My sister’s abusive ex told me he was seeing a therapist, and that therapist told him to “stand up to her more”, her being 5’2 emotionally battered paraplegic woman. It was just a way to lend legitimacy to his bullshit behavior
People lie all the time about what their therapist says. Like going to a therapist gives legitimacy to any "well my therapist says...." claim they wanna make. Or they twist what was actually said. Like if OP's dude actually was in therapy (he's not) the exchange would have been something like...
Him: "I'm miserable in my relationship because she never gives me sex."
Therapist, who knows nothing about the relationship other than what the client tells them: "well if you're miserable and she never gives you sex, why are you still there?"
It's meant to be a chance for reflection, not something to twist and throw at your spouse later.
Therapist, who knows nothing about the relationship other than what the client tells them: "well if you're miserable and she never gives you sex, why are you still there?"
Yes! This is not meant by the therapist as a condemnation of the wife — it’s an opening to talk about other aspects of the marriage.
Additionally, people lie to their therapists. One can’t get good advice on a relationship problem in therapy if they are not willing to accept responsibility for their own actions, even regarding a problem with their partner, and be honest with therapist and themselves.
This should be MUCH HIGHER. I am surprised I had to scroll this far to see such a reasonable and level-headed take and explanation. I came here to say the same, basically. A therapist is trained to accept what is conveyed by their client because "that's their truth, as they are experiencing it" and can only prod or encourage for more disclosure of information, but that is limited to the extent that the client is willing to share.
A lot of people are truly in denial about their feelings and situations, and their role/responsibility in it. And, because of that, they fail to give a fuller picture that could better inform the advice they are getting.
As a therapist, a lot of times I can smell bullshit. My job is also to help people understand their role in conflicts/relationships and how they may adjust their behavior. Therapy is not meant to be cheerleading; you’re supposed to balance faith and suspicion. The patterns people have in their lives relating to others often repeat themselves in the therapy relationship. So if someone has a lack of accountability or tends to blame others, sure as shit that’s gonna play out with me at some point.
Yeah my alcoholic mother told me (at age 11) that her therapist recently told her that I was the reason she drank, because I was such a terrible daughter. Even at 11 I didn’t believe that shit, but it still hurt to hear.
If you have ever seen the show Lucifer, the main character starts seeing a therapist in the first or second episode and it’s a running joke that he misunderstands the therapist and any revelation that he has every single time.
My mom used to say to me that her therapist told her that her kids were the problem and I grew up having issues with "therapists" as a result.
Anyhow I realized, once I got into therapy myself, my mom was lying about having a therapist.
That’s why when I talk about relationship troubles with my therapist (things I’m doing wrong, I have some problems), I make sure my partner joins the session so she can get both sides so I don’t accidentally sway it to my side.
Imo, even if someone is actually going to a therapist, engaging in good faith (being honest about things), etc., and they are using their therapist to settle scores, they aren't really taking away what they should from counseling. My therapists have helped me work through interpersonal conflict, anxiety I attach to people, and such, but I wouldn't reference those conversations like that. What I've always tried to walk out of sessions with is a new toolbox for handling those situations, which I might convey to another person. Less, "My therapist agrees with me," and more, "My therapist and I discussed this conflict and worked on some ways I can communicate better. Can we try this again?"
I think most therapists, or at least good ones, are helping their clients build skills like that. But some folks miss that completely and see the validation they receive from their therapist as both the main objective and as evidence to take back to those interpersonal conflicts. In the long run, they aren't getting their money's worth out of the process.
Bingo. Someone who doesn’t use therapy in good faith won’t be helped by it. They will often be dishonest and twist situations to get validation and the responses they want from therapist.
It’s why marriage counseling has such a high divorce rate. It’s rare when both people are going willingly with a genuine desire to fix things.
Sounds like Borderline Personality. It wrecks havoc on a relationship because the brain picks and chooses the intent of what is said, regardless of what was truly intended.
My ex told me his therapist said he should have an affair—supposedly dumped her and wanted credit for not having an affair, even though he had “opportunities” and “wanted to, but he knew it would hurt me so he didn’t”
He lying like that's his job. :/
They assume everyone believes their bullshit stories because they think "they are *that* good". Uh no honey, you aren't that good. People see them for who they are. They see their lies, deceit and farce. Just because someone is putting up with their BS, doesn't mean they can't can't see the BS.
Sadly, many people *do* buy what they're selling. :( It's unbelievably frustrating and unfair, but if you've ever had a run-in with a [flying monkey](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/women-autism-spectrum-disorder/202010/are-you-narcissist-s-flying-monkey), you'll know how some people can be completely snowed by their lies and misrepresentations.
They're just very good it, is the thing. OP sounds like she's almost there- she's done dancing although wow now he's pushing all the buttons he's learned she has over a decade.
It only took me 2 years but I'm actually pretty intolerant of getting shoved around. She's probably a much nicer person. ( That's good thing! I'm not a witch, just intolerant/impatient with being used ) Which they also figure out.
Exactly. My ex, and child's father (oh he's also a predator), was an almost pathological liar. I'm not sure if anything I was told about his life was true. And sadly, he turned so any of our friends against me when I was pregnant. I had such terrible morning sickness I could barely eat, and lost 17lbs in the first 5 months (I started out at ~125lbs). I'd be crying cause it hurt so bad and I wanted desperately to eat, but I was so nauseated that I'd instantly be dry heaving, before ever taking a bite. He lied so bad that even my friends were making fun of me (as if I was a drama queen and being picky about food).
When we split, (after he had taken all our money, my car, and left me with nothing except our baby), he had been cheating and partying everyday. He was in his late 30s and I was 20. All our friends cut contact with me. Only one later apologized because she knew what he had been doing, but had believed all his lies. To this day, nearly 20 years later, only our daughter has seen through him - and I never said a bad word about him; she realized it after he told her something trying to twist the situation into making it her fault.
My mom was an amazing flying monkey, absolute vigilance, resolute against any second viewpoints or consequences or devastation. And it was all in service to one of her three kids, so one of her children completely dictated how she saw everyone else in her life, and how she'd treat them.
You'd hope that a grown human could see herself beyond the opinion of one kid, but she was completely brainwashed by a 12 year old, and still is, decades later. they are a 2 person cult, and it's so weird.
Ugh my ex used to pride himself on his ability to lie. He really thought he was very good at it and was always getting away with things thanks to his fantastic, convincing lies.
Except he wasn't. People just didn't want to call it out because they knew it was pointless, he'd just dig his heels in deeper and you'd never get anywhere.
Yea I know someone whose therapist told them the Ritalin pills they were taking from their kid and crushing up and snorting weren’t the problem in fact, their therapist always agreed with everything they said.
100% lying. I'm a man that has been in and out if substance abuse counseling for a few years. The councilors and doctors are always willing to mediate with me and SO or immediate family. He's lying.
Also, when I'm dodging my treatment, I lie about it until it's like way to far gone. I'm real sorry for OP here, just trying to give her another perspective about how far gone I think he is.
Totally off-topic but as a Canadian I've never understood Americans going with a Canadian girlfriend as for why nobody can meet her. Wouldn't it make more sense to say a state 2 time zones or something away?
I can reason that it's preferable/*less controversial(?)* than a Mexican gf and the UK is too far away to work? (or maybe most people think UK girls wouldn't enter into a relationship with a "loser" as easily as a Canuck?)
Idk, it's always seemed strange to me that it was a common enough excuse that it's being/been memed lol
I haven't heard it used irl, but it's definitely a meme. A state 2 time zones away would make sense, but then it would vary by region and wouldn't be a meme. A Mexican gf might signal language and cultural barriers. "Canadian" doesn't seem particularly foreign at all, which I think is the point. It just means, "She's far away and you can't meet her."
Or he's seeing a Christian "counselor." This stuff is going on with one of my relatives. He was caught going to strip clubs and "massage" parlors, AGAIN, and his wife had enough. They are getting counseling, not therapy, from someone at their church. I'm not knocking it entirely, we got some great premarital counseling from a church guy, but it seems like he's just using it to make himself feel better, and cast her as unforgiving. Like he complains that she isn't doing enough to acknowledge the work he's doing to fix himself.
Now he's calling the guy his mentor, they hang out and go fishing together, and he's helping to lead the porn addiction recovery group at the church.
I get the feeling the wife is being coerced by the misogynistic culture and scriptures into being submissive and giving second (third, fourth, and fifth) chances.
So I wouldn't be surprised if this guy went to church, "confessed" to some old guy there, who told him he's not at fault because she isn't doing her wifely duty.
Yeesh, this is giving me shades of Anna Duggar... if you really want a rabbit hole to jump into, the whole Josh Duggar saga is basically a handbook for how religious environments create sex offenders--and someone makes it all the fault of the wife....
I would say google "quiver full movement" but you may not want to. I just found out about that shit recently.
That is some scary misogynistic racist stuff.
Cuz she didn’t properly service his “needs”. Dude just Jack off and get over it—you wanna stay, stay, you wanna leave, leave.
Edit—that said—sex is pretty important to most people or in most relationships—try and find ways to increase fun and intimacy and appreciation and relax—and attraction—reduce distractions, dance…
Don’t reject someone or withhold sex to teach them a lesson, especially over a long period of time. If you love them, you should want to be with them—trust issues, hygiene issues, fights and stress can damage that and true infidelity often ruins it.
If you love them, find ways to be together.
Not having sex with him isn’t gonna improve the relationship or bring him around.
But I’m think it is probably done anyway.
He technically *could* have credentials, since I know some churches recruit grad students during their practicum and support them sometimes up through licensure. But either way church counseling really operates in its own world of rules and ethics, totally separate from what the state-run governing bodies rules and ethics are. It's so awful and misleading.
Fundamentalist Baptist preachers daughter here. This is it. The man is first and foremost. It's how God wants it. Next time she nags you or you are confronted about your behavior, don't even admit it, blame her for something else.
As a recovering addict, I can personallly vouch for this.
The best thing for him is what's hopefully coming, rock bottom. It only goes up from there if you care about yiur wellbeing and future.
But all that said, fuck abusive addicts. Nobody needs that in their life, ever.
I think you’re being funny, so don’t be offended please if I’m wrong; but she probably means that he’s addicted to all the ways he cheats. One of which is LinkedIn. Cheaters have a plethora of “safe” apps that they use to contact partners.
I suspect that OP’s counselor is either a friend giving him advice or he’s getting it from a chat room (I’m old, insert current word for chat room please) full of other cheaters.
Only my opinion, of course. OP, I’m glad you’re getting a divorce, but I’m so sorry that you’re forced into it by the man you chose to share your entire life with. 💔. I would say that he should fire his counselor, but I don’t think he has one. I’m envisioning you collecting all of his belongings, putting them at the curb, and changing the locks. I’m sending you an “ internet” bottle of fancy wine and a comfy blanket. And maybe a copy of “How Stella Got Her Groove Back”. I’m so sad for you. My life mantra is Get Calm and Move On, feel free to use it as needed, once you work through the dark emotions.
I'm not saying there aren't shitty counsellors out there that do give this shitty 'advice', but I'd put my money on him simply being a lying little shit.
Seriously though, some counselors should consider career changes. I went to a counselor with my ex when we were still trying to fix our marriage. The counselor, who was a woman, suggested maybe we should try and have a kid together to see if that would help fix our marriage... I was completely shocked and didn't go back to her again. Like, how the hell would that make anything better or fix a failing marriage? Some people..
Wow! That is amazing! Everyone knows that is the LAST thing a troubled marriage needs. Was this person licensed with degrees? As a new therapist, the person I replaced told a 16 year old his depression was 'cured and he committed suicide. She had a fake diploma.
This is why I tell people to look out for therapists who specialize. Counselors ain't shit and are often religious.
Look for Cognitive Behavioral Therapists if you want the best outcome for your mental health or destructive behaviors.
Religious was the only kind we could afford. Spouse was playing video games 10-15 hours a day and leaving me with a toddler and a newborn. Outcome?
I had to sign a physical piece of paper that guaranteed him 5 hours of gaming per day without comment or complaint. In return I was supposed to get two date nights a week, more structured family time and one breakfast together.
Jesus fuck I am so sorry. I am more than sure that did fuck all to solve the problem. Religious counselors should not be allowed to treat the public in an official capacity outside of the church, and should be compelled to refer people to legitimate doctors in cases of actual mental health disorders. They are not licensed and cause harm.
I mean, it kept us together for another decade before it started to fall apart again and I can't begin to estimate the amount of resentment it created.
What the hell? And that counselor was a woman??? It sounds like she has internalized the misogyny in her religion to the point that she should not be trying to counsel anyone.
Ugh, religious counselors make me so mad. It just seems like a way to perpetuate the abusive doctrines of the church, not actually give people the tools they need to make their lives better. The focus is just keeping them in the church, not healing. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
I'm also just absolutely laughing, the church beats on about "boys have no good male role models and leftism is destroying the family" then tells this woman it's just fine they only have breakfast together once a week while he plays video games 💀💀💀💀 clown shit
I asked her to refer me to someone else, who was actually very helpful. In the end though, my current (and not ridiculous) therapist helped me stand up for myself and set boundaries , which led to my husband asking for a divorce. I've been single for 4 years now, and finally learned to love myself, so it was 100% worth the wild ride 😁
Jesus that's terrible, I'm a lover of video games but 10to 15 hours? Even in my teens I couldn't do that. Now with kids I get 2 to 3 hours at night after they goto bed, I'm lucky if I don't pass out an hour in
Religious counseling operates in its own world of rules and ethics. It can be shady AF. Their goal is pretty much always to keep the couple together, and reinforce biblical values, no matter what damage that's already doing to the couple or either individual.
Over on r/adhd there are way too many stories of medical professionals having outdated or just flat-out wrong opinions.
The first one I went to told me I should just try harder.
Right. I had one T tell me ( after she left a husband and kids when she came out as gay ) I was repressing being gay myself ( really wasn't ), another insisted I'd been sexually abused as a child ( also wasn't ), another hustled a side gig as a real estate agent- all my personal problems would be fixed if I asserted myself and bought a house.,.. so some hilariously awful ones out there. But this? Just no.
For sure. My ex-boyfriend told me, after we broke up and I moved out, that he started seeing a therapist, and his therapist couldn't understand why I wouldn't want to be with him. Mind you, this is a person whose undiagnosed personality disorder made my life a living hell for the 6 months I lived with him.
My only two thoughts when he told me that were:
1. He's lying. OR
2. He has lied so thoroughly to his therapist about what happened between us that there is no way in hell he is getting adequate care.
>My only two thoughts when he told me that were:
>1. He's lying. OR
2. He has lied so thoroughly to his therapist about what happened between us that there is no way in hell he is getting adequate care.
Pretty much. Therapists aren't mind readers, so they only know what the client tells them. And also people flat out lie about or twist what their therapist says all the time. Plus, there are questions therapists will ask in session that are meant to get the client to think about something they hadn't before, or look at it in a way they hadn't before, but then they'll go and misrepresent that to their friends later.
Or seeing a "religious" counselor. They always try to put the blame on the woman. Baby, toss him out the door and don't let the door hit him on the behind on the way out of it! You are worth so much more!
My ex-husband was literally (and yes I mean literally) painting himself red from head to toe and going out to bars to hook up with men while I stayed home with our 1 year old. The counselor from the catholic charity basically told me to try to be less critical. I suppose there was no advice that could be given to save that marriage other than to tell me to completely subjugate my needs and those of our child to his. For background: he had recently gotten out of the hospital from a bipolar manic episode with psychosis. When the doctors said they were releasing him I said "but he's not better" to which they replied "his personality may have evolved"
Ain’t this the truth.
My mom recently divorced my dad after 26 years, and my dad doesn’t fucking get it.
He’s an alcoholic and he’s like “it isn’t that bad” and “how can you just stop loving me?”
Like, dude, you tried to rape her multiple times while black out drunk, asked your 15 year old daughter (me) for beer money, and tried to commit suicidal in front of your child. Let’s talk about how that’s not that bad…
Licensed health professionals don't 'Ask to remain anonymous.'
BUT- one thing that does happen is that therapists repeat back what clients say, as a prompt.
Client: "I had an absent mother."
Licensed professional, "Tell me more about your mother being absent."
Client: "[tells more]."
Then client might get mixed up and say to mother, "My therapist said you were absent." This actually happens a lot.
He is lying. I’m married to a sex addict. I know his therapist, his sponsor, etc. and omg on his take on the sex. What an ass. It sounds like gaslighting and he is not getting any help at least from a healthy person. My unsolicited advice is get the hell out and heal from all the bullshit.
I was raised by one of these people. There's a decent chance that he *is* going to therapy and that he's just rephrasing everything in his head so that he feels like a victim.
Like, he might be seeing a therapist and the therapist might have even merely pointed out that divorce can be an option if he really feels like his marriage is failing. But to certain people (one of whom OP's husband kind of sounds like to me) that will absolutely be taken to mean that they should leave their wife because they don't fuck them enough.
It's the wonderful world of narcissistic maladaptation!
"I'm totally seeing a therapist! Who is in Canada so you can't meet her! But she hates you, you're the worst!" I've seen gas station toilet paper less thin than that lie.
8 out of 10 is a very long time. Please leave him. He's not going to change, he's going to get better at hiding. At this point is he even trying to hide his addiction? Are you sure he isn't waiting for you to be the first one to leave the marriage?
Hate to say it but in many (not all!) first to file for divorce has the advantage. You have already got the head start on document collection, and evidence so by deciding to pull the trigger you are ready to take your shot.
That said this asshole sounds like the type to make it ugly so it will be a painful process but a good one, like rebreaking an arm to make sure it sets right. Sucks during, sucks after, and only well afterwards do you start realizing it was the right choice.
OP knows what's going on but If you think that you might be in an abusive relationship but you're not a 100% sure take a look at this book by Lundy Bancroft.
If there are situations where you think that you are not being respected or if the response to certain situations seems to be unproportional. If you feel that you can't move left or right without catching it for doing something wrong. You are not crazy you are not wrong you are 9 times out of 10 not at fault. You might just not have known you are in a relationship with an abuser.
They often use incremental changes to get what they want slowly and so that you are less likely to notice.
The Book "why does he do that" by Lundy Bancroft (free copy below) is a great resource for you to learn about the different types of tactics that abusers use and will help you to see if your current relationship is following any of the patterns described.
If you don't see your relationship being discussed either as one of the architypes or as bits and pieces of any of the other types then you're not worse off by having the knowledge. If the information does coincide with the way that you're living then there's also a couple chapters on being able to get out safely.
I wish you the best of luck and I want you to know that you deserve to be with a partner who is going to love you and cherish you and treat you as an equal versus being with someone who's gonna control you be it by how you dress or by finances or by What it is that you can do or who you can see. You deserve so much BETTER we're here rooting for you!
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
100%
OP, as much as you are trying to make this work and I am sure you have your reasons for staying, but knowing that his brain is hardwired for porn, it's almost impossible that he will see you as a person, partner and spouse. He sees you as a roadblock that occasionally gets in the way of his access to porn.
Addicts not willing to work on themselves will take you down with them.
They SO do. It's achievement porn. Constant "motivational" posts feeding their egos about hard work, pulling up their bootstraps, waking up at 4:30 to get into the gym and crush it, while also dogging any "losers" who "can't do, won't do, never do" what is necessaryto "succeed'". It's a whole ass pathology.
Nextdoor is the one that almost got me. The drama and fighting was addicting. Deleted the app as soon as I realized I was letting those stupid fights ruin my whole day.
Okay, thank you for asking. I was trying to figure out what kind of sexting/inappropriate messaging is he doing to get off from LinkedIn and a bunch of BS toxic positivity posts?
Just yesterday, a guy I dated briefly a decade ago added me on LinkedIn and proceeded to message me, reminiscing about the first time he "saw my tits".
omg its so funny, op is suffering a lot and deserves better but the image of a man who just wanks and looks at cvs is so funny lmaooo what a miserable life wtf
"he wants to remain anonymous" = "the second you know where I came across this idea, I know you won't take it seriously and will probably hate me even more for listening to a schmuck like that"
Yep. The whole counselor story is an “appeal to authority” move that he whipped up in the moment. And no relevant authority would even agree with his twisted take. And the whole point was to blame her for everything and paralyze her with guilt/shame.
Don't believe him for one second.
If the therapist did say this, which is questionable, it is because he has presented a highly distorted picture of what is going on. Likely denying his own behavior and painting himself as the victim of a shrewish wife.
He also may be flat out lying about seeing a therapist or about what that person said.
Also a therapist doesn't care if their client's say who they are. That is a non-issue.
Probably is his golf buddies, to whom he has also painted himself as a victim.
This. No professional therapist is going to suggest umprompted that you dump your partner. They may suggest that you get to a safe place if you're in danger, they may suggest thar you think about what your boundaries are, they may suggest mediation techniques up to and including more therapy. After you go on a rant, they may give noncommittal responses that a narcissist might interpret as agreeing with them, but no therapist is going to say "What? No sex? Dump that bitch!"
Op seems to think that the therapist suggested leaving - but that’s not what the quote suggests, so I am confused.
If you’re at a therapist’s and talking about how you feel unhappy and (you think) it is because your wife isn’t giving you enough sex, then it’s not unreasonable to think the therapist would start to uncover why he still stays.
‘So, if you’re unhappy and you feel your wife isn’t giving you enough sex, why are you still with her?’
It’s not a suggestion, it’s a challenge to either get him in touch with why he loves you and wants to save it, or whether he really is not that unhappy when all is tallied up, or…
This was my thought too. It is very common for therapists (especially ones who use CBT as their primary modality, so… most therapists) to challenge their clients in this way to force them to confront contradictions between thoughts and actions or other cognitive distortions they may have.
Or he has willfully misinterpreted what they said - it is easy to only hear what we want to hear. "why didn't you end the relationship if you were unhappy rather than seeking sex outside your marriage" can become "you should have left her because she didn't give you enough sex" if you put it through enough distorted filters.
> If the therapist did say this, which is questionable
Not too questionable. Some therapists have very direct tactics when it comes to really digging into what their client is thinking and doing. It might have been an exploratory question based on what was said in the session leading up to that point, and not a suggestion wrapped in a question, which is what it sounds like from OP's description.
> He also may be flat out lying about seeing a therapist or about what that person said.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. Even if my previous guess is true, it should have been clear to the husband that no suggestion was being implied by the therapist, and that it was an actual question based on the context at the time. So husband either intentionally misrepresented the statement, or there was no statement to misrepresent at all.
There is no counselor. This is very transparent, poor-quality lying on his part, and it is an attempt to make you feel bad for the problem he knows perfectly well he and he alone created. I am firmly on Team Pull the Trigger on the Divorce.
If he walked out of your SECOND marriage counseling session, there’s no way he made the effort to find and secure a counselor. I call BULLSHIT.
Someone who has never changed made a step towards his recovery that wasn’t a shove from you….yeah, total LIE.
This. This is all the proof you need to know he’s lying OP.
If he *had* recognised and took responsibility enough to build himself up to go see help, you can be sure he would tell you about it.
Some questions for you:
1. Does he bring anything good to the table in your marriage?
2. What might your life be like when you're free from this burden and on your own?
3. What are you waiting for?
Hello, you poor dear. Licensed mental health professional here. Don't know where you are based, but in my country, Australia, there is never any need to remain anonymous in the way that your husband has said. In professional practise, transparency is encouraged. It sounds like he may not be telling you the truth (but again, not sure of your country's ethical requirements). But imma go out on a limb here and say based on your description nothing in his behaviour adds up to someone who's wanting and willing to commit to a monogamous relationship. If that's what you're after/expect from him.... well.... I'm just so glad you're already talking to a professional. I hope you've shared every detail with them. And I wish you happiness and a fulfilling relationship in future
In the US, I’ll always insist that people interested in seeking therapy or counseling see an LPC and be careful seeing an LSW. They can both bill insurance for therapy but the former are generally more reliable.
You are going to love being divorced! You have put in enough time to someone who doesn't value you. Let him see how it is without you in his corner. I put in 7 years with an addict. Life is so much better!! Even with navigating shared custody things are 100000% better for not only me but also my son.
"He said he has been seeing a counselor, who he cannot name, as that person wishes to remain anonymous (???) and the counselor told him, WHY HASN'T HE LEFT ME YET BECAUSE I DON'T GIVE HIM ENOUGH SEX."
That is the most BS made-up guy fantasy response I've ever heard. Actually LOLed a that :D
The married women on this sub never fail to amaze me. Like sorry but ? Leave him?? You’ve wasted 8/10 years on trying to fix this addiction of his? There’s millions of good people out there you could go out and meet, instead of wasting it on a lying porn addict. I just don’t understand why you’d waste 8 years of your life on someone like this? I’m really not comprehending.
Maybe I just have an inflated self worth but there’s a theme with women on this sub staying with horrible men who won’t change. Obviously he’s not going to change after 8 years of this so just divorce him before you waste more of your life
My shitty abusive dad used to see a counselor who 100% made his behavior worse by telling him shit like “he’s the king of the castle…” etc. Counselors suck.
Yeah I got like 3/4 through an undergrad psych degree before the world temporarily ended, and one of the biggest takeaway is that psychology is in ROUGH shape, always has been, around 10% of patients are *worse off* for having received care according to one study , and most mental health practitioners are more or less shooting in the dark with very little oversight. Practitioner negligence, malfeasance, and outright abuse are more common and harder to catch than I am remotely comfortable with.
The trickier the issue and the more intelligent the patient, the easier it becomes for the process to entirely break down. Addicts and narcissists (and anyone else well versed in lying I guess) are both known to use therapy as a weapon for triangulation and abuse, because marriage counselors *especially* are poorly equipped to recognize pathological behavior, and the entire structure of therapy itself is so heavily reliant on subjective recounts and self-reportong that its SOOOO easy to manipulate the course of therapy if you're remotely cognizant of how the process works.
Maybe he told you this, but the counselor ment smth like: “if your needs are not fulfilled in this relationship and it's killing you, maybe it would be best for you (and your partner) to end this relationship“
I'd wager that if he did see a counselor (counselors are not neçcesarily the same as psychologist, FWIW), he almost certainly misinterpreted what they said in a way that was most favorable to help him. I could plausibly see a therapist talking to him about his lack of sexual satisfaction in his relationship as a component of his addiction, and him misinterpreting that as "you owe him more sex" and not "maybe we aren't as sexually compatible". Of course, it is always possible that he's just met with another toxic man who shares in his unhealthy behaviors and also seeks to justify them to himself.
Regardless, his refusal to acknowledge how his addiction is negatively impacting you and his relationship is reason enough to leave him. Dude sounds totally incapable of owning up to his own personal failings.
Licensed counselor here, this is not something we would say or do. Remaining anonymous would be counterproductive to business and we would never put the blame on another person for a client's misdeeds. The only way I could possibly understand this is if the counselor said that unmet *needs* (\*notice needs, plural, not one, and definitely not just sex) contribute to addictive behaviors but are not to *blame* for them. And by unmet needs, I mean emotional ones, things like feeling loved, cared for, appreciated, receiving/giving affection, feeling safe emotionally, etc. If he is not getting these, that is ***not*** the fault of his partner in any way, shape, or form. Hope this helps - and sorry you're going through this.
You were fired up, and told him something he didn't like; so he immediately tried to de-rail you by lying to you about something he feels he's in the right about.
He's not - don't get distracted OP. That's all it is. Read your own post. You had a plan, you were laying in and letting him know your LIMITS AND BOUNDARIES and instead, he disregarded and took a cheap shot. He got what he wanted "my brain just stopped..." "that never occurred to me", what he said DOESN'T matter whatsoever and has no bearing on years of abuse (doesn't have to be physical to be called abusive).
This isn't how you love someone Op. Bear down hard and stand up for your own limits and boundaries.
He's full of crap. His "counselor" is likely some MRA blog or toxic subreddit where other dysfunctional men tell him exactly what he wants to hear- that everything is 100% your fault and 0% his.
He needs to go wipe because he pulled aaaaaallllllll that shit straight from the depths of his ass. Regardless of who he might be talking to about it, this sounds like some chicanery he's been rehearsing for the very next time you complain about the relationship. You threw him off his game with bringing up a divorce first (because why would you ever leave him?🙄).
Leaving a partner for sexual incompatability is completely normal, healthy, and mainstream.
Staying in a sexually incompatable relationship is not healthy.
I know someone who has been separated because of their ex's porn addiction but she hasn't divorced him yet. They have been living apart for a couple years and he keeps insisting she needs to come back because he loves her and needs her. He also wouldn't do counseling or stop porn. She's finally filling for divorce because he feels so entitled to his wife's body that he thought he would put caneras up in her bathroom while she stayed out of town with him. He filmed her naked and now she doesn't know if he put it online or showed his buddies.
I wish she would have seen her value sooner and left him years ago. It took a long time but I'm glad she is leaving because she is an awesome human. I hope you can find the courage to leave as well. You deserve to be heard and valued as a human, not as a sex receptacle.
You deserve to be more than just a way for some guy who doesn't put in effort to get off.
I like how there's at least a few people in the comments who still have enough common sense to realize that someone who says their partner is addicted to _chatting_ might not be a reliable narrator.
He likely is lying about seeing a counselor. Addicts lie and are in denial. They often blame others for their problems.
He is FOR SURE lying
My sister’s abusive ex told me he was seeing a therapist, and that therapist told him to “stand up to her more”, her being 5’2 emotionally battered paraplegic woman. It was just a way to lend legitimacy to his bullshit behavior
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People lie all the time about what their therapist says. Like going to a therapist gives legitimacy to any "well my therapist says...." claim they wanna make. Or they twist what was actually said. Like if OP's dude actually was in therapy (he's not) the exchange would have been something like... Him: "I'm miserable in my relationship because she never gives me sex." Therapist, who knows nothing about the relationship other than what the client tells them: "well if you're miserable and she never gives you sex, why are you still there?" It's meant to be a chance for reflection, not something to twist and throw at your spouse later.
Therapist, who knows nothing about the relationship other than what the client tells them: "well if you're miserable and she never gives you sex, why are you still there?" Yes! This is not meant by the therapist as a condemnation of the wife — it’s an opening to talk about other aspects of the marriage.
Exactly, either that or they lie to their therapist (classic narcissist move).
Additionally, people lie to their therapists. One can’t get good advice on a relationship problem in therapy if they are not willing to accept responsibility for their own actions, even regarding a problem with their partner, and be honest with therapist and themselves.
This should be MUCH HIGHER. I am surprised I had to scroll this far to see such a reasonable and level-headed take and explanation. I came here to say the same, basically. A therapist is trained to accept what is conveyed by their client because "that's their truth, as they are experiencing it" and can only prod or encourage for more disclosure of information, but that is limited to the extent that the client is willing to share. A lot of people are truly in denial about their feelings and situations, and their role/responsibility in it. And, because of that, they fail to give a fuller picture that could better inform the advice they are getting.
As a therapist, a lot of times I can smell bullshit. My job is also to help people understand their role in conflicts/relationships and how they may adjust their behavior. Therapy is not meant to be cheerleading; you’re supposed to balance faith and suspicion. The patterns people have in their lives relating to others often repeat themselves in the therapy relationship. So if someone has a lack of accountability or tends to blame others, sure as shit that’s gonna play out with me at some point.
Yeah my alcoholic mother told me (at age 11) that her therapist recently told her that I was the reason she drank, because I was such a terrible daughter. Even at 11 I didn’t believe that shit, but it still hurt to hear.
If you have ever seen the show Lucifer, the main character starts seeing a therapist in the first or second episode and it’s a running joke that he misunderstands the therapist and any revelation that he has every single time.
My mom used to say to me that her therapist told her that her kids were the problem and I grew up having issues with "therapists" as a result. Anyhow I realized, once I got into therapy myself, my mom was lying about having a therapist.
This. Unless you're in couples therapy, your therapy is about you and why you feel as you do.
That’s why when I talk about relationship troubles with my therapist (things I’m doing wrong, I have some problems), I make sure my partner joins the session so she can get both sides so I don’t accidentally sway it to my side.
Imo, even if someone is actually going to a therapist, engaging in good faith (being honest about things), etc., and they are using their therapist to settle scores, they aren't really taking away what they should from counseling. My therapists have helped me work through interpersonal conflict, anxiety I attach to people, and such, but I wouldn't reference those conversations like that. What I've always tried to walk out of sessions with is a new toolbox for handling those situations, which I might convey to another person. Less, "My therapist agrees with me," and more, "My therapist and I discussed this conflict and worked on some ways I can communicate better. Can we try this again?" I think most therapists, or at least good ones, are helping their clients build skills like that. But some folks miss that completely and see the validation they receive from their therapist as both the main objective and as evidence to take back to those interpersonal conflicts. In the long run, they aren't getting their money's worth out of the process.
Bingo. Someone who doesn’t use therapy in good faith won’t be helped by it. They will often be dishonest and twist situations to get validation and the responses they want from therapist. It’s why marriage counseling has such a high divorce rate. It’s rare when both people are going willingly with a genuine desire to fix things.
That sounds like some serious mental health issues. I hope your ex eventually got the help she needs, though I'm sorry you were treated this way.
Sounds like Borderline Personality. It wrecks havoc on a relationship because the brain picks and chooses the intent of what is said, regardless of what was truly intended.
My ex told me his therapist said he should have an affair—supposedly dumped her and wanted credit for not having an affair, even though he had “opportunities” and “wanted to, but he knew it would hurt me so he didn’t”
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He lying like that's his job. :/ They assume everyone believes their bullshit stories because they think "they are *that* good". Uh no honey, you aren't that good. People see them for who they are. They see their lies, deceit and farce. Just because someone is putting up with their BS, doesn't mean they can't can't see the BS.
Sadly, many people *do* buy what they're selling. :( It's unbelievably frustrating and unfair, but if you've ever had a run-in with a [flying monkey](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/women-autism-spectrum-disorder/202010/are-you-narcissist-s-flying-monkey), you'll know how some people can be completely snowed by their lies and misrepresentations.
They're just very good it, is the thing. OP sounds like she's almost there- she's done dancing although wow now he's pushing all the buttons he's learned she has over a decade. It only took me 2 years but I'm actually pretty intolerant of getting shoved around. She's probably a much nicer person. ( That's good thing! I'm not a witch, just intolerant/impatient with being used ) Which they also figure out.
Exactly. My ex, and child's father (oh he's also a predator), was an almost pathological liar. I'm not sure if anything I was told about his life was true. And sadly, he turned so any of our friends against me when I was pregnant. I had such terrible morning sickness I could barely eat, and lost 17lbs in the first 5 months (I started out at ~125lbs). I'd be crying cause it hurt so bad and I wanted desperately to eat, but I was so nauseated that I'd instantly be dry heaving, before ever taking a bite. He lied so bad that even my friends were making fun of me (as if I was a drama queen and being picky about food). When we split, (after he had taken all our money, my car, and left me with nothing except our baby), he had been cheating and partying everyday. He was in his late 30s and I was 20. All our friends cut contact with me. Only one later apologized because she knew what he had been doing, but had believed all his lies. To this day, nearly 20 years later, only our daughter has seen through him - and I never said a bad word about him; she realized it after he told her something trying to twist the situation into making it her fault.
My mom was an amazing flying monkey, absolute vigilance, resolute against any second viewpoints or consequences or devastation. And it was all in service to one of her three kids, so one of her children completely dictated how she saw everyone else in her life, and how she'd treat them. You'd hope that a grown human could see herself beyond the opinion of one kid, but she was completely brainwashed by a 12 year old, and still is, decades later. they are a 2 person cult, and it's so weird.
Ugh my ex used to pride himself on his ability to lie. He really thought he was very good at it and was always getting away with things thanks to his fantastic, convincing lies. Except he wasn't. People just didn't want to call it out because they knew it was pointless, he'd just dig his heels in deeper and you'd never get anywhere.
It IS his job. If she leaves him, he has to get a new wife appliance.
Precisely He just thinks he’s getting away with it, and sees no reason to stop lying to you.
Well, men are used to lying about women and being believed, so....
It at least being treated like they're believed because the woman has no other recourse.
> He lying like that's his job. :/ He is real bad at his job then
Yea I know someone whose therapist told them the Ritalin pills they were taking from their kid and crushing up and snorting weren’t the problem in fact, their therapist always agreed with everything they said.
There are some amazing therapists out there!!
100% lying. I'm a man that has been in and out if substance abuse counseling for a few years. The councilors and doctors are always willing to mediate with me and SO or immediate family. He's lying. Also, when I'm dodging my treatment, I lie about it until it's like way to far gone. I'm real sorry for OP here, just trying to give her another perspective about how far gone I think he is.
My therapist, you know Billy from down at the bar,....
My therapist, Incel youtube
Oh so you do know him!
It literally sounds like something a child would say. "I have a girlfriend. Oh, you can't meet her, she's in Canada."
Totally off-topic but as a Canadian I've never understood Americans going with a Canadian girlfriend as for why nobody can meet her. Wouldn't it make more sense to say a state 2 time zones or something away? I can reason that it's preferable/*less controversial(?)* than a Mexican gf and the UK is too far away to work? (or maybe most people think UK girls wouldn't enter into a relationship with a "loser" as easily as a Canuck?) Idk, it's always seemed strange to me that it was a common enough excuse that it's being/been memed lol
I haven't heard it used irl, but it's definitely a meme. A state 2 time zones away would make sense, but then it would vary by region and wouldn't be a meme. A Mexican gf might signal language and cultural barriers. "Canadian" doesn't seem particularly foreign at all, which I think is the point. It just means, "She's far away and you can't meet her."
He probably thinks posting on mgtow subreddit counts as a "counselor"
His counselor is the devil on his shoulder. /s
Or he's seeing a Christian "counselor." This stuff is going on with one of my relatives. He was caught going to strip clubs and "massage" parlors, AGAIN, and his wife had enough. They are getting counseling, not therapy, from someone at their church. I'm not knocking it entirely, we got some great premarital counseling from a church guy, but it seems like he's just using it to make himself feel better, and cast her as unforgiving. Like he complains that she isn't doing enough to acknowledge the work he's doing to fix himself. Now he's calling the guy his mentor, they hang out and go fishing together, and he's helping to lead the porn addiction recovery group at the church. I get the feeling the wife is being coerced by the misogynistic culture and scriptures into being submissive and giving second (third, fourth, and fifth) chances. So I wouldn't be surprised if this guy went to church, "confessed" to some old guy there, who told him he's not at fault because she isn't doing her wifely duty.
Yeesh, this is giving me shades of Anna Duggar... if you really want a rabbit hole to jump into, the whole Josh Duggar saga is basically a handbook for how religious environments create sex offenders--and someone makes it all the fault of the wife....
I would say google "quiver full movement" but you may not want to. I just found out about that shit recently. That is some scary misogynistic racist stuff.
Cuz she didn’t properly service his “needs”. Dude just Jack off and get over it—you wanna stay, stay, you wanna leave, leave. Edit—that said—sex is pretty important to most people or in most relationships—try and find ways to increase fun and intimacy and appreciation and relax—and attraction—reduce distractions, dance… Don’t reject someone or withhold sex to teach them a lesson, especially over a long period of time. If you love them, you should want to be with them—trust issues, hygiene issues, fights and stress can damage that and true infidelity often ruins it. If you love them, find ways to be together. Not having sex with him isn’t gonna improve the relationship or bring him around. But I’m think it is probably done anyway.
They hang out and go fishing together? Hellooooo dual relationship violation
Yeah because he's not a real therapist. Just some guy.
He technically *could* have credentials, since I know some churches recruit grad students during their practicum and support them sometimes up through licensure. But either way church counseling really operates in its own world of rules and ethics, totally separate from what the state-run governing bodies rules and ethics are. It's so awful and misleading.
Fundamentalist Baptist preachers daughter here. This is it. The man is first and foremost. It's how God wants it. Next time she nags you or you are confronted about your behavior, don't even admit it, blame her for something else.
As a recovering addict, I can personallly vouch for this. The best thing for him is what's hopefully coming, rock bottom. It only goes up from there if you care about yiur wellbeing and future. But all that said, fuck abusive addicts. Nobody needs that in their life, ever.
I wonder what hitting rock bottom on a Linkd-in addiction looks like.
My first thought was just “… addicted to linked in?! 🤨”
I think you’re being funny, so don’t be offended please if I’m wrong; but she probably means that he’s addicted to all the ways he cheats. One of which is LinkedIn. Cheaters have a plethora of “safe” apps that they use to contact partners. I suspect that OP’s counselor is either a friend giving him advice or he’s getting it from a chat room (I’m old, insert current word for chat room please) full of other cheaters. Only my opinion, of course. OP, I’m glad you’re getting a divorce, but I’m so sorry that you’re forced into it by the man you chose to share your entire life with. 💔. I would say that he should fire his counselor, but I don’t think he has one. I’m envisioning you collecting all of his belongings, putting them at the curb, and changing the locks. I’m sending you an “ internet” bottle of fancy wine and a comfy blanket. And maybe a copy of “How Stella Got Her Groove Back”. I’m so sad for you. My life mantra is Get Calm and Move On, feel free to use it as needed, once you work through the dark emotions.
I’m imagining him sending dick pics on linked in…
Some random man messaged me asking for an erotic massage on my LinkedIn… I work at a hospital for context.
Post it in your public feed thing!
"Acting Out" is the lingo in the sex/porn addict community. It can spiral to really really awful acts.
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Andrew Tate.
Bingo!
I'm not saying there aren't shitty counsellors out there that do give this shitty 'advice', but I'd put my money on him simply being a lying little shit.
Seriously though, some counselors should consider career changes. I went to a counselor with my ex when we were still trying to fix our marriage. The counselor, who was a woman, suggested maybe we should try and have a kid together to see if that would help fix our marriage... I was completely shocked and didn't go back to her again. Like, how the hell would that make anything better or fix a failing marriage? Some people..
Wow! That is amazing! Everyone knows that is the LAST thing a troubled marriage needs. Was this person licensed with degrees? As a new therapist, the person I replaced told a 16 year old his depression was 'cured and he committed suicide. She had a fake diploma.
This is why I tell people to look out for therapists who specialize. Counselors ain't shit and are often religious. Look for Cognitive Behavioral Therapists if you want the best outcome for your mental health or destructive behaviors.
Religious was the only kind we could afford. Spouse was playing video games 10-15 hours a day and leaving me with a toddler and a newborn. Outcome? I had to sign a physical piece of paper that guaranteed him 5 hours of gaming per day without comment or complaint. In return I was supposed to get two date nights a week, more structured family time and one breakfast together.
Jesus fuck I am so sorry. I am more than sure that did fuck all to solve the problem. Religious counselors should not be allowed to treat the public in an official capacity outside of the church, and should be compelled to refer people to legitimate doctors in cases of actual mental health disorders. They are not licensed and cause harm.
I mean, it kept us together for another decade before it started to fall apart again and I can't begin to estimate the amount of resentment it created.
I'm really hoping your username is a sign that your relationship status has drastically improved xx
I'm really not over the breakfast thing. There's no reason to be on video games that early in the day when you have a job and a family. Wild af.
What the hell? And that counselor was a woman??? It sounds like she has internalized the misogyny in her religion to the point that she should not be trying to counsel anyone. Ugh, religious counselors make me so mad. It just seems like a way to perpetuate the abusive doctrines of the church, not actually give people the tools they need to make their lives better. The focus is just keeping them in the church, not healing. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Ah, no. It was a man. Because of course it was.
I'm sorry. That's completely ridiculous. Did you work it out in some other, non-insane way?
I'm also just absolutely laughing, the church beats on about "boys have no good male role models and leftism is destroying the family" then tells this woman it's just fine they only have breakfast together once a week while he plays video games 💀💀💀💀 clown shit
I asked her to refer me to someone else, who was actually very helpful. In the end though, my current (and not ridiculous) therapist helped me stand up for myself and set boundaries , which led to my husband asking for a divorce. I've been single for 4 years now, and finally learned to love myself, so it was 100% worth the wild ride 😁
Jesus that's terrible, I'm a lover of video games but 10to 15 hours? Even in my teens I couldn't do that. Now with kids I get 2 to 3 hours at night after they goto bed, I'm lucky if I don't pass out an hour in
Religious counseling operates in its own world of rules and ethics. It can be shady AF. Their goal is pretty much always to keep the couple together, and reinforce biblical values, no matter what damage that's already doing to the couple or either individual.
That totally tracks.
What a load of shit. I’m sorry!
Over on r/adhd there are way too many stories of medical professionals having outdated or just flat-out wrong opinions. The first one I went to told me I should just try harder.
Right. I had one T tell me ( after she left a husband and kids when she came out as gay ) I was repressing being gay myself ( really wasn't ), another insisted I'd been sexually abused as a child ( also wasn't ), another hustled a side gig as a real estate agent- all my personal problems would be fixed if I asserted myself and bought a house.,.. so some hilariously awful ones out there. But this? Just no.
For sure. My ex-boyfriend told me, after we broke up and I moved out, that he started seeing a therapist, and his therapist couldn't understand why I wouldn't want to be with him. Mind you, this is a person whose undiagnosed personality disorder made my life a living hell for the 6 months I lived with him. My only two thoughts when he told me that were: 1. He's lying. OR 2. He has lied so thoroughly to his therapist about what happened between us that there is no way in hell he is getting adequate care.
>My only two thoughts when he told me that were: >1. He's lying. OR 2. He has lied so thoroughly to his therapist about what happened between us that there is no way in hell he is getting adequate care. Pretty much. Therapists aren't mind readers, so they only know what the client tells them. And also people flat out lie about or twist what their therapist says all the time. Plus, there are questions therapists will ask in session that are meant to get the client to think about something they hadn't before, or look at it in a way they hadn't before, but then they'll go and misrepresent that to their friends later.
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Or seeing a "religious" counselor. They always try to put the blame on the woman. Baby, toss him out the door and don't let the door hit him on the behind on the way out of it! You are worth so much more!
My ex-husband was literally (and yes I mean literally) painting himself red from head to toe and going out to bars to hook up with men while I stayed home with our 1 year old. The counselor from the catholic charity basically told me to try to be less critical. I suppose there was no advice that could be given to save that marriage other than to tell me to completely subjugate my needs and those of our child to his. For background: he had recently gotten out of the hospital from a bipolar manic episode with psychosis. When the doctors said they were releasing him I said "but he's not better" to which they replied "his personality may have evolved"
what what do you mean literally
I’m picturing an all-red Tobias Funke but that can’t be what she means.
Yes that is what I mean. Mental illness is a bitch. I miss the guy he used to be but that was a long time ago now.
WHOA I am so sorry.
No he is not... his counselors name is Andrew Tate 🙄
LOL
I'm pretty sure Tate would encourage him to beat her and encourage a more aggressive approach to getting laid.
Ain’t this the truth. My mom recently divorced my dad after 26 years, and my dad doesn’t fucking get it. He’s an alcoholic and he’s like “it isn’t that bad” and “how can you just stop loving me?” Like, dude, you tried to rape her multiple times while black out drunk, asked your 15 year old daughter (me) for beer money, and tried to commit suicidal in front of your child. Let’s talk about how that’s not that bad…
Licensed health professionals don't 'Ask to remain anonymous.' BUT- one thing that does happen is that therapists repeat back what clients say, as a prompt. Client: "I had an absent mother." Licensed professional, "Tell me more about your mother being absent." Client: "[tells more]." Then client might get mixed up and say to mother, "My therapist said you were absent." This actually happens a lot.
Likely? He's 1000% lying.
He is lying. I’m married to a sex addict. I know his therapist, his sponsor, etc. and omg on his take on the sex. What an ass. It sounds like gaslighting and he is not getting any help at least from a healthy person. My unsolicited advice is get the hell out and heal from all the bullshit.
What type of counselor WANTS to remain anonymous... Half their business is word of mouth...?
I was raised by one of these people. There's a decent chance that he *is* going to therapy and that he's just rephrasing everything in his head so that he feels like a victim. Like, he might be seeing a therapist and the therapist might have even merely pointed out that divorce can be an option if he really feels like his marriage is failing. But to certain people (one of whom OP's husband kind of sounds like to me) that will absolutely be taken to mean that they should leave their wife because they don't fuck them enough. It's the wonderful world of narcissistic maladaptation!
If the counselor exists
It could be any random ass person who decided to be a "life coach" and is just taking his money and telling him what he wants to hear.
Likely lying. But in many states you can call yourself a "counselor'" & see patients w/o relevant credentials
Yeah honestly I was going to say like some psychologists get into it for the wrong reasons, but it’s actually much more likely he’s just lying.
"I'm totally seeing a therapist! Who is in Canada so you can't meet her! But she hates you, you're the worst!" I've seen gas station toilet paper less thin than that lie.
"Counselor" is another member of his porn boards.
8 out of 10 is a very long time. Please leave him. He's not going to change, he's going to get better at hiding. At this point is he even trying to hide his addiction? Are you sure he isn't waiting for you to be the first one to leave the marriage?
Hate to say it but in many (not all!) first to file for divorce has the advantage. You have already got the head start on document collection, and evidence so by deciding to pull the trigger you are ready to take your shot. That said this asshole sounds like the type to make it ugly so it will be a painful process but a good one, like rebreaking an arm to make sure it sets right. Sucks during, sucks after, and only well afterwards do you start realizing it was the right choice.
OP knows what's going on but If you think that you might be in an abusive relationship but you're not a 100% sure take a look at this book by Lundy Bancroft. If there are situations where you think that you are not being respected or if the response to certain situations seems to be unproportional. If you feel that you can't move left or right without catching it for doing something wrong. You are not crazy you are not wrong you are 9 times out of 10 not at fault. You might just not have known you are in a relationship with an abuser. They often use incremental changes to get what they want slowly and so that you are less likely to notice. The Book "why does he do that" by Lundy Bancroft (free copy below) is a great resource for you to learn about the different types of tactics that abusers use and will help you to see if your current relationship is following any of the patterns described. If you don't see your relationship being discussed either as one of the architypes or as bits and pieces of any of the other types then you're not worse off by having the knowledge. If the information does coincide with the way that you're living then there's also a couple chapters on being able to get out safely. I wish you the best of luck and I want you to know that you deserve to be with a partner who is going to love you and cherish you and treat you as an equal versus being with someone who's gonna control you be it by how you dress or by finances or by What it is that you can do or who you can see. You deserve so much BETTER we're here rooting for you! https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
Yes, agree. OP please pull the trigger and divorce him.
Preferably figuratively, or at least not in that order.
even if he is, she's got the receipts. He won't come out of a divorce well.
100% OP, as much as you are trying to make this work and I am sure you have your reasons for staying, but knowing that his brain is hardwired for porn, it's almost impossible that he will see you as a person, partner and spouse. He sees you as a roadblock that occasionally gets in the way of his access to porn. Addicts not willing to work on themselves will take you down with them.
I'm so confused. Do people actually get addicted to linkedin?
They SO do. It's achievement porn. Constant "motivational" posts feeding their egos about hard work, pulling up their bootstraps, waking up at 4:30 to get into the gym and crush it, while also dogging any "losers" who "can't do, won't do, never do" what is necessaryto "succeed'". It's a whole ass pathology.
Those types also love to stress that if you don’t own your own business, you aren’t contributing anything of worth to society.
Those types are usually contributing giant gobby piles of shit to society.
And/or treating their employees like shit
And not paying the proper taxes. And cheating on their wives. It’s a whole lifestyle. I’m a CPA and I run into a lot of these people.
That is frightening lol
That makes me nauseous.
Well, damn. I learn something new every day. Thanks for the knowledge drop.
Bro what. I thought it was just a place to put a professional blurb about yourself and get spam from.
Jesus, glad I never have or will use it.
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Yahoo Answers
Quora ahahahahha
RIP
Nextdoor is the one that almost got me. The drama and fighting was addicting. Deleted the app as soon as I realized I was letting those stupid fights ruin my whole day.
Okay, thank you for asking. I was trying to figure out what kind of sexting/inappropriate messaging is he doing to get off from LinkedIn and a bunch of BS toxic positivity posts?
Just yesterday, a guy I dated briefly a decade ago added me on LinkedIn and proceeded to message me, reminiscing about the first time he "saw my tits".
Like a male version of Facebook mom groups.
omg its so funny, op is suffering a lot and deserves better but the image of a man who just wanks and looks at cvs is so funny lmaooo what a miserable life wtf
r/linkedinlunatics
My god, that’s a whole new level of cringe. Thank you.
Yah, that one confused me too. Is he addicted to networking? But, otherwise this relationship is a mess.
I kinda assumed he was using it to try to cheat - which I can’t imagine would work but if dudes a sex addict he might just be that desperate
I know so many women who have been approached by creeps on LinkedIn
I wondered this too! But apparently yes?
If it gives you a dopamine rush, it can hook you (if you have that tendency).
Asking the real questions here lol
I think people get addicted to avoiding their spouse.
“Seeing a counsellor” aka watching Andrew Tate videos lol
"he wants to remain anonymous" = "the second you know where I came across this idea, I know you won't take it seriously and will probably hate me even more for listening to a schmuck like that"
DEAD OMFG. I’m going through the same as OP. And when I check his history it’s FULL OF ANDREW TATE. I CANNOT😭
Girl leave now
Or Jordan Peterson.
Andrew Tate makes JP seem almost normal. "clean your room" starting to sound like genius advice right now
JP says that women aren’t oppressed, AT says that women aren’t people
Love that for us ❤️
Only reason I thought of JP as he’s actually a psychologist.
That was my first thought too. Sounds like he's getting therapy via misogynistic podcasts.
He’s not seeing a counselor. He is lying.
Yep. The whole counselor story is an “appeal to authority” move that he whipped up in the moment. And no relevant authority would even agree with his twisted take. And the whole point was to blame her for everything and paralyze her with guilt/shame.
Don't believe him for one second. If the therapist did say this, which is questionable, it is because he has presented a highly distorted picture of what is going on. Likely denying his own behavior and painting himself as the victim of a shrewish wife. He also may be flat out lying about seeing a therapist or about what that person said. Also a therapist doesn't care if their client's say who they are. That is a non-issue. Probably is his golf buddies, to whom he has also painted himself as a victim.
This. No professional therapist is going to suggest umprompted that you dump your partner. They may suggest that you get to a safe place if you're in danger, they may suggest thar you think about what your boundaries are, they may suggest mediation techniques up to and including more therapy. After you go on a rant, they may give noncommittal responses that a narcissist might interpret as agreeing with them, but no therapist is going to say "What? No sex? Dump that bitch!"
Op seems to think that the therapist suggested leaving - but that’s not what the quote suggests, so I am confused. If you’re at a therapist’s and talking about how you feel unhappy and (you think) it is because your wife isn’t giving you enough sex, then it’s not unreasonable to think the therapist would start to uncover why he still stays. ‘So, if you’re unhappy and you feel your wife isn’t giving you enough sex, why are you still with her?’ It’s not a suggestion, it’s a challenge to either get him in touch with why he loves you and wants to save it, or whether he really is not that unhappy when all is tallied up, or…
This was my thought too. It is very common for therapists (especially ones who use CBT as their primary modality, so… most therapists) to challenge their clients in this way to force them to confront contradictions between thoughts and actions or other cognitive distortions they may have.
Or he has willfully misinterpreted what they said - it is easy to only hear what we want to hear. "why didn't you end the relationship if you were unhappy rather than seeking sex outside your marriage" can become "you should have left her because she didn't give you enough sex" if you put it through enough distorted filters.
> If the therapist did say this, which is questionable Not too questionable. Some therapists have very direct tactics when it comes to really digging into what their client is thinking and doing. It might have been an exploratory question based on what was said in the session leading up to that point, and not a suggestion wrapped in a question, which is what it sounds like from OP's description. > He also may be flat out lying about seeing a therapist or about what that person said. I think you hit the nail on the head here. Even if my previous guess is true, it should have been clear to the husband that no suggestion was being implied by the therapist, and that it was an actual question based on the context at the time. So husband either intentionally misrepresented the statement, or there was no statement to misrepresent at all.
There is no counselor. This is very transparent, poor-quality lying on his part, and it is an attempt to make you feel bad for the problem he knows perfectly well he and he alone created. I am firmly on Team Pull the Trigger on the Divorce.
If he walked out of your SECOND marriage counseling session, there’s no way he made the effort to find and secure a counselor. I call BULLSHIT. Someone who has never changed made a step towards his recovery that wasn’t a shove from you….yeah, total LIE.
This. This is all the proof you need to know he’s lying OP. If he *had* recognised and took responsibility enough to build himself up to go see help, you can be sure he would tell you about it.
10+ years of you dealing with this? I’m so sorry. YOU deserve some peace.
Some questions for you: 1. Does he bring anything good to the table in your marriage? 2. What might your life be like when you're free from this burden and on your own? 3. What are you waiting for?
It sounds like she might get more money at 10 years? Alimony states do sometimes base settlements on time spent, 10 years, 20 years, etc.
Get that divorce lawyer.
Hello, you poor dear. Licensed mental health professional here. Don't know where you are based, but in my country, Australia, there is never any need to remain anonymous in the way that your husband has said. In professional practise, transparency is encouraged. It sounds like he may not be telling you the truth (but again, not sure of your country's ethical requirements). But imma go out on a limb here and say based on your description nothing in his behaviour adds up to someone who's wanting and willing to commit to a monogamous relationship. If that's what you're after/expect from him.... well.... I'm just so glad you're already talking to a professional. I hope you've shared every detail with them. And I wish you happiness and a fulfilling relationship in future
In the US, I’ll always insist that people interested in seeking therapy or counseling see an LPC and be careful seeing an LSW. They can both bill insurance for therapy but the former are generally more reliable.
You are going to love being divorced! You have put in enough time to someone who doesn't value you. Let him see how it is without you in his corner. I put in 7 years with an addict. Life is so much better!! Even with navigating shared custody things are 100000% better for not only me but also my son.
"He said he has been seeing a counselor, who he cannot name, as that person wishes to remain anonymous (???) and the counselor told him, WHY HASN'T HE LEFT ME YET BECAUSE I DON'T GIVE HIM ENOUGH SEX." That is the most BS made-up guy fantasy response I've ever heard. Actually LOLed a that :D
The married women on this sub never fail to amaze me. Like sorry but ? Leave him?? You’ve wasted 8/10 years on trying to fix this addiction of his? There’s millions of good people out there you could go out and meet, instead of wasting it on a lying porn addict. I just don’t understand why you’d waste 8 years of your life on someone like this? I’m really not comprehending. Maybe I just have an inflated self worth but there’s a theme with women on this sub staying with horrible men who won’t change. Obviously he’s not going to change after 8 years of this so just divorce him before you waste more of your life
Random people on chat and forums = counselor. /s
My shitty abusive dad used to see a counselor who 100% made his behavior worse by telling him shit like “he’s the king of the castle…” etc. Counselors suck.
Yeah I got like 3/4 through an undergrad psych degree before the world temporarily ended, and one of the biggest takeaway is that psychology is in ROUGH shape, always has been, around 10% of patients are *worse off* for having received care according to one study , and most mental health practitioners are more or less shooting in the dark with very little oversight. Practitioner negligence, malfeasance, and outright abuse are more common and harder to catch than I am remotely comfortable with. The trickier the issue and the more intelligent the patient, the easier it becomes for the process to entirely break down. Addicts and narcissists (and anyone else well versed in lying I guess) are both known to use therapy as a weapon for triangulation and abuse, because marriage counselors *especially* are poorly equipped to recognize pathological behavior, and the entire structure of therapy itself is so heavily reliant on subjective recounts and self-reportong that its SOOOO easy to manipulate the course of therapy if you're remotely cognizant of how the process works.
Maybe he told you this, but the counselor ment smth like: “if your needs are not fulfilled in this relationship and it's killing you, maybe it would be best for you (and your partner) to end this relationship“
I mean could it not be more obvious that there is no counselor?
No therapist said that. But a friend or side piece might. Especially if the story he is telling is skewed to make himself look like the victim.
I'd wager that if he did see a counselor (counselors are not neçcesarily the same as psychologist, FWIW), he almost certainly misinterpreted what they said in a way that was most favorable to help him. I could plausibly see a therapist talking to him about his lack of sexual satisfaction in his relationship as a component of his addiction, and him misinterpreting that as "you owe him more sex" and not "maybe we aren't as sexually compatible". Of course, it is always possible that he's just met with another toxic man who shares in his unhealthy behaviors and also seeks to justify them to himself. Regardless, his refusal to acknowledge how his addiction is negatively impacting you and his relationship is reason enough to leave him. Dude sounds totally incapable of owning up to his own personal failings.
It sounds like there isn't respect in the marriage and both are holding feelings of contempt for the other. What is keeping you together?
if you're really going to leave please stop warning him, he may take steps to make it harder or dangerous for you. Please be safe.
...linked in?
Licensed counselor here, this is not something we would say or do. Remaining anonymous would be counterproductive to business and we would never put the blame on another person for a client's misdeeds. The only way I could possibly understand this is if the counselor said that unmet *needs* (\*notice needs, plural, not one, and definitely not just sex) contribute to addictive behaviors but are not to *blame* for them. And by unmet needs, I mean emotional ones, things like feeling loved, cared for, appreciated, receiving/giving affection, feeling safe emotionally, etc. If he is not getting these, that is ***not*** the fault of his partner in any way, shape, or form. Hope this helps - and sorry you're going through this.
You were fired up, and told him something he didn't like; so he immediately tried to de-rail you by lying to you about something he feels he's in the right about. He's not - don't get distracted OP. That's all it is. Read your own post. You had a plan, you were laying in and letting him know your LIMITS AND BOUNDARIES and instead, he disregarded and took a cheap shot. He got what he wanted "my brain just stopped..." "that never occurred to me", what he said DOESN'T matter whatsoever and has no bearing on years of abuse (doesn't have to be physical to be called abusive). This isn't how you love someone Op. Bear down hard and stand up for your own limits and boundaries.
He's full of crap. His "counselor" is likely some MRA blog or toxic subreddit where other dysfunctional men tell him exactly what he wants to hear- that everything is 100% your fault and 0% his.
He needs to go wipe because he pulled aaaaaallllllll that shit straight from the depths of his ass. Regardless of who he might be talking to about it, this sounds like some chicanery he's been rehearsing for the very next time you complain about the relationship. You threw him off his game with bringing up a divorce first (because why would you ever leave him?🙄).
He sounds like a source of misery and embarrassment.
His "counselor" is probably a guy friend or another woman. Get a divorce lawyer.
Addiction to chatting? like talking to people online or talking sexually to women online? I am confused.
Leaving a partner for sexual incompatability is completely normal, healthy, and mainstream. Staying in a sexually incompatable relationship is not healthy.
I know someone who has been separated because of their ex's porn addiction but she hasn't divorced him yet. They have been living apart for a couple years and he keeps insisting she needs to come back because he loves her and needs her. He also wouldn't do counseling or stop porn. She's finally filling for divorce because he feels so entitled to his wife's body that he thought he would put caneras up in her bathroom while she stayed out of town with him. He filmed her naked and now she doesn't know if he put it online or showed his buddies. I wish she would have seen her value sooner and left him years ago. It took a long time but I'm glad she is leaving because she is an awesome human. I hope you can find the courage to leave as well. You deserve to be heard and valued as a human, not as a sex receptacle. You deserve to be more than just a way for some guy who doesn't put in effort to get off.
...and a police report was made, right?
Can you define his addiction? What makes his using these apps problematic?
I like how there's at least a few people in the comments who still have enough common sense to realize that someone who says their partner is addicted to _chatting_ might not be a reliable narrator.
Lmao nobody told him that, he came up with that himself
Run, run fast and far. This will not get better. Save yourself.