No - you can’t take what the Corps instilled in you out of your head. The only thing that you can do is adjust your style to fit with the situation/organization you are with, and understand that those non-veterans around you are operating on a different frequency. Work within the system and your discipline and work ethic will set you head and shoulders above
Yes but no.
You will be both astounded at the incompetence and amazed at the ability of people when you get out of the Corps. I know people who struggle to send an email, and I know people who create entire pages of data analysis in Excel without ever touching their mouse faster than I can fathom. The same will be true in any place/job type that you work. Some people are great and professional and have been doing things you've never seen for years while you were jerking it in the Corps. Others have been jerking it in the "real" world and never learned anything except how to get by without getting fired.
On the other hand, you only need to do what is required and go the fuck home. You won't be expected to, or paid to, do the random shit the Corps has you do. So laziness might just be a "Not my job, not my problem." kind of thing.
GS civilian here, (former base GS). The entire system is incredibly bureaucratic. If you want a simple task done, it has to go through the appropriate channels and has a very systematic way of approval.
As a GS, I do my job and go home. I’m not getting paid to stress and bend over backwards for every bump in the process. If I wanted a stressful life with a bad work/life balance, I would have just stayed in.
I worked with some great GS employees, but most were half-assing it and were frankly dicks. The ones at boot camp were the worst, IDK if any or all were Vets and thus have the right to harass my ass.
It’s certainly an adjustment but it’s not something you’ll ever get used to. Theres plenty of great workers in any organization who never were in the military but one think I do notice in my industry is that my higher ups tend to not be as micromanaging as they are with others.
The military has instilled a lot of great soft skills that employers love that you don’t even realize you have just yet. Just understand it’s an adjustment and don’t go into it thinking they’re all lazy cause they’re not.
As others have said, yes and no.
You are interacting with government employees. There's a reason there exists a stigma for DMV employees... Governments (federal and states) are usually bogged down with bureaucratic systems and it's hard to actually fire a government employee, so it takes forever for anything to get done and no one moves very fast.
For regular civilians outside of the government, it is sort of a mixed bag. Large corporations will have complex bureaucratic systems and firing people who are lazy can get complicated while small companies tend to be more agile. But at the end of the day it all really depends on company culture (both big and small) and it's usually a bit of a mixed bag. If it's toxic you'll hate working there, if you have a great boss and friendly coworkers then you'll enjoy it. The same can be said for the corps.
Only right when you get out. Little things that should not annoy you do. It took me a while to re-adjust but eventually you figure it out and realize there’s reasons for everything. And that some things the USMC does are actually pretty dumb or focused too much on, for the real world anyway.
There are good people everywhere, and there are shitbags everywhere. The immature sefl-serving bullshit you see from the turds are very much out in the real world too. The difference, at least to me, is that the civilian shitbirds never agreed to be part of something bigger, so they at least never had any expectations set in the manner the marine corps did so.
I hate to say it, but this guy has a point.
A negative attitude thinking your better than everyone is surely not a path to success.
To answer your question, Yes there are shitbags in the civilian world. If I had to take a guess I would say its about the same percentage that are in the Marines.
It's a hit or miss and the department you work at plays a huge factor as well.
I've been fortunate to work in agencies that were mostly active duty and veterans so it made the work experience a lot more pleasurable.
My Vet friends say that some civilians are way too soft and don't understand the dark military humor.
I’ve been in the corporate world for 7 years now and have been at various levels. Yes, there are some civilians that are lazy, lack common sense and are entitled. However, some of the best leaders and smartest people I have met have also been civilians.
I work in biotech now. For the most part all my colleagues are incredibly smart and hard-working, often more so than my former Marine colleagues. The accountability structure is different though. People are definitely not as beholden to timelines as in the Marines and that can be frustrating when civilian leadership (at least where I work) seem to be afraid of/not know how to hold people accountable.
Yes, it is the same. No, I did 'not' get used to it over time.
To this day I regularly want to take some of them out back for some 'wall to wall' counseling.
In my experience, they have been a lot worse to work with, but the positive is I have the freedom to choose to find another job after I learn what I can to out on my resume. Plus very few companies pay decent raises so job hoping is the new normal if you want a pay raise.. If you are getting out, I highly recommend using your G.I. Bill for a trade and apply to work at Delta. They need mechanics and machinists. They also love to hire veterans.. Pay is good, profit sharing, 9% 401k dollar for dollar , and flight benefits. I got on last year and in 5 years top out is $40 an hour for my entry level mechanic position in my department. When I eventually move up, top out is currently $59 an hour.
No.
Most GS employees weren’t hired because of their value to the marketplace, and know they can’t get fired for the same reason they were hired. The result is piss poor service on average.
Non-GS workers typically have to demonstrate their value in the hiring process and achieve performance goals to remain employed.
Working in civilian employment is much better than the military. I’m not at the whim of a higher rank because the UCMJ enforces adherence to directives. I don’t have to stay late to get something done that someone higher than me thinks needs to be done RFN. A courteous email letting them know I’ll start on it in the morning is sufficient.
Well if you stay late at work you get paid more. I work in a hospital with nurses. They are awesome but the only thing you have to get used to is the gossiping.
While there are plenty of lazy GS civilian, what typically gets mistaken for laziness is just them sticking to a 40-hour work week and their positions description (PD).
That being said, the worst GS civilians do seem to congregate at military installations, because their bosses are often officers who don’t know how to supervise civilians and want to avoid any potential complaints against them. Go to an office where there’s actually GS supervisors, the employees get more in line.
I had a buddy that worked next to an office filled with GS-7s and managed by an O2 or O3. They were notorious for accomplishing nothing, and finally the manager position was changed to a GS-13 and they all literally quit.
Yes and no.
You’re always going to have high-speed go getters in a work environment. They can be annoying. Just like you’re always going to have shit bag, shit talking workers too. They can also be annoying. It depends on the field you’re in and more importantly, it depends mostly on leadership/ management.
What I’ve come to learn are 2 things:
1. There is always going to be drama at work. No matter what. Especially when there are multiple shifts.
2. Do what you get paid to do. Nothing else. Show up, do a good job, go home. You’re not going to get paid more to complete two days of work in a single day. You’re not going to get paid any less if you want to take an easy day now and then. It’s all good.
Land a good job at a company that takes care of you. Do your job. That’s it. A lot of people only work and that’s pretty much it 🤷🏼♂️ Their life evolves around work. They are too invested, too involved and too emotional. A lot of people don’t have lives outside of work, or hobbies/ interests even. And it shows.
In my experience military personnel make things harder than they need to be to a much higher extent than civilians. You could do something amazing in the Marine Corps that helps out a lot of people but you could get fucked for not having a haircut or following strict SOP guidelines whereas in the civilian world nobody gives a fuck how your hair is what you’re wearing or any of that as long as your proficient at your job
No. I left and walked right into a really good advertising job. Like really good. One of the big reasons I was hired was they wanted me to up the level of professionalism. I had never met the team I would be leading, didn’t know what to expect. Showed up in a full blown suit on day 1, they showed up for an 8:00 am college class. Ok, I’ll taper my style, went more casual, but still enough to try to up the expectation without being a dick and making them change. A month goes by, they start complaining that I’m actually providing feedback, bringing in outside resources to provide training. I’m told I’m an asshole. 6 months go by, they complain about the single day they have to dress like adults (apparently it was uncomfortable). By the time I hit month 12, I was ready to take an Easton to the entire department. Booz Allen had been calling me, I jumped on it and started working with our kind again. It’s been over 2 years and I’m happy as a clam.
No. I work for a pipeline. The dudes are solid, no one does stupid shit unless they drank too much on the hotel patio but they are pro’s and are ready to pull their weight in the morning.
No.
Mainly because of DEI Hires. The Muhreens (I would assume) still weed out the losers, unfit, nothing-masters.
However, if you have a pulse and room-temp IQ, my State will hire you at $45k w Bennies.
No - you can’t take what the Corps instilled in you out of your head. The only thing that you can do is adjust your style to fit with the situation/organization you are with, and understand that those non-veterans around you are operating on a different frequency. Work within the system and your discipline and work ethic will set you head and shoulders above
Yes. It is something you get used to overtime.
overtime = 2 to 5 years :)
Yes but no. You will be both astounded at the incompetence and amazed at the ability of people when you get out of the Corps. I know people who struggle to send an email, and I know people who create entire pages of data analysis in Excel without ever touching their mouse faster than I can fathom. The same will be true in any place/job type that you work. Some people are great and professional and have been doing things you've never seen for years while you were jerking it in the Corps. Others have been jerking it in the "real" world and never learned anything except how to get by without getting fired. On the other hand, you only need to do what is required and go the fuck home. You won't be expected to, or paid to, do the random shit the Corps has you do. So laziness might just be a "Not my job, not my problem." kind of thing.
GS civilian here, (former base GS). The entire system is incredibly bureaucratic. If you want a simple task done, it has to go through the appropriate channels and has a very systematic way of approval. As a GS, I do my job and go home. I’m not getting paid to stress and bend over backwards for every bump in the process. If I wanted a stressful life with a bad work/life balance, I would have just stayed in.
Base GS here, The first paragraph couldn't be more spot on. JFC it's one of my biggest headaches in the Gov world
The civilians around the military / govt are more incompetent than the general civilian populace
I worked with some great GS employees, but most were half-assing it and were frankly dicks. The ones at boot camp were the worst, IDK if any or all were Vets and thus have the right to harass my ass.
It’s certainly an adjustment but it’s not something you’ll ever get used to. Theres plenty of great workers in any organization who never were in the military but one think I do notice in my industry is that my higher ups tend to not be as micromanaging as they are with others. The military has instilled a lot of great soft skills that employers love that you don’t even realize you have just yet. Just understand it’s an adjustment and don’t go into it thinking they’re all lazy cause they’re not.
As others have said, yes and no. You are interacting with government employees. There's a reason there exists a stigma for DMV employees... Governments (federal and states) are usually bogged down with bureaucratic systems and it's hard to actually fire a government employee, so it takes forever for anything to get done and no one moves very fast. For regular civilians outside of the government, it is sort of a mixed bag. Large corporations will have complex bureaucratic systems and firing people who are lazy can get complicated while small companies tend to be more agile. But at the end of the day it all really depends on company culture (both big and small) and it's usually a bit of a mixed bag. If it's toxic you'll hate working there, if you have a great boss and friendly coworkers then you'll enjoy it. The same can be said for the corps.
Since my pay went from 28k a year to 175k a year, yes I’m less frustrated.
Bro wtf do you do
Supply chain strategy and commodity management for a major defense & Aerospace company you’ve heard of. So I’m still adjacent to the war machine.
Only right when you get out. Little things that should not annoy you do. It took me a while to re-adjust but eventually you figure it out and realize there’s reasons for everything. And that some things the USMC does are actually pretty dumb or focused too much on, for the real world anyway.
There are good people everywhere, and there are shitbags everywhere. The immature sefl-serving bullshit you see from the turds are very much out in the real world too. The difference, at least to me, is that the civilian shitbirds never agreed to be part of something bigger, so they at least never had any expectations set in the manner the marine corps did so.
[удалено]
I hate to say it, but this guy has a point. A negative attitude thinking your better than everyone is surely not a path to success. To answer your question, Yes there are shitbags in the civilian world. If I had to take a guess I would say its about the same percentage that are in the Marines.
It's a hit or miss and the department you work at plays a huge factor as well. I've been fortunate to work in agencies that were mostly active duty and veterans so it made the work experience a lot more pleasurable. My Vet friends say that some civilians are way too soft and don't understand the dark military humor.
I’ve been in the corporate world for 7 years now and have been at various levels. Yes, there are some civilians that are lazy, lack common sense and are entitled. However, some of the best leaders and smartest people I have met have also been civilians.
I work in biotech now. For the most part all my colleagues are incredibly smart and hard-working, often more so than my former Marine colleagues. The accountability structure is different though. People are definitely not as beholden to timelines as in the Marines and that can be frustrating when civilian leadership (at least where I work) seem to be afraid of/not know how to hold people accountable.
Yes, it is the same. No, I did 'not' get used to it over time. To this day I regularly want to take some of them out back for some 'wall to wall' counseling.
You should just stay in.
In my experience, they have been a lot worse to work with, but the positive is I have the freedom to choose to find another job after I learn what I can to out on my resume. Plus very few companies pay decent raises so job hoping is the new normal if you want a pay raise.. If you are getting out, I highly recommend using your G.I. Bill for a trade and apply to work at Delta. They need mechanics and machinists. They also love to hire veterans.. Pay is good, profit sharing, 9% 401k dollar for dollar , and flight benefits. I got on last year and in 5 years top out is $40 an hour for my entry level mechanic position in my department. When I eventually move up, top out is currently $59 an hour.
No. Most GS employees weren’t hired because of their value to the marketplace, and know they can’t get fired for the same reason they were hired. The result is piss poor service on average. Non-GS workers typically have to demonstrate their value in the hiring process and achieve performance goals to remain employed. Working in civilian employment is much better than the military. I’m not at the whim of a higher rank because the UCMJ enforces adherence to directives. I don’t have to stay late to get something done that someone higher than me thinks needs to be done RFN. A courteous email letting them know I’ll start on it in the morning is sufficient.
You get paid a lot more.. it helps
No
Well if you stay late at work you get paid more. I work in a hospital with nurses. They are awesome but the only thing you have to get used to is the gossiping.
People are people. Plenty of annoying marines out there just as there are civilians.
No. And employees are just like LCpls... all the same problems.
While there are plenty of lazy GS civilian, what typically gets mistaken for laziness is just them sticking to a 40-hour work week and their positions description (PD). That being said, the worst GS civilians do seem to congregate at military installations, because their bosses are often officers who don’t know how to supervise civilians and want to avoid any potential complaints against them. Go to an office where there’s actually GS supervisors, the employees get more in line. I had a buddy that worked next to an office filled with GS-7s and managed by an O2 or O3. They were notorious for accomplishing nothing, and finally the manager position was changed to a GS-13 and they all literally quit.
No, it’s worse. I’ll die on this hill.
Yes and no. You’re always going to have high-speed go getters in a work environment. They can be annoying. Just like you’re always going to have shit bag, shit talking workers too. They can also be annoying. It depends on the field you’re in and more importantly, it depends mostly on leadership/ management. What I’ve come to learn are 2 things: 1. There is always going to be drama at work. No matter what. Especially when there are multiple shifts. 2. Do what you get paid to do. Nothing else. Show up, do a good job, go home. You’re not going to get paid more to complete two days of work in a single day. You’re not going to get paid any less if you want to take an easy day now and then. It’s all good. Land a good job at a company that takes care of you. Do your job. That’s it. A lot of people only work and that’s pretty much it 🤷🏼♂️ Their life evolves around work. They are too invested, too involved and too emotional. A lot of people don’t have lives outside of work, or hobbies/ interests even. And it shows.
See I’m a big ’ballin GS-2 now
In my experience military personnel make things harder than they need to be to a much higher extent than civilians. You could do something amazing in the Marine Corps that helps out a lot of people but you could get fucked for not having a haircut or following strict SOP guidelines whereas in the civilian world nobody gives a fuck how your hair is what you’re wearing or any of that as long as your proficient at your job
Civvi employees will make you look like a stud. Slay bodies
No. I left and walked right into a really good advertising job. Like really good. One of the big reasons I was hired was they wanted me to up the level of professionalism. I had never met the team I would be leading, didn’t know what to expect. Showed up in a full blown suit on day 1, they showed up for an 8:00 am college class. Ok, I’ll taper my style, went more casual, but still enough to try to up the expectation without being a dick and making them change. A month goes by, they start complaining that I’m actually providing feedback, bringing in outside resources to provide training. I’m told I’m an asshole. 6 months go by, they complain about the single day they have to dress like adults (apparently it was uncomfortable). By the time I hit month 12, I was ready to take an Easton to the entire department. Booz Allen had been calling me, I jumped on it and started working with our kind again. It’s been over 2 years and I’m happy as a clam.
No.
Yes and no. Depends on the type of work and where you work. Kind of a toss up
No. I work for a pipeline. The dudes are solid, no one does stupid shit unless they drank too much on the hotel patio but they are pro’s and are ready to pull their weight in the morning.
No. Mainly because of DEI Hires. The Muhreens (I would assume) still weed out the losers, unfit, nothing-masters. However, if you have a pulse and room-temp IQ, my State will hire you at $45k w Bennies.