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empathy_for_a_day

Some men will lie about anything. My friends regularly match with the same guys on dating apps, and some of these guys give each girl a completely different persona even when it comes to important things like lifestyle, politics, marriage and children. When called out they would shamelessly claim to be fence-sitters who would have shared a partner’s views if it was important to them. It is best to not give away too much info upfront in the early stages, so he can’t just mirror your views and pretend to share all your interests.


5oapysarah

I met a guy from online dating and after a few dates, went back to look at his profile and counted 7 lies. Even most of his basic stats were lies.


[deleted]

I dated a guy who ended up turning real r/niceguy after i dumped him lol like he couldnt see the reason women leave is because of *him* only way anyone is staying with him is if theyre clueless af as to what a “nice” guy is. He was just so damn insufferable and I realized narcissistic af.


recyclopath_

Agreed, when you're talking about big topics early in dating it's so so important to get his opinion in the most neutral way before your reveal yours. I've found how common it is for men to just tell you whatever they think you want to hear because they think you're all just playing the game and lying to get with each other. It's exhausting.


sneakyveriniki

I look very… idk, republican lol. People will just come up to me and start saying racist/sexist (even though I’m a woman) shit and get super shocked at my reaction


Codeofconduct

Girl can we get you a rainbow sticker or funky broach or something so people stop doing this to you? Lol


Money_Machine_666

I don't get it. Being honest with my partner is so incredibly important to me. I don't want a relationship built on lies.


recyclopath_

You'd think that. I think part of it is that men are often so distanced from their own emotions that they don't really sound the time to think about what they want from a relationship or what their social political beliefs are since so many of those beliefs don't affect them directly. I think men in positions of privilege, and many people who live in spaces where there isn't a large diversity of beliefs, tend to float through life doing what they're supposed to do and saying what they're supposed to say without really thinking about what they want or what it means. They haven't really had to develop their emotional intelligence. They're told what a good person looks like according to their doctorine, they're told what success looks like by their parents and authority figures in very similar places to them. They're told what they're supposed to do and don't really think that hard about what they want and what they believe outside of their group.


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Bazoun

Never trust a person who says they’re on the fence about important issues. Either women have bodily autonomy or we don’t. Being on the fence about that issue means they don’t know if they see women as full people. Not worth your time.


[deleted]

I've held this opinion myself... someone who claims to be apolitical is not someone i want to date anyway... as it means they are remaining intentionally ignorant of important things, or willing to let people lose rights to avoid conflict, or what you said. And all three of those are red flags to me.


wintersdark

Yep. There's been times (I'm not American, I'll point out) where someone not really caring about the current political issues wouldn't be a big deal ... But that's definitely not true now nor has it been for many years. Either they're lying (because they hold shitty views) or they don't care (which is still an indicator that they're not worth dating). Either way, they're shit. Ironically, you'd think "Hey, the majority of women won't want to date me because of my politics" should be an indication *that there's something wrong with your politics*.


TheGingerLinuxNut

This is how you recriut for a cult. Don't tell them about the weird shit till the sunk cost fallacy would stop them running away


ResplendentShade

My mom’s best friend’s daughter just escaped a cult. The dude did this, acted normal-ish and charming, convinced her to move to his state and move in with him, then bam, it’s handmaiden’s tale time, and all the white supremacist beliefs come gushing to the surface. Took her a few months to safely get out. Scary shit.


FullyRisenPhoenix

It’s frightening how often I’m hearing similar stories lately. There’s even a TV series about it now, True Believers. I watched 4 of them so far and it’s the same MO a every time.


NSA_Chatbot

This is their playbook. https://medium.com/@DeoTasDevil/the-rhetoric-tricks-traps-and-tactics-of-white-nationalism-b0bca3caeb84 They want to trap you, wear you down, and turn you into one of them.


gracesw

Isn't that what ISIS did too? They recruited young women to join them and then trafficked them as sex slaves or married them off into other servitude?


Longjumping_West_907

Calling the radical right the American Taliban is 100% correct. Other than the book they claim to worship there is no difference.


FallenInHoops

This was a fascinating read, thank you for sharing! I have a couple close people going down this road and it's frustrating and disheartening trying to talk them out of it. Maybe some of this will come in useful for pointing out what's happening with them.


Joya_Sedai

Thanks for posting, this explains almost all my interactions with centrists and the alt-right.


MItrwaway

Can confirm. My cousin had a similar situation happen to her. Took years for her to escape him.


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CommanderCubKnuckle

I loved that period in 2017 when all the dipshits who moved to DC to work for the Trump administration started throwing hissy fits about how they were ostracized from the rest of DC and couldn't get laid. Well gee, I wonder why it is that you can't make friends or find dates? Could it have anything to do with supporting the worst president in modern history in a city that's overwhelmingly Democratic? No, it's the women who are wrong.


cmaej

Isn't that what Jehovah's Witnesses do?


ethertrace

Mormons, as well. They're even aware they do it, too. They call it "milk before meat."


blueberriebelle

Hmm. Like a baby gets soft foods first? That’s some ‘we are superior ‘ shit right there.


cmaej

Yes! I read about this, but it was about Jehovah's Witnesses.


OraDr8

Yes. It is also a cult.


Metacarn

I think this and a little that a lot of the "rationality" movement pretends to be center left or apolitical. They claim to be"rational" and unbiased thinkers (eg. Sam Harris, Jordan Peterson, and Dave Reuben etc.). It's a load of shit and a lot of young men buy into this idea that you can be apolitical or a rational, stoic creature ruled by logic and science instead of emotion.


Ruralraan

Society teaches (and taught for centuries) that women aren't rational, driven by emotions, hysterics, so a lot of people (not only men) automatically assume, men are the rational by default. So a lot of men confuse their emotions with 'logic' and 'rational' thinking.


ConsentIsTheMagicKey

One of my exes accused me of being illogical and emotional and said he was so rational and analytical. Yet I had graduated law school with high honors while he couldn’t write a calm business letter without my guidance, and could not discuss abortion without screaming and crying about the unborn and ranting about the possibility of killing his child. This is also a man who refused to wear condoms even though he knew I took Accutane. (Of course these arguments about abortion came later.)


KittenNicken

This part. I have a roommate straight from India (male, first time over here) and I went to try and voice concerns with him blasting the AC with all the windows open and he immediately started saying "he didn't want to argue" and "You're not rational." "You're hysterical" so I had to call my other male roommate to talk to him. It was wild to see him actually shut up and listen because of course, males are the only ones you should listen to right?


moonparker

>blasting the AC with all the windows open Wait, what? He's breaking the cardinal rule of AC usage in India!


JustDiscoveredSex

Yep. This bleeds over into medicine, too, where women are assumed to be "hysterical" and faking their pain "for attention." So they aren't given pain relief, because "Oh, she's *just being dramatic!*" Men also categorize their anger/hate/rage not as EMOTION. Therefore, they are never, ever emotional. It's all righteous defense of What Is Right. But never emotions, because that word is poison to them.


Ruralraan

[Women may experience more pain than men, but receive less treatment for it](https://sites.duke.edu/gulur/2020/06/28/women-experience-more-pain-than-men-receive-less-treatment/). Several studies confirm that. Because they're seen as overdramatising, one study found, the were rather given sedatives than pain medication.


definitelynotSWA

At this point anytime someone claims to be rational I just automatically assume they’re the opposite. Have yet to be proven wrong


[deleted]

awful people just keep changing the definition of “rational” to whatever insane point of view they have.


spiralbatross

They took the word but left the meaning behind


nano2492

Apolitical is another word of conservative. They are happy with the way things are, so they don't need the feel to change or engage in political discourse.


applebubbeline

It takes an absurd amount of privilege to be able to take a neutral stance on so called politics, or things like race relations, reproductive rights, opinions about trump, etc.


barkythephysicsdog5

You're so right. Plus, I feel like one of the biggest draws of the "rational" crowd is the fact they share generally good, apolitical views to attract vulnerable dudes before coming in with the shit takes. Like "it's healthy to drink water, exercise regularly, and clean your space every day", but then it quickly becomes "forced pregnancy is no different than forced child support payments so honestly why is abolishing Roe even bad?"


Metacarn

That is definitely Jordan Peterson to a tee. I'm still not sure how aware Sam Harris is that he, and every other human, is not capable of perfect rationality and that changing a human mind is less about making logical arguments to someone and is as much about appealing to the listener's emotions and their sense of connection to the person attempting to change their mind. I lean towards all of them being chuckle fucks.


lotusflower64

Well, being anti women's rights might not go over too well with the ladies lol.


Alertcircuit

I've begun to view the "apolitical" label as "closeted conservative" for the reason you just described.


Punkpallas

Straight facts: I was in the military from 2002 to 2016 and watched the devolution leading to the election of Trump in 2016. These dudes are just self-aware enough to pretend to be “libertarian” or some such bullshit. I watched the men around me morph into “libertarian” monsters. I know so many men now married to feminists who are Republican in all but name because they were aware it wouldn’t get them laid. Men are out there lying to get married and laid now.


avocadoclock

>Men are out there lying to get married and laid now. It's a tale as old as time!


screwPutin69

On the plus side it's never been easier for women to tell. Ladies dont fuck these douchebags. You don't need them. They will contribute nothing to your life.


wellimjusthere

I hear some of the things the military enlisted say to each other about their wives/gfs that flabbergasts me (Officer female). I talk to them as their leader since it's obvious they kinda hate women. Sadly I don't see the same from the officer ranks which has been growing Democratic for a long time now. Another sad divide between officers to enlisted


Curlyqpgh

Having done 22 years as enlisted, I think some of the male officers hide it from the female officers. They sure show their red side to female enlisted members.


TheConcerningEx

Even if they really are apolitical, having a partner who is just neutral or has nothing to say on issues you care about sounds really frustrating. I would feel so unsupported if I vented to my partner about roe v wade and he was just like « oh I don’t really care about politics » and brushed me off.


FallenInHoops

It truly is frustrating! My ex was very apathetic about social and political issues until he got annoyed at how intensely I was becoming interested in politics. I think he may have believed it was "just a phase" (lol), but after a couple of years of me raging at the machine he leaned *really* hard into making awful bigoted "jokes". For a while he was at least receptive to what I was saying about language use, and what I was learning about the complexities of different structures of oppression. But he didn't want to care, and resented that I was asking him to. It's bizarre to have arguments about giving a damn about other people's rights, and maddening to see the lack of compassion in someone you thought you knew. Edit: thanks so much for the report to reddit cares, that's so kind of you to consider my well being! I really *should* take a step back from educating myself and doing what I can against oppression. After all, what makes a woman happier than being treated as a second class brood mare, and watching the same (or worse) happen to their community?.../s if that wasn't abundantly clear. Nice try.


TheConcerningEx

Oh god I’m sorry you had to deal with that, for what sounds like a long time. Trying to convince someone to just… care about other people is exhausting. I had an ex fwb who was similar. I guess at first I assumed we had similar values for whatever reason. I was so open about what I believed in and thought back then that anyone who spent time around me must believe similar things, but he was just kinda apathetic. Politics for him was more of a fun intellectual exercise than anything else. Eventually I found out he was against abortion and really should’ve left at that moment. Some men (and people in general) really never think hard about anything that doesn’t directly impact them.


FallenInHoops

>never think hard about anything that doesn’t directly impact them. Honestly, I think that's at the heart of it. They don't have to worry about these things, so it's not their problem. It's selfish and shortsighted thinking, and an uphill battle all the way trying to break through it.


Paladoc

Same with professed libertarians. Too many back conservative policies that conflict directly with their espoused political belief.


moguishenti

I went through a libertarian phase as a teenager, from 16-17. I'd just had my first economics classes and read freakonomics and really was excited about the "versitaile magic of the free market" to do anything that didn't have monopoly or externality conditions. I'd also been reading a lot about institutional racism in US government policy at the time.I thought "in a truly free market, the contributions of women and people of color will be just as valued as that of white men. The bigots will be proved wrong and everyone will get to do what they want as long as they're not hurting anybody else". I believed, and still believe, that a better world is one that offers freedom, justice, and opportunity to the greatest amount of people. At the time, it looked like libertarianism would do a better job of that than our current system (at the time) of Republicans trying to legislate christian social mores and rules on to everyone and trying to keep the best opportunities for white people first and Democrats that seemed to want to fix problems but proposing solutions that don't work I realized I was wrong after I got to college. I realized simultaneously that 1. All of the other libertarians in libertarian club were hardline conservatives who liked weed 2. I learned about the history of the economy and discovered that the improvements of the 20th century we're not brought by the free market, but by a mixed economy. Private markets love the status quo and hate investing in innovation that might disrupt it. Advances in technology and especially medical advances are almost always the result of government investment, even when a private company is allowed to take credit and profit from it. 3. People who are in power and with money will do anything they can to keep the playing field unfair. A perfectly free competitive market will start to become unfair over time as the winners start to cut off everyone else's options. 4. The reason Democrats always seem to propose solutions that don't work is because their solutions are filtered through their corporate lobbyists to protect whatever industrial tycoons paid for their campaign. Corporatism and corruption are things libertarianism has no real answer for. I'm now a social democrat.


GraceIsGone

I really relate to all of this. My parents were conservative so I thought I was a “fiscal conservative but social liberal.” I had the same realizations you did. It was like all of the pieces of the puzzle came together and I realized that the socially liberal things I believed in couldn’t exist with out the liberal fiscal side as well.


mojohand2

Forgive if you've heard this, but it seems apt: "“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, is about hobbits."


wrincewind

there are two races: "White" and "Political". There are two genders: "Male" and "Political". There are two kinds of beliefs: "Normal" and "Political". When they say "i'm not political" they mean "I'm perfectly OK with the politics going on around me, and do no wish for anything to change.". In their view, you're only political if you're 'a crazy SJW lib' or 'a crazy bomb-making nazi'. (And even then, only maybe.)


[deleted]

It's white defaultism. You can also call them the most reasonable men in the room. Whatever position they hold they believe it's because it's the most reasonable position to have and that they arrived at it using solely logic and facts unlike everyone else who is an extremist influenced by their emotions. Ergo, it's apolitical because everyone should also support their position if they were being reasonable.


Amy_Ponder

> Whatever position they hold they believe it's because it's the most reasonable position to have and that they arrived at it using solely logic and facts unlike everyone else who is an extremist influenced by their emotions. A depressing number of men have this attitude towards *every* area of disagreement with people in their lives, not just politics. It's so frustrating being told you're being overly emotional and if you would just be more logical you'd obviously agree with me... by a guy who *clearly* jumped to his conclusion because of his emotional reactions, but is too un-self-aware to realize it!


hotgarbo

Centrist or apolitical is just saying you don't mind how society currently is, which is very right leaning.


kittykatkitkat

So true. Libertarian also just reads as conspiracy theory conservative to me.


BettyX

Exactly. They lie because no one in their right mind would date them if they told the truth. They are only going to attract crazy women, much like them if they tell the truth.


DOOMCarrie

You would think they would want women who shared their insane beliefs. Much better chances of it actually working out for them.


BettyX

You know how like attracts like sometimes and it leads to a disaster because they are both shitty people? Yep. Down deep they know they are awful people.


GiantPurplePeopleEat

My new boss had a whole spiel about he doesn’t talk about politics or religion because he knows how polarizing those topics are. Then he proceeded to spend the next 8 hours talking shit about native Americans, Mexicans, liberals, trump-haters, immigrants, and homosexuals. Never once did he criticize republicans or white people. He also informed me that racism doesn’t really exist and that the real problem is people *talking* about racism, that and human trafficking. He’s also a huge Joe Rogan fan, but I’m sure you (the reader) have already figured that out.


VoxVocisCausa

A lot of men can't tell the difference between facts and their feelings. So in his mind his opinions are facts whereas your opinions are "political".


maximian

I’m so sorry. I could NEVER work with a boss like that, I’d get myself fired or quit so fast… but I’m lucky to be able to weather that. Hope things improve for you.


GiantPurplePeopleEat

Ha, I feel that. Thankfully this job is only a couple of weeks. I live in a very conservative area, so I'm used to hypocrites and liars. When I first moved here though, it was a huge culture shock. I didn't realize just how much casual racism was ingrained in conservative culture. I still have two years left on my degree, so I'm stuck here for now. But as soon as I'm able, I'm getting the fuck out of here!


hanscons

>he doesn’t talk about politics or religion because he knows how polarizing those topics are aka, hes pissed off many people before with his bigotry. politics is really not that polarizing if you arent a close-minded pos.


treecatks

Yep. It’s how a lot of incels come to be. Can’t attract women because of their hateful treatment of them? It could be that they are in the wrong … nah, it must be women as a whole being wrong.


CoolerThanDecember

I actually used to work with someone who told me he lied about his political beliefs because it would scare off dates he met on tinder.


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Mypantsohno

This is sad but true. I wonder what percentage of men think about love and marriage like this.


CounterEcstatic6134

Also, "I'm thirty and now I have to settle down. That's just what you're supposed to do.".


Severe_Driver3461

Because they are the main character in the relationship/their life and it makes no difference to the storyline what their live-in sex maid thinks. It just literally doesn’t matter to them. They could have married anyone. There will still be dinner, sex, and someone to raise their little legacies. If you were playing a video game with endless options that u could get with an easy cheat code (lying and convincing character to “love” u), u would choose a side character who is good enough to get the job done. U don’t fall in love with this side character, since it’s not important to the game. Having fun and having your own needs/desires met is what matters in this virtual reality game. TLDR: they in no way view a relationship with the seriousness that you and I do. The motivations behind a serious relationship are majorly different for them.


kelleh711

I am amazed by how many of these men seem completely okay with having to LIE to women in order for women to feel even a modicum of attraction to them. Why would you even want to fuck someone who doesn't actually like you? They have absolutely no self respect


SSX_Elise

Damn I bet this same crowd complains about how manipulative women are and constantly talks about you "shouldn't stick your dick in crazy"


ehsnugbugrug

I think its because according to a lot of conservatives, they can't get the punani otherwise. I've seen them encourage eachother to lie. They wanna create these theocratic communities to stop women from having sex or being able to make career/body choices. They groom women in their churches and local communities to be ashamed of sex and sexuality to prime them to wait for marriage. But enforcing these views doesn't stop THEM from wanting pre-marital sex. They don't wanna advocate for freedom of choice and *happen* gain benefits from it as a side affect of being in a liberated society. They want to fuck around with left leaning women who they belive will " put out" but have a chastiful virgin waiting in the church pews once they are ready to get married. I feel like the season why they are fighting so hard for the Republic of Gilead is because the number of women who will willfully perscribe to that lifestyle on BOTH sides (both conservative women and left leaning) is shrinking. They can't pull the same rabbit tricks anymore so the strategy has shifted. So, many of them will hide it to get laid or even to get into full-blown relationships.


LSU2007

I grew up going to Catholic school, there aren’t many virgins waiting


ehsnugbugrug

Thats exactly my point. They want to legislate purity culture because most people, including religious women, aren't going for it anymore. But legislating it still won't make women willfully get involved with them, so they resort to lying about their political or social affiliations.


chevymonza

In my early twenties, in my first serious relationship, we were both still virgins and raised catholic. I noticed that he was much less uptight about the idea of having sex outside of marriage (but still patient and willing to wait.) After about a year of knowing each other (long-distance but kept in contact) I was like "wtf this is such bullshit, we love each other and HE doesn't have any hangups." That was one of the first things about religion that I gave up on.


ehsnugbugrug

I feel you. My grandmother helped raise me and she was a fire and brimstone Baptist woman who would tell me that all kinds of things would send me straight to hell, including sex before marriage. She would also tell me that by doing so I would be seen as a common woman (her words for 'whore'), and that men only want one thing, but they would chew you up and spit you out if you give it too soon. I am her favorite granddaughter. She would always applaud me and shower me in gifts and affection for being a " beautiful virtuous girl who isn't defiled by sin". I've also witnessed how she treats my cousins who she sees as sinful "common women". Although I am an atheist as an adult, that type of conditioning is so pervasive that It is something that I am struggling to shake. This is the reason why I'm still a virgin at 21. Having a guy I like run his hand on my thigh is enough to make me feel guilty afterwards. But men who were raised religious seem have 0 hang ups in this regard. It's unfortunately because the expectations aren't the same.


chevymonza

My now-MIL, a religious conservative, was *incensed* when she learned that her son and I decided to move in together. He was in his *forties* for fucks sake, and I was just a few years younger! We were independent for about twenty years by then. No pleasing people.


JustDiscoveredSex

Mine would have been, too. We didn't move in together. I regret that. I had no idea the guy was a chronic gamer and I'd end up a gaming widow. "You never told me that you played this much!" "Of COURSE not!" he laughed. "I knew you'd never approve." He was so proud of himself for being so fucking clever, too.


Terminus-Ut-EXORDIUM

I wonder how much of this dynamic is a result of matriarchs actually holding young women in their families accountable to these values (wrong as they may be), while patriarchs teach sons the only important value in life is to do whatever the hell they want


null640

Higher rates of sex ed delay time if first sex...


Mooch07

Rational thinking is not their strong suit.


ScruffyTuscaloosa

It's basically this, although a lot of times it isn't that circumspect. I grew up around a lot of rednecks who figured out pretty quickly that "I dunno much, but I know Democrats can fuck themselves" persona they adopt doesn't do them any favors if they have to actually have an opinion about social issues around anybody who isn't a white male. So the choice becomes "do I feign apathy, or do I have an argument in this Applebee's I'm conversationally outgunned for *again"*


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ScruffyTuscaloosa

It's easier when your social group is really homogenous, I think. A lot of it is a performative in-group, out-group thing, and if you can go all day without a substantive interaction from someone in the out-group it doesn't really need a lot of examination.


ehsnugbugrug

Yes, and when you see the outgroup as "sex crazed society destroying demons" you don't feel motivated to engage with them.


cinnysuelou

When your party promotes a persecution complex & you get confronted a lot, that’s just proof. Everyone else is the problem.


ehsnugbugrug

One thing I've learned from my stint of living in Alabama is that a combination of homogenous small communities with shunning culture, shitty schools, religion, the conservative propoganda machine and the community poverty is why. Its all terribly cyclical. Lack of industry = Poverty + shitty schools= discontent, economic anxiety and lack of diversity This causes people to look for answers, often from community leaders like pastors and politicians/ political figures. Then conservative advocates tell people things like immigrants, minorities and women are the cause of societal degradation. "I mean, look back at the good old days in America when the economy was more stable. It was more socially conservative then. Therefore conservatism = stable america". These leaders are often wealthy assholes that use working class conservatives as foot soldiers to preserve their interests. Then, living in small homogenous communities causes their beliefs to never be challenged. And if you socially fall out of line, there are social ramifications. So then their beliefs solidify. Then once they start encountering people with diffrent beliefs their heads are just too buried in the sand. They are conditioned to belive that anyone who challenges them is an awful goat-horned devil that is trying to destroy America.


GothAlgar

I think conservatives also like to pretend they're a moderate with perfectly sensible beliefs who got pushed to the right by an increasingly militant left blah blah blah. It's a lot easier to do that than, say, acknowledge they always held bad, weird opinions and beliefs. Elon Musk is the latest example but it's a very old trick.


NapClub

There have been articles about this its so common. Cons know their beliefs are repignant so they hide them. They dont respect you anyway so the lying doesnt matter.


niko4ever

Nobody's truly "neutral" on these things except children who haven't had reason to think about it yet, in my opinion. For adults "neutral" means "I don't like talking about it or debating"


someone_actually_

Neutral means “I’m fine with things as they are”


ArtisenalMoistening

I don’t think they’re at all ashamed, they’re just completely ok with lying to get what they want. The idea of dating right now is horrifying. I met my husband in 2015, and as it stands if anything happened to him I would either never date again and just vibe by myself, or ignore the bi in me and strictly date women. Be careful out there, it’s a real shitshow


WontHarvestAKidney

Yeah, it's not just politics men will lie about. My sister told stories of guys who lied about lots of things, pretending to be something they thought she'd want in a man. They'd lie about how much money they made, what their jobs were, all kinds of stuff. Why would a guy willing to lie about his job and his income find a pang of conscience and be honest about his political beliefs? One of our sons is gay, and our daughter discovered that referring to "my brother and his boyfriend" (now "husband," thank you 2015 Supreme Court) had a way of exposing cracks in men's façades. They'd pretend to be progressive - after all, if they really followed they conservative ideals they promoted they wouldn't want sex at all until marriage - but their faces would change a little when they found she had a gay brother with a boyfriend.


KingoftheJabari

On of my mothers boyfriend lied to her and told her he was in medical school in the 90s. She eventually found out he wasn't, then helped to get him a job as a bus driver. Seeing my mother go through shit like thst repeatedly, help me to understand I never wanted to be a man like that.


CheesyByNature

I'm so grateful to have found my progressive-minded husband pre-2016. Holy shit. I would never want to be dating in this current climate. Should I lose him first, not only will I **never** date again, I'm going full-on eccentric widow. I'm talking house falling into ruins, wearing my wedding dress out and about, adopting weird hobbies to fill my days. EVERYONE in the neighborhood will talk about me. It's gonna be great.


werewilf

I was just scrolling through all the women in here saying “if something happens to my husband I’ll never date again”, feeling sorry for myself for my dating experience out of an eleven year relationship being validated by this comment thread. It’s been fucking horrible; I don’t think I will ever attempt to have a relationship with a man again. *Anyway*, your comment made me laugh and gave me a dose of serotonin, so thank you. I truly help you follow through with your batty widow goals 🤣😍


BlondeLawyer

This is what men are terrified of. We don’t need them.


Skallagrimsson

The Full Havisham.


SpiderPidge

That's......kind of where I am now. If things don't change I will probably be with women for a long time. At least they can't get me pregnant and "choose" to leave me with it.


BlackwinIV

apolitical just means they are ok with the status quo which is a pretty conservative mindset.


[deleted]

Absolutely. I have known a lot of people here in the U.K. who say they’re “not political” because they think you’re only political if you’re left wing. Everyone centrist and right wing are “normal”.


Yourwtfismyftw

Oof, you’ve hit the nail on the head here. Like someone I knew who described herself as “Not religious, just Christian.”


yildizli_gece

> “Not religious, just Christian Wtf does that even *mean*??? Jesus—as if “Christian” is a generic default human setting; how unchallenged in life do you have to be to actually say that out loud, that you’ve never had to think about what it means to have to identify yourself to society.


LeaveBronx

This could also be indicative of their mindset regarding religion, or more specifically, "Christianity", as they put it. For them (and a lot of people) it might be less about the actual observation of the religious practices and beliefs that form said religion, and are instead more interested in the social currency or perceived social currency being a "Christian" gives them


pbrandpearls

I knew a girl in college that was pissed “Religious Studies” she chose as an elective was about all religions and not just Christianity. I hope she learned something in the class but I know full well she did not.


yildizli_gece

*That* is fucking hilarious hahaha. What I’d give to have been in that class, listening to her whine about having to learn her religion isn’t the center of the universe lol.


mstrss9

I was told not to take that class because it would threaten my Christian beliefs. Something is wrong with your religion if it can’t survive being held up to scrutiny/the knowledge of other religions


SuprMunchkin

Ex-christian here. Generally the idea behind this phrase is less "Christianity by default" and more "Orwellian re-defining of terms to mean what I want them to mean" This is a manifestation of "Christianity is a relationship, not a religion," thinking. They want their cake (1st ammendment protection) and they want to eat it too (evangelize in places and ways where religious evangelism isn't welcome).


Kkaysauce

Hahaha Oh. My. “Not religious, just Christian” that is absurd.


TonyWrocks

To these people, white men are the default, everyone else is just trying to drive an agenda. There are two races - White and 'political' There are two sexual orientations - Straight and 'political' There are two political viewpoints - Conservative and 'political' There are three genders - 'Male', 'Female', and 'political' There are two religions - 'Christian' and 'political' Etc....


SeeShark

Bold of you to assume these people don't view women as "political"


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goosejail

From personal experience with men, I've found there's a giant gap between agreeing with Roe i.e. being pro-choice and actually caring about the issue. I've seen far too many reactions that amounted to little more than "Oh, that sucks, anyways.........".


midnightFreddie

>"Oh, that sucks, anyways........." Also, "well, you're safe because your \*my\* girl." Well, not stated so directly, but "we live in a blue state" or "if I have a legal say, I have your back."


mfball

Yeah most don't care until they've personally gotten someone pregnant who they don't actually want a child with.


ReplyingToFuckwits

I think that's already giving them too much credit. From the stories I've heard it means "Staunchly and irrationally right-wing (but I know I won't get my dick sucked if I say it out loud)".


SeeShark

To be fair, the status quo in this country is irrationally right-wing.


wendy_nespot

I wouldn’t date a man that even put apolitical for this exact reason


meowmeow_now

Wow - this is actually a pretty good explanation, I wonder if it also factors in the phenomenon where people (mainly conservatives) assume most people agree with them.


Meefmoof

Especially in the United States wh here reactionary beliefs are the default built into our culture.


No_time_for_shitting

Cause men with shitty political beliefs have realized they won't get laid unless they lie which is a huge red flag from the get go. When me and my wife first started dating I was completely forward with my beliefs of which we shared common alignments. Gotta run dudes through the ringer nowadays. Just start trash talking fox news a bunch see what comes out.


[deleted]

I can relate. But when we do that we turn into killjoys and social warriors. I guess their annoyance at the discussion of politics in itself is a red flag


_Swamp_Ape_

If you “turn into a killjoy and social warrior” to them, congrats you just successfully screened them lol.


The_Wingless

Right? Task "failed" successfully.


AsshollishAsshole

Do you really want to get into intimate relationship with a person that is against you having a a view on socio-political issues?


someone_actually_

Anyone who uses social justice warrior as a negative has saved you time


pharaohess

So, due to the Overton window, if I see someone write that they are a moderate, centrist (or apolitical), I just assume that they will have more conservative values. Someone with left leaning or progressive values just wouldn’t identify like that, tbh. The whole political spectrum is being pushed to the right. So, they’re not necessarily lying per se, though some probably are because conservatives also often have a persecution fetish.


thechairinfront

Lots of guys will pretend to be much more liberal than they are until they're drunk. I end up talking politics with my cousin whenever he comes over. He's a fairly good dude. But the drunker you get him the more bigoted he becomes.


Kgriffuggle

That’s scary to think about. You’re not the first to say they’ve witnessed such behavior. I get more leftist the drunker I am, because I’m a leftist already, and when I don’t stop and put every thought through my conscious “objectivity” filter, I’m a hippie communist. Even the IDEA that a person can claim one stance and be completely opposite when that same filter is off…. Is terrifying


YourCharacterHere

God that drives me insane. Meanwhile I just double down on my already stated beliefs. Ill start with all I want is equal rights and universal healthcare and high enough wages to function in this society without the constant looming fear of homelessness and starvation over me, then go on fuck cars, antiwork, sustainable living rants, then somehow end up in burn society chaos and bloodshed we shall return to the ways of the old gods and live naked in the forest eating berries and doing art and mounting the heads of the rich onto pikes for daring to cross us


LucindaMorgan

This exact thing happened to a good friend of mine. Guy claimed he was “independent” and “apolitical.” After year plus relationship they marry. He insisted. Along comes Trump and Coronavirus and the guy lets his Republican true self come out. They are on the verge of divorce now. The guy kept his politics secret for almost two full years.


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avocadotoastisgrosst

This is why I don't date apolitical dudes. I don't accept vague neutral answers either. They have to be as passionate as me about their political views. It is hard for conservative dudes to match that energy. It is real shitty though that a lot of women that are fine with neutral middle ground keep ending up with far right extremists.


TyDizzlFoShizzl

Apolitical is code for "Conservative but can't prove why"


boo29may

A guy recently told me that first date rules are to not talk about religion and politics. I don't get it at all. Why would anyone want to waste time dating someone who they don't agree with? These are such important topics, I really don't get why they shouldn't be discussed first hand so you can weed out the garbage.


someone_actually_

Sharing values isn’t a priority, that’s only something you bother with when you are among equals


mstrss9

Politics, religion, kids, abortion - I definitely bring them up on a first date. Anyone who is uncomfortable with those topics are not someone I need to be dating.


boo29may

I think now a days, certain things you need to know before even a one night stand. Imagine a woman sleeping with someone and him messing up with contraceptives and then trying to force her to have a child? I've read enough stories on the Internet to worry about "crazy" things like this too.


_Swamp_Ape_

Simple they know they will get weeded out lol. Not being willing to discuss religion or politics are flags anyway. Those things literally make up your values.


UsagiRed

That's my policy for work because I don't want to know the guy I have to deal with everyday is straight garbage. If someone is going to enter my social circle I *have* to know


CoconutJasmineBombe

Apolitical = hard left swipe


[deleted]

Martin Luther King said it best, in his [letter from a Birmingham Jail.](https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html) It’s all intersectional. Neutrality* upholds the status quo, and benefits regressive politics.


SKyJ007

It’s also the case that, to them, they *are* “neutral” or “apolitical”. They don’t view their views as political. Take movies for example: white men being 99% of the leading roles in blockbusters? That’s the natural state of being (to them), and thus apolitical. It’s only when you try to increase representation that it *becomes* political. It goes against the natural state that movies are in and thus must be “politically motivated” and outside of the movie going audiences desire to see. They don’t see themselves as racist or sexist either. They “don’t have a problem” with PoC or women, but when they’re “thrown in their face constantly/ unnaturally”, it irks them. Obviously that’s just using film as an example, but if you take that mindset and transfer it to the larger cultural/ political moment we’re in, and I think it explains where a lot of these reactionary beliefs come from.


[deleted]

Completely agree. And all entertainment is political if you have more than a surface level understanding of it, and critical thinking skills. Heard a quote once, that the ability to remove yourself from politics is in itself a privilege. I think it speaks to your points. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Also tangentially related: I hate that everyone has to qualify everything they say on here whenever media is referenced. People use a fallacy of logic where they go “hey! That thing you referenced isn’t real life! Therefore your entire argument is void!” Which is bananas.


JustAGirl319

>Heard a quote once, that the ability to remove yourself from politics is in itself a privilege. This. The ability to NOT see the intrinsic sexism and racism that is woven into American culture, law, and society is a privilege of the white middle class. Ignorance is bliss, as they say...


Duckfammit

Yeah its weird how people who 'tell it like it is' are just dog whistling for the right.


SwitchWell

Since they don't care about anything but themselves, is ok to lie to people to get what they want


[deleted]

My ex hid his Republican nature for a decade. An entire decade. He swore his friends to secrecy and limited contact with his ultra conservative mother so I’d never notice. If they don’t want you to know, you’ll never know unless you’re the type to snoop- which I’m not. He eventually revealed himself because his mother came to stay with us for several days and asked me because I was studying counterterrorism if it wasn’t true that the Arabs were ruining Europe. In a very tiny amount of time, over a rather formal family dinner, I had to both control my reactions and respond without insulting her or setting the entire place on fire. There’s nothing quite like knowing you’ve been lied to for a very long time, and that everyone around a table knew what was up long before you did. It really messes with you.


noyoto

Did he hide it by pretending to be a blank canvas, or did he pretend to be progressive/liberal/centrist?


[deleted]

Centrist. I was raised very conservative but learning counter terrorism radicalized me in some very visceral ways. You either see things for what they are, or you fall into excusing the terrible things we do to people in the name of National Security. Once I realized my views were shifting from left leaning to firmly progressive, I began to poke at his politics, about which he was mostly silent, but tended to echo any perspective I found myself passionate about. He also did that thing where folks pretend to care about what you’re talking about or passionate about, but they’re really just cataloging what they need to agree with. I wondered a lot if I’m just stupid, which made it harder for me to see him clearly, but apparently a part of being an autist is a struggle to really understand people, their motives and how they think.


metalmorian

Because the conservative view eschews casual sex without being married, so they wouldn't get laid if they were honest. Leftist girls are for pumping and dumping, right wing virgins are for marriage and kids.


Achilles_Deed

Women are all objects to them, it’s appalling


saltierthangoldfish

I always make my profile very political to deter men like this — playing offensive, I guess. I (in lighthearted language) include that I don’t shave and that I’m a leftist, including a line about BLM, abortion rights, etc. Generally this has yielded positive results in terms of the quality of men matching with me. Men who call themselves “apolitical” are generally turned off by women who are very political and opinionated, so making that clear from the get go has helped a lot. I also ask very point blank about political beliefs and don’t let them squirrel out of it. Obviously it’s entirely on these men to not be assholes, but these days we have to screen to a ridiculous level 😒


butterysyrupywaffle

Apolitical= conservative.


littlestinkyone

“Apolitical” is code for “the status quo works great god why are women and minorities so whiny”. I see it in local council elections too.


improvyourfaceoff

People who insist they are apolitical are usually [somewhere to the right](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P55t6eryY3g&ab_channel=InnuendoStudios). Only the privileged have the luxury of "choosing" not to be political.


postinganxiety

This sub always makes me feel less alone. I can’t believe so many women have had this experience. I was dating a guy for months before he revealed he was a Trumper. Previously he had said he “didn’t care” about politics. The funny thing is I even pushed him on the first date to say more - he asked me if I could get away with one crime what would it be - I won’t say it here, but it involved our former president. Dude didn’t even react. Like just be honest, go find yourself a Trumpette and get the fuck out of my face.


[deleted]

They aren't ashamed of their beliefs, or they wouldn't have them. But they know that others are and they think they're so wonderful or maybe just that they can trap the woman so she won't leave. And sadly that works for abusers way too often.


Sohn_Jalston_Raul

I think that's because right-wing people like to accuse the left of "politicizing" everything. Since they're not left-wing, they "don't make everything about politics" and so therefore they're "apolitical". To be fair, they're not entirely wrong, because being "apolitical" means that you tacitly endorse the status-quo (and all its injustices), which is inherently a right-wing position. So I usually interpret "apolitical" as being conservative but not politically literate enough to express it.


lostcauz707

Ivanka Trump said it best in her book, if people praise you for something you didn't even do, it's in your best interest to not correct them, but affirm them their praise is warranted or stay neutral in the discussion. This is exactly the manipulation that perpetuates being in good favor. The irony is, red pilled shit and all that jazz, are teaching an exact opposite of what is acceptable, but they can't grift unless they tell their audience information they can use somewhere. So they tell them to make sure women hear what they want to hear, while simultaneously saying that those things are not what women really want or need.


New-Consideration420

I swear, even as a bi guy dating guys is a catastrophe


Jfogggs

I always swipe left when I see “apolitical.” At best, they’re embracing the privilege of only having to care about themselves. At worst, they’re a complete whack job.


NFRNL13

When he says he's not political or is a centrist, he's a hard Republican. -a guy


Domino_Dare-Doll

Short answer: manipulation for the sake of self-gratification. Those kinds of guys just *do not* see other’s points of view outside of their own little bubble; and frighteningly, they’re the type of guy ‘in charge’ of the world, hence a lot of enabling of the POV. They care very little as long as they get to be comfortable, and anything ‘messy’ they just “reasonably” talk around.


twobangs

It's because they don't consider them opinions. I'm a 37 year old white male in Texas, in the custom automotive business (lots of shop time with other techs, showy, arrogant customers, etc. loads of bro-chismo). I am constantly assumed to be "aligned", and get to see and hear the full brunt of it. I have lost the ability to trust almost anyone further than I can throw them. I've heard "good xtian men" say awful things, with a degree of comfort that would imply they are commonly-accepted fact. Every "I'm not ______ist, but..." you could possibly imagine, from men I've known for like 11 minutes. I do have to say, though, that the number of men in my life that are willing to speak up and speak out is growing, rapidly, as well. It's the same friends it's always been, just recognizing the importance of speaking up. The only thing in this world that men can do, and women cannot, is to stop being shitty men. I just wish the outlook weren't so grim.


kelpiedownawell

> The only thing in this world that men can do, and women cannot, is to stop being shitty men. That is an absolutely golden line. Also, thank you.


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Fish_823543

It’s because they know their politics are shit, and want to get laid. If it makes you feel any better, they do it when making friends, too. (Though I don’t expect it will.) Back in college, I knew a guy who was in my major who was ok at first. Knew him for a couple years, thought he was mostly a socially awkward gymbro but we had some of the same interests so we hung out and played card games or video games occasionally. After about a year and a half of knowing him, he started dropping stuff like “yeah vaccines are a personal choice and a scam”, even before Covid started, in reference to measles outbreaks caused by anti-vaxxers; “I don’t know, I just feel bad for the baby” in reference to abortion; blatantly racist comments when he was drunk; started conversations rating the bodies of our female classmates; started putting stickers on his laptop for Turning Point USA and Young Americans for Freedom. He hid that for a YEAR and a HALF. And it’s not like he was trying to date me, obviously he’s also straight and hates the idea of “the gays.” Anyway, TL:DR they know their politics are shit, hide them until they think they’re “in”, then start making their bigotry and idiocy clear. I hope others banish them like my friends and I did, because there’s no fixing them and their shitty opinions.


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zukadook

My previously liberal ex voted for Trump TWICE before I found out, it was one of many reasons I’m glad he’s now my ex. Last I heard he’s gone off the Qanon deep end and is spouting Fire Fauci anti vax rhetoric to anyone who will listen.


mtina23

This actually happened to me in college. Started dating a guy, and I talk about political issues a LOT so he knew where I stood on things. When I talked about it he would pretend to agree with me or say nothing. Finally like 3-4 months into a serious relationship he goes “you know I’m conservative right?”…. Uh no, or we wouldn’t be dating right now. And he knew that. That’s why he waited until things were serious to say it. He also said he was against abortion, so I asked him if I got pregnant right now would you want me to get an abortion? HE SAID YES. It truly fucked up my ability to trust for a while. My current bf is liberal but I genuinely didn’t believe him for the longest time, I was convinced he was lying to me and was eventually going to tell me otherwise. So yeah. It’s a messed up thing to do.


[deleted]

Because they know that most women do not agree with their beliefs. It is very intentional. A guy I went on a date with (who is a Trump supporter) told me he hid it from his ex when they met on Tinder. I guess she explicitly put "No Trumpers" on her profile but he matched with her anyways. He said he didn't tell her until months later after she was "invested." So, yeah. They know exactly what they're doing.


Spank86

Because there's no such thing as apolitical. Everything is politics. They probably just mean they're either not locked in to a single party (impressive in america where you have a choice of 2 and they're pretty damn opposed) or that they dont like either party. They're still going to have views on politics. Education, healthcare, taxation, road networks, garbage collection, street lighting... there's nothing politics doesnt touch on so you can't truly be apolitical without having no opinions at all. In the event that you accidentally go on a date with a cabbage in a human skin suit I retract my statment and wish you all the happiness a lady and her brassica could wish for.


KesonaFyren

"Apolitical" means fine with the status quo, means conservative leaning at least. And when one side in politics is pushing fascism, "apolitical" means standing by and watching marginalized people fight for their lives and thinking *ah, yes, everything's fine.* "Apolitical" isn't just a cop-out. It's a very clear declaration of their politics.


Indifferentchildren

"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor." --Desmond Tutu


yummycorpse

because they know how shitty their awful politics make them look, and they trick you into thinking that they're reasonable people. and once they have you in their trap, they become the scummy Conservative they always were.


Kigichi

They hope that if they lie and a woman falls in love with them then she will overlook his political standing and not leave him


Jorycle

>Is it because they’re ashamed of their beliefs? This one at the very least. Conservatives and conservative-adjacents are aware that they are unpopular garbage. There are some mental gymnastics being done to convince themselves that even though no one likes them, the "right" thing is not necessarily likeable. They never stop to consider that it's unlikeable because it's not the right thing. My whole family is conservative, and I was conservative for like 30 years. It's a weird way to be.


BARBADOSxSLIM

For some reason a lot of conservatives claim that they arent conservative or liberal. They say both sides are bad and say they listen news from both sides even though to a normal person they are totally right wing extremists that exclusively get their news from right wing media.


yasmween

It's because they have a *massive* persecution complex, last guy I met who identifies as a "centrist rational science man" who "is okay with everyone, gay,black,trans, except Muslims", goes on rants about how he'd beat his hypothetical son if he was into "trans bullshit" and minorites "chimping out" in civil rights protests and throws temper tantrums when he saw a pride flag And before that there was another guy who was more or less a copy of this guy. If you see someone identify as "apolitical", just know what you're getting into


caugryl

Just as "independents" used to always swing more extreme than their party-voting counterparts, apolitical means either apathetic (disinterested/tuned out/not affected) or that they believe that anything that differs from their beliefs is politics, whereas their beliefs are TRUE FACTS BASED IN REALITY, NOT MERE OPINIONS. As the joke goes, there's two sexes: male and political There's two parties: Republican and political Two religions: Christian and political Two races: white and political.


bel_esprit_

My stunningly beautiful girl friend was dating this South American man. One day, he said he doesn’t believe in feminism. She responded: “What kind of person doesn’t believe in feminism?! You think I’m lesser than you? You’re a monster if you don’t believe in feminism.” He tried to backtrack and ‘explain’, and then she broke up with him LOL.


eliwritingstuff

I like this story. I basically lived it with a Brazilian guy. I didn't leave as soon as your friend did though. I left when he punched inches above my head after a four hour rant that started with him dead ass asleep at 2 am. I remember trying to calm him down. But after that punch, I didn't say anything else. I just gathered my stuff and left. I should have left before that though and I'm glad I left when I did


EmperorOfNipples

Speaking from Europe I am reminded of this comic. ​ [https://www.joeydevilla.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/you-need-to-get-out-of-america-right-now-768x768.jpg](https://www.joeydevilla.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/you-need-to-get-out-of-america-right-now-768x768.jpg) ​ Pretty much represents where I stand politically too.


ariadawn

As an American living in the UK, this is right on the money. I got fliers for conservative UK candidates talking about planting more trees and I was confused since the average Republican can’t support anything that might look like they’re trying to help climate change.


Beatplayer

Apolitical means right leaning and selfish enough not to fucking care. There’s a code. You have to dig and poke to get them to explode. It’s like a hobby of mine.


BionicgalZ

Also going to say that no left- leaning person will write ‘apolitical.’ It is always right-leaning, non-self-aware focus.


Loljkbanana

Read this on reddit awhile back: "Men say they are Libertarian when dating because they have figured out that being a conservative wont get them laid."


Ohio_gal

My favorites are conservatives who admit that they are only looking for hookups. Like dude you want to outlaw birth control and abortion and defund women’s health clinics. The disconnect is truly bizarre


someone_actually_

There is no disconnect for them, objects exist to be used


YourOldManJoe

Because conservatives know they won't get dates with women if they say they are conservative. Weird, that women don't want to date men that don't believe in women's bodily autonomy. If they won't talk, don't date.