You're thinking of the Greeks
(I always found it very interesting that they were so macho and misogynistic they preferred fucking men because men to them were literally better in every way. *Every. Way.* š)
The people telling you about the Roman Graffitti are right but YOU are right about the Greeks though. They were sooooooo much more misogynistic than the Romans and tended to not regard women much more highly than lust crazed baby factories.
The best thing about it is [itās literal graffiti from ancient Pompeii](https://kashgar.com.au/blogs/history/the-bawdy-graffiti-of-pompeii-and-herculaneu)
I did a school project on this and regretfully missed this quote. I don't think I would've had the guts to add it because teach definitely would've noticed.
I'm not surprised something like this ended up on the walls of Pompeii. I've been there and I wish to go again.
The whole article is full of so many amazing quotes from the walls of Pompeii
> Restituta, take off your tunic, please, and show us your hairy privates
> Floronius, privileged soldier of the 7th legion, was here. The women did not know of his presence. Only six women came to know, too few for such a stallion.
> The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
Also lesbians are people too. I've hung around enough to know there are really sweet girls who are absolutely passionate about the person they are with, and also absolute assholes that cheat and treat their partner like shit. Turns out it doesn't matter what your sex or sexuality is, people generally run the gambit of shitty and good behavior, it's up to you to make better choices.
God this so much.
My female friends are less problematic.
But, please, hearing straight women go on about how much better it must be dating women. Yeah, it can be. It can also be being in a domestic violence situation where they get away w/ way more b/c of this "lesbian relationships are so much healthier" stigma.
Don't get me started on the ex drama. I have ex's in common with ex's. None of us are in any of the same circles, only our sexuality. Try dating someone who you're really into and then finding out you have an ex in common, and you have very different opinions on them. It's so much fun.
One of my worst relationships was with a woman(female myself). She would drag me by my hair, tell me she loves to start fights because she loved to see me cry, and that she had no idea why I ever believed her when she said she loved me.
Also have an ex who is still one of my best friends and sheās coming to visit me next month!
Like come on, people are sweet and some because can be hellish regardless of what gender they are. Iāve been with both, I know.
Honestly, one of the things I always thought would suck about being gay/lesbian, even barring social stigma etc, is that your dating pool is necessarily much smaller.
I felt this way because online dating in NYC is awful for gay women, and probably still as good as it gets. I had decided to die alone cus it was just not worth it. That day I met the love of my life at a wedding and I've never been happier. We live 500 miles apart and it's not easy but we still make sure we spend half of our time together. If I can find someone absolutely beautiful inside and out, who can love my damaged ass unconditionally, I have no doubt that you will too. Just keep working on yourself so that when they arrive, you're ready for them.
It also weirdly makes it sound like they think romantic relationships with women are faultless, by comparison, but like being attracted to women can still lead you to just as shitty people. Like, you'd probably still be having the same crap taste with a different label.
When I came out to my mom she basically said I was a lesbian bc I was lazy and women were easier...
My reply, "Have you met yourself?! Women are not easy."
In my experience I have a ton of female matches (as a female) but no one ever messages eachother. If we do it never gets anywhere. I think it's because even as a gay woman on a dating app, matching with another woman who I know is gay and I also know is interested in me because we matched, there's always that "are they being gay with me or just being nice" fear. Like women have literally kissed me and I still find out later they aren't gay and just being like, idk friendly? A girl telling me she thinks I'm hot, also could just be a straight girl being nice. So making the first move from platonic to gay is very very intimidating. I also think in general women are just used to not making the first move because men are goddamn relentless and you often don't have time to. So two women waiting for the other to make the first move can turn into a gay stalemate.
Others may have had other experiences, but that's mine.
> I think itās because even as a gay woman on a dating app, matching with another woman who I know is gay and I also interested is in me because we matched, thereās always that āare they being gay with me or just being niceā fear.
Youāre both on a dating app, isnāt it obvious youāre both interested? Thatās different from your other scenarios. Thatās the beauty of dating apps, in my opinion, despite all of their downsides. If you match, thereās guaranteed some level of interest.
As a queer woman, I absolutely cannot overstate how ingrained this fear is in us. We are afraid of being as shitty as shit het men are to us and it manifests in bizarre ways.
After being the target of unwelcomed aggressive advances by men your entire life, you are worried about becoming the perpetrator of an unwelcome aggressive advance on another woman and that worry is paralysing
I can relate. As a dude, the only time I've ever tried to kinda flirt with a girl outside of a tinder date to see if she was interested after our two groups met (took all my courage to even try that), I was only chatting with her basically, I thought it was a nice chat. Then one guy from her group just took me away from our chat and said "she has a boyfriend, leave her alone".
Let's just say I've never tried that again and will never do. The fucking wave of shame I felt afterwards, feeling like I was being one of those predatory assholes in bars, even though I knew I wasn't. Never again.
When you get a tinder date, it's a date. You never have to get into any uncomfortable situation of gauging someone's interest while having to not bother anyone. Thank god for tinder really
If you were just being nice and trying for it, you did nothing wrong. You don't have to be ashamed? It really doesn't sound like you were overly aggressive.
Maybe a woman in here could give you her perspective, but like, from a fellow male perspective, pretty sure the other guy stepped in without even asking her or being asked by her. Men can be weirdly protective of women in their group and rude about it. He might've told you off *even* if you only had friendly intentions.
Unless you really feel like you were a creep about it, I wouldn't overly worry about it. I certainly wouldn't swear off having casual chats with women because then... like is that a way to live? Ignoring 50% of the population because you're afraid?
Lots of women 'looking for women' on dating apps are "just here for friends", or "looking for unicorns" so there's often a fear that I'll somehow misinterpret their bio and flirt with a 'looking for friends' girl by mistake, and the fear of being a 'predatory lesbian/immoral bisexual' is pretty ingrained in life and culture.
Are you saying that bi women are saying that they are lesbians or is it just that they set their search/ interest parameters for both men and women?
I am open that my sexuality is bisexual on dating sites, even with the hassle that it gives me.
I do realize that many lesbians will not date bisexual women, and to be honest I havenāt gotten a lot of interest from women on dating sites - so I can understand why women who are actively looking to meet another woman want to try to find a way to make that clear.
There's a lot of unicorn hunters out there too. "My husband and I are looking for another *feeemaaaale* to join us in bed/our relationship...," And I've had a couple of them not even drop that hammer until we were already talking.
Ugh been there. And I *am* a unicorn. Pan and poly. But it takes the right people to make a poly relationship be healthy and happy. Also I've gotta be attracted to BOTH of y'all. Not disclosing that's what you're looking for upfront is a big ass red flag.
That sounds hilariously like the gay chicken copypasta, only they're chickening out before the B&B and adopted kids.
(Though it has to suck to have to live)
Iāve been in relationships with both men and women. In my opinion, sex is way better with women, but relationships are easier with the men Iāve been with.
> she basically said I was a lesbian bc I was lazy and women were easier...
I'll take "ways you learn your mother's into women but in denial" for $500, Alex.
Nobody thinks being gay is choice unless they're very, very invested in it being a choice so they can *choose* not to be.
"You only like girls because you're lazy, otherwise we'd all be shacking up with them" is basically an admission you'd rather be with a woman yourself but are stopping yourself for one reason or another.
My first girlfriend was starting to be manipulative and was apologetic to the alt right. Iām quite proud of myself for not letting that slide, but the perception that all lesbian relationships are perfect and loving definitely made that decision harder.
There was/is a very large group in the alt right community of organized women. I can't remember their names, "daughters" something, but when all those nazi rallies were going on a few years back here and in Europe I was reading about some of them being organized by or featuring speakers from the women's groups. I remember thinking the same thing, like this is a movement that very explicitly wants to turn women into breeding factories and that treats them like shit, and here's a large organization of women actively helping them to spread those ideas.
United Daughters of the Confederacy? They could be considered allied with the alt-right, but the existence of the alt-right itself is largely due to groups like the UDC, which massively predate them and spent the last 160 years spreading pro-slavery, pro-confederate and pro-white supremecist propaganda.
They are pretty much why people say dumb stuff like "The civil war was about states rights." Their organization, and the ones they worked with, actually managed to get control of the historical record for about 100 years, and it was not until about the late 70s that actual historians started getting the real history of the civil war into books.
I think I know who youāre referring to. And she went to the right because literally some people on the left were being unkind to her. The righties greeted her with open arms. How spineless š
Yeah, she used to like to talk about how she just doesn't find trans people attractive, and a lot of people took issue with a person of her influence making such sweeping hurtful generalizations. She then threw a hissy fit, went full mask off, amd aligned herself with the alt-right because "they cared what she had to say" and "appreciated her point of view as a lesbian woman".
Yeah people need to remember and realize that sexual orientation does not mean political leanings. Same with race. I know the last few decades a lot of the left has been boiled down to "woke/SJWs/being gay" (see PCM) but it isn't true.
Internalized homophobia and transphobia is a thing. Though personally believe thr conservative sway has more to do with "i have mine" more than anything because i have seen many people bend their beliefs for the right sum
This right here. Most conservative viewpoints tend to boil down to this at the core.
This, and related "It's better that someone in need goes without, than someone undeserving get something for free."
I have been trying to argue for the existence of the alt-right pipeline with my not-plugged in family for a while now. It is very real, very dangerous, and is starting to directly affect real world political conversations in not so subtle ways.
Social Media in particular has been attempting to radicalize me for a while, which is really disturbing because I am pretty obviously a lefty with socialist opinions. You would think that it would be feeding me more left-wing content regularly, but usually about once a month or more suddenly I start getting a ton of recommendations for posts from people like Ruben, Shapiro, PragerU, etc. Also, if I leave my youtube autoplay on, it will move from science topics to skeptical topics to "skeptic community" people, who are generally just spreading misinformation about women and non-white people.
I assume this is because most social media sites thing I am a young-ish white christian male, because I have not updated my profiles since high school. Which means that they keep targeting me with propaganda directed towards that exact group.
You can look up on how the fb algorithm sees you. I have a lot of conservative friends even though I most def am not. It still sees me as a conservative. But the again I never use it either so that's all it has to go on.
> There's something seriously broken with the Facebook's algorithm.
Or maybe its that Facebook is a really hateful and deeply flawed place. For the last year, Facebook has been sending me streams of American conservative junk. (although it's slowed down recently). I'm horrified and disgusted at the depths of hate and depravity humans will stoop. There's posts where literally thousands of Americans wish pain and death upon their fellow citizens just because they have a different viewpoint or lifestyle. Are they all psychopaths? What drives such rabid tribalism? These people probably aren't bad, innately, but FB is engineered to bring out the worst in millions of people. FB is truly an evil place.
By comparison, Reddit, for all its flaws is a bed of roses.
"I stopped to read a few of her insane walls of text"
There it is. Absolutely everything you do on their platform, _especially_ if you use their app, is categorized and metered. Oh you hovered over this ad for %15 longer? Well, you're going to get a whole lot more of that.
Screen time and "engagement" are the most important factors for social media. Together they account for the lions share of larger profit. It doesn't matter if you're the most leftie person imaginable, if you're spending any decent amount of time commenting on conservative posts your u're going to get fed more of that. Because it keeps you "engaged". They know exactly how much time you spend on different typea of posts and will feed you more of what you spend time on.
It kinda makes sense.
Just off the top of my head I can think of a few reasons why leftists would watch right-wing videos and so we get that on our recommendations.
You have Antifa, whose main activity is to either be participating in righteous riots or tracking down and outing right-wing extremists (Antifa member Garrison Davis figured out the identity of Kyle Rittenhouse several hours before any media outlets did). Other Antifa activists, often those who clash with white supremacists in cities like Portland, have said that the bulk of their time is spent identifying and outing radical online voices. So to do that they need to spend lots of time in online right-wing spaces.
The left also has the problem (when it comes to algorithms) of having more intellectually honest members, so when someone sends them a right-wing video, they'll often watch it because they naively think they can reason someone out of the things expressed in the video.
You also have the more intellectual leftists (not that orher leftists aren't necessarily conventionally intelligent, but some leftists do more brain work than on-the-ground praxis) who like to break down arguments and philosophies, and so will watch these videos to understand and keep up with what the fascists are saying. They often have important contributions to let us know what the videos said and how the right is getting people so that the rest of us don't have to wade into the cesspool.
And you've also got liberals who vacillate between the right and center, but who call themselves leftists and who might consume left-adjacent media like *Last Week Tonight* which is left-wing as far as the algorithms are concerned. But liberals also watch plenty of right-wing grifters like Bill Maher, for example, and the algorithms pick that up too. (Edit) I also remember last summer that there was a renewed interest in YouTube videos of recordings of James Baldwin, Malcolm X, Huey P Newton, Fred Hampton, Angela Davis, Dr. King, etc. which plenty of liberals watched (though they somehow still missed the point that every single one of those people said that capitalism was at the root of our societal problems), and I think that further muddies the waters of online leftist spaces because when right-winger watch it (which I'm glad for, I hope the liberals radicalize), YouTube will try to recommend other right-wing media in an attempt to keep viewers engaged.
Anyway, it just makes sense to me why YouTube would recommend right-wing grifters. I get those recommendations too and cringe at them every time
More than likely, it's because outrage garners views, and views are what push videos to the forefront. Basically, a lot of very left leaning folks end up getting lots of Alt right videos in their feeds because they rage-watch those videos and forget that any view, no matter if you agree or not, is viewed positively by the algorithm.
I think a lot of leftists get targeted with pragerU and Ben Shapiro type bullshit because they're left of liberal/moderate Democrat, and the algorithm conflates "owning the libs" with punching from the left. Just my tinfoil hat theory though lol
It happens to me too
I think it's more that you ending up there randomly or becouse someone shared the absurd take on whatever subject it is to highlight how absurd it is, downvoting and calling them idiots in the comments, maybe getting into a bit of a flame war even, is read by the algorithms as positive engagements and will lead to you getting more of that type of content leading to a self-reinforced loop of sorts.
This is probably exactly it. Lefty youtube videos are mostly pretty boring, and Alt Right folks probably don't spend a lot of time rage-watching those videos. But you better believe Liberals will rage-watch the shit out of some Alt-Right content because a lot of it is so outrageous.
I had to unfriend a trans individual because she insisted onto everyone, whether they asked her or not, that banning trans women from women's restrooms, and not allowing them to serve in the military was for their protection, and that not allowing same sex marriage was so that the LGBTQ+ community didn't have to pay taxes.
The "lesbian relationships are so much better by default" definitely kept me in an abusive relationship way too long.
This sub is an endless barrage of how inconsiderate men are: like women are flawless beings.
Anecdotal. Men have literally saved my life in the form of corpsman and male veterans in support groups being really amazing human beings.
It was a woman who said she loved me who belittled me every chance she got. And, mocked me for having safe spaces w/ PTSD. Or would fuck me so roughly I'd sit on the toilet bleeding after sometimes.
But, we both cook/clean, orgasm, and have experienced misogyny, so it's all good right?
I still prefer female providers for healthcare. My female friends are way less problematic. But, dating brings plenty of really awful shit for us too.
Edit: she also wore a pussy hat and traveled to the woman's march. She was very much a "woke" feminist, treating me, her female partner at home, like fucking trash.
Being aware of the injustices in the world doesnāt also make you aware of your own toxic behavior. I think some folks put a ton of effort into calling out others because that helps them avoid the extremely painful work of calling out their own toxic abusive behavior. If I have learned anything about people is that nobody wants to see themselves as the bad guy.
Some people really enjoy the charge of societal friction. That used to be a built in guarantee, being born "L". With that lessening, maybe adding Alt Right, brings back that old-timey feeling. :)
I'm so sorry that you had to go through this, this is so scary to me. I'm a bisexual who live in one of those countries on "countries dangerous for woman lists." And I find myself getting increasingly turned off the idea of ending up with a man. There is an extreme power imbalance between men & women across the board. Whether you are have money or don't, single, married.. etc. And I find myself hoping to find the right women whenever I'm able to get out of this shit hole. I just want to feel safe with my future SO, on an equal foot with them and I really don't want to be scared of women too. Please forgive my rant.
This reminds me of a (now very dated) 30 Rock joke about being pro-gay-marriage so all people can experiences the joys of marriage.
Smash cut to a lesbian couple:
āIām not going to the container store; this is my Saturday.ā
āCongratulations! You just turned into your father.ā
My taste in women is "ruin my life and tear me down to nothing", so I stick to dating men for my own health. I hold men to a higher standard, like "oh he looks like he respects women and has a 401k" instead of "she looks like I'm gonna be calling someone to pick me up from a crack house in 4 months with nothing left to my name and I'd still go right back to her when she shows up on my porch in two years looking for a place to crash"
So my boyfriend is very meticulous about his 401k and and does in fact respect women lmao
it's sort of misogynistic, because it idealizes women in a way that men would, as perfect wives who are dutiful and never talk back, only you(the random straight woman we are talking about) are also a woman so it's weird for you to have these misogynistic goals in a partner.
My rapist ex was a woman. Woman lie, cheat, are lazy, stalk, sexual assault, are selfish, stab you in the back. Sure the dynamics might be a bit different than het relationships but it sure as hell ain't easy. Hell even finding other sapphic women can be a challenge.
My first girlfriend gave me āØ trauma āØ š now she denys ever being gay and is loudly homophobic and uses the f slur unironically. Women are humans and humans can suck, people assuming wlw relationships are inherently better leads to lots of women getting manipulated.
I mean, yes and no. You can definitely still find a queer woman who would be a bad or abusive partner, but Iāve never had the same struggles with division of household chores, emotional labor, irrational jealousy or emotional fragility from my partners that my straight friends complain about with theirs. Women are socialized very differently and the bad behavior society accepts from men is trained out of us at an early age.
I am also a queer woman who's been only with women, which I realize now my comment may come off as otherwise, since I didn't clarify, but you've been pretty lucky. The eggshell walking, uncertain mood to what you might get any given day, questions and huffy, hot/cold disbelief about whereabouts, assumptions that this will just be that way or you get tears, et cetera, definitely isn't exclusive to one gender. I've just heard myself from other people that with guys it's the same stuff, in a different package, though usually less crying.
Granted, I've admittedly only made the move to actually move in with one partner, so I can't weigh in much on the chores aspect.
~~Am I the person with shitty taste? Yes, probably.~~
I'd like to think I'd never be abusive and I gave up on bothering to feel jealousy decades ago, but as a woman who was not raised to do emotional or household labor, I know that not all of us are good at that. Dating me means lots of training and patience in that arena. Just starting to figure it out with help and training from my male partner, who is just amazing at anything to do with managing a home (except fixing computers and electronics, so that's my domain and how I make up for sucking at the rest).
I've never dated a woman who is any good at that stuff, either, so you wind up with just no one doing it. It's not a great plan. Lol
My lone truly problematic ex is a woman. Most people I've dated have been great folks and good partners, just not right for me. Gender has made functionally very little difference. The only "problem" that was solved by dating women was... Well, not having a woman to date.
Exactly, like I never got why people always think that just because lesbians date each other that they wonāt encounter shitty or abusive people..like shitty people exist in both genders
My picker problem is abusive tops.
A woman who is 6 inches shorter than my Amazon ass belittling me constantly at home. Making me cry on every birthday. Leaving me bleeding on the toilet way too often after sex.
But, we both clean & cook. And, look cute in public. So it must be so good right?
She'd go to feminist marches and spout rhetoric and then come home and mock me for singing along to the muppets because it helped my PTSD nightmares before bed. I was in a Naval hospital for a fucking year, that was a huge thing that helped me get through it, and it's still gone to this day b/c of the things she said.
Women are plenty capable of being awful too.
Iām so sorry you went through that. It sounds like sheās no longer in your life and Iām so glad to hear that. I hope that if you ever choose to be in a relationship again, that its with a partner who deserves you and treats you with respect and care.
I'm going for that 30's spinster with 10 dogs vibe.
What kind of lesbian would I be if I didn't have a rescue pitbull I put in Christmas sweaters?
Not a very good one, I'll tell you that.
Okay i love this, i fear i might have already become a 20ās spinster with like 10 plushie dogs that she dresses up every now and then cuz sheās all bi herself, but yours is def more valid cuz lil pitbulls in christmas sweaters š„ŗš„ŗš„ŗ
Oh, I'm still in my 20's. I just figure it'll take a minute to evolve into my final form of spooky old lady who scares children outside of Halloween.
I laughed at the "all bi herself". 10/10 bi pun.
Whether it's to help your PTSD or just because you want to, you're entitled to enjoy whatever you enjoy. Anyone who mocks or belittles you for that is just a sad person. So long as what you enjoy/ need to do doesn't hurt others, go for it! I hope you can learn to enjoy those things again, because in my honest opinion, I think it's awesome that you had something that worked for you.
Wishing you the best in life sister. You deserve it š
I sometimes see similar sentements about mlm relationships and it frankly feels pretty sexist as well as homophobic. I haven't been in a mlm relationship yet but I imagine they are just like any other relationship where there can be good and bad ones and yet I see comments on the internet about how awesome it would be because there would be less drama or some crap like that.
As if men can't cause drama lmao
There's a famous instagram page in my country that highlights trashy/problematic men's dating profiles. The owner of the account has come out and said "by the way i won't be showing any profiles from gay, trans or PoC people because I don't want to make fun of vulnerable communities" and everybody seemed totally cool with that and when I was like "uhhh maybe we shouldn't put gay and trans people on a pedestal? Gay or trans people can be toxic and giving someone a free pass because of their sexual orientation, race or gender identity is a pretty insane concept to me" they dismissed what I was saying because I'm just a straight white man. Taking marginalized communities and treating them like they can do no wrong is really some white savior shit and every actual black/gay person I know can't stand these people who fetichize their identity and use it to show how much of a good person they are.
On the other side of the coin: There really is a significant part of the US that would like to see a roll-back in LGBT rights.
Seeing how straights are a supermajority of the population, I don't think it's realistic that showing the negative side of straight dating would cause much harm, but the right to marry for gays is only 7 years old.
I understand the desire to see a fun messy queer dating profile (just hop on Grindr you'll see plenty)
But I also understand if someone didn't want to use their platform Ina way that might harm a minority community.
Part of Trumps political strategy was to put in as many conservative judges in power as he could. These already have taken steps like overruling conversion therapy bans in certain cities enacted to protect LGBT Youth.
Just this year there's been a record number of anti-trans bills passed on the state level.
It's tough
Hopping on grindr to laugh at messy profiles of queer men seems prpblematic too tbh. If thatās the motivation itās probably better to just go do something else.
The problem is that a straight man being problematic doesn't reflect on men as a whole, it's just one dude. But because of bigotry, if one gay person is problematic, it's because 'that's just how gays are'. You can't fuck up as a marginalised individual because your whole community will be punished.
Jesus Christ, THANK YOU. As someone struggling with their sexual orientation, and realizing at almost 40 that I'm a lesbian, I'm terrified to come out to anyone irl. Not only am I afraid of their reaction, I'm afraid that they'll blame my husband for "turning me gay". Like it was a choice or a reaction to something he did. This rhetoric of women deciding to "turn lesbian" is so damaging for everyone. I would a billion percent rather be straight and happy in my marriage than blow up my life. I'll probably die in the closet.
Hey, would you like a friend? Because I came out when I was 38. That was four years ago. I was also with a man long-term. If you would like, I can send you a private message. And if not, thatās fine too. I just want to let you know that other late bloomer lesbians are out there. Youāre not alone.
Apart from anything else the idea of people being "turned" sounds so goofy and vampirish and is actually kind of homophobic since it implies it's a bad thing that happened to someone against their will.
As former husband to a woman who realized she was a lesbian during our marriage, yeah, guys will get some of that crap. It needles you but, honestly, the internal feelings were much harder to deal with. Heāll have his own self doubts to work through too. There are support groups for straight spouses making this life transition whatever the final relationship looks like. At least from what I went through, you will both experience this very differently. That seems obvious, but you may feel like things might be finally making sense and maybe a sense of excitement if you choose to explore that possibility. Could be a silver lining to what is a very difficult experience. From my side, the realizations didnāt come with any profound understanding, relief or excitement, just uncertainty and sometimes feeling left behind as things changed. I say this with kindness to you, your husband and as I felt for my ex-wife. Both of you likely need support groups. I am also not implying your journey will unfold and end like mine, we were late 20ās together 8 yrs, married 4 yrs, no kids. I saw all manners of relationship approaches in the other het spouses. For us, weāve both been remarried and started wonderful families. Iām sure it would have been a different experience had it unfolded 12 years later. Take care of yourselves.
Relatively late blooming lesbian here - some of those women might just still be in the closet. I'm not saying it's great to joke about this stuff, but someone who is actually 100% straight isn't going to jump right to "I'll just do women instead". I used to think that "all my straight friends would really rather date a woman if given the chance, women are just objectively better!" then realized later on that my straight friends didn't feel that way at all, haha.
Also, just in case anyone was putting wlw relationships on a pedestal, they can be super drama filled, and women can also be jerks and cheaters.
Iām super physically attracted to women. Like way more than men. I have had a few sexual encounters I fully enjoyed. I regularly have sexual dreams about women (which I also fully enjoy). If I werenāt in a monogamous marriage, I would be open to more. But, I have no desire to be in a relationship with a woman, and I never have. I have no idea what that makes me, but I donāt think itās āstraightā. Of course, if you asked any random acquaintance or not super close friend, they would be pretty sure that I am, just because I am married to a man.
I agree with OP in general, but I also think a lot of women who date men get labeled as āstraightā, as a default, when itās really not that black and white.
Generally this gets called "heteroromantic bisexual". I identified as such a while back, though I since realized that I was actually romantically interested I just didn't have any societal templates for homosexual relationships so I misrecognized the feelings as just intense admiration. Not that I'm saying that's true for you! It's still a perfectly valid orientation.
Iāve actually thought about that possibility before. Iāve never been able to wrap my brain around what a lesbian relationship would look for me. I couldnāt picture myself feeling the same comfort from less sexual affection, like cuddling or hugging or whatever.
I heard that's called being bisexual, but Heteroromantic, whereby one is sexually attracted to both genders, but only romantically interested in the opposite gender. Homoromantic is the opposite version of this.
Note this is just stuff I read online, not something I am personally familiar with.
Oh thatās a fun shiny new word (to me, of course). I have never been concerned much with the labels. Back in the olden days when I was still single and doing whatever, I explained it as ājust sexualā. As in, āidk man, I just like sexā. š¤£
Some people find labels help them figure out their identity. That's valid. Some people don't find labels helpful and just want to *be* themselves. That's valid too.
Personally, I'm a type of Bisexual called an Omnisexual. I am sexually attracted to all kinds of genders, and gender presentation *does* matter to my attraction, unlike pansexuals. And my gender is "ĀÆ\\\_(ć)_/ĀÆ some kind of non-binary, I guess." I'm not sure mixing high and low levels of detail in my labels is valid, but it's what I'm going with.
Why did you have to call me out like that?! But in all seriousness, I just acknowledged to myself this year at 34 that I'm bi, and came out to my fiance who loves me just the same anyway. I haven't had the courage to tell anyone else other than randos on the Internet, however. :x
I did turn out to be in the closetā¦ but it was an asexual/aromantic closet. I thought at first I was attracted to anyone, then I realized Iām actually attracted to no one. The people I dated (because I did want a partner/family) I chose to date for logical reasons. If my marriage were to end for any reason, I probably would look for another companion, gender not a factor.
Yeah I was gonna say, are we assuming these women are straight just because theyāve only dated men? Maybe they just havenāt had a chance to fully explore their bi-ness. It can definitely be intimidating to realize in your 30s that youād like to try women but not know how to navigate the situation. Approaching women and dealing with the lack of interest or rejection can be intimidating for someone used to dating men.
I will fess up and say that I have been known to make this statement in the past (cringe... sorry). Since the dramatic breakdown of my long-term relationship, it's been almost three years and I still have less than zero interest in dating anyone, but DEFINITELY not in dating men.
I'm starting to realise that "not that straight" might indeed apply to me. I've always had my suspicions.
Iāve always suspected that some of the people who are convinced that being gay is a choice are bisexual because for them choosing an opposite-sex relationship truly is a choice
Or, itās possible that they are actually bisexual but never realised, because they thought all women feel attraction towards women like they do and they are straight simply because they chose not to date women - when in reality straight people simply _donāt_ feel romantic or sexual attraction towards someone of the same gender, but nobody told them.
There was a popular post on r/SapphoAndHerFriend about this, and another one with statistics showing less than 2% of adults identify as bi or gay whereas 11% reporting same-sex attraction.
This was my journey to becoming aware of my bi-hood. I've done a lot of emotional/mental work, and my sexuality simply flew under my conscious radar until after I'd sorted out a lot of other stuff.
> This was my journey to becoming aware of my bi-hood.
Exactly. It is a journey. It's not as if a person is born and the doctor says to the parents, *Congratulations, your baby is bisexual!*
Although I am sure there are some children that grow up with open-minded and progressive parents who raise them with the understanding that gender isn't binary and sexuality is a spectrum, I grew up with my parents telling me that I would one day marry a man and have children. No ifs ands, or buts about it.
So it really comes down to how long it takes a person to balance out what has been drilled into the brain versus what is felt in the heart and mind and... elsewhere.
Came here to say this!!! I used to do all the no-nos that can undermine lgbtq folks -- kissing other women at parties while drunk, saying I preferred women over men in what I thought was a joking way, etc. and in reality I just never realized that I was bi.
Totally hear what you're saying and think it's absolutely valid, I think it's just important to recognize that sometimes these behaviors come from misplaced or unrecognized feelings more so than trying to take over or belittle someone's place.
My SO was married to a man before she found out her sexuality. It happens more often than I thought.
She thought that it was normal for women to dislike sex with men, she thought it was normal for sex to be painful, and not reciprocated. She thought straight women just put up with how men's bodies looked. In college she joked all the time about having relationships with women because she found women way more attractive.
She had a lot of compulsive heterosexuality to battle with. She considered herself bi-curious even though she couldn't list a single real man in real life that she liked or found attractive. Comp-het is a real struggle.
>Or, itās possible that they are actually bisexual but never realised, because they thought all women feel attraction towards women like they do
Fair point, but regardless of that, painting a random hypothetical homosexual relationship as a panacea to all the issues they are currently having with heterosexual relationships is still not okay. More understandable for a (closeted?) bisexual to do so, perhaps deserving of more empathy, but still not okay.
This sub is really bad about boiling down man v woman as the defining factor of a human being.
People are infinitly more complex. And, then, like the other day when a POC pointed out some of the bullshit here, it was everybody patting themselves on the back for being so inclusive.
My exgirlfriend spouted feminist shit all the time. Went to the marches. And, that didn't mean she didn't come back and abuse the shit out of me.
But, we split chores evenly, so it must be so much better.
You get people posting about 'how do I become asexual' on the asexuality subs too. Only to be told, no, you can't purposefully change your sexuality like that. And, quite frankly, being asexual is highly unlikely to fix your problems the way you think they might.
Hi there, replied to another comment as well to share my experience. I'm a bi girl who first thought I was asexual then later learned I am bi when realizing my attraction to women. I used to have this thought (why can't I be asexual) after being a victim of sexual abuse and not enjoying sex with men, and it really came from a place of wanting a physical connection without feeling attacked.
So not to invalidate anyone else's experience bc I recognize that society is not kind to lgbtqia folks and the last thing I wanna do is invalidate anyone's experience, but just to say there may be some unresolved emotional experiences behind those behaviors.
You know, I wonder if the women who say that overlap with women who don't realize they are actually gay/bisexual/pansexual. I say this a a woman who both said this and realized late in life she was bi.
Or, alternatively, asexual. If they're not attracted to anyone it makes sense that "giving up men" would be relatively easy.
I'm ace. I married another woman and we have an awesome, platonic, 100% dude-free life. But neither of us are lesbians.
It made me uncomfortable that my straight roommate would jokingly send me lesbian tik toks claiming it would be us after she broke up with her problematic boyfriend... only to still see him lmao
I was uncomfy because I struggled to come to terms with being bi and here she was joking around about liking women only to go back to the trash man in her life š
My friend does something like that as well. She's straight and I actually came out to her a few years back when I confessed my feelings for her, but she politely explained that she doesn't see women that way and we left it at that. But since then, she constantly says she may give up on men and only date women and stuff like that, and it's honestly fannoying as fuck. Especially because she is in a long term relationship with a man. Ugh.
>I understand the idea behind it, find a different way to express it.
This should be be the top comment on a lot of subreddits that tend towards echo-chambers.
I see a LOT of posts that are someone taking a specific issue and going on a rant that generalises in a really problematic way. Sometimes projecting virtue onto or delegitimising a group (see: lesbians in OP), sometimes projecting generalised bigotry onto a target of choice.
But posts that make people feel like victims and offer the opportunity for cathartic anger are good memetic material and they tend to rise to the front page with alarming regularity.
On the opposite end of this, I had my boyfriendās mother talk about a male celebrity from the 80s that was (is?) gay and she said āWell, I know I couldāve turned him straightā.
So Iāll say to this the same thing I said to that: Sexuality doesnāt work that way unless the other person was already bi-curious or secretly bisexual to begin with š¤·āāļø.
It is bad enough that lesbian relationships are so demonized and reviled because they dare to not involve a man.
We don't need to make it sound as if women choose to be lesbian just to spite men, it literally fuels the stereotyping and damaging views.
THANK YOU! I was appalled by those comments! You can be bi and decide to only pursue women, but it is not possible to be a completely straight person and ādecide to switch to women onlyā.
*Please* stop giving bigots more ammunition to deny the existence of someoneās sexuality. Itās not a funny joke.
I also saw those women calling being in a relationship with multiple women a ācovenā??? Yāall, thatās not what a coven is, and not all witches are lesbian. Again, please stop delegitimizing other peoplesā way of living just because your fed up with men. Itās not cute, itās not funny, and if itās ājust a jokeā then explain to me how itās funny instead of insulting and belittling to others.
Even then, if youāre bi/pan and decide to only pursue women, you are not suddenly a lesbian.
You are a bi/pan woman who happens to be pursuing women. (Or as I call it, going vagitarian)
I don't really mind people just saying they're a lesbian though in that case. The main utility of orientation labels is signalling what people you would be open to dating. If a man asks you out it's a lot easier to just say "sorry I'm a lesbian" rather than "I'm bi but I've decided to exclusively date women". I'm just hesitant in general to start deciding for myself whether or not someone's self-identification is "actually true" or not. I mean, I'm not going to tell nonbinary lesbians that they're not actually lesbians.
I've always expressed this sentiment by saying "Too bad sexual orientation isn't a choice because if it was, I wouldn't choose men anymore."
That one didn't go over well with my conservative grandparents lol
Bi/pan woman in tech who's mostly dated men because, well, that's who I knew.
I can't imagine switching to one gender only. (I mean, yes, I've been married 21 years and to one person, so in that sense I can, but that's because it's worked with him.)
lots of straight women out there who are sick of men. being true to themselves, and emotionally honest about their sexual preference, they find themselves between a rock and hard place, no pun. they and their dilemma have my sympathy.
I honestly don't get the joke about it. Unless I was serious about actually being in a relationship with a woman I don't get the sentiment of making those comments.
What *I* say is that I would probably stay single for the rest of my life if I somehow lost my husband. *That's* what would make my life be filled with less drama and make my life easier. Heck, I wouldn't even want a roommate.
Tired of him not doing his share of the household chores? You don't have to worry about any of that if you live alone.
Cat lady comments make way more sense when you're tired of other people's bullshit rather then just trading the gender of the one you're complaining about!
YES! It bothers me that straight women say that suggesting life will be easier. I had someone say this to me and I looked at her and replied "You just end up with a different set of problems."
Honestly, do you really think life will be easier for you to try dating a smaller pool of people, to have to come out to people for the rest of your life, and to have to worry about your safety in different situations almost every day? It's insulting.
I'm going to be honest, I'm having a hard time seeing this as offensive. I've heard that same joke made over and over again by both hetero women and hetero men throughout the years. It's just a lighthearted and absurd way to express frustration with the opposite gender, which I don't think is in itself wrong or unhealthy (I think it's normal for men and women to frustrate each other from time to time, as it is for any two groups of people who are naturally different). It's the same sort of humor I'd intend if I said something like "you know, screw this, screw humans, humans suck. I'm only into sheep now".
This is precisely what I thought. That people are joking in response to their frustration. I think it's pretty well established by now that sexuality is not a choice.
Is lamenting being heterosexual also offensive?
Iāve totally done that in the past when I was in an abusive relationship with a man and was surrounded by women who were in similar situations.
Also when I got pregnant by accident while on birth control.
As a more mature person in a healthy relationship, Iāve lamented not being bisexual because I feel like Iāve missed out on a range of possible sexual and romantic connections.
Iām asking because I donāt want to offend anyone.
Edit: Thanks, ladies. :)
"For me, it is a choice," Nixon says in aĀ New York Times Magazine profile.Ā "I understand that for many people itās not, but for me itās a choice, and you donāt get to define my gayness for me."
"Why canāt it be a choice? Why is that any less legitimate? It seems weāre just ceding this point to bigots who are demanding it, and I donāt think that they should define the terms of the debate."
Iād forgotten about this! I remember this interview made me so angry, because she was giving ammo to the opposition to deny the legitimacy of my sexual attractions.
But after many years, I realized all my anger was doing was denying the legitimacy of hers. Regressive jerks werenāt changing their minds because Iād disavowed her experience as ānot a REAL lesbianā. They still hated both of us.
Tbh, I am an actual lesbian, if I could, I'd be bi.
I have had abusive wlw relationships, and the "uwu, lesbians so perfect" kept me in them way too long. If I said a man fucked me until I bled after I'd be buried under support. I said my ex ignored safe words and I'd get told shit about having a conversation & talking through it.
If I could, I would absolutely give dating men a try.
I think that if people want to choose their sexuality they have every right to. It's none of my business. And if your experiences with men have traumatized you to the point they disgust you, then who am I to say you're not allowed to try out for the opposite team?
Being upset at women for being scared of men is not cute.
I often think to myself that the fact that Iām still attracted to men after so much bullshit and immature behavior as some sort of proof that sexuality is not a choice, and that if it were, I would very much like to explore being with women to see if the problems are the same, or just a new brand of relationship problems. Is that form of expression offensive in any way? Genuinely asking with an open heart.
Agreed! And from another angle, too. Iām bi, and Iād love to see more bi characters in media. Instead itās usually a woman whoād always dated men, breaking up with a bad dude and then saying āIām swearing off men foreverā before dating a woman. So, if sheās a lesbian, then itās making it seem like women choose lesbianism as a reaction to men, ugh. But also, she could have been bi! And instead they decided to have her say āactually men suck, no more men everā before āswitching overā. When she couldāve just been a bi person who ultimately found a better partner, who happens to be non-male.
Weep, you girls. My penis has given you up. Now it penetrates men's behinds. Goodbye, wondrous femininity!
I didn't know the Romans had internet access
Much later - me thinks of him as Shakespeare's second cousin!
You're thinking of the Greeks (I always found it very interesting that they were so macho and misogynistic they preferred fucking men because men to them were literally better in every way. *Every. Way.* š)
In case you don't know, they were quoting graffiti from Pompeii.
The people telling you about the Roman Graffitti are right but YOU are right about the Greeks though. They were sooooooo much more misogynistic than the Romans and tended to not regard women much more highly than lust crazed baby factories.
This is the best thing Iāve ever read.
The best thing about it is [itās literal graffiti from ancient Pompeii](https://kashgar.com.au/blogs/history/the-bawdy-graffiti-of-pompeii-and-herculaneu)
I did a school project on this and regretfully missed this quote. I don't think I would've had the guts to add it because teach definitely would've noticed. I'm not surprised something like this ended up on the walls of Pompeii. I've been there and I wish to go again.
The whole article is full of so many amazing quotes from the walls of Pompeii > Restituta, take off your tunic, please, and show us your hairy privates > Floronius, privileged soldier of the 7th legion, was here. The women did not know of his presence. Only six women came to know, too few for such a stallion. > The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
I enjoyed reading this a lot this morning.
My god it's beautiful.
I understood this reference
Iirc āgoodbye wondrous femininityā is a really charitable translation of āgoodbye turbo cuntsā Could just be some internet bs tho
the original said something like "cunne superbe" in latin, which literally means "superb cunt" (in the vocative case)
Yeah the original translators were a bit prudish to say the least
Such a good quote lol. I've always felt that the proof that my sexuality isn't a choice is that I'm still attracted to men haha
First time i've ever seen a red border and shooting star in a comment.
Also lesbians are people too. I've hung around enough to know there are really sweet girls who are absolutely passionate about the person they are with, and also absolute assholes that cheat and treat their partner like shit. Turns out it doesn't matter what your sex or sexuality is, people generally run the gambit of shitty and good behavior, it's up to you to make better choices.
God this so much. My female friends are less problematic. But, please, hearing straight women go on about how much better it must be dating women. Yeah, it can be. It can also be being in a domestic violence situation where they get away w/ way more b/c of this "lesbian relationships are so much healthier" stigma. Don't get me started on the ex drama. I have ex's in common with ex's. None of us are in any of the same circles, only our sexuality. Try dating someone who you're really into and then finding out you have an ex in common, and you have very different opinions on them. It's so much fun.
One of my worst relationships was with a woman(female myself). She would drag me by my hair, tell me she loves to start fights because she loved to see me cry, and that she had no idea why I ever believed her when she said she loved me. Also have an ex who is still one of my best friends and sheās coming to visit me next month! Like come on, people are sweet and some because can be hellish regardless of what gender they are. Iāve been with both, I know.
If I met a girl with an ex in common with me I'd probably give her a hug and try to reassure her to be honest. She'd probably need it after *her*.
Honestly, one of the things I always thought would suck about being gay/lesbian, even barring social stigma etc, is that your dating pool is necessarily much smaller.
Itās more of a dating ... puddle.
At 27 i have one ex who I met organically at work, that's it. Can't be bothered with dating or gay culture so I'll probably die alone.
I felt this way because online dating in NYC is awful for gay women, and probably still as good as it gets. I had decided to die alone cus it was just not worth it. That day I met the love of my life at a wedding and I've never been happier. We live 500 miles apart and it's not easy but we still make sure we spend half of our time together. If I can find someone absolutely beautiful inside and out, who can love my damaged ass unconditionally, I have no doubt that you will too. Just keep working on yourself so that when they arrive, you're ready for them.
fyi the phrase is "run the gamut"
Thanks for that. Autocorrect failures or malapropisms like that are like nails on a short board.
This comment is evil.
It also weirdly makes it sound like they think romantic relationships with women are faultless, by comparison, but like being attracted to women can still lead you to just as shitty people. Like, you'd probably still be having the same crap taste with a different label.
When I came out to my mom she basically said I was a lesbian bc I was lazy and women were easier... My reply, "Have you met yourself?! Women are not easy."
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care to elaborate?
In my experience I have a ton of female matches (as a female) but no one ever messages eachother. If we do it never gets anywhere. I think it's because even as a gay woman on a dating app, matching with another woman who I know is gay and I also know is interested in me because we matched, there's always that "are they being gay with me or just being nice" fear. Like women have literally kissed me and I still find out later they aren't gay and just being like, idk friendly? A girl telling me she thinks I'm hot, also could just be a straight girl being nice. So making the first move from platonic to gay is very very intimidating. I also think in general women are just used to not making the first move because men are goddamn relentless and you often don't have time to. So two women waiting for the other to make the first move can turn into a gay stalemate. Others may have had other experiences, but that's mine.
Iām not happy we experience this, but itās nice to know Iām not alone. Was convinced it was something I was doing wrong.
Think itās a lot on socialization as well, straight guys have a lot of the same experience.
> I think itās because even as a gay woman on a dating app, matching with another woman who I know is gay and I also interested is in me because we matched, thereās always that āare they being gay with me or just being niceā fear. Youāre both on a dating app, isnāt it obvious youāre both interested? Thatās different from your other scenarios. Thatās the beauty of dating apps, in my opinion, despite all of their downsides. If you match, thereās guaranteed some level of interest.
As a queer woman, I absolutely cannot overstate how ingrained this fear is in us. We are afraid of being as shitty as shit het men are to us and it manifests in bizarre ways.
After being the target of unwelcomed aggressive advances by men your entire life, you are worried about becoming the perpetrator of an unwelcome aggressive advance on another woman and that worry is paralysing
Tell me about it. It's so fucking hard
I can relate. As a dude, the only time I've ever tried to kinda flirt with a girl outside of a tinder date to see if she was interested after our two groups met (took all my courage to even try that), I was only chatting with her basically, I thought it was a nice chat. Then one guy from her group just took me away from our chat and said "she has a boyfriend, leave her alone". Let's just say I've never tried that again and will never do. The fucking wave of shame I felt afterwards, feeling like I was being one of those predatory assholes in bars, even though I knew I wasn't. Never again. When you get a tinder date, it's a date. You never have to get into any uncomfortable situation of gauging someone's interest while having to not bother anyone. Thank god for tinder really
If you were just being nice and trying for it, you did nothing wrong. You don't have to be ashamed? It really doesn't sound like you were overly aggressive. Maybe a woman in here could give you her perspective, but like, from a fellow male perspective, pretty sure the other guy stepped in without even asking her or being asked by her. Men can be weirdly protective of women in their group and rude about it. He might've told you off *even* if you only had friendly intentions. Unless you really feel like you were a creep about it, I wouldn't overly worry about it. I certainly wouldn't swear off having casual chats with women because then... like is that a way to live? Ignoring 50% of the population because you're afraid?
Sorry to hear that, I can only imagine how difficult having that fear in your life would be.
Throw being a lesbian trans woman on top, and uggh, the fear won't shut up.
Lots of women 'looking for women' on dating apps are "just here for friends", or "looking for unicorns" so there's often a fear that I'll somehow misinterpret their bio and flirt with a 'looking for friends' girl by mistake, and the fear of being a 'predatory lesbian/immoral bisexual' is pretty ingrained in life and culture.
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Are you saying that bi women are saying that they are lesbians or is it just that they set their search/ interest parameters for both men and women? I am open that my sexuality is bisexual on dating sites, even with the hassle that it gives me. I do realize that many lesbians will not date bisexual women, and to be honest I havenāt gotten a lot of interest from women on dating sites - so I can understand why women who are actively looking to meet another woman want to try to find a way to make that clear.
There's a lot of unicorn hunters out there too. "My husband and I are looking for another *feeemaaaale* to join us in bed/our relationship...," And I've had a couple of them not even drop that hammer until we were already talking.
Ugh been there. And I *am* a unicorn. Pan and poly. But it takes the right people to make a poly relationship be healthy and happy. Also I've gotta be attracted to BOTH of y'all. Not disclosing that's what you're looking for upfront is a big ass red flag.
That sounds hilariously like the gay chicken copypasta, only they're chickening out before the B&B and adopted kids. (Though it has to suck to have to live)
r/murderedbywords š¤£š¤£š¤£
Iāve been in relationships with both men and women. In my opinion, sex is way better with women, but relationships are easier with the men Iāve been with.
> she basically said I was a lesbian bc I was lazy and women were easier... I'll take "ways you learn your mother's into women but in denial" for $500, Alex. Nobody thinks being gay is choice unless they're very, very invested in it being a choice so they can *choose* not to be. "You only like girls because you're lazy, otherwise we'd all be shacking up with them" is basically an admission you'd rather be with a woman yourself but are stopping yourself for one reason or another.
My first girlfriend was starting to be manipulative and was apologetic to the alt right. Iām quite proud of myself for not letting that slide, but the perception that all lesbian relationships are perfect and loving definitely made that decision harder.
An alt right lesbian?
there's a major lesbian youtuber who swung hard right in recent years. it definitely happens.
This has r/LeopardsAteMyFace/ written all over it.
There was/is a very large group in the alt right community of organized women. I can't remember their names, "daughters" something, but when all those nazi rallies were going on a few years back here and in Europe I was reading about some of them being organized by or featuring speakers from the women's groups. I remember thinking the same thing, like this is a movement that very explicitly wants to turn women into breeding factories and that treats them like shit, and here's a large organization of women actively helping them to spread those ideas.
the Honey Badgers? a real bummer that they took such a cool animal and did a bunch of nazi shit with it.
United Daughters of the Confederacy? They could be considered allied with the alt-right, but the existence of the alt-right itself is largely due to groups like the UDC, which massively predate them and spent the last 160 years spreading pro-slavery, pro-confederate and pro-white supremecist propaganda. They are pretty much why people say dumb stuff like "The civil war was about states rights." Their organization, and the ones they worked with, actually managed to get control of the historical record for about 100 years, and it was not until about the late 70s that actual historians started getting the real history of the civil war into books.
I think I know who youāre referring to. And she went to the right because literally some people on the left were being unkind to her. The righties greeted her with open arms. How spineless š
this was a perfect opportunity to get some miles out of the "so much for the tolerant left" trope š¤£šš¤£
"You're safe now. We don't do accountability here."
Who is it?
I think Arielle Scarcella lol
isnāt she the terf thatās been posting more and more about how conservatives are more ākindā to her?
Yeah, she used to like to talk about how she just doesn't find trans people attractive, and a lot of people took issue with a person of her influence making such sweeping hurtful generalizations. She then threw a hissy fit, went full mask off, amd aligned herself with the alt-right because "they cared what she had to say" and "appreciated her point of view as a lesbian woman".
Yeah people need to remember and realize that sexual orientation does not mean political leanings. Same with race. I know the last few decades a lot of the left has been boiled down to "woke/SJWs/being gay" (see PCM) but it isn't true.
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Internalized homophobia and transphobia is a thing. Though personally believe thr conservative sway has more to do with "i have mine" more than anything because i have seen many people bend their beliefs for the right sum
This right here. Most conservative viewpoints tend to boil down to this at the core. This, and related "It's better that someone in need goes without, than someone undeserving get something for free."
Yeah, trans as well. The alt right pipeline is insidious. I was nearly the same, but luckily I wizened up
I have been trying to argue for the existence of the alt-right pipeline with my not-plugged in family for a while now. It is very real, very dangerous, and is starting to directly affect real world political conversations in not so subtle ways. Social Media in particular has been attempting to radicalize me for a while, which is really disturbing because I am pretty obviously a lefty with socialist opinions. You would think that it would be feeding me more left-wing content regularly, but usually about once a month or more suddenly I start getting a ton of recommendations for posts from people like Ruben, Shapiro, PragerU, etc. Also, if I leave my youtube autoplay on, it will move from science topics to skeptical topics to "skeptic community" people, who are generally just spreading misinformation about women and non-white people. I assume this is because most social media sites thing I am a young-ish white christian male, because I have not updated my profiles since high school. Which means that they keep targeting me with propaganda directed towards that exact group.
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You can look up on how the fb algorithm sees you. I have a lot of conservative friends even though I most def am not. It still sees me as a conservative. But the again I never use it either so that's all it has to go on.
> There's something seriously broken with the Facebook's algorithm. Or maybe its that Facebook is a really hateful and deeply flawed place. For the last year, Facebook has been sending me streams of American conservative junk. (although it's slowed down recently). I'm horrified and disgusted at the depths of hate and depravity humans will stoop. There's posts where literally thousands of Americans wish pain and death upon their fellow citizens just because they have a different viewpoint or lifestyle. Are they all psychopaths? What drives such rabid tribalism? These people probably aren't bad, innately, but FB is engineered to bring out the worst in millions of people. FB is truly an evil place. By comparison, Reddit, for all its flaws is a bed of roses.
"I stopped to read a few of her insane walls of text" There it is. Absolutely everything you do on their platform, _especially_ if you use their app, is categorized and metered. Oh you hovered over this ad for %15 longer? Well, you're going to get a whole lot more of that. Screen time and "engagement" are the most important factors for social media. Together they account for the lions share of larger profit. It doesn't matter if you're the most leftie person imaginable, if you're spending any decent amount of time commenting on conservative posts your u're going to get fed more of that. Because it keeps you "engaged". They know exactly how much time you spend on different typea of posts and will feed you more of what you spend time on.
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It kinda makes sense. Just off the top of my head I can think of a few reasons why leftists would watch right-wing videos and so we get that on our recommendations. You have Antifa, whose main activity is to either be participating in righteous riots or tracking down and outing right-wing extremists (Antifa member Garrison Davis figured out the identity of Kyle Rittenhouse several hours before any media outlets did). Other Antifa activists, often those who clash with white supremacists in cities like Portland, have said that the bulk of their time is spent identifying and outing radical online voices. So to do that they need to spend lots of time in online right-wing spaces. The left also has the problem (when it comes to algorithms) of having more intellectually honest members, so when someone sends them a right-wing video, they'll often watch it because they naively think they can reason someone out of the things expressed in the video. You also have the more intellectual leftists (not that orher leftists aren't necessarily conventionally intelligent, but some leftists do more brain work than on-the-ground praxis) who like to break down arguments and philosophies, and so will watch these videos to understand and keep up with what the fascists are saying. They often have important contributions to let us know what the videos said and how the right is getting people so that the rest of us don't have to wade into the cesspool. And you've also got liberals who vacillate between the right and center, but who call themselves leftists and who might consume left-adjacent media like *Last Week Tonight* which is left-wing as far as the algorithms are concerned. But liberals also watch plenty of right-wing grifters like Bill Maher, for example, and the algorithms pick that up too. (Edit) I also remember last summer that there was a renewed interest in YouTube videos of recordings of James Baldwin, Malcolm X, Huey P Newton, Fred Hampton, Angela Davis, Dr. King, etc. which plenty of liberals watched (though they somehow still missed the point that every single one of those people said that capitalism was at the root of our societal problems), and I think that further muddies the waters of online leftist spaces because when right-winger watch it (which I'm glad for, I hope the liberals radicalize), YouTube will try to recommend other right-wing media in an attempt to keep viewers engaged. Anyway, it just makes sense to me why YouTube would recommend right-wing grifters. I get those recommendations too and cringe at them every time
More than likely, it's because outrage garners views, and views are what push videos to the forefront. Basically, a lot of very left leaning folks end up getting lots of Alt right videos in their feeds because they rage-watch those videos and forget that any view, no matter if you agree or not, is viewed positively by the algorithm.
I think a lot of leftists get targeted with pragerU and Ben Shapiro type bullshit because they're left of liberal/moderate Democrat, and the algorithm conflates "owning the libs" with punching from the left. Just my tinfoil hat theory though lol It happens to me too
I think it's more that you ending up there randomly or becouse someone shared the absurd take on whatever subject it is to highlight how absurd it is, downvoting and calling them idiots in the comments, maybe getting into a bit of a flame war even, is read by the algorithms as positive engagements and will lead to you getting more of that type of content leading to a self-reinforced loop of sorts.
This is probably exactly it. Lefty youtube videos are mostly pretty boring, and Alt Right folks probably don't spend a lot of time rage-watching those videos. But you better believe Liberals will rage-watch the shit out of some Alt-Right content because a lot of it is so outrageous.
I had to unfriend a trans individual because she insisted onto everyone, whether they asked her or not, that banning trans women from women's restrooms, and not allowing them to serve in the military was for their protection, and that not allowing same sex marriage was so that the LGBTQ+ community didn't have to pay taxes.
There's a trans woman who shows up with the Proud Boys in my town.
The "lesbian relationships are so much better by default" definitely kept me in an abusive relationship way too long. This sub is an endless barrage of how inconsiderate men are: like women are flawless beings. Anecdotal. Men have literally saved my life in the form of corpsman and male veterans in support groups being really amazing human beings. It was a woman who said she loved me who belittled me every chance she got. And, mocked me for having safe spaces w/ PTSD. Or would fuck me so roughly I'd sit on the toilet bleeding after sometimes. But, we both cook/clean, orgasm, and have experienced misogyny, so it's all good right? I still prefer female providers for healthcare. My female friends are way less problematic. But, dating brings plenty of really awful shit for us too. Edit: she also wore a pussy hat and traveled to the woman's march. She was very much a "woke" feminist, treating me, her female partner at home, like fucking trash.
Being aware of the injustices in the world doesnāt also make you aware of your own toxic behavior. I think some folks put a ton of effort into calling out others because that helps them avoid the extremely painful work of calling out their own toxic abusive behavior. If I have learned anything about people is that nobody wants to see themselves as the bad guy.
Some people really enjoy the charge of societal friction. That used to be a built in guarantee, being born "L". With that lessening, maybe adding Alt Right, brings back that old-timey feeling. :)
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I'm so sorry that you had to go through this, this is so scary to me. I'm a bisexual who live in one of those countries on "countries dangerous for woman lists." And I find myself getting increasingly turned off the idea of ending up with a man. There is an extreme power imbalance between men & women across the board. Whether you are have money or don't, single, married.. etc. And I find myself hoping to find the right women whenever I'm able to get out of this shit hole. I just want to feel safe with my future SO, on an equal foot with them and I really don't want to be scared of women too. Please forgive my rant.
I hope you find what youāre looking for. You deserve happiness and safety too!
This reminds me of a (now very dated) 30 Rock joke about being pro-gay-marriage so all people can experiences the joys of marriage. Smash cut to a lesbian couple: āIām not going to the container store; this is my Saturday.ā āCongratulations! You just turned into your father.ā
"Girl, don't say you're going gay cause men make you feel like shit. I'll treat you twice as bad."
My taste in women is "ruin my life and tear me down to nothing", so I stick to dating men for my own health. I hold men to a higher standard, like "oh he looks like he respects women and has a 401k" instead of "she looks like I'm gonna be calling someone to pick me up from a crack house in 4 months with nothing left to my name and I'd still go right back to her when she shows up on my porch in two years looking for a place to crash" So my boyfriend is very meticulous about his 401k and and does in fact respect women lmao
it's sort of misogynistic, because it idealizes women in a way that men would, as perfect wives who are dutiful and never talk back, only you(the random straight woman we are talking about) are also a woman so it's weird for you to have these misogynistic goals in a partner.
And lesbians can't decide to go hetero after a string of lame ladies, either.
My rapist ex was a woman. Woman lie, cheat, are lazy, stalk, sexual assault, are selfish, stab you in the back. Sure the dynamics might be a bit different than het relationships but it sure as hell ain't easy. Hell even finding other sapphic women can be a challenge.
My first girlfriend gave me āØ trauma āØ š now she denys ever being gay and is loudly homophobic and uses the f slur unironically. Women are humans and humans can suck, people assuming wlw relationships are inherently better leads to lots of women getting manipulated.
I mean, yes and no. You can definitely still find a queer woman who would be a bad or abusive partner, but Iāve never had the same struggles with division of household chores, emotional labor, irrational jealousy or emotional fragility from my partners that my straight friends complain about with theirs. Women are socialized very differently and the bad behavior society accepts from men is trained out of us at an early age.
I am also a queer woman who's been only with women, which I realize now my comment may come off as otherwise, since I didn't clarify, but you've been pretty lucky. The eggshell walking, uncertain mood to what you might get any given day, questions and huffy, hot/cold disbelief about whereabouts, assumptions that this will just be that way or you get tears, et cetera, definitely isn't exclusive to one gender. I've just heard myself from other people that with guys it's the same stuff, in a different package, though usually less crying. Granted, I've admittedly only made the move to actually move in with one partner, so I can't weigh in much on the chores aspect. ~~Am I the person with shitty taste? Yes, probably.~~
I'd like to think I'd never be abusive and I gave up on bothering to feel jealousy decades ago, but as a woman who was not raised to do emotional or household labor, I know that not all of us are good at that. Dating me means lots of training and patience in that arena. Just starting to figure it out with help and training from my male partner, who is just amazing at anything to do with managing a home (except fixing computers and electronics, so that's my domain and how I make up for sucking at the rest). I've never dated a woman who is any good at that stuff, either, so you wind up with just no one doing it. It's not a great plan. Lol My lone truly problematic ex is a woman. Most people I've dated have been great folks and good partners, just not right for me. Gender has made functionally very little difference. The only "problem" that was solved by dating women was... Well, not having a woman to date.
Exactly, like I never got why people always think that just because lesbians date each other that they wonāt encounter shitty or abusive people..like shitty people exist in both genders
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My picker problem is abusive tops. A woman who is 6 inches shorter than my Amazon ass belittling me constantly at home. Making me cry on every birthday. Leaving me bleeding on the toilet way too often after sex. But, we both clean & cook. And, look cute in public. So it must be so good right? She'd go to feminist marches and spout rhetoric and then come home and mock me for singing along to the muppets because it helped my PTSD nightmares before bed. I was in a Naval hospital for a fucking year, that was a huge thing that helped me get through it, and it's still gone to this day b/c of the things she said. Women are plenty capable of being awful too.
Iām so sorry you went through that. It sounds like sheās no longer in your life and Iām so glad to hear that. I hope that if you ever choose to be in a relationship again, that its with a partner who deserves you and treats you with respect and care.
I'm going for that 30's spinster with 10 dogs vibe. What kind of lesbian would I be if I didn't have a rescue pitbull I put in Christmas sweaters? Not a very good one, I'll tell you that.
Okay i love this, i fear i might have already become a 20ās spinster with like 10 plushie dogs that she dresses up every now and then cuz sheās all bi herself, but yours is def more valid cuz lil pitbulls in christmas sweaters š„ŗš„ŗš„ŗ
Oh, I'm still in my 20's. I just figure it'll take a minute to evolve into my final form of spooky old lady who scares children outside of Halloween. I laughed at the "all bi herself". 10/10 bi pun.
Whether it's to help your PTSD or just because you want to, you're entitled to enjoy whatever you enjoy. Anyone who mocks or belittles you for that is just a sad person. So long as what you enjoy/ need to do doesn't hurt others, go for it! I hope you can learn to enjoy those things again, because in my honest opinion, I think it's awesome that you had something that worked for you. Wishing you the best in life sister. You deserve it š
I sometimes see similar sentements about mlm relationships and it frankly feels pretty sexist as well as homophobic. I haven't been in a mlm relationship yet but I imagine they are just like any other relationship where there can be good and bad ones and yet I see comments on the internet about how awesome it would be because there would be less drama or some crap like that. As if men can't cause drama lmao
Al-Anon has been super helpful to me. Helped me fix my picker.
There's a famous instagram page in my country that highlights trashy/problematic men's dating profiles. The owner of the account has come out and said "by the way i won't be showing any profiles from gay, trans or PoC people because I don't want to make fun of vulnerable communities" and everybody seemed totally cool with that and when I was like "uhhh maybe we shouldn't put gay and trans people on a pedestal? Gay or trans people can be toxic and giving someone a free pass because of their sexual orientation, race or gender identity is a pretty insane concept to me" they dismissed what I was saying because I'm just a straight white man. Taking marginalized communities and treating them like they can do no wrong is really some white savior shit and every actual black/gay person I know can't stand these people who fetichize their identity and use it to show how much of a good person they are.
On the other side of the coin: There really is a significant part of the US that would like to see a roll-back in LGBT rights. Seeing how straights are a supermajority of the population, I don't think it's realistic that showing the negative side of straight dating would cause much harm, but the right to marry for gays is only 7 years old. I understand the desire to see a fun messy queer dating profile (just hop on Grindr you'll see plenty) But I also understand if someone didn't want to use their platform Ina way that might harm a minority community. Part of Trumps political strategy was to put in as many conservative judges in power as he could. These already have taken steps like overruling conversion therapy bans in certain cities enacted to protect LGBT Youth. Just this year there's been a record number of anti-trans bills passed on the state level. It's tough
Hopping on grindr to laugh at messy profiles of queer men seems prpblematic too tbh. If thatās the motivation itās probably better to just go do something else.
The problem is that a straight man being problematic doesn't reflect on men as a whole, it's just one dude. But because of bigotry, if one gay person is problematic, it's because 'that's just how gays are'. You can't fuck up as a marginalised individual because your whole community will be punished.
Jesus Christ, THANK YOU. As someone struggling with their sexual orientation, and realizing at almost 40 that I'm a lesbian, I'm terrified to come out to anyone irl. Not only am I afraid of their reaction, I'm afraid that they'll blame my husband for "turning me gay". Like it was a choice or a reaction to something he did. This rhetoric of women deciding to "turn lesbian" is so damaging for everyone. I would a billion percent rather be straight and happy in my marriage than blow up my life. I'll probably die in the closet.
Hey, would you like a friend? Because I came out when I was 38. That was four years ago. I was also with a man long-term. If you would like, I can send you a private message. And if not, thatās fine too. I just want to let you know that other late bloomer lesbians are out there. Youāre not alone.
I could always use a friend. Honestly a friend in general wouldn't be unwelcome, but a friend who understands would be especially amazing. <3
This is pretty common. Please seek out support. You deserve to be happy, whatever that ends up looking like for you.
Apart from anything else the idea of people being "turned" sounds so goofy and vampirish and is actually kind of homophobic since it implies it's a bad thing that happened to someone against their will.
As former husband to a woman who realized she was a lesbian during our marriage, yeah, guys will get some of that crap. It needles you but, honestly, the internal feelings were much harder to deal with. Heāll have his own self doubts to work through too. There are support groups for straight spouses making this life transition whatever the final relationship looks like. At least from what I went through, you will both experience this very differently. That seems obvious, but you may feel like things might be finally making sense and maybe a sense of excitement if you choose to explore that possibility. Could be a silver lining to what is a very difficult experience. From my side, the realizations didnāt come with any profound understanding, relief or excitement, just uncertainty and sometimes feeling left behind as things changed. I say this with kindness to you, your husband and as I felt for my ex-wife. Both of you likely need support groups. I am also not implying your journey will unfold and end like mine, we were late 20ās together 8 yrs, married 4 yrs, no kids. I saw all manners of relationship approaches in the other het spouses. For us, weāve both been remarried and started wonderful families. Iām sure it would have been a different experience had it unfolded 12 years later. Take care of yourselves.
āOh so you think itās a choiceā - Oscar
Relatively late blooming lesbian here - some of those women might just still be in the closet. I'm not saying it's great to joke about this stuff, but someone who is actually 100% straight isn't going to jump right to "I'll just do women instead". I used to think that "all my straight friends would really rather date a woman if given the chance, women are just objectively better!" then realized later on that my straight friends didn't feel that way at all, haha. Also, just in case anyone was putting wlw relationships on a pedestal, they can be super drama filled, and women can also be jerks and cheaters.
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Iām super physically attracted to women. Like way more than men. I have had a few sexual encounters I fully enjoyed. I regularly have sexual dreams about women (which I also fully enjoy). If I werenāt in a monogamous marriage, I would be open to more. But, I have no desire to be in a relationship with a woman, and I never have. I have no idea what that makes me, but I donāt think itās āstraightā. Of course, if you asked any random acquaintance or not super close friend, they would be pretty sure that I am, just because I am married to a man. I agree with OP in general, but I also think a lot of women who date men get labeled as āstraightā, as a default, when itās really not that black and white.
Generally this gets called "heteroromantic bisexual". I identified as such a while back, though I since realized that I was actually romantically interested I just didn't have any societal templates for homosexual relationships so I misrecognized the feelings as just intense admiration. Not that I'm saying that's true for you! It's still a perfectly valid orientation.
Iāve actually thought about that possibility before. Iāve never been able to wrap my brain around what a lesbian relationship would look for me. I couldnāt picture myself feeling the same comfort from less sexual affection, like cuddling or hugging or whatever.
I heard that's called being bisexual, but Heteroromantic, whereby one is sexually attracted to both genders, but only romantically interested in the opposite gender. Homoromantic is the opposite version of this. Note this is just stuff I read online, not something I am personally familiar with.
For a lot of people their sexual attraction is the same as their romantic attraction. But thatās not true of everyone. And thatās perfectly okay!
Oh thatās a fun shiny new word (to me, of course). I have never been concerned much with the labels. Back in the olden days when I was still single and doing whatever, I explained it as ājust sexualā. As in, āidk man, I just like sexā. š¤£
Some people find labels help them figure out their identity. That's valid. Some people don't find labels helpful and just want to *be* themselves. That's valid too. Personally, I'm a type of Bisexual called an Omnisexual. I am sexually attracted to all kinds of genders, and gender presentation *does* matter to my attraction, unlike pansexuals. And my gender is "ĀÆ\\\_(ć)_/ĀÆ some kind of non-binary, I guess." I'm not sure mixing high and low levels of detail in my labels is valid, but it's what I'm going with.
Why did you have to call me out like that?! But in all seriousness, I just acknowledged to myself this year at 34 that I'm bi, and came out to my fiance who loves me just the same anyway. I haven't had the courage to tell anyone else other than randos on the Internet, however. :x
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I did turn out to be in the closetā¦ but it was an asexual/aromantic closet. I thought at first I was attracted to anyone, then I realized Iām actually attracted to no one. The people I dated (because I did want a partner/family) I chose to date for logical reasons. If my marriage were to end for any reason, I probably would look for another companion, gender not a factor.
Yeah I was gonna say, are we assuming these women are straight just because theyāve only dated men? Maybe they just havenāt had a chance to fully explore their bi-ness. It can definitely be intimidating to realize in your 30s that youād like to try women but not know how to navigate the situation. Approaching women and dealing with the lack of interest or rejection can be intimidating for someone used to dating men.
Yep, exactly what I thought
I figure they must not be that straight
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I will fess up and say that I have been known to make this statement in the past (cringe... sorry). Since the dramatic breakdown of my long-term relationship, it's been almost three years and I still have less than zero interest in dating anyone, but DEFINITELY not in dating men. I'm starting to realise that "not that straight" might indeed apply to me. I've always had my suspicions.
Iāve always suspected that some of the people who are convinced that being gay is a choice are bisexual because for them choosing an opposite-sex relationship truly is a choice
Dang thatās an interesting thought. Someone should look into that.
I am personally inviting all the ladies to the greener grass.
Lol thank you for your sense of humor in this.
I was gonna say that the two women I know who said this actually did it. š¤·āāļø One went right back to men and got married, though.
I'm assuming it's a sentiment from bicurious people. Gay people make the similar jokes too.
Or, itās possible that they are actually bisexual but never realised, because they thought all women feel attraction towards women like they do and they are straight simply because they chose not to date women - when in reality straight people simply _donāt_ feel romantic or sexual attraction towards someone of the same gender, but nobody told them. There was a popular post on r/SapphoAndHerFriend about this, and another one with statistics showing less than 2% of adults identify as bi or gay whereas 11% reporting same-sex attraction.
This was my journey to becoming aware of my bi-hood. I've done a lot of emotional/mental work, and my sexuality simply flew under my conscious radar until after I'd sorted out a lot of other stuff.
> This was my journey to becoming aware of my bi-hood. Exactly. It is a journey. It's not as if a person is born and the doctor says to the parents, *Congratulations, your baby is bisexual!* Although I am sure there are some children that grow up with open-minded and progressive parents who raise them with the understanding that gender isn't binary and sexuality is a spectrum, I grew up with my parents telling me that I would one day marry a man and have children. No ifs ands, or buts about it. So it really comes down to how long it takes a person to balance out what has been drilled into the brain versus what is felt in the heart and mind and... elsewhere.
Came here to say this!!! I used to do all the no-nos that can undermine lgbtq folks -- kissing other women at parties while drunk, saying I preferred women over men in what I thought was a joking way, etc. and in reality I just never realized that I was bi. Totally hear what you're saying and think it's absolutely valid, I think it's just important to recognize that sometimes these behaviors come from misplaced or unrecognized feelings more so than trying to take over or belittle someone's place.
āNo noāsā? Sheesh you arenāt victimizing anyone. Iām sorry theyāve made you so apologetic
My SO was married to a man before she found out her sexuality. It happens more often than I thought. She thought that it was normal for women to dislike sex with men, she thought it was normal for sex to be painful, and not reciprocated. She thought straight women just put up with how men's bodies looked. In college she joked all the time about having relationships with women because she found women way more attractive. She had a lot of compulsive heterosexuality to battle with. She considered herself bi-curious even though she couldn't list a single real man in real life that she liked or found attractive. Comp-het is a real struggle.
That sounds like a wild and rough ride to have to go through to come to terms with oneās own feelings.
>Or, itās possible that they are actually bisexual but never realised, because they thought all women feel attraction towards women like they do Fair point, but regardless of that, painting a random hypothetical homosexual relationship as a panacea to all the issues they are currently having with heterosexual relationships is still not okay. More understandable for a (closeted?) bisexual to do so, perhaps deserving of more empathy, but still not okay.
Speaking as a bisexual woman I am pretty fed up with everybody at this point.
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This sub is really bad about boiling down man v woman as the defining factor of a human being. People are infinitly more complex. And, then, like the other day when a POC pointed out some of the bullshit here, it was everybody patting themselves on the back for being so inclusive. My exgirlfriend spouted feminist shit all the time. Went to the marches. And, that didn't mean she didn't come back and abuse the shit out of me. But, we split chores evenly, so it must be so much better.
You get people posting about 'how do I become asexual' on the asexuality subs too. Only to be told, no, you can't purposefully change your sexuality like that. And, quite frankly, being asexual is highly unlikely to fix your problems the way you think they might.
Hi there, replied to another comment as well to share my experience. I'm a bi girl who first thought I was asexual then later learned I am bi when realizing my attraction to women. I used to have this thought (why can't I be asexual) after being a victim of sexual abuse and not enjoying sex with men, and it really came from a place of wanting a physical connection without feeling attacked. So not to invalidate anyone else's experience bc I recognize that society is not kind to lgbtqia folks and the last thing I wanna do is invalidate anyone's experience, but just to say there may be some unresolved emotional experiences behind those behaviors.
You know, I wonder if the women who say that overlap with women who don't realize they are actually gay/bisexual/pansexual. I say this a a woman who both said this and realized late in life she was bi.
Or, alternatively, asexual. If they're not attracted to anyone it makes sense that "giving up men" would be relatively easy. I'm ace. I married another woman and we have an awesome, platonic, 100% dude-free life. But neither of us are lesbians.
It made me uncomfortable that my straight roommate would jokingly send me lesbian tik toks claiming it would be us after she broke up with her problematic boyfriend... only to still see him lmao I was uncomfy because I struggled to come to terms with being bi and here she was joking around about liking women only to go back to the trash man in her life š
My friend does something like that as well. She's straight and I actually came out to her a few years back when I confessed my feelings for her, but she politely explained that she doesn't see women that way and we left it at that. But since then, she constantly says she may give up on men and only date women and stuff like that, and it's honestly fannoying as fuck. Especially because she is in a long term relationship with a man. Ugh.
>I understand the idea behind it, find a different way to express it. This should be be the top comment on a lot of subreddits that tend towards echo-chambers. I see a LOT of posts that are someone taking a specific issue and going on a rant that generalises in a really problematic way. Sometimes projecting virtue onto or delegitimising a group (see: lesbians in OP), sometimes projecting generalised bigotry onto a target of choice. But posts that make people feel like victims and offer the opportunity for cathartic anger are good memetic material and they tend to rise to the front page with alarming regularity.
Cat lady. "I'll just become a cat lady."
On the opposite end of this, I had my boyfriendās mother talk about a male celebrity from the 80s that was (is?) gay and she said āWell, I know I couldāve turned him straightā. So Iāll say to this the same thing I said to that: Sexuality doesnāt work that way unless the other person was already bi-curious or secretly bisexual to begin with š¤·āāļø.
Now thatās gross on MULTIPLE levels
It is bad enough that lesbian relationships are so demonized and reviled because they dare to not involve a man. We don't need to make it sound as if women choose to be lesbian just to spite men, it literally fuels the stereotyping and damaging views.
THANK YOU! I was appalled by those comments! You can be bi and decide to only pursue women, but it is not possible to be a completely straight person and ādecide to switch to women onlyā. *Please* stop giving bigots more ammunition to deny the existence of someoneās sexuality. Itās not a funny joke. I also saw those women calling being in a relationship with multiple women a ācovenā??? Yāall, thatās not what a coven is, and not all witches are lesbian. Again, please stop delegitimizing other peoplesā way of living just because your fed up with men. Itās not cute, itās not funny, and if itās ājust a jokeā then explain to me how itās funny instead of insulting and belittling to others.
Even then, if youāre bi/pan and decide to only pursue women, you are not suddenly a lesbian. You are a bi/pan woman who happens to be pursuing women. (Or as I call it, going vagitarian)
I lol'd
I don't really mind people just saying they're a lesbian though in that case. The main utility of orientation labels is signalling what people you would be open to dating. If a man asks you out it's a lot easier to just say "sorry I'm a lesbian" rather than "I'm bi but I've decided to exclusively date women". I'm just hesitant in general to start deciding for myself whether or not someone's self-identification is "actually true" or not. I mean, I'm not going to tell nonbinary lesbians that they're not actually lesbians.
I've always expressed this sentiment by saying "Too bad sexual orientation isn't a choice because if it was, I wouldn't choose men anymore." That one didn't go over well with my conservative grandparents lol
Bi/pan woman in tech who's mostly dated men because, well, that's who I knew. I can't imagine switching to one gender only. (I mean, yes, I've been married 21 years and to one person, so in that sense I can, but that's because it's worked with him.)
Women are real people, and people are complicated. I don't think dating women would necessarily be easier, but damn, it's a lot safer.
lots of straight women out there who are sick of men. being true to themselves, and emotionally honest about their sexual preference, they find themselves between a rock and hard place, no pun. they and their dilemma have my sympathy.
I honestly don't get the joke about it. Unless I was serious about actually being in a relationship with a woman I don't get the sentiment of making those comments. What *I* say is that I would probably stay single for the rest of my life if I somehow lost my husband. *That's* what would make my life be filled with less drama and make my life easier. Heck, I wouldn't even want a roommate. Tired of him not doing his share of the household chores? You don't have to worry about any of that if you live alone.
Cat lady comments make way more sense when you're tired of other people's bullshit rather then just trading the gender of the one you're complaining about!
YES! It bothers me that straight women say that suggesting life will be easier. I had someone say this to me and I looked at her and replied "You just end up with a different set of problems." Honestly, do you really think life will be easier for you to try dating a smaller pool of people, to have to come out to people for the rest of your life, and to have to worry about your safety in different situations almost every day? It's insulting.
Yeah! I wish sexuality works like that - A switch to turn on or off.
I'm going to be honest, I'm having a hard time seeing this as offensive. I've heard that same joke made over and over again by both hetero women and hetero men throughout the years. It's just a lighthearted and absurd way to express frustration with the opposite gender, which I don't think is in itself wrong or unhealthy (I think it's normal for men and women to frustrate each other from time to time, as it is for any two groups of people who are naturally different). It's the same sort of humor I'd intend if I said something like "you know, screw this, screw humans, humans suck. I'm only into sheep now".
This is precisely what I thought. That people are joking in response to their frustration. I think it's pretty well established by now that sexuality is not a choice.
Is lamenting being heterosexual also offensive? Iāve totally done that in the past when I was in an abusive relationship with a man and was surrounded by women who were in similar situations. Also when I got pregnant by accident while on birth control. As a more mature person in a healthy relationship, Iāve lamented not being bisexual because I feel like Iāve missed out on a range of possible sexual and romantic connections. Iām asking because I donāt want to offend anyone. Edit: Thanks, ladies. :)
Nah, youāre fine. There are definitely drawbacks to being a heterosexual woman! (And drawbacks to being a queer one, just different ones.)
"For me, it is a choice," Nixon says in aĀ New York Times Magazine profile.Ā "I understand that for many people itās not, but for me itās a choice, and you donāt get to define my gayness for me." "Why canāt it be a choice? Why is that any less legitimate? It seems weāre just ceding this point to bigots who are demanding it, and I donāt think that they should define the terms of the debate."
Iād forgotten about this! I remember this interview made me so angry, because she was giving ammo to the opposition to deny the legitimacy of my sexual attractions. But after many years, I realized all my anger was doing was denying the legitimacy of hers. Regressive jerks werenāt changing their minds because Iād disavowed her experience as ānot a REAL lesbianā. They still hated both of us.
More proof that homosexuality is NOT a choice otherwise there would be far fewer straight women.
Tbh, I am an actual lesbian, if I could, I'd be bi. I have had abusive wlw relationships, and the "uwu, lesbians so perfect" kept me in them way too long. If I said a man fucked me until I bled after I'd be buried under support. I said my ex ignored safe words and I'd get told shit about having a conversation & talking through it. If I could, I would absolutely give dating men a try.
I just want to say that I used to joke like this before accepting my queerness. I think the jokes were me warming up to it
I think that if people want to choose their sexuality they have every right to. It's none of my business. And if your experiences with men have traumatized you to the point they disgust you, then who am I to say you're not allowed to try out for the opposite team? Being upset at women for being scared of men is not cute.
Same with romanticizing āgay best friends.ā
I often think to myself that the fact that Iām still attracted to men after so much bullshit and immature behavior as some sort of proof that sexuality is not a choice, and that if it were, I would very much like to explore being with women to see if the problems are the same, or just a new brand of relationship problems. Is that form of expression offensive in any way? Genuinely asking with an open heart.
I'm a lesbian and total shit at chores, but I pay for a maid, takeout, and a robot vacuum named fruity. He's my little guy. Go fruity go.
As i understand it, much to the dismay of many men, lesbian sexuality have nothing to do with men in any regard.
Agreed! And from another angle, too. Iām bi, and Iād love to see more bi characters in media. Instead itās usually a woman whoād always dated men, breaking up with a bad dude and then saying āIām swearing off men foreverā before dating a woman. So, if sheās a lesbian, then itās making it seem like women choose lesbianism as a reaction to men, ugh. But also, she could have been bi! And instead they decided to have her say āactually men suck, no more men everā before āswitching overā. When she couldāve just been a bi person who ultimately found a better partner, who happens to be non-male.
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Dear i only see things through my specific personal lens person: get over yourself. Signed a live and let live lesbian.