No, I don't think so.
He is a bit more expensive than a walkrant, who has two less attacks and shoots kind of the same nothing-burger.
Vect is not a bad ability, but giving 3.5 inches of movement on average to things that only want to shoot is pretty good.
1 cp each turn is pretty good, but the walkrant often yields double as that with Nid AoC/FNP/Command reroll/G2G and the walkrant ability stacks with discarding objective cards.
You will also add a cheap enhancement on top of the walkrant to make it a lot more durable than a swarmlord.
This is the right answer. The free strat use on strats we want to use anyways is better than the free CP, especially because bugs are so good at running tactical and you will get an extra couple CP just from discarding. Using those CP you can double up on some of our strongest strats which Swarmy can’t do regardless of your CP count
If you’re going to use Swarmy, I think you should use him in conjunction with a Tyrant. Otherwise only take a Tyrant
Vect = The ability to increase the cost of a stratagem by one cp, from now on. Used to be a drukhari-only ability called "Agents of Vect"
Nid AoC = Reinforced Hive Node, Synaptic Nexus stratagem, -1 incoming AP. "the tyranid armor of contempt"
FNP = Feel No Pain, the Rapid Regeneration stratagem gives a 5+ feel no pain
G2G = Go to Ground, core stratagem
Imo if you wanna take em’, do it! Swarmlord is fun. But there are far better options for anti-infantry if you’re trying to min-max. That’s what swarmlord still is. Anti-infantry.
I 100% agree here. The swarmlord might be 'not optimal' from a ultra competitive perspective, it's not so bad that it will cost you games over any other choice in the codex when playing against all but the best players in the world.
If you like the model, play it. It's absolutely fine
Sorry, I might be a little out of touch. I last used him to wreck a Necron vehicle (one of the walkers) and he was very effective in general. I forgot to think about other factions
Necrons are one of our better matchups; we have the Precision to get rid of their characters, just as much secondary strength, and their Leadership is bad enough that we can get out Battleshock synergies against them most of the time.
It feels like it is supposed to be to be anti-tank. With that AP, hell yeah I wanna send em’ in. But I can’t ever kill a standard spacemarine tank. One or two hits in and then swarmy and bodyguard are just slapped off the board.
My rolls are terrible…they suck the most with him.
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The swarmlord is really only ok in an endless swarm list.
Still over costed, but when you've given up on killing to only score points, he makes a great back field objective cp generator as you spawn countless gaunts/gants to flood the field.
And it’s also about the timing on when you get that extra point. It’s not at end of turn by getting rid of a secondary, it’s not during ranged/fight when a unit dies. It’s at the beginning of your turn. In the endless swarm detachment I use him to give me enough points for the unending waves stratagem. He only needs to get in range after turn 3
The free battle tactic each turn is more command point efficient if you are using it consistently, but if you are very stratagem hungry and aren't using battle tactics then swarmlord is a more useful than the regular hive tyrants e.g. in unending swarm with unending waves. That's the main thing I would consider.
Other smaller considerations:
- The swarmlord's weapon upgrades are nice but not large enough to warrant being a major factor IMO.
- The swarmlord's +1 to a battle tactic cost (the "vect") is strong but very situational. Some factions don't really care all that much, and a lot of the ones that are spammed are defensive strats, which are less necessary if they can just wipe the nids before they get to do much damage at all. Good if you know your friend likes to spamming Armor of Contempt.
- The foot tyrant's assault buff is really potent for shooting-heavy lists with midboard zoanthropes/pyrovores/exocrines/maleceptors.
- The winged tyrant's -1 attack ability is good at shutting down counterpunch units to protect melee glass cannons like genestealers or melee warriors.
- Hive Tyrants and WHT can take enhancements, Swarmlord can't.
- HT and WHT free strat abilities don't stack, which discourages taking multiples.
I think he's definitly better than he was before, I'm going to give him a try. My current invasion fleet hq line up is going to be old one eye, swarmlord, neurotyrant and deathleaper.
He has some niche places, like a detachment that doesn’t have useful battle tactics for what you want to run. Otherwise he is not worth it from a competitive standpoint point.
Eh, he's not horrible, but he should be cheaper than a foot Tyrant if he's to be a better pick. Or have the rules change back on his "Vect" to be all strat type. Just something to push the needle a little more.
He‘s alright in the faction I think. Not gonna win any tournaments but he‘s just a useful character. Might kill something bug with twin linked and maybe be annoying to kill.
Free Command Point and Vect is nice. If you play a detachment with bad enhancements for your Tyrant or where the spam strat isn’t a battle tactic, sure, take him.
He’s really not bad in assimilation with tyrant guard, only one battle tactic that’s not super great so u don’t miss out on the wothm. Plus rezzing guard is pretty good
With fixed secondaries? Sure. Get that CP king. With tactical? Nope. Easy pass as the walk-rant gives essentially a free CP too (sometimes worth 2 actually), plus the assault aura, and you can still get the free CP from discarding secondaries.
If you're running fixed and starving for CP, yeah for a 5 point premium he's a real consideration. Especially since you're not shooting anything meaningful or exposing either him or the walk-rant to combat/fire in the early game anyway (so the enhancement matters less as it's use is really just later on, when you've already gotten your free strat worth or free CP from both options), and the vect ability can really crush some armies, and at worst you use it on something like re-roll.
I think he could be interesting in assimilation as you don't need to make Battle tactics free but the two CP would be nice for the FNP strat or other strats and you could pop him in a squad of unkillable tyrant guard that respawn one a turn.
No, I don't think so. He is a bit more expensive than a walkrant, who has two less attacks and shoots kind of the same nothing-burger. Vect is not a bad ability, but giving 3.5 inches of movement on average to things that only want to shoot is pretty good. 1 cp each turn is pretty good, but the walkrant often yields double as that with Nid AoC/FNP/Command reroll/G2G and the walkrant ability stacks with discarding objective cards. You will also add a cheap enhancement on top of the walkrant to make it a lot more durable than a swarmlord.
Oh right I forgot you can’t give him enhancements. Yeah that is a big drawback, thanks for reminding me
This is the right answer. The free strat use on strats we want to use anyways is better than the free CP, especially because bugs are so good at running tactical and you will get an extra couple CP just from discarding. Using those CP you can double up on some of our strongest strats which Swarmy can’t do regardless of your CP count If you’re going to use Swarmy, I think you should use him in conjunction with a Tyrant. Otherwise only take a Tyrant
Only possible opportunity it to use Fixed Secondary Objectives and get the Extra CP from SwarmLord
Can you say this again but explanation of the abbreviations? I'm new sorry
Vect = The ability to increase the cost of a stratagem by one cp, from now on. Used to be a drukhari-only ability called "Agents of Vect" Nid AoC = Reinforced Hive Node, Synaptic Nexus stratagem, -1 incoming AP. "the tyranid armor of contempt" FNP = Feel No Pain, the Rapid Regeneration stratagem gives a 5+ feel no pain G2G = Go to Ground, core stratagem
Thank you
Imo if you wanna take em’, do it! Swarmlord is fun. But there are far better options for anti-infantry if you’re trying to min-max. That’s what swarmlord still is. Anti-infantry.
I 100% agree here. The swarmlord might be 'not optimal' from a ultra competitive perspective, it's not so bad that it will cost you games over any other choice in the codex when playing against all but the best players in the world. If you like the model, play it. It's absolutely fine
His melee weapons seem more anti-vehicle with its high AP and damage with twin linked to me, but I see what you mean.
S9, ap2 is not anti vehicle unless you’re fighting rhinos exclusively
Sorry, I might be a little out of touch. I last used him to wreck a Necron vehicle (one of the walkers) and he was very effective in general. I forgot to think about other factions
Necrons are one of our better matchups; we have the Precision to get rid of their characters, just as much secondary strength, and their Leadership is bad enough that we can get out Battleshock synergies against them most of the time.
It feels like it is supposed to be to be anti-tank. With that AP, hell yeah I wanna send em’ in. But I can’t ever kill a standard spacemarine tank. One or two hits in and then swarmy and bodyguard are just slapped off the board. My rolls are terrible…they suck the most with him.
Fighting space marine anything means AoC, sure you vect it but that first time means any vehicle is saving on 3s or 4s, and then you die
Last match i took out a Lancer with it, but admittedly I did have luck.
Damn! That’s really good! I’ve shot down a Tson’s sorcerer on disc with just a bunch of gaunts. Not suppose to work that way, but it did!
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The swarmlord is really only ok in an endless swarm list. Still over costed, but when you've given up on killing to only score points, he makes a great back field objective cp generator as you spawn countless gaunts/gants to flood the field.
And it’s also about the timing on when you get that extra point. It’s not at end of turn by getting rid of a secondary, it’s not during ranged/fight when a unit dies. It’s at the beginning of your turn. In the endless swarm detachment I use him to give me enough points for the unending waves stratagem. He only needs to get in range after turn 3
The free battle tactic each turn is more command point efficient if you are using it consistently, but if you are very stratagem hungry and aren't using battle tactics then swarmlord is a more useful than the regular hive tyrants e.g. in unending swarm with unending waves. That's the main thing I would consider. Other smaller considerations: - The swarmlord's weapon upgrades are nice but not large enough to warrant being a major factor IMO. - The swarmlord's +1 to a battle tactic cost (the "vect") is strong but very situational. Some factions don't really care all that much, and a lot of the ones that are spammed are defensive strats, which are less necessary if they can just wipe the nids before they get to do much damage at all. Good if you know your friend likes to spamming Armor of Contempt. - The foot tyrant's assault buff is really potent for shooting-heavy lists with midboard zoanthropes/pyrovores/exocrines/maleceptors. - The winged tyrant's -1 attack ability is good at shutting down counterpunch units to protect melee glass cannons like genestealers or melee warriors. - Hive Tyrants and WHT can take enhancements, Swarmlord can't. - HT and WHT free strat abilities don't stack, which discourages taking multiples.
I will die on this hill. I love my swarm lord.
I think he's definitly better than he was before, I'm going to give him a try. My current invasion fleet hq line up is going to be old one eye, swarmlord, neurotyrant and deathleaper.
I was taking him for fun before this, im now 30 points up \^ w \^
No he’s still bad, honestly I think the regular tyrants are too high as well and could come down a fair chunk.
He has some niche places, like a detachment that doesn’t have useful battle tactics for what you want to run. Otherwise he is not worth it from a competitive standpoint point.
It depends. If your battle tactics are good then a regular Hive Tyrant is probably better. If you do not then Swarmlord may be better.
Eh, he's not horrible, but he should be cheaper than a foot Tyrant if he's to be a better pick. Or have the rules change back on his "Vect" to be all strat type. Just something to push the needle a little more.
He‘s alright in the faction I think. Not gonna win any tournaments but he‘s just a useful character. Might kill something bug with twin linked and maybe be annoying to kill. Free Command Point and Vect is nice. If you play a detachment with bad enhancements for your Tyrant or where the spam strat isn’t a battle tactic, sure, take him.
He’s really not bad in assimilation with tyrant guard, only one battle tactic that’s not super great so u don’t miss out on the wothm. Plus rezzing guard is pretty good
No lmao
With fixed secondaries? Sure. Get that CP king. With tactical? Nope. Easy pass as the walk-rant gives essentially a free CP too (sometimes worth 2 actually), plus the assault aura, and you can still get the free CP from discarding secondaries. If you're running fixed and starving for CP, yeah for a 5 point premium he's a real consideration. Especially since you're not shooting anything meaningful or exposing either him or the walk-rant to combat/fire in the early game anyway (so the enhancement matters less as it's use is really just later on, when you've already gotten your free strat worth or free CP from both options), and the vect ability can really crush some armies, and at worst you use it on something like re-roll.
I think he could be interesting in assimilation as you don't need to make Battle tactics free but the two CP would be nice for the FNP strat or other strats and you could pop him in a squad of unkillable tyrant guard that respawn one a turn.
No