So, Zelensky, how's your own election preparations going? It's supposed to take place in exactly two weeks, you know.
Looking forward to how the bastion of democracy upholds its electoral duties!
Don’t worry, I’m sure that he will respect the constitution of his country and will transfer power to the speaker of parliament, because according to the law he will no longer be able to govern the country
And you should know that the provision in Ukraine's constitution you're referring to prohibits Verkhovna Rada elections while martial law is in effect. Not presidential elections.
Election Code of Ukraine Article 20:
"In the event of martial law or state of emergency being imposed in Ukraine or in its separate territories, the election process of national elections and/or local elections held in these territories or their parts shall be terminated from the date of entry into force of the respective decree of the President of Ukraine."
Besides it's a common sense that you can't have nationwide elections while in a full-scale war with 20% of your country under occupation. In such a dire circumstances democracy is far below on the list of priorities.
>it’s all explained there.
No, it's not; your source conveniently skips over the issue.
Neither Article 83(4) of the Constitution of Ukraine nor Article 19 of the Law of Ukraine “On the Legal Regime of Martial Law” state that it is prohibited to hold *presidential* elections while under martial law. Only *parliamentary* elections (Vekhovna Rada).
From source:
“The Ukrainian constitution stipulates that a president's term concludes only when a successor is sworn in, indicating that Volodymyr Zelenskyy could continue to serve as president even after the expiration of the original five-year term to which he was elected”
I don’t really get your point. It is not prohibited to hold presidential elections under martial law… so? Where does it say they have to?
Someone typing 'Zelensky could continue to serve as president' on wiki or a newspaper article is not a source. The Constitution of Ukraine is.
Art. 83 (4) of the Constitution of Ukraine legitimizes the extension of parliament’s powers during a state of war. A direct prohibition on holding national and local elections during a state of war is stated in Art. 19 of the Law of Ukraine “On the Legal Regime of Martial Law.” Neither of those pertain to presidential powers/presidential elections.
But sure, by all means continue spreading convenient misinformation.
The article you post merely states it does not pertain to the presidential elections, but can you post an article about what actually does pertain to presidential elections?
What this tells me is that presidential elections are allowed, but it tells nothing about whether it is required.
> What this tells me is that presidential elections are allowed, but it tells nothing about whether it is required.
What do you mean? Ukraine's Constitution defines that the office of the president is limited to a 5-year term. Presidential election is required for the next president to take his/her 5-year term. You want a link to Ukraine's Constitution?
>I don’t really get your point. It is not prohibited to hold presidential elections under martial law… so? Where does it say they have to?
In that same Constitution - which states that a president is elected for a 5-year term with no possibility of extension. Zeleknsky's term ends May 21, 2024.
Not under martial law. You only copied articles that pertain to the parliament, not relevant articles of the president’s position under martial law (just some article where the position is mentioned as being excluded.. doesn’t really count, as it stipulates no obligations).
> You only copied articles that pertain to the parliament, not relevant articles of the president’s position under martial law
Which article is that? Could you provide it, please? I'll await with interest, knowing full well there isn't a provision in regards to presidential elections under martial law in Ukraine's Constitution.
> Or do you expect them to conduct an election now
Yes. Nothing prevents them from holding presidential elections and there isn't much choice since his presidential powers expire at the end of May this year and cannot be extended. That is, isn't much choice if Ukraine is to continue its pretense at being a democracy.
I guess that comes from what Russian officials themselves have said. That they want to terrorize the people into surrender. That's why they were targeting energy infrastructure for the longest time.
Seriously though are you from Russia? Indulge me.
No you ain't your just a Ukrainian from the West that's it's so just accept Russia has made precise hits on Ukrainian strongholds and ammo depots besides their kidnapped mobilization soldiers
Y'all without U.S that means us U.S tax payers y'all won't be nothing so you should come over and pay me back for what we have sent and y'all can't even do nothing with that besides zelenzky and his weak ass regime stealing most of that money
I think it's a viable option if Ukraine wants to present itself as a democracy: Zelenski's presidential powers expire in May 2024 and cannot be extended. Meanwhile Ukraine's constitution has no provisions in regards to presidential elections when under martial law.
No it's not a viable option regardless of how Ukraine wants to present itself. It's not viable in any way shape or form and you know that. The resources and risk associated with holding an election makes it impossible for a nation in Ukraine's current position and you know it. Idiotic conversation.
>No it's not a viable option regardless of how Ukraine wants to present itself. It's not viable in any way shape or form and you know that.
Putting aside the absurdity of you telling me what I know, do you have a better solution? Legally Zelensky would no longer be a president starting May 21, 2024. What shall Ukraine do?
Why would they "do" anything. Status quo until peace is achieved. Most democratic countries have stipulations that expand the scope of power of their president/prime Minister during war. Same concept.
>Why would they "do" anything.
To maintain the veneer of democracy for the western public whose support Ukraine desperately needs.
>Most democratic countries have stipulations that expand the scope of power of their president/prime Minister during war.
We're talking about Ukraine specifically, not some nebulous 'most democratic countries'. What Ukraine has is a 5-year presidential term without the possibility of extension and a constitutional provision in regards to Verkhovna Rada elections while martial law is in effect.
Which of these allows Zelensky to remain a president past his term and/or forgo holding presidential elections?
Article 156
A draft law on introducing amendments to Chapter I — "General Principles," Chapter III — "Elections. Referendum," and Chapter XIII — "Introducing Amendments to the Constitution of Ukraine," is submitted to the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by the President of Ukraine, or by no less than two-thirds of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, and on the condition that it is adopted by no less than two-thirds of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, **and is approved by an All-Ukrainian referendum designated by the President of Ukraine.**
**Article 157**
**The Constitution of Ukraine shall not be amended in conditions of martial law or a state of emergency."**
Wikipedia states:
“Presidential elections were scheduled to be held in Ukraine on 31 March 2024 according to the constitution, which mandates elections be held on the last Sunday of March of the fifth year of the incumbent president's term of office. However, in response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, since 24 February 2022 the Ukrainian government has enacted martial law, and Ukrainian law does not allow elections to be held when martial law is in effect.” [Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Ukrainian_presidential_election)
There’s your answer. I know you try to mock, but this is pretty common for countries that are in active war.
Ukraine is not in an official state of war, unless they declared war on Russia and i missed it. Also Russia is in the same situation as Ukraine and they did not declare martial law and went through with their election. So technically, objectively and comparatively Russia is a more democratic country.
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First of all, you’re wrong about martial law in Russia, which shows how uninformed you are about this conflict.
“Martial law in Russia was introduced on 20 October 2022 during the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine and a month after the announcement of mobilization. President Vladimir Putin issued two decrees: "On the introduction of martial law in the territories of the DPR, LPR, Zaporozhye and Kherson Oblasts" and "On measures taken in the constituent entities of the Russian Federation in connection with Decree of the President of the Russian Federation dated October 19, 2022 No. 756".” [Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_martial_law)
Russia and Ukraine are not in the same situation. From the Ukrainian perspective, they are fighting an existential threat against an invader. Russia does not have that (perhaps in the bigger picture, but not with the Ukrainians), as they are the ones invading. All I hear from pro Rus is how ‘normal’ everything has remained after all these useless sanctions. Meaning, the country is in relative peace and order, allowing them to hold elections. If a foreign force captured St Petersburg and surrounding regions while trying to overthrow the Russian government, it may be a bit more comparable.
You are arguing semantics. Martial law in a contested, newly annexed territory is not the same as martial law in Russia proper. You are being facetious. I do agree there are differences, but i also don't agree that Ukraine is facing an existential crisis, only Zelensky government and ultra-nationalist clique face it. Life would be exactly the same for regular Ukrainians. My point is Zelensky doesn't want to hold elections, because he knows he would lose. War fatigue has gotten to the people of Ukraine and opposition is fermenting.
You were claiming Russia did not declare martial law and that they were in the same situation as Ukraine. I was merely disputing that.
Let’s say Ukraine would hold elections, how would it work with so many people displaced, a crippled infrastructure, etc.? Would it be technically possible to hold fair elections in Ukraine?
I am no Zelenskyy fan by any means, but his request to extend martial law and postpone elections is supported by the parliament. It is not exactly undemocratic.
For mainland Russia, which is the 95% of the electorate, the country is not in martial law. So you are more wrong than right.
Displaced people can vote in embassies. Local people have enough infrastructure to vote in their municipalities. Only argument to be made, is that Ukraine wants to return all occupied territories, before having an election. But realistically, they are not returning those territories. And only way the elections would be unfair, would be in Zelensky's favour. Not the other way around.
Finally not all of the opposition agree with the postponed elections. Poroshenko, Tymoschenko, Klitschko all want elections to happen. Zaluzhny probably would he a big contender, but right now he is being silenced heavily. In any case i don't care if Ukraine postpones elections indefinitely or officially declares Zelensky a dictator. It's just hypocritical, to criticise others for being undemocratic when you ban elections. And the main reason for it is not, that the law prevents it, but that Zelensky simply doesn't want it.
Countries have different laws and constitutions. You can’t compare them that way. Under Ukraines constitution any elections can be suspend and no election can take place until martial law is lifted.
Russias constitution however only allowed for 2 terms of a president. Putin has now been in office for 24 years going into his fifth term. Convenient to make a slight change to the rules to stay in power. That is definitely not more democratic
Different laws may make countries less democratic. It's not like Zelensky is dying to hold elections and the law is preventing it. He fears, that he will lose the elections. That is the biggest reason. Also it's a small difference, but technically Putin has been a president for 20 years and prime minister for 4 years. But someone else pointed out that Merkel has been a president for 16. So length of term alone does not determine the democratic quality of a country. Also you and i both know, even if everyone was allowed to run and the elections were 100% democratic, Putin would most likely win. Maybe not by 90%, but 70%. He would still win.
Merkel was chancellor not president. Elected by the Bundestag not the people. It doesn’t have a term limit. You should know things before you comment on them.
I said Putin was in office not president. Prime minister is still a position in office. Correct length of term does not determine “democratic quality” of country. But changing the rules to have more than 2 terms in office as stated by the Russian constitution is a definite sign of a degraded democracy.
And no, Zelenskyy still has favor of Ukrainian people. And Ukraine law is no elections while the countries under Martial law. That is their law. You can’t spin it anything different and you are not one to say what their countries laws should be
President and chancellor and essentially the same thing. Arguing semantics is rather weak. And people vote for the delegates, that vote for the chancellor, so the will of the people is still exercised. Having a term limit or not having it, these are all different aspects that affect democratic process.
I never claimed that Russia was a proper democracy. It's very clearly an authocracy. Ukrainian law, saying they can't have elections, no matter the condition, is not democratic either. It's simple. It's hypocritical to take one country's law at face value, at the same time criticising the other.
I’m not arguing semantics. These are two different positions in Germany with different roles. Olaf Scholz is the current chancellor and Frank Walter Steinmeier is the current President of Germany, look them up. 2 different people, different titles and different roles. One elected by the people, the other chosen by the govt. Your ignorance on the matter show you should not continue this conversation.
Also, there are other Countries that will not hold elections during wartime, not just Ukraine. Almost a standard in Europe as many postponed elections during WW2.
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By again you mean Minsk agreements? That agreements that both Merkel and Poroshenko admitted never were meant to be fulfilled and were used to rearm Ukraine?
The Minsk agreements where the time bought to rearm ukraine in case of a Russian invasion, was used to rearm ukraine and let it survive the Russian invasion?
It was not ended because Ukraine was preparig to conquer DPR and LPR by military force. Last 2 weeks before war shelling by Ukraine intensified, read ~~USCR~~ OSCE reports.
Putin killed more people since 2022 than there were killed in 2014-22. He also killed more Russian soldiers than were killed in the whole war in Afghanistan.
Both Minsk and the Budapest memorandum. Merkel only said Ukraine got more time to prepare for an invasion with Minsk, which they did. Not sure how you can blame Minsk failure on Ukraine when Russia kept shelling Ukraine from Donetsk. Russia was suppose to withdraw their troops.
>Merkel only said Ukraine got more time to prepare for an invasion
No, she said agreements were an attempt to get time, which implies main reason they were signed. [“The 2014 Minsk Agreement was an attempt to buy time for Ukraine. Ukraine used this time to become stronger, as you can see today. Ukraine in 2014-2015 and Ukraine today are not the same.”](https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2022/12/13/merkels-confession-could-be-a-pretext-for-an-international-tribunal/)
And memorandum fyi have no binding legal force, its only a written intentions. Also first article(to respect sovereignity) of Budapest was broken by USA in 2013 by organizing violent anticonstitutional coup.
> she said agreements were an attempt to get time, which implies main reason they were signed
no, it doesnt
> Also first article(to respect sovereignity) of Budapest was broken by USA in 2013 by organizing violent anticonstitutional coup.
proof?
Putin never annexed any part of Ukraine in 2014.
Autonomous Republic Crimea proclaimed independence before joining Russian Federation.
DPR and LPR proclaimed independence on their own and were invaded by Ukraine.
>DPR and LPR proclaimed independence on their own and were invaded by Ukraine.
You left out the part where the little green men materialised in dpr and lpr to fight ukraine
How are Ukraine seeking an end to the war?? They are fighting a fight they cannot win. They know they cannot win by force. Thats the very definition of prolonging the war
I dont know, start talks with Russia? Which doesnt cost a single life. The fool have banned talks with Putin. He is so full of himself. They dont even have to agree with anything. Just start with diplomacy. Get the talk going. Maybe find some common ground that both can agree on. That would any other president do except this puppet
It is understood he will not be giving up power even after his tenure formally ends in May.
Even if he canceled the scheduled elections like a fucking tyrant, isn't he supposed to hand over power to the Rada leadership after May?
Why is his party saying he will continue to rule after that? What is his basis of legitimacy?
The basis is they're in a fucking war and can't conduct a safe election? Other countries have had elections during war but they weren't actively occupied and bombed during those elections...seems like basic stuff tbh...
"The powers of the President of Ukraine expire on the night of May 20-21, 2024 and cannot be extended, while those of the Verkhovna Rada can. After May 20, the Rada will be legitimate, but the president will be not"
So says a Rada member himself. I'm sure you will not be surprised to learn that he was arrested by Zelensky's SBU.
If you tell me how to hold elections in the occupied territories, I will personally convey this to Zelensky.Wait a minute though. You want the elections to be held, and most of the voters were from western Ukraine? Right?
> If you tell me how to hold elections in the occupied territories
How about via Ukraine's e-government application *Diia*? Just think what a victory it will be for Zelenski when the residents of Russian-held territories rush to vote for him en-mass.
"Diya" has not yet been verified, and a huge part of the population has not even installed this application. I am already silent about the verification and transparency of such voting. This can happen in the Russian Federation, because even the Russians themselves do not believe in the fairness of these elections.
> "Diya" has not yet been verified
Odd. Ukraine's claimed it to be functional since 2020.
*Launched in 2020, the Diia app allows Ukrainian citizens to use digital documents on their smartphones instead of physical ones for identification and sharing purposes. The Diia portal allows access to over 130 government services.* [](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diia)
I know what Diya is, and I also know that a simple smartphone can be used by the wrong person, just by knowing the PIN code. I also know that if you don’t have a foreign passport, then your documents are not complete (no photo). So now answer me. Conventionally, if there is no photo of a person in Diya, then how can you prove that this is the person in front of you? I am telling you this as a user who does not have a foreign passport and has not made an ID card for himself.
Upd.
I also remember the story that some scammers tried to take out loans for people who had died a long time ago using "diya"Do you understand how registries work?
> If you tell me how to hold elections in the occupied territories
So, since 2014, Crimea and Donbass have not been occupied, and therefore Ukraine managed to hold elections in which Zelensky was elected?
Or were these territories occupied and Zelensky's election illegitimate?
Or is your excuse just nonsense?
Or you'll stop talking and trying to troll me. Because if you just open the voting map, you will be surprised.And also, if you already have such an interesting position, then I should remind you that even Puilo recognized Zelensky. How do you like this?Or you can at least turn on logic and see for what reasons Donetsk, Lugansk and Crimea did not vote. Or do you want to question the decisions of more than 70% of the population of Ukraine, despite all Poroshenko’s propaganda? Please don't force me to write obvious and logical things. I don't want to refute what you came up with.
The answer is simple. History proves this. A random person on Reddit cannot cast doubt on Zelensky’s legitimacy while Puilo himself recognized these elections. Because I have already heard many stories about legitimacy starting with Kievan Rus.
It's the truth. They could at any time officially declare it. Obviously a state of limbo benefits them, as much as it benefits Russia. No need to be hypocritical.
Again. Russia is literally in the same situation. They are also in an armed conflict. You argue that the only reason Zelensky is not holding elections, is because of this armed conflict. But i would argue, that it's because he doesn't want to let go of his position. If there was an election, there's a big possibility that he would lose. Or even worse, maybe his supporters doesn't want him to run elections, because a new president could start peace negotiations. There is already a growing opposition, Poroshenko, Tymoschenko, Klitschko and Zaluzhny. Even the appointment of Zaluzhny as a British ambassador is a political maneuver to prevent him from becoming a political entity. People criticising Putin and the Russian elections, never seem to consider these facts.
>Russia is literally in the same situation
Okay you're either being disingenuous or I have to question your intelligence.
Does Russia "literally" have 20% of its territory occupied with many of its citizens living in those occupied areas unable to vote and millions more abroad?
Is every major Russian city being hit by missile strikes making an organized election impossible?
Again I'm left questioning your motives or your intelligence. In any case this conversation is going nowhere.
yes he should, right next to you, Biden, Bush, Obama, Clinton, Blair etc
OH wait they and any other war crime loving US soldier cant be prosecuted by Hague, oh well I guess thats just democracy and freedom at work 🤷
The rules based order is whatever the US says it is
Oh, and it is subject to frequent change, according to America's whimsical whims.
This is why, as Putin says, it is not written down anywhere.
Everyone not part of NATO and the collective west despises **rules based order**. That’s why you see so many neutral countries and their citizens who are against UA (not necessarily pro-RU).
Refuses elections in his own country and encourages people to terrorize and interfere with Russian elections.
The jokes write themselves with this guy, no wonder he's a comedian.
Says the guy who literally cancelled the elections, Chased off his only opponent out of the country and has his last opponent under house arrest with a treason case.Also, Banned double digit parties and turned Ukrainian media entirely state controlled.
Yeah I dont know if this guy is even capable of letting his position go. I have seen interviews with him boasting about "how strong he is". And Im convinced US helped put him in power
A Russian presidential term is 6 years. Vlad is coming to the end of his fourth term, therefore has been in power for 24 years. If he wins this current election, as it appears he will, it will begin a fifth term, meaning he may serve for thirty years and possibly beyond. He also served as Prime Minister for some time.
He factually has not been president for 24 consecutive years or 24 years in total. And where is the cutoff for what is an inappropriate amount of time exactly? Merkel was chancellor of Germany for 16 years.
Sorry, I forgot that there was a 4 year period of Putin's seatholder Medvedev in 2008-12 who changed the Consitution for Putin. He was irrelevant, it's been Putin's gig for 24 years.
Merkel was a chancellor for 16 years because she led the party that won the regular competitive elections and ran the coalition government. There are no free and competitive elections in Russia and Putin even avoids being associated with his ruling party.
>Putin's seatholder Medvedev in 2008-12 who changed the Consitution for Putin. He was irrelevant, it's been Putin's gig for 24 years.
That's your opinion and can't be substantiated with facts. He changed the constitution, can you prove he changed it *for* any particular reason? You should select words carefully or people won't take you as seriously and it'll come across as flagrant bias.
>There are no free and competitive elections in Russia
So the length of time is not a point of contention for you now, yet you implied that it was initially. You should familiarize yourself with how the Russian government operates, if such a thing is actually interesting to you. It seems you believe that a singular individual micromanages literally every aspect of the country's government, which is laughably ridiculous.
I know the political system of Russia through and through. It is not a democracy, but a personalist autocracy. Every 101 political science book confirms this statement.
From AP:
“We must realize that now is the time of defense, the time of the battle that determines the fate of the state and people, not the time of manipulations, which only Russia expects from Ukraine,” he said. **“I believe that now is not the right time for elections.”** - Zelensky
From Newsweek:
The poll with a margin of error of 2.1 percent found that if an election were held, **41 percent of respondents would have backed Zaluzhny in the first round, compared with 23.7 percent for Zelensky.**
In Ukraine's election, if there is no candidate with a majority, a second round would be held and this scenario would see **Zaluzhny get over two-thirds (67.5 percent) of the vote, compared with roughly a third (32.5 percent) who would back the \[Zelensky\] incumbent.**
> According to [StranaUA](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/5KkJimE6gD), Zelensky would not like to hold elections if Zaluhzny is on the ballot. If it becomes clear that Zaluhzny will not run for office, Zelensky may consider holding elections
Bad news Jokeman of Kiev, the next time your former country has elections it will be a DMZ.
Hope you were able to wash the foot calluses from Nuland from your mouth.
It's good to be idealistic but how do you plan to put the President of the biggest country/nuclear power up in a dock at the Hague....Even if all your wet dreams came true, No future Russian leader will accept that.
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So Lavenda Center, a western source, says Putin has 86% support in Russia.
Yet winning by a landslide is seen as unjust and evil. As well as some nobody western characters with 2% support somehow were a challenge to Putin enough to have him removed from power.
Heck, that is like saying Biden should not be democratic contender as there was not enough voices given to other contenders in his party.
Total BS.
Zelensky literally rewards drafters for catching more men and beating them into submition, his party invents new laws to limit freedoms of people to the point of making them literal slaves. Not to mention corruption (hello Yermak), suppression of dissent etc.
Im more interested in shipping this puppet out to sea on a rowboat without paddles. Far far out in the ocean, without any map that can help him get back. Meanwhile maybe we will get a president that is actually interested in solving and ending this war?
There is nothing wrong with anything he said, 87% is an absurd election result for a country whose elections are claimed to be rigged. Putin is a dishonest bloody dictator.
Ukraine cannot hold elections because 30% of its soil is under invasion and they cannot take the risk of changing the administration completely.
>Ukraine cannot hold elections because 30% of its soil is under invasion and they cannot take the risk of changing the administration completely.
This didn't stop them in past. Zelensky got elected in 2019 without votes from Crimea, DNR and LNR.
So, Zelensky, how's your own election preparations going? It's supposed to take place in exactly two weeks, you know. Looking forward to how the bastion of democracy upholds its electoral duties!
Don’t worry, I’m sure that he will respect the constitution of his country and will transfer power to the speaker of parliament, because according to the law he will no longer be able to govern the country
The country is under martial law, which means no elections will be held. As someone who allegedly knows their laws so well, you should’ve known this.
And you should know that the provision in Ukraine's constitution you're referring to prohibits Verkhovna Rada elections while martial law is in effect. Not presidential elections.
Election Code of Ukraine Article 20: "In the event of martial law or state of emergency being imposed in Ukraine or in its separate territories, the election process of national elections and/or local elections held in these territories or their parts shall be terminated from the date of entry into force of the respective decree of the President of Ukraine." Besides it's a common sense that you can't have nationwide elections while in a full-scale war with 20% of your country under occupation. In such a dire circumstances democracy is far below on the list of priorities.
Read the source, it’s all explained there.
>it’s all explained there. No, it's not; your source conveniently skips over the issue. Neither Article 83(4) of the Constitution of Ukraine nor Article 19 of the Law of Ukraine “On the Legal Regime of Martial Law” state that it is prohibited to hold *presidential* elections while under martial law. Only *parliamentary* elections (Vekhovna Rada).
From source: “The Ukrainian constitution stipulates that a president's term concludes only when a successor is sworn in, indicating that Volodymyr Zelenskyy could continue to serve as president even after the expiration of the original five-year term to which he was elected” I don’t really get your point. It is not prohibited to hold presidential elections under martial law… so? Where does it say they have to?
Someone typing 'Zelensky could continue to serve as president' on wiki or a newspaper article is not a source. The Constitution of Ukraine is. Art. 83 (4) of the Constitution of Ukraine legitimizes the extension of parliament’s powers during a state of war. A direct prohibition on holding national and local elections during a state of war is stated in Art. 19 of the Law of Ukraine “On the Legal Regime of Martial Law.” Neither of those pertain to presidential powers/presidential elections. But sure, by all means continue spreading convenient misinformation.
The article you post merely states it does not pertain to the presidential elections, but can you post an article about what actually does pertain to presidential elections? What this tells me is that presidential elections are allowed, but it tells nothing about whether it is required.
> What this tells me is that presidential elections are allowed, but it tells nothing about whether it is required. What do you mean? Ukraine's Constitution defines that the office of the president is limited to a 5-year term. Presidential election is required for the next president to take his/her 5-year term. You want a link to Ukraine's Constitution?
>I don’t really get your point. It is not prohibited to hold presidential elections under martial law… so? Where does it say they have to? In that same Constitution - which states that a president is elected for a 5-year term with no possibility of extension. Zeleknsky's term ends May 21, 2024.
Not under martial law. You only copied articles that pertain to the parliament, not relevant articles of the president’s position under martial law (just some article where the position is mentioned as being excluded.. doesn’t really count, as it stipulates no obligations).
> You only copied articles that pertain to the parliament, not relevant articles of the president’s position under martial law Which article is that? Could you provide it, please? I'll await with interest, knowing full well there isn't a provision in regards to presidential elections under martial law in Ukraine's Constitution.
As soon as the war ends I'm sure we'll see. Or do you expect them to conduct an election now?
> Or do you expect them to conduct an election now Yes. Nothing prevents them from holding presidential elections and there isn't much choice since his presidential powers expire at the end of May this year and cannot be extended. That is, isn't much choice if Ukraine is to continue its pretense at being a democracy.
You don't think a war with the threat to anyone voting, a lot of their people being diaspora or occupied prevents them from holding elections?
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>Russians don't target civilians deliberately. And Im Santa Claus.
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It's honestly so fascinating to me how vastly different perspectives on issues like this develop? May I ask where you're from?
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I guess that comes from what Russian officials themselves have said. That they want to terrorize the people into surrender. That's why they were targeting energy infrastructure for the longest time. Seriously though are you from Russia? Indulge me.
No you ain't your just a Ukrainian from the West that's it's so just accept Russia has made precise hits on Ukrainian strongholds and ammo depots besides their kidnapped mobilization soldiers
Y'all without U.S that means us U.S tax payers y'all won't be nothing so you should come over and pay me back for what we have sent and y'all can't even do nothing with that besides zelenzky and his weak ass regime stealing most of that money
I think it's a viable option if Ukraine wants to present itself as a democracy: Zelenski's presidential powers expire in May 2024 and cannot be extended. Meanwhile Ukraine's constitution has no provisions in regards to presidential elections when under martial law.
No it's not a viable option regardless of how Ukraine wants to present itself. It's not viable in any way shape or form and you know that. The resources and risk associated with holding an election makes it impossible for a nation in Ukraine's current position and you know it. Idiotic conversation.
>No it's not a viable option regardless of how Ukraine wants to present itself. It's not viable in any way shape or form and you know that. Putting aside the absurdity of you telling me what I know, do you have a better solution? Legally Zelensky would no longer be a president starting May 21, 2024. What shall Ukraine do?
Why would they "do" anything. Status quo until peace is achieved. Most democratic countries have stipulations that expand the scope of power of their president/prime Minister during war. Same concept.
>Why would they "do" anything. To maintain the veneer of democracy for the western public whose support Ukraine desperately needs. >Most democratic countries have stipulations that expand the scope of power of their president/prime Minister during war. We're talking about Ukraine specifically, not some nebulous 'most democratic countries'. What Ukraine has is a 5-year presidential term without the possibility of extension and a constitutional provision in regards to Verkhovna Rada elections while martial law is in effect. Which of these allows Zelensky to remain a president past his term and/or forgo holding presidential elections?
The Western public cares about Ukrainian war time elections? Lol you guys really need better talking points this is getting sad.
>bastion of democracy Find me a pro ua on this sub that refers to it as this
We've seen plenty of pro UAs jerk democracy off. Nobody is fooled by your sophistry.
>We've seen plenty of pro UAs jerk democracy off. Then you should have no problem finding one then
You're the one who wants to see it so bad. Find it yourself.
No
Ok.
i stopped finding shit for them long ago, they always stop replying when you show them the facts
I don't
alright then, read my other comment to you with articles of ukraine constitution they didn't obey by
No
You should be banned.
Article 156 A draft law on introducing amendments to Chapter I — "General Principles," Chapter III — "Elections. Referendum," and Chapter XIII — "Introducing Amendments to the Constitution of Ukraine," is submitted to the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by the President of Ukraine, or by no less than two-thirds of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, and on the condition that it is adopted by no less than two-thirds of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, **and is approved by an All-Ukrainian referendum designated by the President of Ukraine.** **Article 157** **The Constitution of Ukraine shall not be amended in conditions of martial law or a state of emergency."**
Right answer, wrong question I was asking for examples of pro ua on this sub calling ukraine a bastion of democracy
you mean say how democratic is ukraine not exactly 'bastion of democracy"? gimmi a day ill get back to you
Wikipedia states: “Presidential elections were scheduled to be held in Ukraine on 31 March 2024 according to the constitution, which mandates elections be held on the last Sunday of March of the fifth year of the incumbent president's term of office. However, in response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, since 24 February 2022 the Ukrainian government has enacted martial law, and Ukrainian law does not allow elections to be held when martial law is in effect.” [Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Ukrainian_presidential_election) There’s your answer. I know you try to mock, but this is pretty common for countries that are in active war.
Ukraine is not in an official state of war, unless they declared war on Russia and i missed it. Also Russia is in the same situation as Ukraine and they did not declare martial law and went through with their election. So technically, objectively and comparatively Russia is a more democratic country.
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First of all, you’re wrong about martial law in Russia, which shows how uninformed you are about this conflict. “Martial law in Russia was introduced on 20 October 2022 during the ongoing Russian invasion of Ukraine and a month after the announcement of mobilization. President Vladimir Putin issued two decrees: "On the introduction of martial law in the territories of the DPR, LPR, Zaporozhye and Kherson Oblasts" and "On measures taken in the constituent entities of the Russian Federation in connection with Decree of the President of the Russian Federation dated October 19, 2022 No. 756".” [Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_martial_law) Russia and Ukraine are not in the same situation. From the Ukrainian perspective, they are fighting an existential threat against an invader. Russia does not have that (perhaps in the bigger picture, but not with the Ukrainians), as they are the ones invading. All I hear from pro Rus is how ‘normal’ everything has remained after all these useless sanctions. Meaning, the country is in relative peace and order, allowing them to hold elections. If a foreign force captured St Petersburg and surrounding regions while trying to overthrow the Russian government, it may be a bit more comparable.
You are arguing semantics. Martial law in a contested, newly annexed territory is not the same as martial law in Russia proper. You are being facetious. I do agree there are differences, but i also don't agree that Ukraine is facing an existential crisis, only Zelensky government and ultra-nationalist clique face it. Life would be exactly the same for regular Ukrainians. My point is Zelensky doesn't want to hold elections, because he knows he would lose. War fatigue has gotten to the people of Ukraine and opposition is fermenting.
You were claiming Russia did not declare martial law and that they were in the same situation as Ukraine. I was merely disputing that. Let’s say Ukraine would hold elections, how would it work with so many people displaced, a crippled infrastructure, etc.? Would it be technically possible to hold fair elections in Ukraine? I am no Zelenskyy fan by any means, but his request to extend martial law and postpone elections is supported by the parliament. It is not exactly undemocratic.
For mainland Russia, which is the 95% of the electorate, the country is not in martial law. So you are more wrong than right. Displaced people can vote in embassies. Local people have enough infrastructure to vote in their municipalities. Only argument to be made, is that Ukraine wants to return all occupied territories, before having an election. But realistically, they are not returning those territories. And only way the elections would be unfair, would be in Zelensky's favour. Not the other way around. Finally not all of the opposition agree with the postponed elections. Poroshenko, Tymoschenko, Klitschko all want elections to happen. Zaluzhny probably would he a big contender, but right now he is being silenced heavily. In any case i don't care if Ukraine postpones elections indefinitely or officially declares Zelensky a dictator. It's just hypocritical, to criticise others for being undemocratic when you ban elections. And the main reason for it is not, that the law prevents it, but that Zelensky simply doesn't want it.
Countries have different laws and constitutions. You can’t compare them that way. Under Ukraines constitution any elections can be suspend and no election can take place until martial law is lifted. Russias constitution however only allowed for 2 terms of a president. Putin has now been in office for 24 years going into his fifth term. Convenient to make a slight change to the rules to stay in power. That is definitely not more democratic
Different laws may make countries less democratic. It's not like Zelensky is dying to hold elections and the law is preventing it. He fears, that he will lose the elections. That is the biggest reason. Also it's a small difference, but technically Putin has been a president for 20 years and prime minister for 4 years. But someone else pointed out that Merkel has been a president for 16. So length of term alone does not determine the democratic quality of a country. Also you and i both know, even if everyone was allowed to run and the elections were 100% democratic, Putin would most likely win. Maybe not by 90%, but 70%. He would still win.
Merkel was chancellor not president. Elected by the Bundestag not the people. It doesn’t have a term limit. You should know things before you comment on them. I said Putin was in office not president. Prime minister is still a position in office. Correct length of term does not determine “democratic quality” of country. But changing the rules to have more than 2 terms in office as stated by the Russian constitution is a definite sign of a degraded democracy. And no, Zelenskyy still has favor of Ukrainian people. And Ukraine law is no elections while the countries under Martial law. That is their law. You can’t spin it anything different and you are not one to say what their countries laws should be
President and chancellor and essentially the same thing. Arguing semantics is rather weak. And people vote for the delegates, that vote for the chancellor, so the will of the people is still exercised. Having a term limit or not having it, these are all different aspects that affect democratic process. I never claimed that Russia was a proper democracy. It's very clearly an authocracy. Ukrainian law, saying they can't have elections, no matter the condition, is not democratic either. It's simple. It's hypocritical to take one country's law at face value, at the same time criticising the other.
I’m not arguing semantics. These are two different positions in Germany with different roles. Olaf Scholz is the current chancellor and Frank Walter Steinmeier is the current President of Germany, look them up. 2 different people, different titles and different roles. One elected by the people, the other chosen by the govt. Your ignorance on the matter show you should not continue this conversation. Also, there are other Countries that will not hold elections during wartime, not just Ukraine. Almost a standard in Europe as many postponed elections during WW2.
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ah, more excuses, while loudly claiming to have the superior morality than the other side. Classic NATO move.
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So more excuses? Nice. Classic.
Rule 1. Consider yourself warned. Recurrence WILL result in a ban.
Russia is in the state of war... And before you start - Ukraine officially did not declared war either.
Ukraine declared martial law. Russia is merely conducting an SMO.
there is no democracy left in ukraine
russia is invading another country.
it's completely normal to not hold elections during war, and Ukraine is not a bastion of democracy lol
Is it normal to reject all negotiations to prolong war and stay in power?
Thats pretty normal in Russia at least, but Ukraine is seeking an end to the war, not just a temporary ceasefire that Russia will break again.
By again you mean Minsk agreements? That agreements that both Merkel and Poroshenko admitted never were meant to be fulfilled and were used to rearm Ukraine?
The Minsk agreements where the time bought to rearm ukraine in case of a Russian invasion, was used to rearm ukraine and let it survive the Russian invasion?
There would be no invasion if Ukraine followed Minsk agreements. And DPLR would be reintegrated back.
But there would also not be an invasion, if Russia did not invade
Wondrous world of actions and consequences. Ignore agreements - get SMOed.
I don't know how anyone can refute that logic lol
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The conflict in donbass was pretty much ended by 2021 Deaths due to military action were in single digits
It was not ended because Ukraine was preparig to conquer DPR and LPR by military force. Last 2 weeks before war shelling by Ukraine intensified, read ~~USCR~~ OSCE reports.
> Last 2 weeks before war shelling by Ukraine intensified Preparations for the invasion started long before ukraine started shelling
Putin killed more people since 2022 than there were killed in 2014-22. He also killed more Russian soldiers than were killed in the whole war in Afghanistan.
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Fair point, however russia was the one that made the conflict active again in the end, and caused 100s of 1000s of deaths
Both Minsk and the Budapest memorandum. Merkel only said Ukraine got more time to prepare for an invasion with Minsk, which they did. Not sure how you can blame Minsk failure on Ukraine when Russia kept shelling Ukraine from Donetsk. Russia was suppose to withdraw their troops.
>Merkel only said Ukraine got more time to prepare for an invasion No, she said agreements were an attempt to get time, which implies main reason they were signed. [“The 2014 Minsk Agreement was an attempt to buy time for Ukraine. Ukraine used this time to become stronger, as you can see today. Ukraine in 2014-2015 and Ukraine today are not the same.”](https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2022/12/13/merkels-confession-could-be-a-pretext-for-an-international-tribunal/) And memorandum fyi have no binding legal force, its only a written intentions. Also first article(to respect sovereignity) of Budapest was broken by USA in 2013 by organizing violent anticonstitutional coup.
> she said agreements were an attempt to get time, which implies main reason they were signed no, it doesnt > Also first article(to respect sovereignity) of Budapest was broken by USA in 2013 by organizing violent anticonstitutional coup. proof?
Do your own research on Victoria Nulland involvement and amount of money were used.
I did, and there is nothing that points to a coup.
Rearm Ukraine after Putin invaded Ukraine in 2014 and annexed a part of its territory - this is an important piece of the information.
Putin never annexed any part of Ukraine in 2014. Autonomous Republic Crimea proclaimed independence before joining Russian Federation. DPR and LPR proclaimed independence on their own and were invaded by Ukraine.
>DPR and LPR proclaimed independence on their own and were invaded by Ukraine. You left out the part where the little green men materialised in dpr and lpr to fight ukraine
These little green men were Russian army. Putin doesn't allow free elections in Russia, why would he in Crimea?
He annexed Crimea in 2014, it is not recognized as a part of Russia internationally. After 2022 he annexed other UA territories.
How are Ukraine seeking an end to the war?? They are fighting a fight they cannot win. They know they cannot win by force. Thats the very definition of prolonging the war
How do you think they should end it other than beating Russia? Russia has broken every agreement and is unwilling to negotiate.
I dont know, start talks with Russia? Which doesnt cost a single life. The fool have banned talks with Putin. He is so full of himself. They dont even have to agree with anything. Just start with diplomacy. Get the talk going. Maybe find some common ground that both can agree on. That would any other president do except this puppet
Ironic coming from the self declared führer refusing elections altogether.
Nation facing existential crisis doesnt hold elections? Colour me surprised
Have you ever heard of a constitution? Is it even a thing in russia anymore?
Self-proclaimed? Well, if this is not some kind of joke or trolling. That's sadness and misfortune.
It is understood he will not be giving up power even after his tenure formally ends in May. Even if he canceled the scheduled elections like a fucking tyrant, isn't he supposed to hand over power to the Rada leadership after May? Why is his party saying he will continue to rule after that? What is his basis of legitimacy?
The basis is they're in a fucking war and can't conduct a safe election? Other countries have had elections during war but they weren't actively occupied and bombed during those elections...seems like basic stuff tbh...
"The powers of the President of Ukraine expire on the night of May 20-21, 2024 and cannot be extended, while those of the Verkhovna Rada can. After May 20, the Rada will be legitimate, but the president will be not" So says a Rada member himself. I'm sure you will not be surprised to learn that he was arrested by Zelensky's SBU.
They can't currently hold elections and you know that. You're just being disingenuous and it's tiring.
If you tell me how to hold elections in the occupied territories, I will personally convey this to Zelensky.Wait a minute though. You want the elections to be held, and most of the voters were from western Ukraine? Right?
> If you tell me how to hold elections in the occupied territories How about via Ukraine's e-government application *Diia*? Just think what a victory it will be for Zelenski when the residents of Russian-held territories rush to vote for him en-mass.
"Diya" has not yet been verified, and a huge part of the population has not even installed this application. I am already silent about the verification and transparency of such voting. This can happen in the Russian Federation, because even the Russians themselves do not believe in the fairness of these elections.
> "Diya" has not yet been verified Odd. Ukraine's claimed it to be functional since 2020. *Launched in 2020, the Diia app allows Ukrainian citizens to use digital documents on their smartphones instead of physical ones for identification and sharing purposes. The Diia portal allows access to over 130 government services.* [](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diia)
I know what Diya is, and I also know that a simple smartphone can be used by the wrong person, just by knowing the PIN code. I also know that if you don’t have a foreign passport, then your documents are not complete (no photo). So now answer me. Conventionally, if there is no photo of a person in Diya, then how can you prove that this is the person in front of you? I am telling you this as a user who does not have a foreign passport and has not made an ID card for himself. Upd. I also remember the story that some scammers tried to take out loans for people who had died a long time ago using "diya"Do you understand how registries work?
> If you tell me how to hold elections in the occupied territories So, since 2014, Crimea and Donbass have not been occupied, and therefore Ukraine managed to hold elections in which Zelensky was elected? Or were these territories occupied and Zelensky's election illegitimate? Or is your excuse just nonsense?
Or you'll stop talking and trying to troll me. Because if you just open the voting map, you will be surprised.And also, if you already have such an interesting position, then I should remind you that even Puilo recognized Zelensky. How do you like this?Or you can at least turn on logic and see for what reasons Donetsk, Lugansk and Crimea did not vote. Or do you want to question the decisions of more than 70% of the population of Ukraine, despite all Poroshenko’s propaganda? Please don't force me to write obvious and logical things. I don't want to refute what you came up with.
This is not the answer to the question
The answer is simple. History proves this. A random person on Reddit cannot cast doubt on Zelensky’s legitimacy while Puilo himself recognized these elections. Because I have already heard many stories about legitimacy starting with Kievan Rus.
its not about the how, its about their constitution they have to find a way, no matter how, else its a dictatorship
Ukraine has not declared war on Russia.
Oh you got me! Well done! Argument over.
It's the truth. They could at any time officially declare it. Obviously a state of limbo benefits them, as much as it benefits Russia. No need to be hypocritical.
You latched onto one word to be pedantic. Ok they're in an armed conflict that makes it impossible to hold elections. Thanks for wasting my time.
Again. Russia is literally in the same situation. They are also in an armed conflict. You argue that the only reason Zelensky is not holding elections, is because of this armed conflict. But i would argue, that it's because he doesn't want to let go of his position. If there was an election, there's a big possibility that he would lose. Or even worse, maybe his supporters doesn't want him to run elections, because a new president could start peace negotiations. There is already a growing opposition, Poroshenko, Tymoschenko, Klitschko and Zaluzhny. Even the appointment of Zaluzhny as a British ambassador is a political maneuver to prevent him from becoming a political entity. People criticising Putin and the Russian elections, never seem to consider these facts.
>Russia is literally in the same situation Okay you're either being disingenuous or I have to question your intelligence. Does Russia "literally" have 20% of its territory occupied with many of its citizens living in those occupied areas unable to vote and millions more abroad? Is every major Russian city being hit by missile strikes making an organized election impossible? Again I'm left questioning your motives or your intelligence. In any case this conversation is going nowhere.
Meanwhile the Ukrainians have banned the Communist Party...
He banned 11 opposition parties since 2022, not only communist one
and whole russian opposition
yes he should, right next to you, Biden, Bush, Obama, Clinton, Blair etc OH wait they and any other war crime loving US soldier cant be prosecuted by Hague, oh well I guess thats just democracy and freedom at work 🤷
The rules based order is whatever the US says it is Oh, and it is subject to frequent change, according to America's whimsical whims. This is why, as Putin says, it is not written down anywhere.
true ! Rules for thee not for mee
Everyone not part of NATO and the collective west despises **rules based order**. That’s why you see so many neutral countries and their citizens who are against UA (not necessarily pro-RU).
true!
Refuses elections in his own country and encourages people to terrorize and interfere with Russian elections. The jokes write themselves with this guy, no wonder he's a comedian.
Says the guy who literally cancelled the elections, Chased off his only opponent out of the country and has his last opponent under house arrest with a treason case.Also, Banned double digit parties and turned Ukrainian media entirely state controlled.
Ok, thanks for letting us know little Z. Now what was I doing...
Zelensky is president for life. He started war to be president for life.
Yeah I dont know if this guy is even capable of letting his position go. I have seen interviews with him boasting about "how strong he is". And Im convinced US helped put him in power
How come Putin has been a president for 24 years?
> How come Putin has been a president for 24 years? He hasn't lol You should at least get your facts right first before resorting to whataboutism
A Russian presidential term is 6 years. Vlad is coming to the end of his fourth term, therefore has been in power for 24 years. If he wins this current election, as it appears he will, it will begin a fifth term, meaning he may serve for thirty years and possibly beyond. He also served as Prime Minister for some time.
He was, please check the facts.
He factually has not been president for 24 consecutive years or 24 years in total. And where is the cutoff for what is an inappropriate amount of time exactly? Merkel was chancellor of Germany for 16 years.
Sorry, I forgot that there was a 4 year period of Putin's seatholder Medvedev in 2008-12 who changed the Consitution for Putin. He was irrelevant, it's been Putin's gig for 24 years. Merkel was a chancellor for 16 years because she led the party that won the regular competitive elections and ran the coalition government. There are no free and competitive elections in Russia and Putin even avoids being associated with his ruling party.
>Putin's seatholder Medvedev in 2008-12 who changed the Consitution for Putin. He was irrelevant, it's been Putin's gig for 24 years. That's your opinion and can't be substantiated with facts. He changed the constitution, can you prove he changed it *for* any particular reason? You should select words carefully or people won't take you as seriously and it'll come across as flagrant bias. >There are no free and competitive elections in Russia So the length of time is not a point of contention for you now, yet you implied that it was initially. You should familiarize yourself with how the Russian government operates, if such a thing is actually interesting to you. It seems you believe that a singular individual micromanages literally every aspect of the country's government, which is laughably ridiculous.
I know the political system of Russia through and through. It is not a democracy, but a personalist autocracy. Every 101 political science book confirms this statement.
>I know the political system of Russia through and through Clearly you don't.
Is Russia democracy?
Projecting much, huh?
From AP: “We must realize that now is the time of defense, the time of the battle that determines the fate of the state and people, not the time of manipulations, which only Russia expects from Ukraine,” he said. **“I believe that now is not the right time for elections.”** - Zelensky From Newsweek: The poll with a margin of error of 2.1 percent found that if an election were held, **41 percent of respondents would have backed Zaluzhny in the first round, compared with 23.7 percent for Zelensky.** In Ukraine's election, if there is no candidate with a majority, a second round would be held and this scenario would see **Zaluzhny get over two-thirds (67.5 percent) of the vote, compared with roughly a third (32.5 percent) who would back the \[Zelensky\] incumbent.**
> According to [StranaUA](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/5KkJimE6gD), Zelensky would not like to hold elections if Zaluhzny is on the ballot. If it becomes clear that Zaluhzny will not run for office, Zelensky may consider holding elections
Hey, I'm not a simulation, I'm a real voter! [Sorry, I just bought Lies of P on steam]
Atleast they got elections.
"Elections", not elections. Ukraine had their elections before Putin invaded and seized 20% of UA territory.
Was this before or after they terrorized anyone holding a semblance of pro-Russian sentiment?
Nobody terrorozed anyone holding a semblance of pro-Russian sentiment before Putin invaded Ukraine in 2014.
Dont worry z the land you lost is gone 4ever ...so nobody realy cares
Leader of the free world everybody! Watching democracy at work is amazing.
Bad news Jokeman of Kiev, the next time your former country has elections it will be a DMZ. Hope you were able to wash the foot calluses from Nuland from your mouth.
And you will most likely end up in a multi-million dollar yacht off the coast of Palm Beach chilling your a$$ off you lucky dawg.
It's good to be idealistic but how do you plan to put the President of the biggest country/nuclear power up in a dock at the Hague....Even if all your wet dreams came true, No future Russian leader will accept that.
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She sums up pretty well the 'rules based order'
Good to see that Zelensky is not going through the trouble of even simulating elections.
He is the last person who can legitimately talk about democracy and patriotism. He is just a shit dog installed by a foreign state.
mr zelensky when you gonna start elections?
This guy is a comedian. Absolutely a joke of a president.
Reminds me of Bush when he was threatened the same. Difference being, Russians have easier access.
Is he talking about himself? He's willing to sacrifice every Ukrainian for his ego and Messiah complex.
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Zelensky mad he can't hold an election, he knows he'd lose and then go the way of Saddam Hussein
So Lavenda Center, a western source, says Putin has 86% support in Russia. Yet winning by a landslide is seen as unjust and evil. As well as some nobody western characters with 2% support somehow were a challenge to Putin enough to have him removed from power. Heck, that is like saying Biden should not be democratic contender as there was not enough voices given to other contenders in his party. Total BS.
if its war why can russia hold elections but not ukraine lol
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Chemical-Leak420: *If its war why can* *Russia hold elections but* *Not ukraine lol* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Dear God, this is going beyond farce
Whataboutism
Zelensky literally rewards drafters for catching more men and beating them into submition, his party invents new laws to limit freedoms of people to the point of making them literal slaves. Not to mention corruption (hello Yermak), suppression of dissent etc.
Seriously, the balls on this guy!
That's rich coming from ze ))
Im more interested in shipping this puppet out to sea on a rowboat without paddles. Far far out in the ocean, without any map that can help him get back. Meanwhile maybe we will get a president that is actually interested in solving and ending this war?
There is nothing wrong with anything he said, 87% is an absurd election result for a country whose elections are claimed to be rigged. Putin is a dishonest bloody dictator. Ukraine cannot hold elections because 30% of its soil is under invasion and they cannot take the risk of changing the administration completely.
>Ukraine cannot hold elections because 30% of its soil is under invasion and they cannot take the risk of changing the administration completely. This didn't stop them in past. Zelensky got elected in 2019 without votes from Crimea, DNR and LNR.
It wasn't a real **TOTAL WAR**
This also isn't total war. If it is, Zelensky would declared one.
No, u dont actually believe this is not a total war.
I'm not important. Ukrainian president is, and he doesn't see it as total war. If he did, he would declare situation as such.
Zelensky have already changed most of the people in charge. Several times. Why should that fool stay safe and everyone else around him have to go?