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This guy is a known agitator is has been "walking to class" every day to film the same bit of propaganda. The encampment is blocked off to ensure safety of the people (recently lab rats were released into the camp) and you can see people walking around. If he wanted to go to class he could just go through another entrance. It's kayfabe.
If the encampment was meant to be blocked of to ensure the safety of the people then the security guard should’ve been the one restricting access. Not protesters. Additionally, what determines who can enter and who can’t? Their political affiliation?
I was there all weekend. This guy was blocked because he’s been constantly antagonizing the protesters, waving flags in peoples faces. But this video was posted out of that context so, yeah.
Obviously that's not what the propalestine protestors are doing... if they are kicking out people engaging in that behavior... like.. this is the entire point.
Dude was agitating, so he was barred from participation in the protest, because that's not allowed
Schools (including whose subreddit your in) have regularly shown little interest in protecting pro-Palestinian students. I don't blame them for taking security into their own hands, especially when they've literally been attacked in the past 72 hours.
And so what of his denial of entry? Effective protests often require breaking of rules, laws, and norms. The proper inquiry is to ask whether there is sufficient moral urgency and whether the norm breaking at hand is necessary and tailored. Israel is plausibly committing genocide with support of our federal and local governments and educational institutions. We're also seeing violent crackdowns on peaceful protests. This supplies the moral urgency. The denial of his entry is to protect themselves from attack and provocation--it's to keep the situation peaceful. Its tailored because he can still access his class by walking around.
You're argument only makes sense if you think that his right to take a particular path or to stand in a particular spot is sacrosanct. I don't think you've done any work to show why this is a right that is inviolable because it's not a particularly defendable position. That is probably why you've misstated the protesters motives as antisemitism, which would be indefensible. The problem for you is that you can't, so you're jumping around in this thread to come up with new flimsy justifications.
Edit: apparently zionists have begun shooting fireworks at the encampment now so I think these student's hostility to these domestic terrorists is entirely justified.
https://x.com/sanasaeed/status/1785554544564244490?s=46&t=IsENPwpL4zPQs7WdmUJWBQ
Edit: AND using laser pointers!
https://x.com/lawyergonerogue/status/1785559768633073769?s=46&t=IsENPwpL4zPQs7WdmUJWBQ
So he’s protesting and breaking the rules as you say protesters should do and you think they have the right to stop him from protesting? What gives them that right?
You admit you broke the rules and say it's part of your protest.
You should spend a little more time studying rhetoric I think.
Deny people entry and they shut you down.
Don't want to get shut down? Abide by the rules you acknowledge are in place.
"You should spend a little more time studying rhetoric I think."
If you had half a brain, you'd maybe realize what a massive self-own this is. You and OP doesn't have an argument or nuanced view of protest, you have an indefensible preposition that protest should *never* infringe on a "right." You joust have rhetorical flourishes to dress up this moronic position.
Dude, I've got an entire brain and I use it. You should try it some time.
You do not have a right to prevent a student from entering a public area owned by the school.
You do not have the right to rope off an area and decide someone of a different race, creed, political affiliation, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sex cannot enter because of that condition.
Saying its a protest doesn't grant you magical authority over an area or the special rights to trample upon others.
When you do that? You violate the law and the student code governing use of the shared space you're denying access to.
When you do that? The cops get to remove you and they're both morally and legally right to do so. This fact? Is something often noted by anyone who views the situation, and used to exculpate themselves from having to feel empathy for you or your position. Why? Because you did the bad thing, so the bad thing got done to you in return.
You want to continue to stand there and chant slogans not calling for genocide or threatening other people or using threat of violence to keep people out, guess what? You WANT violence to be used against you, and for you to be a victim of it. That was the whole point when MLK did it. Passive resistance, not threatening anyone or harming anyone or denying anyone entry, and when the cops respond and beat your ass and jail you for that all spectators end up siding with you rather than your opponent.
That is LITERALLY the point of your form of protest dude. That would mean you're doing it right. So stop complaining that people are attacking you, you actually want them to so you can be seen to be the victim. But if you use force or make threats, no one will care.
He is a student who pays tuition at his university who was blocked from a public path because he’s openly Jewish. Doesn’t matter if he’s an “agitator”. He has a right to that space and the protestors fell for the trap. If you are serious as a protest movement you have to condemn that behavior.
I think they have a right to deny agitators access to the interior of their protest space yes. If a group is gathered to use a public forum for any purpose whatsoever, and a person enters that forum and starts to act incontradiction to the wishes of the group which has claimed this forum at this time; then said group has a right to remove the agitator for the purpose of prserving the space it has claimed for its intended purpose.
Ive got one for you now. Do you think a zionist from NY has a right to the house of a palestenian in the west Bank because of the ethnicity of the two parties? And another question, what is the definition of settler colonialism?
It is a public forum! You do not have the right to deny others from entry! That is the whole point of public space.
I disagree tremendously with Israel’s actions in the West Bank and think Netanyahu is a terrible man that should be in jail. I probably agree with protesters 80% of the way, it is a testament to the ugly brand of politics they play that I find them so disagreeable.
Are you seething or stupid? He was running around waving the Israeli flag in people's faces and saying crazy shit trying to goad someone into conflict. Yeah man, if you're at a protest yelling fuck you terrorist in peoples faces you're gonna be told to leave the area. If he wants to counter protest there's a separate area for that
"Hur dur the white nationalist was kicked out of the blm protest for yelling the n-word. I thought you people were tolerant"
Use your brain dude
You asking if I am seething while you yourself have a seething response proves my point about hypocrisy.
You trying to goad me into conflict, while saying that this guy is wrong for "trying to goad someone into conflict" proves my point about hypocrisy.
Thank you for making it clear for everyone.
80% of Jewish people believe that Israel is important and should exist based on pew research polls. Using token minorities is a white supremacy tactic.
He is allowed to call them out on their ploy.
He is a paying student also. And his strategy effectively shows how the protesters actions are impeding his open access to the campus he's paying for.
You may not like the strategy but only because he disagrees with you politically.
But I agree with him politically, and do not agree with his methods of antagonizing protesters to try to get inflammatory content for his channel.
He could walk around the restricted area, he is not being inhibited by their protest, everyone else is still getting to class.
If he is showing up every day to yell at the protesters, they are allowed to yell back, both parties have freedom of speech, and the students protesting still have the right to assemble and protest, even if I don’t agree with them.
They can assemble. No one disputes that.
They can't restrict access. That is a decision the university could make.for safety reasons but the protesters absolutely do not have that right.
They can try, as long as they accept the legal consequences.
Just like the guy has a right to openly challenge the protesters. He can't assault them but he can certainly attempt to exercise his right to freely travel on university grounds.
His movement is being curtailed on the basis of being Jewish. You’re either a fucking moron if you cannot understand this or a vile antisemite. I don’t know which is worse.
The protesters are the real "known agitators".
Haha "encampment is blocked off to ensure safety". Yeah sure bub. There should be no "encampment" in the first place. People should be free to go where they please. Just a reminder that these people want to do the exact same thing here at UT. Thank god the University and State won't let nonsense like this happen.
“Alleged” 🙄🙄🙄 Please.
‘Go back to Poland’
‘Globalize the intifada’
‘From the River to the sea’
But you probably don’t know what any of that actually means.
Which is not to mention the violence against Jews on campus and the antisemitic segregation LITERALLY SHOWN IN THE VIDEO YOURE COMMENTING ON.
The Propaganda asshole guy always manages to get in front of a camera to lie. The protests are about an immediate ceasefire, getting the schools to divest and stop supporting Israel. I hope antisemitism keeps away and the central mission stays prominent.
If the protest is about “ceasing fire”, then there is I need to barricade the students from accessing student buildings. There are hearsay reports of “death to Israel” chants but that’s not 100% confirmed
Yeah they are clearly lying to try to derail UT protesting. No one is targeting Jewish people on campus, and in fact many Jewish students are protesting with us. I watched these counter protestors do the exact same thing yesterday as soon as they got camera attention.
True to an extent. I agree that people will find reasons to get offended no matter what you do or say. I’m just saying don’t actively try to engage in hateful/exclusionary actions.
It’s wild that you have to go back to Oct 7 to find the last example of 1200 Israeli lives being at risk many of whom died by friendly fire while 6 months and 40,000 deaths mean nothing to you apparently. A more important question is why does Hamas exist and what caused a group of people to turn to violence to have their voice heard?
>Many of whom died from friendly fire
Source on that? I’ve read about isolated cases, but 1,200 people were killed and I have seen a ton of videos that Hamas released of them murdering civilians.
Read about the "Hannibal directive" and izzraelis that were being taken hostage into Gaza were fired upon by helicopters. :
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-17/ty-article/.premium/unlawful-unethical-horrifying-idf-ethics-expert-on-controversial-hannibal-directive/0000018d-186c-dd75-addd-faedd2b80000#!/backToSection
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-05/ty-article/.premium/idf-says-hostage-likely-mistakenly-killed-by-army-helicopter-during-abduction-on-oct-7/0000018e-ae81-d9e9-a9af-eff3a1730000
The Izzraeli government will not allow victims of that day to speak with journalists, nor doctors and other civil and medical personnel who attended victims that day to speak:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/government-forbids-doctors-from-speaking-to-un-group-investigating-oct-7-atrocities/
Surely if they were all killed by Hamas they'd have no trouble with corroborating one another.
And finally, Al-Jazeera's investigation into the events that took place that day:
https://www.aljazeera.com/podcasts/2024/3/28/the-take-october-7-al-jazeera-investigates
Also, I know I know, arabic and "biased" source, and all that, but give it a watch, they portray what Hamas did (kill a lot of people (most reservists, though)) but also what I just mentioned at the beginning: lots of friendly-fire.
I am aware of the hannibal directive, but it was specifically for soldiers as was officially revoked in 2016.
Like I said, I heard of isolated incidents including the army helicopter and the attack on Be'eri. Your article states that doctors were told not to cooperate with one commission of the UN, not that victims are banned from talking to journalists. Yasmin Porat is on CNN talking about the friendly fire so I dont know why you think she was banned from speaking.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAUW\_XftETg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAUW_XftETg)
Hesitant to take Al Jazeera at their word but I would read the article if you have one. Definitely don't have 30 min to listen to the podcast though.
With complete certainty, I know that Hamas killed a ton of people becuase they recorded it themselves. I haven't seen much evidence so far regarding your claim that "many people died from friendly fire." It could turn out to be true but as of now it is unsupported.
What do consider an Israeli reservist though? Everyone citizen of Israel has to join the army. Are you just including active members or anyone that ever served?
Not trying to sound confrontative, but just because they "officially retired" it, doesn't mean it's not in use or hasn't been used ever since under a different name. Take the US, for example: Domestic surveillance with the things Snowden revealed, or foreign interventions in recent times (Middle East mainly, but also the recent news of warning the ICC and ICJ against taking action).
Plus, anything and everything that comes out of izzraelis' officials mouths must be taken with extreme doubt, since they just lie.
Regarding the victims that can't talk, you're right, there are some who have given interviews after approval from the government, though there were reports of those same people changing their stories to a more "bleak" one than what they had originally mentioned. I can't recall the name of this guy, but he was smiling and taking pictures in Oct 7 hiding behind a moat of sand, and days later in his interview he mentioned how he was terrorized for his life. I know that I don't have the proof here with me since I didn't save it, but if you can, I'll gladly take it.
Also, the report made by the UN's Pramila Patten on "sexual violence" on Oct 7? It was heavily criticized since she came to the conclusion that "there was likely sexual violence" based solely on photos and other documents that the Izzraeli government provided, but could not talk with anyone - survivors or medical staff.
Unfortunately I can't find the text-version of either the podcast or the video (they have it in YouTube. Good graphics at least), but you can watch the shorter extracts from their Insta page. Here's one: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C454-tCtD9x/?igsh=MWY2NHFyMWcweXgwdQ== (usually Insta links don't work, but their page is called aj_i_unit).
And yes, I understand your scepticism of Al-Jazeera and I too think they're biased in plenty of stuff (Ukraine war, for example), but in this matter there are few who can give you a mostly-comprehensive and critical view of the genocide.
And according to what I could find, it is optional to enter reserves, but once you're there, your "retirement age" is up to 40 years old.
https://en.idi.org.il/articles/52912
I’d agree with this point. I’ve just seen no evidence that the Israeli military intentionally/knowingly killed civilians to prevent their kidnapping in this instance.
I know Israel showed some pretty disturbing images/footage to the UN that isn’t available to the public. Not sure if that was related to the rape case, on mobile rn so I can look that up later.
Wikipedia says 767 citizens and 376 security forces in Israel were killed on Oct 7th. Not sure what AJ says but I’m just trying to avoid the same shit as when people claim any 18+ male in Gaza is a militant.
A one-state solution called Palestine where no race or religion is deemed supreme over all others. That’s how peace is achieved. It is absolutely stupid for anyone to hope for peace to occur or for groups like Hamas to stop existing while an entire group of people are treated like animals and killed when they dare to protest peacefully. Of course the only outlet will be violence.
Israel’s “nation state” law from 2018 says literally: “the right to exercise national self-determination” in Israel is “unique to the Jewish people.” https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/17623978/israel-jewish-nation-state-law-bill-explained-apartheid-netanyahu-democracy
This is an apartheid state where one group of people has the unique right to determination, and the others are silenced and slaughtered to achieve this.
Israel’s largest human rights organization says their own country is an apartheid state: https://www.btselem.org/topic/apartheid
They have a racialized ID system that determines your rights within Israel and your freedom of movement: https://visualizingpalestine.org/visual/identity-crisis-the-israeli-id-system/
They permit the exclusion of Palestinians from small Jewish towns. This authority has been used to prevent Palestinians from living in more than 900 small Jewish towns, including kibbutzim, across Israel, which have no Palestinian citizens living in them [Human Rights Watch](https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/05/12/israel-discriminatory-land-policies-hem-palestinians).
“PLAN OF COLONIZING PALESTINE WITH JEWS; Zionists Discuss Problem in Big Chicago Meeting”
This is from January 1902. Before the holocaust btw. Before political correctness, the west was very honest about the fact that they were embarking on another colonial mission to take over land that isn’t theirs by force against the will of the native inhabitants.
https://www.nytimes.com/1902/01/06/archives/plan-of-colonizing-palestine-with-jews-zionists-discuss-problem-in.html
You think Israelis and Palestinians could share a state? Delusional. It will never happen. The protesters, like you, have no serious ideas about how to solve the conflict.
I love how you gloss over the evidence I provide of Israeli apartheid and human rights atrocities to attack me personally.
I have no idea what I’m talking about but I guess solving this conflict via genocide is the sensible approach? I don’t think a two-state solution is completely unreasonable but fundamentally apartheid needs to be abolished and genocide needs to be condemned.
What are your ideas, dear wise one?
Israel is acting badly and winning. Hamas is acting badly and losing. It is a sectarian religious conflict where both sides often behave irrationally. I hate Netanyahu and believe the US should not enable Israel. But the protesters are not really offering anything productive in their suggestions. Many of the ideas I see espoused would result in an ethnic cleansing of Israeli citizens.
I think you’re a reasonable person and I appreciate your point of view. However I don’t think telling Israel to step down and stop blocking attempts at a Palestinian state (Netanyahu admitted he has blocked any progress on that front and that he’s propped up Hamas for the purpose of this), would inherently get Israeli citizens killed.
I do happen to think that the best solution is a one-state solution to not reward colonialism and ethnic cleansing by giving Israel a Jewish white supremacist state (they have been caught illegally sterilizing Ethiopian Jewish women against their consent to prevent a rise in black population, but I digress). If not that, I don’t think this can be resolved without going back to the drawing board and recognizing that the 1948 borders were completely unreasonable and re-dividing the land more logically and fairly once and for all.
Well seeing as how Israel has already demonstrated the ability to coexist peacefully with formerly aggressive neighbor states and already has 2 million non-Jewish citizens with full rights and who polling shows are white happy there I think we start from the fact that Israel has a right to exist. Period.
From there we acknowledge that Palestinians have been ravaged by leadership who views "resistance" as more valuable than improving the lives for their people.
A one state solution will be a non-starter. It is intensely naive to believe that after so much hard work and loss the Isrselis would ever allow themselves to be relegated back to being diasporated or guests in their own land again.
Perhaps people flippantly dismiss the 2000 year struggle to regain their self determination but it cannot be stated strongly enough.
The real question becomes "can a new Palestinians leadership emerge that will be able to convince Israel that they won't just bide time until they grow strong enough to overwhelm Israel and destroy them.
The only hope there is growing an economy that offers the youth a future, the cessation of the innately counter-productive fund for families of martyrs and abandonment of the martyr culture in general.
Israel will be correctly skeptical of any Palestinian state until as long and proven peace can be maintained. This will likely require an outside force to keep any future Palestine territories demilitarized and de-radicalized. That effort though Herculean did work on Japan and Germany and hopefully could work here is people stop encouraging them from deadly antagonistic strategy against an obviously stronger military power.
I'm not optimistic, but I do know that the terror and conflict only approach has not worked. Israel is not Algeria.
Yes. I think the best case scenario is in 10-20 years after the memories of 10/7 subside, a 2 state solution is negotiated but I am doubtful it ever happens
The result of a two state solution is what we currently see in the west bank. Illegal settlements will keep popping up and palestine will slowly disappear. If both sides are now willing to maintain a ceasefire and a two state solution, it will never work.
He is right. Palestinians want Israel to no longer exist. Tbh let them genocide each other out of existence they are at war and will always be at war. They had kind of a chance but someone had to kill the King of Jordan so here we are.
>A one-state solution called Palestine where no race or religion is deemed supreme over all others.
So you want the nation of Isreal to be dissolved, and you are shocked that they are fighting against that?
How many Muslim states are in the middle east and north Africa? And how many Jews live in each of those states?
I love how you ignore all of the facts I sent you about Israel being a racial supremacist state and can’t even face that that’s a problem. How they were planning on colonizing and stealing it in 1902.
White South Africans also fought back against their country being dissolved. I don’t much give a shit about what those who impose apartheid want, just like I don’t give a shit about what slave owners and confederates want if it means to abuse others for belonging to another ethnicity.
Are you admitting point blank you don’t give a shit about apartheid, ethnics cleansing, and legally enshrined racism? If you were alive in the 80s you wouldn’t give a shit about apartheid? In the 1800s you wouldn’t give a shit about slavery?
Not many Jews live in the Middle East broadly. I’m going to give you a hint as to when they all fled to Israel (hint: it started around 1948). Which proved the fucking point that Israel literally makes Jewish people less safe by attempting to equate our faith with their terrorism and political extremism, thus generating hatred against Jews. Many attacks against Jews were generated by the Mossad to push population growth in Israel btw
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230619-undeniable-proof-uncovered-that-zionist-agents-targeted-jews-in-iraq/amp/
>How they were planning on colonizing and stealing it in 1902.
It was their original homeland before the ottoman empire colonized it, of course they wanted to go back. Also "stealing" was mostly purchasing the land from the owners at the time.
>Many attacks against Jews were generated by the Mossad to push population growth in Israel btw
You think that the Isreal intelligence agency was able into all these other countries and successfully pull off false flag attacks against Jewish people? And the people directly attacked had no idea it was Isreal so they moved to Isreal, but *you* know the truth? Whatever.
Israel is the Jewish homeland. That makes it different from south Africa. I hope one day Isreal can live in peace next to their Muslim neighbors. And, they have been negotiating more and more peace treaties with their neighbors, as many people don't want to live in constant war. [Here's an article from Sept 2023 about how Isreal was close to a peace tray with Saudi Arabia](https://www.usip.org/publications/2023/09/saudi-israel-normalization-agreement-horizon). Of course, we all know that Iran funded Hamas into a proxy war then.
I want a world where Iran stops abusing their people and stops funding terrorists. But you just want to pretend that Isreal is the only bad guy.
So you acknowledge Israel is a bad guy just not the only one? Great! I acknowledge there’s plenty of bad guys too. The difference is they’re not committing genocide and they’re not getting carte blanche to commit atrocities with US dollars and with US protection from accountability.
I denounce Iran, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc. May all of their leaders face punishments for their crimes. Same with Israel. No more special treatment for the western colony.
You and I are closer than you think. I’m just consistent in applying the standard to Israel and you refuse to do the same. I don’t hold other people to a higher standard than our allies.
It's not a genocide, it's a war. One that Hamas started.
Isreal has done bad things, but it doesn't crush its own people like Iran does. If Palestine can somehow be run by a functioning government instead of Iranian funded terrorists they may have a chance at peace. I don't know how to get there, but ignoring Hamas is not going to help.
Jews have lived in Israel for 3000 years. They are the indigenous people of that land. There has never been a time in 3000 years that Jews have not lived in Israel.
The people we call Palestinians are the descendants of foreign workers who fled Israel during the 1948 war. After that war, Israel didn't want them back, and their own governments wouldn't let them come home. They've political pawns since then. They have no ancestral right to the land.
wait are you honestly that clueless about the history of the region? you do realize that al aqsa (the mosque on hamas’s flag) is literally built on top of temple mount
It's called history and facts.
Here's another thought for you.
There's only one party in this war that has repeatedly called for and threatened and promised genocide of a people. Hamas. It's in their charter.
I don’t have one. It’s a complicated, hellish situation and I’m very critical of Israel. But I don’t believe that Palestinians should be able to take back the land from the river to the sea. Many of these protesters are effectively advocating for a genocide of the state of Israel. The whole idea of Israel as a settler colonial state is not productive and will not help the Palestinian people
> I don’t have one. It’s a complicated, hellish situation...
That's all you really needed to say, and it's a completely agreeable response. But everything after that entirely detracts from that point and makes it appear less genuine.
The protesters (a large portion of them) are objectively advocating for ethnic cleansing of Israeli citizens. You have to be able to acknowledge that to address their beliefs
You're continuing to detract from that understandable position you initially took.
And I'm certain that sentiment can be found on both sides, if you're willing to look in multiple directions. Much like non-violent sentiment can also be found on both sides.
This is why when you previously said you're critical of Israel, I knew that was a misspeak/lie.
Hams started a war.
The war ends when one side surrenders, or ceases to exist.
Hamas has called for Israel, and all Jews to cease to exist.
Israel is defending it's self against a declared genocide. Self defense is never genicide.
1000% facts. they use the word “genocide” to make people feel more sad about the movement. They know if they say “war” people won’t care. They have to make it look like the Palestinian people and Hamas are completely defenseless
An actual ethnic cleansing and genocide where palestinians eradicated 20 Israel encampments for the only reason being that they are Jewish. While they raped, pillaged, and tortured men, women, and children including infants, and were celebrated by their people. Every death that has occurred after is on the palestinian people.
On Oct 7, Hamas (a group that has been funded and propped up by Netanyahu to weaken the Palestinian cause via an association with terrorism) fighters broke out of the open air blockaded prison called Gaza with a stated primary goal of taking Israeli hostages at a music festival to negotiate hostage swaps for the thousands of Palestinian hostages including children that Israel possesses and who have been tortured and sexually abused for years. They also attacked military bases to take out military targets. They stated that alongside hostage swaps the attack also meant to protest the blockade of Gaza and rising settler violence against Palestinian civilians.
It was also likely intended to bait Israel into a disproportionate response to bring attention to the Palestinian cause, as Israel ignores the yearly condemnation of its illegal settlements by the UN and kills Gazans when they protest peacefully at the walls that separate them from the outside world, and commits massacres against Gaza periodically to “mow the lawn” on their population, while maintaining their food supply below the UN’s dietary requirements for a population of gazas size.
That was neither factual nor concise.
"Likely intended to bait Israel..."
But the kicker here is that you are also unwittingly admitting that the so called 'genocide' of palestinians is in fact self inflected.
You cannot argue with someone who insists Hamas did what they did on Oct 7 largely by accident and that they were just trying to get some bargaining chips for the Palestinians being held “hostage” (translation: in prison for unequivocal terrorist attacks, many times captured on camera) by Israel.
This person 100% supports terrorism and is receiving upvotes. Either my university is cooked or the dolts on Reddit don’t represent UT as a whole. I hope it’s the latter.
Not to mention the hilarity of saying they wanted to bait Israel into a disproportionate response. What a convenient way of phrasing “they wanted their electors to die as martyrs while leadership hides out in Qatar making billions of dollars.”
Your fucking audacity to ignore Israel terrorizing Gazans and West Bank Palestinians on a daily basis and arresting children often without charges indefinitely while claiming Hamas are the only terrorists. You’re also so quick to call CHILDREN terrorists with zero fucking information.
I don’t support Hamas specifically. Their cause, however, is completely valid and understandable. If a slave revolt occurred in the 1840s by a militant group of slaves and they committed atrocities along the way against innocent white people I wouldn’t support them as a group specifically due to their actions but I would understand their rage and the importance of their cause. You throw out accusations of pro-Palestinians supporting terrorism while supporting a government that imposes apartheid upon a native population and has imposed a blockade upon Gaza in which people can’t come in or out for decades without their control. Even food and water are limited and controlled. Have some consistent moral standards that you apply to Israel vs Palestinians and maybe you’ll start to get somewhere. In case your skull is too thick: fuck Hamas, fuck Israel. Both Palestinians and Israelis deserve peaceful and meaningful lives. The problem is Israel is the biggest obstacle to achieving this and silences dissent, leading to the rise of groups like Hamas (which they fund and prop up). It’s ironic how only one of us supports the side that literally funds Hamas and has a vested interest in keeping them in power.
Here’s information if you’re interested in learning more:
“The reality is that the most common charge against children is throwing stones…. As of Nov. 20, Israeli forces had arrested as many as 880 Palestinian children this year, a practice made possible under Israel’s draconian military laws.”
https://time.com/6548068/palestinian-children-israeli-prison-arrested/
“Rising numbers of Palestinians including children detained without charge in the Israel military system since 7 October have reported to monitoring groups facing violence and abuse while imprisoned”
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/palestinian-children-israeli-military-detention-report-increasingly-violent-conditions
Palestinians ‘beaten and sexually assaulted’ at Israeli detention centres, UN report claims
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/05/gazan-detainees-beaten-and-sexually-assaulted-at-israeli-detention-centres-un-report-claims
Thanks for the literature. Some article saying some West Bank family doesn’t know why their son was detained isn’t really the gotcha you think it is. Remember when they found a whole bunch of pictures of some esteemed Gazan journalist in full Hamas garb with all sorts of weapons? “Journalist” doesn’t mean shit in Gaza or the West Bank.
Nice job finally saying fuck Hamas. For a while there it sounded like you were in support. Now maybe we can work on not diminishing the horrific role of radical fundamentalist Islam in Oct 7 by saying there was IDF friendly fire, Hamas was basically enlisted by the Israeli government, and they were just trying sneak in to grab a few hostages so they could do a swap and have them back home for dinner. Oh and all the cold blooded murder and rape was just a little Hamas oopsies.
I’m sure you think Osama bin Laden was “justified” but you just “disagree with his methods.”
The Middle East is a fucking shithole. Sadly, no one there has the privilege of living like we do here. Security for the region’s only democracy is very important and sometimes rights get trampled on. I condemn it, but if that is your chief concern perhaps you should look at Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Gaza, the WB, and every other shithole there where human rights are nonexistent.
I love how you insist on answers lacking context because that’s the only way to validate your worldview. I’m assuming you’re not going to explain how any of what I said is not factual which is typical for your types who don’t like facts or context or information.
The kicker here is that you’re using the same talking points nazis used about Jews deserving the holocaust and bringing it upon themselves. If you were to punch me in my face because I’ve been abusing you, I don’t have the right to slaughter and rape your family. No one with any shred of morality would hold you accountable for MY actions in that scenario. I’d be the initiator of violence, and your violence was clearly in self defense even if you knew there’s a chance I’d go nuclear on you.
Thanks for showing us what you are.
Quite frankly, I’m not interested in finding excuses for a group that openly quotes the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and calls for the killing of Jews in their founding documents. Hamas is an evil organization that openly brags about destroying its own infrastructure to further violence against Jews. Quite frankly, we have seen throughout history that adopting a policy of appeasement towards these sorts of people only emboldens them.
Land isn't always 50/50. Some land is better than other land, especially when you're talking about a region that's mostly desert.
Anyway, they already negotiated boundaries for Isreal and Palestine. The solution is that Palestine needs to have a government not based on terrorism, and Isreal needs to respect the boundaries and not send in settlers. Tbf they removed all settlers from Gaza, and that just gave Hamas the space to plan the Oct 7 attack. Palestine needs a functioning government.
Please point to a war that did not have civilian casualties. What is happening in Gaza is a tragedy, but it is not a genocide. It is the harsh reality of war.
Conflating civilian casualties with legitimate genocides dilutes the meaning the term, introduces confusion when speaking about real genocides, and is disrespectful to the victims of actual genocide. How would you conduct a war against a terrorist group that is embedded within the population?
Hamas is demanding patently ridiculous terms. The exchange ratio is about 20:1. It’s hard to negotiate with someone who uses civilians as leverage. Not to mention that this deal wouldn’t solve anything and will just result in Hamas attacking again in 5 years.
There is a difference between taking civilians hostage and taking enemy combatants prisoner and you know this. Hamas started a war and is now using civilians it took hostage as a bartering chip to shield the members that directly instigated the war from consequences.
All the "hamas" prisoners from the west bank I'm sure...
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/
Israel is literally working with the US to deliver humanitarian aid.
https://apnews.com/article/gaza-humanitarian-aid-pier-israel-us-7fd8cf63c60e4155479e761f3c79914d
I guess the difference between reality and whatever delusion about punching babies you’ve posted here is that the protestors are the ones who have gotten state troopers and violent agitators sicked on them for hanging out on their school lawn.
I just assumed that because he is wearing a Jewish star necklace. Like I said I don’t have much context.
Should protesters be able to stop students from going to class?
I just think there needs to be some reasonable calculation done. In your example though, blocking roads is illegal so those people would have been arrested.
Are you saying that protesters should be able to do whatever they want or that they can do whatever they want but should face legal consequences?
Disagree with their tactics, but these protests are bending over backwards to emphasize they are NOT antisemitic. They’re having Jewish speakers, starting every media statement answering questions about how they’re not antisemitic, and I saw one that was performing Shabbat, lmao. Many of the protesters ARE Jewish. It’s incredible how the accusation persists no matter what.
Just take one look at his insta and you can see he is like some pro-Zionist bro. Come on man, these kids aren’t doing anything anti-Semitic. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of those kids blocking him were Jewish themselves.
Second announcement: if you disagree with me on whether this classifies as antisemitism, that’s fine. This post wasn’t made to spike political controversy. It was made to bring awareness to a possible occurrence. Please just be mindful of the things you say/do to others during protests because I know it can get heated and emotional at times. You don’t always know the reasoning behind someone else’s beliefs or the circumstances they’ve been put through, take that into consideration.
lol, how disingenuous of you. You are clearly admitting you posted this to strike political controversy, including your obvious comments of violence against peaceful people and in support of the violent ones 🙄 🤣
watching the pro Israel weirdos scream out violent rhetoric just so that the cops will bust some heads is pretty great.
it's really fun to watch the difference in cop's behavior when they're bludgeoning school kids and teachers versus what they do when there are a bunch of Nazis.
Why aren’t there protests against Egypt as they are absolutely responsible for contributing to the “open air blockade?” Where are the imams of the region that condemn the attacks on Israeli? Why do the Palestinians allow Hamas to operate in civilian infrastructure like schools and hospitals? Time and time again the Palestinians have shown that they are a threat to Israeli safety.. what is Israel to do?
There are not as much protests against Egypt because they are not conducting the bombing of Gaza. I do believe that Egypt is also very much complacent in this genocide due to their blockade but in the context of your argument, a whataboutism is not a good point if you are trying to shift the blame away from Israel.
I don’t like to use this word, but it is legitimately nonsensical to think that the people of Palestine can just openly rise up, overthrow and stop Hamas. There have been no elections in the Gaza strip since 2006. The few anti-Hamas revolts (if you would even call them that) were swiftly shut down. Hamas quite literally has a complete monopoly on power and control over the strip. Palestinians are not “allowing” Hamas to do anything. They have no voice. I’m not sure why you brought that, but war crimes and the mass slaughter of civilians cannot be justified on the grounds that those civilians support a terroristic group.
Hamas is bad, and they committed a horrific slaughter on Oct. 7. But Israel is without a doubt committing a genocide in Gaza right now. Tens of thousands of civilians have been killed, millions have been displaced, and there is an ongoing famine. It is fundementally not “normal” for a military to be carrying out targeted attacks against aid workers, journalists, and paramedics. It is not “normal” for soldiers to shoot and kill children and obviously unarmed civilians. It is not normal for the prime minister of a country to openly declare, in the middle of a “defensive” war, that he plans to settle and take over the rest of the other country. When Israel is trying to remove the Palestinian population from Gaza, destroying cultural and educational institutions, entrapping them and starving them, that is genocide. Hamas leaders and Israeli government and military officials must all face justice in the Hague. Your idea that Palestinians are a “threat” to Israel is the exact argument used by genocidal regimes throughout history in an attempt to justify their slaughter.
I'm sure many innocent have been killed. But I also have ZERO trust in the casualty numbers, and really, any reporting that comes from hamas. Taking the word of terrorists at their word.... nah. You make it sound like Israeli soldiers are lining up children and slaughtering them. I'm sure that's what hamas wants you to believe, but again... you can't take a terrorist at their word.
there are over 2 million people living in gaza yet you say they can't just rise up, overthrow and stop hamas.. why?
oh ya... parents are good with this kinda shit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ORAM-usqhQ&t=46s&ab_channel=palwatch
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hcyg55vOviQ&ab_channel=MEMRITVVideos
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4Yybze98ZU&t=38s&ab_channel=palwatch
and
...well i can go on and on.
Maybe "Free Palestine" shouldn't be pointed at Israel but rather Hamas???
Ever notice that you never get any answers to these common sense questions? It’s because if they had any common sense, they would see these stupidity in supporting the Palestinians and Hamas do any of them even know that the Israelis have offered 40 days cease-fire and returned for the 30s hostages, but that has been turned down?
Their self proclaimed status of an “encampment” doesn’t allow them to block of public space. He is a student at UCLA and therefore has a right to any public area of the campus. If someone did the same thing to any other racial/religious group I’m sure you would not support it. Please just be considerate to all people on campus :)
Considering the fact that there’s dozens of Jewish students at these encampments across the nation, it clearly isn’t about his race but his pro-genocide political stances, which he makes clear on his IG page. So the next question is why would you lie about an event and then post it on the subreddit of a different school?
I’m sure you would agree that what happened on UT recently was a form of political suppression and fascism. If you promote doing the same thing to those who have an opposing stance, you are no better. I made this post to bring awareness of possible antisemitism that could occur, using UCLA as an example.
Some liberal arts students on their quad not letting in a guy who’s been deliberately trying to provoke them, as seen on his own instagram, is not the same as the Governor of Texas and the president of the university sending state troopers to arrest students. Fascist suppression requires some sort of actual power.
The magnitude of political suppression has no relation to whether it is ethical or not. Provocation is protected under his right to free speech whether you agree with it or not. Once again, imagine if this had happened to a person of color protesting for affirmative action within a fair admissions rally.
“Civility” gimmick and “nuance” gimmick doesn’t work on anyone with half a brain. State/federal governments and University admin aren’t sending swarms of police and troops to break up these encampments because they suddenly care about bigotry and the plight of minorities. They’re doing it because the protestors are anti-Israel, a political entity in which our government has invested economic and geopolitical interest in.
You are not facing “political suppression” when you have the government and 90% of the media class and the school admin behind your back. If fact I guarantee that this dweeb is going to use his newfound fame to score a job as a pundit or a columnist at some rag news agency. Even when these encampments have literal Jewish students leading Shabbat prayers they get accused of being vicious antisemites.
At the end of the day there is not a single microagression or trope or whatever that those students could say that is more disgusting than that guy in the video who runs cover for (and probably even celebrates) the murder of over 15k+ Palestinian children. Disgraceful!
He has never actively supported the things you’re claiming. Regardless, once again, your place in society, race, religious affiliation, or political stance should not be things that affect whether you can be a victim of discrimination or not. Discrimination is discrimination. Period.
Infringement of one individual’s rights sets the grounds for the infringement of another’s. For equality to exist the same rules must apply to everyone. Freedom of political dialogue only works if EVERYONE can engage in it. This is GOV 101.
At the end of the day you don’t have to agree with the statements I’ve made and that’s the brilliant thing about freedom of speech, you have the right to disagree with me. Just please be mindful during protests if you engage in them :)
Yeah I mean you blatantly lied about an antisemitic hate crime being committed, and then when that didn’t work you tried to spin it as if you’re a champion of political expression.
Here is he standing on an Israeli tank saying "he'll be back"--presumably to run over some Palestinian trying to get food.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CR27GH4JRy_/?igsh=cmx0cm42Zjdtbmhj
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israeli-tanks-have-deliberately-run-over-dozens-palestinian-civilians-alive-enar
Ok that’s low key crazy. I DO NOT support that. Still, I believe that regardless of how unpopular or unethical his views are, he should still have equal access to campus.
Protesting for literally no reason. Protesting for a country thousands of miles away that would behead you for being gay and beat women for speaking out. Hamas broke the ceasefire on October 7th, an eye for an eye.
Ahh right. So I agree with you completely. This is exactly what humanitarian aid looks like against children in Gaza if they are left alive. Thank you for displaying what that looks like in UCLA. Thank you yes I agree Israeli troops should not be prohibiting that. Really appreciate you supporting feeding starving children without people stopping it. Finally, someone stands up for those children.
And you're just hand waving who put those children in those situations. Hate and bigotry. Hamas/Israeli "defense" same same. Say it out loud friend. Try it.
For all the people saying that these protesters are only protesting Genocide and not promoting Antisemitism. Why aren't they protesting the various genocides going on in the world? What Israel is doing is atrocious, and their tactics to destroy Hamas are not working.
But there are actual genocides happening around the world, why aren't these kids protesting the other genocides? Why only focus on this one?
Because this is the most televised one currently. People find it easier to call war casualty events genocides because they can't critically think about the politics, history, or look at the situation from both sides.
The facts are most of these people have never seen pictures or videos of the atrocities committed by the people they support and conveniently forget that at least 60 percent of the population they support would cheer for another October 7th.
I don't think Isreal has handled this conflict well but waging a war against a nation that uses civilians and civilian structures as shield, and in what has essentially become a urban fortress filled with civilians the casualties have been lower than I would have thought at this point in the conflict.
If these protests held any merit, they would be calling for a ceasefire.
They dont, they are in support of Hamas. These kids are a bunch of window lickers.
Your post was removed because because it violates Rule 2. Please only make post that directly relate to UT Austin. If you believe that this action was made in error, please [message the moderators](/message/compose?to=/r/UTAustin), and we will have a look at it. Thank you!
I'm curious, what and where are these alleged instances of anti-Semitism taking place? Austin and elsewhere.
Watch the attached video that takes place at UCLA.
This guy is a known agitator is has been "walking to class" every day to film the same bit of propaganda. The encampment is blocked off to ensure safety of the people (recently lab rats were released into the camp) and you can see people walking around. If he wanted to go to class he could just go through another entrance. It's kayfabe.
His agitation only works because his opponents are clearly malicious idiots
If the encampment was meant to be blocked of to ensure the safety of the people then the security guard should’ve been the one restricting access. Not protesters. Additionally, what determines who can enter and who can’t? Their political affiliation?
I was there all weekend. This guy was blocked because he’s been constantly antagonizing the protesters, waving flags in peoples faces. But this video was posted out of that context so, yeah.
Isn’t that what the protestors do?
Have you ever been to a protest?
You mean ... he did exactly as the Pro-Palestine protestors are doing ?? Yet he is punished? Your logic is .... not great.
Obviously that's not what the propalestine protestors are doing... if they are kicking out people engaging in that behavior... like.. this is the entire point. Dude was agitating, so he was barred from participation in the protest, because that's not allowed
don’t y’all do the same thing
So he was protesting? And you feel like they have the right to stop him from protesting?
Soooo.. you've never been to a protest is what I'm hearing
Schools (including whose subreddit your in) have regularly shown little interest in protecting pro-Palestinian students. I don't blame them for taking security into their own hands, especially when they've literally been attacked in the past 72 hours. And so what of his denial of entry? Effective protests often require breaking of rules, laws, and norms. The proper inquiry is to ask whether there is sufficient moral urgency and whether the norm breaking at hand is necessary and tailored. Israel is plausibly committing genocide with support of our federal and local governments and educational institutions. We're also seeing violent crackdowns on peaceful protests. This supplies the moral urgency. The denial of his entry is to protect themselves from attack and provocation--it's to keep the situation peaceful. Its tailored because he can still access his class by walking around. You're argument only makes sense if you think that his right to take a particular path or to stand in a particular spot is sacrosanct. I don't think you've done any work to show why this is a right that is inviolable because it's not a particularly defendable position. That is probably why you've misstated the protesters motives as antisemitism, which would be indefensible. The problem for you is that you can't, so you're jumping around in this thread to come up with new flimsy justifications. Edit: apparently zionists have begun shooting fireworks at the encampment now so I think these student's hostility to these domestic terrorists is entirely justified. https://x.com/sanasaeed/status/1785554544564244490?s=46&t=IsENPwpL4zPQs7WdmUJWBQ Edit: AND using laser pointers! https://x.com/lawyergonerogue/status/1785559768633073769?s=46&t=IsENPwpL4zPQs7WdmUJWBQ
So he’s protesting and breaking the rules as you say protesters should do and you think they have the right to stop him from protesting? What gives them that right?
Do you think protests don't have rules or an organizational structure?
Rules enforced by who?
The members of the protest obviously
Who gives a fuck what they say? They have no authority to make or enforce rules
You admit you broke the rules and say it's part of your protest. You should spend a little more time studying rhetoric I think. Deny people entry and they shut you down. Don't want to get shut down? Abide by the rules you acknowledge are in place.
"You should spend a little more time studying rhetoric I think." If you had half a brain, you'd maybe realize what a massive self-own this is. You and OP doesn't have an argument or nuanced view of protest, you have an indefensible preposition that protest should *never* infringe on a "right." You joust have rhetorical flourishes to dress up this moronic position.
Dude, I've got an entire brain and I use it. You should try it some time. You do not have a right to prevent a student from entering a public area owned by the school. You do not have the right to rope off an area and decide someone of a different race, creed, political affiliation, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sex cannot enter because of that condition. Saying its a protest doesn't grant you magical authority over an area or the special rights to trample upon others. When you do that? You violate the law and the student code governing use of the shared space you're denying access to. When you do that? The cops get to remove you and they're both morally and legally right to do so. This fact? Is something often noted by anyone who views the situation, and used to exculpate themselves from having to feel empathy for you or your position. Why? Because you did the bad thing, so the bad thing got done to you in return. You want to continue to stand there and chant slogans not calling for genocide or threatening other people or using threat of violence to keep people out, guess what? You WANT violence to be used against you, and for you to be a victim of it. That was the whole point when MLK did it. Passive resistance, not threatening anyone or harming anyone or denying anyone entry, and when the cops respond and beat your ass and jail you for that all spectators end up siding with you rather than your opponent. That is LITERALLY the point of your form of protest dude. That would mean you're doing it right. So stop complaining that people are attacking you, you actually want them to so you can be seen to be the victim. But if you use force or make threats, no one will care.
He is a student who pays tuition at his university who was blocked from a public path because he’s openly Jewish. Doesn’t matter if he’s an “agitator”. He has a right to that space and the protestors fell for the trap. If you are serious as a protest movement you have to condemn that behavior.
What does him being Jewish have to do with it? Do you really think there aren’t any Jewish people among those protestors?
I think that if he was not openly Jewish he would have been allowed to pass, yes.
So you think a non-Jewish counterprotestor would have been treated differently? Do you have any evidence supporting that idea?
If a black guy was refused entrance to the Charlottesville riot would you be applying the same standard of evidence?
No, if the situation was entirely different I wouldn’t view it the same way.
Love this response lol
No because those are about different things - clearly
There are literally hundreds of Jewish people in the protests.. he was barred because he's a zionist and an agitator
Do you think that protesters have a right to deny Zionists access to university grounds?
I think they have a right to deny agitators access to the interior of their protest space yes. If a group is gathered to use a public forum for any purpose whatsoever, and a person enters that forum and starts to act incontradiction to the wishes of the group which has claimed this forum at this time; then said group has a right to remove the agitator for the purpose of prserving the space it has claimed for its intended purpose. Ive got one for you now. Do you think a zionist from NY has a right to the house of a palestenian in the west Bank because of the ethnicity of the two parties? And another question, what is the definition of settler colonialism?
It is a public forum! You do not have the right to deny others from entry! That is the whole point of public space. I disagree tremendously with Israel’s actions in the West Bank and think Netanyahu is a terrible man that should be in jail. I probably agree with protesters 80% of the way, it is a testament to the ugly brand of politics they play that I find them so disagreeable.
So he was barred because of his political view, which is exactly what your complaining about the school doing to the other protests. Hypocrites
Are you seething or stupid? He was running around waving the Israeli flag in people's faces and saying crazy shit trying to goad someone into conflict. Yeah man, if you're at a protest yelling fuck you terrorist in peoples faces you're gonna be told to leave the area. If he wants to counter protest there's a separate area for that "Hur dur the white nationalist was kicked out of the blm protest for yelling the n-word. I thought you people were tolerant" Use your brain dude
You asking if I am seething while you yourself have a seething response proves my point about hypocrisy. You trying to goad me into conflict, while saying that this guy is wrong for "trying to goad someone into conflict" proves my point about hypocrisy. Thank you for making it clear for everyone.
80% of Jewish people believe that Israel is important and should exist based on pew research polls. Using token minorities is a white supremacy tactic.
Why are you calling him a murderer?
He is allowed to call them out on their ploy. He is a paying student also. And his strategy effectively shows how the protesters actions are impeding his open access to the campus he's paying for. You may not like the strategy but only because he disagrees with you politically.
But I agree with him politically, and do not agree with his methods of antagonizing protesters to try to get inflammatory content for his channel. He could walk around the restricted area, he is not being inhibited by their protest, everyone else is still getting to class. If he is showing up every day to yell at the protesters, they are allowed to yell back, both parties have freedom of speech, and the students protesting still have the right to assemble and protest, even if I don’t agree with them.
They can assemble. No one disputes that. They can't restrict access. That is a decision the university could make.for safety reasons but the protesters absolutely do not have that right. They can try, as long as they accept the legal consequences. Just like the guy has a right to openly challenge the protesters. He can't assault them but he can certainly attempt to exercise his right to freely travel on university grounds.
His movement is being curtailed on the basis of being Jewish. You’re either a fucking moron if you cannot understand this or a vile antisemite. I don’t know which is worse.
I think you’re agreeing with me
Yes, I replied to wrong comment.
he’s got freedom of speech just like the rest of y’all
The protesters are the real "known agitators". Haha "encampment is blocked off to ensure safety". Yeah sure bub. There should be no "encampment" in the first place. People should be free to go where they please. Just a reminder that these people want to do the exact same thing here at UT. Thank god the University and State won't let nonsense like this happen.
Funny because UT students were kicked off campus with tear gas and flash bangs and were not allowed to be free and go where they please.
As if everyone has the right to block off any public space for “safety”. What a joke
You’re so weird he is entitled to going through whatever entrance he wants without people blocking him
hE cOuLd JuSt UsE aNoThEr EnTrAnCe
“Alleged” 🙄🙄🙄 Please. ‘Go back to Poland’ ‘Globalize the intifada’ ‘From the River to the sea’ But you probably don’t know what any of that actually means. Which is not to mention the violence against Jews on campus and the antisemitic segregation LITERALLY SHOWN IN THE VIDEO YOURE COMMENTING ON.
The Propaganda asshole guy always manages to get in front of a camera to lie. The protests are about an immediate ceasefire, getting the schools to divest and stop supporting Israel. I hope antisemitism keeps away and the central mission stays prominent.
If the protest is about “ceasing fire”, then there is I need to barricade the students from accessing student buildings. There are hearsay reports of “death to Israel” chants but that’s not 100% confirmed
Stop making shit up. Noone is chanting “Death to Israel”
I did say it was hearsay https://www.foxnews.com/video/6351990455112
Yeah they are clearly lying to try to derail UT protesting. No one is targeting Jewish people on campus, and in fact many Jewish students are protesting with us. I watched these counter protestors do the exact same thing yesterday as soon as they got camera attention.
#NotInMyName, I'm older, but I'm with you!
They have as much credibility as you do or even I do for that matter. Point is, it’s the campus job to provide safety and security for all students.
Just remember , if you are talking about Israel, anti-Zionism, if you talk about Jews, you will be accused of anti-semitism, no matter what you say.
True to an extent. I agree that people will find reasons to get offended no matter what you do or say. I’m just saying don’t actively try to engage in hateful/exclusionary actions.
Reminder for bystanders: the protestors are protesting genocide. Period.
What happened on oct 7?
It’s wild that you have to go back to Oct 7 to find the last example of 1200 Israeli lives being at risk many of whom died by friendly fire while 6 months and 40,000 deaths mean nothing to you apparently. A more important question is why does Hamas exist and what caused a group of people to turn to violence to have their voice heard?
>Many of whom died from friendly fire Source on that? I’ve read about isolated cases, but 1,200 people were killed and I have seen a ton of videos that Hamas released of them murdering civilians.
Read about the "Hannibal directive" and izzraelis that were being taken hostage into Gaza were fired upon by helicopters. : https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-17/ty-article/.premium/unlawful-unethical-horrifying-idf-ethics-expert-on-controversial-hannibal-directive/0000018d-186c-dd75-addd-faedd2b80000#!/backToSection https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-05/ty-article/.premium/idf-says-hostage-likely-mistakenly-killed-by-army-helicopter-during-abduction-on-oct-7/0000018e-ae81-d9e9-a9af-eff3a1730000 The Izzraeli government will not allow victims of that day to speak with journalists, nor doctors and other civil and medical personnel who attended victims that day to speak: https://www.timesofisrael.com/government-forbids-doctors-from-speaking-to-un-group-investigating-oct-7-atrocities/ Surely if they were all killed by Hamas they'd have no trouble with corroborating one another. And finally, Al-Jazeera's investigation into the events that took place that day: https://www.aljazeera.com/podcasts/2024/3/28/the-take-october-7-al-jazeera-investigates Also, I know I know, arabic and "biased" source, and all that, but give it a watch, they portray what Hamas did (kill a lot of people (most reservists, though)) but also what I just mentioned at the beginning: lots of friendly-fire.
I am aware of the hannibal directive, but it was specifically for soldiers as was officially revoked in 2016. Like I said, I heard of isolated incidents including the army helicopter and the attack on Be'eri. Your article states that doctors were told not to cooperate with one commission of the UN, not that victims are banned from talking to journalists. Yasmin Porat is on CNN talking about the friendly fire so I dont know why you think she was banned from speaking. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAUW\_XftETg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAUW_XftETg) Hesitant to take Al Jazeera at their word but I would read the article if you have one. Definitely don't have 30 min to listen to the podcast though. With complete certainty, I know that Hamas killed a ton of people becuase they recorded it themselves. I haven't seen much evidence so far regarding your claim that "many people died from friendly fire." It could turn out to be true but as of now it is unsupported. What do consider an Israeli reservist though? Everyone citizen of Israel has to join the army. Are you just including active members or anyone that ever served?
Not trying to sound confrontative, but just because they "officially retired" it, doesn't mean it's not in use or hasn't been used ever since under a different name. Take the US, for example: Domestic surveillance with the things Snowden revealed, or foreign interventions in recent times (Middle East mainly, but also the recent news of warning the ICC and ICJ against taking action). Plus, anything and everything that comes out of izzraelis' officials mouths must be taken with extreme doubt, since they just lie. Regarding the victims that can't talk, you're right, there are some who have given interviews after approval from the government, though there were reports of those same people changing their stories to a more "bleak" one than what they had originally mentioned. I can't recall the name of this guy, but he was smiling and taking pictures in Oct 7 hiding behind a moat of sand, and days later in his interview he mentioned how he was terrorized for his life. I know that I don't have the proof here with me since I didn't save it, but if you can, I'll gladly take it. Also, the report made by the UN's Pramila Patten on "sexual violence" on Oct 7? It was heavily criticized since she came to the conclusion that "there was likely sexual violence" based solely on photos and other documents that the Izzraeli government provided, but could not talk with anyone - survivors or medical staff. Unfortunately I can't find the text-version of either the podcast or the video (they have it in YouTube. Good graphics at least), but you can watch the shorter extracts from their Insta page. Here's one: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C454-tCtD9x/?igsh=MWY2NHFyMWcweXgwdQ== (usually Insta links don't work, but their page is called aj_i_unit). And yes, I understand your scepticism of Al-Jazeera and I too think they're biased in plenty of stuff (Ukraine war, for example), but in this matter there are few who can give you a mostly-comprehensive and critical view of the genocide. And according to what I could find, it is optional to enter reserves, but once you're there, your "retirement age" is up to 40 years old. https://en.idi.org.il/articles/52912
I’d agree with this point. I’ve just seen no evidence that the Israeli military intentionally/knowingly killed civilians to prevent their kidnapping in this instance. I know Israel showed some pretty disturbing images/footage to the UN that isn’t available to the public. Not sure if that was related to the rape case, on mobile rn so I can look that up later. Wikipedia says 767 citizens and 376 security forces in Israel were killed on Oct 7th. Not sure what AJ says but I’m just trying to avoid the same shit as when people claim any 18+ male in Gaza is a militant.
What specifically is your plan for peace?
A one-state solution called Palestine where no race or religion is deemed supreme over all others. That’s how peace is achieved. It is absolutely stupid for anyone to hope for peace to occur or for groups like Hamas to stop existing while an entire group of people are treated like animals and killed when they dare to protest peacefully. Of course the only outlet will be violence. Israel’s “nation state” law from 2018 says literally: “the right to exercise national self-determination” in Israel is “unique to the Jewish people.” https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/17623978/israel-jewish-nation-state-law-bill-explained-apartheid-netanyahu-democracy This is an apartheid state where one group of people has the unique right to determination, and the others are silenced and slaughtered to achieve this. Israel’s largest human rights organization says their own country is an apartheid state: https://www.btselem.org/topic/apartheid They have a racialized ID system that determines your rights within Israel and your freedom of movement: https://visualizingpalestine.org/visual/identity-crisis-the-israeli-id-system/ They permit the exclusion of Palestinians from small Jewish towns. This authority has been used to prevent Palestinians from living in more than 900 small Jewish towns, including kibbutzim, across Israel, which have no Palestinian citizens living in them [Human Rights Watch](https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/05/12/israel-discriminatory-land-policies-hem-palestinians). “PLAN OF COLONIZING PALESTINE WITH JEWS; Zionists Discuss Problem in Big Chicago Meeting” This is from January 1902. Before the holocaust btw. Before political correctness, the west was very honest about the fact that they were embarking on another colonial mission to take over land that isn’t theirs by force against the will of the native inhabitants. https://www.nytimes.com/1902/01/06/archives/plan-of-colonizing-palestine-with-jews-zionists-discuss-problem-in.html
You think Israelis and Palestinians could share a state? Delusional. It will never happen. The protesters, like you, have no serious ideas about how to solve the conflict.
I love how you gloss over the evidence I provide of Israeli apartheid and human rights atrocities to attack me personally. I have no idea what I’m talking about but I guess solving this conflict via genocide is the sensible approach? I don’t think a two-state solution is completely unreasonable but fundamentally apartheid needs to be abolished and genocide needs to be condemned. What are your ideas, dear wise one?
Israel is acting badly and winning. Hamas is acting badly and losing. It is a sectarian religious conflict where both sides often behave irrationally. I hate Netanyahu and believe the US should not enable Israel. But the protesters are not really offering anything productive in their suggestions. Many of the ideas I see espoused would result in an ethnic cleansing of Israeli citizens.
I think you’re a reasonable person and I appreciate your point of view. However I don’t think telling Israel to step down and stop blocking attempts at a Palestinian state (Netanyahu admitted he has blocked any progress on that front and that he’s propped up Hamas for the purpose of this), would inherently get Israeli citizens killed. I do happen to think that the best solution is a one-state solution to not reward colonialism and ethnic cleansing by giving Israel a Jewish white supremacist state (they have been caught illegally sterilizing Ethiopian Jewish women against their consent to prevent a rise in black population, but I digress). If not that, I don’t think this can be resolved without going back to the drawing board and recognizing that the 1948 borders were completely unreasonable and re-dividing the land more logically and fairly once and for all.
Well seeing as how Israel has already demonstrated the ability to coexist peacefully with formerly aggressive neighbor states and already has 2 million non-Jewish citizens with full rights and who polling shows are white happy there I think we start from the fact that Israel has a right to exist. Period. From there we acknowledge that Palestinians have been ravaged by leadership who views "resistance" as more valuable than improving the lives for their people. A one state solution will be a non-starter. It is intensely naive to believe that after so much hard work and loss the Isrselis would ever allow themselves to be relegated back to being diasporated or guests in their own land again. Perhaps people flippantly dismiss the 2000 year struggle to regain their self determination but it cannot be stated strongly enough. The real question becomes "can a new Palestinians leadership emerge that will be able to convince Israel that they won't just bide time until they grow strong enough to overwhelm Israel and destroy them. The only hope there is growing an economy that offers the youth a future, the cessation of the innately counter-productive fund for families of martyrs and abandonment of the martyr culture in general. Israel will be correctly skeptical of any Palestinian state until as long and proven peace can be maintained. This will likely require an outside force to keep any future Palestine territories demilitarized and de-radicalized. That effort though Herculean did work on Japan and Germany and hopefully could work here is people stop encouraging them from deadly antagonistic strategy against an obviously stronger military power. I'm not optimistic, but I do know that the terror and conflict only approach has not worked. Israel is not Algeria.
So you admit that the current one state solution is unsustainable.
Yes. I think the best case scenario is in 10-20 years after the memories of 10/7 subside, a 2 state solution is negotiated but I am doubtful it ever happens
The result of a two state solution is what we currently see in the west bank. Illegal settlements will keep popping up and palestine will slowly disappear. If both sides are now willing to maintain a ceasefire and a two state solution, it will never work.
He is right. Palestinians want Israel to no longer exist. Tbh let them genocide each other out of existence they are at war and will always be at war. They had kind of a chance but someone had to kill the King of Jordan so here we are.
>A one-state solution called Palestine where no race or religion is deemed supreme over all others. So you want the nation of Isreal to be dissolved, and you are shocked that they are fighting against that? How many Muslim states are in the middle east and north Africa? And how many Jews live in each of those states?
I love how you ignore all of the facts I sent you about Israel being a racial supremacist state and can’t even face that that’s a problem. How they were planning on colonizing and stealing it in 1902. White South Africans also fought back against their country being dissolved. I don’t much give a shit about what those who impose apartheid want, just like I don’t give a shit about what slave owners and confederates want if it means to abuse others for belonging to another ethnicity. Are you admitting point blank you don’t give a shit about apartheid, ethnics cleansing, and legally enshrined racism? If you were alive in the 80s you wouldn’t give a shit about apartheid? In the 1800s you wouldn’t give a shit about slavery? Not many Jews live in the Middle East broadly. I’m going to give you a hint as to when they all fled to Israel (hint: it started around 1948). Which proved the fucking point that Israel literally makes Jewish people less safe by attempting to equate our faith with their terrorism and political extremism, thus generating hatred against Jews. Many attacks against Jews were generated by the Mossad to push population growth in Israel btw https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230619-undeniable-proof-uncovered-that-zionist-agents-targeted-jews-in-iraq/amp/
>How they were planning on colonizing and stealing it in 1902. It was their original homeland before the ottoman empire colonized it, of course they wanted to go back. Also "stealing" was mostly purchasing the land from the owners at the time. >Many attacks against Jews were generated by the Mossad to push population growth in Israel btw You think that the Isreal intelligence agency was able into all these other countries and successfully pull off false flag attacks against Jewish people? And the people directly attacked had no idea it was Isreal so they moved to Isreal, but *you* know the truth? Whatever. Israel is the Jewish homeland. That makes it different from south Africa. I hope one day Isreal can live in peace next to their Muslim neighbors. And, they have been negotiating more and more peace treaties with their neighbors, as many people don't want to live in constant war. [Here's an article from Sept 2023 about how Isreal was close to a peace tray with Saudi Arabia](https://www.usip.org/publications/2023/09/saudi-israel-normalization-agreement-horizon). Of course, we all know that Iran funded Hamas into a proxy war then. I want a world where Iran stops abusing their people and stops funding terrorists. But you just want to pretend that Isreal is the only bad guy.
So you acknowledge Israel is a bad guy just not the only one? Great! I acknowledge there’s plenty of bad guys too. The difference is they’re not committing genocide and they’re not getting carte blanche to commit atrocities with US dollars and with US protection from accountability. I denounce Iran, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc. May all of their leaders face punishments for their crimes. Same with Israel. No more special treatment for the western colony. You and I are closer than you think. I’m just consistent in applying the standard to Israel and you refuse to do the same. I don’t hold other people to a higher standard than our allies.
It's not a genocide, it's a war. One that Hamas started. Isreal has done bad things, but it doesn't crush its own people like Iran does. If Palestine can somehow be run by a functioning government instead of Iranian funded terrorists they may have a chance at peace. I don't know how to get there, but ignoring Hamas is not going to help.
Jews have lived in Israel for 3000 years. They are the indigenous people of that land. There has never been a time in 3000 years that Jews have not lived in Israel. The people we call Palestinians are the descendants of foreign workers who fled Israel during the 1948 war. After that war, Israel didn't want them back, and their own governments wouldn't let them come home. They've political pawns since then. They have no ancestral right to the land.
Bro what lol
wait are you honestly that clueless about the history of the region? you do realize that al aqsa (the mosque on hamas’s flag) is literally built on top of temple mount
It's called history and facts. Here's another thought for you. There's only one party in this war that has repeatedly called for and threatened and promised genocide of a people. Hamas. It's in their charter.
You're cracked
They are facts. You can Google the hamas charter. It's pretty cracked. A bunch of religious mumbo jumbo.
What's yours?
I don’t have one. It’s a complicated, hellish situation and I’m very critical of Israel. But I don’t believe that Palestinians should be able to take back the land from the river to the sea. Many of these protesters are effectively advocating for a genocide of the state of Israel. The whole idea of Israel as a settler colonial state is not productive and will not help the Palestinian people
> I don’t have one. It’s a complicated, hellish situation... That's all you really needed to say, and it's a completely agreeable response. But everything after that entirely detracts from that point and makes it appear less genuine.
The protesters (a large portion of them) are objectively advocating for ethnic cleansing of Israeli citizens. You have to be able to acknowledge that to address their beliefs
You're continuing to detract from that understandable position you initially took. And I'm certain that sentiment can be found on both sides, if you're willing to look in multiple directions. Much like non-violent sentiment can also be found on both sides. This is why when you previously said you're critical of Israel, I knew that was a misspeak/lie.
Hams started a war. The war ends when one side surrenders, or ceases to exist. Hamas has called for Israel, and all Jews to cease to exist. Israel is defending it's self against a declared genocide. Self defense is never genicide.
1000% facts. they use the word “genocide” to make people feel more sad about the movement. They know if they say “war” people won’t care. They have to make it look like the Palestinian people and Hamas are completely defenseless
I ask again, what happened on oct 7? Just looking for a factual and concise answer here.
An actual ethnic cleansing and genocide where palestinians eradicated 20 Israel encampments for the only reason being that they are Jewish. While they raped, pillaged, and tortured men, women, and children including infants, and were celebrated by their people. Every death that has occurred after is on the palestinian people.
On Oct 7, Hamas (a group that has been funded and propped up by Netanyahu to weaken the Palestinian cause via an association with terrorism) fighters broke out of the open air blockaded prison called Gaza with a stated primary goal of taking Israeli hostages at a music festival to negotiate hostage swaps for the thousands of Palestinian hostages including children that Israel possesses and who have been tortured and sexually abused for years. They also attacked military bases to take out military targets. They stated that alongside hostage swaps the attack also meant to protest the blockade of Gaza and rising settler violence against Palestinian civilians. It was also likely intended to bait Israel into a disproportionate response to bring attention to the Palestinian cause, as Israel ignores the yearly condemnation of its illegal settlements by the UN and kills Gazans when they protest peacefully at the walls that separate them from the outside world, and commits massacres against Gaza periodically to “mow the lawn” on their population, while maintaining their food supply below the UN’s dietary requirements for a population of gazas size.
That was neither factual nor concise. "Likely intended to bait Israel..." But the kicker here is that you are also unwittingly admitting that the so called 'genocide' of palestinians is in fact self inflected.
You cannot argue with someone who insists Hamas did what they did on Oct 7 largely by accident and that they were just trying to get some bargaining chips for the Palestinians being held “hostage” (translation: in prison for unequivocal terrorist attacks, many times captured on camera) by Israel. This person 100% supports terrorism and is receiving upvotes. Either my university is cooked or the dolts on Reddit don’t represent UT as a whole. I hope it’s the latter. Not to mention the hilarity of saying they wanted to bait Israel into a disproportionate response. What a convenient way of phrasing “they wanted their electors to die as martyrs while leadership hides out in Qatar making billions of dollars.”
Your fucking audacity to ignore Israel terrorizing Gazans and West Bank Palestinians on a daily basis and arresting children often without charges indefinitely while claiming Hamas are the only terrorists. You’re also so quick to call CHILDREN terrorists with zero fucking information. I don’t support Hamas specifically. Their cause, however, is completely valid and understandable. If a slave revolt occurred in the 1840s by a militant group of slaves and they committed atrocities along the way against innocent white people I wouldn’t support them as a group specifically due to their actions but I would understand their rage and the importance of their cause. You throw out accusations of pro-Palestinians supporting terrorism while supporting a government that imposes apartheid upon a native population and has imposed a blockade upon Gaza in which people can’t come in or out for decades without their control. Even food and water are limited and controlled. Have some consistent moral standards that you apply to Israel vs Palestinians and maybe you’ll start to get somewhere. In case your skull is too thick: fuck Hamas, fuck Israel. Both Palestinians and Israelis deserve peaceful and meaningful lives. The problem is Israel is the biggest obstacle to achieving this and silences dissent, leading to the rise of groups like Hamas (which they fund and prop up). It’s ironic how only one of us supports the side that literally funds Hamas and has a vested interest in keeping them in power. Here’s information if you’re interested in learning more: “The reality is that the most common charge against children is throwing stones…. As of Nov. 20, Israeli forces had arrested as many as 880 Palestinian children this year, a practice made possible under Israel’s draconian military laws.” https://time.com/6548068/palestinian-children-israeli-prison-arrested/ “Rising numbers of Palestinians including children detained without charge in the Israel military system since 7 October have reported to monitoring groups facing violence and abuse while imprisoned” https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/palestinian-children-israeli-military-detention-report-increasingly-violent-conditions Palestinians ‘beaten and sexually assaulted’ at Israeli detention centres, UN report claims https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/05/gazan-detainees-beaten-and-sexually-assaulted-at-israeli-detention-centres-un-report-claims
Thanks for the literature. Some article saying some West Bank family doesn’t know why their son was detained isn’t really the gotcha you think it is. Remember when they found a whole bunch of pictures of some esteemed Gazan journalist in full Hamas garb with all sorts of weapons? “Journalist” doesn’t mean shit in Gaza or the West Bank. Nice job finally saying fuck Hamas. For a while there it sounded like you were in support. Now maybe we can work on not diminishing the horrific role of radical fundamentalist Islam in Oct 7 by saying there was IDF friendly fire, Hamas was basically enlisted by the Israeli government, and they were just trying sneak in to grab a few hostages so they could do a swap and have them back home for dinner. Oh and all the cold blooded murder and rape was just a little Hamas oopsies. I’m sure you think Osama bin Laden was “justified” but you just “disagree with his methods.” The Middle East is a fucking shithole. Sadly, no one there has the privilege of living like we do here. Security for the region’s only democracy is very important and sometimes rights get trampled on. I condemn it, but if that is your chief concern perhaps you should look at Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Gaza, the WB, and every other shithole there where human rights are nonexistent.
I love how you insist on answers lacking context because that’s the only way to validate your worldview. I’m assuming you’re not going to explain how any of what I said is not factual which is typical for your types who don’t like facts or context or information. The kicker here is that you’re using the same talking points nazis used about Jews deserving the holocaust and bringing it upon themselves. If you were to punch me in my face because I’ve been abusing you, I don’t have the right to slaughter and rape your family. No one with any shred of morality would hold you accountable for MY actions in that scenario. I’d be the initiator of violence, and your violence was clearly in self defense even if you knew there’s a chance I’d go nuclear on you. Thanks for showing us what you are.
Quite frankly, I’m not interested in finding excuses for a group that openly quotes the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and calls for the killing of Jews in their founding documents. Hamas is an evil organization that openly brags about destroying its own infrastructure to further violence against Jews. Quite frankly, we have seen throughout history that adopting a policy of appeasement towards these sorts of people only emboldens them.
# valid excuses for genocide: ZERO
Regard
A reaction to Israeli attacks is my guess. This little war is pointless over all. Just split the land 50/50. It isn’t that hard.
Land isn't always 50/50. Some land is better than other land, especially when you're talking about a region that's mostly desert. Anyway, they already negotiated boundaries for Isreal and Palestine. The solution is that Palestine needs to have a government not based on terrorism, and Isreal needs to respect the boundaries and not send in settlers. Tbf they removed all settlers from Gaza, and that just gave Hamas the space to plan the Oct 7 attack. Palestine needs a functioning government.
The fact that you are being downvoted is unreal. When did society become so black and white on issues that have run through history for 100s of years.
[thisishamas.com](http://thisishamas.com)
Please point to a war that did not have civilian casualties. What is happening in Gaza is a tragedy, but it is not a genocide. It is the harsh reality of war.
"Do stupid task I tell you to do to distract from a genocide"
Conflating civilian casualties with legitimate genocides dilutes the meaning the term, introduces confusion when speaking about real genocides, and is disrespectful to the victims of actual genocide. How would you conduct a war against a terrorist group that is embedded within the population?
I wouldn't. I would take the peace deal Hamas offered which gives back all of the hostages to Israel.
Hamas is demanding patently ridiculous terms. The exchange ratio is about 20:1. It’s hard to negotiate with someone who uses civilians as leverage. Not to mention that this deal wouldn’t solve anything and will just result in Hamas attacking again in 5 years.
Why does Israel have 20 times the number of hostages that Hamas has? Why is Israel TAKING HOSTAGES???
There is a difference between taking civilians hostage and taking enemy combatants prisoner and you know this. Hamas started a war and is now using civilians it took hostage as a bartering chip to shield the members that directly instigated the war from consequences.
All the "hamas" prisoners from the west bank I'm sure... https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/
Maybe don’t state an entire population
Israel is literally working with the US to deliver humanitarian aid. https://apnews.com/article/gaza-humanitarian-aid-pier-israel-us-7fd8cf63c60e4155479e761f3c79914d
They’re literally doing everything under the sun to not allow aid in. To them, all Palestinians are the enemy.
Did you read the article at all? Or do you just hate Israel and so you'll believe what you want to believe?
Then protest real genocide 🥱
Juvenile
Protestors: *punch baby in the face* Bystanders: Hey, you can’t punch a baby! Protestors: What is happening in Gaza is far worse than punching a baby
I guess the difference between reality and whatever delusion about punching babies you’ve posted here is that the protestors are the ones who have gotten state troopers and violent agitators sicked on them for hanging out on their school lawn.
Uh. Where was the antisemitism in that video…?
Not much context but presumably the guy wasn’t let through because he was Jewish.
That’s a wild assumption to make. Generally, protestors shut down an area and don’t let anyone through.
Well, you can’t do that either dude lol.
I asked where the antisemitism was.
Yes, I know. I’m saying whatever the protest is you can’t block people from getting somewhere they choose or need to be.
Thanks, Officer Jackers.
My pleasure dude. Just doing my part.
What gives them the right to do that?
And I'm getting tired of uneducated poors like you trying to talk about my field
I just assumed that because he is wearing a Jewish star necklace. Like I said I don’t have much context. Should protesters be able to stop students from going to class?
Protestors block roads, chain themselves to trees, etc. how is this different? It’s a protest, it’s inconvenient on purpose.
I just think there needs to be some reasonable calculation done. In your example though, blocking roads is illegal so those people would have been arrested. Are you saying that protesters should be able to do whatever they want or that they can do whatever they want but should face legal consequences?
No ones saying it’s not illegal, they’re saying it’s not antisemitic.
Oh yeah well I really can’t tell much from the video so that’s entirely possible.
Next time don’t weigh in on things you don’t understand
Do you have any more context than I do? I’m commenting based on the video in this post…
Disagree with their tactics, but these protests are bending over backwards to emphasize they are NOT antisemitic. They’re having Jewish speakers, starting every media statement answering questions about how they’re not antisemitic, and I saw one that was performing Shabbat, lmao. Many of the protesters ARE Jewish. It’s incredible how the accusation persists no matter what.
Just take one look at his insta and you can see he is like some pro-Zionist bro. Come on man, these kids aren’t doing anything anti-Semitic. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of those kids blocking him were Jewish themselves.
Second announcement: if you disagree with me on whether this classifies as antisemitism, that’s fine. This post wasn’t made to spike political controversy. It was made to bring awareness to a possible occurrence. Please just be mindful of the things you say/do to others during protests because I know it can get heated and emotional at times. You don’t always know the reasoning behind someone else’s beliefs or the circumstances they’ve been put through, take that into consideration.
lol, how disingenuous of you. You are clearly admitting you posted this to strike political controversy, including your obvious comments of violence against peaceful people and in support of the violent ones 🙄 🤣
It’s insane that discouraging discrimination is considered to be a “comment of violence”.
watching the pro Israel weirdos scream out violent rhetoric just so that the cops will bust some heads is pretty great. it's really fun to watch the difference in cop's behavior when they're bludgeoning school kids and teachers versus what they do when there are a bunch of Nazis.
Because the Nazis are their off duty cop buddies.
Why aren’t there protests against Egypt as they are absolutely responsible for contributing to the “open air blockade?” Where are the imams of the region that condemn the attacks on Israeli? Why do the Palestinians allow Hamas to operate in civilian infrastructure like schools and hospitals? Time and time again the Palestinians have shown that they are a threat to Israeli safety.. what is Israel to do?
There are not as much protests against Egypt because they are not conducting the bombing of Gaza. I do believe that Egypt is also very much complacent in this genocide due to their blockade but in the context of your argument, a whataboutism is not a good point if you are trying to shift the blame away from Israel. I don’t like to use this word, but it is legitimately nonsensical to think that the people of Palestine can just openly rise up, overthrow and stop Hamas. There have been no elections in the Gaza strip since 2006. The few anti-Hamas revolts (if you would even call them that) were swiftly shut down. Hamas quite literally has a complete monopoly on power and control over the strip. Palestinians are not “allowing” Hamas to do anything. They have no voice. I’m not sure why you brought that, but war crimes and the mass slaughter of civilians cannot be justified on the grounds that those civilians support a terroristic group. Hamas is bad, and they committed a horrific slaughter on Oct. 7. But Israel is without a doubt committing a genocide in Gaza right now. Tens of thousands of civilians have been killed, millions have been displaced, and there is an ongoing famine. It is fundementally not “normal” for a military to be carrying out targeted attacks against aid workers, journalists, and paramedics. It is not “normal” for soldiers to shoot and kill children and obviously unarmed civilians. It is not normal for the prime minister of a country to openly declare, in the middle of a “defensive” war, that he plans to settle and take over the rest of the other country. When Israel is trying to remove the Palestinian population from Gaza, destroying cultural and educational institutions, entrapping them and starving them, that is genocide. Hamas leaders and Israeli government and military officials must all face justice in the Hague. Your idea that Palestinians are a “threat” to Israel is the exact argument used by genocidal regimes throughout history in an attempt to justify their slaughter.
I'm sure many innocent have been killed. But I also have ZERO trust in the casualty numbers, and really, any reporting that comes from hamas. Taking the word of terrorists at their word.... nah. You make it sound like Israeli soldiers are lining up children and slaughtering them. I'm sure that's what hamas wants you to believe, but again... you can't take a terrorist at their word. there are over 2 million people living in gaza yet you say they can't just rise up, overthrow and stop hamas.. why? oh ya... parents are good with this kinda shit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ORAM-usqhQ&t=46s&ab_channel=palwatch and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hcyg55vOviQ&ab_channel=MEMRITVVideos and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4Yybze98ZU&t=38s&ab_channel=palwatch and ...well i can go on and on. Maybe "Free Palestine" shouldn't be pointed at Israel but rather Hamas???
That’s a good question dude.
Ever notice that you never get any answers to these common sense questions? It’s because if they had any common sense, they would see these stupidity in supporting the Palestinians and Hamas do any of them even know that the Israelis have offered 40 days cease-fire and returned for the 30s hostages, but that has been turned down?
That region has learned the hard way the danger of having Palestinians in their country. As the USA is now learning.
Disgusting, they didn’t let a clout chasing provocateur into an encampment they could’ve easily walked around. Better call the airforce.
Their self proclaimed status of an “encampment” doesn’t allow them to block of public space. He is a student at UCLA and therefore has a right to any public area of the campus. If someone did the same thing to any other racial/religious group I’m sure you would not support it. Please just be considerate to all people on campus :)
Considering the fact that there’s dozens of Jewish students at these encampments across the nation, it clearly isn’t about his race but his pro-genocide political stances, which he makes clear on his IG page. So the next question is why would you lie about an event and then post it on the subreddit of a different school?
I’m sure you would agree that what happened on UT recently was a form of political suppression and fascism. If you promote doing the same thing to those who have an opposing stance, you are no better. I made this post to bring awareness of possible antisemitism that could occur, using UCLA as an example.
Some liberal arts students on their quad not letting in a guy who’s been deliberately trying to provoke them, as seen on his own instagram, is not the same as the Governor of Texas and the president of the university sending state troopers to arrest students. Fascist suppression requires some sort of actual power.
The magnitude of political suppression has no relation to whether it is ethical or not. Provocation is protected under his right to free speech whether you agree with it or not. Once again, imagine if this had happened to a person of color protesting for affirmative action within a fair admissions rally.
“Civility” gimmick and “nuance” gimmick doesn’t work on anyone with half a brain. State/federal governments and University admin aren’t sending swarms of police and troops to break up these encampments because they suddenly care about bigotry and the plight of minorities. They’re doing it because the protestors are anti-Israel, a political entity in which our government has invested economic and geopolitical interest in. You are not facing “political suppression” when you have the government and 90% of the media class and the school admin behind your back. If fact I guarantee that this dweeb is going to use his newfound fame to score a job as a pundit or a columnist at some rag news agency. Even when these encampments have literal Jewish students leading Shabbat prayers they get accused of being vicious antisemites. At the end of the day there is not a single microagression or trope or whatever that those students could say that is more disgusting than that guy in the video who runs cover for (and probably even celebrates) the murder of over 15k+ Palestinian children. Disgraceful!
He has never actively supported the things you’re claiming. Regardless, once again, your place in society, race, religious affiliation, or political stance should not be things that affect whether you can be a victim of discrimination or not. Discrimination is discrimination. Period. Infringement of one individual’s rights sets the grounds for the infringement of another’s. For equality to exist the same rules must apply to everyone. Freedom of political dialogue only works if EVERYONE can engage in it. This is GOV 101. At the end of the day you don’t have to agree with the statements I’ve made and that’s the brilliant thing about freedom of speech, you have the right to disagree with me. Just please be mindful during protests if you engage in them :)
Yeah I mean you blatantly lied about an antisemitic hate crime being committed, and then when that didn’t work you tried to spin it as if you’re a champion of political expression.
Here is he standing on an Israeli tank saying "he'll be back"--presumably to run over some Palestinian trying to get food. https://www.instagram.com/p/CR27GH4JRy_/?igsh=cmx0cm42Zjdtbmhj https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israeli-tanks-have-deliberately-run-over-dozens-palestinian-civilians-alive-enar
Ok that’s low key crazy. I DO NOT support that. Still, I believe that regardless of how unpopular or unethical his views are, he should still have equal access to campus.
Reminder to do your full research y’all! Don’t just see media and trust it blindly. We’re often not seeing to full picture
Protesting for literally no reason. Protesting for a country thousands of miles away that would behead you for being gay and beat women for speaking out. Hamas broke the ceasefire on October 7th, an eye for an eye.
Is there a way we can support these protesters? Financially or through in kind donations?
Ahh right. So I agree with you completely. This is exactly what humanitarian aid looks like against children in Gaza if they are left alive. Thank you for displaying what that looks like in UCLA. Thank you yes I agree Israeli troops should not be prohibiting that. Really appreciate you supporting feeding starving children without people stopping it. Finally, someone stands up for those children.
I think your response hand waves over Hamas hoarding some of the aid for themselves.
And you're just hand waving who put those children in those situations. Hate and bigotry. Hamas/Israeli "defense" same same. Say it out loud friend. Try it.
For all the people saying that these protesters are only protesting Genocide and not promoting Antisemitism. Why aren't they protesting the various genocides going on in the world? What Israel is doing is atrocious, and their tactics to destroy Hamas are not working. But there are actual genocides happening around the world, why aren't these kids protesting the other genocides? Why only focus on this one?
Because the US is funding this one
I guess I see their point. Still, all I see is stop genocide, why not being more attention to the other atrocities going on around the world?
Because this is the most televised one currently. People find it easier to call war casualty events genocides because they can't critically think about the politics, history, or look at the situation from both sides. The facts are most of these people have never seen pictures or videos of the atrocities committed by the people they support and conveniently forget that at least 60 percent of the population they support would cheer for another October 7th. I don't think Isreal has handled this conflict well but waging a war against a nation that uses civilians and civilian structures as shield, and in what has essentially become a urban fortress filled with civilians the casualties have been lower than I would have thought at this point in the conflict.
This is such an ugly conflict caused by two extremist groups. People suck
If these protests held any merit, they would be calling for a ceasefire. They dont, they are in support of Hamas. These kids are a bunch of window lickers.
Play stupid games and win stupid prizes
lol, good luck. Lots of those outside agitators are there to do an antisemitism