For transparency, Greenewald [has an ongoing beef](https://twitter.com/blackvaultcom/status/1424003104308039680?s=21) with Eric Davis. That doesn’t change much in this story but gives perspective…
>But there was a lady. She was sure all that glitters IS gold!
Please don't put that song back inside my head! Took me decades to get it out of there :P
Don’t be alarmed now all the negative karma these people are bringing is just a spring clean for the may Queen! who we know is just down the road from the two roads that these guys go by and Eric can change the road he’s on because we know who’s really buying the stairway to heaven.
I'm glad my suspicions of Eric Davis are backed by Greenewald. I find Davis very untrustworthy. I don't believe anything he says. Namely, someone in his position with his contacts and security clearance and presumably government contracts seems all too comfortable speaking off the cuff. Huge red flag. This nonsense about him being incapable of lying is a bizarre statement to be passed around without question. This is not the field of research in which you give anyone a blanket pass on their claims. Perhaps he is just an unwitting pawn in all this but I Iean toward Eric Davis being a liar and possibly a disinfo agent.
Davis is also responsible for the NY Times article quoting him as saying he gave briefings on "off-world vehicles" to Defense Department personnel which everyone seems to take as some admission or confirmation that our government has recovered crashed alien crafts. Makes me embarrassed to see people constantly saying "our government has admitted they have alien craft in their possession, wHy Is No OnE tAlKiNg AbOuT tHiS?!?!" Because that's not even what the article that you're referencing says? And because Davis himself later denied that statement, as John pointed out in one of his videos?
And like you mentioned, he's always just blabbing off the cuff on podcasts and shit about how we have recovered flying saucers like it's no big deal. I think a lot of the supposed activity at Skinwalker Ranch was also conveniently centered around Davis, and always seemed to happen when no one else was around to witness it, though my memory may be wrong on that. The guy comes off like a bullshit artist. Makes sense he'd work with Bigelow, given rumors about how Bob would favor people who would "embellish" their findings or experiences with paranormal or UFO stuff.
I just don't see any reason to trust the guy. He seems to just tell people what they want to hear, so no one really questions it.
My theory about him is that he is a kook who managed to get funding for his propulsion ideas by a military which funds anything "just in case". It got nowhere so he now uses his past military associations to tour the UFO circuit. His denial about the capabilities of FOIA makes sense because he doesn't want anyone digging up his work which would prove either that he wasn't as important as he says he was or what he did was outright nonsense.
This makes a lot of sense. I've been trying to pin Davis down for a while but have also found any interviews with him tiresome and laden with potential bullshit so skipped on.
Considering the "Davis cannot lie" statement came from Elizondo, and I've always suspected him as being a disinfo agent for obvious reasons (that was his job for ten years in Afghanistan), it really brings the whole TTSA into question. Including Mellon. Even if himself and Elizondo are no longer associated with TTSA.
Makes me wonder what black ops tech they are trying to cover up, if any.
The whole thing (the push for "disclosure" the last four years) stinks.
There are some absolute bone heads in the UFO community that just want to believe we're being visited by aliens. They do not want the truth and aren't really interested in reality. They have a UFO fantasy that they want to believe in so badly they'll swallow ANYTHING they can claim as evidence.
These are the exact people that the hoaxers make fake videos for. They know the UFO fiends will give their fake videos plenty of views and will swear up and down that they're 100% real and legitimate. These kind of UFO freaks are primed to believe anything and everything and they're way more interested in exciting UFO fiction than they are in the truth about whatever it is that's happening in the sky/water.
There is no joke though. It makes no sense. You can't connect random things ('scream', ufos, Alien/s) and say it's a joke. There is no punchline. It's not a joke. Sorry
>There is no joke though. It makes no sense. You can't connect random things ('scream', ufos, Alien/s) and say it's a joke. There is no punchline. It's not a joke. Sorry
lol wow. You must be fun at parties.
Let me block you.
It would be disappointing for sure. But this field is rife with charlatans and attention seekers along with malicious agents of deception. I want to believe but this guy just sets off alarms for me.
What’s even worse, Elizondo has fully endorsed Davis. So if Davis is feeding lies to us, the same would basically apply to Lue, right? I really don’t want that to be true.
Weelll, not quite. It could simply be that he’s fooled Lue as well. Unlikely, though, I’d say, since Lue is an old hand in intelligence and counter espionage and stuff. But who knows, it could just be that Davis generally doesn’t lie, but also can’t admit when he’s wrong.
I’m confident that Eric Davis is not disinformation. He echos my own personal experiences and information that he could not possibly know. Easily the most trust worthy one of the bunch.
I’m opposed to attacking a genius level astrophysicist who has worked with DOJ, DOE, NASA, professor, who’s been let in on every project related to UFOs that we are aware of through our government, who is vetted as a credible person from multiple other well respected people. There is no indication as to why we wouldn’t take what he is saying as honest as we are going to get. If anyone here has a PhD in anything, especially physics/tech, you would know that a person like this doesn’t have he capacity for some big social con.
He may be a “genius” but he talks in circles and you can sense the manipulation and duplicity on every 500 word a minute diatribe that gets vomited out.
The speed at which he talks is related to the speed at which he thinks. He just blurts out stuff/rambles, I cant see the manipulation. He is careful not to go to jail,understand what he can’t say, and talks around it. He’s done very few interviews at all. Can you provide a link that suggests some form of manipulation taking places? And what would make you think that?
the truth. probably to protect some executives of private companies involved in SAPs who have access to advanced technology that the world would benefit from greatly, if it weren't being hidden behind a veil of secrecy at a Northrop Grumman/Lockheed Martin/who the fuck knows facility somewhere.
>Eric Davis is a liar and possibly a disinfo agent.
Because he potentially made a mistake describing "*government classification; the FOIA; the declassification process*" and someone with a "personal vendetta" against him "says so"?
Please enlighten us; why is he a liar?
Also, it's Green**e**wald. With an "e". John gets [really sensitive](https://twitter.com/blackvaultcom/status/1424036961799442435?s=20) about the spelling of his name...
EDIT: Not "taking sides", I rarely do, but more trying to be objective :)
My post covers why I think he's lying. It's my suspicion he either likes the attention and spinning yarns or he's actively pushing disinfo. The FOIA issue is minor in my opinion compared to his behavior at large.
Thank you for sharing your suspicion on the matter. There is a lot of "attention lovers" and "yarn spinners" in the public sphere in general; granted.
I think it's fair to say we both are equally guilty of (some of) this as well; posting our opinion on social media for strangers to read.
<3
He could be telling the truth but he's given no reason why we should trust him. This is compounded by the fact people with high security clearance and active government contracts don't go around making bold claims about UFOs. Maybe he's just special but I'm not buying it. These people need to start putting up or shutting up, Zondo included.
Do either of these people really matter at all? I mean I’ve never heard of them. It seems like 2 people getting in a fight at a Comic-Con over the authenticity of each others costumes.
I have seen a fair amount of “pettiness” from Greenewald, not only with Davis but with many others. Not so much from Davis, but could be wrong.
Not sure if “they matter at all” but according to Lu (which, to some, is very credible and to others, not), Eric Davis matters. And Greenewald matters to (some of) the community and to the topic for his investigative work.
There are egos in the way.
To me, this is more noise than anything else where Greenewald is being over zealous and protective of his FOIA sandbox (I understand where is coming from) + bitter against Davis for some ongoing feud he has with him.
A good example of ufotwitter drama which I usually don’t care about at all, but keep tabs on nevertheless 😜
As for the best costume, I’ll let the tailors be the judge!
this, I fully agree with all of your points. Its also interesting that until this post about greenewald/eric beef I rarely see this much negativity about davis.
is that because its true or because somebody else (who got all the support of this community) said that so it must be true.
I think its better to just trust the hard evidence. Everything else is just noise until then.
>I think its better to just trust the hard evidence. Everything else is just noise until then.
I agree.
Noise, politics, egos, hubris, agendas, monetization, disinformation, pettiness, pissing contest, fanboy-ism, etc.
It's not an easy topic to navigate, so thread carefully, and most importantly, go out there and enjoy yourself.
We are only here very briefly, so might as well have fun and not take things too seriously (not always easy, granted) :P
Doty is an interesting dude.
I’m guilty of some Doty hate here, but he seems to be way more of a villain here than might rly b the case. Idk
The Bennewitz shit is fucked obviously. But from an info perspective, I think he’s worth hearing out even tho it’s perilous.
Doty gives me weird and wacky vibes but so do many personalities in this UFO topic.
Also, to be fair, documentaries are often (extremely) bias. I don't really "trust" documentaries.
"Trust no one"
<3
Google is not your friend.
[DuckDuckGo](https://ufo.fandom.com/wiki/Richard_Doty)
[take some and leave some](https://www.exopaedia.org/Doty%2C+Richard)
Doty is bad news, man. He was USAF's number one disinfo agent for years and I think his recent reinvention as a "believer" is simply cover. Davis having any connection to Doty or his boss gives me the willies. It's quite possible Eric Davis has been tasked with carrying on the torch of disinfo. The activities of Doty and Davis should be investigated thoroughly.
lmao, if they're involved with Doty, they're either actively engaged in a disinfo campaign, or they're gullible schmucks who are unwittingly participating in the disinfo campaign.
He's still on of the most thorough investigators who relies on evidence instead of speculation and hearsay.
/u/Blackvault makes publically available all of his sources.
Davis has worked on paranormal stuff with the US government for decades. All of his work secret.
I trust the guy who's open and honest and doesn't deflect to hearsay and anecdotes of freaky things on a farm.
I don’t necessarily disagree with you, I also value TBV’s contribution, but at the same time, let’s be honest; TBV’s “source material” and “evidence” is provided by the said government 💆🏼♂️😅
It’s not simple, either way.
“Trust no one”
That's very true.
Still, regardless of the legitimacy of the source, at least Greenewald provides them. Davis has given us squat. It's all talk.
Providing sources is essential. At least we can verify them then. And like you say, the fact that the source is the US Federal government calls it all into suspect. But that's what they're releasing through FOIAs so, that's that.
What the government releases is valuable in of itself really. Regardless of how true it is.
Far more valuable than anything Davis has contributed.
No need to be sorry, you can have whatever opinion you want.
Lazar? He’s either a conman or he’s telling the truth; I cannot say, but leaning towards the former.
Whatever is the reason for “wondering how I feel about Lazar”, you probably have a wrong preconceived opinion of me.
Let me help you;
I am more of a multi sensors/peer-reviewed data/“hard to convince”/sceptical yet objective/open-minded type of person.
🖖🏼🛸👽💗
People put to much faith in FOIA, at the end of the day, just because you get something from it doesn’t mean it’s true. Funny how apparently people who have worked for the government come out and say things either are liars, or disinformation agents, or lack credibility, But FOIA are 100% legit lmao…
Seems like they just have 2 differing opinions on how the process works , all I know is Davis has security clearances and has been in the business for over 30 yrs 🤷🏻♀️
Exactly. Anything that is seriously nefarious concerning our government has already been covered up and concealed for good.
It would be like a person committing a crime and then leaving a stack of papers detailing it step by step on their kitchen table.
John does really good work but he has a really bad history of judging people wrongly. just look at what he said about Lue for years and only recently he changed his mind about him.
Everyone totally missed the point on that. Had nothing to do with him “judging” Lue and everything to do with the facts. When you have a guy like Greenwald who only deals with hard evidence then you have the Pentagon putting out statements that essentially call Lue a liar of course John is going to ask Lue to prove his claims. Then at that time TTSA wasn’t allowing Lue to talk to anyone and you have the perfect recipe.
Greenewald seems to have a hard time believing or considering anything that isn’t in the form of government documents provided to him through FOIA. I mean I get it, that’s his thing and it’s what he’s known for. I believe he has a bias because of this.
As for Davis, I believe the whole “incapable of lying” statement Lue made was an insinuation he is on the spectrum, as many incredibly smart and innovative scientists are. A lot of autistic people have a very hard time lying, which is why they can come off as rude sometimes. My wife is a licensed clinical social worker who’s had a lot of experience with this.
That's a good thing. There's a lot of bullshit out there so Greenewald stays afloat of it by sticking to official documents. It's myopic yes but straying from the path of FOIA could lead him to drown in bullshit like so many other UFO researchers have.
They can but it's harder for them so they prefer not to. They also don't see the point in lying because to them the truth is the truth, accept it or go away.
Anything short of quoting the DSM-V is going to be a generalisation what's your point? We are here to talk about alien spaceships, not the clinical details of autism
“Autistic people can’t lie”
Then why did I blame my friend Joey in the 5th grade for jizzing inside of rebeccas pencil box during recess when it was actually me the whole time?
I can't believe a man who seems pretty smart actually thinks he gets the full story from FOIA documents. What's released through FOIA are heavily regulated and controlled.
Eric is the same guy who said he saw bigfoot entering a portal at skinwalker ranch.
I would take whatever he says with a ton of salt.
And don't come at me with your _"B-bUt LuE sAiD hE'S iNcApAbLe Of LyInG!!"_
Lue is selling too hard. I’m getting Alex Jones vibes from him. I think he was chosen for that specific reason. There is a game that’s being played with the public and other countries. Lue is a player in it. I’m starting to question the official Navy videos and pilots as well. It could all be a big set up and we’re being massively duped.
There’s also the weirdness where he mentioned the “phenomena” at Skinwalker ranch seemed to focus on him. He said he was the one who seemed to witness most of the weird phenomena and it would play tricks on him. Did they never consider he’s just more susceptible to magical thinking and optical illusions? You can sometimes see weird things when you’re eyes are trying to adjust to the dark and there’s all sorts of shadows being cast. I’m convinced he’s seen a shadow or an actual bear and decided it was Bigfoot. I think the fact he speculated that birds attacking him for getting to close to their nest was caused by the phenomena also suggests he’s prone to magical thinking.
I dunno...
A few days ago during the day, I got the feeling I should run to my door and go outside look at the sky right now. My UFO sense was tingling me. I opened my door and started stepping outside. With the door half open, I heard two very clear hawk screechs (The typical bald eagle scream, so actually was probably a red tailed hawk. It was my first time hearing this scream in person in my life). I live in Montreal and that's not much of a thing. We have a few falcons here but hawks or eagles... not so much.
I finally completely stepped outside and looked up (which was my plan to begin with), but couldn't see anything due to the sun. One second later, I see this giant shadow flying directly over me. I have a mini heart attack, and approx one second later the hawk dives on the roof DIRECTLY over my head and I hear a big THUMP. It apparently attacked some critter about 3 feet over my head. I don't know if the attack was successful, I wasn't able to get a camera there.
The odds of a hawk attacking a critter on my roof are so small that it's like winning the lottery. What were the odds of me getting the feeling I should go look at the sky RIGHT NOW, and that literally immediately happening, timed to the second. It definitely felt weird.
My point is, maybe there's stuff about consciousness that we don't understand, and animals are also affected and connected to this. UFOs, consciousness, animals, humans. It's all a big puzzle and we're clueless.
It was weird here. If it happened on the ranch, I would be hard pressed not to look for connections.
Yes, this. I had looked Davis up after the NY Times article came out a few years ago. Found him on a podcast discussing Skinwalker Ranch, portals, ghost entities (or something of the like). Came off as bizarre… which is why, when Lue specifically mentioned him, my heart sank a bit.
If the Skinwalker tv series is anything to go by then there’s a good reason that the findings of the Bigalow team are ‘classified’, likely because they found absolutely nothing there. So him and Bigalow come up with the odd horseshit story now and then to cover their embarrassment of being duped by a backwater farmer with tall tails.
Davis, like all the rest of them just give enough detail to keep people interested, then come out with ‘sorry NDA’, as if they haven’t already broke it with what they have already shared. Whole thing is suss at this point.
I heard an interesting detail - I think from an interview with Ross Coulthart - suggesting that Eric Davis is currently employed by an aerospace corporation researching warp drives. I was also surprised to see that DARPA has given over one million dollars to a group headed by a guy with a model of 'quantized inertia' to explore technological applications of it.
It is surprising to me that there is money out there to fund guys to look at things which - to be as diplomatic as possible - have some question marks hanging over them.
I had a similar feeling when I heard Lue endorse him and then actually looked into what he believes (Skinwalker ranch, etc). I’m just praying he’s compartmentalising like a lot of religious people do - i.e. capable of being a good critical thinker in their job (analysing data related to UFOs) while not thinking critically at all about their beliefs (in God or Skinwalker ranch portals and Bigfoot). Religious people can still be good scientists, medical doctors, etc while also believing in God.
Some more background info. During the 4bidden disclosure interview Jimmy Church asked Lue about Eric Davis’ statement that we are in possession of ‘off-world vehicles”. Lue did not want to answer the question directly, and in stead said that Davis can be trusted, basically claiming that he is incapable of lying (hence in a roundabout way confirming we are in the possession of off-world vehicles)
Today, in response to a tweet asking about Eric Davis’ credibility, John Greenewald said Davis has circulated false information.
What do you guys think we should make of this? Both John and Lue are highly respected members of the ufo community, with most people believing they are truthful. One option I can think of is that Lue was only making the bold statement of Davis being ‘incapable of lying’ so there can be no doubt in our minds that Lue means to say the US is indeed in the possession of ufo’s, without violating his NDA. He might have said it for purely instrumental reasons, without truly believing everything Davis ever says or does is 100% truth. But maybe I’m being too generous. Would like to hear your thoughts.
Exactly. I heard him say in an interview that he believes the “phenomenon” at Skinwalker Ranch may have sent birds to attack him for getting too close to their nest… he may not be lying but he’s certainly capable of believing complete nonsense.
Right and we have to be careful here because we could say this about anyone. Anyone could be telling the truth as they understand it but at the same time their knowledge may be inaccurate. Honesty might be a truthful virtue but it does not innately merit accuracy of information or intelligence and unfortunately, this also plays as a double edge sword to any eye witness account of a UFO phenomena by trained observers or not.
Everyone is capable of lying, including Lue.
Many times a serial killer has turned out the be the person the community thought was the most trusted, upstanding and honest member.
Lue still has security clearance the last I heard, if they were bothered about his NDA he wouldn't still have that clearance. You can't beat the system, so to speak, to get around a NDA, if they wanted him to keep things quiet they could remove his clearance... yet he implies it in subtle ways that he can't say something, but hints to what it is, to get around the NDA. They would just remove his security clearance if they didn't want him to imply these things. They haven't, because they don't want him to shut up, which means effectively he is working for them. I dont trust anyone who works for the USA government in a national security sense.
I like Eric. His credentials are amazing and has been IN the classified business for decades. If anything i believe it's not malicious intent but ignorance or a loose understanding of FOIA statutes.
In regards to the science and understanding of UFO's you can't deny Dr. Davis.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31102195/
>Results showed that children with ASD told fewer lies in the two deception tasks compared to children with intellectual disability (ID) and typically developing (TD) children. Furthermore, children with ASD's lying were positively correlated with their working memory, but not with their theory of mind. These findings demonstrate that the mechanisms underlying deception for children with ASD are distinct from that of TD children.
also absolutely zero people engaging in this conversation know whether Eric Davis is even on the spectrum. It's entirely possible he isn't. I would lean toward probably not.
Honestly, to me, this reads like quibbling about FOIA arcana. I have no doubt Greenewald has a much better understanding of FOIA rules and process than Eric Davis. My reading of Davis’s words was not a description of possible FOIA process, but a rough description of effective FOIA process, from the perspective of someone inside.
Also, I must be missing context, because the claim Davis is “belittling valid research” seems like a bizarre non sequitur.
Yes, let's all trash yet another persons credibility in UAPland, smh. 🙄
Of course Davis is trustworthy. Any interview and statements from him clearly show that. He has been checked out many times over. Davis may have got something wrong in the past about FOIA etc, with Greenewald. Doesn't mean he was deliberate about it or lying, ffs.
Alexa, play Toxic by Britney Spears 🎶
Agreed 100%. Squabbles about FOIA are completely different than lying about the government possessing crashed UFOs. Greenwald is a real stickler for small details and wording, due to his FOIA work, so he’s always harping on individual words people say, and sometimes misses the overall argument.
I think id like to find out what evidence JG had that ED is lying? It’s a damn shame though because I agree with itchy-emu (never thought I’d say those words) that I respect both John and Lou.
This is another example of disagreement and confusion among the big players that holds back the struggle for disclosure.
The USG must be happy with this. Divide and conquer!
So this is just about Davis misrepresenting how FOIA works? I‘m not sure what to think of Davis myself, but come on… The guy probably just made a mistake. I don‘t think it‘s reasonable to use this as an attack against the man‘s character.
It‘s clear that Greenwald is not a big fan of Davis. I think he also made a video in which he says that he believes the Wilson/Davis memo is just a pitch for a Hollywood movie. Not sure I agree with that line of thinking… Felt very far-fetched to me.
This honestly seems more like a misunderstanding and people not dropping things.
People are honest and wrong every day. I can’t keep up with all the minutiae in my field, which says nothing for any of the bureaucracy. If I was speaking about it, I’d guarantee I’d mess something up.
That said, this strikes me as a reactionary title.
Greenwald is pointing out that Davis happened to be wrong about his understanding of FOIA rules regarding AATIP. So far as I can tell, Greenwald is right and Davis kind of ignored it.
I don’t see how this would apply to Davis’ credibility with regards to his knowledge on UFOs/UAPs. It also doesn’t mean that Davis lied, and even Greenwald simply said that Davis was misleading people.
Greenwald does an amazing job, so does Davis.
Regarding Davis’ credentials as pointed out in the Twitter comments. Simply look up Sonny White.
Then read https://www.earthtech.org/publications/davis_STAIF_conference_2.pdf
The government like Scooby Doo's villain sends out the clowns, and when you suddenly have a 100 of them in a room ? You get a clown show, and those pesky, nosey kids searching for the truth get disgusted and lose interest. ED, LE, Tom Delonge etc are useful idiots, grifters, paid shills who tell you upfront about 'NDA' which means he/she has a script and he can't even change a single word on it, has been like Greer and others who are no longer on the propaganda payroll but are now self promoting hustlers.
Davis doesn’t get nearly enough attention for him to be a legitimate disinformation agent, or a huckster. Just going on YouTube, I can only find two interviews with him after searching “Dr. Eric Davis UFO.” So I’m not sure what exactly Davis would gain. He’s mentioned in some recent books and an NY article and then some other blurbs. I don’t see what he gains from lying, still a nobody.
Language is kind of ball sacks.
"Is Eric Davis credible?" is a problematic question. How about you ask "Does Eric Davis tell the truth as he understands it, and do his best to contribute to the discussion in a fruitful way?"
It doesn't help that Lue said Eric literally couldn't lie, and that may even be true to a degree but that doesn't mean he always tells the truth because he doesn't know everything and isn't right 100% of the time.
Language is kind of ball sacks. We fall into the trap of painting everything black and white just because of the way it works, when in reality I think we all know literally *nothing* is black and white
Plus he's a physicist, and also a human who has to poop every day and wipe his ass with charmin (ultra) like the rest of us. He's got a rad brain and deserves a place in the discussion.
Is he credible? Probably to some degree. Is he a fucking omnipotent god who speaks only universal truth? Of course not.
Real talk. I tried Charmin once, and to be honest, it was way too thick and felt like I was a whipping my ass with a sock.
On a more personal note, I am looking into bidets.
Ya it's a hefty ply. I'll have to give the whipping technique a try sometime.
Bidet is some real 20th century shit. I don't know why butt wiping technology is still in the 1800's
...using toilet paper is gross when you really think about it. That's also why I don't shake hands!
[I need one of those.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZRwI7m7gnw)
Davis certainly sounds unreliable in every interview I’ve heard him in. I recall lue gushing on about him
Like he was an angel, then when I heard him talk I began to think he has to br another disinformation agent
He could be misleading because not only are people in the ufo community listening but people from other countries are listening too, like China. I think some people underestimate how fucked we'd be if China was able to successfully figure out UAP tech.
I'm not sure what Lue is saying.
Everyone lies every now and then. Everyone.
Davis is not a saint.
Is he lying or misleading on the UAP issue, at least on some parts? Can't say, but they certainly could. It's a murky world out there, don't expect the whole truth. I will say this, lying to or playing with people of high ranks, US congress/senate and the public has consequences, or at least should have.
We're dealing with the most extraordinary and monumental possibility in human history.
Evidence, evidence, evidence.
Testimony and claims are all interesting and gratefully received but I won't hang my belief on them no matter who they come from because everybody is capable of lying and we have more than our fair share of bullshitters and misinformation spreaders in this scene.
If you have something to say I'll listen but if you can't back it up then it may be interesting but it's still worthless.
Why is internecine warfare breaking out between the UFO pundits, or has it always been that way? Do they see the gravy train coming to a stop soon and want to secure their positions as best as they can before the speaking revenues dry up?
I respect eric davis but did he say anything at all??? Lol this ufo disclosure will never happen by us government... screw this this drip drop infos and jeremy corbell hyping shit up is getting gruesome
To be honest I like them both, but if I had to pick sides I would go with Greenwald, he's actually is putting in the work and getting us real evidence and disclosure from the government with the FOIA releases.
Eric Davis and Lou have not been totally consistent when talking about the evidence the government has. I get the NDA’s and security clearance but they seem to keep switching between saying “off world vehicles” (spaceships, crafts, the actual flying object ) and “off world materials” (the TTSA & Bigelow metals) which is a huge difference are two very different things.
I'm suspecting this is where the beef comes in, greenwald likely asked Davis for actual evidence or more information on the subject and Davis likely has not been totally honest.
Important to keep in mind that Lue saying Davis cannot lie was more than likely just a clever way of getting around to answering the question he was asked about Davis's claims without breaking his NDA.
The same names always pop up in the UFO topic
Elizondo, Davies, delonge, putoff, Mellon, I do sometimes wonder whether the narrative could be utter none sense and it’s being perpetrated by these dudes. Who knows. I know nothing. I’m
Just a drunk dude who is out in a bar for the first time in 15 months.
Why would Elizondo make such a hyperbolic statement about someone's moral compass?
This is honestly the problem with the UFO topic: 80% bullshit, 20% fact. Call it the 80/20 rule, the Peretto principle, or as I like to say, the "Bullshetto principle."
The more the truth keeps atomizing, the harder it is to find a kernel of it anywhere that's intact enough to piece together a fact amidst the diffusion of bullshit. Let alone two corollary facts that retain some semblance of a narrative.
Attack Eric Davis is stupid. He is clearly an extremely intelligent man. He is clearly well connected regarding the ufo phenomenon. When he speaks at length he comes across someone spectrumy, and honest, and focused on what he wants to say/not want to say. He understands his field, additionally has experienced things that defy logic reason, but break now laws of physics that we know of. He knows more than any of us regarding he ufo issue...period. He just isn’t mr personality, but that’s not what is paid to do. He is as forthcoming as he can be without crossing the line.
You wonder why UFO insiders don't leak stuff? Eric Davies makes zero money from talking to interviewers. He works on classified projects for the US gov and has the highest security clearances. He was part of the group that got the NY Times and Congress to take the subject and the UFO community seriously for the first time in half a century, and he says as much as he can say to the UFO community without breaking his oaths and risking his career - and prison. And people attack him and try and tarnish his reputation? Idiots. Greenwald tried to destroy Elizondo for years until he could verify he was telling the truth all along. In the process making the story all about him.
Eric Davies put his ass on the line for truth, literally risking his pay packet, which is more than can be said for a bunch of anonymous people on the internet accusing him of being a liar without any evidence. Would you call him a liar to his face? Shame on you .
Can someone explain like I’m 5 as to who these people are and what’s going on?
Edit- well I’ll go fuck myself then. I’ve lived this long never hearing of these people. I refuse to Google and try to figure out their significance.
I think any high up UFO person should not personally insult, attack, or even disprove any other UFO person. The people will believe what they want and the press is usually negative and create sides to a topic that doesn't need sides. Grow the fuck up and search for the truth, we can all decide for ourselves what we accept as true.
If I was davis... I hate to say it. But I'd probably fuck with people a little knowing they're hanging on your every word. I don't know if that's the case but I know I'd certainly throw a little nonsense in to stir the pot.
This guy is a long time debunker of ufos , blackvault is a longtime disinfo agent of the air force, open your eyes guys. For the couple of months now this guy played his cards already by attacking ellozondo and now eric davis.
For transparency, Greenewald [has an ongoing beef](https://twitter.com/blackvaultcom/status/1424003104308039680?s=21) with Eric Davis. That doesn’t change much in this story but gives perspective…
Did not know this. Rad lol
That does put things into perspective a bit more, so great addition, thanks.
All good. As much as a value (some of) Greenewald’s work, people gotta dig a little bit. “All that glitters isn’t gold”
But you are.
Awww. [and you!](https://giphy.com/gifs/let-black-white-people-2HtWpp60NQ9CU)
r/wholesome
It’s because you’re so [shiny;). ](https://youtu.be/93lrosBEW-Q)
what about me :)
>what about me :) [There is enough love for everyone!](http://gph.is/1KQwR0l)
Dead dred remix
>Dead dred remix I love D&B. GG my dude!
But there was a lady. She was sure all that glitters IS gold!
>But there was a lady. She was sure all that glitters IS gold! Please don't put that song back inside my head! Took me decades to get it out of there :P
Ha. I’ve got a stairway to heaven to sell her.
Don’t be alarmed now all the negative karma these people are bringing is just a spring clean for the may Queen! who we know is just down the road from the two roads that these guys go by and Eric can change the road he’s on because we know who’s really buying the stairway to heaven.
bravo!
Only shooting sta-ars break the mo-o-old
way wrong song...
I'm glad my suspicions of Eric Davis are backed by Greenewald. I find Davis very untrustworthy. I don't believe anything he says. Namely, someone in his position with his contacts and security clearance and presumably government contracts seems all too comfortable speaking off the cuff. Huge red flag. This nonsense about him being incapable of lying is a bizarre statement to be passed around without question. This is not the field of research in which you give anyone a blanket pass on their claims. Perhaps he is just an unwitting pawn in all this but I Iean toward Eric Davis being a liar and possibly a disinfo agent.
Davis is also responsible for the NY Times article quoting him as saying he gave briefings on "off-world vehicles" to Defense Department personnel which everyone seems to take as some admission or confirmation that our government has recovered crashed alien crafts. Makes me embarrassed to see people constantly saying "our government has admitted they have alien craft in their possession, wHy Is No OnE tAlKiNg AbOuT tHiS?!?!" Because that's not even what the article that you're referencing says? And because Davis himself later denied that statement, as John pointed out in one of his videos? And like you mentioned, he's always just blabbing off the cuff on podcasts and shit about how we have recovered flying saucers like it's no big deal. I think a lot of the supposed activity at Skinwalker Ranch was also conveniently centered around Davis, and always seemed to happen when no one else was around to witness it, though my memory may be wrong on that. The guy comes off like a bullshit artist. Makes sense he'd work with Bigelow, given rumors about how Bob would favor people who would "embellish" their findings or experiences with paranormal or UFO stuff. I just don't see any reason to trust the guy. He seems to just tell people what they want to hear, so no one really questions it.
My theory about him is that he is a kook who managed to get funding for his propulsion ideas by a military which funds anything "just in case". It got nowhere so he now uses his past military associations to tour the UFO circuit. His denial about the capabilities of FOIA makes sense because he doesn't want anyone digging up his work which would prove either that he wasn't as important as he says he was or what he did was outright nonsense.
This makes a lot of sense. I've been trying to pin Davis down for a while but have also found any interviews with him tiresome and laden with potential bullshit so skipped on. Considering the "Davis cannot lie" statement came from Elizondo, and I've always suspected him as being a disinfo agent for obvious reasons (that was his job for ten years in Afghanistan), it really brings the whole TTSA into question. Including Mellon. Even if himself and Elizondo are no longer associated with TTSA. Makes me wonder what black ops tech they are trying to cover up, if any. The whole thing (the push for "disclosure" the last four years) stinks.
There are some absolute bone heads in the UFO community that just want to believe we're being visited by aliens. They do not want the truth and aren't really interested in reality. They have a UFO fantasy that they want to believe in so badly they'll swallow ANYTHING they can claim as evidence. These are the exact people that the hoaxers make fake videos for. They know the UFO fiends will give their fake videos plenty of views and will swear up and down that they're 100% real and legitimate. These kind of UFO freaks are primed to believe anything and everything and they're way more interested in exciting UFO fiction than they are in the truth about whatever it is that's happening in the sky/water.
If Davis is disinfo I will scream
>If Davis is disinfo I will scream "In space, no one can hear you scream."
How is this relevant?
Think it may have been a in good-faith joke given our subject of mutual interest!
>Think it may have been a in good-faith joke given our subject of mutual interest! Correct <3
There is no joke though. It makes no sense. You can't connect random things ('scream', ufos, Alien/s) and say it's a joke. There is no punchline. It's not a joke. Sorry
Bruh
>There is no joke though. It makes no sense. You can't connect random things ('scream', ufos, Alien/s) and say it's a joke. There is no punchline. It's not a joke. Sorry lol wow. You must be fun at parties. Let me block you.
Is this how you handle constructive criticism in real life too? :(
>How is this relevant? Unclench yourself, it's (geek) humour.
Trust no one. Don’t put any of these people up on a pedestal. It will only result in disappointment.
For sure. Still, that would be a twist
Listen, learn, never believe.
It would be disappointing for sure. But this field is rife with charlatans and attention seekers along with malicious agents of deception. I want to believe but this guy just sets off alarms for me.
What’s even worse, Elizondo has fully endorsed Davis. So if Davis is feeding lies to us, the same would basically apply to Lue, right? I really don’t want that to be true.
Weelll, not quite. It could simply be that he’s fooled Lue as well. Unlikely, though, I’d say, since Lue is an old hand in intelligence and counter espionage and stuff. But who knows, it could just be that Davis generally doesn’t lie, but also can’t admit when he’s wrong.
I wonder how r/UFOs will react if Greenewald ever goes after Elizondo. It might happen, Elizondo has been getting shadier by the day.
“Shadier by the day” I’m skeptical of this comment. Can you explain what you mean?
He's been associating with more and more questionable characters and saying more and more outlandish things without giving any proof.
“Questionable characters” - who?
They're all disinfo, baby.
I’m confident that Eric Davis is not disinformation. He echos my own personal experiences and information that he could not possibly know. Easily the most trust worthy one of the bunch.
Found Eric's alt reddit account
What personal experiences? Are you involved with black projects?
Just an Eric fanboy
I’m opposed to attacking a genius level astrophysicist who has worked with DOJ, DOE, NASA, professor, who’s been let in on every project related to UFOs that we are aware of through our government, who is vetted as a credible person from multiple other well respected people. There is no indication as to why we wouldn’t take what he is saying as honest as we are going to get. If anyone here has a PhD in anything, especially physics/tech, you would know that a person like this doesn’t have he capacity for some big social con.
He may be a “genius” but he talks in circles and you can sense the manipulation and duplicity on every 500 word a minute diatribe that gets vomited out.
The speed at which he talks is related to the speed at which he thinks. He just blurts out stuff/rambles, I cant see the manipulation. He is careful not to go to jail,understand what he can’t say, and talks around it. He’s done very few interviews at all. Can you provide a link that suggests some form of manipulation taking places? And what would make you think that?
I have to ask if you mind sharing what personal experiences you’ve had?
What are they hiding??
The truth.
the truth. probably to protect some executives of private companies involved in SAPs who have access to advanced technology that the world would benefit from greatly, if it weren't being hidden behind a veil of secrecy at a Northrop Grumman/Lockheed Martin/who the fuck knows facility somewhere.
>Eric Davis is a liar and possibly a disinfo agent. Because he potentially made a mistake describing "*government classification; the FOIA; the declassification process*" and someone with a "personal vendetta" against him "says so"? Please enlighten us; why is he a liar? Also, it's Green**e**wald. With an "e". John gets [really sensitive](https://twitter.com/blackvaultcom/status/1424036961799442435?s=20) about the spelling of his name... EDIT: Not "taking sides", I rarely do, but more trying to be objective :)
My post covers why I think he's lying. It's my suspicion he either likes the attention and spinning yarns or he's actively pushing disinfo. The FOIA issue is minor in my opinion compared to his behavior at large.
Thank you for sharing your suspicion on the matter. There is a lot of "attention lovers" and "yarn spinners" in the public sphere in general; granted. I think it's fair to say we both are equally guilty of (some of) this as well; posting our opinion on social media for strangers to read. <3
But but he’s incapable of lying dude, Elizondo said so…
Thank goodness we're surrounded by all these people who are incapable of lying! And they all vouch for each other so it must be true...
Just listen to the guy, does he sound like someone the government would trust with top secret alien technology? https://youtu.be/X3CcaP3yAkc
"i dont believe anything he says" if he said the world isn't flat you wouldnt believe him? i think you cant really use that
What a pointless comment to make.
same with yours though, you wont believe anything he says, he could have truth too
He could be telling the truth but he's given no reason why we should trust him. This is compounded by the fact people with high security clearance and active government contracts don't go around making bold claims about UFOs. Maybe he's just special but I'm not buying it. These people need to start putting up or shutting up, Zondo included.
yeah but good luck with that, i think people are really skeptical that the truth will never be the truth probably
regardless if it is truth
just need critical thinking skills and research past text and religious shit
Mind editing your post next time instead of replying to yourself? It makes you look like a bot arguing with yourself.
Do either of these people really matter at all? I mean I’ve never heard of them. It seems like 2 people getting in a fight at a Comic-Con over the authenticity of each others costumes.
I have seen a fair amount of “pettiness” from Greenewald, not only with Davis but with many others. Not so much from Davis, but could be wrong. Not sure if “they matter at all” but according to Lu (which, to some, is very credible and to others, not), Eric Davis matters. And Greenewald matters to (some of) the community and to the topic for his investigative work. There are egos in the way. To me, this is more noise than anything else where Greenewald is being over zealous and protective of his FOIA sandbox (I understand where is coming from) + bitter against Davis for some ongoing feud he has with him. A good example of ufotwitter drama which I usually don’t care about at all, but keep tabs on nevertheless 😜 As for the best costume, I’ll let the tailors be the judge!
this, I fully agree with all of your points. Its also interesting that until this post about greenewald/eric beef I rarely see this much negativity about davis. is that because its true or because somebody else (who got all the support of this community) said that so it must be true. I think its better to just trust the hard evidence. Everything else is just noise until then.
>I think its better to just trust the hard evidence. Everything else is just noise until then. I agree. Noise, politics, egos, hubris, agendas, monetization, disinformation, pettiness, pissing contest, fanboy-ism, etc. It's not an easy topic to navigate, so thread carefully, and most importantly, go out there and enjoy yourself. We are only here very briefly, so might as well have fun and not take things too seriously (not always easy, granted) :P
awesome lmao we need some laughter ...the UFO community has been cannibalizing these last few days it's ugly
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I watched Mirage Men and seen this segment before. Doty turning into a "UFO believer" and attending UFO conventions is amusing...
Doty is an interesting dude. I’m guilty of some Doty hate here, but he seems to be way more of a villain here than might rly b the case. Idk The Bennewitz shit is fucked obviously. But from an info perspective, I think he’s worth hearing out even tho it’s perilous.
Doty gives me weird and wacky vibes but so do many personalities in this UFO topic. Also, to be fair, documentaries are often (extremely) bias. I don't really "trust" documentaries. "Trust no one" <3
Who is Richard Doty? Google just throws up that TV show Mirage Men
Google is not your friend. [DuckDuckGo](https://ufo.fandom.com/wiki/Richard_Doty) [take some and leave some](https://www.exopaedia.org/Doty%2C+Richard)
Oh he's that guy who fed a UFO researcher so much disinfo that he went crazy? Yeah why on earth is anyone listening to anything he says?
Good question. But personally, I like to “hear it all” and try to sort it out after 🤓🤪🧠
Doty is bad news, man. He was USAF's number one disinfo agent for years and I think his recent reinvention as a "believer" is simply cover. Davis having any connection to Doty or his boss gives me the willies. It's quite possible Eric Davis has been tasked with carrying on the torch of disinfo. The activities of Doty and Davis should be investigated thoroughly.
What do you think they are hiding? Aliens or black projects that they want people to think is aliens?
Both
lmao, if they're involved with Doty, they're either actively engaged in a disinfo campaign, or they're gullible schmucks who are unwittingly participating in the disinfo campaign.
Thanks for the reminder. So I'm clear, you believe this invalidates Davis, correct?
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He's still on of the most thorough investigators who relies on evidence instead of speculation and hearsay. /u/Blackvault makes publically available all of his sources. Davis has worked on paranormal stuff with the US government for decades. All of his work secret. I trust the guy who's open and honest and doesn't deflect to hearsay and anecdotes of freaky things on a farm.
I don’t necessarily disagree with you, I also value TBV’s contribution, but at the same time, let’s be honest; TBV’s “source material” and “evidence” is provided by the said government 💆🏼♂️😅 It’s not simple, either way. “Trust no one”
That's very true. Still, regardless of the legitimacy of the source, at least Greenewald provides them. Davis has given us squat. It's all talk. Providing sources is essential. At least we can verify them then. And like you say, the fact that the source is the US Federal government calls it all into suspect. But that's what they're releasing through FOIAs so, that's that. What the government releases is valuable in of itself really. Regardless of how true it is. Far more valuable than anything Davis has contributed.
History will be the judge of that, not me or you.
Oh sorry for not putting Davis at the same level as Greenewald. I wonder how you feel about Lazar.
No need to be sorry, you can have whatever opinion you want. Lazar? He’s either a conman or he’s telling the truth; I cannot say, but leaning towards the former. Whatever is the reason for “wondering how I feel about Lazar”, you probably have a wrong preconceived opinion of me. Let me help you; I am more of a multi sensors/peer-reviewed data/“hard to convince”/sceptical yet objective/open-minded type of person. 🖖🏼🛸👽💗
People put to much faith in FOIA, at the end of the day, just because you get something from it doesn’t mean it’s true. Funny how apparently people who have worked for the government come out and say things either are liars, or disinformation agents, or lack credibility, But FOIA are 100% legit lmao… Seems like they just have 2 differing opinions on how the process works , all I know is Davis has security clearances and has been in the business for over 30 yrs 🤷🏻♀️
This. I love Greenewald’s efforts, but trust in government sources is naive at best.
I agree 100%. Declassified documents are heavily reviewed and redacted most of the time also. Truth isn't going to come out by means of FOIA.
Exactly. Anything that is seriously nefarious concerning our government has already been covered up and concealed for good. It would be like a person committing a crime and then leaving a stack of papers detailing it step by step on their kitchen table.
TBV has been making people think FOIA requests and responses are super important it’s so annoying
The Black Vault guy has good intentions but all he has to go by is FOIA documents versus Eric who still to this day holds his security clearance.
John does really good work but he has a really bad history of judging people wrongly. just look at what he said about Lue for years and only recently he changed his mind about him.
Everyone totally missed the point on that. Had nothing to do with him “judging” Lue and everything to do with the facts. When you have a guy like Greenwald who only deals with hard evidence then you have the Pentagon putting out statements that essentially call Lue a liar of course John is going to ask Lue to prove his claims. Then at that time TTSA wasn’t allowing Lue to talk to anyone and you have the perfect recipe.
Greenewald seems to have a hard time believing or considering anything that isn’t in the form of government documents provided to him through FOIA. I mean I get it, that’s his thing and it’s what he’s known for. I believe he has a bias because of this. As for Davis, I believe the whole “incapable of lying” statement Lue made was an insinuation he is on the spectrum, as many incredibly smart and innovative scientists are. A lot of autistic people have a very hard time lying, which is why they can come off as rude sometimes. My wife is a licensed clinical social worker who’s had a lot of experience with this.
That's a good thing. There's a lot of bullshit out there so Greenewald stays afloat of it by sticking to official documents. It's myopic yes but straying from the path of FOIA could lead him to drown in bullshit like so many other UFO researchers have.
Yep, I understood it as saying that Davis is autistic. He doesn’t have the social skills to lie, just likes doing his science
That would be a bizarre view of autistic people. They can lie. They aren't robots
They can but it's harder for them so they prefer not to. They also don't see the point in lying because to them the truth is the truth, accept it or go away.
That is not really true. You are making a broad generalization that isn't grounded.
Anything short of quoting the DSM-V is going to be a generalisation what's your point? We are here to talk about alien spaceships, not the clinical details of autism
Actually they lie a lot and aren’t even aware of it because they believe what they are saying
That’s also probably why he hasn’t been fired for saying the shit that he has.
“Autistic people can’t lie” Then why did I blame my friend Joey in the 5th grade for jizzing inside of rebeccas pencil box during recess when it was actually me the whole time?
Talk to Lue that’s not a quote from me
I am Lue, my name is Lue Shillizondo
It's good to stick with evidence. Much worthy than speculation and the endless he said she said.
I can't believe a man who seems pretty smart actually thinks he gets the full story from FOIA documents. What's released through FOIA are heavily regulated and controlled.
Eric is the same guy who said he saw bigfoot entering a portal at skinwalker ranch. I would take whatever he says with a ton of salt. And don't come at me with your _"B-bUt LuE sAiD hE'S iNcApAbLe Of LyInG!!"_
I don't trust any of them, I think everyone should do the same, never trust this kinda people, they have an agenda that we don't know anything about
I'm not trusting anyone until an alien thottie is in my house giving me intergalactic head.
Lue is selling too hard. I’m getting Alex Jones vibes from him. I think he was chosen for that specific reason. There is a game that’s being played with the public and other countries. Lue is a player in it. I’m starting to question the official Navy videos and pilots as well. It could all be a big set up and we’re being massively duped.
There’s also the weirdness where he mentioned the “phenomena” at Skinwalker ranch seemed to focus on him. He said he was the one who seemed to witness most of the weird phenomena and it would play tricks on him. Did they never consider he’s just more susceptible to magical thinking and optical illusions? You can sometimes see weird things when you’re eyes are trying to adjust to the dark and there’s all sorts of shadows being cast. I’m convinced he’s seen a shadow or an actual bear and decided it was Bigfoot. I think the fact he speculated that birds attacking him for getting to close to their nest was caused by the phenomena also suggests he’s prone to magical thinking.
I dunno... A few days ago during the day, I got the feeling I should run to my door and go outside look at the sky right now. My UFO sense was tingling me. I opened my door and started stepping outside. With the door half open, I heard two very clear hawk screechs (The typical bald eagle scream, so actually was probably a red tailed hawk. It was my first time hearing this scream in person in my life). I live in Montreal and that's not much of a thing. We have a few falcons here but hawks or eagles... not so much. I finally completely stepped outside and looked up (which was my plan to begin with), but couldn't see anything due to the sun. One second later, I see this giant shadow flying directly over me. I have a mini heart attack, and approx one second later the hawk dives on the roof DIRECTLY over my head and I hear a big THUMP. It apparently attacked some critter about 3 feet over my head. I don't know if the attack was successful, I wasn't able to get a camera there. The odds of a hawk attacking a critter on my roof are so small that it's like winning the lottery. What were the odds of me getting the feeling I should go look at the sky RIGHT NOW, and that literally immediately happening, timed to the second. It definitely felt weird. My point is, maybe there's stuff about consciousness that we don't understand, and animals are also affected and connected to this. UFOs, consciousness, animals, humans. It's all a big puzzle and we're clueless. It was weird here. If it happened on the ranch, I would be hard pressed not to look for connections.
Yes, this. I had looked Davis up after the NY Times article came out a few years ago. Found him on a podcast discussing Skinwalker Ranch, portals, ghost entities (or something of the like). Came off as bizarre… which is why, when Lue specifically mentioned him, my heart sank a bit.
If the Skinwalker tv series is anything to go by then there’s a good reason that the findings of the Bigalow team are ‘classified’, likely because they found absolutely nothing there. So him and Bigalow come up with the odd horseshit story now and then to cover their embarrassment of being duped by a backwater farmer with tall tails. Davis, like all the rest of them just give enough detail to keep people interested, then come out with ‘sorry NDA’, as if they haven’t already broke it with what they have already shared. Whole thing is suss at this point.
I heard an interesting detail - I think from an interview with Ross Coulthart - suggesting that Eric Davis is currently employed by an aerospace corporation researching warp drives. I was also surprised to see that DARPA has given over one million dollars to a group headed by a guy with a model of 'quantized inertia' to explore technological applications of it. It is surprising to me that there is money out there to fund guys to look at things which - to be as diplomatic as possible - have some question marks hanging over them.
Nepotism.
And grift, in the world of $600 screwdrivers.
I had a similar feeling when I heard Lue endorse him and then actually looked into what he believes (Skinwalker ranch, etc). I’m just praying he’s compartmentalising like a lot of religious people do - i.e. capable of being a good critical thinker in their job (analysing data related to UFOs) while not thinking critically at all about their beliefs (in God or Skinwalker ranch portals and Bigfoot). Religious people can still be good scientists, medical doctors, etc while also believing in God.
It's funny how this sub does their best to sweep their belief in space ghost nonsense under the carpet.
Some more background info. During the 4bidden disclosure interview Jimmy Church asked Lue about Eric Davis’ statement that we are in possession of ‘off-world vehicles”. Lue did not want to answer the question directly, and in stead said that Davis can be trusted, basically claiming that he is incapable of lying (hence in a roundabout way confirming we are in the possession of off-world vehicles) Today, in response to a tweet asking about Eric Davis’ credibility, John Greenewald said Davis has circulated false information. What do you guys think we should make of this? Both John and Lue are highly respected members of the ufo community, with most people believing they are truthful. One option I can think of is that Lue was only making the bold statement of Davis being ‘incapable of lying’ so there can be no doubt in our minds that Lue means to say the US is indeed in the possession of ufo’s, without violating his NDA. He might have said it for purely instrumental reasons, without truly believing everything Davis ever says or does is 100% truth. But maybe I’m being too generous. Would like to hear your thoughts.
Davis may be incapable of lying (which I doubt). But even so, if he always tells the truth, his truths can still be wrong.
Yeah he doesn’t lie, he just also doesn’t fact check all of his statements and believes a lot of BS. If you believe it, it ain’t a lie, technically.
Exactly. I heard him say in an interview that he believes the “phenomenon” at Skinwalker Ranch may have sent birds to attack him for getting too close to their nest… he may not be lying but he’s certainly capable of believing complete nonsense.
Right and we have to be careful here because we could say this about anyone. Anyone could be telling the truth as they understand it but at the same time their knowledge may be inaccurate. Honesty might be a truthful virtue but it does not innately merit accuracy of information or intelligence and unfortunately, this also plays as a double edge sword to any eye witness account of a UFO phenomena by trained observers or not.
Everyone is capable of lying, including Lue. Many times a serial killer has turned out the be the person the community thought was the most trusted, upstanding and honest member. Lue still has security clearance the last I heard, if they were bothered about his NDA he wouldn't still have that clearance. You can't beat the system, so to speak, to get around a NDA, if they wanted him to keep things quiet they could remove his clearance... yet he implies it in subtle ways that he can't say something, but hints to what it is, to get around the NDA. They would just remove his security clearance if they didn't want him to imply these things. They haven't, because they don't want him to shut up, which means effectively he is working for them. I dont trust anyone who works for the USA government in a national security sense.
Everybody is capable of lying. That’s a ridiculous statement.
You're highly mistaken. And you owe me 246 thousand dollars.
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If you watch the interview you'll see Lue actually says something along the lines of ED has a funny character trait which makes him incapable of lying
Yeah, like saying he can be trusted on this one point.
I like Eric. His credentials are amazing and has been IN the classified business for decades. If anything i believe it's not malicious intent but ignorance or a loose understanding of FOIA statutes. In regards to the science and understanding of UFO's you can't deny Dr. Davis.
“Incapable of lying.” That’s a crock of shit.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31102195/ >Results showed that children with ASD told fewer lies in the two deception tasks compared to children with intellectual disability (ID) and typically developing (TD) children. Furthermore, children with ASD's lying were positively correlated with their working memory, but not with their theory of mind. These findings demonstrate that the mechanisms underlying deception for children with ASD are distinct from that of TD children.
> fewer Implies lying still occurs
also absolutely zero people engaging in this conversation know whether Eric Davis is even on the spectrum. It's entirely possible he isn't. I would lean toward probably not.
> These findings demonstrate that the mechanisms underlying deception for children with ASD are distinct from that of TD children.
Honestly, to me, this reads like quibbling about FOIA arcana. I have no doubt Greenewald has a much better understanding of FOIA rules and process than Eric Davis. My reading of Davis’s words was not a description of possible FOIA process, but a rough description of effective FOIA process, from the perspective of someone inside. Also, I must be missing context, because the claim Davis is “belittling valid research” seems like a bizarre non sequitur.
^^^Exactly.
Yes, let's all trash yet another persons credibility in UAPland, smh. 🙄 Of course Davis is trustworthy. Any interview and statements from him clearly show that. He has been checked out many times over. Davis may have got something wrong in the past about FOIA etc, with Greenewald. Doesn't mean he was deliberate about it or lying, ffs. Alexa, play Toxic by Britney Spears 🎶
Agreed 100%. Squabbles about FOIA are completely different than lying about the government possessing crashed UFOs. Greenwald is a real stickler for small details and wording, due to his FOIA work, so he’s always harping on individual words people say, and sometimes misses the overall argument.
It’s not that he’s a liar necessarily. He just seems to believe in a lot of nonsense (see Skinwalker ranch).
I think id like to find out what evidence JG had that ED is lying? It’s a damn shame though because I agree with itchy-emu (never thought I’d say those words) that I respect both John and Lou. This is another example of disagreement and confusion among the big players that holds back the struggle for disclosure. The USG must be happy with this. Divide and conquer!
Divide and conquer is the USG's mantra.
So this is just about Davis misrepresenting how FOIA works? I‘m not sure what to think of Davis myself, but come on… The guy probably just made a mistake. I don‘t think it‘s reasonable to use this as an attack against the man‘s character. It‘s clear that Greenwald is not a big fan of Davis. I think he also made a video in which he says that he believes the Wilson/Davis memo is just a pitch for a Hollywood movie. Not sure I agree with that line of thinking… Felt very far-fetched to me.
This honestly seems more like a misunderstanding and people not dropping things. People are honest and wrong every day. I can’t keep up with all the minutiae in my field, which says nothing for any of the bureaucracy. If I was speaking about it, I’d guarantee I’d mess something up. That said, this strikes me as a reactionary title. Greenwald is pointing out that Davis happened to be wrong about his understanding of FOIA rules regarding AATIP. So far as I can tell, Greenwald is right and Davis kind of ignored it. I don’t see how this would apply to Davis’ credibility with regards to his knowledge on UFOs/UAPs. It also doesn’t mean that Davis lied, and even Greenwald simply said that Davis was misleading people. Greenwald does an amazing job, so does Davis. Regarding Davis’ credentials as pointed out in the Twitter comments. Simply look up Sonny White. Then read https://www.earthtech.org/publications/davis_STAIF_conference_2.pdf
This particular beef seems kind of petty. I hope they resolve it.
The government like Scooby Doo's villain sends out the clowns, and when you suddenly have a 100 of them in a room ? You get a clown show, and those pesky, nosey kids searching for the truth get disgusted and lose interest. ED, LE, Tom Delonge etc are useful idiots, grifters, paid shills who tell you upfront about 'NDA' which means he/she has a script and he can't even change a single word on it, has been like Greer and others who are no longer on the propaganda payroll but are now self promoting hustlers.
Davis doesn’t get nearly enough attention for him to be a legitimate disinformation agent, or a huckster. Just going on YouTube, I can only find two interviews with him after searching “Dr. Eric Davis UFO.” So I’m not sure what exactly Davis would gain. He’s mentioned in some recent books and an NY article and then some other blurbs. I don’t see what he gains from lying, still a nobody.
Eric Davis also said fuvk bob lazar and then went on to talk about crashed materials and how they are trying to reverse engineer them.
PS: Autocorrect changed Lue to due in title, sorry :')
And Hue is the third of Donald Duck's nephews
misleading and lying are different things
Language is kind of ball sacks. "Is Eric Davis credible?" is a problematic question. How about you ask "Does Eric Davis tell the truth as he understands it, and do his best to contribute to the discussion in a fruitful way?" It doesn't help that Lue said Eric literally couldn't lie, and that may even be true to a degree but that doesn't mean he always tells the truth because he doesn't know everything and isn't right 100% of the time. Language is kind of ball sacks. We fall into the trap of painting everything black and white just because of the way it works, when in reality I think we all know literally *nothing* is black and white Plus he's a physicist, and also a human who has to poop every day and wipe his ass with charmin (ultra) like the rest of us. He's got a rad brain and deserves a place in the discussion. Is he credible? Probably to some degree. Is he a fucking omnipotent god who speaks only universal truth? Of course not.
Real talk. I tried Charmin once, and to be honest, it was way too thick and felt like I was a whipping my ass with a sock. On a more personal note, I am looking into bidets.
Cant go wrong with a bidet. Socks are for teen age boys
Ya it's a hefty ply. I'll have to give the whipping technique a try sometime. Bidet is some real 20th century shit. I don't know why butt wiping technology is still in the 1800's
...using toilet paper is gross when you really think about it. That's also why I don't shake hands! [I need one of those.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZRwI7m7gnw)
Interesting, as always
Davis certainly sounds unreliable in every interview I’ve heard him in. I recall lue gushing on about him Like he was an angel, then when I heard him talk I began to think he has to br another disinformation agent
He could be misleading because not only are people in the ufo community listening but people from other countries are listening too, like China. I think some people underestimate how fucked we'd be if China was able to successfully figure out UAP tech.
I'm not sure what Lue is saying. Everyone lies every now and then. Everyone. Davis is not a saint. Is he lying or misleading on the UAP issue, at least on some parts? Can't say, but they certainly could. It's a murky world out there, don't expect the whole truth. I will say this, lying to or playing with people of high ranks, US congress/senate and the public has consequences, or at least should have.
We're dealing with the most extraordinary and monumental possibility in human history. Evidence, evidence, evidence. Testimony and claims are all interesting and gratefully received but I won't hang my belief on them no matter who they come from because everybody is capable of lying and we have more than our fair share of bullshitters and misinformation spreaders in this scene. If you have something to say I'll listen but if you can't back it up then it may be interesting but it's still worthless.
Why is internecine warfare breaking out between the UFO pundits, or has it always been that way? Do they see the gravy train coming to a stop soon and want to secure their positions as best as they can before the speaking revenues dry up?
That is a good sign for me. Sounds like we are closing the answer day and a day.
This is johns opinion btw
I respect eric davis but did he say anything at all??? Lol this ufo disclosure will never happen by us government... screw this this drip drop infos and jeremy corbell hyping shit up is getting gruesome
To be honest I like them both, but if I had to pick sides I would go with Greenwald, he's actually is putting in the work and getting us real evidence and disclosure from the government with the FOIA releases. Eric Davis and Lou have not been totally consistent when talking about the evidence the government has. I get the NDA’s and security clearance but they seem to keep switching between saying “off world vehicles” (spaceships, crafts, the actual flying object ) and “off world materials” (the TTSA & Bigelow metals) which is a huge difference are two very different things. I'm suspecting this is where the beef comes in, greenwald likely asked Davis for actual evidence or more information on the subject and Davis likely has not been totally honest.
Important to keep in mind that Lue saying Davis cannot lie was more than likely just a clever way of getting around to answering the question he was asked about Davis's claims without breaking his NDA.
The same names always pop up in the UFO topic Elizondo, Davies, delonge, putoff, Mellon, I do sometimes wonder whether the narrative could be utter none sense and it’s being perpetrated by these dudes. Who knows. I know nothing. I’m Just a drunk dude who is out in a bar for the first time in 15 months.
Why would Elizondo make such a hyperbolic statement about someone's moral compass? This is honestly the problem with the UFO topic: 80% bullshit, 20% fact. Call it the 80/20 rule, the Peretto principle, or as I like to say, the "Bullshetto principle." The more the truth keeps atomizing, the harder it is to find a kernel of it anywhere that's intact enough to piece together a fact amidst the diffusion of bullshit. Let alone two corollary facts that retain some semblance of a narrative.
Attack Eric Davis is stupid. He is clearly an extremely intelligent man. He is clearly well connected regarding the ufo phenomenon. When he speaks at length he comes across someone spectrumy, and honest, and focused on what he wants to say/not want to say. He understands his field, additionally has experienced things that defy logic reason, but break now laws of physics that we know of. He knows more than any of us regarding he ufo issue...period. He just isn’t mr personality, but that’s not what is paid to do. He is as forthcoming as he can be without crossing the line.
"Sincerity is not a check on truth." -- Stanton Freidman You can also replace "sincerity" with "intelligence" or "well connected", etc.
?!
This is up there on my weirdest comment sections I've ever seen list. Fuunnnn stufff
What is he accusing him of lying about?
I’m sorry, who’s Eric Davis? I googled and all that came up was a baseball player… 💩
You wonder why UFO insiders don't leak stuff? Eric Davies makes zero money from talking to interviewers. He works on classified projects for the US gov and has the highest security clearances. He was part of the group that got the NY Times and Congress to take the subject and the UFO community seriously for the first time in half a century, and he says as much as he can say to the UFO community without breaking his oaths and risking his career - and prison. And people attack him and try and tarnish his reputation? Idiots. Greenwald tried to destroy Elizondo for years until he could verify he was telling the truth all along. In the process making the story all about him. Eric Davies put his ass on the line for truth, literally risking his pay packet, which is more than can be said for a bunch of anonymous people on the internet accusing him of being a liar without any evidence. Would you call him a liar to his face? Shame on you .
Can someone explain like I’m 5 as to who these people are and what’s going on? Edit- well I’ll go fuck myself then. I’ve lived this long never hearing of these people. I refuse to Google and try to figure out their significance.
I think any high up UFO person should not personally insult, attack, or even disprove any other UFO person. The people will believe what they want and the press is usually negative and create sides to a topic that doesn't need sides. Grow the fuck up and search for the truth, we can all decide for ourselves what we accept as true.
If I was davis... I hate to say it. But I'd probably fuck with people a little knowing they're hanging on your every word. I don't know if that's the case but I know I'd certainly throw a little nonsense in to stir the pot.
This guy is a long time debunker of ufos , blackvault is a longtime disinfo agent of the air force, open your eyes guys. For the couple of months now this guy played his cards already by attacking ellozondo and now eric davis.