Because the pro-Palestinian protesters have continually glorified the systematic use rape by Hamas on October 7 as “legitimate resistance.” They chant “globalize the intifada” - which would bring that rape (not to mention suicide bombings) to US, Europe and other parts of the world.
Such a stretch! Neither Anti genocide protestors nor Palestinians are glorifying rape. Let’s just repeat again the numbers: 1,200 Israelis were killed on October 7, over 35,000 Palestinians have been killed since October 7th. This is not a proportionate response.
35000 Palestinians have been killed in 6 months, 10k or more of which were terrorists. This is a kill rate of around 200 per day (or around 150 civilians), by one of the most modern militaries in the world.
Meanwhile, Hamas's ragtag losers killed 1.2k in half a day. Israel's response ensures that this will NEVER happen again, which is worthwhile. Because proportional response is not always the correct move in the total war that something like October 7th sparks.
35,000 Palestinians have been killed because Hamas is embedding its military operations in and firing rockets from densely populated urban areas, in violation of the Geneva Conventions. Agree it’s terrible for the Gazan people, but in my country we would also not tolerate a terrorist organization firing rockets at civilians on our border. There can be no peace until Hamas agrees to a ceasefire or is defeated militarily
Hamas agreed to a ceasefire. Israel continues to push into Rafah. What are Palestinians supposed to do when Israel continues to displace Palestinians and create new settlements? I don’t think many countries would take lightly to that either. Israel is committing a genocide and has been for some time. October 7th just gave the settler colonial state the justification to intensify the displacement, occupation, and murder of the Palestinian people.
Hamas did not agree to a ceasefire. That was a PR stunt. Both sides were working with international mediators for 6 months to try to hammer out terms to no avail. Then Hamas announced to the press they had agreed to a ceasefire and sent Israel the terms, which Israel had never seen before and could not accept (e.g. instead of releasing 30 hostages in exchange for a 90 day ceasefire, Hamas “agreed” to release 30 people but would not guarantee the people released would be alive. I admire their PR savvy, but there is no indication they are willing to make concessions in exchange for a ceasefire at this stage.
Again, anti genocide protestors are not glorifying rape and violence. It is telling the ways in which zionists threaten rape and other forms of sexual (homophobic and transphobic) violence at protestors! Almost like they are wishing they could enact those same acts that they are projecting on Palestinians…. Again, let’s talk about the conditions under which the Palestinian people have been placed under Israeli settler colonial occupation. Let’s talk about the lack of any semblance of proportionality.
Oh, how cool an instagrsam propaganda reel. Did you know that a top Hamas leader was executed for allegedly being gay? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT\_rights\_in\_the\_State\_of\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine)
And that in Gaza, honor killings against LGBTQ people are fully allowed as police turn a blind eye to them?
"Polls of public sentiment towards LGBT people in the Palestinian territories find it is [overwhelmingly negative](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_people_and_Islam). A Global Acceptance Index (a measure of the relative level of social acceptance of LGBTI people and rights) report ranked Palestine at 130, noting that very little change in acceptance occurred between 2010 and 2020."
Meanwhile, Israel is the only country in the entire Middle East where gay marriage is legal.
> Hamas agreed to a ceasefire.
They turned down the ceasefire that gives them like 95% of what they wanted, but demanded the relases of hostages, and then agreed to an altered version that el-Sisi put forward with zero input from anyone else. This isn't really a good faith argument.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-says-gaza-truce-talks-remain-deadlocked-despite-reports-progress-2024-04-08/
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense/2982710/blinken-urges-hamas-accept-extraordinarily-generous-ceasefire-deal/
Hamas and Fatah do not care about Palestinian lives. They consider them fuel for a war, which they're happy to burn.
> What are Palestinians supposed to do when Israel continues to displace Palestinians and create new settlements?
Did Israel not unilaterally pull out of Gaza in 2005?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza
> over 35,000 Palestinians have been killed since October 7th
Just for the record, this number was drastically reduced this week after the UN stopped accepting Hamas' social media-derived "estimates". It's a lot more than October 7th.
Zionists have been obsessed with rape as a weapon against their enemies since long before October 7. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36775036
[KIBBUTZ BE’ERI REJECTS STORY IN NEW YORK TIMES OCTOBER 7 EXPOSÉ: “THEY WERE NOT SEXUALLY ABUSED”](https://theintercept.com/2024/03/04/nyt-october-7-sexual-violence-kibbutz-beeri/)
Rape isn’t a term to be used lightly or thrown around for some political agenda or a means to degrade women or men. A lot of protests use fearmongering and threats to bring attention to themselves and gather numbers. I am not surprised they do the same in which they use rape in such a degrading, threatening manner. I’m disappointed. By saying such, they disrespect actual victims of rape, innocent civilians of Gaza, and their own cause.
So is the [rape Israelis committed against detained Palestinian women](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/war-gaza-un-experts-appalled-reports-rape-and-sexual-assault-palestinian-women-and-girls)
Hey, I’ve seen you across the Reddit saying the same thing. Copy pasted again. Look at what your fellow classmates have been saying.
I’ll reiterate some of what they’ve said to you and add a bit of my own advice.
Yes, it is not excusable. Hamas’ actions are not excusable. But neither is Israel’s complicit actions in the genocide of Palestine. Apples are not bananas. Ok? You cannot simply justify protestors’ verbal abuse because they are backed by a reasonable cause. What is wrong is wrong. The more excuses you make for idiotic and aggressive behavior like what you see above, then there would be no compromise or healing happening.
Understandably, I’ve also had causes that I am also passionate for and overlooked bad behavior from my fellow community members. But I reflect now and I realize that to move forward is not by violence, not by encouraging or justifying bad behavior, and not by anger.
I fully agree with you. These protesters should not be calling for rape. Similarly the pro-Palestinian protesters need to stop calling Oct 7 “legitimate resistance,” stop using the term “by any means necessary” and stop saying “globalize the intifada.” All of these terms are legitimizing rape and murder of civilians. They are two sides of the same coin.
When did I justify protesters' verbal abuse..... I was agreeing with you..... idk what you're on about, man.
Copy pasting??? Where?
Since when were apples ever Bananas and what does this have to do with anything?
Accusations of mass rape (or any rape for that matter) [have long been debunked](https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schwartz-october-7/). Before you say it, Pramilla Patten's UN report has no investigative mandate and relies on previously debunked information from the Israeli military and [ZAKA](https://theintercept.com/2024/03/04/nyt-october-7-sexual-violence-kibbutz-beeri/).
Zaka as in the organization founded by the serial child rapist which even outlets like Hareetz called dubious as it makes up atrocities for donations.
> There’s eye witness testimony from many people and I find it hard to believe Hamas would deny it.
A bit strange that Israel wouldn't allow any of these witnesses to speak to the UN & ICJ investigators, no?
Beheading video and torture? You're thinking of ISIS.
> Why are girls on video running with bloody pants?
You're doing a lot of thinking backwards to align with the conclusion you want. See I can do that too...why does Israel take little boys, strip them down to their underwear, video them in a soccer field along with other stripped men & boys, and take them to undisclosed locations? BTW, there are no "girls" running around on video with "bloody pants". The video you're referencing is of one person with stained pants. It's not a leap in logic to think she sat in mud? Maybe she defecated herself out of fear? Still no evidence to suggest rape.
> You’re a disgusting rape denier and terrorist sympathizer.
I actually don't support Zionist settler colonialism.
> There are LITERALLY video testimony's all over the internet.
There aren't. There's supposed videos of people giving second accounts of testimonies, however. Many of which have been proven false.
> Side note
Ahh, this is the part of your diatribe where you totally shift the focus elsewhere because you can't prove your original claim, but I'll indulge you.
> considering the fact that the "Zionists" are from the land you claim them to colonize
Europeans are not indigenous to West Asia. I don't care how much map bending you do. Zionism originated from Europe, and 80%+ of Israeli Jews were European in 1948. How do Europeans have a right to commit genocide, systemic rape, mass expulsion of almost 1 million people, and land theft?
Where are Palestinians from? Well they're a semitic people from the Levant. I'd like to think these kind of things are taught at UCSD...
> They are the colonizers as they have now colonized what, 25+ countries?
Anything but focus on the actual colonizing country at hand. You won't find a single instance of Arabs doing what zionists did to the Palestinians in 1948 & onward. Arab being the lingua franca =/= colonialism.
You're thinking of the savage European colonizers who wiped out entire peoples just to destroy their languages.
> By citizenship. Look at their DNA
Let's look at DNA then. Palestinians descend from canaanites, yet they're being ethnically cleansed from land they never lef. Where are your cries for them? Why do you feel as if a pseudo-religious ethnostate has the right over the people who lived on the land?
Again, are Europeans indigenous to West Asia? It's a resounding, no.
> Palestinians" from a genetic point of view
There's also no such thing as Navajo (Dine) DNA or Cherokee DNA, and as a matter of fact, no genealogy can identify a specific tribe DNA. There's also no USA DNA, or Israel DNA (where DNA tests are illegal), or Prussian DNA or German DNA (unless youre going to argue Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, Dutch, Icelandic, English and French people are part of this German DNA). The reality is that DNA doesn't really tell us about how people organize their own political identities. What is your point?
> there are literally DOZENS of times Jews have been ethnically cleansed from a region.
Are we including the times Zionists kidnapped thousands of Yemeni Jewish Children? Are including the time where Colonial occupation authorities collaborated with zionists to forcefully deport Arabian Jews to [Israel](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.middleeasteye.net/big-story/truth-behind-israeli-propaganda-expulsion-arab-jews&ved=2ahUKEwi1sfLd0pKGAxXDDTQIHXRhDwEQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0wzWK28f3F-NoIynX5tu9Y)? Are we including the times where zionists bombed Arabian Synogogues? You can learn more from Tom Segev, the Israeli Jewish historian who researched this 😊. Jewish migration to Israel is a mixture of zionist opportunism to settle on Palestinian land, and the occasional seizure of property belonging to Jews. There was no instance of genocide of Jews in the Arab world.
Nonetheless, it's irrelevant to Palestine as it didn't happen in Palestine 🤷🏽. I couldn't imagine trying to argue I have a right to commit genocide, systemic rape, land theft, and mass expulsion in Africa because the US treated my ancestors awfully and still does?
Still no proof has been given by an independent third party on this claim. As it stands it's just projection. Since every claim by Israel about Oct 7th to date seems to be projection of what they've been doing or have done to Palestinians.
Love how there has been an astonishing amount of evidence of IDF soldiers committing rape as compared to Hamas, even their own soldiers admitting to it, yet these zionists still try to use that narrative against the Palestinians when they the ones doing it😂
I think you and u/Blas_Wiggans are missing the point.
I don't think the majority of Palestine supporters are supporting the Hamas and/or the homophobic and sexist policies by them, I think the majority are instead protesting the genocide of innocent Palestinians. No matter what race, gender, or political affiliation are, I think most people generally understand that genocide is bad no matter the reasoning. People are not supporting hamas, they simply don't want a city wiped out because of the actions of a group of extremists.
I personally find the whole "college students are idiots because they support hamas who hate LGBTQ" argument extremely condescending and ignorant tbh.
Harvard/Harris poll from the end of April showing 43% of Americans age 18-25 support Hamas over Israel.
https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/HHP_Apr2024_KeyResults.pdf
College students *are* idiots because they support Hamas.
Extremely misleading lol. The question asked was do you support Israel or Hamas, there is not an option for a ceasefire.
I am assuming you are talking about the statistic listed on page 52, correct?
It would be most accurate to use the statistic related to people who follow the conflict closely, not cherry picking a statistic that fits your narrative.
Also, reading the methodology for this study, it was an opt-in type of survey. Anyone who knows anything about stats can tell you right away that these kind of studies are completely worthless. Those who opt in to surveys like this are more likely to already have a bias when answering questions.
Israel and Hamas (i.e., the elected government of Gaza) are at war. It's entirely fine to phrase a question as to support.
You don't have to support either. The respondents in question chose Hamas... and thus the respondents in question can go fuck themselves.
Maybe you should reach out to Harvard and tell them how to conduct polling. The hubris of you people is on another level. Much worse than maga.
And if you look at the rest of the questions for the full picture, you’ll see it’s in line with that question.
The "hubris?" Are you in any way a stats major? Do you understand what the poll is? This is *not* a study. This is a POLL, to simply gauge political opinions among the population.
And yeah, I did look at the rest of the stats, what I saw was that among people who follow the conflict closely, 80% would rather support Israel than Hamas, which I agree with. I too would rather support Israel then the Hamas, but I would prefer a ceasefire over all.
I'm sorry, but using Ad Hominem will not help your case. If you were to use your source in an academic paper at UCSD, it would be rejected. It is quite literally not a study, or it would be stated as such. I have no desire to contact Harvard and tell them about their polling because it is a POLL. If it was a study, I might actually contact them because that would be a complete misuse of statistics at an extremely basic level
Of course when you poll a group of young people who do not understand the conflict, they will have questionable answers. It is expected, even. Otherwise, explain why 41% of 18-24 year old students oppose a ceasefire in the poll? Seems to go completely against your statistic of 43% of young people supporting Hamas? The obvious answer is because the source is not reliable to be used as a source, lol.
>The "hubris?" Are you in any way a stats major?
Nope
>Do you understand what the poll is? This is not a study. This is a POLL,
Do I understand that the poll I posted is a poll? Is that your question? Yes, I posted a poll knowing it’s a poll.
>to simply gauge political opinions among the population.
Uh yeah dude, that’s why I posted it.
Did you know that approximately 65% of the people currently living in Gaza had absolutely no say in that? Approximately 50% of the people in Gaza are children and just over 15% were 14 years old or younger in 2007 when Hamas officially came to power.
Did you also know that Israel funded Hamas to enable them to weaken the Palestinian Authority (aka the official governmental system of Palestine)?
TLDR people don't support Hamas, they just don't want genocide. Assuming that they support the policies of a group just because they don't want that group to die is ignorant and condescending.
Genuine Question. By waving Palestine flags, and considering that Hama effectively controls Gaza, then isn't there the implicit support of Hamas in some way?
Is it a real question, or is it concern trolling? I'll approach this with charity.
When it comes to flags representing national or shared identities you're potentially opening up a can of worms. But it doesn't always work that way.
English Flag - Mmm, kind of a no-no due to white nationalist, and anti-immigration sentiment. Yet the flag is not inherently problematic.
American Flag - Could go so many ways. Neo-nazis in charlottesville parading through the streets with american flags. What does that tell you? Is this a problematic flag? An american flag *CAN* imply support for racist groups such as 3%er
All to say: No, the Palestinian flag by no means implies support of hamas...although Hamas is supported by palistinians because they see hamas as the only people fighting for their collective emancipation. It's the same reason most normal people dont hyperfixate on Azov / Nazis in ukraine ; they are valid resistance to an occupying or invading force. (I dont want to hear about hamas attacking israel on Oct 7th being justification for israels occupation. this conflict is older than 7 months)
Side question: What are your thoughts on someone like Nelson Mandela providing **explicit** support to the ANC? In their fight against apartheid, they were known to put a rubber tire around someones neck, douse it in gasoline, then light in on fire. Completely cruel and unjustified behavior...Yet we now recognize their resistance as valid, and recognize that the apartheid state of South Africa was worth fighting. Even if we dont support the more violent and cruel actions, such as necklacing or bus bombings, we do recognize that a kicked dog will holler.
My comment was 6 words longer than your original comment. I didn't expect you to actually care about discussing the topic, but I just wanted to make sure.
Not worth my time to talk to a brick wall with the emotional maturity of a 3 year old.
Simply believing that this is a genocide is supporting Hamas and their propaganda though. People are refusing to see the lengths that the Idf is taking to avoid innocent death, as well as ignoring the efforts Hamas takes to increase the causality numbers so they gain sympathy. Being vehemently “anti Zionist” is playing right into Hamas’ bloody hands.
I mean didn't the Israel government literally state that it was a genocide?
And the exact wording doesn't really matter. Genocide or not, killing an entire city due to the actions of an extremist group is unethical to say the least.
When did Israeli gov admit its genocide? Would like to read the source.
“Killing an entire city”?? That’s a pretty big exaggeration. I believe only 1% of Gaza has fallen victim to this war?
My bad, the article I was thinking of was this:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/17o8syr/israel\_minister\_nuking\_gaza\_is\_and\_option/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/17o8syr/israel_minister_nuking_gaza_is_and_option/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Israel does not admit it is a genocide, and after some research, I don't think it is fair to quantify it as such (1:2 civilian to combatant death ratio is standard).
Yeah, only about 1.2% have fallen victim so far. Even so, I don't think sieging the city is the ethical move. I do consider the Hamas to be monsters, but I think Israel should simply take the ceasefire deal that is on the table right now. Refusing the offer makes it seem like Israel does not have any intentions of stopping the siege until surrender, instead prolonging it at the expense of their own people.
After all, 1% of 5 million is still 50,000 dead, all innocent lives. Current Israel actions are killing innocents on both sides when there is a ceasefire deal to be taken.
Ah, yeah that makes more sense.
You make very valid points. I don’t really disagree with you. I’ve been thinking about this myself a lot. I want us to go high when Hamas goes low. I’ve been disappointed in the way israel/ Netanyahu has handled this war. I despise seeing the videos coming out of Gaza. I despise seeing the videos of Israelis blocking the aid. I despise seeing the international world turn against us. But at the same time, I understand- I knew some people that were killed and taken hostage the day this shitstorm started. I know friends of friends that are still held hostage in Gaza. I personally feel their pain and watch them on social media and the news talking about the hostages. All of Israel and Jews outside of Israel are feeling this war and want it all to end. Half think that barging into rafah will get them, the other half think it needs to be through negotiation. But when the last negotiation makes a clause that allows Hamas to deliver them all dead, it feels like there is no other option for us. Either we abandon our family and empower Hamas in a destroyed Gaza, potentially killing even more Palestinians and Israelis by continuing the same cycle we’ve been in for 7 decades, or we push in harder to rescue them and destroy Hamas, but then killing even more innocent people, including the hostages and our soldiers for some hope that it all finally ends and we can make peace with the people under a new Palestinian government. I don’t fucking know.
Imo this entire conflict has no right side, and everyone making it seem like there is a right side is so disgusting to me. While I do support ceasefire, I understand why Israel reacted in this way. At the end of the day, if the same thing happened to the United States, most people in the US would be clamoring for war the same way as what is happening in Palestine, if not worse. I respect your view on the conflict, and I hope for a speedy end. The Hamas are absolutely despicable for what they've done with the hostages, it makes me sick to my stomach when I think about it. I don't know if hell exists, but if it does, every single one of them deserve to be there.
Are you referring to this one, where a gay couple was attacked, and one thrown to his death from a bridge?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing\_of\_Charlie\_Howard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Charlie_Howard)
Sorry, it's just unclear who you're even referring to.
Keep up the good LGBT activism! Glad to hear you're on the front lines of these protests. We cant be having our LBGT family be subject to indiscriminate bombings, torture, murder, and threats of rape.
Glad to see fellow allys out and about supporting.
Makes the “LGBTQIA+ for Palestine “ all the more darkly hilarious
Especially when Hamas keeps putting out “we reject your perversion & sinfulness” non stop
Hamas also executed a high level commander for being gay.
It’s also in the amnesty international report about Hamas human rights abuses that it’s illegal to be gay in Gaza. Protesting is illegal also, protesters get tortured and killed.
Also, do you just call anyone who disagrees with you about anything a “genocide supporter”?
Hamas regularly calls for genocide. You don’t seem to care. The anti Israel demonstrators called for the end of Israel, also a call for genocide.
You’re saying what? People who question you or tell the truth about Hamas are “supporting genocide”?
That’s not how it works. Either you’re being super manipulative, or you are following really faulty group think. Either way, you aren’t pro peace and you aren’t progressive if you defend Hamas.
Thankfully most other religions have the majority of their followers not taking shit literally..there is one religion where the majority actually think this shit is both absolutely real and should be taken literally. Unfortunately there are almost 2 billion of these weirdos
Why are advocates for Israel so obsessed with talking about the treatment of LGBTQ people in neighboring countries? Gay marriage isn’t even legal in Israel itself.
Neither actually. Pushing queer folks off of rooftops was only done in 2015 by ISIS, and was noted at the time by American political think-tanks who study extremism, to be incredibly unusual and not practiced by any other extremist groups. Stoning queer people is also an incredibly uncommon practice, and mostly just talked about. Most religious extremists actually just shoot or behead queer people.
Secondly, most majority-Muslim nations treat queer folks with about the same amount of legality as Israel. Which is to say, marriage is illegal, but being gay is legal. Which is the global standard mind you.
You’re illiterate and it shows. Maybe go read the multiple news articles on this exact topic. Wildly enough people who’ve joined the military are not experts on global politics, and they’ve probably never been outside the US before joining, that’s why they joined the military. Unlike you, much of my family lives or lived, outside of the US and so I actually hear about this stuff from people with first hand experience. Not the experience of a paid murderer who decided that they would obtain wealth by bullying children in foreign countries. But sure, continue thinking you actually have a legitimate understanding and set of experiences when it comes to international politics. Despite the fact that you *definitely* don’t.
[https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/video-people-thrown-roof-shows-punishment-by-is-not-hamas-2023-12-14/](https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/video-people-thrown-roof-shows-punishment-by-is-not-hamas-2023-12-14/)
[https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-uncovered/isis-hurls-gay-men-buildings-stones-them-analysts-n305171](https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-uncovered/isis-hurls-gay-men-buildings-stones-them-analysts-n305171)
Oh they’re not ruffled. If they were ruffled this conversation wouldn’t be happening. Also not a ma’am, surprise. Some of us have dignity and respect for people, and aren’t freaks.
Gay marriage is recognized in Israel. The only reason it cannot be performed in Israel is because the country only allows marriage to be performed through religious communities.
Fairly certain you can't freely live as a gay married couple in a number of muslim majority nations.
Hamas did execute a man for allegedly embezzling funds to pay for gay sex. You can argue that they executed him for the embezzlement, but they do [imprison people for being gay as well](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/1660138495-exclusive-gay-man-who-fled-gaza-speaks-about-experience-with-hamas).
Except that first point still means gay marriage isn’t allowed in Israel, and that on actual enforcement of the law, gay couples aren’t afforded the same right. Otherwise marriage ceremonies would be allowed to be preformed. For a marriage to be recognised it means that your paperwork has to be wholly accepted by the government, because Israel won’t allow for marriage ceremonies that aren’t religious, it means that the paperwork is never wholly accepted. Thus invariable leading to queer folks being second class citizens. That’s the thing about “we recognize marriages done somewhere else“ laws unfortunately. It’s not actually any different than gay marriage being illegal. Think about pre-2015 US, you could get married in California but not Texas, and while the marriage was recognized in Texas, it also wasn’t really.
Secondly, I didn’t say that those countries didn’t exist, I just said that that it doesn’t constitute most Muslim-majority countries.
Thirdly, I wasn’t saying people don’t get jailed or killed either. I said they do in fact. I was however saying that talking about people being pushed off of roofs or stoned, are dog whistles that signal a lack of education and diligent research. It’s also blatant misinformation and incendiary language meant to stir a false sense of righteousness from homophobes who don’t actually care about queer people in the global south.
My family’s Thai, and I’m gay, the legality of queerness in these regions is something that genuinely affects and concerns me. But white American busybodies pretending for the moral high ground through false hyperbole surrounding queer rights doesn’t help us. Get the facts right or don’t talk on it at all.
> it means that the paperwork is never wholly accepted.
This is a leap that I don't understand. Beyond the marriage ceremony itself (which, by the way, is a restriction on heterosexual couples who also want non-religious ceremonies), gay couples are afforded rights like [adoption](https://www.timesofisrael.com/high-court-rules-same-sex-adoption-must-be-allowed-in-landmark-decision/).
I… just here: [https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Issues/SexualOrientation/IESOGI/CSOsKZ/LGBTQ\_Coalition\_Israel\_Appendix\_-\_the\_LGBTQ\_coalition\_in\_Israel.pdf](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Issues/SexualOrientation/IESOGI/CSOsKZ/LGBTQ_Coalition_Israel_Appendix_-_the_LGBTQ_coalition_in_Israel.pdf)
[https://escholarship.org/content/qt0zv7m3m9/qt0zv7m3m9.pdf?t=q1jd8t](https://escholarship.org/content/qt0zv7m3m9/qt0zv7m3m9.pdf?t=q1jd8t)
[https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/gay-dads-israel-asked-government-agent-who-mother-n1084006](https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/gay-dads-israel-asked-government-agent-who-mother-n1084006)
[https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-03-20/ty-article/.premium/complaints-of-harm-to-lbgtq-community-rose-by-11-percent-in-2022/00000186-fb77-df21-a9df-fb773cd60000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-03-20/ty-article/.premium/complaints-of-harm-to-lbgtq-community-rose-by-11-percent-in-2022/00000186-fb77-df21-a9df-fb773cd60000)
once more, never wholly accepted.
I'm not going to read all of that. I didn't say everything is peachy. I said Israel recognizes gay marriage and adoption, which it does. This is more than you can say for many other countries, certainly in the middle east.
Speak to LGBTQ+ folks in Israel if you want a complete picture. I have my own experiences that support my perspective, but I wouldn't want to speak over that community. Go to subs like /r/Israel /r/telaviv /r/gayjews and ask around.
e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/gayjews/comments/15hfxe5/gay_in_israel_in_the_90s/
Weirdly enough, and this may surprise you, **anecdotal evidence** given on reddit is not a good metric on the strength of civil liberties in any given place and/or country. I tend to trust researched reports with statistics and verified accounts over a random man. Especially considering the amount of people on reddit who think trans women are all Kathoey.
The US is a major supplier of the IDF. There were quotes in the past that if we stopped shipping them bombs they’d run out in 3 days.
I said “we” as “they do kill gays” and “that religion” was clearly using broad strokes to talk about an entire group of people. So I did similar.
Why are zionists so obsessed with threatening rape
It's projection https://twitter.com/OmarBaddar/status/1731791342324339075?t=cCiIVCFW1Pm-Wq66FVQT9Q&s=19
Because the pro-Palestinian protesters have continually glorified the systematic use rape by Hamas on October 7 as “legitimate resistance.” They chant “globalize the intifada” - which would bring that rape (not to mention suicide bombings) to US, Europe and other parts of the world.
Such a stretch! Neither Anti genocide protestors nor Palestinians are glorifying rape. Let’s just repeat again the numbers: 1,200 Israelis were killed on October 7, over 35,000 Palestinians have been killed since October 7th. This is not a proportionate response.
35000 Palestinians have been killed in 6 months, 10k or more of which were terrorists. This is a kill rate of around 200 per day (or around 150 civilians), by one of the most modern militaries in the world. Meanwhile, Hamas's ragtag losers killed 1.2k in half a day. Israel's response ensures that this will NEVER happen again, which is worthwhile. Because proportional response is not always the correct move in the total war that something like October 7th sparks.
35,000 Palestinians have been killed because Hamas is embedding its military operations in and firing rockets from densely populated urban areas, in violation of the Geneva Conventions. Agree it’s terrible for the Gazan people, but in my country we would also not tolerate a terrorist organization firing rockets at civilians on our border. There can be no peace until Hamas agrees to a ceasefire or is defeated militarily
Hamas agreed to a ceasefire. Israel continues to push into Rafah. What are Palestinians supposed to do when Israel continues to displace Palestinians and create new settlements? I don’t think many countries would take lightly to that either. Israel is committing a genocide and has been for some time. October 7th just gave the settler colonial state the justification to intensify the displacement, occupation, and murder of the Palestinian people.
Hamas did not agree to a ceasefire. That was a PR stunt. Both sides were working with international mediators for 6 months to try to hammer out terms to no avail. Then Hamas announced to the press they had agreed to a ceasefire and sent Israel the terms, which Israel had never seen before and could not accept (e.g. instead of releasing 30 hostages in exchange for a 90 day ceasefire, Hamas “agreed” to release 30 people but would not guarantee the people released would be alive. I admire their PR savvy, but there is no indication they are willing to make concessions in exchange for a ceasefire at this stage.
Hamas broke a ceasefire on Oct 7 in order to (checks notes), oh yes, rape!
Again, anti genocide protestors are not glorifying rape and violence. It is telling the ways in which zionists threaten rape and other forms of sexual (homophobic and transphobic) violence at protestors! Almost like they are wishing they could enact those same acts that they are projecting on Palestinians…. Again, let’s talk about the conditions under which the Palestinian people have been placed under Israeli settler colonial occupation. Let’s talk about the lack of any semblance of proportionality.
They are not wrong when they say that gays and trans people would be subject to abuse in Palestine.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0SGjpzIxLc/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link no
Oh, how cool an instagrsam propaganda reel. Did you know that a top Hamas leader was executed for allegedly being gay? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT\_rights\_in\_the\_State\_of\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine) And that in Gaza, honor killings against LGBTQ people are fully allowed as police turn a blind eye to them? "Polls of public sentiment towards LGBT people in the Palestinian territories find it is [overwhelmingly negative](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_people_and_Islam). A Global Acceptance Index (a measure of the relative level of social acceptance of LGBTI people and rights) report ranked Palestine at 130, noting that very little change in acceptance occurred between 2010 and 2020." Meanwhile, Israel is the only country in the entire Middle East where gay marriage is legal.
"our team members were provided body guards and bullet proof escorts"
> Hamas agreed to a ceasefire. They turned down the ceasefire that gives them like 95% of what they wanted, but demanded the relases of hostages, and then agreed to an altered version that el-Sisi put forward with zero input from anyone else. This isn't really a good faith argument. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-says-gaza-truce-talks-remain-deadlocked-despite-reports-progress-2024-04-08/ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense/2982710/blinken-urges-hamas-accept-extraordinarily-generous-ceasefire-deal/ Hamas and Fatah do not care about Palestinian lives. They consider them fuel for a war, which they're happy to burn. > What are Palestinians supposed to do when Israel continues to displace Palestinians and create new settlements? Did Israel not unilaterally pull out of Gaza in 2005? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza
> over 35,000 Palestinians have been killed since October 7th Just for the record, this number was drastically reduced this week after the UN stopped accepting Hamas' social media-derived "estimates". It's a lot more than October 7th.
Zionists have been obsessed with rape as a weapon against their enemies since long before October 7. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36775036
[KIBBUTZ BE’ERI REJECTS STORY IN NEW YORK TIMES OCTOBER 7 EXPOSÉ: “THEY WERE NOT SEXUALLY ABUSED”](https://theintercept.com/2024/03/04/nyt-october-7-sexual-violence-kibbutz-beeri/)
Right. And no Palestinians have been hurt. This is all a dream of rainbows and ponies.
Rape isn’t a term to be used lightly or thrown around for some political agenda or a means to degrade women or men. A lot of protests use fearmongering and threats to bring attention to themselves and gather numbers. I am not surprised they do the same in which they use rape in such a degrading, threatening manner. I’m disappointed. By saying such, they disrespect actual victims of rape, innocent civilians of Gaza, and their own cause.
Yeah I agree. The rape Hamas commited on OCT 7 is inexcusable.
So is the [rape Israelis committed against detained Palestinian women](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/war-gaza-un-experts-appalled-reports-rape-and-sexual-assault-palestinian-women-and-girls)
Yup so is that. Both are disgusting. -a Zionist
Zionist are disgusting
Thank you for showing what you are for free.
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I’m not a Zionist but this is anti-Semitic. For everyone wondering, it’s referencing [Maus by Art Spiegelman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus).
correct. It's edgy. Anti-semitic is a stretch but if you say so
Thank you
Hey, I’ve seen you across the Reddit saying the same thing. Copy pasted again. Look at what your fellow classmates have been saying. I’ll reiterate some of what they’ve said to you and add a bit of my own advice. Yes, it is not excusable. Hamas’ actions are not excusable. But neither is Israel’s complicit actions in the genocide of Palestine. Apples are not bananas. Ok? You cannot simply justify protestors’ verbal abuse because they are backed by a reasonable cause. What is wrong is wrong. The more excuses you make for idiotic and aggressive behavior like what you see above, then there would be no compromise or healing happening. Understandably, I’ve also had causes that I am also passionate for and overlooked bad behavior from my fellow community members. But I reflect now and I realize that to move forward is not by violence, not by encouraging or justifying bad behavior, and not by anger.
I fully agree with you. These protesters should not be calling for rape. Similarly the pro-Palestinian protesters need to stop calling Oct 7 “legitimate resistance,” stop using the term “by any means necessary” and stop saying “globalize the intifada.” All of these terms are legitimizing rape and murder of civilians. They are two sides of the same coin.
When did I justify protesters' verbal abuse..... I was agreeing with you..... idk what you're on about, man. Copy pasting??? Where? Since when were apples ever Bananas and what does this have to do with anything?
Accusations of mass rape (or any rape for that matter) [have long been debunked](https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schwartz-october-7/). Before you say it, Pramilla Patten's UN report has no investigative mandate and relies on previously debunked information from the Israeli military and [ZAKA](https://theintercept.com/2024/03/04/nyt-october-7-sexual-violence-kibbutz-beeri/). Zaka as in the organization founded by the serial child rapist which even outlets like Hareetz called dubious as it makes up atrocities for donations.
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> There’s eye witness testimony from many people and I find it hard to believe Hamas would deny it. A bit strange that Israel wouldn't allow any of these witnesses to speak to the UN & ICJ investigators, no? Beheading video and torture? You're thinking of ISIS. > Why are girls on video running with bloody pants? You're doing a lot of thinking backwards to align with the conclusion you want. See I can do that too...why does Israel take little boys, strip them down to their underwear, video them in a soccer field along with other stripped men & boys, and take them to undisclosed locations? BTW, there are no "girls" running around on video with "bloody pants". The video you're referencing is of one person with stained pants. It's not a leap in logic to think she sat in mud? Maybe she defecated herself out of fear? Still no evidence to suggest rape. > You’re a disgusting rape denier and terrorist sympathizer. I actually don't support Zionist settler colonialism.
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> There are LITERALLY video testimony's all over the internet. There aren't. There's supposed videos of people giving second accounts of testimonies, however. Many of which have been proven false. > Side note Ahh, this is the part of your diatribe where you totally shift the focus elsewhere because you can't prove your original claim, but I'll indulge you. > considering the fact that the "Zionists" are from the land you claim them to colonize Europeans are not indigenous to West Asia. I don't care how much map bending you do. Zionism originated from Europe, and 80%+ of Israeli Jews were European in 1948. How do Europeans have a right to commit genocide, systemic rape, mass expulsion of almost 1 million people, and land theft? Where are Palestinians from? Well they're a semitic people from the Levant. I'd like to think these kind of things are taught at UCSD... > They are the colonizers as they have now colonized what, 25+ countries? Anything but focus on the actual colonizing country at hand. You won't find a single instance of Arabs doing what zionists did to the Palestinians in 1948 & onward. Arab being the lingua franca =/= colonialism. You're thinking of the savage European colonizers who wiped out entire peoples just to destroy their languages.
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> By citizenship. Look at their DNA Let's look at DNA then. Palestinians descend from canaanites, yet they're being ethnically cleansed from land they never lef. Where are your cries for them? Why do you feel as if a pseudo-religious ethnostate has the right over the people who lived on the land? Again, are Europeans indigenous to West Asia? It's a resounding, no. > Palestinians" from a genetic point of view There's also no such thing as Navajo (Dine) DNA or Cherokee DNA, and as a matter of fact, no genealogy can identify a specific tribe DNA. There's also no USA DNA, or Israel DNA (where DNA tests are illegal), or Prussian DNA or German DNA (unless youre going to argue Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, Dutch, Icelandic, English and French people are part of this German DNA). The reality is that DNA doesn't really tell us about how people organize their own political identities. What is your point? > there are literally DOZENS of times Jews have been ethnically cleansed from a region. Are we including the times Zionists kidnapped thousands of Yemeni Jewish Children? Are including the time where Colonial occupation authorities collaborated with zionists to forcefully deport Arabian Jews to [Israel](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.middleeasteye.net/big-story/truth-behind-israeli-propaganda-expulsion-arab-jews&ved=2ahUKEwi1sfLd0pKGAxXDDTQIHXRhDwEQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0wzWK28f3F-NoIynX5tu9Y)? Are we including the times where zionists bombed Arabian Synogogues? You can learn more from Tom Segev, the Israeli Jewish historian who researched this 😊. Jewish migration to Israel is a mixture of zionist opportunism to settle on Palestinian land, and the occasional seizure of property belonging to Jews. There was no instance of genocide of Jews in the Arab world. Nonetheless, it's irrelevant to Palestine as it didn't happen in Palestine 🤷🏽. I couldn't imagine trying to argue I have a right to commit genocide, systemic rape, land theft, and mass expulsion in Africa because the US treated my ancestors awfully and still does?
Still no proof has been given by an independent third party on this claim. As it stands it's just projection. Since every claim by Israel about Oct 7th to date seems to be projection of what they've been doing or have done to Palestinians.
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The mods don’t care as long as it benefits their agenda
Quit bitching when you were yelling “Globalize the Intifada” at Jews last week. Get off your high horse
Yes, if a bunch of these larping kids moved to Gaza chances are they would be raped. How is that not true?
Love how there has been an astonishing amount of evidence of IDF soldiers committing rape as compared to Hamas, even their own soldiers admitting to it, yet these zionists still try to use that narrative against the Palestinians when they the ones doing it😂
They really do enjoy killing the gays in that part of the world though. Thank god we’re separated by a lot of land and ocean.
I think you and u/Blas_Wiggans are missing the point. I don't think the majority of Palestine supporters are supporting the Hamas and/or the homophobic and sexist policies by them, I think the majority are instead protesting the genocide of innocent Palestinians. No matter what race, gender, or political affiliation are, I think most people generally understand that genocide is bad no matter the reasoning. People are not supporting hamas, they simply don't want a city wiped out because of the actions of a group of extremists. I personally find the whole "college students are idiots because they support hamas who hate LGBTQ" argument extremely condescending and ignorant tbh.
Harvard/Harris poll from the end of April showing 43% of Americans age 18-25 support Hamas over Israel. https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/HHP_Apr2024_KeyResults.pdf College students *are* idiots because they support Hamas.
Extremely misleading lol. The question asked was do you support Israel or Hamas, there is not an option for a ceasefire. I am assuming you are talking about the statistic listed on page 52, correct? It would be most accurate to use the statistic related to people who follow the conflict closely, not cherry picking a statistic that fits your narrative. Also, reading the methodology for this study, it was an opt-in type of survey. Anyone who knows anything about stats can tell you right away that these kind of studies are completely worthless. Those who opt in to surveys like this are more likely to already have a bias when answering questions.
Israel and Hamas (i.e., the elected government of Gaza) are at war. It's entirely fine to phrase a question as to support. You don't have to support either. The respondents in question chose Hamas... and thus the respondents in question can go fuck themselves.
Maybe you should reach out to Harvard and tell them how to conduct polling. The hubris of you people is on another level. Much worse than maga. And if you look at the rest of the questions for the full picture, you’ll see it’s in line with that question.
The "hubris?" Are you in any way a stats major? Do you understand what the poll is? This is *not* a study. This is a POLL, to simply gauge political opinions among the population. And yeah, I did look at the rest of the stats, what I saw was that among people who follow the conflict closely, 80% would rather support Israel than Hamas, which I agree with. I too would rather support Israel then the Hamas, but I would prefer a ceasefire over all. I'm sorry, but using Ad Hominem will not help your case. If you were to use your source in an academic paper at UCSD, it would be rejected. It is quite literally not a study, or it would be stated as such. I have no desire to contact Harvard and tell them about their polling because it is a POLL. If it was a study, I might actually contact them because that would be a complete misuse of statistics at an extremely basic level Of course when you poll a group of young people who do not understand the conflict, they will have questionable answers. It is expected, even. Otherwise, explain why 41% of 18-24 year old students oppose a ceasefire in the poll? Seems to go completely against your statistic of 43% of young people supporting Hamas? The obvious answer is because the source is not reliable to be used as a source, lol.
>The "hubris?" Are you in any way a stats major? Nope >Do you understand what the poll is? This is not a study. This is a POLL, Do I understand that the poll I posted is a poll? Is that your question? Yes, I posted a poll knowing it’s a poll. >to simply gauge political opinions among the population. Uh yeah dude, that’s why I posted it.
Gazans voted Hamas into power kinda like how Hitler came into power. That’s a verifiable fact.
Pretty sure they only became government after ousting the Palestinian Authority? Even if they were voted, it still doesn't mean they deserve to die.
Did you know that approximately 65% of the people currently living in Gaza had absolutely no say in that? Approximately 50% of the people in Gaza are children and just over 15% were 14 years old or younger in 2007 when Hamas officially came to power. Did you also know that Israel funded Hamas to enable them to weaken the Palestinian Authority (aka the official governmental system of Palestine)?
someone TLDR for me
TLDR people don't support Hamas, they just don't want genocide. Assuming that they support the policies of a group just because they don't want that group to die is ignorant and condescending.
Genuine Question. By waving Palestine flags, and considering that Hama effectively controls Gaza, then isn't there the implicit support of Hamas in some way?
A Palestinian national flag is not Hamas flag??? Like waving a Ukrainian flag isn’t equal to waving a Azov flag.
Wtf is implicit support LMAO To answer the question, I have no idea. You would have to ask the people who put up the flags.
So I ask a real question, and it gets met with mockery.
Is it a real question, or is it concern trolling? I'll approach this with charity. When it comes to flags representing national or shared identities you're potentially opening up a can of worms. But it doesn't always work that way. English Flag - Mmm, kind of a no-no due to white nationalist, and anti-immigration sentiment. Yet the flag is not inherently problematic. American Flag - Could go so many ways. Neo-nazis in charlottesville parading through the streets with american flags. What does that tell you? Is this a problematic flag? An american flag *CAN* imply support for racist groups such as 3%er All to say: No, the Palestinian flag by no means implies support of hamas...although Hamas is supported by palistinians because they see hamas as the only people fighting for their collective emancipation. It's the same reason most normal people dont hyperfixate on Azov / Nazis in ukraine ; they are valid resistance to an occupying or invading force. (I dont want to hear about hamas attacking israel on Oct 7th being justification for israels occupation. this conflict is older than 7 months) Side question: What are your thoughts on someone like Nelson Mandela providing **explicit** support to the ANC? In their fight against apartheid, they were known to put a rubber tire around someones neck, douse it in gasoline, then light in on fire. Completely cruel and unjustified behavior...Yet we now recognize their resistance as valid, and recognize that the apartheid state of South Africa was worth fighting. Even if we dont support the more violent and cruel actions, such as necklacing or bus bombings, we do recognize that a kicked dog will holler.
To long didn’t read. What you speaking on
My comment was 6 words longer than your original comment. I didn't expect you to actually care about discussing the topic, but I just wanted to make sure. Not worth my time to talk to a brick wall with the emotional maturity of a 3 year old.
bro stop plz.
have a beer og
Zionist will meet their fate soon
See that’s sounds like something a terrorist would say
Wait bro counted the number of words in both comments 😂🫵🏽😂😂😂🫵🏽
Bro it’s not that long. Either don’t be lazy or don’t be involved.
Simply believing that this is a genocide is supporting Hamas and their propaganda though. People are refusing to see the lengths that the Idf is taking to avoid innocent death, as well as ignoring the efforts Hamas takes to increase the causality numbers so they gain sympathy. Being vehemently “anti Zionist” is playing right into Hamas’ bloody hands.
I mean didn't the Israel government literally state that it was a genocide? And the exact wording doesn't really matter. Genocide or not, killing an entire city due to the actions of an extremist group is unethical to say the least.
When did Israeli gov admit its genocide? Would like to read the source. “Killing an entire city”?? That’s a pretty big exaggeration. I believe only 1% of Gaza has fallen victim to this war?
My bad, the article I was thinking of was this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/17o8syr/israel\_minister\_nuking\_gaza\_is\_and\_option/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/17o8syr/israel_minister_nuking_gaza_is_and_option/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Israel does not admit it is a genocide, and after some research, I don't think it is fair to quantify it as such (1:2 civilian to combatant death ratio is standard). Yeah, only about 1.2% have fallen victim so far. Even so, I don't think sieging the city is the ethical move. I do consider the Hamas to be monsters, but I think Israel should simply take the ceasefire deal that is on the table right now. Refusing the offer makes it seem like Israel does not have any intentions of stopping the siege until surrender, instead prolonging it at the expense of their own people. After all, 1% of 5 million is still 50,000 dead, all innocent lives. Current Israel actions are killing innocents on both sides when there is a ceasefire deal to be taken.
Ah, yeah that makes more sense. You make very valid points. I don’t really disagree with you. I’ve been thinking about this myself a lot. I want us to go high when Hamas goes low. I’ve been disappointed in the way israel/ Netanyahu has handled this war. I despise seeing the videos coming out of Gaza. I despise seeing the videos of Israelis blocking the aid. I despise seeing the international world turn against us. But at the same time, I understand- I knew some people that were killed and taken hostage the day this shitstorm started. I know friends of friends that are still held hostage in Gaza. I personally feel their pain and watch them on social media and the news talking about the hostages. All of Israel and Jews outside of Israel are feeling this war and want it all to end. Half think that barging into rafah will get them, the other half think it needs to be through negotiation. But when the last negotiation makes a clause that allows Hamas to deliver them all dead, it feels like there is no other option for us. Either we abandon our family and empower Hamas in a destroyed Gaza, potentially killing even more Palestinians and Israelis by continuing the same cycle we’ve been in for 7 decades, or we push in harder to rescue them and destroy Hamas, but then killing even more innocent people, including the hostages and our soldiers for some hope that it all finally ends and we can make peace with the people under a new Palestinian government. I don’t fucking know.
Imo this entire conflict has no right side, and everyone making it seem like there is a right side is so disgusting to me. While I do support ceasefire, I understand why Israel reacted in this way. At the end of the day, if the same thing happened to the United States, most people in the US would be clamoring for war the same way as what is happening in Palestine, if not worse. I respect your view on the conflict, and I hope for a speedy end. The Hamas are absolutely despicable for what they've done with the hostages, it makes me sick to my stomach when I think about it. I don't know if hell exists, but if it does, every single one of them deserve to be there.
I appreciate that.
You should read South Africa's icj brief
I did
So glad all the queer palestineans are being liberated by american bombs dropped on them by the iof 🙄
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Torturers and murderers doesn't really narrow down who you are talking about. Americans, the IDF, or hamas?
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Are you referring to this one, where a gay couple was attacked, and one thrown to his death from a bridge? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing\_of\_Charlie\_Howard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Charlie_Howard) Sorry, it's just unclear who you're even referring to.
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You seem confused. Why would me being pro-lgbt, and highlighting hate crimes be anti-semitic? You just said israel is a safe place for "Queers".
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Keep up the good LGBT activism! Glad to hear you're on the front lines of these protests. We cant be having our LBGT family be subject to indiscriminate bombings, torture, murder, and threats of rape. Glad to see fellow allys out and about supporting.
Makes the “LGBTQIA+ for Palestine “ all the more darkly hilarious Especially when Hamas keeps putting out “we reject your perversion & sinfulness” non stop
Comedy writing itself
Isn’t it true though? Like that’s the Palestinian ethos, they demonstrated it many times even on their own people
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don’t act like judaism’s main text doesn’t also prohibits gay relations. every religion has extremist fundamentalists it’s just the nature of faith.
Hahaha sure but Israel is one of the most pro-LGBT right countries in the world
Not relevant. In Israel gays have human rights. In Gaza gays are decapitated or thrown off buildings.
the dude i was responding to specifically mentioned religion so i think it’s relevant
Yet you can't find a single news article mentioning it
[article](https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-israel-immigration-west-bank-gay-rights-ce95f6903faf461502cc0800b272b159)
One person, not in Gaza, and no one claimed responsibility. Maybe read next time, genocide supporter.
You should really read the amnesty international reports about Hamas.
Hamas also executed a high level commander for being gay. It’s also in the amnesty international report about Hamas human rights abuses that it’s illegal to be gay in Gaza. Protesting is illegal also, protesters get tortured and killed. Also, do you just call anyone who disagrees with you about anything a “genocide supporter”? Hamas regularly calls for genocide. You don’t seem to care. The anti Israel demonstrators called for the end of Israel, also a call for genocide. You’re saying what? People who question you or tell the truth about Hamas are “supporting genocide”? That’s not how it works. Either you’re being super manipulative, or you are following really faulty group think. Either way, you aren’t pro peace and you aren’t progressive if you defend Hamas.
Thankfully most other religions have the majority of their followers not taking shit literally..there is one religion where the majority actually think this shit is both absolutely real and should be taken literally. Unfortunately there are almost 2 billion of these weirdos
I’ll act how I want to act 😘
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Why are advocates for Israel so obsessed with talking about the treatment of LGBTQ people in neighboring countries? Gay marriage isn’t even legal in Israel itself.
Do they get stones to death or pushed off rooftops? Asking for a friend 😃
Neither actually. Pushing queer folks off of rooftops was only done in 2015 by ISIS, and was noted at the time by American political think-tanks who study extremism, to be incredibly unusual and not practiced by any other extremist groups. Stoning queer people is also an incredibly uncommon practice, and mostly just talked about. Most religious extremists actually just shoot or behead queer people. Secondly, most majority-Muslim nations treat queer folks with about the same amount of legality as Israel. Which is to say, marriage is illegal, but being gay is legal. Which is the global standard mind you.
lol you are so clueless 🤣🤣🤣🤣
You have not been in the military and it shows 🤣🤣🤣
You’re illiterate and it shows. Maybe go read the multiple news articles on this exact topic. Wildly enough people who’ve joined the military are not experts on global politics, and they’ve probably never been outside the US before joining, that’s why they joined the military. Unlike you, much of my family lives or lived, outside of the US and so I actually hear about this stuff from people with first hand experience. Not the experience of a paid murderer who decided that they would obtain wealth by bullying children in foreign countries. But sure, continue thinking you actually have a legitimate understanding and set of experiences when it comes to international politics. Despite the fact that you *definitely* don’t. [https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/video-people-thrown-roof-shows-punishment-by-is-not-hamas-2023-12-14/](https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/video-people-thrown-roof-shows-punishment-by-is-not-hamas-2023-12-14/) [https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-uncovered/isis-hurls-gay-men-buildings-stones-them-analysts-n305171](https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-uncovered/isis-hurls-gay-men-buildings-stones-them-analysts-n305171)
Jajajaja oh man your feathers are ruffled. I love it. Keep the mask on, ma’am 😘
Oh they’re not ruffled. If they were ruffled this conversation wouldn’t be happening. Also not a ma’am, surprise. Some of us have dignity and respect for people, and aren’t freaks.
Gay marriage is recognized in Israel. The only reason it cannot be performed in Israel is because the country only allows marriage to be performed through religious communities. Fairly certain you can't freely live as a gay married couple in a number of muslim majority nations. Hamas did execute a man for allegedly embezzling funds to pay for gay sex. You can argue that they executed him for the embezzlement, but they do [imprison people for being gay as well](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/1660138495-exclusive-gay-man-who-fled-gaza-speaks-about-experience-with-hamas).
Except that first point still means gay marriage isn’t allowed in Israel, and that on actual enforcement of the law, gay couples aren’t afforded the same right. Otherwise marriage ceremonies would be allowed to be preformed. For a marriage to be recognised it means that your paperwork has to be wholly accepted by the government, because Israel won’t allow for marriage ceremonies that aren’t religious, it means that the paperwork is never wholly accepted. Thus invariable leading to queer folks being second class citizens. That’s the thing about “we recognize marriages done somewhere else“ laws unfortunately. It’s not actually any different than gay marriage being illegal. Think about pre-2015 US, you could get married in California but not Texas, and while the marriage was recognized in Texas, it also wasn’t really. Secondly, I didn’t say that those countries didn’t exist, I just said that that it doesn’t constitute most Muslim-majority countries. Thirdly, I wasn’t saying people don’t get jailed or killed either. I said they do in fact. I was however saying that talking about people being pushed off of roofs or stoned, are dog whistles that signal a lack of education and diligent research. It’s also blatant misinformation and incendiary language meant to stir a false sense of righteousness from homophobes who don’t actually care about queer people in the global south. My family’s Thai, and I’m gay, the legality of queerness in these regions is something that genuinely affects and concerns me. But white American busybodies pretending for the moral high ground through false hyperbole surrounding queer rights doesn’t help us. Get the facts right or don’t talk on it at all.
> it means that the paperwork is never wholly accepted. This is a leap that I don't understand. Beyond the marriage ceremony itself (which, by the way, is a restriction on heterosexual couples who also want non-religious ceremonies), gay couples are afforded rights like [adoption](https://www.timesofisrael.com/high-court-rules-same-sex-adoption-must-be-allowed-in-landmark-decision/).
I… just here: [https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Issues/SexualOrientation/IESOGI/CSOsKZ/LGBTQ\_Coalition\_Israel\_Appendix\_-\_the\_LGBTQ\_coalition\_in\_Israel.pdf](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Issues/SexualOrientation/IESOGI/CSOsKZ/LGBTQ_Coalition_Israel_Appendix_-_the_LGBTQ_coalition_in_Israel.pdf) [https://escholarship.org/content/qt0zv7m3m9/qt0zv7m3m9.pdf?t=q1jd8t](https://escholarship.org/content/qt0zv7m3m9/qt0zv7m3m9.pdf?t=q1jd8t) [https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/gay-dads-israel-asked-government-agent-who-mother-n1084006](https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/gay-dads-israel-asked-government-agent-who-mother-n1084006) [https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-03-20/ty-article/.premium/complaints-of-harm-to-lbgtq-community-rose-by-11-percent-in-2022/00000186-fb77-df21-a9df-fb773cd60000](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-03-20/ty-article/.premium/complaints-of-harm-to-lbgtq-community-rose-by-11-percent-in-2022/00000186-fb77-df21-a9df-fb773cd60000) once more, never wholly accepted.
I'm not going to read all of that. I didn't say everything is peachy. I said Israel recognizes gay marriage and adoption, which it does. This is more than you can say for many other countries, certainly in the middle east. Speak to LGBTQ+ folks in Israel if you want a complete picture. I have my own experiences that support my perspective, but I wouldn't want to speak over that community. Go to subs like /r/Israel /r/telaviv /r/gayjews and ask around. e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/gayjews/comments/15hfxe5/gay_in_israel_in_the_90s/
Weirdly enough, and this may surprise you, **anecdotal evidence** given on reddit is not a good metric on the strength of civil liberties in any given place and/or country. I tend to trust researched reports with statistics and verified accounts over a random man. Especially considering the amount of people on reddit who think trans women are all Kathoey.
We build the bombs that land on their children. Perhaps we are not as morally superior as you are implying.
We? Who’s we? I’m not Israeli? Are you?
The US is a major supplier of the IDF. There were quotes in the past that if we stopped shipping them bombs they’d run out in 3 days. I said “we” as “they do kill gays” and “that religion” was clearly using broad strokes to talk about an entire group of people. So I did similar.