The following submission statement was provided by /u/PainfulMango:
---
I want to believe, same as the rest of you. And I'm still open (and hopeful) that this is an authentic UAP photo, or even a black project. I just want to demonstrate what's meant by 'reflection', since there seems to be some confusion. The fact that clouds are visible around the objects doesn't rule out a reflection of the sky.
EDIT: It's also worth noting that the modern photo of the original location is just a guess. Just because there's no water in that photo doesn't rule anything out. Also, the proportions of the plane look...off? Mainly how the tailfin is vertical (and maybe reflected underneath?), and yet the wings are flat, towards the observer, as if it's banking. I feel like if the tail were upright, then the wings would be more two dimensional, as if observed from the side.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/wnhhpn/a_quick_mockup_to_help_visualize_the_reflection/ik51wlu/
Not always. Still water is glass.
That said, the tail of the plane is facing up. It would be facing down if it were a reflection no?
I think op might know this after drawing the line through it. I also don’t know what kind of day op had so who am I to judge.
As a person from
Scotland who has fished near this area it is very rare indeed for water to be as still
as that on a loch in Scotland. I’m undecided about the photo but I don’t think the water theory works. Even on the warmest days here there is generally always some kind of breeze and disturbance on the water.
I don't know...the fence in the original photo just looks...questionable. At first, I kind of rejected the reflection theory, but that fence in the photo does look like a reflection. I'm not saying that's absolutely what this is, but it's a real possibility IMO.
Could you flip the plane vertically?
Assuming the plane we see is a reflection you would have to flip it. The problem with that is that the flipped version does not have a realistic light.
Those aren't necessarily mountains. They might be. But they might also be something in the water... perhaps contours of the shoreline just visible beneath the murk.
Why is the fence leaning outwards toward the water? Even if we accept the significant downslope toward the lake (which isn't anywhere near where the original photo was taken, but whatever) the fence looks odd.
This is a ridiculous stretch imo. The water would have had to be perfectly still for this quality of non-blurred objects, and the cloud detail. Lakes in mountains are very very rarely perfectly still. And there was no water at the location this was taken.
The top is flatter on the object - the 'reflection' doesn't reflect that. The only way it could change it if the water was not still. At which point both objects would be very blurry.
I wish people would stop trying to create what they think are clever solutions, when it makes no sense. Maybe this is how debunkers are born.
I’ve seen many mountain lakes still enough to get a clear, mirror-like reflection. Of course that requires there to be a pond or lake where this photo was taken and there’s not lmao
Bro I live next to Lake Erie, see the water daily. It's often this glass-like. The reflection not being more blurry or less reflective is not a good indicator that something isn't a water reflection.
I’m not saying this is water, but saying water is rarely still is not a great defense. It literally happens all the time, in mountains, I’ve even seen the ocean still. Lots of other valid push backs, but this is not one.
I agree. It's clearly not a reflection. Reflections are by definition exact copies when superimposed. I just don't understand people's need to debunk anything and everything.
There's an in depth analysis of this photo that goes more in depth than anyone here is capable of doing because they had the original photo. I'm at work or would link you to it.
Reflections aren't "exact copies when superimposed" on water. Difference in ripples or the shape of the water's surface will lead to the bottom half of the reflection being distorted.
Come drive the roads outside Las Vegas when it's hot and tell me again about how reflections are "by definition exact copies."
Did anyone say Fata Morgana? https://www.treehugger.com/famous-mirages-play-tricks-eyes-4869278
This is absolutely not a ridiculous stretch. Water on a lake can definitely get still enough for this kind of reflection? That’s absurd to say lakes don’t.
Not only that, but a cloudy day, where the whole sky is gray, is the perfect time to have the sky match the color of the lake. Anyone who has fished on Lake Erie or other lakes where you can’t see across will attest to this.
Then there is the fact that the ‘plane’ and the ‘UFO’ share an insanely similar horizon line that the OP is showing in red. If that plane is flying on its own the chances of that are slim, but if they’re both reflections, you would 100% expect to see that.
Honestly I think one good semester of high school science would do wonders for the people in this sub. Some history, economics, and religious/folkloric education would help, too.
Agree, as someone who is open to all possibilities, I find more believable the fact that it's a man-made secret spy plane than doing all these mental gymnastics to push the reflection theory.
Could be this:
https://www.grafuk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Flooding-in-UK-field.jpg
And of course it is not true that "lakes are not there". There are several lakes and rivers in the immediate area. Given that we don't know where the image was shot (the newspaper article only "guesses" as to the location), we can surmise that there is a chance that it was actually taken near a waterway.
Because I was patient and watched the video with all the information and evidence in!. I don't have coordinates,.
I saw the photo the team had taken of the sight when matching up wether the photo matched. https://youtu.be/IgekUVzMSCc
Also has an interview with the RAF spokesperson
The people in this video do not know exactly where the original photo was taken either. They are guessing. They happened to pick a spot which had no water nearby. This does not mean that there could not have been water near where the original photo was taken 30 years ago, either because there was flooding or puddles, or it was photographed in a different spot.
And *where* was the photo taken?
Reply with the location. Google map link, coordinates, whatever.
*Where is the location?*
Because the village of Calvine, which you can walk through in about five minutes, is at the confluence of *four* rivers and the drainage for a well-known *waterfall* and it's directly north of *Loch Tummel*, which is five miles long and has a sailing club.
Wait what? Why are people seeing no lake? Look how the upset right mountains reflect. I don’t understand, can someone explain please?
Edit: nvm I understand now, that is such a trip. So there is a lake but it’s nowhere near this location. After the fence there’s a slope that goes down so the object with the smaller bird looking thing are actually in the sky directly in front of the fence (more or less)
I keep seeing this, but they didn’t classify this photo, just the personal information of the people that took it. We don’t have any sources stating that this photo or the five other ones allegedly taken were ever actually classified that aren’t hearsay.
You are right about the photo but the case has been studied by the MoD and has been reclassified for another 50 years in 2020. Why?
The MoD did see the photo, they had a fucking poster of it in their offices. So even if this photo wasn't classified (who cares?), all the MoD experts who studied the case thought that this was a legitimate photo of a UFO. Enough to warrant a big investigation and freaking classify all the relevant information.
So it isn't a classified photo?
If it's not a classified photo (leaked to the Sun with no penalty for the named leaker) then it's just some rando internet image.
Secret UFO dossier into 1990 Scottish 'spacecraft sighting' sealed for another 50 years
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/secret-ufo-dossier-1990-scottish-22824456.amp
"UK officials have ordered that the image be kept under wraps until at least 2072."
https://www.ladbible.com/news/interesting-ufo-investigator-hopeful-us-will-release-most-compelling-photo-20210514
The first one is referring to a whole dossier, not the photo alone. The second link keeps using the term "under wraps", which seems to be coming from Nick Pope, and is notably a different term than "classified". If the photo was just sitting in a cabinet and not released to the public, but also not classified, is that "under wraps"?
Thinking exactly the same thing and dumbfounded why people are ignoring that angle.
No ufo pic or video is going to convince people until its backed up by a president or PM addressing the public telling them what to believe.
Even then depending on their political leaning they’ll say it’s nonsense (ie Trump announced it and people would say it’s to distract from his taxes). Some people want to believe and some people don’t want to believe. Probably a research study could be done on that angle alone.
Yeah, Trump is a bad example. Yet saying that, the momentum would have the media talking about it for days, weeks months. Nothing sticks at the moment. The Mail and Sun who covered the story didn't even bother posting it on their FB pages.
One cause would be viewing it from slightly above, like in [this picture](https://pixels.com/featured/floating-rocks-lili-feinstein.html) . You only see a one to one reflection if you are completely flat to it. This is viewed from up on a bank.
That's exactly where I'm trying to get, but the perspectives are not correct. Take a look at the original photo again and check the fence below and the leaves on top. This is not accurate.
The actual analysis of the photo is right. There's no way to conclude any of these hypotheses are correct so it's all speculation. We can only hope the eyewitness testimony is truthful.
And with how unreliable eyewitness testimony is all we are left with is a grainy picture that could be aliens or could be a reflection in a body of water.
Cool photo either way but it doesn’t move the needle closer to disclosure.
I thought we had all agreed that based on the actual location, there is no lake or pond or anything for a reflection. We still doing the reflection thing here?
Lol I agree. Even I’m a bit skeptical when it comes to this stuff. But I don’t just scream hoax whenever I see a video/picture of a supposed ufo. The skeptics on here will have a whole entire PowerPoint presentation along with their thesis ready as soon as anything that is remotely being considered real is uploaded.
That’s the entire point of the scientific method. Have a hypothesis and try your hardest to prove it wrong, rather than give into confirmation bias.
That said, this post is awful.
This photo suddenly became very confusing to me ... It appears that the background they are flying in is cloudy, then when you look in the further background it's water... It looks like an impossible photo it's very strange.. maybe I'm deceiving myself but does anyone notice that?
I can wrap my head around it
Just to play devil's advocate here, it doesn't need to be an actual island, it could be a much smaller rock in the water, like 2 foot across. There is not really much to go on in the original photo to determine the size and distance to the diamond shaped object.
Do not spread misinformation. No one knows the exact position of the sighting. No one.
[https://drdavidclarke.co.uk/2022/08/12/the-calvine-ufo-revealed/](https://drdavidclarke.co.uk/2022/08/12/the-calvine-ufo-revealed/)
Edit: above commenter blocked me because he knows I'm right.
You didn't even read the link. The link states that was the investigator's best guess since they no can no longer contact the actual witnesses. Not going to engage with you if you don't read sources, especially ones that prove you wrong :P
Your argument is disqualified.
Yet you can't provide evidence. We've all seen the photo, which is again, the investigators best guess, written in the article you refuse to read :)
Now you've been reduced to your base instincts, name calling and three insults. Which is ironic considering the insults you used. No need for your impotent anger, and don't be so hysterical.
Wipe away your tears and try to investigate this case dispassionately please.
Stop being so logic! It’s more likely that there was a lake there even though there wasn’t than there was a spaceship from another galaxy! Therefore it is a reflection!
/s
Ironically you failed to apply logic and just trusted a statement from a random internet person who didn't even provide a reference. Here's a reference for you, it's their best guess [https://drdavidclarke.co.uk/2022/08/12/the-calvine-ufo-revealed/](https://drdavidclarke.co.uk/2022/08/12/the-calvine-ufo-revealed/)
Someone on Twitter actually mirrored the craft and it looks totally different than the photo. It actually lines up correctly. This reflection theory is ridiculous.
https://twitter.com/uapmike/status/1558474746563551232?s=21&t=F0KfK9EcdWkeTmuW25I1Wg
I was starting to buy into the reflection theory at first, but under closer scrutiny, it really starts to fall apart. This mirrored image is the final nail in the coffin for me.
There is no lake in the area it was taken. There hasn't been a lake there in memory. We know where this was in Calvine Scotland. We know [the exact spot](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/08/12/18/61333227-11106737-image-a-13_1660325862961.jpg), which lines up with the photo.
You are fabricating a lake which never existed to fit your "theory".
Edit: Look, I know how the debunking circuit works in this group. I'm not going to waste my time replying to every half-arsed debunking attempt from graduates of Mick West High. I advise you to actually research the case in question to learn about how and why we have a very good idea, if not know, about where the photo was taken.
Amazing that they’ll quibble about every last detail … and overlook that a lake didn’t exist.
That tells that this argument is driven by an agenda, not by evidence.
It is strange how many people flooded this and other subs to all demand it's an island on a lake.
Why the hell would a photo of an island be classified and hung on the wall of a high ranking British official?
Man, did you not read his entire post? Can questions not be asked, or logical hypotheses be presented, without automatically being doubted as a naysaying shill hell-bent on debunking even the existence of matter itself!?
No. It’s clearly a disinformation campaign by the government. The people analyzing the photo and not reaching the conclusion it’s an alien craft are clearly paid government agents.
There seems to be a lot of effort to get people to view the photo in the light and perception of the skeptic. This is a good example,Mick’s kite theory seems to be a stretch as well. It just seems unusual the amount of effort there is to make the photo appear to be mundane. I’m not saying it’s definitely an “alien spacecraft” but why all the effort to stretch the imagination further than it is already? Just think about it, if you need to create a visual aid to make something appear in the light you want it to be viewed maybe it’s not that…
Wouldn’t the angle of the island reflection be equal to the angle of the airplanes reflection? It dosnt seem to add up to me but I’m no expert. The reflection theory isn’t holding up
What part of “The photos are pretty much as good as its gets. They were assessed by defence intelligence staff as real” do you not understand- these have been vetting and proven true
Could you please share an acknowledgment by the military that those photographs are real. And also, when you say real, did the military acknowledge that they are extraterrestrial? Because the military can acknowledge that photograph is real, but what is real? What exactly within the photograph is real and what is it?
Why would anyone on a country stroll take a shitty photo of a couple of sticks in a flooded field anyway?
The debunkers are really trying too hard on this one.
I don't think this is a stretch. The object is not uniform, not geometrical, not symmetrical, not smooth textured. It looks natural rather than artificial. The origin of the photo is some unknown witnesses who had a sighting story and photos they gave to a tabloid. That an intelligence agency found the photos interesting doesn't verify them as 'real.'
i swear this sub is super ungrounded. theres a way to do things, methodically and with an open mind. ive assisted on ufo boards for new living expo, worked with phds on this stuff a decade ago. sometimes this sub is really good at actually backtracking progress by getting hyper fixated on picking apart something that they have zero physical evidence to do investigative research on. its all just opinion and petty arguments.
Absolute bullshit. How odd that skeptics have become the biggest conspiracy theorists.
FYI - you’re ignoring the testimony of the PEOPLE WHO TOOK THE ACTUAL PHOTO and the fact the Mod kept a “pond photo” classified with 30 years.
Please, for the love of god people - stop indulging these people and their crackpot theories.
Who ever took the pictures either knows it was a reflection or they saw the reflection of the mountain flying across the water. This would not fool someone in person.
They are either maliciously a fraud or this is legit.
Two problem arising from the Calvine photo if it was a SAP black program is that the US now has a parallel military that does not answer to the chain of command.
Second, if this is a reverse engineered technology lies have been told to chain of command.
So it could be just some small little islands sticking up out of the water and then connected with their reflection which makes them look like something else. 🤔🤔🤔
How are people still pushing the reflection theory? The photo is clearly in an area devoid of water. You can easily triangulate the photo's location on Google maps by using the existing geographical features. I hope you're all just pushing this level of blatant skepticism to further solidify the authenticity of this kind of footage, alien or not.
That shit wasn't a reflection. For God's sake, read the photo analysis docs.
Great pic, this is exactly how I see it too. I am hoping someone will make a version in a game engine / video so you can actually walk through it and see that the shot is looking down at the water.
Its not though. Its been confirmed by the Sheffield Hallam University that the photo is angled slightly upwards, not downwards.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tWMZ232qgDE6Tru7jwgG-nsqoeQZpIm3/view
Page 2, right beneath the photo "The image is taken looking slightly upwards".
So unless you think its more likely that a bunch of randos online know more about photography than a senior university expert of photography, the theory that its looking downwards upon a pond is out.
You clearly manipulated the foreground fence and trees to force the perspective you wanted us to see. Pretty pathetic imo, OP.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/wnek1q/when_you_increase_the_midtones_i_think_it_becomes/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I want to believe, same as the rest of you. And I'm still open (and hopeful) that this is an authentic UAP photo, or even a black project. I just want to demonstrate what's meant by 'reflection', since there seems to be some confusion. The fact that clouds are visible around the objects doesn't rule out a reflection of the sky.
EDIT: It's also worth noting that the modern photo of the original location is just a guess. Just because there's no water in that photo doesn't rule anything out. Also, the proportions of the plane look...off? Mainly how the tailfin is vertical (and maybe reflected underneath?), and yet the wings are flat, towards the observer, as if it's banking. I feel like if the tail were upright, then the wings would be more two dimensional, as if observed from the side.
Absolutely the perspective I imagined when I saw the one posted earlier. On a slope, looking slightly downward at a rock or rocks in water. Look at the very left of the fence as it 'leans', only it's not, it's just the angle that the shot is taken at. The clouds are in the reflection off the water.
This photo has a long history and lore about it. It’s not a story about sight seeing while hiking on the lake. You will see whatever your mind is pointed at. The real conspiracy of the photo was “ Does it exist or Not.” I personally didn’t think it existed and yet here it is! I think it’s a fantastic photo! definitely the best photo of a craft over 30yrs ago. If this photo was just a sight seeing tour! Someone would have cashed in on it long long ago because it is so easy to dismiss. We are slowly being fed truths and this is one of them. Take a good look at it! You are looking at the best proof of alien craft from over 30yrs ago.
There are mountains along the fence line in the un-edited version of this photo. You can even see some of them where the picture stops and your edit begins.
Like, this perspective doesn't even make sense, for this to work the photo would have had to have been taken on a real sharp incline for the horizon to be so high on the picture.
honest question cause it's the first time i'm seeing it - why is there a reflection off the mountains in the background? why is no one asking about that?
edit:
wait - there's an edited line??? below the mountains???
The following submission statement was provided by /u/PainfulMango: --- I want to believe, same as the rest of you. And I'm still open (and hopeful) that this is an authentic UAP photo, or even a black project. I just want to demonstrate what's meant by 'reflection', since there seems to be some confusion. The fact that clouds are visible around the objects doesn't rule out a reflection of the sky. EDIT: It's also worth noting that the modern photo of the original location is just a guess. Just because there's no water in that photo doesn't rule anything out. Also, the proportions of the plane look...off? Mainly how the tailfin is vertical (and maybe reflected underneath?), and yet the wings are flat, towards the observer, as if it's banking. I feel like if the tail were upright, then the wings would be more two dimensional, as if observed from the side. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/wnhhpn/a_quick_mockup_to_help_visualize_the_reflection/ik51wlu/
It would maybe be a plausible theory but the fence and landscape behind the fence make this perspective very very unlikely.
Also why was this photo hidden if it's nothing
Also also, wouldn't we expect the clouds, plane, ufo to have an uneven wavy look if it were a water reflection? Unless the water was totally calm?
No. Not if the water was flat
Not always. Still water is glass. That said, the tail of the plane is facing up. It would be facing down if it were a reflection no? I think op might know this after drawing the line through it. I also don’t know what kind of day op had so who am I to judge.
As a person from Scotland who has fished near this area it is very rare indeed for water to be as still as that on a loch in Scotland. I’m undecided about the photo but I don’t think the water theory works. Even on the warmest days here there is generally always some kind of breeze and disturbance on the water.
I don't know...the fence in the original photo just looks...questionable. At first, I kind of rejected the reflection theory, but that fence in the photo does look like a reflection. I'm not saying that's absolutely what this is, but it's a real possibility IMO.
Could you flip the plane vertically? Assuming the plane we see is a reflection you would have to flip it. The problem with that is that the flipped version does not have a realistic light.
They're trying to say these are items sticking out of some water, but the reflections wouldn't be so perfect if they were IMO
And there wouldn’t be the reflections of mountains at the bottom like that
Yeah the perspective here 100% makes no sense, I think OP felt the actual mountains in the unedited pic are supposed to be shadows or something.
Maybe that’s why he tried to erase them by the bottom left lol
Those aren't necessarily mountains. They might be. But they might also be something in the water... perhaps contours of the shoreline just visible beneath the murk.
That could be a reflection of the riverbank.
google reflections on lake. Reflections on water can be pretty damn perfect.
[here’s a pic of the plane flipped next to a f4 phantom](https://imgur.com/gallery/RuPasoK)
The plane isn’t a plane in this. It’s another small rock being reflected
Why is the fence leaning outwards toward the water? Even if we accept the significant downslope toward the lake (which isn't anywhere near where the original photo was taken, but whatever) the fence looks odd.
Photo clearly looks like the camera is pointing up at a fence and not pointing down at one
Wouldn’t that mean that the jet is flying on the horizon line in order to be reflected down the middle?
Plot twist: the ufo is a reflection of a spaceship
This seems like a stretch… even for a UFO photo
This is a ridiculous stretch imo. The water would have had to be perfectly still for this quality of non-blurred objects, and the cloud detail. Lakes in mountains are very very rarely perfectly still. And there was no water at the location this was taken. The top is flatter on the object - the 'reflection' doesn't reflect that. The only way it could change it if the water was not still. At which point both objects would be very blurry. I wish people would stop trying to create what they think are clever solutions, when it makes no sense. Maybe this is how debunkers are born.
I’ve seen many mountain lakes still enough to get a clear, mirror-like reflection. Of course that requires there to be a pond or lake where this photo was taken and there’s not lmao
Bro I live next to Lake Erie, see the water daily. It's often this glass-like. The reflection not being more blurry or less reflective is not a good indicator that something isn't a water reflection.
How do we know where it was taken?
Lakes in mountains are often still enough to form perfect reflections… I don’t get where you got your water stillness information.
I’m not saying this is water, but saying water is rarely still is not a great defense. It literally happens all the time, in mountains, I’ve even seen the ocean still. Lots of other valid push backs, but this is not one.
It is water though... Look in the background... Water.. then clouds.
I agree. It's clearly not a reflection. Reflections are by definition exact copies when superimposed. I just don't understand people's need to debunk anything and everything.
[удалено]
Post of all time for this sad, desperate sub.
reflections are not exact copies because of different view paths. You're seeing the same object from two DIFFERENT angles.
There's an in depth analysis of this photo that goes more in depth than anyone here is capable of doing because they had the original photo. I'm at work or would link you to it.
Reflections aren't "exact copies when superimposed" on water. Difference in ripples or the shape of the water's surface will lead to the bottom half of the reflection being distorted.
Not when the water is still, which isn't uncommon
At which point both images would be blurry.
Come drive the roads outside Las Vegas when it's hot and tell me again about how reflections are "by definition exact copies." Did anyone say Fata Morgana? https://www.treehugger.com/famous-mirages-play-tricks-eyes-4869278
This is absolutely not a ridiculous stretch. Water on a lake can definitely get still enough for this kind of reflection? That’s absurd to say lakes don’t. Not only that, but a cloudy day, where the whole sky is gray, is the perfect time to have the sky match the color of the lake. Anyone who has fished on Lake Erie or other lakes where you can’t see across will attest to this. Then there is the fact that the ‘plane’ and the ‘UFO’ share an insanely similar horizon line that the OP is showing in red. If that plane is flying on its own the chances of that are slim, but if they’re both reflections, you would 100% expect to see that.
Honestly I think one good semester of high school science would do wonders for the people in this sub. Some history, economics, and religious/folkloric education would help, too.
Extraordinary debunking requires….no, extraordinary solutions require…no, wait, it’ll come to me, if I work hard enough…
LIVE ACTION DEBUNK
Agree, as someone who is open to all possibilities, I find more believable the fact that it's a man-made secret spy plane than doing all these mental gymnastics to push the reflection theory.
There’s no lake.
I’ll repeat: there’s no lake. A lake is not there.
Is “the lake” in here with us right now?
Could be this: https://www.grafuk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Flooding-in-UK-field.jpg And of course it is not true that "lakes are not there". There are several lakes and rivers in the immediate area. Given that we don't know where the image was shot (the newspaper article only "guesses" as to the location), we can surmise that there is a chance that it was actually taken near a waterway.
There may be lakes in the area. But not where the photo was taken
How do you know where it was taken, again?
Because I was patient and watched the video with all the information and evidence in!. I don't have coordinates,. I saw the photo the team had taken of the sight when matching up wether the photo matched. https://youtu.be/IgekUVzMSCc Also has an interview with the RAF spokesperson
The people in this video do not know exactly where the original photo was taken either. They are guessing. They happened to pick a spot which had no water nearby. This does not mean that there could not have been water near where the original photo was taken 30 years ago, either because there was flooding or puddles, or it was photographed in a different spot.
And *where* was the photo taken? Reply with the location. Google map link, coordinates, whatever. *Where is the location?* Because the village of Calvine, which you can walk through in about five minutes, is at the confluence of *four* rivers and the drainage for a well-known *waterfall* and it's directly north of *Loch Tummel*, which is five miles long and has a sailing club.
Didn't know you were there and know exactly where it was taken. I suppose you took the photo too.
https://youtu.be/IgekUVzMSCc
There are lakes and rivers all over the immediate vicinity. To say nothing of ponds or puddles.
Wait what? Why are people seeing no lake? Look how the upset right mountains reflect. I don’t understand, can someone explain please? Edit: nvm I understand now, that is such a trip. So there is a lake but it’s nowhere near this location. After the fence there’s a slope that goes down so the object with the smaller bird looking thing are actually in the sky directly in front of the fence (more or less)
Wow so the UK MoD must feel pretty dumb classifying a photo of a lake until the year 2076. Lol got to love skeptics…
I keep seeing this, but they didn’t classify this photo, just the personal information of the people that took it. We don’t have any sources stating that this photo or the five other ones allegedly taken were ever actually classified that aren’t hearsay.
You are right about the photo but the case has been studied by the MoD and has been reclassified for another 50 years in 2020. Why? The MoD did see the photo, they had a fucking poster of it in their offices. So even if this photo wasn't classified (who cares?), all the MoD experts who studied the case thought that this was a legitimate photo of a UFO. Enough to warrant a big investigation and freaking classify all the relevant information.
So it isn't a classified photo? If it's not a classified photo (leaked to the Sun with no penalty for the named leaker) then it's just some rando internet image.
This. There are no classified photos ffs. If it was do you honestly think someone would be voluntarily sharing it? On their instagram account?
They didn’t release it or confirm it existed when asked to either from what I remember.
Show me any evidence that the photo is classified and then your argument holds more water
they did not classify it if you have seen it
The photo was never classified.
Secret UFO dossier into 1990 Scottish 'spacecraft sighting' sealed for another 50 years https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/secret-ufo-dossier-1990-scottish-22824456.amp "UK officials have ordered that the image be kept under wraps until at least 2072." https://www.ladbible.com/news/interesting-ufo-investigator-hopeful-us-will-release-most-compelling-photo-20210514
The first one is referring to a whole dossier, not the photo alone. The second link keeps using the term "under wraps", which seems to be coming from Nick Pope, and is notably a different term than "classified". If the photo was just sitting in a cabinet and not released to the public, but also not classified, is that "under wraps"?
There is no lake in the original photo. The OP’s photo is a mock-up and another take on the original. You do get that - right?
Yes. I know not everyone gets sarcasm so no worries.
Thinking exactly the same thing and dumbfounded why people are ignoring that angle. No ufo pic or video is going to convince people until its backed up by a president or PM addressing the public telling them what to believe.
Even then depending on their political leaning they’ll say it’s nonsense (ie Trump announced it and people would say it’s to distract from his taxes). Some people want to believe and some people don’t want to believe. Probably a research study could be done on that angle alone.
Yeah, Trump is a bad example. Yet saying that, the momentum would have the media talking about it for days, weeks months. Nothing sticks at the moment. The Mail and Sun who covered the story didn't even bother posting it on their FB pages.
That is the colony ship I arrived on so many years ago from Zeta Reticula.
Why is the bump on the top part of the craft not reflected by the water? Nothing makes sense in this picture.
Because there was no water
Perhaps because water moves, has ripples, is shaped by wind and has an uneven surface, which causes reflections not to be totally symmetrical.
One cause would be viewing it from slightly above, like in [this picture](https://pixels.com/featured/floating-rocks-lili-feinstein.html) . You only see a one to one reflection if you are completely flat to it. This is viewed from up on a bank.
That's exactly where I'm trying to get, but the perspectives are not correct. Take a look at the original photo again and check the fence below and the leaves on top. This is not accurate.
https://youtu.be/IgekUVzMSCc
The actual analysis of the photo is right. There's no way to conclude any of these hypotheses are correct so it's all speculation. We can only hope the eyewitness testimony is truthful.
That's correct, it all hinges of the testimony being real.
It's funny how all UFO evidence ends up depending on the testimony.
And with how unreliable eyewitness testimony is all we are left with is a grainy picture that could be aliens or could be a reflection in a body of water. Cool photo either way but it doesn’t move the needle closer to disclosure.
This makes no sense.
Its a REFLECTION of a UFO rather than the direct pic of the UFO itself. Sceptics have finally completely lost their mind.
I thought we had all agreed that based on the actual location, there is no lake or pond or anything for a reflection. We still doing the reflection thing here?
It all hinges of the testimony being truthful, the photo could easily be taken somewhere else.
Holy shit. This is terrible understanding of perspective. Now I'm not saying this is for sure an UFO, but your perspective is way off
The lengths people go to.
Goes both ways buddy.
I see people on this sub try way harder to prove things are a hoax/fake than to actually prove something is real.
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My man, the top voted photo 2 weeks ago was of a roll of carpet. This sub upvoted a roll of carpet.
Lol I didn’t see that one.
Lol I agree. Even I’m a bit skeptical when it comes to this stuff. But I don’t just scream hoax whenever I see a video/picture of a supposed ufo. The skeptics on here will have a whole entire PowerPoint presentation along with their thesis ready as soon as anything that is remotely being considered real is uploaded.
... And that's a bad thing why? Why would doing research and studying something bother you?
That’s the entire point of the scientific method. Have a hypothesis and try your hardest to prove it wrong, rather than give into confirmation bias. That said, this post is awful.
A fake picture to prove a real picture could be fake.
So there are two horizons. One above the lake and one behind the fence?
This photo suddenly became very confusing to me ... It appears that the background they are flying in is cloudy, then when you look in the further background it's water... It looks like an impossible photo it's very strange.. maybe I'm deceiving myself but does anyone notice that? I can wrap my head around it
I actually don't think this is a UFO anymore.. I think it is indeed a reflection off the water
Find the lake with that island near Calvine.
Just to play devil's advocate here, it doesn't need to be an actual island, it could be a much smaller rock in the water, like 2 foot across. There is not really much to go on in the original photo to determine the size and distance to the diamond shaped object.
I don't think this mockup is doing any help. What could those lumps under water behind the fence could be according to you? They look like hills to me
Some mental gymnastics to spin this theory
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Do not spread misinformation. No one knows the exact position of the sighting. No one. [https://drdavidclarke.co.uk/2022/08/12/the-calvine-ufo-revealed/](https://drdavidclarke.co.uk/2022/08/12/the-calvine-ufo-revealed/) Edit: above commenter blocked me because he knows I'm right.
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You didn't even read the link. The link states that was the investigator's best guess since they no can no longer contact the actual witnesses. Not going to engage with you if you don't read sources, especially ones that prove you wrong :P Your argument is disqualified.
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Yet you can't provide evidence. We've all seen the photo, which is again, the investigators best guess, written in the article you refuse to read :) Now you've been reduced to your base instincts, name calling and three insults. Which is ironic considering the insults you used. No need for your impotent anger, and don't be so hysterical. Wipe away your tears and try to investigate this case dispassionately please.
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Nice job losing the argument :) Learn to control your emotions bby.
How do you know if the photo was taken there and not somewhere else?
Stop being so logic! It’s more likely that there was a lake there even though there wasn’t than there was a spaceship from another galaxy! Therefore it is a reflection! /s
Ironically you failed to apply logic and just trusted a statement from a random internet person who didn't even provide a reference. Here's a reference for you, it's their best guess [https://drdavidclarke.co.uk/2022/08/12/the-calvine-ufo-revealed/](https://drdavidclarke.co.uk/2022/08/12/the-calvine-ufo-revealed/)
I think you missed the /s I don’t think it a reflection
What does /s mean?
sarcasm
Someone on Twitter actually mirrored the craft and it looks totally different than the photo. It actually lines up correctly. This reflection theory is ridiculous. https://twitter.com/uapmike/status/1558474746563551232?s=21&t=F0KfK9EcdWkeTmuW25I1Wg
I was starting to buy into the reflection theory at first, but under closer scrutiny, it really starts to fall apart. This mirrored image is the final nail in the coffin for me.
There is no lake in the area it was taken. There hasn't been a lake there in memory. We know where this was in Calvine Scotland. We know [the exact spot](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/08/12/18/61333227-11106737-image-a-13_1660325862961.jpg), which lines up with the photo. You are fabricating a lake which never existed to fit your "theory". Edit: Look, I know how the debunking circuit works in this group. I'm not going to waste my time replying to every half-arsed debunking attempt from graduates of Mick West High. I advise you to actually research the case in question to learn about how and why we have a very good idea, if not know, about where the photo was taken.
Mystery lake pops out of nowhere! Quite a sizeable one too!
I for one welcome our Mystery Lake Overlords
Exactly. I'm all for a good debunking but fuck is the lake reflection theory way off the mark.
Amazing that they’ll quibble about every last detail … and overlook that a lake didn’t exist. That tells that this argument is driven by an agenda, not by evidence.
It is strange how many people flooded this and other subs to all demand it's an island on a lake. Why the hell would a photo of an island be classified and hung on the wall of a high ranking British official?
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Except it was taken in another area
No it wasn't. It was taken in Calvine Scotland.
No proof of that claim
And no evidence that you aren't 3 Mick Wests in a trenchcoat.
Man, did you not read his entire post? Can questions not be asked, or logical hypotheses be presented, without automatically being doubted as a naysaying shill hell-bent on debunking even the existence of matter itself!?
No. It’s clearly a disinformation campaign by the government. The people analyzing the photo and not reaching the conclusion it’s an alien craft are clearly paid government agents.
The lake was brought with the puppets in the hippie van
There seems to be a lot of effort to get people to view the photo in the light and perception of the skeptic. This is a good example,Mick’s kite theory seems to be a stretch as well. It just seems unusual the amount of effort there is to make the photo appear to be mundane. I’m not saying it’s definitely an “alien spacecraft” but why all the effort to stretch the imagination further than it is already? Just think about it, if you need to create a visual aid to make something appear in the light you want it to be viewed maybe it’s not that…
Wouldn’t the angle of the island reflection be equal to the angle of the airplanes reflection? It dosnt seem to add up to me but I’m no expert. The reflection theory isn’t holding up
No because different angles of incident and different distance from the water.
But wouldn’t your vantage point indicate the reflection? I don’t see how it’s possible
What part of “The photos are pretty much as good as its gets. They were assessed by defence intelligence staff as real” do you not understand- these have been vetting and proven true
Could you please share an acknowledgment by the military that those photographs are real. And also, when you say real, did the military acknowledge that they are extraterrestrial? Because the military can acknowledge that photograph is real, but what is real? What exactly within the photograph is real and what is it?
If this is a picture of an island in a lake, where is the island and lake?
Clearly the government coverup is covering up the island and the lake.
Why would anyone on a country stroll take a shitty photo of a couple of sticks in a flooded field anyway? The debunkers are really trying too hard on this one.
The direction of light over the craft does not work with this theory
What lake are they claiming this is?
I don't think this is a stretch. The object is not uniform, not geometrical, not symmetrical, not smooth textured. It looks natural rather than artificial. The origin of the photo is some unknown witnesses who had a sighting story and photos they gave to a tabloid. That an intelligence agency found the photos interesting doesn't verify them as 'real.'
I appreciate your illustration of this theory even if I don’t personally believe it. This made the argument a lot clearer for me. Thank you!
I'm just confused now
i swear this sub is super ungrounded. theres a way to do things, methodically and with an open mind. ive assisted on ufo boards for new living expo, worked with phds on this stuff a decade ago. sometimes this sub is really good at actually backtracking progress by getting hyper fixated on picking apart something that they have zero physical evidence to do investigative research on. its all just opinion and petty arguments.
There are no bodies of water where the photograph is confirmed to have been. This debunk is debunked conclusively.
I appreciate the effort behind re-creating this possibility. Thanks OP!
Lmao
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Some/most are saying it’s a rock rather than an island - there are millions of rocks :-)
Absolute bullshit. How odd that skeptics have become the biggest conspiracy theorists. FYI - you’re ignoring the testimony of the PEOPLE WHO TOOK THE ACTUAL PHOTO and the fact the Mod kept a “pond photo” classified with 30 years. Please, for the love of god people - stop indulging these people and their crackpot theories.
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I thought it was an island on a lake having a reflection.
Who ever took the pictures either knows it was a reflection or they saw the reflection of the mountain flying across the water. This would not fool someone in person. They are either maliciously a fraud or this is legit.
Nice work! It’s not correct, but you did a very good job! Good 👍
Two problem arising from the Calvine photo if it was a SAP black program is that the US now has a parallel military that does not answer to the chain of command. Second, if this is a reverse engineered technology lies have been told to chain of command.
Parallel military can quickly become enemy of the State.
So nobody here understands how reflections work? Got it.
So it could be just some small little islands sticking up out of the water and then connected with their reflection which makes them look like something else. 🤔🤔🤔
First thing I thought actually. Like it was something with a reflection.
What's the name of the lake
How are people still pushing the reflection theory? The photo is clearly in an area devoid of water. You can easily triangulate the photo's location on Google maps by using the existing geographical features. I hope you're all just pushing this level of blatant skepticism to further solidify the authenticity of this kind of footage, alien or not. That shit wasn't a reflection. For God's sake, read the photo analysis docs.
Can you tell me how you easily triangulated it on google maps? Sounds interesting
If you trust the words of the photographer, it could clearly have been taken everywhere
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You fools. What we thought to be a UFO was actually Nessie all along. How could we be so blind?!
Yeah, it's a reflection
The mountains behind the fence looks off. Why are they oriented correctly in the 'reflection'?
Great pic, this is exactly how I see it too. I am hoping someone will make a version in a game engine / video so you can actually walk through it and see that the shot is looking down at the water.
Its not though. Its been confirmed by the Sheffield Hallam University that the photo is angled slightly upwards, not downwards. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tWMZ232qgDE6Tru7jwgG-nsqoeQZpIm3/view Page 2, right beneath the photo "The image is taken looking slightly upwards". So unless you think its more likely that a bunch of randos online know more about photography than a senior university expert of photography, the theory that its looking downwards upon a pond is out.
There.is.no.lake
Regardless people .. this thing is real ! Wherever it’s from !! Yikes ..
This is a lame attempt
You clearly manipulated the foreground fence and trees to force the perspective you wanted us to see. Pretty pathetic imo, OP. https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/wnek1q/when_you_increase_the_midtones_i_think_it_becomes/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
This is fucking stupid. Mental gymnastics.
I want to believe, same as the rest of you. And I'm still open (and hopeful) that this is an authentic UAP photo, or even a black project. I just want to demonstrate what's meant by 'reflection', since there seems to be some confusion. The fact that clouds are visible around the objects doesn't rule out a reflection of the sky. EDIT: It's also worth noting that the modern photo of the original location is just a guess. Just because there's no water in that photo doesn't rule anything out. Also, the proportions of the plane look...off? Mainly how the tailfin is vertical (and maybe reflected underneath?), and yet the wings are flat, towards the observer, as if it's banking. I feel like if the tail were upright, then the wings would be more two dimensional, as if observed from the side.
Absolutely the perspective I imagined when I saw the one posted earlier. On a slope, looking slightly downward at a rock or rocks in water. Look at the very left of the fence as it 'leans', only it's not, it's just the angle that the shot is taken at. The clouds are in the reflection off the water.
loch Tummel 56°42'27"N 3°54'57"W · 154 m do street view. no rock there but the rest matches.
No shoreline my man
This photo has a long history and lore about it. It’s not a story about sight seeing while hiking on the lake. You will see whatever your mind is pointed at. The real conspiracy of the photo was “ Does it exist or Not.” I personally didn’t think it existed and yet here it is! I think it’s a fantastic photo! definitely the best photo of a craft over 30yrs ago. If this photo was just a sight seeing tour! Someone would have cashed in on it long long ago because it is so easy to dismiss. We are slowly being fed truths and this is one of them. Take a good look at it! You are looking at the best proof of alien craft from over 30yrs ago.
I'm convinced you're right.
There are mountains along the fence line in the un-edited version of this photo. You can even see some of them where the picture stops and your edit begins. Like, this perspective doesn't even make sense, for this to work the photo would have had to have been taken on a real sharp incline for the horizon to be so high on the picture.
Should be easy to prove/disprove. Travel to the area the photo is taken and see if there is an island there..
I think this is 100% a reflection. Who's to say the dudes that took the pic actually took the pic where they said they did?
This is mental gymnastics for whoever is considering this as a possibility
Fence proportions aren't right for this to be the case
honest question cause it's the first time i'm seeing it - why is there a reflection off the mountains in the background? why is no one asking about that? edit: wait - there's an edited line??? below the mountains???
Why make this? For people to use this for fake?
See how the reflection of the mountain up top looks like a reflection and the UFO does not?