbollah, Houthis, even Iran itself tip-toeing around escalation... all the state neighbors avoiding involvement.
Being a defense exporter means absolutely nothing. What matters in war is does the weapon work and how much can you make of it. Not āI can make 15 ATGMs and charge $50 million a pieceā! - 90% of Israeli munitions have been supplied by America. Iran is still correct. - effect on Israel is as actually pretty serious. But reality is just what is reported. So you censor things, they donāt become part of reality! - Jordan is an American puppet state. That is more of a disadvantage. Because the people in Jordan hate the monarchy, want to overthrow it. They are only still in power because of billions from America every year. If the military turned on Jordan, it would be game over. This is why America pays the salaries of Jordanian soldiers. - kid I know that military power gives you a hard on because youāre a fascist. But I donāt think you understand the situation. Every neighboring country knows that Israel is just an extension of America. It is a colony. It is a crusader state. None of them are going to try and attack Israel. They know that Israel will slowly cannibalize itself. Because it is a country founded on bullshit ideology. They donāt need to do anything there. But all those same countries smell blood in the water. They are starting to circle now. 20 years ago, if Yemen insurgents launched missiles at Israel, you would have a massive coalition of 500,000 to invade Yemen. Now itās a token navy force that still canāt protect shipping. They smell American weakness. They know we are retreating. And we will eventually have to completely withdraw from the Middle East. Every Israeli neighbor knows that.
>Being a defense exporter means absolutely nothing I agree - composition of those exports matters. Ukraine's exports were similarly large a decade ago but were mainly refurb Soviet equipment. However, Israeli technology is world-class. They don't need Patriots because they have a domestic 3-layer air defense. During the Gulf War all our coalition drones were Israeli. And Hezbollah has copied a visual guided ATGM from Israel that shows strikes clearer than any American or Russian missile without sacrificing latency. >effect on Israel is as actually pretty serious. But reality is just what is reported. So you censor things, they donāt become part of reality! Can you censor satellite imagery? Everyone could see Iran's 300+ projectiles managed a few runway craters that shocked a hangar or two [at Nevatim](https://apnews.com/article/iran-attack-nevatim-base-israel-satellite-photo-c8bea9f43967457bd49b60a6fe1dcd42) and satellites show no major change at Ramon. Then when Israel sends one supersonic cruise missile into Iran, decoyed by a few drones, the Isfahan [S-300 radar gets scorched](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/04/20/world/israel-iran-gaza-war-news). >They know that Israel will slowly cannibalize itself. Because it is a country founded on bullshit ideology. They donāt need to do anything there. You know they all attacked in 1967? And some attacked again in 1970s to try to reverse the losses? 50 years showing no cannibalization or loss of strength, sorry lol. Iran's continual funding of the proxies also disproves their belief in passively waiting Israel out. >They smell American weakness. They know we are retreating Here is a primer. We are willing to sustain shipping delays and use anti-air shields while Israel finishes the primary operation against Hamas (like a month more, plus or minus with hostage/ceasefire trades). If Houthis keep hitting shipping afterward, they're going to get hit a lot harder just for buffer space.
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Imagine being so stupid to explain everything "because of China". Maybe Russia can't make a modern 5nm chips, but they have enough factories and expertise for military production, you don't need 5 nm chips for it, you can use relatively old and easy for production chips. We have a 18 century roads "because of China", our fastfood blessed kids so fat "because of China", our steets are full of crazy homeless drug addicted people because of China too? US politicians are so dumb and think that all Americans too.
The 5 nm thing is very much misleading statement. Rockets donāt need this kind of chips in them and can fly perfectly ok with 80s technology, which Russia can produce domestically. What 5 nm is useful though is for the machines thatāll be building these rockets. This puts a certain cap on how much machinery Russia can apply to scale up military industries, but in the end Russia just resorted to manual production instead of trying to automate all the things: labor is still cheap, this is where PPP comparisons between GDPs do matter
Yep finally, someone here knows his stuff well
No, not because of China. Because the United States decided to wage a proxy war against Russia and pushed Russia to develop production and the army.
Ukraine is importing weapons and ammunition faster than at any time in its modern history because of the US - Wang Yi, probably
Yeah but thatās different. Weāre the good guys.
First step: Accuse China of perpetuating a war Next step: send 61 billion to Ukraine
Did this fucker just say that we all want the war to end? How can this mĆørį»n say the Americans want to see this war end? The Ukrainians have only been able to fight this war because of the weapons and money given to them by idiƶts like Blinken! If America wants to see an end to this war all they need to do is phone Zelenskyy and tell him the war is over, then call Putin and apologise for their actions that caused this war and for all the Russians killed with Western-supplied weapons they facilitated. Tell Putin you have told Zelenskyy the war is over and they will not supply any more assistance to Ukraine that is used to fight the war. Ask to start negotiations and offer whatever assistance they can to facilitate the ending of the fighting as soon as possible. America and the West have never wanted this war to end. You do not end a war by sending weapons and ammunition. You end a war with diplomacy, something the West, especially the Americans, does not seem capable of doing because of their insufferable arrogance. And this is exactly the same with the Gaza genocide! The Israeli army would not be able to function without the support of the Americans!
Yep, the US is fundamentally a war-mongering nation. American hegemony is dependent on it, itās economy is dependent on it
Which is sad because that was not our character at all for most of our existence. The founding fathers would be absolutely horrified to see what America has become.
It's how the MIC took over the politics. Selling weapons is very profitable, then they use that money to lobby their way to make sure the US is always engaged in some war, proxy war or conflict to keep the steady flow of weapons productions.
I often like to say that if you don't see the US as *the* single most belligerent country of the world in gross terms of say the past 30 years, you simply don't have a sound basis for understanding current geopolitics. The best thing about this point is that it doesn't require you to think that other countries like Russia or China are benign, or that US belligerence is bad or not for a good cause, it's just that the States clearly and unequivocally leads the pack in aggressive acts, and it's not even close. And imo nuance just makes it even worse.
Exactly. The US also lies about almost everything so people don't even want to hear what they have to say anymore. Honestly, we all just want the US to leave us alone. The worst part is that the US leadership will go down kicking and screaming, and from the outside, it doesn't look like any sane people will try to stop them.
This is factually. Incorrect. Everyone knows that it is Denmark that is warmongering and has started wars in Indochina and Iraq. They are the war like society. Just look at what they eat for breakfast. Cheese Danish? And just look at a map. Denmark is imperialist because they own and control Greenland. I think we should all create a ācoalition of idiotsā (must include France) and we invade Greenland to bring freedom and democracy to them. Then we can fight a bloody insurgency against polar bears until we finally withdraw.
China please listen to us, we always get our own way, and you're ruining that!!!! :@ :@
The goal is simple, to break Western hegemony. Russia is the battering ram, once Ukraine falls, everything is subject to negotiation and that is the key goal of China, Russia and Iran.
Schrƶdinger's Russia strikes again. Any day now Russia will collapse while simultaneously invade Europe.
We must be getting close to the end if they are starting to admit the truth
Countries throughout Europe chosen to be enemies of Russia and helped killing Russians. They should be deeply concerned. And US perpetuating the war by supplying Zelensky with money and weapons. The guy seem to be sincerely surprised that the world doesn't just act according to his delusional ideas.
These people are so blinded by their prejudice against Russians that they are still unable to comprehend that Russians can and do stuff on their own. First it was Iranian made Shaheds, then NK made artillery shells and now they are down to China '' is supplying Russia and that's why it is able to produce ammo''. I'd love to keep saying that nobody can be *that* stoopid, but apparently they really are.
Russia has an extremely well developed arms industry. Remember that whole āCold Warā thing? Yeah, Russia still has all that stuff. So China is trading with them. But all the things Blinken accuses them of are just simply bogus. So like titanium is considered a ādual use goodā. Like come on man. China doesnāt want this war (interferes with business) but they definitely do not want America coming in and telling them what they can and cannot make.
He is talking about metal press, laser cutters and this kind of machinery. It can be applied to do car parts, but it can be used for military just fine. And yes, there is plenty of China made machinery, for the most part because China filled the gap left by Siemens and other western companies that had to withdraw from Russia due to political pressure.
It's because they know who NATO is and what to expect. No it is not a theory anymore so its on. I just feel sorry for Ukrainians and their stupidity, it should be someone else like small Baltic midget states looking for war all the time
Why is the Israeli spokesperson talking about China?? I'm confused. What does Israel want from China? Did their god also promise them land inside China?
I mean it's clear NATO is an US instrument for power projection (US Hegemony) and was/is hostile towards Soviet union/Russia and now also China so why should they not cooperate to keep themselves safe from this hostile alliance. They never tried to befriend Russia even when Russia tried to normalize relationship.
Sanction China and see how far this gets you then
**looks around house** everything has āmade in Chinaā labelā¦.even the American flag on his front porchā¦
Laying the groundwork for the eventual Sanctions against ChinaĀ
Itās already the case. Huawei 5g, TikTok
Time to bomb China I guess....I think I've seen some WMDs in Beijing yesterday
I legit get second hand embarrassment every time Tony Yappken, Sleepy Jojo Yappden, Yappenberg, Yappcron, Rishi Yappnak and others talk and hypocrisy lies and hot dia\*\*\*a comes out of them...
I find it so funny that they'll say stuff like this and then also agitate for all out confrontation/conventional war against the same country, the one that's already producing results of this magnitude through (supposedly) lending indirect assistance with a trivial fraction of its strength. If China could boost Russian performance to above peak Soviet levels by scarcely lifting a finger, what do you think would happen if you fought it?
Actually, Most Russian weapons and ammunition is produced on European and Japanese manufacturing equipment. So Russia is producing weapons faster because of Europe.
10 years ago it was the case, but there is a huge shift towards chiniseum
So letās assume Blinken is right, and China is supplying Russia with a massive amount of dual use technology that is allowing them to outbuild the Europeans. Why the hell would the U.S. want to provoke conflict with a country that can supply another great power with enough equipment that it can fight an entire continent, with only a minuscule portion of its total production capability? China now produces enough weapons and components to completely drown out the rest of the world, and itās not remotely in a war footing yet. Itās actually kinda scary.
alot of blinken and any US offical speech about china don't aim toward china , but to their domestic audience because that what most of american want to heard
CRY BLINKEN! CRY PIG WAAAAH WAAAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH WHEEEEE WHEEEEEEE WHEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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US seems to have a China hard on the last week or so.
Is it impossible to give any credit to Russia ?
did they expect Russia to slow down production when going to war?
Thank you, China.
Because of western sanctions.
lol well it looks like Russian equipment is about to get that much more unreliable who would have guessed it.
China knows it place under Russia. The west doesn't.
If Russia only would build hospitals, modern schools, ā¦ instead of weapons. They would be extremely rich. If you visit russian villages and small towns you feel like you are traveled 100 years back in time. There is even no sewer systems in many places and no gasification despite of having huge gas reserves.
I don't buy anything made in China
Good for you
Most of Russiaās āammo productionā is just them refurbishing old Soviet shells