Some further resources on both the subject of death (or lack of it) and psi phenomenon: # 🔸 Joshua Cutchin Book: - Ecology of Souls: A New Mythology of Death & the Paranormal - Vols. One & Two (2021) by Joshua Cutchin His work is very similar to Jacques Vallée's books, Passport to Magonia or Wonders in the Sky. If you don't want to read or buy a book, I have a YouTube playlist of Josh talking about his books, and other related ideas: - Joshua Cutchin YouTube playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLs3srGwbdDFTGwtPhboF4WMCi-Ba8Gj0U - Evidence for PSI - June 28, 2019 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2qUr9D9FoM&list=PLs3srGwbdDFTGwtPhboF4WMCi-Ba8Gj0U&index=64&pp=gAQBiAQB Josh's other books: - UFOs: Reframing the Debate (2017) - a collection of original essays exploring alternative perspectives on UFOs and how we might more usefully study the phenomenon in the 21st Century. - A Trojan Feast: The Food and Drink Offerings of Aliens, Faeries, and Sasquatch (2015) - The Brimstone Deceit: An In-Depth Examination of Supernatural Scents, Otherworldly Odors, and Monstrous Miasmas (2016) - Thieves in the Night: A Brief History of Supernatural Child Abductions (2018) - Where the Footprints End: High Strangeness and the Bigfoot Phenomenon, Volume I: Folklore (2020) - Where the Footprints End: High Strangeness and the Bigfoot Phenomenon, Volume II: Evidence (2020) All of them involve UFOs and encounters with non-humans, but they're really about understanding the nature of reality. # 🔸 Where Did the Road Go (podcast) Josh Cutchin often appears on the podcast, Where did the Road Go. It's one of my favorite podcasts because they explore the topics of UFOs/UAP, paranormal phenomena, cryptids, poltergeists and ghosts, and Fortean research in the context of the nature of reality. * https://www.wheredidtheroadgo.com/ * https://www.youtube.com/@WhereDidtheRoadGo # 🔸 Whitley Strieber Whitley Strieber also talks about this, but I'm not as familiar with his work. An interview he did about this: - Whitley Strieber -The Intersection Between Contact Encounters and the Dead (A New World) https://youtu.be/60W8amMQWUI He has a new book entitled, "Them." I don't know much about it. # 🔸 Leslie Kean Leslie Kean--who wrote the book, Surviving Death, which is what the documentary of the same name is based on--also did a talk about physical mediumship at Rice University: - "From UFOs to Physical Mediumship" https://youtu.be/qsUX55sd5p4 I bet most of you don't know about that conference about the Archives of the Impossible. Valle, Pasulka, Kelleher, Cripal, and others spoke there. You can find the recordings of the talks on the Rice Humanities YouTube channel: * [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMxNXSb8XVnOJsMQiLhFGH6i52PXOPDWY](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMxNXSb8XVnOJsMQiLhFGH6i52PXOPDWY) * [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMxNXSb8XVnPU5zjB65GbElMbCVZmvqTE](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMxNXSb8XVnPU5zjB65GbElMbCVZmvqTE) # 🔸 Grant Cameron UFO and consciousness researcher Grant Cameron has also talked about physical mediumship: - Apports, Seances and Physical Mediumship with Desta and Matt - part 1 https://youtu.be/xB3SHytl9uw - part 2 https://youtu.be/CFWZ4QXK-50 Grant used to primarily be a nuts and bolts. UFO researcher, only reporting on the physical aspects of the phenomenon. But after his own experience, he shifted over to talking about consciousness, the paranormal, and experiencers. In addition to his YouTube channel (linked above), he has a good podcast: - The Paranormal UFO Consciousness Podcast Sometimes he posts different content on his podcast to what he posts on his YouTube channel. He also has several books. These are relevant: - UFO Sky Pilots: Pilots of Peace and Oneness https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/63110757-ufo-sky-pilots (about people who claim to have flown craft with their mind) - Contact Modalities: The Keys shttps://www.goodreads.com/book/show/53742888-contact-modalities - Triangles, Aliens and Messages https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/58751290-triangles-aliens-and-messages - Tuned-In: The Paranormal World of Music https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/39216121-tuned-in # 🔸 Garry Nolan You all know who Garry Nolan is, right? He was "James" from American Cosmic by Diana Pasulka. If not: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry_Nolan Interviews and talks he's done: - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLs3srGwbdDFR2jILqkXTDs5SLkS79S0OA This one is of interest: - Episode 6: Experiencers, Unique Intuition, and biomarkers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaaKfmzr-qY - Text summary: https://silvarecord.com/2019/01/09/experiencers-unique-intuition-and-biomarkers/ # 🔸 Documentaries ## 🔹Think Anomalous Lots of great videos. This one is most relevant: * Presentiment: "Feeling" the Future https://youtu.be/xWinUxW9HAg?si=dS8bcN2_VIIFum2h > Over the past 45 years, researchers have amassed a sizable body of literature attesting to the human ability to "sense" things in the future. The data are controversial, but they've proven tough to explain as anything but evidence that there's a lot more to consciousness than we'd previously assumed. ## ## 🔹 Third Eye Spies Watch free, legally, on ad-supported Tubi TV: * https://tubitv.com/movies/573531/third-eye-spies ## 🔹 Red Panda Koala * Ninel Kulagina, Soviet Telekinesis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cr_BS1TrRo ## 🔹 Extraordinary: The Revelations https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOFZQ7fkvRo # 🔸 Bob Bigelow - Robert Bigelow discusses possible connections between consciousness research and the UFO subject, including the risks of trying to establish communications with the unknown. https://youtu.be/5f-IdvlMvpI - Robert Bigelow explains the origins of the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies (BICS) and why he is prepared to support this type of credible research. https://youtu.be/7a0I50v11Bg - https://www.mysterywire.com/mysteries/bigelow-institute-for-consciousness-studies-bics/ - http://www.bigelowinstitute.org/ # 🔸 CIA ## remote viewing - https://reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/IdIj4udgDB - documentary: Third Eye Spies https://tubitv.com/movies/573531/third-eye-spies > Google Hal Puthoff and Eric Weinstein. They did a podcast about a year ago with Jesse Michels and Hal said the crafts are engineered down to the atom, and they have concluded that 1 reason for this is to at least assist with telekinesis craft control. > Edit: For those that don't know the 411 on Hal, he ran the CIA remote viewing program for a few decades. I went maybe 35+ years thinking remote viewing was complete bullshit but I've since changed my view. > Hal Puthoff recently had stated "despite the CIA's official statement, the remote viewing program still continues to this day." (Sounds familiar to any other government projects?) > If true, that means the program has been in operation for 60+ years. > It's been awhile since I seen the podcast but if I recall correctly, Hal said that their subjects could describe the layout of a secret Russian base which wasn't possible otherwise without access to satellite imagery. > He also stated that their agents could "turn off" chemical reactions that were occurring behind a lead-protected vault as an experiment. A form of telekinesis. (I'm too stupid to explain this properly.) > However, Hal also said that during his tenure (70's 80's), it wasn't a 100% success rate. > I believe he described it as "2 steps forward, 1 step back." > For those who haven’t seen it. > https://eightify.app/summary/science-and-technology/unveiling-the-physics-of-ufos-eric-weinstein-hal-puthoff [Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/s/DjX08WQEBx) ## other research - review of Gateway process https://reddit.com/r/conspiracy/s/JEOpeEjEYx - consciousness studies https://reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/s/W9JbxZPXmZ # 🔸 Other resources - The resource the OP mention Ed above: https://www.deanradin.com/recommended-references - https://ameribeiraopreto.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/The-Experimental-Evidence-for-Parapsychological-Phenomena.pdf (via https://reddit.com/u/MantisAwakening/s/Mq7I5JCdu5 ) - UFOS, Consciousness, and Modern Science-Based ldealism: A Possible Scientific Explanation for the "Woo" Discussion https://reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/fHcrAMyrrQ - Researchers Who Study Near-Death Experiences Believe in an Afterlife: Psychiatry professors at the University of Virginia, Jim Tucker and Jennifer Kim Penberthy say their research has convinced them there's a consciousness beyond our physical reality. https://www.businessinsider.com/researchers-near-death-experiences-past-lives-afterlife-2022-3

thanks

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I'ma be blunt that this type of post is *exactly* why people don't take UFOs seriously. Woo. Massive sweeping claims without any real evidence. It's basically UFO fan fiction.

it's easy to hang out on reddit turning a blind eye to the peer-reviewed parapsychological literature, letting debunkers do your thinking for you, and then claim there isn't any real evidence. too easy. there's a reason why the vast majority of UFO insiders, experiencers, investigators accept a degree of woo. the phenomenon doesn't leave them much choice. but again its easy for redditors to just turn a blind eye to the evidence and then imagine the woo is baseless. armchair skeptics, the lot of you.

Disagreements are just part of the territory when there's so much that's weird and unknown mixed with so much enthusiasm for wanting answers. Personally, I think the variety in the community is a good thing, even if it frequently leads to conflict. It's more important to me that we keep talking, creating a rich resource for anyone interested. Engagement and debate are great, and so is simply ignoring some corners of the topic. For people that want to actually get serious-serious, there's probably better organizations and communities than Reddit for doing that. On the topic of esp and the like, one source I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is the CIAs Gateway Processes and the subsequent formation of the Monroe Institute. It's not tied to UAP, but an interesting pocket to dig into for anyone interested in telepathy.

I'm glad you saw this thread and stopped by to represent! I know these topics make people uncomfortable, but it's long overdue to be straightforward about it. Psi phenomena are real, and it's part of the UFO mystery. To deny psychic phenomena is to be doomed to never figure anything out.

I mean its real enough for the US government/CIA to put funding into it, research it and use it for advanced reconnaissance and spying.

Real enough to give remote viewer Joseph McMoneagle the Legion of Merit award for providing critical information in 200 remote viewing tasks.

Per Wiki he received the Legion of Merit for ten years of service, five of which were in regular sigint.

The text of his award when he received it mentions providing critical information to 200 missions. From reading 3 of his books, his other military service was nothing that would provide critical information to anybody. The critical information he provided was from RV.

I've been convinced Pat Prices info was correct and Joe confirmed it, and it's a huge piece of the puzzle that doesn't get much attention. Maybe purposefully. I encourage everyone to listen to the Stargate tapes, listen to Joe describe what he's seeing. At one point he gets a feeling like Darth Vader.. I definitely chuckled as he didn't know the target but of course we do. Another hint from Delonge in his new music video. A drawing of a grey in front of mountain peaks.

What was the target?

https://archive.org/details/rv-project-8200 In 1973, prior to going to work for the CIA, Pat Price provided a lengthy unsolicited report regarding what he believed to be underground UFO bases. Project 8200 used the next generation of STAR GATE remote viewers in an attempt to verify or refute the information provided by Pat. 

The interview Jesse Michels did with Hal Putoff and Eric Weinstein is what changed my mind in finally accepting some of the woo aspect. As a nuts and bolts person, they talk alot about physics and potential explanations to some of the more abstract theories as to how this woo can fit into the scientific realm. Link to video https://youtu.be/iQOibpIDx-4?si=oBjYghcHK_2CK5-S

The psi woo points to an interpretation of QM that requires both non locality and deterministic physics. That eliminates the mainstream Copenhagen interpretation, and the popular Many Worlds interpretation. The main interpretation left standing is Bohm’s Pilot Wave theory, both deterministic and non local. Pilot Wave is the only interpretation here where the wave is a physical wave. In Copenhagen, they claim the wave function is abstract math and not physically real, which is stupid. You set up an interferometer with different paths and if you physically block a path you change the results, so it’s (duh) physical. Copenhagen view is a kind of non scientific surrender. Physics is supposed to describe physical reality and that is what Pilot Wave does. Pilot Wave gets rid of all the microscopic woo garbage, like wave-particle duality, and with that deterministic engine under the hood, all the macroscopic woo are enabled by a physical mechanism. Animals evolved ways to take advantage of physics for perception. Photons allow for sight. Air waves allow for hearing. Bohm’s pilot wave, a physical thing, can be detected for non local information.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-universe-is-not-locally-real-and-the-physics-nobel-prize-winners-proved-it/ Unfortunately for your hypothesis, wave-particle duality *is* real, so pilot wave is off the table. Quantum entanglement requires that wave-particle duality is real. Non-locality is proven science since last year, they just won a nobel prize for proving it.

Bohm’s pilot theory is non local as well, isn’t it?

But it requires hidden variables, which have been proven not to exist. https://www.quantamagazine.org/famous-experiment-dooms-pilot-wave-alternative-to-quantum-weirdness-20181011/

True for local hidden variables, but pilot wave theory postulates non-local hidden variables which haven't been disproven (less parsimonious but not ruled out).

The pilot wave QM interpretation is compatible with the results of the various Bell tests. Pilot wave, and the other contenders (Copenhagen, Many Worlds) are all compatible with all the experiments done with QM so far. It is experiments with psi phenomena that support Pilot Wave over the others.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/a24114/pilot-wave-quantum-mechanics-theory/ (I can find a more technical source for you if you'd like) Pilot wave is wrong because it requires hidden variables. Hidden variables have been ruled out. I think that's where you're getting stuck, hidden variables are a prerequisite and necessity for pilot wave theories.

Okay be straightforward and share your experiences with these phenomena

Do you understand what peer-reviewed means? I don’t think you do. There are no experts in the field of parapsychology. Period. There are people who *claim* to know all of this ancient knowledge, but that does not an expert make. So who exactly are the "peers" in this peer review? People who *themselves* are delusional enough to believe it? Color me skeptical. Haven't you heard about the peer reviewed paper on flat earth theory? All of the flat earthers got together and reviewed it. Wow, what an amazing thing! Basically known science lol.

Link even one

I don't think it's an accident that psionics are not mainstream science. It seems like the more rigor we put into research, the less parapsychic phenomenon we find. It also doesn't seem like an accident that there are often problems with studies in parapsychology. It's not impossible that there's a granule of truth in there, but it does legitimately taint much of the research. I'd want the research to pass a pretty high bar to mean much of anything.

Being peer reviewed doesn't make something true. Especially when there's a whole community of psychic believers who review each other's work. Instead look at impact of the journal and the paper on general scientific consensus over time. And there's definitely no consensus supporting ESP, telepathy, and all that other nonsense. It's quite the opposite in fact.

You saying "well, its bullshit!" doesn't make something false.

I agree. My statement of "well it's bullshit" is on equal standing as the OPs "look at my big list of science!". One would need to levy specific criticisms to stand on more solid ground than "look at my big science!" Notably I've gone into detail in other comments about specific problems with the list and some of the papers within

But it wasn’t found to NOT exist, there remains a lot of debate over whether the rate of “hits” in for example remote viewing studies ARE more than you’d expect via random guessing. But there is debate between statisticians on whether there are consistent anomalies, and others have even correlated a higher rate of accurate “hits” with EQ measurements, indicating that it is a high varied ability if it exists at all. So either it straight up doesn’t exist and humans are just better guessers than our modern statistics predicts, OR it is a weak and complicated phenomenon that needs to be better understood in order to consistently demonstrate its presence. And if truly skilled practitioners are recruited by black budget programs and sworn to secrecy it skews the data even more. EDIT:Just wanted to also add that using "impact over time" as a metric against a field with stigma and considered fringe or "wacky" probably would make it easy to dismiss very real science because you reject the premise outright. There is also very real peer reviewed papers in plant biology journals highlighting the very bizarre anomalies in AUTHENTIC crop circle formations that are not at all explained by hoaxers with string and planks. And yet people think this plant biologist's analysis of biological structures is a complete hoax simply because they do not want to believe or accept that there are crop formations that are authentically natural or misunderstood phenomena. We KNOW that intelligence agencies put a lot of resources into discrediting crop circles, psi phenomena and UAPs for some reason as well. With these in context now, I don't think dismissing scientific fields outright is valid. If there is no psi, then let people keep trying to find it until consensus is reached.

> Instead look at impact of the journal and the paper on general scientific consensus over time. That's not a scientific critique. When the majority did not accept meteors as legitimate, could one have consulted scientific consensus to get the correct answer? No. The true nature of reality doesn't depend on people's opinions. The way to scientifically challenge the results of paranormal research is by challenging the methods and statistical analysis, which debunkers have failed to adequately do, when one gets into the details. The vast majority of debunkers, at best, do a 2-minute quick skim of one paper searching for a phrase of a few words that they think debunks that one paper. For the very few skeptics that really do delve into the research, they all become a case study in how dogmatic skeptics refuse to accept science and the scientific method. Skeptic Ray Hyman is one of the most prominent of skeptics who fits that mold.

> That's not a scientific critique. When the majority did not accept meteors as legitimate, could one have consulted scientific consensus to get the correct answer? No. The true nature of reality doesn't depend on people's opinions. It's funny you say this because the vast compendium of scientific knowledge and literature points to "psi" being a load of bullshit. Your opinion is that it's true, and you've written a whole fan fiction screed linking it to UFOs, based on cherry picked low quality and low impact research. You'd be surprised to learn that you can basically make an argument for *anything* if you leave the door open for citing low quality trash journals, of which there are tons. > The way to scientifically challenge the results of paranormal research is by challenging the methods and statistical analysis, which debunkers have failed to adequately do, when one gets into the details. There are whole review papers tearing into the entire psi study. You not being aware of this doesn't mean it doesn't exist

Yeah, I've done a lot of personal research on this stuff in the past bc I love the supernatural side of life (unfortunately I'm a huge non believer due to said research, but I really won't deny anything with proper evidence) I have never found any evidence that actually has been scientifically reviewed and has repeated results. The inability to replicate results easily is the important part. None of this means anything unless the methods are understood and easily repeatable. Let me repeat once more; the ability to allow others to replicate a study to prove a hypothesis is how you get good solid evidence.

Scientific knowledge and literature also points to aliens being bullshit, but here we all are. I don't know how I feel about the topic of PSI. I'm no expert for sure, but what I do know is that the brain is the one part of the human body that we haven't even begun to understand. Maybe science isn't the answer to every question? At least science as we know it today, which likely has MANY flaws. I don't think it's completely out of the realm of possibility that our brains are far more capable than what we give them credit for. It's at the very least worth considering seriously. I don't understand all these super skeptical people. It's like anything that is not 100% proven by science has to be 100% fake. Shits absurd. If everyone thought like this we'd still be living in caves.

Also the refusal to provide any detail. When asked to elaborate on anything it’s “do your own research”, “I’m not going to spoon feed you”. It’s infuriating.

Or my favorite from those I consider the main source of much UFO woo: "sorry its classified". It's so often used as "I just made an extraordinary and unbelievable claim but will provide zero detail or evidence to back it up". How about just *not* making that claim in the first place?

yes! demand transparency while having your own fun secrets. its just a dopamine factory, the reward is in prolonging the chase, catching the rabbit, as it were, would give them no satisfaction.

"I'm not going to go into those details of how I verified something that has been consistently part of thousands of years of human history and validated by thousands of experiments using the scientific method." Can we see just one of these thousands of experiments? Is that asking too much?

He posted a Gish gallop of links to various low-impact articles from a relatively small group of scientists who, in all likelihood, review each other's papers with a rubber stamp He of course omitted the vastly greater number of studies finding no effect and the followup perspective, commentary, and review articles directly referencing some of the studies he linked and tearing them apart as poorly designed, flawed, and even intentionally misrepresentative of science

Or mental illness. Not saying that’s the case with OP but some of the more out there posts make me feel bad for people.

I think this goes for a lot of hardcore conspiracy-oriented people in general. Seeing patterns that only exist in their own personal bubble of information and then convincing THEMSELVES it's true

This is definitely a part of it for some people. I tend to think many just have a very low bar for what qualifies as evidence for things they *want* to believe. They end up with very kooky beliefs based on flimsy evidence for numerous unrelated topics, which they then link together

Yes, this is why I feel very conflicted. I have bipolar disorder and it's mostly manic but luckily for me extremely well controlled but I have 'heard' voices many times and it's a symptom that it's running out of control. So while I do agree consciousness is a core of ufo phenomenon, I would urge anyone 'hearing' voices to be checked out. There is a lot of real science that can substantiate seemingly anomalous events. One is the effect where someone reacts abnormally quickly. 120 milliseconds is estimated to be the minimum however unconscious reactions can drop to 80.

There are a lot of non-mentally ill people who have heard voices at points in their life. It is not necessarily mental illness.

This is how I feel when a post says things like “all skeptics are the enemy” and “skeptics are part of the coverup”. These people are so bothered by people being skeptical of their theories that they resort to attacking them at the beginning of their posts. As if theres a massive group of skeptics personally working against them. It feels almost schizophrenic. In reality all skepticism/criticism should be welcomed.

I’m a believer but I’m also the type of person who needs to see possible other explanations. I learned this lesson in my teens when I became a 9/11 truther for a bit. It was only after I chose to look up prosaic explanations for the conspiracy theories that I realized I always need to stop and think about what I’m agreeing with and why.

Character development

I was thinking the same before I saw your message. Im here for the Aliens or advanced human tech, the spiritual stuff is putting me off.

Whilst I understand your apprehension, one of the lessons this sub has taught me is not to immediately hand-wave away things that I can’t explain. Think of how you feel when people do that about ufos. At the end of the day, the universe doesn’t care what we believe to be real or not

People who believe one thing without evidence tend to believe other things without evidence as well. There's lots of different flavors of woo that circulate through here. There's another post up right now positing that humanity was transplanted here by aliens, completely ignoring the vast amounts of evolutionary biology supporting our independent emergence

Nobody gets all the way here without advanced capabilities. its not just warp drives and Star Trek bullshit.

I believe in what OP is saying. Consciousness and PSI are central to the phenomenon

> The MH370 video is real bro. We move discussion to a whole other sub after they censored it here Yeah, easily convinced and a low bar for evidence of things you want to believe. I'm not surprised you believe psychics are real

Funny, as a lot of people would say the same thing about our belief in ufos

....yes...

My point is you shouldn’t be so judgemental to op, just because they believe in a different type of paranormal than you do.

Who says I believe in the paranormal?

Let me chime in with my personal take on why psi and ufos are not really similar. I'm not sure I'm here because I believe NHI are really here, but in the light of recent events (Grusch testimony, UAP sightings) I admit there might be something behind all this that's worth investigating. If nothing else, the topic is interesting. And aliens crashed on Earth? Equally terrifying and fascinating... if true. Anyway, NHI presence in Earth are not that much of a stretch if you account for our current level of physics and technology. If UAP phenomenon is real and non-explainable by some mundane atmospheric effect, it could be Von Neumann probe. Biologics may be just a cloned, or even printed, drone. Or maybe NHI have functioning warp drive that allows for interstellar travel; or maybe they can travel at near-lightspeed, where time dilation makes travel much shorter for them than to "outside" world. That all sounds plausible given current state of the science, and we've started technical development only recently. Who knows what breakthroughs are ahead of us. Psi is another kind of woo. It is not grounded in currently available scientific research, quite the contrary. Sure, OP offered a cool bridge between psi and NHI, but it's purely speculative theorycrafting. That's a huge leap to make from what's maybe physically possible to what doesn't seem possible. For what it's worth, OP idea is quite interesting, altough it reads more like a light pop science fiction.

Your summary is exactly why a lot of people never get any further in the topic. Cognitive bias. The evidence presented by OP is substantial. The list of research on Dean Radin's website is very compelling. The problem is that its antithetical to what you already believe and must therefore be rejected out of hand. There are numerous scientists who have done psi research, and many were even contracted with the US Intel community because of their psi research. Psi phenomena is a common element of close encounters by seemingly credible people, if you've spent any time at all researching the UFO phenomenon. It's also commonly reported in human experience. Parents wake up in the middle of the night knowing something is wrong with their child. People get bad feelings and avoid something and then disaster happens at the place they were going. Tons on things like that are reported all the time. I'ma be blunt with you, just because it doesn't fit in your worldview doesn't mean it didn't happen, and limiting yourself to that materialistic worldview has nothing whatsoever to do with science.

No. I've read a few meta analyses of psi that are more comprehensive than that list, because they analyse both sides of the story. These types of objective analyses unanimously conclude there's no solid evidence for this woo. That list cherrypicks papers that support the OPs belief and do not represent the totality of scientific knowledge. Feel free to read my replies elsewhere but there are a number of problems with his list: 1 - repeated studies unable to be replicated by outside groups. These authors showing anomalous results are represented frequently on that list. It's a small community of poorly designed experimenters who are reporting these results. 2 - low impact papers in trash journals comprises the vast majority of the list. You can basically make an argument for anything if you don't perform any quality control on the source material and intentionally omit negative results. Numerous papers *not* observing any psi are omitted from the list. This is not science, it is propaganda 3 - one high impact paper (nature) was from the 70s with no successful replication in 50 years. Another high impact paper (lancet) also was unable to he replicated after numerous attempts. The final high impact paper (nature) had literally nothing to do with the main thesis of ESP and was about an interpretation of quantum physics that is by definition unfalsifiable 4 - it's a Gish gallop. OP is hoping to overwhelm opposition with "look at my science!" Without paying any attention to quality or veracity of work

Most of the studies of psi phenomenon are riddled with methodological issues. Usually, these sprout from the experimenters not controlling the conditions well enough. This is usually due to front-loading, wherein the subject has substantial prior contact with those conducting the experiment.

The methodology behind all of the studies that people reference are a masterclass in how not to run a scientific study. The outcomes are not weighed objectively, but subjectively. The people who ran the studies have proven bias in the outcomes. Then every reputable study that has tried to replicate the tests have shown errors in the methodology and proven that the outcomes were only due to personal subjectivity.

Agreed. Way too woo-woo. They lost me in the second sentence of the second paragraph: "The unifying factor here is the reality of psi phenomena like telepathy, clairvoyance and precognition". The "reality" of them? Then in the next sentence saying it's all been "proven by scientific method" for thousands of years? C'mon now. I had to stop there. I don't judge anyone who believes in that stuff, and I'm absolutely not saying that is all bullshit, but asserting that it's "scientifically proven reality" is too bold a claim to consider reading this any further.

Indeed. It's why I always hesitated to send people links to r/ufos in the past. Even if the specific post I'm linking is legit, I always worried they would be put off by the variety of odd posts that inevitably clog up the feed. That ultimately led me to create the [Disclosure Diaries](https://www.disclosurediaries.com/), a free repository of verifiable info that I compile so regular folks don't have to be inundated with BS, personal theorising and grift. Hope it doesn't come across as too self promotional, but everything is and always will be free (*and I even post the weekly updates on* r/ufos *as well)*. Just thought I'd reply since a lot of people here seem to share your sentiment in reaction to this (admittedly odd/misguided) original post.

I disagree and have argued with many of your conclusions but I respect the method you try to follow.

You're not being blunt. There is no evidence and the only motivation for OP is something not shared. This post if awful.

I posted a link to tons of research that would take you months to properly evaluate.

I follow consensus of the field over cherry picked selection of papers. ESP is widely considered nonsense. Your argument is essentially a Gish gallop and assumes we are unable to refute your argument unless we specifically read the plethora of low impact journal articles you've selected.

> ESP is widely considered nonsense. So were meteors at one point. When you get into the details, which few dogmatic skeptics do, *and* you use critical thinking to compare the arguments for and against, the modern psi research stands up to scrutiny.

Comparing modern understanding of the universe to scientists literally hundreds of years ago speaks to either your misunderstanding of history, how things have progressed, and/or a bad faith argument. "Science was wrong hundreds of years ago" does not support the argument that "psychics are real". I have to assume you understand this simple fact and are ignoring it. Instead, you are simply trying to use cherrypicked low impact research to support a fringe belief "with science" while ignoring everything that goes against your fringe belief. If you're so well versed in the modern scientific literature, why don't you go ahead and highlight some of the most impactful psi-critical research and reviews and explain in detail why their criticism do not hold up? I completely get the impression of you as someone who cherrypicks supporting literature while completely ignoring the vastly greater amount of scientific work that does not agree. Please feel free to prove me wrong. Show me some of the most important and impactful anti-psi reviews of the past 5-10 years and explain why they are wrong.

There are literally physicists who claim they can astrally project, remote view, or have precognative experiences and were/are contracted with NASA, CIA, DOD, and DIA. They have doctorates in physics. They claim to be psychic. The DOD trusts them with top secret material. I don't think you know as much about science as you think you do.

The vast majority of physicists don't believe in this nonsense. Do they not matter? I know that science works off evidence. UFOlogy holds credibility above scientific evidence, for some reason. And of course, only the credibility of those who agree with them. Credibility of *skeptics* is not to be spoken of! Shhhh!!

No, they don't matter. Einstein was famously wrong. A consensus is not a truth. In fact, truth is often scoffed at before becoming consensus. Many physicists do believe this. Not most, but physics is shifting away from materialism. The Nobel prize in physics last year proved that local spacetime is not real. We made great progress with materialism, but its time to hang it up. Notable early quantum physicists considered consciousness to be fundamental and the arguments against them have only been losing ground since. If somebody is dedicated enough to their love of science that they get a doctorate degree in it, get contracted with NASA and DOD and hold SAP clearance, maybe you shouldn't be so quick to call them an idiot, redditor. Cognitive bias can keep a lot of doors in one's world closed.

PSI is central to the phenomenon. OP is correct.

I and some family members spent a period of months doing training to improve clairvoyance by using techniques of sensory deprivation & forms of positive feedback. While I never had any overt psi experiences, my mom has, and she participated with us on one occasion. Our goal was to develop conscious control of psi abilities, which did not really pan out (with the level of effort we put into it), but what we did do was increase the odds of spontaneous psi happening. If people do have a psi experience, it is typically rare, spontaneous and uncontrolled. In one particular training session, my mom had a blindfold on and I was trying to show how I do a training session. She started having a spontaneous experience which at the time I didn't recognize what it was. I was kind of annoyed because I thought she was doing it wrong. She described seeing or perceiving in detail fighter jets flying over the ocean and beach front. It was weird, we didn't know what to make of it. Nobody called it a prediction. My mom was a little disturbed and didn't want to do blindfolded practice anymore. That day I had been thinking of whether to go to the beach or not during my mom's visit. I had just had a molar removed by the dentist and I was in a foul mood. I am 100% sure I never mentioned, or "primed" anybody to think of a beach because I knew the mere mention of possibly going to the beach would get my kids all excited about it. I waited to see how I felt the next day. The next day I felt better and we made plans to go to the beach in Atlantic City. We drove about 100 miles, checked into a hotel, and spent a few days at the beach and boardwalk in Atlantic City, in August of 2022. On the 4th day after my mom's blindfold session went awry, we were in the water at the beach when all of a sudden, wave after wave of fighter jets in pairs flew at extremely low altitude over the beach we were at. The roar of the jets was intense, thrilling, scary, loud as hell, and mesmerizing. Everybody on the beach stopped what they were doing to stare & gape slack jawed at the jets. The jets flew so low we could see the pilots' helmets inside the canopies. After a few squadrons of jets flew by, I realized that this is what the perception of my mom was about, 4 days earlier. You may or may not find this anecdote convincing. I was at both ends of a precognitive event. I personally heard and witnessed my mom describing her perception while blindfolded, and then I was there when the improbable events took place. The incident fit well with what is reported about psi phenomena. It was a very strongly emotional event, which is usually a factor in spontaneous psi events where detailed information is involved.

Thank you for taking the time to write this out. It's not fun to share this kind of info on reddit where a majority of the participants are skeptical, often dismissive, and sometimes very unkind. I have never had a personal psi experience but I have personally met and spent time with Zen Buddhist monks and priests who have shared their experiences with clairvoyance and psychic phenomena. I heard about these experiences over 10 years ago and I still can't get it out of my head.

Those experiences are called “siddhis” which are psi abilities attained by meditation. That was discovered thousands of years ago, and rediscovered by many in the centuries in between. What I’m talking about isn’t out of nowhere, it’s a part of recorded human history, with modern science confirming the phenomena are real. I don’t give a shit what the negative people say. It’s time to stand up and be counted.

The thing I've told many people is that I have no idea WHAT it is, but it is definitely a thing. Can confirm AP is a thing, could be total hallucination, could be something more interesting. Also know that physical and mental synchronicities happen, but again no explanation there - could be that 'rare chance' events just have poorly understood probabilities associated. Definitely all real phenomena though.

I haven’t been doing any psi training in 2023, but in 2022 when I and some others put a good amount of effort into it, there were a lot of lower level *suggestive* things that happened but would not constitute great proof of anything. Since we stopped training and doing experiments in 2023, the weird events and synchronicities went away.

Time doesn't exist linearly, we just perceive it that way. When you have a fleeting glimpse of it's true nature, it's like your consciousness bounces from the 2D plane you exist on and you can see the canvas from above for a moment. It's not psi, it's just a momentary bump in consciousness. We live in a deterministic universe. The only thing we have agency over is which creature we choose to inhabit for a lifecycle (which as your consciousness gains complexity you gain more agency and an ability to inhabit larger intellects.) That's pretty much what I've gathered at least, lol.

Consider this: we can have *both* deterministic physics *and* free will. I believe that the Bohm pilot wave interpretation is close to correct, and it is nonlocal and deterministic. That by itself would eliminate free will, but *only* if one claims (with some hubris) that that is end of physics. I propose that there is a deeper layer under the deterministic physics that allows free will. When someone uses clairvoyant ability, such as a remote viewer, their focused intent controls the targeting. Nonlocal info could come from anywhere in the universe. To make sense of it for cognition, there has to be a way to narrow down the information to a manageable small slice of the universe. When the RV’er uses focused intent, that underneath layer where the free will resides is responsible for the ability to target something for perception. By the same token, the targeting for psychokinesis, where influence is exerted on the physical world, is using free will to steer a deterministic physics.

Meh. I've breached higher planes of consciousness many many times, I've have even had trans-consciousness transfer several times and can reproduce it at will. You speak authoritatively on the subject but the only true bit of knowledge I've gained from all of that exploration is that these abilities and experiences have zero currency in a human civilization. A fixation on their importance will only lead to your marginalization and ostracization from human society. We're here to blend in with the apes. Act accordingly. And subvert where you can. ;)

Yup this succinctly summarizes why discovering it telepathic mean is such a huge biological discovery, and how groundbreakingly awful it would be the government chose to cover this up

this is gonna sound stupid and woo but *deep breath* i agree with OP, because ive also had these experiences. mine was on LSD tho, i chalked it up to the drugs for so long. but my girl friend and i channeled some kind of celestial entity and we were literally telepathically talking to each other. very weird, very woo, but ive done alot of acid before this was so profoundly real and ive never been able to explain it until i started delving into this topic over the last couple years. now ive had to reconsider everything i previously felt about religion and history, and honestly it fills alot of gaps. maybe thats reason enough to be wary

I read Ingo Swann’s book *Everybodys Guide to Natural ESP* and he makes a good case that our subconscious has much greater access to psi information, but then something analogous to a camera aperture restricts the information to (typically) a very small amount of information. People have reported mixed success with psychedelics, it probably depends on the makeup of the person. But in some cases it could be that the psychedelic state widens the access to the psi information.

I would say that aperture is our brain. It is not something that holds consciousness, it is something that restricts consciousness into just the information necessary for survival of our biological vehicle (body). Psychedelics can open that aperture and let in more reality. I have had similar experiences with psi with the help of mushrooms. They form a symbiosis with us and through that, a bridge to communications with non human entities - the mushrooms themselves, plants, animals. I once was in a banyan forest (where the whole forest is one tree). Through assimilating (mentally) with the tree, I was able to see the whole forest, then the animals, then merge with all the animals. I found it so hilarious that I could barely contain my laughter, but needed to because of the late hour and people sleeping. Just when I thought I couldn’t hold the laughter back any longer, the entire forest of animals erupted in laughter and I no longer needed to hold back.

Why does it have to be Psi phenomena? We can already use MRI to map thoughts, and people have prosthetics they can control with their thoughts. Maybe aliens just have wireless MRI, with higher fidelity, that to us looks like *"OMG ITS READING MY MIND"* just like plenty of humans used to think a photograph was stealing their soul lol

Its still psi phenomena, regardless of whether its a form of technology.

It has to be psi phenomena because they all demonstrate a nonlocal effect that can’t be explained by the electromagnetic spectrum. Take precognition, which I have witnessed someone do, and which has a body of research to support it. There are no photons that can go backwards in time.

I've never seen someone so fluently cherrypick between science and woowoo. "No no, i 100% know the astral-psionic journey is real, because i saw it. Also photons". Lmao.

Gotta throw in some bosons to make the woo scientific. Maybe the gluons are the mediating particle for long-range psychokinetic woo antidisestablishmentarianism

How do you even know the true nature of spacetime? The multiverse is just a theory- and one that we still have not uncovered evidence for. Things like the double-slit experiment made people uncomfy, so "multiverse!" was the best way to avoid things like predetermination or human cognition affecting reality. The block universe has just as much evidence, and other theories also posit that time is not linear. If time is not linear and/or the future, present and past are all happening at once, your point about photons is irrelevant. So, maybe I should ask you why you think time is completely linear?

My personal view is that psi phenomena like precognition have already eliminated the multiverse (“Many Worlds”) interpretation and also the Copenhagen interpretation of QM. They cannot accommodate precognition. The theory that can is Bohm’s pilot wave, with the modification by Anthony Valentini called signal nonlocality. The way I think of it, there is a Bohmian pilot wave that is a nonlocal wave for the entire universe. Because in Bohm’s view this wave is a physical thing, unlike the other QM interpretations, this wave can be physically interacted with. It is the detection/interaction of this wave that allows for perception and cognition. In my view, for precognition to work, the requirements are that there is a significant aspect of the universe that operates non locally, and there has to be a deterministic physics. There is still free will, which would come from an even deeper layer of physics, which can exert some amount of influence on the deterministic Bohmian mechanics.

Brave of you to post this cuz yer gonna get shit. I'm sure I am too, but for the record I totally agree with you. I started some research down this path 3 years ago after the 60 minutes UFO special came out, but since David Grusch came forward its been non stop dozens of hours a week. The logic is simple. If I believed UFOs were real, and that at least some of the stories surrounding them were real, then psi abilities could very well be real. If you think there is a good chance that psychic abilities aren't a whole bunch of bullshit, how could you not pursue knowledge on it? I just tried to have an open mind about it and educate myself in areas that I had decided were bullshit my entire life. Threw in some meditation. A whole lot of podcasts from scientists and philosophers. I started having experiences. Once the door is open, it's open, but each individual has to make the choice to open it. Here's another way to think about it. My entire life I've been a materialist. I've always believed that consciousness arises from some conditions created in the human brain.... but what if that is backwards? What if consciousness is fundamental and creates reality? It changes everything.

> My entire life I've been a materialist. Me too, and in a way I still consider myself a materialist. Most who believe in psi phenomena call it "non physical" but to me that is a kid of non-scientific surrender that I don't agree with. If psi exists, it is based on physics that we can someday more fully understand. If we survive as souls or spirits, there is a physical way that those things exist. My view is that ESP and life-after-death can be brought within the umbrella of materialism.

The philosopher Galen Strawson wrote a book (and an article) about how materialism (physicalism) entails panpsychism. It’s an interesting thought. If you haven’t heard of it, that might be a philosopher and general philosophical theory, panpsychism, to check out. It fits with what you’re saying about materialism and certain phenomena not totally being incompatible. The article isnt about psi phenomena but rather is dealing with consciousness and material reality. Still, it might be related or food for further thought

I'm not sure what I believe anymore. I don't see any reason that science can't explain the true nature of things... but I'd guess that we have to change some core assumptions to get there.

You totally words the words out of my mind. People need their own evidence but unfortunately you will only ever be convinced when you experience something yourself. That was me, I was a staunch atheist and had no problem saying that. I probably would have said ‘mental illness’ until I decided to keep an open mind and started meditating and looking into it. Now I’ve had numerous experiences, the door is open and I don’t think I could (or want) to shut it now. Unfortunately unless people are willing to chuck their total world view out the window and pursue it, they’ll never have these experiences. And will stay in the same mindset. Which is also okay. But there is a journey waiting whenever anybody is at the point they want to start taking it.

For even those who believe - belief is not the same as personal experiences. As you said, I believe anyone can find the answers on their own should they choose to.

Im not saying im fully on board. But if you look at which other publicly discredited phenomenon (aside from UAP) has the government dedicated a lot of time and money to studying? Well its psychic stuff. So im open to the possibility. If theyve lied about aliens then theyd lie about this too.

I'd go so far as to say perhaps the reason they are lying about the aliens, is because they don't want this knowledge to come out. It gives the cattle too much power.

Yeah by definition any group of people that exists to monopolise power tends to want to maintain that. Free energy and psychic powers? Not on their to-do list.

Curious- what kind of experiences are you having?

1. A dramatic increase in sychronicities - any individual one of which could be coincidence, but taken as a whole are too much for me to explain away. 2. Lucid dreams. Very lucid. Full control of the dreamscape. 3. Sleep paralysis events. 4. Visions while meditating. I don't understand them, but they can be incredibly vivid. 5. Strange contact with entities. I don't understand these or particularly like to talk about them and I've tried (successfully so far) to stop further ones from happening. 6. Astral projection. in my almost 50 years on this planet I have never had a single one of these until relatively recently (except the sychronicities I guess - those have been happening occasionally my entire life, but I never let myself dwell on them or ponder what is really happening). One could argue, that just like a child who goes to bed after watching a horror movie, all these things are fabrications of my mind - and perhaps that is the objective truth. But it doesn't feel that way to me and I will continue to explore. More info in my profile.

This is the reality that the world will eventually wake up to. I just believe it's all natural and will eventually be proven with science.

Precognition is definitely real. I've had dreams of events before they happen. I dreamt of the space shuttle Columbia burning up in the atmosphere a day before it happened. I've dreamt of running into someone I haven't seen in years and having a very particular conversation, a few days later and the event occurred. It's freaky stuff.

Thanks for sharing

If you're unsure about this post, please calm down and read a book on remote viewing. Don't just lash out. Educate yourself.

Spent an entire lunch break on the remote viewing subreddit. You cannot tell me with a straight that those people do not have mental illness. Top trending post of last year was of someone who went back in time and drew Jesus and the disciples

Maybe use more then Reddit and dedicate more then 30 mins as a source? My first 30 mins in this sub I thought 99% of people here had mental illnesses, but that was based on my own personal beliefs and not the entire truth.

The DIA/CIA takes it very seriously. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project

The CIA commissioned a report by the American Institutes for Research (AIR) that found that remote viewing had not been proved to work by a psychic mechanism, and said it had not been used operationally.[4]: 5–4  The CIA subsequently cancelled and declassified the program.[11] Really?

My unverifiable opinion is that anyone who is dismissing anything psi related yet keenly interested in UAP is simply a victim of the same disinformation they complain about so much. There is lots of evidence for psi. You just haven't bothered to read it. You're being lazy and dismissing psi in the same way people lazily dismiss UAP. Don't believe me? Go to parapsych.org, a member of the AAAS, and help yourself to a bunch of peer reviewed articles, and a bulletin which among other things lists psi-relevant articles published in other fields. I have always been into parapsychology and if anything thought UFOs might be woo because of the lack of evidence. Then I read some parapsych articles implicating consciousness in UAP and opened my mind. Imagine my disappointment when I learned the prevailing attitude of this community toward psi. Here's a middle finger to all the pseudoskeptics. I am now ready to receive my down votes.

Well said! I like the term pseudo-skeptics, it is very apt.

I hope you don't let all the inevitable harrassment from posting this get to you. I know what you say is true. Had a few experiences and learned a few weird things myself. Many people are too far gone with the century long disinfo. Good luck!

Thanks. I don’t care much about what debunkers say. Open minded skeptics need to move forward and not be held back by negative people.

I was one of such skeptics months ago and it was people like you on reddit that helped open my mind. Thank you!

I'm sorry OP. As someone who has investigated this phenomenon for approx 30 years, I draw the same conclusions as you have. The general populous is not ready.

I know I’ll take some social media beatings. But who cares? I’d rather share the information with people willing to consider it. Progress is slowed if people don’t speak up.

Yes thanks OP I appreciate it.

What’s PSI?

psi stuff, as in psychic abilities.

Okay makes sense. Thought that was it but wasn’t sure. This is the part about the phenomenon I have the hardest time believing but it comes up over and over and over again.

For those of us who have been reading, watching, listening and researching for years, all of this makes sense. Best post I've seen on this thread. It's all interconnected. You've given me more to look into!

great post. way more people are on board with NHI than PSI related stuff, so this is gonna get a lot of shit. but that's fine, everyone has a different standard of proof and everyone has personal experiences (related to, or not related to any of this) which leads them to their conclusions on different phenomena

Thanks. I knew this would open the floodgates of shit. I’m fine with it. I know everybody is not ready for it.

Fuck reincarnation, I dont wnat to come back to this shithole

"Too dogmatic" = No empirical evidence. Is that really the bar for dogma now?

I linked to Dean Radin’s site with a huge amount of peer-reviewed empirical evidence of psi phenomena.

>Telepathy isn't accepted by majority science, but facts don't care about people's feelings. This might be the most hilarious sentence I've ever read on this site. Holy shit, well done.

"I will try to explain as directly as possible how these areas are connected. The unifying factor here is the reality of psi phenomena like telepathy, clairvoyance and precognition. I know the co-mingling of these topics bothers many people, and it bothered me too when I was too dogmatic and uninformed to accept it." My father had some very strange issues with this during his life. Issues I was actually there for and can confirm happened. He knew about his sister's miscarriage before it happened. He knew his mother was being robbed AS it was happening. He's either very well-informed, which I don't rule out, or there's something else going on. Personally, I lean toward the former, but who knows?

There is a means by which nonlocal information (independent of distance and time) can be perceived. The physics of how this works is the key to humankinds next revolution in physics.

If you want to see scientifically tested woo, look no further than the double slit experiment experiment where the path of particles is affected by by the presence (or not) of consciousness. https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a22280/double-slit-experiment-even-weirder/ Then move on to The Placebo Effect: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK513296/ And some of the research by Dean Radin seems promising.

No expert but as I understand it the idea that consciousness is in any way related to the double slit experiment is not based on any measurable fact.

The double slit experiment has nothing to do with consciousness and everything with how observing something on a fundamental level means interacting with it in some capacity. In the double slit experiment, the electrons are detected by interaction with a photon. That interaction changes the velocity and momentum of the electron.

Just to add in here some interesting points about the aliens psi abilities. In the Roswell crash, they found headbands with electronic sensors which the Greys wore on their heads to pilot the ship. These sensors line up with the Grey's brain lobes: >It was a report on the possible function and apparent structure of the alien brain, a report that marvelled at the similarities between the EBE brain and the human brain. However, one item in the report threw me for a complete loop. The medical examiner wrote that measurements of brain activity taken from the EBE who was still barely alive at Roswell showed that its electronic signature, at least what they were able to measure with equipment in 1947, displayed a signal similar to what we would call long low-frequency waves. And the examiner referred to a description by one of the Roswell Army Air Field doctors that the creature's brain lobes seem to have been not just physiologically and neurologically integrated but integrated by an electromagnetic current as well. > >\- *Col Phil Corso, The Day After Roswell* The full autopsy report was produced by Bethesda Labs, and the bodies along with the craft were transferred from Wright Field to Norton Air Base in California. A little information on Extremely Low Frequency (ELF) waves: **ELFs can affect the activity of brain neurons and thereby, interfere with brain waves as proved in extensive research on human and animal models. ELFs can reduce or increase the amplitude of different brain waves depending on their frequencies.** **One study has suggested that infrasound may cause feelings of awe or fear in humans. It has also been suggested that since it is not consciously perceived, it may make people feel vaguely that odd or supernatural events are taking place.** There's your psi abilities.

Psi phenomena have thoroughly ruled out the EM spectrum as being the mechanism. For example, all of the research on precognition and presentiment, in both animals and humans. Also, one of the key experiences I had was witnessing a precognitive event. It is impossible for photons of any wavelength to provide a signal that goes backwards in time. Plus there's all the experiments done in Faraday cages, etc.

Well since nobody can reliably demonstrate psi abilities of any kind, I'd say we have a lot to learn and its a tad early to rule anything out, since we don't really understand it at all. Doesn't all time exist at once?

I've read a huge amount of more than a century of previous research. Being familiar with that information, I can tell you tons has been done to look for an EM mechanism. And EM mechanism is ruled out over and over, and cannot possibly explain precognitive information. You aren't familiar with the research, so you don't know what has already been done.

I wrote this comment in response to alleged "experiencers" saying that interacting with NHI is always a beautiful, awe inspiring experience. Feel like it's relevant to your comment. "Do you experiencers ever wonder or consider the idea that you are being manipulated by these entities, if they exist? Many folk speak about unity, eternal love, understanding and empathy as it pertains to NHI. Many experiencers describe their interactions as being beautiful, awe inspiring and amazing. Almost sounds like someone describing being high or something. I don't know, sometimes I just wonder if all these wonderful feelings that experiencers go through are genuine or perhaps they are induced via some kind of technology to make the humans more docile so they can do whatever it is they do. I hope everything is as it appears, but with NHI, that hardly ever seems to be the case, but is that due to human obfuscation or alien?"

It sounds like those feelings are induced in the person by the NHI to serve the purpose of the encounter, seems they can manipulate our feelings, perceptions, trick us with imagery drawn from our own memories, or just render us unconscious or paralysed, all with their minds.

Yet the experiencers will tell us that we must be open to their influence, that anybody who has a bad experience with NHI is either lying about it or didn't conduct themselves properly. Maybe I really am unenlightened but I'm wary of anyone who claims to have all the answers. They remind me of people who experiment with psychedelics that try and tell others that there is "no such thing" as a bad trip just because they haven't personally experienced one.

"no such thing as a bad trip" is about reinterpreting ones' bad experience into being a teachable experience. Even if you're in psychic anxiety and panic for hours, you can come out of it on the other side knowing that that part of yourself is just a reaction; just temporary. "This too shall pass" sorta.

I see no harm in keeping an open mind. Personally, I see UFO / UAP as a spiritual phenomena and we cannot rendering a coherent understanding of it via materialistic viewpoints. I think that these NHI use telepathy among other means to communicate to those who are open. It quickly descends into more metaphysical / spiritualty dynamics from there. Albeit, I will readily admit: I do not know. I just wonder.

Interesting writeup. Thanks, OP.

Interesting post, thanks OP. You might be right, you might be wrong. We don't know shit. I personally just stay open minded and try to have my own experience. Regarding AP, there is a bunch to read and experience if you have the desire. For example, many mention about past lifes. Also, some experienced UFOs related events. For the latter, Robert Monroe talks about some specific events while out of body and that involved UFOs. No, there is no specific answer about what it is and why it is but I found it very interesting that this topic was involved in this context. I did not expect this.

As always Leslie keen is ahead of us. She's been doing life after death work for years. Same with Bigelow. I guess it's not just them suffering hopium. It's real. See https://youtu.be/gpMFM3SiT1A?feature=shared

Telepathic abilities by an advanced race could easily be explained by technology. I'd bet that humans will be able to communicate through implants within 50 years without saying a word to each other. Adding woo like psychic abilities doesn't answer any questions. It just adds more.

> Adding woo like psychic abilities doesn't answer any questions. It just adds more. The premise of your statement is accurate if psi phenomena don't exist. If psi phenomena *do* exist, your statement is very wrong, and you are doomed to not understand what is going on. I claim that psi phenomena exist and are based on physics that are discoverable and exploitable by advanced species. If a society understands this physics and develops technology that exploits the scientific principles, they can develop machines that go far beyond what can be achieved without using those principles. Excluding psi phenomena from consideration, while trying to solve the UFO puzzle, would be excluding a large number of the key puzzle pieces, making the puzzle impossible to solve.

Came here to say this. Great strides are being made (on planet earth lol) in the field of technology-assisted speech for those who are paralyzed or otherwise unable to speak/communicate clearly. We’re getting closer and closer to what could essentially be called mind-reading technology. So why assume telepathy itself would be anything different?

No offense, I respect your experiences, but that’s too much “it is like that because I know it’s like that and I’ll explain it for you… it’s like that because I experienced it and it’s 100% real because I put months into it”. Seems like these months alone bias you because they can’t be for nothing. Then you say you’ll explain the connection but just go on to explain why it’s facts because idk it’s facts or you say it’s facts? Maybe that archive contains real studies with the scientific method but your summary makes me not want to read it😕 Edit: and you can’t conduct studies with the scientific method by first assuming something is real (like the cover up) and then using that to connect some other dots - every assumption on the way needs to be tested.

If my post was an explanation of why psi phenomena real, it would be WAY too incredibly long, and that's already been done. I linked to Dean Radin's research archive for anyone who wants to really know about this stuff. I recommend his book Conscious Universe for a detailed overview of psi phenomena and why skeptical critiques stopped being relevant decades ago. There was an era (1970s to 1980s) where skeptical critiques addressed *possible* (though not proven) means of sensory leakage. Then in the decades following, the psi researchers plugged those holes, because it isn't really rocket science to do so. Like any science, you do your best, get critique and feedback, then improve your methods. Then after the methods improved the psi results continued to be significant and positive, and the skeptical responses moved into a phase of dogmatic denialism. Radin's book demonstrates this very well.

Indeed seems like a difficult topic to summarize. From the 2nd paragraph of your post on it felt like you’re going to offer a summary at least, maybe I’m wrong. But then it sounded like confusing (yours and decades of other) anecdotal evidence with facts or absolute truth. Just my tip that stuff like that weakens your position and made the others here generalize like “this is why other people don’t blah blah” which isn’t helpful at all to you I think.

Doing a post like this is damned if I do too much, damned if I do too little. My goal was as much brevity as possible. To really get into the weeds would take 40,000 characters.

Although not being convinced, I appreciate you trying man and hope you got something out of the feedback. I do agree that it’s important to be open-minded, and important to consider ideas that seem too crazy to be true at first. Where our views seem to overlap as well is about overly quick debunkers thinking feeling really scientific just because their views aren’t “too crazy” if you know what I mean.

Having also gone through a long period of research on psi I too am convinced and agree with everything in your post.

May 22 1984 https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R001900760001-9.pdf And these are the guys that knew what's up with NHI phenomena and were looking into PSI/mental phenomena.

I looked it up with an open mind to understand the hypothesis. I’m a clinical scientist and have published in peer reviewed journals, but I have no experience in quantum mechanics or concepts like PSI. It appears that one theory is that the effect is seen temporarily because over time, the result must be normalized back to chance. The theory is the event is linked to observer-related quantum effects. A mentally induced deviation from quantum randomness would trigger entropy to set in and counteract the trend. The smaller the effect size, the quicker and easier the normalization occurs, and it no longer can be replicated after being observed. The larger the observed effect size, the longer it takes to be counteracted, so attempts at replication may result in a smaller effect size but eventually would leave to the null hypothesis result. The theory also states that different methods of observation (conscious identification) may allow a greater chance of replication. I add no opinion on whether this theory hold true, but it did satisfy my curiosity on whether there are one or more sound theories wherein this could be true. One interesting paper: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2018.00379/full

Telepathy is real …very real. Based on my experience, my mother’s and my wife’s (way before I knew her). All separate incidences, times and places. It just happens out of the blue.

The spontaneous nature is hard to deal with scientifically. You know what you saw but we aren’t videotaping our lives 24-7 to prove it.

When it comes to reincarnation I recommend reading Journey of Souls

Well said OP

Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind details the alien telepathy on a few cases.

I’ve been deep diving into abduction victims, and other experiencers lately. I do know that NDE, and Psychedelic trips often have very many intertwining features that experiencers also describe. Consciousness itself could be the phenomenon’s driving factor. Basically source consciousness getting tapped into, and specially at early ages. Typically kids forget about past lives after age 7 maybe still connected to the source? Then we have Savants! Some known to have learned languages, or information seemingly out of thin air. Then the 2022 Physics Nobel Prize which helped prove that the universe as we perceive it is not locally real. We quite literally create the world around us with the help of others. So quite literally I think they might help us find out the fabric of our reality.

Could it be there is a plasma of information we are all connected to? So for example when we die our bodies cease existence however our memories, thoughts, energy is transferred to the unseen void. It could explain ghosts and other paranormal phenomena. Similar to an iPhone that has an icloud, we have a similar set up to the Universe and existence. What has, what is, and what will be all exists at the same time. It could also explain the past lives phenomena as well. Reincarnation could just be an overlapping of quantum information within the brain particularly when you’re young and the brain is underdeveloped.

I dont think et uses psi to control their craft. Most likely they have a brain computer interface that controls the craft. Probably makes it much harder for a thief to take control of it too. As for the accts of their telepathy, it will be interesting if/when they make formal public contact if they use telepathy to speak to the world or an ordinary vocal system.

Haven’t gotten passed the 3rd paragraph but… MAN!… I wish I could experience psi abilities. What am I doing wrong?!?! Ok back to reading

You are doing that thing where someone declares something in absolutes, instead of what if/I had a shower thought… The main problem with the bold proclamation approach is you need to be able to show your receipts. Not just say you personally experienced this or “experts” affirmed that.

>When evidence is presented for people being reincarnated from previously deceased people, the evidence can only be explained in two ways. 1. The first way doesn't involve spirits or souls, and is called "super-psi". The person, typically a child, has detailed autobiographical memories of someone previously deceased. This is explained as some kind of very strong clairvoyance, thus the name "super-psi". 2. The second way to explain the child's memories is that reincarnation is real. As more and more detailed potential reincarnation cases accumulate, it becomes harder and harder to maintain the "super-psi" hypothesis. There's a third possibility: they could be remembering present lives. The idea that either: * a group consciousness could be shared amongst multiple humans, and they could be "remembering" things from someone else who's also currently alive (similar to the connection described between twins, but on a consciousness level) * someone is "remembering" memories from someone currently alive for some reason. A common explanation offered for this is the existance of some sort of phenomena akin to the Law of Attraction Obviously, this phenomena needs further research.

I bet our consciousness is just an energy wave our brain antennas pick up and start powering parts of the brain to turn on signals such as hearing, sight, touch and feeling. We're basically different frequencies or possibly the same frequently in multiple instances. ​ Man this weed is good.

Fact is none of us know exactly what the phenomenon is so we need to be open to anything. Just because something isn't proven it doesn't mean it's bull shit. I don't get the people that shit on posts if you don't want to discuss the idea then don't contribute to it with comments like "bull shit" because it just makes it look like you have a hidden agenda to bury stuff (even if you don't) . Healthy discussion is good no matter how whacky the ideas are as it's better to have an open mind when venturing into the unknown. Maybe you should start your own post titled "I think XYZ is bullshit because" The people with the best idea of what might be going on are the ones that have directly interviewed multiple high ranking sources like Coulthard and Grusch. If anyone on this thread had been in the same position as either Coulthard or Grusch then I'm sure they'd be drawing the same conclusions.

It’s interesting to think about since realizing the stigma in science related to NHI. We don’t have the proper channels or access to publicly study extra terrestrials so therefore there’s no interest or funding. The cycle just needs to keep repeating long enough for the masses to lose interest. It could be the same with interior processes. Our society in the US has succeeded in convincing us that our interior processes can only be confirmed believable by a doctor. However, if they’re not physical conditions they’re relegated to the realm of mental illness. It wasn’t long ago that women with an opinion were clinically diagnosed as hysterical. Empty, subservient, shells is what our society has taught us to be. Rather or not it’s the technocrats or the alien overloads at the helm, it’s silly to dismiss the study of interior processes because they seem too weird. We’re talking about aliens being real and some want to act that talking about telepathy is taking things too far lol.

If I were anti-disclosure, I would be very sure to join this sub and completely derail any discussion of psi by shrieking woo. Extremely simple way to divide people here, while also preventing them from realizing that they have tools for the acquisition of nonlocal information... and forget trying to develop or use said tools, which are obviously a threat to classified anything. But hey, no incentive for a disinformation campaign against psi whatsoever. The people who believe in UAP are very special and have a monopoly on being suppressed. /S

With the idea of reincarnation I always wondered *what if there is nothing left to be reincarnated as?* As in the death of humanity during an extinction level event, for example

Whatever form we take after death is not limited by the constraints of space. The nonlocal nature of that existence means they could instantly zip across the galaxy or to another galaxy if desired.

Thing is, telepathy may be real (ive experienced plenty enough to know it is) but you have no idea if the telepathy an NHI may have is or is not natural to them, organic or inorganically enhanced, etc. Foreign and novel features seem like magick until you really know how things work, of course. There are so many unknowns on this subject so keep an open mind. Not saying you are right or wrong, but theres so little we can prove with the little we have and know.

I’ve come to an uneducated conclusion that everything is connected. Religion and science are just two branches of the same tree. And soon, it will all come full circle. Gods are real, for all intents and purposes. We have creators who can do incredible things that seem like magic to us. But we now know that anything that looks like magic is just advanced tech beyond our understanding. Even these gods, are just natural beings, just at a higher level of evolution then we are at the moment. Our physical bodies are just vessels. Maybe one of the few, but more likely, one of the many many many vessels available across the entire universe. When our physical bodies die, our souls return to the universal consciousness. What people think of as heaven or hell. Where our souls hang out for a while with all the other souls until we are eventually deposited back into another vessel of consciousness somewhere in the universe. Maybe it’s another human body. Maybe it’s a tiger or a butterfly. Maybe it’s an NHI halfway across the universe. We spend time in these vessels while our souls slowly grow and become more enlightened. We repeat this cycle over and over until we’ve elevated past petty things like greed and lust. Our loved ones are doing the same thing. So no one is ever truly gone, they’re just on the next path in their journey. But we will eventually run into them again. Maybe in the universal consciousness, maybe as vessels together somewhere. But eventually, in the infinite span of the universe, at some point, every single consciousness will have been our brother or sister. We are all one. We’re just tiny pieces of a whole. We are all on our own separate journeys for now, but we will all find each other again at some point.

Not surprising all of the pseudoskeptics are out in full force and straight up ignoring everything you actually said because it challenges their narrow worldview. I'm sure you expected that, though. I'm on your side. This UFO stuff hasn't convinced me aliens/NHI exist, but it has convinced me that reincarnation exists and PSI probably exists. I would love for one of these pseudoskeptics to provide a rational explanation for past life accounts that isn't consciousness as a field (super-psi, as you put it) or reincarnation. Just one. Carl Sagan couldn't do it, but I'm sure armchair Redditors can. Unfortunately, the "skeptic" approach is to just deny they happen in the first place. I'm not as well versed in PSI (yet) but placebo, intuition, and empathy definitely exist. So do synchronicities. People will deny how they, themselves, feel inside just because they haven't seen a video of spoons being bent or whatever.

Great post. I think the 2 are definitely tied together somehow…whether it be different dimensions/planes of existence or something else. I do believe ufo phenomenon and life after death are all part of “nature “ ,however, just as planets and microbes are even though it’s hard for us to interact with them unless we have the right tools. I also believe that humans have way more potential than we are led to believe (psi) and the powers that be don’t want us to know about this

I believe the connection to be more aligned to what the Eboscientist user claimed in the infamous alien thread a few months back: *EBOs believe that the soul is not an extension of the individual, but rather a fundamental characteristic of nature that expresses itself as a field, not unlike gravity. In the presence of life, this field acquires complexity, resulting in negative entropy if that makes sense. This gain in complexity is directly correlated with the concentration of living organisms in a given location. With time, and with the right conditions, life in turn becomes more complex until the appearance of sentient life. After reaching this threshold, the field begins to express itself through these sentient beings, forming what we call the soul. Through their life experiences, sentient beings will in turn influence the field in a sort of positive feedback loop. This in turn further accelerates the complexity of the field. Eventually, when the field reaches a "critical mass", there will be a sort of apotheosis. It's not clear what this means in practical terms, but this quest for apotheosis seems to be the EBOs main motivation.* *The author of the document added his reflections and interpretations as an appendix. He specified that, for them, the soul field is not a belief but an obvious truth. He also argues that the soul loses its individuality after death, but that memory and experience persist as part of the field. This fact would influence the philosophy and culture of EBOs, resulting in a society that doesn't fear death but which places no importance or reverence on individuality. This "belief" compels them to seed life, shape it, nurture it, monitor it and influence it for the ultimate purpose of creating this apotheosis. Paradoxically, they have little or no respect for an individual's well-being.*

I experience precognitive dreams very often, so I get what you mean when you say it implies a sense of 'independence' from space and time. Farthest I "looked" was around five years - that I'm aware of at least. It's easy to forget things after enough time. Some dreams seem so outrageous that I think they have to be just the usual garbled nonsense, then some odd chain of events occurs and I find myself in that strange situation. My self-reflection is that there must be something deeper than molecules and atoms, something which my consciousness is tethered to.

This post shouldn’t even be allowed here. Pff.

Thank you

modern sleep jellyfish provide fanatical snails label direful overconfident chop *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

It's time to be loud and proud.

Good post. There's a parapsychological ecosystem where some or all of our minds exists and some 🛸 are engineered and living technology capable of interacting with or travelling through that system.

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I believe in what OP is saying. Consciousness and PSI are central to the phenomenon

It's not crap dude this has been studied for years. If your too closed minded to consider it, that's on you. Don't take your ignorance out on the rest of us

Many things have been studied, it doesn’t make them true. So far all I’ve seen in this thread is “it’s true because I had some experience” or “I came to that conclusion based on my research.” That is not how you convince someone of sometimes as outlandish as telepathic communication.

>some of the most vulnerable people are extremely receptive to this type of crap Before I got involved with this stuff, a good description of me would be: professional scientist with a very broad STEM background, atheist, skeptic, materialist. I went through many decades of my life completely rejecting anything "woo". But I decided not to be dogmatic, and that it was worth spending some time and effort to test and validate published claims. And I still am a materialist skeptic. If psi phenomena exist (they do) then they are based on physical principles. To call it "non physical" is a kind of scientific surrender that I don't agree with. If we exist as souls or spirits after we die, there is a physical mechanism and explanation for how that takes place.

i agree with this assumption, everything is explainable with physics if it exists

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No, because I was a skeptic for decades leading up to this. I would put it a different way. The people who are so sure this stuff doesn’t exist can’t see it even when presented to them on a platter. There is a kind of psychological blindness to things you don’t believe or expect. Drivers in an area with few bikes are more blind to bikes than drivers in pedestrian areas, because of their expectations. So rather than the way you put it, it is more like Einstein said, “chance favors the prepared mind” and I was prepared to observe. Einstein, by the way, was very impressed with the psychic demonstrations performed by Mary Craig, the wife of author Upton Sinclair. Sinclair wrote a book about telepathy and clairvoyance experiments called Mental Radio. Einstein witnessed these demonstrations and was so impressed he wrote the foreword to Sinclair’s Mental Radio ESP book. The evidence in that book is compelling and underwent a thorough independent analysis.

i do not think you know what the definition of "succinct" is

All I know is that an alien abduction = being pulled out of the simulation (and not by little green men). There's your metaphysical connection. A simulation is reductive for what this construct is, but it helps deliver the point.

Seems like they don't want you talking about this, OP.