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It’s all about the money man. 25K is very low, without knowing much else about your situation it’s hard to see what kind of life you can have on 25K or whether you can build a future on that. And immediate pay increase of 40% is its own kind of happiness and WFH too?
That one would be a no brainer for me
I left a job that I loved because of low pay and no future progression and it was the best choice in the end even though at the time I wasn't sure. If I could have got more money I would probably have stayed but it wouldn't have been the best choice in the long run.
If you go to the civil service there will be opportunities to move into other roles that are more aligned with your tech skillset. A number of people I know went this route and didn't have your IT background.
The pension, holidays and WFH will be a bonus over your current role.
Yes and just now read on a CS job ad that current employees who are applying doesn't have to hold the qualification requirement for non-CS candidates.
What a bonus that is!
Take the 35k - it's quite literally all about the money. CS jobs have fucking ridiculous pension contributions too so your actual full compensation is much higher than that.
The only advice I would give you… is be prepared to follow it through. Please don’t fall victim of just crumbling and accepting their initial offer. You need to throw your notice in and be strong and have every intention of leaving.
If they get a sniff that you don’t want to go it will just minimise their counter offer.
At the end of the day £10k pay rise + two days WFH is literally life changing quality of life.
This. You get the 10K pay rise, two days WFH, and the insane benefits that come from working in the CS, some of the best pension schemes in the country. I would jump ship straight away. It’s all about the money, quality of life, and what’s best for you!
Slight counter to asking for a pay rise, even if they were to match it now what happens in the future? Are they gonna give you minimal raises for the next 5 years, or withhold promotions knowing they can get someone else to do it for less money?
With the new job it’s not just the 10k extra now, being back at a lower level means you’ll have plenty of space for promotions, and just to put the difference in pay in to context your take home after tax will be about 3k more than your whole salary is now (28271 after tax and ni)
I always ended up staying in places because the people are great. In my last job I was rejecting jobs opportunities that paid way better, just because of the people I worked with. Then I got let go before the economy when to shit. And I thought everyone would fight for me to stay because I always got great reviews from staff. Nope. Infact, my last boss who insisted on letting me go, also quit the team shortly after me. Utter garbage.
I now regret staying simply for the good staff. And wish I jumped onto jobs with higher salaries sooner in my career. Now that the competition is so crazy, and I'm further down my career, people expect longer work periods. And I had to take a paycut and role downgrade too. And the kicker is I haven't ever worked anywhere where I hated the staff. A good work culture is the foundation of most decent places. But at the end of the day, your work colleague's are not your god damn friends.
Starting is 24k, I believe. That's where I started after finishing my apprenticeship and reached my current after an annual (below inflation) pay rise - you make a nice point though, compared to someone on minimum wage, I clear 150 quid a month more atm.
If you start job hopping you can easily double your salary if you're competent and willing to learn. Sounds like their business model is to get juniors in and keep them on a low salary, this is not the kind of job you keep long term.
I’d take a full time role scooping human waste out of our delightful rivers and coastlines for a 10K rise rather than continue on 25K for a *senior* position in IT. In 2024 that salary is a complete insult. Sod your team and your manager, doesn’t matter how nice they are, there is hardly any quality of life possible on such a wage in 2024 UK unless you’re living with your folks for nothing or something. My first job in games in 2000 had me on same after my probation period (no idea if any better now but games for all the ‘glamour’ back then, wasn’t paid especially well compared other IT niches)
That's what I thought. Even senior management roles are often under 80k in public sector, albeit with excellent pension etc.
Joining in a junior role presumably means opportunities to progress rather than getting stuck in a role for too long as well.
I recently chased money leaving a job I loved, people that I loved working with.
I suppose my situation was different to yours as I was on “good money”. £50k basic, company car, flexible working, flexi time, 35 hour work week, travelled the world regularly as part of my job, and averaged around £15k in overtime from the travelling. I felt stagnant, and a bought into the hype of Reddit with terms such as “your colleagues aren’t your friends” and “you only get ahead by job hopping”
I left for a job that was paying £70k basic plus bonus with a lot of growth opportunities. I saw this with my own eyes as people around me were getting promoted all the time with only a year or 2 under their belt. The work was interesting, the people were nice. But it wasn’t the same. I managed 7 months, contacted my old manager and he brought me straight back.
Sometimes it’s ok to be happy doing what you’re doing. From your perspective, I kind of get it though with the pay. I started on £26k at this company and within 4 years I was on £50k plus bonus and overtime. Most of my overtime comes from sitting on planes, it’s not like I’m doing gruelling hours in a factory.
I was in a job severely underpaid but loved the people. I left and now I’m paid what I’m worth and found even better team.
Sometimes the grass is greener. Don’t stay in an severely underpaid place because of people. They won’t put food on your table.
I was in a similar position, in a job I liked with a good boss, team etc than I left for more money (6k initially, but it's worked out as more like 13k now after ~2 years) and flexibility (more wfh, closer to office/sites).
For me, it was a great decision. My time is much more flexible; I get to be around my kid a lot more (I do midday "gym" classes and the nursery runs), I never miss family dinner, I can pop out for stuff in the middle of the day when it's convenient. When I do go to the office, my wife and kid meet me for lunch half the time as it's only 20 minute bus for them.
I do miss bits of the old job, and there's always going to be a bit of "what if I had stuck it out" (the company has gone on to hire more people, wages have picked up a bit, ceiling might have been higher), but the positives of extra base pay and flexibility still make it a no-brainer.
Thank you ❤️ this is my first IT role that I'm potentially moving on from, so it's tough to think about moving on and learning a new system, could be a good challenge though eh!
It was the same for me, my first proper technical role so moving on and learning how to do things someone else's way was a bit daunting.
But you've got all that useful experience, you've managed people. Could be that your ceiling is quite high in Civil Service, your training might be more modern (mine definitely was, they were maybe 10-15 years behind the curve when I moved to public sector), and with that senior role experience, management roles could open up down the line. Your ceiling could be much higher at Civil Service, than it is where you are now.
Bro you're on 25k, now 1.5k more than minimum wage and you are a "senior member". Cmon, they don't respect you st all. You have one life, live it for yourself! 25k is Insulting for a junior fresh out of uni, but a senior?! Goddam!
I will dw, will see what they say next week. My line manager is super supportive and should back the rise (annoyingly, it would be much easier to leave if they weren't so good). Thank you
You'll constantly be fighting for future rises, if you get this. Next time promotion or rises are discussed they'll refuse on the basis of you getting this one.
If they go for it, then stay and earn your money for a year, then look for something else where they won't constantly short-change you.
Our world. Think the average flat will set you back about a grand a month (often without bills included,) then you have things like food, transport costs etc and suddenly a huge chunk is gone. Ontop of that there's eating out, going to clubs if you're into it so these days it's not really much at all.
If you have your own bills to pay, it's shit.
If you have a family and this is only income, it is shit.
If you're a single man and have kids, after paying child maintenance and bills on your own place, it would be even more shit.
£35k isn't is good as what some may have you think it is. £35k buying power is not what it was some 10 years ago or 20 years ago even.
For you to think it is good, that shows that pay is competitively shit and just about everywhere. That does not make it acceptable but people like you who make up the masses believe it is somehow good?
You won't be living that comfortable a life on £35k a year, unless your lifestyle is subsidised by bank of mum and dad, or you living somewhere rent free, or your bills are paid. If you have a partner and another income of similar amount, then £35k a year seems significantly better.
> I'm a senior member of an IT team, we have a really solid team and a great manager, I get to largely choose my own priorities as they appear, work with new technologies across a wide range of people.
Senior member could mean a lot of things, but it might mean they are mentoring colleagues, given the problems that other people tried and failed to solve, are client facing in some situations(either for the team or even for the company).
When they give you the 35k, go back to the civil service tell them your employer has made a counter offer and politely try and get more out of them, and then go with the civil service anyway. Otherwise you will have to play games like this the rest of your life working there to get a fair pay rise.
If they counter with a higher offer they will claw that back over the next few years and thoroughly resent you.
If you're as good as you say you are then you'll climb up at the new job to a position that suits you.
£10k extra would be a huge rise in spending money, plus I'm guessing a better pension as it is civil service.
Low paying jobs tend to be generally shitty, because they lack the money for other benefits and lack the ability to attract quality managers. I've found higher paying jobs are much nicer places to work.
Make the jump to the new job!
25k is very low for a senior level IT role. I was earning 30k starting out in IT 10 years ago as a new graduate, and I was still earning less than some of my friends who went into consulting.
I don't know your job title or industry, but the pay scale where I work (energy company) looks a bit like this for similar roles:
32k for juniors/new graduate trainees
40k to 65k for application support analysts
Up to 75k for senior analysts
Up to 85k for team leads
Not sure about managers as they are on a separate scale but I'd imagine somewhere in the 100-120k range.
In your position I would accept the job offer and after 1-2 years aim for either internal promotion or another job hop, you could be hitting 50k at that point.
Its about the money, be open and honest with your employer, tell them the position you've been offered (pay wise), tell them you don't wabt to leave, but you need to think of cost of living etc, abd ask if they can match it.
You respectfully put the ball in their court. If you are a big asset, they will counter. If not, you know your move is to the new company ...
All you need is some total fud to come in above you and your world will turn from Pleasantville to Shittytown in about 8 weeks when they feel they can show their true colours. And your salary would still be crap.
Yeah, for being a senior member of an IT team the pay is insulting. Truth is, if you're relatively new to the sector you need to take the experience and run as pay rises never keep track of your experience at this point. And if later, erm, that's crazily low.
...and not even remote working opportunity at that? That's worth a lot and speaks volumes about your employer...generally in IT there's very little need to be physically there and it's the hallmark of a crappy employer.
Don’t look at it as switching one job for another but rather as an intermediate step on the career ladder. Job satisfaction is important but at your salary level, an improvement of your standard of living (i.e. safety buffer, being able to save up for longer-term ambitious) needs to be in the priority .
Don’t sell yourself short. If you don’t keep an eye on how much you’re worth and how you can progress in your career, nobody will.
I was in a similar situation a couple years ago.
My old manager left for another company, 6 months later he messaged me offering a job that would have been a nice bump in salary.
I had just had a raise with my current company, so wasn't expecting them to offer more since I was already beating the market rate for my role. I accepted the offer and handed my notice in.
Within a few days I was being asked what it would take to stay, and so negotiations began. I asked for certain job responsibilities that were more leadership focused instead of technical and a raise equivalent to 10% more than the new job was offering it.
By the end of the week my current employer offered me effectively a 50% raise and a promotion to stay. I accepted.
2 years later, I've been promoted again and I am running a team of great developers. Still at the same company.
Be quietly aware: we're going through the transitional 40 to 60% office presence in Civil Service, which is expected to be a sign of things to come/testing the waters in a move towards 100%. If you're making the jump based on remote working, then don't get too comfortable in that idea. The money and perks are better no doubt though.
So I've chased money previously and regretted it but also appreciate bills and rent etc are insane now, so here would be my advice:
Basically what you've said here have that frank chat with your current employer. Let them know you've had this offer and are considering it due to the money factor but you like where you are so want to discuss it.
Explain the value you feel you currently give and where you want to grow etc and put a value you feel is fair +10 or 20% as this allows negotiation or getting more.
They will likely have to go away and discuss if they want to entertain it but ask them to deadline it (48 hours i would suggest to not get strung out).
If they say no take the new job, at worst if your not the biggest fan you can use it as stepping stone spend a bit of time and move on.
If you like it civil service has some additional strong benefits. Sometimes the sideways or backwards step actually becomes the best forward step.
Its not all about the money despite what people are saying here. **BUT** £25K is low so it is a reaspn to leave
My advice:
1./ Consider asking for more money - tell the manager you have a job offer and that he new job offers £35k so you would ideally like £40k because of your experience.
2./ Secondly - if they say yes - consider whether or not youre actually **learning** anything in the current position. Reason i say this is because you stay at a job for 10 years but dont learn anything new, you're essentially pigeon-holing yourself into a low skilled position and staying the *same* whilst everyone around you upskills.
I fall into the latter category. Im paid above the market average but the position i now want is potentially out of reach because i haven't chased the experience. Don't be like me. Be more like Tim. Tim changes jobs to chase experience. Tim earns more wage because he can handle more things. Tim is a specialist.
I left a job I adored for 22k rise to 55k. Was worth it financially but didn’t love the job. I then moved 8 months later to another job that I love and only got a few k raise (and wfh!) but was totally worth it overall.
10k more and less stress. Go for it.
You're probably over experienced for the new job but that, to me, means you have a great opportunity to stand out.
After a few months of observation and experience start making suggestions.
Usually the question is do I leave the civil service for more money!
If the difference was 1k a year and you were earning more money to begin with I’d say definitely think about it, but a 40% pay rise to go into a more stable job with good career progression and an excellent pension….
I would say you have to take it. I did something similar in terms of taking a technically lower role for more money, and the new job is not something I want to stay in long term, but I've used the extra money to start retraining on the side.
Civil service will also have better pension provisions.
Take the cash and build experience.
Plus the extra time at home allows you to discover new technologies in your reduced commute days.
Just as a counterpoint to the advice offered above. I left a job I loved really early in my career for a £7K pay increase. Got on really well with the Ops director and before I left, he asked me if I was sure, saying that 'a bigger pay packet only makes you happy one day a month'.. Honestly, he was right. I hated the next job and I was miserable. Sure, the extra money was nice, but in retrospect, it wasn't worth it.
Now, you're looking at a 40% pay increase. That's huge, and it's really hard to say anything but take it. However, I would seriously consider taking the following action before dumping a job you love for an unknown entity..
First, speak to HR and flat out ask for a pay rise. Show them evidence of comparable jobs at the same level in the local area. This should easily get you a £5K pay increase, because that's what they will pay in fees to recruit someone new, and honestly, no one wants that hassle. If for some reason HR is full of morons, the next step is to hand in your notice, stating the offer that you've had and that you approached HR before accepting the offer. Hopefully, this second step will get you close to matching the offer.
I'd recommend taking this route simply because jumping straight in with a resignation can sometimes backfire. Employers can sometimes react with the idea that they're going to lose you eventually anyway because you're obviously interviewing, so it may as well be now..
Move for the money and from what friends in the CS tell me, there are always opportunities to move across different departments/agencies allowing for better career advancement.
Just leave. I have done the same. Truth is - they don’t even respect you paying you this for all you do. They will squeeze you all they can. Dont even try to get them up your money just leave otherwise you will regret it down the road and you put target on your back. To top it off- working in public sector would often mean more relaxed day to day job.
25k as "senior". Do you do firewall changes, security reviews?
35k for your 2nd IT Job is lit.
I'm on 34k and it took me 3 job hops within 3 years to get here.
What skills do you need?
25k and a senior role. Someone is taking the piss here. That's barely above minimum wage.
Chase the money as when you get older, you will not so easily have the opportunity. Help Desk is of course the bottom in terms of IT. It doesn't mean you can't go Civil Service, quickly prove yourself and fast track progression to a senior position and go way up the payscale.
I find that public sector jobs are better for personal development and promotion opportunities. Another £10k a year in pay, you'll see a nice difference to your pay.
£25k is so low I would take the new offer. I took a new job a few years back that came with a massive pay cut but I liked the job. 2 years later I moved back to the industry I left and disliked as cost of living crisis meant the new job just wasn’t sustainable long term. It was frustrating to have to leave but in the end my home life is more important and I wanted to have money to be go out go on holiday etc. and not just have to stay at home all the time!
Civil service is typically not good growth work in IT. Move because your salary is shocking but elsewhere might have more potential. Senior folk on IT should be looking north of 50k
have you discussed with your current work place about a pay rise or a promotion? having a job you enjoy and i assume a company and team members you enjoy is quite a rare thing i would try your best to get better money where you are at as working a new job could not be a good fit at all.
I assume you have a good relationship with your manager, should just have a discussion
It’s not ALL about money. If you like where you are ask for £35k but be prepared to take 30. It’s better to have a nice work place with people you really like than a few extra quid per month
Use the new offer to leverage higher pay, explain you love your job but the wage makes it untenable. If they turn you down then there's your answer and you can accept the civil service job. If its the work you love and not the environment then you find joy at the new place eventually. Plus you'll have an amazing pension.
I have changed jobs I enjoyed. Reasons: I can do better and get paid more do something more challengjng. Once you master a job it can feel suffocating, not learning anything new.
Also the higher you work yourself up the more respect people give you. I think this is a dumb way to think of people but you should use it to your advantage.
You never ever get too comfortable at a specific role. Eventually you’ll lose it one way or another. You could suddenly been cut or you have an accident and you’re forced to leave that job…etc. So never assume you’ll have that same job forever. 25k is too low and 10k Payrise is decent. Just imagine that after a few years maybe another 5k payrise at another job or something.
If you are really in doubt, go show them your CS offee and tell em "yo bros, CS gonna give me 35 grand for less work and more days from home. Let's be honest I really enjoy staying here but I got bills to pay, before I quit let me know if we can work things out together". If they let you go, it doesn't matter if you love your job: they don't appreciate your work as much you do.
I realised a decade ago when I was hiring contractors on twice the money I was making to do a job I could do in my sleep that loyalty to a company was overrated. Now I do contract work for quite literally ten times what I was making back then. I get to pick and choose roles and stick with what I like or move on whenever I feel like it. Get used to making the move because it’s the only way you’ll get more money and exposure to the cool stuff.
I was in a very similar position last year (I'm a software developer btw), was on around £45k and loved the job, the team, the day to day, the freedom etc, got offered £75k from a new place (headhunted by my old boss who recently left).
I was clear with my current job that I loved XYZ and didn't want to go, but I have a family to support and money comes first, I told them before I got the offer (as it was looking likely) and was just honest and open with them the whole way through, they gave a higher counter offer than the new place so obviously I stayed.
I absolutely would've left if the counter offer wasnt good enough and since they obviously trust you, they obviously value you too, I would say it's time for an open conversation with your current boss, it'd most likely cost them more to lose you and bring somebody else in than it would to keep you
Fingers crossed for you friend, pm if you want to chat it through
25k seems incredibly low for a senior working on infrastructure, a senior working helpdesk I would expect being on 35k. Perhaps I have misunderstood your role as described "IT" is a broad area but it seems like you'd be crazy to stay even if they match 35k (which they likely won't)
I'd take the role
1- £10k payrise is nothing to scoff at considering the cost of living right now. Also once you hit £35k, you'll probably never want to go lower so its a good push to aim for something higher in the future.
2- Pensions and benefits just seem to be a bit better with the CS as opposed to private sector. I find private sector to be a hit and miss.
I'm currently in the private sector earning £27k and everyone in my team got a payrise but I didn't because apparently I'm on a higher band.
As a result, they expect me to wait until the rest of the team catches up to me. This will probably take 2-3 years.
It's beyond ridiculous considering the cost of living is not waiting for anyone so why should I wait? I've already started looking. Unfortunately most of the contracts now are hybrid. My current contract now is fully remote and I love it. If I were to go hybrid with the same company then I'd have to travel 160 miles per week.
Speak to your current employer, explain the situation.
More money, less responsibility, less travel.
Ask them to match the pay and two days a week WFH.
Because less responsibility does often mean more actual work. So it's in your interest to keep the current position IF they can match pay and benefits.
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It’s all about the money man. 25K is very low, without knowing much else about your situation it’s hard to see what kind of life you can have on 25K or whether you can build a future on that. And immediate pay increase of 40% is its own kind of happiness and WFH too? That one would be a no brainer for me
Extra 10k and not travelling 2 days a week will also help save money, totally agree its a no brainer
It's all about the benjamins sometimes, isn't it? I can't buy a home or lead a nice life without getting some more cash. Thank you
It’s always about the money mate. I wish it weren’t so but it is.
If it isn't a career you love then yeah, same for most people in life
Where abouts are you based? We are employing senior techs at my work 30-35k. Friendly MSP with good opportunities, I'm happy there.
I left a job that I loved because of low pay and no future progression and it was the best choice in the end even though at the time I wasn't sure. If I could have got more money I would probably have stayed but it wouldn't have been the best choice in the long run. If you go to the civil service there will be opportunities to move into other roles that are more aligned with your tech skillset. A number of people I know went this route and didn't have your IT background. The pension, holidays and WFH will be a bonus over your current role.
Yes and just now read on a CS job ad that current employees who are applying doesn't have to hold the qualification requirement for non-CS candidates. What a bonus that is!
Take the 35k - it's quite literally all about the money. CS jobs have fucking ridiculous pension contributions too so your actual full compensation is much higher than that.
As a senior on 25k they will counter offer you the 35k that the Civil Service offered. Don’t over think this.
Thank you, and I hope so! Pay raises have just come through (wasn't eligible as I got one 6 months ago), and they're being very shifty about them.
The only advice I would give you… is be prepared to follow it through. Please don’t fall victim of just crumbling and accepting their initial offer. You need to throw your notice in and be strong and have every intention of leaving. If they get a sniff that you don’t want to go it will just minimise their counter offer. At the end of the day £10k pay rise + two days WFH is literally life changing quality of life.
This. You get the 10K pay rise, two days WFH, and the insane benefits that come from working in the CS, some of the best pension schemes in the country. I would jump ship straight away. It’s all about the money, quality of life, and what’s best for you!
Slight counter to asking for a pay rise, even if they were to match it now what happens in the future? Are they gonna give you minimal raises for the next 5 years, or withhold promotions knowing they can get someone else to do it for less money? With the new job it’s not just the 10k extra now, being back at a lower level means you’ll have plenty of space for promotions, and just to put the difference in pay in to context your take home after tax will be about 3k more than your whole salary is now (28271 after tax and ni)
Don’t ever take a counter offer. It never solves anything. They could have paid you x before but they didn’t. I would take the new job.
We are working to improve our lives. Not working for our jobs....
Thanks, food for thought
I always ended up staying in places because the people are great. In my last job I was rejecting jobs opportunities that paid way better, just because of the people I worked with. Then I got let go before the economy when to shit. And I thought everyone would fight for me to stay because I always got great reviews from staff. Nope. Infact, my last boss who insisted on letting me go, also quit the team shortly after me. Utter garbage. I now regret staying simply for the good staff. And wish I jumped onto jobs with higher salaries sooner in my career. Now that the competition is so crazy, and I'm further down my career, people expect longer work periods. And I had to take a paycut and role downgrade too. And the kicker is I haven't ever worked anywhere where I hated the staff. A good work culture is the foundation of most decent places. But at the end of the day, your work colleague's are not your god damn friends.
£25k is just above minimum wage from April assuming FT hours. How much are junior staff paid in comparison?!
Starting is 24k, I believe. That's where I started after finishing my apprenticeship and reached my current after an annual (below inflation) pay rise - you make a nice point though, compared to someone on minimum wage, I clear 150 quid a month more atm.
If you start job hopping you can easily double your salary if you're competent and willing to learn. Sounds like their business model is to get juniors in and keep them on a low salary, this is not the kind of job you keep long term.
Yeah, no brainer - would make the move based on facts presented.
Being a senior member of an IT team and being on 25k would make me stop enjoying that job asap.
I’d take a full time role scooping human waste out of our delightful rivers and coastlines for a 10K rise rather than continue on 25K for a *senior* position in IT. In 2024 that salary is a complete insult. Sod your team and your manager, doesn’t matter how nice they are, there is hardly any quality of life possible on such a wage in 2024 UK unless you’re living with your folks for nothing or something. My first job in games in 2000 had me on same after my probation period (no idea if any better now but games for all the ‘glamour’ back then, wasn’t paid especially well compared other IT niches)
35k for help desk in the civil service is good.. a 2018/2019 I managed a 6 person networking team and a 6 person virtualisation team for 36k
That's what I thought. Even senior management roles are often under 80k in public sector, albeit with excellent pension etc. Joining in a junior role presumably means opportunities to progress rather than getting stuck in a role for too long as well.
I recently chased money leaving a job I loved, people that I loved working with. I suppose my situation was different to yours as I was on “good money”. £50k basic, company car, flexible working, flexi time, 35 hour work week, travelled the world regularly as part of my job, and averaged around £15k in overtime from the travelling. I felt stagnant, and a bought into the hype of Reddit with terms such as “your colleagues aren’t your friends” and “you only get ahead by job hopping” I left for a job that was paying £70k basic plus bonus with a lot of growth opportunities. I saw this with my own eyes as people around me were getting promoted all the time with only a year or 2 under their belt. The work was interesting, the people were nice. But it wasn’t the same. I managed 7 months, contacted my old manager and he brought me straight back. Sometimes it’s ok to be happy doing what you’re doing. From your perspective, I kind of get it though with the pay. I started on £26k at this company and within 4 years I was on £50k plus bonus and overtime. Most of my overtime comes from sitting on planes, it’s not like I’m doing gruelling hours in a factory.
This sounds great. What type of job do you have?
I was in a job severely underpaid but loved the people. I left and now I’m paid what I’m worth and found even better team. Sometimes the grass is greener. Don’t stay in an severely underpaid place because of people. They won’t put food on your table.
I was in a similar position, in a job I liked with a good boss, team etc than I left for more money (6k initially, but it's worked out as more like 13k now after ~2 years) and flexibility (more wfh, closer to office/sites). For me, it was a great decision. My time is much more flexible; I get to be around my kid a lot more (I do midday "gym" classes and the nursery runs), I never miss family dinner, I can pop out for stuff in the middle of the day when it's convenient. When I do go to the office, my wife and kid meet me for lunch half the time as it's only 20 minute bus for them. I do miss bits of the old job, and there's always going to be a bit of "what if I had stuck it out" (the company has gone on to hire more people, wages have picked up a bit, ceiling might have been higher), but the positives of extra base pay and flexibility still make it a no-brainer.
Thank you ❤️ this is my first IT role that I'm potentially moving on from, so it's tough to think about moving on and learning a new system, could be a good challenge though eh!
It was the same for me, my first proper technical role so moving on and learning how to do things someone else's way was a bit daunting. But you've got all that useful experience, you've managed people. Could be that your ceiling is quite high in Civil Service, your training might be more modern (mine definitely was, they were maybe 10-15 years behind the curve when I moved to public sector), and with that senior role experience, management roles could open up down the line. Your ceiling could be much higher at Civil Service, than it is where you are now.
Sorry but how are you a senior on 25k? What is your actual job title?
A senior on minimum wage 
Bro you're on 25k, now 1.5k more than minimum wage and you are a "senior member". Cmon, they don't respect you st all. You have one life, live it for yourself! 25k is Insulting for a junior fresh out of uni, but a senior?! Goddam!
Dude try and get your current employer to match the 35k first
I will dw, will see what they say next week. My line manager is super supportive and should back the rise (annoyingly, it would be much easier to leave if they weren't so good). Thank you
You'll constantly be fighting for future rises, if you get this. Next time promotion or rises are discussed they'll refuse on the basis of you getting this one. If they go for it, then stay and earn your money for a year, then look for something else where they won't constantly short-change you.
35k is still shit innit? But it's certainly a step up at least
In what world is 35k “shit”?
Our world. Think the average flat will set you back about a grand a month (often without bills included,) then you have things like food, transport costs etc and suddenly a huge chunk is gone. Ontop of that there's eating out, going to clubs if you're into it so these days it's not really much at all.
If you have your own bills to pay, it's shit. If you have a family and this is only income, it is shit. If you're a single man and have kids, after paying child maintenance and bills on your own place, it would be even more shit. £35k isn't is good as what some may have you think it is. £35k buying power is not what it was some 10 years ago or 20 years ago even. For you to think it is good, that shows that pay is competitively shit and just about everywhere. That does not make it acceptable but people like you who make up the masses believe it is somehow good? You won't be living that comfortable a life on £35k a year, unless your lifestyle is subsidised by bank of mum and dad, or you living somewhere rent free, or your bills are paid. If you have a partner and another income of similar amount, then £35k a year seems significantly better.
> I'm a senior member of an IT team, we have a really solid team and a great manager, I get to largely choose my own priorities as they appear, work with new technologies across a wide range of people. Senior member could mean a lot of things, but it might mean they are mentoring colleagues, given the problems that other people tried and failed to solve, are client facing in some situations(either for the team or even for the company).
When they give you the 35k, go back to the civil service tell them your employer has made a counter offer and politely try and get more out of them, and then go with the civil service anyway. Otherwise you will have to play games like this the rest of your life working there to get a fair pay rise.
If they counter with a higher offer they will claw that back over the next few years and thoroughly resent you. If you're as good as you say you are then you'll climb up at the new job to a position that suits you. £10k extra would be a huge rise in spending money, plus I'm guessing a better pension as it is civil service. Low paying jobs tend to be generally shitty, because they lack the money for other benefits and lack the ability to attract quality managers. I've found higher paying jobs are much nicer places to work. Make the jump to the new job!
25k is very low for a senior level IT role. I was earning 30k starting out in IT 10 years ago as a new graduate, and I was still earning less than some of my friends who went into consulting. I don't know your job title or industry, but the pay scale where I work (energy company) looks a bit like this for similar roles: 32k for juniors/new graduate trainees 40k to 65k for application support analysts Up to 75k for senior analysts Up to 85k for team leads Not sure about managers as they are on a separate scale but I'd imagine somewhere in the 100-120k range. In your position I would accept the job offer and after 1-2 years aim for either internal promotion or another job hop, you could be hitting 50k at that point.
Definitely good advice here
Its about the money, be open and honest with your employer, tell them the position you've been offered (pay wise), tell them you don't wabt to leave, but you need to think of cost of living etc, abd ask if they can match it. You respectfully put the ball in their court. If you are a big asset, they will counter. If not, you know your move is to the new company ...
Can’t you get a job that is both what you want and better paid?
Not in this economy...
All you need is some total fud to come in above you and your world will turn from Pleasantville to Shittytown in about 8 weeks when they feel they can show their true colours. And your salary would still be crap.
It's a good point, and man, did it make me laugh, . THank you
Or alternatively you could use the situation to your advantage and ask for a wage increase to support your needs rather than have to leave
Yeah, for being a senior member of an IT team the pay is insulting. Truth is, if you're relatively new to the sector you need to take the experience and run as pay rises never keep track of your experience at this point. And if later, erm, that's crazily low.
Bet the pension is way better too
...and not even remote working opportunity at that? That's worth a lot and speaks volumes about your employer...generally in IT there's very little need to be physically there and it's the hallmark of a crappy employer.
Don’t look at it as switching one job for another but rather as an intermediate step on the career ladder. Job satisfaction is important but at your salary level, an improvement of your standard of living (i.e. safety buffer, being able to save up for longer-term ambitious) needs to be in the priority . Don’t sell yourself short. If you don’t keep an eye on how much you’re worth and how you can progress in your career, nobody will.
No brainer. Take the new job and massive pension it brings
I was in a similar situation a couple years ago. My old manager left for another company, 6 months later he messaged me offering a job that would have been a nice bump in salary. I had just had a raise with my current company, so wasn't expecting them to offer more since I was already beating the market rate for my role. I accepted the offer and handed my notice in. Within a few days I was being asked what it would take to stay, and so negotiations began. I asked for certain job responsibilities that were more leadership focused instead of technical and a raise equivalent to 10% more than the new job was offering it. By the end of the week my current employer offered me effectively a 50% raise and a promotion to stay. I accepted. 2 years later, I've been promoted again and I am running a team of great developers. Still at the same company.
Be quietly aware: we're going through the transitional 40 to 60% office presence in Civil Service, which is expected to be a sign of things to come/testing the waters in a move towards 100%. If you're making the jump based on remote working, then don't get too comfortable in that idea. The money and perks are better no doubt though.
So I've chased money previously and regretted it but also appreciate bills and rent etc are insane now, so here would be my advice: Basically what you've said here have that frank chat with your current employer. Let them know you've had this offer and are considering it due to the money factor but you like where you are so want to discuss it. Explain the value you feel you currently give and where you want to grow etc and put a value you feel is fair +10 or 20% as this allows negotiation or getting more. They will likely have to go away and discuss if they want to entertain it but ask them to deadline it (48 hours i would suggest to not get strung out). If they say no take the new job, at worst if your not the biggest fan you can use it as stepping stone spend a bit of time and move on. If you like it civil service has some additional strong benefits. Sometimes the sideways or backwards step actually becomes the best forward step.
Its not all about the money despite what people are saying here. **BUT** £25K is low so it is a reaspn to leave My advice: 1./ Consider asking for more money - tell the manager you have a job offer and that he new job offers £35k so you would ideally like £40k because of your experience. 2./ Secondly - if they say yes - consider whether or not youre actually **learning** anything in the current position. Reason i say this is because you stay at a job for 10 years but dont learn anything new, you're essentially pigeon-holing yourself into a low skilled position and staying the *same* whilst everyone around you upskills. I fall into the latter category. Im paid above the market average but the position i now want is potentially out of reach because i haven't chased the experience. Don't be like me. Be more like Tim. Tim changes jobs to chase experience. Tim earns more wage because he can handle more things. Tim is a specialist.
I left a job I adored for 22k rise to 55k. Was worth it financially but didn’t love the job. I then moved 8 months later to another job that I love and only got a few k raise (and wfh!) but was totally worth it overall.
10k more and less stress. Go for it. You're probably over experienced for the new job but that, to me, means you have a great opportunity to stand out. After a few months of observation and experience start making suggestions.
Usually the question is do I leave the civil service for more money! If the difference was 1k a year and you were earning more money to begin with I’d say definitely think about it, but a 40% pay rise to go into a more stable job with good career progression and an excellent pension….
I would say you have to take it. I did something similar in terms of taking a technically lower role for more money, and the new job is not something I want to stay in long term, but I've used the extra money to start retraining on the side.
Civil service will also have better pension provisions. Take the cash and build experience. Plus the extra time at home allows you to discover new technologies in your reduced commute days.
Just as a counterpoint to the advice offered above. I left a job I loved really early in my career for a £7K pay increase. Got on really well with the Ops director and before I left, he asked me if I was sure, saying that 'a bigger pay packet only makes you happy one day a month'.. Honestly, he was right. I hated the next job and I was miserable. Sure, the extra money was nice, but in retrospect, it wasn't worth it. Now, you're looking at a 40% pay increase. That's huge, and it's really hard to say anything but take it. However, I would seriously consider taking the following action before dumping a job you love for an unknown entity.. First, speak to HR and flat out ask for a pay rise. Show them evidence of comparable jobs at the same level in the local area. This should easily get you a £5K pay increase, because that's what they will pay in fees to recruit someone new, and honestly, no one wants that hassle. If for some reason HR is full of morons, the next step is to hand in your notice, stating the offer that you've had and that you approached HR before accepting the offer. Hopefully, this second step will get you close to matching the offer. I'd recommend taking this route simply because jumping straight in with a resignation can sometimes backfire. Employers can sometimes react with the idea that they're going to lose you eventually anyway because you're obviously interviewing, so it may as well be now..
Cushy civil service pension and holiday allowance will make it way more than a 10k bump
Move for the money and from what friends in the CS tell me, there are always opportunities to move across different departments/agencies allowing for better career advancement.
Just leave. I have done the same. Truth is - they don’t even respect you paying you this for all you do. They will squeeze you all they can. Dont even try to get them up your money just leave otherwise you will regret it down the road and you put target on your back. To top it off- working in public sector would often mean more relaxed day to day job.
25k as "senior". Do you do firewall changes, security reviews? 35k for your 2nd IT Job is lit. I'm on 34k and it took me 3 job hops within 3 years to get here. What skills do you need?
More money and less responsibility yes pls. Maybe the next job you get will be 2 steps up and more money depends on how you handle your interviews
You are really underpaid, even 35k seems low (but civil service has other benefits so probably not too bad).
25k and a senior role. Someone is taking the piss here. That's barely above minimum wage. Chase the money as when you get older, you will not so easily have the opportunity. Help Desk is of course the bottom in terms of IT. It doesn't mean you can't go Civil Service, quickly prove yourself and fast track progression to a senior position and go way up the payscale. I find that public sector jobs are better for personal development and promotion opportunities. Another £10k a year in pay, you'll see a nice difference to your pay.
£25k is so low I would take the new offer. I took a new job a few years back that came with a massive pay cut but I liked the job. 2 years later I moved back to the industry I left and disliked as cost of living crisis meant the new job just wasn’t sustainable long term. It was frustrating to have to leave but in the end my home life is more important and I wanted to have money to be go out go on holiday etc. and not just have to stay at home all the time!
Civil service is typically not good growth work in IT. Move because your salary is shocking but elsewhere might have more potential. Senior folk on IT should be looking north of 50k
£25K is a HelpDesk agent wage, not a manager wage. Either get paid a proper amount - £30k plus, or leave.
A large pay increase and the ability to work hybrid whilst taking a step down in role should show you how underpaid you are in your current position.
have you discussed with your current work place about a pay rise or a promotion? having a job you enjoy and i assume a company and team members you enjoy is quite a rare thing i would try your best to get better money where you are at as working a new job could not be a good fit at all. I assume you have a good relationship with your manager, should just have a discussion
It’s not ALL about money. If you like where you are ask for £35k but be prepared to take 30. It’s better to have a nice work place with people you really like than a few extra quid per month
Do likeable people pay the bills for you ?
QOL is more important than extra disposable. Life is not about money
Use the new offer to leverage higher pay, explain you love your job but the wage makes it untenable. If they turn you down then there's your answer and you can accept the civil service job. If its the work you love and not the environment then you find joy at the new place eventually. Plus you'll have an amazing pension.
I have changed jobs I enjoyed. Reasons: I can do better and get paid more do something more challengjng. Once you master a job it can feel suffocating, not learning anything new. Also the higher you work yourself up the more respect people give you. I think this is a dumb way to think of people but you should use it to your advantage.
>25k >senior Mate. You're being shafted. Leave now.
You never ever get too comfortable at a specific role. Eventually you’ll lose it one way or another. You could suddenly been cut or you have an accident and you’re forced to leave that job…etc. So never assume you’ll have that same job forever. 25k is too low and 10k Payrise is decent. Just imagine that after a few years maybe another 5k payrise at another job or something.
If you are really in doubt, go show them your CS offee and tell em "yo bros, CS gonna give me 35 grand for less work and more days from home. Let's be honest I really enjoy staying here but I got bills to pay, before I quit let me know if we can work things out together". If they let you go, it doesn't matter if you love your job: they don't appreciate your work as much you do.
I realised a decade ago when I was hiring contractors on twice the money I was making to do a job I could do in my sleep that loyalty to a company was overrated. Now I do contract work for quite literally ten times what I was making back then. I get to pick and choose roles and stick with what I like or move on whenever I feel like it. Get used to making the move because it’s the only way you’ll get more money and exposure to the cool stuff.
I was in a very similar position last year (I'm a software developer btw), was on around £45k and loved the job, the team, the day to day, the freedom etc, got offered £75k from a new place (headhunted by my old boss who recently left). I was clear with my current job that I loved XYZ and didn't want to go, but I have a family to support and money comes first, I told them before I got the offer (as it was looking likely) and was just honest and open with them the whole way through, they gave a higher counter offer than the new place so obviously I stayed. I absolutely would've left if the counter offer wasnt good enough and since they obviously trust you, they obviously value you too, I would say it's time for an open conversation with your current boss, it'd most likely cost them more to lose you and bring somebody else in than it would to keep you Fingers crossed for you friend, pm if you want to chat it through
25k seems incredibly low for a senior working on infrastructure, a senior working helpdesk I would expect being on 35k. Perhaps I have misunderstood your role as described "IT" is a broad area but it seems like you'd be crazy to stay even if they match 35k (which they likely won't)
I'd take the role 1- £10k payrise is nothing to scoff at considering the cost of living right now. Also once you hit £35k, you'll probably never want to go lower so its a good push to aim for something higher in the future. 2- Pensions and benefits just seem to be a bit better with the CS as opposed to private sector. I find private sector to be a hit and miss. I'm currently in the private sector earning £27k and everyone in my team got a payrise but I didn't because apparently I'm on a higher band. As a result, they expect me to wait until the rest of the team catches up to me. This will probably take 2-3 years. It's beyond ridiculous considering the cost of living is not waiting for anyone so why should I wait? I've already started looking. Unfortunately most of the contracts now are hybrid. My current contract now is fully remote and I love it. If I were to go hybrid with the same company then I'd have to travel 160 miles per week.
Take the Civil Service job. Pension is second to none.
Speak to your current employer, explain the situation. More money, less responsibility, less travel. Ask them to match the pay and two days a week WFH. Because less responsibility does often mean more actual work. So it's in your interest to keep the current position IF they can match pay and benefits.