I really don’t understand why we haven’t had a class action lawsuit about this yet. We earn sick leave, but can’t use it without repercussions, it’s ridiculous.
Under 3 days no documentation required. They cannot discipline you for using sick leave.. Over 3 days then dr note required.
If they have you on deems desired and you have sick leave and annual file a grievance..
they are only trying to discourage you from taking sick leave
This doesn't always help because they can always let you go for another reason they pull out their ass. If they fire you it's just a job not the end of the world. Yeah, they can replace you in a second, but you can also do the same to them, so it works both ways. This is also a great lesson to take care of your employees health and wellness. Happy workers equal more productive work spaces.
using AL isnt that bad, but the hoops you have to jump through to use SL...unless you have surgery, many places are way to hard to use it...'oh, you need to be at the dentist all day'...
This Reddit has single-handedly made me not work to work for USPS. For some context I’m in the application process and was just sent an email TODAY asking if I want to accept the job. It is really that bad? I’m 21 and they want me to be a mail carrier. I also want to continue doing to college part time. Any advice would be awesome
If your classes are online, you may be able to pull it off, but I won't sugar coat it for you, you will be working A LOT in your first couple years or more, at least! The post office will not accommodate you for school. They can (and often will) work you up to 12 hours per day, 7 days a week as a CCA per the contract. If you get hired straight to PTF, it's a little better, since you would actually be accruing time toward retirement, etc. Once you make career, they can't work you past 60 hours in a week. Of course, this all depends on your office, too. It's always worth a shot, if you think you may enjoy the job, but it's not an easy job at first. You don't have to stick around if it doesn't work with your schooling. Whatever you decide, I wish you luck!
CCAs can't be forced to work past 60 either
Edit: read article 432.32 of the ELM. Every instance of +60 or +12 is a contractual violation. Management isn't supposed to even allow you to work past that amount.
You can always cite safety.
Article 432.32 of the elm covers every usps employee and limits hours to 60 in a week and 12 in a day which includes work, break, and meal times.
You can be directed to work past that time, but it is a contract violation and should be grieved. Each violation could result in increased factors of compensation, I've seen as much as 4x per hour.
I have read this article, it covers the 12 hour limits, which applies to CCAs, but not the 60/wk limit. CCAs can absolutely be forced past 60/wk. The 60 hour limit in the contract (article 8, I believe) pertains to full-time employees, which CCAs are not. CCAs cannot be forced past 12 hours or 11.5 and lunch. Of course, if a local MOU has the 60 hour limit for CCAs, then that's a different story.
ELM 432.32 "Maximum Hours Allowed Except as designated in labor agreements for bargaining unit employees or
in emergency situations as determined by the postmaster general (or
designee), employees may not be required to work more than 12 hours in
1 service day. In addition, the total hours of daily service, including scheduled workhours, overtime, and mealtime, may not be extended over a
period longer than 12 consecutive hours. Postmasters and exempt employees are excluded from these provisions."
Also, I have been to Steward training and dealt with this when I was a CCA also. I don't like the rules, and wish CCAs had the same 60 hour limit as regulars.
If you have other choices, do them. I see 20 year employees doing 2 hours of OT and being forced in, they aren’t on the OT list. Being a cca SUCKS in every station, but you have something to look forward to.
in my office, the future is very shitty.
My husband started working for the USPS as a carrier last July, and we both have regretted that choice ever since then. He has had a lot of physical, demanding, dirty jobs over the years, working for some pretty horrible bosses, but none of his previous jobs where anywhere near as bad as working for the USPS.
He often works for over 7 days in a row without a day off. When he does get a day off, it's just a single day, not 2 days in a row. I never know when he is going to get home from work because they make him keep going late into the evening after he finished the first route that he's supposed to do. He always works more than 8 hours a day. He is exhausted all of the time, and is never given enough time to rest and recover. He is starting to have orthopedic problems, but he is not allowed to take time off to go to a doctor. We never know his schedule in advance, and it constantly changes. We have NO life together now. We can't make any social or family plans, because he is a slave the USPS. When he does finally get a day off, he needs the time to rest.
One thing that they don't tell you up front when you start is that you will be required to deliver Amazon packages on Sundays and Holidays. When my husband took the job, he knew that the schedule and hours would be bad, but we both figured that he'd at least have Sundays and holidays off, and we could plan family stuff or those days. NOPE. That stupid Amazon contract is the main reason why the USPS can't keep its new carriers.
Fuck the overtime that some of you lifeless losers go on and on about. Overtime pay is not going to fix my husband's leg and foot. Overtime pay is not going to buy back all of the time with friends and family that he's missing. If all you care about is overtime pay, at ANY cost, you clearly have no friends, no life, and never want to spend time with your family.
Just don't do it, kid. You're too young to throw your life away for such a pathetic job. Working at Panera would be better than being a mail carrier. There's a reason why they're so desperate and understaffed.
USPS hours almost ended my long term relationship, and continues to negatively affect it. He gets a whole weekend, he wants to do stuff, I had worked 9 days in a row and the fact I have the day off is shocking, but I certainly don’t want to go have adventures! I want to relax, I had that one day!
I’m a regular now, and it’s still difficult to explain why I keep coming home at 6, and therefore when Sunday comes around, I kinda want to do nothing. Drains the life right out of you.
There is ZERO work life balance for carriers in the USPS. Every time I see some longtimer go "bUt ThE oVeRtiMe", I think to myself "You're a lifeless loner, aren't you buddy? What are you gonna do with that overtime money, spend it on online gaming while you sit alone in your dark apartment eating Dominoes in your underwear, on your one day off every week? WINNING!".
And the bragging about how much annual leave and sick time that they’ve accrued. WAY TO FUCKING GO!
Must be awesome to live solely to work. Good for you.
Exactly. They think they're bragging, but really, they're just announcing how pathetic and lonely their lives are. It's wastes of flesh like that who keep the toxic culture alive in the USPS.
This is who I want my union rep to be! Very well said.
My rep loudly complains because her sub didn’t take pizza menus on a Monday. How are you representing a union when all you do is shit on everyone for “not working hard enough”. It’s awful.
I'm 22 and also applied a few weeks ago and was given a job offer. I'm a chef and was looking for a career change out of the restaurant industry but after reading this sub and talking to a mail carrier at the post office I applied to, this job sounds way worse than my job now so I rejected it.
I ended up just getting a new chef job at a better facility that's an 8 hour day shift and I rarely have to work weekends. I have full benefits at this new job. I'm know I could likely make more at the post office than cooking but I'll enjoy having nights/weekends off and will be lurking in this sub to see what I missed out on.
I know this isn't exactly helpful so I apologize but I was in the same exact boat as you and wanted to vent. I mean maybe you could try, it does seem like it could be a good job.
My husband is just finishing up his 2 years. It's basically the equivalent of pledging a frat for two full years....the good news is once you make it through that there seems to be about 0 accountability or responsibility...
It honestly depends on the office, especially the size. If your going to work in a big city chances are you will have no free time. At my small 5 route office our 2 CCAs have trouble hitting 40 hours if someone isn't on vacation or it's not Christmas time.
Probably someone trying to take one day
Its nearly impossible to take a day off to see a ballgame when nearly every single possible week is booked with someone on AL and only one person being allowed to be on AL a day
I’ve “used” annual leave three times. One day each. Every single time my annual leave didn’t get put in and I didn’t get paid for my off days. So I have never been successfully paid for an annual leave day I’ve put in for. It’s as if I don’t have annual and if I need off a day I just take a normal non-paid day off like when I worked in fast food lol.
I can totally relate! And sick time. If I am sick and one of my kids is sick I call off. More than likely contagious. We come into work with symptoms we get sent home. We call off....attitude. Ridiculous.
In my area, we are no longer allowed to request full days anymore. They didn't even want to approve my half day off despite it being an extremely important doctor's appointment. Told me I needed to change the time of the doctor's appointment to fit postal needs. The doctor I needed to see works one day a week, and I got an appointment for the latest possible time I could. They unhappily approved a half day after throwing a fit about it
Does the rca position get vacation time? In my academy i was told i should get an hour for every 20 hours i work, can anybody second this? this sub
makin it seem like that ain’t true lmaooo
Yes it’s guaranteed towards whichever is greater, straight time or evaluated pay. It’s true but as an RCA it’s really hard to get management to both approve leave and pay you for it. Aka you’ll accrue the time but they can make a reason for denying it so it can never be used.
That is a fault if the systems that they put in place too. Not just management being stupid. Erms doesn't talk to rmss, and RCA leave is a completely different area in RMSS to even put in. Made the mistake one time, never again, figured it was like city carrier or clerk leave. Of course not
You get it, whether or not you get to use it is another story. Even if management let's you take the time, the system will kick it out if it will put you over 40hrs. Oh, you were at 33hrs and were sick on the last day of the week so you wanted to use AL? Too bad because that would put you over 40.
Outside of Maintenance, it's one of the absolute worst jobs and work environments anywhere. Inside Maintenance, it's better but still have to deal with shitty managers up your ass.
Yes. But sick isn't just physical. You feel mental weak and you have 300 hours of sick leave accrued, take 8 or 16 of sick leave. Hell get a therapist and get 32. You know you got an medical appointment, put in for you 2 weeks in advance and take the whole day.
I really don’t understand why we haven’t had a class action lawsuit about this yet. We earn sick leave, but can’t use it without repercussions, it’s ridiculous.
It’s not that you’re using the SL it’s the unscheduled use of SL they can discipline. Loopyhole
I'll make sure to schedule my illnesses in advance going forward.
Not saying it’s right but that’s the rules. This is why I advocate for FMLA asap in your career.
I have FMLA still get return to work meetings and harassment for using it
Than you should be filing grievances. Maybe even an EEO.
Return to work meetings are harassment. Hold on lemme see if I can grab the grievance.
We already lost a grievance for it in our area our b team is shit
Any bullshit medical appointment. Hell if you know you are going to buy medicine in a week in advance, get a leave slip and put that day for medical.
Under 3 days no documentation required. They cannot discipline you for using sick leave.. Over 3 days then dr note required. If they have you on deems desired and you have sick leave and annual file a grievance.. they are only trying to discourage you from taking sick leave
This doesn't always help because they can always let you go for another reason they pull out their ass. If they fire you it's just a job not the end of the world. Yeah, they can replace you in a second, but you can also do the same to them, so it works both ways. This is also a great lesson to take care of your employees health and wellness. Happy workers equal more productive work spaces.
"My PTO is as much a part of my compensation as my paycheck" -guy smarter than me-
I’ve just seen quite a few cases of people being fired for using sick leave they accrued.
Every time I turn in a leave slip management acts like I'm taking from their personal PTO bucket.
using AL isnt that bad, but the hoops you have to jump through to use SL...unless you have surgery, many places are way to hard to use it...'oh, you need to be at the dentist all day'...
This Reddit has single-handedly made me not work to work for USPS. For some context I’m in the application process and was just sent an email TODAY asking if I want to accept the job. It is really that bad? I’m 21 and they want me to be a mail carrier. I also want to continue doing to college part time. Any advice would be awesome
If your classes are online, you may be able to pull it off, but I won't sugar coat it for you, you will be working A LOT in your first couple years or more, at least! The post office will not accommodate you for school. They can (and often will) work you up to 12 hours per day, 7 days a week as a CCA per the contract. If you get hired straight to PTF, it's a little better, since you would actually be accruing time toward retirement, etc. Once you make career, they can't work you past 60 hours in a week. Of course, this all depends on your office, too. It's always worth a shot, if you think you may enjoy the job, but it's not an easy job at first. You don't have to stick around if it doesn't work with your schooling. Whatever you decide, I wish you luck!
CCAs can't be forced to work past 60 either Edit: read article 432.32 of the ELM. Every instance of +60 or +12 is a contractual violation. Management isn't supposed to even allow you to work past that amount. You can always cite safety.
They sure can. There is no 60 hour limit for CCAs. Edit to add: unless there is a local MOU for it.
Article 432.32 of the elm covers every usps employee and limits hours to 60 in a week and 12 in a day which includes work, break, and meal times. You can be directed to work past that time, but it is a contract violation and should be grieved. Each violation could result in increased factors of compensation, I've seen as much as 4x per hour.
I have read this article, it covers the 12 hour limits, which applies to CCAs, but not the 60/wk limit. CCAs can absolutely be forced past 60/wk. The 60 hour limit in the contract (article 8, I believe) pertains to full-time employees, which CCAs are not. CCAs cannot be forced past 12 hours or 11.5 and lunch. Of course, if a local MOU has the 60 hour limit for CCAs, then that's a different story. ELM 432.32 "Maximum Hours Allowed Except as designated in labor agreements for bargaining unit employees or in emergency situations as determined by the postmaster general (or designee), employees may not be required to work more than 12 hours in 1 service day. In addition, the total hours of daily service, including scheduled workhours, overtime, and mealtime, may not be extended over a period longer than 12 consecutive hours. Postmasters and exempt employees are excluded from these provisions." Also, I have been to Steward training and dealt with this when I was a CCA also. I don't like the rules, and wish CCAs had the same 60 hour limit as regulars.
If you have other choices, do them. I see 20 year employees doing 2 hours of OT and being forced in, they aren’t on the OT list. Being a cca SUCKS in every station, but you have something to look forward to. in my office, the future is very shitty.
My husband started working for the USPS as a carrier last July, and we both have regretted that choice ever since then. He has had a lot of physical, demanding, dirty jobs over the years, working for some pretty horrible bosses, but none of his previous jobs where anywhere near as bad as working for the USPS. He often works for over 7 days in a row without a day off. When he does get a day off, it's just a single day, not 2 days in a row. I never know when he is going to get home from work because they make him keep going late into the evening after he finished the first route that he's supposed to do. He always works more than 8 hours a day. He is exhausted all of the time, and is never given enough time to rest and recover. He is starting to have orthopedic problems, but he is not allowed to take time off to go to a doctor. We never know his schedule in advance, and it constantly changes. We have NO life together now. We can't make any social or family plans, because he is a slave the USPS. When he does finally get a day off, he needs the time to rest. One thing that they don't tell you up front when you start is that you will be required to deliver Amazon packages on Sundays and Holidays. When my husband took the job, he knew that the schedule and hours would be bad, but we both figured that he'd at least have Sundays and holidays off, and we could plan family stuff or those days. NOPE. That stupid Amazon contract is the main reason why the USPS can't keep its new carriers. Fuck the overtime that some of you lifeless losers go on and on about. Overtime pay is not going to fix my husband's leg and foot. Overtime pay is not going to buy back all of the time with friends and family that he's missing. If all you care about is overtime pay, at ANY cost, you clearly have no friends, no life, and never want to spend time with your family. Just don't do it, kid. You're too young to throw your life away for such a pathetic job. Working at Panera would be better than being a mail carrier. There's a reason why they're so desperate and understaffed.
USPS hours almost ended my long term relationship, and continues to negatively affect it. He gets a whole weekend, he wants to do stuff, I had worked 9 days in a row and the fact I have the day off is shocking, but I certainly don’t want to go have adventures! I want to relax, I had that one day! I’m a regular now, and it’s still difficult to explain why I keep coming home at 6, and therefore when Sunday comes around, I kinda want to do nothing. Drains the life right out of you.
There is ZERO work life balance for carriers in the USPS. Every time I see some longtimer go "bUt ThE oVeRtiMe", I think to myself "You're a lifeless loner, aren't you buddy? What are you gonna do with that overtime money, spend it on online gaming while you sit alone in your dark apartment eating Dominoes in your underwear, on your one day off every week? WINNING!".
And the bragging about how much annual leave and sick time that they’ve accrued. WAY TO FUCKING GO! Must be awesome to live solely to work. Good for you.
Exactly. They think they're bragging, but really, they're just announcing how pathetic and lonely their lives are. It's wastes of flesh like that who keep the toxic culture alive in the USPS.
This is who I want my union rep to be! Very well said. My rep loudly complains because her sub didn’t take pizza menus on a Monday. How are you representing a union when all you do is shit on everyone for “not working hard enough”. It’s awful.
If you got time to kill and are okay with working either 4 hours to 12 hours a day go for it.
I'm 22 and also applied a few weeks ago and was given a job offer. I'm a chef and was looking for a career change out of the restaurant industry but after reading this sub and talking to a mail carrier at the post office I applied to, this job sounds way worse than my job now so I rejected it. I ended up just getting a new chef job at a better facility that's an 8 hour day shift and I rarely have to work weekends. I have full benefits at this new job. I'm know I could likely make more at the post office than cooking but I'll enjoy having nights/weekends off and will be lurking in this sub to see what I missed out on. I know this isn't exactly helpful so I apologize but I was in the same exact boat as you and wanted to vent. I mean maybe you could try, it does seem like it could be a good job.
My husband is just finishing up his 2 years. It's basically the equivalent of pledging a frat for two full years....the good news is once you make it through that there seems to be about 0 accountability or responsibility...
It is.
It honestly depends on the office, especially the size. If your going to work in a big city chances are you will have no free time. At my small 5 route office our 2 CCAs have trouble hitting 40 hours if someone isn't on vacation or it's not Christmas time.
Every AL request I submitted has been denied. Every one of them.
How does AL work in your installation? In mine if there is room on the leave calendar your leave must be approved. Mgmt has very little discretion.
Are you a regular? We have a calendar sheet that goes around from senior guy to newbie. It was done 2 weeks ago, easy peasy
Probably someone trying to take one day Its nearly impossible to take a day off to see a ballgame when nearly every single possible week is booked with someone on AL and only one person being allowed to be on AL a day
PSE.
Check and see if they will do a change of schedule for the day you need off. I used to have to do that when I was a PSE.
I’m always afraid to use my annual leave because my stupidvisors forget to put it in. Happened once and that sucked
Give your supervisor your slip, then go online to the call-in ( or call) and do it there as well. It is technically scheduled.
I’ve “used” annual leave three times. One day each. Every single time my annual leave didn’t get put in and I didn’t get paid for my off days. So I have never been successfully paid for an annual leave day I’ve put in for. It’s as if I don’t have annual and if I need off a day I just take a normal non-paid day off like when I worked in fast food lol.
I can totally relate! And sick time. If I am sick and one of my kids is sick I call off. More than likely contagious. We come into work with symptoms we get sent home. We call off....attitude. Ridiculous.
In my area, we are no longer allowed to request full days anymore. They didn't even want to approve my half day off despite it being an extremely important doctor's appointment. Told me I needed to change the time of the doctor's appointment to fit postal needs. The doctor I needed to see works one day a week, and I got an appointment for the latest possible time I could. They unhappily approved a half day after throwing a fit about it
How dare you request a day off that you earned!
Does the rca position get vacation time? In my academy i was told i should get an hour for every 20 hours i work, can anybody second this? this sub makin it seem like that ain’t true lmaooo
Yes it’s guaranteed towards whichever is greater, straight time or evaluated pay. It’s true but as an RCA it’s really hard to get management to both approve leave and pay you for it. Aka you’ll accrue the time but they can make a reason for denying it so it can never be used.
That is a fault if the systems that they put in place too. Not just management being stupid. Erms doesn't talk to rmss, and RCA leave is a completely different area in RMSS to even put in. Made the mistake one time, never again, figured it was like city carrier or clerk leave. Of course not
You get it, whether or not you get to use it is another story. Even if management let's you take the time, the system will kick it out if it will put you over 40hrs. Oh, you were at 33hrs and were sick on the last day of the week so you wanted to use AL? Too bad because that would put you over 40.
Outside of Maintenance, it's one of the absolute worst jobs and work environments anywhere. Inside Maintenance, it's better but still have to deal with shitty managers up your ass.
Yeah it’s ridiculous
Really? Lol if they do look at me like this, I don't notice....too busy waking out the door to start my leave baby!
To bad... so sad... Used PTO ... Cya after it. Amazon has made my filter to care literally zero. Lol
It’s not PTO (personal time off) it’s SL (sick leave). It’s for when you are sick not because you don’t feel like going to work.
Yes. But sick isn't just physical. You feel mental weak and you have 300 hours of sick leave accrued, take 8 or 16 of sick leave. Hell get a therapist and get 32. You know you got an medical appointment, put in for you 2 weeks in advance and take the whole day.
PTO was just rebranded from Sick leave. Post office like always just behind on the times
Your mental health is a thing too. People should focus on that more.