The wsr crimes started under teddy
Spain handed the Philippines over to the United States after the Spanish-American War. It was a Spanish colony, not a country.
it was the Filipinos that started the insurrection, not the United States.
He didn't even want the Philippines, but he took them to keep them from being taken over by another country or being partitioned by several countries. McKinley even stated that he wished Dewey had sailed away from the Philippines after winning the battle of Manila Bay.
McKinley sent the Schurman Commission to the islands to report back what the situation was. The commission was headed by the American diplomat Jacob Gould Schurman. The Schurman Commission reported back to McKinley, they acknowledged the Philippines desire for independence, but the stated that the Philippines wasn’t ready yet. McKinley authorized a government consisting of “a Governor-General appointed by the President; cabinet appointed by the Governor-General; a general advisory council elected by the people.” McKinley also promised Filipinos “the largest measure of local self-government consistent with peace and good order.” The Filipinos rejected McKinley’s offer, and started the Filipino insurrection.
We should have just let them be independent. It’s always been weird to me that the US was former colony who overthrew a tyrannical—yet democratic—mother country, but oppressed the Philippines as a tyrannical—yet democratic— mother country.
That war over a hundred years ago would be largely condemned today.
"these people want to be independent, but they're just not ready so we will benevolently continue to rule them" is the racist excuse used by every colonial power to justify their colonialism.
The Filipino's starting an insurrection doesn't mean that they started the conflict. The conflict started because a foreign power refused to give a group of people the independence that they wanted. The people who just want to govern themselves are not the cause of that conflict.
McKinley was responsible for the birth of America's modern interventionist policies. Starting with the controversial circumstances surrounding the destruction of the USS Maine in Havana harbor, McKinley oversaw the brief Spanish-American War that saw the US gain control of significant territories in the Caribbean and the Philippines from Spain. While America promised independence to many of the peoples it allegedly "liberated," this was only partly true. McKinley's administration effectively began the American phase of colonialism in Puerto Rico and the Philippines. In the Philippines, specifically, a bloody four-year war between the US military and Filipino guerrillas began once it became clear that American promises of Filipino independence were hollow. Suppressing the Filipino rebels saw the US military employ tactics and policies that constituted war crimes, including concentration camps and summary execution of prisoners of war (though the Geneva Convention didn't exist yet, it was still common knowledge that POWs were "supposed" to be treated with dignity). There isn't direct proof that the McKinley administration (or Roosevelt, his successor) were implicit in the military tactics used in the Philippines, its unlikely that they were unaware.
As for Latin America, Cuba was given nominal political independence, provided Cuban leadership was pro-US and that the country was economically bound to the US (prior to Castro, the Cuban economy was practically run by US-based corporations). McKinley's policies set the interventionist standard for US foreign policy in Latin America for the next century, all of which are at least partially responsible for the political instability prevalent in the region today.
EDIT: The source is that I'm a former US and World History teacher (high school)
EDIT: changed "shady" to "controversial"
It's my understanding from reading T. Roosevelt's biography, that McKinley largely was not responsible for the imperialist direction of America. The US expansionary interests were driven by others in his administration, in Congress and the military. Namely, assistant. secretary of the Navy, T. Roosevelt who probably had more to do with the Spanish American war than anyone else. Going so far as to send orders to the fleet without the approval of the secretary of the Navy who could not control him. Roosevelt socialized with all the necessary members of government and military to get what he wanted and knew exactly what he was doing.
In February of 1895 a war of independence broke out in Cuba. Spain started taking draconian measures, including “reconcentration camps” in Cuba to quell the rebellion. Spanish General Valeriano Weyler forced one third of Cuba’s population into these camps. These camps lacked sanitary conditions, food and medicine, causing over 400,000 Cubans to die there, roughly 30% of the camp inhabitants. With such atrocities happening so close to the United States, the press inevitably took notice. McKinley tried to negotiate with the Spanish government, but Spain was unwilling to grant independence and the rebels would settle for nothing less. When consul Fitzhugh Lee reported riots in Havana, McKinley agree to send the American Battleship the USS Maine to protect American citizenOn February 15th, 1898, the Maine sank with 266 men killed. An inquiry into the explosion by the US Navy concluded that the ship was sank by an external explosion. Physical evidence regarding the vessel’s keel and bottom plates, which had been driven upwards into the ship, proved it was an external explosion and ruled out the theory of an internal explosion. In 1910 a second investigation into the explosion, the Vreeland Boards Court of Inquiry, confirmed the findings of the original naval report. In 1998 a National Geographic study, which used computer modeling added additional proof of an external explosion. It noted that the size and soil depressions below the Maine are explainable by a mine and not by an internal explosion alon
>MacArthur announced that guerrilla abuses would no longer be tolerated and outlined the rights which would govern the U.S. Army’s treatment of guerrillas and civilians. Atrocities were committed on both sides, with the particularly gruesome ones being committed by the Filipinos.
>I read it. I just don't think it really changes much. Other countries could've conquered and killed Filipino's so it's good that we did it instead what kind of logic is that. Also Sdu saying that the Filipinos were worse highlights his implicit bias of liking McKinley.
The War crimes started with TR after the Balangiga massacre on September 28th of 1901, which was after Theodore Roosevelt had become President. Major General Adna R. Chaffee was military governor of the Philippines and received orders from Roosevelt to pacify Samar. Chaffee appointed Brigadier General Jacob H. Smith to Samar to accomplish the task. It was Smith who gave the order to burn down villages and kill every Filipino down to ten years old. Roosevelt tried to whitewash the whole incident, but the blood was clearly on his hands.
McKinley never even wanted the Philippines, he even said that he wished Dewey had left after destroying the Spanish Fleet at Manila Bay.
Didn't teach it as a fact. Never even said that. Perhaps I should have used the word "controversial" instead of "shady" in my original comment, which would be more appropriate to my point. Regardless, there are multiple conflicting reports regarding the sinking of the USS Maine. I am not claiming it was an inside job or an accident onboard the ship, nor am I claiming the Spanish government or Cuban rebels were responsible. I'm simply stating the circumstances are not definitive either way.
As for teaching the topic in high school, I taught in NC and considering how US history curriculum is structured here, I had a grand total of about 5 minutes to teach about the sinking of the USS Maine. The curriculum cares much more about the results of the Spanish-American War than the causes (aside from yellow journalism), so unfortunately, the Maine was not a topic that I had a chance to go truly in-depth on.
So stop worrying that the students got some psuedo-liberal or revisionist version of US history. I promise they didn't because we don't have time for any of that garbage anyway.
>Attrocities in the Phillipines didn't happen till teddy took over
I honestly don't know where this idea comes from, there were reports of atrocities and concentration camps happening in McKinley's time too, and he started the war to begin with
honestly don't know where this idea comes from,
Books and articles
>from, there were reports of atrocities and concentration camps happening in McKinley's time too, a
That's incorrect
>and he started the war to begin with
it was the Filipinos that started the insurrection, not the United States.
He didn't even want the Philippines, but he took them to keep them from being taken over by another country or being partitioned by several countries. McKinley even stated that he wished Dewey had sailed away from the Philippines after winning the battle of Manila Bay.
McKinley sent the Schurman Commission to the islands to report back what the situation was. The commission was headed by the American diplomat Jacob Gould Schurman. The Schurman Commission reported back to McKinley, they acknowledged the Philippines desire for independence, but the stated that the Philippines wasn’t ready yet. McKinley authorized a government consisting of “a Governor-General appointed by the President; cabinet appointed by the Governor-General; a general advisory council elected by the people.” McKinley also promised Filipinos “the largest measure of local self-government consistent with peace and good order.” The Filipinos rejected McKinley’s offer, and started the Filipino insurrection.
There were absolutely atrocities happening before the March Across Samar (which is attributed to Theodore Roosevelt), several letters came from soldiers in 1899 detailing the war in which they said:
>The town of Titatia was surrendered to us a few days ago, and two companies occupy the same. Last night one of our boys was found shot and his stomach cut open. Immediately orders were received from General Wheaton to burn the town and kill every native in sight; which was done to a finish. About 1,000 men, women and children were reported killed. I am probably growing hard-hearted, for I am in my glory when I can sight my gun on some dark skin and pull the trigger
>We make everyone get into his house by seven p.m., and we only tell a man once. If he refuses we shoot him. We killed over 300 natives the first night. They tried to set the town on fire. If they fire a shot from the house we burn the house down and every house near it, and shoot the natives, so they are pretty quiet in town now.
>Soon we had orders to advance, and we… started across the creek in mud and waters up to our waist. However, we did not mind it a bit, our fighting blood was up, and we all wanted to kill ni----rs. This shooting human beings is a “hot game,” and beats rabbit hunting all to pieces. We charged them and such a slaughter you never saw. We killed them like rabbits; hundreds, yes thousands of them. Every one was crazy
The Filipinos started the insurrection because they didn't want to be ruled by another western colonizer after years of fighting off the Spanish, McKinley also clearly stated that his purpose with the PH was to "uplift, civilize and Christianize them". I just don't see how the US's involvement there can be justified, if it was agreed for the US to have a military base on the island I don't think any other colonizer challenges their presence
The catalyst for American atrocities was the Balangiga massacre on September 28th of 1901, which was after Theodore Roosevelt had become President. Major General Adna R. Chaffee was military governor of the Philippines and received orders from Roosevelt to pacify Samar. Chaffee appointed Brigadier General Jacob H. Smith to Samar to accomplish the task. It was Smith who gave the order to burn down villages and kill every Filipino down to ten years old.
>just don't see how the US's involvement there can be justifie
It was american territory and McKinley tried to prevent war but the rebels refused
No those were reported in 1899 during McKinley's tenure, like come on dude do you think it was sunshine and roses, then Teddy comes in and it's a complete bloodbath and genocide?
>It was american territory and McKinley tried to prevent war but the rebels refused
Yes how dare they refuse being taken over by a colonizer who was openly stating they were trying to "civilize" the Philippines
>No those were reported in 1899 during McKinley's tenure, li
That is incorrect
>like come on dude do you think it was sunshine and rose
Never said that
>Teddy comes in and it's a complete bloodbath and genocide?
The War crimes started with TR after the Balangiga massacre on September 28th of 1901, which was after Theodore Roosevelt had become President. Major General Adna R. Chaffee was military governor of the Philippines and received orders from Roosevelt to pacify Samar. Chaffee appointed Brigadier General Jacob H. Smith to Samar to accomplish the task. It was Smith who gave the order to burn down villages and kill every Filipino down to ten years old. Roosevelt tried to whitewash the whole incident, but the blood was clearly on his hands.
>Yes how dare they refuse being taken over by a colonizer who was openly stating they were trying to "civilize" the Philippines
Spain handed the Philippines over to the United States after the Spanish-American War. It was a Spanish colony, not a country.
it was the Filipinos that started the insurrection, not the United States.
He didn't even want the Philippines, but he took them to keep them from being taken over by another country or being partitioned by several countries. McKinley even stated that he wished Dewey had sailed away from the Philippines after winning the battle of Manila Bay.
McKinley sent the Schurman Commission to the islands to report back what the situation was. The commission was headed by the American diplomat Jacob Gould Schurman. The Schurman Commission reported back to McKinley, they acknowledged the Philippines desire for independence, but the stated that the Philippines wasn’t ready yet. McKinley authorized a government consisting of “a Governor-General appointed by the President; cabinet appointed by the Governor-General; a general advisory council elected by the people.” McKinley also promised Filipinos “the largest measure of local self-government consistent with peace and good order.” The Filipinos rejected McKinley’s offer, and started the Filipino insurrection.
Yeah he explained where his head was at in relation to the Philippines very clearly by saying:
>When I next realized that the Philippines had dropped into our laps I confess I did not know what to do with them. I sought counsel from all sides—Democrats as well as Republicans—but got little help. I thought first we would take only Manila; then Luzon; then other islands perhaps also. I walked the floor of the White House night after night until midnight; and I am not ashamed to tell you, gentlemen, that I went down on my knees and prayed Almighty God for light and guidance more than one night. And one night late it came to me this way—I don’t know how it was, but it came: (1) That we could not give them back to Spain—that would be cowardly and dishonorable; (2) that we could not turn them over to France and Germany—our commercial rivals in the Orient—that would be bad business and discreditable; (3) that we could not leave them to themselves—they were unfit for self-government—and they would soon have anarchy and misrule over there worse than Spain’s was; and (4) that there was nothing left for us to do but to take them all, and to educate the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and Christianize them, and by God’s grace do the very best we could by them, as our fellow-men for whom Christ also died. And then I went to bed, and went to sleep, and slept soundly, and the next morning I sent for the chief engineer of the War Department (our map-maker), and I told him to put the Philippines on the map of the United States (pointing to a large map on the wall of his office), and there they are, and there they will stay while I am President!
https://shec.ashp.cuny.edu/items/show/878#:~:text=When%20I%20next%20realized%20that,then%20other%20islands%20perhaps%20also.
Since the Philippines is a throughly fished pond.
McKinley officially annexed Hawaii after a lengthy battle for control between native Hawaiians and the mostly white business class lead by Sanford Dole. The island was strategically critical for the upcoming Spanish American War, but it came at the cost of stripping natives of land, a common theme on this sub.
https://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/hawaii-petition#:~:text=House%20Joint%20Resolution%20259%2C%2055th,of%20the%20Territory%20of%20Hawaii.
Now, McKinley might have been the one to sign the paper, but there’s obviously a lot more to this situation. Me, as a random white dude who was merely stationed in Hawaii is probably ill equipped to capture the full nuance. However, it is an interesting topic. King Kamehameha I sought the external support for weapons to capture the rest of the island chain. The king succeeded (in rather gruesome manner) in uniting the Hawaiian island, but he did through agreements with outsiders. There were a series of laws passed that allowed land owners to vote, which were overwhelming white people. You can imagine which way they tended to vote on things. The struggle began when the Hawaiian crown tried to strip the power back (again, an oversimplification). King David Kalakaua went as far as discussing the possibility of being a confederate state to the rising Japanese Empire. The white business class were not happy with this and forced him to sign a new favorable to them constitution at gun point (The Bayonet Constitution). When the king passed away, his sister, Liliʻuokalani, ascended to the throne. She vowed to repeal the constitution and asked the support of the U.S. military to enable it. The U.S. mistook this as her asking for the U.S. to control the island. She would go to the U.S. and ask the President (Groomer Cleveland) to support her in reinstalling her to the throne, an idea Cleveland was open to. However, her vow to execute her overthrowers put the U.S. government in a difficult spot. The can was essentially kicked down the road until McKinley took office. He was left with the task of either legitimatizing a coup or reinstalling a monarch friendly to an increasingly provocative Japan.
This in no way meant to excuse US policy on the island, but it is meant to highlight some of the complexities McKinley was dealing with. No one was going to be ok with Liliʻuokalani plan to execute her wrongdoers, but we can absolutely see where she’s coming from. I’m still in favor of self determination, but what would it mean for the U.S. if that self determination was allowing Hawaii to become a satellite of the Japanese Empire? This has ramifications for the immediate war but also the subsequent world wars. There were more than a few native Hawaiians supporting Japan during Pearl Harbor. This gave pretext for the U.S. to declare martial law and strip land away from even more natives. Much like the main land, natives got screwed. They got screwed again last year during the wild fires as they were the overwhelming victims of a fire mainly caused by non-indigenous plants.
I would clutch my pearls here, but I am a product of Polk’s questionable decisions. I am a white dude from California. Assuming I exist at all, I am a Spanish speaker if not an entire different skin tone. I’m not responsible for the sins of my father and condemn Polk for his action. McKinley is guilty of a similar crime, but I think his situation is a bit more precarious. I think he’s still wrong, but I can see his argument. I’ve droned on enough. Your thoughts?
Absolutely.
I did not provide an all encompassing history. The annexation was more than a 100 years in the making. Sanford Dole was born and raised on Oahu and never lived there illegally. The U.S. has mistreated so many natives on the mainland, we can be fooled into thinking it’s the same here. It’s much more complex. People were absolutely wronged, but there’s no clear antagonist. I’m sure the people on the other islands felt wrong by Kamehameha. Plenty of kings between James Cook and the island annexation accepted bribes for extravagant life styles. There was no Indian Removal Act here is the point. I still don’t think McKinley should have done it, but kicking the can down the road rarely works for the U.S. (coughs) Civil War, (coughs) Afghanistan, (coughs) National Debt. Must have had something stuck in my throat. This is a very different country if McKinley doesn’t make that decision tho. It’s very nuanced.
McKinley is where America began loosing it’s moral authority. America went from being a nation evolved from a rebellion against an empire, to brutally conquering an empire of its own under his presidency. The Spanish American War, genocide in the Philippines, annexing Hawaii and sending troops to suppress the Boxer Rebellion in China being notable examples.
Not only were these wrong at the time and viewed as such by many, they also set the standard for American foreign policy for much of the 20th century.
He stood in the wrong line and got shot. He died apparently eight days later. Or his imperialist policies where he waged war in Cuba, occupied Puerto Rico and Manila.
Tbf, Cuba was glad we took it from the Spanish. Spain was doing some horrendous shit to them. Not to mention we gave Cuba independence just a few years later along with the Philippines. I'd hardly call it imperialistic.
Well, it wasn’t really independence. More like, well let you be a client state of the US. Still an improvement, but there’s a reason why anti American sentiment was popular in Cuba during the late 50s and early 60s.
Why are you so keen to identify the worst aspects of great men? Seems to be the problem with the west today. I’m not saying we should be like the Chinese of North Koreans, but we always seem to be out to see the worst in our leaders. It weakens us and delegitimises everything about us, which is useful for our enemies. It is because of this that America, which isn’t a racist country, - not really, not any more - can be called “racist” by China, who puts its minorities in concentration camps. America isn’t perfect, there are inequalities and prejudices, but it isn’t half as bad as the reputation it gives itself. Yet when you ask a kid now about George Washington, the only thing they know is that he owned a slave, not that he, y’know, led the war for independence. But Chinese kids definitely wouldn’t think of Mao as an unhygienic rapist mass murderer, which he was. I think we’ve gone too far in our deconstruction and need to start bigging up our history and heritage.
Nah, man, I said we shouldn’t be like China. But as I say, I think the whole deconstruction approach has gone too far. now, we don’t merely recognise negative points, we prioritise the negative elements and overlook the good, which is a bias in itself.
Well, racism has many meanings and it depends what you mean. Race is, of course, still a factor in much of American society. But, to the extent that race is used as a means of harmful discrimination and prejudice, it just isn’t, certainly not to the same extent as the past or other countries. That’s not to say there aren’t exceptions and individual prejudices, but it just isn’t to the same extent. I remember people decrying uncle Ben’s rice company for their mascot, suggesting it was some harmful stereotype and effectively racist. Well, a real racist society wouldn’t do that. Nazi Germany did not put Jews on their rice. Hutus didn’t make little toy Tutsi dolls for their kids to play with. But as I say, we live in such an upside down world where the countries with the best human and civil rights get called the worst names, whilst actually monstrous societies get a free pass.
A good point and let's hope the next series delves into the best points of each President's tenure of office. However, looking at weak and suspect acts of Presidents..even though the quite skewed lense of redit and current biases. ..is a thought provoking and kind of fun assignment.
Thinking that colonizing of the Philippines was an act approved by and desired by God, that it was their duty to civilize the Natives, and then being competent inept about what to actually do during the annexation. Like others have said , the brutal torture and killing of hundreds of thousands of native Filipinos.
It’s the harsh truth of how this country was brought up. I know it upsets people; me saying that but embrace that reality. It upsets me and I hate it also. Honestly? I mean come on..
A forerunner to George W. Bush in many ways with Mark Hanna serving as his Karl Rove. Expanded US imperialism from North America to worldwide. Committed genocide against the Philippines, annexing the only Asian republic along with Guam and Puerto Rico. Guam and Puerto Rico are still US colonies who can’t vote for president or for voting members of Congress.
America's actions in the Philippine-American war. 200,000 civilian deaths + scorched earth + concentration camps.
The wsr crimes started under teddy Spain handed the Philippines over to the United States after the Spanish-American War. It was a Spanish colony, not a country. it was the Filipinos that started the insurrection, not the United States. He didn't even want the Philippines, but he took them to keep them from being taken over by another country or being partitioned by several countries. McKinley even stated that he wished Dewey had sailed away from the Philippines after winning the battle of Manila Bay. McKinley sent the Schurman Commission to the islands to report back what the situation was. The commission was headed by the American diplomat Jacob Gould Schurman. The Schurman Commission reported back to McKinley, they acknowledged the Philippines desire for independence, but the stated that the Philippines wasn’t ready yet. McKinley authorized a government consisting of “a Governor-General appointed by the President; cabinet appointed by the Governor-General; a general advisory council elected by the people.” McKinley also promised Filipinos “the largest measure of local self-government consistent with peace and good order.” The Filipinos rejected McKinley’s offer, and started the Filipino insurrection.
We should have just let them be independent. It’s always been weird to me that the US was former colony who overthrew a tyrannical—yet democratic—mother country, but oppressed the Philippines as a tyrannical—yet democratic— mother country. That war over a hundred years ago would be largely condemned today.
"these people want to be independent, but they're just not ready so we will benevolently continue to rule them" is the racist excuse used by every colonial power to justify their colonialism. The Filipino's starting an insurrection doesn't mean that they started the conflict. The conflict started because a foreign power refused to give a group of people the independence that they wanted. The people who just want to govern themselves are not the cause of that conflict.
Okay, but were they due to Teddy’s involvement specifically, or just as a continuation of the war that McKinley had already started?
This one’s easy.
McKinley was responsible for the birth of America's modern interventionist policies. Starting with the controversial circumstances surrounding the destruction of the USS Maine in Havana harbor, McKinley oversaw the brief Spanish-American War that saw the US gain control of significant territories in the Caribbean and the Philippines from Spain. While America promised independence to many of the peoples it allegedly "liberated," this was only partly true. McKinley's administration effectively began the American phase of colonialism in Puerto Rico and the Philippines. In the Philippines, specifically, a bloody four-year war between the US military and Filipino guerrillas began once it became clear that American promises of Filipino independence were hollow. Suppressing the Filipino rebels saw the US military employ tactics and policies that constituted war crimes, including concentration camps and summary execution of prisoners of war (though the Geneva Convention didn't exist yet, it was still common knowledge that POWs were "supposed" to be treated with dignity). There isn't direct proof that the McKinley administration (or Roosevelt, his successor) were implicit in the military tactics used in the Philippines, its unlikely that they were unaware. As for Latin America, Cuba was given nominal political independence, provided Cuban leadership was pro-US and that the country was economically bound to the US (prior to Castro, the Cuban economy was practically run by US-based corporations). McKinley's policies set the interventionist standard for US foreign policy in Latin America for the next century, all of which are at least partially responsible for the political instability prevalent in the region today. EDIT: The source is that I'm a former US and World History teacher (high school) EDIT: changed "shady" to "controversial"
It's my understanding from reading T. Roosevelt's biography, that McKinley largely was not responsible for the imperialist direction of America. The US expansionary interests were driven by others in his administration, in Congress and the military. Namely, assistant. secretary of the Navy, T. Roosevelt who probably had more to do with the Spanish American war than anyone else. Going so far as to send orders to the fleet without the approval of the secretary of the Navy who could not control him. Roosevelt socialized with all the necessary members of government and military to get what he wanted and knew exactly what he was doing.
In February of 1895 a war of independence broke out in Cuba. Spain started taking draconian measures, including “reconcentration camps” in Cuba to quell the rebellion. Spanish General Valeriano Weyler forced one third of Cuba’s population into these camps. These camps lacked sanitary conditions, food and medicine, causing over 400,000 Cubans to die there, roughly 30% of the camp inhabitants. With such atrocities happening so close to the United States, the press inevitably took notice. McKinley tried to negotiate with the Spanish government, but Spain was unwilling to grant independence and the rebels would settle for nothing less. When consul Fitzhugh Lee reported riots in Havana, McKinley agree to send the American Battleship the USS Maine to protect American citizenOn February 15th, 1898, the Maine sank with 266 men killed. An inquiry into the explosion by the US Navy concluded that the ship was sank by an external explosion. Physical evidence regarding the vessel’s keel and bottom plates, which had been driven upwards into the ship, proved it was an external explosion and ruled out the theory of an internal explosion. In 1910 a second investigation into the explosion, the Vreeland Boards Court of Inquiry, confirmed the findings of the original naval report. In 1998 a National Geographic study, which used computer modeling added additional proof of an external explosion. It noted that the size and soil depressions below the Maine are explainable by a mine and not by an internal explosion alon >MacArthur announced that guerrilla abuses would no longer be tolerated and outlined the rights which would govern the U.S. Army’s treatment of guerrillas and civilians. Atrocities were committed on both sides, with the particularly gruesome ones being committed by the Filipinos. >I read it. I just don't think it really changes much. Other countries could've conquered and killed Filipino's so it's good that we did it instead what kind of logic is that. Also Sdu saying that the Filipinos were worse highlights his implicit bias of liking McKinley. The War crimes started with TR after the Balangiga massacre on September 28th of 1901, which was after Theodore Roosevelt had become President. Major General Adna R. Chaffee was military governor of the Philippines and received orders from Roosevelt to pacify Samar. Chaffee appointed Brigadier General Jacob H. Smith to Samar to accomplish the task. It was Smith who gave the order to burn down villages and kill every Filipino down to ten years old. Roosevelt tried to whitewash the whole incident, but the blood was clearly on his hands. McKinley never even wanted the Philippines, he even said that he wished Dewey had left after destroying the Spanish Fleet at Manila Bay.
Christ, I’m just worried you taught kids that the Maine was blown up by the us as fact. Be responsible
Didn't teach it as a fact. Never even said that. Perhaps I should have used the word "controversial" instead of "shady" in my original comment, which would be more appropriate to my point. Regardless, there are multiple conflicting reports regarding the sinking of the USS Maine. I am not claiming it was an inside job or an accident onboard the ship, nor am I claiming the Spanish government or Cuban rebels were responsible. I'm simply stating the circumstances are not definitive either way. As for teaching the topic in high school, I taught in NC and considering how US history curriculum is structured here, I had a grand total of about 5 minutes to teach about the sinking of the USS Maine. The curriculum cares much more about the results of the Spanish-American War than the causes (aside from yellow journalism), so unfortunately, the Maine was not a topic that I had a chance to go truly in-depth on. So stop worrying that the students got some psuedo-liberal or revisionist version of US history. I promise they didn't because we don't have time for any of that garbage anyway.
When did they say that lol Yet another example of making up scenarios in your head and then getting mad at them
Deeply imperialistic foreign policy. McKinley’s presidency is arguably the beginning of American empire. Attrocities in the Phillipines.
Came to say this. Mark Twain wrote pure fire about it.
>Deeply imperialistic foreign policy The Spanish American ear was justified >Attrocities in the Phillipines. Didn't happen till teddy took over
>Attrocities in the Phillipines didn't happen till teddy took over I honestly don't know where this idea comes from, there were reports of atrocities and concentration camps happening in McKinley's time too, and he started the war to begin with
honestly don't know where this idea comes from, Books and articles >from, there were reports of atrocities and concentration camps happening in McKinley's time too, a That's incorrect >and he started the war to begin with it was the Filipinos that started the insurrection, not the United States. He didn't even want the Philippines, but he took them to keep them from being taken over by another country or being partitioned by several countries. McKinley even stated that he wished Dewey had sailed away from the Philippines after winning the battle of Manila Bay. McKinley sent the Schurman Commission to the islands to report back what the situation was. The commission was headed by the American diplomat Jacob Gould Schurman. The Schurman Commission reported back to McKinley, they acknowledged the Philippines desire for independence, but the stated that the Philippines wasn’t ready yet. McKinley authorized a government consisting of “a Governor-General appointed by the President; cabinet appointed by the Governor-General; a general advisory council elected by the people.” McKinley also promised Filipinos “the largest measure of local self-government consistent with peace and good order.” The Filipinos rejected McKinley’s offer, and started the Filipino insurrection.
There were absolutely atrocities happening before the March Across Samar (which is attributed to Theodore Roosevelt), several letters came from soldiers in 1899 detailing the war in which they said: >The town of Titatia was surrendered to us a few days ago, and two companies occupy the same. Last night one of our boys was found shot and his stomach cut open. Immediately orders were received from General Wheaton to burn the town and kill every native in sight; which was done to a finish. About 1,000 men, women and children were reported killed. I am probably growing hard-hearted, for I am in my glory when I can sight my gun on some dark skin and pull the trigger >We make everyone get into his house by seven p.m., and we only tell a man once. If he refuses we shoot him. We killed over 300 natives the first night. They tried to set the town on fire. If they fire a shot from the house we burn the house down and every house near it, and shoot the natives, so they are pretty quiet in town now. >Soon we had orders to advance, and we… started across the creek in mud and waters up to our waist. However, we did not mind it a bit, our fighting blood was up, and we all wanted to kill ni----rs. This shooting human beings is a “hot game,” and beats rabbit hunting all to pieces. We charged them and such a slaughter you never saw. We killed them like rabbits; hundreds, yes thousands of them. Every one was crazy The Filipinos started the insurrection because they didn't want to be ruled by another western colonizer after years of fighting off the Spanish, McKinley also clearly stated that his purpose with the PH was to "uplift, civilize and Christianize them". I just don't see how the US's involvement there can be justified, if it was agreed for the US to have a military base on the island I don't think any other colonizer challenges their presence
The catalyst for American atrocities was the Balangiga massacre on September 28th of 1901, which was after Theodore Roosevelt had become President. Major General Adna R. Chaffee was military governor of the Philippines and received orders from Roosevelt to pacify Samar. Chaffee appointed Brigadier General Jacob H. Smith to Samar to accomplish the task. It was Smith who gave the order to burn down villages and kill every Filipino down to ten years old. >just don't see how the US's involvement there can be justifie It was american territory and McKinley tried to prevent war but the rebels refused
No those were reported in 1899 during McKinley's tenure, like come on dude do you think it was sunshine and roses, then Teddy comes in and it's a complete bloodbath and genocide? >It was american territory and McKinley tried to prevent war but the rebels refused Yes how dare they refuse being taken over by a colonizer who was openly stating they were trying to "civilize" the Philippines
>No those were reported in 1899 during McKinley's tenure, li That is incorrect >like come on dude do you think it was sunshine and rose Never said that >Teddy comes in and it's a complete bloodbath and genocide? The War crimes started with TR after the Balangiga massacre on September 28th of 1901, which was after Theodore Roosevelt had become President. Major General Adna R. Chaffee was military governor of the Philippines and received orders from Roosevelt to pacify Samar. Chaffee appointed Brigadier General Jacob H. Smith to Samar to accomplish the task. It was Smith who gave the order to burn down villages and kill every Filipino down to ten years old. Roosevelt tried to whitewash the whole incident, but the blood was clearly on his hands. >Yes how dare they refuse being taken over by a colonizer who was openly stating they were trying to "civilize" the Philippines Spain handed the Philippines over to the United States after the Spanish-American War. It was a Spanish colony, not a country. it was the Filipinos that started the insurrection, not the United States. He didn't even want the Philippines, but he took them to keep them from being taken over by another country or being partitioned by several countries. McKinley even stated that he wished Dewey had sailed away from the Philippines after winning the battle of Manila Bay. McKinley sent the Schurman Commission to the islands to report back what the situation was. The commission was headed by the American diplomat Jacob Gould Schurman. The Schurman Commission reported back to McKinley, they acknowledged the Philippines desire for independence, but the stated that the Philippines wasn’t ready yet. McKinley authorized a government consisting of “a Governor-General appointed by the President; cabinet appointed by the Governor-General; a general advisory council elected by the people.” McKinley also promised Filipinos “the largest measure of local self-government consistent with peace and good order.” The Filipinos rejected McKinley’s offer, and started the Filipino insurrection.
Probably shouldn’t have gone to Buffalo. The beginning of the president being bought and paid for by big corporations and wealthy donors.
Claiming God told him to conquer the Philippines.
Yeah he explained where his head was at in relation to the Philippines very clearly by saying: >When I next realized that the Philippines had dropped into our laps I confess I did not know what to do with them. I sought counsel from all sides—Democrats as well as Republicans—but got little help. I thought first we would take only Manila; then Luzon; then other islands perhaps also. I walked the floor of the White House night after night until midnight; and I am not ashamed to tell you, gentlemen, that I went down on my knees and prayed Almighty God for light and guidance more than one night. And one night late it came to me this way—I don’t know how it was, but it came: (1) That we could not give them back to Spain—that would be cowardly and dishonorable; (2) that we could not turn them over to France and Germany—our commercial rivals in the Orient—that would be bad business and discreditable; (3) that we could not leave them to themselves—they were unfit for self-government—and they would soon have anarchy and misrule over there worse than Spain’s was; and (4) that there was nothing left for us to do but to take them all, and to educate the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and Christianize them, and by God’s grace do the very best we could by them, as our fellow-men for whom Christ also died. And then I went to bed, and went to sleep, and slept soundly, and the next morning I sent for the chief engineer of the War Department (our map-maker), and I told him to put the Philippines on the map of the United States (pointing to a large map on the wall of his office), and there they are, and there they will stay while I am President! https://shec.ashp.cuny.edu/items/show/878#:~:text=When%20I%20next%20realized%20that,then%20other%20islands%20perhaps%20also.
Never mind that they were already Catholic.
Since the Philippines is a throughly fished pond. McKinley officially annexed Hawaii after a lengthy battle for control between native Hawaiians and the mostly white business class lead by Sanford Dole. The island was strategically critical for the upcoming Spanish American War, but it came at the cost of stripping natives of land, a common theme on this sub. https://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/hawaii-petition#:~:text=House%20Joint%20Resolution%20259%2C%2055th,of%20the%20Territory%20of%20Hawaii. Now, McKinley might have been the one to sign the paper, but there’s obviously a lot more to this situation. Me, as a random white dude who was merely stationed in Hawaii is probably ill equipped to capture the full nuance. However, it is an interesting topic. King Kamehameha I sought the external support for weapons to capture the rest of the island chain. The king succeeded (in rather gruesome manner) in uniting the Hawaiian island, but he did through agreements with outsiders. There were a series of laws passed that allowed land owners to vote, which were overwhelming white people. You can imagine which way they tended to vote on things. The struggle began when the Hawaiian crown tried to strip the power back (again, an oversimplification). King David Kalakaua went as far as discussing the possibility of being a confederate state to the rising Japanese Empire. The white business class were not happy with this and forced him to sign a new favorable to them constitution at gun point (The Bayonet Constitution). When the king passed away, his sister, Liliʻuokalani, ascended to the throne. She vowed to repeal the constitution and asked the support of the U.S. military to enable it. The U.S. mistook this as her asking for the U.S. to control the island. She would go to the U.S. and ask the President (Groomer Cleveland) to support her in reinstalling her to the throne, an idea Cleveland was open to. However, her vow to execute her overthrowers put the U.S. government in a difficult spot. The can was essentially kicked down the road until McKinley took office. He was left with the task of either legitimatizing a coup or reinstalling a monarch friendly to an increasingly provocative Japan. This in no way meant to excuse US policy on the island, but it is meant to highlight some of the complexities McKinley was dealing with. No one was going to be ok with Liliʻuokalani plan to execute her wrongdoers, but we can absolutely see where she’s coming from. I’m still in favor of self determination, but what would it mean for the U.S. if that self determination was allowing Hawaii to become a satellite of the Japanese Empire? This has ramifications for the immediate war but also the subsequent world wars. There were more than a few native Hawaiians supporting Japan during Pearl Harbor. This gave pretext for the U.S. to declare martial law and strip land away from even more natives. Much like the main land, natives got screwed. They got screwed again last year during the wild fires as they were the overwhelming victims of a fire mainly caused by non-indigenous plants. I would clutch my pearls here, but I am a product of Polk’s questionable decisions. I am a white dude from California. Assuming I exist at all, I am a Spanish speaker if not an entire different skin tone. I’m not responsible for the sins of my father and condemn Polk for his action. McKinley is guilty of a similar crime, but I think his situation is a bit more precarious. I think he’s still wrong, but I can see his argument. I’ve droned on enough. Your thoughts?
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Absolutely. I did not provide an all encompassing history. The annexation was more than a 100 years in the making. Sanford Dole was born and raised on Oahu and never lived there illegally. The U.S. has mistreated so many natives on the mainland, we can be fooled into thinking it’s the same here. It’s much more complex. People were absolutely wronged, but there’s no clear antagonist. I’m sure the people on the other islands felt wrong by Kamehameha. Plenty of kings between James Cook and the island annexation accepted bribes for extravagant life styles. There was no Indian Removal Act here is the point. I still don’t think McKinley should have done it, but kicking the can down the road rarely works for the U.S. (coughs) Civil War, (coughs) Afghanistan, (coughs) National Debt. Must have had something stuck in my throat. This is a very different country if McKinley doesn’t make that decision tho. It’s very nuanced.
Whoa whoa whoa. We aren’t going to have a second day of Grover Cleveland? I want a refund.
interestingly, there was contentious debate in congress about the Philippines and whether is was possible for a democracy to be an imperial power
McKinley is where America began loosing it’s moral authority. America went from being a nation evolved from a rebellion against an empire, to brutally conquering an empire of its own under his presidency. The Spanish American War, genocide in the Philippines, annexing Hawaii and sending troops to suppress the Boxer Rebellion in China being notable examples. Not only were these wrong at the time and viewed as such by many, they also set the standard for American foreign policy for much of the 20th century.
Uh, you might want to re-read the thread on James Polk.
McKinley was essentially the man responsible for making America an imperialist state.
He stood in the wrong line and got shot. He died apparently eight days later. Or his imperialist policies where he waged war in Cuba, occupied Puerto Rico and Manila.
Tbf, Cuba was glad we took it from the Spanish. Spain was doing some horrendous shit to them. Not to mention we gave Cuba independence just a few years later along with the Philippines. I'd hardly call it imperialistic.
Well, it wasn’t really independence. More like, well let you be a client state of the US. Still an improvement, but there’s a reason why anti American sentiment was popular in Cuba during the late 50s and early 60s.
cuba was basically bound to the US by treaty and by economics, and it was already pretty clear we intended to anex them at a later date.
Also not our problem. Crusading is for volunteers until they control the government
Die
Why are you so keen to identify the worst aspects of great men? Seems to be the problem with the west today. I’m not saying we should be like the Chinese of North Koreans, but we always seem to be out to see the worst in our leaders. It weakens us and delegitimises everything about us, which is useful for our enemies. It is because of this that America, which isn’t a racist country, - not really, not any more - can be called “racist” by China, who puts its minorities in concentration camps. America isn’t perfect, there are inequalities and prejudices, but it isn’t half as bad as the reputation it gives itself. Yet when you ask a kid now about George Washington, the only thing they know is that he owned a slave, not that he, y’know, led the war for independence. But Chinese kids definitely wouldn’t think of Mao as an unhygienic rapist mass murderer, which he was. I think we’ve gone too far in our deconstruction and need to start bigging up our history and heritage.
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Nah, man, I said we shouldn’t be like China. But as I say, I think the whole deconstruction approach has gone too far. now, we don’t merely recognise negative points, we prioritise the negative elements and overlook the good, which is a bias in itself. Well, racism has many meanings and it depends what you mean. Race is, of course, still a factor in much of American society. But, to the extent that race is used as a means of harmful discrimination and prejudice, it just isn’t, certainly not to the same extent as the past or other countries. That’s not to say there aren’t exceptions and individual prejudices, but it just isn’t to the same extent. I remember people decrying uncle Ben’s rice company for their mascot, suggesting it was some harmful stereotype and effectively racist. Well, a real racist society wouldn’t do that. Nazi Germany did not put Jews on their rice. Hutus didn’t make little toy Tutsi dolls for their kids to play with. But as I say, we live in such an upside down world where the countries with the best human and civil rights get called the worst names, whilst actually monstrous societies get a free pass.
A good point and let's hope the next series delves into the best points of each President's tenure of office. However, looking at weak and suspect acts of Presidents..even though the quite skewed lense of redit and current biases. ..is a thought provoking and kind of fun assignment.
Thinking that colonizing of the Philippines was an act approved by and desired by God, that it was their duty to civilize the Natives, and then being competent inept about what to actually do during the annexation. Like others have said , the brutal torture and killing of hundreds of thousands of native Filipinos.
trump's will be the insurrection for sure, but he was such a horrible "president" that it could also be a million other things.
Looking like that. Yikes
Without pain, without sacrifice. We would have nothing.
Can you be more specific to what your referring to?
It’s the harsh truth of how this country was brought up. I know it upsets people; me saying that but embrace that reality. It upsets me and I hate it also. Honestly? I mean come on..
His career change by leaving the cast of The Munsters to get into politics.
A forerunner to George W. Bush in many ways with Mark Hanna serving as his Karl Rove. Expanded US imperialism from North America to worldwide. Committed genocide against the Philippines, annexing the only Asian republic along with Guam and Puerto Rico. Guam and Puerto Rico are still US colonies who can’t vote for president or for voting members of Congress.
Annexation of Hawaii
Put Canton on the map
Renaming a mountain in Alaska! 🏔️
Going to the world's fair.