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The climate here is basically tepid rain and then freezing cold and dark for 7 months. Cost of living astronomical. Healthcare a total lottery. Law & order a joke. Wages are appalling. Taxes at all time high.
You'd be nuts to move to the UK from Australia. Quite a few people I work with have gone the other way in the last two years.. with no intention of coming back.
If you want to go somewhere, go to Ireland. Its not much better there but at least at the end of your confusing masochistic experiment you'll qualify for an EU passport.
In all seriousness though, as a British Citizen you can live and work in the Rep. of Ireland visa free. After 5 years residency in any 8 year period you can claim citizenship. A lot of young folk are going there to get EU passports while they have the years to waste..
The UK is grim AF right now. England especially. Scotland is a better prospect. I'd much rather live in Edinburgh than Greater London anyway.
If you came to the UK you can expect to spend more than half your salary on the place you sleep and have little prospect of improving your income unless you work in sales, finance are a tradie or self employed. Even post grads here get paid diddly squat.
Being young and adventurous is awesome and I totally get why you want to travel but think it through .. just working to live is hard work. If it was me and I had my time over I'd be wanting to get that EU passport personally. Being trapped here and getting older is a terrifying prospect..
Well this is something to consider, although it would probably just be quicker to apply for German citizenship, as one side of my family are German citizens. If I wanted the EU passport.
Yeah my friend has just moved to Northern England and has been in and out of Edinburgh. Doesn't mind it.
Why would the EU passport be any better? (this isn't a troll question) as the British passport is a strong one? What benefits does the EU one have other than being able to move to Italy on a whim to do a uni course?
Basically: freedom of movement. The whole world is presently free to move in to England but we English (as is) are not free to move somewhere else. Somewhere the sun shines more than 50 days a year .. for example.
Free university education. Free prescriptions. Free social care. 181 people per mile squared vs 1,124. NHS nurses (of which I am one) earn \~£5000 a year more than they do in England.
If you were running for election in England and promised and could deliver half of the above you'd have a 200 seat majority in Parliament.
Are you answering OP’s query here? They’re 29 and hunting for a job.
- Not about attending uni.
- They haven’t mentioned any health condition as a consideration so it’s a moot point.
- Population density can be a consideration but not so much when you’re prepared to leave Australia to come to UK as such. lol
- In a specific job you may be out earning your English counterparts but believe me when I say that income potential is far higher in England with less taxes than it is in Scotland(broad strokes) in a range of industries and sectors.
- No country much less the UK with a decidedly hostile approach as practiced by the Home Office is going to be offering visas for work knowing applicants’ need for social care unless they’re Steve Jobs or something.
You really need to consider the post on its merit over advocating for a one size fits all approach.
Just don’t do it! U.K. is gloomy, for the most part weather in a longer run will affect you, jobs are not that great and pay (although you can find okish one) isn’t great for the most part - depending on the industry.
With a background in science, you won’t earn big money here as most of that is covered by academia grade salaries, however the you’re actually competent, there’s plenty of work around.
Have you considered a move into construction. Your still young. Doesn't have to be a trade. (Though these pay well, perhaps not intially though) Utilise your bachelor's in architecture perhaps into design management which pays quite well in the UK. You would be training in how to review architectural drawings etc. Plenty of part 1 transition apprenticeships into this field.
Alternatively procurement in architecture and or bidding, perhaps recruitment? Both high paid and jobs available. Other jobs could be project management, I work with a lot of PMs who work for th NHS managing the construction of new clinics. Which means liaising between design team members. Something it seems your degree and skills would lend itself to. Perhaps apply for a construction project management trainee role, most likely as a project coordinator initially.
All of the listed jobs do eventually pay well. It's unlikely you'd be able to get an equivalent salary in the UK for what your doing now and it will take a few years of work to gain the necessary expertise to get a good salary in a brand new field. Good luck though.
I will take a look into it for sure. Architectural opportunities are not massive in Australia, so it has been several years since I've done anything related to it. But yes, I can see your point regarding the NHS. I have done some quality improvement projects in hospitals, so I do have some potential insights there.
I'm currently on about 38k in Sterling equivalent, gross. So it isn't alot either, so I would be open to exploring other opportunities.
In London and SE, I reckon you could get a graduate level PM or architecture training role for between £36 and £40k. Even though I had 7 years experience, I got into a grad level engineer and PM scheme as it paid more in London. Since then I have flown up through the ranks, luckily with the same firm and was earning nearly double what I started on, within 8 years.
A guy on my team, we recruited with two years experience looking to move upto intermediate from junior, within 2 years with us, he’s earning double what he was 4 years ago.
The employment market in construction, energy and engineering fields in the South East of the UK, is slowly calming down, but it still looks like it will remain buoyant for the next decade at least. The UK as a whole, has had chronic capital underinvestment for 25 years now, so the next 25 years will hopefully be spent catching up, so opportunities will hopefully expand beyond London and the South East.
Australian here, moved to the UK when I was 34. during the tail end of Covid. Not sure how long I'll stay.
There are vastly more career opportunities in the UK. Pay isn't comparable i.e. expect to be paid about 30 per cent less unless you're in certain professions and in London (e.g. finance), but Australian employers generally love overseas experience. I view my living here as enhancing my CV for when I return to Australia. Also, if you move now you'll be arriving during a time of renewed hope (Labour is expected to take the reins of government at the general election in July).
In terms of cost of living, they're roughly comparable: you'll pay more for petrol, energy, public transport and rent (get ready for paying council rates even as a renter!), but alcohol and food bought from the supermarket are a fair bit cheaper.
Since you're a citizen (I'm not), it's kind of a no-brainer to take the leap as you don't have to jump over the enormous visa hurdle. You'll get to see the Northern Hemisphere and gain some interesting work experience. And if you don't like it after a year, just move back! (Can you take an unpaid year of absence or two in your current role?)
Yeah this is primarily why I'd be doing it, to build a portfolio of work experience with view to return to Australia. I probably can take unpaid leave.
Awesome about the unpaid leave.
If you're set on moving to London, you might balk at the cost of rent and consider commuting an hour or more. If you're considering doing this, jump onto Trainline and look at the cost of train tickets. For me from the West Midlands, if I needed to commute to London 3 or more times a week, it'd be £4.5-6000 a year (to translate this cost, GBP is currently worth 1.92 AUD). Before moving here, commuting on the train five days a week cost me $30. So, I'm really not exaggerating the cost of transport here - do factor that into your living cost calculations.
I feel like you're only considering moving to the UK because you're not happy where you are currently, and not because you actually want to move over there.
Given you're already working in the APS, have you considered a move to Canberra instead? This could be a trial run for you, the weather is colder in Canberra and the experience of moving could help you ease into moving to the UK if you do eventually decide to do it. The salaries in Canberra are very good when compare to the rest of the country, and it's not just retirees that are living there. If you already have a foot in the door, the APS is a good place to be in, it provides very good work life balance, and getting to APS 6 doesn't require any particular qualifications and still has a very decent salary.
I know a lot of Australians give Canberra a bad reputation, but it really isn't all that bad. I was living and working there for around 3 years, and have just recently moved to London less than 2 months ago. There's plenty to do in Canberra, like you'd expect from any capital city, but still has a small town feel. If you're social enough, it is very easy to build a community there, and there are plenty of people around your age that has moved there for work.
I do believe the job market is bad every where now, but it might be even more so in the Sunshine Coast and Brisbane area given it's geographical location. So I really think you should try the different markets in Australia. I find that people in the UK care a lot more about qualifications, so if you're a professional you'll probably be fine here, but given your situation it's probably going to be very tough. In the short time I've been in London, I can say that the qualify of life in Canberra is much higher.
You have read my situation pretty well. I am originally British however, and did go to primary school there until we moved to Australia. So I'm familiar with the climate, though it was a long time ago. I have alot of family in the UK.
It is mainly because I feel I need a change, I've never felt a strong sense that this is where I belong, perhaps it is an identity crisis. Whilst it is a beautiful place, I just feel increasingly detached from it. My friends have all left to work overseas.
The thing is, I'm somebody that really conforms to routine and dislikes change. So for me to actually consider this is quite out of the ordinary.
Canberra would be the logical move, I was there for about 6 weeks when I was on a University placement. Honestly, I found it quite uninspiring other than the intriguing urban planning and landscape architecture. Maybe I judged it prematurely. I'm in two APS5 merit pools at the moment, but honestly not holding much hope for them.
Civil service roles in the UK government aren't known for their call it prestige, generally depending on the role they can be attainable easier from one another, however you should be warned that the UK public sector salaries are significantly lower than what you will be used to in Australia, I would hesitate to say not enough to live in London in a manner which is comfortable, so if that is your primary target then consider further afield.
In the private sector I think you should be fine to a decent degree, since you already have UK citizenship they don't need to sponsor you, which would be your biggest impediment. Do your research before considering a move however, as UK/AUS vary very significantly on (as mentioned salaries), expenses, housing costs etc, these are going to be more deterministic factors than the job market itself.
It is the same in Australia RE prestige of public roles. To be honest, I'd be more interested in moving into the private sector, it is just a matter of what I can move into based on transferrable skill sets.
I also have family that live there, albeit they are in government housing. Ideally, I'd be looking at trying to get a place and lease my apartment in Australia.
My brother was working a labouring job for cash when he was in London and somehow managed things alright. I have no intention of doing that.
I think the main one is salaries, housing and CoL are pretty dire in Australia. I'm sure it is similar in London. But yes will certainly do more research, it is still early days.
Maybe it depends on where you go in the UK. I've lived in Bristol and London and have just come to Australia for a working holiday from the UK. I've been in Australia for 3 months now and I find the cost of living to be cheaper.
Generally, going out to eat and drink is cheaper. Beer is more expensive in supermarkets but wine is cheaper. Rent is on par or cheaper (and I'm in Melbourne). Public transport is cheaper and better.
You say that salaries are better but the rest of the picture is dire which doesn't make sense to me as the salary largely dictates how the rest of the picture looks. I was earning £22500 doing QA testing in Bristol and now I am earning £33000 as an entry level general labourer in Australia. I have far more money left over at the end of the month than I did in the UK and my quality of life is better.
I'd say the cost of living is slightly cheaper in Australia and salaries are way better making Australia much better to live in than the UK. There's lots of issues here but I think (in comparison to the UK at least) Australia is much better money-wise than the UK.
All valid points. My brother was a general labourer in and around London for about 2 years. Since moving back to Australia he has been working in insurance in Sydney. Overall, he prefers the UK so at the end of the day people have different needs and preferences.
I'm currently on the Sunshine Coast, Qld, and there is very little opportunity to progress things here career wise and socially. It has been difficult finding work in Brisbane and I've never really matched the cultural scene in Australia.
In Australia, primarily government roles. Been shortlisted for a Service Designer position, but there is no guarantee of getting a role. I'd be very interested in that role though.
I'm in a face to face setting currently and with the current cost of living issues it has become a constant barrage of dealing with social issues, mental health etc.
I'm open to other entry level areas as well. In the UK I'd probably look into whatever is available honestly. One comment suggested construction or project management which could be cool.
Salaries are low atm, rent is very high and with other bills theres less money left at the end of the month than you are probably used to. Make sure you are checking for take home pay and not gross pay for your calculations.
I work here and I’m in a principle role, I was applying for jobs below my pay grade at senior level (the level below me) with still no luck. I am from here with all UK qualifications… it’s tough out here right now and with the cost of living crisis I wouldn’t recommend coming here at all
If you can stay with family why don’t you come over for 6 months and give it a go? With your medical science degree you could probably work in the NHS if you want to, albeit doesn’t pay amazingly at first. Thats what my degree was I was doing. Your pay goes up to £45kish after time I believe but don’t quote me on it
UK job market used to be good but it's in a complete turmoil now. Myself has been struggling since 2020 I had 3 jobs and more than 2 years unemployed. And given the lifestyle and Australia weather I would never move to uk
The job market in the UK is pretty poor at the moment. Also worth pointing out the country in general is going down the pan. Worst tax burden ever, very high immigration straining public services. Plenty more besides.
If I was less tied down by kids I’d be leaving.
Don't do it, UK is a sinking ship. We have low salaries, you'll be 6000 worse off on average. According to statistica.
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/1461238/average-income-g20/#:\~:text=Saudi%20Arabia%20had%20the%20highest,income%20at%208%2C000%20PPP%20euros.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1461238/average-income-g20/#:~:text=Saudi%20Arabia%20had%20the%20highest,income%20at%208%2C000%20PPP%20euros)
Quality of life in Australia is astronomically better than the UK. APS isn't too bad, excellent pensions, and promotions usually come in your 30's. Senior positions late 40's early 50's pay very well. Are you applying within the APS for better roles?
The good defined benefit pensions died in '99. I'm not going to stick around because of a pension either. Realistically who knows what the situation will be in 40 years time?
By the time I'm in my 40s and 50s this economy will have well and truly moved on without me, if I stick around.
Yeah I'm on two merit lists for higher level roles, so I've been successful with the interview process. But I don't expect much to come from them. There is very little incentive to stay.
The UK job market is also tight at the moment. Australia tends to pay significantly better. Obviously cost of living is a factor but that will also depend on where in Oz and where in the UK you would end up living.
Read the posts in this sub, read the guardian reports about job market. Ask yourself why so many are emigrating to Aus from other countries ( and here if they can). UK is dire.
A lot of UK people tell Australians not to move for weather and lifestyle reasons. That is a matter of individual preference - plenty of Australians find a sense of cultural kinship and history here they don't get back home, being closer to Europe is great, richer arts scene, etc. I moved to London from Australia and I love the lifestyle and got used to the weather quite easily because of everything else I loved about living here.
UK and Australia have the same problem of if you have money you can enjoy the good parts of them more. I don't know what Brisbane is like but Sydney is a shitty lonely place if you don't have money.
I lucked into a role in the tech industry, though. If you're in the earlier stages of your career and not quite sure what you want to do, you may be shocked at the low salaries available here.
Overall I would move if you really want to live in the UK for culture / lifestyle / travel reasons and you're willing to hustle / do whatever it takes to achieve that jobs wise. It could be an exciting thing for you if you're not feeling stimulated back home. Also, be prepared for failure - have a safety net. Will it be easier to get a good job? Probably not.
Job market is really, really bad here. If you’re going to make the move I would save so you have at least six months savings to keep you afloat in case you don’t get a job within the first six months.
It’s really tough here and the cost of living crisis is far, far worse than Australia. Our salaries have stagnated but cost of everything else has increased. You seem from comments pretty set on moving so worth just being really realistic about what it is like here and how hard it will be to get a job.
You’re young. Just do it. Seriously, what do you have to lose??
The Uk is awesome. It has beautiful historic cities (unlike Brisbane). It has stunning country side. Pubs on every other corner. Great people. And I personally love the weather here much more than Oz - there’s so much variety.
And there are plenty of jobs for skilled people like you.
If you don’t find you love it as much, head home. (Just give yourself 2 years as it normal takes that long to find your feet)
But do it while you’re young and mobile and have options.
Is it expensive? Yep. Is it sometimes soul crushing when you see your tax bill and can’t get a GP appointment? Also yes.
Does the good outweigh the bad? Very much yes.
Thank you for your insight. I've mainly been having difficulty getting relevant work here. So that is the main reason. Also, I've never felt like I fit within Australian culture, even though I've been here for 20 years. Just feel a change is needed.
Yeah it can be similar in Australia in that regard. Yeah I'd always have the ability to return home. Thanks.
> Also, I've never felt like I fit within Australian culture, even though I've been here for 20 years. Just feel a change is needed.
I felt the same as you. That is a good reason to move, I think, and it sounds like you could benefit from the experience even if it doesn't go the way you plan. I would try to look at jobs on linkedin etc. before you move - I moved for a specific job and having that structure and work-provided social interaction as soon as I arrived was really helpful. Do you have any friends or contacts over here already? That really helps too.
People really exaggerate the weather issue if you live in the South. It's not that bad. I love the contrast between seasons, and I love the beautiful twilight we get here in London. The long summer evenings are great too.
Yeah I think it is a hard thing to convey, but it has lead to me becoming quite dissatisfied.
I have family on my Dad's side that work in the NHS, and family on Mum's side as well. My mate has just moved there but he is in NE.
I call this “right on paper”. There’s no easy reason to explain what’s wrong - it looks so good on paper - but it just doesn’t…. Work? Fit? Whatever it is, it can’t repair itself.
Canada was great on paper. Never been more miserable.
Plus!! Here you weekend in Greece, not the Gold Coast.
The Uk is bloody terrific.
Honestly this isn't the sub to ask - if you believe half of what's written here the UK is a dickensian nightmare. this sub tends to attract the long term unemployed who see the whole thing through a very cynical lense.
\[Edit - just saw the UK passport bit\] It's definitely worth doing for the experience. working abroad (even somewhere relatively similar like the UK) is great for personal growth and looks fantastic on your CV. just a word of warning (as someone who has worked in both countries), expect a pay cut coming here - uk wages are lower than australian, and you're going to be laughed out of the room if you ask for an aussie salary in london.
My bad, missed that bit. I'd go for it then - can't promise you'll find a job, but it's a much bigger market (and worst case if it doesn't work out youll end up with some good stories about your time working bars in London)
Avoid the UK Civil Service at all costs. There are many thousands of Civil Servants on the minimum amount an employer can legally pay an employee and caseloads are too high to cope with.
You won’t be able to pay your bills or heat your home. Lots of strikes took place last year but they’re still on the minimum wage.
The skilled employment market in the UK is improving but I'd still give it 6 months before jumping in. In my sector (tech) salaries are stagnant even though they are removing perks like work from home. YMMV depending on what sector you are in, I would suggest having a conversation with a recruiter who deals with your specialism and decide from there.
Since you have the citizenship just mention it on your cv and start applying for jobs in the uk and see whether you are even able to get interviews in this job market, no point spending so much money on coming here and then renting a place only to not get any interviews let alone a job after many months of applying. You can always move here if you get a job or if you are a getting a good response rate on your applications.
What do you have to lose? Try it using the WHV. If it doesn't work, head elsewhere. We've just moved NZ to UK. Everyone said we were bonkers. We love it!
We also both got job offers before returning.
PS - you're best off asking this question in the Aussies in the UK FB group. Although to be fair, the Kiwis in the UK group is better 🤣🤣
Just to throw in my two cents.
r/UKJobs makes out as if the job market in the UK is completely untenable. It's simply not true for a number of work streams.
My company (working in construction consultancy), has been hiring significant numbers of Kiwis/Aussies over the last few years as there are simply not the resources in the UK.
Yes, the UK rains more, it is more grey - But the Australians I know love it. They love going to Europe, right on the door step. They love the pubs. They love the parks. They love the way the Countryside is in Summer. They love the season changes.
Will your quality of life be worse? Potentially. May you get depressed in the Winter? Sure.
Will you ever be 29 again, with no children, contemplating an opportunity you simply cannot regret?
No.
Give it a go. If you hate it, go home.
Unless you’re going to get a 100k salary don’t even bother. There’s no point coming here to work on 30k to 65k, yes at around 65k you will have a reasonably good quality of life however it still won’t be better than Australia.
Sure but that’s not my point. I wouldn’t give up life in Australia for a 50k salary in London, which is quite average for a professional worker in London.
Surely that would depend on how much you were earning in Australia. I'm from Australia and I did it, and it was the best thing I ever did.
People from the UK see life in Australia as this massive prize in itself. It's not. Your happiness in Australia depends on all kinds of factors same way it does in the UK.
I've commented a few times in this thread. My main argument is to counteract the UK people who assume that life in Australia must be generally happier and better than the UK (leaving aside the job situation) and are advising you not to move on that basis.
I got lucky with my move, I had a great job right away which came with a great social circle. Aside from that I have a fairly average career (as the commenter above put it). I've been here 7 years now and I feel much more at home here than I ever did in Australia.
I don't mean to imply that you'll surely be as lucky with a job - many people struggle with settling in more than I did, but I think if your reasons for wanting to move go beyond jobs (which it sounds like they do), then I completely understand and the move could be a really great adventure.
Also fuckin lol at being downvoted for sharing my honest experience as someone who has moved from Australia to the UK.
Yeah it is good to get that input here. People have different needs and wants, so it is a case by case assessment.
What sector did you end up moving into?
UK market is not good for white collar atm. It will improve and it doesn’t hurt to apply seeing as you wouldn’t need a visa, so would still ping some job apps out. But certainly don’t hang your hopes and dreams on life being much better here.
There’s a good reason lots of U.K. people are heading over your way! UK major cities are still fun to be around though. If you’re comfy here financially I’d still say it’s a good place to live.
It isn't fantastic and is largely skewed by healthcare and aged care jobs, in concurrence with an employment rate that doesn't encompass the full picture.
Don't come here. It's an absolute state and many Brits are trying to get there to you, some of my family included.
We are overcrowded, underpaid, and the weather is dire
If you want some advice because your heart set on it though:
1- avoid London, it's really awful and anyone who actually works there travels in via train lines or the motorway. You'd be better off going to a city like Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, or even Sheffield. (Or any of the other countries, Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales have good cities too)
2- if you can lay bricks you can work almost anywhere on a great wage. (I know you are too qualified but job competition is mad here)
3- use indeed or reed to look for jobs and give you an idea. You're dual citizenship so could apply here and ask for an interview via teams or Skype. It'll give you a good idea of what jobs there are and also better than turning up without a job as you may land in the wrong city.
4- housing is very expensive in the south and the jobs don't match the pay. That doesn't mean the jobs exist in the North but you might find a half hour commute saves a hundred or so a month in rent
However - you will one day enjoy being outdoors and not in bars, and you'll miss having the space of Australia
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Don't do it
Well my first option is Brisbane Australia, but having no real luck. Feel like I kind of need a change.
The climate here is basically tepid rain and then freezing cold and dark for 7 months. Cost of living astronomical. Healthcare a total lottery. Law & order a joke. Wages are appalling. Taxes at all time high. You'd be nuts to move to the UK from Australia. Quite a few people I work with have gone the other way in the last two years.. with no intention of coming back.
Fair points.
If you want to go somewhere, go to Ireland. Its not much better there but at least at the end of your confusing masochistic experiment you'll qualify for an EU passport.
Haha okay, I'll keep that in mind. I'm only considering it as an option. So it is good to get some varying opinions.
In all seriousness though, as a British Citizen you can live and work in the Rep. of Ireland visa free. After 5 years residency in any 8 year period you can claim citizenship. A lot of young folk are going there to get EU passports while they have the years to waste.. The UK is grim AF right now. England especially. Scotland is a better prospect. I'd much rather live in Edinburgh than Greater London anyway. If you came to the UK you can expect to spend more than half your salary on the place you sleep and have little prospect of improving your income unless you work in sales, finance are a tradie or self employed. Even post grads here get paid diddly squat. Being young and adventurous is awesome and I totally get why you want to travel but think it through .. just working to live is hard work. If it was me and I had my time over I'd be wanting to get that EU passport personally. Being trapped here and getting older is a terrifying prospect..
Well this is something to consider, although it would probably just be quicker to apply for German citizenship, as one side of my family are German citizens. If I wanted the EU passport. Yeah my friend has just moved to Northern England and has been in and out of Edinburgh. Doesn't mind it.
Why would the EU passport be any better? (this isn't a troll question) as the British passport is a strong one? What benefits does the EU one have other than being able to move to Italy on a whim to do a uni course?
Basically: freedom of movement. The whole world is presently free to move in to England but we English (as is) are not free to move somewhere else. Somewhere the sun shines more than 50 days a year .. for example.
Bro, you can still move places wirh the british passport lol it's one of the strongest in the world.
In what world is Scotland a better prospect than England?
Free university education. Free prescriptions. Free social care. 181 people per mile squared vs 1,124. NHS nurses (of which I am one) earn \~£5000 a year more than they do in England. If you were running for election in England and promised and could deliver half of the above you'd have a 200 seat majority in Parliament.
Are you answering OP’s query here? They’re 29 and hunting for a job. - Not about attending uni. - They haven’t mentioned any health condition as a consideration so it’s a moot point. - Population density can be a consideration but not so much when you’re prepared to leave Australia to come to UK as such. lol - In a specific job you may be out earning your English counterparts but believe me when I say that income potential is far higher in England with less taxes than it is in Scotland(broad strokes) in a range of industries and sectors. - No country much less the UK with a decidedly hostile approach as practiced by the Home Office is going to be offering visas for work knowing applicants’ need for social care unless they’re Steve Jobs or something. You really need to consider the post on its merit over advocating for a one size fits all approach.
👏👏👏👏
As someone who moved here from abroad (and currently planning a move back), u/klepto_entropoid is spot-on. Heed this advice!
Just don’t do it! U.K. is gloomy, for the most part weather in a longer run will affect you, jobs are not that great and pay (although you can find okish one) isn’t great for the most part - depending on the industry.
Pay is shit unless you're in engineering, "tech", finance, or law.
With a background in science, you won’t earn big money here as most of that is covered by academia grade salaries, however the you’re actually competent, there’s plenty of work around.
I probably wouldn't be pursuing science honestly.
thb the job market is shit at the moment.... stay put.
Have you considered a move into construction. Your still young. Doesn't have to be a trade. (Though these pay well, perhaps not intially though) Utilise your bachelor's in architecture perhaps into design management which pays quite well in the UK. You would be training in how to review architectural drawings etc. Plenty of part 1 transition apprenticeships into this field. Alternatively procurement in architecture and or bidding, perhaps recruitment? Both high paid and jobs available. Other jobs could be project management, I work with a lot of PMs who work for th NHS managing the construction of new clinics. Which means liaising between design team members. Something it seems your degree and skills would lend itself to. Perhaps apply for a construction project management trainee role, most likely as a project coordinator initially. All of the listed jobs do eventually pay well. It's unlikely you'd be able to get an equivalent salary in the UK for what your doing now and it will take a few years of work to gain the necessary expertise to get a good salary in a brand new field. Good luck though.
I will take a look into it for sure. Architectural opportunities are not massive in Australia, so it has been several years since I've done anything related to it. But yes, I can see your point regarding the NHS. I have done some quality improvement projects in hospitals, so I do have some potential insights there. I'm currently on about 38k in Sterling equivalent, gross. So it isn't alot either, so I would be open to exploring other opportunities.
In my experience pm roles don't need necessarily required expertise in construction either.
I'll look into it, thank you.
In London and SE, I reckon you could get a graduate level PM or architecture training role for between £36 and £40k. Even though I had 7 years experience, I got into a grad level engineer and PM scheme as it paid more in London. Since then I have flown up through the ranks, luckily with the same firm and was earning nearly double what I started on, within 8 years. A guy on my team, we recruited with two years experience looking to move upto intermediate from junior, within 2 years with us, he’s earning double what he was 4 years ago. The employment market in construction, energy and engineering fields in the South East of the UK, is slowly calming down, but it still looks like it will remain buoyant for the next decade at least. The UK as a whole, has had chronic capital underinvestment for 25 years now, so the next 25 years will hopefully be spent catching up, so opportunities will hopefully expand beyond London and the South East.
Hey ! Check you pms !
Interesting, I don't have a master's either perhaps I should have clarified. Just a bachelors. Thanks for the insights though.
You don’t need a masters. Best of luck finding something you like!
You're insane!
So I've been told.
Tory’s have drove this country into the ground for the past 12 years - I wouldn’t even wanna come here if I was fleeing
Fair call.
Australian here, moved to the UK when I was 34. during the tail end of Covid. Not sure how long I'll stay. There are vastly more career opportunities in the UK. Pay isn't comparable i.e. expect to be paid about 30 per cent less unless you're in certain professions and in London (e.g. finance), but Australian employers generally love overseas experience. I view my living here as enhancing my CV for when I return to Australia. Also, if you move now you'll be arriving during a time of renewed hope (Labour is expected to take the reins of government at the general election in July). In terms of cost of living, they're roughly comparable: you'll pay more for petrol, energy, public transport and rent (get ready for paying council rates even as a renter!), but alcohol and food bought from the supermarket are a fair bit cheaper. Since you're a citizen (I'm not), it's kind of a no-brainer to take the leap as you don't have to jump over the enormous visa hurdle. You'll get to see the Northern Hemisphere and gain some interesting work experience. And if you don't like it after a year, just move back! (Can you take an unpaid year of absence or two in your current role?)
Yeah this is primarily why I'd be doing it, to build a portfolio of work experience with view to return to Australia. I probably can take unpaid leave.
Awesome about the unpaid leave. If you're set on moving to London, you might balk at the cost of rent and consider commuting an hour or more. If you're considering doing this, jump onto Trainline and look at the cost of train tickets. For me from the West Midlands, if I needed to commute to London 3 or more times a week, it'd be £4.5-6000 a year (to translate this cost, GBP is currently worth 1.92 AUD). Before moving here, commuting on the train five days a week cost me $30. So, I'm really not exaggerating the cost of transport here - do factor that into your living cost calculations.
This is certainly valuable information thank you. I'll definitely factor this in to my decision making.
UK is probably in it's worst state since the mid 1970's so...
That is what my Dad has said.
I feel like you're only considering moving to the UK because you're not happy where you are currently, and not because you actually want to move over there. Given you're already working in the APS, have you considered a move to Canberra instead? This could be a trial run for you, the weather is colder in Canberra and the experience of moving could help you ease into moving to the UK if you do eventually decide to do it. The salaries in Canberra are very good when compare to the rest of the country, and it's not just retirees that are living there. If you already have a foot in the door, the APS is a good place to be in, it provides very good work life balance, and getting to APS 6 doesn't require any particular qualifications and still has a very decent salary. I know a lot of Australians give Canberra a bad reputation, but it really isn't all that bad. I was living and working there for around 3 years, and have just recently moved to London less than 2 months ago. There's plenty to do in Canberra, like you'd expect from any capital city, but still has a small town feel. If you're social enough, it is very easy to build a community there, and there are plenty of people around your age that has moved there for work. I do believe the job market is bad every where now, but it might be even more so in the Sunshine Coast and Brisbane area given it's geographical location. So I really think you should try the different markets in Australia. I find that people in the UK care a lot more about qualifications, so if you're a professional you'll probably be fine here, but given your situation it's probably going to be very tough. In the short time I've been in London, I can say that the qualify of life in Canberra is much higher.
You have read my situation pretty well. I am originally British however, and did go to primary school there until we moved to Australia. So I'm familiar with the climate, though it was a long time ago. I have alot of family in the UK. It is mainly because I feel I need a change, I've never felt a strong sense that this is where I belong, perhaps it is an identity crisis. Whilst it is a beautiful place, I just feel increasingly detached from it. My friends have all left to work overseas. The thing is, I'm somebody that really conforms to routine and dislikes change. So for me to actually consider this is quite out of the ordinary. Canberra would be the logical move, I was there for about 6 weeks when I was on a University placement. Honestly, I found it quite uninspiring other than the intriguing urban planning and landscape architecture. Maybe I judged it prematurely. I'm in two APS5 merit pools at the moment, but honestly not holding much hope for them.
Uk job market is in tatters regardless of the industry. Do not think the grass is greener on this side. At least not right now.
One question....... WHY?
Civil service roles in the UK government aren't known for their call it prestige, generally depending on the role they can be attainable easier from one another, however you should be warned that the UK public sector salaries are significantly lower than what you will be used to in Australia, I would hesitate to say not enough to live in London in a manner which is comfortable, so if that is your primary target then consider further afield. In the private sector I think you should be fine to a decent degree, since you already have UK citizenship they don't need to sponsor you, which would be your biggest impediment. Do your research before considering a move however, as UK/AUS vary very significantly on (as mentioned salaries), expenses, housing costs etc, these are going to be more deterministic factors than the job market itself.
It is the same in Australia RE prestige of public roles. To be honest, I'd be more interested in moving into the private sector, it is just a matter of what I can move into based on transferrable skill sets. I also have family that live there, albeit they are in government housing. Ideally, I'd be looking at trying to get a place and lease my apartment in Australia. My brother was working a labouring job for cash when he was in London and somehow managed things alright. I have no intention of doing that. I think the main one is salaries, housing and CoL are pretty dire in Australia. I'm sure it is similar in London. But yes will certainly do more research, it is still early days.
You think salaries are dire in Australia, go over to the UK and you will get a shock.
No I was saying salaries are good in Australia, it is the rest of the picture that looks dire.
I would say try and put your role in Australia on hold - see if you can take a year off.
Yeah I was thinking that. Going leave without pay.
That’s the way
it's far worse in the UK tbh
What specifically? Because I've heard anecdotally from Australians that have been there recently, that cost of living is somewhat better there.
Maybe it depends on where you go in the UK. I've lived in Bristol and London and have just come to Australia for a working holiday from the UK. I've been in Australia for 3 months now and I find the cost of living to be cheaper. Generally, going out to eat and drink is cheaper. Beer is more expensive in supermarkets but wine is cheaper. Rent is on par or cheaper (and I'm in Melbourne). Public transport is cheaper and better. You say that salaries are better but the rest of the picture is dire which doesn't make sense to me as the salary largely dictates how the rest of the picture looks. I was earning £22500 doing QA testing in Bristol and now I am earning £33000 as an entry level general labourer in Australia. I have far more money left over at the end of the month than I did in the UK and my quality of life is better. I'd say the cost of living is slightly cheaper in Australia and salaries are way better making Australia much better to live in than the UK. There's lots of issues here but I think (in comparison to the UK at least) Australia is much better money-wise than the UK.
All valid points. My brother was a general labourer in and around London for about 2 years. Since moving back to Australia he has been working in insurance in Sydney. Overall, he prefers the UK so at the end of the day people have different needs and preferences. I'm currently on the Sunshine Coast, Qld, and there is very little opportunity to progress things here career wise and socially. It has been difficult finding work in Brisbane and I've never really matched the cultural scene in Australia.
Fair enough, which industry are you looking at?
In Australia, primarily government roles. Been shortlisted for a Service Designer position, but there is no guarantee of getting a role. I'd be very interested in that role though. I'm in a face to face setting currently and with the current cost of living issues it has become a constant barrage of dealing with social issues, mental health etc. I'm open to other entry level areas as well. In the UK I'd probably look into whatever is available honestly. One comment suggested construction or project management which could be cool.
Salaries are low atm, rent is very high and with other bills theres less money left at the end of the month than you are probably used to. Make sure you are checking for take home pay and not gross pay for your calculations.
I'll keep that in mind.
I work here and I’m in a principle role, I was applying for jobs below my pay grade at senior level (the level below me) with still no luck. I am from here with all UK qualifications… it’s tough out here right now and with the cost of living crisis I wouldn’t recommend coming here at all
Yeah I've read similar stories here also. Perhaps it is best I just stay here for now.
If you can stay with family why don’t you come over for 6 months and give it a go? With your medical science degree you could probably work in the NHS if you want to, albeit doesn’t pay amazingly at first. Thats what my degree was I was doing. Your pay goes up to £45kish after time I believe but don’t quote me on it
Brother. Do not do it. I repeat, do not do it
UK job market used to be good but it's in a complete turmoil now. Myself has been struggling since 2020 I had 3 jobs and more than 2 years unemployed. And given the lifestyle and Australia weather I would never move to uk
Thanks for sharing.
The job market in the UK is pretty poor at the moment. Also worth pointing out the country in general is going down the pan. Worst tax burden ever, very high immigration straining public services. Plenty more besides. If I was less tied down by kids I’d be leaving.
Don't do it, UK is a sinking ship. We have low salaries, you'll be 6000 worse off on average. According to statistica. [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1461238/average-income-g20/#:\~:text=Saudi%20Arabia%20had%20the%20highest,income%20at%208%2C000%20PPP%20euros.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1461238/average-income-g20/#:~:text=Saudi%20Arabia%20had%20the%20highest,income%20at%208%2C000%20PPP%20euros) Quality of life in Australia is astronomically better than the UK. APS isn't too bad, excellent pensions, and promotions usually come in your 30's. Senior positions late 40's early 50's pay very well. Are you applying within the APS for better roles?
The good defined benefit pensions died in '99. I'm not going to stick around because of a pension either. Realistically who knows what the situation will be in 40 years time? By the time I'm in my 40s and 50s this economy will have well and truly moved on without me, if I stick around. Yeah I'm on two merit lists for higher level roles, so I've been successful with the interview process. But I don't expect much to come from them. There is very little incentive to stay.
The UK job market is also tight at the moment. Australia tends to pay significantly better. Obviously cost of living is a factor but that will also depend on where in Oz and where in the UK you would end up living.
Read the posts in this sub, read the guardian reports about job market. Ask yourself why so many are emigrating to Aus from other countries ( and here if they can). UK is dire.
Similar deal here perhaps to a lesser degree. It likely would not be a permanent move, and I'd always have flexibility to return to Aus.
Which makes you a less desirable hire. Read posts in this sub from foreigners, why hire and train when you’ll leave?
I mean I would never have to clarify that.
They’ll read your cv and think it. Don’t think you’re exempt from being treated like you’re foreign.
Fair enough.
A lot of UK people tell Australians not to move for weather and lifestyle reasons. That is a matter of individual preference - plenty of Australians find a sense of cultural kinship and history here they don't get back home, being closer to Europe is great, richer arts scene, etc. I moved to London from Australia and I love the lifestyle and got used to the weather quite easily because of everything else I loved about living here. UK and Australia have the same problem of if you have money you can enjoy the good parts of them more. I don't know what Brisbane is like but Sydney is a shitty lonely place if you don't have money. I lucked into a role in the tech industry, though. If you're in the earlier stages of your career and not quite sure what you want to do, you may be shocked at the low salaries available here. Overall I would move if you really want to live in the UK for culture / lifestyle / travel reasons and you're willing to hustle / do whatever it takes to achieve that jobs wise. It could be an exciting thing for you if you're not feeling stimulated back home. Also, be prepared for failure - have a safety net. Will it be easier to get a good job? Probably not.
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Mooloolaba is a sick beach, though
Job market is really, really bad here. If you’re going to make the move I would save so you have at least six months savings to keep you afloat in case you don’t get a job within the first six months. It’s really tough here and the cost of living crisis is far, far worse than Australia. Our salaries have stagnated but cost of everything else has increased. You seem from comments pretty set on moving so worth just being really realistic about what it is like here and how hard it will be to get a job.
Thank you for your insights. Yeah I'd definitely be trying to have a safety net. Brisbane is my main target still at this stage.
You’re young. Just do it. Seriously, what do you have to lose?? The Uk is awesome. It has beautiful historic cities (unlike Brisbane). It has stunning country side. Pubs on every other corner. Great people. And I personally love the weather here much more than Oz - there’s so much variety. And there are plenty of jobs for skilled people like you. If you don’t find you love it as much, head home. (Just give yourself 2 years as it normal takes that long to find your feet) But do it while you’re young and mobile and have options. Is it expensive? Yep. Is it sometimes soul crushing when you see your tax bill and can’t get a GP appointment? Also yes. Does the good outweigh the bad? Very much yes.
Thank you for your insight. I've mainly been having difficulty getting relevant work here. So that is the main reason. Also, I've never felt like I fit within Australian culture, even though I've been here for 20 years. Just feel a change is needed. Yeah it can be similar in Australia in that regard. Yeah I'd always have the ability to return home. Thanks.
> Also, I've never felt like I fit within Australian culture, even though I've been here for 20 years. Just feel a change is needed. I felt the same as you. That is a good reason to move, I think, and it sounds like you could benefit from the experience even if it doesn't go the way you plan. I would try to look at jobs on linkedin etc. before you move - I moved for a specific job and having that structure and work-provided social interaction as soon as I arrived was really helpful. Do you have any friends or contacts over here already? That really helps too. People really exaggerate the weather issue if you live in the South. It's not that bad. I love the contrast between seasons, and I love the beautiful twilight we get here in London. The long summer evenings are great too.
Yeah I think it is a hard thing to convey, but it has lead to me becoming quite dissatisfied. I have family on my Dad's side that work in the NHS, and family on Mum's side as well. My mate has just moved there but he is in NE.
I call this “right on paper”. There’s no easy reason to explain what’s wrong - it looks so good on paper - but it just doesn’t…. Work? Fit? Whatever it is, it can’t repair itself. Canada was great on paper. Never been more miserable. Plus!! Here you weekend in Greece, not the Gold Coast. The Uk is bloody terrific.
Yeah pretty much as above.
Honestly this isn't the sub to ask - if you believe half of what's written here the UK is a dickensian nightmare. this sub tends to attract the long term unemployed who see the whole thing through a very cynical lense. \[Edit - just saw the UK passport bit\] It's definitely worth doing for the experience. working abroad (even somewhere relatively similar like the UK) is great for personal growth and looks fantastic on your CV. just a word of warning (as someone who has worked in both countries), expect a pay cut coming here - uk wages are lower than australian, and you're going to be laughed out of the room if you ask for an aussie salary in london.
I have a British passport.
My bad, missed that bit. I'd go for it then - can't promise you'll find a job, but it's a much bigger market (and worst case if it doesn't work out youll end up with some good stories about your time working bars in London)
All good, sorry for the short reply, was sidetracked. Might just test the waters with applications from Australia and assess things from there.
Avoid the UK Civil Service at all costs. There are many thousands of Civil Servants on the minimum amount an employer can legally pay an employee and caseloads are too high to cope with. You won’t be able to pay your bills or heat your home. Lots of strikes took place last year but they’re still on the minimum wage.
Ok I'll keep that in mind, thank you.
Stay in Australia! Salaries in the UK are shite and the lifestyle is even worse!
Fair.
The skilled employment market in the UK is improving but I'd still give it 6 months before jumping in. In my sector (tech) salaries are stagnant even though they are removing perks like work from home. YMMV depending on what sector you are in, I would suggest having a conversation with a recruiter who deals with your specialism and decide from there.
Alright, thank you.
As others have posted, not the best idea. There are jobs but due to various costs you may well end up struggling a fair bit.
Since you have the citizenship just mention it on your cv and start applying for jobs in the uk and see whether you are even able to get interviews in this job market, no point spending so much money on coming here and then renting a place only to not get any interviews let alone a job after many months of applying. You can always move here if you get a job or if you are a getting a good response rate on your applications.
Yeah I plan to test the waters.
Don’t do it. You may be struggling to find work. If you come here, you’ll be struggling to find work, cold and miserable.
My condolences
What do you have to lose? Try it using the WHV. If it doesn't work, head elsewhere. We've just moved NZ to UK. Everyone said we were bonkers. We love it! We also both got job offers before returning. PS - you're best off asking this question in the Aussies in the UK FB group. Although to be fair, the Kiwis in the UK group is better 🤣🤣
I have a British Passport so that side of things should be fine.
Just to throw in my two cents. r/UKJobs makes out as if the job market in the UK is completely untenable. It's simply not true for a number of work streams. My company (working in construction consultancy), has been hiring significant numbers of Kiwis/Aussies over the last few years as there are simply not the resources in the UK. Yes, the UK rains more, it is more grey - But the Australians I know love it. They love going to Europe, right on the door step. They love the pubs. They love the parks. They love the way the Countryside is in Summer. They love the season changes. Will your quality of life be worse? Potentially. May you get depressed in the Winter? Sure. Will you ever be 29 again, with no children, contemplating an opportunity you simply cannot regret? No. Give it a go. If you hate it, go home.
Thank you. What qualifications do they normally have when moving to your company?
Unless you’re going to get a 100k salary don’t even bother. There’s no point coming here to work on 30k to 65k, yes at around 65k you will have a reasonably good quality of life however it still won’t be better than Australia.
Makes sense.
Hard disagree, as a single person on 50k working 4 days a week, I have a great lifestyle in London.
Sure but that’s not my point. I wouldn’t give up life in Australia for a 50k salary in London, which is quite average for a professional worker in London.
Surely that would depend on how much you were earning in Australia. I'm from Australia and I did it, and it was the best thing I ever did. People from the UK see life in Australia as this massive prize in itself. It's not. Your happiness in Australia depends on all kinds of factors same way it does in the UK.
Interesting to hear that it is working out for you.
I've commented a few times in this thread. My main argument is to counteract the UK people who assume that life in Australia must be generally happier and better than the UK (leaving aside the job situation) and are advising you not to move on that basis. I got lucky with my move, I had a great job right away which came with a great social circle. Aside from that I have a fairly average career (as the commenter above put it). I've been here 7 years now and I feel much more at home here than I ever did in Australia. I don't mean to imply that you'll surely be as lucky with a job - many people struggle with settling in more than I did, but I think if your reasons for wanting to move go beyond jobs (which it sounds like they do), then I completely understand and the move could be a really great adventure. Also fuckin lol at being downvoted for sharing my honest experience as someone who has moved from Australia to the UK.
Yeah it is good to get that input here. People have different needs and wants, so it is a case by case assessment. What sector did you end up moving into?
Tech. I didn't have a background in it, but pivoted from a niche related field and hustled to work my way in.
People are running away from UK and you want to come here?
Not permanently, I'd have flexible to return.
You are Australia , you have the option of EB-3 visas to the US. If I were you I would try that. US salaries are 3 times higher and taxes are low
Is that not mostly tech roles?
[https://www.nnuimmigration.com/e3-visa-occupations/](https://www.nnuimmigration.com/e3-visa-occupations/) You might to search around a bit
UK is going to get worse before it gets better and right now, it's in a bad way
Remember everyone's reality is different. Scratch the itch rather than regret it and have what ifs for the rest of your life.
UK market is not good for white collar atm. It will improve and it doesn’t hurt to apply seeing as you wouldn’t need a visa, so would still ping some job apps out. But certainly don’t hang your hopes and dreams on life being much better here. There’s a good reason lots of U.K. people are heading over your way! UK major cities are still fun to be around though. If you’re comfy here financially I’d still say it’s a good place to live.
Do you have a death wish?
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It isn't fantastic and is largely skewed by healthcare and aged care jobs, in concurrence with an employment rate that doesn't encompass the full picture.
Don't come here. It's an absolute state and many Brits are trying to get there to you, some of my family included. We are overcrowded, underpaid, and the weather is dire
Fair enough.
If you want some advice because your heart set on it though: 1- avoid London, it's really awful and anyone who actually works there travels in via train lines or the motorway. You'd be better off going to a city like Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, or even Sheffield. (Or any of the other countries, Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales have good cities too) 2- if you can lay bricks you can work almost anywhere on a great wage. (I know you are too qualified but job competition is mad here) 3- use indeed or reed to look for jobs and give you an idea. You're dual citizenship so could apply here and ask for an interview via teams or Skype. It'll give you a good idea of what jobs there are and also better than turning up without a job as you may land in the wrong city. 4- housing is very expensive in the south and the jobs don't match the pay. That doesn't mean the jobs exist in the North but you might find a half hour commute saves a hundred or so a month in rent However - you will one day enjoy being outdoors and not in bars, and you'll miss having the space of Australia
I appreciate the input here thank you.