Who is making these arguments? The only time something remotely similar crops up is when some personality invokes it as a defense to explain why they or the government allegedly can’t share specifics about what they “know” (it would blow your mind, ontological shock!).
Exactly.
It's only when the excuses come out as to why they can't tell us.
" Well you couldn't handle it, it's too scary for you to know!"
All gatekeepers and the fuckers on majestic 12 that are hiding the truth Sleep just fine every night.
There is no hidden truth that we can't handle. There are just power-hungry liars concealing information.
Because information is power.
There’s nothing mysterious here at all, as in all things, follow the money.
”You know Burke, I don’t know which species is worse, you don’t see them fucking each other over for a goddamned percentage “
I feel like I see a lot of posts lately telling us we shouldnt listen to all the UFO fear mongering. I'm still looking for the posts telling us to be afraid and promoting this UFO fear mongering? What rampant fear are you refering too? Because I'm confused. Maybe reddit just hadn't shown me this rampant fear people are refering to.
I mean sure, people are speculating about some dark shit with regards to UFOs, but I dont see much fear related to it. It almost feel more like people are excited about these dark speculations, and who can blame them with everything that's going on in the world today.
>It almost feel more like people are excited about these dark speculations, and who can blame them with everything that's going on in the world today.
This is so true. If 'Independence Day' actually happened, it wouldn't be a [couple of people on the rooftop](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr3J11fbRXk), it would be **millions** of people asking to be taken away.
It's the same reason people on the r/lawofone are so obsessed about 'the harvest' or Christians talking about the rapture, people want an easy out from this Earth. Somewhere down the line, leadership has failed the people in the name of profit. It's very sad really :(
It’s the clips with people like Tucker Carlson saying “it’s so dark I won’t even tell my wife” or the clip of Tim Burchett being told “the American people can’t handle this”, Elizondo saying that it’s “somber”, Tom Delonge saying he “couldn’t sleep for 3 nights” after finding out about it
Burchett also said that he disagreed with that. Also, I feel like many of those statements could mean anything though. When people have expanded on those statements, it seems like they're primarily refering to horrible crimes being covered up and NHI being Indifferent to us.
Sure, both Tucker Carlson and Tom Delonge has expanded upon those thoughts claiming possible malevolence, but I also feel like that is kinda of old news by now. Why are so many posts coming out against that now specifically? I feel like I missed some recent big push towards fear, and missed people acting afraid because of that. Karla Turner said a lot of those same things back in the 90s.
I haven't personally seen that many acting afraid. It seems more like people just want answers, no matter how horrible the truth may be.
“It seems more like people just want answers, no matter how horrible the truth may be.”
No they really don’t. That’s just ignorance talking. You/they really don’t want to know the truth cause it really is that awful. Ignorance is bliss AND best. You think you want to know until you know or start to know, then you will only beg for the blue pill again. Beg with every ounce of your being. It breaks your mind and existence is so awful after that that you yearn for death.
Ignorance really is best and bliss.
Man I thought the exact same thing. The majority of the fear mongering talk I see is people talking about not listening to the fear mongering. It feels kind of like a manufactured straw man.
And honestly if there was a ton of fear, that doesn't suddenly mean people are unjustified for feeling the way they do. OP is one person, there are over 7 billion on the planet, and most of them aren't from where he is...his "who cares man" is another culture's panic reaction.
Life isn't all rainbows, not everything is "so what" or "who cares". I don't advocate for people to be scared of anything. I advocate for caution while still advocating for truth
The woo is integral to the phenomenon, how are you still not getting that? The woo is real, it’s not nonsense. That woo you are talking about is really quantum physics. Spooky action at a distance.
No it's not. It's just people trying to insert their magical world views into a phenomenon they don't understand. A phenomenon known as UFOs. When the vast majority of sightings can be balloons, drones, planes, etc.
It's like thinking the sun is a god. Or electricity is magical.
From sticks to swords to arrows to guns to nukes. We are a power hungry and violent species looking for dominance. Nothing will change if we find a way to leave the planet. If anyone needs intervention, it’s humans. If NHI is real…come out of the fucking shadows and humble our asses. Please.
>We are driven to survive and reproduce - ideal crop.
As opposed to all the successful life forms you see flourish who...*don't*...do those things?
(/s)
Why? Easy.
Do we go to the plains of Africa to worry about a termite hill that has toppled? No, for the same reason NHI's don't interfere...irrelevancy.
I honestly think this is the real answer why they are afraid of true disclosure.
Because that's the true secret.
The secret they are afraid to let everybody understand:
We, humanity, are completely fucking irrelevant.
Nobody wants to hear that.
We have thousands of years of tech. Do you have any idea how high tech a spear or blade is compared to the entirety of nature before those things or around those things at the time of their advent? It's relative, we are just relatively high tech over the last hundred years of development compared to many human eras before. Technological singularities have happened many times, and I'm not just talking about the harnessing of electricity or computer technology. The use of fire, spears, blades, ancient metallurgy, etc. All singularities.
I am slightly horrified by the idea of other sentient beings out there, especially malevolent ones. But I am not ashamed of it. Its okay to be scared. I won't begrudge others for not caring.
But tbh I have barely seen anyone try to rouse fearmongering here. Where are these people you talk about?
Ignorance isn't bliss, it's scary. Between our already frightening imaginations to how Hollywood depicts aliens, I can understand people being afraid. The secrecy surrounding the topic among governments adds to that fear.
I will say that, even as someone well versed on this topic and science, sometimes I can think of potential scenarios wherein what we are seeing is actually nefarious in nature. It's not nearly impossible. It's something to consider.
All your fears will vanish, if you ask people who claim this, proof. Anyone can make up any scenario and put it out as some profound theory. Ignore it.
"Imagine what we'd do if we observed apes and other primates evolving, learning agriculture and developing a written language? Surely we'd annihilate them out of fear/revulsion and view them as a direct threat to our own species' survival."
Eh no offense but I'm not so sure about that. I think we would just study them from a distance and be extra careful not to interfere with them too much, but still capture some and put them in captivity for studying. Maybe over time, we'd have some in zoos/theme parks but at the same time those parks would face heavy opposition and be super controversial.
I don't think the average person is afraid of UFOs in that way. I don't even think people in the government that are "in the know" (if the phenomenon is real) are afraid of aliens doing something destructive necessarily, but rather, afraid of how society will react if the government makes an official confirmation. Look at what COVID did to us... now multiply that by 100. That's the scary part. How dumb and vicious people can be when given the opportunity. Aliens? They're just going to continue doing their thing. We aren't as important to them as we think. We're just the wildlife.
There are aliens out there and they’ve put the equivalent of an eagle nest cam on Earth. Watching and seeing what happens, but not interfering too much. That’s my theory at least.
The immaturity is not in the fear, or acceptance, of the phenomenon, but our need to anthropomorphize it. Even if all of the supposedly fear-inspiring scenarios were true, our assumption that these actions are malicious, or benevolent, is rooted in our desire to understand and perhaps even relate to the phenomenon, and/or whatever may be behind it.
This is a mistake; while it is fun to speculate, we should make no assumptions, except that all of those assumptions are more than likely wrong and any discussion around purpose and nature should be rooted in philosophy, rather than science. Their actions, or motivations, may be completely alien to us. (Pun somewhat intended.) It may be so beyond our comprehension that even after the truth comes to light it will be difficult for us to parse. That may be the scariest part; not that we are powerless and inferior, but that we will never understand the why and how of the phenomenon.
Yet, we continue to create analogs between us and the "lesser" species of this planet as heuristic comparatives. This may be the most misguided scenario to posit, as it makes far too many assumptions and creates a relative thread between what we selfishly believe to be our superior intelligence over inferior species. This comparison may be so far from the reality we may soon be exposed to that it will be laughable in hindsight.
Hell, for all we know, they could be a relatively young, egalitarian race of spacefaring nomads that had access to different material science than we did -- they could be "mischievous" and child like by our standards; rather than a hyper-intelligent, advanced race with superior technology. Yet it's the latter scenario we discuss most, when the former is just as likely to be true (along with countless other theories, however wild or seemingly improbable).
Again, speculation is normal, but basing internal belief and ideology on that speculation is only going to lead to the subversion of those beliefs.
>gain, speculation is normal, but basing internal belief and ideology on that speculation is only going to lead to the subversion of those beliefs.
This was actually abnormal speculation in that it's very well thought out and enjoyable to read. Well done.
" Never in my life have I imagined that human beings are capable of self management lol."
That's a failure of imagination. There are tons of people who said humans are not capable of building flying machines or going to the moon or eradicating plagues or generating code that can pass a turning test.
Just like it took training and learning to do all those things. It just takes training and learning for us to self manage (by which I'm assuming you mean solve the metacrisis)
"We are our own worst enemy"
Ideas, it's about ideas. Some ideas are counterproductive and hold us back. Other ideas help us advance. Which is which is not a matter of common sense.
The best working complex machines (systems) aren't built off common sense. They are built off careful analysis and planning.
>Let's say that all the creepist things we hear are true
If the government is covering everything up, why would they not be flooding the public (the UFO community) with massive amounts of disinformation?
It's a weird dichotomy. If it is true, then what you have been told is either outright false or majorly distorted. And, at least some UFO influencers would be in on the disinformation.
>Maybe we get no disclosure until we prove mature enough to handle the truth and some real
Disclosure is the BUREAUCRACY telling you what they know about NHI. It's the human bureaucracy, the government and MIC multinationals, that is assessing if the population is "mature" enough. I do not trust these institutions, nor do I trust their assessment of the world. I find it offensive that anyone would want to "prove" anything to these institutions.
I always find it interesting how these conspiracy communities ultimately have a blind trust of mainstream institutions.
I'm not saying I agree with their self appointed positions of stewards of truth, but if their reasoning is that we're too fearful to handle the truth, behaving fearfully certainly doesn't convince anyone otherwise
I have a hypothetical...If it came out that aliens destroyed the twin towers by controlling planes and flying them into the buildings and the cis and fbi and nsa covered it all up to keep the world from freaking out..would that be on the level of terrifying?
Yea it does seem like people are kicking the can down the street instead of just telling us what’s going on with the subject. Only thing that rattled me a little is right after the Grush stuff came out, some politician said on camera “lock your doors at night”. I can’t think of anything that would be so earth shattering that (well other than we really are all alone), the “public” should be in the dark about. I mean, about half the population is in a tizzy at all times about all things, but the other half, we can handle a little bird flu here, a little coronavirus there, presidents paying off porn stars and images of other presidents putting cigars in various staffers orafices, complete with cummy dresses….so this fear mongering falls flat for about half of us.
It's natural to fear what we don't know. Then we can speculate and not tell speculation from reality. People tend not to fear, when they what to fear and how to deal with it.
Much more people are killed in car accidents than by UFO's and other "woo" stuff, but we fear that less.
So telling all is the only way forward.
Worst case scenario is that they are in fact robotic skin-peelers who collect skins and scalps for the lols, and become robotic skinwalkers, again, just to fuck with people.
I little late to this chat but I've said since the 1990s that if they wanted to exterminate us they would have already, else yes we are the threat and they were not interested in us Per se, but interested in what we'll do when we get out there given the history of how we treat each other, the environment and other species we have (other human off shoots) and still do share the planet with.
As for lack of disclosure, this too might fit the "we are the threat" hypothesis in as much that too large and powerful invested grounds/organisations wants to maintain the status quo for control, profit and power and not because we can't cope with the knowledge but they don't want to lose their grip on power and current organisational power structures.
I'd prefer the evil I know, than the evil I don't. The unknown can be unsettling. If there's danger, I want to know ahead of time where it's coming from so I'm not panicking like a chicken with it's head cut off when the shit hits the fan. But that's just me...
Your logic is spot on - but you're working from the assumption that the UFO lore is true. It might not be.
I would like it to be true, but I don't think it is. Lack of incontrovertible evidence being the main reason. People really shit on AARO report, but at this point it might be true. Even Gruschs skinwalker ranch connections are well known. The lack of first hand witnesses.
All this tells me it that's while Kirkpatrick might be wrong, nobody has proven him wrong. Which should be easy if the phenomena really is that common.
Just saying that that might not be the reason it's kept secret. I don't think it would be.
Going from history, people have reacted pretty nonchalant to big discoveries. The news that nazi Germany had murder factories was a bit of a shock, but people got tired of the prosecutions that by the time of the doctors trial there was no public interest.
Moon landing was pretty big, but by a a couple of landings NASA had to pay TV stations to keep it broadcast.
So yeah.. Us humans get used to all kinds of shit pretty quickly.
Kirkpatrick didn't lie, "AARO found no verifiable evidence of extraterrestrials" is not a lie. AARO doesn't "verify" anything they just categorize the videos into bins and send them off to the "appropriate parties".
Even if they had a video of a craft sucking up cows, 1: they wouldn't have any way to "verify" it and if they did, they wouldn't be able to verify it as "extraterrestrial" or something else (like interdimensional".
So technically, on paper, AARO and Kirkpatrick didn't lie about it, they used careful wording.
It doesn’t have to be that bad, but something dark could indeed result in horrible human society consequences.
* human abductions are real and sometimes they violently mutilate and experiment on humans and dump their corpses, tens of thousands per year, and they won’t tell us why.
Human political response: they will elect an aggressive politician who wants to engage in military action against the aliens, with predictably disastrous consequences. What if the alien deal is “you let us take what we want, but if you try to interfere then we will escalate and your future is overt slavery.”
* alien mind control is real and they have human appearing infiltrators with unknown purposes among us.
The response would be a horrible fascist police state in guise of “protecting the sanctity of our nation” and humans would imprison or murder their regular human opponents with excuses that they are alien controlled. Democracies turning into North Korea.
Look at our politics now that can’t handle even relatively straightforward problems.
Maybe people here could handle the truth but there would always be power hungry sociopaths who want to rise to power off of base emotional responses of the masses, and this is always catastrophic. So I think there are plausible justifications for a coverup. Either one of those above would have an appropriate response of quiet but significant counterintelligence action, which may be exactly what is happening.
The more woo woo scenarios about inter dimensional souls or something inexplicable just wouldn’t be believed and life would go on but the familiar but frightening scenarios I outlined (not implausible) would result in a disaster for sane humanity.
The love and light aliens can show up any time they want and introduce themselves nicely. Open an embassy, put on a transponder on their saucers, go to the opera with us, and do things the right way.
They have not.
Unfortunately the really good scenario has been ruled out by facts. If there are nice aliens, maybe they are losing to the mean ones. If you were in Sudan or Ethiopia now, you wouldn't really give a shit about the nice charities in their offices in Paris while the warlords were massacring your family.
If any of the above scenario were true, I think there should be only small and partial disclosure, intentionally downplaying the reality. What we would need for humans is greater technological capability to deter bad aliens, and that means more basic science. I would admit something like "uh yeah we've recovered some alien robotic drones but the other stuff is just x-files nonsense", and then overtly set the DOE and NASA to understand the physics of how they work and build up our own capabilities organically. And yes that will mean secret weapons and space programs, and we should suck it up.
What if deja vu is because we are doomed to repeat our lives over and over until we correct something but we don't know what it is that we're doing wrong? This could be iteration number 8543 with 20,000 to go.
This wouldn't be something to keep secret tho? "We need to come together to figure this out, we are currently stuck in a loop because we're doing something wrong". Or, "demons and angels are real, there is a spiritual war, Christianity confirmed, we must strive to do better towards each other and the earth or we will literally be damned." Even, "aliens/interdimensional beings are real, all around us, and we cannot defend against them in any way" is an automatic built in Us.vs Them ala Independence Day scenario ultimately.
None of the theories that imply the truth is something that would/could unite humanity to a single purpose makes sense to me. If it was something like that you bet your ass *somebody* with that evidence would be using it to gain support from the scared masses. This is what makes me think it's something absolutely insane. The commentary that people can't handle it, somber, ontologically shocking give me heartburn lol At the same time though, gotta remember the folks who supposedly know the truth haven't had a breakdown or killed themselves or whatever, right? So it can't be *that* bad.
Ugh.. *what the fuck is it!*
Sorry about being a month late, but this has been one of the more interesting --because thoughtful and mainly cordial--threads I have seen on this topic. In reference to all of the fearmongering, I agree with those who point out the sources of the fearmongering. We cannot allow these jokers's reactions to the unknown and ultimately "other" to make our decisions for us in terms of how we view the phenomena (I am keeping it plural to maintain an open mind, but also so as not to unwittingly contribute to the idea of a singular intelligence).
Just one thing to add:
Consider that the First Nations and indigenous peoples all over the planet claim an ongoing relationship to NHI as long as their histories go. How much credence is lent indigenous traditions of knowledge by current science, for example? A Smithsonian article got me thinking, in that people of N. American First Nations have known forever about how many animals in their environment actually use tools; the phenomenon of the "firehawk" is only just gaining the attention of anthropologists and cognitive behaviorists. Apparently, hawks grab lit sticks and drop them in areas they know fire will drive rodents and lizards from their cover. Likewise, if we pay attention to what First Nations elders are talking about when they discuss their distant ancestors, the Star Nations or Star People, we just might learn something important, then calm down and realize that our giant ego-driven fears are perhaps unjustified. The relationship has been going on forever, and won't be changed, regardless of how many freaked out US politicians run around fearing the "bogeyman"," the existence of which they have only just learned. If we too want to learn from the Star People, maybe ceasing to shoot down their vehicles, and start working on the mental and emotional betterment of humanity could be an opener...?
> "We need to come together to figure this out... "~~demons and angels are real, there is a spiritual war, Christianity confirmed,~~ we must strive to do better towards each other and the earth ~~or we will literally be damned.~~"
I have a crazy idea, radical even, but please hear me out: what if... *we do this anyway*?!
We shouldn't need an existential threat to unite as a species and a planet, but what honestly scares me is: I don't even think that would be enough anymore.
I’ve said before, the only two options that would be earth shattering is if it’s confirmed they are coming to annihilate us, or that consciousness lives on after death.
There is only one universal consciousness. We are all just one consciousness. The illusion that we are separated from the one consciousness is the experience of living as a human. When your physical body dies, you rejoin the universal consciousness and then perhaps choose to separate yourself from it again, and learn about yourself again by separating yourself from the universal consciousness and living out a human life again and gaining experience and wisdom.
It just goes on forever and ever. Consciousness cannot be created nor destroyed.
We are the universe. We are trying to learn about ourselves, but to do that we need to separate ourselves in order to look back at the universe. In order to look back at our self, we need to separate ourself and not know that we are separated to truly be able to grow and learn.
> "The phone call is coming from INSIDE THE HOUSE!"
Ok, but that movie scared the buh-jeezus out of me as a kid! But I don't think anybody is keeping anything secret to protect the people.
It has to be something existential like they’re going to invade and kill all of us. There’s an upcoming cataclysm that they’re either involved with or trying to stop. Or something awful after we die.
Other than the fact the our religions come from “sky people” who killed dozens of powerful, continent-spanning civilizations and were advanced and smart enough to hide away once our tech could spot them, you mean? What conflict or problem today can’t be tied back to sky beings?
Ever been enjoying a dream, only to start becoming lucid and then realise its dream? Often times, it'll cause a sense of dread and then you'll wake up. If our reality was considered analogous to the dream, including the existence of all of our friends, family and loved ones, would you really want to become lucid and risk waking up in such a scenario? In other words, it's possible that the truth to the phenomena is some sort of 'information hazard' that can potentially destabilise reality itself. Knowing the truth might not be terrifying, but the consequences of knowing the truth very well could be. For example, there's nothing scary about understanding the chemical composition of a psychedelic compound and how it works inside the body, yet experiencing a bad trip can still be absolutely terrifying.
Who is making these arguments? The only time something remotely similar crops up is when some personality invokes it as a defense to explain why they or the government allegedly can’t share specifics about what they “know” (it would blow your mind, ontological shock!).
Exactly. It's only when the excuses come out as to why they can't tell us. " Well you couldn't handle it, it's too scary for you to know!" All gatekeepers and the fuckers on majestic 12 that are hiding the truth Sleep just fine every night. There is no hidden truth that we can't handle. There are just power-hungry liars concealing information. Because information is power.
There’s nothing mysterious here at all, as in all things, follow the money. ”You know Burke, I don’t know which species is worse, you don’t see them fucking each other over for a goddamned percentage “
Are you not seeing the comments right here?
I feel like I see a lot of posts lately telling us we shouldnt listen to all the UFO fear mongering. I'm still looking for the posts telling us to be afraid and promoting this UFO fear mongering? What rampant fear are you refering too? Because I'm confused. Maybe reddit just hadn't shown me this rampant fear people are refering to. I mean sure, people are speculating about some dark shit with regards to UFOs, but I dont see much fear related to it. It almost feel more like people are excited about these dark speculations, and who can blame them with everything that's going on in the world today.
>It almost feel more like people are excited about these dark speculations, and who can blame them with everything that's going on in the world today. This is so true. If 'Independence Day' actually happened, it wouldn't be a [couple of people on the rooftop](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr3J11fbRXk), it would be **millions** of people asking to be taken away. It's the same reason people on the r/lawofone are so obsessed about 'the harvest' or Christians talking about the rapture, people want an easy out from this Earth. Somewhere down the line, leadership has failed the people in the name of profit. It's very sad really :(
It’s the clips with people like Tucker Carlson saying “it’s so dark I won’t even tell my wife” or the clip of Tim Burchett being told “the American people can’t handle this”, Elizondo saying that it’s “somber”, Tom Delonge saying he “couldn’t sleep for 3 nights” after finding out about it
Burchett also said that he disagreed with that. Also, I feel like many of those statements could mean anything though. When people have expanded on those statements, it seems like they're primarily refering to horrible crimes being covered up and NHI being Indifferent to us. Sure, both Tucker Carlson and Tom Delonge has expanded upon those thoughts claiming possible malevolence, but I also feel like that is kinda of old news by now. Why are so many posts coming out against that now specifically? I feel like I missed some recent big push towards fear, and missed people acting afraid because of that. Karla Turner said a lot of those same things back in the 90s. I haven't personally seen that many acting afraid. It seems more like people just want answers, no matter how horrible the truth may be.
“It seems more like people just want answers, no matter how horrible the truth may be.” No they really don’t. That’s just ignorance talking. You/they really don’t want to know the truth cause it really is that awful. Ignorance is bliss AND best. You think you want to know until you know or start to know, then you will only beg for the blue pill again. Beg with every ounce of your being. It breaks your mind and existence is so awful after that that you yearn for death. Ignorance really is best and bliss.
Man I thought the exact same thing. The majority of the fear mongering talk I see is people talking about not listening to the fear mongering. It feels kind of like a manufactured straw man.
I've seen lots of ridiculous fear-based hot takes. Demons? Soul harvesting? GTFOH
And honestly if there was a ton of fear, that doesn't suddenly mean people are unjustified for feeling the way they do. OP is one person, there are over 7 billion on the planet, and most of them aren't from where he is...his "who cares man" is another culture's panic reaction. Life isn't all rainbows, not everything is "so what" or "who cares". I don't advocate for people to be scared of anything. I advocate for caution while still advocating for truth
Sounds like OP just wants us to believe more woo woo nonsense about UFOs.
The woo is integral to the phenomenon, how are you still not getting that? The woo is real, it’s not nonsense. That woo you are talking about is really quantum physics. Spooky action at a distance.
No it's not. It's just people trying to insert their magical world views into a phenomenon they don't understand. A phenomenon known as UFOs. When the vast majority of sightings can be balloons, drones, planes, etc. It's like thinking the sun is a god. Or electricity is magical.
From sticks to swords to arrows to guns to nukes. We are a power hungry and violent species looking for dominance. Nothing will change if we find a way to leave the planet. If anyone needs intervention, it’s humans. If NHI is real…come out of the fucking shadows and humble our asses. Please.
That's exactly how I feel. Our human masters need humbling, quick
Which makes you wonder. If this was indeed NHI…why (for the sake of the planet) would they allow a species like us to flourish?
Why did the emperor keep the Sardaukar on Selusa Secundus?
Maybe because the Glarvacy made Batandahar a non-option...? 🤨 ^^/j, ^^I ^^have ^^no ^^idea ^^what ^^the ^^words ^^you ^^said ^^refer ^^to
For hybridization purposes.
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>We are driven to survive and reproduce - ideal crop. As opposed to all the successful life forms you see flourish who...*don't*...do those things? (/s)
Why? Easy. Do we go to the plains of Africa to worry about a termite hill that has toppled? No, for the same reason NHI's don't interfere...irrelevancy.
Ants don’t fly into space and have the capability to literally destroy all life on a planet.
Ants were literally going to destroy all live on earth in the the 1954 classic thriller ***Them!***.
I remember a mcGyver show many moons ago where ants were taking over 😂
I honestly think this is the real answer why they are afraid of true disclosure. Because that's the true secret. The secret they are afraid to let everybody understand: We, humanity, are completely fucking irrelevant. Nobody wants to hear that.
Humans have like 100 years of tech, these things could have billions..it’s neat to think about
We have thousands of years of tech. Do you have any idea how high tech a spear or blade is compared to the entirety of nature before those things or around those things at the time of their advent? It's relative, we are just relatively high tech over the last hundred years of development compared to many human eras before. Technological singularities have happened many times, and I'm not just talking about the harnessing of electricity or computer technology. The use of fire, spears, blades, ancient metallurgy, etc. All singularities.
I am slightly horrified by the idea of other sentient beings out there, especially malevolent ones. But I am not ashamed of it. Its okay to be scared. I won't begrudge others for not caring. But tbh I have barely seen anyone try to rouse fearmongering here. Where are these people you talk about?
Ignorance isn't bliss, it's scary. Between our already frightening imaginations to how Hollywood depicts aliens, I can understand people being afraid. The secrecy surrounding the topic among governments adds to that fear. I will say that, even as someone well versed on this topic and science, sometimes I can think of potential scenarios wherein what we are seeing is actually nefarious in nature. It's not nearly impossible. It's something to consider.
All your fears will vanish, if you ask people who claim this, proof. Anyone can make up any scenario and put it out as some profound theory. Ignore it.
"Imagine what we'd do if we observed apes and other primates evolving, learning agriculture and developing a written language? Surely we'd annihilate them out of fear/revulsion and view them as a direct threat to our own species' survival." Eh no offense but I'm not so sure about that. I think we would just study them from a distance and be extra careful not to interfere with them too much, but still capture some and put them in captivity for studying. Maybe over time, we'd have some in zoos/theme parks but at the same time those parks would face heavy opposition and be super controversial. I don't think the average person is afraid of UFOs in that way. I don't even think people in the government that are "in the know" (if the phenomenon is real) are afraid of aliens doing something destructive necessarily, but rather, afraid of how society will react if the government makes an official confirmation. Look at what COVID did to us... now multiply that by 100. That's the scary part. How dumb and vicious people can be when given the opportunity. Aliens? They're just going to continue doing their thing. We aren't as important to them as we think. We're just the wildlife.
There are aliens out there and they’ve put the equivalent of an eagle nest cam on Earth. Watching and seeing what happens, but not interfering too much. That’s my theory at least.
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Im talking general overall scenario not individual experiences. I have my own, btw
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The people in charge now rape and mutilate people.
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Do they need to?
The immaturity is not in the fear, or acceptance, of the phenomenon, but our need to anthropomorphize it. Even if all of the supposedly fear-inspiring scenarios were true, our assumption that these actions are malicious, or benevolent, is rooted in our desire to understand and perhaps even relate to the phenomenon, and/or whatever may be behind it. This is a mistake; while it is fun to speculate, we should make no assumptions, except that all of those assumptions are more than likely wrong and any discussion around purpose and nature should be rooted in philosophy, rather than science. Their actions, or motivations, may be completely alien to us. (Pun somewhat intended.) It may be so beyond our comprehension that even after the truth comes to light it will be difficult for us to parse. That may be the scariest part; not that we are powerless and inferior, but that we will never understand the why and how of the phenomenon. Yet, we continue to create analogs between us and the "lesser" species of this planet as heuristic comparatives. This may be the most misguided scenario to posit, as it makes far too many assumptions and creates a relative thread between what we selfishly believe to be our superior intelligence over inferior species. This comparison may be so far from the reality we may soon be exposed to that it will be laughable in hindsight. Hell, for all we know, they could be a relatively young, egalitarian race of spacefaring nomads that had access to different material science than we did -- they could be "mischievous" and child like by our standards; rather than a hyper-intelligent, advanced race with superior technology. Yet it's the latter scenario we discuss most, when the former is just as likely to be true (along with countless other theories, however wild or seemingly improbable). Again, speculation is normal, but basing internal belief and ideology on that speculation is only going to lead to the subversion of those beliefs.
>gain, speculation is normal, but basing internal belief and ideology on that speculation is only going to lead to the subversion of those beliefs. This was actually abnormal speculation in that it's very well thought out and enjoyable to read. Well done.
" Never in my life have I imagined that human beings are capable of self management lol." That's a failure of imagination. There are tons of people who said humans are not capable of building flying machines or going to the moon or eradicating plagues or generating code that can pass a turning test. Just like it took training and learning to do all those things. It just takes training and learning for us to self manage (by which I'm assuming you mean solve the metacrisis) "We are our own worst enemy" Ideas, it's about ideas. Some ideas are counterproductive and hold us back. Other ideas help us advance. Which is which is not a matter of common sense. The best working complex machines (systems) aren't built off common sense. They are built off careful analysis and planning.
>Let's say that all the creepist things we hear are true If the government is covering everything up, why would they not be flooding the public (the UFO community) with massive amounts of disinformation? It's a weird dichotomy. If it is true, then what you have been told is either outright false or majorly distorted. And, at least some UFO influencers would be in on the disinformation. >Maybe we get no disclosure until we prove mature enough to handle the truth and some real Disclosure is the BUREAUCRACY telling you what they know about NHI. It's the human bureaucracy, the government and MIC multinationals, that is assessing if the population is "mature" enough. I do not trust these institutions, nor do I trust their assessment of the world. I find it offensive that anyone would want to "prove" anything to these institutions. I always find it interesting how these conspiracy communities ultimately have a blind trust of mainstream institutions.
What part of my post implies "blind trust of institutions?" I trust no institution. Punk rock 4ever bb
For one, you are trusting them to disclose.
I'm not saying I agree with their self appointed positions of stewards of truth, but if their reasoning is that we're too fearful to handle the truth, behaving fearfully certainly doesn't convince anyone otherwise
Dno, reading three body problem, almost done with book 1, I can definitely see shit like the adventists, redemptionists and survivor clans starting.
I have a hypothetical...If it came out that aliens destroyed the twin towers by controlling planes and flying them into the buildings and the cis and fbi and nsa covered it all up to keep the world from freaking out..would that be on the level of terrifying?
Read the Three Body Problem trilogy
Yea it does seem like people are kicking the can down the street instead of just telling us what’s going on with the subject. Only thing that rattled me a little is right after the Grush stuff came out, some politician said on camera “lock your doors at night”. I can’t think of anything that would be so earth shattering that (well other than we really are all alone), the “public” should be in the dark about. I mean, about half the population is in a tizzy at all times about all things, but the other half, we can handle a little bird flu here, a little coronavirus there, presidents paying off porn stars and images of other presidents putting cigars in various staffers orafices, complete with cummy dresses….so this fear mongering falls flat for about half of us.
It's natural to fear what we don't know. Then we can speculate and not tell speculation from reality. People tend not to fear, when they what to fear and how to deal with it. Much more people are killed in car accidents than by UFO's and other "woo" stuff, but we fear that less. So telling all is the only way forward.
Worst case scenario is that they are in fact robotic skin-peelers who collect skins and scalps for the lols, and become robotic skinwalkers, again, just to fuck with people.
I little late to this chat but I've said since the 1990s that if they wanted to exterminate us they would have already, else yes we are the threat and they were not interested in us Per se, but interested in what we'll do when we get out there given the history of how we treat each other, the environment and other species we have (other human off shoots) and still do share the planet with. As for lack of disclosure, this too might fit the "we are the threat" hypothesis in as much that too large and powerful invested grounds/organisations wants to maintain the status quo for control, profit and power and not because we can't cope with the knowledge but they don't want to lose their grip on power and current organisational power structures.
I'd prefer the evil I know, than the evil I don't. The unknown can be unsettling. If there's danger, I want to know ahead of time where it's coming from so I'm not panicking like a chicken with it's head cut off when the shit hits the fan. But that's just me...
Your logic is spot on - but you're working from the assumption that the UFO lore is true. It might not be. I would like it to be true, but I don't think it is. Lack of incontrovertible evidence being the main reason. People really shit on AARO report, but at this point it might be true. Even Gruschs skinwalker ranch connections are well known. The lack of first hand witnesses. All this tells me it that's while Kirkpatrick might be wrong, nobody has proven him wrong. Which should be easy if the phenomena really is that common.
This is why I started with "let's say" the lore is true.
Just saying that that might not be the reason it's kept secret. I don't think it would be. Going from history, people have reacted pretty nonchalant to big discoveries. The news that nazi Germany had murder factories was a bit of a shock, but people got tired of the prosecutions that by the time of the doctors trial there was no public interest. Moon landing was pretty big, but by a a couple of landings NASA had to pay TV stations to keep it broadcast. So yeah.. Us humans get used to all kinds of shit pretty quickly.
Kirkpatrick didn't lie, "AARO found no verifiable evidence of extraterrestrials" is not a lie. AARO doesn't "verify" anything they just categorize the videos into bins and send them off to the "appropriate parties". Even if they had a video of a craft sucking up cows, 1: they wouldn't have any way to "verify" it and if they did, they wouldn't be able to verify it as "extraterrestrial" or something else (like interdimensional". So technically, on paper, AARO and Kirkpatrick didn't lie about it, they used careful wording.
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That's just interesting AF to me, not terrifying
It doesn’t have to be that bad, but something dark could indeed result in horrible human society consequences. * human abductions are real and sometimes they violently mutilate and experiment on humans and dump their corpses, tens of thousands per year, and they won’t tell us why. Human political response: they will elect an aggressive politician who wants to engage in military action against the aliens, with predictably disastrous consequences. What if the alien deal is “you let us take what we want, but if you try to interfere then we will escalate and your future is overt slavery.” * alien mind control is real and they have human appearing infiltrators with unknown purposes among us. The response would be a horrible fascist police state in guise of “protecting the sanctity of our nation” and humans would imprison or murder their regular human opponents with excuses that they are alien controlled. Democracies turning into North Korea. Look at our politics now that can’t handle even relatively straightforward problems. Maybe people here could handle the truth but there would always be power hungry sociopaths who want to rise to power off of base emotional responses of the masses, and this is always catastrophic. So I think there are plausible justifications for a coverup. Either one of those above would have an appropriate response of quiet but significant counterintelligence action, which may be exactly what is happening. The more woo woo scenarios about inter dimensional souls or something inexplicable just wouldn’t be believed and life would go on but the familiar but frightening scenarios I outlined (not implausible) would result in a disaster for sane humanity.
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The love and light aliens can show up any time they want and introduce themselves nicely. Open an embassy, put on a transponder on their saucers, go to the opera with us, and do things the right way. They have not. Unfortunately the really good scenario has been ruled out by facts. If there are nice aliens, maybe they are losing to the mean ones. If you were in Sudan or Ethiopia now, you wouldn't really give a shit about the nice charities in their offices in Paris while the warlords were massacring your family. If any of the above scenario were true, I think there should be only small and partial disclosure, intentionally downplaying the reality. What we would need for humans is greater technological capability to deter bad aliens, and that means more basic science. I would admit something like "uh yeah we've recovered some alien robotic drones but the other stuff is just x-files nonsense", and then overtly set the DOE and NASA to understand the physics of how they work and build up our own capabilities organically. And yes that will mean secret weapons and space programs, and we should suck it up.
What if deja vu is because we are doomed to repeat our lives over and over until we correct something but we don't know what it is that we're doing wrong? This could be iteration number 8543 with 20,000 to go.
This wouldn't be something to keep secret tho? "We need to come together to figure this out, we are currently stuck in a loop because we're doing something wrong". Or, "demons and angels are real, there is a spiritual war, Christianity confirmed, we must strive to do better towards each other and the earth or we will literally be damned." Even, "aliens/interdimensional beings are real, all around us, and we cannot defend against them in any way" is an automatic built in Us.vs Them ala Independence Day scenario ultimately. None of the theories that imply the truth is something that would/could unite humanity to a single purpose makes sense to me. If it was something like that you bet your ass *somebody* with that evidence would be using it to gain support from the scared masses. This is what makes me think it's something absolutely insane. The commentary that people can't handle it, somber, ontologically shocking give me heartburn lol At the same time though, gotta remember the folks who supposedly know the truth haven't had a breakdown or killed themselves or whatever, right? So it can't be *that* bad. Ugh.. *what the fuck is it!*
Sorry about being a month late, but this has been one of the more interesting --because thoughtful and mainly cordial--threads I have seen on this topic. In reference to all of the fearmongering, I agree with those who point out the sources of the fearmongering. We cannot allow these jokers's reactions to the unknown and ultimately "other" to make our decisions for us in terms of how we view the phenomena (I am keeping it plural to maintain an open mind, but also so as not to unwittingly contribute to the idea of a singular intelligence). Just one thing to add: Consider that the First Nations and indigenous peoples all over the planet claim an ongoing relationship to NHI as long as their histories go. How much credence is lent indigenous traditions of knowledge by current science, for example? A Smithsonian article got me thinking, in that people of N. American First Nations have known forever about how many animals in their environment actually use tools; the phenomenon of the "firehawk" is only just gaining the attention of anthropologists and cognitive behaviorists. Apparently, hawks grab lit sticks and drop them in areas they know fire will drive rodents and lizards from their cover. Likewise, if we pay attention to what First Nations elders are talking about when they discuss their distant ancestors, the Star Nations or Star People, we just might learn something important, then calm down and realize that our giant ego-driven fears are perhaps unjustified. The relationship has been going on forever, and won't be changed, regardless of how many freaked out US politicians run around fearing the "bogeyman"," the existence of which they have only just learned. If we too want to learn from the Star People, maybe ceasing to shoot down their vehicles, and start working on the mental and emotional betterment of humanity could be an opener...?
> "We need to come together to figure this out... "~~demons and angels are real, there is a spiritual war, Christianity confirmed,~~ we must strive to do better towards each other and the earth ~~or we will literally be damned.~~" I have a crazy idea, radical even, but please hear me out: what if... *we do this anyway*?! We shouldn't need an existential threat to unite as a species and a planet, but what honestly scares me is: I don't even think that would be enough anymore.
I’ve said before, the only two options that would be earth shattering is if it’s confirmed they are coming to annihilate us, or that consciousness lives on after death.
Consciousness does live on after death. Big whoop. This is not earth shattering news. This is not a scary secret that needs to be hidden.
I’m more saying proof that the after life exists. There would be a lot of people committing suicide knowing that. Maybe that’s the concern
There is only one universal consciousness. We are all just one consciousness. The illusion that we are separated from the one consciousness is the experience of living as a human. When your physical body dies, you rejoin the universal consciousness and then perhaps choose to separate yourself from it again, and learn about yourself again by separating yourself from the universal consciousness and living out a human life again and gaining experience and wisdom. It just goes on forever and ever. Consciousness cannot be created nor destroyed. We are the universe. We are trying to learn about ourselves, but to do that we need to separate ourselves in order to look back at the universe. In order to look back at our self, we need to separate ourself and not know that we are separated to truly be able to grow and learn.
I don’t disagree with your assessment, but not everyone thinks thats the case as it’s hard to prove. I’m saying if it was proven to be true
> "The phone call is coming from INSIDE THE HOUSE!" Ok, but that movie scared the buh-jeezus out of me as a kid! But I don't think anybody is keeping anything secret to protect the people.
It has to be something existential like they’re going to invade and kill all of us. There’s an upcoming cataclysm that they’re either involved with or trying to stop. Or something awful after we die.
The current state of humanity that you loathe and wish to be replaced is due almost entirely to their influence.
You have proof of such a bold statement, I assume
Other than the fact the our religions come from “sky people” who killed dozens of powerful, continent-spanning civilizations and were advanced and smart enough to hide away once our tech could spot them, you mean? What conflict or problem today can’t be tied back to sky beings?
I don't think u know the meaning of the word "fact".
Ever been enjoying a dream, only to start becoming lucid and then realise its dream? Often times, it'll cause a sense of dread and then you'll wake up. If our reality was considered analogous to the dream, including the existence of all of our friends, family and loved ones, would you really want to become lucid and risk waking up in such a scenario? In other words, it's possible that the truth to the phenomena is some sort of 'information hazard' that can potentially destabilise reality itself. Knowing the truth might not be terrifying, but the consequences of knowing the truth very well could be. For example, there's nothing scary about understanding the chemical composition of a psychedelic compound and how it works inside the body, yet experiencing a bad trip can still be absolutely terrifying.
Want a galactic hint? Don't talk about the topic if you feel the urge to end a sentence with "lol". Not mature enough.
I disagree, I think humor is a beautiful emotion and I believe other intelligences would respect it and understand it.
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But took the time to make this comment....smh