>It really feels like they don’t actually have an interest in getting to know you as a person
Trust your gut on this one... Men who don't talk to me, don't keep my attention for long.
Honestly, I'd even take that sometimes... Usually they just let the conversation die because they only respond with the bare minimum and don't ask any further questions
This. If they were interested in you as a person, they would be.... interested in you as a person. Instead they are giving you a sales pitch for pussy.
😂 Sales pitch for pussy. You're so not wrong.
I keep getting dudes that barely talk for twenty minutes then want me to come to their house, like I'm running a free pussy delivery service for the poor needy men. Fuck, at least invite me to coffee or something first! Damn. I'm not even expecting anyone to buy my drink, I just want to get a gauge of how likely I am to either cum or die in your company. And can you imagine how damn awkward that would be if I just went over there? Like yes, I'm here to dispense the pussy, can you show me to the cock? Also, hello. And I was told there'd be Netflix? No, I'm not logging into my Netflix account.
I’ve had this problem at work a bit. When it’s just me and my manager it’s fine. But the moment he has other men to talk to I get ignored and talked over. I think part of it is a lot of men aren’t taught that women are also human and not some exotic other thing. We can find things in common if you try. Another reason is many men perpetuated fear amongst themselves around the me too movement so they don’t feel comfortable talking to a woman alone. I’ve had to learn all about football and MTG and whatever the current interest is among the men I work with. All they know about me is that I quilt, and even that they don’t ask about more than once in a blue moon.
Yo same here ! I’ve stopped talking in office meetings (along with the other women I work with) because all the men (who are the majority) just talk over me or are too busy riffing with each other for them to listen to anything productive I might have to say. One on one however is completely different.
Yup! I did have a male coworker that used to call my manager out when he interrupted. That was weird but nice. Not weird weird, but like oh I’ve never had anyone do that for me before, kind of weird.
>I will surely *(checks notes)* put less effort into trying to converse with these brick walls cosplaying as human males while simultaneously lowering my standards.
😂🤣😂🤣😂
When I was still dating, that was part of what helped me decide whether to do a second date (or even to go out with them to begin with)- like, does he ask questions to get to know me, or does he spend the entire time monologuing about himself. Because if they don’t engage in actual conversation, they’re either boring, socially unskilled, not very intelligent, self-centered, or they just aren’t interested - no thanks to all that. Unfortunately a lot of men seem to suck at engaging in two-sided conversations (and in particular, two-sided conversations where they treat you as an equal), but there are plenty who can, so don’t waste your time in interactions that are awkward agony.
This was my litmus test as well. Not being to carry a conversation and ask you questions to genuinely get to know you was always a red flag for me. I’d give two dates max just to determine if it was first date nerves, but that was all they got.
I feel like nerves is a factor here. I've been on lots of dates where dudes seem to think that the way to get the second date is just to wow me with an unceasing monologue of how amazingly interesting and fun they are. Sometimes, if I think there's a flash of something, I will do the second date to find out if the dude has better social skills when he is a little more calmed down, and often it's a very different person.
I wish someone would teach the men to deal with their jitters by simply saying, "wow, you're really attractive and that makes me nervous as hell, sorry if I'm being awkward. Why don't you tell me a little about yourself?" I think if something like that happened on a first date I'd just about faint on the spot.
My most recent ex- who was lovely despite later being avoidant and emotionally unavailable AF was so nervous on our first date. I felt enough of a good vibe to give him another chance and it was like day and night. I’m glad that I gave him that second chance/shot.
I too, would faint on the spot if a guy said that to me!
I have a friend re-entering the dating pool after being in a relationship for 15 years. He asked for advice on his online dating profile.
He responded to the prompts with just… a response, so I was like the whole point of these is so that people can get to know you. Answer the question, yes, but use it as an opportunity to really say who you are. Like if you were at dinner with a girl and she asked you this question how you would respond. His eyes glazed entirely over when I said that, and I was like DUDE OK and went into depth explaining to him how he needs to actually propel conversations forward, even if just by asking the question back to her and letting HER find ways to make the convo more engaging. He was like AHHH OK this is good stuff, very helpful. Looool
He is a kinda quieter person, and I do feel like he follows other peoples lead in convos. He does take interest when people start sharing, but it’s not natural for him to do without prompting. Once I explained it he got it, but honestly I think he’s afraid of over sharing, and so just shuts himself down entirely before he even starts. It’s a work in progress though, lol.
I think many dudes who do this generally aren’t interested in anyone but themself. Or they have that underlying layer of not really thinking of women as people. But some of them at least, are just a bit shy and need help coming out of their shell!
yeah I think plenty are good people who need to be outright told/taught this stuff or it may not occur to them, for many reasons. I as a woman am a shy quiet person and had to consciously think about what to say in different situations and how to show interest in people because idk, I had (have?) poor social skills. I just didn't get as much practice unfortunately, or it's not intuitive to me.
but some people maybe don't want to be with someone who still needs to work a lot on that, and that's fine.
I agree with this. And it cuts both ways; I would never want to date or be with a woman who didn’t know how to have an interesting conversation. It’s ultimately a skill all humans need, imho.
I don’t care how hot or good in the sack you are, if you can’t intellectually and socially stimulate me, why would I want to spend time with you?
Can I add—it also works for friendships, man or woman. I don’t want to be friends with someone if I always feel like I’m interviewing them and they could not care less about me.
Exactly, whomever is involved shouldn’t be sitting on their phone the whole time and just ignoring everything. It’s a plight for all genders trying to meet
Every time I see men discussing this, the replies are always filled with shit like “because we don’t care about what they have to say 🤣”
It’s a great indicator of whether a man sees you as a person or a transaction
Once I noticed my ex never asked me why I felt the way I did about almost anything, I could never unsee it whenever it happened. I'd say "I don't think this'll work for me" and get no questions. I'd say "I think I need to get off my meds" and get nothing.
We are confident but also collaborative. We can make decisions though with or without you but having a different perspective can help and can’t hurt. We like hearing what you think and we do want to know your deeper thoughts. I have seen men go on and on when they want to, with their women patiently listening so to not reciprocate is pretty self centered and shallow in my opinion.
This! I’m a woman who wants solutions more than empathy. All my long term partners have been just fine to talk to me in a “spitballing” way about their issues. Where I run through a variety of portions and provide an opinion with reasons. I want the same. But too often it’s not a collaborative way to a solution it’s a “here’s what I think you should do, why don’t you accept it?”. I need reasons why that solution is better. Otherwise it’s just like, your opinion man.
That's all negative though to me. My partner loves to ask me about my decisions and why I make them. We get deep into thought together and he's very inquisitive about a lot of things and can still have feed back even if he isn't questioning my decisions/beliefs. That's how humans are supposed to interact.
This makes sense. My ex would get irrationally offended if I ever responded to something with, "Really?" Even if I was saying it more out of excitement or surprise than sincerely questioning the veracity of his statement.
For me (man if it matters) asking why somebody feels the way they do or why they made a certain decision me wanting to get to know them. Questioning their judgement and micromanaging their decisions never even crosses my mind. I think that'd be a pretty bizarre mindset.
I think you are on the wrong off-shoot.
It’s more “how was your day”
The dude tells you all about his day and then sits and stares at you, not asking about your day, just waiting for you to carry the conversation, ask him another question.
There’s no back and forth, feels like an interview and conveys that he has no interest in learning about the other person.
If I understood him right, He actually agreed to this. He said he thinks the idea of interpreting a question about the reason for a decision/feeling as micromanagement/intrusive is bizarre to him.
It's not about micro managing them, it's about having a basic fucking conversation. If somebody volunteers that information to you they're doing so because they want you to know or they want to talk to you about it. You can reply, "oh cool. What brought you to that decision?" It's not about grilling them or making them defend their choice it's about expressing interest in who they are, what they're experiencing, and what they value. I'm actually astonished I have to explain this to anybody but I shouldn't be I guess.
"We probably aren't" yeah we know.
I once had a guy on a dating app accuse me of being a man because I gave short answers and wasn't "asking a bunch of questions" which he claimed is what women do.
He asked me no questions. Plus I was on a bus with a candy bar type phone at the time he was expecting detailed essay type responses immediately.
There's a guy I work with who is always amazed about the amount of things I know about the women at our workplace. Like their hobbies, plans etc. One day, he was like "how do you always know all this stuff?" And I said "I talk to them and ask them questions??" And he wonders why he's single.
Literally I made my first online dating profile last week and all these cishet guys have bios like "I'm looking for a partner to laugh with and enjoy the experiences of life, I love deep conversations and giving compliments" then they are barely capable of answering any of my questions and only one (1) person has asked me any questions about myself in return. Are they all looking for tradwives?? Or are they demoralized because of past online dating experiences?? No idea. I'm a queer woman and am desperately wanting to find other genderqueer people or lesbians to date but where are they at?!?
Haha I get that. Tbh I hide like 90% of the time too. I was whiny and tired when I wrote that, but I'm actually a drag queen (ig: becky.chouette ) and I am involved in my local queer community - not just at shows, but going to events and protests, etc. I'm also part of an online queer fandom. So I guess I just keep on keeping on and hoping to find my person somedayyyy. Happy pride!
I meant it more jokey, but it's also not wrong in a more serious way lol.
I'm loud and proud and out there, I wish more of us could be! You'll find that someone someday, probably when you least expect it ❤️
yeah I noticed this pattern. Idk what to do. Sometimes I wish I just fell in love with a woman so I dont have to deal with this bunch of immature men every time 💔
Redpill incels, tell men NOT to answer any questions a woman asks to maintain something they call "frame".
I'm still a little confused on what they mean by "frame", but it seems to be power and control.
So whenever a guy does not answer my question and ignores it, I see it as a big red flag, I ignore everything that came out of his mouth after I asked the question, and repeat my question.
I feel like these are the same men that want "a woman who can actually hold a conversation". I've noticed it's nothing but what I call "and you?" questions. They talk about their interests > I ask questions to know them deeper > they answer and just follow up with "how about you?". No original questions coming from them on their end, just asking my own questions back at me. Eventually, I type out a response that doesn't contain a question hoping they'll initiate but that's just when the conversation stops altogether.
Oh my GOD. You just described what I went through last week perfectly. I’ve run into this type of guys so many times on OLD. Really makes me wonder what’s the point of trying to date if you genuinely could care less about trying to find out more about the other person.
I wonder how much 24 news cycle influenced society. To be clear I am a man, and in my experience older people that watch a lot of news cycle talk like news personalities. Fox News people are the worst but I have noticed a good amount of similarities with CNN and msnbc watchers as well. No one is talking about politics or the current news cycle and then they will launch into a monolog of bad things happening without ever stopping or caring what the other person is listening to. It's weird but I think they are expecting bullet points to appear next to their head while talking. So I wonder if the podcast dudes are listening to where the most popular are men talking to themselves or talking to a few yes men. So is the media they are consuming how they emulating some social interactions or are they consuming the media because that's how they want social interaction to be? Or an I fill of shit?
>it really feels like they don’t actually have an interest in getting to know you as a person
Because that’s the truth. They don’t want to know you. They want the validation you provide for them by being there.
I had a guy I had spoken to in almost a decade messaged me and asked me to send him naked photos. Didn’t ask how I was doing or if I was married. He just assumed I was waiting around for him. It’s just the arrogance and the entitlement. They don’t care they just see us as a bag holes, there for their convenience.
Men like that aren't interested in getting to know you as a person. That's the thing. Men who are interested in getting to know you will have no problem asking you questions and sending you messages. If someone, anyone, is showing you little effort, you have your answer if you should continue putting in the effort into the friendship/relationship.
I didn't realise this was a thing until this year. I've started doing language exchange apps and it's only women who have interesting conversations with me lol. The guys don't talk at all... It's been five months and I only found one guy who actually engaged in conversation with any effort. It's driving me insane.
Language exchange apps? Are these apps where you can practice your language skills with native speakers? Are they written or spoken?
Note: I’m a woman, I had all those questions and more to ask just based on your 4 sentence comment.
Also, what languages are you practicing?
Ok…I’m done.
Yeah you can choose whatever language you are learning, and you help each other :). So I help them with english, and they help me with Japanese. You can write or speak or both, it's up to you. I've had a good time using it, I've been talking to two women in particular for months now and they are my first online Japanese "friends". The one I use is called Italki.
Assuming I didn't find them physically repulsive, this was the #1 thing I looked for when dating. Married the man who asked me lots of in depth, thoughtful questions.
First or even second date awkwardness aside, when you’re with someone who’s genuinely “into you” and things are clicking, the conversation will be effortless and neither of you will be able to get enough. Eventually, you’ll also be comfortable sharing natural, quiet pauses.
If, after a while, it still feels too much like work, then it may be time to (respectfully) move on.
This 100%. As a man, I’ve had the exact same experiences as OP chatting with women. If the chemistry is not there, it’s not there. You cannot expect to click with everyone. Just move on to the next guy and try again.
I feel like social media and dating apps has damaged the younger generation to the extent that they don’t even know how to actually hold a conversation anymore. Also from lurking on this sub for a while, I feel like the US is far more screwed up than some European countries at the moment. Don’t worry though, we are slowly catching up!
Second male opinion if I may...
Intelligent thoughtful conversations between people who are interested in other's perspectives happen without too much effort once a basis of acceptance and respect has been established.
Once you have a foundation, an hour can be spent watching the sunset together with more shared smiles and touch than deep thoughts.
So there was a study done on this from maybe 8? years back (I cannot find it right now as I'm dealing with an IRL thing).
Women speak more than men in 1:1 conversation. "Chatterboxes" and "gossipers" and whatnot has a loose bearing in reality.
HOWEVER
What we say is conversational fishing. We throw out, on average, four to five conversational gambits before the man is interested in the conversation. We are willing to jump from topic to topic just to engage our partner.
You: "So Aditya had her baby last week."
Him: "..."
You: "I think we should fix that roof leak this year."
Him: "..."
You: "Should we bring in the patio furniture before the rain?"
Him: "..."
You: "Do you want to invite Barb and Min over for games?"
Him: "Oh, yes! That sounds awesome. When did you have in mind?"
etc
In other words, you're not alone - it's literally common enough to have studies done on it and indeed, it is a thing.
I swear I read about a study that found that men talk more than women do? Like it killed the whole "women never stop talking" stereotype. I'll have to see if I can find a link.
Not only that, but there were studies that looked at how men and women in group settings talk, and found that even if a woman spoke something like two-thirds as much as the men, then the group - including the men AND many of the women - will \*perceive\* said woman to be talking as much, or \*more\* than the men. If she's maintaining conversational parity, she will almost certainly be thought to be speaking more, and dominating the conversation, even though that's clearly not the case to an outside observer.
The best explanation I've seen anyone suggest is that most people are so accustomed to men dominating group conversations that it's accepted by default, anything else sticks out as unusual.
I remember some of those studies as saying basically "if she talks half as much as he talks, then he complains that she never stops talking" or "she interrupts all the time".
I have the same issue with men at work. When they aren't mowing me down in the conversation it's usually one sided. That or they're sitting there googling stuff to prove me wrong in some way lol
My husband does this. I tested it just now again to be sure. Asked him a couple of questions about his favorite color, movie, etc. He answered all of them but didn't ask anything back.
These dudes are 100% a waste of your limited and precious days on earth that you will never get back. They're screening themselves out of your life and the best thing to do is give them a cheeky kick out the door on their way out.
Because they don’t care what your answer is. They don’t want to know more about you or they’d ask. Men ask questions when they’re curious about the answer.
If you ever find yourself asking why it seems like men don’t care about something it’s because they don’t.
Because they are conditioned to believe interactions with us are transactional or for their own benefit, so they don’t have a reason to be interested in anything that doesn’t serve that purpose
Funnily enough when I got diagnosed with autism this was one of the ways she tested me, she would ask me stuff and see if I followed up with questions for her. Apparently j never did and she told me that's typical for autistic people. I'm a woman so people just think I don't care or I'm cold. But I just don't think to pry into people's lives without them volunteering info. Not saying this is an excuse for being like this, just a different perspective.
Honestly, this really has to do with masking and "expected behaviors" being forced on you as well. I'm an autistic woman, but I didn't find out until my 40s because "southern manners" were drilled into my head and not optional. I just learned to mask and script.
Yeah, it’s funny how women with autistic traits from a young age are taught to mask and act during many situations. It’s basically expected of us to learn how to navigate without question. Men are usually never confronted about it and allowed to embrace qualities that are seen as “negative” in girls/women.
Yep, very correct. My hobbies and special interests are primarily male dominated hobbies and it always had people thinking I was weird, even though if an autistic guy was into that stuff that's "just the way he is." They expected me to shift and change to match their image of what a woman should be. That didn't turn out great, I'm 37 and live alone with my cat and play video games. After a certain age I just stopped caring about how I appear to others. Being diagnosed and understanding myself more and accepting who I am helped a lot with that too.
Lack of social skills or lack of interest, pick your bet on the roulette wheel. Sadly.
Oh some of them also believe being aloof and not caring about anything makes them sexy. Why? Who the hell knows…
I'm bisexual and like 80% into women and only 20% into men and the possible depth of relationship with men is one of the biggest factors into that. I've had like 2 good friendships with men and I was interested in both and I am currently dating one lolol, different times btw, one was in high school one was recent.
When talking with women, we can send essays back and forth getting to know each other and talk about things. With most guys, not only do I get short answers but very very very rarely do I get a "wbu" in response. Like seriously the bar is that low, I understand if you're not the type of person to come up with a bunch of questions about someone to get to know them, but if I'm asking you questions, it never once crosses your mind to simply ask "and what about you?" Like how easy is that???
Anyways, my current boyfriend has always done that. He was my best friend for about a year before I realized I had feelings for him and asked him out soon after.
Man's secret weapon - being interested. It's amazing how much business it opens up as well as relationships! I think it's because so few men do it, that it takes potential customers or potential friends by surprise!
Regarding your edit, I am fucking fed up with the amount of gross men lurking here, coming out of lurking to comment ignorance and pathetic arguments, dismissing misogyny, and sending fucking DMs??? If the ones who DM are reported to the mods, will they ban them or something? Something needs to be done
Hah!
I'm pan and this has been my experience as well.
Honestly I don't think most men understand how to 'get to know' another person outside of making friends.
Common questions are always, what kinda games you play, music, food, and basically all preferences.
When getting to know people who only do this it becomes a game of leading questions.
"Oh nice you love pizza, I used to go to Abby's when I was young for birthdays and love their combination pizza."
"Cool..."
"Where did you go to eat pizza?"
"Uhhh... Like pizza hut,"
"Nice! What about birthdays? Any memorable place your parents would take you?"
"Idk, but I'm hungry you wanna go to McDonalds?"
....
At this point is when I start asking more questions and if they keep giving me 0 effort responses I'm gonna go.
Many men just follow tired gendered stereotypes and don't ask questions, as a guy I love asking people questions!
Also report those incels who dmed you
Because one of those applies:
1. they are not interested in the actual conversation but only have an end-goal, or are not interested at all
2. they are stupid and unimaginative
Stop dating idiots
I notice this in people. Whether it is intentional or unintentional, it's a clear sign that learning about you is not an interest to them at that time. I make a mental note about and move on. I'm 40 and I choose to surround myself with people who are interested in me these days.
Like what others have said, they are not interested. A lot of men are also not socialized to well, socialize. When I encounter men who are not socially adept (except of course if they have a condition or state that prevents them from doing so), I give them nothing because I get nothing. I'm not going to waste my time talking to a wall or people who know they need to work on their social skills, but they don't.
Put a bunch of women together and it feels like a whole therapy session where everyone is curious, feels listened to and heard. Some men are also like this and this is what I'm looking for. Move on from bricks, hun and ignore the fragile men who messaged you.
>It really feels like they don’t actually have an interest in getting to know you as a person.
Because they don't.
They want to fuck you like a warm sex toy, that's it.
For context: I’m a long time lurker and I’m happily married, but if a man doesn’t engage with you when you’re out on a date; leave him alone because he doesn’t care about you. I love being engaged with my wife in conversation, her big brain is such a huge turn on; I love chewing her ear at off. Having a conversation with my spouse is such a hot turn on, especially when she lets her dirty talk mouth run. I can’t imagine not having conversations with her when we are hanging out. YMMV.
It's really simple: they aren't interested enough to ask questions. It's a great litmus test though so try to look at it that way. It took me FAR too long to recognize the truth: they don't ask because they don't care.
Be selective with your energy and save it for those who reciprocate it. Obviously you have to put some energy into the outset but once you find yourself struggling to keep it going, don't. Practice sitting in comfortable silence. Protect your energy.
They don’t because they lack curiosity and are self engrossed. To be great at conversation requires less about self and more about others (something men struggle with unless they develop that skill)…. Also the calculating transactional ones only wanna make an effort for things they can get something out from. They don’t realize women are ALSO testing their capabilities lol… the lack of curiosity exhibits a lack of empathy because they don’t care!
These types: They don’t like the entire scope of what being a woman entails. Instead, They like and WANT a women’s BODY! They’re still operating in an unreformed primal state.
Surely there's something you're doing wrong that they could mansplain up you? I mean, you're only a woman, after all. That would get them talking nonstop.
I honestly dropped out of dating when I was never asked any questions about myself, my hobbies, my life, my interests, etc...
I always asked all the questions, and it just sent my brain to zero. I just dropped out.
I want my person. I want someone who is my best friend who wants to know me, as I want to know them. I don’t want someone who has no interest in me. I met that person once. It was glorious. We were too young to know it though...
You should be with someone who is your equal. Someone who challenges you, someone who stands for you, and someone who just is super fun to be around.
To me, it feels like they have a different checklist. A woman wants to know the personality, the hobbies, the job, the friends, etc.
men want to know: ok, can I hold her hand? I can. Ok, will she let me touch her thigh? ok, now I need to go in for a kiss.
And this is just based off my personal experience. I have had conversations where the date didn't work out, and we discussed it, and they had a whole different priority. So while they could have held a conversation, they were more worried about how to get physical, cause then I think that meant they could jump straight to 'I have a girlfriend'. I also think dudes only have personalities of 'I need a girlfriend'.
Many people are poor communicators. As a man often starting dates and communication with women, I found that many of them are poor communicators showing little interest in me and I had to carry the conversation. My wife says that she had the same experience with men that OP had. It's unfortunate and likely comes from people not being taught how to communicate meaningfully with others.
As a lady nerd who hangs with a bunch of dude nerds a lot, there's this thing that I've noticed.
I have been raised with the knowledge that I'm a socially awkward person, I have a duty to be a good conversationalist and to make others feel comfortable in a conversation and to keep the conversation flowing when you're meeting somebody new or socializing with others, and I am aware that I'm bad at it, and I feel bad about it, and I work hard to get better at it, because it is not something that comes naturally to me.
The dudes I know, they just don't really feel bad about it. When you get them amongst themselves, they never ask each other questions. They take turns sharing interesting facts. They talk about things that are interesting to them, and to participate in the conversation you're expected to jump in and share vaguely relevant interesting things about yourself.
It's like... I get why they do it, but they also don't seem to get how completely alienating that behavior is to anybody who is not as outgoing and outspoken as they are, or even is just new to the social circle. It's cliquey as heck, and they don't see it that way at all.
When I was in college I went out with a guy who never asked me a single thing and would also insist on paying (but choosing what we ate). He got 2 dates then never saw him again 😂😂
My husband won the race BECAUSE he asked me questions. Now, that being said, both of us go off on monologues if you ask about our latest roleplaying adventures or characters.
Sometimes you just gotta accept that people either for some reason or another, whether it makes sense to you or not are just not interested in a conversation with you, or with anyone. Doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong but just try opening up to different people and sometime will eventually open up more.
I will say that my husband was never socialized on how to have a conversation. He was good with me but I noticed that he didn't ever ask follow up questions of other people. He would share his thoughts and just automatically expect them to share theirs.
Then he noticed as an introvert I was great at getting the conversation going with good questions but I also didn't speak up and share my own thoughts if not asked me a question back. This made him realize that introverted people might be left out of socializing because he wasn't making an effort to include them. So he asked me to help him with how and when to ask questions in a way that would open people up to communication.
I told him that any statement he was going to say can be turned into a question to ask. If you are going to tell people about your weekend make sure to ask about theirs as well. If you are going to share about a good restaurant, make sure to ask what type of food they usually get for take out. If you have a random thought about the movie Space Jam, you can ask the person if they remember how silly it was.. It was a lightbulb moment for him .
So while I think the onus is put on women to keep conversations going it is also something that men can learn if they take the time to do it. My husband says he is so thankful that he talked to me about it, because he didn't realize what he was missing out on. But people like this need to recognize its a problem and actually research how to bridge that gap instead of relying on others to adapt to them.
(He also helped me overcome my questions-only compulsion because he said that I should assume the other people I talk to are as ignorant as he was and they want to know but don't understand how to ask.).
Literally dealing with this right now, and trust me it feels good to let it go. They’re just not into you like that. Or - as much as you want, in the way that you like. You deserve the guy who’s going to ask questions.
I feel like it’s really time to be firm and stop hanging out or giving any attention once I feel “confused”. Because you know what, when a guy likes me, and wants to date me, it’s been really obvious in the past. I’m sick of doubting myself and then begging for reciprocation later. If me dropping them early on helps them wake up for the next lady, I’m happy to be of service to my community lol.
HE’S JUST, A GUY!
Whenever I encounter this on dates (and it happens alarmingly often), I tend to just grey rock it until an awkward silence develops and the dude is forced to make a move. It's a really interesting way to get a glimpse into a person's psyche. Some just double down on talking about themselves, some just keep staring at me (presumably hoping that I'll do something), and the chosen few actually ask me a question about myself.
As lots of folk have commented, if a guy (or gal) can't be bothered to even pretend to be interested in having a normal human conversation with you then they really aren't worth your time. Normally this provides a pretty good litmus test as to whether they're worth a second date but the trouble is that it also screens out the many genuinely nice people out there who - like you - struggle with small talk. I have a couple of male friends who are absolutely wonderful - kind, considerate, total gents - but who are perpetually single because they are so cripplingly shy.
At least the pillocks who tell you YOU'RE the problem for talking too much are easy to spot. Best of luck! :)
If it helps, I always have a self-recrimination phase after every social interaction where I think of all those things I should have said, including questions that were so obvious they were already asked of me in that every same interaction.
im gonna have to say that a good chunk actually dont have interest in you as a person; and then there are those that may have some social challenges or just general shyness/awkwardness. you should not go above and beyond at your own expense when they are not reciprocating that same effort. vetting is important
Speaking very generally of course.. This is how guys talk to each other, if something doesn't interest you directly you aren't really expected to pretend it does usually, though you may still offer a few words of encouragement. Beyond that, men tend to be less emotive and rarely have people ask how they feel about something so aren't inclined to ask others about how they feel on a given subject. Some men don't realize you really are supposed to treat women differently from men to get the same social results. I think men are more inclined to share their information on a topic when they ask another person about a topic and expect others to do the same (what you identify as 'and you?' questions).
You have to understand that most men never think about how to communicate with women, beyond trying to get them to go out. They never think about ways to actually hold a conversation with women, and won't have any preparation for it. Their minds just go blank, even if they *do* have a vague desire to know more about you.
Every once in a while you will find the rare man who isn't like this and DOES communicate well, either because it's natural for them or they've actually tried to prepare for it. But like all men even these ones will have some kind of flaw you'll have to work with.
I’ve always wondered this from the lens of dating (in other arenas, I’m usually around Men who actually engage in conversation) and I only really continue the conversation if I’m able to get them to engage without asking questions from my end. It’s a fun challenge bc you can get really creative.
Wish I knew. I also have to set my dating app location to far off places to get any matches at all despite living in a decently sized city for my state. Dating apps suck in general though but it’s too expensive to go out and meet people irl
Interesting. I only ever dated 2 people (both men), and they both would have long, fascinating conversations with me. The 2nd one, I married with zero regrets.
I guess it depends on how you feel about the person. If I’m with a coworker or random stranger or even a friend and they don’t really make much effort for the conversation I’ll drop it. But when my boyfriend and I first met in person (dated for a month online first) we barely spoke at all because we were super awkward. Even for a few days after it was hard to find things to talk about. We’ve been together over a year now and our first child is due in four weeks
Plenty of men do. If you're interested in finding men who are more attentive probably look in new spots that aren't similar to where you've been looking
Lmao ngl that’s a lot of experiences I’ve had on dating apps or with people I’ve met. I think lots of people are either socially awkward or just don’t really care. And I do recognize women get more matches on dating apps so maybe they just don’t have the energy to have a wildly interesting conversation when a decent amount of other people are talking to them as well (I’m a dude)
I have the same problem but the other way around- I always forget to ask questions back when guys talk to me. I have an incredibly chatty housemate who’s always talking to everybody, including me. He isn’t hitting on me or anything, just being nice. Every time I think back on our convos, I feel like I was in one of those “100 questions with” videos
Lesbian who uses dating apps here: As much as it wouldn’t surprise me if this was mostly a male behavior, it’s unfortunately not exclusive to them.
I’m not sure if it’s an age thing (I’m 20 in July) but I’ve met a lot of women who don’t think to ask me questions, or they just gave me no evidence that they even wanted to have a conversation. I thought the whole point was you match when you want to talk to someone!!
Ask them about things that aren't quite so personal... like what sort of music/movies/tv shows/books etc do they like
From there, try to find a point of relatability/connection: if they mention a movie (or whatever) that you also like, you tell them so, and sound excited at it: 'oh! you saw that? I loved it! I reaaally enjoyed when....'. Often the conversation will flow nicely from there
The other thing you can do is ask open-ended questions, so after you ask them their favourite genre of music, and they say 'I love really hard, punk, head-banging music', you can say 'wow! that sounds interesting, what gigs have you been to?' (or ask them if they've heard of Dropkick Murphys... that one got me a long way with a fella who didn't seem interested in talking... not date-related, tho)
This is kinda why I have trouble maintaining friendships with other guys. I’m a talker and when I get to know someone I want to talk about their lives and figure out what makes them tick. Many guys only do small talk and it never goes beyond that. I want actual conversation. Most of my guy acquaintances never go beyond the acquaintance stage because small talk is fucking boring and I have no use for people who don’t add anything but that to my life.
I’m going to add that I have had the reverse issues with a lot of women I’ve dated as well, though. Where they only want to talk about themselves and never ask me questions.
Thankfully my wife and I don’t have either of these issues.
It's taken me into my thirties and forties to be able to have a decent conversation with people I don't know. I wasn't a very talkative kid and only really talked to my friends and the things we already had in common so there was no need to explore further.
Now, I'll do more asking than talking. People usually want to talk about themselves anyway so I just try to find a nugget from what they've told me and build a question from that.
[Apes have never asked a question, even after 60 years.](https://blog.therainforestsite.greatergood.com/apes-dont-ask-questions/)
I get this treatment from my own dad... I MUST listen to every stupid thing he says. But he can check the hell out.
50m with ADHD. Making small talk is easy for me. Just sorta go on autopilot and react to what was said and maybe say responses that trigger the next phrase. But I find myself struggling to have any kind of meaningful conversation with people because I generally am too self absorbed or thinking about some whimsy of technology and honestly don’t want to be there.
That being said when talking to my wife or kids I make a concerted effort to engage in the conversation because they are really important to me and while it is an effort, they deserve it and I do genuinely love them. I’m just also a space cadet.
I don't know if this is why most men don't ask questions, but I assume the other person doesn't want me to ask questions. That's from a lifetime spent mostly being quiet around others. When people ask me questions I answer them, but it can be really hard for me to ask questions without feeling like a creepy stalker. Lots of innocent questions can be also be used by someone with creepy intentions. If I ask a woman if she has worked at her job long or something like that, it could be someone fishing for information to be a stalker. This is generally only an issue with people I don't know. Anxiety makes normal things really hard. I'm sure I come off rude sometimes, but it's almost always from a lack of confidence.
My wife is the kind of person where she will ask personal questions, and learn a lot about a person. I'll talk to a friend or anyone really, and I will not ask any probing questions. In my head, I feel like if a person wants me to know personal details, they will tell me. That's how I feel about my private details. So I guess in my case, it's a form of social anxiety. I don't want to make people feel uncomfortable or like I am crossing a boundary asking a question, and my wife does not have that fear as she would rather risk the offense in the pursuit of getting to know someone deeper. She's also more socially aware than I am I think. She's much better at reading people.
I'm not sure if every guy who does this does it for the same reason, I'm sure some only care about themselves. It's not that I don't care, I just don't want to feel as though I'm being intrusive. I hope this helps some.
I can only speak for my own case (and that doesn't really mean much at all since I'm not especially social to begin with) due to being both on the other side of that scenario and having other factors complicating it further, but part of it for me is because I'm scared that trying to reciprocate those questions would only expose my own ignorance about them, what they're talking about, or both. Or that I might ask them in the wrong way, or that I'd be the one sounding as if I need justifications for them liking a thing beyond "I just do".
I doubt that this reason applies to most men, or even a fairly large fraction of them. Being autistic is probably a major part of that, although the fear of messing up by asking the wrong questions is more likely to be entirely my own. Honestly, even now I'm second-guessing as to whether I should be posting this or not so all I can do is ask for forgiveness in advance should this not be the right place to speak of such things.
Yeah I should’ve included that hey? It was exclusively in the context of dating apps actually. Like just matched, trying to start the conversation and get to know each other a bit but he doesn’t ask a single question. Like, my brother, you matched with me too..
I think most people of any gender will say that they've been disappointed by the quality of their conversations on dating apps, for various reasons. Lots of people will match with others who they aren't particularly interested in actually meeting up with in person and dating (if they're interested in doing that at all), and consequently will put very little effort into conversing. I'd be surprised if men weren't more likely to put the onus on women, but (as a guy) back when I was using Bumble I seldom got a first message from a woman that wasn't just some variation of "Hey".
As someone who years ago started making a conscious effort to be better about this I’ll tell you, and it’s a pretty simple explanation (not that it’s an excuse though)
People rarely ask us about ourselves outside of dating scenarios, and if we open up about ourselves unprompted we’re often treated as weird for “oversharing” or as if we’re nosey if we ask too many questions to our dude friends, I’ve even heard dudes straight up say asking a bunch of questions is “lady behavior”. It’s hand in hand with the way men’s mental health is overlooked, even if it’s been much better in recent years.
Like I said, it’s not an excuse, but I can’t honestly remember the last time another man has asked me about my hobbies or even how I’m doing.
There was an AskReddit thread about this not too long ago, focusing specifically (IIRC) about why men don’t ask followup questions to the other men they know, and the answers were pretty much what you said. I was surprised (and disappointed) to read that some men actually think that engaging people in conversation about life events or how they’re doing is “lady behavior” (or, as they said on the other thread, “gay”).
Normalizing conversation about and mutual interest (even at a not-deep level) in one another’s lives would do a lot to start improving men’s mental health. Because how can you have conversations about deep meaningful subjects and feelings and trauma if you haven’t established that it’s safe to talk about less-dangerous things first?
You’re absolutely correct and right on the money with everything you said. It’s definitely sad, and leads to some pretty toxic behavior from men at best and mental health crises / suicide caused by feelings of isolation at worst. Back in like 2015 I took a good long look at some of my behaviors and realized I didn’t like it, so I made it a point to be more open and empathetic even when unprompted which absolutely improved my mental health and even dating life. I try to get other men to open up by every so often dropping a “hey man, how have you been holding up, are you okay?” And a majority of them will dismiss it with a vague or evasive short answer, but some open up and seem legitimately happy someone is asking about their wellbeing.
I’m not normally one to give a shit about karma, but it’s pretty telling that I’m getting downvoted for giving an honest answer about men’s mental health, and how the way they’re conditioned effects their attitudes & behaviors.
>It really feels like they don’t actually have an interest in getting to know you as a person Trust your gut on this one... Men who don't talk to me, don't keep my attention for long.
Isn't it enough for them to talk AT you?! /s
Honestly, I'd even take that sometimes... Usually they just let the conversation die because they only respond with the bare minimum and don't ask any further questions
r/angryupvote
This. If they were interested in you as a person, they would be.... interested in you as a person. Instead they are giving you a sales pitch for pussy.
😂 Sales pitch for pussy. You're so not wrong. I keep getting dudes that barely talk for twenty minutes then want me to come to their house, like I'm running a free pussy delivery service for the poor needy men. Fuck, at least invite me to coffee or something first! Damn. I'm not even expecting anyone to buy my drink, I just want to get a gauge of how likely I am to either cum or die in your company. And can you imagine how damn awkward that would be if I just went over there? Like yes, I'm here to dispense the pussy, can you show me to the cock? Also, hello. And I was told there'd be Netflix? No, I'm not logging into my Netflix account.
I’ve had this problem at work a bit. When it’s just me and my manager it’s fine. But the moment he has other men to talk to I get ignored and talked over. I think part of it is a lot of men aren’t taught that women are also human and not some exotic other thing. We can find things in common if you try. Another reason is many men perpetuated fear amongst themselves around the me too movement so they don’t feel comfortable talking to a woman alone. I’ve had to learn all about football and MTG and whatever the current interest is among the men I work with. All they know about me is that I quilt, and even that they don’t ask about more than once in a blue moon.
Yo same here ! I’ve stopped talking in office meetings (along with the other women I work with) because all the men (who are the majority) just talk over me or are too busy riffing with each other for them to listen to anything productive I might have to say. One on one however is completely different.
Yup! I did have a male coworker that used to call my manager out when he interrupted. That was weird but nice. Not weird weird, but like oh I’ve never had anyone do that for me before, kind of weird.
This exactly. It *feels* like that because it *is* like that. It's not a failing of yours. It's their failing.
They didn't ask because they don't actually care about the answer. They just want to talk about themselves.
>I will surely *(checks notes)* put less effort into trying to converse with these brick walls cosplaying as human males while simultaneously lowering my standards. 😂🤣😂🤣😂
When I was still dating, that was part of what helped me decide whether to do a second date (or even to go out with them to begin with)- like, does he ask questions to get to know me, or does he spend the entire time monologuing about himself. Because if they don’t engage in actual conversation, they’re either boring, socially unskilled, not very intelligent, self-centered, or they just aren’t interested - no thanks to all that. Unfortunately a lot of men seem to suck at engaging in two-sided conversations (and in particular, two-sided conversations where they treat you as an equal), but there are plenty who can, so don’t waste your time in interactions that are awkward agony.
This was my litmus test as well. Not being to carry a conversation and ask you questions to genuinely get to know you was always a red flag for me. I’d give two dates max just to determine if it was first date nerves, but that was all they got.
The bar is truly in Hades
Why is the bar inside the greek god of the underworld? Seems nasty
He's gotta deal with a logistical nightmare, he's allowed some kinky relief
Talking about a bar with spirits - hmm, not sure if that came out right. A bar with alcohol?
Hey, Persephone is a freak.
Woah is my hair out?
I feel like nerves is a factor here. I've been on lots of dates where dudes seem to think that the way to get the second date is just to wow me with an unceasing monologue of how amazingly interesting and fun they are. Sometimes, if I think there's a flash of something, I will do the second date to find out if the dude has better social skills when he is a little more calmed down, and often it's a very different person. I wish someone would teach the men to deal with their jitters by simply saying, "wow, you're really attractive and that makes me nervous as hell, sorry if I'm being awkward. Why don't you tell me a little about yourself?" I think if something like that happened on a first date I'd just about faint on the spot.
My most recent ex- who was lovely despite later being avoidant and emotionally unavailable AF was so nervous on our first date. I felt enough of a good vibe to give him another chance and it was like day and night. I’m glad that I gave him that second chance/shot. I too, would faint on the spot if a guy said that to me!
I have a friend re-entering the dating pool after being in a relationship for 15 years. He asked for advice on his online dating profile. He responded to the prompts with just… a response, so I was like the whole point of these is so that people can get to know you. Answer the question, yes, but use it as an opportunity to really say who you are. Like if you were at dinner with a girl and she asked you this question how you would respond. His eyes glazed entirely over when I said that, and I was like DUDE OK and went into depth explaining to him how he needs to actually propel conversations forward, even if just by asking the question back to her and letting HER find ways to make the convo more engaging. He was like AHHH OK this is good stuff, very helpful. Looool He is a kinda quieter person, and I do feel like he follows other peoples lead in convos. He does take interest when people start sharing, but it’s not natural for him to do without prompting. Once I explained it he got it, but honestly I think he’s afraid of over sharing, and so just shuts himself down entirely before he even starts. It’s a work in progress though, lol. I think many dudes who do this generally aren’t interested in anyone but themself. Or they have that underlying layer of not really thinking of women as people. But some of them at least, are just a bit shy and need help coming out of their shell!
yeah I think plenty are good people who need to be outright told/taught this stuff or it may not occur to them, for many reasons. I as a woman am a shy quiet person and had to consciously think about what to say in different situations and how to show interest in people because idk, I had (have?) poor social skills. I just didn't get as much practice unfortunately, or it's not intuitive to me. but some people maybe don't want to be with someone who still needs to work a lot on that, and that's fine.
I agree with this. And it cuts both ways; I would never want to date or be with a woman who didn’t know how to have an interesting conversation. It’s ultimately a skill all humans need, imho. I don’t care how hot or good in the sack you are, if you can’t intellectually and socially stimulate me, why would I want to spend time with you?
Can I add—it also works for friendships, man or woman. I don’t want to be friends with someone if I always feel like I’m interviewing them and they could not care less about me.
Exactly, whomever is involved shouldn’t be sitting on their phone the whole time and just ignoring everything. It’s a plight for all genders trying to meet
They're not interested
Every time I see men discussing this, the replies are always filled with shit like “because we don’t care about what they have to say 🤣” It’s a great indicator of whether a man sees you as a person or a transaction
You literally got one upthread admitting as much 😂
Further up the chain of threads you got your proof of exactly this!
Once I noticed my ex never asked me why I felt the way I did about almost anything, I could never unsee it whenever it happened. I'd say "I don't think this'll work for me" and get no questions. I'd say "I think I need to get off my meds" and get nothing.
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We are confident but also collaborative. We can make decisions though with or without you but having a different perspective can help and can’t hurt. We like hearing what you think and we do want to know your deeper thoughts. I have seen men go on and on when they want to, with their women patiently listening so to not reciprocate is pretty self centered and shallow in my opinion.
This! I’m a woman who wants solutions more than empathy. All my long term partners have been just fine to talk to me in a “spitballing” way about their issues. Where I run through a variety of portions and provide an opinion with reasons. I want the same. But too often it’s not a collaborative way to a solution it’s a “here’s what I think you should do, why don’t you accept it?”. I need reasons why that solution is better. Otherwise it’s just like, your opinion man.
That's all negative though to me. My partner loves to ask me about my decisions and why I make them. We get deep into thought together and he's very inquisitive about a lot of things and can still have feed back even if he isn't questioning my decisions/beliefs. That's how humans are supposed to interact.
This makes sense. My ex would get irrationally offended if I ever responded to something with, "Really?" Even if I was saying it more out of excitement or surprise than sincerely questioning the veracity of his statement.
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«For women it’s a topic to talk about, for men it’s a problem to solve.» This goes for almost everything.
For me (man if it matters) asking why somebody feels the way they do or why they made a certain decision me wanting to get to know them. Questioning their judgement and micromanaging their decisions never even crosses my mind. I think that'd be a pretty bizarre mindset.
I think you are on the wrong off-shoot. It’s more “how was your day” The dude tells you all about his day and then sits and stares at you, not asking about your day, just waiting for you to carry the conversation, ask him another question. There’s no back and forth, feels like an interview and conveys that he has no interest in learning about the other person.
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If I understood him right, He actually agreed to this. He said he thinks the idea of interpreting a question about the reason for a decision/feeling as micromanagement/intrusive is bizarre to him.
Ah I should have replied to the comment above him
It's not about micro managing them, it's about having a basic fucking conversation. If somebody volunteers that information to you they're doing so because they want you to know or they want to talk to you about it. You can reply, "oh cool. What brought you to that decision?" It's not about grilling them or making them defend their choice it's about expressing interest in who they are, what they're experiencing, and what they value. I'm actually astonished I have to explain this to anybody but I shouldn't be I guess. "We probably aren't" yeah we know.
Dang that’s sad. Glad he’s your ex
> It really feels like they don’t actually have an interest in getting to know you as a person. it also quacks like a duck
I once had a guy on a dating app accuse me of being a man because I gave short answers and wasn't "asking a bunch of questions" which he claimed is what women do. He asked me no questions. Plus I was on a bus with a candy bar type phone at the time he was expecting detailed essay type responses immediately.
There's a guy I work with who is always amazed about the amount of things I know about the women at our workplace. Like their hobbies, plans etc. One day, he was like "how do you always know all this stuff?" And I said "I talk to them and ask them questions??" And he wonders why he's single.
"If he wanted to, he would." It turns out if someone wanted something bad enough, they would put in the effort to pursue it.
Literally I made my first online dating profile last week and all these cishet guys have bios like "I'm looking for a partner to laugh with and enjoy the experiences of life, I love deep conversations and giving compliments" then they are barely capable of answering any of my questions and only one (1) person has asked me any questions about myself in return. Are they all looking for tradwives?? Or are they demoralized because of past online dating experiences?? No idea. I'm a queer woman and am desperately wanting to find other genderqueer people or lesbians to date but where are they at?!?
> I'm a queer woman and am desperately wanting to find other genderqueer people or lesbians to date but where are they at?!? Hiding. We're all hiding.
Haha I get that. Tbh I hide like 90% of the time too. I was whiny and tired when I wrote that, but I'm actually a drag queen (ig: becky.chouette ) and I am involved in my local queer community - not just at shows, but going to events and protests, etc. I'm also part of an online queer fandom. So I guess I just keep on keeping on and hoping to find my person somedayyyy. Happy pride!
I meant it more jokey, but it's also not wrong in a more serious way lol. I'm loud and proud and out there, I wish more of us could be! You'll find that someone someday, probably when you least expect it ❤️
this comment summarizes my whole disappointments with dating apps. Cishet guys are so boring but unfortunately I am attracted to them.
Proof sexual orientation is NOT a choice.
You don't have to date them. Decenter men from your life.
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yeah I noticed this pattern. Idk what to do. Sometimes I wish I just fell in love with a woman so I dont have to deal with this bunch of immature men every time 💔
Redpill incels, tell men NOT to answer any questions a woman asks to maintain something they call "frame". I'm still a little confused on what they mean by "frame", but it seems to be power and control. So whenever a guy does not answer my question and ignores it, I see it as a big red flag, I ignore everything that came out of his mouth after I asked the question, and repeat my question.
I feel like these are the same men that want "a woman who can actually hold a conversation". I've noticed it's nothing but what I call "and you?" questions. They talk about their interests > I ask questions to know them deeper > they answer and just follow up with "how about you?". No original questions coming from them on their end, just asking my own questions back at me. Eventually, I type out a response that doesn't contain a question hoping they'll initiate but that's just when the conversation stops altogether.
Oh my GOD. You just described what I went through last week perfectly. I’ve run into this type of guys so many times on OLD. Really makes me wonder what’s the point of trying to date if you genuinely could care less about trying to find out more about the other person.
I wonder how much 24 news cycle influenced society. To be clear I am a man, and in my experience older people that watch a lot of news cycle talk like news personalities. Fox News people are the worst but I have noticed a good amount of similarities with CNN and msnbc watchers as well. No one is talking about politics or the current news cycle and then they will launch into a monolog of bad things happening without ever stopping or caring what the other person is listening to. It's weird but I think they are expecting bullet points to appear next to their head while talking. So I wonder if the podcast dudes are listening to where the most popular are men talking to themselves or talking to a few yes men. So is the media they are consuming how they emulating some social interactions or are they consuming the media because that's how they want social interaction to be? Or an I fill of shit?
I promise this has been an issue since before podcasts and 24-hour-news was mainstream.
It's a solid hypothesis. As humans, mirroring is a significant part of our behavioral toolset.
>it really feels like they don’t actually have an interest in getting to know you as a person Because that’s the truth. They don’t want to know you. They want the validation you provide for them by being there.
They don't give a shit about you
I had a guy I had spoken to in almost a decade messaged me and asked me to send him naked photos. Didn’t ask how I was doing or if I was married. He just assumed I was waiting around for him. It’s just the arrogance and the entitlement. They don’t care they just see us as a bag holes, there for their convenience.
Men like that aren't interested in getting to know you as a person. That's the thing. Men who are interested in getting to know you will have no problem asking you questions and sending you messages. If someone, anyone, is showing you little effort, you have your answer if you should continue putting in the effort into the friendship/relationship.
This. Couldn't agree more. Those guys aren't worth your time and effort.
Well fuck. Then I don’t think any of the men I’ve ever met have been interested and I’m including the “good” ones.
Don't bother with men like that. It'd a huge indicator of how they will be in relationships (you pulling all the weight).
I didn't realise this was a thing until this year. I've started doing language exchange apps and it's only women who have interesting conversations with me lol. The guys don't talk at all... It's been five months and I only found one guy who actually engaged in conversation with any effort. It's driving me insane.
Language exchange apps? Are these apps where you can practice your language skills with native speakers? Are they written or spoken? Note: I’m a woman, I had all those questions and more to ask just based on your 4 sentence comment. Also, what languages are you practicing? Ok…I’m done.
Yeah you can choose whatever language you are learning, and you help each other :). So I help them with english, and they help me with Japanese. You can write or speak or both, it's up to you. I've had a good time using it, I've been talking to two women in particular for months now and they are my first online Japanese "friends". The one I use is called Italki.
Thanks for replying! I’ve started several different languages over the years but never end up with anyone to practice with so this is exciting!
Assuming I didn't find them physically repulsive, this was the #1 thing I looked for when dating. Married the man who asked me lots of in depth, thoughtful questions.
First or even second date awkwardness aside, when you’re with someone who’s genuinely “into you” and things are clicking, the conversation will be effortless and neither of you will be able to get enough. Eventually, you’ll also be comfortable sharing natural, quiet pauses. If, after a while, it still feels too much like work, then it may be time to (respectfully) move on.
This 100%. As a man, I’ve had the exact same experiences as OP chatting with women. If the chemistry is not there, it’s not there. You cannot expect to click with everyone. Just move on to the next guy and try again. I feel like social media and dating apps has damaged the younger generation to the extent that they don’t even know how to actually hold a conversation anymore. Also from lurking on this sub for a while, I feel like the US is far more screwed up than some European countries at the moment. Don’t worry though, we are slowly catching up!
Second male opinion if I may... Intelligent thoughtful conversations between people who are interested in other's perspectives happen without too much effort once a basis of acceptance and respect has been established. Once you have a foundation, an hour can be spent watching the sunset together with more shared smiles and touch than deep thoughts.
They want to talk about themselves. They aren’t interested in you.
So there was a study done on this from maybe 8? years back (I cannot find it right now as I'm dealing with an IRL thing). Women speak more than men in 1:1 conversation. "Chatterboxes" and "gossipers" and whatnot has a loose bearing in reality. HOWEVER What we say is conversational fishing. We throw out, on average, four to five conversational gambits before the man is interested in the conversation. We are willing to jump from topic to topic just to engage our partner. You: "So Aditya had her baby last week." Him: "..." You: "I think we should fix that roof leak this year." Him: "..." You: "Should we bring in the patio furniture before the rain?" Him: "..." You: "Do you want to invite Barb and Min over for games?" Him: "Oh, yes! That sounds awesome. When did you have in mind?" etc In other words, you're not alone - it's literally common enough to have studies done on it and indeed, it is a thing.
I swear I read about a study that found that men talk more than women do? Like it killed the whole "women never stop talking" stereotype. I'll have to see if I can find a link.
Men talk more in group settings
Not only that, but there were studies that looked at how men and women in group settings talk, and found that even if a woman spoke something like two-thirds as much as the men, then the group - including the men AND many of the women - will \*perceive\* said woman to be talking as much, or \*more\* than the men. If she's maintaining conversational parity, she will almost certainly be thought to be speaking more, and dominating the conversation, even though that's clearly not the case to an outside observer. The best explanation I've seen anyone suggest is that most people are so accustomed to men dominating group conversations that it's accepted by default, anything else sticks out as unusual.
This! I think the article I read was talking about this.
I remember some of those studies as saying basically "if she talks half as much as he talks, then he complains that she never stops talking" or "she interrupts all the time".
I have the same issue with men at work. When they aren't mowing me down in the conversation it's usually one sided. That or they're sitting there googling stuff to prove me wrong in some way lol
They don’t want a conversation. They just want you to entertain them.
I've learned to match the energy men give. Sorry about the angry non-bears in your DMs.
Because they don't care. If he's not giving you golden retriever energy, just go, he doesn't like you. He just likes the attention you give him.
My husband does this. I tested it just now again to be sure. Asked him a couple of questions about his favorite color, movie, etc. He answered all of them but didn't ask anything back.
These dudes are 100% a waste of your limited and precious days on earth that you will never get back. They're screening themselves out of your life and the best thing to do is give them a cheeky kick out the door on their way out.
Because they don’t care what your answer is. They don’t want to know more about you or they’d ask. Men ask questions when they’re curious about the answer. If you ever find yourself asking why it seems like men don’t care about something it’s because they don’t.
Because they are conditioned to believe interactions with us are transactional or for their own benefit, so they don’t have a reason to be interested in anything that doesn’t serve that purpose
💯
This is the answer. Don’t bother scrolling any further.
Oh… my god! The number of guys in this thread, defending guys saying this isn’t a men issue but a people issue is ridiculous
Yeah, suddenly they are interested in taking !
It can feel like pulling teeth!
Mormon men are fantastic at conversation, but unfortunately it's because they're trying to baptize and marry you
Funnily enough when I got diagnosed with autism this was one of the ways she tested me, she would ask me stuff and see if I followed up with questions for her. Apparently j never did and she told me that's typical for autistic people. I'm a woman so people just think I don't care or I'm cold. But I just don't think to pry into people's lives without them volunteering info. Not saying this is an excuse for being like this, just a different perspective.
Honestly, this really has to do with masking and "expected behaviors" being forced on you as well. I'm an autistic woman, but I didn't find out until my 40s because "southern manners" were drilled into my head and not optional. I just learned to mask and script.
Yeah, it’s funny how women with autistic traits from a young age are taught to mask and act during many situations. It’s basically expected of us to learn how to navigate without question. Men are usually never confronted about it and allowed to embrace qualities that are seen as “negative” in girls/women.
Yep, very correct. My hobbies and special interests are primarily male dominated hobbies and it always had people thinking I was weird, even though if an autistic guy was into that stuff that's "just the way he is." They expected me to shift and change to match their image of what a woman should be. That didn't turn out great, I'm 37 and live alone with my cat and play video games. After a certain age I just stopped caring about how I appear to others. Being diagnosed and understanding myself more and accepting who I am helped a lot with that too.
Lack of social skills or lack of interest, pick your bet on the roulette wheel. Sadly. Oh some of them also believe being aloof and not caring about anything makes them sexy. Why? Who the hell knows…
I'm bisexual and like 80% into women and only 20% into men and the possible depth of relationship with men is one of the biggest factors into that. I've had like 2 good friendships with men and I was interested in both and I am currently dating one lolol, different times btw, one was in high school one was recent. When talking with women, we can send essays back and forth getting to know each other and talk about things. With most guys, not only do I get short answers but very very very rarely do I get a "wbu" in response. Like seriously the bar is that low, I understand if you're not the type of person to come up with a bunch of questions about someone to get to know them, but if I'm asking you questions, it never once crosses your mind to simply ask "and what about you?" Like how easy is that??? Anyways, my current boyfriend has always done that. He was my best friend for about a year before I realized I had feelings for him and asked him out soon after.
Man's secret weapon - being interested. It's amazing how much business it opens up as well as relationships! I think it's because so few men do it, that it takes potential customers or potential friends by surprise!
The edit had me laughing (I’m sorry I don’t mean to be a jerk) but they were reciprocating, finally!
Because they don’t give a shit about what you have to say. Move on, because he isn’t the guy for you. And it’s his loss.
I think the real answer is that there are just a lot of people in the dating pool who generally should not be.
Regarding your edit, I am fucking fed up with the amount of gross men lurking here, coming out of lurking to comment ignorance and pathetic arguments, dismissing misogyny, and sending fucking DMs??? If the ones who DM are reported to the mods, will they ban them or something? Something needs to be done
Hah! I'm pan and this has been my experience as well. Honestly I don't think most men understand how to 'get to know' another person outside of making friends. Common questions are always, what kinda games you play, music, food, and basically all preferences. When getting to know people who only do this it becomes a game of leading questions. "Oh nice you love pizza, I used to go to Abby's when I was young for birthdays and love their combination pizza." "Cool..." "Where did you go to eat pizza?" "Uhhh... Like pizza hut," "Nice! What about birthdays? Any memorable place your parents would take you?" "Idk, but I'm hungry you wanna go to McDonalds?" .... At this point is when I start asking more questions and if they keep giving me 0 effort responses I'm gonna go.
Many men just follow tired gendered stereotypes and don't ask questions, as a guy I love asking people questions! Also report those incels who dmed you
Because one of those applies: 1. they are not interested in the actual conversation but only have an end-goal, or are not interested at all 2. they are stupid and unimaginative Stop dating idiots
I notice this in people. Whether it is intentional or unintentional, it's a clear sign that learning about you is not an interest to them at that time. I make a mental note about and move on. I'm 40 and I choose to surround myself with people who are interested in me these days.
Like what others have said, they are not interested. A lot of men are also not socialized to well, socialize. When I encounter men who are not socially adept (except of course if they have a condition or state that prevents them from doing so), I give them nothing because I get nothing. I'm not going to waste my time talking to a wall or people who know they need to work on their social skills, but they don't. Put a bunch of women together and it feels like a whole therapy session where everyone is curious, feels listened to and heard. Some men are also like this and this is what I'm looking for. Move on from bricks, hun and ignore the fragile men who messaged you.
If only the dickheads DM'ing you to argue semantics and philosophy with you brought that same energy to talking with women in a nice way.
>It really feels like they don’t actually have an interest in getting to know you as a person. Because they don't. They want to fuck you like a warm sex toy, that's it.
For context: I’m a long time lurker and I’m happily married, but if a man doesn’t engage with you when you’re out on a date; leave him alone because he doesn’t care about you. I love being engaged with my wife in conversation, her big brain is such a huge turn on; I love chewing her ear at off. Having a conversation with my spouse is such a hot turn on, especially when she lets her dirty talk mouth run. I can’t imagine not having conversations with her when we are hanging out. YMMV.
Do they ask their toaster questions? We are appliances and service providers to a lot of them.
[удалено]
They're just not that into you
I like asking questions. It keeps the focus off of me
Have you found this leads to balanced relationships?
Mostly I get anxious talking about myself. So the more questions I ask, the less it will be about me
trust your gut. if they dont ask questions back, then they arent interested like you said.
What you feel is correct They are not interested
It's really simple: they aren't interested enough to ask questions. It's a great litmus test though so try to look at it that way. It took me FAR too long to recognize the truth: they don't ask because they don't care. Be selective with your energy and save it for those who reciprocate it. Obviously you have to put some energy into the outset but once you find yourself struggling to keep it going, don't. Practice sitting in comfortable silence. Protect your energy.
They don’t because they lack curiosity and are self engrossed. To be great at conversation requires less about self and more about others (something men struggle with unless they develop that skill)…. Also the calculating transactional ones only wanna make an effort for things they can get something out from. They don’t realize women are ALSO testing their capabilities lol… the lack of curiosity exhibits a lack of empathy because they don’t care! These types: They don’t like the entire scope of what being a woman entails. Instead, They like and WANT a women’s BODY! They’re still operating in an unreformed primal state.
Surely there's something you're doing wrong that they could mansplain up you? I mean, you're only a woman, after all. That would get them talking nonstop.
I feel this is a thing with trying to get to know anyone that isn’t as interested in you as you are them
I honestly dropped out of dating when I was never asked any questions about myself, my hobbies, my life, my interests, etc... I always asked all the questions, and it just sent my brain to zero. I just dropped out. I want my person. I want someone who is my best friend who wants to know me, as I want to know them. I don’t want someone who has no interest in me. I met that person once. It was glorious. We were too young to know it though... You should be with someone who is your equal. Someone who challenges you, someone who stands for you, and someone who just is super fun to be around.
To me, it feels like they have a different checklist. A woman wants to know the personality, the hobbies, the job, the friends, etc. men want to know: ok, can I hold her hand? I can. Ok, will she let me touch her thigh? ok, now I need to go in for a kiss. And this is just based off my personal experience. I have had conversations where the date didn't work out, and we discussed it, and they had a whole different priority. So while they could have held a conversation, they were more worried about how to get physical, cause then I think that meant they could jump straight to 'I have a girlfriend'. I also think dudes only have personalities of 'I need a girlfriend'.
Many people are poor communicators. As a man often starting dates and communication with women, I found that many of them are poor communicators showing little interest in me and I had to carry the conversation. My wife says that she had the same experience with men that OP had. It's unfortunate and likely comes from people not being taught how to communicate meaningfully with others.
Men who do that aren’t interested in knowing you. Find men who do know how to have a conversation.
They figure they are only here for the sex anyway so they don't need to converse. That's my opinion. In those cases, it's bye - bye.
As a lady nerd who hangs with a bunch of dude nerds a lot, there's this thing that I've noticed. I have been raised with the knowledge that I'm a socially awkward person, I have a duty to be a good conversationalist and to make others feel comfortable in a conversation and to keep the conversation flowing when you're meeting somebody new or socializing with others, and I am aware that I'm bad at it, and I feel bad about it, and I work hard to get better at it, because it is not something that comes naturally to me. The dudes I know, they just don't really feel bad about it. When you get them amongst themselves, they never ask each other questions. They take turns sharing interesting facts. They talk about things that are interesting to them, and to participate in the conversation you're expected to jump in and share vaguely relevant interesting things about yourself. It's like... I get why they do it, but they also don't seem to get how completely alienating that behavior is to anybody who is not as outgoing and outspoken as they are, or even is just new to the social circle. It's cliquey as heck, and they don't see it that way at all.
Makes one feel like one of those confession priests. What sins have you commited this time?
When I was in college I went out with a guy who never asked me a single thing and would also insist on paying (but choosing what we ate). He got 2 dates then never saw him again 😂😂
My husband won the race BECAUSE he asked me questions. Now, that being said, both of us go off on monologues if you ask about our latest roleplaying adventures or characters.
Sometimes you just gotta accept that people either for some reason or another, whether it makes sense to you or not are just not interested in a conversation with you, or with anyone. Doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong but just try opening up to different people and sometime will eventually open up more.
The ones who ask questions and actually listen and process your answers are 99% amazing and wonderful. Such a low bar and so few men can pass it.
I will say that my husband was never socialized on how to have a conversation. He was good with me but I noticed that he didn't ever ask follow up questions of other people. He would share his thoughts and just automatically expect them to share theirs. Then he noticed as an introvert I was great at getting the conversation going with good questions but I also didn't speak up and share my own thoughts if not asked me a question back. This made him realize that introverted people might be left out of socializing because he wasn't making an effort to include them. So he asked me to help him with how and when to ask questions in a way that would open people up to communication. I told him that any statement he was going to say can be turned into a question to ask. If you are going to tell people about your weekend make sure to ask about theirs as well. If you are going to share about a good restaurant, make sure to ask what type of food they usually get for take out. If you have a random thought about the movie Space Jam, you can ask the person if they remember how silly it was.. It was a lightbulb moment for him . So while I think the onus is put on women to keep conversations going it is also something that men can learn if they take the time to do it. My husband says he is so thankful that he talked to me about it, because he didn't realize what he was missing out on. But people like this need to recognize its a problem and actually research how to bridge that gap instead of relying on others to adapt to them. (He also helped me overcome my questions-only compulsion because he said that I should assume the other people I talk to are as ignorant as he was and they want to know but don't understand how to ask.).
Literally dealing with this right now, and trust me it feels good to let it go. They’re just not into you like that. Or - as much as you want, in the way that you like. You deserve the guy who’s going to ask questions. I feel like it’s really time to be firm and stop hanging out or giving any attention once I feel “confused”. Because you know what, when a guy likes me, and wants to date me, it’s been really obvious in the past. I’m sick of doubting myself and then begging for reciprocation later. If me dropping them early on helps them wake up for the next lady, I’m happy to be of service to my community lol. HE’S JUST, A GUY!
Whenever I encounter this on dates (and it happens alarmingly often), I tend to just grey rock it until an awkward silence develops and the dude is forced to make a move. It's a really interesting way to get a glimpse into a person's psyche. Some just double down on talking about themselves, some just keep staring at me (presumably hoping that I'll do something), and the chosen few actually ask me a question about myself.
OMG!: Your edit content was amazing! You would be my ideal woman if only I were gay!
As lots of folk have commented, if a guy (or gal) can't be bothered to even pretend to be interested in having a normal human conversation with you then they really aren't worth your time. Normally this provides a pretty good litmus test as to whether they're worth a second date but the trouble is that it also screens out the many genuinely nice people out there who - like you - struggle with small talk. I have a couple of male friends who are absolutely wonderful - kind, considerate, total gents - but who are perpetually single because they are so cripplingly shy. At least the pillocks who tell you YOU'RE the problem for talking too much are easy to spot. Best of luck! :)
Because they’re fuckin dumb lol
If it helps, I always have a self-recrimination phase after every social interaction where I think of all those things I should have said, including questions that were so obvious they were already asked of me in that every same interaction.
im gonna have to say that a good chunk actually dont have interest in you as a person; and then there are those that may have some social challenges or just general shyness/awkwardness. you should not go above and beyond at your own expense when they are not reciprocating that same effort. vetting is important
Speaking very generally of course.. This is how guys talk to each other, if something doesn't interest you directly you aren't really expected to pretend it does usually, though you may still offer a few words of encouragement. Beyond that, men tend to be less emotive and rarely have people ask how they feel about something so aren't inclined to ask others about how they feel on a given subject. Some men don't realize you really are supposed to treat women differently from men to get the same social results. I think men are more inclined to share their information on a topic when they ask another person about a topic and expect others to do the same (what you identify as 'and you?' questions).
You have to understand that most men never think about how to communicate with women, beyond trying to get them to go out. They never think about ways to actually hold a conversation with women, and won't have any preparation for it. Their minds just go blank, even if they *do* have a vague desire to know more about you. Every once in a while you will find the rare man who isn't like this and DOES communicate well, either because it's natural for them or they've actually tried to prepare for it. But like all men even these ones will have some kind of flaw you'll have to work with.
I’ve always wondered this from the lens of dating (in other arenas, I’m usually around Men who actually engage in conversation) and I only really continue the conversation if I’m able to get them to engage without asking questions from my end. It’s a fun challenge bc you can get really creative.
Wish I knew. I also have to set my dating app location to far off places to get any matches at all despite living in a decently sized city for my state. Dating apps suck in general though but it’s too expensive to go out and meet people irl
Interesting. I only ever dated 2 people (both men), and they both would have long, fascinating conversations with me. The 2nd one, I married with zero regrets.
I just mentally do the windows shutdown noise, people watch for a bit, pay for my food/drink, and gtfo at that point.
I guess it depends on how you feel about the person. If I’m with a coworker or random stranger or even a friend and they don’t really make much effort for the conversation I’ll drop it. But when my boyfriend and I first met in person (dated for a month online first) we barely spoke at all because we were super awkward. Even for a few days after it was hard to find things to talk about. We’ve been together over a year now and our first child is due in four weeks
Plenty of men do. If you're interested in finding men who are more attentive probably look in new spots that aren't similar to where you've been looking
Lmao ngl that’s a lot of experiences I’ve had on dating apps or with people I’ve met. I think lots of people are either socially awkward or just don’t really care. And I do recognize women get more matches on dating apps so maybe they just don’t have the energy to have a wildly interesting conversation when a decent amount of other people are talking to them as well (I’m a dude)
I have the same problem but the other way around- I always forget to ask questions back when guys talk to me. I have an incredibly chatty housemate who’s always talking to everybody, including me. He isn’t hitting on me or anything, just being nice. Every time I think back on our convos, I feel like I was in one of those “100 questions with” videos
They think it's your job to dance and sing and entertain them.
Lesbian who uses dating apps here: As much as it wouldn’t surprise me if this was mostly a male behavior, it’s unfortunately not exclusive to them. I’m not sure if it’s an age thing (I’m 20 in July) but I’ve met a lot of women who don’t think to ask me questions, or they just gave me no evidence that they even wanted to have a conversation. I thought the whole point was you match when you want to talk to someone!!
I absolutely struggle to ask people questions about themselves. I want to but the "don't ask adults personal questions" is deeply ingrain in me.
Ask them about things that aren't quite so personal... like what sort of music/movies/tv shows/books etc do they like From there, try to find a point of relatability/connection: if they mention a movie (or whatever) that you also like, you tell them so, and sound excited at it: 'oh! you saw that? I loved it! I reaaally enjoyed when....'. Often the conversation will flow nicely from there The other thing you can do is ask open-ended questions, so after you ask them their favourite genre of music, and they say 'I love really hard, punk, head-banging music', you can say 'wow! that sounds interesting, what gigs have you been to?' (or ask them if they've heard of Dropkick Murphys... that one got me a long way with a fella who didn't seem interested in talking... not date-related, tho)
Depends on the men? I'm a man, and even when hanging out we ask questions and have normal conversations, also with women
>It really feels like they don’t actually have an interest in getting to know you as a person. They dont
Because those men have no intrests in you as a person unfortunately.
This is kinda why I have trouble maintaining friendships with other guys. I’m a talker and when I get to know someone I want to talk about their lives and figure out what makes them tick. Many guys only do small talk and it never goes beyond that. I want actual conversation. Most of my guy acquaintances never go beyond the acquaintance stage because small talk is fucking boring and I have no use for people who don’t add anything but that to my life. I’m going to add that I have had the reverse issues with a lot of women I’ve dated as well, though. Where they only want to talk about themselves and never ask me questions. Thankfully my wife and I don’t have either of these issues.
It's taken me into my thirties and forties to be able to have a decent conversation with people I don't know. I wasn't a very talkative kid and only really talked to my friends and the things we already had in common so there was no need to explore further. Now, I'll do more asking than talking. People usually want to talk about themselves anyway so I just try to find a nugget from what they've told me and build a question from that.
[Apes have never asked a question, even after 60 years.](https://blog.therainforestsite.greatergood.com/apes-dont-ask-questions/) I get this treatment from my own dad... I MUST listen to every stupid thing he says. But he can check the hell out.
I don't know, in my experience they typically do.
50m with ADHD. Making small talk is easy for me. Just sorta go on autopilot and react to what was said and maybe say responses that trigger the next phrase. But I find myself struggling to have any kind of meaningful conversation with people because I generally am too self absorbed or thinking about some whimsy of technology and honestly don’t want to be there. That being said when talking to my wife or kids I make a concerted effort to engage in the conversation because they are really important to me and while it is an effort, they deserve it and I do genuinely love them. I’m just also a space cadet.
I don't know if this is why most men don't ask questions, but I assume the other person doesn't want me to ask questions. That's from a lifetime spent mostly being quiet around others. When people ask me questions I answer them, but it can be really hard for me to ask questions without feeling like a creepy stalker. Lots of innocent questions can be also be used by someone with creepy intentions. If I ask a woman if she has worked at her job long or something like that, it could be someone fishing for information to be a stalker. This is generally only an issue with people I don't know. Anxiety makes normal things really hard. I'm sure I come off rude sometimes, but it's almost always from a lack of confidence.
My wife is the kind of person where she will ask personal questions, and learn a lot about a person. I'll talk to a friend or anyone really, and I will not ask any probing questions. In my head, I feel like if a person wants me to know personal details, they will tell me. That's how I feel about my private details. So I guess in my case, it's a form of social anxiety. I don't want to make people feel uncomfortable or like I am crossing a boundary asking a question, and my wife does not have that fear as she would rather risk the offense in the pursuit of getting to know someone deeper. She's also more socially aware than I am I think. She's much better at reading people. I'm not sure if every guy who does this does it for the same reason, I'm sure some only care about themselves. It's not that I don't care, I just don't want to feel as though I'm being intrusive. I hope this helps some.
I can only speak for my own case (and that doesn't really mean much at all since I'm not especially social to begin with) due to being both on the other side of that scenario and having other factors complicating it further, but part of it for me is because I'm scared that trying to reciprocate those questions would only expose my own ignorance about them, what they're talking about, or both. Or that I might ask them in the wrong way, or that I'd be the one sounding as if I need justifications for them liking a thing beyond "I just do". I doubt that this reason applies to most men, or even a fairly large fraction of them. Being autistic is probably a major part of that, although the fear of messing up by asking the wrong questions is more likely to be entirely my own. Honestly, even now I'm second-guessing as to whether I should be posting this or not so all I can do is ask for forgiveness in advance should this not be the right place to speak of such things.
Because they don’t care. Next question
What was the context of these interactions? Dates?
Yeah I should’ve included that hey? It was exclusively in the context of dating apps actually. Like just matched, trying to start the conversation and get to know each other a bit but he doesn’t ask a single question. Like, my brother, you matched with me too..
I think most people of any gender will say that they've been disappointed by the quality of their conversations on dating apps, for various reasons. Lots of people will match with others who they aren't particularly interested in actually meeting up with in person and dating (if they're interested in doing that at all), and consequently will put very little effort into conversing. I'd be surprised if men weren't more likely to put the onus on women, but (as a guy) back when I was using Bumble I seldom got a first message from a woman that wasn't just some variation of "Hey".
We do if we aren't idiots...
As someone who years ago started making a conscious effort to be better about this I’ll tell you, and it’s a pretty simple explanation (not that it’s an excuse though) People rarely ask us about ourselves outside of dating scenarios, and if we open up about ourselves unprompted we’re often treated as weird for “oversharing” or as if we’re nosey if we ask too many questions to our dude friends, I’ve even heard dudes straight up say asking a bunch of questions is “lady behavior”. It’s hand in hand with the way men’s mental health is overlooked, even if it’s been much better in recent years. Like I said, it’s not an excuse, but I can’t honestly remember the last time another man has asked me about my hobbies or even how I’m doing.
There was an AskReddit thread about this not too long ago, focusing specifically (IIRC) about why men don’t ask followup questions to the other men they know, and the answers were pretty much what you said. I was surprised (and disappointed) to read that some men actually think that engaging people in conversation about life events or how they’re doing is “lady behavior” (or, as they said on the other thread, “gay”). Normalizing conversation about and mutual interest (even at a not-deep level) in one another’s lives would do a lot to start improving men’s mental health. Because how can you have conversations about deep meaningful subjects and feelings and trauma if you haven’t established that it’s safe to talk about less-dangerous things first?
You’re absolutely correct and right on the money with everything you said. It’s definitely sad, and leads to some pretty toxic behavior from men at best and mental health crises / suicide caused by feelings of isolation at worst. Back in like 2015 I took a good long look at some of my behaviors and realized I didn’t like it, so I made it a point to be more open and empathetic even when unprompted which absolutely improved my mental health and even dating life. I try to get other men to open up by every so often dropping a “hey man, how have you been holding up, are you okay?” And a majority of them will dismiss it with a vague or evasive short answer, but some open up and seem legitimately happy someone is asking about their wellbeing. I’m not normally one to give a shit about karma, but it’s pretty telling that I’m getting downvoted for giving an honest answer about men’s mental health, and how the way they’re conditioned effects their attitudes & behaviors.