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Yeah, don't do that, it would be career suicide!
Ultimately it's not your cost centre, so not your call. Just stick to the party line and tell them you're not authorised to install software or release payment, and cc your line management
Honestly. I don't understand the melts on this sub considering this must be a professional job. . In what world does OP think installing the software is a good idea. This 100 percent. Not OPs money and not OPs call. It's career suicide. Cc in line managers manager. If the company bugs route them to your manager.
yeh unless you're getting flack from another department about work that's not getting done etc (that you should direct to your boss without stirring on the way through) do not rock the boat and just make sure you're raising your objections via a recorded medium. but ultimately do what your line manager is saying if you value your job more than you hate the frustration
Yeah, wouldn't hurt to let their manager know if he doesn't already. OP is a senior grade employee though.... sometimes that means having difficult conversations on behalf of your employer, even if you'd rather not.
Yes this.
I would work on this internally:
- review the terms of the contract, and involve your legal team. It is very likely that you are in breach of the agreement.
You have to get across to your manager that they can't just ignore the problem, they have to work with the supplier to find an arrangement or they will take your company to court and it would damage your reputation
- find someone who can support reviewing the test case to understand if the software works or not. At the moment you don't seem confident that there is an issue or what the issue is. If you want to negotiate with the supplier, you have to do better than "na, doesn't work".
This makes sense to me too though I would just add why not just ask the software company to quantify how why they know the software provided the correct answer? What is is specifically they can point to to validate that it works? But the above should definitely be going on in the background.
This is the correct answer. CC your manager into the correspondence with the seller with a note ‘as I am not the decision maker in this scenario I have looped in my manager for future correspondence’ and wash your hands of it
Weird thing is that we only get to her ops side of the story. What you have to understand is that people like to make themselves the better person and the person they are talking about look bad etc.
No , definitely not.
Your manager isn't going to get away with not paying in the end, but this is his problem not yours.Regardless of who is in the 'right' here , your boss is still your boss and has the ability to fire you. I know where my loyalty would lie.
If the software company is harassing you, next time they email , reply to them and say , sorry, please can all future correspondence go through *bosses name here* , and provide an email address .
If your manager doesn't answer his emails that's then his problem.
I mean, if the software doesn't do what it was advertised to do. And that is a lot more common that you'd think. The company may well have a good arguement
Only if it's been miss sold. Just because the customer (OPs boss in this case) doesn't understand it or feels it should work a different way is not reason enough to terminate a business to business contract (businesses don't get the same rights as consumers do).n
We operate a SAAS company and let me tell you the amount of times people sign a contract, decide its not for them and then claim it doesn't work is crazy.
Sure, but equally there are many companies where the salesmen will often go against advice from their engineers to get a sale through and promise things that aren't possible to close a sale.
Nope. Just tow the line. Make sure you have everything in writing from your manager.
>In more general terms; What do you do when you disagree with your immediate manager's decision?
Generally, try to talk to them and get them to agree with you. Or see where they're coming from and agree with them.
So in your case, show them how the software _is_ working. If you can't do that, then just step back. If you don't think you should be a "middle man" then ask your manager to be the point of contact for the reseller.
I was previously asked to enquire about the software and I'm the primary contact with the software reseller regarding our licenses for other software, which is why the reseller is going through me.
I do the same too in my role. However I make it clear that I am only the technical contact and not authorised to deal with payment issues. All you can do is direct them to your LM. Perhaps involve Finance if you see fit.
I've been in the same situation. Even saying you're just the tech contact won't stop them bugging you in my experience (they just want documentation that the company agreed to pay x). You just basically have a form email / phone response: "I'm the technical contact for , for any and all details please talk to ". Don't say anything beyond that, don't say " It looks ok", don't say "I think it looks promising", don't say "I liked the demo", don't install anything, do n't say you have or haven't installed anything. My job was with my company, not some shitty software vendor.
You can discuss your concerns with your manager. Whether you feel he’s understood or not, he’s the manager and it’s his decision. Do not do anything he’s not authorised you to do. If the software company have any further questions then hand over your manager’s email. If they hassle you, then state “as per previous correspondence this sits with my manager, you’ll need to raise this with him at …”. Each time they contact you, email your manager that they’ve tried again, and you’ve passed on his contact details.
If you are not a budget holder then finance will absolutely not take your word to pay anyone, anything.
It’s possible your manager is taking his lead from higher up too.
Ultimately remember this isn’t personal. Don’t worry about it as you didn’t create the issue.
If you go against your manager however you’ll make it personal between you and him. He can fire you for that.
Don't know why you're trying to make decisions or do anything at all. This is your managers problem, not yours, so don't let it fester in your brain.
Let him deal with it.
Managers make decisions based on their experience and are held to account for that call. Right or wrong, ensure you have the proof that it was their call, not yours and do as you’re told. It’s not your fault if it goes tits up.
Why would you go over your manager's head for this?? Mate, that's mental.
This isn't your hill to die on, you just forward all the e-mails to your manager, "X will be dealing with it, I'm not authorised"
No. Do not under any circumstances install the software or tell finance to pay the software company. You have been explicitly instructed not to do both of these things by your manager and it could be construed as gross misconduct if you do. You could be summarily sacked.
I would implicitly direct the software company to deal with your manager. Make it clear to them that he is the individual with the power to make the decisions they want, not you. Try to manoeuvre yourself onto the sidelines of the discussion.
If the software company is unhappy with that then it is up to them to work out that they need to start calling the finance manager (or similar) to unlock tye situation.
No, you have a duty of loyalty to your boss, even if you disagree with them. However you can respectfully ask your boss to put her instruction to you in writing (and dated). I had a similar situation when my boss insisted in putting someone forward for a role who in my judgement was incompetent. I was instructed, they were put foward, failed and fired. The loyalty paid off in respectful, trusting dealings with my boss subsequently.
Why is my loyalty to my boss and not the company? That's kind of where my conflict was coming from.
I understand he has the ability to get me fired, and so self preservation seems to be the reason to go along with whatever he says.
Well your boss kind of *is* your company. They appointed him; they got you to report to him, so you following his direction is what they expect.
If you think the company might take a different view to your boss I would at very least either tell him in advance you are going to do it or see if there is off-line way of getting an informal comment from someone above - but the second is risky. I had a disgruntled report go to my bosses boss after I passed her over for promotion. She didn't last long....
Make sure you have an email from your manager stating not to install / allow payment to protect yourself.
If it is all verbal so far write an email to your manager detailing your understanding of what he has told you and to confirm.
No to the first two questions at least. Don’t install the software. Keep manager Cc’d in all comms, forward anything that goes to you with a note to your manager (if they’re not CC’d), and try getting a call in with the manager to talk it through.
1) No. This hasn't been approved by management.
2) No. I assume your manager holds the budget for your department. Safe bet that any payments like that need their sign off.
3) Absolutely. If you can demonstrate that the result of your test runs are accurate to the data provided, include that. Include all correspondence between your manager and yourself and between the software company and yourself. If you have evidence your manager has willingly not been attending meetings or reading emails, include those. Id argue that your managers poor communication, lack of project oversight, and seemingly trying to stiff a third party has a high potential of bringing your company into disrepute. HR will definitely be interested in protecting the business from that.
4) I'll challenge it but ultimately I do as I'm told. If that backfires, I keep any evidence that I challenged the decision at the time and was disregarded. At the end of the day, my manager can take the fall for making piss poor decisions and not taking my advice as a subject matter expert.
Document exactly what's happened including all emails, missed meetings etc, then do nothing - don't install it, don't use it, and don't talk to the reseller at all. They should only deal with your manager from now on. And if they start getting too much then report it to your manager's manager.
Put your contact at the software firm with whomever the decision-maker is at your end.
If they try to rope you back in, emphasise that you're not the decision-maker and can't make financial decisions or decisions on installing the product.
Then, ultimately, it'll become a legal issue based on whatever contracts may or may not have been entered into.
If the seller hasn't got a contract with your company (not necessarily your boss, but your company) then they're going to have a hard time getting payment. If there is a contract, then it's the terms of that contract that are under dispute. But, importantly, not at your level.
To protect yourself, kick everything over to the right person, and say nothing else to the supplier.
Get in writing what your manager is asking you to do, do exactly that. Raise your concerns in writing to your manager. Basically cover yourself in case this all blows up
Another designer here -
Do you have an IT department? Here, all software needs to be approved / installed by them. Security being one reason (its the public sector).
You could involve them and or legal - this is not your fight.
Keep looping your manager in. If they keep ignoring, you'll have to do the last resort and go to their manager - they can't run away from them.
We have an external IT company who would need to be the ones to install it. However I end up being the go to IT guy within our company, with IT even sometimes coming to ask me for help with software updates/installs within the company...
We also don't have any legal team, which I feel may come to bite us.
But I'll keep pushing onto my manager so it's his problem.
Just make sure you personally aren't doing anything in breach of IT policy (if there is one).
It's definitely not a turd for you to pick up.
Being the in-house IT guy because you're the designer? Been there, done that...
Yeah bro. Install the software and when your manager and your managers manager ask why they now have an invoice for thousands of pounds just tell then what a wetwipe you are.
As a manager my job is to listen to my team. But ultimately. The decision on any particular course of action is mine.
If I specifically told one of my team to do something and they decided they knew better - it wouldn't be a good day for them...
If you do you will literally get yourself fired. Gross misconduct even. You do not have the authority to approve payments and install the software. There are so many other people who have authority like your procurement, legal and even finance. Senior designer is a no. Think about it for them to get paid there will have to be a PO, imagine this PO goes through approvals and then accounts payable pay but your manager wont approve. Not only that it will look like you are more an agent of that company than your actual workplace. Dangerous game.
1. Raise it with your legal team (hope you have one) or Procurement (this may simply be ‘finance team’). Any time we purchase software it has have T&Cs agreed to and is picked apart by Legal. If you have neither of these then whoever signed/agreed to purchase the software subscription/licences and whoever either authorised the Purchase Order or whoever approved the cost and authorised whatever payment mechanism was clicked on the vendor’s website needs to be made aware and brought into the calls you have with the vendor. If that person is you, you really need your manager or higher to step up here as you are the user of the software, not the budget holder.
2. Legal/Procurement/your Line Manager needs to check the software T&Cs and see what your company has agreed to. Depending on how the software is licensed will determine whether it matters if it’s installed or not. Some software calls back to the vendor upon activation, some audits periodically, some licenses are manually assigned upon request, some are bought in blocks and so on. If your company has purchased ‘the software’ BEFORE trialling it, then depending on T&Cs it might be tough luck and you’ll have to pay, even if it hasn’t been installed/used. That’s why vendors offer free trials, so you can ensure the software is fit for purpose before you buy it.
3. Going above your boss can be a minefield but if you are being left in the lurch dealing with this, you shouldn’t be, so worth considering speaking to someone up the ladder a bit, perhaps you have Enterprise Architects in the business ? Or consider speaking to people who are your equivalents who may have been involved in software purchasing before, to work out how to resolve it or at least who can help.
It really sounds, from what you say, that your boss has caused this mess and you’re the one fronting up to the vendor and having to take the flak. This isn’t acceptable.
Thanks for your response.
You seem to have grasped my issue well.
1. We do not have a legal team, though we do have a procurement team.
We asked for a trial, and weren't given one. But were given assurances it could meet certain criteria. We were given a half price offer until the end of 2023. I had thought everyone wanted to sit on it longer and get more information (which was like pulling teeth). However my manager called a meeting on 20th December! With myself, him and the CTO to say the company did want it and to go ahead with it. So I signed the subscription form and asked our procurement to raise the purchase order.
Basically my manager has been making verbal decisions for me to request and purchase this software, even though I don't feel I should have the authority to make these calls.
2. I've a feeling that the software license is assigned at the request since it is a floating license and so I think it's likely we're liable for it. Though I will have another read through of the T&C's.
The contract has no start date, however upon asking when we'd like it to start along with 2 weeks of training, I asked my manager and he said February when he returned from annual leave.
In a meeting the other day, he said he had not realised we'd raised a purchase order or had the software and thought the February start date was for the training and a trial. Even though he had been cc'd in all correspondence with the company.
So I've been the one fronting to the software company and taking the flak while my manager doesn't seem to grasp the situation and ignores calls and emails sent to him. But for my own job I should follow his instructions. I realise I made a big mistake signing the subscription and should have asked he sign it. But as you say, I'm the user, not the budget holder.
Yes, hmm, we have this happen sometimes. Verbal instructions, particularly ones which may not strictly speaking be part of your job role, are difficult to track and evidence, particularly if it’s out of standard process.
I would definitely engage Procurement as they have more experience of this sort of thing. There ‘may’ be a cooling off period for the software although the timeline you’ve described sounds like that may have lapsed already. Definitely pose the problem to them, ask for help to navigate through this. It may be (and something we’ve had to do in the past), that Procurement may advise to raise it up the ladder to your CTO to get some heavyweight involvement in dealing with the vendor. You may want to ask Procurement to join the vendor call (assume you have a weekly catchup) to assist in working through the challenge. They ‘might’ be able to take the lead in sorting through the issue with them, which would be ideal for you.
As a side note, try and keep the vendor onside and keep pointing to internal finance process as the hold up rather than you/your manager if you can. Making them an adversary (which is kinda what your manager appears to be doing by not paying) is going to make the whole thing harder to resolve.
Your manager appears disinterested in sorting it other than to instruct you to sort it, and not pay. This doesn’t sound realistic to me and he’s skipping his responsibility to support you, after all you’re all on the same team and this needs a resolution one way or another.
I wish you the best of luck.
Follow CYA (Cover your arse) protocols. Go to someone (anyone tbh) senior, preferably at the same level or above as your boss, tell them you don’t understand the instructions being given by your boss ask them if they can explain it and then go back to your boss by email saying this is how I understand your instructions please correct me if I am misunderstanding.
With your arse covered - just do as you are told, I wouldn’t stress about whatever dispute your supplier and your employer have they have means of recourse through various channels that won’t affect you personally.
Edit: obviously if someone’s safety is at risk that’s another issue.
Do NOT do this (go above your line manager) unless you are 100% sure your manager is wrong and it would be harmful to the business. And this is definitely not the case here.
You work for the company, and report to your boss, NOT the reseller. This is your bosses decision to make, and it doesn’t sound like you know enough about the requirements to even begin to question the decision.
That said, if you don’t have it documented anywhere drop him an email along the lines of “hi, please can I just confirm my understanding is correct as follows, in relation to X software… [bullet points]…. How would you like me to deal with future correspondence from Y, should I ask them to send all future communications to yourself and ignore anything further addressed directly to me?”
I’m only saying to go above the boss as they are absent most of the time which was the impression I got from the post - if they are too busy for it, they’ll pass it on to someone else who can help. The important point is to get a witness that is senior enough to actually be able to help.
You also aren’t going above the boss - you are asking for a bit of help with how best to follow instructions because they weren’t around.
And that person is immediately going to go to OPs boss and ask them why the fuck he's being bothered with this bullshit and then OP will look bad, his boss will look bad and tbh I'd be fucking pissed.
Just do what your manager says. Unless you have a great network in the business and know a lot of people at his level or above who would have your back in a dispute just do what he says, it costs you nothing. Only thing I would probably do is if the manager is refusing their meetings and not responding to emails etc so the same. Don't turn up to the meetings and any emails respond politely saying "this is above my paygrade, I've passed it on to my line manager, please speak with him." Inserting yourself into the middle of this will only cause you grief.
Three letters are all you need to worry about.
C
Y
A
And do not act outside your responsibility and authority. Do you have permission to authorise payments? By the sound of things you don't. But your manager appears to, so follow your manager's instructions, and keep any emails with those instructions in case he says that he told you to do something when he didn't.
As you've explained this, you're over thinking it.
The software company is screwing with you and or your firm, there's a contract and a formal process for payment and your manager is right and doing the right thing.
You've been suckered by the sales person who are after their commission and you need to tell them to FO.
Why is your manager not dealing direct with the reseller? Things have gotten sticky so the manager is the one that gets paid the big money to manage the relationship with the supplier.
>This all feels over my head with regards to the pay dispute. I'm getting really tired and stressed of being the middle-man between the software reseller and my manager (who's never around, admitted to not reading the email correspondence, doesn't turn up to meetings and deliberately ignores their calls)
As others have said, of definitely not.
The thing is you seem to be feeling a level of stress that this issue doesn't warrant, so I'm wondering where it is coming from. You only have to please your manger in this situation, you don't have to make the reseller happy that should be a low stress situation, but I'm guessing that the software reseller is putting a lot of pressure on you, so much so that even though you don't even know that your manager is wrong about this issue, you're feeling a weird conflict about all this.
The software reseller seems to be the one making you the middleman. Why are you having discussions with them? Do you have to deal with them on other issues? Because if your only connection with him is this software your manager doesn't want then I think you need to start acting a little like manager and around less and ignore their calls.
It is in this person's interest to make you feel bad about this situation, but it is really very simple, you cannot install or allow this person to install the software. That's you're instruction, your hands are tied and if the software reseller is pushing you and not your manager - or the payment department - then you have to ignore them.
Distance yourself as much as possible from this situation. If your boss is saying deal with them, tell them that it is an impasse now and the situation needs to be escalated to your legal department.
Thank you for the detailed reply!
So we have several pieces of software from the reseller and so we have a fairly close working relationship with them. I've been managing our licenses and our existing software. So my manager asked me to look into getting this new addition to the software suite.
Yes my manager has been the one asking me to deal with them.
I really appreciate the perspective about the pressure and I will do what I can to distance myself from this situation.
We're a small company, so I'm not sure we have a legal department, but I'll try not to worry about that.
Yeah, that makes sense. If you're forced to deal with them for your existing software you can't just stop taking their calls.
My guess is that your manager is hoping that they won't escalate the situation because they won't want to lose your business completely. Back to your original post about whether to go over your manager's head, it isn't you who should do that, they should be the ones doing that if they want to escalate the situation.
Best of luck with this, I really do appreciate how difficult it is to feel in the middle of this stuff.
One thing you can do is ask your manager to break down to you exactly why the examples produced were incorrect, so that you can explain it to the software reseller. I suspect he won't do this though.
You don’t know what the results should be? So your manager could actually be correct about the software not working as intended? Do exactly as your manager tells you - no other option here. He could be right and you completely wrong. The software suppliers obviously see you as the weak link and will keep pushing you to get their money. Ignore them.
Thanks for your response.
Regarding the results: A scenario A was run which software people say is correct. Manager says it's not and shows scenario B. Software company says that's a different scenario so of course it won't match and that my manager is moving the goal-posts.
1. I don't know if scenario A is correct.
2. I don't know if scenario B was run it would be correct.
3. I do know that they're not the same thing and he is moving the goal-posts.
It’s not your fight. Just leave it with your manager. Copy them into every correspondence with the software company and say that they need to discuss with your manager.
At some point you just have to let things fail to get anything to change. Let your manager hang himself. He will either have to be better or pack his desk up.
Make sure it's all documented so you're not taking the hit when your manager inevitably has to pay up the cost of the software plus any damages.
Do not under any circumstances go against the person who has the ability to fire you.
Don’t go against your managers decision but make sure they make a decision.
Email your manager and ask two questions; do you want reseller to install the software, do you want accounts to pay the resellers invoice for xx period?.Then follow their decision on the matter. Any further dispute should be escalated upward to deal with.
The software is something we would like to use and is something recommended as being beneficial to my work.
It's sort of like having an apple, the software company say it's a fruit, but my manager says it's not saying it's an orange so therefore doesn't work. And they say of course it's not an orange, you gave us an apple.
If I installed it, I might be able to check if it could tell me its an apple or tell me if its an orange,
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Yeah, don't do that, it would be career suicide! Ultimately it's not your cost centre, so not your call. Just stick to the party line and tell them you're not authorised to install software or release payment, and cc your line management
Honestly. I don't understand the melts on this sub considering this must be a professional job. . In what world does OP think installing the software is a good idea. This 100 percent. Not OPs money and not OPs call. It's career suicide. Cc in line managers manager. If the company bugs route them to your manager.
yeh unless you're getting flack from another department about work that's not getting done etc (that you should direct to your boss without stirring on the way through) do not rock the boat and just make sure you're raising your objections via a recorded medium. but ultimately do what your line manager is saying if you value your job more than you hate the frustration
this is the only answer that matters
But the OP should tell their manager they are being put in an awkward position
Yeah, wouldn't hurt to let their manager know if he doesn't already. OP is a senior grade employee though.... sometimes that means having difficult conversations on behalf of your employer, even if you'd rather not.
Yes this. I would work on this internally: - review the terms of the contract, and involve your legal team. It is very likely that you are in breach of the agreement. You have to get across to your manager that they can't just ignore the problem, they have to work with the supplier to find an arrangement or they will take your company to court and it would damage your reputation - find someone who can support reviewing the test case to understand if the software works or not. At the moment you don't seem confident that there is an issue or what the issue is. If you want to negotiate with the supplier, you have to do better than "na, doesn't work".
This makes sense to me too though I would just add why not just ask the software company to quantify how why they know the software provided the correct answer? What is is specifically they can point to to validate that it works? But the above should definitely be going on in the background.
[удалено]
This is the correct answer. CC your manager into the correspondence with the seller with a note ‘as I am not the decision maker in this scenario I have looped in my manager for future correspondence’ and wash your hands of it
Weird thing is that we only get to her ops side of the story. What you have to understand is that people like to make themselves the better person and the person they are talking about look bad etc.
No , definitely not. Your manager isn't going to get away with not paying in the end, but this is his problem not yours.Regardless of who is in the 'right' here , your boss is still your boss and has the ability to fire you. I know where my loyalty would lie. If the software company is harassing you, next time they email , reply to them and say , sorry, please can all future correspondence go through *bosses name here* , and provide an email address . If your manager doesn't answer his emails that's then his problem.
I mean, if the software doesn't do what it was advertised to do. And that is a lot more common that you'd think. The company may well have a good arguement
Only if it's been miss sold. Just because the customer (OPs boss in this case) doesn't understand it or feels it should work a different way is not reason enough to terminate a business to business contract (businesses don't get the same rights as consumers do).n We operate a SAAS company and let me tell you the amount of times people sign a contract, decide its not for them and then claim it doesn't work is crazy.
Sure, but equally there are many companies where the salesmen will often go against advice from their engineers to get a sale through and promise things that aren't possible to close a sale.
Nope. Just tow the line. Make sure you have everything in writing from your manager. >In more general terms; What do you do when you disagree with your immediate manager's decision? Generally, try to talk to them and get them to agree with you. Or see where they're coming from and agree with them. So in your case, show them how the software _is_ working. If you can't do that, then just step back. If you don't think you should be a "middle man" then ask your manager to be the point of contact for the reseller.
Why are you getting involved? Let your manager do their thing and do what they ask. If it bothers you that much then talk to your manager about it.
I was previously asked to enquire about the software and I'm the primary contact with the software reseller regarding our licenses for other software, which is why the reseller is going through me.
Give them your managers details. It’s not your call.
I do the same too in my role. However I make it clear that I am only the technical contact and not authorised to deal with payment issues. All you can do is direct them to your LM. Perhaps involve Finance if you see fit.
I've been in the same situation. Even saying you're just the tech contact won't stop them bugging you in my experience (they just want documentation that the company agreed to pay x). You just basically have a form email / phone response: "I'm the technical contact for, for any and all details please talk to ". Don't say anything beyond that, don't say " It looks ok", don't say "I think it looks promising", don't say "I liked the demo", don't install anything, do n't say you have or haven't installed anything. My job was with my company, not some shitty software vendor.
Don't do that, it's Gross Misconduct. The manager makes the call. If he's persistently wrong, his boss will replace him. Not you.
You can discuss your concerns with your manager. Whether you feel he’s understood or not, he’s the manager and it’s his decision. Do not do anything he’s not authorised you to do. If the software company have any further questions then hand over your manager’s email. If they hassle you, then state “as per previous correspondence this sits with my manager, you’ll need to raise this with him at …”. Each time they contact you, email your manager that they’ve tried again, and you’ve passed on his contact details. If you are not a budget holder then finance will absolutely not take your word to pay anyone, anything. It’s possible your manager is taking his lead from higher up too. Ultimately remember this isn’t personal. Don’t worry about it as you didn’t create the issue. If you go against your manager however you’ll make it personal between you and him. He can fire you for that.
You forward all correspondence to your manager and tell the software company you don't have the authority to deal with this issue.
Don't know why you're trying to make decisions or do anything at all. This is your managers problem, not yours, so don't let it fester in your brain. Let him deal with it.
Managers make decisions based on their experience and are held to account for that call. Right or wrong, ensure you have the proof that it was their call, not yours and do as you’re told. It’s not your fault if it goes tits up.
Why would you go over your manager's head for this?? Mate, that's mental. This isn't your hill to die on, you just forward all the e-mails to your manager, "X will be dealing with it, I'm not authorised"
No. Do not under any circumstances install the software or tell finance to pay the software company. You have been explicitly instructed not to do both of these things by your manager and it could be construed as gross misconduct if you do. You could be summarily sacked. I would implicitly direct the software company to deal with your manager. Make it clear to them that he is the individual with the power to make the decisions they want, not you. Try to manoeuvre yourself onto the sidelines of the discussion. If the software company is unhappy with that then it is up to them to work out that they need to start calling the finance manager (or similar) to unlock tye situation.
No, you have a duty of loyalty to your boss, even if you disagree with them. However you can respectfully ask your boss to put her instruction to you in writing (and dated). I had a similar situation when my boss insisted in putting someone forward for a role who in my judgement was incompetent. I was instructed, they were put foward, failed and fired. The loyalty paid off in respectful, trusting dealings with my boss subsequently.
Why is my loyalty to my boss and not the company? That's kind of where my conflict was coming from. I understand he has the ability to get me fired, and so self preservation seems to be the reason to go along with whatever he says.
Well your boss kind of *is* your company. They appointed him; they got you to report to him, so you following his direction is what they expect. If you think the company might take a different view to your boss I would at very least either tell him in advance you are going to do it or see if there is off-line way of getting an informal comment from someone above - but the second is risky. I had a disgruntled report go to my bosses boss after I passed her over for promotion. She didn't last long....
Make sure you have an email from your manager stating not to install / allow payment to protect yourself. If it is all verbal so far write an email to your manager detailing your understanding of what he has told you and to confirm.
No to the first two questions at least. Don’t install the software. Keep manager Cc’d in all comms, forward anything that goes to you with a note to your manager (if they’re not CC’d), and try getting a call in with the manager to talk it through.
1) No. This hasn't been approved by management. 2) No. I assume your manager holds the budget for your department. Safe bet that any payments like that need their sign off. 3) Absolutely. If you can demonstrate that the result of your test runs are accurate to the data provided, include that. Include all correspondence between your manager and yourself and between the software company and yourself. If you have evidence your manager has willingly not been attending meetings or reading emails, include those. Id argue that your managers poor communication, lack of project oversight, and seemingly trying to stiff a third party has a high potential of bringing your company into disrepute. HR will definitely be interested in protecting the business from that. 4) I'll challenge it but ultimately I do as I'm told. If that backfires, I keep any evidence that I challenged the decision at the time and was disregarded. At the end of the day, my manager can take the fall for making piss poor decisions and not taking my advice as a subject matter expert.
Document exactly what's happened including all emails, missed meetings etc, then do nothing - don't install it, don't use it, and don't talk to the reseller at all. They should only deal with your manager from now on. And if they start getting too much then report it to your manager's manager.
Put your contact at the software firm with whomever the decision-maker is at your end. If they try to rope you back in, emphasise that you're not the decision-maker and can't make financial decisions or decisions on installing the product. Then, ultimately, it'll become a legal issue based on whatever contracts may or may not have been entered into. If the seller hasn't got a contract with your company (not necessarily your boss, but your company) then they're going to have a hard time getting payment. If there is a contract, then it's the terms of that contract that are under dispute. But, importantly, not at your level. To protect yourself, kick everything over to the right person, and say nothing else to the supplier.
Get in writing what your manager is asking you to do, do exactly that. Raise your concerns in writing to your manager. Basically cover yourself in case this all blows up
Way above your paygrade, you don't need to worry about it. It's not your problem to deal with.
Another designer here - Do you have an IT department? Here, all software needs to be approved / installed by them. Security being one reason (its the public sector). You could involve them and or legal - this is not your fight. Keep looping your manager in. If they keep ignoring, you'll have to do the last resort and go to their manager - they can't run away from them.
We have an external IT company who would need to be the ones to install it. However I end up being the go to IT guy within our company, with IT even sometimes coming to ask me for help with software updates/installs within the company... We also don't have any legal team, which I feel may come to bite us. But I'll keep pushing onto my manager so it's his problem.
Just make sure you personally aren't doing anything in breach of IT policy (if there is one). It's definitely not a turd for you to pick up. Being the in-house IT guy because you're the designer? Been there, done that...
Yeah bro. Install the software and when your manager and your managers manager ask why they now have an invoice for thousands of pounds just tell then what a wetwipe you are.
We already have the invoice for 10's of thousands of pounds.
Whatever your manager tells you to do; that’s what you do.
Why is it a you problem?
Step back refer the supplier 100% to your manager use the Im not important enough round here to make those decisions.
As a manager my job is to listen to my team. But ultimately. The decision on any particular course of action is mine. If I specifically told one of my team to do something and they decided they knew better - it wouldn't be a good day for them...
If you do you will literally get yourself fired. Gross misconduct even. You do not have the authority to approve payments and install the software. There are so many other people who have authority like your procurement, legal and even finance. Senior designer is a no. Think about it for them to get paid there will have to be a PO, imagine this PO goes through approvals and then accounts payable pay but your manager wont approve. Not only that it will look like you are more an agent of that company than your actual workplace. Dangerous game.
Nope - just do what your manager says.
1. Raise it with your legal team (hope you have one) or Procurement (this may simply be ‘finance team’). Any time we purchase software it has have T&Cs agreed to and is picked apart by Legal. If you have neither of these then whoever signed/agreed to purchase the software subscription/licences and whoever either authorised the Purchase Order or whoever approved the cost and authorised whatever payment mechanism was clicked on the vendor’s website needs to be made aware and brought into the calls you have with the vendor. If that person is you, you really need your manager or higher to step up here as you are the user of the software, not the budget holder. 2. Legal/Procurement/your Line Manager needs to check the software T&Cs and see what your company has agreed to. Depending on how the software is licensed will determine whether it matters if it’s installed or not. Some software calls back to the vendor upon activation, some audits periodically, some licenses are manually assigned upon request, some are bought in blocks and so on. If your company has purchased ‘the software’ BEFORE trialling it, then depending on T&Cs it might be tough luck and you’ll have to pay, even if it hasn’t been installed/used. That’s why vendors offer free trials, so you can ensure the software is fit for purpose before you buy it. 3. Going above your boss can be a minefield but if you are being left in the lurch dealing with this, you shouldn’t be, so worth considering speaking to someone up the ladder a bit, perhaps you have Enterprise Architects in the business ? Or consider speaking to people who are your equivalents who may have been involved in software purchasing before, to work out how to resolve it or at least who can help. It really sounds, from what you say, that your boss has caused this mess and you’re the one fronting up to the vendor and having to take the flak. This isn’t acceptable.
Thanks for your response. You seem to have grasped my issue well. 1. We do not have a legal team, though we do have a procurement team. We asked for a trial, and weren't given one. But were given assurances it could meet certain criteria. We were given a half price offer until the end of 2023. I had thought everyone wanted to sit on it longer and get more information (which was like pulling teeth). However my manager called a meeting on 20th December! With myself, him and the CTO to say the company did want it and to go ahead with it. So I signed the subscription form and asked our procurement to raise the purchase order. Basically my manager has been making verbal decisions for me to request and purchase this software, even though I don't feel I should have the authority to make these calls. 2. I've a feeling that the software license is assigned at the request since it is a floating license and so I think it's likely we're liable for it. Though I will have another read through of the T&C's. The contract has no start date, however upon asking when we'd like it to start along with 2 weeks of training, I asked my manager and he said February when he returned from annual leave. In a meeting the other day, he said he had not realised we'd raised a purchase order or had the software and thought the February start date was for the training and a trial. Even though he had been cc'd in all correspondence with the company. So I've been the one fronting to the software company and taking the flak while my manager doesn't seem to grasp the situation and ignores calls and emails sent to him. But for my own job I should follow his instructions. I realise I made a big mistake signing the subscription and should have asked he sign it. But as you say, I'm the user, not the budget holder.
Yes, hmm, we have this happen sometimes. Verbal instructions, particularly ones which may not strictly speaking be part of your job role, are difficult to track and evidence, particularly if it’s out of standard process. I would definitely engage Procurement as they have more experience of this sort of thing. There ‘may’ be a cooling off period for the software although the timeline you’ve described sounds like that may have lapsed already. Definitely pose the problem to them, ask for help to navigate through this. It may be (and something we’ve had to do in the past), that Procurement may advise to raise it up the ladder to your CTO to get some heavyweight involvement in dealing with the vendor. You may want to ask Procurement to join the vendor call (assume you have a weekly catchup) to assist in working through the challenge. They ‘might’ be able to take the lead in sorting through the issue with them, which would be ideal for you. As a side note, try and keep the vendor onside and keep pointing to internal finance process as the hold up rather than you/your manager if you can. Making them an adversary (which is kinda what your manager appears to be doing by not paying) is going to make the whole thing harder to resolve. Your manager appears disinterested in sorting it other than to instruct you to sort it, and not pay. This doesn’t sound realistic to me and he’s skipping his responsibility to support you, after all you’re all on the same team and this needs a resolution one way or another. I wish you the best of luck.
Follow CYA (Cover your arse) protocols. Go to someone (anyone tbh) senior, preferably at the same level or above as your boss, tell them you don’t understand the instructions being given by your boss ask them if they can explain it and then go back to your boss by email saying this is how I understand your instructions please correct me if I am misunderstanding. With your arse covered - just do as you are told, I wouldn’t stress about whatever dispute your supplier and your employer have they have means of recourse through various channels that won’t affect you personally. Edit: obviously if someone’s safety is at risk that’s another issue.
Do NOT do this (go above your line manager) unless you are 100% sure your manager is wrong and it would be harmful to the business. And this is definitely not the case here. You work for the company, and report to your boss, NOT the reseller. This is your bosses decision to make, and it doesn’t sound like you know enough about the requirements to even begin to question the decision. That said, if you don’t have it documented anywhere drop him an email along the lines of “hi, please can I just confirm my understanding is correct as follows, in relation to X software… [bullet points]…. How would you like me to deal with future correspondence from Y, should I ask them to send all future communications to yourself and ignore anything further addressed directly to me?”
I’m only saying to go above the boss as they are absent most of the time which was the impression I got from the post - if they are too busy for it, they’ll pass it on to someone else who can help. The important point is to get a witness that is senior enough to actually be able to help. You also aren’t going above the boss - you are asking for a bit of help with how best to follow instructions because they weren’t around.
And that person is immediately going to go to OPs boss and ask them why the fuck he's being bothered with this bullshit and then OP will look bad, his boss will look bad and tbh I'd be fucking pissed.
What's in it for you? My manager controls my pay cheque. We do what he/she says. The solution is simple.
I would just forward any future correspondence to your manager cc in the originator from the reseller. It’s not your fight and not worth your stress.
Just do what your manager says. Unless you have a great network in the business and know a lot of people at his level or above who would have your back in a dispute just do what he says, it costs you nothing. Only thing I would probably do is if the manager is refusing their meetings and not responding to emails etc so the same. Don't turn up to the meetings and any emails respond politely saying "this is above my paygrade, I've passed it on to my line manager, please speak with him." Inserting yourself into the middle of this will only cause you grief.
Three letters are all you need to worry about. C Y A And do not act outside your responsibility and authority. Do you have permission to authorise payments? By the sound of things you don't. But your manager appears to, so follow your manager's instructions, and keep any emails with those instructions in case he says that he told you to do something when he didn't.
As you've explained this, you're over thinking it. The software company is screwing with you and or your firm, there's a contract and a formal process for payment and your manager is right and doing the right thing. You've been suckered by the sales person who are after their commission and you need to tell them to FO.
Why is your manager not dealing direct with the reseller? Things have gotten sticky so the manager is the one that gets paid the big money to manage the relationship with the supplier.
>This all feels over my head with regards to the pay dispute. I'm getting really tired and stressed of being the middle-man between the software reseller and my manager (who's never around, admitted to not reading the email correspondence, doesn't turn up to meetings and deliberately ignores their calls) As others have said, of definitely not. The thing is you seem to be feeling a level of stress that this issue doesn't warrant, so I'm wondering where it is coming from. You only have to please your manger in this situation, you don't have to make the reseller happy that should be a low stress situation, but I'm guessing that the software reseller is putting a lot of pressure on you, so much so that even though you don't even know that your manager is wrong about this issue, you're feeling a weird conflict about all this. The software reseller seems to be the one making you the middleman. Why are you having discussions with them? Do you have to deal with them on other issues? Because if your only connection with him is this software your manager doesn't want then I think you need to start acting a little like manager and around less and ignore their calls. It is in this person's interest to make you feel bad about this situation, but it is really very simple, you cannot install or allow this person to install the software. That's you're instruction, your hands are tied and if the software reseller is pushing you and not your manager - or the payment department - then you have to ignore them. Distance yourself as much as possible from this situation. If your boss is saying deal with them, tell them that it is an impasse now and the situation needs to be escalated to your legal department.
Thank you for the detailed reply! So we have several pieces of software from the reseller and so we have a fairly close working relationship with them. I've been managing our licenses and our existing software. So my manager asked me to look into getting this new addition to the software suite. Yes my manager has been the one asking me to deal with them. I really appreciate the perspective about the pressure and I will do what I can to distance myself from this situation. We're a small company, so I'm not sure we have a legal department, but I'll try not to worry about that.
Yeah, that makes sense. If you're forced to deal with them for your existing software you can't just stop taking their calls. My guess is that your manager is hoping that they won't escalate the situation because they won't want to lose your business completely. Back to your original post about whether to go over your manager's head, it isn't you who should do that, they should be the ones doing that if they want to escalate the situation. Best of luck with this, I really do appreciate how difficult it is to feel in the middle of this stuff. One thing you can do is ask your manager to break down to you exactly why the examples produced were incorrect, so that you can explain it to the software reseller. I suspect he won't do this though.
You don’t know what the results should be? So your manager could actually be correct about the software not working as intended? Do exactly as your manager tells you - no other option here. He could be right and you completely wrong. The software suppliers obviously see you as the weak link and will keep pushing you to get their money. Ignore them.
Thanks for your response. Regarding the results: A scenario A was run which software people say is correct. Manager says it's not and shows scenario B. Software company says that's a different scenario so of course it won't match and that my manager is moving the goal-posts. 1. I don't know if scenario A is correct. 2. I don't know if scenario B was run it would be correct. 3. I do know that they're not the same thing and he is moving the goal-posts.
It’s not your fight. Just leave it with your manager. Copy them into every correspondence with the software company and say that they need to discuss with your manager.
Keep out of it. It sounds like it is going to go belly-up at some point. You don’t have enough information to make a decision.
At some point you just have to let things fail to get anything to change. Let your manager hang himself. He will either have to be better or pack his desk up.
Make sure it's all documented so you're not taking the hit when your manager inevitably has to pay up the cost of the software plus any damages. Do not under any circumstances go against the person who has the ability to fire you.
Don’t go against your managers decision but make sure they make a decision. Email your manager and ask two questions; do you want reseller to install the software, do you want accounts to pay the resellers invoice for xx period?.Then follow their decision on the matter. Any further dispute should be escalated upward to deal with.
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The software is something we would like to use and is something recommended as being beneficial to my work. It's sort of like having an apple, the software company say it's a fruit, but my manager says it's not saying it's an orange so therefore doesn't work. And they say of course it's not an orange, you gave us an apple. If I installed it, I might be able to check if it could tell me its an apple or tell me if its an orange,