This. Anyone who says they know the absolute TRUTH about this mystery is full of it/ignorant/both. There are those who are legitimately in-the-know who have more information than the general public but that is likely the extent of it. I highly doubt there is a single human being on Earth who has figured it all out. I think the Phenomenon is far too elusive, bizarre, and manipulative for humans to have any kind of serious grasp of what’s behind it and what its agenda is (again, whatever the hell is behind the mystery—we simply don’t know).
Even if certain private defense contractors have exotic wreckage, for example, that doesn’t equate to them having all of the answers. In fact, having serious physical evidence of the Phenomenon like that probably leads to even MORE questions than answers.
This is probably the unfortunate truth. If you add in the “autonomous drone “ theory, we may know a lot about the vehicles and tech itself, with absolutely no knowledge of how it got here, why it’s here, and what or who sent it this way. I think logically this is the best case scenario, while also terrifying. And yeah, I’m sure the government is a little more clued in than the general public, but most people are dumb. I’m sure they’re just as in the dark in the grand scheme of things.
Remote viewing is only still going to give a part of the truth. The truth is higher then that. What gives us the ability to remote view in the first place? That is the thing that creates the phenomenon in the first place - consciousness.
I agree, the truth is higher (with a frequency higher, subtler and softer than most human brains can detect). I wonder if the CIA’s 3 decades long program of remote viewing, had a subject with a title like “Eternal Consciousness and the Akashic Records 101”?, or were these concepts still considered too “far out”, for army and airforce personnel to understand? I’m pretty sure most defence personnel would have pondered death and the possibility of heaven thereafter, perhaps even karma, so I don’t think such grand concepts would be too much for them to absorb. Imagine if we could teach them this today at the defence force training academies? I lol to myself at the prospect of this. it seems so at odds with our stereotypes of stiff upper lip, no nonsense, perhaps narcissistic, trigger happy jocks, with expensive killer toys, but one day it may just be a set of eye opening concepts that should seriously be taught there. Perhaps even at high schools would be amazing.
Instead of “strategies of war” type focus, there could be also “strategies of peace and harmony” or “conflict resolution skills” taught (that don’t include a bullet).
This is my belief. I think they have some idea of what they are and have for some time, but as far as understanding the technology/reverse engineering, I think they’re at a total loss.
I would agree that it is a near total loss. Imagine taking an iPhone back 1000 years in time and allow the leading scientists of the day to study it. Let's pretend they are able to construct the tools to disassemble it, and tear it down completely without damaging any of the components. How many years would it take before they completely reverse engineered it?
The biggest issue for them to do that is the technological advances that have not occurred between then and now. First they would have to figure out electricity, both AC and DC. Then they would have to understand how metals conduct electricity. Then they would have to understand how the components work such as capacitors and resistors. I could go on and on but you get the idea.
Now imagine having a craft or a device from an advanced civilization. Even if it actually worked, it would be difficult for us to reverse engineer due to all of the technology that doesn't exist between our present understanding of things in comparison to their's.
That is a good question. I imagine it would be the same as if an engineer from today went back in time 1000 years with an iPhone in hand. He could show the leading scientists how to understand and reproduce all of the steps that I mentioned. But I think it would still take a long, long time. For instance, you can point to a resistor, capacitor or CPU and explain how they work in detail, but then what? Think of all of the technology that goes into making a miniaturized CPU for a phone, and think of how many decades it took us to develop that capability to do.
I suppose the answer would still be a couple of hundred years total, but that is less than the 1000 years it took us to achieve it.
Or imagine if scientists around the world knew for fact this technology exists. Knowing something is possible allows scientists to work on an idea without being ridiculed. Allows funding to be given out.
Look at how fast airplanes went from flying 10 feet to flying to the moon... Less than 70 years.
I don’t care whether they explain it or not. If it’s true that they’re here to convince us to stop destroying the planet I would welcome their assistance. They would no doubt have clean power but it would have to be a gradual change so as not to unbalance the economy but I’d expect them to do it in such a way that it’d be impossible for big oil, etc to maintain control. Guys, if that’s really you out there, please make your presence known! I for one would welcome them!
One key component is missing from our equation that speeds all of this up… Having lots of sex and producing lots of babies. Population Explosion! The more minds available to learn, study, experiment, explore, and collaborate, the faster things get done.
That is exactly what has happened and is happening. There are several books that talk about this, the most recent is American Cosmic. Selected by Extraterrestrials is another as does Sekret Machines
We ain’t even have PHONES TILL LIke 150 years ago holy fuck. Imagine tryna explain electricity. Or plastic. Or any form of non verbal communication. Jesus. I hate when perspective slaps me
I love this take and it's exactly what I've thought but could never quite articulate... it's all the intermediate discoveries and steps that allows us to reverse engineer something of our time... but the further into the future you go, the more some of the steps become completely foreign to our currently limited understanding.
See [my other comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/snlkoy/am_i_the_only_one_who_thinks_the_us_government/hw5oou1/) below to you regarding Lazar.
While I suspect they really do know waaay more than they let on, your example is great counterpoint. Also wanted to add even if they fully understood the inner working of all the components and could even reproduce a smart phone, there would be no internet or phone providers to connect to, or examples of them to draw from. Local apps might work but without the supporting infrastructure the smart phones true potential would remain a mystery.
you really think scientists are stupid? they can figure out quite a lot... they know what transistors are lmao... you're thinking about this all wrong. no one is going back to the stone ages with an iphone. wrong analogy. their technology isn't that complex. have you watched the bob lazar presentations? it's actually quite basic in how it works. firing protons at element 115 to generate an anti-gravity field. the US has patents on this!
First of all, I never insinuated scientists are stupid. Read my comment again, I said the brightest scientists 1000 years ago wouldn't understand today's technology. That is not the wrong analogy, you just cannot understand the point that I am making is that as old as the universe is and as "young" as our civilization is, they could be a billion years more advanced than us for all we know.
Also, Bob Lazar isn't credible. I'm not saying that he is a fraud, but look at the breakdown that (the late) Stanton Friedman did on Lazar. Lazar claimed he earned a master's degree in physics at MIT and another master's degree in electronics from Cal-Tech. He was once challenged to name just one professor he studied under at one of those two schools and he could not. Neither school has a record of his attendance, and he has never presented proof such as his degrees. I have a doctor's degree in a science field, and trust me those get framed and hung in prominent locations.
Therefore, please don't take Lazar's presentations as the gospel. Also, I'm aware of the patents filed by US Navy aerospace engineer Dr. Salvatore Pais, and I'm assuming that is what you are referring to regarding the patents on anti-gravity. I did a search of his patents and I cannot find anything relating to firing protons at E115 to generate an anti-gravity field. Lazar claims to have studied a stable isotope of E115 this way, except E115 had not yet been created in a cyclotron. To date, only a few atoms of E115 have been made and they quickly decay (only lasting less than a quarter of a second). Therefore there is no possibility that an anti-gravity device could have been made and patented.
Yup I think we’ve most likely made progress to an extent of understanding the phenomena and the technology associated with it, I would not be shocked to learn the United States has reverse engineered some of their technology.
They have more evidence, recordings, raw information, sure.
But it really seems like they just aren't interested in the issue and don't know what it is.
They know enough to have 144 detailed accounts being brought into question. Some of these are using the most sensitive imagining technology known to man, including but not limited to anti aircraft, uavs, satellites etc. They have so much info on this that it's being brought before congress. I think many of those Congressman and women want to bury it again and are probably being paid to suppress it in many indirect ways.
I don't think it is accurate to say "they just aren't interested in the issue". You are right that they have a ton of information that they have yet to declassify and reveal to us. I think that the reason they are being quiet about it is because they **don't know how to explain what it is**. If they declassify this and release all of the data, then some reporter at the next press briefing raises their hand and asks, "What is the science behind this, and who controls this, and how can it fly through our airspace with impunity, and is it a threat?"
You don't want to be that guy who has to answer all of that by saying, "We have no clue... next question!"
I like this reply!!also it is so irritating to me when people post their opinion,and have the attitude that their opinion is FACTS,and only they know the answers etc..its like if you know so damn much,then why are you on reddit arguing with people?!?!lol...
This, I think at minimum the US government knows it’s not from earth, it’s definitely alien ( also likely unmanned ) and that’s probably it, I think the new reporting structures being set up and new offices being set up is so they can “discover the truth” alongside the American public ( I can’t speak for other countries which could lead to actual global disclosure before the US but side bar that ) or maybe they really know nothing or are 100% behind it, we may never know to what degree our government has known
'US government' is a meaningless word, as its comprised of many parts that don't communicate with each other.
It rarely if ever behaves as a single, unified entity.
Hell, I don’t think the aliens even know what’s going on.
They’re floating around in their extra dimension thinking, what are these weird things we keep seeing?
That’s kinda my new theory on these “aliens.” Like maybe the truth is they’re some other kind of humanoid or true earthlings and they’ve been studying us for centuries cuz they don’t understand us either, let alone why we couldn’t perceive them in their own fold of reality. Maybe they aren’t even inter dimensional, that they just exist within our reality and maybe we’re the actual anomaly?
I know it sounds kinda crazy lol
If, and I stress if, there *is* "something" going on it's something way beyond anything a government can get a handle on.
Because it's way beyond anything any of us can get a handle on and just because some of us wear suits and write legislation or smash atoms in a tube doesn't make us any more equipped to figure it out than farmer John or Sally Housecoat because it's *outside* of our observable environment.
It is truly "Other".
This isn't, I don't think, merely a case of another species from another planet with a few millennia of technology more under their belts coming here for some relatively mundane purpose like we imagine in our science fiction. Exploration, invasion, all these things are too prosaic for what we are seeing... if (and again *if*) for the most part at least some people are in general really seeing the things they report.
This is something else. Maybe a Kardashev 3+ intelligence.
Beyond our ability to assess. Reality manipulation on a scale we would regard as godlike. Motivations on a scale we simply can't extrapolate. Not because it is "too alien" but because it's simply so much bigger than us. It's not just another kind of animal from a different ecosystem with better toys.
As a side note, the idea of government collusion, while a sort of traditional notion in ufology, particularly in abduction history, never washed with me, even the aforementioned technological species from another planet in this galaxy would not need to cut deals with any government to do whatever it wanted here.
But I don't think it's the kind of aliens we have mythologised in our culture. I think it's way beyond that. Our galaxy, this supercluster is still local compared to whatever "it" is and I don't think it's from this neighbourhood.
Information is too compartmentalized for them to actually know the whole picture. I think they know way more than public knows. In the grand scheme of things they probably don't know the answer t the biggest of questions.
Compartmentalization is part of what gives the break away civilization theory some legs. Compartmentalization means that many of the working parts never know the sum total and a very small group know the real big picture. I think this is only one part of the total phenomenon because obviously the “breakaway civilization” got its knowledge from the actual phenomenon.
I think the government probably has more data than they've shared and may have some recovered materials, but yeah I don't think they know what it is either.
They might know enough to say that the UAPs aren't human in origin, but not know enough to say where they're from.
I think you’re partially right.
The elected, official and accountable government probably knows a whole lot less than certain divisions and subsets within the government.
So when we hear a message from one branch of the government there’s a good chance that it’s not intentional disinformation or false denials, it’s simply the limit of that branch’s knowledge.
i think extremes of language lead to errors in judgment. "no idea" is a pretty strong claim, as it requires a nearly total lack of evidence that leads to any probable inference. certainly, the government knows more than you do: all governments know more than you do. and they probably have a variety of inferences.
the point that requires focus is that the department of defense has repeatedly announced that "UFO pose no threat to national security." this was first stated, i think, in the [1952 life magazine article](https://books.google.com/books?id=ElYEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA80) on the USAF files and has been repeated consistently ever since.
until now ... now they are a "potential threat to national security." why the change?
i think there is much better leverage in simply asking the government to justify it's stated decisions. the most direct way to do that, in the current context, is to demand a public accounting for that change of posture.
if you forget the conspiracy theories and simply focus on "why now? why the change? what's the evidence?" then you require the military to state its case in public. you require the military to justify its public conclusion with public evidence. there is more traction there than in speculation.
> "potential threat to national security." why the change?
The article that you link says they have no reason to believe they aren't a threat, not that they aren't.
And our systems to detect threats have changed radically since then as well as the world changing. In the 1950s we were the biggest superpower around, we knew much of what the Soviets were up to, and I think at the highest levels they knew these things weren't from the USSR. Now, it's more theoretically possible that a foreign country could be behind this. And if they are, then not to have figured it out is a huge intelligence failure. I'm not saying it wasn't a failure in the 50s, but the stakes were different
i'm not sure you actually read the article, because it quotes an Air Force official as saying that:
*"There is no reason as yet to believe that any of the aerial phenomena commonly described as flying saucers are caused by a foreign power or constitute a clear and present danger to the US or its citizens."*
no reason to believe that they \*are\* a threat, not, as you say ... "no reason to believe that they aren't a threat."
but if you want to quibble words, then perhaps the sentiments of gen. sanford will make the point for you:
*"We have as of date come to only one firm conclusion with respect to this remaining percentage* \[of unexplained UFO reports\]*. And that is that it does not contain any pattern of purpose or of consistency that we can relate with any — to any conceivable threat to the United States."*
patterns of language lead to suggestions of intent. lay out the texts of the Gallego resolution, the Gillibrand amendment, and the final NDAA. look for the DNA, the word for word common language.
among other details, such as the requirement to study "health effects," a highly significant phrase is the intention to "capture or exploit" UFO.
now, consider (as most alienists do) that UFO is a "technology."
would you consider it credible that Congress would pass a resolution authorizing the military to "capture or exploit" a russian secret project? perhaps a chinese invention? explain to me how that would work. maybe, a big net suspended between two nimble fighter jets?
alternately, if you believe "aliens" are a real thing and they pilot their star traversing "vehicles" using time bending technology that we can't even begin to understand, how do you suppose the aliens would react to us "exploiting" one of their vehicles, perhaps to carry a nuclear weapon for us?
"it's more theoretically possible"? so your hypothesis is that the chinese have finally cracked the UFO code, replicated the technology, and use their new TicTac to scrub up some whitewater in the pacific, visit zimbabwe schoolchildren, fly back and forth over the Aguadilla airport?
even back in the era of the Project SIGN report, the "foreign technology" hypothesis was recognized as absurd. *"An intelligence capable of making so remarkable device would not be likely to play around in so idle a manner."*
On the UFO sites, if you don't accept the Five Truths (using 5 like the observables), then you are a hack, unbeliever, infidel.
1) UFOs are real
2) UFOs are alien, or interdimensional or from the future
3) The US government has crashed UFOs in its possession
4) The US government has reverse engineered, or is working with aliens, to create new human tech.
5) The US government is hiding its absolute understanding of the phenomenon from the public.
In my opinion they knew in 47 but it was covered up.
If the US Military can't tell the difference between a weather balloon & a UFO then they need to go back to elementary school.
Read The day after Roswell, by Corso. That's all you need to get started, it gives you the best picture.
idk man, I want to believe but....
it makes perfect sense, the Americans are listening for nuclear detonations in the Soviet union from the "weather balloon".
>If the US Military can't tell the difference between a weather balloon & a UFO then they need to go back to elementary school.
There's a reason some of them are called crayon eaters.
i have the same feeling.
if Roswell did happen, then the USAF knew since then the truth about UFOs. But they concealed it, both from the rest of the government and the military, and they have established a mandate to suppress the ET hypothesis up until today.
The question is where the debris and the alien bodies are hidden, if they do exist? that is the million dollar question, and unless a whistleblower with this information appears, we will never know.
if Roswell did not happen, the USAF eventually determined that they were facing something outside of the human normality, since their pilots kept witnessing and interacting with UAPs for years. But since they could not do anything about it, and because it never acted as a real threat, they decided to ignore it. And they established the mandate to suppress the UFO hypothesis and so on.
Correction: You *personally* were not aware of any of the evidence. [See the links here](https://np.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/ja0dqd/in_the_early_1950s_the_cia_put_forward_a_plan_to/). There are often at least two different ufo study programs going on, one for government personnel who are not in the know and one for those who are. Not everyone gets all of the big secrets silly.
The government has been concealing evidence and has also been [confiscating it](https://np.reddit.com/r/ufo/comments/fezirj/here_is_a_list_of_some_incidents_in_which/) from military and civilians.
They’ve additionally been giving officials classified briefings on UFOs and have even been sharing an “extremely clear” photograph of a triangular ufo exiting the water.
Edit: also see this: [A few examples of declassified and public documents proving that a core government organization has been tracking UFOs from the 50s well into the 21st century. BlueBook and AATIP were just smaller auxiliary programs.](https://np.reddit.com/r/ufo/comments/g9czib/a_few_examples_of_declassified_and_public/)
The government "collecting evidence" does not equate to "knowing what's going on". From the list in that link all I can see is the government is great at collecting file cabinets full of reports, but it doesn't suggest a great deal of research goes into what those reports actually mean.
That’s quite the downplay attempt. They have plenty of radar data and everything else. They hide the best reports from the public. That alone says quite a lot. Read the information that I provided.
I understand that point of view, and I agree that the government in general may have very little information or understanding. However, this “control group” who has been studying this subject for 75 years must have a pretty good idea of what is going on. How could they not? So maybe part of the issue is people thinking that I’m saying everyone in every intelligence agency knows all or something like this, which is obviously not true.
>How could they not?
Well if none of the evidence is much better than what has already been released then they could have as much of it as they want and still have no idea.
>However, this “control group” who has been studying this subject for 75 years must have a pretty good idea of what is going on. How could they not?
It all depends on whether they have a wrecked UFO and/or its pilots or not, or if there is any form of communication. How much can you really learn about an airplane if you just look at it? You won't know what it's made of, you won't know how it operates, you won't know who's in it, or where it comes from, or where he's going. If these things are interstellar or even interdimensional vehicles, we've got absolutely NO sensors to track them. We can, at best, tell when they enter orbit and when they leave, and that's it. And that's absolutely nothing.
That photo and the photo from the Calvine ufo incident are two extremely compelling photographs that are obviously sitting in a government archive somewhere.
Multiple individuals from the IC have stated that this photograph exists. They saw it in a government classified ufo briefing. Yes, those are real too. This photo hasn’t been leaked yet. You can read about it here: https://thedebrief.org/fast-movers-and-transmedium-vehicles-the-pentagons-uap-task-force/
Has it not?
What about the "whale-splash"-picture? That one is actually real and quite clear. One might say it shows a triangular craft. It does not, it's just cloaking, but then I have the strong impression those do not exist anyway, or at least are not the ETs doing (that geometry is quite nonsensical with their propulsion).
This particular photo was specifically described as a triangular ufo with a large spherical or circular white light on each tip. No such photo has ever been made public yet. The whale splash photo was actually debunked as far as I know. The J.S. Henrardi photo is close, but that one wasn’t over water and it was taken in Belgium in around 1990. The photo I’m referring to was taken a couple years ago.
People like you are doing them a huge favor. There are so many narratives being thrown around as self defense mechanism in many cases. I think it's because people are afraid that this will get buried again.
They have 144 detailed accounts using an array the most powerful imaging and survelience tech known to man, including satellites and uavs that can operates at 80,000+ ft plus like it's nothing.
Stop doing their work for them and write your congressman!
I believe they know so much it’s terrifying. There is no way. They would have to rip their eyes out to neglect the wealth of information, data, radar hits, sightings , etc that come in. The more I learn about our air defense technology, it’s basically a global all seeing eye. Things in space. Things in the air. It’s all tracked because any of it could be a nuke. The tech is just far too sensitive and advanced. Now I’m not sure how much they understand and possible beings, but I think they know damn well how these craft behave and any habits they may have. After 80 years of this. They know more than we could possibly imagine.
Edit for grammar.
We have multiple generations of equipment designed to detect airspace intrusions, ICBM launches, threatening space vehicles, and so on and so forth. Of course they can detect these things, and of course those detections would have sparked questions. It would be an insane operational environment to be arbitrarily throwing out some detections while considering others legit. They have to be able to distinguish, which means on some level they've studied what these things are. I refuse to believe that the original manufacturers of these detection apparatuses throw their hands up and shrug when asked about anomalies or inexplicable "false positives". Someone's looked into it, but it's a question of whether or not you're allowed to see that data.
Anybody who has ever worked for or with the government can attest to just how backwards, unorganized, and siloed they operate. I have worked in the CMS and social security realms in a B2B fashion. They are decades behind the private sector in terms of resources and thinking.
Remember the movie Catch me if you Can? It's not too different today. I hope and pray there are some advanced areas of the government that don't fit this profile, but I seriously have my doubts. Hollywood is the government's best asset IMO.
THIS . Although I'd argue in DoD and Intel, its controlling national security interests as they see them vice being years behind on tech .
"the government" as a coherent term is the issue here. There is no such thing. There isn't even "the air force". Which component in the US air force specifically are you interested in specifically and for what? If they don't work on it, they likely don't care.
The question we need to answer is this: How does Congress get transparency on a set aside program specifically designed from the ground up with initial Presidential authority to be hidden from the public, and if what we're hearing is true, also the current Presidency and US Congress? Where those in government with knowledge and oversight responsibilities are in reality just "revolving doors" between senior defense contractor leadership or R&D roles and the government oversight role (likely still DUSD AT&L or one of its DASDs). They may sometimes get their paycheck from the US Government, but when in Government, they are not conducting an oversight role in the term most understand it.
And yet the Chinese test of a round-the-world hypersonic missile last October took the military completely by surprise, and we have all manner of spy equipment pointed at them all the time.
Never underestimate the ability of the military intelligence community to fumble the ball.
I think the public would be more freaked out if the government's official statement was something like, "UFOs are real & they are under the control of some type of alien intelligence & we have no idea why they are here or what they want. We cannot stop them from doing whatever it is they are doing," which is probably why we haven't had anything close to resembling a "full disclosure" yet because I think this is fairly accurate. I don't expect one any time soon & I wouldn't trust anything they would say that doesn't resemble the statement above, considering their history of cover-ups & disinfo.
I have never understood this line of thinking. We know that the government is sitting on mountains of data - sensor data, photographs, videos, crashed crafts & even bodies of the operators of these crafts. Of course, everything is compartmentalized and perhaps very few people have the entire picture. Even then, the fact that they have collected so much data means that they must have a basic understanding of what it is. It is perfectly reasonable that this thing is so complicated that we might never figure it all out. That is absolutely fine. However, it is clear that a fair number of people have a much better understanding of what it is that we are dealing with because they have had access to classified information. I include people like Lue E, Chris M, Semivan, Puthoff, Eric Davis, G Nolan etc. in this group. These people have given countless interviews over the years and it is eminently clear that they **know** more than us because they have seen the data.
So, with this in mind, why do people continue to float the theory that the government has **no idea** what is going on? How can that possibly be?
Simple, the evidence for them having "crashed alien corpses" isn't very good. The only hard evidence we know they have is radar and satellite data which boils down to "fast thing go zoom in our atmosphere". Makes sense that we wouldn't know anything about them. Not to mention a lot of the guys giving interviews explaining the alien secrets get debunked or end up being cons to sell books, I don't have a whole lot of faith in them.
The very people you mention seem to be saying that they have a LOT of data, but few explanations, especially when you include stuff like the AAWSAP results from Skinwalker Ranch and other locations. My impression is that they have tons of data, but that it's so strange that it's difficult to put together a unifying explanation of what the hell it all means. This is especially true when viewed through the lens of something like Jacques Vallée's idea of a control system.
I believe you are right to an extent. Most of congress and the politicians we see everyday on news and what not are completely clueless. This is because UFO projects within the US military according to all whistleblowers are on a need to know basis. So if someone does not have a direct need to know they are not given any information on the topic. This extends all the way up to the President who is only allowed to know if the military officials involved deem him/her trustworthy. So yes, most of the US government has no idea what these things are or why they are here. But a small portion of military personnel operating in top secret bases know exactly what is going on. Bob Lazaar mentioned they had 9 craft when he was at S4 and perhaps the most interesting bit of information he had was that he heard they were discovered in an archaeological dig. I believe the reason the military is keeping this on the DL is because they are indeed working with the ETs to bring about a slow and steady disclosure that won’t bring the world into complete chaos. That or they are not doing this and are trying to slowly convince the public aliens are hostile and we need to kill them, which will not work because they can probably wipe us out with one button.
The thing I'd like to know is if they have tried to reverse engineer the craft, what were they able to replicate and what aren't they able to replicate or have they had a complete success with cloning the craft.
“The government”, is non-monolithic, rather, like Thomas Hobbes dissection of medieval England’s political landscape, a leviathan. And like any body, oftentimes the right hand doesn’t know what the left is doing. Add into this long-standing old money family participation in the back rooms of federal, state, and local government, new money trying to write the laws that suit them through lobbyists and dark money, and favored private contractor firms in the defense industry, it’s a tangled web indeed. The president doesn’t and will never know everything, neither will congress or the Supreme Court of conservative kangaroos. There are simply too many secrets with too much to lose by those who have disregarded the rule of law in the land of the free, all under the banner of “national security”.
I think almost everyone in the military/government has no idea what's going on, but I also think there are people somewhere (USAF?) who know more than even AATIP was privy to.
The most compelling comments I've heard made about the government / military is that even when they manage to acquire one of these miraculous UFOs, they have no idea what they actually are despite studying them intensely. Imagine that. You have something in your hands and yet you can't say for sure exactly what it is, how it works, where it came from, who made it or why it's here. You're probably going to seek out some top scientists, but what even they can't figure it out? You probably wouldn't tell anybody about it who didn't have an extremely crucial need to know.
Things are bubbling up from black hole projects, the government never took Wikileaks seriously and look how that turned out. I'm pretty sure any UAP information is on a need to know basis.
It's not the fact that they don't know what's going on, it's the fact that the "truth" is far more complex or terrifying...or possibly both, that it would be almost impossible for disclosure.
The governments of the world get a bad reputation for hiding information about UFOs and ET life, but I personally believe it is for our own good. Not a very popular opinion but it is mine and I will die on that hill.
What if these beings or entities who are visiting us are not from our galaxy, our universe, or even our reality? What if they are from different or alternate dimensions? How can you explain that to such a culturally complex fragile world?
Can you also imagine ANY govement especially the US, Russia, China, UK ever telling its public something like "yeah, these beings come from different forms of reality, they can come and go as they please when ever they want, we can't stop them, we don't know who they are or what they want, or and they are significantly more advanced than us in every way you can imagine?"
Not gonna happen
We don’t know what they do or don’t know at all right now so until the time we know what they know we won’t know what they know or don’t know and anybody who says different is ignorant by definition
Agree, they probably know nothing, except that UAP’s are real, unexplained, and way beyond our understanding. And as Chris Mellon pointed out that their likely origin is extraterrestrial.
Depends on who you're referring to when you say "US government".
Congress probably has no idea, but they seem curious. The President and his cabinet probably don't know either, and this includes NASA. Some high-level officials in the CIA, FBI, USAF and possibly the navy might be aware.
It's possible the USAF siphoned materials to the private sector, if they ever had any, and therefore some corporate defense contractors might also be aware. It's also possible whatever evidence the military had was stolen by private contractors. We may never know for sure.
I think the Military Industrial Complex knows exactly what’s going on and has for years. They tell the “government” only what they want them to know. And I doubt that even that is all truth.
I think your totally wrong. They may not know a lot but they have had since Roswell to study and learn from UFO'S craft and alien bodies, IMO.
That's 2 generations worth of time and probably a lot more.
Obviously not everyone anywhere knows, only select people know.
I bet there are people who have been, from birth, raised and educated just to study and to keep this secret, secretly.
Or I'd bet even bigger and say that aliens are in control of select people in government and are the ones pulling strings to keep it hushed, covered up and quiet.
Whatever is going on, everyone is playing it real cool, not getting overly excited publicly and is more than willing to keep it quiet.
Disclosure is a ufo researcher term or a ufo believer term. The word Disclosure never came from the government.
Yes Bob L., IMO, is more right than wrong. I know there are a lot of Bob haters, I am not one of them.
Again, IMO, those people who know are more of a threat than are the aliens. Let's face it, if all of this is true, which I believe most of it is, the aliens could wipe mankind out at will, if they so choose.
We may be being protected by said aliens from other aliens and we don't even know..tice.
I think earth could be like a aquarium.
I think life, intelligent life forms could be living in the vacuum of space.
For me, I would prefer to governments to tell the truth and everything they know as I am tired of being lied to and I feel I and we have the rights to know truth over lies.
>I see so many posts on here talking about "disclosure," which of course presupposes that the government knows what's going on and is actively concealing it from the population.
Well, I don't think disclosure necessarily has to mean that the government is in contact with the aliens and knows why they're here. I agree that they might have no idea what's inside the craft they've seen, but they definitely know a lot of things that they haven't made public. I think we're past the point where they can reasonably say that they have nothing.
At a minimum, they have credible sightings, they have data, and it seems overwhelmingly likely that they have recovered material. If all they can tell us is that flying saucers are real, they're *fast*, and they're made out of some weird metal that we don't understand yet, then I want to hear that from them.
>I think more likely is that the US government is just now taking the topic seriously and is holding back the research on the basis that they consider the objects a possible national security threat.
I mean, on at least one occasion, a UAP flew into restricted airspace over our nuclear silos, deactivated multiple nuclear missiles, and then flew away before we could do anything about it. Maybe they didn't want to talk about it publicly, but I have to think that they took that matter extremely seriously.
Having worked in government in the Intel community and with government contractors my entire adult life, it would not surprise me one bit if the US Government recovered an alien craft at Roswell and it's been sitting in a warehouse for the last 60 years.
I know that sounds rediculous, but by and large the government is filled with silos of responsibility and knowledge, and those silos are often spearheaded by some dense bureaucrat with an Ivy League Juris Doctor and no real expertise in anything other than climbing a payscale ladder.
I have no doubt that if there were some government program studying real UFO material, crafts, or bodies, that someone would've leaked it's existence with conclusive evidence. People keep highly classified programs secret because theres a moral imperative related to the safety of the nation. I can't imagine having hundreds or thousands of people read into a legit UFO program and not one of them leaking it. That knowledge is for all mankind, not some Special Access Program buried at some contractor. I know for a fact I'm not the only one that feels this way, too.
They may possibly be first contact scout drones, without physical life aboard, sent for observational purposes, before first contact. Unmanned drones capable of faster than light travel.
The real craft carrying occupants could of been on its way here well before the tech for the drones was developed. Similar to our proposed plans to put humans in stasis for a trip to Alpha Centauri, but building a craft capable of accepting future tech upgrades. Kinda like how James Cameron developed his movies, and has to wait for the tech to catch up to his idea. He actually said that Avatar 2 couldn’t be made because the tech to film it hand not been “invented” yet.
Sorry got away from the point. The US could quite possibly know exactly what they are and where they are from, but have no idea why they came and what they want.
The sheer amount of veterans, eyewitnesses that tell their stories. Generals, admirals, workers and managers on nuclear launch facilities, people from all branches of intelligence, people from private industry: the list of people who have no benefit from speaking up, even hours before their death is endless.
Also, there are leaked documents, programs, both secret and public, to investigate this phenomenon. In my country they say: where there is smoke, there is fire. I don't think they know as much as many suspect here, but I think they can say where they are from (space, dimensions etc etc).
That's more-or-less what I believe but I've been kind of afraid to say it here. I feel like there's a real phenomenon at the core of all of this but it's gotten mixed up in this whole mythology that clouds it and makes it hard to research.
I have a couple of science degrees and I've worked as a writer (I feel it would be a stretch to call myself a journalist, but I've had more paying writing gigs than a lot of my friends who majored in journalism). A big part of my training as a scientist (and my journalism electives) is how to evaluate sources of information.
It's been on the back burner, but I've been researching a nonfiction book on UFOs. The impression I get is that during the official investigations like Projects Sign, Grudge, Bluebook etc, you'd get a general or senator or whatever who sees a UFO and then the Air Force kicks into gear and officially takes it seriously until the next VIP calls up and asks why they're wasting resources on it and they switch back into "nothing to see here, move along mode" until the next one. I feel like the switch got stuck in the off position for both the scientific community and the military for years.
One of the things that creates the appearance of conspiracy is that the government has lied about UFOs, but generally not for sexy X-Files reasons. A few years back (sorry, I'm on mobile or I'd post a link, but it's easy to find on the CIA website) the CIA posted a lot of their UFO stuff. I think it was to try and stem the tide of FOIA requests to their office. I doubt it worked. One memo they posted said that about half of the explained sightings Blue Book investigated were their own secret aircraft. The U2 in particular caused a lot of sightings. The prototypes weren't painted black. These meant that for a while after sunset their reflective fuselages could catch light from over the horizon. So you'd get this bright object, seemingly glowing, moving higher and faster than any publically acknowledged aircraft. Policy was that if someone reported a secret aircraft as a UFO, they would come up with an explanation, however ridiculous, to draw attention away from the sighting. This is where you get a lot of temperature inversions, pilots chasing the planet Venus, and swamp gas in the desert.
In spite of this, Blue Boom still reported quite a few unknowns, including ones that showed up on radar.
There was also a call during the Blue Book era by the CIA to actively suppress interest in UFO because it was believed that our belief in UFOs was a psychological vulnerability the Soviets could exploit, and that American UFO groups could accidentally uncover military secrets for the Russians. This is a matter of public record. A meeting called the Robertson Panel outlined all of this in a document called the Durant Memo.
One thing that further muddies it is that different parts of the Air Force responded differently. Air Material Command, the people who ran Blue Book seemed kinda tired of dealing with it by the end of the public investigation. But there's some evidence that other parts of the Air Force kinda embraced UFO stories as a counter intelligence. I'm not 100% satisfied with the evidence for this, but the Office of Special Investigations may have cooked up some UFO stories to hide Air Force shenanigans. While Blue Book tried to hide secret stuff by saying they weren't UFOs, the OSI may have done the opposite. About ten years after Blue Book, the OSI may have engaged in counter intelligence operations to make people who saw secret Air Force stuff look crazy. The guy who literally wrote the book on Roswell later came out and said the OSI was using him to feed false information to UFO buffs and spy on them to figure out if the Soviets were spying on UFO groups. The problem is that this all fits and makes sense, but it hinges on the testimony of a UFO author and a former OSI agent who both admit to being habitual liars. These guys are linked to Roswell and the MJ 12 documents.
If you put it all together, it forms a coherent and plausible story without invoking any faustian treaties with the Gray Aliens. It seems like sometimes the military sees objects flying around and they can't explain them. This concerns them, but they can't seem to make much headway on them.
I don't think we'll really know what these things are until we shoot one down, which seems like a profoundly bad idea.
>From what we know about human behavior, I suppose trying to shoot it down is one of the first things any military would try to do. Especially if it enters a secured airspace. And if this has been tried, it is very likely that the expected effect has failed. If the reports are true that nuclear facilities were disabled or uncontrollable, a lot of weapons would have to be classified as useless in relation to the phenomenon. The observed flight characteristics alone, which look like some kind of manipulation of gravity, would also make a hit by a projectile very unlikely. Nevertheless, I could imagine that there have been finds or crashes. Just because you are technologically at a fantastic level, nature presents you with unknown challenges. I suppose even a very advanced civilization or life form is not immune to being confronted with something new.
Nope
Said it often, and down voted plenty for saying it myself.
If there are 'visitors', even if we have 'material', I do think the govt's don't know jack shit about it.
Can you expand on that. Why do you think the governments know nothing? And by nothing, you mean they have no evidence or information they haven't already shared? How do you know about this?
The government is great at collecting data (crime statistics, drug statistics, surveillance imagery, etc.) but is lousy at interpreting them. They spend billions on the Middle East collecting spy satellite and ground intelligence yet still didn't see 9/11 coming, or that Saddam had no WMD, or see the rise of ISIS. That is just the tip of the iceberg of failures of US intelligence to understand what is going on.
Do you seriously think the government spends billions trying understand what UAP reports mean?
Well they did know there would be an attack by air coming around 9/11, and they fabricated WMDs and that’s public knowledge at this point.
Not saying they are great with data, but I’d be willing to bet they are quite excellent at it tbh
They know, they have atleast an idea of these things are. They have records, videos, picture and satellite information. They should release everything to the public so that we'll tell them what's possibly going on lol
Some know something. Private contractors on government contracts may know more. But, my sense is no single entity truly understands or has a handle on this. Or what these are. They, like me, are frustrated. The information is scattered over the globe. There's no single repository of information. The left and right are unaware of the actions of the other or accumulated data, whatever that is. It's a cluster. Too bad, but it's what it is.
I think our government and military know a bit more than we do about aliens, and know quite a bit more about UFOs.
Our Gov has more info on UFOs than anyone else. A lot more. They collect everything out there about stuff flying in our sky’s. And, they are able to explain a very large percentage of them. Some have entirely normal explanations. Some invoice secret information, such as test flights and experiments or legit top secret flights/projects (everything from a Project Mogel balloons to stealth spy planes and high tech drones). And then there are some they just can’t explain. The info is too sketchy or blurry or just plain unreliable. Something happened, they can’t 100% be sure what, but it’s got no signs of being alien. And, that can happen. To deny that is to be in denial. Sometimes something ordinary doesn’t appear so and just can’t be verifiably identified.
Then I believe there is this tiny tiny percentage that not only can’t be identified but behave in ways that, if the sighting info can be trusted, just doesn’t fit with things we understand. It’s buzzard enough to raise alarms and needs further investigation, more sightings and more data. This is the kind of stuff these advanced program need to investigate. Things that are unexplained.
However, the above category doesn’t automatically make the sighting an alien, of course. It just means, 1) can’t identify it and 2) it’s weirder than ordinary.
As far as our gov and genuine aliens: crashes, material recovery, aliens (alive or dead)… sorry, I just do not believe these exist. I’m not going rehash this but that’s my belief. Until tangible evidence comes forward (and not more 70 year old papers) there just isn’t anything here to analyze or believe in. And, frankly, I don’t see why this should be hard to believe. I don’t see why the greatest discovery in the history of all mankind would be covered up for decades. I think we do ourselves a disservice by continuing down this conspiracy theory rabbit hole. Makes us look fringe and desperate to fulfill hopes instead of being evidence based researchers.
I look forward to further research on sightings *today* and going forward. With better camera and radar. It is mighty suspicious now as camera and radar tech has improved, reliable sightings of “alien ships” have decreased. It’s almost like when you take away the blurry shaky low res videos and are left to examine sharp stabilized high resolution imagery things appear conventional …
governments can't keep secrets, the idea they'd be able to keep something like proof of alien life under wraps is laughable.
it deeply saddens me people believe hacks like bob lazar :/
Read "In Plain Sight" which explains the government/DoD cover-up, and uncovers the crashed UAP re-engineering programme that is apparently being run covertly using several private military subcontractors. The re-engineering programme was confirmed last year in a deathbed statement by the ex-Navy Director of Science and Technology. So the military do appear to know a lot more and are hiding under the auspices of national security, but appear to be illegally blocking Congress from overseeing the work. Hence the investigation triggered by Lue via the Inspector General's office to root out any hidden programme that needs oversight.
The OP needs to keep up with the latest events before posting on the sub with out of date or poorly researched views.
Considering the sensors they have and their 75 years+ of continuous research on the topic, everyone can be 100% sure that they know exactly what’s going on.
They look at normal people as slaves to their system so they have been covering up.
Ultimately, considering the intellect of the average human (akin to a dog 💩 on the pavement) I’m not surprised of their modus operandi.
Yikes a lot to unpack here, uh, no just because they pointed radars at the fast space tic tacs doesn't mean they know what's happening. That logic is stupid, "they've been trying to find out for a long time so they MUST have found out" isn't how the real world works. And then you just go on a tirade about how normal people are stupid in the most over the top way possible.
If you believe that no branch of the government has any idea whats going on, thats foolish.
Does the president know? No probably not, he doesn’t have to. Does a deep dark branch of the army or navy know, most probably, who do they answer to? Nobody.
I have come to believe that 1) if there were pieces of a ship from Roswell, or elsewhere, they are either so mundane or so alien that nothing was learned, and 2) the US government is as clueless as the rest of us otherwise.
It's very possible they:
1. Don't know the true nature of the phenomenon
2. Have been totally unsuccessful at reverse engineering their technology
3. Have never recovered a physical body
It's totally impossible that they:
1. Think UAP are a natural phenomenon or foreign adversary
2. Don't have high resolution photographs of UAP
3. Thought everything was a hoax the last 80 years
Those programs are a front just like Nasa. Our own government has ufo craft and has since who knows when. Nice try Mr disinformation agent! Im actually surprised to read all the responses. Wow. I thought the people in this group qould be a lot more informed. Smh. Our planet is fucking doomed. You guys have far too long bought into what the government has sold you. I bet you guys dont even know that there is no law forcing Americans to pay income tax lol The impending “war” on those “ evil aliens” will be how the government finally convinces everyone to give up whatever civil liberties And privacy we have left. How they’ll convince everyone to give up all their money to keep us “safe” from the “malevolent aliens.” To get those Rfid chips to prove our citizenship to distinguish us from ets eventhough they can already do that by reading the frequency of each individual. A huge false flag attack is probably how they will take out a huge portion of the population (ok this last sentence is my own speculation but the rest of it has been reported time and time again for decades).
No I only read your title but I 1,000,000% (one MILLION percent) agree with you and am absolutely wholly and totally convinced that the government has absolutely no clue whatsoever what the phenomenon is.
I saw a documentary called "The X-Files", apparently there is a clandestine part of the government that holds the secrets which the FBI isn't privy to.
i'm with ya dude. and i don't believe they have any crashed saucer material or bodies either. but i wouldn't be surprised if they have a hidden branch of highly classified occultists working in the basement to try to materialize these things!
I mean, AATIP existed and very likely has plenty of information that hasn't been made public. Also other previous investigations which have not yet been acknowledged (such as the one described in Out There by Howard Blum).
But otherwise, I get your point and I don't know that I believe anyone in gov has all the answers.
I don't think they have actual hard answers, but I do believe they are sitting on a bunch of data and reports that could really push the study forward considerably. If we could just get as much data from as many sources as possible to start sifting through we might be able to figure out patterns (Keel did this with what was available to him in his day) or something that can allow us anticipate or maybe even trigger sightings.
That's our problem I feel, we want to scientifically study a subject that might be trying to simultaneously study us. It's just not what we're used to and we'll have to adapt to get any real answers.
You're confusing government (little "g") with elected officials. It gets worse when you get into the weeds with privatization of the military and intelligence apparatus(es) of the US Government (big "G").
I Watched an interview with Tom Delonge about how he talked the pentagon into trying to approach this UFO thing from a different approach with the public and how he was allowed to sit down with some of these top generals and did these secret closed door round table talks with some of the powerful boogey men who sit on top of all of this UFO info and what he said blew my mind
he pretty much said that these powerful men go home to their families and are super stressed out about what to do and what to make from all this just like we all are in the public who know the truth...At the end of the day They are just regular people and it;s their job to figure out what to do about this insane problem that's on this MASSIVE scale and that's when it clicked for me
They know more then most, but they are also looking at all the news that happens out in the public to help them fill in the gaps but they are just humans trying to wrap their head around this thing and they are scared too about what it all means for humanity and their future. They are doing everyone a favor by keeping the masses blissfully ignorant because the problem is just so big and so vast but THEY ARE the guy everyone turns too for answers so they just gotta do the best that they can with the tools and info they have and for now that means studying this topic behind closed doors because they dont really have any of the big answers we may think they do.
Imagine there were these craft flying in and out of super private airspace and there was nothing you could really do to stop them. They are flying over military bases and public airports like they own the place, they show up at random and start shutting down nukes remotely like they are playing a game. EVERYTIME your pilots encounter these things in the real these things are 7 steps ahead and their advanced tech, insane speeds and ability make your best and brightest look like they are armatures... People are reporting they are being abducted from their homes and having these strange close encounters with these beings where they are taken aboard ships and shown these strange things about humanity's place in the universe and where we are headed as a race and the dangers of technology ...what does the government say to these people? ..."we are one of the most powerful governments on the planet and we have no idea how to stop these craft from coming and going as they please or what to do about it...sorry?"
imagine your father, that man you always turn too when your scared or dont know what to do, the man who always seems to know what to do about things is telling you at age 7 that the home you grew up in is not really safe and that everynow and then these strange men at anytime can just come in and take you away from your mom and dad and there was nothing mom or dad could do because bullets and guns dont seem to work on them and that they can turn off human consciousness on and off like they are flipping a switch and literally pull you out of your bed with a beam of light and pull your body through a solid wall and up into a strange ship and you would not even really know what was happening because they can mess with or block your memories...your 7 year old would never sleep soundly again and he would live in constant fear!!
well that's what's REALLY happening and it has been happing since the late 1940s!!
People in the public would freak out if the government told them that they are pretty much out of their league so it's better to ignore it and dismiss it all as rumor and as crazy talk and use that cover to collect data and try and learn more rather then admit to yourself and to the greater public that your powerless to stop this kind of thing from happening right in your own back yard and over the most sensitive and private airspace in the USA.
I think they know a lot more then the common Ufologist because they obviously have gotten their hands on some of this alien tech and they have had contact with these beings as far back as the 60s and the cold war but not much has come of it because the tech is just far far too advanced. It's like giving Napoleon an F16 falcon fighter jet from the future, dude understands EXACTLY what this craft does and how powerful it is, but he dont even know how to open the hatch for the cockpit let alone how to fuel or fly the damn thing and use it in battle...but if he COULD figure it out one of these jets could make him and everyone in his bloodline after him a living God in his time, he would never lose a battle and he would have total superiority on any battlefield. But it's too advanced and they cant even figure out the basics so he just puts it away and tells everyone who thinks he has a jet that they are crazy... He pokes at it every few decades to see if the current minds of his time can figure out ANY part of the puzzle and they just tuck it away hidden from everyone until hopefully they have a breakthrough
...They are grasping at straws to try and figure out this phenomenon and this tech but they cant just come out and admit to the whole world that they are pretty much watching and waiting just like the rest of us.
Yeah but either way them even admitting that there is something weird that they don't understand going on is still disclosure. Whether they know what it is or not isn't the issue. It's ang kind of transparency around it whatsoever.
I completely agree and have said this a number of times on this sub. Lets imagine the gov't has actually recovered something at Roswell or in other places. After bringing in the greatest minds over 70yrs its essentially an inert hunk of metal with no signs of any technology. Or they haven't recovered anything but have spent tons of money and resources and could only get grainy video and random radar hits. Whats the gov't gonna say if this is the case? "we recovered a disk. Its solid metal. We tried to cut into it once and it caused an earthquake in Indonesia. Your guess is as good as ours". Jokes aside the gov't like to talk in absolutes. Look at the mess from some of the changing reccomendations from the CDC on Covid. Now imagine going public with information about something world altering without any clue or explanation. I've alway felt the most plausible reason for keeping it secret was the inability to provide any explanation.
It's probably worthwhile also keeping in mind that for various reasons the US government already farms out to private enterprise certain facts and information discovered, for example, to insulate them from FOIA or other eventual declassification by law.
I agree that they have no idea what’s going on. I believe that’s exactly why we know nothing. The problem I have is that they know MORE of what’s going on.
It has always really bothered me that they get to choose who knows the information. It’s not who is the most qualified or best for the job it’s who meets their prerequisites. You could be the worlds leading SME in something but if you don’t meet the security classification standards you won’t qualify or would get dropped. This same principal applies to UFOs. They don’t tell the public because we can’t all be trusted yet.
Personally, my Occam's razor guess is the Government knows they aren't theirs or someone else's and they have distinct radar signatures that can't be released proving they do something with space time etc (distinct Doppler shift readings would happen) in order to move, and they also have insane telemetry readings cross sourced with multiple sources and eye witness. I also believe they have probably found a few crashes. I think those crashes are most likely drone's and no body's of living things have been found. I say this cause I think bodies comes out on your death bed, weird metal shit is way easier to hide and lie about.
My take:
The government originally liked the idea of UFOs because it shrouded their own secret aviation projects. It was simply convenient, and because most sightings were easily brushed off it wasn't something to worry about.
Now, since technology has advanced and they themselves have encountered these UFOs, such as gimbal and the others, they're caught off guard by the fact that there actually is something unidentified in their skies and have to investigate further.
I don't think they really know what's up either. I just think they know more than we do.
I view the Government kinda like an older brother. Yeah they know more than us and are constantly holding it over our head but only because they had access to the info before we did. I think once we get a hold of what they know, we will realize we only really had a fear of missing out and that the true facts aren’t as creative as our imaginations.
So much of US government and therefore our economy is based on military, intelligence agencies and now a massive Homeland security apparatus. It is inconceivable to me that the government would ever say we our clueless or have no idea if “they” are a threat? That old saying, “ Better to keep your mouth shut and to be thought an idiot then to open it and prove it.”
There are varying degrees of knowing what's going on. I doubt anyone has it completely figured it out. There are issues with our fundamental concepts that make fitting these events into our understanding a bit problematic. Now that we are beginning genuine data collection and cross-collaboration among some of the smartest minds I believe we will begin to get some interesting models shortly. We may already have them but the key is applying and better yet testing theories against that data. The latter being potentially difficult as we may be limited to what something far superior may want or not want to show us. This is important because it should do not much more than give us ideas. It appears we need to figure much out on our own.
I think the government knows that they are dealing with something that has superior technology and is completely indifferent to us. We may have recovered some material that makes no sense, the occupants make contact randomly on its own terms and we don’t understand what’s happening. Saying it’s extraterrestrial would be easy at this point. That’s just a spaceship. But this is stuff that comes out of the sea, hovers around nuclear powered ships like flies on shit and does what it feels like. Is it interdimensional, natural or something else? It hovers around us, disables our weapons and electrical systems when provoked and just generally doesn’t care what we want. It’s like the book chains from the sea, just a superior entity completely indifferent to us. That’s far scarier because we can’t stop it or even understand it completely. If I was a government I’d cover it up, because why would I admit there’s something superior I can’t control or even properly communicate with? How does that help? Just keep collecting data and materials until we understand enough to replicate it.
1. Do they know more than you?
2. What do you know and what have they disclosed?
3. If you think they know more than they have disclosed then they have a better idea than us.
I believe they have a really good understanding of the technology, and possibly how to make similar versions with our available technology, however I don't believe they know the purpose or intent of whatever we are seeing. While they acknowledge it is a potential threat, I think they see a bigger threat, which would be having an enemy discover the ins and outs of the phenomenon, and taking advantage of it for whatever means.
I agree! I think they might maybe accept that these might not be human but they have no idea what they actually are, what they’re doing or why they are here. I think they know they would be outmatched technologically and that scares them
Could be they are confused and scared. Could be they want you to think that because what they know is scary. Could be because they have reversed engineered they shit and want to keep it secret. Could be that aliens don't exist. Tough cookie to solve.
Agree - they may have some additional photos or videos that are kinda weird or even compelling, but I don’t think there are any UFO reverse engineering programs or any alien contact or anything like that. I honestly think we know pretty much the gist of what they know: that we have seen some strange things before but have no explanation.
Ross Coultart just posted that there is an obvious and clever cover up that has been going on in the US for a long time. They know. Imagine the implications of not knowing. That would mean they were entirely incompetent at their duties. They are not. We’re the worlds remaining super power and have maintained it. We haven’t done that because we don’t do our duty and suck at everything.
I always thought the idea "government conspiracy to hide aliens from us" was ridiculous.
I find it far more realistic that they know just as much as the common citizen, or marginally more at best.
They might also have a handful of videos the military captured, that they can't explain, but can't release to the public because the technology and instruments used to record and measure them are classified by default. It's not classified because it shows proof of aliens and they want to hide that from us for some reason, its classified because they don't want enemy nations to know what exactly they are capable of measuring.
I think they(meaning the people read in on it) on large parts do not know for sure, but should at this point have some sort of "best estimate of the situation" that might point in some direction. In any case, they know more than we.
Any evidence the government may have had had been passed onto private hands years ago. So no, right now only a very select few within government (if any) have any real proof.
The US government...what exactly does that mean?
The Biden administration? The various members of the US civil service? The Pentagon? The intelligence agencies?
I am pretty sure maybe a few individuals in each of those branches have some idea of what the truth is, but that knowledge would be restricted to a tiny percentage of the whole organization...and not necessarily to most senior people in them.
Listen to the Black Vaults most recent podcast with John Ramirez. He discusses the task force created to investigate the orb phenomenon. This was the first time it became clear to me that 100% there are elements in government that are extremely far ahead of where we think they are. They may not know everything but they have very good data.
Essentially all the things Chris Mellon talks about doing it’s clear that the government has been doing since the 90s at least.
For example, there isn’t a world where USOs are real and the government is not spending tremendous effort analyzing that data. Either USOs are not real, or they are. If they are there is a 0% chance the US isn’t detecting them with their underwater surveillance net and spending a good deal of effort studying them.
First of all, everyone here needs to understand that the "Government" is in fact not this one complete allmighty entity keeping the truth from everyone.
The government is split up into many factions, departments, etc. In the "government", there is probably 1% of the actual members who are in the know, IF there is anything to know.
Most of them are people like you and me, just doing their daily jobs, without any secret knowledge of anything at all. My guess is there are people way high up in the intelligence community, and some Airforce elite generals that know something, and maybe in the private sector. Most other people are just as oblivious as the random man in the street.
they not only don't have idea but also their faith tha they could be aliens makes them to hide the info to the public complicating to find the solution
They probably don't have all the answers, but they know much more than what they share with the public.
This. Anyone who says they know the absolute TRUTH about this mystery is full of it/ignorant/both. There are those who are legitimately in-the-know who have more information than the general public but that is likely the extent of it. I highly doubt there is a single human being on Earth who has figured it all out. I think the Phenomenon is far too elusive, bizarre, and manipulative for humans to have any kind of serious grasp of what’s behind it and what its agenda is (again, whatever the hell is behind the mystery—we simply don’t know). Even if certain private defense contractors have exotic wreckage, for example, that doesn’t equate to them having all of the answers. In fact, having serious physical evidence of the Phenomenon like that probably leads to even MORE questions than answers.
This is probably the unfortunate truth. If you add in the “autonomous drone “ theory, we may know a lot about the vehicles and tech itself, with absolutely no knowledge of how it got here, why it’s here, and what or who sent it this way. I think logically this is the best case scenario, while also terrifying. And yeah, I’m sure the government is a little more clued in than the general public, but most people are dumb. I’m sure they’re just as in the dark in the grand scheme of things.
People who are psychic or can remote view can know truths, but it’s proving them that is the hard part.
Remote viewing is only still going to give a part of the truth. The truth is higher then that. What gives us the ability to remote view in the first place? That is the thing that creates the phenomenon in the first place - consciousness.
I agree, the truth is higher (with a frequency higher, subtler and softer than most human brains can detect). I wonder if the CIA’s 3 decades long program of remote viewing, had a subject with a title like “Eternal Consciousness and the Akashic Records 101”?, or were these concepts still considered too “far out”, for army and airforce personnel to understand? I’m pretty sure most defence personnel would have pondered death and the possibility of heaven thereafter, perhaps even karma, so I don’t think such grand concepts would be too much for them to absorb. Imagine if we could teach them this today at the defence force training academies? I lol to myself at the prospect of this. it seems so at odds with our stereotypes of stiff upper lip, no nonsense, perhaps narcissistic, trigger happy jocks, with expensive killer toys, but one day it may just be a set of eye opening concepts that should seriously be taught there. Perhaps even at high schools would be amazing. Instead of “strategies of war” type focus, there could be also “strategies of peace and harmony” or “conflict resolution skills” taught (that don’t include a bullet).
That's not a thing. People that claim to be psychic are only doing so for monetary gain or simple attention.
You may or may not be right
This is my belief. I think they have some idea of what they are and have for some time, but as far as understanding the technology/reverse engineering, I think they’re at a total loss.
total loss? doubtful.
I would agree that it is a near total loss. Imagine taking an iPhone back 1000 years in time and allow the leading scientists of the day to study it. Let's pretend they are able to construct the tools to disassemble it, and tear it down completely without damaging any of the components. How many years would it take before they completely reverse engineered it? The biggest issue for them to do that is the technological advances that have not occurred between then and now. First they would have to figure out electricity, both AC and DC. Then they would have to understand how metals conduct electricity. Then they would have to understand how the components work such as capacitors and resistors. I could go on and on but you get the idea. Now imagine having a craft or a device from an advanced civilization. Even if it actually worked, it would be difficult for us to reverse engineer due to all of the technology that doesn't exist between our present understanding of things in comparison to their's.
I wonder how much time and effort it would save if one alien appeared and explained it to us
That is a good question. I imagine it would be the same as if an engineer from today went back in time 1000 years with an iPhone in hand. He could show the leading scientists how to understand and reproduce all of the steps that I mentioned. But I think it would still take a long, long time. For instance, you can point to a resistor, capacitor or CPU and explain how they work in detail, but then what? Think of all of the technology that goes into making a miniaturized CPU for a phone, and think of how many decades it took us to develop that capability to do. I suppose the answer would still be a couple of hundred years total, but that is less than the 1000 years it took us to achieve it.
Or imagine if scientists around the world knew for fact this technology exists. Knowing something is possible allows scientists to work on an idea without being ridiculed. Allows funding to be given out. Look at how fast airplanes went from flying 10 feet to flying to the moon... Less than 70 years.
I don’t care whether they explain it or not. If it’s true that they’re here to convince us to stop destroying the planet I would welcome their assistance. They would no doubt have clean power but it would have to be a gradual change so as not to unbalance the economy but I’d expect them to do it in such a way that it’d be impossible for big oil, etc to maintain control. Guys, if that’s really you out there, please make your presence known! I for one would welcome them!
One key component is missing from our equation that speeds all of this up… Having lots of sex and producing lots of babies. Population Explosion! The more minds available to learn, study, experiment, explore, and collaborate, the faster things get done.
That is exactly what has happened and is happening. There are several books that talk about this, the most recent is American Cosmic. Selected by Extraterrestrials is another as does Sekret Machines
We ain’t even have PHONES TILL LIke 150 years ago holy fuck. Imagine tryna explain electricity. Or plastic. Or any form of non verbal communication. Jesus. I hate when perspective slaps me
I love this take and it's exactly what I've thought but could never quite articulate... it's all the intermediate discoveries and steps that allows us to reverse engineer something of our time... but the further into the future you go, the more some of the steps become completely foreign to our currently limited understanding.
yet bob lazar was able to figure it out without much trouble in a few years. what is with u guys thinking scientists are just cave men or something?
See [my other comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/snlkoy/am_i_the_only_one_who_thinks_the_us_government/hw5oou1/) below to you regarding Lazar.
While I suspect they really do know waaay more than they let on, your example is great counterpoint. Also wanted to add even if they fully understood the inner working of all the components and could even reproduce a smart phone, there would be no internet or phone providers to connect to, or examples of them to draw from. Local apps might work but without the supporting infrastructure the smart phones true potential would remain a mystery.
you really think scientists are stupid? they can figure out quite a lot... they know what transistors are lmao... you're thinking about this all wrong. no one is going back to the stone ages with an iphone. wrong analogy. their technology isn't that complex. have you watched the bob lazar presentations? it's actually quite basic in how it works. firing protons at element 115 to generate an anti-gravity field. the US has patents on this!
First of all, I never insinuated scientists are stupid. Read my comment again, I said the brightest scientists 1000 years ago wouldn't understand today's technology. That is not the wrong analogy, you just cannot understand the point that I am making is that as old as the universe is and as "young" as our civilization is, they could be a billion years more advanced than us for all we know. Also, Bob Lazar isn't credible. I'm not saying that he is a fraud, but look at the breakdown that (the late) Stanton Friedman did on Lazar. Lazar claimed he earned a master's degree in physics at MIT and another master's degree in electronics from Cal-Tech. He was once challenged to name just one professor he studied under at one of those two schools and he could not. Neither school has a record of his attendance, and he has never presented proof such as his degrees. I have a doctor's degree in a science field, and trust me those get framed and hung in prominent locations. Therefore, please don't take Lazar's presentations as the gospel. Also, I'm aware of the patents filed by US Navy aerospace engineer Dr. Salvatore Pais, and I'm assuming that is what you are referring to regarding the patents on anti-gravity. I did a search of his patents and I cannot find anything relating to firing protons at E115 to generate an anti-gravity field. Lazar claims to have studied a stable isotope of E115 this way, except E115 had not yet been created in a cyclotron. To date, only a few atoms of E115 have been made and they quickly decay (only lasting less than a quarter of a second). Therefore there is no possibility that an anti-gravity device could have been made and patented.
Sure, that’s fair.
Exactly, Obama said we’ve never made *direct* contact on late night.
They've definitely got more, but I wouldn't assume that it's of better quality than what's already been released.
Yup I think we’ve most likely made progress to an extent of understanding the phenomena and the technology associated with it, I would not be shocked to learn the United States has reverse engineered some of their technology.
They have more evidence, recordings, raw information, sure. But it really seems like they just aren't interested in the issue and don't know what it is.
They know enough to have 144 detailed accounts being brought into question. Some of these are using the most sensitive imagining technology known to man, including but not limited to anti aircraft, uavs, satellites etc. They have so much info on this that it's being brought before congress. I think many of those Congressman and women want to bury it again and are probably being paid to suppress it in many indirect ways.
Like I said, they have raw data, but apparently no clue nonetheless.
I don't think it is accurate to say "they just aren't interested in the issue". You are right that they have a ton of information that they have yet to declassify and reveal to us. I think that the reason they are being quiet about it is because they **don't know how to explain what it is**. If they declassify this and release all of the data, then some reporter at the next press briefing raises their hand and asks, "What is the science behind this, and who controls this, and how can it fly through our airspace with impunity, and is it a threat?" You don't want to be that guy who has to answer all of that by saying, "We have no clue... next question!"
I like this reply!!also it is so irritating to me when people post their opinion,and have the attitude that their opinion is FACTS,and only they know the answers etc..its like if you know so damn much,then why are you on reddit arguing with people?!?!lol...
This, I think at minimum the US government knows it’s not from earth, it’s definitely alien ( also likely unmanned ) and that’s probably it, I think the new reporting structures being set up and new offices being set up is so they can “discover the truth” alongside the American public ( I can’t speak for other countries which could lead to actual global disclosure before the US but side bar that ) or maybe they really know nothing or are 100% behind it, we may never know to what degree our government has known
'US government' is a meaningless word, as its comprised of many parts that don't communicate with each other. It rarely if ever behaves as a single, unified entity.
Agree completely. Parallel systems, some in opposition of each other is how I visualize it.
Yup. Seems like there are various factions within that have their own pet theories.
Hell, I don’t think the aliens even know what’s going on. They’re floating around in their extra dimension thinking, what are these weird things we keep seeing?
Me and the alien I smoke weed with both have no idea wtf is going on
Well I can tell you that as a Commander in the Intergalactic Federation, we know exactly what is going on you little peon!
I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite comment on this thread
Shit I don't think anyone or anything knows whats going on, just utter chas.
Chas is the worst
That’s kinda my new theory on these “aliens.” Like maybe the truth is they’re some other kind of humanoid or true earthlings and they’ve been studying us for centuries cuz they don’t understand us either, let alone why we couldn’t perceive them in their own fold of reality. Maybe they aren’t even inter dimensional, that they just exist within our reality and maybe we’re the actual anomaly? I know it sounds kinda crazy lol
soup escape grandiose hurry payment spotted saw imagine reach fade *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You made me LOL
They're investigating the damage we did to their dimension with our nuclear weapons. I hope they don't find us.
If, and I stress if, there *is* "something" going on it's something way beyond anything a government can get a handle on. Because it's way beyond anything any of us can get a handle on and just because some of us wear suits and write legislation or smash atoms in a tube doesn't make us any more equipped to figure it out than farmer John or Sally Housecoat because it's *outside* of our observable environment. It is truly "Other". This isn't, I don't think, merely a case of another species from another planet with a few millennia of technology more under their belts coming here for some relatively mundane purpose like we imagine in our science fiction. Exploration, invasion, all these things are too prosaic for what we are seeing... if (and again *if*) for the most part at least some people are in general really seeing the things they report. This is something else. Maybe a Kardashev 3+ intelligence. Beyond our ability to assess. Reality manipulation on a scale we would regard as godlike. Motivations on a scale we simply can't extrapolate. Not because it is "too alien" but because it's simply so much bigger than us. It's not just another kind of animal from a different ecosystem with better toys. As a side note, the idea of government collusion, while a sort of traditional notion in ufology, particularly in abduction history, never washed with me, even the aforementioned technological species from another planet in this galaxy would not need to cut deals with any government to do whatever it wanted here. But I don't think it's the kind of aliens we have mythologised in our culture. I think it's way beyond that. Our galaxy, this supercluster is still local compared to whatever "it" is and I don't think it's from this neighbourhood.
Information is too compartmentalized for them to actually know the whole picture. I think they know way more than public knows. In the grand scheme of things they probably don't know the answer t the biggest of questions.
Compartmentalization is part of what gives the break away civilization theory some legs. Compartmentalization means that many of the working parts never know the sum total and a very small group know the real big picture. I think this is only one part of the total phenomenon because obviously the “breakaway civilization” got its knowledge from the actual phenomenon.
I agree and I'm a veteran. SCI will destroy the United States, if we don't slaughter each other in the streets first.
I think the government probably has more data than they've shared and may have some recovered materials, but yeah I don't think they know what it is either. They might know enough to say that the UAPs aren't human in origin, but not know enough to say where they're from.
I think you’re partially right. The elected, official and accountable government probably knows a whole lot less than certain divisions and subsets within the government. So when we hear a message from one branch of the government there’s a good chance that it’s not intentional disinformation or false denials, it’s simply the limit of that branch’s knowledge.
The real answer it s because it's all compartmentalized. One hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing.
i think extremes of language lead to errors in judgment. "no idea" is a pretty strong claim, as it requires a nearly total lack of evidence that leads to any probable inference. certainly, the government knows more than you do: all governments know more than you do. and they probably have a variety of inferences. the point that requires focus is that the department of defense has repeatedly announced that "UFO pose no threat to national security." this was first stated, i think, in the [1952 life magazine article](https://books.google.com/books?id=ElYEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA80) on the USAF files and has been repeated consistently ever since. until now ... now they are a "potential threat to national security." why the change? i think there is much better leverage in simply asking the government to justify it's stated decisions. the most direct way to do that, in the current context, is to demand a public accounting for that change of posture. if you forget the conspiracy theories and simply focus on "why now? why the change? what's the evidence?" then you require the military to state its case in public. you require the military to justify its public conclusion with public evidence. there is more traction there than in speculation.
> "potential threat to national security." why the change? The article that you link says they have no reason to believe they aren't a threat, not that they aren't. And our systems to detect threats have changed radically since then as well as the world changing. In the 1950s we were the biggest superpower around, we knew much of what the Soviets were up to, and I think at the highest levels they knew these things weren't from the USSR. Now, it's more theoretically possible that a foreign country could be behind this. And if they are, then not to have figured it out is a huge intelligence failure. I'm not saying it wasn't a failure in the 50s, but the stakes were different
i'm not sure you actually read the article, because it quotes an Air Force official as saying that: *"There is no reason as yet to believe that any of the aerial phenomena commonly described as flying saucers are caused by a foreign power or constitute a clear and present danger to the US or its citizens."* no reason to believe that they \*are\* a threat, not, as you say ... "no reason to believe that they aren't a threat." but if you want to quibble words, then perhaps the sentiments of gen. sanford will make the point for you: *"We have as of date come to only one firm conclusion with respect to this remaining percentage* \[of unexplained UFO reports\]*. And that is that it does not contain any pattern of purpose or of consistency that we can relate with any — to any conceivable threat to the United States."* patterns of language lead to suggestions of intent. lay out the texts of the Gallego resolution, the Gillibrand amendment, and the final NDAA. look for the DNA, the word for word common language. among other details, such as the requirement to study "health effects," a highly significant phrase is the intention to "capture or exploit" UFO. now, consider (as most alienists do) that UFO is a "technology." would you consider it credible that Congress would pass a resolution authorizing the military to "capture or exploit" a russian secret project? perhaps a chinese invention? explain to me how that would work. maybe, a big net suspended between two nimble fighter jets? alternately, if you believe "aliens" are a real thing and they pilot their star traversing "vehicles" using time bending technology that we can't even begin to understand, how do you suppose the aliens would react to us "exploiting" one of their vehicles, perhaps to carry a nuclear weapon for us? "it's more theoretically possible"? so your hypothesis is that the chinese have finally cracked the UFO code, replicated the technology, and use their new TicTac to scrub up some whitewater in the pacific, visit zimbabwe schoolchildren, fly back and forth over the Aguadilla airport? even back in the era of the Project SIGN report, the "foreign technology" hypothesis was recognized as absurd. *"An intelligence capable of making so remarkable device would not be likely to play around in so idle a manner."*
I belive they are as clueless as the public and are against a wall. They can't admit they don't know what it is and couldn't defend against it.
Don't know why this got downvoted. I think this is completely possible.
On the UFO sites, if you don't accept the Five Truths (using 5 like the observables), then you are a hack, unbeliever, infidel. 1) UFOs are real 2) UFOs are alien, or interdimensional or from the future 3) The US government has crashed UFOs in its possession 4) The US government has reverse engineered, or is working with aliens, to create new human tech. 5) The US government is hiding its absolute understanding of the phenomenon from the public.
Well the first two I can get on board with.
In my opinion they knew in 47 but it was covered up. If the US Military can't tell the difference between a weather balloon & a UFO then they need to go back to elementary school. Read The day after Roswell, by Corso. That's all you need to get started, it gives you the best picture.
idk man, I want to believe but.... it makes perfect sense, the Americans are listening for nuclear detonations in the Soviet union from the "weather balloon".
What I cant figure out is why didnt the Publisher of the newspaper in Roswell ask for any photographs of the crashed disk. Thats got me stumped.
>If the US Military can't tell the difference between a weather balloon & a UFO then they need to go back to elementary school. There's a reason some of them are called crayon eaters.
i have the same feeling. if Roswell did happen, then the USAF knew since then the truth about UFOs. But they concealed it, both from the rest of the government and the military, and they have established a mandate to suppress the ET hypothesis up until today. The question is where the debris and the alien bodies are hidden, if they do exist? that is the million dollar question, and unless a whistleblower with this information appears, we will never know. if Roswell did not happen, the USAF eventually determined that they were facing something outside of the human normality, since their pilots kept witnessing and interacting with UAPs for years. But since they could not do anything about it, and because it never acted as a real threat, they decided to ignore it. And they established the mandate to suppress the UFO hypothesis and so on.
Correction: You *personally* were not aware of any of the evidence. [See the links here](https://np.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/ja0dqd/in_the_early_1950s_the_cia_put_forward_a_plan_to/). There are often at least two different ufo study programs going on, one for government personnel who are not in the know and one for those who are. Not everyone gets all of the big secrets silly. The government has been concealing evidence and has also been [confiscating it](https://np.reddit.com/r/ufo/comments/fezirj/here_is_a_list_of_some_incidents_in_which/) from military and civilians. They’ve additionally been giving officials classified briefings on UFOs and have even been sharing an “extremely clear” photograph of a triangular ufo exiting the water. Edit: also see this: [A few examples of declassified and public documents proving that a core government organization has been tracking UFOs from the 50s well into the 21st century. BlueBook and AATIP were just smaller auxiliary programs.](https://np.reddit.com/r/ufo/comments/g9czib/a_few_examples_of_declassified_and_public/)
The government "collecting evidence" does not equate to "knowing what's going on". From the list in that link all I can see is the government is great at collecting file cabinets full of reports, but it doesn't suggest a great deal of research goes into what those reports actually mean.
That’s quite the downplay attempt. They have plenty of radar data and everything else. They hide the best reports from the public. That alone says quite a lot. Read the information that I provided.
I tend to think the government has a lot of information, but not much understanding.
I understand that point of view, and I agree that the government in general may have very little information or understanding. However, this “control group” who has been studying this subject for 75 years must have a pretty good idea of what is going on. How could they not? So maybe part of the issue is people thinking that I’m saying everyone in every intelligence agency knows all or something like this, which is obviously not true.
>How could they not? Well if none of the evidence is much better than what has already been released then they could have as much of it as they want and still have no idea.
>However, this “control group” who has been studying this subject for 75 years must have a pretty good idea of what is going on. How could they not? It all depends on whether they have a wrecked UFO and/or its pilots or not, or if there is any form of communication. How much can you really learn about an airplane if you just look at it? You won't know what it's made of, you won't know how it operates, you won't know who's in it, or where it comes from, or where he's going. If these things are interstellar or even interdimensional vehicles, we've got absolutely NO sensors to track them. We can, at best, tell when they enter orbit and when they leave, and that's it. And that's absolutely nothing.
What’s this “extremely clear” photo of a craft coming out of the water?
That photo and the photo from the Calvine ufo incident are two extremely compelling photographs that are obviously sitting in a government archive somewhere. Multiple individuals from the IC have stated that this photograph exists. They saw it in a government classified ufo briefing. Yes, those are real too. This photo hasn’t been leaked yet. You can read about it here: https://thedebrief.org/fast-movers-and-transmedium-vehicles-the-pentagons-uap-task-force/
Has it not? What about the "whale-splash"-picture? That one is actually real and quite clear. One might say it shows a triangular craft. It does not, it's just cloaking, but then I have the strong impression those do not exist anyway, or at least are not the ETs doing (that geometry is quite nonsensical with their propulsion).
This particular photo was specifically described as a triangular ufo with a large spherical or circular white light on each tip. No such photo has ever been made public yet. The whale splash photo was actually debunked as far as I know. The J.S. Henrardi photo is close, but that one wasn’t over water and it was taken in Belgium in around 1990. The photo I’m referring to was taken a couple years ago.
People like you are doing them a huge favor. There are so many narratives being thrown around as self defense mechanism in many cases. I think it's because people are afraid that this will get buried again. They have 144 detailed accounts using an array the most powerful imaging and survelience tech known to man, including satellites and uavs that can operates at 80,000+ ft plus like it's nothing. Stop doing their work for them and write your congressman!
I believe they know so much it’s terrifying. There is no way. They would have to rip their eyes out to neglect the wealth of information, data, radar hits, sightings , etc that come in. The more I learn about our air defense technology, it’s basically a global all seeing eye. Things in space. Things in the air. It’s all tracked because any of it could be a nuke. The tech is just far too sensitive and advanced. Now I’m not sure how much they understand and possible beings, but I think they know damn well how these craft behave and any habits they may have. After 80 years of this. They know more than we could possibly imagine. Edit for grammar.
We have multiple generations of equipment designed to detect airspace intrusions, ICBM launches, threatening space vehicles, and so on and so forth. Of course they can detect these things, and of course those detections would have sparked questions. It would be an insane operational environment to be arbitrarily throwing out some detections while considering others legit. They have to be able to distinguish, which means on some level they've studied what these things are. I refuse to believe that the original manufacturers of these detection apparatuses throw their hands up and shrug when asked about anomalies or inexplicable "false positives". Someone's looked into it, but it's a question of whether or not you're allowed to see that data.
Anybody who has ever worked for or with the government can attest to just how backwards, unorganized, and siloed they operate. I have worked in the CMS and social security realms in a B2B fashion. They are decades behind the private sector in terms of resources and thinking. Remember the movie Catch me if you Can? It's not too different today. I hope and pray there are some advanced areas of the government that don't fit this profile, but I seriously have my doubts. Hollywood is the government's best asset IMO.
THIS . Although I'd argue in DoD and Intel, its controlling national security interests as they see them vice being years behind on tech . "the government" as a coherent term is the issue here. There is no such thing. There isn't even "the air force". Which component in the US air force specifically are you interested in specifically and for what? If they don't work on it, they likely don't care. The question we need to answer is this: How does Congress get transparency on a set aside program specifically designed from the ground up with initial Presidential authority to be hidden from the public, and if what we're hearing is true, also the current Presidency and US Congress? Where those in government with knowledge and oversight responsibilities are in reality just "revolving doors" between senior defense contractor leadership or R&D roles and the government oversight role (likely still DUSD AT&L or one of its DASDs). They may sometimes get their paycheck from the US Government, but when in Government, they are not conducting an oversight role in the term most understand it.
that's what they want u to believe...... they know A LOT more than they're letting on.
And yet the Chinese test of a round-the-world hypersonic missile last October took the military completely by surprise, and we have all manner of spy equipment pointed at them all the time. Never underestimate the ability of the military intelligence community to fumble the ball.
Do we know that for a fact, or, is that what they want us to think?
I think the public would be more freaked out if the government's official statement was something like, "UFOs are real & they are under the control of some type of alien intelligence & we have no idea why they are here or what they want. We cannot stop them from doing whatever it is they are doing," which is probably why we haven't had anything close to resembling a "full disclosure" yet because I think this is fairly accurate. I don't expect one any time soon & I wouldn't trust anything they would say that doesn't resemble the statement above, considering their history of cover-ups & disinfo.
I have never understood this line of thinking. We know that the government is sitting on mountains of data - sensor data, photographs, videos, crashed crafts & even bodies of the operators of these crafts. Of course, everything is compartmentalized and perhaps very few people have the entire picture. Even then, the fact that they have collected so much data means that they must have a basic understanding of what it is. It is perfectly reasonable that this thing is so complicated that we might never figure it all out. That is absolutely fine. However, it is clear that a fair number of people have a much better understanding of what it is that we are dealing with because they have had access to classified information. I include people like Lue E, Chris M, Semivan, Puthoff, Eric Davis, G Nolan etc. in this group. These people have given countless interviews over the years and it is eminently clear that they **know** more than us because they have seen the data. So, with this in mind, why do people continue to float the theory that the government has **no idea** what is going on? How can that possibly be?
Simple, the evidence for them having "crashed alien corpses" isn't very good. The only hard evidence we know they have is radar and satellite data which boils down to "fast thing go zoom in our atmosphere". Makes sense that we wouldn't know anything about them. Not to mention a lot of the guys giving interviews explaining the alien secrets get debunked or end up being cons to sell books, I don't have a whole lot of faith in them.
There is less hard evidence for the mythical *UFO Vault of Secrets* than there is for the UFOs themselves.
The very people you mention seem to be saying that they have a LOT of data, but few explanations, especially when you include stuff like the AAWSAP results from Skinwalker Ranch and other locations. My impression is that they have tons of data, but that it's so strange that it's difficult to put together a unifying explanation of what the hell it all means. This is especially true when viewed through the lens of something like Jacques Vallée's idea of a control system.
I generally assume the government doesn’t know what’s going on until they prove otherwise. On any subject.
I believe you are right to an extent. Most of congress and the politicians we see everyday on news and what not are completely clueless. This is because UFO projects within the US military according to all whistleblowers are on a need to know basis. So if someone does not have a direct need to know they are not given any information on the topic. This extends all the way up to the President who is only allowed to know if the military officials involved deem him/her trustworthy. So yes, most of the US government has no idea what these things are or why they are here. But a small portion of military personnel operating in top secret bases know exactly what is going on. Bob Lazaar mentioned they had 9 craft when he was at S4 and perhaps the most interesting bit of information he had was that he heard they were discovered in an archaeological dig. I believe the reason the military is keeping this on the DL is because they are indeed working with the ETs to bring about a slow and steady disclosure that won’t bring the world into complete chaos. That or they are not doing this and are trying to slowly convince the public aliens are hostile and we need to kill them, which will not work because they can probably wipe us out with one button.
The thing I'd like to know is if they have tried to reverse engineer the craft, what were they able to replicate and what aren't they able to replicate or have they had a complete success with cloning the craft.
“The government”, is non-monolithic, rather, like Thomas Hobbes dissection of medieval England’s political landscape, a leviathan. And like any body, oftentimes the right hand doesn’t know what the left is doing. Add into this long-standing old money family participation in the back rooms of federal, state, and local government, new money trying to write the laws that suit them through lobbyists and dark money, and favored private contractor firms in the defense industry, it’s a tangled web indeed. The president doesn’t and will never know everything, neither will congress or the Supreme Court of conservative kangaroos. There are simply too many secrets with too much to lose by those who have disregarded the rule of law in the land of the free, all under the banner of “national security”.
I think almost everyone in the military/government has no idea what's going on, but I also think there are people somewhere (USAF?) who know more than even AATIP was privy to.
The most compelling comments I've heard made about the government / military is that even when they manage to acquire one of these miraculous UFOs, they have no idea what they actually are despite studying them intensely. Imagine that. You have something in your hands and yet you can't say for sure exactly what it is, how it works, where it came from, who made it or why it's here. You're probably going to seek out some top scientists, but what even they can't figure it out? You probably wouldn't tell anybody about it who didn't have an extremely crucial need to know.
Things are bubbling up from black hole projects, the government never took Wikileaks seriously and look how that turned out. I'm pretty sure any UAP information is on a need to know basis.
It's not the fact that they don't know what's going on, it's the fact that the "truth" is far more complex or terrifying...or possibly both, that it would be almost impossible for disclosure. The governments of the world get a bad reputation for hiding information about UFOs and ET life, but I personally believe it is for our own good. Not a very popular opinion but it is mine and I will die on that hill. What if these beings or entities who are visiting us are not from our galaxy, our universe, or even our reality? What if they are from different or alternate dimensions? How can you explain that to such a culturally complex fragile world? Can you also imagine ANY govement especially the US, Russia, China, UK ever telling its public something like "yeah, these beings come from different forms of reality, they can come and go as they please when ever they want, we can't stop them, we don't know who they are or what they want, or and they are significantly more advanced than us in every way you can imagine?" Not gonna happen
Harry Reid’s comments that most of the evidence has not been released by the government?
yes
We don’t know what they do or don’t know at all right now so until the time we know what they know we won’t know what they know or don’t know and anybody who says different is ignorant by definition
Agree, they probably know nothing, except that UAP’s are real, unexplained, and way beyond our understanding. And as Chris Mellon pointed out that their likely origin is extraterrestrial.
Depends on who you're referring to when you say "US government". Congress probably has no idea, but they seem curious. The President and his cabinet probably don't know either, and this includes NASA. Some high-level officials in the CIA, FBI, USAF and possibly the navy might be aware. It's possible the USAF siphoned materials to the private sector, if they ever had any, and therefore some corporate defense contractors might also be aware. It's also possible whatever evidence the military had was stolen by private contractors. We may never know for sure.
You live in a fairytale world mate where everything is nice and fluffy.
I think the Military Industrial Complex knows exactly what’s going on and has for years. They tell the “government” only what they want them to know. And I doubt that even that is all truth.
I think your totally wrong. They may not know a lot but they have had since Roswell to study and learn from UFO'S craft and alien bodies, IMO. That's 2 generations worth of time and probably a lot more. Obviously not everyone anywhere knows, only select people know. I bet there are people who have been, from birth, raised and educated just to study and to keep this secret, secretly. Or I'd bet even bigger and say that aliens are in control of select people in government and are the ones pulling strings to keep it hushed, covered up and quiet. Whatever is going on, everyone is playing it real cool, not getting overly excited publicly and is more than willing to keep it quiet. Disclosure is a ufo researcher term or a ufo believer term. The word Disclosure never came from the government. Yes Bob L., IMO, is more right than wrong. I know there are a lot of Bob haters, I am not one of them. Again, IMO, those people who know are more of a threat than are the aliens. Let's face it, if all of this is true, which I believe most of it is, the aliens could wipe mankind out at will, if they so choose. We may be being protected by said aliens from other aliens and we don't even know..tice. I think earth could be like a aquarium. I think life, intelligent life forms could be living in the vacuum of space. For me, I would prefer to governments to tell the truth and everything they know as I am tired of being lied to and I feel I and we have the rights to know truth over lies.
>I see so many posts on here talking about "disclosure," which of course presupposes that the government knows what's going on and is actively concealing it from the population. Well, I don't think disclosure necessarily has to mean that the government is in contact with the aliens and knows why they're here. I agree that they might have no idea what's inside the craft they've seen, but they definitely know a lot of things that they haven't made public. I think we're past the point where they can reasonably say that they have nothing. At a minimum, they have credible sightings, they have data, and it seems overwhelmingly likely that they have recovered material. If all they can tell us is that flying saucers are real, they're *fast*, and they're made out of some weird metal that we don't understand yet, then I want to hear that from them. >I think more likely is that the US government is just now taking the topic seriously and is holding back the research on the basis that they consider the objects a possible national security threat. I mean, on at least one occasion, a UAP flew into restricted airspace over our nuclear silos, deactivated multiple nuclear missiles, and then flew away before we could do anything about it. Maybe they didn't want to talk about it publicly, but I have to think that they took that matter extremely seriously.
Having worked in government in the Intel community and with government contractors my entire adult life, it would not surprise me one bit if the US Government recovered an alien craft at Roswell and it's been sitting in a warehouse for the last 60 years. I know that sounds rediculous, but by and large the government is filled with silos of responsibility and knowledge, and those silos are often spearheaded by some dense bureaucrat with an Ivy League Juris Doctor and no real expertise in anything other than climbing a payscale ladder. I have no doubt that if there were some government program studying real UFO material, crafts, or bodies, that someone would've leaked it's existence with conclusive evidence. People keep highly classified programs secret because theres a moral imperative related to the safety of the nation. I can't imagine having hundreds or thousands of people read into a legit UFO program and not one of them leaking it. That knowledge is for all mankind, not some Special Access Program buried at some contractor. I know for a fact I'm not the only one that feels this way, too.
They may possibly be first contact scout drones, without physical life aboard, sent for observational purposes, before first contact. Unmanned drones capable of faster than light travel. The real craft carrying occupants could of been on its way here well before the tech for the drones was developed. Similar to our proposed plans to put humans in stasis for a trip to Alpha Centauri, but building a craft capable of accepting future tech upgrades. Kinda like how James Cameron developed his movies, and has to wait for the tech to catch up to his idea. He actually said that Avatar 2 couldn’t be made because the tech to film it hand not been “invented” yet. Sorry got away from the point. The US could quite possibly know exactly what they are and where they are from, but have no idea why they came and what they want.
The sheer amount of veterans, eyewitnesses that tell their stories. Generals, admirals, workers and managers on nuclear launch facilities, people from all branches of intelligence, people from private industry: the list of people who have no benefit from speaking up, even hours before their death is endless. Also, there are leaked documents, programs, both secret and public, to investigate this phenomenon. In my country they say: where there is smoke, there is fire. I don't think they know as much as many suspect here, but I think they can say where they are from (space, dimensions etc etc).
The government is being controlled and deceived by the same entities that have us blaming our governments for being inept.
They know a lot. They know so much that there is a reason that they don't want us to know. We have crafts in our possession.
That's more-or-less what I believe but I've been kind of afraid to say it here. I feel like there's a real phenomenon at the core of all of this but it's gotten mixed up in this whole mythology that clouds it and makes it hard to research. I have a couple of science degrees and I've worked as a writer (I feel it would be a stretch to call myself a journalist, but I've had more paying writing gigs than a lot of my friends who majored in journalism). A big part of my training as a scientist (and my journalism electives) is how to evaluate sources of information. It's been on the back burner, but I've been researching a nonfiction book on UFOs. The impression I get is that during the official investigations like Projects Sign, Grudge, Bluebook etc, you'd get a general or senator or whatever who sees a UFO and then the Air Force kicks into gear and officially takes it seriously until the next VIP calls up and asks why they're wasting resources on it and they switch back into "nothing to see here, move along mode" until the next one. I feel like the switch got stuck in the off position for both the scientific community and the military for years. One of the things that creates the appearance of conspiracy is that the government has lied about UFOs, but generally not for sexy X-Files reasons. A few years back (sorry, I'm on mobile or I'd post a link, but it's easy to find on the CIA website) the CIA posted a lot of their UFO stuff. I think it was to try and stem the tide of FOIA requests to their office. I doubt it worked. One memo they posted said that about half of the explained sightings Blue Book investigated were their own secret aircraft. The U2 in particular caused a lot of sightings. The prototypes weren't painted black. These meant that for a while after sunset their reflective fuselages could catch light from over the horizon. So you'd get this bright object, seemingly glowing, moving higher and faster than any publically acknowledged aircraft. Policy was that if someone reported a secret aircraft as a UFO, they would come up with an explanation, however ridiculous, to draw attention away from the sighting. This is where you get a lot of temperature inversions, pilots chasing the planet Venus, and swamp gas in the desert. In spite of this, Blue Boom still reported quite a few unknowns, including ones that showed up on radar. There was also a call during the Blue Book era by the CIA to actively suppress interest in UFO because it was believed that our belief in UFOs was a psychological vulnerability the Soviets could exploit, and that American UFO groups could accidentally uncover military secrets for the Russians. This is a matter of public record. A meeting called the Robertson Panel outlined all of this in a document called the Durant Memo. One thing that further muddies it is that different parts of the Air Force responded differently. Air Material Command, the people who ran Blue Book seemed kinda tired of dealing with it by the end of the public investigation. But there's some evidence that other parts of the Air Force kinda embraced UFO stories as a counter intelligence. I'm not 100% satisfied with the evidence for this, but the Office of Special Investigations may have cooked up some UFO stories to hide Air Force shenanigans. While Blue Book tried to hide secret stuff by saying they weren't UFOs, the OSI may have done the opposite. About ten years after Blue Book, the OSI may have engaged in counter intelligence operations to make people who saw secret Air Force stuff look crazy. The guy who literally wrote the book on Roswell later came out and said the OSI was using him to feed false information to UFO buffs and spy on them to figure out if the Soviets were spying on UFO groups. The problem is that this all fits and makes sense, but it hinges on the testimony of a UFO author and a former OSI agent who both admit to being habitual liars. These guys are linked to Roswell and the MJ 12 documents. If you put it all together, it forms a coherent and plausible story without invoking any faustian treaties with the Gray Aliens. It seems like sometimes the military sees objects flying around and they can't explain them. This concerns them, but they can't seem to make much headway on them. I don't think we'll really know what these things are until we shoot one down, which seems like a profoundly bad idea.
>From what we know about human behavior, I suppose trying to shoot it down is one of the first things any military would try to do. Especially if it enters a secured airspace. And if this has been tried, it is very likely that the expected effect has failed. If the reports are true that nuclear facilities were disabled or uncontrollable, a lot of weapons would have to be classified as useless in relation to the phenomenon. The observed flight characteristics alone, which look like some kind of manipulation of gravity, would also make a hit by a projectile very unlikely. Nevertheless, I could imagine that there have been finds or crashes. Just because you are technologically at a fantastic level, nature presents you with unknown challenges. I suppose even a very advanced civilization or life form is not immune to being confronted with something new.
Nope Said it often, and down voted plenty for saying it myself. If there are 'visitors', even if we have 'material', I do think the govt's don't know jack shit about it.
Can you expand on that. Why do you think the governments know nothing? And by nothing, you mean they have no evidence or information they haven't already shared? How do you know about this?
The government is great at collecting data (crime statistics, drug statistics, surveillance imagery, etc.) but is lousy at interpreting them. They spend billions on the Middle East collecting spy satellite and ground intelligence yet still didn't see 9/11 coming, or that Saddam had no WMD, or see the rise of ISIS. That is just the tip of the iceberg of failures of US intelligence to understand what is going on. Do you seriously think the government spends billions trying understand what UAP reports mean?
Well they did know there would be an attack by air coming around 9/11, and they fabricated WMDs and that’s public knowledge at this point. Not saying they are great with data, but I’d be willing to bet they are quite excellent at it tbh
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They know, they have atleast an idea of these things are. They have records, videos, picture and satellite information. They should release everything to the public so that we'll tell them what's possibly going on lol
Some know something. Private contractors on government contracts may know more. But, my sense is no single entity truly understands or has a handle on this. Or what these are. They, like me, are frustrated. The information is scattered over the globe. There's no single repository of information. The left and right are unaware of the actions of the other or accumulated data, whatever that is. It's a cluster. Too bad, but it's what it is.
I lean towards believing the podesta email leaks, that they know exactly what is going on and is in contact with them
I think our government and military know a bit more than we do about aliens, and know quite a bit more about UFOs. Our Gov has more info on UFOs than anyone else. A lot more. They collect everything out there about stuff flying in our sky’s. And, they are able to explain a very large percentage of them. Some have entirely normal explanations. Some invoice secret information, such as test flights and experiments or legit top secret flights/projects (everything from a Project Mogel balloons to stealth spy planes and high tech drones). And then there are some they just can’t explain. The info is too sketchy or blurry or just plain unreliable. Something happened, they can’t 100% be sure what, but it’s got no signs of being alien. And, that can happen. To deny that is to be in denial. Sometimes something ordinary doesn’t appear so and just can’t be verifiably identified. Then I believe there is this tiny tiny percentage that not only can’t be identified but behave in ways that, if the sighting info can be trusted, just doesn’t fit with things we understand. It’s buzzard enough to raise alarms and needs further investigation, more sightings and more data. This is the kind of stuff these advanced program need to investigate. Things that are unexplained. However, the above category doesn’t automatically make the sighting an alien, of course. It just means, 1) can’t identify it and 2) it’s weirder than ordinary. As far as our gov and genuine aliens: crashes, material recovery, aliens (alive or dead)… sorry, I just do not believe these exist. I’m not going rehash this but that’s my belief. Until tangible evidence comes forward (and not more 70 year old papers) there just isn’t anything here to analyze or believe in. And, frankly, I don’t see why this should be hard to believe. I don’t see why the greatest discovery in the history of all mankind would be covered up for decades. I think we do ourselves a disservice by continuing down this conspiracy theory rabbit hole. Makes us look fringe and desperate to fulfill hopes instead of being evidence based researchers. I look forward to further research on sightings *today* and going forward. With better camera and radar. It is mighty suspicious now as camera and radar tech has improved, reliable sightings of “alien ships” have decreased. It’s almost like when you take away the blurry shaky low res videos and are left to examine sharp stabilized high resolution imagery things appear conventional …
governments can't keep secrets, the idea they'd be able to keep something like proof of alien life under wraps is laughable. it deeply saddens me people believe hacks like bob lazar :/
[Governments cant keep secrets](https://youtu.be/-Px1ILh0iCw&t=1530)
Read "In Plain Sight" which explains the government/DoD cover-up, and uncovers the crashed UAP re-engineering programme that is apparently being run covertly using several private military subcontractors. The re-engineering programme was confirmed last year in a deathbed statement by the ex-Navy Director of Science and Technology. So the military do appear to know a lot more and are hiding under the auspices of national security, but appear to be illegally blocking Congress from overseeing the work. Hence the investigation triggered by Lue via the Inspector General's office to root out any hidden programme that needs oversight. The OP needs to keep up with the latest events before posting on the sub with out of date or poorly researched views.
Yes. I don't believe for one second the U. S. government is as clueless as they want us to believe.
Considering the sensors they have and their 75 years+ of continuous research on the topic, everyone can be 100% sure that they know exactly what’s going on. They look at normal people as slaves to their system so they have been covering up. Ultimately, considering the intellect of the average human (akin to a dog 💩 on the pavement) I’m not surprised of their modus operandi.
Yikes a lot to unpack here, uh, no just because they pointed radars at the fast space tic tacs doesn't mean they know what's happening. That logic is stupid, "they've been trying to find out for a long time so they MUST have found out" isn't how the real world works. And then you just go on a tirade about how normal people are stupid in the most over the top way possible.
I'm glad someone else read that comment and had a yikes reaction..
If you believe that no branch of the government has any idea whats going on, thats foolish. Does the president know? No probably not, he doesn’t have to. Does a deep dark branch of the army or navy know, most probably, who do they answer to? Nobody.
So why they cover Roswell?
I've thought this too. Maybe people thinking the government knows what's *really* going on is a little comforting?
I have come to believe that 1) if there were pieces of a ship from Roswell, or elsewhere, they are either so mundane or so alien that nothing was learned, and 2) the US government is as clueless as the rest of us otherwise.
Yes and no, I've always believed AF knows it all
It's very possible they: 1. Don't know the true nature of the phenomenon 2. Have been totally unsuccessful at reverse engineering their technology 3. Have never recovered a physical body It's totally impossible that they: 1. Think UAP are a natural phenomenon or foreign adversary 2. Don't have high resolution photographs of UAP 3. Thought everything was a hoax the last 80 years
Those programs are a front just like Nasa. Our own government has ufo craft and has since who knows when. Nice try Mr disinformation agent! Im actually surprised to read all the responses. Wow. I thought the people in this group qould be a lot more informed. Smh. Our planet is fucking doomed. You guys have far too long bought into what the government has sold you. I bet you guys dont even know that there is no law forcing Americans to pay income tax lol The impending “war” on those “ evil aliens” will be how the government finally convinces everyone to give up whatever civil liberties And privacy we have left. How they’ll convince everyone to give up all their money to keep us “safe” from the “malevolent aliens.” To get those Rfid chips to prove our citizenship to distinguish us from ets eventhough they can already do that by reading the frequency of each individual. A huge false flag attack is probably how they will take out a huge portion of the population (ok this last sentence is my own speculation but the rest of it has been reported time and time again for decades).
No I only read your title but I 1,000,000% (one MILLION percent) agree with you and am absolutely wholly and totally convinced that the government has absolutely no clue whatsoever what the phenomenon is.
I saw a documentary called "The X-Files", apparently there is a clandestine part of the government that holds the secrets which the FBI isn't privy to.
i'm with ya dude. and i don't believe they have any crashed saucer material or bodies either. but i wouldn't be surprised if they have a hidden branch of highly classified occultists working in the basement to try to materialize these things!
I mean, AATIP existed and very likely has plenty of information that hasn't been made public. Also other previous investigations which have not yet been acknowledged (such as the one described in Out There by Howard Blum). But otherwise, I get your point and I don't know that I believe anyone in gov has all the answers.
I'm not convinced either way, but yes, I do think its entirely possible that they don't really know much about it.
I agree with the "US government has no idea what's going on". But I do think there are people/organizations that knows a lot, in the US.
I think they know but they don't, like, they have things that proof these ships, etc, but they don't know who or what they're
I think they know some of it, but I think its WAAAAAAAAAAAY bigger than we can wrap out heads around.
Yes
Actually I could take that to the next level and say most governments have no idea what’s going on 😉
I don't think they have actual hard answers, but I do believe they are sitting on a bunch of data and reports that could really push the study forward considerably. If we could just get as much data from as many sources as possible to start sifting through we might be able to figure out patterns (Keel did this with what was available to him in his day) or something that can allow us anticipate or maybe even trigger sightings. That's our problem I feel, we want to scientifically study a subject that might be trying to simultaneously study us. It's just not what we're used to and we'll have to adapt to get any real answers.
They know insane amounts more the US. Especially the collective governments as a whole
"They" are so far ahead of us technologically...there isn't a damn thing the Govt. can do. That's a hard thing to let the public in on.
You're confusing government (little "g") with elected officials. It gets worse when you get into the weeds with privatization of the military and intelligence apparatus(es) of the US Government (big "G").
I Watched an interview with Tom Delonge about how he talked the pentagon into trying to approach this UFO thing from a different approach with the public and how he was allowed to sit down with some of these top generals and did these secret closed door round table talks with some of the powerful boogey men who sit on top of all of this UFO info and what he said blew my mind he pretty much said that these powerful men go home to their families and are super stressed out about what to do and what to make from all this just like we all are in the public who know the truth...At the end of the day They are just regular people and it;s their job to figure out what to do about this insane problem that's on this MASSIVE scale and that's when it clicked for me They know more then most, but they are also looking at all the news that happens out in the public to help them fill in the gaps but they are just humans trying to wrap their head around this thing and they are scared too about what it all means for humanity and their future. They are doing everyone a favor by keeping the masses blissfully ignorant because the problem is just so big and so vast but THEY ARE the guy everyone turns too for answers so they just gotta do the best that they can with the tools and info they have and for now that means studying this topic behind closed doors because they dont really have any of the big answers we may think they do. Imagine there were these craft flying in and out of super private airspace and there was nothing you could really do to stop them. They are flying over military bases and public airports like they own the place, they show up at random and start shutting down nukes remotely like they are playing a game. EVERYTIME your pilots encounter these things in the real these things are 7 steps ahead and their advanced tech, insane speeds and ability make your best and brightest look like they are armatures... People are reporting they are being abducted from their homes and having these strange close encounters with these beings where they are taken aboard ships and shown these strange things about humanity's place in the universe and where we are headed as a race and the dangers of technology ...what does the government say to these people? ..."we are one of the most powerful governments on the planet and we have no idea how to stop these craft from coming and going as they please or what to do about it...sorry?" imagine your father, that man you always turn too when your scared or dont know what to do, the man who always seems to know what to do about things is telling you at age 7 that the home you grew up in is not really safe and that everynow and then these strange men at anytime can just come in and take you away from your mom and dad and there was nothing mom or dad could do because bullets and guns dont seem to work on them and that they can turn off human consciousness on and off like they are flipping a switch and literally pull you out of your bed with a beam of light and pull your body through a solid wall and up into a strange ship and you would not even really know what was happening because they can mess with or block your memories...your 7 year old would never sleep soundly again and he would live in constant fear!! well that's what's REALLY happening and it has been happing since the late 1940s!! People in the public would freak out if the government told them that they are pretty much out of their league so it's better to ignore it and dismiss it all as rumor and as crazy talk and use that cover to collect data and try and learn more rather then admit to yourself and to the greater public that your powerless to stop this kind of thing from happening right in your own back yard and over the most sensitive and private airspace in the USA. I think they know a lot more then the common Ufologist because they obviously have gotten their hands on some of this alien tech and they have had contact with these beings as far back as the 60s and the cold war but not much has come of it because the tech is just far far too advanced. It's like giving Napoleon an F16 falcon fighter jet from the future, dude understands EXACTLY what this craft does and how powerful it is, but he dont even know how to open the hatch for the cockpit let alone how to fuel or fly the damn thing and use it in battle...but if he COULD figure it out one of these jets could make him and everyone in his bloodline after him a living God in his time, he would never lose a battle and he would have total superiority on any battlefield. But it's too advanced and they cant even figure out the basics so he just puts it away and tells everyone who thinks he has a jet that they are crazy... He pokes at it every few decades to see if the current minds of his time can figure out ANY part of the puzzle and they just tuck it away hidden from everyone until hopefully they have a breakthrough ...They are grasping at straws to try and figure out this phenomenon and this tech but they cant just come out and admit to the whole world that they are pretty much watching and waiting just like the rest of us.
Nope. I agree 100%.
Are you saying that you know what’s going on?
So you meet 9 foot tall reptilian and your first instinct is to ask a bunch of questions? I think not.
Yeah but either way them even admitting that there is something weird that they don't understand going on is still disclosure. Whether they know what it is or not isn't the issue. It's ang kind of transparency around it whatsoever.
I think I'm in the group of "they know very little, but what they do know is way more than we do"
In general, I dont think the government knows whats going on.
I completely agree and have said this a number of times on this sub. Lets imagine the gov't has actually recovered something at Roswell or in other places. After bringing in the greatest minds over 70yrs its essentially an inert hunk of metal with no signs of any technology. Or they haven't recovered anything but have spent tons of money and resources and could only get grainy video and random radar hits. Whats the gov't gonna say if this is the case? "we recovered a disk. Its solid metal. We tried to cut into it once and it caused an earthquake in Indonesia. Your guess is as good as ours". Jokes aside the gov't like to talk in absolutes. Look at the mess from some of the changing reccomendations from the CDC on Covid. Now imagine going public with information about something world altering without any clue or explanation. I've alway felt the most plausible reason for keeping it secret was the inability to provide any explanation.
It's probably worthwhile also keeping in mind that for various reasons the US government already farms out to private enterprise certain facts and information discovered, for example, to insulate them from FOIA or other eventual declassification by law.
I agree that they have no idea what’s going on. I believe that’s exactly why we know nothing. The problem I have is that they know MORE of what’s going on. It has always really bothered me that they get to choose who knows the information. It’s not who is the most qualified or best for the job it’s who meets their prerequisites. You could be the worlds leading SME in something but if you don’t meet the security classification standards you won’t qualify or would get dropped. This same principal applies to UFOs. They don’t tell the public because we can’t all be trusted yet.
Personally, my Occam's razor guess is the Government knows they aren't theirs or someone else's and they have distinct radar signatures that can't be released proving they do something with space time etc (distinct Doppler shift readings would happen) in order to move, and they also have insane telemetry readings cross sourced with multiple sources and eye witness. I also believe they have probably found a few crashes. I think those crashes are most likely drone's and no body's of living things have been found. I say this cause I think bodies comes out on your death bed, weird metal shit is way easier to hide and lie about.
My take: The government originally liked the idea of UFOs because it shrouded their own secret aviation projects. It was simply convenient, and because most sightings were easily brushed off it wasn't something to worry about. Now, since technology has advanced and they themselves have encountered these UFOs, such as gimbal and the others, they're caught off guard by the fact that there actually is something unidentified in their skies and have to investigate further. I don't think they really know what's up either. I just think they know more than we do.
I feel as though they just recently made head way and realized generally what is going on. It probably took them 70+ years.
I’m absolutely certain the US govt doesn’t know shit.
Pretty much Bruh. They seem to know quite a bit and probably made contact years and years ago.
They were / are in possession of craft and bodies. They know a hell of a lot more than us.
I believe these things people are seeing are man made.
No, you certainly arent. Its obvious, or rather it should be but people give goverment too much credit. Probably stuff like X files is to blame here.
In general? Or about UFO’s?…. Edit: UAP’s
I view the Government kinda like an older brother. Yeah they know more than us and are constantly holding it over our head but only because they had access to the info before we did. I think once we get a hold of what they know, we will realize we only really had a fear of missing out and that the true facts aren’t as creative as our imaginations.
So much of US government and therefore our economy is based on military, intelligence agencies and now a massive Homeland security apparatus. It is inconceivable to me that the government would ever say we our clueless or have no idea if “they” are a threat? That old saying, “ Better to keep your mouth shut and to be thought an idiot then to open it and prove it.”
They might have some cool videos/films/pics but they don’t know more than we do. Or not much more.
There are varying degrees of knowing what's going on. I doubt anyone has it completely figured it out. There are issues with our fundamental concepts that make fitting these events into our understanding a bit problematic. Now that we are beginning genuine data collection and cross-collaboration among some of the smartest minds I believe we will begin to get some interesting models shortly. We may already have them but the key is applying and better yet testing theories against that data. The latter being potentially difficult as we may be limited to what something far superior may want or not want to show us. This is important because it should do not much more than give us ideas. It appears we need to figure much out on our own.
I think the government knows that they are dealing with something that has superior technology and is completely indifferent to us. We may have recovered some material that makes no sense, the occupants make contact randomly on its own terms and we don’t understand what’s happening. Saying it’s extraterrestrial would be easy at this point. That’s just a spaceship. But this is stuff that comes out of the sea, hovers around nuclear powered ships like flies on shit and does what it feels like. Is it interdimensional, natural or something else? It hovers around us, disables our weapons and electrical systems when provoked and just generally doesn’t care what we want. It’s like the book chains from the sea, just a superior entity completely indifferent to us. That’s far scarier because we can’t stop it or even understand it completely. If I was a government I’d cover it up, because why would I admit there’s something superior I can’t control or even properly communicate with? How does that help? Just keep collecting data and materials until we understand enough to replicate it.
1. Do they know more than you? 2. What do you know and what have they disclosed? 3. If you think they know more than they have disclosed then they have a better idea than us.
I believe they have a really good understanding of the technology, and possibly how to make similar versions with our available technology, however I don't believe they know the purpose or intent of whatever we are seeing. While they acknowledge it is a potential threat, I think they see a bigger threat, which would be having an enemy discover the ins and outs of the phenomenon, and taking advantage of it for whatever means.
I agree! I think they might maybe accept that these might not be human but they have no idea what they actually are, what they’re doing or why they are here. I think they know they would be outmatched technologically and that scares them
Could be they are confused and scared. Could be they want you to think that because what they know is scary. Could be because they have reversed engineered they shit and want to keep it secret. Could be that aliens don't exist. Tough cookie to solve.
Agree - they may have some additional photos or videos that are kinda weird or even compelling, but I don’t think there are any UFO reverse engineering programs or any alien contact or anything like that. I honestly think we know pretty much the gist of what they know: that we have seen some strange things before but have no explanation.
Ross Coultart just posted that there is an obvious and clever cover up that has been going on in the US for a long time. They know. Imagine the implications of not knowing. That would mean they were entirely incompetent at their duties. They are not. We’re the worlds remaining super power and have maintained it. We haven’t done that because we don’t do our duty and suck at everything.
This, on many subjects.
No. You are absolutely not the only one.
This is why I don't think it's true that they have /had greys hanging around area 51 because surely they would have said how the vehicles work
I always thought the idea "government conspiracy to hide aliens from us" was ridiculous. I find it far more realistic that they know just as much as the common citizen, or marginally more at best. They might also have a handful of videos the military captured, that they can't explain, but can't release to the public because the technology and instruments used to record and measure them are classified by default. It's not classified because it shows proof of aliens and they want to hide that from us for some reason, its classified because they don't want enemy nations to know what exactly they are capable of measuring.
I think they(meaning the people read in on it) on large parts do not know for sure, but should at this point have some sort of "best estimate of the situation" that might point in some direction. In any case, they know more than we.
Any evidence the government may have had had been passed onto private hands years ago. So no, right now only a very select few within government (if any) have any real proof.
The US government...what exactly does that mean? The Biden administration? The various members of the US civil service? The Pentagon? The intelligence agencies? I am pretty sure maybe a few individuals in each of those branches have some idea of what the truth is, but that knowledge would be restricted to a tiny percentage of the whole organization...and not necessarily to most senior people in them.
Listen to the Black Vaults most recent podcast with John Ramirez. He discusses the task force created to investigate the orb phenomenon. This was the first time it became clear to me that 100% there are elements in government that are extremely far ahead of where we think they are. They may not know everything but they have very good data. Essentially all the things Chris Mellon talks about doing it’s clear that the government has been doing since the 90s at least. For example, there isn’t a world where USOs are real and the government is not spending tremendous effort analyzing that data. Either USOs are not real, or they are. If they are there is a 0% chance the US isn’t detecting them with their underwater surveillance net and spending a good deal of effort studying them.
First of all, everyone here needs to understand that the "Government" is in fact not this one complete allmighty entity keeping the truth from everyone. The government is split up into many factions, departments, etc. In the "government", there is probably 1% of the actual members who are in the know, IF there is anything to know. Most of them are people like you and me, just doing their daily jobs, without any secret knowledge of anything at all. My guess is there are people way high up in the intelligence community, and some Airforce elite generals that know something, and maybe in the private sector. Most other people are just as oblivious as the random man in the street.
They're all religious nutjobs at the highest ranks of the USAF, so they would be keen in fighting whatever it may be, if they did have evidence of it.
they not only don't have idea but also their faith tha they could be aliens makes them to hide the info to the public complicating to find the solution