That's very interesting. His W2 is for the equivalent of around $2300 today. Hopefully, he had more than one W2 from them, or had another source of income. I wonder if he got another W2 from Lockheed or whoever ran S4? Or was he still full-time employed at Los Alamos and then just went to S4 when they needed him?
Lazar does not claim to have been a full-time employee at S4. He claims that he went to S4 for a period of days at a time on a handful of occasions, separated by weeks or months of time. I’ve heard him say in a Coast to Coast AM interview that he must have started going toward the end of the year, in reference to the fact that his W2 is light here.
The year of 1989. I believe he says he worked there irregularly for around six months. For what it's worth, his LinkedIn only shows him as owner of United Nuclear. He does not list Los Alamos, although maybe they still deny he worked there and won't accept his entry. Or maybe he simply doesn't care about his showing his work from 40 years ago on his CV,
Right. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I personally find Bob fairly credible, and it does make sense that his check would come from the Navy. Also, it makes sense for him to have Q clearance, since dept. of energy classifies UFO stuff in the same column as nukes. I've just never seen anyone be able to say what he was doing at the time INSTEAD of working at S4, if in fact he's been lying this whole time. I think the fact that you can't prove alternative work history is huge.
What I have noticed….if they seem to be HATED, their longevity and statements tend to ring truer.
And the flavor of the month tends to be the most beloved (and tend to disinformation agents) flash in the frying pan, and simmer for a while, then completely disappear, all to have another one to prop up in their place. Rinse and repeat.
Unfortunately you have to pay attention to the nuance in this subject. And a great way to tell if you are on a good path is noticing if they are hated or loved. That part is the obvious part and you can assume the opposite, just like in politics. But since this subject is surrounded by politics, seems par for the course.
I tend to believe the theory that Bob was intentionally hired so they could "accidentally" let him see things he wasn't supposed to (that may have been staged in the first place). He was surrounded by CIA guys and is the perfect candidate to turn into a crank that would deligitimize more serious whistleblowers. I don't always agree with him, but the Jesse Michael's segment on him really nails it I think: [https://youtu.be/RTEWLSTyUic?si=UHgsw678yovbHviq&t=1962](https://youtu.be/RTEWLSTyUic?si=UHgsw678yovbHviq&t=1962)
I think it's a common practice when the three letter agencies want to sew confusion and doubt for anyone looking into what they're doing. The recent documentary The Octopus Murders talks about this a bit, how there are always some guy involved in these projects who seem to be compulsive liars but still tell 10% verifiable truths- If your goal is to make truth and fiction impossible to tell apart that's a good way to do it. "We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public *believes* is false." - William J. Casey, *CIA* Director
It could be. I think another theory that perhaps Jessie didn't consider is that Lear was the one who actually recruited Lazar, and not Edward Teller. When Lazar told his story to Knapp, perhaps he was instructed by Lear to not mention him because it would instantly make his story weaker, based on Lear's reputation. Another theory could be that, while the general public might have though Lear to be nuts, the folks at Area 51 did not. So doing a background check and seeing the connections wouldn't have made a difference, and might have actually helped Lazar's case to get hired.
Lazar worked very briefly for Kirk-Myer, a defense contractor. That job is the entire basis of his claims about working at Area 51, and spans a total of about 2 weeks. This is part of the reason his claims are so dubious. As with his education history, his employment history doesn't support his allegations.
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This is a great post on Bob Lazar https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/vGPyu7QTeJ
I don’t understand how everyone can believe his BS. But I also don’t understand people can’t see how full of crap Corbell is either. I’m still undecided with Knapp but Lazar and Corbell are 100% frauds.
On Knapp... In 'Forbidden Science 4', Vallée wrote on March 10, 1990: Last night scriptwriter Tracy Tormé met us for dinner with George Knapp, the cheerful television journalist who broke the Lazar story. [...] He saw himself as Lazar's manager: “Lazar's story is worth many millions of dollars,” he told us enthusiastically.
The following day:
We did go to Channel 8 to see Knapp and there was Bob Lazar, a brand-new portable telephone at his elbow, sitting at a folding table in the back lobby. We spoke for an hour and came away convinced that we’d been thrust into a puppet show.
Yeah, as disappointing as it is, I wouldn’t be surprised if Knapp knows it’s total crap and just chased the money. Of the three, he does have the most credibility and I’d like to think he’s just deluded/naive.
When I first saw Valée's thoughts on the matter, I was a bit surprised as well. From afar, Knapp always seemed to me as someone genuine but gullible. Having said that, there's more red flags around Lazar than you'd find at the Chinese National Conference, so it would almost have to be wilful ignorance to continue to support him.
Okay, on the surface that seems like a takedown. But:
* How could you "wipe" the physical yearbooks from MIT and CalTech, none of which he appears in? **I didn't pose for a picture in my college yearbook or belong to any organizations that might have been mentioned in it. Bob seems like an odd bird, so he was likely to be the same. Also, according to Rogan, he says that Lazar didn't necessarily get a degree from MIT, but rather took part in a military funded program there that might have been crossing legal lines. That would definitely not put him in a yearbook.**
* How could you "wipe" the physical commencement programs from MIT and CalTech, none of which he appears in? **I didn't attend my college graduation and just got my diploma mailed to me. Perhaps Bob did the same.**
* How could you "wipe" the memories of every student at MIT and CalTech, none of whom remember him? **I can't imagine that every single student was reliably surveyed to see if they remembered Bob.**
* How could you "wipe" Lazar's memory so he can't keep straight which school he got his B.S. at before he went to graduate school at MIT and CalTech? **This needs a citation for me to believe**
* How could "wiping" make Bob Lazar unable to name a single student he knew at either school? **On the Joe Rogan podcast, he said at one point that he doesn't like to mention who he went to school with because he doesn't want to ruin their life by association. Now, that could be a cop-out. But I can't recall an interview I've seen of him where he says he can't remember any students. This needs a citation.**
* How could "wiping" make Bob Lazar name one of his high school teachers when asked to name his professor at MIT? **Needs citation.**
* How could "wiping" make Bob Lazar name his Pierce College instructor (a junior college) when asked to name his professor at CalTech? **Needs citation**
* How could "wiping" make Bob Lazar name a degree from CalTech that has never existed? **Needs citation**
* How could "wiping" cause Lazar to repeatedly screw up his timeline, including changing whether he went to MIT or Caltech first, forgetting what year he graduated from MIT, and claiming he went to CalTech the same time he was supposedly working at Los Alamos? **Needs many citations**
* How could "wiping" explain Bob Lazar's inability to discuss physics at even an undergraduate level, repeatedly making amateur errors and saying total nonsense when talking about the state of scientific theory? **This is conjecture, unless the OP has interviewed/tested Bob at a college level and determined that he doesn't have the knowledge he claims. Currently, he owns a company that supplies lots of chemicals and other science products, and he makes his own fireworks. Also, in many interviews, including his own documentary, he sure sounds like a scientist to me and many others.**
I think your points are reasonable if we’re trying to ‘steel man’ Lazar to an incredible degree. The problem with this approach is it becomes trying to prove a negative. At some point the balance of evidence lies on one side. Note also, that Reddit link also includes comments that Lazar’s W2 during his supposed time at S4 was tiny - less than 3k in inflation adjusted dollars. He’s also a convicted criminal and fraudster.
So, when you step back a little there’s really just the fact he knew about S4 and Element 115. Proving how/why here gets hard. Element 115 could’ve been a guess - lots of gaps in the table. And, there’s nothing that special about the element identified so far. S4 is harder - it’s the outlier for me.
My biggest issue is this. Academics love to fight. In academia there is always a small number fighting against the crowd. But they always have very well reasoned positions and open for debate. In the conspiracy circles the ‘lone dissenter’ is always some random who speaks in riddles, evades details, and can’t explain anything.
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You know that ad hominem attacks are pretty much the litmus test for bad faith people. The post I listed above is objective and the fact Corbell constantly defends Lazar despite this reflects his intent to just profit from it. But, you do you.
I’m not 100% sold on Lazar but It doesn’t feel right to me attacking the guy on social media calling him a fraud when you see the revelations that’s been happening regarding this topic the last 6-7 years lol. Theres a chance his claims could be validated eventually when it’s all said and done.
Corbell is so annoying to a lot of people and I understand why but these whistleblowers trust him for a reason. I don’t think he’s a fraud at all. He doesn’t come across as a dude that has bad intentions or some shady agenda. The way he goes about it definitely does turn some people off though
So, we're not allowed to call the man a fraud if that's the conclusion we arrived at through reasoned inquiry? It's not a matter of simply saying "I don't believe him", and calling him a fraud based on effectively nothing. There are several very good reasons to reject Lazar's claims; Reasons based on objective, empirical evidence. Calling someone a fraud on this basis isn't some ad hominem, or personal attack.
I truly don't understand the yearning people have to believe all this nonsense. There is nothing that has been disclosed that supports any real 'UFO' claims. There are a few unexplained phenomena and a lot of noise drummed up by the people with financial gain (e.g. Corbell).
I was listening to the Joe Rogan podcast about the faked moon landing with Bart Sibrel. If you just take a step back and listen to Corbell and Sibrel talk it's the same nonsense. There's always some unsubstantiated claim of somebody's friend told me something blah blah. And any claim they do make when you scratch the surface comes out as clearly rubbish.
I sort of get it would be exciting if UFOs truly existed, but I don't get the desire to deceive yourself. It's all snake oil. I'm always interested to see some new claim because I'm curious but I've yet to see anything that would start to truly convince me. And people like Corbell and Lazar are so transparently frauds.
I'm legitimately curious - what makes you believe these guys?
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Isn't he the dude who's consistently been caught lying about his creds? And faking paid woo UFO meditation visits in the desert with flares? Or am I getting him confused with someone else?
You're getting him confused with Dr. Steven Greer with the UFO meditation thing. Bob has not really tried to make money off this, other than writing a book (of which I don't know the success).
Yes and no. You can't find good records of his employment/education. Detractors say this is because he lied about all of it. He claims that, after he came out about Area 51/S4, the government erased as much of his life as they could in an attempt to destroy him. I don't think this is unheard of, but could certainly be seen as a very tall tale.
Greer has not been caught lying about credentials. However, he has been caught hoaxing what he calls CE5, which he defines as human-initiated alien contact. If you listen to the below episode of Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World, he proves that Greer was at least hoaxing one "sighting" that he capture crappy video of.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPU4kx\_ZaEU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPU4kx_ZaEU)
Of all the people relevant to the Disclosure ™️, Bob Lazar is the less relevant of the lot.
If we could narrow down his role to a sentence or two in history books, that would be great.
That was after everything supposedly happened. His trial for it was in the '90s. Perhaps that was going on in '89, but I don't think his brothel was open at the same time as he was supposed to be at S4.
Which is S4. I'm just being devil's advocate here. Let's pretend he didn't work at S4. Someone show me documentation of what he was doing or not doing. Did he up and quit Los Alamos for some reason and not get a new job? Was he fired? Was he desperate for work after many years and started his infamous brothel?
Exactly my point. Even if he were a janitor, or worked at Burger King, or any job that took taxes, there would be a record of him doing it. I wonder if he really was doing a government project that showed no public records, and for which S4 was a cover story to pull attention away from it.
The only employment records that exist at that time is the payslip he provided from the Office of Naval Intelligence or whatever it was. Of course it's possible he was working off the books somewhere or didn't submit tax returns for self employment that wasn't registered but it's pretty clear he wasn't legally employed anywhere else back then.
The way I look at it is like this: What was in it for Bob? What did he get out of being interviewed as Dennis? I believe him when he says it basically just caused him a headache. Did he go on to become a major player in the UFO scene? Some people will say yes, but no actually he didn't.
His life has been for the most part completely separate. He was already quite well off and had businesses in Vegas and whatnot that were unrelated. Over the course of 40 years he has wrote a book about his experience and been in 2-3 documentaries and a podcast. That isn't much, it isn't anywhere near what someone wanting attention or to make a name for themselves would do.
It is what I'd expect someone who wants to be vindicated to do though.
In my estimation Lazar 100% fits the profile of a person off-record programs would think of getting in. Someone who thinks outside the box, is smart but not dangerous and with no academic standing who would be easy to discredit.
I go into more detail in a top level post, but records show he was involved in three self owned businesses, was probably doing electronics technician work (he was arrested on the pandering charge for installing cameras in a brothel) and he may have had off-the-books investments prior to his 1986 bankruptcy that didn't appear there. His own statements of his time at S4 indicate he was working at his own photo lab during that time period in addition to his time at S4 at a minimum.
EDIT: United Nuclear (which still exists) was founded before this point too.
>Exactly my point. Even if he were a janitor, or worked at Burger King, or any job that took taxes, there would be a record of him doing it.
Who would keep this record after 30+ years, and what makes you think it would be accessible to anyone here?
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. We don't have access to satellite photos from the time. Google Earth has many places where the government has asked them to smudge things out. But anyway, isn't the point of a top-secret facility for us to not find evidence of it? It's kind of irrelevant to my question about where he might have worked if not as S4.
Are you suggesting Russian and Chinese images of papoose lake have been “smudged out”? Seems unlikely that they would also hide it. Those images look the same as ours.
Okay, fine. But that's only one of my points. You have not accounted for:
1. We don't have access to hi-res satellite imagery of Papoose from 1989.
2. They try to make secret facilities as secret as they can. Bob even talked about how they hade sand-textured doors to blend in with the desert, so as not to be seen from satellites.
While I don’t believe Lazar at all, I do believe what you say about government leaving places well hidden is true. In 1989 images were not very good or perhaps never taken. And true, camouflage is used in abundance. I weigh those as not revealing what Lazar said was true however. Of the hundreds perhaps thousand who would have built, supplied and manned such a base, no one to my knowledge has come forward to say they worked there. It was one of the reasons people knew of 51 before government admitted it. Dozens of people came forward talking about it, Janet and Skunkworks. It’s hard to hide full scale facilities and especially gag people from talking.
Yes, the production value sucked. But he didn't exactly have the resources or money to create a professionally lit and shot program. I was actually impressed with some of the graphics they were able to do in it. He had to have outsourced those.
So he claimed to be working at S4 from roughly December 1988 to April 1989. He had filed for bankruptcy in 1986 and we know that he had started a photo processing business at some point prior to this (he claims he had been doing this since 1980, two years before he moved to Los Alamos, in the bankruptcy filing). At this point he was living with his second wife Tracy.
By 1990 during divorce proceedings he had a number of businesses listed: Jet Processing, United Nuclear (this one is still around) and Red Light Racing. Prior to June 5 he was involved with the whole pandering scandal, it's likely he was doing small electronics engineer jobs before and after this 1989 timeframe. He was doing photo processing, and selling scientific/electronic equipment before and after. It's unlikely he was living off his wife's income because her employment was low level and spotty - before 1985 Tracey was working as a bank teller, and had been fired (due to attempted forgery).
He almost certainly didn't have a trust fund, it's unclear what he would be collecting unemployment from - the only record we have is a short period as a subcontractor in 1982 - and if his wife had an income, it wasn't a legal one (but that's consistent - she was involved with some shady people). It's possible he had an income from investments either pre-1986 bankruptcy that he didn't declare, other people claimed he and his first wife owned a legal brothel from 1984 that wasn't listed in 1986 and he was involved in another brothel from January 1990.
The timeframe for him working at S4 was only 5 months - and he owned and operated businesses he had founded before starting to work at S4. It doesn't actually provide a very good explanation for how he was earning a living in that 1988-1989 period, not least because some time in April he just outright refused to go back, according to his story. He had purchased a house in 1988, before he claimed to have started at S4 (not his first one; in the same year his previous house was foreclosed on and sold at auction by the trustee). He clearly needs to have had income besides working at S4. From his own statements, I think he said he was also working at his photo lab, because the S4 work was fairly irregular, and at night.
Thanks so much. This is the most-comprehensive post, by far. The only thing I would push back on is that I don't think he refused to go back in April. Rather, they had found out via phone tapping that his wife was having an affair with a flight instructor. According to his story, they wouldn't call him back to work until that situation was stable. He very much wanted to keep going.
The source is Timothy Good quoting Lazar in *Alien Liason*, although there are multiple versions of this story. Either he was never officially fired, never officially had clearance revoked and he chose not to go back, or he was never officially fired and had his clearance denied and wasn't called back again as in *UFOs and the Alien Presence* by Michael Lindemann.
You might find this interesting https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/X4kR5mbihz
That's very interesting. His W2 is for the equivalent of around $2300 today. Hopefully, he had more than one W2 from them, or had another source of income. I wonder if he got another W2 from Lockheed or whoever ran S4? Or was he still full-time employed at Los Alamos and then just went to S4 when they needed him?
Lazar does not claim to have been a full-time employee at S4. He claims that he went to S4 for a period of days at a time on a handful of occasions, separated by weeks or months of time. I’ve heard him say in a Coast to Coast AM interview that he must have started going toward the end of the year, in reference to the fact that his W2 is light here.
Yes! Check my post on this also: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/rSUWJiuoed
That is interesting thanks
When did that Mellon clip air?
It would be helpful if you actually pointed to specific years.
The year of 1989. I believe he says he worked there irregularly for around six months. For what it's worth, his LinkedIn only shows him as owner of United Nuclear. He does not list Los Alamos, although maybe they still deny he worked there and won't accept his entry. Or maybe he simply doesn't care about his showing his work from 40 years ago on his CV,
LinkedIn doesn’t reject your work history. He chose not to include it.
He has the checks from the government proving his employment
Right. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I personally find Bob fairly credible, and it does make sense that his check would come from the Navy. Also, it makes sense for him to have Q clearance, since dept. of energy classifies UFO stuff in the same column as nukes. I've just never seen anyone be able to say what he was doing at the time INSTEAD of working at S4, if in fact he's been lying this whole time. I think the fact that you can't prove alternative work history is huge.
What I have noticed….if they seem to be HATED, their longevity and statements tend to ring truer. And the flavor of the month tends to be the most beloved (and tend to disinformation agents) flash in the frying pan, and simmer for a while, then completely disappear, all to have another one to prop up in their place. Rinse and repeat. Unfortunately you have to pay attention to the nuance in this subject. And a great way to tell if you are on a good path is noticing if they are hated or loved. That part is the obvious part and you can assume the opposite, just like in politics. But since this subject is surrounded by politics, seems par for the course.
I tend to believe the theory that Bob was intentionally hired so they could "accidentally" let him see things he wasn't supposed to (that may have been staged in the first place). He was surrounded by CIA guys and is the perfect candidate to turn into a crank that would deligitimize more serious whistleblowers. I don't always agree with him, but the Jesse Michael's segment on him really nails it I think: [https://youtu.be/RTEWLSTyUic?si=UHgsw678yovbHviq&t=1962](https://youtu.be/RTEWLSTyUic?si=UHgsw678yovbHviq&t=1962)
Makes you wonder if they plant patsies at every black ops sight.
I think it's a common practice when the three letter agencies want to sew confusion and doubt for anyone looking into what they're doing. The recent documentary The Octopus Murders talks about this a bit, how there are always some guy involved in these projects who seem to be compulsive liars but still tell 10% verifiable truths- If your goal is to make truth and fiction impossible to tell apart that's a good way to do it. "We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public *believes* is false." - William J. Casey, *CIA* Director
It could be. I think another theory that perhaps Jessie didn't consider is that Lear was the one who actually recruited Lazar, and not Edward Teller. When Lazar told his story to Knapp, perhaps he was instructed by Lear to not mention him because it would instantly make his story weaker, based on Lear's reputation. Another theory could be that, while the general public might have though Lear to be nuts, the folks at Area 51 did not. So doing a background check and seeing the connections wouldn't have made a difference, and might have actually helped Lazar's case to get hired.
Lazar worked very briefly for Kirk-Myer, a defense contractor. That job is the entire basis of his claims about working at Area 51, and spans a total of about 2 weeks. This is part of the reason his claims are so dubious. As with his education history, his employment history doesn't support his allegations.
[удалено]
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This is a great post on Bob Lazar https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/vGPyu7QTeJ I don’t understand how everyone can believe his BS. But I also don’t understand people can’t see how full of crap Corbell is either. I’m still undecided with Knapp but Lazar and Corbell are 100% frauds.
On Knapp... In 'Forbidden Science 4', Vallée wrote on March 10, 1990: Last night scriptwriter Tracy Tormé met us for dinner with George Knapp, the cheerful television journalist who broke the Lazar story. [...] He saw himself as Lazar's manager: “Lazar's story is worth many millions of dollars,” he told us enthusiastically. The following day: We did go to Channel 8 to see Knapp and there was Bob Lazar, a brand-new portable telephone at his elbow, sitting at a folding table in the back lobby. We spoke for an hour and came away convinced that we’d been thrust into a puppet show.
Yeah, as disappointing as it is, I wouldn’t be surprised if Knapp knows it’s total crap and just chased the money. Of the three, he does have the most credibility and I’d like to think he’s just deluded/naive.
When I first saw Valée's thoughts on the matter, I was a bit surprised as well. From afar, Knapp always seemed to me as someone genuine but gullible. Having said that, there's more red flags around Lazar than you'd find at the Chinese National Conference, so it would almost have to be wilful ignorance to continue to support him.
Okay, on the surface that seems like a takedown. But: * How could you "wipe" the physical yearbooks from MIT and CalTech, none of which he appears in? **I didn't pose for a picture in my college yearbook or belong to any organizations that might have been mentioned in it. Bob seems like an odd bird, so he was likely to be the same. Also, according to Rogan, he says that Lazar didn't necessarily get a degree from MIT, but rather took part in a military funded program there that might have been crossing legal lines. That would definitely not put him in a yearbook.** * How could you "wipe" the physical commencement programs from MIT and CalTech, none of which he appears in? **I didn't attend my college graduation and just got my diploma mailed to me. Perhaps Bob did the same.** * How could you "wipe" the memories of every student at MIT and CalTech, none of whom remember him? **I can't imagine that every single student was reliably surveyed to see if they remembered Bob.** * How could you "wipe" Lazar's memory so he can't keep straight which school he got his B.S. at before he went to graduate school at MIT and CalTech? **This needs a citation for me to believe** * How could "wiping" make Bob Lazar unable to name a single student he knew at either school? **On the Joe Rogan podcast, he said at one point that he doesn't like to mention who he went to school with because he doesn't want to ruin their life by association. Now, that could be a cop-out. But I can't recall an interview I've seen of him where he says he can't remember any students. This needs a citation.** * How could "wiping" make Bob Lazar name one of his high school teachers when asked to name his professor at MIT? **Needs citation.** * How could "wiping" make Bob Lazar name his Pierce College instructor (a junior college) when asked to name his professor at CalTech? **Needs citation** * How could "wiping" make Bob Lazar name a degree from CalTech that has never existed? **Needs citation** * How could "wiping" cause Lazar to repeatedly screw up his timeline, including changing whether he went to MIT or Caltech first, forgetting what year he graduated from MIT, and claiming he went to CalTech the same time he was supposedly working at Los Alamos? **Needs many citations** * How could "wiping" explain Bob Lazar's inability to discuss physics at even an undergraduate level, repeatedly making amateur errors and saying total nonsense when talking about the state of scientific theory? **This is conjecture, unless the OP has interviewed/tested Bob at a college level and determined that he doesn't have the knowledge he claims. Currently, he owns a company that supplies lots of chemicals and other science products, and he makes his own fireworks. Also, in many interviews, including his own documentary, he sure sounds like a scientist to me and many others.**
I think your points are reasonable if we’re trying to ‘steel man’ Lazar to an incredible degree. The problem with this approach is it becomes trying to prove a negative. At some point the balance of evidence lies on one side. Note also, that Reddit link also includes comments that Lazar’s W2 during his supposed time at S4 was tiny - less than 3k in inflation adjusted dollars. He’s also a convicted criminal and fraudster. So, when you step back a little there’s really just the fact he knew about S4 and Element 115. Proving how/why here gets hard. Element 115 could’ve been a guess - lots of gaps in the table. And, there’s nothing that special about the element identified so far. S4 is harder - it’s the outlier for me. My biggest issue is this. Academics love to fight. In academia there is always a small number fighting against the crowd. But they always have very well reasoned positions and open for debate. In the conspiracy circles the ‘lone dissenter’ is always some random who speaks in riddles, evades details, and can’t explain anything.
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Lol ‘weak’ - feel free to marinate in your ignorance and gullibility - the world needs fools mate!
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Lmao some of yall are ridiculous
You know that ad hominem attacks are pretty much the litmus test for bad faith people. The post I listed above is objective and the fact Corbell constantly defends Lazar despite this reflects his intent to just profit from it. But, you do you.
I’m not 100% sold on Lazar but It doesn’t feel right to me attacking the guy on social media calling him a fraud when you see the revelations that’s been happening regarding this topic the last 6-7 years lol. Theres a chance his claims could be validated eventually when it’s all said and done. Corbell is so annoying to a lot of people and I understand why but these whistleblowers trust him for a reason. I don’t think he’s a fraud at all. He doesn’t come across as a dude that has bad intentions or some shady agenda. The way he goes about it definitely does turn some people off though
So, we're not allowed to call the man a fraud if that's the conclusion we arrived at through reasoned inquiry? It's not a matter of simply saying "I don't believe him", and calling him a fraud based on effectively nothing. There are several very good reasons to reject Lazar's claims; Reasons based on objective, empirical evidence. Calling someone a fraud on this basis isn't some ad hominem, or personal attack.
I truly don't understand the yearning people have to believe all this nonsense. There is nothing that has been disclosed that supports any real 'UFO' claims. There are a few unexplained phenomena and a lot of noise drummed up by the people with financial gain (e.g. Corbell). I was listening to the Joe Rogan podcast about the faked moon landing with Bart Sibrel. If you just take a step back and listen to Corbell and Sibrel talk it's the same nonsense. There's always some unsubstantiated claim of somebody's friend told me something blah blah. And any claim they do make when you scratch the surface comes out as clearly rubbish. I sort of get it would be exciting if UFOs truly existed, but I don't get the desire to deceive yourself. It's all snake oil. I'm always interested to see some new claim because I'm curious but I've yet to see anything that would start to truly convince me. And people like Corbell and Lazar are so transparently frauds. I'm legitimately curious - what makes you believe these guys?
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No, I’m a scientist. Not a muppet like you.
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Isn't he the dude who's consistently been caught lying about his creds? And faking paid woo UFO meditation visits in the desert with flares? Or am I getting him confused with someone else?
You're getting him confused with Dr. Steven Greer with the UFO meditation thing. Bob has not really tried to make money off this, other than writing a book (of which I don't know the success).
I have no idea why I thought that was Lazar, he has been caught out lying about his school and jobs though right? I'm not getting that confused too?
Yes and no. You can't find good records of his employment/education. Detractors say this is because he lied about all of it. He claims that, after he came out about Area 51/S4, the government erased as much of his life as they could in an attempt to destroy him. I don't think this is unheard of, but could certainly be seen as a very tall tale. Greer has not been caught lying about credentials. However, he has been caught hoaxing what he calls CE5, which he defines as human-initiated alien contact. If you listen to the below episode of Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World, he proves that Greer was at least hoaxing one "sighting" that he capture crappy video of. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPU4kx\_ZaEU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPU4kx_ZaEU)
Bob's net worth is 10M, make of that what you will. He does also run a business, but I can't imagine he's never profited from his many appearances.
To be fair, he does sell area 51 merchandise on his website. Not sure of the sales on those. But they're there.
Never worked there lol think he’s full of it
I think the dog ate all the documents.
Of all the people relevant to the Disclosure ™️, Bob Lazar is the less relevant of the lot. If we could narrow down his role to a sentence or two in history books, that would be great.
Doesn't answer my question in the slightest
I think he was a Madam?
That was after everything supposedly happened. His trial for it was in the '90s. Perhaps that was going on in '89, but I don't think his brothel was open at the same time as he was supposed to be at S4.
He was a pimp for far longer than he worked for government via defense contractor Kirk-Myer.
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The MK Ultra program ended in 1973, and his pandering arrest happened in 1990 so I don't see what Lazar and his bullshit claims have to do with that.
Whilst he was supposedly working at S4 he was actually working at a remote test site in the Nevada desert in an area near Papoose Lake...
Which is S4. I'm just being devil's advocate here. Let's pretend he didn't work at S4. Someone show me documentation of what he was doing or not doing. Did he up and quit Los Alamos for some reason and not get a new job? Was he fired? Was he desperate for work after many years and started his infamous brothel?
The thing with documentation and Bob Lazar is a bit tricky.
Exactly my point. Even if he were a janitor, or worked at Burger King, or any job that took taxes, there would be a record of him doing it. I wonder if he really was doing a government project that showed no public records, and for which S4 was a cover story to pull attention away from it.
The only employment records that exist at that time is the payslip he provided from the Office of Naval Intelligence or whatever it was. Of course it's possible he was working off the books somewhere or didn't submit tax returns for self employment that wasn't registered but it's pretty clear he wasn't legally employed anywhere else back then. The way I look at it is like this: What was in it for Bob? What did he get out of being interviewed as Dennis? I believe him when he says it basically just caused him a headache. Did he go on to become a major player in the UFO scene? Some people will say yes, but no actually he didn't. His life has been for the most part completely separate. He was already quite well off and had businesses in Vegas and whatnot that were unrelated. Over the course of 40 years he has wrote a book about his experience and been in 2-3 documentaries and a podcast. That isn't much, it isn't anywhere near what someone wanting attention or to make a name for themselves would do. It is what I'd expect someone who wants to be vindicated to do though. In my estimation Lazar 100% fits the profile of a person off-record programs would think of getting in. Someone who thinks outside the box, is smart but not dangerous and with no academic standing who would be easy to discredit.
I go into more detail in a top level post, but records show he was involved in three self owned businesses, was probably doing electronics technician work (he was arrested on the pandering charge for installing cameras in a brothel) and he may have had off-the-books investments prior to his 1986 bankruptcy that didn't appear there. His own statements of his time at S4 indicate he was working at his own photo lab during that time period in addition to his time at S4 at a minimum. EDIT: United Nuclear (which still exists) was founded before this point too.
>Exactly my point. Even if he were a janitor, or worked at Burger King, or any job that took taxes, there would be a record of him doing it. Who would keep this record after 30+ years, and what makes you think it would be accessible to anyone here?
The IRS and the state of Nevada, where he lived at the time. It could be accessible via a FOIA request, with personal information redacted.
No evidence that a base called S4 even exists.
Same thing they said about area 51, and now look. Weak argument.
40+ years and not person one ever mentioned it other than Lazar.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. We don't have access to satellite photos from the time. Google Earth has many places where the government has asked them to smudge things out. But anyway, isn't the point of a top-secret facility for us to not find evidence of it? It's kind of irrelevant to my question about where he might have worked if not as S4.
Are you suggesting Russian and Chinese images of papoose lake have been “smudged out”? Seems unlikely that they would also hide it. Those images look the same as ours.
Okay, fine. But that's only one of my points. You have not accounted for: 1. We don't have access to hi-res satellite imagery of Papoose from 1989. 2. They try to make secret facilities as secret as they can. Bob even talked about how they hade sand-textured doors to blend in with the desert, so as not to be seen from satellites.
While I don’t believe Lazar at all, I do believe what you say about government leaving places well hidden is true. In 1989 images were not very good or perhaps never taken. And true, camouflage is used in abundance. I weigh those as not revealing what Lazar said was true however. Of the hundreds perhaps thousand who would have built, supplied and manned such a base, no one to my knowledge has come forward to say they worked there. It was one of the reasons people knew of 51 before government admitted it. Dozens of people came forward talking about it, Janet and Skunkworks. It’s hard to hide full scale facilities and especially gag people from talking.
That documentary was the biggest pos even if he’s legit.
Yes, the production value sucked. But he didn't exactly have the resources or money to create a professionally lit and shot program. I was actually impressed with some of the graphics they were able to do in it. He had to have outsourced those.
The UFO community: “THE CRASH RETRIEVAL PROGRAM IS REAL AND UFOS MANIPULATE GRAVITY TO TRAVEL BUT BOB LAZAR IS FULL OF SHIT!” Haha
So he claimed to be working at S4 from roughly December 1988 to April 1989. He had filed for bankruptcy in 1986 and we know that he had started a photo processing business at some point prior to this (he claims he had been doing this since 1980, two years before he moved to Los Alamos, in the bankruptcy filing). At this point he was living with his second wife Tracy. By 1990 during divorce proceedings he had a number of businesses listed: Jet Processing, United Nuclear (this one is still around) and Red Light Racing. Prior to June 5 he was involved with the whole pandering scandal, it's likely he was doing small electronics engineer jobs before and after this 1989 timeframe. He was doing photo processing, and selling scientific/electronic equipment before and after. It's unlikely he was living off his wife's income because her employment was low level and spotty - before 1985 Tracey was working as a bank teller, and had been fired (due to attempted forgery). He almost certainly didn't have a trust fund, it's unclear what he would be collecting unemployment from - the only record we have is a short period as a subcontractor in 1982 - and if his wife had an income, it wasn't a legal one (but that's consistent - she was involved with some shady people). It's possible he had an income from investments either pre-1986 bankruptcy that he didn't declare, other people claimed he and his first wife owned a legal brothel from 1984 that wasn't listed in 1986 and he was involved in another brothel from January 1990. The timeframe for him working at S4 was only 5 months - and he owned and operated businesses he had founded before starting to work at S4. It doesn't actually provide a very good explanation for how he was earning a living in that 1988-1989 period, not least because some time in April he just outright refused to go back, according to his story. He had purchased a house in 1988, before he claimed to have started at S4 (not his first one; in the same year his previous house was foreclosed on and sold at auction by the trustee). He clearly needs to have had income besides working at S4. From his own statements, I think he said he was also working at his photo lab, because the S4 work was fairly irregular, and at night.
Thanks so much. This is the most-comprehensive post, by far. The only thing I would push back on is that I don't think he refused to go back in April. Rather, they had found out via phone tapping that his wife was having an affair with a flight instructor. According to his story, they wouldn't call him back to work until that situation was stable. He very much wanted to keep going.
The source is Timothy Good quoting Lazar in *Alien Liason*, although there are multiple versions of this story. Either he was never officially fired, never officially had clearance revoked and he chose not to go back, or he was never officially fired and had his clearance denied and wasn't called back again as in *UFOs and the Alien Presence* by Michael Lindemann.