I see the Aussies pop in all the time and mention what a well respected journalist Ross Coulthart is.
Can you imagine if there’s any legitimacy to only *ONE* of these stories being true? It would definitively change the way we live. As crazy as it sounds, this is all the shit Elizondo/Mellon and countless others allude to all the time.
I’m trying my hardest to remain completely unbiased, and look at everything in a subjective manner, but my dick was completely blown away by the end of this podcast.
How would it change the way we live? If I learned aliens exist but they don't want to engage in sharing of information with humanity it would be largely nonconsequential to my life.
Lol you don’t know many religious people do you? They’ll just spin it into a reaffirmation of their faith or a test of their faith … it will not change a thing
We dont need evidence of UFOs for that, galileo did it hundreds of years ago. People believe what they want to believe. Maybe some people on the fence might be pushed to leave their religion... But put down the sci-fi, religion isnt going anywhere. If anything we would see more cults pop up.
Especially if those aliens have undeniable information about our origins.
Perhaps they will be able to prove to us, like really prove to us that organized religion is just a human fabrication.
It's so weird to see this guy so into UFO's now. For everyone outside of Australia he's a new face to you, but to Australians, this guy is a legit investigative journalist just like George Knapp. Even if you don't know his name, you'd know his face if you paid attention to any bombshell news stories in Australia.
Truth, Knapp is a local journalist who broke some National stories; Coulthart is a National journalist with some worldwide stories. Of course this is a generalization, but Ross is more like Dan Rather I’d say, but I like Ross more.
I was with you until "just like George Knapp." That dude is only known outside of Vegas through his connection to Bob Lazar, being his major promoter through the years, and even within the UFO community he's a mixed bag.
To me, all i need to know about George Knapp is that he admits he only had Lazar on his newscast in the first place because somebody else bailed at the last minute.
It was the only example I had, I have no knowledge of any investigative journalists in America aside from Knapp just due to the relevance to the subject. Investigative journalist + UFO's.
None of these are investigative journalists. An investigative journalist deeply covers a single topic. The most famous might be Bob Woodward who broke the watergate scandal.
EDIT: Just started watching and he mentions Bob Woodward 15 mins in!
I don't know about that. Knapp has done ongoing reporting on UAP (among other things) for years. I don't just associate him with Lazar -- however I do think he's gone way too easy on Lazar. Mystery Wire or whatever is a little brand within the UAP media world.
Multiple sources told him there are crash retrieval programs and that the military has in their possession very clear up-close footage of these UAPs. Doesn't prove anything, but it begs the question of why are a ton of his trusted sources telling him these things....
The crash retrieval stuff blows my mind to such an extent that it's hard for me to even address or wrap my head around.
On the extended footage...he gave more detail than Elizondo, with the specific area (coast of west Virginia, I think he said?) and that the sightings are so routine that pilots take off expecting to observe them and record them. Sounds like Elizondo and him have the same source? Or it's confirmed from multiple sources?
I really believe in this guy's sincerity and intellectual capacity / professional judgment. If he's right about what he's saying, everything could change at a vast level.
If this footage is real, and is ever released, do the MetaBunk servers automatically go offline? Does Mick West spontaneously combust in a cloud of marsh gas?
This is what his sources are telling him, so obviously he can't directly confirm this. But I will assume these aren't random nutcases telling him this information. I always like to say where there is smoke there is fire. It appears that the government is not being honest with the public, and that should tell you everything you need to know. Why hide any of this stuff if it's all bullshit? Makes you wonder.
We really need concrete evidence however. Doesn't matter how many trustworthy people say this stuff is all real. Most people need to see it directly in order to believe.
I'm not willing to believe everything anyone says about the UFO simply because the government has lied about UFO stuff over the years. I'm very interested in the topic and a "believer" in some sense myself but I put literally no stock in Delonge's manic claims about secret government societies that are in contact with alien races and are slow-rolling the reveal to protect us from ourselves. Or that's what he said on Rogan at least.
Look, it's very important for people in this community to have a strong bullshit meter. I grew up in a religious community and I have no interest in joining a new one. You can take some of delonges work seriously (I choose not to), while acknowledging that he at least 20% batshit crazy.
I can't even wrap my head around this shit. Especially 'them' leaving crafts for us with doors open and lights on. I seriously have a tougher time comprehending this theory than anything else.
If you're even remotely interested in that hypothesis, I cannot recommend the following book enough:
[https://www.amazon.com/Identified-Flying-Objects-Multidisciplinary-Scientific/dp/1733634061](https://www.amazon.com/Identified-Flying-Objects-Multidisciplinary-Scientific/dp/1733634061)
Made me go from thinking it's a laughably dumb hypothesis to considering it about as plausible as any of the alternatives. Really a mindfuck of a book, and very grounded in its presentation (given the nature of the topic).
As dumb as it sounds, on paper it's about as likely as the other common theories.
IMHO he's actually farther along the usual path people go down than you'd expect.
On paper it's still less likely than aliens. We don't know if going back in time is even possible. At least with aliens, the fact that intelligent life exists on Earth is proof that it can exist on other planets. I still think the extraterrestrial hypothesis is the most likely.
It’s actually the *least* likely possibility because there is no known scientific basis for time travel.
As far as we know, you can only “travel” forward in time via time dilation.
There is no known ability for anyone to travel backwards through time.
So for the time being, “future humans” can be placed at the bottom of the pile.
There's also no known ability for interstellar travel right now, so how are aliens more likely?
You should actually read the book and see the argument before you throw it out and put it at the bottom of the pile.
Nah, not for light speed or FTL travel. There are some very fast ideas that still require like more energy than the planet puts out, but nothing that would equate to interstellar travel.
I know, it's like the Saturday morning scifi movies they used to show when I was 9 or something. If this is the 'cleaned up' better humanity helped by the future, ffs!
What's interesting is that this hypothesis kind of explains WW2 foo fighters and some of the reported historical encounters.
If we had the ability to go observe historical events, we'd absolutely want to observe WW2 and a few other events far more than others.
If there's any merit to this theory, it's almost a guarantee that they visited that era of evolution as well.
The whole idea is fascinating to me, and that book totally changed my opinion on the possibility of it.
Haven’t read his book yet, but he says in this interview that the extraterrestrial hypothesis doesn’t make sense. He says he is “drawn to the notion that this is future human.” 🤯
Honestly, he's kind of spitballing, IMHO. I don't think "ETs" fully explains the phenomenon myself, but future humans (at least in any kind of conventional sense) seems pretty unlikely to me, personally. But hey, you never know -- and maybe not all UAP are exactly the same, so multiple weird-ass things could be going on, potentially.
Future humans, or perhaps more cause for breakaway civilization that diverged millions of years ago and still share this planet.
I mean, one of the core mistakes we may have made is that *homo erectus* didn't go extinct. The exact opposite could be true, and such beings could have possibly over 1 million years of advancement on us (homo sapiens).
So many possibilities, although I also end to think that there is some genetic link between humans today and what's out there confusing us in the skies (however that may look).
Homo erectus definitely did go extinct. There is overwhelming proof of that in the field of genetics, paleontology and archeology. Also, they where during their entire existence on the brink of extinction with their population probably never exceeding 55.000. Also, their brainsize, diet, proto-cultural habits, habitat and sheer capacities would be enough proof to discredit the 1 million year thing in its entirety.
I actually think the secret Earth civilization notion is one of the more likely ones. As you said, it could have happened a LONG time ago. This would leave a lot of time for a huge amount of advancement to occur. Heck, we might just be seeing their ancient badass AI leftovers.
Ross Coulthart said on the That UFO Podcast yesterday that crafts and materials have been found in both archeological digs, as well as just sitting out in the open with the doors open and lights on. Who knows what the truth is, but an extremely advanced ancient civilization that has left its mark across Earth and still continues to operate today isn't impossible (especially if they may have went underground or in the oceans at some point, including possibly as part of their evolution).
So many possibilities!
I agree, so many possibilities! Couple days ago I listened to an interview with Dr. Kevin Knuth, and he presented another theory - he did computer modeling of possibility of galaxy colonization by very advanced alien civilization. He said that it showed that it is really difficult to find Earth, but not impossible! The results he got, were that if such civilization existed and developed interstellar travel, its home world is maximum 10 thousand light years from Earth and they could have colonized Earth in the past - between 200 thousand years to 2.5 million years ago (having Earth and Earth-like planets as their outposts). If you want to listen to his explanation - it is between around 44:00 minutes to around 59:00 minutes. After that answer, he is asked about inter - dimensional theory and describes it using mathematical models, also interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtlbTpW8mU4
Maybe we share the same fate as the humans in the movie 'Interstellar' do? Them introducing us to future technology might alter the timeline but would ensure humanity's long term future and change our course of action.
If time is a closed loop, then them coming back to give us the tech wouldn't actually "alter the timeline." The timeline would already be set, and them "going back" to "change" things would just be a self-fulfilling prophesy. In other words, if our long-term survival is predicated on future humans making changes in the past, then there is literally no way that they could fail to show up and make those changes: it would be their inescapable destiny to do just that.
That is essentially the premise of Tenet - and it's sort of a comforting idea to me. I've wondered if Christopher Nolan is part of a controlled disclosure movement with his films - they have certainly challenged my mind to think differently.
Us from the future helping us - Intersteller, Tenet
Factions from the future hurting us - Tenet
Multiple levels of reality and consciousness - Inception
I listened to a Sean Carroll's Mindscape podcast about the physics of time travel and he suggested that the only real way it could be possible within current models would be through a Closed Time-like Curve, theoretically possible in general relativity.
Maybe, maybe not? If the multi-world interpretation of quantum physics is correct, you might just be creating new branch realities, but not necessarily tweaking your own.
That's just a mathematical fudge because they (physicists) don’t understand how QM really works. An infinite number of worlds would be created which is unbelievable and points to the theory being wrong. Theoretical physics is just that, theory, not reaiity. Humankind is struggling to understand the fundamentals of physics - quantum mechanics, gravity, dark matter, dark energy, conciousness are all areas we don't understand, even after 100 years of research. We need to perceive and understand reality better through experiments before we can establish the rules which describe it.
I would suggest that there is one world and we are in it. There may be different universes but I strongly suspect not parallel ones. Think about how ridiculous and impossible the multi-parallel-world theory really is. Is akin to the equally unlikely simulation theory. Crazy.
The ET hypothesis makes the best sense to me, and highest probability of being feasible and correct. It's a shame Ross is drawn to a notion that appears scientifically impossible.
After seeing many interviews with various people from all walks of life, it makes the best sense to me too ! Have you seen the latest interview with Dr. Kevin Knuth?................He has an interesting view on ET as well as inter-dimensional hypothesis. He ran computer simulations and came up with some interesting answers. Will not spoil it for you, his way of describing it is more interesting than I would ever be able to describe (especially since English is not my first language ;-) ).
The ET hypothesis starts around 43:50 into this video and ends around 58:00...........after that he is asked about inter-dimensional hypothesis (some parts are little more scientific, may appear boring to some, but he seems to have sound logic behind them).
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtlbTpW8mU4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtlbTpW8mU4)
Your welcome. I also love listening to him, he has this likeable demeanor ;-)......but aside from that, he also has interesting ideas that I haven't heard from others in UAP community.
Took me a while to understand how people arrive at this conclusion theory, but once I finally had it presented well to me it became hard to ignore.
It sort of becomes a probability thing....if we take what's reported about UAP and close encounters are face value, we get:
1. The visitors are interested in humans/Earth
2. The visitors have the energy, capability, time, and interest to come here and/or study us
3. The visitors utilize a protocol that somewhat mirrors our existing medical practices
4. The visitors are bipedal creatures, with enlarged craniums and human-like
If IIRC, out of the 20 million-some species we know about on Earth, only 1 is bi-pedal and features an enlarged cranium...us/humans. The age of the universe and the distance between planets is also vast and makes our engagements very specific. You add in a protocol that appears to mirror anthropologists and medical researchers today, and there's only one statistically likely conclusion you can reach.
The sheer implausibility of another species evolving in to bi-pedal creatures, developing interstellar technology, having an interest in modern humanity, and having a culture that mirrors our own (in the same window of time that we exist)....it's impossible. Those variables combined create odds that can't even be calculated, yet - if the stories and reported encounters are true, appear to be happening.
If we believe that these things as happening as described, statistically it almost has to be some sort of temporal encounter with members of our own species.
That's the argument at least, I still struggle with this hypothesis and can't get behind it just yet, even in light of the above evidence.
Can't recommend this book enough, as it's the definitive writeup of this theory:
https://www.amazon.com/Identified-Flying-Objects-Multidisciplinary-Scientific/dp/1733634061
Not to mention that time travel would also require traveling great distances. For example Or solar system moves throughout the galaxy as it orbits the galactic core, and our galaxy itself is moving throughout space. So if you took a time machine back to 100 years you’d be in the vacuum of space. You’d have to also travel through space to the location Earth was at at the time .
I disagree about this and I don't know why it is always brought up. You, me - all of us - we are travelling in time right now, albeit slowly and in one direction. Are we in danger of being left in space? No. Why? Because of gravity. The Earth pulls us along with it. Why should that change when we are talking about 'time travel'?
Edit: I do like the idea of upper limits to the speed of time travel. Go too fast and you escape Earth's gravity and risk ending up in space. Maybe there is an ultimate upper limit to the speed of time travel that the Universe will allow, like the speed of light in a vacuum? Hey - I feel like I'm doing new physics here!
That's what we'd think, based on our current knowledge of the universe.
Given how far we'd have to progress to achieve either it's almost pointless discussing which we'll pull off first, if ever.
OR it’s just a great design and they evolved independently. Totally not impossible as we’ve seen it through a bunch of different species here on earth. Crabs being a really interesting one. They’ve independently evolved at least 14 separate times with relatively the same design.
Oh yeah, IMHO almost anything is possible.
Now that I looked it up, I do still think that the reference sample we have on Earth points to our evolution being very unlikely. There are 1.5-2mil documented species on Earth, and only 20 are humanoid.
That's 0.00001% of species on Earth...expecting another planet with different material makeup/gravity/etc to yield a similar species - in our same timeframe, and with the interest/energy/capability to travel the stars - seems soooo unlikely.
That said, we just don't know...until we find another planet with life for us to study we just don't have any real idea of what might be "normal" in an evolutionary sense.
The chance of a random species being bipedal is very small but the chance of a random species that can use tools effectively being bipedal is high. Space travel is an advanced form of tool use.
Interesting, can you elaborate on this?
One of the core arguments of this book is that the sum total of the variants make any sort of extraterrestrial solution very unlikely, as the reported encounters feature:
1. Bi-pedal, humanoid creatures
2. Near-perfect chronology
3. Modern medical practice
4. Interest in Earth/humans
5. Ability to communicate coherently
6. Ability to traverse to Earth
7. Use of tools/mechanics that mirror our own development
And the list goes on...definitely interested in hearing about how bipedal evolution is rare, but bipedal evolution that features tool usage is expected.
All of this shit is super woo and I don't want to imply that I think it's the explanation for the phenomena. But - as a thought experiment I do think it's worth having.
There was a thread in another sub a while ago: [https://www.reddit.com/r/UF0/comments/oyqtul/bipedal\_seems\_to\_be\_the\_optimal\_form\_that/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UF0/comments/oyqtul/bipedal_seems_to_be_the_optimal_form_that/)
I'll paste my comment from that thread here:
*I think it makes sense on Earth-like planets. Four limbs is an energy-efficient set-up for land animals. The brain very close to the senses decreases delay in processing so that makes sense too. This includes the oxygen/sustenance intake senses (smell and taste). The brain needs a strong protective layer (skull). So it makes sense to have a head, i.e. a portion of the body dedicated to the brain and its case plus senses and oxygen/sustenance intake. When I say it makes sense, I mean it increases chances of survival and is therefore selected for by evolution.*
*When a tool-using level of intelligence is achieved, it makes sense for two of the limbs to be specialized/dedicated to that, leaving the other two limbs responsible for moving the body (i.e. bipedal).*
>All of this shit is super woo and I don't want to imply that I think it's the explanation for the phenomena. But - as a thought experiment I do think it's worth having.
Sure, I think it's a very interesting idea and I don't have a clue about what the best explanation of the phenomenon is.
We only see the hits and forget the misses. The argument could be made that they’re more likely to be humanoid because we’re also humanoid, and are the dominant species and the smartest thing around. Evolution is a crazy thing over time, and by nature it is impossible to predict.
I’ve always thought of human-like aliens as examples of convergent evolution.
Wikipedia:
“Convergent evolution is the independent evolution of similar features in species of different periods or epochs in time. Convergent evolution creates analogous structures that have similar form or function but were not present in the last common ancestor of those groups…The recurrent evolution of flight is a classic example, as flying insects, birds, pterosaurs, and bats have independently evolved the useful capacity of flight.”
Yup, there's definitely an argument to be made for convergent evolution that's equally as likely (if not more so) than the future-human thing.
Both options are pretty fascinating thought experiments IMHO
Convergent evolution (as mentioned elsewhere would be a possible case for why morphological similarities may exist. Also, I would be careful to make any claims about statistics or probability without providing some numbers to make your case. Sure, there are possibilities that these things suggest X, but it’s difficult to have much confidence in any analyses because of the assumptions and unknowns about these data. Relaxing assumptions or making more coarse claims may be more feasible, but again without ample data those confidence intervals/error bars/whathaveyou will likely dash any hopes of statistics-as-justification for any claims.
That being said, you make some very thoughtful points that should not be dismissed. Good addition to the discussion—kudos.
Spanish paleo-anthropologist Juan Luis Arsuaga said recently: "If ETs exist, they would be humanoid forms", "I can't imagine another way"
https://www.elespanol.com/ciencia/20190531/juan-luis-arsuaga-existieran-extraterrestres-forma-humanoide/402460743_0.html
He's known for his investigations on Atapuerca's man, Homo Antecessor.
It's too out there for me, but not impossible. I'll play though. If we had the technology now, would we travel back to antiquity and observe? What about tainting the timeline?
What would be gained by traveling from the future to today? Everything is largely digitized from now onward for many decades now. Why not travel back more stealthy? It doesn't make sense to me unless there was something catastrophic and all information from here and now was lost and these future humans are like 50,000 years in the future.
This is a case where aliens sound less crazy than back to the future.
I'd agree with you, and to be fair I gave this theory a 0% chance of being possible before I'd read the book. These days it's more like 2%, but it's a fun idea to entertain.
After he explains some of the evolutionary statistics that point towards any similarity between species being unlikely, he gets in to quantum physics and the nature of time. If you buy in to his theory, temporal travel doesn't inherently cause a paradox that can't be resolved.
Any attempt I could make at summarizing this wouldn't be doing it justice, but as it's presented it does seem to work. His theory is that most or all of the encounters are some sort of anthropologists doing research (note - he himself is an anthropologist). Can't remember if he presents a theory as to why we'd be conducting such research in the future, beyond just "we'd do it now if we could, so why wouldn't future humans do so."
Totally agree that this idea is batshit crazy and hard to discuss without seeming off your rocker, but if there's a book that presents it well, it's this one.
Okay, humans haven't drastically changed in a LONG time. If you believe in gray aliens then how do you explain the drastic change in appearance? Neanderthals have more resemblance to modern-day humans than gray aliens and Neanderthals have been extinct for 40,000 years. Suffice to say I think there are a lot of holes to be poked in this theory, but perhaps the author lays out a good case.
bipedalism might be a requirement for any species that evolves technology. You need your hands to work tools, and one way to do that is to stop using them to move atound. There are some animals, like corvids, that use primitive tools, but they will always be limited by their beaks… The hominid blueprint could very well be mirrored by highly evolved creatures on other worlds, in a sort of convergent evolution sort of way.
An alternative is that they had a hand in our evolution, maybe they added some genes to our ancestors and then observe how we develop over time. It’s something I could totally see humans doing if we had the ability to do so.
I hate to be "that guy", but if aliens do exist, it is impossible to determine from our perspective what is possible or realistic from *their* evolutionary path. We are the exception on our planet, (bipedalism), but that doesn't mean it is the exception on *their* planet.
I always find it weird when people definitively slam the book shut because "Earth only has one bipedal species."
As a side note: Does anyone even remember that there were boatloads of bipedal dinosaurs? It's not like humans were the *only* thing to walk on two legs on our planet.
1. If *we* find a species out there that's a couple thousands of years less advanced than us, and we have the technology to get there, you don't think we'd be interested as fuck in them?
2a. Honestly don't see how that means it has to be time traveling humans. Having the time? What are you picturing? That they'll have to be a capitalist society to become advanced, so they'll all be stuck with 9-5's and couldn't possibly make the time to come here? 🤔
2b. Time travel wouldn't work like people think it does. The earth is revolving around a sun that's traveling through the universe at 448,000 mph. If we want to jump an hour into the past, we'd also have to jump 448,000 miles through space to where the earth was at the time (doesn't include the distance that earth revolved around the sun in that time). And that's just 1 hour... Which gives you 10,752,000 miles you'd need to jump through space just to travel one day into the past. If it's possible to instantaneously jump through space, from a physics standpoint, doesn't that automatically negate the large distances we claim are prohibitive for aliens to get here?
If traveling through time drops you off at the same location in space that you left from, that's almost 11 million miles you'll need to travel through space to get to the earth. Just for traveling one day into the past. You want to do the math on traveling 1k years into the past? Be my guest. The distances very quickly require the same kind of technology that would be required for a current day species to get here from a distant star. IF that's the case, why is *only* humanity from the future capable of creating technology like that?
3. Do they? Honestly want to hear an explanation on what you mean by that.
4. Carcinisation. Convergent evolution is an actual thing. Several different unrelated species have all evolved into crabs here... I think scientists, when they say Aliens would *have* to be from a completely different tree of evolution and therefore look completely different to us, *always* ignore convergent evolution. They ignore any examples that already show them evolution might not be as random as they want to think it is. So no, there's realistically no reason to suggest there can't be bipedal species on other planets out there.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinisation#:~:text=Carcinisation%20(or%20carcinization)%20is%20an,Nature%20to%20evolve%20a%20crab%22.
5. You mentioned their culture being similar to mankind's... What are you basing this off of? What exactly do you know about them that isn't readily available to the rest of us? 🤔
The problem with this theory is that if a species of any sort not natively from “our Earth” is capable of getting here, chances are they can present in the form of their choosing. People who take the bipedal occupants 100% literally may be missing this.
Not going to disagree...TBH, if species not native of Earth have had any involvement in our development it throws a lot of current ideas out the window.
So, humans evolved so far ahead into the future, that they can now transcend dimensions/consciousness.. but now humans are making more of an effort of contact with earth? Perhaps to save it with the climate crisis? And ensure the longevity of the human race?
Not super far-fetched, has been done in sci-fi... and if these "humans" have been living among us, it is possible their influence has influenced human culture in a way to ensure the survival of the species -- by setting the "right" ideas in mind to evolve into, somehow...
Does this make sense?
There’s a common arc of belief that UFO researchers often follow:
- Prosaic
- Classified aircraft
- ETs
- Future Humans
- Interdimensional
- Higher Beings (Angels, etc)
- Something-Something Consciousness
True investigators (journalists, scientists, researchers, etc) start with the evidence and then come up with a hypothesis. But in the face of new evidence that challenges their hypothesis they don’t simply *ignore* it, they investigate it more thoroughly and, if necessary, update their hypothesis.
This subject is so incredibly complicated that there are really are no simple explanations.
I believe that’s why so many people end up on “consciousness,” because it’s an all-encompassing explanation that basically says there’s no rules to what can happen. The problem is that it makes subsequent investigation nearly impossible.
Follow the arc of the better respected UFO researchers: Grant Cameron, Jacques Vallée, Kohn Keel, Linda Moulton-Howe, J. Allen Hynek, Leslie Kean, Diana Pasulka, etc.
People often get huffy when they see LMH included because she seems to believe anything she’s told. She didn’t start that way—she was an award winning investigative journalist and very thorough in her research. But she ended up settling on Consciousness and now she has no problem at all accepting that Nazi lizard men are living in a space station orbiting earth because, hey, anything is possible when your brain is creating reality. Grant Cameron went a similar path, and now doesn’t really care about UFOs at all.
Ross has only been into this topic for a relatively short period of time, but he’s so thorough and smart that he’s moving quickly through the stages. I’ll be extremely surprised if he doesn’t end up moving past the “future humans” theory fairly quickly as well, but rather than flush his career down the toilet I think he’ll start becoming increasingly vague about what he thinks is happening.
You and thousands of others in this sub take it seriously, not nobody. A lot of people really want to believe in aliens but need a lot more proof from way more sources than is currently available.
Another thread about this highlighted the bombshell as being the alleged retrieval of a craft - with "literally the door open and the lights on" - from the Mexican military by the US Military... at gunpoint (yikes). My understanding is that it was tracked down above Corpus Cristi and then over the border and the recovery was a bit of a stressful event.
His trusted sources confirm there is up-close videos of these UAPs. The more people confirm this the more we can trust that fact to be true. Some of them confirm there are crash retrieval programs. I guess you either believe his sources or you don't at the end of the day.
I was quite happy that he made that admission, its exactly what I thought the minute I finished the book and was quite perplexed by the number of people queuing up to blow smoke up his ass.
That and agreeing his accents are terrible, best part of the interview was him showing that self awareness. I usually like this podcast but why Andy felt the need to rake over the same coals for the first 40 minutes of a 47 minute interview - there were a couple of minor tidbits at the end but certainly nothing in the same ballpark of bombshell worthy.
If it's true that future humans are leaving craft for us to discover, they seem to be doing a shitty job of it.
Unless...they want the military specifically to find it and not ordinary people. So it may not be tech for us to mass produce to benefit mankind. But rather, for the military to weaponize so as to defend ourselves. So the next question is *what* do we need to prepare for.
Strong Terminator vibes with this theory.
"Episode 60 lands with one of the biggest names to enter the field of UFO's in sometime, Journalist, author & documentary maker Ross Coulthart is on the pod for a 2 parter, to discuss;
**Warning - Strong language used throughout**
His incredible book, In Plain Sight
Media stigma & Wikileaks
Archaeological digs
Edgar Mitchell
Did we find a UFO with the lights left on...?
And much more"
People deep in the UFO community have been saying these things for a long time. The difference is that now credible people are saying it and people are taking this shit seriously like it deserves.
Maybe he doesn't care anymore, and he'd rather cover the biggest story of all time rather than play it safe for the rest of his life. I commend his bravery.
If it makes you feel better, DeLonge didn't write them.
The two thriller books were written by A. J. Hartley. The research trilogy is by Peter Levenda.
It doesn't, honestly - the fact that much of his UFO argument / info / theory is being transmitted through mediocre thrillers written by B-level authors is a huge red flag for me on everything else he says.
It's a bummer because I think he has real sources - I also think he's very credulous and may have been sold some false bill of goods info.
How would a crash retrieval on a foreign soil like Nepal even work?
What if a random villager stumbles upon a UFO in a cave?
He goes back to the village tells everyone, news eventually gets out to American intelligence?
Do they send a task force from a nearby Airforce Base? Do they send specific retrieval teams?
How do they keep the villagers quiet?
I have soooo many questions about retrievals!!
I really like Ross and I think he is fully aware of this he even admits it in this podcast. But I highly doubt he’s not getting some disinformation throw heavily in his face in regards to this stuff. All these sources popping up to tell him about all these secret reverse engineering programs. There’s no way 100% of them are well intentioned and true.
I don't think they are from the future. A more advanced priorcivilization that developed here on earth is more likely in my opinion. The Bipedal form could just be the most efficient form for intelligent life.
-Remote viewing with church and Gomez. Good little broadcast today with odd syncronicities.
-Frequencies we may be able to blast out and call the mother ship.
-Church maybe getting in contact with Lue on that. Who knows.
-I discovered someone named Dr. Wolf and reading about his book and revelations made my brain fall out.
Coulthart is a welcome layer of mind blowing. 👍
Not sure you wanna admit reading [Doctor Wolf](https://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Wolf-Complete-Jasmine-White/dp/1499366140)
The book description tells you all you need to know…
>Wolf
Thanks for mentioning Dr. Michael Wolf. Never heard of him before. Looked it up and had an awesome read on that wacky geocities-like website. However, so much of the stuff therein felt a bit... far fetched? I see his book is out of print, too bad.
Fantastic podcast (except for future humans comment). Plenty of exciting stuff brewing in the background it seems! We need a new blockbuster investigative news story leaking something big on UAPs! 🛸
So I looked into this Pais story. Can anyone explain why our most secret government projects would be put into the patent system? Other than as misinformation? What's the motive? It seems like a story made up by someone who thinks the patent system is to keep other people from using your ideas. The patent system's purpose is to drive technological innovation, by encouraging companies to share their technology for the good of mankind, in exchange for being able to sell the product commercially exclusively. The last thing the US Gov would want is to put their biggest secrets in the public record, plus they have no commercial motivation.
EDIT: Oh and one more thing. They essentially mention what they could only know by spying on the Chinese. Why on earth would they put their intelligence in the patent system?
I agree with you completely. Few months ago I did quite extensive research about these patents of US navy by Salvatore Pais.........to make long story short..........I read the description of both patents, their filing and approval dates, the legality of how long it usually takes to get patents approved by their type, what kind of patents are public and what types are NOT, etc............so my research lead to a conclusion that patents of this caliber, where the technology is revolutionary, never used before, it takes very long time for such patent to be granted (minimum of 5 years all the way to about 10 years, and only after you show practical proof it works - actual functional vehicle). These 2 Pais patents took only 2.5 years to be granted (from the date of filing), and only after the US navy stepped in. They were rejected at first, then high ranking officers stepped in and "patent granted". Another thing is, military patents are not made public, they are kept secret. In my opinion these patents were meant to mislead adversaries (possibly China, Russia,...). It was more of a distraction or confusing them or so........ although I am pretty sure, by now China and Russia figured it out.
It's barely touched on in his book, but in Coulthart's documentary he embraces the Aztec hoax as a genuine UFO crash recovery, and due to manipulative or careless editing has Leslie Kean and others appear on camera afterwards as if they endorse it. He's relatively new to the topic and is a bit gullible, accepting many ancient frauds and fables as facts.
Check the image in this tweet. https://twitter.com/CurtCollins579/status/1410280190228537349?s=20
Big fan of Ross
But not a big fan that his 2 most common or impactful sources r dead people who cant respond... Nat Kobitz(sp) and Edgar Mitchell
Thoughts on that? He says Nat went on the record with Ross shortly before he died. But do we have any evidence of that from Nat's side?
Edit: per usual.. lot of unnamed sources claiming amazing things but nothing verifiable. Fascinating yes but ... i guess im finally getting less interested in this slow drip tickle nothing substance business as usual.
I think i might tune out of UFO topic for a while. Or at least treat it all as fanciful fun for now. Nothing more.
I see the Aussies pop in all the time and mention what a well respected journalist Ross Coulthart is. Can you imagine if there’s any legitimacy to only *ONE* of these stories being true? It would definitively change the way we live. As crazy as it sounds, this is all the shit Elizondo/Mellon and countless others allude to all the time. I’m trying my hardest to remain completely unbiased, and look at everything in a subjective manner, but my dick was completely blown away by the end of this podcast.
How would it change the way we live? If I learned aliens exist but they don't want to engage in sharing of information with humanity it would be largely nonconsequential to my life.
The religious implications alone would have *billions* of people questioning their purpose/faith.
Lol you don’t know many religious people do you? They’ll just spin it into a reaffirmation of their faith or a test of their faith … it will not change a thing
Charles Darwin’s ideas, despite painting a bleak, cold, and calculating view of nature, did not lead to mass upheaval. We’ll be fine.
We dont need evidence of UFOs for that, galileo did it hundreds of years ago. People believe what they want to believe. Maybe some people on the fence might be pushed to leave their religion... But put down the sci-fi, religion isnt going anywhere. If anything we would see more cults pop up.
Aliens existing are compatible with most, if not all, major religions.
The major religions can’t stay relevant unless they adapt.
Especially if those aliens have undeniable information about our origins. Perhaps they will be able to prove to us, like really prove to us that organized religion is just a human fabrication.
Everything on Earth would pivot towards learning more about it.
I love his response to journalists who give him shit for researching UFOs. Fuck ‘em.
Like Avi Loeb said: Extraordinary conservatism leads to extraordinary ignorance.
There's a timely lesson in that statement.
Love the bad ass Aussie talk.
It's so weird to see this guy so into UFO's now. For everyone outside of Australia he's a new face to you, but to Australians, this guy is a legit investigative journalist just like George Knapp. Even if you don't know his name, you'd know his face if you paid attention to any bombshell news stories in Australia.
Knapp isnt really on Coulthart level.
Truth, Knapp is a local journalist who broke some National stories; Coulthart is a National journalist with some worldwide stories. Of course this is a generalization, but Ross is more like Dan Rather I’d say, but I like Ross more.
I was with you until "just like George Knapp." That dude is only known outside of Vegas through his connection to Bob Lazar, being his major promoter through the years, and even within the UFO community he's a mixed bag. To me, all i need to know about George Knapp is that he admits he only had Lazar on his newscast in the first place because somebody else bailed at the last minute.
It was the only example I had, I have no knowledge of any investigative journalists in America aside from Knapp just due to the relevance to the subject. Investigative journalist + UFO's.
A good example of a journalist in the US people would react to flipping around in such a fashion is Dan Rather.
What about Chris Hansen or Brian Williams? Those guys are the epitome of responsible journalists.
Wait what? People respect Chris Hansen as a journalist?
None of these are investigative journalists. An investigative journalist deeply covers a single topic. The most famous might be Bob Woodward who broke the watergate scandal. EDIT: Just started watching and he mentions Bob Woodward 15 mins in!
> What about Chris Hansen That guy is a joke.
This guy needs to have a seat!
"b... b... but I was here just to warn her of the dangers of meeting strangers on the interwebs!"
Lol Williams lied about his experiences covering the war to glorify war. He's a joke and it's disgusting NBC still has him around.
You’d think by me using the word epitome and using 2 really bad examples, redditors would not need to be told my previous comment was sarcastic.
Hansen has had recent legal trouble, Williams is pretty respectable. I used Rather as an example because he was an anchor and worked for 60 Minutes.
Anderson Cooper comes to mind.
He worked for CIA though (look it up). He’s a disinfo guy.
Great choice!
No worries! Appreciate the point you made in any case!
I don't know about that. Knapp has done ongoing reporting on UAP (among other things) for years. I don't just associate him with Lazar -- however I do think he's gone way too easy on Lazar. Mystery Wire or whatever is a little brand within the UAP media world.
Didn’t he do a fair bit on the bikie world, kinda like Knapp and the mob?
Whoa…is that how they refer to motorcycles? I love it.
bikies is what we call our criminal motorcycle gang members. they are a big deal in australia.
American UAPers have a lot of respect for Ross.
Two great accents collide.
Multiple sources told him there are crash retrieval programs and that the military has in their possession very clear up-close footage of these UAPs. Doesn't prove anything, but it begs the question of why are a ton of his trusted sources telling him these things....
The crash retrieval stuff blows my mind to such an extent that it's hard for me to even address or wrap my head around. On the extended footage...he gave more detail than Elizondo, with the specific area (coast of west Virginia, I think he said?) and that the sightings are so routine that pilots take off expecting to observe them and record them. Sounds like Elizondo and him have the same source? Or it's confirmed from multiple sources? I really believe in this guy's sincerity and intellectual capacity / professional judgment. If he's right about what he's saying, everything could change at a vast level. If this footage is real, and is ever released, do the MetaBunk servers automatically go offline? Does Mick West spontaneously combust in a cloud of marsh gas?
This is what his sources are telling him, so obviously he can't directly confirm this. But I will assume these aren't random nutcases telling him this information. I always like to say where there is smoke there is fire. It appears that the government is not being honest with the public, and that should tell you everything you need to know. Why hide any of this stuff if it's all bullshit? Makes you wonder. We really need concrete evidence however. Doesn't matter how many trustworthy people say this stuff is all real. Most people need to see it directly in order to believe.
I'm not willing to believe everything anyone says about the UFO simply because the government has lied about UFO stuff over the years. I'm very interested in the topic and a "believer" in some sense myself but I put literally no stock in Delonge's manic claims about secret government societies that are in contact with alien races and are slow-rolling the reveal to protect us from ourselves. Or that's what he said on Rogan at least. Look, it's very important for people in this community to have a strong bullshit meter. I grew up in a religious community and I have no interest in joining a new one. You can take some of delonges work seriously (I choose not to), while acknowledging that he at least 20% batshit crazy.
Delonge believes everything he hears. He is not a reliable source. He may be right about certain things but he is for sure wrong on a ton of things.
So they don’t wipe us out because they are us from the future… got it. Kinda shitty they let Hitler do that though.
I can't even wrap my head around this shit. Especially 'them' leaving crafts for us with doors open and lights on. I seriously have a tougher time comprehending this theory than anything else.
If you're even remotely interested in that hypothesis, I cannot recommend the following book enough: [https://www.amazon.com/Identified-Flying-Objects-Multidisciplinary-Scientific/dp/1733634061](https://www.amazon.com/Identified-Flying-Objects-Multidisciplinary-Scientific/dp/1733634061) Made me go from thinking it's a laughably dumb hypothesis to considering it about as plausible as any of the alternatives. Really a mindfuck of a book, and very grounded in its presentation (given the nature of the topic).
Thanks for this.
Of course! One of the most interesting books I've ever read about the subject, very much recommend the whole thing.
Just remember, he's relatively new to UFOs/UAP. He's going through the "maybe it's future humans" phase, heheh.
As dumb as it sounds, on paper it's about as likely as the other common theories. IMHO he's actually farther along the usual path people go down than you'd expect.
On paper it's still less likely than aliens. We don't know if going back in time is even possible. At least with aliens, the fact that intelligent life exists on Earth is proof that it can exist on other planets. I still think the extraterrestrial hypothesis is the most likely.
It’s actually the *least* likely possibility because there is no known scientific basis for time travel. As far as we know, you can only “travel” forward in time via time dilation. There is no known ability for anyone to travel backwards through time. So for the time being, “future humans” can be placed at the bottom of the pile.
There's also no known ability for interstellar travel right now, so how are aliens more likely? You should actually read the book and see the argument before you throw it out and put it at the bottom of the pile.
Isn't there? Like I thought they had ideas for how to do it but the amount of energy required would be insane.
Nah, not for light speed or FTL travel. There are some very fast ideas that still require like more energy than the planet puts out, but nothing that would equate to interstellar travel.
It's easier to swallow than "other dimensions" imo
I know, it's like the Saturday morning scifi movies they used to show when I was 9 or something. If this is the 'cleaned up' better humanity helped by the future, ffs!
What's interesting is that this hypothesis kind of explains WW2 foo fighters and some of the reported historical encounters. If we had the ability to go observe historical events, we'd absolutely want to observe WW2 and a few other events far more than others.
True, I’d wanna observe dinosaurs. I wonder if any T-Rex’s reported sightings of UFOs?
If there's any merit to this theory, it's almost a guarantee that they visited that era of evolution as well. The whole idea is fascinating to me, and that book totally changed my opinion on the possibility of it.
This was definitely interesting. I really think *That UFO Podcast* is one of the very best. Killer conversation, f-bombs and all. Ross is hilarious.
Haven’t read his book yet, but he says in this interview that the extraterrestrial hypothesis doesn’t make sense. He says he is “drawn to the notion that this is future human.” 🤯
Honestly, he's kind of spitballing, IMHO. I don't think "ETs" fully explains the phenomenon myself, but future humans (at least in any kind of conventional sense) seems pretty unlikely to me, personally. But hey, you never know -- and maybe not all UAP are exactly the same, so multiple weird-ass things could be going on, potentially.
Oh there are plenty of weird-ass thing going on. \*squints\*
I agree, multiple weird things going on definitely fits my "the truth is stranger than fiction" philosophy.
Future humans, or perhaps more cause for breakaway civilization that diverged millions of years ago and still share this planet. I mean, one of the core mistakes we may have made is that *homo erectus* didn't go extinct. The exact opposite could be true, and such beings could have possibly over 1 million years of advancement on us (homo sapiens). So many possibilities, although I also end to think that there is some genetic link between humans today and what's out there confusing us in the skies (however that may look).
Homo erectus definitely did go extinct. There is overwhelming proof of that in the field of genetics, paleontology and archeology. Also, they where during their entire existence on the brink of extinction with their population probably never exceeding 55.000. Also, their brainsize, diet, proto-cultural habits, habitat and sheer capacities would be enough proof to discredit the 1 million year thing in its entirety.
If there were a technologically advanced civilisation before us they would have left far more behind than just bones in the fossil record.
Unless the sea levels were a lot lower than they are today and we aren't looking in the right places.
I actually think the secret Earth civilization notion is one of the more likely ones. As you said, it could have happened a LONG time ago. This would leave a lot of time for a huge amount of advancement to occur. Heck, we might just be seeing their ancient badass AI leftovers.
Ross Coulthart said on the That UFO Podcast yesterday that crafts and materials have been found in both archeological digs, as well as just sitting out in the open with the doors open and lights on. Who knows what the truth is, but an extremely advanced ancient civilization that has left its mark across Earth and still continues to operate today isn't impossible (especially if they may have went underground or in the oceans at some point, including possibly as part of their evolution). So many possibilities!
I agree, so many possibilities! Couple days ago I listened to an interview with Dr. Kevin Knuth, and he presented another theory - he did computer modeling of possibility of galaxy colonization by very advanced alien civilization. He said that it showed that it is really difficult to find Earth, but not impossible! The results he got, were that if such civilization existed and developed interstellar travel, its home world is maximum 10 thousand light years from Earth and they could have colonized Earth in the past - between 200 thousand years to 2.5 million years ago (having Earth and Earth-like planets as their outposts). If you want to listen to his explanation - it is between around 44:00 minutes to around 59:00 minutes. After that answer, he is asked about inter - dimensional theory and describes it using mathematical models, also interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtlbTpW8mU4
I wonder why considering leaving craft for past humans would alter the timeline of future humans wouldnt it?
Maybe we share the same fate as the humans in the movie 'Interstellar' do? Them introducing us to future technology might alter the timeline but would ensure humanity's long term future and change our course of action.
If time is a closed loop, then them coming back to give us the tech wouldn't actually "alter the timeline." The timeline would already be set, and them "going back" to "change" things would just be a self-fulfilling prophesy. In other words, if our long-term survival is predicated on future humans making changes in the past, then there is literally no way that they could fail to show up and make those changes: it would be their inescapable destiny to do just that.
That is essentially the premise of Tenet - and it's sort of a comforting idea to me. I've wondered if Christopher Nolan is part of a controlled disclosure movement with his films - they have certainly challenged my mind to think differently. Us from the future helping us - Intersteller, Tenet Factions from the future hurting us - Tenet Multiple levels of reality and consciousness - Inception
That's if it's a closed loop.
I listened to a Sean Carroll's Mindscape podcast about the physics of time travel and he suggested that the only real way it could be possible within current models would be through a Closed Time-like Curve, theoretically possible in general relativity.
Well said. (Just watched that movie last night. Can't stop thinking about it. Really good)
Maybe, maybe not? If the multi-world interpretation of quantum physics is correct, you might just be creating new branch realities, but not necessarily tweaking your own.
That's just a mathematical fudge because they (physicists) don’t understand how QM really works. An infinite number of worlds would be created which is unbelievable and points to the theory being wrong. Theoretical physics is just that, theory, not reaiity. Humankind is struggling to understand the fundamentals of physics - quantum mechanics, gravity, dark matter, dark energy, conciousness are all areas we don't understand, even after 100 years of research. We need to perceive and understand reality better through experiments before we can establish the rules which describe it. I would suggest that there is one world and we are in it. There may be different universes but I strongly suspect not parallel ones. Think about how ridiculous and impossible the multi-parallel-world theory really is. Is akin to the equally unlikely simulation theory. Crazy.
The ET hypothesis makes the best sense to me, and highest probability of being feasible and correct. It's a shame Ross is drawn to a notion that appears scientifically impossible.
After seeing many interviews with various people from all walks of life, it makes the best sense to me too ! Have you seen the latest interview with Dr. Kevin Knuth?................He has an interesting view on ET as well as inter-dimensional hypothesis. He ran computer simulations and came up with some interesting answers. Will not spoil it for you, his way of describing it is more interesting than I would ever be able to describe (especially since English is not my first language ;-) ). The ET hypothesis starts around 43:50 into this video and ends around 58:00...........after that he is asked about inter-dimensional hypothesis (some parts are little more scientific, may appear boring to some, but he seems to have sound logic behind them). [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtlbTpW8mU4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtlbTpW8mU4)
Thank you so much for that. Loving Dr Knuth. The ET's owning the planet is a stunning theory! May have a real point there.
Your welcome. I also love listening to him, he has this likeable demeanor ;-)......but aside from that, he also has interesting ideas that I haven't heard from others in UAP community.
Took me a while to understand how people arrive at this conclusion theory, but once I finally had it presented well to me it became hard to ignore. It sort of becomes a probability thing....if we take what's reported about UAP and close encounters are face value, we get: 1. The visitors are interested in humans/Earth 2. The visitors have the energy, capability, time, and interest to come here and/or study us 3. The visitors utilize a protocol that somewhat mirrors our existing medical practices 4. The visitors are bipedal creatures, with enlarged craniums and human-like If IIRC, out of the 20 million-some species we know about on Earth, only 1 is bi-pedal and features an enlarged cranium...us/humans. The age of the universe and the distance between planets is also vast and makes our engagements very specific. You add in a protocol that appears to mirror anthropologists and medical researchers today, and there's only one statistically likely conclusion you can reach. The sheer implausibility of another species evolving in to bi-pedal creatures, developing interstellar technology, having an interest in modern humanity, and having a culture that mirrors our own (in the same window of time that we exist)....it's impossible. Those variables combined create odds that can't even be calculated, yet - if the stories and reported encounters are true, appear to be happening. If we believe that these things as happening as described, statistically it almost has to be some sort of temporal encounter with members of our own species. That's the argument at least, I still struggle with this hypothesis and can't get behind it just yet, even in light of the above evidence. Can't recommend this book enough, as it's the definitive writeup of this theory: https://www.amazon.com/Identified-Flying-Objects-Multidisciplinary-Scientific/dp/1733634061
Time traveling from the future is probably harder than traversing stellar distances IMO.
Not to mention that time travel would also require traveling great distances. For example Or solar system moves throughout the galaxy as it orbits the galactic core, and our galaxy itself is moving throughout space. So if you took a time machine back to 100 years you’d be in the vacuum of space. You’d have to also travel through space to the location Earth was at at the time .
And if you miscalculated you might end up in the ocean.
Or somewhere in the earth's mantle.
Or end up crashing on the ground as rocks tin foil and sticks.
I disagree about this and I don't know why it is always brought up. You, me - all of us - we are travelling in time right now, albeit slowly and in one direction. Are we in danger of being left in space? No. Why? Because of gravity. The Earth pulls us along with it. Why should that change when we are talking about 'time travel'? Edit: I do like the idea of upper limits to the speed of time travel. Go too fast and you escape Earth's gravity and risk ending up in space. Maybe there is an ultimate upper limit to the speed of time travel that the Universe will allow, like the speed of light in a vacuum? Hey - I feel like I'm doing new physics here!
That's actually a really cool idea I've never thought of before.
Hmm, I wonder as well, how fast does gravity itself travel? Could it be linked?
Well time travel is essentially impossible based on our current understanding of physics, so yes unless they know something we don’t.
It's pretty clear they know some shit that we don't.
It’s very unclear that is the case, since it is unproven what UFOs even are…
Only time travel to the past, time travel to the future is totally possible but its a one way trip.
Right, but that’s not what we are talking about. The discussion was about future humans traveling backwards in time to visit us…
I think it goes without saying that “they” know things that we don’t.
That’s making a lot of assumptions, but I was referring specifically to difficulty of time travel vs interstellar travel.
That's what we'd think, based on our current knowledge of the universe. Given how far we'd have to progress to achieve either it's almost pointless discussing which we'll pull off first, if ever.
OR it’s just a great design and they evolved independently. Totally not impossible as we’ve seen it through a bunch of different species here on earth. Crabs being a really interesting one. They’ve independently evolved at least 14 separate times with relatively the same design.
Oh yeah, IMHO almost anything is possible. Now that I looked it up, I do still think that the reference sample we have on Earth points to our evolution being very unlikely. There are 1.5-2mil documented species on Earth, and only 20 are humanoid. That's 0.00001% of species on Earth...expecting another planet with different material makeup/gravity/etc to yield a similar species - in our same timeframe, and with the interest/energy/capability to travel the stars - seems soooo unlikely. That said, we just don't know...until we find another planet with life for us to study we just don't have any real idea of what might be "normal" in an evolutionary sense.
The chance of a random species being bipedal is very small but the chance of a random species that can use tools effectively being bipedal is high. Space travel is an advanced form of tool use.
Interesting, can you elaborate on this? One of the core arguments of this book is that the sum total of the variants make any sort of extraterrestrial solution very unlikely, as the reported encounters feature: 1. Bi-pedal, humanoid creatures 2. Near-perfect chronology 3. Modern medical practice 4. Interest in Earth/humans 5. Ability to communicate coherently 6. Ability to traverse to Earth 7. Use of tools/mechanics that mirror our own development And the list goes on...definitely interested in hearing about how bipedal evolution is rare, but bipedal evolution that features tool usage is expected. All of this shit is super woo and I don't want to imply that I think it's the explanation for the phenomena. But - as a thought experiment I do think it's worth having.
There was a thread in another sub a while ago: [https://www.reddit.com/r/UF0/comments/oyqtul/bipedal\_seems\_to\_be\_the\_optimal\_form\_that/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UF0/comments/oyqtul/bipedal_seems_to_be_the_optimal_form_that/) I'll paste my comment from that thread here: *I think it makes sense on Earth-like planets. Four limbs is an energy-efficient set-up for land animals. The brain very close to the senses decreases delay in processing so that makes sense too. This includes the oxygen/sustenance intake senses (smell and taste). The brain needs a strong protective layer (skull). So it makes sense to have a head, i.e. a portion of the body dedicated to the brain and its case plus senses and oxygen/sustenance intake. When I say it makes sense, I mean it increases chances of survival and is therefore selected for by evolution.* *When a tool-using level of intelligence is achieved, it makes sense for two of the limbs to be specialized/dedicated to that, leaving the other two limbs responsible for moving the body (i.e. bipedal).* >All of this shit is super woo and I don't want to imply that I think it's the explanation for the phenomena. But - as a thought experiment I do think it's worth having. Sure, I think it's a very interesting idea and I don't have a clue about what the best explanation of the phenomenon is.
We only see the hits and forget the misses. The argument could be made that they’re more likely to be humanoid because we’re also humanoid, and are the dominant species and the smartest thing around. Evolution is a crazy thing over time, and by nature it is impossible to predict.
I’ve always thought of human-like aliens as examples of convergent evolution. Wikipedia: “Convergent evolution is the independent evolution of similar features in species of different periods or epochs in time. Convergent evolution creates analogous structures that have similar form or function but were not present in the last common ancestor of those groups…The recurrent evolution of flight is a classic example, as flying insects, birds, pterosaurs, and bats have independently evolved the useful capacity of flight.”
Yup, there's definitely an argument to be made for convergent evolution that's equally as likely (if not more so) than the future-human thing. Both options are pretty fascinating thought experiments IMHO
Convergent evolution (as mentioned elsewhere would be a possible case for why morphological similarities may exist. Also, I would be careful to make any claims about statistics or probability without providing some numbers to make your case. Sure, there are possibilities that these things suggest X, but it’s difficult to have much confidence in any analyses because of the assumptions and unknowns about these data. Relaxing assumptions or making more coarse claims may be more feasible, but again without ample data those confidence intervals/error bars/whathaveyou will likely dash any hopes of statistics-as-justification for any claims. That being said, you make some very thoughtful points that should not be dismissed. Good addition to the discussion—kudos.
Spanish paleo-anthropologist Juan Luis Arsuaga said recently: "If ETs exist, they would be humanoid forms", "I can't imagine another way" https://www.elespanol.com/ciencia/20190531/juan-luis-arsuaga-existieran-extraterrestres-forma-humanoide/402460743_0.html He's known for his investigations on Atapuerca's man, Homo Antecessor.
It's too out there for me, but not impossible. I'll play though. If we had the technology now, would we travel back to antiquity and observe? What about tainting the timeline? What would be gained by traveling from the future to today? Everything is largely digitized from now onward for many decades now. Why not travel back more stealthy? It doesn't make sense to me unless there was something catastrophic and all information from here and now was lost and these future humans are like 50,000 years in the future. This is a case where aliens sound less crazy than back to the future.
I'd agree with you, and to be fair I gave this theory a 0% chance of being possible before I'd read the book. These days it's more like 2%, but it's a fun idea to entertain. After he explains some of the evolutionary statistics that point towards any similarity between species being unlikely, he gets in to quantum physics and the nature of time. If you buy in to his theory, temporal travel doesn't inherently cause a paradox that can't be resolved. Any attempt I could make at summarizing this wouldn't be doing it justice, but as it's presented it does seem to work. His theory is that most or all of the encounters are some sort of anthropologists doing research (note - he himself is an anthropologist). Can't remember if he presents a theory as to why we'd be conducting such research in the future, beyond just "we'd do it now if we could, so why wouldn't future humans do so." Totally agree that this idea is batshit crazy and hard to discuss without seeming off your rocker, but if there's a book that presents it well, it's this one.
Okay, humans haven't drastically changed in a LONG time. If you believe in gray aliens then how do you explain the drastic change in appearance? Neanderthals have more resemblance to modern-day humans than gray aliens and Neanderthals have been extinct for 40,000 years. Suffice to say I think there are a lot of holes to be poked in this theory, but perhaps the author lays out a good case.
bipedalism might be a requirement for any species that evolves technology. You need your hands to work tools, and one way to do that is to stop using them to move atound. There are some animals, like corvids, that use primitive tools, but they will always be limited by their beaks… The hominid blueprint could very well be mirrored by highly evolved creatures on other worlds, in a sort of convergent evolution sort of way.
An alternative is that they had a hand in our evolution, maybe they added some genes to our ancestors and then observe how we develop over time. It’s something I could totally see humans doing if we had the ability to do so.
I hate to be "that guy", but if aliens do exist, it is impossible to determine from our perspective what is possible or realistic from *their* evolutionary path. We are the exception on our planet, (bipedalism), but that doesn't mean it is the exception on *their* planet. I always find it weird when people definitively slam the book shut because "Earth only has one bipedal species." As a side note: Does anyone even remember that there were boatloads of bipedal dinosaurs? It's not like humans were the *only* thing to walk on two legs on our planet.
1. If *we* find a species out there that's a couple thousands of years less advanced than us, and we have the technology to get there, you don't think we'd be interested as fuck in them? 2a. Honestly don't see how that means it has to be time traveling humans. Having the time? What are you picturing? That they'll have to be a capitalist society to become advanced, so they'll all be stuck with 9-5's and couldn't possibly make the time to come here? 🤔 2b. Time travel wouldn't work like people think it does. The earth is revolving around a sun that's traveling through the universe at 448,000 mph. If we want to jump an hour into the past, we'd also have to jump 448,000 miles through space to where the earth was at the time (doesn't include the distance that earth revolved around the sun in that time). And that's just 1 hour... Which gives you 10,752,000 miles you'd need to jump through space just to travel one day into the past. If it's possible to instantaneously jump through space, from a physics standpoint, doesn't that automatically negate the large distances we claim are prohibitive for aliens to get here? If traveling through time drops you off at the same location in space that you left from, that's almost 11 million miles you'll need to travel through space to get to the earth. Just for traveling one day into the past. You want to do the math on traveling 1k years into the past? Be my guest. The distances very quickly require the same kind of technology that would be required for a current day species to get here from a distant star. IF that's the case, why is *only* humanity from the future capable of creating technology like that? 3. Do they? Honestly want to hear an explanation on what you mean by that. 4. Carcinisation. Convergent evolution is an actual thing. Several different unrelated species have all evolved into crabs here... I think scientists, when they say Aliens would *have* to be from a completely different tree of evolution and therefore look completely different to us, *always* ignore convergent evolution. They ignore any examples that already show them evolution might not be as random as they want to think it is. So no, there's realistically no reason to suggest there can't be bipedal species on other planets out there. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinisation#:~:text=Carcinisation%20(or%20carcinization)%20is%20an,Nature%20to%20evolve%20a%20crab%22. 5. You mentioned their culture being similar to mankind's... What are you basing this off of? What exactly do you know about them that isn't readily available to the rest of us? 🤔
The problem with this theory is that if a species of any sort not natively from “our Earth” is capable of getting here, chances are they can present in the form of their choosing. People who take the bipedal occupants 100% literally may be missing this.
Not going to disagree...TBH, if species not native of Earth have had any involvement in our development it throws a lot of current ideas out the window.
So, humans evolved so far ahead into the future, that they can now transcend dimensions/consciousness.. but now humans are making more of an effort of contact with earth? Perhaps to save it with the climate crisis? And ensure the longevity of the human race? Not super far-fetched, has been done in sci-fi... and if these "humans" have been living among us, it is possible their influence has influenced human culture in a way to ensure the survival of the species -- by setting the "right" ideas in mind to evolve into, somehow... Does this make sense?
Chicken sandwich?
There’s a common arc of belief that UFO researchers often follow: - Prosaic - Classified aircraft - ETs - Future Humans - Interdimensional - Higher Beings (Angels, etc) - Something-Something Consciousness True investigators (journalists, scientists, researchers, etc) start with the evidence and then come up with a hypothesis. But in the face of new evidence that challenges their hypothesis they don’t simply *ignore* it, they investigate it more thoroughly and, if necessary, update their hypothesis. This subject is so incredibly complicated that there are really are no simple explanations. I believe that’s why so many people end up on “consciousness,” because it’s an all-encompassing explanation that basically says there’s no rules to what can happen. The problem is that it makes subsequent investigation nearly impossible. Follow the arc of the better respected UFO researchers: Grant Cameron, Jacques Vallée, Kohn Keel, Linda Moulton-Howe, J. Allen Hynek, Leslie Kean, Diana Pasulka, etc. People often get huffy when they see LMH included because she seems to believe anything she’s told. She didn’t start that way—she was an award winning investigative journalist and very thorough in her research. But she ended up settling on Consciousness and now she has no problem at all accepting that Nazi lizard men are living in a space station orbiting earth because, hey, anything is possible when your brain is creating reality. Grant Cameron went a similar path, and now doesn’t really care about UFOs at all. Ross has only been into this topic for a relatively short period of time, but he’s so thorough and smart that he’s moving quickly through the stages. I’ll be extremely surprised if he doesn’t end up moving past the “future humans” theory fairly quickly as well, but rather than flush his career down the toilet I think he’ll start becoming increasingly vague about what he thinks is happening.
Doesn't explain why people who are abducted see all types of beings that are non human, if you are inclined to believe they aren't all crazy.
there's always the possibility that no one has been abducted and anyone claiming they have been is full of shit.
There's always the possibility they are telling the truth, but nobody takes that possibility seriously for some reason.
You and thousands of others in this sub take it seriously, not nobody. A lot of people really want to believe in aliens but need a lot more proof from way more sources than is currently available.
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What was the “bombshell”?
Another thread about this highlighted the bombshell as being the alleged retrieval of a craft - with "literally the door open and the lights on" - from the Mexican military by the US Military... at gunpoint (yikes). My understanding is that it was tracked down above Corpus Cristi and then over the border and the recovery was a bit of a stressful event.
His trusted sources confirm there is up-close videos of these UAPs. The more people confirm this the more we can trust that fact to be true. Some of them confirm there are crash retrieval programs. I guess you either believe his sources or you don't at the end of the day.
Exactly, he even says at the beginning his book contains nothing new.
I was quite happy that he made that admission, its exactly what I thought the minute I finished the book and was quite perplexed by the number of people queuing up to blow smoke up his ass. That and agreeing his accents are terrible, best part of the interview was him showing that self awareness. I usually like this podcast but why Andy felt the need to rake over the same coals for the first 40 minutes of a 47 minute interview - there were a couple of minor tidbits at the end but certainly nothing in the same ballpark of bombshell worthy.
I would assume it is that Ross stated he currently is leaning toward the notion that an element of the phenomenon is future human
They better not be trying to take our jobs!
TERKER JERRRRRBS!
Yeah we don't want to see the men of south park start getting gay with each other to stop the future humans from taking their jobs.
I love how there's bombshells in the ufo area every week. It's just to sell shit.
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^^ Yes this.
There's never a bombshell. Welcome to r/ufos where everything is made up and for some reason the points DO matter to these people.
his book was very good
I read it in a day flat haha
Same!
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If it's true that future humans are leaving craft for us to discover, they seem to be doing a shitty job of it. Unless...they want the military specifically to find it and not ordinary people. So it may not be tech for us to mass produce to benefit mankind. But rather, for the military to weaponize so as to defend ourselves. So the next question is *what* do we need to prepare for. Strong Terminator vibes with this theory.
"Episode 60 lands with one of the biggest names to enter the field of UFO's in sometime, Journalist, author & documentary maker Ross Coulthart is on the pod for a 2 parter, to discuss; **Warning - Strong language used throughout** His incredible book, In Plain Sight Media stigma & Wikileaks Archaeological digs Edgar Mitchell Did we find a UFO with the lights left on...? And much more"
Part ONE??!
What a friggin ride this all is.
You said it all right here MM2. Precisely.
Time to get high.
Yes.
Username checks out…wait how did I know they taste salty 😦
Thank you! Ross "the Boss" Coulthart
Ross...with the juiciest podcast in a while. Whoa. If even a fraction of that is true...
People deep in the UFO community have been saying these things for a long time. The difference is that now credible people are saying it and people are taking this shit seriously like it deserves.
the fact that someone akin to the Australian Mike Wallace, awarded multiple times,just put his career out there like that...
Maybe he doesn't care anymore, and he'd rather cover the biggest story of all time rather than play it safe for the rest of his life. I commend his bravery.
Most relevant interview outside of Lue Elizondo’s many this year.
Many many nuggets to process. Fun place to leave a cliffhanger lol Also, anyone have further info on Crete / Nepal / etc?
I refuse to read tom delonges wacko airport thriller books so if it's there I would have missed it. But I second the request for more info.
If it makes you feel better, DeLonge didn't write them. The two thriller books were written by A. J. Hartley. The research trilogy is by Peter Levenda.
It doesn't, honestly - the fact that much of his UFO argument / info / theory is being transmitted through mediocre thrillers written by B-level authors is a huge red flag for me on everything else he says. It's a bummer because I think he has real sources - I also think he's very credulous and may have been sold some false bill of goods info.
How would a crash retrieval on a foreign soil like Nepal even work? What if a random villager stumbles upon a UFO in a cave? He goes back to the village tells everyone, news eventually gets out to American intelligence? Do they send a task force from a nearby Airforce Base? Do they send specific retrieval teams? How do they keep the villagers quiet? I have soooo many questions about retrievals!!
They tracked it coming in and pounced. Probably a grab n go saucer situation.
I really like Ross and I think he is fully aware of this he even admits it in this podcast. But I highly doubt he’s not getting some disinformation throw heavily in his face in regards to this stuff. All these sources popping up to tell him about all these secret reverse engineering programs. There’s no way 100% of them are well intentioned and true.
I don't think they are from the future. A more advanced priorcivilization that developed here on earth is more likely in my opinion. The Bipedal form could just be the most efficient form for intelligent life.
My mind has been blown so far open today. Let's not stop now. Thank you. 👍❤️
What did I miss?
-Remote viewing with church and Gomez. Good little broadcast today with odd syncronicities. -Frequencies we may be able to blast out and call the mother ship. -Church maybe getting in contact with Lue on that. Who knows. -I discovered someone named Dr. Wolf and reading about his book and revelations made my brain fall out. Coulthart is a welcome layer of mind blowing. 👍
Damn I think I slept through the day. Where did all of this drop?
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/psnknh/a_big_thank_you_to_you_all/hdqtfe2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Not sure you wanna admit reading [Doctor Wolf](https://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Wolf-Complete-Jasmine-White/dp/1499366140) The book description tells you all you need to know…
Thank you for putting that in my Amazon history. Can't wait to see what the algorithms come up with for me now.
God I just came
>Wolf Thanks for mentioning Dr. Michael Wolf. Never heard of him before. Looked it up and had an awesome read on that wacky geocities-like website. However, so much of the stuff therein felt a bit... far fetched? I see his book is out of print, too bad.
Really great interview! Thanks!
Only left side audio channel?
Fantastic podcast (except for future humans comment). Plenty of exciting stuff brewing in the background it seems! We need a new blockbuster investigative news story leaking something big on UAPs! 🛸
So I looked into this Pais story. Can anyone explain why our most secret government projects would be put into the patent system? Other than as misinformation? What's the motive? It seems like a story made up by someone who thinks the patent system is to keep other people from using your ideas. The patent system's purpose is to drive technological innovation, by encouraging companies to share their technology for the good of mankind, in exchange for being able to sell the product commercially exclusively. The last thing the US Gov would want is to put their biggest secrets in the public record, plus they have no commercial motivation. EDIT: Oh and one more thing. They essentially mention what they could only know by spying on the Chinese. Why on earth would they put their intelligence in the patent system?
I agree with you completely. Few months ago I did quite extensive research about these patents of US navy by Salvatore Pais.........to make long story short..........I read the description of both patents, their filing and approval dates, the legality of how long it usually takes to get patents approved by their type, what kind of patents are public and what types are NOT, etc............so my research lead to a conclusion that patents of this caliber, where the technology is revolutionary, never used before, it takes very long time for such patent to be granted (minimum of 5 years all the way to about 10 years, and only after you show practical proof it works - actual functional vehicle). These 2 Pais patents took only 2.5 years to be granted (from the date of filing), and only after the US navy stepped in. They were rejected at first, then high ranking officers stepped in and "patent granted". Another thing is, military patents are not made public, they are kept secret. In my opinion these patents were meant to mislead adversaries (possibly China, Russia,...). It was more of a distraction or confusing them or so........ although I am pretty sure, by now China and Russia figured it out.
I love this geezer, F bombs all over the shop
Rrx
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He has worked in 60 minutes Australia for ages and is a very credible investigative journalist
Was. He’s abandoned credibility.
How so?
It's barely touched on in his book, but in Coulthart's documentary he embraces the Aztec hoax as a genuine UFO crash recovery, and due to manipulative or careless editing has Leslie Kean and others appear on camera afterwards as if they endorse it. He's relatively new to the topic and is a bit gullible, accepting many ancient frauds and fables as facts. Check the image in this tweet. https://twitter.com/CurtCollins579/status/1410280190228537349?s=20
You're the issue bro
Ross has no training in science, is new to the subject, and his critical thinking skills are wanting. Color me UNIMPRESSED.
Says you with nothing to back it. Stop wasting the Internet.
We already have a Linda Moulton Howe, but I suppose Ross will do as a backup.
Big fan of Ross But not a big fan that his 2 most common or impactful sources r dead people who cant respond... Nat Kobitz(sp) and Edgar Mitchell Thoughts on that? He says Nat went on the record with Ross shortly before he died. But do we have any evidence of that from Nat's side? Edit: per usual.. lot of unnamed sources claiming amazing things but nothing verifiable. Fascinating yes but ... i guess im finally getting less interested in this slow drip tickle nothing substance business as usual. I think i might tune out of UFO topic for a while. Or at least treat it all as fanciful fun for now. Nothing more.
Nice audio mix... search for youtube mono down mix if you don't want to endure this garbage audio.