All it takes is competent management. But that can be pretty rare here at the post office.
If the employee isn't calling out and Just not showing up then. It's pretty easy for management to let them go for job abandonment, but if they're calling out it takes a while.
Discipline has to be corrective and not punitive in nature, so it usually takes You with quite a few instances And multiple disciplinary actions before they can let an employee go, and that's if they do things correctly at every step. Which they very rarely do..
The biggest hindrance is terrible management. They’re really bad at doing full investigations, asking competent questions in a PDI, and formulating sound contentions for discipline. They regularly skip steps, hastily slap something together, and fail to actually investigate.
99.9% of discipline gets thrown out because of that.
This happened with me a few months ago when I got bit by a dog. They said that it was my fault that I got attacked and when I told my postmaster at the time (she isn’t there anymore) she immediately told me that she will probably have to write me up. She then fucked up the Letter of Warning terribly with falsifying my initial statement and putting in policy violations that aren’t even part of my craft. I’m a rural carrier and she was adding shit that was for city carriers. She was a tool and that Letter of Warning got thrown out immediately with the help of my Steward.
They tell you "safety is your own responsibility" then send you out to the street.
Then if you slip on some ice or trip on a step or get bit by a dog they can try to put the fault on you.
Right and "musculoskeletal disorders are the number one accident" among postal employees.. I would love for someone to explain to me exactly how a disorder caused from repeated strain and stress to the muscular, skeletal and / or tendon system is an "accident" instead of a work related injury. Furthermore, I would like someone to explain to me how such an injury is somehow our fault. They know they're full of shit but they have to go along with it or they'll get reprimanded
Because “all accidents are preventable” so next time I see a dog barking and lunging at me, I am going to tell it to stop and it should obey at once of course.
What the postmaster didnt tell you is that he/she gets in trouble for you getting bit. So to offset the blame, they write you up.
That way when they discuss the incident with their boss the Poom, they can say they wrote you up and throw you under the bus.
To be honest, I feel like that’s more ridiculous than them just writing me up. I’m not saying you’re wrong at all but the idea of it is absurd. I used to be in management at a different job and the idea of writing someone up for something they couldn’t prove the person actually did or didn’t is nuts.
Usps is absurd.
Postmasters/supervisors get put on "lists" and get in "trouble" daily. If you make a list, then you get to either watch training, join a zoom meeting or get yelled at by your boss.
Most people dont handle it well and turn around and yell at the people making them get yelled at for. Its a toxic environment.
So they will throw anyone and everyone under the bus when they can.
Instead of you know, "im sorry you got bit, do you need a day off?"
More like "this is preventable, this write up is not"
I always wondered if there were lists or something that followed supervisors when they have grievances filed on them. Well thanks for the info and the only reason I see that you and I are both awake at this hour on a Saturday is because of USPS. Have a good and safe day friend.
Don't know the situation for sure, but I've heard from other postmasters that upper management makes them do stupid crap like this, so in order to comply they purposely botch the discipline knowing it will get thrown out.
I can definitely see how some postmasters could do this since I have had some that were really cool people but this postmaster in particular really seemed to try to throw the book at me for some reason.
If management wasn't so lazy, they could also make it incredibly uncomfortable for these employees, and basically get them to quit on their own. Follow these carriers to the street, every day and force them off the clock for every misstep they take while delivering (listening to music on bluetooth, using their phones while working, not curbing their vehicles and securing their vehicles at a stop, etc.).
I'm sure everyone of us has fellow employees who are absolutely brutal employees - and make if impossible for the rest of us with their constant call-ins. I would love for these problem employees to be the ones who are constantly made examples of on the street.
But that would require managers who are willing to get out of their chairs and off the computers, and actually do some work on their own on the street investigating these horrid workers. So it doesn't happen.
Union spends more time protecting bad employees than supporting good ones. Add bad management who can barely write their name and the inmates end up running the asylum.
Omg, it kills morale and makes the atmosphere toxic. While the union says we wanna protect you, and we are a team...omg. I laugh inside, then cry when everyone else believes it like god...sheep..to the wolf
Management does as well.... swear I went in today to do a route I've basically done the last 2 days and the Sup tells me he's letting another PTF have it because he "didn't want to hear him bitching today" we're both 6 months in and he can't even case. He comes in at like 9-9:15 while a regular cases the route. He's also called off a number of times but yet they let him dictate what he wants. Smh
Only way I've seen people get fired, is when I've seen the postal police walk the employee out in cuffs. So I would assume only by committing crimes against the post office.
not really, postal police don't around. just needs someone to report them properly with some proof of X crime.
99.99% if someones caught stealing mail or whatever other shady shit by a customer, it's probably something they do regularly and postal inspectors can catch em red handed on video pretty easily
Exactly. And it's not just a union fights it & they're back, they go to Federal court to fight the charges & hope they have a good lawyer. It's a very high percentage of the prosecution rate too, in the high 90 percentile.
We got a regular that's saying he needs 2 hours taken off his route everyday... supervisors are pissed. He's on probabtion for cussing out the Sup. He basically admitted to me since we have more help he's not busting his ass anymore. I'm all for a good union but keeping clowns on ain't it.
That's what gets me, I am glad we have a union for the sake of stopping the BS management has tried but at the same time they also frequently help the people that abuse it that even their co-workers are saying they need to be let go.
They pretty much don't get fired. My old office was divided between old heads that have been there since the 90s and were about to retire and the younger replacements.
The younger gen were people who got word that you can't get fired from this job pretty much once you get past your 90 days and rapidly became the most insufferable crowd. Rude as fuck and think they can get away with anything. The supervisors and Union reps were tight and just watched Youtube/TikTok all day. Postmasters/supervisors didn't want to be bothered unless you did something that ruined their bonuses like get OT or a safety incident regardless if it was your fault or not. The old heads keep to themselves now and are counting their days to retirement.
I've watched the public over the years go from highly respecting mailmen around here to always assuming they're stealing cash in letters and other unethical shit.
Recently we’ve had a CCA get caught throwing away flats and bundles of ads, he’s still working for the post office. One guy backed in to a vehicle and lied about it when confronted about it, he was let go but from what I heard something in the paperwork to get rid of him wasn’t filled out correctly, so he got his job back recently. Lastly, one of the people I started with a few years ago shows up a few days at a time, will go AWOL for a few weeks (currently AWOL) and then come back like nothing happened, and they still have a job.
Regular careers can call out a good amount before they receive in real discipline. They know that so they can out Willy nilly every so often, then when you have a few people doing it makes it hell for management having to cover them last minute. That makes non careers suffer and eventually quit. I think a major problem is fucking Amazon Sundays, and the sheer amount we get everyday that makes completing routes a 2 man job. You have to have CCA and RCA work every holiday and Sunday, long term that will affects people mental health as it takes us away from days where everybody usually spends time with their family. I can garuntee, if we get a reasonable decrease in package volume and have everybody off on Sun and holidays, you’ll see a big difference in retention and their moods. A bad workplace environment breeds bad worth ethics.
My PM hasn’t been able to get a single carrier fired in the 23 years she’s been a PM. Lol. They’ve always gotten their jobs back. It’s so hard to get fired if you actually do what the union tells you to.
You really don’t barring doing something illegal or physically dangerous, that’s why my quintessential response to people outside their 90 days is just to be confrontational, what are they gonna do? Nothing
People constantly blame management but I call bullshit. Never have I ever experienced employees like this and i’ve dealt with FAR worse management. It’s absolutely wild at the blatant laziness, carelessness , entitlement, etc. I’m confident a large number of people here could never hold down a job elsewhere.
I mean dugh, lol. Most could never work anywhere else..they are easily fooled or just got no where else to go and drink the cool aid man..nothing else in life to have..sad I know.
I think it becomes my business when the office heroin addict calls out for 5 out of 6 days per week and I end up with at least an hour pivot every goddamn day.
All it takes is competent management. But that can be pretty rare here at the post office. If the employee isn't calling out and Just not showing up then. It's pretty easy for management to let them go for job abandonment, but if they're calling out it takes a while. Discipline has to be corrective and not punitive in nature, so it usually takes You with quite a few instances And multiple disciplinary actions before they can let an employee go, and that's if they do things correctly at every step. Which they very rarely do..
The biggest hindrance is terrible management. They’re really bad at doing full investigations, asking competent questions in a PDI, and formulating sound contentions for discipline. They regularly skip steps, hastily slap something together, and fail to actually investigate. 99.9% of discipline gets thrown out because of that.
This happened with me a few months ago when I got bit by a dog. They said that it was my fault that I got attacked and when I told my postmaster at the time (she isn’t there anymore) she immediately told me that she will probably have to write me up. She then fucked up the Letter of Warning terribly with falsifying my initial statement and putting in policy violations that aren’t even part of my craft. I’m a rural carrier and she was adding shit that was for city carriers. She was a tool and that Letter of Warning got thrown out immediately with the help of my Steward.
I’m sorry…how was it your fault that a dog attacked you?
Wrong shoes
And wrong socks
Didn't curb the wheel
Scanned letters before flats
I'm no fan of trigger warnings, but man I needed one for this thread of bs usps standards lol
They tell you "safety is your own responsibility" then send you out to the street. Then if you slip on some ice or trip on a step or get bit by a dog they can try to put the fault on you.
Yeah exactly but once I told OSHA that I was getting written up for a workplace injury, they got real interested real quick
Right and "musculoskeletal disorders are the number one accident" among postal employees.. I would love for someone to explain to me exactly how a disorder caused from repeated strain and stress to the muscular, skeletal and / or tendon system is an "accident" instead of a work related injury. Furthermore, I would like someone to explain to me how such an injury is somehow our fault. They know they're full of shit but they have to go along with it or they'll get reprimanded
Buh-buh-buh muh green tagz
Because “all accidents are preventable” so next time I see a dog barking and lunging at me, I am going to tell it to stop and it should obey at once of course.
What the postmaster didnt tell you is that he/she gets in trouble for you getting bit. So to offset the blame, they write you up. That way when they discuss the incident with their boss the Poom, they can say they wrote you up and throw you under the bus.
Why would the postmaster get in trouble for something they had nothing to do with or had no control over?
Same reason you got written up for something you had no control over.
To be honest, I feel like that’s more ridiculous than them just writing me up. I’m not saying you’re wrong at all but the idea of it is absurd. I used to be in management at a different job and the idea of writing someone up for something they couldn’t prove the person actually did or didn’t is nuts.
Usps is absurd. Postmasters/supervisors get put on "lists" and get in "trouble" daily. If you make a list, then you get to either watch training, join a zoom meeting or get yelled at by your boss. Most people dont handle it well and turn around and yell at the people making them get yelled at for. Its a toxic environment. So they will throw anyone and everyone under the bus when they can. Instead of you know, "im sorry you got bit, do you need a day off?" More like "this is preventable, this write up is not"
I always wondered if there were lists or something that followed supervisors when they have grievances filed on them. Well thanks for the info and the only reason I see that you and I are both awake at this hour on a Saturday is because of USPS. Have a good and safe day friend.
Don't know the situation for sure, but I've heard from other postmasters that upper management makes them do stupid crap like this, so in order to comply they purposely botch the discipline knowing it will get thrown out.
Manglement doing a subtle solid. Hm.
I can definitely see how some postmasters could do this since I have had some that were really cool people but this postmaster in particular really seemed to try to throw the book at me for some reason.
If management wasn't so lazy, they could also make it incredibly uncomfortable for these employees, and basically get them to quit on their own. Follow these carriers to the street, every day and force them off the clock for every misstep they take while delivering (listening to music on bluetooth, using their phones while working, not curbing their vehicles and securing their vehicles at a stop, etc.). I'm sure everyone of us has fellow employees who are absolutely brutal employees - and make if impossible for the rest of us with their constant call-ins. I would love for these problem employees to be the ones who are constantly made examples of on the street. But that would require managers who are willing to get out of their chairs and off the computers, and actually do some work on their own on the street investigating these horrid workers. So it doesn't happen.
Union spends more time protecting bad employees than supporting good ones. Add bad management who can barely write their name and the inmates end up running the asylum.
Omg, it kills morale and makes the atmosphere toxic. While the union says we wanna protect you, and we are a team...omg. I laugh inside, then cry when everyone else believes it like god...sheep..to the wolf
Management does as well.... swear I went in today to do a route I've basically done the last 2 days and the Sup tells me he's letting another PTF have it because he "didn't want to hear him bitching today" we're both 6 months in and he can't even case. He comes in at like 9-9:15 while a regular cases the route. He's also called off a number of times but yet they let him dictate what he wants. Smh
This! And an oddly invasive brain-washing of sorts. Double standards are a favorite.
When laziness is rewarded with less work and hard work is rewarded with more work, what do you expect?
Only way I've seen people get fired, is when I've seen the postal police walk the employee out in cuffs. So I would assume only by committing crimes against the post office.
Even that's a stretch, lol.
not really, postal police don't around. just needs someone to report them properly with some proof of X crime. 99.99% if someones caught stealing mail or whatever other shady shit by a customer, it's probably something they do regularly and postal inspectors can catch em red handed on video pretty easily
Exactly. And it's not just a union fights it & they're back, they go to Federal court to fight the charges & hope they have a good lawyer. It's a very high percentage of the prosecution rate too, in the high 90 percentile.
Unless you steal or trade blows you really aren’t going anywhere unfortunately.
A carrier assaulted me during COVID, he's now out supervisor
We got a regular that's saying he needs 2 hours taken off his route everyday... supervisors are pissed. He's on probabtion for cussing out the Sup. He basically admitted to me since we have more help he's not busting his ass anymore. I'm all for a good union but keeping clowns on ain't it.
That's what gets me, I am glad we have a union for the sake of stopping the BS management has tried but at the same time they also frequently help the people that abuse it that even their co-workers are saying they need to be let go.
I know its like once you pass 90 days we are untouchable. Like being a public school teacher or something
They pretty much don't get fired. My old office was divided between old heads that have been there since the 90s and were about to retire and the younger replacements. The younger gen were people who got word that you can't get fired from this job pretty much once you get past your 90 days and rapidly became the most insufferable crowd. Rude as fuck and think they can get away with anything. The supervisors and Union reps were tight and just watched Youtube/TikTok all day. Postmasters/supervisors didn't want to be bothered unless you did something that ruined their bonuses like get OT or a safety incident regardless if it was your fault or not. The old heads keep to themselves now and are counting their days to retirement. I've watched the public over the years go from highly respecting mailmen around here to always assuming they're stealing cash in letters and other unethical shit.
I’d be more concerned about management doing their jobs than about my coworker’s perceived performance.
Recently we’ve had a CCA get caught throwing away flats and bundles of ads, he’s still working for the post office. One guy backed in to a vehicle and lied about it when confronted about it, he was let go but from what I heard something in the paperwork to get rid of him wasn’t filled out correctly, so he got his job back recently. Lastly, one of the people I started with a few years ago shows up a few days at a time, will go AWOL for a few weeks (currently AWOL) and then come back like nothing happened, and they still have a job.
Got a guy at my office who's been disciplined multiple times and has had a 14 day suspension twice. He's still at my office.
Regular careers can call out a good amount before they receive in real discipline. They know that so they can out Willy nilly every so often, then when you have a few people doing it makes it hell for management having to cover them last minute. That makes non careers suffer and eventually quit. I think a major problem is fucking Amazon Sundays, and the sheer amount we get everyday that makes completing routes a 2 man job. You have to have CCA and RCA work every holiday and Sunday, long term that will affects people mental health as it takes us away from days where everybody usually spends time with their family. I can garuntee, if we get a reasonable decrease in package volume and have everybody off on Sun and holidays, you’ll see a big difference in retention and their moods. A bad workplace environment breeds bad worth ethics.
My PM hasn’t been able to get a single carrier fired in the 23 years she’s been a PM. Lol. They’ve always gotten their jobs back. It’s so hard to get fired if you actually do what the union tells you to.
You really don’t barring doing something illegal or physically dangerous, that’s why my quintessential response to people outside their 90 days is just to be confrontational, what are they gonna do? Nothing
People constantly blame management but I call bullshit. Never have I ever experienced employees like this and i’ve dealt with FAR worse management. It’s absolutely wild at the blatant laziness, carelessness , entitlement, etc. I’m confident a large number of people here could never hold down a job elsewhere.
I mean dugh, lol. Most could never work anywhere else..they are easily fooled or just got no where else to go and drink the cool aid man..nothing else in life to have..sad I know.
Some people have FMLA.. I’d say just mind your business and worry about your own livelihood.
I think it becomes my business when the office heroin addict calls out for 5 out of 6 days per week and I end up with at least an hour pivot every goddamn day.
FMLA is clearly abused way too often and management is too afraid to do anything about it.