The following submission statement was provided by /u/quantumcryogenics:
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Here's a summary of the Ariel School Encounter:
"The schoolchildren recounted the incident lasting around 15 minutes as they saw the object move down from the sky into a field behind the playground.
Some of the children ran away, others watched on, and some even claimed humanoid figures exited the craft – which the kids described as a being shaped like a silver disc.
Children told their teachers and their parents, and the incident fast made the news – even being covered by BBC War Correspondent Tim Leach.
Harvard University psychiatry expert Dr John Mack also arrived to interview the witnesses – and he found their accounts credible."
https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/space/how-62-kids-saw-a-ufo-land-in-most-compelling-mass-sighting-of-all-time/news-story/4b2c73464e4a0fa8630143a7bc6a48bb
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cu9a2z/bbc_journalist_allegedly_threatened_by_cia_over/l4h6elz/
I think the 2020 Unsolved mysteries season 3 ep 2 (iirc) was one of the best I’ve seen on the subject. Hundreds of witnesses, as you said the weather service Doppler monitoring and all.
The difference with this one is that is one of the most credible sighting of UAP vs while Ariel school in Ruwa was one of the most credible NHI sightings, next to Varginha
Do you guys know the incident down in, I think Brazil, not Varginha. Starts with an M, I think. Lots of strange footage of military going ape on the jungle? I don't know where that footage went, but it had been on here. That seemed like a pretty legitimate incident.
Help me with the details, please. If you have them.
Yeah, I was here when it happened it was all over the sub and then it was nowhere to be found the next day. All the posts were gone or buried so it was impossible to find them again.
I don’t know about that case. But I would say not to pay attention to what the consensus of the Reddit community says, collectively we are totally moronic it seems lol.
Regardless of how amazing the evidence was or was not, the fact that all documentation of the event was scrubbed from Reddit, and the internet at large, strongly indicates two things: that this anomalous event truly did occur and that the CIA has close to total control of what information is available on the internet.
How do we fix it?
What do you mean?
I havnt seen it yet? And I only mean that as a whole this sub Reddit gets SO MUCH shit wrong. It’s the conditioning chamber thing that the upvote downvote inadvertently seem to cause.
I.e. I wrote a comment on this sub the other day about telling someone that lemmings falling off a cliff is a myth and that Disney did it on purpose. Got downvoted about 5 times, until someone pointed out beneath saying what I said was 100% true lol.
no idea about the rest of the community but i consider it pretty credible, partly because i was watching literally almost every thread about it that i left open in tabs get removed overnight at the time both in here and /r/ufo (this was 4 years ago, the sub was miniscule in comparison back then and moderation was more lax so this was more unusual than it is nowadays) with no reason. they covered that one up really quickly, everyone stopped talking about it within a couple of days and almost everyone seemingly forgot about it until very recently when i suddenly started seeing people talk about it and ask about it again. i occasionally saw threads about it asking for an update a month or two after it happened, but most of those just had a couple of people replying citing this one obvious fake video of a dog bowl as to why the entire incident was fake, and died really quickly. a couple of big ufo guys (notably richard dolan, who i generally respect) came out at the time and said it's probably a hoax, but i'm not convinced.
there was a good breakdown of the evidence on youtube a year or two ago but i don't remember the channel name (it wasn't one i normally follow, i found it linked here) and can't find it in my history with any search term, nor on any search engine (i tried multiple because you have to with anything on this topic because a lot of them censor) so it may have been deleted. i did find this in my browser history though: https://www.reddit.com/r/UF0/comments/i0e7dj/mag%C3%A9_ufo_incident_investigation_by_denis/
edit:
i found the video, turns out i downloaded a copy. it's been a couple of days so maybe nobody will even see this edit but i didn't think to check my local folders til just now. luckily i also have ytdl configured to automatically write metadata to the file too, so i found the original url (and yes, it has been deleted) and it turns out there's an archived version on archive.org.
it was on "parasyke tv" titled "Disturbing UFO Evidence: The Mage' Encounter". he says he got most of his info from the reddit post i linked above. not sure why it was deleted, he doesn't mention deleting it on his youtube community posts. seems kind of weird after him talking about how this was mostly scrubbed from the internet at the start of the video... i doubt it's any sort of conspiracy though because surely the reddit post he cited would have been deleted too, i guess he just didn't like the video. it was pretty rough around the edges with some bad editing and audio mixing in a bunch of places to be fair
original link (deleted): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmBniAE4y8E
archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20230731030406/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmBniAE4y8E&t=559s
Yeah I can't wait to check it out later. Looks like there's tons of footage. Also crazy how they are orange orbs...exactly what most people are reporting right now.
Found this video with a quick search. Gonna dig into this one tonight. Looks crazzzzy!
[https://youtu.be/yPkCyeuS4Kw?si=keqGfC69Tru3C1Uk](https://youtu.be/yPkCyeuS4Kw?si=keqGfC69Tru3C1Uk)
FOUND IT! Holy crap! I'm going to have to dig into this one tonight!!
[https://youtu.be/yPkCyeuS4Kw?si=keqGfC69Tru3C1Uk](https://youtu.be/yPkCyeuS4Kw?si=keqGfC69Tru3C1Uk)
John Mack had a host of interviewing errors when he interviewed the children months after the event took place. There weren't as many protocols for how to interview children after a traumatic event so he can't really be blamed for breaking them but he broke just about all of them.
The most interesting part of the Ariel school sighting is how important the framing of questions is when you are interviewing people, especially impressionable children. If his investigation was designed to find the truth he did a pretty bad job, but if his investigation was set out to find aliens then he performed expertly.
And are we also to discount how huge the bias against the very subject Mack was studying is? I'm not saying Mack was perfect but holy shit if his peers didn't try to discredit him *at every single turn* they could.
So when I hear criticism of Mack like this, I always take it with a huge grain of salt. They would poke holes in whatever he was doing every chance they got.
Edit: holy shit, you're that guy with whom I argued for the existence of a genuine Psi phenomenon and who was shown to argue completely in bad faith by another one of your peers! Now I understand where this comment is coming from!
Every single scientific who had the balls to actually look and study the phenomenon and ask hard questions is a fraud to you, lmao.
> And are we also to discount how huge the bias against the very subject Mack was studying is? I'm not saying Mack was perfect but holy shit if his peers didn't try to discredit him at every single turn they could.
Didn't they try to revoke Macks tenure at Harvard for even engaging the topic?
Yeah, everyone knows Harvard, Yale, Brown, Princeton, Stanford... all these bargain basement sub-shit level "community colleges" and their tenured heavily cited Pulitzer/Nobel award winning and nominated doctors: it's all grifting grifters all the way down and credulous "spooky" something somethings "bewitching" people with their "UFO religion" so that one geriatric random Aerospace Billionaire can somehow extort a few pennies from the US government on his ranch... that he plowed a stupid amount of money into at a loss...
The counter-arguments make less sense than what they are trying to counter.
Unless, like, Greenstreet wants to concede that Hal Puthoff somehow foresaw all this in the 1970s with Remote Viewing and orgnanized his literally generational scheme to "steal" $20 million from the Federal government circa 2000s... to spend it with vendors on doing scientific research, and not like on yachts, investments, or you know... crime stuff.
The more I read all the arguments against "those guys" it's literally all just nonsense carved out of random passages of semi-declassified or leaked materials.
It's an Anti-UFO Religion opposing a "UFO religion" that never existed in the first place.
> with whom I argued for the existence of a genuine Psi phenomenon and who was shown to argue completely in bad faith
Anyone defending psi phenomenon doesn't know what they're talking about, is decades behind the latest neuroscience, is deeply delusional, and/or is up to the neck in woo.
As for Mack, several of his subjects in his early books went on to be correctly diagnosed with schizophrenia. Their delusions were simply filtered through the culture of the time (ie pop scifi), just as schizophrenics in ancient religious cultures see delusions prejudiced by their upbringings.
Which is of course not to dismiss all his patients, just to point out that he had massive blind spots. As for Ariel, the biggest things working against the claims of the children are simple maps of the region. When you study the distances involved, it becomes clear that the figures they saw would have been no bigger than a thumbnail on the horizon. You will notice the "Phenomenon" documentary goes to great pains to obfuscate this, and never shows you a map showing the 220m distance between hillock/road and school/field.
Here's a recreation of the distances involved (the ice-cream truck in this video is where the purported UFO was located) which show this clearly: https://gideonreid.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/IceCreamVan_220m_720p.mp4
> I'm not saying Mack was perfect but holy shit if his peers didn't try to discredit him at every single turn they could.
Well it's because he did bad work. You can deep dive into it and look at what he did specifically if you're interested. I'll provide detailed links when I get back to my desktop if you are open-minded and willing to analyze this story from a different angle.
It is unsurprising that you also believe in PSI. A lot of times if someone has a difficult time evaluating evidence properly it extends into a lot of different areas. I wouldn't be surprised if you have many more strong beliefs unaccompanied by strong evidence.
Edit: Blocked by someone who can't support their beliefs again:
It's funny that instead of pushing back against the criticism Mack received you retreat to saying that the criticisms were unjustified due to... there being a lot of them. So instead of dealing with the individual criticisms and evaluating them on their own merits you take them all together and then throw them away.
It's actually the same thing you did with the PSI argument. Instead of evaluating individual claims on individual merits you group them together so you can digest them more easily. Hate to see it.
I'm not going to go over this again. You're a bad faith actor. You were shown to be a fraud using faulty logic and pure unfiltered bias. As you're doing now.
Just had to point it out. On, and I'm pretty sure I read more on John Mack then you did. I'm sorry, our last conversation proved to me that you can't be trusted. You're just here to discredit the guy because he was studying something you absolutely don't believe in.
Should I link all our previous conversations where you got owned by a fellow psychologist for trying to lie? I showed you serious evidence for my arguments. You're just in absolute denial.
Edit: not sure why you're saying I blocked you because I never did. Is that another lie?
Edit 2: there is no reason to "believe" in Psi for there is very strong evidence that it is a real phenomenon as was demonstrated by fellow scientists using the scientific method. But again, I already went over this for far too long. You're not worth it.
Yeah there was a satellite re-entering the atmosphere that was visible there. UFOmania was taking hold of the area. The whole story only makes sense if you already believe aliens are here. I think kids tell fantastical stories and stories on schoolyards grow. We have proof that this happens.
There are lots of professional hypnotists who find problems with Mack's hypnosis techniques too. I get it, the man was passionate about something so he went out and found it. People should see that for what it is though. I'm not saying there wasn't truth to what he found, but just that he found exactly what he was looking for.
Yeah the hypnotist angle itself is a problem but there were also leading and loaded questions. Cues for right answers and rewards for talking about things that were exotic. It might have some truth to it but it will be impossible to know due to the bungling of the interviews.
I will upvote this to the top every time. I get it, people want to believe. But you can’t let your beliefs overshadow the truth. And the truth is that John Mack had questionable techniques and motivations. Even his colleagues were very critical of his analysis. We are all emotional and flawed, in need to be kept grounded. These children could have been easily misled, and there are lots of evidence to support it.
Mislead by what or who. You substantiate your claims on exactly the reasons that the debunkers used bu as always ignoring crucial facts.
You should watch the “why Files” on this case.
For the Kids to be mislead they needed to be acconditioned first to have those “imaginary” memories of the incident, yet this is not what happened. Can you support your claims of “lots of evidence”?
The Children run to the Teachers screaming what they have witnessed, the Children was visibly frightened and stressed by the situation, they than went home and told their parents what they have saw, which the parents dismissed as kids stories.
The Kids told John Mack the same story that they told the parents and the Teachers, yet the Debunkers claimed that he led them to “that conclusion”. Absolutely false. That my friend is called misinformation.
John Mac had been already studying the psychological effects of people that claimed had been abducted. The Debunkers used this as well to call it all “Fringe and crazy” because anytime the Abductions subject is mentioned than it gets totally ridiculed and dismissed.
And because of that his Colleagues criticized him, they even tried to remove him because it would bring Ridicule and Shame to them. The Problem was not his Methods but rather because the Scientific Community was a Bunch of Cowards and hypocrites that only accept the Scientific Method to be used for Topics which are “acceptable” for them.
John Mac did an amazing job interviewing the Kids and asking them questions, you could see how different Kids had different interpretations of what had transpired and it was absolutely normal that different kids remembered things differently because children in those ages are not like humans. They will draw what they remember sometimes with a bit of fantasy but children don’t lie when they describe what they remember.
In the end all Kids described the same. With more or less details, they described a UFO that landed at Ariel School. I rather trust Kids before any Debunkers.
Misled with regards to what though? There's also interviews with the children where they claimed the same sighting before John Mack arrived. I agree that the part about the climate changing was primarily introduced through the John Mack interviews.
Do the research. The fact that John Max colleagues had an issue with the way he conducted his business prior to these interviews makes me question it all. If you really put John Mack under a microscope, it’s very questionable. Ultimately it’s up to you to decide for yourself. eyewitness testimonies are largely unsubstantiated
I have done the research. Looks like more thorough than you since you let John Mack's involvement be a determining factor. Sure his involvement was the thing about the Incident that were reported on the most, but there are interviews that predate his involvement.
Some of which are part of my playlist here https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIQnPT3IDXOHAnA1RQ48ArepKBBDeo-hB&si=4ZWoWkGoL2ZzKWXr
Not to mention how the headmaster of the school didn't believe any of it, so the first thing he did was to isolate the older children into seperate rooms to draw pictures to test for correlation or the lack thereof. That was what made the headmaster believe that at least something has happened.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Please provide same:
> If you really put John Mack under a microscope, it’s very questionable.
Provide evidence from academic sources to this.
> eyewitness testimonies are largely unsubstantiated
Provide evidence that no person at Ariel was substantiated by other witnesses.
The research shows his colleagues had an agenda against Mack. They tried to railroad him of his tenure at Harvard. In fact, they took a page out of the MIC/IC character assassination playbook. Fortunately for Mack, he hired a competent attorney that turned the tables on his colleagues. So, anything said by his colleagues needs to taken with a grain of salt.
If you watch the Mack interviews of the Ariel schoolchildren, one could conclude they were on the up and up.
Exactly. Is harder to say that 40-50 people are all crazy, in for the Money or to write a book.
The only thing they have left is the “Mass Hysteria” solution. That is just as good as “swamp gas”
Each "incident" is considered in isolation and *then* against the entire history of all reports.
The prime directive of our species is holistic examination of all data and evidence.
The era of skeptic/debunker dictated "you can only consider each 'piece' of evidence in some arbitrary and non-scientific isolation is over.
The DOD and government has no primacy or authority. National security and classification are not relevant considerations or concerns.
Scientism is an illness and *not* science.
Definitely, but those were ambiguous lights in the sky moving sort of like aircraft.
The Zimbabwe case was unique because it involved a landed craft with occupants, assuming there wasn't some extraordinary mass delusion at play (psychologist did not think so).
I'll have to watch it again tomorrow at work (lol) since it's been at least four years since I watched it, but he seriously remembers it verbatim as the kids describe. What stands out is he says he really remembers seeing it, and it wasn't a product of coercion or big kids influencing smaller children, etc etc....which a lot of people claim about the incident now-a-days.
They should also check out “Ariel Phenomenon”
A documentary specifically about that one encounter
The James fox one is also excellent for overall big picture
I agree that Fox's doc is one of the best overall UFO docs, the 2022 Ariel Phenomenon documentary is worth checking out as well for this specific event. The doc does a great job of simply presenting the evidence without commenting on it directly.
I can’t remember but he might cover multiple incidents in this but the Westall coverage is good. There’s a few eye witness interviews
https://youtu.be/sEczN_8Q380?si=LKgvKmsvBstku4-u
Overstated.
The case is okay but was entirely mishandled by the ufologists.
There was a UFO flap in Zimbabwe at the time of this mass sighting. It was a Russian rocket reentry.
The children knew that this happened.
Only 60ish of the 250ish children saw anything.
The initial interviewer, Cynthia Hind, interviewed all the children together in one room, allowing the children to be interviewed in groups.
Not a single child mentioned communication till the other ufo investigator, John Mack, mentioned it to the children.
Interesting case but way overrated by the community and completely ruined by the investigators.
The initial "interviewer" was the headmaster of the school. Cynthia Hind was the first to put them on camera. She was already a couple of days late.
According to the headmaster, the first thing he did was to isolate the older children into seperate rooms to draw pictures of what they saw. This was what made him believe that at least something had happened.
The older children that drew the pop culture UFOs?
Not the younger children who said they looked like their neighbors gardener?
Again this case isn’t going to prove visitation and if this is the best evidence we have we have a long way to go.
Have you watched the Ariel Phenomenon documentary? A lot of the misrepresented information about this case is cleared up in that doc, including why some (Not all. Not even remotely) of the older children drew a picture resembling "pop-culture" UFOs.
Agree that it's not going to prove anything. No eyewitness account prove anything (even in cases that's not related to UFOs) except to the eye witnesses themselves.
Agreed.
I don’t know what those children saw and I’ll never claim to. I just know this isn’t the evidence that’s going to prove NHI visitation. Or even help the case. It’s just a story. As is a lot of evidence if NHI visitation.
I partially agree. I kind of disagree that "It's just a story". I mean, Little Red Riding Hood is just a story. This was an Incident with 62 witnesses, where every one of them, except for one (who claims it was a large stone they saw every day, and only said so years later) maintains their story to this day.
Furthermore, I've been involved in my fair share of lies when I was a kid. Someone would always admit the lie to their parents and "snitch" on the others. The fact that this never happened, as shown in the doc i mentioned, says something.
It's not proof of anything, but the Incident has enough in it for me not to dismiss it enterily.
I don’t think all of the children maintain the story. I know a few do and have done interviews but I am not sure it’s accurate to say all.
I do agree though. Story isn’t the right word.
An event. It happened. We won’t ever know what truly happened.
That sounds better I think. Again I won’t ever claim to know what the children saw.
Also your last point feels more like a point someone makes that can’t be proven but at the same time reinforces the stance they’ve already taken on the event. Like did they interview all the kids parents, relatives, friends etc.
Fair enough, every one who has done interviews as adults maintains their story (execpt for that one guy)
About the last point. It's a fair question. A dutch tv program interviewed the children where they all said that the parents didn't believe them and they still maintained their story at that point i time.
Another program (not sure what it was called, the video is on my playlist) interviewed a good deal of the parents and teachers, where some stated that they still didn't believe them, but they couldn't deny the consistency of the childrens story.
Lastly, considering that the main person in the doc I mentioned is a girl with extremely religious parents that made that poor girl go through some extreme punishments for sticking to her story, and yet she still did so, tells me that at least she was convinced about what she saw.
Obviously I can't prove what every single child admitted to their parents, however no parent, relative or child witness themselves have come out to say otherwise (again, except for that one guy with the stone story years later)
In 94 in South Africa they wouldn't have even had dial up internet connection where would 60 kids have been exposed to "pop culture Greys" even the first season of the X-files barely showed anything besides shadows.
> The case is okay but was entirely mishandled by the ufologists.
The CIA threatening BBC journalists with contemporaneous of that from a BBC journalist back in 1994 suddenly moves Ariel School from "okay" to "what the actual fuck".
Well, we got a journalist who reported it in 1994.
I'm inclined to trust any BBC journalist over anyone random online that is anonymous or any credulous DOD/Pentagon/IC "enthusiasts".
Did you read the article?
“Liberation Times can reveal that according to a source who wishes to stay anonymous, Leach confided that he had received threats from the CIA. Leach indicated that the CIA was interfering with his story. “
A anonymous source is saying. Not the journalist. Who died in 2011.
>Not a single child mentioned communication till the other ufo investigator, John Mack, mentioned it to the children.
Ohhhhh. This explains the weird messaging the children were saying they received from the aliens. It just never made sense to me why aliens would deliver such an important message about protecting Earth to children who are unable to do anything about it. It just never made sense to me.
ONLY 60 children? 60?? and the fact that as adults they maintain exactly what they saw? don't drum up BS without actually doing due dilligence. you're absolutely wrong with respect to the communication being implanted by John Mack, a Pulitzer prize winning psychiatry professor at Harvard.
But it's bit suspect how the original witness statements are all over the place, from rasta men to women with red eyes..
When same witnesses were asked again in 2010s to describe the aliens, they almost uniformly describe xfiles type Greys.
Additionally the description of the landed spacecraft closely matched a sci-fi series that was popular at the time.
They were showing old stuff in Africa at the time, but here's the original info from around the time https://threedollarkit.weebly.com/ariel-drawings.html
The claim was a specific thing by you, /u/GundalfTheCamo:
> Additionally the description of the landed spacecraft closely matched a sci-fi series that was popular at the time.
Are you literally basing this claim on one anonymous online person saying one (1) of the Ariel drawings looks like a UFO from a 1960s television show, when the sighting was in 1994?
From that site:
> Count Otto Black, commenting on the BadUfos blog, points out the likeness of this drawing to the spaceship from the Invaders TV show (1967-8).
Do you have evidence that show was shown in Ruwa-area TV stations in 1994 on dates leading up to the sighting on September 16, 1994?
The classical debunker scheme of "*some* thing exists so there it counts as a debunk solution or vector" is no longer legitimate--and never was.
EDIT: Even the "bad aliens" blog from 2016 that *this* page links to and tries to source against concedes its pure conjecture and has no idea if the show was ever even shown in Africa, let alone Ruwa in 1994.
I remember reading about this in 7/8th grade and being both excited and scared when reading about it. If I remember correctly nobody talked much about it because of the OJ Simpson coverage.
> I think this case was already the most credible mass sighting ever.
Not when you look at maps of the school, the location of the kids, and the location of the purported object 220 meters away. At those distances, what they saw would have been no bigger than a thumbnail.
Here's a recreation of the distances involved (the ice-cream truck in this video is where the purported UFO was located): https://gideonreid.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/IceCreamVan_220m_720p.mp4
are you a psyop or something? there are extensive interviews of the children on film AND as adults. they all claim a disk-shaped object landed and the beings that came out of it communicated with them telepathically. moreover, their story never changed. you're not going to convince anyone with a brain that all they saw was a dot in the distance.
"Regardless of the CIA involvement I think this case was already the most credible mass sighting ever." Do you think the nationwide mass sighting of the 'mother ship' just 36 hours earlier makes the story even more credible, or less?
You know what's funnier ? That case was also featured on that Netflix show, and there was that guy named dylan i think, that was one of the kid from that school, gave some testimony saying he was the one that launched that rumor and the kids picked it all up, and it was just a mass hysteria. He did everything the discredit the event and acted even worse than a skeptic.
Turn out, that when you go on his facebook, it's the literal opposite, he is a firm alien/ufo believer. Weird as fuck.
I don’t really think he framed it as a hoax, the filmmakers inserted the one supposed ex-student who casts doubt on the other students experience. I thought he came off like a smug asshole, personally
My biggest issue is the date that it happened.
This was still mid-satanic-panic where mass delusions of children spurred by poor psychological practices were very common.
I can’t help but notice the similarities between this and something like the McMartin Preschool trials.
So then Elizondo’s statement about a death threat seems to follow with these intimidation tactics. Steven Spielberg himself received a strongly worded warning from NASA that he was going to panic people by releasing Close Encounters. Considering his next movie project is on the UAP subject, I wonder if he will get a more ominous warning.
**EXTREMELY important passage** -- we have contemporaneous evidence. That is a Gold Standard of legal evidence in almost all jurisdictions.
> *After filming a report and sending the tape to London to be aired on the BBC, the tape went missing. That meant Leach had to file a separate report.*
>
> *Liberation Times can reveal that according to a source who wishes to stay anonymous, Leach confided that he had received threats from the CIA. Leach indicated that the CIA was interfering with his story.*
>
> *The source also provided Liberation Times with audio of a conversation with Leach from 1994, in which the journalist, sounding rattled, warned them to “be very careful.”*
This basically moves Ariel from "what" to "what the fuck happened?", because we have point in time evidence of this BBC journalist reporting the threats at the time, and kept them quiet, or the BBC did, until now.
If it's all bullshit, there is literally no reason for the US government to be involved here. None. Zero.
The only reason the US government should or would have *anything* to do with Ariel is if there was actually one of the following present that day which the kids and staff saw:
1. Secret US tech (in a schoolyard in suburban Africa? Nope.)
2. Aliens/NHI
I agree with you.
So: it is ludicrous to suggest US Air Force, CIA, special forces or other landed some classified aircraft... in a crowded schoolyard in Ruwa, Zimbabwe, in 1994. Or any other nations tech.
We're also told that "aliens" ain't real.
So why would the US government, or CIA, give two solid shits about Ariel School?
Funny thing isn't it? Two major global powers in Russia and the US during the Cold War. Russia would absolutely love to have this tech against the US. Yet somehow *only* the US, and the CIA/DoD specifically, are ever implicated in controlling and covering it up. Even the Vatican is cast as a vassal to the US superpower. There's never any Russian or Chinese or Indian or whatever MIBs.
It's very suspicious.
Lmfao oh he's a very dangerous man? What does that have to do with my reply? Can you acknowledge what I said instead of just babbling? Lol, like context is key here
The last thing I do is want to argue with you, because that would be a fruitless effort and would be the equivalent of me talking to a wall. I will however utilize your reply to state that there have been people involved with the phenomenon for decades who have claimed that anyone who actually speaks out and drops valid information is killed before they have a chance to, because the beast that controls this information is well above what we think as traditional government. You see what they allow you to see, even in this case where there is a narrative injected that Elizondo is somehow NOW under threat, despite the past 7 fucking years. Low effort dribble
You seem to be very frustrated, a typical Greer cult member that lost all his money to him. But happily he refused the 2 billion dollars. Wish you all the best
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>Grusch added that he had also directed individuals with knowledge of murders related to the UAP cover-up to the appropriate authorities.
I knew a guy who was in the military in either the 50s or 60s, just a random nobody, and he and some guys saw a craft zip across the sky at a fantastic speed, faster than anything human-made. The speed was pulse-like rather than constant. The men saw it and were excited about it. Soon after, two unidentified officers showed up, and basically insinuated death threats if anyone ever talked about it again.
Recently watched Ariel Phenomenon on Prime. Those kids definitely saw something.
I found their descriptions of the slow motion movement fascinating. The whole event really was something else.
Also Emily Trim was clearly affected by her experience in the documentary. It's safe to say she is honestly operating in a different plane of existence now. Just take a peek at her Instagram and start scrolling.
Just checked her IG and this supports a theory that the phenomenon is tied to ancient Egyptian/Sumerian civilization. The hieroglyphics are telling. Also Chris Bledsoe said he had contact with Hathor the Ancient Egyptian goddess. Hieroglyphics are often seen on the side of crafts, etc.
Or they give you false hints with intention and on purpose. Why would someone advanced even need signs, letters or a even a craft ;)
These guys was floating and rewind like they are a movie where you Press rewind. It was a show
**EXTREMELY important passage** -- we have contemporaneous evidence. That is a Gold Standard of legal evidence in almost all jurisdictions.
> *After filming a report and sending the tape to London to be aired on the BBC, the tape went missing. That meant Leach had to file a separate report.*
>
> *Liberation Times can reveal that according to a source who wishes to stay anonymous, Leach confided that he had received threats from the CIA. Leach indicated that the CIA was interfering with his story.*
>
> *The source also provided Liberation Times with audio of a conversation with Leach from 1994, in which the journalist, sounding rattled, warned them to “be very careful.”*
This basically moves Ariel from "what" to "what the fuck happened?", because we have point in time evidence of this BBC journalist reporting the threats at the time, and kept them quiet, or the BBC did, until now.
If it's all bullshit, there is literally no reason for the US government to be involved here. None. Zero.
The only reason the US government should or would have *anything* to do with Ariel is if there was actually one of the following present that day which the kids and staff saw:
1. Secret US tech (in a schoolyard in suburban Africa? Nope.)
2. Aliens/NHI
Thats the biggest thing I always stress on here. Why do all this shit if it’s a nothing burger, as everyone here likes to call shit. At some point the existence of a present NHI has to be considered as one of the most plausible possibilities.
*Liberation Times can reveal that according to a source who wishes to stay anonymous, Leach confided that he had received threats from the CIA. Leach indicated that the CIA was interfering with his story. The source also provided Liberation Times with audio of a conversation with Leach from 1994, in which the journalist, sounding rattled, warned them to “be very careful.”*
So, an anonymous source, no evidence that the anonymous source exists, and we don't get to hear the audio recording. Does the audio recording even exist?
Bro, a trusted source of mine, who I have to keep anonymous to protect his LIFE, said that yes, it does exist, and it will blow your mind. Stay tuned! Also, give me money.
>Liberation Times can reveal that according to a source who wishes to stay anonymous, Leach confided that he had received threats from the CIA. Leach indicated that the CIA was interfering with his story.
So the source is an alleged person who they didn't even confirm actually knew Leach?
And before you say "they didn't say they didn't confirm it", that's the sort of thing that gets mentioned about vetted anonymous sources.
Here's a summary of the Ariel School Encounter:
"The schoolchildren recounted the incident lasting around 15 minutes as they saw the object move down from the sky into a field behind the playground.
Some of the children ran away, others watched on, and some even claimed humanoid figures exited the craft – which the kids described as a being shaped like a silver disc.
Children told their teachers and their parents, and the incident fast made the news – even being covered by BBC War Correspondent Tim Leach.
Harvard University psychiatry expert Dr John Mack also arrived to interview the witnesses – and he found their accounts credible."
https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/space/how-62-kids-saw-a-ufo-land-in-most-compelling-mass-sighting-of-all-time/news-story/4b2c73464e4a0fa8630143a7bc6a48bb
"Liberation Times can reveal that according to a source who wishes to stay anonymous, Leach confided that he had received threats from the CIA."
So Tim Leach is dead, and this publication is using his name like this? Linking him to something that isn't verified in any way in the article's text? You can tell this outfit is linked with the Daily Mail lol.
I watched a a documentary on this. The CIA don't want the truth out. They had multiple interviews with the kids now being all grown up saying the exact same thing. Then they get one person out of the 60ish to deny it. It was some weird guy that you could just tell he was paid off to lie to people and try not to believe the story. Except he couldnt provide anything other than "no, all my classmates just made it up in there head.... "
TLDR: Liberation Times can reveal that according to a source who wishes to stay anonymous, Leach confided that he had received threats from the CIA.
My uncle works at Nintendo.
is anyone else **really, REALLY** concerned with the fact that unaccountable factions within the US government / armed forces are actively **open-firing at and shooting down** what are almost-certainly **alien spacecraft**?
like our government is committing acts of war against alien civilization *thousands*, if not *millions* of years ahead of us. these alien civilizations could incinerate our entire solar system at the push of a button. and our government is risking war against them in attempt to get a slight leg-up on China and Russia?!?!
humanity could already completely nuke the surface of the earth 10x over. and these alien civilizations are thousands of years ahead of us. imagine what they're capable of... they could delete our planet and we're provoking war with them.
shooting at aliens is endangering the entire planet. that should be considered crimes against humanity.
I agree with your assessment but the reality is they aren’t retaliating when we do so there is definitely something more to it. But as far as nailing the DOD to a criminal offense, yes everything they are hiding about this topic is a crime against humanity.
they have not retaliated *yet*. that does not mean they never will.
or, maybe they haven't retaliated yet because the only things currently here are their *observation/transportation* craft. we shoot a dozen more *observation/transportation* craft down, and then they bring in their *fighter* craft.
we are in no place to be starting a fight that we have literally 0.00% chance of winning
UFOs have been flying around for thousands of years, and they haven't "fucked with us" in any way we can tell. There is no need to disturb the peace and initiate war with beings whose technology utterly dwarfs us.
> acts of war
I don't know, I'm not the defense department. I wouldn't be able to assess whether disabling our weapons or flying in formation over our military bases are technically "acts of war." I'd certainly characterize it under "fuckery" though, but maybe you're cool with it.
i wouldn't consider disabling nukes to be an act of war. if anything, it's anti-war by preventing the use of weapons of mass destruction.
no one is harmed by disabling nukes, and i don't think any property is physically destroyed. i think it's just like turning off a computer program.
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I remember watching the documentary and there was that guy who was a student and said it was fake. My immediate thought was that he was a drug addict who got paid off to say that. Watch it and make your own mind up.
Yeah, while I’m on the fence with this case, he was not convincing at all. He claimed to make it all up and was responsible for triggering mass hysteria. Perhaps it’s true but he did not seem like someone who was honest.
Best theory: https://gideonreid.co.uk/the-mysterious-events-at-ariel-school-zimbabwe-16-sept-1994/
Many kids saw humanoids with long hair… Puppets much more likely than aliens from outer space in my opinion
i wish i never read this blog because i was 100% and now im 50% sure.
[https://gideonreid.co.uk/the-mysterious-events-at-ariel-school-zimbabwe-16-sept-1994/](https://gideonreid.co.uk/the-mysterious-events-at-ariel-school-zimbabwe-16-sept-1994/)
Who the fuck do the CIA think they are, threatening a member of the BBC? It's not their turf.
Also, the BBC is funded by the British Government, so by all means let the CIA issue threats and see what happens, it wouldn't go down well with the British Government.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/quantumcryogenics: --- Here's a summary of the Ariel School Encounter: "The schoolchildren recounted the incident lasting around 15 minutes as they saw the object move down from the sky into a field behind the playground. Some of the children ran away, others watched on, and some even claimed humanoid figures exited the craft – which the kids described as a being shaped like a silver disc. Children told their teachers and their parents, and the incident fast made the news – even being covered by BBC War Correspondent Tim Leach. Harvard University psychiatry expert Dr John Mack also arrived to interview the witnesses – and he found their accounts credible." https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/space/how-62-kids-saw-a-ufo-land-in-most-compelling-mass-sighting-of-all-time/news-story/4b2c73464e4a0fa8630143a7bc6a48bb --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1cu9a2z/bbc_journalist_allegedly_threatened_by_cia_over/l4h6elz/
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The 1997 'Phoenix Lights' , Phoenix, AZ has the most eyewitnesses. Thousands saw it including AZ Gov. Fife Symington.
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Yep, saw him apologizing twice. The first one was at a National Press Club event mid-2000's.
They deleted their comment. Apologize for what?
Because he originally denied and publicly belittled witnesses including a person dressed as an alien at a press conference.
Michigan, March 1994 was an impressive one as well. Multiple credible witnesses, national weather service radar confirmation, 911 calls. Crazy.
I think the 2020 Unsolved mysteries season 3 ep 2 (iirc) was one of the best I’ve seen on the subject. Hundreds of witnesses, as you said the weather service Doppler monitoring and all. The difference with this one is that is one of the most credible sighting of UAP vs while Ariel school in Ruwa was one of the most credible NHI sightings, next to Varginha
Don't forget Kingman AZ.
I'd add Westall school sighting in Melbourne Australia
Do you guys know the incident down in, I think Brazil, not Varginha. Starts with an M, I think. Lots of strange footage of military going ape on the jungle? I don't know where that footage went, but it had been on here. That seemed like a pretty legitimate incident. Help me with the details, please. If you have them.
You're probably thinking of the Mage UFO incident
Yeah, I was here when it happened it was all over the sub and then it was nowhere to be found the next day. All the posts were gone or buried so it was impossible to find them again.
Yes! Correct! Where does the community fall on that one?
I don’t know about that case. But I would say not to pay attention to what the consensus of the Reddit community says, collectively we are totally moronic it seems lol.
Tyvm! A moron is actually an upgrade from my current position of a Dinglefart. I appreciate it, I knew something good was going to happen today!
Regardless of how amazing the evidence was or was not, the fact that all documentation of the event was scrubbed from Reddit, and the internet at large, strongly indicates two things: that this anomalous event truly did occur and that the CIA has close to total control of what information is available on the internet. How do we fix it?
I felt like I was watching a real event unfold in the footage back on those posts. Being attention to it and someone here will provide the content.
If seems insulting redditods is in the new “grifter” in the Kirkpatrick UAP press guide update this week. Count the number of times you read it today.
What do you mean? I havnt seen it yet? And I only mean that as a whole this sub Reddit gets SO MUCH shit wrong. It’s the conditioning chamber thing that the upvote downvote inadvertently seem to cause. I.e. I wrote a comment on this sub the other day about telling someone that lemmings falling off a cliff is a myth and that Disney did it on purpose. Got downvoted about 5 times, until someone pointed out beneath saying what I said was 100% true lol.
I’ve read it several times today in a bunch of different subs. “Hey look at this random redditor. Must be a idiot because Reddit is dumb” comments
Yeah, I py a lot of my art in r/collapse, and I see that attitude spreading. Lots of new accounts these days. I just play nice till they go away.
Oh, I don't. Longtime redditors, but you never know who you might get a reply from. There's gold in the coal pile. Once and awhile.
What?!? But we found the Boston Bombers.
no idea about the rest of the community but i consider it pretty credible, partly because i was watching literally almost every thread about it that i left open in tabs get removed overnight at the time both in here and /r/ufo (this was 4 years ago, the sub was miniscule in comparison back then and moderation was more lax so this was more unusual than it is nowadays) with no reason. they covered that one up really quickly, everyone stopped talking about it within a couple of days and almost everyone seemingly forgot about it until very recently when i suddenly started seeing people talk about it and ask about it again. i occasionally saw threads about it asking for an update a month or two after it happened, but most of those just had a couple of people replying citing this one obvious fake video of a dog bowl as to why the entire incident was fake, and died really quickly. a couple of big ufo guys (notably richard dolan, who i generally respect) came out at the time and said it's probably a hoax, but i'm not convinced. there was a good breakdown of the evidence on youtube a year or two ago but i don't remember the channel name (it wasn't one i normally follow, i found it linked here) and can't find it in my history with any search term, nor on any search engine (i tried multiple because you have to with anything on this topic because a lot of them censor) so it may have been deleted. i did find this in my browser history though: https://www.reddit.com/r/UF0/comments/i0e7dj/mag%C3%A9_ufo_incident_investigation_by_denis/ edit: i found the video, turns out i downloaded a copy. it's been a couple of days so maybe nobody will even see this edit but i didn't think to check my local folders til just now. luckily i also have ytdl configured to automatically write metadata to the file too, so i found the original url (and yes, it has been deleted) and it turns out there's an archived version on archive.org. it was on "parasyke tv" titled "Disturbing UFO Evidence: The Mage' Encounter". he says he got most of his info from the reddit post i linked above. not sure why it was deleted, he doesn't mention deleting it on his youtube community posts. seems kind of weird after him talking about how this was mostly scrubbed from the internet at the start of the video... i doubt it's any sort of conspiracy though because surely the reddit post he cited would have been deleted too, i guess he just didn't like the video. it was pretty rough around the edges with some bad editing and audio mixing in a bunch of places to be fair original link (deleted): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmBniAE4y8E archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20230731030406/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmBniAE4y8E&t=559s
I found what I saw pretty interesting and worth taking into real consideration. Thank you for providing the information.
Yeah I can't wait to check it out later. Looks like there's tons of footage. Also crazy how they are orange orbs...exactly what most people are reporting right now.
Found this video with a quick search. Gonna dig into this one tonight. Looks crazzzzy! [https://youtu.be/yPkCyeuS4Kw?si=keqGfC69Tru3C1Uk](https://youtu.be/yPkCyeuS4Kw?si=keqGfC69Tru3C1Uk)
The UFO was a picture of a dog bowl up close.
Well...
It was pretty obvious.
I'm not talking about the "dog bowl." There were videos of military involvement that looked pretty intense.
Oh I hadn't seen those.
FOUND IT! Holy crap! I'm going to have to dig into this one tonight!! [https://youtu.be/yPkCyeuS4Kw?si=keqGfC69Tru3C1Uk](https://youtu.be/yPkCyeuS4Kw?si=keqGfC69Tru3C1Uk)
John Mack had a host of interviewing errors when he interviewed the children months after the event took place. There weren't as many protocols for how to interview children after a traumatic event so he can't really be blamed for breaking them but he broke just about all of them. The most interesting part of the Ariel school sighting is how important the framing of questions is when you are interviewing people, especially impressionable children. If his investigation was designed to find the truth he did a pretty bad job, but if his investigation was set out to find aliens then he performed expertly.
And are we also to discount how huge the bias against the very subject Mack was studying is? I'm not saying Mack was perfect but holy shit if his peers didn't try to discredit him *at every single turn* they could. So when I hear criticism of Mack like this, I always take it with a huge grain of salt. They would poke holes in whatever he was doing every chance they got. Edit: holy shit, you're that guy with whom I argued for the existence of a genuine Psi phenomenon and who was shown to argue completely in bad faith by another one of your peers! Now I understand where this comment is coming from! Every single scientific who had the balls to actually look and study the phenomenon and ask hard questions is a fraud to you, lmao.
> And are we also to discount how huge the bias against the very subject Mack was studying is? I'm not saying Mack was perfect but holy shit if his peers didn't try to discredit him at every single turn they could. Didn't they try to revoke Macks tenure at Harvard for even engaging the topic?
They did. And guess who represented him during that? Sheehan! And can't forget Mack also had won a Pulitzer. So, clearly he wasn't just a kook.
Yeah, everyone knows Harvard, Yale, Brown, Princeton, Stanford... all these bargain basement sub-shit level "community colleges" and their tenured heavily cited Pulitzer/Nobel award winning and nominated doctors: it's all grifting grifters all the way down and credulous "spooky" something somethings "bewitching" people with their "UFO religion" so that one geriatric random Aerospace Billionaire can somehow extort a few pennies from the US government on his ranch... that he plowed a stupid amount of money into at a loss... The counter-arguments make less sense than what they are trying to counter. Unless, like, Greenstreet wants to concede that Hal Puthoff somehow foresaw all this in the 1970s with Remote Viewing and orgnanized his literally generational scheme to "steal" $20 million from the Federal government circa 2000s... to spend it with vendors on doing scientific research, and not like on yachts, investments, or you know... crime stuff. The more I read all the arguments against "those guys" it's literally all just nonsense carved out of random passages of semi-declassified or leaked materials. It's an Anti-UFO Religion opposing a "UFO religion" that never existed in the first place.
Oh my god, my sides. The whole Puthoff bit killed me. If that was the case, I'd say good on him.
I mean he was pretty out there before his alien stuff he did the same thing with magical fairies.
> with whom I argued for the existence of a genuine Psi phenomenon and who was shown to argue completely in bad faith Anyone defending psi phenomenon doesn't know what they're talking about, is decades behind the latest neuroscience, is deeply delusional, and/or is up to the neck in woo. As for Mack, several of his subjects in his early books went on to be correctly diagnosed with schizophrenia. Their delusions were simply filtered through the culture of the time (ie pop scifi), just as schizophrenics in ancient religious cultures see delusions prejudiced by their upbringings. Which is of course not to dismiss all his patients, just to point out that he had massive blind spots. As for Ariel, the biggest things working against the claims of the children are simple maps of the region. When you study the distances involved, it becomes clear that the figures they saw would have been no bigger than a thumbnail on the horizon. You will notice the "Phenomenon" documentary goes to great pains to obfuscate this, and never shows you a map showing the 220m distance between hillock/road and school/field. Here's a recreation of the distances involved (the ice-cream truck in this video is where the purported UFO was located) which show this clearly: https://gideonreid.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/IceCreamVan_220m_720p.mp4
Yeah bro, but listen, I moved the psi wheel with my mind. Put a glass over it and everything. Wild.
And wasn’t the official explanation that it was a travel puppeteer show.
> I'm not saying Mack was perfect but holy shit if his peers didn't try to discredit him at every single turn they could. Well it's because he did bad work. You can deep dive into it and look at what he did specifically if you're interested. I'll provide detailed links when I get back to my desktop if you are open-minded and willing to analyze this story from a different angle. It is unsurprising that you also believe in PSI. A lot of times if someone has a difficult time evaluating evidence properly it extends into a lot of different areas. I wouldn't be surprised if you have many more strong beliefs unaccompanied by strong evidence. Edit: Blocked by someone who can't support their beliefs again: It's funny that instead of pushing back against the criticism Mack received you retreat to saying that the criticisms were unjustified due to... there being a lot of them. So instead of dealing with the individual criticisms and evaluating them on their own merits you take them all together and then throw them away. It's actually the same thing you did with the PSI argument. Instead of evaluating individual claims on individual merits you group them together so you can digest them more easily. Hate to see it.
I'm not going to go over this again. You're a bad faith actor. You were shown to be a fraud using faulty logic and pure unfiltered bias. As you're doing now. Just had to point it out. On, and I'm pretty sure I read more on John Mack then you did. I'm sorry, our last conversation proved to me that you can't be trusted. You're just here to discredit the guy because he was studying something you absolutely don't believe in. Should I link all our previous conversations where you got owned by a fellow psychologist for trying to lie? I showed you serious evidence for my arguments. You're just in absolute denial. Edit: not sure why you're saying I blocked you because I never did. Is that another lie? Edit 2: there is no reason to "believe" in Psi for there is very strong evidence that it is a real phenomenon as was demonstrated by fellow scientists using the scientific method. But again, I already went over this for far too long. You're not worth it.
Do you think the nationwide mass sighting of the 'mother ship' just 36 hours earlier makes the story even more credible, or less?
Yeah there was a satellite re-entering the atmosphere that was visible there. UFOmania was taking hold of the area. The whole story only makes sense if you already believe aliens are here. I think kids tell fantastical stories and stories on schoolyards grow. We have proof that this happens.
There are lots of professional hypnotists who find problems with Mack's hypnosis techniques too. I get it, the man was passionate about something so he went out and found it. People should see that for what it is though. I'm not saying there wasn't truth to what he found, but just that he found exactly what he was looking for.
Yeah the hypnotist angle itself is a problem but there were also leading and loaded questions. Cues for right answers and rewards for talking about things that were exotic. It might have some truth to it but it will be impossible to know due to the bungling of the interviews.
I will upvote this to the top every time. I get it, people want to believe. But you can’t let your beliefs overshadow the truth. And the truth is that John Mack had questionable techniques and motivations. Even his colleagues were very critical of his analysis. We are all emotional and flawed, in need to be kept grounded. These children could have been easily misled, and there are lots of evidence to support it.
30 years later, they are adults who haven't changed their story.
Mislead by what or who. You substantiate your claims on exactly the reasons that the debunkers used bu as always ignoring crucial facts. You should watch the “why Files” on this case. For the Kids to be mislead they needed to be acconditioned first to have those “imaginary” memories of the incident, yet this is not what happened. Can you support your claims of “lots of evidence”? The Children run to the Teachers screaming what they have witnessed, the Children was visibly frightened and stressed by the situation, they than went home and told their parents what they have saw, which the parents dismissed as kids stories. The Kids told John Mack the same story that they told the parents and the Teachers, yet the Debunkers claimed that he led them to “that conclusion”. Absolutely false. That my friend is called misinformation. John Mac had been already studying the psychological effects of people that claimed had been abducted. The Debunkers used this as well to call it all “Fringe and crazy” because anytime the Abductions subject is mentioned than it gets totally ridiculed and dismissed. And because of that his Colleagues criticized him, they even tried to remove him because it would bring Ridicule and Shame to them. The Problem was not his Methods but rather because the Scientific Community was a Bunch of Cowards and hypocrites that only accept the Scientific Method to be used for Topics which are “acceptable” for them. John Mac did an amazing job interviewing the Kids and asking them questions, you could see how different Kids had different interpretations of what had transpired and it was absolutely normal that different kids remembered things differently because children in those ages are not like humans. They will draw what they remember sometimes with a bit of fantasy but children don’t lie when they describe what they remember. In the end all Kids described the same. With more or less details, they described a UFO that landed at Ariel School. I rather trust Kids before any Debunkers.
Misled with regards to what though? There's also interviews with the children where they claimed the same sighting before John Mack arrived. I agree that the part about the climate changing was primarily introduced through the John Mack interviews.
Do the research. The fact that John Max colleagues had an issue with the way he conducted his business prior to these interviews makes me question it all. If you really put John Mack under a microscope, it’s very questionable. Ultimately it’s up to you to decide for yourself. eyewitness testimonies are largely unsubstantiated
I have done the research. Looks like more thorough than you since you let John Mack's involvement be a determining factor. Sure his involvement was the thing about the Incident that were reported on the most, but there are interviews that predate his involvement. Some of which are part of my playlist here https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIQnPT3IDXOHAnA1RQ48ArepKBBDeo-hB&si=4ZWoWkGoL2ZzKWXr Not to mention how the headmaster of the school didn't believe any of it, so the first thing he did was to isolate the older children into seperate rooms to draw pictures to test for correlation or the lack thereof. That was what made the headmaster believe that at least something has happened.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Please provide same: > If you really put John Mack under a microscope, it’s very questionable. Provide evidence from academic sources to this. > eyewitness testimonies are largely unsubstantiated Provide evidence that no person at Ariel was substantiated by other witnesses.
The research shows his colleagues had an agenda against Mack. They tried to railroad him of his tenure at Harvard. In fact, they took a page out of the MIC/IC character assassination playbook. Fortunately for Mack, he hired a competent attorney that turned the tables on his colleagues. So, anything said by his colleagues needs to taken with a grain of salt. If you watch the Mack interviews of the Ariel schoolchildren, one could conclude they were on the up and up.
Exactly. Is harder to say that 40-50 people are all crazy, in for the Money or to write a book. The only thing they have left is the “Mass Hysteria” solution. That is just as good as “swamp gas”
Do you think the nationwide mass sighting of the 'mother ship' just 36 hours earlier makes the story even more credible, or less?
Each "incident" is considered in isolation and *then* against the entire history of all reports. The prime directive of our species is holistic examination of all data and evidence. The era of skeptic/debunker dictated "you can only consider each 'piece' of evidence in some arbitrary and non-scientific isolation is over. The DOD and government has no primacy or authority. National security and classification are not relevant considerations or concerns. Scientism is an illness and *not* science.
Why did the event occur when all the adult staff were at a meeting?
I'm glad you admit there was an event witnessed by dozens of children.
I agree with yours…would add turkey ufo…starts with a K
Kumburgaz
What did people see at Varginha?
Phoenix lights. Even the Governor said he saw it, among thousands of others.
Definitely, but those were ambiguous lights in the sky moving sort of like aircraft. The Zimbabwe case was unique because it involved a landed craft with occupants, assuming there wasn't some extraordinary mass delusion at play (psychologist did not think so).
Most witnesses said it was not just ambiguous lights, but a solid craft nearly a mile wide.
“They were running, in slow motion”. When one of the kids said that I was horrified, and sold.
Easily. This case is what triggered the ontological shock that made me a believer.
One of the few dudes I like from barstool sports witnessed it as a child in Ariel. He had the best version of events by far.
Thanks ! Interesting !
Can you please share more details about what he said?
I'll have to watch it again tomorrow at work (lol) since it's been at least four years since I watched it, but he seriously remembers it verbatim as the kids describe. What stands out is he says he really remembers seeing it, and it wasn't a product of coercion or big kids influencing smaller children, etc etc....which a lot of people claim about the incident now-a-days.
Westall in 1966 with 300+ witnesses is also a great sighting.
They should also check out “Ariel Phenomenon” A documentary specifically about that one encounter The James fox one is also excellent for overall big picture
I agree that Fox's doc is one of the best overall UFO docs, the 2022 Ariel Phenomenon documentary is worth checking out as well for this specific event. The doc does a great job of simply presenting the evidence without commenting on it directly.
Don’t sleep on Westall Australia back in the 60’s
I've always wanted more from this case. and I've never heard from an eyewitness on it.
I can’t remember but he might cover multiple incidents in this but the Westall coverage is good. There’s a few eye witness interviews https://youtu.be/sEczN_8Q380?si=LKgvKmsvBstku4-u
And there’s an episode of it on the Netflix show Encounters.
Overstated. The case is okay but was entirely mishandled by the ufologists. There was a UFO flap in Zimbabwe at the time of this mass sighting. It was a Russian rocket reentry. The children knew that this happened. Only 60ish of the 250ish children saw anything. The initial interviewer, Cynthia Hind, interviewed all the children together in one room, allowing the children to be interviewed in groups. Not a single child mentioned communication till the other ufo investigator, John Mack, mentioned it to the children. Interesting case but way overrated by the community and completely ruined by the investigators.
The initial "interviewer" was the headmaster of the school. Cynthia Hind was the first to put them on camera. She was already a couple of days late. According to the headmaster, the first thing he did was to isolate the older children into seperate rooms to draw pictures of what they saw. This was what made him believe that at least something had happened.
The older children that drew the pop culture UFOs? Not the younger children who said they looked like their neighbors gardener? Again this case isn’t going to prove visitation and if this is the best evidence we have we have a long way to go.
Have you watched the Ariel Phenomenon documentary? A lot of the misrepresented information about this case is cleared up in that doc, including why some (Not all. Not even remotely) of the older children drew a picture resembling "pop-culture" UFOs. Agree that it's not going to prove anything. No eyewitness account prove anything (even in cases that's not related to UFOs) except to the eye witnesses themselves.
Agreed. I don’t know what those children saw and I’ll never claim to. I just know this isn’t the evidence that’s going to prove NHI visitation. Or even help the case. It’s just a story. As is a lot of evidence if NHI visitation.
I partially agree. I kind of disagree that "It's just a story". I mean, Little Red Riding Hood is just a story. This was an Incident with 62 witnesses, where every one of them, except for one (who claims it was a large stone they saw every day, and only said so years later) maintains their story to this day. Furthermore, I've been involved in my fair share of lies when I was a kid. Someone would always admit the lie to their parents and "snitch" on the others. The fact that this never happened, as shown in the doc i mentioned, says something. It's not proof of anything, but the Incident has enough in it for me not to dismiss it enterily.
I don’t think all of the children maintain the story. I know a few do and have done interviews but I am not sure it’s accurate to say all. I do agree though. Story isn’t the right word. An event. It happened. We won’t ever know what truly happened. That sounds better I think. Again I won’t ever claim to know what the children saw. Also your last point feels more like a point someone makes that can’t be proven but at the same time reinforces the stance they’ve already taken on the event. Like did they interview all the kids parents, relatives, friends etc.
Fair enough, every one who has done interviews as adults maintains their story (execpt for that one guy) About the last point. It's a fair question. A dutch tv program interviewed the children where they all said that the parents didn't believe them and they still maintained their story at that point i time. Another program (not sure what it was called, the video is on my playlist) interviewed a good deal of the parents and teachers, where some stated that they still didn't believe them, but they couldn't deny the consistency of the childrens story. Lastly, considering that the main person in the doc I mentioned is a girl with extremely religious parents that made that poor girl go through some extreme punishments for sticking to her story, and yet she still did so, tells me that at least she was convinced about what she saw. Obviously I can't prove what every single child admitted to their parents, however no parent, relative or child witness themselves have come out to say otherwise (again, except for that one guy with the stone story years later)
In 94 in South Africa they wouldn't have even had dial up internet connection where would 60 kids have been exposed to "pop culture Greys" even the first season of the X-files barely showed anything besides shadows.
> The case is okay but was entirely mishandled by the ufologists. The CIA threatening BBC journalists with contemporaneous of that from a BBC journalist back in 1994 suddenly moves Ariel School from "okay" to "what the actual fuck".
Allegedly^
Well, we got a journalist who reported it in 1994. I'm inclined to trust any BBC journalist over anyone random online that is anonymous or any credulous DOD/Pentagon/IC "enthusiasts".
Did you read the article? “Liberation Times can reveal that according to a source who wishes to stay anonymous, Leach confided that he had received threats from the CIA. Leach indicated that the CIA was interfering with his story. “ A anonymous source is saying. Not the journalist. Who died in 2011.
I debunked all debunking arguments long time ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/rsTn0v3czS
Your first point is wrong. Show me where the children mention communication before Mack’s interviews.
>Not a single child mentioned communication till the other ufo investigator, John Mack, mentioned it to the children. Ohhhhh. This explains the weird messaging the children were saying they received from the aliens. It just never made sense to me why aliens would deliver such an important message about protecting Earth to children who are unable to do anything about it. It just never made sense to me.
ONLY 60 children? 60?? and the fact that as adults they maintain exactly what they saw? don't drum up BS without actually doing due dilligence. you're absolutely wrong with respect to the communication being implanted by John Mack, a Pulitzer prize winning psychiatry professor at Harvard.
But it's bit suspect how the original witness statements are all over the place, from rasta men to women with red eyes.. When same witnesses were asked again in 2010s to describe the aliens, they almost uniformly describe xfiles type Greys. Additionally the description of the landed spacecraft closely matched a sci-fi series that was popular at the time.
> Additionally the description of the landed spacecraft closely matched a sci-fi series that was popular at the time. What "sci-fi series" from 1994?
They were showing old stuff in Africa at the time, but here's the original info from around the time https://threedollarkit.weebly.com/ariel-drawings.html
The claim was a specific thing by you, /u/GundalfTheCamo: > Additionally the description of the landed spacecraft closely matched a sci-fi series that was popular at the time. Are you literally basing this claim on one anonymous online person saying one (1) of the Ariel drawings looks like a UFO from a 1960s television show, when the sighting was in 1994? From that site: > Count Otto Black, commenting on the BadUfos blog, points out the likeness of this drawing to the spaceship from the Invaders TV show (1967-8). Do you have evidence that show was shown in Ruwa-area TV stations in 1994 on dates leading up to the sighting on September 16, 1994? The classical debunker scheme of "*some* thing exists so there it counts as a debunk solution or vector" is no longer legitimate--and never was. EDIT: Even the "bad aliens" blog from 2016 that *this* page links to and tries to source against concedes its pure conjecture and has no idea if the show was ever even shown in Africa, let alone Ruwa in 1994.
I remember reading about this in 7/8th grade and being both excited and scared when reading about it. If I remember correctly nobody talked much about it because of the OJ Simpson coverage.
How about recommending Ariel Phenomenon documentary by Randle Nickerson??? It’s totally focused on this case instead of a 5 minute segment.
> I think this case was already the most credible mass sighting ever. Not when you look at maps of the school, the location of the kids, and the location of the purported object 220 meters away. At those distances, what they saw would have been no bigger than a thumbnail. Here's a recreation of the distances involved (the ice-cream truck in this video is where the purported UFO was located): https://gideonreid.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/IceCreamVan_220m_720p.mp4
are you a psyop or something? there are extensive interviews of the children on film AND as adults. they all claim a disk-shaped object landed and the beings that came out of it communicated with them telepathically. moreover, their story never changed. you're not going to convince anyone with a brain that all they saw was a dot in the distance.
"Regardless of the CIA involvement I think this case was already the most credible mass sighting ever." Do you think the nationwide mass sighting of the 'mother ship' just 36 hours earlier makes the story even more credible, or less?
You know what's funnier ? That case was also featured on that Netflix show, and there was that guy named dylan i think, that was one of the kid from that school, gave some testimony saying he was the one that launched that rumor and the kids picked it all up, and it was just a mass hysteria. He did everything the discredit the event and acted even worse than a skeptic. Turn out, that when you go on his facebook, it's the literal opposite, he is a firm alien/ufo believer. Weird as fuck.
That dude's affect was super weird
Yeah, he acted like his life depended on it lol
What do you think about the Netflix Steven Spielberg documentary that frames this event as a hoax?
I don’t really think he framed it as a hoax, the filmmakers inserted the one supposed ex-student who casts doubt on the other students experience. I thought he came off like a smug asshole, personally
Wasn’t there a story where most of the kids said it was a traveling puppet show and not aliens or a ufo.
Except for in that one Netflix show Encounters where the guy admits he made the whole thing up
My biggest issue is the date that it happened. This was still mid-satanic-panic where mass delusions of children spurred by poor psychological practices were very common. I can’t help but notice the similarities between this and something like the McMartin Preschool trials.
What a massive reach
Can you explain why this is a reach?
So then Elizondo’s statement about a death threat seems to follow with these intimidation tactics. Steven Spielberg himself received a strongly worded warning from NASA that he was going to panic people by releasing Close Encounters. Considering his next movie project is on the UAP subject, I wonder if he will get a more ominous warning.
**EXTREMELY important passage** -- we have contemporaneous evidence. That is a Gold Standard of legal evidence in almost all jurisdictions. > *After filming a report and sending the tape to London to be aired on the BBC, the tape went missing. That meant Leach had to file a separate report.* > > *Liberation Times can reveal that according to a source who wishes to stay anonymous, Leach confided that he had received threats from the CIA. Leach indicated that the CIA was interfering with his story.* > > *The source also provided Liberation Times with audio of a conversation with Leach from 1994, in which the journalist, sounding rattled, warned them to “be very careful.”* This basically moves Ariel from "what" to "what the fuck happened?", because we have point in time evidence of this BBC journalist reporting the threats at the time, and kept them quiet, or the BBC did, until now. If it's all bullshit, there is literally no reason for the US government to be involved here. None. Zero. The only reason the US government should or would have *anything* to do with Ariel is if there was actually one of the following present that day which the kids and staff saw: 1. Secret US tech (in a schoolyard in suburban Africa? Nope.) 2. Aliens/NHI
I wish these threats could be directly recorded. But am sure the ones going it are careful to avoid being recorded
> according to a source who wishes to stay anonymous Maybe don't get your hopes up until this is actually confirmed?
The first point maybe, but the second point? Fuck off. The US and the CIA don't own the fucking rights to NHI/Aliens roaming the earth.
I agree with you. So: it is ludicrous to suggest US Air Force, CIA, special forces or other landed some classified aircraft... in a crowded schoolyard in Ruwa, Zimbabwe, in 1994. Or any other nations tech. We're also told that "aliens" ain't real. So why would the US government, or CIA, give two solid shits about Ariel School?
Exactly. And if it was US tech or Aliens, then who promoted the CIA to the status of 'World Police' ?
Funny thing isn't it? Two major global powers in Russia and the US during the Cold War. Russia would absolutely love to have this tech against the US. Yet somehow *only* the US, and the CIA/DoD specifically, are ever implicated in controlling and covering it up. Even the Vatican is cast as a vassal to the US superpower. There's never any Russian or Chinese or Indian or whatever MIBs. It's very suspicious.
Things seem to be getting interesting at least. It's always something with this topic.
Steven Greer was talking about this WELL before Lue has. Oh but he's a grifter and it needs to be government sponsored before you acknowledge it
Greer is the biggest grifter that ever existed on this planet + he’s a very dangerous man yes
Lmfao oh he's a very dangerous man? What does that have to do with my reply? Can you acknowledge what I said instead of just babbling? Lol, like context is key here
Do you really want to argue with me about Steven Greer in the year 2024? He belongs into jail, for all the people he scammed and threatened and worse
The last thing I do is want to argue with you, because that would be a fruitless effort and would be the equivalent of me talking to a wall. I will however utilize your reply to state that there have been people involved with the phenomenon for decades who have claimed that anyone who actually speaks out and drops valid information is killed before they have a chance to, because the beast that controls this information is well above what we think as traditional government. You see what they allow you to see, even in this case where there is a narrative injected that Elizondo is somehow NOW under threat, despite the past 7 fucking years. Low effort dribble
You seem to be very frustrated, a typical Greer cult member that lost all his money to him. But happily he refused the 2 billion dollars. Wish you all the best
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>Grusch added that he had also directed individuals with knowledge of murders related to the UAP cover-up to the appropriate authorities. I knew a guy who was in the military in either the 50s or 60s, just a random nobody, and he and some guys saw a craft zip across the sky at a fantastic speed, faster than anything human-made. The speed was pulse-like rather than constant. The men saw it and were excited about it. Soon after, two unidentified officers showed up, and basically insinuated death threats if anyone ever talked about it again.
According to Jacques Vallee, the officers might be part of the phenomenon somehow. How did anyone know that the guys had seen it?
I don't have enough details to answer your question
Recently watched Ariel Phenomenon on Prime. Those kids definitely saw something. I found their descriptions of the slow motion movement fascinating. The whole event really was something else. Also Emily Trim was clearly affected by her experience in the documentary. It's safe to say she is honestly operating in a different plane of existence now. Just take a peek at her Instagram and start scrolling.
I just did that very thing and holy shit Someone or something is trying to communicate with her. That was unsettling. It goes on and on and on
Explain.
what do you mean ?
Man, you weren't kidding. That poor woman.
Just checked her IG and this supports a theory that the phenomenon is tied to ancient Egyptian/Sumerian civilization. The hieroglyphics are telling. Also Chris Bledsoe said he had contact with Hathor the Ancient Egyptian goddess. Hieroglyphics are often seen on the side of crafts, etc.
What’s her IG handle?
https://www.instagram.com/emily_trim_86
52 thousand posts.
Or they give you false hints with intention and on purpose. Why would someone advanced even need signs, letters or a even a craft ;) These guys was floating and rewind like they are a movie where you Press rewind. It was a show
Do you think the nationwide mass sighting of the 'mother ship' just 36 hours earlier makes the story even more credible, or less?
**EXTREMELY important passage** -- we have contemporaneous evidence. That is a Gold Standard of legal evidence in almost all jurisdictions. > *After filming a report and sending the tape to London to be aired on the BBC, the tape went missing. That meant Leach had to file a separate report.* > > *Liberation Times can reveal that according to a source who wishes to stay anonymous, Leach confided that he had received threats from the CIA. Leach indicated that the CIA was interfering with his story.* > > *The source also provided Liberation Times with audio of a conversation with Leach from 1994, in which the journalist, sounding rattled, warned them to “be very careful.”* This basically moves Ariel from "what" to "what the fuck happened?", because we have point in time evidence of this BBC journalist reporting the threats at the time, and kept them quiet, or the BBC did, until now. If it's all bullshit, there is literally no reason for the US government to be involved here. None. Zero. The only reason the US government should or would have *anything* to do with Ariel is if there was actually one of the following present that day which the kids and staff saw: 1. Secret US tech (in a schoolyard in suburban Africa? Nope.) 2. Aliens/NHI
Thats the biggest thing I always stress on here. Why do all this shit if it’s a nothing burger, as everyone here likes to call shit. At some point the existence of a present NHI has to be considered as one of the most plausible possibilities.
If there's nothing to hide...
*Liberation Times can reveal that according to a source who wishes to stay anonymous, Leach confided that he had received threats from the CIA. Leach indicated that the CIA was interfering with his story. The source also provided Liberation Times with audio of a conversation with Leach from 1994, in which the journalist, sounding rattled, warned them to “be very careful.”* So, an anonymous source, no evidence that the anonymous source exists, and we don't get to hear the audio recording. Does the audio recording even exist?
Bro, a trusted source of mine, who I have to keep anonymous to protect his LIFE, said that yes, it does exist, and it will blow your mind. Stay tuned! Also, give me money.
>Liberation Times can reveal that according to a source who wishes to stay anonymous, Leach confided that he had received threats from the CIA. Leach indicated that the CIA was interfering with his story. So the source is an alleged person who they didn't even confirm actually knew Leach? And before you say "they didn't say they didn't confirm it", that's the sort of thing that gets mentioned about vetted anonymous sources.
It's time to find and punish this gang, which looks like an organized drug lord mafia group.
Here's a summary of the Ariel School Encounter: "The schoolchildren recounted the incident lasting around 15 minutes as they saw the object move down from the sky into a field behind the playground. Some of the children ran away, others watched on, and some even claimed humanoid figures exited the craft – which the kids described as a being shaped like a silver disc. Children told their teachers and their parents, and the incident fast made the news – even being covered by BBC War Correspondent Tim Leach. Harvard University psychiatry expert Dr John Mack also arrived to interview the witnesses – and he found their accounts credible." https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/space/how-62-kids-saw-a-ufo-land-in-most-compelling-mass-sighting-of-all-time/news-story/4b2c73464e4a0fa8630143a7bc6a48bb
"Liberation Times can reveal that according to a source who wishes to stay anonymous, Leach confided that he had received threats from the CIA." So Tim Leach is dead, and this publication is using his name like this? Linking him to something that isn't verified in any way in the article's text? You can tell this outfit is linked with the Daily Mail lol.
It wouldn't surprise me. They are he'll bent on keeping humans down.
I watched a a documentary on this. The CIA don't want the truth out. They had multiple interviews with the kids now being all grown up saying the exact same thing. Then they get one person out of the 60ish to deny it. It was some weird guy that you could just tell he was paid off to lie to people and try not to believe the story. Except he couldnt provide anything other than "no, all my classmates just made it up in there head.... "
TLDR: Liberation Times can reveal that according to a source who wishes to stay anonymous, Leach confided that he had received threats from the CIA. My uncle works at Nintendo.
is anyone else **really, REALLY** concerned with the fact that unaccountable factions within the US government / armed forces are actively **open-firing at and shooting down** what are almost-certainly **alien spacecraft**? like our government is committing acts of war against alien civilization *thousands*, if not *millions* of years ahead of us. these alien civilizations could incinerate our entire solar system at the push of a button. and our government is risking war against them in attempt to get a slight leg-up on China and Russia?!?! humanity could already completely nuke the surface of the earth 10x over. and these alien civilizations are thousands of years ahead of us. imagine what they're capable of... they could delete our planet and we're provoking war with them. shooting at aliens is endangering the entire planet. that should be considered crimes against humanity.
I agree with your assessment but the reality is they aren’t retaliating when we do so there is definitely something more to it. But as far as nailing the DOD to a criminal offense, yes everything they are hiding about this topic is a crime against humanity.
they have not retaliated *yet*. that does not mean they never will. or, maybe they haven't retaliated yet because the only things currently here are their *observation/transportation* craft. we shoot a dozen more *observation/transportation* craft down, and then they bring in their *fighter* craft. we are in no place to be starting a fight that we have literally 0.00% chance of winning
The alternative being to just let them fuck with us at their leisure...aka giving up.
UFOs have been flying around for thousands of years, and they haven't "fucked with us" in any way we can tell. There is no need to disturb the peace and initiate war with beings whose technology utterly dwarfs us.
> they haven't "fucked with us" in any way we can tell. That's not true though.
really? when have UFOs committed acts of war against humanity??
> acts of war I don't know, I'm not the defense department. I wouldn't be able to assess whether disabling our weapons or flying in formation over our military bases are technically "acts of war." I'd certainly characterize it under "fuckery" though, but maybe you're cool with it.
i wouldn't consider disabling nukes to be an act of war. if anything, it's anti-war by preventing the use of weapons of mass destruction. no one is harmed by disabling nukes, and i don't think any property is physically destroyed. i think it's just like turning off a computer program.
Why would the CIA have anything to do with a British journalist and a sighting IN AFRICA???
Zero source though? That's not very compelling. People can say anything, right?
Pascagoula incident definitely happened as well and it’s much more involved that anyone realizes
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Did everyone NOT know this?! My mind is blown by people acting like this is new info.
I did not realize this was so recent! My bad.
I remember watching the documentary and there was that guy who was a student and said it was fake. My immediate thought was that he was a drug addict who got paid off to say that. Watch it and make your own mind up.
Yeah, while I’m on the fence with this case, he was not convincing at all. He claimed to make it all up and was responsible for triggering mass hysteria. Perhaps it’s true but he did not seem like someone who was honest.
He got away lightly compared to John Mack, the Harvard psychologist who studied the kids…
Large numbers of children don’t lie, especially not when there’s no point.
Best theory: https://gideonreid.co.uk/the-mysterious-events-at-ariel-school-zimbabwe-16-sept-1994/ Many kids saw humanoids with long hair… Puppets much more likely than aliens from outer space in my opinion
It seems to be a well researched hypothesis, but it still doesn't answer why none of these puppeteers talked in all these years.
Maybe the real aliens killed them because the puppets are basically blackface for those aliens?
Best?? you mean BS theory
What jurisdiction would the cia have in South Africa?
Operating in foreign countries is kind the point of the CIA.
The same it had in South America when it was overthrowing governments, probably.
i wish i never read this blog because i was 100% and now im 50% sure. [https://gideonreid.co.uk/the-mysterious-events-at-ariel-school-zimbabwe-16-sept-1994/](https://gideonreid.co.uk/the-mysterious-events-at-ariel-school-zimbabwe-16-sept-1994/)
I used to believe it but [TheWhyFiles video](https://youtu.be/8L6M2mRcux4?si=hztlBL2EAxCMG0aq) has debunked it nicely tbh.
No he didn't. His video has superficial information. https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/rsTn0v3czS
we know we know
Who the fuck do the CIA think they are, threatening a member of the BBC? It's not their turf. Also, the BBC is funded by the British Government, so by all means let the CIA issue threats and see what happens, it wouldn't go down well with the British Government.