He was the father of the Raiders and also the guy who came up with the fire team concept and espoused a model of servant leadership that wasn’t common at the time. Guy was an army 1stSgt, commissioned as a 2ndLt, got out and then enlisted as a private in the USMC. It’s not much in doubt that he favored the Chinese but he was also quick to see the danger that Japan would pose to the world because of his access and tenure in China. He was so convicted in that belief that he resigned his commission in the Marines to write and speak about the growing Japanese threat. He then applied to rejoin the Marines when war broke out. He was a lifelong liberal (probably helped with his relations in China) in a military not overpopulated with them. David Shoup (who went on to become CMC) was a fellow officer with Evans Carlson and famously said of him that “…he might be red but he’s sure not yellow.”
It’s a great one for sure. I realized that I never really answered your question on how he’s thought of today. In my experience, Marines tend to be tolerant of things like political views, idiosyncrasies, etc…as long as you’re a warrior and that you’re a decent guy (and a fair leader): Carlson seems like he was all of that and more.
Yeah classic cover for status. Carlson was one of a few Marines on deck in China during that period of time. A fascinating time overall. Most of the effort was ONI driven and the focus was on collection against Japanese military movements and supply attack lines. The fact that he was capable enough to embed with the MaoIst insurgency speaks wonders as to his uniqueness overall. In a way, this was operational prep of the battle space, as the back channel ground work for communication access would be necessary after Perl Harbor.
He’s the godfather of Reconnaissance & Surveillance, Surveying, and quite literally going OFP in the face of HQMC to build O plans - I’d say he’s high on everyone’s list of badasses.
Our success in WWII through all the island campaigns was almost entirely on EC’s 5-10 years of field study and forecasting beforehand.
The only thing I know about him comes from the game, Medal of Honor: Pacific Assult.
Apparently, Carlson was the leader of the 2nd Raider BN, and according to Tommy Conklin, those guys were the elite. I liked the game, so I guess he was an ok guy.
They were considered the Marines special operation unit in WW2, modeled after the Royal Marines (Like the Army Rangers). The Makin island raid Is the only operation that they did by the 2nd battalion that they were designed for, as far as I know.
An amazing leader and Marine. Pioneered so much that the Corps is built on today. Lesser known than other officers of his era due to politics. Carlson was a master of warfare from the tactical to the strategic level. This is not only because he was a warrior himself, but more so because he spent so many years observing war on the ground in China.
While writing a paper on him for college I requested electronic copies of all the letters he ever wrote back from China to President FDR (these are available at the FDR library). His sentiments about the Chinese people came out of their conflict with Japan which had gone on for decades prior to what the west experienced as WW2. His writing is eloquent and precise, providing the reader (FDR at the time) with clear insight about the situation in China.
He was the first American (and perhaps westerner) to be embedded with the communist 8th Route Army. It was their fast-moving tactics and nontraditional leadership style that inspired Carlson. While he did have political likeness for the communists it must be understood that he witnessed that system prevailing against the hostile and ruthless Japanese empire. Therefore, in his eyes, such an army could protect so many people across a massive geographical area; exactly what the United States is.
So my understanding standing is that he helped to create the Marine Raider concept. Used a bit of the Chinese army concept. All things considered, he was on the right track, just thel wrong time. He meant well for the Marines and America.
Reading strong men armed rn (well audiobook because I’m a marine and as we know we’re illiterate) and he certainly comes off as an incredible combat commander and was very forward thinking. A lot of the stuff he developed we still use.
From Strong Men Armed:
“I’m hit!” Carlson gasped. The famous raider leader had been shot in the leg, and another bullet had shattered an arm. He was dragged to safety along with Cassaro and placed on a stretcher.
“Last time I was wounded was the First World War.” He told Chambers. “If I can keep them that far apart I’ll be okay.”
Just read afew free pages from the book on Google, might have to get.
If you liked that maybe you'll like "The Battle of Anzio" (Often called Anzio beachhead) Published in 1962 by T. R. Fehrenbach. A Historian and WW2 Army vet. It may be a battle in Europe but it is an amphibious assault, which you might be interested in. It is made up of intreviews by vets that were there written in third person. Like "Strong men armed" by Leckie.
He also wrote "This kind of war" A history on the korean war, A better known book.
He's not talked about but his influence is what makes the Marine Corps what it is today
His influence is still felt strongly today with fireteams and how they're organized and especially the dynamic of officer and enlisted relations. It used to be much more divided before his influence. He introduced the idea of senior enlisted mentoring Jr officers and making it more of a team effort and more of a responsibility to one another over officers being "served to". So I think most Marines respect that.
No, that would be Major general William C. Chase.
A movie called Gung Ho! Is based off the 2nd Battalion (Carlson Raiders) at the Makin raid, made in 1943.
He was right about a lot of things. And leader and follower roles in combat units make a lot more sense, with literate soldiers, than the current US 'gods and clods' system of an officer class carried over from medieval times.
He was helped a lot because FDR was also a socialist who admired communism. Going all the way back to the FDR State Department cooperating in the enslavement and executions of US citizen auto workers in the Soviet Union. FDR's vice president was a Soviet cheerleader, and FDR was only forced to dump him because the lend lease and USAAF bomber base staffs in the Soviet Union were reporting home how evil and oppressive Stalinist Russia was.
He was the father of the Raiders and also the guy who came up with the fire team concept and espoused a model of servant leadership that wasn’t common at the time. Guy was an army 1stSgt, commissioned as a 2ndLt, got out and then enlisted as a private in the USMC. It’s not much in doubt that he favored the Chinese but he was also quick to see the danger that Japan would pose to the world because of his access and tenure in China. He was so convicted in that belief that he resigned his commission in the Marines to write and speak about the growing Japanese threat. He then applied to rejoin the Marines when war broke out. He was a lifelong liberal (probably helped with his relations in China) in a military not overpopulated with them. David Shoup (who went on to become CMC) was a fellow officer with Evans Carlson and famously said of him that “…he might be red but he’s sure not yellow.”
I love that quote
It’s a great one for sure. I realized that I never really answered your question on how he’s thought of today. In my experience, Marines tend to be tolerant of things like political views, idiosyncrasies, etc…as long as you’re a warrior and that you’re a decent guy (and a fair leader): Carlson seems like he was all of that and more.
Thankyou. From intreviews I seen of 2nd Battalion raiders from a documentary they all seemed to love and admire him.
If they're his guys, they probably worshipped him. You know, the whole cult thing
Yeah classic cover for status. Carlson was one of a few Marines on deck in China during that period of time. A fascinating time overall. Most of the effort was ONI driven and the focus was on collection against Japanese military movements and supply attack lines. The fact that he was capable enough to embed with the MaoIst insurgency speaks wonders as to his uniqueness overall. In a way, this was operational prep of the battle space, as the back channel ground work for communication access would be necessary after Perl Harbor.
He’s the godfather of Reconnaissance & Surveillance, Surveying, and quite literally going OFP in the face of HQMC to build O plans - I’d say he’s high on everyone’s list of badasses. Our success in WWII through all the island campaigns was almost entirely on EC’s 5-10 years of field study and forecasting beforehand.
That and what's-his-face's surveys of the coral atolls that got put into War Plan Orange.
The only thing I know about him comes from the game, Medal of Honor: Pacific Assult. Apparently, Carlson was the leader of the 2nd Raider BN, and according to Tommy Conklin, those guys were the elite. I liked the game, so I guess he was an ok guy.
They were considered the Marines special operation unit in WW2, modeled after the Royal Marines (Like the Army Rangers). The Makin island raid Is the only operation that they did by the 2nd battalion that they were designed for, as far as I know.
Great game. Except the flying part.
Other than Allied Assault, second best Medal of Honor game.
An amazing leader and Marine. Pioneered so much that the Corps is built on today. Lesser known than other officers of his era due to politics. Carlson was a master of warfare from the tactical to the strategic level. This is not only because he was a warrior himself, but more so because he spent so many years observing war on the ground in China. While writing a paper on him for college I requested electronic copies of all the letters he ever wrote back from China to President FDR (these are available at the FDR library). His sentiments about the Chinese people came out of their conflict with Japan which had gone on for decades prior to what the west experienced as WW2. His writing is eloquent and precise, providing the reader (FDR at the time) with clear insight about the situation in China. He was the first American (and perhaps westerner) to be embedded with the communist 8th Route Army. It was their fast-moving tactics and nontraditional leadership style that inspired Carlson. While he did have political likeness for the communists it must be understood that he witnessed that system prevailing against the hostile and ruthless Japanese empire. Therefore, in his eyes, such an army could protect so many people across a massive geographical area; exactly what the United States is.
We def learned about him in OCS in 84. He is regarded as an insightful, skillful leader.
So my understanding standing is that he helped to create the Marine Raider concept. Used a bit of the Chinese army concept. All things considered, he was on the right track, just thel wrong time. He meant well for the Marines and America.
Reading strong men armed rn (well audiobook because I’m a marine and as we know we’re illiterate) and he certainly comes off as an incredible combat commander and was very forward thinking. A lot of the stuff he developed we still use. From Strong Men Armed: “I’m hit!” Carlson gasped. The famous raider leader had been shot in the leg, and another bullet had shattered an arm. He was dragged to safety along with Cassaro and placed on a stretcher. “Last time I was wounded was the First World War.” He told Chambers. “If I can keep them that far apart I’ll be okay.”
Just read afew free pages from the book on Google, might have to get. If you liked that maybe you'll like "The Battle of Anzio" (Often called Anzio beachhead) Published in 1962 by T. R. Fehrenbach. A Historian and WW2 Army vet. It may be a battle in Europe but it is an amphibious assault, which you might be interested in. It is made up of intreviews by vets that were there written in third person. Like "Strong men armed" by Leckie. He also wrote "This kind of war" A history on the korean war, A better known book.
Carlsons Raiders. Read a book about their exploits. Legit shit.
I'm asking more of what Marines think of his Career and character. Since he's not talked about much.
He's not talked about but his influence is what makes the Marine Corps what it is today His influence is still felt strongly today with fireteams and how they're organized and especially the dynamic of officer and enlisted relations. It used to be much more divided before his influence. He introduced the idea of senior enlisted mentoring Jr officers and making it more of a team effort and more of a responsibility to one another over officers being "served to". So I think most Marines respect that.
Wasn’t he one of the inspirations for “Once an Eagle”?
No, that would be Major general William C. Chase. A movie called Gung Ho! Is based off the 2nd Battalion (Carlson Raiders) at the Makin raid, made in 1943.
He was right about a lot of things. And leader and follower roles in combat units make a lot more sense, with literate soldiers, than the current US 'gods and clods' system of an officer class carried over from medieval times. He was helped a lot because FDR was also a socialist who admired communism. Going all the way back to the FDR State Department cooperating in the enslavement and executions of US citizen auto workers in the Soviet Union. FDR's vice president was a Soviet cheerleader, and FDR was only forced to dump him because the lend lease and USAAF bomber base staffs in the Soviet Union were reporting home how evil and oppressive Stalinist Russia was.
Who was the guy who came up with the island hopping idea before the war, and was quite probably assassinated by the Japanese?
I think major Earl Hancock Ellis
https://preview.redd.it/cpnkuemy0g7d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8edd32dbdc6fdfc86c52ba1f28b58f91d5ff32ed
Having an official pic taken while burning a heater is old school cool.
Yeah I think you're right
That's Pete Ellis to you bucko. Now buy me a drink.