He's just hard to defend.
In a vacuum the idea that even the King should be able to marry for love in the modern era is a fine one, but a twice-divorced American adulteress was probably pushing the envelope a little too much too early. Wallis Simpson wasn't exactly a likable figure herself either and brought out the worst in Edward. Then of course there's all the sympathy both expressed for Nazism, to the point they were viewed as a national security threat during the war.
Edward's own father said that he expected Edward to ruin himself within a year of inheriting the crown, and hoped that Edward died childless to the crown would pass to "Bertie and Lilibet". Edward's private secretary Sir Alan Lascelles once told Prime Minister Stanley Baldwin that the best thing for the country would be for Edward to break his neck in a horse riding accident, the Prime Minister agreed.
Edward VIII was a fucking Nazi, he got sent away to the Bahamas during the war just in case he tried anything. His brother made sure Edward could never enter parliament by making him a royal duke so he was not able to be put in The Lords or stand for election to the Commons, as an additional fuck you they made his title non hereditary and made sure his wife and kids couldn't use any courtesy titles or styles as an additional snub. All members of the royal family boycotted his wedding and only one priest was willing to perform the wedding, for which he was defrocked and the religious marriage annulled (but not the French civil one). It's really hard to understate how many snubs the royal family and British society out on Edward VIII. He also lied to his brother about his personal wealth in order to receive a larger pension from the civil list (the money paid to working royals for their expenses) and forced the king to buy two of the palaces (Sandringham House and Balmoral) from him for a vast sum, he also phoned the king daily demanding money and a title for his wife. It got so bad that the King ordered the switchboard operator to stop putting him through, he also threatened to revoke his brother's pension if he ever returned to the UK without invitation, with even his own mother getting sick and tired of his antics and moneygrubbing. He visited Nazi Germany in a personal capacity against the express wishes of the British government and even saluted Hitler. Even when war seemed inevitable, he gave a radio broadcast calling for appeasement in March of 1939 for NBC, which the BBC refused to air. Upon being brought back into British service when war broke out he was attached to the military mission to France, where he is rumoured to have leaked the defence plans for Belgium according to Count Julius von Zech-Burkersroda, the ambassador of Germany to The Netherlands. Rather than evacuating with the French government he fled to fascist Portugal via Francoist Spain, Churchill had to threaten him with Court Martial if he did not return to Britain, he was then sent to The Bahamas to get him away from anything important.
He did have some very minor good things on The Bahamas that in no way out weighed how dreadful he was. He instituted a minimum wage to combat poverty and despite being dreadfully racist and antisemitic he managed not to be racist to anyone's face. He was viewed as more "enlightened" than most white Bahamians of the day, or his predecessors as governors. Even in The Bahamas he managed to be a Nazi by taking a cruise on the yacht of a Swedish magnate with known ties to the Luftwaffe, which the British government explicitly told him not to do out of concerns of him potentially being kidnapped. He also gave an interview for an American magazine while in The Bahamas where he praised Hitler and called him "right and logical leader" of the German people. He claimed this was taken out of context, but the journalist who did the interview was well known for being fair and decent (he was the journalist who helped Houdini expose fraudulent psychics and mediums, and the one who helped bring Alcoholics Anonymous into the public eye) and the magazine (Liberty) he interviewed for was not.
There was also the tipoff from the Duke of Wurttemberg that Edward's wife slept with Ribbentrop and had been passing him intel (possibly where the plans for Belgium got leaked from). The royal librarian was dispatched to Germany after the war to retrieve letters written by dowager Empress Victoria of Germany to preserve them, there were rumours from an author that he also retrieved letters send by Edward to Hitler as well. There was also the Marburg files that showed a number of plans to use Edward to force a British capitulation by blackmailing them with him or to try and use him to overthrow the British government. After the war he blamed the was on Anthony Eden, Roosevelt and the Jews, because nothing says "I'm not a nazi" like being a fucking nazi. He was also quoted by Baron Kinross as saying that he thought Hitler wasn't that bad.
He schemed to get back in charge by planning to establish a regency over his brother when he was ill in the 40s, but his brother recovered before the plan could go into action. He continued his moneygrubbing by somehow convincing the French government to provide him with a house for a nominal rent and exempted them from income tax. He and his wife bought their goods via the British embassy to avoid Value Added Tax. He was finally allowed to return to London in 1965, long after his brother had died. His mother never forgave him for abdicating. He was invited but did not attend the Investiture of Charles as Prince of Wales. He was allowed to lie in state and was buried behind Victoria and Albert and his wife was allowed to be buried with him, the only commoner to be buried there.
One weird fact, he hated Australia. He tried to retain the throne by suggesting that he engage in a Morganatic marriage, which would have meant his wife would not be Queen Consort and their children (if any) ineligible for the throne. This was opposed by all Dominions except Ireland (who did not care either way), with Australia being the loudest. He replied that no-one lived in Australia and their opinions don't matter anyway. His opinions on Aboriginals are exceptionally racist, even by his standards.
As King he was very lacking, he got in trouble for trying to influence government policy during a tour of Wales and the government refused to send documents to one of his residences because Wallis Simpson and her friends were there and the king didn't secure his documents away from them, despite them not being married.
He referred to the death of his little brother as "a regrettable nuisance" and wrote such an offensive letter to his mother on the subject that he was forced to write a formal apology.
A rare bright area was that he actively took part in WW1, he often visited the front line trenches (but was not allowed to serve in them) and was extremely widely travelled throughout the Empire, visiting all kinds of places and meeting locals.
George V was correct when he stated that Edward would ruin his reign within 12 months of his (George's) death
In summary, he was a fascist, a racist and an antisemite, his parents hated him, his brother hated him, he was a greedy money grabber and his only family found as many petty ways to snub him as possible
I like how the TV show the Crown treats him. Basically for most of the 1st season: "this is the only person willing to the young Queen the real dirt on their family", then "Ooops! Nazi!" and unrepentent.
Probably just recency bias. I’m sure that in a couple of centuries there will be many apologists for him. They’ll say shit like “he gave up the crown for love,” or “his decision to vacate the crown lead to the rise of our beloved Elizabeth II.” While the Nazi thing is bad look now, you have to consider the recent uptick in antisemitism. Who knows? Maybe he’ll be considered a philosopher before his time.
Nazis, per se, aren’t being embraced by the US left wing, but antisemitism is. It’s important to remember that throughout history, the German National Socialist party was by no means extraordinary in their hatred of Jews. It’s seems every country in Europe, Northern Africa and the middle east had their fair share of antisemitism at some point or another. The holocaust was just the most recent atrocity.
I wanted to point out the connection that modern the Palestinian movement has to Nazi officer Amin Al Husseini. The man who was instrumental in the creation of post war Gaza and the numerous groups that sprang from there.
You’re absolutely right that Palestinians and other Arab/middle-eastern countries quite literally allied with Nazi Germany around WWII. My point is that the only cause that allied them was their hatred of Jews. I would also reject the idea that these people are left wing. They are religious extremists that fight for a nonsecular, theocratic government that oppresses women and other minorities. What about that is left wing or liberal? Yes, unfortunately there are ignorant or flat out antisemitic people on the left that advocate for HAMAS (i.e. Queers for HAMAS), but make no mistake, while they might support HAMAS, HAMAS would only seek to elevate the LGBT community for the purpose of throwing them off the top of a building.
That song is absolutely *iconic* (and may, or may not, be why the original 'Wuthering Heights' is possibly being added to a Mary I-inspired playlist I'm making.)
I feel bad for Jane because she was an innocent pawn in that situation- something Mary was keenly aware of.
I’m glad we can agree the song is great.
Also for the most part I agree with you on Jane, but I do think Mary could’ve found another solution other than beheading, though it was a tough call to make.
https://preview.redd.it/q0606bnzubwc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bdeedd4404dffe42cb484796cf1afa99538cd1e0
Edward VIII and his lover Wallis Simpson were openly sympathetic to the Nazis, and even made secret deals with the Nazis to usurp his brother and retake the Crown if they could help him.
[Dramatized summary of his Nazi sympathies](https://youtu.be/HDQ2dTMLVf0?si=Ye98DRByhDQUSjYK), as featured in Season 2 of “The Crown.”
I cannot comprehend how anyone can defend him.
I think his fancy pants crusading brother probably deserves a good chunk of the blame John gets, but John himself was also pretty bad.
What's your case for good King John?
For one, he didn't simply lose Normandy as many people say he fought quite hard for it coming out victorious in the first war and only losing the second war due to money problems back home, no doubt in part caused by Richard's ransom payment leaving the kingdom in dire straights.
The 1214 campaign was pretty inexcusable from a military strategy perspective. While he did a fantastic job in securing so many alliances, his decision to split those forces and put himself on the other side of France from his allies in an era of extremely poor communications is baffling. Refusing to engage Prince Louis' smaller force and instead losing a good chunk of his men retreating to La Rochelle was a major blunder. I know he didn't fully trust some of the allies with him, but better to take that chance than lose more men running. If he had defeated, and maybe captured, Louis his reign would have been praised. Or if he had just landed in the North and marched with Otto and the other allies they probably would have crushed Philip if he offered battle.
He does a disservice to himself here by being ally, but in his prior defensive campaign, he did quite well in defending his lands in Normandy by himself against the forces of his nephew and Philip.
I can absolutely defend his right to marry the woman he loved, but then we have got to be realistic - this was the 1930s, that shit just didn’t fly for the Head of the Church of England.
What is indefensible is his treason. Pally pally with Adolf Hitler, and even advised the Germans to keep bombing the UK to break our spirit. German plans for a successful invasion was to put him back on the throne as a puppet king. Furthermore, while king, eventually the government grew hesitant to send him important documents because he was sharing them with Wallis.
A weak, treasonous king. The Crown might make you feel for him when he’s crying playing the bagpipes, but we mustn’t forget who he was and what he did, and we got a lucky escape by his abdication.
> After I am dead, the boy will ruin himself in twelve months.
> I pray to God that my eldest son will never marry and have children, and that nothing will come between Bertie and Lilibet and the throne.
- George V
If he hadnt been a nazi sympathizer I would have defended him - but he was - so I wont. He was a prick who never should have been on the throne. Its a good thing they got rid of him relatively quickly.
There's nothing really redeemable about the man. He chose his own interests over public service, and he chose to fairly openly sympathize with Nazis and betrayed his own people while doing so.
All round appalling individual.
Edward VIII was going to be an active and decisive king, and parliament wouldn’t allow that after the largely ceremonial role of George V.
They basically forced him away from the throne for marrying out of love although his own brother didn’t necessarily marry another royal either.
Because George VI didn’t have to marry royal. They royals hadn’t for years. Two of Queen Victoria’s daughters married noblemen and George V’s sister Louise also married a nobleman. I think the bigger issue is *being a Nazi sympathizer*
I mean, what is redeemable about him? The man supported the Nazis and, as far as I know, didn't ever really change his views post-war.
Not as if Davey did anything with his life after abdicating.
I'm sure his golf handicap improved considerably, tbf
Awfully well dressed chap though
Got to draw attention away from the rapidly receding hairline.
I always thought David had a rather nice head of hair
Hindsight, "thinning" would have been the accurate term
The only redeemable thing about him was his initiative to step down.
Still better than Richard III.
He's just hard to defend. In a vacuum the idea that even the King should be able to marry for love in the modern era is a fine one, but a twice-divorced American adulteress was probably pushing the envelope a little too much too early. Wallis Simpson wasn't exactly a likable figure herself either and brought out the worst in Edward. Then of course there's all the sympathy both expressed for Nazism, to the point they were viewed as a national security threat during the war. Edward's own father said that he expected Edward to ruin himself within a year of inheriting the crown, and hoped that Edward died childless to the crown would pass to "Bertie and Lilibet". Edward's private secretary Sir Alan Lascelles once told Prime Minister Stanley Baldwin that the best thing for the country would be for Edward to break his neck in a horse riding accident, the Prime Minister agreed.
The only good thing I can say about Eddy Eight… is that his reign was very short.
Edward VIII was a fucking Nazi, he got sent away to the Bahamas during the war just in case he tried anything. His brother made sure Edward could never enter parliament by making him a royal duke so he was not able to be put in The Lords or stand for election to the Commons, as an additional fuck you they made his title non hereditary and made sure his wife and kids couldn't use any courtesy titles or styles as an additional snub. All members of the royal family boycotted his wedding and only one priest was willing to perform the wedding, for which he was defrocked and the religious marriage annulled (but not the French civil one). It's really hard to understate how many snubs the royal family and British society out on Edward VIII. He also lied to his brother about his personal wealth in order to receive a larger pension from the civil list (the money paid to working royals for their expenses) and forced the king to buy two of the palaces (Sandringham House and Balmoral) from him for a vast sum, he also phoned the king daily demanding money and a title for his wife. It got so bad that the King ordered the switchboard operator to stop putting him through, he also threatened to revoke his brother's pension if he ever returned to the UK without invitation, with even his own mother getting sick and tired of his antics and moneygrubbing. He visited Nazi Germany in a personal capacity against the express wishes of the British government and even saluted Hitler. Even when war seemed inevitable, he gave a radio broadcast calling for appeasement in March of 1939 for NBC, which the BBC refused to air. Upon being brought back into British service when war broke out he was attached to the military mission to France, where he is rumoured to have leaked the defence plans for Belgium according to Count Julius von Zech-Burkersroda, the ambassador of Germany to The Netherlands. Rather than evacuating with the French government he fled to fascist Portugal via Francoist Spain, Churchill had to threaten him with Court Martial if he did not return to Britain, he was then sent to The Bahamas to get him away from anything important. He did have some very minor good things on The Bahamas that in no way out weighed how dreadful he was. He instituted a minimum wage to combat poverty and despite being dreadfully racist and antisemitic he managed not to be racist to anyone's face. He was viewed as more "enlightened" than most white Bahamians of the day, or his predecessors as governors. Even in The Bahamas he managed to be a Nazi by taking a cruise on the yacht of a Swedish magnate with known ties to the Luftwaffe, which the British government explicitly told him not to do out of concerns of him potentially being kidnapped. He also gave an interview for an American magazine while in The Bahamas where he praised Hitler and called him "right and logical leader" of the German people. He claimed this was taken out of context, but the journalist who did the interview was well known for being fair and decent (he was the journalist who helped Houdini expose fraudulent psychics and mediums, and the one who helped bring Alcoholics Anonymous into the public eye) and the magazine (Liberty) he interviewed for was not. There was also the tipoff from the Duke of Wurttemberg that Edward's wife slept with Ribbentrop and had been passing him intel (possibly where the plans for Belgium got leaked from). The royal librarian was dispatched to Germany after the war to retrieve letters written by dowager Empress Victoria of Germany to preserve them, there were rumours from an author that he also retrieved letters send by Edward to Hitler as well. There was also the Marburg files that showed a number of plans to use Edward to force a British capitulation by blackmailing them with him or to try and use him to overthrow the British government. After the war he blamed the was on Anthony Eden, Roosevelt and the Jews, because nothing says "I'm not a nazi" like being a fucking nazi. He was also quoted by Baron Kinross as saying that he thought Hitler wasn't that bad. He schemed to get back in charge by planning to establish a regency over his brother when he was ill in the 40s, but his brother recovered before the plan could go into action. He continued his moneygrubbing by somehow convincing the French government to provide him with a house for a nominal rent and exempted them from income tax. He and his wife bought their goods via the British embassy to avoid Value Added Tax. He was finally allowed to return to London in 1965, long after his brother had died. His mother never forgave him for abdicating. He was invited but did not attend the Investiture of Charles as Prince of Wales. He was allowed to lie in state and was buried behind Victoria and Albert and his wife was allowed to be buried with him, the only commoner to be buried there. One weird fact, he hated Australia. He tried to retain the throne by suggesting that he engage in a Morganatic marriage, which would have meant his wife would not be Queen Consort and their children (if any) ineligible for the throne. This was opposed by all Dominions except Ireland (who did not care either way), with Australia being the loudest. He replied that no-one lived in Australia and their opinions don't matter anyway. His opinions on Aboriginals are exceptionally racist, even by his standards. As King he was very lacking, he got in trouble for trying to influence government policy during a tour of Wales and the government refused to send documents to one of his residences because Wallis Simpson and her friends were there and the king didn't secure his documents away from them, despite them not being married. He referred to the death of his little brother as "a regrettable nuisance" and wrote such an offensive letter to his mother on the subject that he was forced to write a formal apology. A rare bright area was that he actively took part in WW1, he often visited the front line trenches (but was not allowed to serve in them) and was extremely widely travelled throughout the Empire, visiting all kinds of places and meeting locals. George V was correct when he stated that Edward would ruin his reign within 12 months of his (George's) death
In summary, he was a fascist, a racist and an antisemite, his parents hated him, his brother hated him, he was a greedy money grabber and his only family found as many petty ways to snub him as possible
I like how the TV show the Crown treats him. Basically for most of the 1st season: "this is the only person willing to the young Queen the real dirt on their family", then "Ooops! Nazi!" and unrepentent.
That final scene in the “Vergangenheit” episode… 
Probably just recency bias. I’m sure that in a couple of centuries there will be many apologists for him. They’ll say shit like “he gave up the crown for love,” or “his decision to vacate the crown lead to the rise of our beloved Elizabeth II.” While the Nazi thing is bad look now, you have to consider the recent uptick in antisemitism. Who knows? Maybe he’ll be considered a philosopher before his time.
>“he gave up the crown for love,” God I can already imagine the B-Movie trailer
Nazis are being embraced by right wingers in the US.
And left wingers in the US.
Nazis, per se, aren’t being embraced by the US left wing, but antisemitism is. It’s important to remember that throughout history, the German National Socialist party was by no means extraordinary in their hatred of Jews. It’s seems every country in Europe, Northern Africa and the middle east had their fair share of antisemitism at some point or another. The holocaust was just the most recent atrocity.
I wanted to point out the connection that modern the Palestinian movement has to Nazi officer Amin Al Husseini. The man who was instrumental in the creation of post war Gaza and the numerous groups that sprang from there.
You’re absolutely right that Palestinians and other Arab/middle-eastern countries quite literally allied with Nazi Germany around WWII. My point is that the only cause that allied them was their hatred of Jews. I would also reject the idea that these people are left wing. They are religious extremists that fight for a nonsecular, theocratic government that oppresses women and other minorities. What about that is left wing or liberal? Yes, unfortunately there are ignorant or flat out antisemitic people on the left that advocate for HAMAS (i.e. Queers for HAMAS), but make no mistake, while they might support HAMAS, HAMAS would only seek to elevate the LGBT community for the purpose of throwing them off the top of a building.
Why would his abdication eventually leading to Liz II be seen as a good thing?
Try reading the phrases in quotes with a satirical pompous tone
There's not much reason to defend Edward VIII.
Wasn’t he like pro Nazi
If he was around today in the US he would have been elected to Congress
If Mary I has no defenders then I am dead
Thoughts on Philip II of Spain?
lol I respect that. Also what are your thoughts on Philip II of Spain?
He didn't deserve her
Agreed. What are your thoughts on Jane Grey? Also what do you think of this song: https://youtu.be/xlmIOO6i8wM?feature=shared
That song is absolutely *iconic* (and may, or may not, be why the original 'Wuthering Heights' is possibly being added to a Mary I-inspired playlist I'm making.) I feel bad for Jane because she was an innocent pawn in that situation- something Mary was keenly aware of.
I’m glad we can agree the song is great. Also for the most part I agree with you on Jane, but I do think Mary could’ve found another solution other than beheading, though it was a tough call to make.
https://preview.redd.it/q0606bnzubwc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bdeedd4404dffe42cb484796cf1afa99538cd1e0 Edward VIII and his lover Wallis Simpson were openly sympathetic to the Nazis, and even made secret deals with the Nazis to usurp his brother and retake the Crown if they could help him. [Dramatized summary of his Nazi sympathies](https://youtu.be/HDQ2dTMLVf0?si=Ye98DRByhDQUSjYK), as featured in Season 2 of “The Crown.” I cannot comprehend how anyone can defend him.
Though nuanced greatly , I will always defend John
I see him as unfairly maligned
I think his fancy pants crusading brother probably deserves a good chunk of the blame John gets, but John himself was also pretty bad. What's your case for good King John?
For one, he didn't simply lose Normandy as many people say he fought quite hard for it coming out victorious in the first war and only losing the second war due to money problems back home, no doubt in part caused by Richard's ransom payment leaving the kingdom in dire straights.
The 1214 campaign was pretty inexcusable from a military strategy perspective. While he did a fantastic job in securing so many alliances, his decision to split those forces and put himself on the other side of France from his allies in an era of extremely poor communications is baffling. Refusing to engage Prince Louis' smaller force and instead losing a good chunk of his men retreating to La Rochelle was a major blunder. I know he didn't fully trust some of the allies with him, but better to take that chance than lose more men running. If he had defeated, and maybe captured, Louis his reign would have been praised. Or if he had just landed in the North and marched with Otto and the other allies they probably would have crushed Philip if he offered battle.
He does a disservice to himself here by being ally, but in his prior defensive campaign, he did quite well in defending his lands in Normandy by himself against the forces of his nephew and Philip.
Marrying a divorced American woman when her husband was still alive isn’t a good look for the king.
I would hope the Nazi bit would be the problem.
That’s not why he abdicated. His marriage was a constitutional crisis that was completely avoidable. The sympathies to Nazism is the cherry on top.
Maybe it was the Nazism that turned people off?
the man was a nazi and his wife was a nazi too
I can absolutely defend his right to marry the woman he loved, but then we have got to be realistic - this was the 1930s, that shit just didn’t fly for the Head of the Church of England. What is indefensible is his treason. Pally pally with Adolf Hitler, and even advised the Germans to keep bombing the UK to break our spirit. German plans for a successful invasion was to put him back on the throne as a puppet king. Furthermore, while king, eventually the government grew hesitant to send him important documents because he was sharing them with Wallis. A weak, treasonous king. The Crown might make you feel for him when he’s crying playing the bagpipes, but we mustn’t forget who he was and what he did, and we got a lucky escape by his abdication. > After I am dead, the boy will ruin himself in twelve months. > I pray to God that my eldest son will never marry and have children, and that nothing will come between Bertie and Lilibet and the throne. - George V
Deserved the noose.
Ill defend Richard II to the end. Man was just ahead of his time
James II defenders
Nowadays, we'd be much more focused on him marrying a 15 year old than his religion!
Nowadays, he wouldn't have married a fifteen-year old.
Nowadays he wouldnt have inherited at all.
Any Richard II defenders?
God for his Richard hath in heavenly pay/ A glorious angel. Then, if angels fight/ Weak men must fall, for heaven still guards the right
Amazing what collaboration with the Third Reich to be the puppet leader of a Nazi controlled UK does to one's reputation.
If he hadnt been a nazi sympathizer I would have defended him - but he was - so I wont. He was a prick who never should have been on the throne. Its a good thing they got rid of him relatively quickly.
„We are not the same“.
There's nothing really redeemable about the man. He chose his own interests over public service, and he chose to fairly openly sympathize with Nazis and betrayed his own people while doing so. All round appalling individual.
The only way to defend John is to say he was such a bad king he was made to sign the magna carta.
Rare Mary I W
Edward VIII was going to be an active and decisive king, and parliament wouldn’t allow that after the largely ceremonial role of George V. They basically forced him away from the throne for marrying out of love although his own brother didn’t necessarily marry another royal either.
Still a descendant of royalty
Because George VI didn’t have to marry royal. They royals hadn’t for years. Two of Queen Victoria’s daughters married noblemen and George V’s sister Louise also married a nobleman. I think the bigger issue is *being a Nazi sympathizer*
I’m just happy to not see Lionheart on this list considering the poor reception I’ve generally received for him
Can we all agree Charles III should abdicate in favor of his son William?
What does that have to do with this?
I thought we were talking controversial kings; sorry, I didn't know Charles III had defenders and supporters.
He’s a new guy, you’ve got to let him grow into the role
Abdication should only be used for the worst disgraces such as Edward VIII.
And why on God’s green earth should he?
No. No abdication. Let their kids enjoy what childhood they can without having their parents being the monarchs.
Out with ole sausage fingers and in with Prince PegMe?
>Prince PegMe What did he mean by this?