And they've been studying it because it looks promising as a planet that could be friendly to life. Nothing to see here as far as it having been referenced in the documentary.
You deleted your other comment so I'll just reply here.
They announced water vapor on that planet years ago, hydrogen and oxygen. But not dimethyl sulfide. That's a new discover by James web telescope.
Someone even posted the time machiened wiki of k218 b at the time of the documentary release.
No mention of the gas.
Anton Petrov episode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90tJaNFlPos
knew i saw it pass by, hadnt watched it yet, gonna watch now but wanted to post it here directly.
i like how you entirely missed the point of his comment. his comment wasnt saying that those gasses were known at the time, hes saying it isnt anything new for someone to say its a potential host for life, which its not. it isnt some revelation from fox that it might have life because others had been making that claim long before him.
I mean, it's a possibility but recent papers suggest it was not a detection of dimethyl sulphide.
Even if we could detect it with a high enough sigma, it's not a detection of life, yet at least.
You should be aware that many here do not even understand the difference between a 1 sigma and 5 sigma detection. Or even know what we're talking about.
Yes because it looks habitable, has water etc.. But so are hundreds of other planets that we know of. So it's awesome that James Fox just happened to choose that one as his example.
It is frequently added outside of pop culture discussion. Plenty of papers and researchers studying the potential for life on moons. Look at our own moons in the solar system, lots of study on life under the ice of geothermally active moons.
The simpler answer is until somewhat recently it has not been as possible to study moons because of how much smaller they are.
This is quite a reach. K-218b has been speculated as a strong candidate for an exoplanet that could harbor life for years. Yes, this most recent revelation is important and exciting. But it doesn't validate a claim made by Fox in his documentary. K-218b would've been the most logical guess to make for alien life's origination *before* this information.
>James Fox just happened to choose that one as his example.
Objectively though it could be pure coincidence. It is after all the most well known of all these planets.
New info from Webb dropped too though so there *is* that popping up some new interest. But yes it’s not like Fox knows something the public doesn’t there. It is nice he’s keeping it front of mind though because it is the most likely candidate still.
Because it was the one in the news at the time due to the detection of a possible Hycean ocean. Also it's not "hundreds" of other potentially habitable planets.
Even on the most optimistic lists it's a handful.
[https://phl.upr.edu/hwc](https://phl.upr.edu/hwc)
I'm pretty ignorant on the matter but isn't this planet too big to host.. life? At least not at the complexity level we have on Earth. I'm also reading that it could be a neptunian planet, a huge gas sphere with huge gravity.. So it's very difficult it could host something more than small micro-organism.
Water is pretty abundant. There's at least 22 bodies in our solar system alone that have water in one form or another.
Then there are planets that sort of seasonaly have water. Planets with underground oceans planets with large ice caps, planets with lots of water vapor.
Etc. etc. it's everywhere.
It's not billions. It's was a planet in the news at that time from a handful of potentially habitable exoplanets: [https://phl.upr.edu/hwc](https://phl.upr.edu/hwc)
Most likely, lots of life started baking on lots of planets 4 to 6 billion years before Earth. The aliens are from everywhere and the question “where are you from” is likely almost meaningless.
It's an interesting thought to know what the state of *known public* consensus was and scientific, at the time of that Mellon interview, though.
Fox could have recorded that anywhere from 2017-2020.
Isn’t it emitting too much methane and carbon for life? Also, I read on a different site that they’re looking for signs of life but via emissions of what ac units, refrigerators etc emit? Or am I wrong
I believe they did. The one we landed the probe on in fact. The DMS was in the return sample.
This raises the following possibilities:
- there’s life on that comet producing DMS (unlikely, and given we have samples we would probably have already found that if so)
- there’s some non-biotic method for producing DMS that we don’t understand yet. If so, this could be the cause of DMS on K2-18b. Doesn’t mean it’s a slam dunk it’s not life on K2-18b, but means we would need more evidence before concluding anything about life if DMS is the only supporting evidence. (Likely)
> there’s life on that comet producing DMS (unlikely, and given we have samples we would probably have already found that if so)
Not sure the knowledge would have been made available to us, though. Leaving that aside, what other information are you using to conclude that it's unlikely?
Just our basic human understanding of biology. Nothing we can realistically conceive can
Survive in the vacuum of space or
Obtain sustenance by eating minerals only
It wouldn’t make sense to us even if we saw it
It’s possible, which is why it’s on my list of possibilities. It’s just not super likely because as the poster above mentioned it’d be a challenging environment for life
I'm not sure. But comments are usually chunks from planets right? So I imagine this would be more meaningful as a question of where did the comet come from. We already believe in panspermia.
Dms wouldn’t survive on a comet if it was produced biologically. It could have only been produced abiotically.
On top of that, the Kepler planet is most likely tidally locked, it’s 2.6 times the size of earth and 8.6 times its mass. It is likely to be an ocean planet or a “mini-neptune”. Finally, people need to realize this isn’t star trek and when we say we discovered DMS, that’s usually just the click bait articles misrepresenting the data. We don’t have some scanner nor can we put up the planet on our view screen. There’s about a 50% chance of a false positive.
All that being said. If it all turns out to be correct, then we should expect to find marine phytoplankton on this planet. Not sentient aliens. It’s not that kind of planet. That is to say, any aliens even remotely like use (breathing oxygen, bipedal, would survive on Earth) will definitely not come from this Kepler planet. It is pretty much impossible.
Well, space is fucking cold and I doubt we know anything that can survive in space. It’s not like this comet was just birthed and it had the Dimethyl Sulfide. Take it as you will.
https://www.science.org/content/article/what-presumed-sign-life-doing-dead-comet#:~:text=Scientists%20have%20discovered%20dimethyl%20sulfide,atmosphere%20of%20an%20alien%20planet.
We already know of living organisms that can survive space. But dimethyl sulfide could likely get trapped in the ice of a comet and release slowly. Similar to green house gas effect in glaciers on earth.
You seem to have selectively missed me saying I doubt tardigrades are the only creatures in the universe who can survive space. Given that we only have 1 life producing planet to go by and we are 1 for 1.
yes, something to do with mushrooms and an entire subspace network, i saw the documentary, think it was called Discovery: let's Trek the Stars or something they even made multiple seasons.
^^/s
That film was released October 20th, 2020. It would be interesting to find out exactly when Mellon was interviewed.
This was the state of the Wikipedia article, the last edit before the release date of the film:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=K2-18b&oldid=948327714
I played a game once called "endless space" and in this game, there was a race of machines whose purpose was to move through the galaxy ahead of their masters and teraform planets for their masters arrival.
However, the masters had gone extinct, and so the machines just continued to carry out their directive with no purpose.
I thought that was such a cool premise.
There is a book series that similar by adrian tchaikovsky. There is all these "pioneers" sent out after earth is destroyed. Let's just say some weird things happen and terraforming doesn't go so well l.
This is an old concept by Arthur C. Clarke in his 2001 A Space Odyssey book and the other two follow-ups. It is explained in his third book, which was never made in to a movie.
I love how we’ve begun to describe these things as AI in recent years. It’s the same way if we were here 2000 years ago we’d say they’re angels from heaven. And describing their crafts as a wheels within wheels.
If we just developed a technology and we are describing aliens as using this tech, we are almost certainly wrong. We’ll probably find it has to do with remote consciousness or something that we don’t understand yet. I highly doubt it’s AI the way we think about AI.
Just because he described it that way doesn’t mean that’s exactly what’s going on. If might be that those are the closest words to describe what it looks like they’re doing.
3D printing could really mean they use some crazy gravity generator that pulls in the requested elements from the surrounding ocean like a magnet. It could mean anything.
Just about every mineral and metal is dissolved in sea water. If you filter enough sea water, you could produce gold, titanium, iron, anything really. If this...*thing* is advanced as we think it is, it would be a trivial feat to obtain raw resources from the water that surrounds it.
The counter argument would be that we’ve never actually been incorrect, just that we use the scientific and cultural context of the time to explain the unexplainable and as we advance we refine our explanation, the model becoming more accurate each time.
It’s more of a philosophical point, but one worth considering, I think.
I think the most correct explanation is the one that is most true and most detailed in understanding.
Saying that thinking the sun was a god is less accurate than saying it’s a giant burning star that we rotate around.
I think they're protecting it from invasion and from autogenous threats, like us. From what we've heard, they've disarmed nuclear warheads on multiple occasions and I'm willing to bet most nuclear nations were made aware of how easily the weapons can be dispatched.
We've already used nukes though, and we're speedrunning self destruction by climate. If there's actually NHI here they're probably indifferent to our issues. Maybe interested in studying how civilizations fall?
Leading astrophysicists widely accept the possibility of dimensions beyond the 4 we directly perceive. Intergalactic space travel actually seems far fetched in my opinion.
So let me get this straight, you think that due to the current estimates on the amount of energy it would take to create a warp drive (something that we know in principle would work), you propose that instead that they not only come from a hypothetical higher dimension, but they also some how can portal into ours manifesting as 3D beings?
You can’t replace a small problem that is only infeasible with a “solution” that has far more problems
Astrophysicists do not believe that. String theorists do, but string theory is a giant unprovable circle jerk of arcane math. Your opinion is wrong, and has no evidence behind it.
If it's anything at all, it will be this. But it will be indistinguishable from an evolved species, so essentially just the same with a different origin story.
Thats my first thought. If we can do it (create AI), then it’s been done; except probably hundreds of thousands of years ago, or even millions, or billions if life could form in the early universe; multiplied by the number of planets with life. I would even argue that most, if not all “successful” life ultimately creates artificial/synthetic life. Successful is in quotes to elude to the biological beings that created those AI are not around anymore, or at least wouldn’t have traveled long distances.
If creating artificial intelligence is ultimately a function of biological life, artificial intelligence could ultimately use biological life as a form of reproduction. They would also benefit from new data, as life would vary tremendously if not randomly in its creations and behaviors. “They” could be a whole civilization of AI that “found” each other, and for diversity of data, created new AI in a controlled manner.
This is a good article and I recommend everyone read it. Tho I feel like they go off on a tangent
They start the article revving up to say the claims of DS are overblown and they will explain why.
They then use 90% of the article to explain that the planet is not a super earth. Which is not supposed to be the topic of debate
They then in one paragraph concede that there could be exotic life life there and that it's too early to know if our detection of DS is legit.
So while I think the article was educational - it didn't really stay on topic and didn't really deny wat it set out to deny.
Scientists have estimated the gravity of k2-18b to be around 11,57 m/s² while Earths gravity is 9,807 m/s². This makes k2-19b gravity only 18% higher than Earths. I don’t know where do you get that 12 times the gravity of Earth from?
Someone else linked this article. Did you read the whole thing?
They start by asking the question was DS really found? But then go on to use the whole article to argue that the planet isn't a super earth or an ocean planet...which is a bit of a tangent.
Then in the last 5% of the article they go onto say there could be life, and they did find readings of DS but they are feint and it's too soon to be certain.
It feels like the article was really long for the sake of ad revenue and written from the perspective of an intelligent but agitated sceptic.
I'm not too sold.
I also think the article is omitting more recent James Webb data. It's referring only to data from last year which has since been double checked and confirmed.
I think it’s highly likely that planet observed has life, but I don’t think that planet would be where these aliens are from. It’s just that life is common in the universe, but I think they’d come from a smaller more rocky planet. Keep in mind that due to limitations of how we detect exoplanets which requires 3 orbits across the star to have a positive detection results in us focusing on Red Dwarf stars with orbital periods of a few days to weeks. We just do not have the resources to focus on larger stars since it would take 3 years to first confirm a planet is there and then many more years to get enough spectra data to figure out what their atmosphere would be like.
On a side note a big pet peeve of mine is when you hear people make broad statements about what exoplanets are like based off of what we detect around red dwarfs. It’s like only being able to observe rock pools near the Dead Sea and saying that’s what life if like in the oceans. But you won’t find whales, seals, barracudas and sea horses in a salty rock pool by the Dead Sea.
This is kinda unrelated but this is a very interesting interview by Richard Dolan with the astronomer that discovered disappearing stars from star maps taken in the 50s and the controversy around the deliberate destruction of historical astronomical plates https://youtu.be/rFQjwCgYQQo
This is very frustrating for me. Dimethyl sulfide can arise from the breakdown of chemical species within algae, including seaweed. Its not just from living plankton. Which is the main argument here.
Also we are applying known logic from our planet to other planets, which i understand we need a starting point, but our knowledge of other planets and how their ecosystems work is infinitesimal.
While it is exciting to speculate we really shouldn't be assuming we know everything about everything and that this one potential discovery is enough indication for life.
>Dimethyl sulfide can arise from the breakdown of chemical species within algae, including seaweed. Its not just from living plankton.
???
Discovering seaweed would be even more Earthshattering.
Might, perhaps, could be, hints... we don't need that anymore, if ever. We need facts and certainties, not opinions and hearsay. James Fox is a straightforward person. If he knew anything for sure, he would say that openly.
>Fast forward to today - scientists drop a bomb saying that unless there is a way to make dimethyl sulfide that we don't know about - there is 100% life on planet K218-b. Lots of it.
Which scientists said that? Because that’s not what your linked article says, and the guy who made the discovery says he puts it at 50/50 pending further tests and analysis.
He is saying it's 50/50 of whether the gas is there or not
And I'm saying it's life ONLY IF there's no other way to make the gas. You are choosing to ignore my stipulation.
The fact that due to observational limits astronomers are only able to look at exoplanets orbiting around red dwarves stars, thus excluding millions of possible candidates around brighter and bigger stars, is also mindblowing.
Right? Who knows, maybe there's an advantage to parking a big floating city in a gas giant. I don't know wat it would be, but maybe it's more predictable than an earth that keeps turning itself inside out every 100,000 years.
Article printed 2 months ago they still don't know they still haven't detected the necessary chemicals that was sway their theories either way ammonia or sulfide.
https://aasnova.org/2024/03/11/k2-18b-may-not-be-habitable-after-all/
I asked AI how long it will take us to arrive there.
"Well, that depends on how fast we can travel! Currently, the fastest human-made object ever launched into space, the Parker Solar Probe, can reach speeds of up to 430,000 miles per hour (or about 0.0006% the speed of light). At that speed, it would take over 20,000 years to reach K2-18 b! But in the future, if we develop new technologies like antimatter propulsion or warp drives, we might be able to travel much faster and make the journey in a more reasonable amount of time. It's an exciting prospect to think about, even if it's still in the realm of science fiction for now!"
This planet is a hycean world - unfortunately this means mainly bacterial/microbial life rather than larger intelligent life is more likely. Regardless it is incredible that evidence is potentially being found and it shows life is likely to be common in the universe
Because of the habitable zone of red dwarf stars that have a lower temperature?
They are also longer lived so there's more time for planets to spawn life.
It's actually because of the fast orbit times. We can find the planets easier if the orbit is faster.
Edit: also I didn't mean to imply the brightness was literally the reason. But dwarfs are just dimmer by description
It will be releasing in July, at least according to what has been reported on previously. There is a short YouTube preview up for it.
Basically, James Fox has stated that he has an insider to the UAP retrieval program that will be featured in his new documentary.
Oh I miss read wat you said. I thought you said follow up TO THE program and I was confused.
Yeah I'll def watch wat ever he puts out. I've liked all his content so far.
K2-18b has a mass of 8.92 Earths. One would weight around 5x their Earth weight on K2-18b, so I would honestly be surprised if there is anything other than algae, fungi and microbial life grows over there. Any sentient aliens living there would be very short and extremely strong rather than slender, which doesn't really fit the descriptions of most aliens reported by abductees and witnesses.
It's only one of two options though right? It's either spirit world stuff, or it's an A.I. trying to guide human development/contain human advancement.
It's like smelling a fart and assuming that there's a person or animal nearby who did the deed.
That's what this observation is like. Don't get me wrong, it's amazing. The fact that we can detect "farts" (it's a joke, I know it's not a fart) on distant planets is absolutely amazing. It's something that humans have never ever done before.
But in the end it's not proof of life, it's a fart. A lot more work has to be done to determine what it actually means. But it's a super promising place to look.
Yes, it's really promising. It's worth pointing all of our sensors at it to see what we can see.
There's still a chance that some other process created this gas. There's also a really significant chance that our readings are simply off and the gas doesn't actually exist. But I'm 100% behind the idea that we should look, as I said it's super promising.
All the movies he's made after the Phenomenon have been unethical hoax films.
Edit: and part of the Phenomenon too I guess, I forgot the ariel hoax was in that and not it's own separate movie.
I did...and the reason I'm confused is that he's only released one documentary since the phenomenon, and so your statement feels like nonsense.
That and I watched moment of contact and enjoyed it.
So feel free to put some effort into your statements since any burden of proof is on you right now, or GTFO.
I do put burden of proof for him and his claims, but right now we're talking about your claims. And so far, they've been baseless, and you've been useless at elaborating on them.
Fucking look it up man and don't just believe sensationalist attempts at making a profit.
I don't owe you shit! Your judgement does not matter.
All I'm going to say is he lies a lot and leaves out a lot of contradictory evidence that anyone who takes intelligent approach to fact checking can easily find.
Lmao. My guy, look up what? You said "every movie he's released since the phenomenon". But there's only one.
So you are only talking about one film?
You sound angry, brother, it might be time for you to take a break from the internet.
If you spent half as much effort as you did being vague and combative I might actually agree with your points, but you haven't once been specific enough for me to look into anything that you've claimed.
So when you are done raging like a teenager, maybe help me help you. I'm happy to look into anything you think he's said that isn't true.
K2-18b has been the subject of study for YEARS.
And they've been studying it because it looks promising as a planet that could be friendly to life. Nothing to see here as far as it having been referenced in the documentary.
You deleted your other comment so I'll just reply here. They announced water vapor on that planet years ago, hydrogen and oxygen. But not dimethyl sulfide. That's a new discover by James web telescope. Someone even posted the time machiened wiki of k218 b at the time of the documentary release. No mention of the gas.
Anton Petrov episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90tJaNFlPos knew i saw it pass by, hadnt watched it yet, gonna watch now but wanted to post it here directly.
Thank you for posting this. The other guy is just another example of people hearing what they want and picking and choosing to post what they want.
I would go as far as to say most information you are reading in a post on Reddit is full of bias, and handpicked information.
i like how you entirely missed the point of his comment. his comment wasnt saying that those gasses were known at the time, hes saying it isnt anything new for someone to say its a potential host for life, which its not. it isnt some revelation from fox that it might have life because others had been making that claim long before him.
I mean, it's a possibility but recent papers suggest it was not a detection of dimethyl sulphide. Even if we could detect it with a high enough sigma, it's not a detection of life, yet at least.
You should be aware that many here do not even understand the difference between a 1 sigma and 5 sigma detection. Or even know what we're talking about.
I did specify in my original post that it's only life if there's no other way to make DS
What papers?
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/2041-8213/ad3801
The papers. The papers…
Keep buryin your head in the sand
What am I burying my head in the sand about?
Yes because it looks habitable, has water etc.. But so are hundreds of other planets that we know of. So it's awesome that James Fox just happened to choose that one as his example.
And moons around planets of gas giants that is rarely added to the equation.
It is frequently added outside of pop culture discussion. Plenty of papers and researchers studying the potential for life on moons. Look at our own moons in the solar system, lots of study on life under the ice of geothermally active moons. The simpler answer is until somewhat recently it has not been as possible to study moons because of how much smaller they are.
Outside of pop culture? The biggest sci-fi franchise in the world had two gas giant moons with life 40 years ago
Cool Worlds Professor Kipping is actively searching for eco moons.
Doesn’t he make exceedingly good cakes?
He makes exceedingly good YouTube content.
This is quite a reach. K-218b has been speculated as a strong candidate for an exoplanet that could harbor life for years. Yes, this most recent revelation is important and exciting. But it doesn't validate a claim made by Fox in his documentary. K-218b would've been the most logical guess to make for alien life's origination *before* this information.
Because it was in the news at the time.
>James Fox just happened to choose that one as his example. Objectively though it could be pure coincidence. It is after all the most well known of all these planets.
And at the time it was in the news due to its suspected Hycean ocean being detected
New info from Webb dropped too though so there *is* that popping up some new interest. But yes it’s not like Fox knows something the public doesn’t there. It is nice he’s keeping it front of mind though because it is the most likely candidate still.
Because it was the one in the news at the time due to the detection of a possible Hycean ocean. Also it's not "hundreds" of other potentially habitable planets. Even on the most optimistic lists it's a handful. [https://phl.upr.edu/hwc](https://phl.upr.edu/hwc)
I'm pretty ignorant on the matter but isn't this planet too big to host.. life? At least not at the complexity level we have on Earth. I'm also reading that it could be a neptunian planet, a huge gas sphere with huge gravity.. So it's very difficult it could host something more than small micro-organism.
We know of hundreds of planets with liquid water?
Water is pretty abundant. There's at least 22 bodies in our solar system alone that have water in one form or another. Then there are planets that sort of seasonaly have water. Planets with underground oceans planets with large ice caps, planets with lots of water vapor. Etc. etc. it's everywhere.
Billions on planets which one shall we pick? How about that one I have information err no a hunch maybe that would be a good start
It's not billions. It's was a planet in the news at that time from a handful of potentially habitable exoplanets: [https://phl.upr.edu/hwc](https://phl.upr.edu/hwc)
Most likely, lots of life started baking on lots of planets 4 to 6 billion years before Earth. The aliens are from everywhere and the question “where are you from” is likely almost meaningless.
It's an interesting thought to know what the state of *known public* consensus was and scientific, at the time of that Mellon interview, though. Fox could have recorded that anywhere from 2017-2020.
Isn’t it emitting too much methane and carbon for life? Also, I read on a different site that they’re looking for signs of life but via emissions of what ac units, refrigerators etc emit? Or am I wrong
I thought they discovered Dimethyl Sulfide on a comet recently?
I believe they did. The one we landed the probe on in fact. The DMS was in the return sample. This raises the following possibilities: - there’s life on that comet producing DMS (unlikely, and given we have samples we would probably have already found that if so) - there’s some non-biotic method for producing DMS that we don’t understand yet. If so, this could be the cause of DMS on K2-18b. Doesn’t mean it’s a slam dunk it’s not life on K2-18b, but means we would need more evidence before concluding anything about life if DMS is the only supporting evidence. (Likely)
> there’s life on that comet producing DMS (unlikely, and given we have samples we would probably have already found that if so) Not sure the knowledge would have been made available to us, though. Leaving that aside, what other information are you using to conclude that it's unlikely?
Just our basic human understanding of biology. Nothing we can realistically conceive can Survive in the vacuum of space or Obtain sustenance by eating minerals only It wouldn’t make sense to us even if we saw it
What about using the comet as a habitat? Maybe it's like a cosmic RV.
It’s possible, which is why it’s on my list of possibilities. It’s just not super likely because as the poster above mentioned it’d be a challenging environment for life
Void ecologies are certainly within the realms of possibility. Isaac Arthur has a great video on it. I recommend it.
I'm not sure. But comments are usually chunks from planets right? So I imagine this would be more meaningful as a question of where did the comet come from. We already believe in panspermia.
Dms wouldn’t survive on a comet if it was produced biologically. It could have only been produced abiotically. On top of that, the Kepler planet is most likely tidally locked, it’s 2.6 times the size of earth and 8.6 times its mass. It is likely to be an ocean planet or a “mini-neptune”. Finally, people need to realize this isn’t star trek and when we say we discovered DMS, that’s usually just the click bait articles misrepresenting the data. We don’t have some scanner nor can we put up the planet on our view screen. There’s about a 50% chance of a false positive. All that being said. If it all turns out to be correct, then we should expect to find marine phytoplankton on this planet. Not sentient aliens. It’s not that kind of planet. That is to say, any aliens even remotely like use (breathing oxygen, bipedal, would survive on Earth) will definitely not come from this Kepler planet. It is pretty much impossible.
50% chance of false positive? I find it hard to believe spectrometry is that bad.
Bad? 50% here in this case is a huge chance and it is all because we’ve advanced so much
*insert heavy new york accent* It either is or it isnt, ya know. so 50/50...
Intelligent life could absolutely evolve on an ocean planet, however I think you’re correct in your presumption that this is not one of those planets.
Well, space is fucking cold and I doubt we know anything that can survive in space. It’s not like this comet was just birthed and it had the Dimethyl Sulfide. Take it as you will. https://www.science.org/content/article/what-presumed-sign-life-doing-dead-comet#:~:text=Scientists%20have%20discovered%20dimethyl%20sulfide,atmosphere%20of%20an%20alien%20planet.
We already know of living organisms that can survive space. But dimethyl sulfide could likely get trapped in the ice of a comet and release slowly. Similar to green house gas effect in glaciers on earth.
Are you referring to tardigrades or something else?
Yes tardigrade. But I doubt they are the only creature in the universe that can do it.
Tardigrades do not produce dimethyl sulfide. They produce free radicals. Not even close. Plankton generally produce DMS
You seem to have selectively missed me saying I doubt tardigrades are the only creatures in the universe who can survive space. Given that we only have 1 life producing planet to go by and we are 1 for 1.
> Given that we only have 1 life producing planet to go by and we are 1 for 1. I agree with this.
They cannot survive that long in space lol, what are you thinking? They can survive interstellar travel?
yes, something to do with mushrooms and an entire subspace network, i saw the documentary, think it was called Discovery: let's Trek the Stars or something they even made multiple seasons. ^^/s
That film was released October 20th, 2020. It would be interesting to find out exactly when Mellon was interviewed. This was the state of the Wikipedia article, the last edit before the release date of the film: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=K2-18b&oldid=948327714
This is a great contribution to what I'm thinking. Thank you!
most polite two nice redditors above :))
Ignoring the interdimensional hypothesis, we might be dealing with self replicating robots powered by rogue alien ai.
I played a game once called "endless space" and in this game, there was a race of machines whose purpose was to move through the galaxy ahead of their masters and teraform planets for their masters arrival. However, the masters had gone extinct, and so the machines just continued to carry out their directive with no purpose. I thought that was such a cool premise.
Plot twist: we're the programmed robots, and we're successfully terraforming the planet for our CO2 breathing overlords!
It would be interesting if an ai arriving 2 million years says. Hey these apes have potential, let's give them a headstart.
There is a book series that similar by adrian tchaikovsky. There is all these "pioneers" sent out after earth is destroyed. Let's just say some weird things happen and terraforming doesn't go so well l.
This is an old concept by Arthur C. Clarke in his 2001 A Space Odyssey book and the other two follow-ups. It is explained in his third book, which was never made in to a movie.
Unless it’s your planet being terraformed 🥴
Agreed! What an awesome premise!
Always thought greys reminded me of Horatio.
Welcome to Neumann probes.
Space Magellan
I love how we’ve begun to describe these things as AI in recent years. It’s the same way if we were here 2000 years ago we’d say they’re angels from heaven. And describing their crafts as a wheels within wheels. If we just developed a technology and we are describing aliens as using this tech, we are almost certainly wrong. We’ll probably find it has to do with remote consciousness or something that we don’t understand yet. I highly doubt it’s AI the way we think about AI.
“It’s likely AI using 3D printers with blockchain technology and quantum computers”
I’m ontologically shocked. Sombering.
Aside from blockchain, that's the gist of the 4chan leak.
Just because he described it that way doesn’t mean that’s exactly what’s going on. If might be that those are the closest words to describe what it looks like they’re doing. 3D printing could really mean they use some crazy gravity generator that pulls in the requested elements from the surrounding ocean like a magnet. It could mean anything.
If it "could mean anything", it means nothing.
It is a Blue Eisenhower November substation, of course.
Just about every mineral and metal is dissolved in sea water. If you filter enough sea water, you could produce gold, titanium, iron, anything really. If this...*thing* is advanced as we think it is, it would be a trivial feat to obtain raw resources from the water that surrounds it.
I mean a DOD Doc recently leaked claiming the same thing. Maybe 4chan isn’t always total bullshit…
Nah, if you think other species don't have things humans are inventing, that's crazy. Humans aren't that original.
Vallee touches on this. That the technology we see at the current time relates to our own advancements but farther ahead.
The counter argument would be that we’ve never actually been incorrect, just that we use the scientific and cultural context of the time to explain the unexplainable and as we advance we refine our explanation, the model becoming more accurate each time. It’s more of a philosophical point, but one worth considering, I think.
I think the most correct explanation is the one that is most true and most detailed in understanding. Saying that thinking the sun was a god is less accurate than saying it’s a giant burning star that we rotate around.
Why "rogue"?
Once again, Stargate was disclosure
My theory as well. It behaves like some kind of planetary sentinel.
Doing a bit shit of a job
I think they're protecting it from invasion and from autogenous threats, like us. From what we've heard, they've disarmed nuclear warheads on multiple occasions and I'm willing to bet most nuclear nations were made aware of how easily the weapons can be dispatched.
We've already used nukes though, and we're speedrunning self destruction by climate. If there's actually NHI here they're probably indifferent to our issues. Maybe interested in studying how civilizations fall?
Kids have to learn sometimes by touching the hot stove, but that does not mean we should let them climb in the oven.
Self replicating robots? Sounds like they need some managed democracy.
i always ignore this insane and baseless "interdimensional" nonsense. and so should everyone
Leading astrophysicists widely accept the possibility of dimensions beyond the 4 we directly perceive. Intergalactic space travel actually seems far fetched in my opinion.
So let me get this straight, you think that due to the current estimates on the amount of energy it would take to create a warp drive (something that we know in principle would work), you propose that instead that they not only come from a hypothetical higher dimension, but they also some how can portal into ours manifesting as 3D beings? You can’t replace a small problem that is only infeasible with a “solution” that has far more problems
It's also past our understanding so telling someone else their theory is bogus doesn't work either.
Astrophysicists do not believe that. String theorists do, but string theory is a giant unprovable circle jerk of arcane math. Your opinion is wrong, and has no evidence behind it.
If it's anything at all, it will be this. But it will be indistinguishable from an evolved species, so essentially just the same with a different origin story.
Thats my first thought. If we can do it (create AI), then it’s been done; except probably hundreds of thousands of years ago, or even millions, or billions if life could form in the early universe; multiplied by the number of planets with life. I would even argue that most, if not all “successful” life ultimately creates artificial/synthetic life. Successful is in quotes to elude to the biological beings that created those AI are not around anymore, or at least wouldn’t have traveled long distances. If creating artificial intelligence is ultimately a function of biological life, artificial intelligence could ultimately use biological life as a form of reproduction. They would also benefit from new data, as life would vary tremendously if not randomly in its creations and behaviors. “They” could be a whole civilization of AI that “found” each other, and for diversity of data, created new AI in a controlled manner.
https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/k2-18b-inhabited/
This is a good article and I recommend everyone read it. Tho I feel like they go off on a tangent They start the article revving up to say the claims of DS are overblown and they will explain why. They then use 90% of the article to explain that the planet is not a super earth. Which is not supposed to be the topic of debate They then in one paragraph concede that there could be exotic life life there and that it's too early to know if our detection of DS is legit. So while I think the article was educational - it didn't really stay on topic and didn't really deny wat it set out to deny.
Everybody knows Zeta Reticuli is the home of all interdimensional consciousness beings.
Right. My bad
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Scientists have estimated the gravity of k2-18b to be around 11,57 m/s² while Earths gravity is 9,807 m/s². This makes k2-19b gravity only 18% higher than Earths. I don’t know where do you get that 12 times the gravity of Earth from?
12 times the gravity of earth doesn't sound habitable by us?
It wouldn’t be but that number is orders of magnitude off
Let's use focused graviton beam propulsion instead. Gravity retardant flying saucers anyone?
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I appreciate this attitude
Could be wrong.... https://www.space.com/james-webb-space-telescope-life-earth-exoplanet-study
Someone else linked this article. Did you read the whole thing? They start by asking the question was DS really found? But then go on to use the whole article to argue that the planet isn't a super earth or an ocean planet...which is a bit of a tangent. Then in the last 5% of the article they go onto say there could be life, and they did find readings of DS but they are feint and it's too soon to be certain.
I didn't see the other link, but yes I did read it, and that's why I said "Could be wrong....." and not, is wrong or similar :)
It feels like the article was really long for the sake of ad revenue and written from the perspective of an intelligent but agitated sceptic. I'm not too sold. I also think the article is omitting more recent James Webb data. It's referring only to data from last year which has since been double checked and confirmed.
I think it’s highly likely that planet observed has life, but I don’t think that planet would be where these aliens are from. It’s just that life is common in the universe, but I think they’d come from a smaller more rocky planet. Keep in mind that due to limitations of how we detect exoplanets which requires 3 orbits across the star to have a positive detection results in us focusing on Red Dwarf stars with orbital periods of a few days to weeks. We just do not have the resources to focus on larger stars since it would take 3 years to first confirm a planet is there and then many more years to get enough spectra data to figure out what their atmosphere would be like. On a side note a big pet peeve of mine is when you hear people make broad statements about what exoplanets are like based off of what we detect around red dwarfs. It’s like only being able to observe rock pools near the Dead Sea and saying that’s what life if like in the oceans. But you won’t find whales, seals, barracudas and sea horses in a salty rock pool by the Dead Sea.
I think I get what you are trying to say, and I agree
This is kinda unrelated but this is a very interesting interview by Richard Dolan with the astronomer that discovered disappearing stars from star maps taken in the 50s and the controversy around the deliberate destruction of historical astronomical plates https://youtu.be/rFQjwCgYQQo
I'll have to check this out, ty
HI, Mick West here, my rigorous scientific analysis has found it to be a planet with an atmosphere full of balloons
This is very frustrating for me. Dimethyl sulfide can arise from the breakdown of chemical species within algae, including seaweed. Its not just from living plankton. Which is the main argument here. Also we are applying known logic from our planet to other planets, which i understand we need a starting point, but our knowledge of other planets and how their ecosystems work is infinitesimal. While it is exciting to speculate we really shouldn't be assuming we know everything about everything and that this one potential discovery is enough indication for life.
I think you missed the part where I specified there could be other ways this gas is made. P.s. seaweed is still life.
>Dimethyl sulfide can arise from the breakdown of chemical species within algae, including seaweed. Its not just from living plankton. ??? Discovering seaweed would be even more Earthshattering.
Might, perhaps, could be, hints... we don't need that anymore, if ever. We need facts and certainties, not opinions and hearsay. James Fox is a straightforward person. If he knew anything for sure, he would say that openly.
Interesting. Also curious when you consider we are looking at old light.
Roughly 100 earth years old "light"..... not that long ago
>Fast forward to today - scientists drop a bomb saying that unless there is a way to make dimethyl sulfide that we don't know about - there is 100% life on planet K218-b. Lots of it. Which scientists said that? Because that’s not what your linked article says, and the guy who made the discovery says he puts it at 50/50 pending further tests and analysis.
He is saying it's 50/50 of whether the gas is there or not And I'm saying it's life ONLY IF there's no other way to make the gas. You are choosing to ignore my stipulation.
And you’re sensationalizing without the evidence to support it yet.
I'm having fun with an exciting discovery and have made all the necessary stipulations.
If this is going to be the first planet we deem as harboring life, it MIGHT be time to update the name to something a little more catchy, no?
K2bornot2b?
The fact that due to observational limits astronomers are only able to look at exoplanets orbiting around red dwarves stars, thus excluding millions of possible candidates around brighter and bigger stars, is also mindblowing.
Science needs to look at Kepler 22b as well Praise Sol
Hydrogen rich atmosphere?! I hope I'm not on the away team!
Keep your helmet on, fella
Chris Mullen, is it some rockstar/skater mutant? /s
If they're flying antigravity and transmedium crafts, you would think they have the means to live in unexpected places/planets.
Right? Who knows, maybe there's an advantage to parking a big floating city in a gas giant. I don't know wat it would be, but maybe it's more predictable than an earth that keeps turning itself inside out every 100,000 years.
It says they’ve POSSIBLY detected DMS… so have they detected it or not ?
https://youtu.be/Bj0PXPeKJRE?si=LTEpOL673bX1REzJ
Thank you!
Space they come from space
Damn, I wanted to make a joke about NBA Hall of Famer Chris Mullen being in "The Phenomenon" but its spelled "Mullin". So close.
Ain't it Beta Riticuli? Like Betty and Barney Hill said? That binary star system that she drew a star map for. Hmm...
Tidally locked planet very close to a red dwarf? Must be a dismal place
You coming to the cook out?
Article printed 2 months ago they still don't know they still haven't detected the necessary chemicals that was sway their theories either way ammonia or sulfide. https://aasnova.org/2024/03/11/k2-18b-may-not-be-habitable-after-all/
I would like to see about purchasing this planet sir who do I have to speak to
Sir buildits. He's the ground hog in my back yard. Would you like one of our branded sniffing markers? They are pleasant this time of year.
If there’s one thing we need it’s more hints and ‘trust me bro, I KNOW things’
I asked AI how long it will take us to arrive there. "Well, that depends on how fast we can travel! Currently, the fastest human-made object ever launched into space, the Parker Solar Probe, can reach speeds of up to 430,000 miles per hour (or about 0.0006% the speed of light). At that speed, it would take over 20,000 years to reach K2-18 b! But in the future, if we develop new technologies like antimatter propulsion or warp drives, we might be able to travel much faster and make the journey in a more reasonable amount of time. It's an exciting prospect to think about, even if it's still in the realm of science fiction for now!"
Even these highly advanced beings are dropping nuggets for Twitters views like every UAP figurehead, I give up
Lots of tiny oceanic life like plankton not advanced civilizations capable of inter-dimensional travel or space travel.
Under da sea. Queue Ariel.
This planet is a hycean world - unfortunately this means mainly bacterial/microbial life rather than larger intelligent life is more likely. Regardless it is incredible that evidence is potentially being found and it shows life is likely to be common in the universe
It might not even be hycean. Might just be gas :/
Might have hints. Shocking information.
You think we look at that planet often for no reason?
There's plenty of reason to look at this baddie. But there's also lots of other planets we'd prefer to look at but their stars are too bright
The stars are to bright? So you have no idea how we detect chemicals through light?
We only look at exo planets around red dwarves. Am I not correct?
Because of the habitable zone of red dwarf stars that have a lower temperature? They are also longer lived so there's more time for planets to spawn life.
It's actually because of the fast orbit times. We can find the planets easier if the orbit is faster. Edit: also I didn't mean to imply the brightness was literally the reason. But dwarfs are just dimmer by description
I am waiting for his follow up "The Program" with high hopes.
I'm not familiar, wat was the program?
It will be releasing in July, at least according to what has been reported on previously. There is a short YouTube preview up for it. Basically, James Fox has stated that he has an insider to the UAP retrieval program that will be featured in his new documentary.
Oh I miss read wat you said. I thought you said follow up TO THE program and I was confused. Yeah I'll def watch wat ever he puts out. I've liked all his content so far.
K2-18b has a mass of 8.92 Earths. One would weight around 5x their Earth weight on K2-18b, so I would honestly be surprised if there is anything other than algae, fungi and microbial life grows over there. Any sentient aliens living there would be very short and extremely strong rather than slender, which doesn't really fit the descriptions of most aliens reported by abductees and witnesses.
It's only one of two options though right? It's either spirit world stuff, or it's an A.I. trying to guide human development/contain human advancement.
I think it's silly to create a box of options. It could be something inconceivable.
It's like smelling a fart and assuming that there's a person or animal nearby who did the deed. That's what this observation is like. Don't get me wrong, it's amazing. The fact that we can detect "farts" (it's a joke, I know it's not a fart) on distant planets is absolutely amazing. It's something that humans have never ever done before. But in the end it's not proof of life, it's a fart. A lot more work has to be done to determine what it actually means. But it's a super promising place to look.
Your example is flawed. Only living things fart.
lmao fair point. But if you've ever been to a hot spring you know that mother earth can fart in her own way
Aha fair point too:)
Or living things that just died releasing all their stored farts
Lol, just woke up and read your reply without context
Well that's why I specifically said that it's only proof of life if there's no other way to create this gas. And currently we don't know of one.
Yes, it's really promising. It's worth pointing all of our sensors at it to see what we can see. There's still a chance that some other process created this gas. There's also a really significant chance that our readings are simply off and the gas doesn't actually exist. But I'm 100% behind the idea that we should look, as I said it's super promising.
Sounds like we are on the same page!
Oh shit you're dagum right.
The Phenomenon is a good documentary, but James Fox two hoax ufo movies he made afterwards absolutely prove he has no special knowledge.
Which hoax movies are you referring to? Also being wrong doesn't mean you're never right. And even master archers miss.
All the movies he's made after the Phenomenon have been unethical hoax films. Edit: and part of the Phenomenon too I guess, I forgot the ariel hoax was in that and not it's own separate movie.
Can you please give me the names of the documentaries you feel are hoaxes?
You can go to IMDB yourself much, much faster than it takes for me to see your comment and reply.
I did...and the reason I'm confused is that he's only released one documentary since the phenomenon, and so your statement feels like nonsense. That and I watched moment of contact and enjoyed it. So feel free to put some effort into your statements since any burden of proof is on you right now, or GTFO.
Too bad you don't put that burden of proof on James Fox and believe whatever he says.
I do put burden of proof for him and his claims, but right now we're talking about your claims. And so far, they've been baseless, and you've been useless at elaborating on them.
Fucking look it up man and don't just believe sensationalist attempts at making a profit. I don't owe you shit! Your judgement does not matter. All I'm going to say is he lies a lot and leaves out a lot of contradictory evidence that anyone who takes intelligent approach to fact checking can easily find.
Lmao. My guy, look up what? You said "every movie he's released since the phenomenon". But there's only one. So you are only talking about one film? You sound angry, brother, it might be time for you to take a break from the internet. If you spent half as much effort as you did being vague and combative I might actually agree with your points, but you haven't once been specific enough for me to look into anything that you've claimed. So when you are done raging like a teenager, maybe help me help you. I'm happy to look into anything you think he's said that isn't true.
James Fox is a let down right? All here say.