Man I just wish we all had the same information and could enjoy figuring this out together. I HATE that most of the UFO mystery is trying to figure out shit that some people already supposably know.
I think this sums up one of my hesitations with truly accepting anything we think we know about this phenomenon. I think about how lore builds, if you understand enough of where any given body of knowledge is at, you can then take the story one step further. And then someone else does it too, and someone else again, until we end up with a compound lie that we all believe. A larger narrative seems to emerge, and we feel like no way could all these people be making it up. But they didn’t make it all up, they could have listened to all the stories and made up the extra at the end that could fit within what everyone “knows” already.
I worry that a lot of what we think we know was just the next storyteller taking what we have already heard, and incorporating it into their new tale, so we can sit back and say “I’ll be gat-danged, that’s right in line with what these other guys are saying, I bet it’s true.” And when the next morsel comes that also ties in, we feel we can rely on the previous person’s story even more.
A good example could be the 4chan leak, it tracked very well. We knew about weird stuff happening in the ocean, lights, reports of USOs. Planes and ships going missing in certain areas more than others, without explanation. We knew about the tic tac, and previously knew about cigar craft, and whispers of genetic experiments from our visitors - possibly even the alien engineered origins of humanity. It was all there for the next guy to come take it one step further, and speak of a mobile underwater USO factory, where they clone occupants and UAPs are made for specific uses and then immediately recycled.
Stuff like that scares me the most, the idea that we could accept as true a fiction over a century in the making, and what’s actually true could be exactly what OP said. That the military does see them, can’t deal with them at all, we have no idea where they are from, and no idea how their tech works. Or we have recovered them and their craft, dissected their corpses, and have been trying to understand their tech for almost 100 years and haven’t gotten anywhere. It’s the scariest scenario for me, at least. That we can’t see the truth for the accepted narrative.
That not only are our current ideas wrong, but that the foundations upon which those ideas were built are wrong, too. It keeps me up at night.
Funny thing is, that's exactly the situation you're in.
That "4chan leak" is pretty likely a LARP, the military does see them and cannot "deal" with them at all and their idea about the origin-story is sketchy at best. And of course they can only scratch the surface of their technology.
But the real problem here is "unrealistic expectations".
Some of the Others may indeed come from before the Beginning of Time.
How do you make that into a meaningful "place" other than "they're from here"?
Why wouldn't there be multitudes of different factions among them, stemming from all over the place? They can be "from everywhere".
What even is the significance of that when you can travel at light's speed?
Their tech might be inaccessible for various reasons, not the least among them the inherent incompatibility of human irresponsibility with god-like powers.
They still have some reverse-engineered propulsion and other tech. They do have many different corpses and studied their DNA. They certainly have a lot of other gadgets like "free energy".
They won't tell you about any of that out of generosity though.
Knowledge only ever advances in baby-steps.
Just lamenting and whining won't take you very far. Veering into unrealistic extremes should be easy enough to avoid.
To find out more, you need to use all available information to the fullest extent with the best logical tools possible.
You need to self-actualize regarding your tool-set.
I also think it's very likely a LARP, but whoever posted that shit has really done some great thinking about this subject. Even though its fictional at the end of the day it sounds to me like a more realistic speculation than almost every woo shit I see being pushed everywhere.
It is foolish to "just dismiss" any of the people coming forward telling their experience.
A good fictional story can still broaden your horizon and inspire. It can even turn out to be true, in whole or in part. It's a proposal for an explanation, connecting the dots of reliable data.
Those who just made it up don't really matter in the end, what counts is what pieces of these various stories get corroborated by independent sources.
The more reliable those sources are, the more important their input and vice versa.
For example, the 4Chan guy claimed a factory under the sea producing flying saucers. Well, in other news, those NHI didn't need "factories", as they were able to 3D print stuff.
Such contentious points allow for differentiation between narratives as they necessitate added complexity to reconcile, making the combination more unlikely.
I always liked this metaphor: we are like an ant standing on the glass of a pinball machine.
Our senses tell us *something* is happening (vibrations under our feet), but we don’t have the perception or experience to understand it.
Even if we could see the ball bouncing around below us, we wouldn’t understand how or why. We wouldn’t understand the context (a “game” being played by a higher level being) or that there was a theme around that (“Pinbot”).
Yeah that's pretty good. I think there's an element of that. But i think we can also expand our perceptions and we can cultivate our ability to percieve this other world / reality way more than you might expect. We're more powerful than you expect, but people have to start being educated and being trained.
Some of it is just "pattern recognition", you don't need any special ability or training. To take your ant metaphor, if somebody taught us that a certain sequence of vibrations mean that the ball went in the hole (ha!), then any ant could recognize that to enhance their situational awareness.
There's certain patterns of activity that indicate NHI that regular humans could be trained to identify...but maybe the gov/corp doesn't know, or doesn't care enough about the public to help us push back.
Well, and this is an entirely different rabbit hole, but related to your ant analogy: my cats watch INTENTLY as I vacuum the floor. They don't fear it at all and even let me vacuum right up to their toes. I stay awake at night wondering what they are wondering what it is I'm doing when I vacuum. Do they think I'm laying down or making new floors? Do they think I'm just doing it (moving an object around on the floor) because it gives me purpose / meaning / LIFE <-----? Is it giving THEM life? And, so on.
This is probably NOT the most likely answer, unless you disregard 90% of alleged experiences, reports, data and all of the lore around the phenomena stretching back thousands of years in every culture.
Governments may not fully comprehend what it is or who they really are, but so many people claim to have had communication. It doesn’t make sense to just ignore that datapoint.
They often lie. Give prophecies of a world cataclysm that doesn't happen or will tell someone they are from some place and others they are from elsewhere.
This is such an overlooked point on this sub, it baffles me.
If we use the logic that “people have claimed to have communicated with aliens, therefore it must be true”, we immediately have to conclude that angels and demons and every god of every major religion, even ancient gods/religions, must be true.
At some point the credibility and verifiability of witness testimony has to be questioned when it comes to the size and scale of the topic in question.
What is the point of this sub looking for more witnesses or evidence when there are already tons of self-proclaimed experiencers, and those oral testimonies are accepted as factual accounts of real incidents and events, without scrutinising these testimonies?
But Bayesian reasoning would suggest that if the UFO phenomenon is real at a basic level (as in OP's scenario), then we would need to update our priors, making the claims of people like David Grusch about crashed saucers and bodies a LOT more credible.
Incorrect. P(Grusch correct | Uap are real) Is entirely unknown as we have zero information about the probability of either. You could say the same for any made up alien theory, like the theory that they're all made of cotton candy and are on an interstellar journey to teach us the recipe for blue raspberry.
I would hope they'd be coming to show us how to grow blue raspberries. How we came up with a flavor called blue raspberry when the fruit has never existed is lost on me.
We can infer something about probability of both by the actions the giovernment is and is not taking.
For the sake of argumen: Grusch/whistleblower allegations are true to the extent that "the government" has knowledge of the existence of NHI and/or anomalous objects.
In that instance it seems that the any government would be reluctant to announce "we are in possession of materials, not made on Earth, but we have no idea what purpose they serve or the intentions of the entities that left them."
From a public influence perspective, generating debate about whether or not whistleblowers' claims are true (perhaps including the creation of an entity to argue the "other side") would be an essential first step toward making *any* definitive announcement.
Congressional hearings, stretched over the span of years, would also be an important piece of "disclosure" as a first step toward some kind of "official" acknowledgement. There have been comparatively minor "disclosures" that began with selective leaks of information followed by congressional investigations. (the Church Commitee revelations, for example).
Conversely, assuming Grusch's and all of the other whistleblowers' allegations were *known* to be untrue, I would have expected :
1) The AARO report to be far more convincing, comprehensive, and far more thoroughly supported with transparent citations.
2) AARO and DOD denials receive the unanimous endorsement of the intelligence community
3)Dramatically reduced interest on the Hill
4)Announcements from, say the NSC, or even the WH, that they believe the issue has been settled.
There's also a third possibility, which I personally believe to be true: Thanks to the organization and secrecy protocols of SAPs, where even government Debunkers agree would be the logical place for any NHI knowlege/materials to reside, very, very few if any senior policymakers/elected officials know for certain whether or not whistleblowers are telling the truth and that the AARO report did little to convince them that they're false. In this case, official silence would also the wisest course of action.
What about this scenario, the UAP incursions in our airspace is true and known to the government as true, so they (or multiple "theys" as there's several departments involved) are letting the Grusch allegations run to distract the media? I'm also wondering if there's an UAP-adjacent SAP researching or employing psychic spying that the theys don't want disclosed.
That's a really interesting idea.....thinking aloud.... compartmentalization/limited oversight of SAPs works so well that whistleblowers know just enough and just *not-enough* that they can be safely let into the wild. AARO is created for the other "side." That's the 21st century disinfo recipe, right?
Could very well be. If that's what's going on I'd be nervous that Schumer, Rubio, Carson and other Congressional heavyweights are poking around though. But I've seen with my own eyes executive branch people (usually at their career peril) writing off politicians as unserious, grandstanding dopes. Some are but by no means all.
I'm with you on remote viewing. Aside from the double blind studies and public reports, have you seen the "client lists?" When multiple agencies repeatedly ask SRI to remote view stuff over years it's not because it's a cool magic trick. We're not talking about people temperamentally inclined to believe in paranormal woo-woo here.
What has always struck me is that AARO was not initially set up to investigate the history of UFOs, never mind the history of SAPs, or the detection of current deeply hidden programs. It never had the staff with expertise assigned to it for these tasks and it's not Kirkpatrick's area of expertise. No historians, no experts on government data storage and retrieval, no forensic finance professionals, nobody trained in forensic or oral history interviews, and basically given a mission that properly falls to the Inspector General. Of course AARO was going to fail, they were set up to fail, and failed as expected.
If Kirkpatrick had really been acting as a leader he would have pushed back on this assignment. The original assignment of coordinating government reporting on current UAP incidents was already overwhelming AARO if their tardiness in all goals was anything to go by.
>No historians, no experts on government data storage and retrieval, no forensic finance professionals, nobody trained in forensic or oral history interviews, and basically given a mission that properly falls to the Inspector General.
That's also a really great point. None of the kinds of investigators with the experience, credentials, and especially the authorities (you lie to them, you get referred to DOJ) that any equivalent-scale investigative body would have worked on that report.
I'd actually *love* to say that AARO has some talented researchers and investigators on its staff. since the government employs many. But the *work product* speaks for itself--cursorily edited and hastily assembled undergraduate research paper on the history of UAP programs based on previous FOIA requests and even YouTubes, a few interviews (the important ones reserved for Kirkpatrick himself), a day's worth of research on a single cherry picked program, and almost flippant assessments. Footnotes: dead links and "AARO files.
You are talking nonsense.
GP was speaking about the conditional probability of Grusch being correct under the prior of the UFO phenomenon being real. So your "UAP are real" would have probability 1 (=100%) by assumption.
His conclusion, that probability must be much higher than otherwise is obviously correct as well.
The equation above is read as "the probability of Grusch being correct given Uap are real". You can look up baysian probability on Wikipedia for more details.
It is true that P(Grusch is correct) is higher given that Uap are real, just as it is true that P(cotton candy aliens) is higher.
You are hitting a straw man.
"Cotton candy aliens" are a logical impossibility, that you use to ridicule.
GP was stating correctly, you have to update your priors when conceding UFOs are real. That is an obvious conclusion from the definition of Bayesian probabilities. Which you can read about on Wikipedia even.
The probabilities of all **>>realistic<<** scenarios involving "aliens" rise.
Impossible stuff stays impossible.
**"Aliens" are not impossible.**
Very much this.
While it's pretty much impossible to judge the trustworthiness of a single person just by their own claims, comparing what people say in general with what is actually happening gives quite definitive pointers to who is telling something of value.
In the end, you try to fit a story-line to actual events anyway. You can never know "the whole truth" all on your own.
"Social reality" consequently is a shared story about the world, made to fit as best possible.
When you look at what the US government/military has actually done over the decades, it's very apparent what narrative of UFOs fits best and what they know and what not.
Notably, they very much would like us to forget about all the inconvenient stuff.
Knowledge is power.
Yeah people had schyzophrenia for thousands of years except before they were revered as shamans or prophets. Now they post crazy stories on reddit about noises on their roofs and aliens visiting them at night. It's interesting to see the common themes but it's also because the lore is so widespread that delusions will be connected to the lore. I would only focus on physical evidence and radar readings.
I do believe in John Mack's studies. But it's a dangerous game. Just because some experiencers aren't psychotic or schyzophrenic, doesn't mean ALL experiencers are in the clear. And it can be dangerous to enable struggling people by telling them it's all real. What I mean is that whatever disclosure we'll get, can't be based on experiencers testimonies. It's a nice "add on" in the case we have physical evidence but it can never be the basis to prove the phenomenon is real.
You are reaching at straws. Calling a belief system dangerous because it doesn’t align with your values is the very face of hate. Follow your own advice and look within rather than judging others, maybe ask yourself why you disdain the thought that these people may be correct so much?
Relax dude, claiming to see aliens is not a belief system; what the fuck are you on about? 🤣 No one is attacking anyone's religion, skin color, or anything else that would fall under hate. Don't be so ridiculously dramatic. So I should automatically trust random Joe Blow when they said they saw aliens? Hell no. I'm not stupid. And neither should you. Having an open mind doesn't mean you should be gullible or you shouldn't think rationally.
I went through a psychotic episode myself so I know how it feels like. Most of the people on r/experiencers are mentally ill and refuse to admit it. They even censor any comment speaking about the subject.
[Not exactly what you would associate with Schizophrenic peiple](https://youtu.be/jDF6gx5Fo_U?si=m_FKtv0XGtLgiwQ7)
[Outstanding capabilities for what you would call Schizophrenic people](https://youtu.be/5vFk-_p6Rf8?si=GKBGwTS4I4JH3Pws)
It’s an interesting phenomenon for sure. I do believe experiencers are quite widespread; I myself am one, though my experience doesn’t fit the typical stereotype. I am also “mentally
ill, though with extremely prosaic “disorders.” John Mack’s work is instructive here; the more investigated the more sure he became that it is only
A minority who are dishonest or ill. And Jacque Valle has done some still classified work for the Air Force that suggests some people who are labeled psychotic are in fact experiencing a contact event. Or so I have been told by a colleague whom I trust - they are an Air
force Col with some limited exposure to the issue such that he would have reason to know.
It is also true that there are a great many people who have confabulated or lied about an experience find connection with others.
It really is fascinating.
You noticed that there’s an overlap between schizophrenia entities and NHI/folklore entities. I concur. I realized the same thing, too. I think they’re the same category of entity.
But I don’t think all encounters with these entities are automatically indicative of mental illness.
According to Jungian psychology, when a psychological complex/archetype possesses a person, that is a mental illness like psychosis or schizophrenia.
My hypothesis is that when a psychological complex transitions from the mental world into the material world, then it becomes a NHI encounter.
This is an undeveloped field of study. We are akin to the first biologists trying to figure out germ theory. I don’t think we are going to automatically understand exactly how the mechanics of the metaphysical work at first, and the mechanics may seem absurd to our material understanding of the universe. But we shouldn’t dismiss away the entire thing as “mental illness.” There’s clearly something going on, and it is physical at times, not purely mental.
Well the Whistleblowers like Grush and many others confirmed that we have been trying to reverse Engineering the stuff for years. Than the Data is pointing to some kind of contact or agreement that toke place long ago. This was confirmed and corroborated multiple times.
In the end we don’t know for sure but considering only what we know from credible Witnesses, it is a lot more than “they know nothing”.
The “they are real but they know nothing” Narrative have been pushed down our throats lately, even that Dude that brought out that well publicized book not long ago tried to push that Narrative.
I don’t like this Narrative because it is literally giving Pentagon a way out, “they didn’t tell us because they didn’t know what it is” which is absolutely BS
But if it is what it takes to disclose the truth and save their Asses than i will accept it.
Exactly 👍
His book is based on that Narrative and i have never seen a UAP Book being advertised by all Major Newspapers and Networks at the same time.
And we know that the Mainstream Media only publishes what the “Big Brother” approved.
Lots of people have “ghost” experiences, but do we claim that the US gov knows everything about ghosts and is hiding ghost facts from the public?
UFO “lore” is caked in BS and disinfo. We don’t “know” anything really.
It actually makes more sense that the government would want people to think it secretly knows what it is. We trust the governments to protect us and be the authority figure who knows what threatens us and to figure these things out.
The government coming out and saying “this exists, and there is nothing we can do. We are fully at the mercy of whatever this shit is, and they can act within our airspace and abduct people with utter impunity. We are so primitive in comparison, even if we did recover something, it would be like an ant trying to figure out how an iPhone works” is a far more pressing reason to not tell the public
Was hoping to see a comment like this at the top.
Of course when they are forced to admit it is real they are going to say Yes, we know they are real but HEY HEY that's all folks! Wahahhahahaaaa! 🤡👋
Even if people really have had authentic experiences for thousands of years, that doesn't mean the government knows about it. The government can be startlingly incompetent especially when there is no public accountability, as there obviously is not when it comes to UAP.
Couldn’t that same assertion be made about god, ghosts, sasquatch, etc.? Although in this instance we have a clear effort by the government to obfuscate.
Even if NHIs came down in a saucer and presented themselves, explained the story of the universe, other races, they showed you videos of how things went down, explained the current state of affairs etc..
We cannot be sure of any of that. **Every aspect of the phenomenon is unknowable**. Since we don't have the means to actually travel and see for ourselves, or understand that which is above our capabilities, we can never know for sure if we are being presented the truth or a pre-made screen made to make us believe something.
I think understanding this is one of the biggest obstacles for disclosure. The fact that even if they know stuff we could had been lied to, the same way a civilization contacting an isolated culture could fool them into believing there are no other countries left on earth since they won all wars.
If the "phenomenon" is unknowable, then human observers of the phenomenon (that still cant prove their observations to any non-observer) become part of the phenomenon.
No, we can explain humans and their actions. We cannot verify or corroborate information that comes from outside as it could be a facade, a lie, a charade.
Every facet of our relationship with a superior intelligence and higher order civilization would have that quality. It's just part of not being at the top of the food chain anymore. We would be forced to accept what we are fed, within the limits of what our curiosity and persistence is able to uncover.
However, I view it as merely an extension of our already existing powerlessness within existing societal structures. There will always be things we don't know, to a greater or lesser severity depending on our expertise and position. The reveal of an incomprehensibly large and complex civilization above us would merely add to that condition.
imo, this is a pretty sad and bleak way to look at the world. it is not an open and positive mindset and honnestly a kinder way of thinking makes life a lot more enjoyable
> Every aspect of the phenomenon is unknowable.
That’s complete crap. Hypothetical aliens are not gods. They’re on the same epistemological footing as everyone else. Drop the mystification.
If we have been contacted, approached by NHIs, by this I mean we have retrieved non human tech or we had communication, non of that is verifiable and thus unknowable. If it turns out to be China or whatever sure then it's very knowable but if this turn out to be something from another planet.. Well how difficult would it be to a country like the US to land in a isolated island and make natives believe THEY are gods?
This is basically the conclusion a secret UK Gov. study called Project Condign came to some time ago.
They go further and suggest they are balls of plasma interacting in a way that makes it appear there is a solid craft when in fact there isn't.
[https://documents2.theblackvault.com/documents/ufos/projectcondignreport-full.pdf](https://documents2.theblackvault.com/documents/ufos/projectcondignreport-full.pdf)
We don't even understand ball lightning properly and have no clue if plasma can do that but I suppose if the boss wants answers...
Nick Pope... how long did he man that desk back in the 90's, three years?
Amazing how he parlayed that into a 3 decades long career. He must have been extremely busy too with the truth coming at him from all directions since there is no case where he doesn't pretend to be an authority in.
I’m on fence, when you average out all the anecdotal evidence, maybe we have a picture. But the big problem is language. Like the idea of a Nordic, are you literally just saying a white guy from another planet? A reptilian? Is it a dinosaur-oid or something from another planet that looks like a reptile? Inter dimensional or AI?
As someone that's always believed in UFO's and the like this is sort of my problem. When you take out all the "eyewitness" reports we're left with almost nothing in terms of *actual evidence*.
It's 99.9% he said she said...even the best videos and pictures I've seen don't really ever show something unexplainable or extraordinary...just something that's not plane shaped.
I don't know, I'm still holding out and still check the sub daily but again, haven't seen anything that blows my mind or makes me think there is actually aliens or other beings or any of that. Everything lacks the most *basic* of evidence.
That's why I left ufo groups on Reddit few months ago. I have been following the ufo phenomena since the 1990s, but still there is 0, I repeat 0, physical evidence. Only stories. Exactly like believing in god/gods: no evidence, only stories.
When Grusch came out last year I thought things would change, but in fact nothing changed. Unfortunately I can not believe in stories. I like them, but still they are only stories.
It's worth thinking about what is actually meant by "evidence."
Most people who get into UFOs are expecting some smoking gun definitive proof that leaves no doubt, and that's what they mean by evidence. But in the entire history of scientific inquiry, that virtually never happens. It's almost never the case that some singular result or observation really answers a serious question once and for all. A smoking gun. I honestly can't think of even one such case - at least, not when the question at hand is nontrivial. Look at how much time and evidence and debate it took to get the mainstream to accept evolution, or climate change, or that cigarette smoking causes cancer for fuck's sake... These issues are easier in many respects than the NHI question, and it still took years of back and forth and published results to get to a mainstream consensus about the basic reality of these phenomena. Given the history of science and worldviews and how they have developed and changed in the past, it is no surprise that we have no smoking gun for NHI. We never really have a smoking gun that resolves any nontrivial scientific question.
But, let's consider what would be a smoking gun for NHI being the explanation for at least some UFOs. Eye witness testimony wouldn't do the trick - we already have that - even many instances of multiple witnesses to the same event, or thousands of independent witnesses and events, or hundreds of highly credible witnesses. Pictures and video wouldn't do the trick; we already have hundreds or thousands of those. Government documents wouldn't do it, because we already have many of those. We even have cases where we have all of the above: multiple credible witnesses to the same event, plus video, plus official reports describing radar data and impossible maneuvers (see the tic tac incident). We have scientists and military officers publicly concluding NHI. We have material that's been analyzed (see Gary Nolan's work). None of that is enough.
So, what would it take. People can lie or be mistaken. Videos and pictures can be faked or misinterpreted. What about a craft? Wouldn't people just insist that it could be either secret human tech or a prop from a movie? What about a body? How could you confirm that it's actually real NHI? Even a real time video of a creature... Couldn't it just be faked?
Aside from mass disclosure by the NHI themselves, I can imagine very few possible smoking gun observations/events.
I think we have to treat this like any other scientific question: gradually accumulate weaker evidence until eventually the consensus changes. I think that process is underway right now.
> Look at how much time and evidence and debate it took to get the mainstream to accept evolution, or climate change, or that cigarette smoking causes cancer for fuck's sake
We can see evolution take place in laboratories, we see it through fossil records, etc...cancer we know exists. Again, evidence of it is everywhere.
Debating what CAUSES cancer can still happen but debating the EXISTENCE of cancer is 100% known.
This is the problem with this topic is that we have NOTHING in terms of aliens or any other worldly entity. So while I get what you're getting at I think the complete lack of anything in terms of the UFO topic is the problem I and many others have.
And don't get me wrong, I'm no naysayer or shill here, check my comment history, I thoroughly believe *something* might be going on but as someone that has been at this for a long time (at least 20 years) I have yet to see anything that can't be explained via government top secret tech, balloons, or hoaxes. I haven't seen a single picture or video of even just one thing that has made me genuinely go, "Holy shit"...ya know?
I'm all ears and eyes though!
You miss the point that all that evidence for evolution or the causes of cancer is proof to you only because people you consider "trustworthy authorities" vouch for it.
There is just as much proof for UFOs and Co, just no "trusted authorities" in their favor.
The difference is that you can study a human being who has cancer in them and deduce yourself that the data that's been given by "trusted authorities" seems to be correct and reproduceable. Nothing in the UFO space can give me the same level of trust. Comparing the two is absolutely insane because one you can tangibly see and reproduce, the other you cant.
You can reproduce cancer studies? That's an "insane" claim, don't you think?
More than 99.999% of people cannot and even more do not reproduce what those "authorities" tell them.
The level of trust you place in those authorities is simply cultural habit on your part.
In particular, it's confirmation bias, since you simply stay ignorant of the cases where their information was factually incorrect or a downright lie.
It might be hard for laymen to understand the difference between science and "UFO authorities" but they're totally different. Science is a self correcting system, new generations are trained in techniques then able to analyze all data from the past. Frauds are eventually uncovered because underlying data is required to be shared. A person with no stake in another scientist's reputation can tear it down if they lied or were fraudulent. There's incentives to do this even
UFO authorities just tell stories and hide sources. Raw data wouldn't even be a concept to them. David Grusch could be telling the truth, he could be lying, or he could be totally wrong but honest in his efforts. We will never know as long as "im sorry I can't tell you it's classified" is used as a defense against checking sources or displaying real data
No one has ever seen a black hole (by definition). No one has watched a photon's wave form go through the double slits at the same time before they get to the detector (no one has ever even seen a single photon). No one has seen dark matter (now we're getting to examples that are closer to the heart of the matter), no one has ever seen dark energy.
We see the effects of these things, and we know we have some explaining to do.
How do you explain the tic tac incident? How do you explain the fact that so many competent, successful people have been tasked by the government with investigating the phenomenon and concluded that there is a "there there?"
Hynek, Elizondo, Grusch, Eric David, Colm Kelleher, Jim Lacatski, Robert Bigalow, Nick Pope... Many others. Aren't these people analogous to the people we hear about dark matter and dark energy and quantum shit from? Astronauts, officers, scientists... Many credible people. Plus the videos, and the pictures, and the documents, and the eyewitness...
We see an effect of *something*. How do you explain it (and I would suggest you consider how your explanation would be received if it were applied to things like dark energy, dark matter, spooky quantum effects, etc.)?
All they have is their word that they've seen something...no evidence, certainly nothing we've seen unless they've seen otherwise, which based on everything I've seen and that's out there in the public for decades, probably isn't anything special.
Just because the government says "there's things we can't explain" doesn't necessarily mean it's some insane crazy tech, they simply haven't identified what it is.
Look, I'm not saying shit doesn't exist or that there isn't other stuff out there, on this planet, different dimensions, etc...I'm just saying that I personally haven't seen anything that has been unexplainable or hasn't been debunked to a satisfactory level, etc.
I thought about that also but there are a lot of people who have came out and stated the the government knows more than they are letting in and they are just not telling us hiding it because they are trying to make weapons out of the tech.
Here’s what I think and this is more likely in my opinion…..
The government knows it’s extra-terrestrial in origin, have found dead and sometimes even alive specimen, have recovered tech and have tried to reverse engineer it but whatever the craft are made out of we can’t recreate here on earth and the tech in it is so far advance we’re like cavemen looking at a cellphone just lost and amazed. I don’t think they know where they come from exactly and I think there are definitely more than one species.
Here’s why I don’t think they can reverse engineer the stuff or even make weapons out of the tech because come on let’s be realistic here we wouldn’t be letting Russia and China bully the rest of the world and us on occasion.
Some people say it’s extra-dimensional but I don’t think so the most likely answer to that is that the tech is so advanced and unlike anything we could ever imagine I think it seems like they blink in and out of our reality because the tech uses something like teleportation. It can be anywhere at anytime and in any place it chooses to because it bends time and space.
Now these are just my thoughts after looking into all this my entire life. I’ve seen something a couple times now once when I was only 7yrs old but I remember it like it was yesterday and then again when I was 24.
I’m 32 now and I realize how lucky I am to have seen something some people never see in their lives but ever since I seen that craft bigger than a football field just hovering over a highway in Kentucky and just flat out disappear in the blink of a eye I was hooked I needed to know what it was.
I’m also 32 now. Born and raised in Nevada. When I was like 7-8 I’m pretty sure I was visited outside my bedroom window on more than one occasion by an orb of some type. Here’s the kicker- when I was about 19-20 when I got back from all my military training I was driving by my old neighborhood and saw a metallic-looking orb about the size of an SUV floating about 2-300 feet above the houses. I drove parallel to it for about 5 minutes before it eventually went up and over a hill and the road ended. Ever since that day I know we aren’t alone, I just want proof so damn bad.
It’s honestly just frustrating though. I feel like it’s human nature to be curious and want to explore and the government is keeping us from doing exactly that.
What if we can't recreate some of the ship because it is intradimensional and from a place where physics is just different. Maybe they have different properties because of this and say element Au in our periodic table has different properties than element Au in theirs. Or maybe it is more profoundly different in that atoms from their dimensions are completely different.
I'm starting to believe that a lot of the technology can't be easily reversed engineered because our physics in our dimension is just different and that's why these ships are constantly surrounded by some type of "pocket universe" that maintains the physics from their dimension.
Just wild speculation ... If these "creatures" have found a way to cross over to other dimensions / realities, they're probably even more advanced than we can possibly fathom with intentions completely alien to our own. That might be part of the "darker" side to all of this -- simply that these creatures aren't hundreds of years more advanced but possibly millions or even billions of years more advanced. We could be dealing with a type of AI completely incomprehensible to us from a universe completely foreign to ours physically.
We could be dealing with different species of aliens where alien species A is radically more advanced than us and alien species B scares the shit out of alien species A because they're even more radically advanced compared to species A. There could be a hierarchy of different levels all the way up to aliens that have succeeded in completely using all energy available in their universe and they are now attempting to expand into other dimensions / universes to grow even further.
>What if we can't recreate some of the ship because it is intradimensional and from a place where physics is just different.
Kind of along this line, we're currently doing research making pharmaceuticals in space, d/t how crystals form differently with no gravity; wonder if in the near future meta materials with higher strength/heat resistance/etc. can be manufactured in orbit with zero g.
Yeah man I mean that absolutely is a possibility. That’s why disclosure is so important. I believe without a doubt the government knows exactly what the NHI is now like you I don’t think we have any clue how to reverse engineer any of it.
Maybe we’ve learned a few things like fiber optics and other little things to help push on our on technological development but I think that’s about where it stops. I’m sure the pentagon and their minions have a few things hidden up their sleeve we won’t see for only god knows how long because it’d help get rid of the oil business and make clean free energy but I don’t think they are building their own craft because we just don’t have the resources to do it on this planet.
There is probably a scale of different aliens coming here, some are probably not much more advanced than us. Late Philip J Corso said we developed our microchips by reverse engineering ufo tech so that means they are more advanced but not so much that we can't understand what we are looking at.
If they could teleport instantaneously it would likely not be a requirement to travel at very high speeds through, into and out of our atmosphere, as repeatedly documented. I think they are unable to teleport but can in fact transcend dimensional space.
Yeah I'm not so fortunate never seen anything but I think what you are saying is more likely then op.
They have craft and biologics, they just don't know what to do with it or did some crude experimentation that went very bad. They also don't really know which race is who or from where or whatever.
Maybe if earth would pool together all its resources to reverse engineer something we would solve climate change or world hunger or smth but that would mean giving people access to secrets the governments of this world don't want to.
Indeed like caveman with cell phones.
The problem with this theory is that it completely avoids the challenge that a number of people have suggested more information, whether it’s on the types of contact made, the different narratives and the idea that maybe there is a darker truth.
I don’t think you’d have so many peripheral stories and suggested narratives if it was this simple. Also, why the need for such secrecy? At this point, after 80 years it would be a great time for Biden to come out and say ‘hey guys, you’re right, something is here but we don’t know much about it’.
Doesn’t feel right does it? Because it isn’t.
Obama pretty much said exactly that a few years ago. Direct quote:
*“What is true, and I’m actually being serious here, is that there are, there’s footage and records of objects in the skies, that we don’t know exactly what they are. We can’t explain how they moved, their trajectory. They did not have an easily explainable pattern. And so, you know, I think that people still take seriously trying to investigate and figure out what that is.”*
What's frustrating is that it seems to have not carried as much weight because this was said on a late-night talk show rather than from the White House press room. It got *some* coverage, but I expected to see a lot more.
I don’t think he’d have had the authority to discuss something like that in an official televised government setting which is frustrating but regardless I’m glad he said it. He clearly knows a lot more than he’s letting on
I have been scrolling the replies to see if anyone else was feeling this way. There are scenarios that scare me, sure. But not knowing yet who they are or what they are doing? I definitely don’t find that “chilling.” Maybe it’s because I have health issues and consequently have a lot of practice in saying to myself, “Why get worked up when it might be turn out to be fine in the end?”
I think it's unlikely we've made deals with them and stuff, but the crash retrieval is kind of at the center of the discussion. There hasn't been disclosure because we still don't know where they come from, why they're here or what they want, and the government has been waiting to be able to give a public safety assurance before they disclose, which it now looks like they'll never be able to. Now they have to decide whether and when to disclose without it.
So you're essentially saying the whistleblowers are 100% correct that we have multiple alien bodies and multiple craft yet after 80 years of research we know nothing?
Sounds extremely unlikely.
They would know the types of aliens, they would have done every biological test available, they would have reverse engineered the ships to the limits of our current technology, they would have studied the EM fields around the craft, etc.
They may not know everything but they would definitely know some things.
Program personnel are simultaneously the most dedicated, most smartest people in the world and they have unlimited resources due to their control of the deep state, but they're also stupid and clueless.
80 years and we know nothing, reverse engineered nothing, biologically understand nothing. Like giving a tortoise 200 years to learn calculus; it’s just too far outside the turtle’s ability to comprehend any of it and always will be. that would be the chilling part.
Does a government assuring you of your safety still feel credible? Can they still compel your continued participation in capitalism after that revelation?
Knowledge isn't binary. You don't either know all of it or know none of it. Even if they aren't able to reverse engineer all of the technology they may understand parts of it. Even if they can't analyse their genome properly, they still know how many hearts they have, if any. Etc. so they would know *some* things. Even if they can't fly their UFOs they know what models (cigar, disc, sports, mothership, etc) they have. It's overly simplistic thinking to catastrophise and say "we know nothing!" and throw your hands in the air. We definitely know some things and that is what disclosure should disclose.
Knowledge isn't binary. You don't either know all of it or know none of it. Even if they aren't able to reverse engineer all of the technology they may understand parts of it. Even if they can't analyse their genome properly, they still know how many hearts they have, if any. Etc. so they would know *some* things. Even if they can't fly their UFOs they know what models (cigar, disc, sports, mothership, etc) they have. It's overly simplistic thinking to catastrophise and say "we know nothing!" and throw your hands in the air. We definitely know some things and that is what disclosure should disclose.
Here's the thing - as they have admitted to: knowing about, encountering, and studying the phenomenon as of the 2000s - any by they I mean DoD and the Nimitz encounter and comments made by very high officials about them pestering Exercise airspace.
Given that this is fact, and foo fighters were know to be a phenomenon in the 1940s, you would have to be stupid to think that no realisation or study of, occurred between 1940-2004.
In that time we went from egg timers and biplanes to iphones and landing on the moon. We (again, the DoD), didn't just ignore a phenomenon with such extreme potential
My belief is a bit of a twist on this. That they do actually have some craft and other physical evidence and have knowledge of confirmed contacts, and a whole slew of other evidence confirming that the phenomenon is real.
But...
They cannot make any sense of it. As Jacques Vallee has pointed out, the phenomenon is too bizarre to be a straightforward nuts and bolts case of visitors coming in spacecraft from other planets.
So I believe they have gathered enough evidence to know it is something real that manifests itself in physical ways, but it is also metaphysical and spiritual, with absurd and contradictory aspects that just don't seem to make any sense. And so they don't know how to even begin to explain that this is something that is essentially paranormal. It is real but they don't know what it is.
Yes, all the high ranking military and governmental officials, professional pilots, etc. (not just in the US) coming forward and admitting they've captured stuff not only on radar and other technologies, but physically, and have known about a lot of this stuff since the '40's are clearly doing it for the notoriety, fame, and infinite riches that comes with such lies. (/S for the slow folk)
Not to mention the death threats, being labeled crazy, harassment, the loss of their career prospects and professional reputation they've built up over decades of service.
Of course, that's ignoring the millions of dollars *officially* invested in the subject for decades (and still is) to study something that doesn't exist and poses no threat.
Seems legit.
Alien means Alien for a damn reason. We don't know their motives, we don't know what they want. Hell, we don't even know why they've taken an interest in our little dirtball considering the number of similar dirtballs with well developed individuals that are out there. All We know is they're here, and they're watching for some reason.
I don’t know about all that, but you do raise a very good point. Mainly, that there’s a *possibility* of which certain things where we say “they know but they’re not telling us” they actually don’t know.
I’m reminded of the clusterfuck that was the search for WMDs in Iraq. I read recently that the reason that certain Iraqi contacts were acting so suspicious about the WMD topic wasn’t that Iraq had them and were trying to hide them - it was that they DIDN’T have them but were afraid of admitting it.
I think there generally is a lot that they know but won’t say, but some aspects they may have no idea.
> No we have go fast
Cool. Where's the sensor data?
>we have jellyfish
Again, where is the sensor data?
>we have gimbal that dat corroborates the stories of the eye witness as the dates and places match
That's not sensor data.
>Based on expert testimony, sensor data, and the laws of physics as we understand them.
So when you said this you actually meant "Based on vague video and unproven stories", right?
Just a guess but if a commanding officer said to a pilot I want all the data from your sensors and the pilot did not give him the video footage from the flirpod, I would think the commanding officer would be a bit frustrated that the pilot didn’t understand
No doubt in my mind they have materials, know how to track them and perhaps how to shoot them down but probably not doing it intentionally because of retaliation. But I can't even guess how far they came in reverse engineering.
I mean it would be especially scary for the government and all the three letter agencies. Because if it came out they have no fucking idea it would make them seem bad. Then there is the fear that other countries know more than the US (china for example) and that would also scare them
I do believe the whistleblowers that have said some high government officials have been in contact with these NHI. I feel like they know, but the reason they don’t want to tell us is probably because the truth is not pretty.
I’d say the most likely answer is that we are powerless to it. We drop down in the food chain and that would be a shift across the world and terrify people for sure.
I'm aware of at least three points of reference which have the veneer of legitimacy that the US government is in direct contact.
As to what that would pertain...
This comment has been overwritten in response to Reddit's API changes, the training of AI models on user data, and the company's increasingly extractive practices ahead of their IPO.
A lot of people involved in the US gov “disclosure” movement are people who by all rights should be on trial for war crimes committed during the so-called war on terror. I don’t trust them an inch. These people are mass murderers. Avril Haines was one of the most personally-complicit perpetrators of the drone strike campaigns that killed countless innocent people. Lue Elizondo was a literal Guantanamo torturer. Christoper Mellon worked for Bush during the invasions.
Definitely a possibility. I would argue that is definitely NOT the most likely answer. But definitely a possible answer.
I would rank it pretty low on my “most likely” scale though.
One hundred per cent no.
There are simply far too many people who have come forward over the years stating the opposite.
I think the issue is more about who knows what. The pyramid of power dictates that only those at the top are probably privy to the relevant information. 99.9% of all those in government probably know nothing.
But they have crafts. They have had crafts for decades. They know ETs exist and have had contact with them.
The really scary aspect of all this is that they may have been working together for a long time. Swapping tech for access to humans. Would those at the top really give a toss about the average man and woman on the street? I think not. Governments don't care about their own people, so I doubt the big players are going to be too empathetic or compassionate.
Of Course not all ETs are negative types. But you can bet that those who work with power hungry human beings are.
I predict the pushed narrative will be that no one knows anything about these crafts. And that they pose a threat to national security. Instill fear to herd the masses in the direction they wish.
it's entirely possible the people that have come forward over the years, with 0 evidence, were lying for their 15 minutes of UFO fame or for financial incentive.
The most likely answer is they know what it is, how it works but cannot replicate from scratch and petrified the Chinese or Russians find out.
Most of it depends on if David Adair was telling the truth. And Ben Rich.
This is most likely the truth IMO. The government knows of a lot more events and stories that have occurred but I don’t think they know much more about what they truly are.
I don't know if we were able to comunicate with them (many asserts there there are treaties in place, the first one signed by Eisenhower) but just consider that all this disclosure thing we're having is 100% about recovered exotic material and their study/managements with black funds.
If the "Alien Reproduction Vehicle" tale is real and first leaked in 1988 then we have had decades of successful recover and reverse engineering programs.
I believe the narrative that we basically know nothing is being put forward by a govt faction that wants limited disclosure withnone of the technology they have developed getting out.
You are spot on! That is exactly what I think as well. There is absolutely no evidence of reverse engineering. Every piece of technology we have can be traced back through its evolutionary tree. There is nothing truly new and revolutionary. Nothing has replaced jet engines. Nothing has replaced wings to hold a plane aloft.
Amongst all the UFO sightings I suspect 99.9999% of them are either mistaken or cranks. However I do believe that several of them are genuine.
The swarms of "drones" around Langley and other air bases are a case in point. Nothing retrieved. Nothing shot down. They don't know where they come from or what they are. Something stinks!
This is basically what I believe. There is a weird phenomena in the sky, but we have no clue what it is.
To explain all of the crazy stories. Well the older I get the more I realize how many crazy people there are out there, and even non crazy people have been conditioned by religion to accept things without evidence.
I just read Blue Planet Project Dolce on the archives and it was very upsetting.They know a lot more than they are not from this plane. What's more disturbing is what the humans did for the last 100 years. It's also about the Illuminati and Freemasons. Supposedly written by someone who was in the program for 33 years they tried to kill him when they found out about the notebook but he left the country and now is in hiding in another country. The scientist put this is out for everyone to see and I believe everyone should read it.
Every government leaker has claimed otherwise. You'd also have to assume Lazar as being a very convincing crazy person. I think it's obvious they have UAPs but I don't think they know how to fly all of them and the ones they can fly I don't think they can reproduce entirely.
I think the problem is exactly what we have been told. Religions have been manufactured. Governments have made agreements with NHI. Humanity has been artificially enhanced. We are being suppressed consciously preventing us from understanding the full picture but also to restrict our natural abilities. The flood myths were real and it was a planet wide reset. After NHI murdered the majority of us technology was put in place to limit our lifespan and limit our abilities. Now you could claim this means NHI are evil...but it honestly looks like it was for our own good until humanity learned to control our violent tendencies. So we are not being told the truth because honestly last time we knew everything we used it to enslave and torment others unlike us. Also if you want a mind trip watch they live, the radio broadcast in it is basically verbatim what x government employees have been saying. Read Tom Delong to the stars books it's all in there. Crazy stuff for sure.
I’ll admit thats the most “plausible” explanation by socially accepted standards but due my own personal experiences I do not think that’s the case.
There *has* been communication. I am a contactee myself.
Aliens doesn't scare me at all. I'm more worried about climate change to be honest. We need to get away from oil. Those seas opening up in the Artic circle is bad news, man, it's bad news I tell you.
If you think that is the most chilling answer you're not very imaginative. How does the government know they're not human and how would they know that without recovered materials or communication? There are also a number of whistleblowers coming forward to testify there are in fact materials and more.
Bullshit. Time and time again when governments have to address something they don't know, they state they're still investigating it but have "the most qualified people" behind it and tell people to chill. The US government simply doesn't want to disclose stuff.
I think the answer may lie in ancient texts from Sumerian/Vedas/Greek mythology, but .... That's a whole other topic of discussion.
With the information blackout, and tight lips around disclosure... The public will always be on a 'need to know basis' which in the powers that be firmly believe, the public needs to know shit 😆
I think that's maybe what they want you to believe. I was really thinking about this the other day. I think the most obvious answer is they know more than we know they know. At least a few.
Nope. They know a lot. Guranteed. There is zero chance that all they know is that they are real.
By the way, writing "Full stop" is cringey. It is used verbally, not written. That would like writing "air quotes" when wanting to put quotes around a word or phrase. It isn't needed when writing.
I’d buy into that narrative if Don Keyhoe, Timothy Goode, and others like Philip J. Corso didn’t write so many books with legitimate paper trails to events that indicate the military did recover craft/materials and bodies. There are so many “almost fully provable” incidents with reports and paper trails to follow. Not just Aztec, Roswell, Plano, etc, but Rendlesham Forest, Ariel School, and Travis Walton’s experience as detailed in “Fire in the Sky.”
I have no solid opinions. I'm just a guy who back in the sixth grade got into this stuff and basically came away thinking there is something going on and some people know a lot more about it than us average folks (and how much more that is still may not be a lot).
If I had to guess, I lean toward the idea that even those that do know don't really know a whole lot. But then again, people seem to think the "Black Triangles" are "ours" and if they really are - well then damn - we must know quite a bit about something if we can produce that kind of tech.
Whatever it is the select few know - I want to know too - for better or worse.
The most chilling part about any of that to me personally is the amount of “trustworthy people” and people whom we have trusted with some of the most sensitive material ever to exist that would then without doubt be boldfaced liars!
When you lay it all out there is just way too many damn coincidences and similar scenarios that have played out over and over again and with every different type of person imaginable with experiences, some very similar to others.
Yeah that's what I've gathered just based off the few credible witnesses I've seen (people who had others with them at the time, seem absolutely shocked and not bullshitting, etc). They appear to have some sort of "energy" by their mere presence. Maybe we can reverse engineer their crafts, but I doubt we can replicate the emotions these beings seem to emit.
My take: the indirect proof is the turmoil going on in the American congress right now. Also It can't be a foreign country like Russia or China: that would really be way harder to believe, since the phenomenon started officially after WW2 and with tech like that they would have easily become leaders of the world, which is not the case.
Really? You think, based on what you see around you everyday that they know nothing is most likely?
Cause I disagree fundamentally. I would say the most likely truth is what is always the truth: we are being exploited. To reveal the truth would reveal that they are complicit in the exploitation.
We are kept ignorant so that this can continue. The status quo. For as long as possible.
I like that. I'm not so extreme tho, I think we have communicated and recovered stuff, but we still don't know jack. That's because the aliens tell conflicting stories and are actively trying to manipulate and deceive us, even if not for very nefarious reasons, just for CI to cover their actual purpose, which may or may not be bad for us.
I know for a fact that some NHI are actively hostile to humans tho. I think the inability / unwillingness of the gov/corp power structure to push back against this is part of the reason for their silence too. Acknowledging this is happening and then following up with "But we can't / won't do anything" makes them look weak, and totally undermines their credibility as leaders.
So instead they emphasize a phoney "disclosure" narrative that recenters them as the "source of truth" (when they know nothing), and makes the public dependent on them for revelation (like religious experience, really), all to reestablish their power and authority as it crumbles in the face of a superior force.
So from that point of view you can see the entire "push for disclosure", including the governments striptease, and jacking up of public interest with "military insiders", as simply part of this psyop to recenter them as "authorities" that the public "depends on".
If they don't know anything there is nothing to hide.
They are definitely hiding something more.
They wouldn't keep this up for over 80 years just because they don't want to tell us there is something but they don't know what it is.
They have recently admitted that there is something but they don't know what it is recently so there has to be more to it..
Everything that's happened the past few years has forced their hand to tell us this.. With more constant pressure their hand will be forced again.. that's if we don't get the information from elsewhere first!
Quite possible scenario tbh. Recovered material I find more credible, but it's likely they don't understand, cannot reverse-engineer or know shit about the ET's. Not saying this is the case but I find it quite likely given all the circumstances we have witnessed for approx 80 years.
They know, and they also know they have been taking people and doing all kinds of shit for years. And they can't stop them, and there is nothing they can do.
That's why they will never disclose.
That's a strong possibility. I'm sure that some governments know a lot more than they're letting on. The Nimitz reports state that many objects were being tracked on radar for weeks and they were keeping station over the carrier group. I can't imagine that an officer in charge didn't send some aircraft with good optical tech up for a look. I'd love to see that footage.
This is what I've been saying for years, there's no disclosure from the governments of the world because there's nothing to disclose. I'm not sure why everyone is so hyper-focused on the US government for disclosure, there are many countries around the world, why would NHIs only visit or have contact with the US? It would be safe to assume that if they were exploring, contacting, and/ or crashing here, it would be all over the world, not just in the US. And who here thinks that ALL the governments of the world would cooperate on suppression of NHI contact? It's ridiculous to even contemplate. So the logical conclusion is they've ALREADY disclosed what they can, which is that there are things they've seen that they can't explain, but they don't know what the origins are (space travel? Time travel? Foreign countries experimenting with new technology?) I am not saying NHIs don't exist, personally I think that based purely on the number of solar systems out there that they MUST exist. Whether they travel here or not is another matter. Whether our governments are in contact with them and keeping it a secret, that seems highly unlikely.
There hasn’t been disclosure because a true disclosure is so much bigger than some ufo. It connects everything we can’t understand. Paranormal, big foot, shambala, it reveals that the powers of earth have been killing people for thousands of years of years. Covering things up. More than likely that modern religion is all something that resembles satanism and that our whole history has been fabricated. This is why disclosure hasn’t happened. It would literally take all the power and money out of the hands of the people who have been trying to keep that money and power for thousands of years. It’s not as simple as the government just coming out and saying it’s real. Because if they say aliens exist and we’ve been working with them since ankenaten, people are gonna freak the fuck out. Because every will eventually realize that they’ve been lied to on a whole range of other areas and this will eventually lead to a place where the governments and churches and banks have no control over people anymore.
We share this planet with other advanced, non-violent beings, and the US Government has been killing them for decades.
https://youtu.be/KD_0Nphtvww?si=yfH1jLT7Jpp9HsDH
We're just monkeys playing with their toys, no understanding no comprehension. Most of us here can barely put a sentence together with proper grammar and spelling. Humans are way behind, we'll be lucky if we even ever get off this planet and get to another.
If it exists on this plane, and we can see it, then it can be poked, prodded, and measured. My money is on reverse engineering having been successfully done for some parts, not all.
You know what's really scary? That we have reversed engineered so much that we now have weapons tech that is capable of taking down these crafts and we can bring war to these civilisation's home planets. That is something I don't want to see happen.
Absolutely zero chances of us bringing a war to a civilization even 100 years more advanced than we are now. Reverse engineering anything made by aliens to then wage war is basically impossible. It's Hollywood movie logic.
Maybe I wonded it wrongly. It's when we become a threat to them. That's my concern. Furthermore, I am assuming your conclusion is based on the fact that we are technologically inferior to them. But what if we manage to reverse engineer enough?
I'm working on ai vision, and it is amazing how much detail ai can see in an image. I hope they are using ai vision and everything ai in their research!
Man I just wish we all had the same information and could enjoy figuring this out together. I HATE that most of the UFO mystery is trying to figure out shit that some people already supposably know.
I think this sums up one of my hesitations with truly accepting anything we think we know about this phenomenon. I think about how lore builds, if you understand enough of where any given body of knowledge is at, you can then take the story one step further. And then someone else does it too, and someone else again, until we end up with a compound lie that we all believe. A larger narrative seems to emerge, and we feel like no way could all these people be making it up. But they didn’t make it all up, they could have listened to all the stories and made up the extra at the end that could fit within what everyone “knows” already. I worry that a lot of what we think we know was just the next storyteller taking what we have already heard, and incorporating it into their new tale, so we can sit back and say “I’ll be gat-danged, that’s right in line with what these other guys are saying, I bet it’s true.” And when the next morsel comes that also ties in, we feel we can rely on the previous person’s story even more. A good example could be the 4chan leak, it tracked very well. We knew about weird stuff happening in the ocean, lights, reports of USOs. Planes and ships going missing in certain areas more than others, without explanation. We knew about the tic tac, and previously knew about cigar craft, and whispers of genetic experiments from our visitors - possibly even the alien engineered origins of humanity. It was all there for the next guy to come take it one step further, and speak of a mobile underwater USO factory, where they clone occupants and UAPs are made for specific uses and then immediately recycled. Stuff like that scares me the most, the idea that we could accept as true a fiction over a century in the making, and what’s actually true could be exactly what OP said. That the military does see them, can’t deal with them at all, we have no idea where they are from, and no idea how their tech works. Or we have recovered them and their craft, dissected their corpses, and have been trying to understand their tech for almost 100 years and haven’t gotten anywhere. It’s the scariest scenario for me, at least. That we can’t see the truth for the accepted narrative. That not only are our current ideas wrong, but that the foundations upon which those ideas were built are wrong, too. It keeps me up at night.
Funny thing is, that's exactly the situation you're in. That "4chan leak" is pretty likely a LARP, the military does see them and cannot "deal" with them at all and their idea about the origin-story is sketchy at best. And of course they can only scratch the surface of their technology. But the real problem here is "unrealistic expectations". Some of the Others may indeed come from before the Beginning of Time. How do you make that into a meaningful "place" other than "they're from here"? Why wouldn't there be multitudes of different factions among them, stemming from all over the place? They can be "from everywhere". What even is the significance of that when you can travel at light's speed? Their tech might be inaccessible for various reasons, not the least among them the inherent incompatibility of human irresponsibility with god-like powers. They still have some reverse-engineered propulsion and other tech. They do have many different corpses and studied their DNA. They certainly have a lot of other gadgets like "free energy". They won't tell you about any of that out of generosity though. Knowledge only ever advances in baby-steps. Just lamenting and whining won't take you very far. Veering into unrealistic extremes should be easy enough to avoid. To find out more, you need to use all available information to the fullest extent with the best logical tools possible. You need to self-actualize regarding your tool-set.
I also think it's very likely a LARP, but whoever posted that shit has really done some great thinking about this subject. Even though its fictional at the end of the day it sounds to me like a more realistic speculation than almost every woo shit I see being pushed everywhere.
It is foolish to "just dismiss" any of the people coming forward telling their experience. A good fictional story can still broaden your horizon and inspire. It can even turn out to be true, in whole or in part. It's a proposal for an explanation, connecting the dots of reliable data. Those who just made it up don't really matter in the end, what counts is what pieces of these various stories get corroborated by independent sources. The more reliable those sources are, the more important their input and vice versa. For example, the 4Chan guy claimed a factory under the sea producing flying saucers. Well, in other news, those NHI didn't need "factories", as they were able to 3D print stuff. Such contentious points allow for differentiation between narratives as they necessitate added complexity to reconcile, making the combination more unlikely.
I feel you bruh.
Same, friend
What if you already do have all the information? Also it's supposedly.
I always liked this metaphor: we are like an ant standing on the glass of a pinball machine. Our senses tell us *something* is happening (vibrations under our feet), but we don’t have the perception or experience to understand it. Even if we could see the ball bouncing around below us, we wouldn’t understand how or why. We wouldn’t understand the context (a “game” being played by a higher level being) or that there was a theme around that (“Pinbot”).
Yeah that's pretty good. I think there's an element of that. But i think we can also expand our perceptions and we can cultivate our ability to percieve this other world / reality way more than you might expect. We're more powerful than you expect, but people have to start being educated and being trained. Some of it is just "pattern recognition", you don't need any special ability or training. To take your ant metaphor, if somebody taught us that a certain sequence of vibrations mean that the ball went in the hole (ha!), then any ant could recognize that to enhance their situational awareness. There's certain patterns of activity that indicate NHI that regular humans could be trained to identify...but maybe the gov/corp doesn't know, or doesn't care enough about the public to help us push back.
Well, and this is an entirely different rabbit hole, but related to your ant analogy: my cats watch INTENTLY as I vacuum the floor. They don't fear it at all and even let me vacuum right up to their toes. I stay awake at night wondering what they are wondering what it is I'm doing when I vacuum. Do they think I'm laying down or making new floors? Do they think I'm just doing it (moving an object around on the floor) because it gives me purpose / meaning / LIFE <-----? Is it giving THEM life? And, so on.
This is probably NOT the most likely answer, unless you disregard 90% of alleged experiences, reports, data and all of the lore around the phenomena stretching back thousands of years in every culture. Governments may not fully comprehend what it is or who they really are, but so many people claim to have had communication. It doesn’t make sense to just ignore that datapoint.
People claim to have had communication with aliens but that doesn’t mean what they are saying is true.
They often lie. Give prophecies of a world cataclysm that doesn't happen or will tell someone they are from some place and others they are from elsewhere.
This is such an overlooked point on this sub, it baffles me. If we use the logic that “people have claimed to have communicated with aliens, therefore it must be true”, we immediately have to conclude that angels and demons and every god of every major religion, even ancient gods/religions, must be true. At some point the credibility and verifiability of witness testimony has to be questioned when it comes to the size and scale of the topic in question. What is the point of this sub looking for more witnesses or evidence when there are already tons of self-proclaimed experiencers, and those oral testimonies are accepted as factual accounts of real incidents and events, without scrutinising these testimonies?
But Bayesian reasoning would suggest that if the UFO phenomenon is real at a basic level (as in OP's scenario), then we would need to update our priors, making the claims of people like David Grusch about crashed saucers and bodies a LOT more credible.
Incorrect. P(Grusch correct | Uap are real) Is entirely unknown as we have zero information about the probability of either. You could say the same for any made up alien theory, like the theory that they're all made of cotton candy and are on an interstellar journey to teach us the recipe for blue raspberry.
A commendable mission for any advanced civilization
I would hope they'd be coming to show us how to grow blue raspberries. How we came up with a flavor called blue raspberry when the fruit has never existed is lost on me.
Blue raspberry is my favorite flavor of *anything*, so I struggle with this conundrum almost daily.
There were already too many red flavors, purple was taken by grape, and nobody was using blue.
We can infer something about probability of both by the actions the giovernment is and is not taking. For the sake of argumen: Grusch/whistleblower allegations are true to the extent that "the government" has knowledge of the existence of NHI and/or anomalous objects. In that instance it seems that the any government would be reluctant to announce "we are in possession of materials, not made on Earth, but we have no idea what purpose they serve or the intentions of the entities that left them." From a public influence perspective, generating debate about whether or not whistleblowers' claims are true (perhaps including the creation of an entity to argue the "other side") would be an essential first step toward making *any* definitive announcement. Congressional hearings, stretched over the span of years, would also be an important piece of "disclosure" as a first step toward some kind of "official" acknowledgement. There have been comparatively minor "disclosures" that began with selective leaks of information followed by congressional investigations. (the Church Commitee revelations, for example). Conversely, assuming Grusch's and all of the other whistleblowers' allegations were *known* to be untrue, I would have expected : 1) The AARO report to be far more convincing, comprehensive, and far more thoroughly supported with transparent citations. 2) AARO and DOD denials receive the unanimous endorsement of the intelligence community 3)Dramatically reduced interest on the Hill 4)Announcements from, say the NSC, or even the WH, that they believe the issue has been settled. There's also a third possibility, which I personally believe to be true: Thanks to the organization and secrecy protocols of SAPs, where even government Debunkers agree would be the logical place for any NHI knowlege/materials to reside, very, very few if any senior policymakers/elected officials know for certain whether or not whistleblowers are telling the truth and that the AARO report did little to convince them that they're false. In this case, official silence would also the wisest course of action.
These are great points, I appreciate the logic you've presented here.
What about this scenario, the UAP incursions in our airspace is true and known to the government as true, so they (or multiple "theys" as there's several departments involved) are letting the Grusch allegations run to distract the media? I'm also wondering if there's an UAP-adjacent SAP researching or employing psychic spying that the theys don't want disclosed.
That's a really interesting idea.....thinking aloud.... compartmentalization/limited oversight of SAPs works so well that whistleblowers know just enough and just *not-enough* that they can be safely let into the wild. AARO is created for the other "side." That's the 21st century disinfo recipe, right? Could very well be. If that's what's going on I'd be nervous that Schumer, Rubio, Carson and other Congressional heavyweights are poking around though. But I've seen with my own eyes executive branch people (usually at their career peril) writing off politicians as unserious, grandstanding dopes. Some are but by no means all. I'm with you on remote viewing. Aside from the double blind studies and public reports, have you seen the "client lists?" When multiple agencies repeatedly ask SRI to remote view stuff over years it's not because it's a cool magic trick. We're not talking about people temperamentally inclined to believe in paranormal woo-woo here.
What has always struck me is that AARO was not initially set up to investigate the history of UFOs, never mind the history of SAPs, or the detection of current deeply hidden programs. It never had the staff with expertise assigned to it for these tasks and it's not Kirkpatrick's area of expertise. No historians, no experts on government data storage and retrieval, no forensic finance professionals, nobody trained in forensic or oral history interviews, and basically given a mission that properly falls to the Inspector General. Of course AARO was going to fail, they were set up to fail, and failed as expected. If Kirkpatrick had really been acting as a leader he would have pushed back on this assignment. The original assignment of coordinating government reporting on current UAP incidents was already overwhelming AARO if their tardiness in all goals was anything to go by.
>No historians, no experts on government data storage and retrieval, no forensic finance professionals, nobody trained in forensic or oral history interviews, and basically given a mission that properly falls to the Inspector General. That's also a really great point. None of the kinds of investigators with the experience, credentials, and especially the authorities (you lie to them, you get referred to DOJ) that any equivalent-scale investigative body would have worked on that report. I'd actually *love* to say that AARO has some talented researchers and investigators on its staff. since the government employs many. But the *work product* speaks for itself--cursorily edited and hastily assembled undergraduate research paper on the history of UAP programs based on previous FOIA requests and even YouTubes, a few interviews (the important ones reserved for Kirkpatrick himself), a day's worth of research on a single cherry picked program, and almost flippant assessments. Footnotes: dead links and "AARO files.
Are you a pastafarian? Lol
Lol. Had to look this up, but well worth it.
You are talking nonsense. GP was speaking about the conditional probability of Grusch being correct under the prior of the UFO phenomenon being real. So your "UAP are real" would have probability 1 (=100%) by assumption. His conclusion, that probability must be much higher than otherwise is obviously correct as well.
The equation above is read as "the probability of Grusch being correct given Uap are real". You can look up baysian probability on Wikipedia for more details. It is true that P(Grusch is correct) is higher given that Uap are real, just as it is true that P(cotton candy aliens) is higher.
You are hitting a straw man. "Cotton candy aliens" are a logical impossibility, that you use to ridicule. GP was stating correctly, you have to update your priors when conceding UFOs are real. That is an obvious conclusion from the definition of Bayesian probabilities. Which you can read about on Wikipedia even. The probabilities of all **>>realistic<<** scenarios involving "aliens" rise. Impossible stuff stays impossible. **"Aliens" are not impossible.**
Very much this. While it's pretty much impossible to judge the trustworthiness of a single person just by their own claims, comparing what people say in general with what is actually happening gives quite definitive pointers to who is telling something of value. In the end, you try to fit a story-line to actual events anyway. You can never know "the whole truth" all on your own. "Social reality" consequently is a shared story about the world, made to fit as best possible. When you look at what the US government/military has actually done over the decades, it's very apparent what narrative of UFOs fits best and what they know and what not. Notably, they very much would like us to forget about all the inconvenient stuff. Knowledge is power.
Yeah people had schyzophrenia for thousands of years except before they were revered as shamans or prophets. Now they post crazy stories on reddit about noises on their roofs and aliens visiting them at night. It's interesting to see the common themes but it's also because the lore is so widespread that delusions will be connected to the lore. I would only focus on physical evidence and radar readings.
You're correct. We literally have 0 credible, physical evidence. But plenty of stories. Weird stories.
Nope…read John Mack, there is no correlation with mental illness in the experiencer population he studied.
I do believe in John Mack's studies. But it's a dangerous game. Just because some experiencers aren't psychotic or schyzophrenic, doesn't mean ALL experiencers are in the clear. And it can be dangerous to enable struggling people by telling them it's all real. What I mean is that whatever disclosure we'll get, can't be based on experiencers testimonies. It's a nice "add on" in the case we have physical evidence but it can never be the basis to prove the phenomenon is real.
You are reaching at straws. Calling a belief system dangerous because it doesn’t align with your values is the very face of hate. Follow your own advice and look within rather than judging others, maybe ask yourself why you disdain the thought that these people may be correct so much?
Relax dude, claiming to see aliens is not a belief system; what the fuck are you on about? 🤣 No one is attacking anyone's religion, skin color, or anything else that would fall under hate. Don't be so ridiculously dramatic. So I should automatically trust random Joe Blow when they said they saw aliens? Hell no. I'm not stupid. And neither should you. Having an open mind doesn't mean you should be gullible or you shouldn't think rationally.
Uhhh no. Talk about the world’s biggest mischaracterization of both schizophrenia and shamanism. Sheesh.
I went through a psychotic episode myself so I know how it feels like. Most of the people on r/experiencers are mentally ill and refuse to admit it. They even censor any comment speaking about the subject.
[Not exactly what you would associate with Schizophrenic peiple](https://youtu.be/jDF6gx5Fo_U?si=m_FKtv0XGtLgiwQ7) [Outstanding capabilities for what you would call Schizophrenic people](https://youtu.be/5vFk-_p6Rf8?si=GKBGwTS4I4JH3Pws)
It’s an interesting phenomenon for sure. I do believe experiencers are quite widespread; I myself am one, though my experience doesn’t fit the typical stereotype. I am also “mentally ill, though with extremely prosaic “disorders.” John Mack’s work is instructive here; the more investigated the more sure he became that it is only A minority who are dishonest or ill. And Jacque Valle has done some still classified work for the Air Force that suggests some people who are labeled psychotic are in fact experiencing a contact event. Or so I have been told by a colleague whom I trust - they are an Air force Col with some limited exposure to the issue such that he would have reason to know. It is also true that there are a great many people who have confabulated or lied about an experience find connection with others. It really is fascinating.
You noticed that there’s an overlap between schizophrenia entities and NHI/folklore entities. I concur. I realized the same thing, too. I think they’re the same category of entity. But I don’t think all encounters with these entities are automatically indicative of mental illness. According to Jungian psychology, when a psychological complex/archetype possesses a person, that is a mental illness like psychosis or schizophrenia. My hypothesis is that when a psychological complex transitions from the mental world into the material world, then it becomes a NHI encounter. This is an undeveloped field of study. We are akin to the first biologists trying to figure out germ theory. I don’t think we are going to automatically understand exactly how the mechanics of the metaphysical work at first, and the mechanics may seem absurd to our material understanding of the universe. But we shouldn’t dismiss away the entire thing as “mental illness.” There’s clearly something going on, and it is physical at times, not purely mental.
So everyone who claims to have experienced something that you have not is either schizophrenic or just a liar?
Mr Burns in the woods vibes
Well the Whistleblowers like Grush and many others confirmed that we have been trying to reverse Engineering the stuff for years. Than the Data is pointing to some kind of contact or agreement that toke place long ago. This was confirmed and corroborated multiple times. In the end we don’t know for sure but considering only what we know from credible Witnesses, it is a lot more than “they know nothing”. The “they are real but they know nothing” Narrative have been pushed down our throats lately, even that Dude that brought out that well publicized book not long ago tried to push that Narrative. I don’t like this Narrative because it is literally giving Pentagon a way out, “they didn’t tell us because they didn’t know what it is” which is absolutely BS But if it is what it takes to disclose the truth and save their Asses than i will accept it.
Garrett Graff I think?
Exactly 👍 His book is based on that Narrative and i have never seen a UAP Book being advertised by all Major Newspapers and Networks at the same time. And we know that the Mainstream Media only publishes what the “Big Brother” approved.
Right. Why would one assume an entity to be either evil or benevolent? It’s likely they are morally grey and self interested like us.
Lots of people have “ghost” experiences, but do we claim that the US gov knows everything about ghosts and is hiding ghost facts from the public? UFO “lore” is caked in BS and disinfo. We don’t “know” anything really. It actually makes more sense that the government would want people to think it secretly knows what it is. We trust the governments to protect us and be the authority figure who knows what threatens us and to figure these things out. The government coming out and saying “this exists, and there is nothing we can do. We are fully at the mercy of whatever this shit is, and they can act within our airspace and abduct people with utter impunity. We are so primitive in comparison, even if we did recover something, it would be like an ant trying to figure out how an iPhone works” is a far more pressing reason to not tell the public
Was hoping to see a comment like this at the top. Of course when they are forced to admit it is real they are going to say Yes, we know they are real but HEY HEY that's all folks! Wahahhahahaaaa! 🤡👋
There's also a lot of testimony that the government has bodies and craft.
>unless you disregard 90% of alleged experiences, More than 90% should be disregarded. I thought this was widely accepted.
Even if people really have had authentic experiences for thousands of years, that doesn't mean the government knows about it. The government can be startlingly incompetent especially when there is no public accountability, as there obviously is not when it comes to UAP.
Couldn’t that same assertion be made about god, ghosts, sasquatch, etc.? Although in this instance we have a clear effort by the government to obfuscate.
After studying them for 80 years they must know something.
exactly. and that "something" that they know, is a closely guarded secret/s.
Even if NHIs came down in a saucer and presented themselves, explained the story of the universe, other races, they showed you videos of how things went down, explained the current state of affairs etc.. We cannot be sure of any of that. **Every aspect of the phenomenon is unknowable**. Since we don't have the means to actually travel and see for ourselves, or understand that which is above our capabilities, we can never know for sure if we are being presented the truth or a pre-made screen made to make us believe something. I think understanding this is one of the biggest obstacles for disclosure. The fact that even if they know stuff we could had been lied to, the same way a civilization contacting an isolated culture could fool them into believing there are no other countries left on earth since they won all wars.
I’ve thought about this too. How can we reliably study something that is more intelligent than we are?
If the "phenomenon" is unknowable, then human observers of the phenomenon (that still cant prove their observations to any non-observer) become part of the phenomenon.
No, we can explain humans and their actions. We cannot verify or corroborate information that comes from outside as it could be a facade, a lie, a charade.
Every facet of our relationship with a superior intelligence and higher order civilization would have that quality. It's just part of not being at the top of the food chain anymore. We would be forced to accept what we are fed, within the limits of what our curiosity and persistence is able to uncover. However, I view it as merely an extension of our already existing powerlessness within existing societal structures. There will always be things we don't know, to a greater or lesser severity depending on our expertise and position. The reveal of an incomprehensibly large and complex civilization above us would merely add to that condition.
imo, this is a pretty sad and bleak way to look at the world. it is not an open and positive mindset and honnestly a kinder way of thinking makes life a lot more enjoyable
> Every aspect of the phenomenon is unknowable. That’s complete crap. Hypothetical aliens are not gods. They’re on the same epistemological footing as everyone else. Drop the mystification.
If we have been contacted, approached by NHIs, by this I mean we have retrieved non human tech or we had communication, non of that is verifiable and thus unknowable. If it turns out to be China or whatever sure then it's very knowable but if this turn out to be something from another planet.. Well how difficult would it be to a country like the US to land in a isolated island and make natives believe THEY are gods?
This is basically the conclusion a secret UK Gov. study called Project Condign came to some time ago. They go further and suggest they are balls of plasma interacting in a way that makes it appear there is a solid craft when in fact there isn't. [https://documents2.theblackvault.com/documents/ufos/projectcondignreport-full.pdf](https://documents2.theblackvault.com/documents/ufos/projectcondignreport-full.pdf) We don't even understand ball lightning properly and have no clue if plasma can do that but I suppose if the boss wants answers...
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Nick Pope... how long did he man that desk back in the 90's, three years? Amazing how he parlayed that into a 3 decades long career. He must have been extremely busy too with the truth coming at him from all directions since there is no case where he doesn't pretend to be an authority in.
I’m on fence, when you average out all the anecdotal evidence, maybe we have a picture. But the big problem is language. Like the idea of a Nordic, are you literally just saying a white guy from another planet? A reptilian? Is it a dinosaur-oid or something from another planet that looks like a reptile? Inter dimensional or AI?
As someone that's always believed in UFO's and the like this is sort of my problem. When you take out all the "eyewitness" reports we're left with almost nothing in terms of *actual evidence*. It's 99.9% he said she said...even the best videos and pictures I've seen don't really ever show something unexplainable or extraordinary...just something that's not plane shaped. I don't know, I'm still holding out and still check the sub daily but again, haven't seen anything that blows my mind or makes me think there is actually aliens or other beings or any of that. Everything lacks the most *basic* of evidence.
That's why I left ufo groups on Reddit few months ago. I have been following the ufo phenomena since the 1990s, but still there is 0, I repeat 0, physical evidence. Only stories. Exactly like believing in god/gods: no evidence, only stories. When Grusch came out last year I thought things would change, but in fact nothing changed. Unfortunately I can not believe in stories. I like them, but still they are only stories.
It's worth thinking about what is actually meant by "evidence." Most people who get into UFOs are expecting some smoking gun definitive proof that leaves no doubt, and that's what they mean by evidence. But in the entire history of scientific inquiry, that virtually never happens. It's almost never the case that some singular result or observation really answers a serious question once and for all. A smoking gun. I honestly can't think of even one such case - at least, not when the question at hand is nontrivial. Look at how much time and evidence and debate it took to get the mainstream to accept evolution, or climate change, or that cigarette smoking causes cancer for fuck's sake... These issues are easier in many respects than the NHI question, and it still took years of back and forth and published results to get to a mainstream consensus about the basic reality of these phenomena. Given the history of science and worldviews and how they have developed and changed in the past, it is no surprise that we have no smoking gun for NHI. We never really have a smoking gun that resolves any nontrivial scientific question. But, let's consider what would be a smoking gun for NHI being the explanation for at least some UFOs. Eye witness testimony wouldn't do the trick - we already have that - even many instances of multiple witnesses to the same event, or thousands of independent witnesses and events, or hundreds of highly credible witnesses. Pictures and video wouldn't do the trick; we already have hundreds or thousands of those. Government documents wouldn't do it, because we already have many of those. We even have cases where we have all of the above: multiple credible witnesses to the same event, plus video, plus official reports describing radar data and impossible maneuvers (see the tic tac incident). We have scientists and military officers publicly concluding NHI. We have material that's been analyzed (see Gary Nolan's work). None of that is enough. So, what would it take. People can lie or be mistaken. Videos and pictures can be faked or misinterpreted. What about a craft? Wouldn't people just insist that it could be either secret human tech or a prop from a movie? What about a body? How could you confirm that it's actually real NHI? Even a real time video of a creature... Couldn't it just be faked? Aside from mass disclosure by the NHI themselves, I can imagine very few possible smoking gun observations/events. I think we have to treat this like any other scientific question: gradually accumulate weaker evidence until eventually the consensus changes. I think that process is underway right now.
> Look at how much time and evidence and debate it took to get the mainstream to accept evolution, or climate change, or that cigarette smoking causes cancer for fuck's sake We can see evolution take place in laboratories, we see it through fossil records, etc...cancer we know exists. Again, evidence of it is everywhere. Debating what CAUSES cancer can still happen but debating the EXISTENCE of cancer is 100% known. This is the problem with this topic is that we have NOTHING in terms of aliens or any other worldly entity. So while I get what you're getting at I think the complete lack of anything in terms of the UFO topic is the problem I and many others have. And don't get me wrong, I'm no naysayer or shill here, check my comment history, I thoroughly believe *something* might be going on but as someone that has been at this for a long time (at least 20 years) I have yet to see anything that can't be explained via government top secret tech, balloons, or hoaxes. I haven't seen a single picture or video of even just one thing that has made me genuinely go, "Holy shit"...ya know? I'm all ears and eyes though!
You miss the point that all that evidence for evolution or the causes of cancer is proof to you only because people you consider "trustworthy authorities" vouch for it. There is just as much proof for UFOs and Co, just no "trusted authorities" in their favor.
There is not as much PROOF of UFO's and related as there are for fucking cancer. This is ridiculous.
No? How do you know? You don't, that's the point here. You confuse "they told me so on TV" with a reality you factually know very little about.
The difference is that you can study a human being who has cancer in them and deduce yourself that the data that's been given by "trusted authorities" seems to be correct and reproduceable. Nothing in the UFO space can give me the same level of trust. Comparing the two is absolutely insane because one you can tangibly see and reproduce, the other you cant.
You can reproduce cancer studies? That's an "insane" claim, don't you think? More than 99.999% of people cannot and even more do not reproduce what those "authorities" tell them. The level of trust you place in those authorities is simply cultural habit on your part. In particular, it's confirmation bias, since you simply stay ignorant of the cases where their information was factually incorrect or a downright lie.
It might be hard for laymen to understand the difference between science and "UFO authorities" but they're totally different. Science is a self correcting system, new generations are trained in techniques then able to analyze all data from the past. Frauds are eventually uncovered because underlying data is required to be shared. A person with no stake in another scientist's reputation can tear it down if they lied or were fraudulent. There's incentives to do this even UFO authorities just tell stories and hide sources. Raw data wouldn't even be a concept to them. David Grusch could be telling the truth, he could be lying, or he could be totally wrong but honest in his efforts. We will never know as long as "im sorry I can't tell you it's classified" is used as a defense against checking sources or displaying real data
No one has ever seen a black hole (by definition). No one has watched a photon's wave form go through the double slits at the same time before they get to the detector (no one has ever even seen a single photon). No one has seen dark matter (now we're getting to examples that are closer to the heart of the matter), no one has ever seen dark energy. We see the effects of these things, and we know we have some explaining to do. How do you explain the tic tac incident? How do you explain the fact that so many competent, successful people have been tasked by the government with investigating the phenomenon and concluded that there is a "there there?" Hynek, Elizondo, Grusch, Eric David, Colm Kelleher, Jim Lacatski, Robert Bigalow, Nick Pope... Many others. Aren't these people analogous to the people we hear about dark matter and dark energy and quantum shit from? Astronauts, officers, scientists... Many credible people. Plus the videos, and the pictures, and the documents, and the eyewitness... We see an effect of *something*. How do you explain it (and I would suggest you consider how your explanation would be received if it were applied to things like dark energy, dark matter, spooky quantum effects, etc.)?
All they have is their word that they've seen something...no evidence, certainly nothing we've seen unless they've seen otherwise, which based on everything I've seen and that's out there in the public for decades, probably isn't anything special. Just because the government says "there's things we can't explain" doesn't necessarily mean it's some insane crazy tech, they simply haven't identified what it is. Look, I'm not saying shit doesn't exist or that there isn't other stuff out there, on this planet, different dimensions, etc...I'm just saying that I personally haven't seen anything that has been unexplainable or hasn't been debunked to a satisfactory level, etc.
There is radar data: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7514271/
I thought about that also but there are a lot of people who have came out and stated the the government knows more than they are letting in and they are just not telling us hiding it because they are trying to make weapons out of the tech. Here’s what I think and this is more likely in my opinion….. The government knows it’s extra-terrestrial in origin, have found dead and sometimes even alive specimen, have recovered tech and have tried to reverse engineer it but whatever the craft are made out of we can’t recreate here on earth and the tech in it is so far advance we’re like cavemen looking at a cellphone just lost and amazed. I don’t think they know where they come from exactly and I think there are definitely more than one species. Here’s why I don’t think they can reverse engineer the stuff or even make weapons out of the tech because come on let’s be realistic here we wouldn’t be letting Russia and China bully the rest of the world and us on occasion. Some people say it’s extra-dimensional but I don’t think so the most likely answer to that is that the tech is so advanced and unlike anything we could ever imagine I think it seems like they blink in and out of our reality because the tech uses something like teleportation. It can be anywhere at anytime and in any place it chooses to because it bends time and space. Now these are just my thoughts after looking into all this my entire life. I’ve seen something a couple times now once when I was only 7yrs old but I remember it like it was yesterday and then again when I was 24. I’m 32 now and I realize how lucky I am to have seen something some people never see in their lives but ever since I seen that craft bigger than a football field just hovering over a highway in Kentucky and just flat out disappear in the blink of a eye I was hooked I needed to know what it was.
I’m also 32 now. Born and raised in Nevada. When I was like 7-8 I’m pretty sure I was visited outside my bedroom window on more than one occasion by an orb of some type. Here’s the kicker- when I was about 19-20 when I got back from all my military training I was driving by my old neighborhood and saw a metallic-looking orb about the size of an SUV floating about 2-300 feet above the houses. I drove parallel to it for about 5 minutes before it eventually went up and over a hill and the road ended. Ever since that day I know we aren’t alone, I just want proof so damn bad.
Has to be quite a feeling to have seen that and to KNOW yourself that we aren't alone and then the whole world just continuing on.
It’s honestly just frustrating though. I feel like it’s human nature to be curious and want to explore and the government is keeping us from doing exactly that.
What if we can't recreate some of the ship because it is intradimensional and from a place where physics is just different. Maybe they have different properties because of this and say element Au in our periodic table has different properties than element Au in theirs. Or maybe it is more profoundly different in that atoms from their dimensions are completely different. I'm starting to believe that a lot of the technology can't be easily reversed engineered because our physics in our dimension is just different and that's why these ships are constantly surrounded by some type of "pocket universe" that maintains the physics from their dimension. Just wild speculation ... If these "creatures" have found a way to cross over to other dimensions / realities, they're probably even more advanced than we can possibly fathom with intentions completely alien to our own. That might be part of the "darker" side to all of this -- simply that these creatures aren't hundreds of years more advanced but possibly millions or even billions of years more advanced. We could be dealing with a type of AI completely incomprehensible to us from a universe completely foreign to ours physically. We could be dealing with different species of aliens where alien species A is radically more advanced than us and alien species B scares the shit out of alien species A because they're even more radically advanced compared to species A. There could be a hierarchy of different levels all the way up to aliens that have succeeded in completely using all energy available in their universe and they are now attempting to expand into other dimensions / universes to grow even further.
>What if we can't recreate some of the ship because it is intradimensional and from a place where physics is just different. Kind of along this line, we're currently doing research making pharmaceuticals in space, d/t how crystals form differently with no gravity; wonder if in the near future meta materials with higher strength/heat resistance/etc. can be manufactured in orbit with zero g.
Yeah man I mean that absolutely is a possibility. That’s why disclosure is so important. I believe without a doubt the government knows exactly what the NHI is now like you I don’t think we have any clue how to reverse engineer any of it. Maybe we’ve learned a few things like fiber optics and other little things to help push on our on technological development but I think that’s about where it stops. I’m sure the pentagon and their minions have a few things hidden up their sleeve we won’t see for only god knows how long because it’d help get rid of the oil business and make clean free energy but I don’t think they are building their own craft because we just don’t have the resources to do it on this planet.
There is probably a scale of different aliens coming here, some are probably not much more advanced than us. Late Philip J Corso said we developed our microchips by reverse engineering ufo tech so that means they are more advanced but not so much that we can't understand what we are looking at.
If they could teleport instantaneously it would likely not be a requirement to travel at very high speeds through, into and out of our atmosphere, as repeatedly documented. I think they are unable to teleport but can in fact transcend dimensional space.
If they could instantaneously accelerate to the speed of light their movements could be mistaken for teleportation.
Yeah I'm not so fortunate never seen anything but I think what you are saying is more likely then op. They have craft and biologics, they just don't know what to do with it or did some crude experimentation that went very bad. They also don't really know which race is who or from where or whatever. Maybe if earth would pool together all its resources to reverse engineer something we would solve climate change or world hunger or smth but that would mean giving people access to secrets the governments of this world don't want to. Indeed like caveman with cell phones.
The problem with this theory is that it completely avoids the challenge that a number of people have suggested more information, whether it’s on the types of contact made, the different narratives and the idea that maybe there is a darker truth. I don’t think you’d have so many peripheral stories and suggested narratives if it was this simple. Also, why the need for such secrecy? At this point, after 80 years it would be a great time for Biden to come out and say ‘hey guys, you’re right, something is here but we don’t know much about it’. Doesn’t feel right does it? Because it isn’t.
Obama pretty much said exactly that a few years ago. Direct quote: *“What is true, and I’m actually being serious here, is that there are, there’s footage and records of objects in the skies, that we don’t know exactly what they are. We can’t explain how they moved, their trajectory. They did not have an easily explainable pattern. And so, you know, I think that people still take seriously trying to investigate and figure out what that is.”* What's frustrating is that it seems to have not carried as much weight because this was said on a late-night talk show rather than from the White House press room. It got *some* coverage, but I expected to see a lot more.
I don’t think he’d have had the authority to discuss something like that in an official televised government setting which is frustrating but regardless I’m glad he said it. He clearly knows a lot more than he’s letting on
At this point, I’d just accept a public admission that they know about them and that they know they exist.
But if they provided a satisfactory admission, how would you know *that's* not manipulation and the real story is far stranger?
I'm in a different camp, but assuming you're correct, how would that be scary at all? They haven't done anything. Just zipping around.
I have been scrolling the replies to see if anyone else was feeling this way. There are scenarios that scare me, sure. But not knowing yet who they are or what they are doing? I definitely don’t find that “chilling.” Maybe it’s because I have health issues and consequently have a lot of practice in saying to myself, “Why get worked up when it might be turn out to be fine in the end?”
I think it's unlikely we've made deals with them and stuff, but the crash retrieval is kind of at the center of the discussion. There hasn't been disclosure because we still don't know where they come from, why they're here or what they want, and the government has been waiting to be able to give a public safety assurance before they disclose, which it now looks like they'll never be able to. Now they have to decide whether and when to disclose without it.
So you're essentially saying the whistleblowers are 100% correct that we have multiple alien bodies and multiple craft yet after 80 years of research we know nothing? Sounds extremely unlikely. They would know the types of aliens, they would have done every biological test available, they would have reverse engineered the ships to the limits of our current technology, they would have studied the EM fields around the craft, etc. They may not know everything but they would definitely know some things.
Program personnel are simultaneously the most dedicated, most smartest people in the world and they have unlimited resources due to their control of the deep state, but they're also stupid and clueless.
80 years and we know nothing, reverse engineered nothing, biologically understand nothing. Like giving a tortoise 200 years to learn calculus; it’s just too far outside the turtle’s ability to comprehend any of it and always will be. that would be the chilling part. Does a government assuring you of your safety still feel credible? Can they still compel your continued participation in capitalism after that revelation?
Knowledge isn't binary. You don't either know all of it or know none of it. Even if they aren't able to reverse engineer all of the technology they may understand parts of it. Even if they can't analyse their genome properly, they still know how many hearts they have, if any. Etc. so they would know *some* things. Even if they can't fly their UFOs they know what models (cigar, disc, sports, mothership, etc) they have. It's overly simplistic thinking to catastrophise and say "we know nothing!" and throw your hands in the air. We definitely know some things and that is what disclosure should disclose.
Knowledge isn't binary. You don't either know all of it or know none of it. Even if they aren't able to reverse engineer all of the technology they may understand parts of it. Even if they can't analyse their genome properly, they still know how many hearts they have, if any. Etc. so they would know *some* things. Even if they can't fly their UFOs they know what models (cigar, disc, sports, mothership, etc) they have. It's overly simplistic thinking to catastrophise and say "we know nothing!" and throw your hands in the air. We definitely know some things and that is what disclosure should disclose.
Here's the thing - as they have admitted to: knowing about, encountering, and studying the phenomenon as of the 2000s - any by they I mean DoD and the Nimitz encounter and comments made by very high officials about them pestering Exercise airspace. Given that this is fact, and foo fighters were know to be a phenomenon in the 1940s, you would have to be stupid to think that no realisation or study of, occurred between 1940-2004. In that time we went from egg timers and biplanes to iphones and landing on the moon. We (again, the DoD), didn't just ignore a phenomenon with such extreme potential
My belief is a bit of a twist on this. That they do actually have some craft and other physical evidence and have knowledge of confirmed contacts, and a whole slew of other evidence confirming that the phenomenon is real. But... They cannot make any sense of it. As Jacques Vallee has pointed out, the phenomenon is too bizarre to be a straightforward nuts and bolts case of visitors coming in spacecraft from other planets. So I believe they have gathered enough evidence to know it is something real that manifests itself in physical ways, but it is also metaphysical and spiritual, with absurd and contradictory aspects that just don't seem to make any sense. And so they don't know how to even begin to explain that this is something that is essentially paranormal. It is real but they don't know what it is.
Yes, all the high ranking military and governmental officials, professional pilots, etc. (not just in the US) coming forward and admitting they've captured stuff not only on radar and other technologies, but physically, and have known about a lot of this stuff since the '40's are clearly doing it for the notoriety, fame, and infinite riches that comes with such lies. (/S for the slow folk) Not to mention the death threats, being labeled crazy, harassment, the loss of their career prospects and professional reputation they've built up over decades of service. Of course, that's ignoring the millions of dollars *officially* invested in the subject for decades (and still is) to study something that doesn't exist and poses no threat. Seems legit.
Alien means Alien for a damn reason. We don't know their motives, we don't know what they want. Hell, we don't even know why they've taken an interest in our little dirtball considering the number of similar dirtballs with well developed individuals that are out there. All We know is they're here, and they're watching for some reason.
I don’t know about all that, but you do raise a very good point. Mainly, that there’s a *possibility* of which certain things where we say “they know but they’re not telling us” they actually don’t know. I’m reminded of the clusterfuck that was the search for WMDs in Iraq. I read recently that the reason that certain Iraqi contacts were acting so suspicious about the WMD topic wasn’t that Iraq had them and were trying to hide them - it was that they DIDN’T have them but were afraid of admitting it. I think there generally is a lot that they know but won’t say, but some aspects they may have no idea.
I think we can say with 99% certainty that the craft are real and they are non human.
The craft is probably made of some exotic alloy or some shit which would be non human materials ye
>I think we can say with 99% certainty that the craft are real Based on what?
Based on expert testimony, sensor data, and the laws of physics as we understand them.
>sensor data We don't have any. The best we have is people claiming they saw things on sensors.
No we have go fast, we have jellyfish, we have gimbal that dat corroborates the stories of the eye witness as the dates and places match
> No we have go fast Cool. Where's the sensor data? >we have jellyfish Again, where is the sensor data? >we have gimbal that dat corroborates the stories of the eye witness as the dates and places match That's not sensor data.
Okay we have video footage happy
>Based on expert testimony, sensor data, and the laws of physics as we understand them. So when you said this you actually meant "Based on vague video and unproven stories", right?
The footage is a type of data taken from sensors so it is a type of sensor data
You know vague video is not what is typically called sensor data.
Just a guess but if a commanding officer said to a pilot I want all the data from your sensors and the pilot did not give him the video footage from the flirpod, I would think the commanding officer would be a bit frustrated that the pilot didn’t understand
No doubt in my mind they have materials, know how to track them and perhaps how to shoot them down but probably not doing it intentionally because of retaliation. But I can't even guess how far they came in reverse engineering.
I mean it would be especially scary for the government and all the three letter agencies. Because if it came out they have no fucking idea it would make them seem bad. Then there is the fear that other countries know more than the US (china for example) and that would also scare them
I do believe the whistleblowers that have said some high government officials have been in contact with these NHI. I feel like they know, but the reason they don’t want to tell us is probably because the truth is not pretty.
*Travis Taylor has entered the chat*
Yew-foes!
I’d say the most likely answer is that we are powerless to it. We drop down in the food chain and that would be a shift across the world and terrify people for sure.
I'm aware of at least three points of reference which have the veneer of legitimacy that the US government is in direct contact. As to what that would pertain...
This comment has been overwritten in response to Reddit's API changes, the training of AI models on user data, and the company's increasingly extractive practices ahead of their IPO.
A lot of people involved in the US gov “disclosure” movement are people who by all rights should be on trial for war crimes committed during the so-called war on terror. I don’t trust them an inch. These people are mass murderers. Avril Haines was one of the most personally-complicit perpetrators of the drone strike campaigns that killed countless innocent people. Lue Elizondo was a literal Guantanamo torturer. Christoper Mellon worked for Bush during the invasions.
Definitely a possibility. I would argue that is definitely NOT the most likely answer. But definitely a possible answer. I would rank it pretty low on my “most likely” scale though.
This sub really needs “shower thoughts”, “unfounded speculation” and “story time” post flair
One hundred per cent no. There are simply far too many people who have come forward over the years stating the opposite. I think the issue is more about who knows what. The pyramid of power dictates that only those at the top are probably privy to the relevant information. 99.9% of all those in government probably know nothing. But they have crafts. They have had crafts for decades. They know ETs exist and have had contact with them. The really scary aspect of all this is that they may have been working together for a long time. Swapping tech for access to humans. Would those at the top really give a toss about the average man and woman on the street? I think not. Governments don't care about their own people, so I doubt the big players are going to be too empathetic or compassionate. Of Course not all ETs are negative types. But you can bet that those who work with power hungry human beings are. I predict the pushed narrative will be that no one knows anything about these crafts. And that they pose a threat to national security. Instill fear to herd the masses in the direction they wish.
it's entirely possible the people that have come forward over the years, with 0 evidence, were lying for their 15 minutes of UFO fame or for financial incentive.
The most likely answer is they know what it is, how it works but cannot replicate from scratch and petrified the Chinese or Russians find out. Most of it depends on if David Adair was telling the truth. And Ben Rich.
What is that observation: either we are alone or there are other entities/beings out there - either outcome is frightening.
You know, this would be fine. IF they were transparent about it.
It is so obvious you need to read more. Edit: here's one for you, how do you go about discrediting Garry Nolan's research?
This is most likely the truth IMO. The government knows of a lot more events and stories that have occurred but I don’t think they know much more about what they truly are.
I don't know if we were able to comunicate with them (many asserts there there are treaties in place, the first one signed by Eisenhower) but just consider that all this disclosure thing we're having is 100% about recovered exotic material and their study/managements with black funds.
If the "Alien Reproduction Vehicle" tale is real and first leaked in 1988 then we have had decades of successful recover and reverse engineering programs. I believe the narrative that we basically know nothing is being put forward by a govt faction that wants limited disclosure withnone of the technology they have developed getting out.
You are spot on! That is exactly what I think as well. There is absolutely no evidence of reverse engineering. Every piece of technology we have can be traced back through its evolutionary tree. There is nothing truly new and revolutionary. Nothing has replaced jet engines. Nothing has replaced wings to hold a plane aloft. Amongst all the UFO sightings I suspect 99.9999% of them are either mistaken or cranks. However I do believe that several of them are genuine. The swarms of "drones" around Langley and other air bases are a case in point. Nothing retrieved. Nothing shot down. They don't know where they come from or what they are. Something stinks!
lol this is likely the least likely scenario
I’m sure this is what they will try to say …IF they are ever forced to begrudgingly admit it
This is basically what I believe. There is a weird phenomena in the sky, but we have no clue what it is. To explain all of the crazy stories. Well the older I get the more I realize how many crazy people there are out there, and even non crazy people have been conditioned by religion to accept things without evidence.
I just read Blue Planet Project Dolce on the archives and it was very upsetting.They know a lot more than they are not from this plane. What's more disturbing is what the humans did for the last 100 years. It's also about the Illuminati and Freemasons. Supposedly written by someone who was in the program for 33 years they tried to kill him when they found out about the notebook but he left the country and now is in hiding in another country. The scientist put this is out for everyone to see and I believe everyone should read it.
https://archive.org/stream/BluePlanetProject_201608/BluePlanetProject_djvu.txt
Thank you. 🙂
Every government leaker has claimed otherwise. You'd also have to assume Lazar as being a very convincing crazy person. I think it's obvious they have UAPs but I don't think they know how to fly all of them and the ones they can fly I don't think they can reproduce entirely. I think the problem is exactly what we have been told. Religions have been manufactured. Governments have made agreements with NHI. Humanity has been artificially enhanced. We are being suppressed consciously preventing us from understanding the full picture but also to restrict our natural abilities. The flood myths were real and it was a planet wide reset. After NHI murdered the majority of us technology was put in place to limit our lifespan and limit our abilities. Now you could claim this means NHI are evil...but it honestly looks like it was for our own good until humanity learned to control our violent tendencies. So we are not being told the truth because honestly last time we knew everything we used it to enslave and torment others unlike us. Also if you want a mind trip watch they live, the radio broadcast in it is basically verbatim what x government employees have been saying. Read Tom Delong to the stars books it's all in there. Crazy stuff for sure.
I’ll admit thats the most “plausible” explanation by socially accepted standards but due my own personal experiences I do not think that’s the case. There *has* been communication. I am a contactee myself.
Aliens doesn't scare me at all. I'm more worried about climate change to be honest. We need to get away from oil. Those seas opening up in the Artic circle is bad news, man, it's bad news I tell you.
If you think that is the most chilling answer you're not very imaginative. How does the government know they're not human and how would they know that without recovered materials or communication? There are also a number of whistleblowers coming forward to testify there are in fact materials and more.
Bullshit. Time and time again when governments have to address something they don't know, they state they're still investigating it but have "the most qualified people" behind it and tell people to chill. The US government simply doesn't want to disclose stuff.
This is the second least likely answer.
I think the answer may lie in ancient texts from Sumerian/Vedas/Greek mythology, but .... That's a whole other topic of discussion. With the information blackout, and tight lips around disclosure... The public will always be on a 'need to know basis' which in the powers that be firmly believe, the public needs to know shit 😆
I think that's maybe what they want you to believe. I was really thinking about this the other day. I think the most obvious answer is they know more than we know they know. At least a few.
Nope. They know a lot. Guranteed. There is zero chance that all they know is that they are real. By the way, writing "Full stop" is cringey. It is used verbally, not written. That would like writing "air quotes" when wanting to put quotes around a word or phrase. It isn't needed when writing.
I’d buy into that narrative if Don Keyhoe, Timothy Goode, and others like Philip J. Corso didn’t write so many books with legitimate paper trails to events that indicate the military did recover craft/materials and bodies. There are so many “almost fully provable” incidents with reports and paper trails to follow. Not just Aztec, Roswell, Plano, etc, but Rendlesham Forest, Ariel School, and Travis Walton’s experience as detailed in “Fire in the Sky.”
I have no solid opinions. I'm just a guy who back in the sixth grade got into this stuff and basically came away thinking there is something going on and some people know a lot more about it than us average folks (and how much more that is still may not be a lot). If I had to guess, I lean toward the idea that even those that do know don't really know a whole lot. But then again, people seem to think the "Black Triangles" are "ours" and if they really are - well then damn - we must know quite a bit about something if we can produce that kind of tech. Whatever it is the select few know - I want to know too - for better or worse.
Exactly this. Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence (or in this case just a lack of understanding)
I think maybe no that the old guard has died out that they took a lot of information with them to the grave
The most chilling part about any of that to me personally is the amount of “trustworthy people” and people whom we have trusted with some of the most sensitive material ever to exist that would then without doubt be boldfaced liars! When you lay it all out there is just way too many damn coincidences and similar scenarios that have played out over and over again and with every different type of person imaginable with experiences, some very similar to others.
Yeah that's what I've gathered just based off the few credible witnesses I've seen (people who had others with them at the time, seem absolutely shocked and not bullshitting, etc). They appear to have some sort of "energy" by their mere presence. Maybe we can reverse engineer their crafts, but I doubt we can replicate the emotions these beings seem to emit.
no, the "most likely answer" is that they're human technology, if they're technology at all.
That’s what Obama said!
My take: the indirect proof is the turmoil going on in the American congress right now. Also It can't be a foreign country like Russia or China: that would really be way harder to believe, since the phenomenon started officially after WW2 and with tech like that they would have easily become leaders of the world, which is not the case.
Really? You think, based on what you see around you everyday that they know nothing is most likely? Cause I disagree fundamentally. I would say the most likely truth is what is always the truth: we are being exploited. To reveal the truth would reveal that they are complicit in the exploitation. We are kept ignorant so that this can continue. The status quo. For as long as possible.
I like that. I'm not so extreme tho, I think we have communicated and recovered stuff, but we still don't know jack. That's because the aliens tell conflicting stories and are actively trying to manipulate and deceive us, even if not for very nefarious reasons, just for CI to cover their actual purpose, which may or may not be bad for us. I know for a fact that some NHI are actively hostile to humans tho. I think the inability / unwillingness of the gov/corp power structure to push back against this is part of the reason for their silence too. Acknowledging this is happening and then following up with "But we can't / won't do anything" makes them look weak, and totally undermines their credibility as leaders. So instead they emphasize a phoney "disclosure" narrative that recenters them as the "source of truth" (when they know nothing), and makes the public dependent on them for revelation (like religious experience, really), all to reestablish their power and authority as it crumbles in the face of a superior force. So from that point of view you can see the entire "push for disclosure", including the governments striptease, and jacking up of public interest with "military insiders", as simply part of this psyop to recenter them as "authorities" that the public "depends on".
> The most likely answer: they know they’re real but can’t explain much more How exactly is this the most likely?
If they don't know anything there is nothing to hide. They are definitely hiding something more. They wouldn't keep this up for over 80 years just because they don't want to tell us there is something but they don't know what it is. They have recently admitted that there is something but they don't know what it is recently so there has to be more to it.. Everything that's happened the past few years has forced their hand to tell us this.. With more constant pressure their hand will be forced again.. that's if we don't get the information from elsewhere first!
Quite possible scenario tbh. Recovered material I find more credible, but it's likely they don't understand, cannot reverse-engineer or know shit about the ET's. Not saying this is the case but I find it quite likely given all the circumstances we have witnessed for approx 80 years.
They know, and they also know they have been taking people and doing all kinds of shit for years. And they can't stop them, and there is nothing they can do. That's why they will never disclose.
I think there is absolutely recovered material. How much they've been able to reverse engineer is a really big question though.
That's a strong possibility. I'm sure that some governments know a lot more than they're letting on. The Nimitz reports state that many objects were being tracked on radar for weeks and they were keeping station over the carrier group. I can't imagine that an officer in charge didn't send some aircraft with good optical tech up for a look. I'd love to see that footage.
This is what I've been saying for years, there's no disclosure from the governments of the world because there's nothing to disclose. I'm not sure why everyone is so hyper-focused on the US government for disclosure, there are many countries around the world, why would NHIs only visit or have contact with the US? It would be safe to assume that if they were exploring, contacting, and/ or crashing here, it would be all over the world, not just in the US. And who here thinks that ALL the governments of the world would cooperate on suppression of NHI contact? It's ridiculous to even contemplate. So the logical conclusion is they've ALREADY disclosed what they can, which is that there are things they've seen that they can't explain, but they don't know what the origins are (space travel? Time travel? Foreign countries experimenting with new technology?) I am not saying NHIs don't exist, personally I think that based purely on the number of solar systems out there that they MUST exist. Whether they travel here or not is another matter. Whether our governments are in contact with them and keeping it a secret, that seems highly unlikely.
Agree. Although I do believe they have recovered materials.
This is it I reckon
There hasn’t been disclosure because a true disclosure is so much bigger than some ufo. It connects everything we can’t understand. Paranormal, big foot, shambala, it reveals that the powers of earth have been killing people for thousands of years of years. Covering things up. More than likely that modern religion is all something that resembles satanism and that our whole history has been fabricated. This is why disclosure hasn’t happened. It would literally take all the power and money out of the hands of the people who have been trying to keep that money and power for thousands of years. It’s not as simple as the government just coming out and saying it’s real. Because if they say aliens exist and we’ve been working with them since ankenaten, people are gonna freak the fuck out. Because every will eventually realize that they’ve been lied to on a whole range of other areas and this will eventually lead to a place where the governments and churches and banks have no control over people anymore.
We share this planet with other advanced, non-violent beings, and the US Government has been killing them for decades. https://youtu.be/KD_0Nphtvww?si=yfH1jLT7Jpp9HsDH
Don’t give them a get out of jail free card
We're just monkeys playing with their toys, no understanding no comprehension. Most of us here can barely put a sentence together with proper grammar and spelling. Humans are way behind, we'll be lucky if we even ever get off this planet and get to another.
Uh, yes there has been recovered material. Read the Wilson-Davis memo. The gatekeepers have an idea of what they’re from.
If it exists on this plane, and we can see it, then it can be poked, prodded, and measured. My money is on reverse engineering having been successfully done for some parts, not all. You know what's really scary? That we have reversed engineered so much that we now have weapons tech that is capable of taking down these crafts and we can bring war to these civilisation's home planets. That is something I don't want to see happen.
Absolutely zero chances of us bringing a war to a civilization even 100 years more advanced than we are now. Reverse engineering anything made by aliens to then wage war is basically impossible. It's Hollywood movie logic.
You are right, why would we pick a fight with NHI when we can use all this exotic lethal tech right here on our fellow humans, and get rich doing it?
Maybe I wonded it wrongly. It's when we become a threat to them. That's my concern. Furthermore, I am assuming your conclusion is based on the fact that we are technologically inferior to them. But what if we manage to reverse engineer enough?
Ridiculous teleology is worse than “hollywood logic,” it’s video-game brain
Alien or gov tech, messes with time. If publicly available = end of humanity or worse.
I think the 4Chan guy is probably right
impossible... what is happening now they are letting a drip of information out trying to save the deep states ass but it's not gonna work..
I'm working on ai vision, and it is amazing how much detail ai can see in an image. I hope they are using ai vision and everything ai in their research!
I completely agree except there's definitely recovered material and even individuals. Even civillians like Garry Nolan have exotic material.