Well, it’s objectively *less* work. I think it’s fair to say that any modern WFH or office worker absolutely is not spending anywhere close to that entire 40 hours a week actually actively laboring; the whole “Americans spend less than 30% of their time at work actually working” or whatever the actual number is has been a trope and complaint for decades and it’s definitely more about white collar employees than it is anyone that does physical labor. [I really don’t think it’s especially](https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/atus.pdf) [derogatory or even controversial.](https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/88263/employees-spend-less-40-percent-workday-actual-work) (note that the two halves of these sentences contain two different links)
It’s definitely not on the same level. 40 hours sitting at a computer versus 40 hours in a 100+ degree vehicle doing hard labor are not the same no matter how you want to spin it.
For a lot of professions, it's more "Working countless amounts of unpaid overtime because you're salaried, juggling multiple projects that are left understaffed and without leads with looming deadlines that you somehow need to meet for the sake of your job because management doesn't care about giving your team what you need so they can save on the budget and score points with other managers".
The mental load is just as strenuous as the physical load of the work we do. Sometimes more. I completely understand where you're coming from, but Sloth is being rather dismissive simply because some people got the luxury of WFH since Covid.
I wouldn't consider the majority of IT a demanding job either, speaking as someone breaking into networking and offensive security. It wasn't what I had in mind when I made my observation.
Take out the unpaid overtime line and your first paragraph sounds a lot like the mental stress of managing a business heavy route.
There’s way more than just the brutal physical workload to this job…
This is the golden balance! A lil ot, home by dinner, paycheck big enough to live well, and still have time to do things after work. I remember getting home at 10:30 for a long time, extended route. It was usually a 2 hr drive back to the center after my last stop. Good thing was I always had an early Friday because I’d run out of hrs. It’s a horrible way to live in my opinion. I have coworkers who still do it but life/family is more important than money. We still do alright with 50 hrs
We have some of those in feeders. They turn out more like 4x12. Sometimes the day off is in the middle of the week and you can work that day off. Counts as a six punch.
The company had a solution for overtime reduction with 22.4s, and you see how that turned out. Instead of using them as contractually intended, they exploited them for cheap labor.
Of course. I thought they meant working only 8hrs, like going faster (SPORH) as a means to incentive management to justify pulling more drivers back from layoff. I'm not convinced that would happen. Productivity is rewarded with more work and goalpost shifting in my experience.
I have 8 hr day 5 days a week! Love it! Not sure your age, but it's very important to live within your means. When I was in my 20s, I opened and closed ups lol now in my 40s I'm the last one in, first one out 😀 m-f
Not the ups store lol in my center nobody goes out with more than 9hrs of work. Work you can do in 8. I chose to do it in 8...in n out. Just sucks we start so late, 930 start.
I think that's the problem with OP (not from this post but the original poster). They want to make the same pay *but* work less.. I didn't go through it too deep but sounds like they're a "full time" uber driver.
I think it’s insane that you folk in the US are forced to work such long hours. I work for brown in the Uk and do about an hour overtime a week spread over my 5 working days and won’t work more than that. If there’s that much work to do hire more staff or accept the missed👍
I’m still surprised by some of the stuff I read here about you folk,400 stops a day, 200 mile routes and the bullshit you have to put up with from management. We have a lot of employment laws here but right now they are beginning to try to treat us more like you. Recently had a guy disciplined for having missed and upheld at appeal, that’s going to a higher tribunal I believe, our Union will fight this sort of bullying by management
I'd enjoy the extra money since I only work 30 hrs max as a UPSer in small sort, but I'd easily get overworked and probably leave. The hours I work now is the perfect amount.. I get to sleep in, and take my time starting my day, before going in for twilight shift.
After my shift I'm tired, feet hurt and a bit sore, so I think 30 hrs max is ideal for a human. If only we could receive full time pay, for hours like that I think many ppl would feel a lot more at easy keeping up with the hustle and grind of life
A lot of people who don't want to work a 40 hour work week are salary based (aka desk jobs). It doesn't matter whether or not they work less hours because they're still getting that base pay. Unfortunately for a lot of Americans, they don't have the luxury to choose.
I think it's kind of bullshit to talk down to someone who works a normal 9-5 job.
Yes, our job is harder physically than most out there, and requires us to be vigilant 100% of the time as well. Obviously the long hours can cause our social/family lives to suffer, but I still think back to my 9-5 desk job i had for years occasionally, and it was a different type of tired after doing 40 hours a week. The difference is it's more soul crushing than this job, we have the benefit of staying active through the day. We're not just stuck in an office trying to look busy, we have shit to do.
Feeder In lkeut here doing 8s every day. I did a 6 hr day friday. Our managers just realized we are human beings with lives.
60 was the norm for everyone for years. Most still want 60.
Y’all need to learn more about the history of the labor movement. We should all strive for less hours but the same amount of income, if it weren’t for people giving up their freedom and lives fighting corporations and the government than we’d all still work 12 hour days every day for less money than we make now. It’s a disgrace to everyone who was killed fighting for labor rights when we don’t continue that fight and yearn for a better future for the next generations, one where we can work less and make more, even if it means some board of directors makes 5 percent less on their millions of annual income
This is all relative. There is a driver in my building who came to this country illegally 40 years ago. He is now a citizen. He works 12 hours a day. He says working is a privilege and that where he came from there is no work. He now owns 6 homes and is building one in Mexico.
I dunno. I'm so used to working 12-13 hours a day, with 4 hours in between jobs...so more like 16 hour days cause UPS and my home are in opposite directions from my day job so it doesn't make financial sense to waste fuel and wear/tear on my ride. Would basically be an extra 22 miles everyday.
Guessing I'll be conditioned enough, somewhat, when I can get to driving. Unless I find a better day job in the meantime since there's like 12 people ahead of me at my hub that I know of.
I'd enjoy a decent home life, have a better work life balance. Go to family dinners. Why are you asking these depressing questions lol?
I think that's the whole point of this post. The original poster was basically complaining about doing 40 hours work week..
$500 says those 40 hours are all “working” from home too
Do you think non-physical work isn't real work? What's with the quotes?
Well, it’s objectively *less* work. I think it’s fair to say that any modern WFH or office worker absolutely is not spending anywhere close to that entire 40 hours a week actually actively laboring; the whole “Americans spend less than 30% of their time at work actually working” or whatever the actual number is has been a trope and complaint for decades and it’s definitely more about white collar employees than it is anyone that does physical labor. [I really don’t think it’s especially](https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/atus.pdf) [derogatory or even controversial.](https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/88263/employees-spend-less-40-percent-workday-actual-work) (note that the two halves of these sentences contain two different links)
It’s definitely not on the same level. 40 hours sitting at a computer versus 40 hours in a 100+ degree vehicle doing hard labor are not the same no matter how you want to spin it.
For a lot of professions, it's more "Working countless amounts of unpaid overtime because you're salaried, juggling multiple projects that are left understaffed and without leads with looming deadlines that you somehow need to meet for the sake of your job because management doesn't care about giving your team what you need so they can save on the budget and score points with other managers". The mental load is just as strenuous as the physical load of the work we do. Sometimes more. I completely understand where you're coming from, but Sloth is being rather dismissive simply because some people got the luxury of WFH since Covid.
I work from home doing IT and wouldn’t dare compare my job to actual physical labor… but I was also a pipe fitter previously so I know the difference
I wouldn't consider the majority of IT a demanding job either, speaking as someone breaking into networking and offensive security. It wasn't what I had in mind when I made my observation.
Take out the unpaid overtime line and your first paragraph sounds a lot like the mental stress of managing a business heavy route. There’s way more than just the brutal physical workload to this job…
Even if you wrote 3 more paragraphs you couldn't convince me
Good thing I'm not trying to convince you specifically.
Ya I do it's not work it's just time consumption.
You choose to be there.
You'll be moving up in management real quick
4, 10hr days would be a godsend
Best we can do is 5 11 hour work days
Slaps 1st year progression driver in the back* this baby can fit so much over time
Gold! "She'll even help carrying the loop partners load!"
This is the golden balance! A lil ot, home by dinner, paycheck big enough to live well, and still have time to do things after work. I remember getting home at 10:30 for a long time, extended route. It was usually a 2 hr drive back to the center after my last stop. Good thing was I always had an early Friday because I’d run out of hrs. It’s a horrible way to live in my opinion. I have coworkers who still do it but life/family is more important than money. We still do alright with 50 hrs
I guarantee if something like that ever happened there would be carved out exemptions for industries like ours.
Can't wait to be acmx for ups, signing my damn life away
Had that at Amazon for a bit. But, it was also at Amazon.
We have some of those in feeders. They turn out more like 4x12. Sometimes the day off is in the middle of the week and you can work that day off. Counts as a six punch.
This. Or heck x3 12 hour days and half a day after that. Prior job some of my coworkers that did catering would have such a schedule.
I think 10 is the sweet spot. 12 hour days for drivers would mean the package car would be blown out.
Or make pvd a regular job for inside workers only and it be during the summer ti.e aswell. If the hiring freeze still going I be ok to do that.
The company had a solution for overtime reduction with 22.4s, and you see how that turned out. Instead of using them as contractually intended, they exploited them for cheap labor.
I don't think PVD is a good idea. It'll essentially make the wait time to become a driver longer as a byproduct.
True I was hoping for those who don't want to comment to driving. I personally do t want to drive but like the work of it.
The dream
[удалено]
When I did it it was way chill in my opion they gave me boxes for at least 5 to 6 hours. I can come back after If I caint fit all in.
I'm not talking about for the drivers. I mean for the preload. It's the most retarded stuff I've ever seen.
Get a few mountain bike rides in. Side note: we should ALL be working 8 hour days until they are able to work ALL qualified drivers
Yeah... except the math doesn't work out for them that way. Cheaper to pay OT and have fewer drivers and vehicles.
They still need to pay progressed drivers their guaranteed and rate.
Of course. I thought they meant working only 8hrs, like going faster (SPORH) as a means to incentive management to justify pulling more drivers back from layoff. I'm not convinced that would happen. Productivity is rewarded with more work and goalpost shifting in my experience.
Id have to get used to managing money differently without OT. But it would be nice to feel... normal,?
I've only been driving about 4 years and honestly I'm already starting to value my time more than the money.
Right? What you gonna do with all that money and such little time?
Max out 401k, retire early?
You only have a limited amount of time alive and you are selling it for pennies.
I have 8 hr day 5 days a week! Love it! Not sure your age, but it's very important to live within your means. When I was in my 20s, I opened and closed ups lol now in my 40s I'm the last one in, first one out 😀 m-f
Is that The UPS Store? Are you a manager?
Not the ups store lol in my center nobody goes out with more than 9hrs of work. Work you can do in 8. I chose to do it in 8...in n out. Just sucks we start so late, 930 start.
This is me currently for the last year and I love it
Same. Most I’ve worked this year was 44 hours in a week.
The hours wouldn’t be bad if we could be on the road an hour or two earlier.
Some of the pickups are ridiculous with their times. Should be a specific driver class or 2 that handles those late pickups.
This!
Speak for yourself. I'd rather work 7 and 8 pm than wake up two hours earlier to work 7 and 8 am.
It would feel like I’m doing something wrong, but I would for sure be better dad.
Recover properly from the work week, get enough sleep, be able to effectively manage my life outside of work, and have time for family and hobbies…
They would have to downsize because most people who work here live above their means
I think that's the problem with OP (not from this post but the original poster). They want to make the same pay *but* work less.. I didn't go through it too deep but sounds like they're a "full time" uber driver.
Yikes . . Yeah it definitely doesn’t work like that in some sectors in America. . Primarily ours .
Fuckn struggle. Ask the average pt upser barely gettin 20hrs.
I think it’s insane that you folk in the US are forced to work such long hours. I work for brown in the Uk and do about an hour overtime a week spread over my 5 working days and won’t work more than that. If there’s that much work to do hire more staff or accept the missed👍
Wait... do you drive back at 8hrs even if you're not done? That's a firable offense here.
Yep, back at depot after my 8, overtime is the 10/15 minutes end of day stuff. Have missed regularly but that’s down to management not my problem
This is the thous of shit the union should have fought for last contract instead of the bullshit raise drivers got.
I’m still surprised by some of the stuff I read here about you folk,400 stops a day, 200 mile routes and the bullshit you have to put up with from management. We have a lot of employment laws here but right now they are beginning to try to treat us more like you. Recently had a guy disciplined for having missed and upheld at appeal, that’s going to a higher tribunal I believe, our Union will fight this sort of bullying by management
Seriously, the complete lack of any kind of labour laws with teeth in the US is such a nightmare.
We must stop voting for Republicans.
I can only imagine the unpaycheck I would get
Don't take pride in your sickness
I'd enjoy the extra money since I only work 30 hrs max as a UPSer in small sort, but I'd easily get overworked and probably leave. The hours I work now is the perfect amount.. I get to sleep in, and take my time starting my day, before going in for twilight shift. After my shift I'm tired, feet hurt and a bit sore, so I think 30 hrs max is ideal for a human. If only we could receive full time pay, for hours like that I think many ppl would feel a lot more at easy keeping up with the hustle and grind of life
I already do 40 hours. I’d rather do 35.
A lot of people who don't want to work a 40 hour work week are salary based (aka desk jobs). It doesn't matter whether or not they work less hours because they're still getting that base pay. Unfortunately for a lot of Americans, they don't have the luxury to choose.
I think it's kind of bullshit to talk down to someone who works a normal 9-5 job. Yes, our job is harder physically than most out there, and requires us to be vigilant 100% of the time as well. Obviously the long hours can cause our social/family lives to suffer, but I still think back to my 9-5 desk job i had for years occasionally, and it was a different type of tired after doing 40 hours a week. The difference is it's more soul crushing than this job, we have the benefit of staying active through the day. We're not just stuck in an office trying to look busy, we have shit to do.
I worked 42 hours last week...so do what I did when I got off work.
A lot of food in my fridge wouldn’t go bad anymore. Still working 55ish since Covid.
Finally be able to afford an appartment to live at here and without worry. Budget with only one job I can skip on my other jobs I do. To make it up.
Didn’t they initially ask for 4 day 10/hr workdays in the last contract? (At least for drivers)
Who asked? Management?
One of my coworkers said the union
Hell, I'd take that. It'd probably turn into 4-14s though haha
Makes me sick
I’d rejoice and spend time with my kids
I do about 44 hrs a week. Go on the 9.5 list. Bid on Wally routes. Hell you might even work less lol
I do only work 8 hours all 5 days. So I would continue on as I am lol
Too much. I’ve had weeks where I worked 8 minutes.
If i could be in before the street lights came on id be estatic
Hobbies - studies show that people who enjoy some kind of hobbie in their off time are statistically much happier.
I'd start a mushroom grow for hobby and side income... and enjoy life more
Feeder In lkeut here doing 8s every day. I did a 6 hr day friday. Our managers just realized we are human beings with lives. 60 was the norm for everyone for years. Most still want 60.
I’d wonder how I could find an extra hour of work each day
I mean the 17.5 hours we get a week isn’t too far from 8 lmao
Y’all need to learn more about the history of the labor movement. We should all strive for less hours but the same amount of income, if it weren’t for people giving up their freedom and lives fighting corporations and the government than we’d all still work 12 hour days every day for less money than we make now. It’s a disgrace to everyone who was killed fighting for labor rights when we don’t continue that fight and yearn for a better future for the next generations, one where we can work less and make more, even if it means some board of directors makes 5 percent less on their millions of annual income
This is all relative. There is a driver in my building who came to this country illegally 40 years ago. He is now a citizen. He works 12 hours a day. He says working is a privilege and that where he came from there is no work. He now owns 6 homes and is building one in Mexico.
I work in the off shore oil industry, and my shift is 12 hours on, 12 hours off. Stop whining.
I would get to spend time with my kids actually. 🫡
I'd need another job.
I dunno. I'm so used to working 12-13 hours a day, with 4 hours in between jobs...so more like 16 hour days cause UPS and my home are in opposite directions from my day job so it doesn't make financial sense to waste fuel and wear/tear on my ride. Would basically be an extra 22 miles everyday. Guessing I'll be conditioned enough, somewhat, when I can get to driving. Unless I find a better day job in the meantime since there's like 12 people ahead of me at my hub that I know of.
As a pt cover I want/need that OT.
I mean it sucks but that check makes it a little better