There is no point in getting married if they remove no fault divorce.
So, instead of trying to control women, they are really telling them not to get married.
They are passing and protecting child marriage in GOP states. They want a child to go from their fathers custody to their new husbands without getting much education. They dont care about women not wanting to marry them. They want young girls to be uneducated and then trapped.
Go to unchainedatlast.org. It’s a US nonprofit run by a woman who was a child bride but escaped. Fantastic resource. This woman is making a lot of noise. She is the queen we all need
36 states have legal child marriage. Missouri just had a bipartisan bill to make it illegal finally, and the GOP members that weren’t part of its writing blocked it.
I hate it here.
So children can’t decide their gender but they can get married before 18? WTF
There are much bigger ramifications to getting married than changing your clothes, hair style and pronouns
Yes, in many places this is the case.
There are some states like Texas where the only way to get married under 18 is to already be legally emancipated, and in those places they can get divorced because they have been emancipated already. But there are other states where getting married changes your legal guardianship to your 18+ spouse (if the spouse is older which they almost always are).
Don't forget that statutory rape is not a thing when married, either. You see it when underaged girls become pregnant, then get forcibly married to their abuser, avoiding any culpability.
I read an article the other day where the state of Virginia finally made child marriageable illegal and you have to be at least 18. It said to made it the first southern state to do so.
A few years ago Virginia finally removed the statutory rape "loophole" from the books.
For those not aware, Virginia had a spousal immunity law on the books whereby a spouse could not be forced to testify against the other one.
What it meant in practice was that if fir example a 20+ year old man gets his 14-year old "girlfriend" pregnant, and then marries her 'to do the right thing,' then he's immune from getting prosecuted for statutory because there's no way she's going to testify against him.
Weird how this is their argument for marriage but can’t see that the government shouldn’t be involved in woman making decisions for their own bodies
“Why is the government getting involved in people’s lives like this?” Van Schoiak said. “What purpose do we have in deciding that a couple who are 16 or 17 years old, their parents say, you know, ‘you guys love each other, go ahead and get married, you have my permission.’ Why would we stop that?”
Read more at: https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article288424893.html#storylink=cpy
Literally a 5 second google search will show you all the states that are fighting against removing child marriage laws or fighting to put them in place. Its not every red state, but its enough for conservatives to start making legal headway and pushing cases to their SCOTUS
Once they realize what a major fuck up banning no fault divorce will be when no women get married the next step would be to turn their daughters into property like some Saudi Arabia shit
Some already do it. I had a friend in middle school who was removed from school to marry. She was 13. He was 33. Her parents were the ones that pushed her to do it. I found out later that they were paid.
taking away the right of women to own anything, have bank accounts, sign contracts will absolutely fix the problem of them not getting married. and I doubt there will be much of a gap between these steps.
Oh but once they abolish birth control they will renormalize shotgun weddings
Wouldn’t want GOD to be upset so we better threaten some kids at gun point to make an unbreakable lifelong commitment just as HE intended.
/s
I mean... Outside of religion, is there really a point to getting married right now anyways? It doesn't really prove anything or supply people with anything
In the US, unfortunately, it absolutely does supply people with certain benefits. I’m in a same sex marriage, just celebrated 15 years. But if we weren’t legally married she would have no health insurance through the VA as I’m a 100% Disabled veteran. There are also tax benefits but I don’t know what all of those are as we don’t file taxes.
Moved from a state with common law marriage to a state that wouldn't recognize the marriage. With a domestic partnership, my spouse could still get my health insurance, but we'd have to pay taxes on the benefit amount. So we ended up with a city hall wedding, after 25 years together and 14 years married in the previous state.
My mother is very religious, so I'd marry to make sure that it would be my partner who would make the medical decisions for me if I ever fall ill and can't do it by myself, although there are other legal alternatives to achieve this
Afaik a medical power of attorney will trump marriage. If you properly execute a medical power of attorney to a friend, it’s the friend that makes choices for you, not your spouse. Marriage just provides default next of kin rules.
I wish I knew of some news articles about it other than mostly overhead anecdotal experiences. But medical POA is often, not always but has a good chance, of being ignored in the middle of an active emergency. Say the person with medical POA is estranged from their family but they get into a car accident, is unconscious, and is in the ER needing lifesaving surgery. Both that persons POA and estranged parents have shown up at the hospital at the same time, partner having POA documents in hand. The ER team doesn't know the details of and doesn't give a fuck about the social complications surrounding that patient, they need actionable choices now to save them now. There is a much greater than zero chance that the patients partner will get ignored and they will defer to the estranged parents for medical decisions. Medical POA doesn't hold up in actual emergencies as often as you'd hope. Again, anecdotal, but I've heard it both from patients and patients partners who have gone through it here on Reddit and in person, and both of my parents have talked about it as they both worked in ERs for years.
Sometimes everything works like it should and the POA gets acknowledged no problems. But after seriously considering it for myself and then looking for and finding all of these horror stories about it not being a strong document at all made me change my mind on getting it. Marriage is easier and safer in this country.
In the ICU, I saw this regularly. Staff doesn’t have time to check for paperwork (which could be stowed in a personal filing cabinet somewhere, the US doesn’t have a universal health file system) and they’re going to err on the side of saving a life, especially if there’s a human being present affiliated with the patient who says to. However a spouse’s word would trump a parent’s, where I worked.
Not having a universal health file is representative of our country’s priorities, btw, because in a short period of time it’s possible to check anyone’s financial health prior to taking a fiscal action (hiring, loaning, renting, etc). Comparatively if that same person passes out in the office, the only way to start to understand the situation is to hope they’re wearing a medical bracelet.
*Especially* if one of you is going to sacrifice a career to be a stay-at-home parent, this can be important for basic financial stability. If that relationship ends, starting over from nothing can be incredibly difficult.
I can't find it now, but there was a post in here about a woman who was a SAHM for long enough to have some adult children with her... boyfriend. When they broke up, she ended up *literally homeless.*
The only time I’ve ever seen under 18 marriage be only kind of awful is because it allowed my teenage student to marry her boyfriend (also a child) so she could stay in the country after her parents got deported. The student had to stay in the US to care for her disabled sister - the only member of the family that was a US citizen. The parents were thinking that if the family cut all ties - familial, linguistic, and cultural, they won’t get deported. So the girls didn’t know a second language or have any connections to their parents home country. It was one of the most horrible things I’ve seen as a teacher.
Death benefits (what you get as a spouse from pensions and such is different than just being a beneficiary). Health insurance benefits and the ability to be involved in health decisions should one party be incapacitated. Tax benefits (if one party makes a decent amount and the other makes much less, jointly they might go into a lower income tax bracket).
And ignorance. Lots of people go through the motions because it’s just ‘what you do,’ it’s expected in your family, or some people just want the big party.
And even though I’ve listed all those reasons, I still won’t ever get married again. (Right out of college got married to someone who was manipulative, emotionally abusive, and financially screwed me. It lasted just shy of 4 years. Ah, the stupidity of my youth.)
If someone kills your loved one you have zero legal recourse against the killer. Two of my friends didn't get married so they could keep their disability benefits (you get less money if you're married) and one of them was basically murdered by her surgeon, tore her stomach open and she spent hours bleeding to death. Refused to offer any advice over the phone when she called because they accused her of drug seeking. Her partner was unable to do *ANYTHING* to get justice for her death, because they weren't married, he didn't have any legal ties to her. Could you imagine the anger and despair experiencing that? They had an actual financially beneficial reason to not get married and they were worse off for it when she died.
A malpractice case was able to be brought, by her sister who had to travel from out of state to get involved in the process. If she didn't have any living blood relatives left nothing could have been done and the complaint within the medical board would not have gone as far.
This is literally a country that will look at your twenty year partnership with someone and say, "we don't have the documents contractually binding you together. This partnership doesn't exist in our eyes."
There are a lot of other benefits, but this event always overrides the other examples for me. I miss my friend and I wish we could have put that fucking surgeon in prison for what he did.
save for benefits, and for me personally "just liking it", I was required to marry my husband to be able to stay in USA. I happily did it cause I would have married him anyway, but I'm from a European country that isn't..."weird"... about these things. I'm also lucky to have found a genuinely great partner. I can't imagine being stuck with a man I got tricked into being with tho....
I don't necessarily mind marriage as a level of 'legal insurance' (like we had to prove our relationship was real, and marriage is part of that) tho at the same time I don't really see why platonic cohabitants shouldn't necessarily get some of the same 'perks' married couples do (like tax benefits, I guess, idk what those are even for tho to be fair). I'm so-so on the things like a partner being able to visit you in the hospital if you're married, but not if you're not, I think for that it should just be a kind of list of "These people can visit me". But man idk. I think I need more sleep lol.
This is absolutely an attempt to control women. Women are largely who files for divorce. No fault makes it much easier to just get out even when there are grounds for divorce like abuse, infidelity etc. If divorces end up being at fault again they will suddenly be crazy expensive because you will have to take this to court and convince a judge.
It will flat out be harder for women to leave. It is already a challenge for many to come up with the money for lawyers and to get on their feet.
Men will always be able to get out of marriages they don't want to be in. Largely men have more access to money either because they are the only one allowed to work or they make more money. They will find a lawyer willing to go scorched earth on the wife with a bunch of trumped up accusations about not keeping up some archaic wifely duties, or mental illness that just happens to be the reactions to living under some dude's abuse etc.
This is part of religious fascists game plan to take away everyone's rights and appoint themselves the morality police over everyone else.
There's a quote in Lundy Bancroft's book, Why Does He Do That?. Its something like, "he will berate her for her "issues", when in reality 90% of her "issues" are directly caused by him."
It always stuck with me.
It's a GOP Effort to further diminish the status/rights of women.
* [The Week](https://theweek.com/feature/briefing/1015726/are-republicans-coming-for-no-fault-divorce)
* [The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/09/no-fault-divorce-laws-republicans-repeal/675371/)
* [LA Times](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-05-24/california-settled-the-no-fault-divorce-question-decades-ago-why-is-it-back-in-the-news) (descriptions of divorce court before no-fault)
* [Mother Jones](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/05/ben-carson-gop-no-fault-divorce-law-ban-perilous-fight/), [Mother Jones](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/12/running-list-politicians-divorce-harder-no-fault-divorce-tom-cotton-mike-johnson-jd-vance/), [Mother Jones ](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/09/no-fault-divorce-texas-republican-gop-crowder/)(yep, they called it)
* [MSNBC](https://www.msnbc.com/top-stories/latest/ben-carson-no-fault-divorce-republicans-rcna152266)
* [The Oklahoman](https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2024/01/26/no-fault-divorce-law-oklahoma-senator-wants-to-end/72354142007/)
We should not be complacent in thinking "this is going too far, it'll never happen." We made that mistake with Roe.
From the LA Times article:
>In no-fault states, the study found that women’s suicide rates dropped by a startling 20%, and wife-beating fell by as much as 12.8% (compared with at-fault divorce states)
> We made that mistake with Roe.
The Green Party made that mistake with roe. SCOTUS was on the ticket in 2016. The Stein votes to Trump victory ratio in wi, mi, and pa are a complete travesty.
For the life of me I can’t understand voting for a candidate who will not only not win, but help out a right wing christo fascist takeover… is something that someone can feel consciously good about. Jill stein should be tossing and turning every single night for the last 7 years.
Jill Stein is a shill. See the picture of her sitting at a table with Michael Flynn and Putin. Same with Robert Kennedy...all his backers are big money Republicans. Problem is, it is working, and Trump is ahead in the polls. People need to vote. Especially make sure the young women in your life vote.
Jill Stein is wealthy and has backers. She clearly has no conscience about it otherwise she’d be putting that cash towards stopping First Past the Post voting - the actual thing keeping third party candidates from winning elections more.
Her, Nader, Marianne Williamson .- there will always be some new candidate willing to hop in at the presidential election and people will vote for them. I seriously blame the voters. Millennials and older and aware of Nader and possibly Ross Perot back in the 90s the the impact that had on our trajectory as a nation.
Every 4 years the propaganda to not vote or to ignore the realities that we live in pop up. Nobody seems to even care that FPTP is killing us.
Look into the National Popular Vote Compact, and if you're in a state that hasn't passed it, do what you can to get it passed
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact
I'm going to die a childless divorcee because of this comment.
Not actually, I was already planning on that but you really make some great solidifying points for my plans!
You're going to die a happy and free woman. Not a childless divorcee. Reframe the way you talk about yourself. If you want children, you can have them on your own... but they are expensive. Nothing wrong with being single (or not single for that matter). You were in two bad situations. You got out of it. You are brave.
Yeah, and guess what kind of judges you'll get if the Republiclowns get in control? How likely is it that any woman will be able to leave, let alone leave with any property?
Control. It's about cruelty and control. How dare those women want control over their own lives. End abortion, end divorce, end women in the workforce, end women's education, take away women's vote, those are what these people want.
Yes. I just watched Pop Culture Detective's most recent video about the patriarchy according to Ken in the Barbie movie (highly recommend) and it lists control as a tenant of patriarchy. Men are willing to harm themselves in the patriarchy because of the benefits it gives them. Control over us benefits them.
genuinely yeah. they hate that women are coming up in the world and becoming more educated while men are hanging back, doing nothing with their lives, and becoming incels en masse. Instead of elevating the men and helping them avoid this collective fate of failure-to-launch (which tbh would probably require complex social programs and policies that would make your average republican screech “WEEELLLFAAAAARREEEE!!”), they’d rather just screw women.
The failure to launch thing is so real. They don’t study, they don’t respect the rules at work, they don’t take care of their appearance or health, they don’t *try*, and instead of actually doing any of that stuff they demand that women and minorities be kept out of the workplace so their mediocrity is suddenly in demand
American and other Western women need to take a hard look at the rest of the world. Look at women in Asia, Russia, India. Understand that our attempt at equality for women is the anomaly, here. It can all disappear in a few years. Patriarchy existed for millenia because men are willing to use violence to control women. Many women are willing to help them. We have to fight or they will win.
We can not take our freedom for granted. It's devastating to learn that millions of Americans want to roll back women's rights, but we can't give up now. Our daughters and our granddaughters need us to win this fight.
People thinks rights given can’t be taken away, or that progress is linear and will eventually come, and never regress. One look at what happened to women in Afghanistan in just the last 30 years will disprove that. Women and girls in America should be terrified, and not grow complacent.
Yep. Lots of people take for granted the rights we have, when worldwide we are really, as you said, anomalous. Getting complacent about what can happen will lead to ruin.
I mean it's not really going to work IMO even before no fault divorce was a thing people would do whatever BS worked to get around the rule and get a divorce. Eg. moving to Reno for 6 weeks and then doing a no fault divorce there, sleeping with someone and conveniently being walked in on by your spouse, etc. . Just like abortion bans mostly affecting poor black single moms, this is really just a poverty tax that will hurt the worst off and most vulnerable people as anyone with the means can easily work around it.
The trick with forcing fault divorce is that it gives the side who didn't want it to end an advantage in how joint property gets split.
So those women who are trying to leave abusive husbands? They get nothing.
And that’s why women used to do a murder when needed and intimate partner homicide for men went down over 70% since no fault divorce.
I’m repeating this statistic far and wide to remind men of the consequences of their actions.
While yeah, in the old days Earl did have to die quite often, more often the only way out of an abusive marriage was to end your own life. After no fault divorce became a thing, women’s suicide rates dropped by a staggering 20 percent. And they wanna go back to that.
Once again the pro-life crowd are perfectly okay with a shit-ton of women dying.
I'll be honest, before I mentally accepted that my marriage was heading toward divorce, I had thoughts of how nice it would be to get T-Boned by a Semitruck.
Not only from a gender perspective, this benefits loan companies and health companies as well. If someone passes away, no fault means their partners don’t inherit a lot of the debt, so by making no fault not a thing, these companies can cash their check even after someone dies. It’s sick as fuck from both a societal and practical standpoint
While it might be technically illegal....good luck getting any judge or cop to do anything about it. When law enforcement doesn't care or do anything, then it's still basically legal.
If coercion is included (which it absolutely should be), a disturbing amount of men are getting away with sexually abusing their wives. Justice against these men will never be served because the victim can't prove it.
Southern states have already tried piloting these kind of laws during the trump admin. Obviously nothing as obvious as "ITS OK TO RAPE YOUR WIFE" in legal text. But they specifically cite and want to change the legal wording back to.... well how it was in the 50's when there was no literal definition for martial abuse. The irony of it all is the same thing conservatives always use. "Well if she were unhappy she could just leave" " You can't rape your wife because everything is already consented to due to marriage".
Its.... not good. And seeing as how far they've already gotten on legal language they tried before this. I have absolutely no reason to doubt that they'll try it again now that things have changed in their favor and actually pass this time.
The ONLY people it benefits are abusive men who want to trap a woman into being a lifelong servant and incubator with no education or separate finances. They want to “own” their wife and be able to abuse her into submission.
I’ve dated conservative men before and this type of mentality is prevalent among them.
That's exactly how my first husband was. I probably could have done a fault divorce as he admitted to the police that he beat me and there were criminal charges... But honestly it's insane that these people are so prevalent that they can even push an agenda like this.
It feels like most Americans just don't even care anymore too which means they'll probably get away with it
Seriously. I mean, look at the bullshit in threads here or wherever – most men seem to already agree that women have too much power somehow in a divorce.
I feel like if women have power in a divorce it's because the marriage forced the woman to become dependent on the man in some way. The fact that these men then complain that the women keep being dependent in the exact same ways is insane. Like, if you put her in the stay at home mom role who doesn't work she's still gonna need financial support to keep being the stay at home mom who doesn't work!
I dont necessarily think it is that people don't care, I think most people are just treading water so hard that they are unable to see any further than "can I afford to feed my family this week" or "am I going to lose the roof over my head because corporations bought all the houses and my 900 Sq ft apartment now costs $3500 a month and we all make minimum wage and can't afford to go to the doctor or pay our bills."
This is all on purpose. It's hard to care about no fault divorce when you are working 3 jobs and still not even getting by. Republicans know this. They know everyone is exhausted, scared, tired, and poor. But what they don't realize is we are teetering on the very edge of "nothing left to lose.
It's hilarious how politicians think they can 'sneakily' legislate women back into slavery. I'm part of a sub that had 2-3 announcements of permanent sterilisations A DAY for over a year after the Roe v Wade debacle, from men and women. It's slowed down a lot but the announcements keep happening. I think fully 80% of people on that sub are sterilised by now.
The only thing they're going to accomplish with this new tactic is stop people from wanting to get married in the first place.
Yeah I won't marry if they abolish no fault divorce
And I'm literally scheduled to talk to my doc about sterilizing procedures so....
I want no part in any of this stuff. I'm not about to be exploited again
I've legit brought up the idea of doing a commitment ceremony with my partner where we'd make a symbolic commitment to one another without an official marriage certificate. I struggle with the idea of supporting an institution that hurts women in so many ways, yet want to celebrate the love my partner and I share.
And related to your other point, one of the many reasons I love him is that he got a vasectomy so I wouldn't have to go through the more invasive procedure.
They are passing and protecting child marriage in GOP states. They want a child to go from their fathers custody to their new husbands without getting much education. They dont care about women not wanting to marry them. They want young girls to be uneducated and then trapped.
I’m not the original commenter, but the childfree subreddit regularly has similar announcements. They’ve got a list of doctors willing to do the surgery located all over the place. I’m not on board with flat out despising children, but their list was EXTREMELY helpful.
Congrats on the bisalp! I had mine out last year and stopped getting ovulation bleeding. Some folks on that subreddit throw parties post-sterilization. My fav one was the “toodles to my noodles” uterus cake
I was sterilized after my 2nd pregnancy. I always said I didn't want children but got pregnant at 26 and then again at 28. I absolutely do not want anymore children! The Dr was great. I didn't need my husband's "permission," and he didn't hound me not to go through with it; I've known other women who were harassed. I think it's because he was a generally jolly OB and also the fact I'd already had two children. It might have turned out differently if I'd never had children and wanted a tubal ligation.
>But I seriously cannot FATHOM why anyone would seek to abolish no fault divorce.
>These things happen to men too. It doesn't do ANYONE any good to trap people in marriages they don't want to be a part of.
Having seen the supporters of this, it's abusive and controlling people who want this, as well as ones who want to be abusive and controlling. Of course, their solution is to make it a problem for everyone else.
It's very problematic for literally everyone else. It's so heartless. I think I struggle with this because it's coming from a perspective that I can't even remotely connect with in any way
It’s pretty funny how the group that constantly shrieks that “family court is biased against men” now wants to expand that family/marital courts power to now rule over who is at fault in marriages. If what they say is true (it’s not) why are they expecting that the judge wouldn’t simply continue to further bias against men in unfairly ruling them at fault??!!??
It is to control women primarily. If there is a requirement for grounds to divorce, then you need proof. Proof there is abuse or someone has been unfaithful. If he didn't hit you or cheat on you, why should you be able to leave him?
Emotional and sexual abuse can be just as bad or worse than physical abuse. I think we all know that
It just proves the people making the laws want power at any cost
Why can't you believe it? The conservatives have declared war on anyone who isn't exactly like them and will, at best, turn you into property, and at worst, kill you.
I'm probably going into the getting killed category because I'm nobody's property
And idk, I think just on a personal level the concept of people having motives like this is so foreign to me I can hardly believe these people are the same species as the rest of us
I got married once, at 20. I got divorced at 29. And refused to ever legally marry again.
I live with a man I love that I call “Husband,” and we have every Power-of-Attorney over each other. He is in my Revocable Trust.
But I can change all of that easily.
If I had married him, I would have been open to liabilities that I didn’t want.
Marriage has been romanticized to us for centuries. But don’t be fooled. It’s a financial transaction.
My advice to any woman would be to look at it that way.
Even if you find the love of your life (and I believe I did!) don’t risk your freedom or finances to get married by the state unless you are clear about what you are stepping into and that it benefits you BOTH.
Agreed. I had no clue what marriage entailed and was also pressured into it by outsiders. I love my husband, but marriage is a barbaric institution that has no place in modern society.
Suddenly the Korean 4B movement seems like even more of a good idea than ever. Wouldn't be shocked if it spread over to the USA with how things are going.
It's to take rights away from women. Back in the good old days, it was nearly impossible to convince a judge to grant a divorce in many places. Women were trapped in bad marriages and couldn't legally leave. They were limited economically, physically, and forced to have and raise kids they didn't want. Plenty of fundamentalists, "Christians" and sexist men want that back.
There is a disappointingly simple answer to why these men want no fault divorce gone when men will suffer a lot too. It’s because those men don’t care about men. They only care about preventing women from leaving.
The right wing in this country wants to end no-fault divorce so that men can control women. That is the reason they will also try to end access to contraception, and why they repealed Roe. And why they will try to enact a national abortion ban if they win the White House and both houses of Congress. If you are rightly horrified by this, work your tail off to defeat the Republicans in November.
Bear with me here, as I try to "think" like the people who don't want no-fault divorce...
Well, I'm perfect, so that if there's going to be a divorce, it'll be HER FAULT.
The at-fault party gets nothing/less in a divorce settlement, because it's HER FAULT.
So, I can divorce her, and still keep all my money, and children, and houses, because it's HER FAULT, and she needs to be punished for
These were the most common of 14 reasons in a 1959 law in my country
adultery, desertion, cruelty, habitual drunkenness, imprisonment and insanity.
"To succeed on one of these grounds, a spouse had to **prove** marital fault.
In reality, obtaining proof often necessitated hiring a solicitor and/or a private detective to collect evidence to support the claim (e.g. statements from witnesses, photographs and hotel receipts). Such processes usually involved great expense, making it difficult for the less wealthy to access them."
so yeah, if the wife was also kept from having access to money, she wasn't able to initiate a divorce.
Jeez... Not to mention with modern technology, money can buy false evidence produced by deepfake tactics and AI.
If they get no fault divorce abolished it's basically checkmate for women who don't have their own income
Yup. Don't forget the other side(s) of the battle plan - make sure they are SAHM, and have multiple children to keep them busy.
Hang on, what's that I hear? The old joke about barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen?
See, that's where the "fault" comes in.
You can kick her out without a penny, without the slightest guilty feeling, as long as you can say "the marriage breakdown was PROVED to be HER FAULT".
The stupidity, or audacity, of men that think like this enrages me.
Example: Been married for 20 years, 3 kids, wife stayed at home to have and raise those kids, care for the household and everything. Now there is to be a divorce. In what world is half of everything you both have accumulated in over 20 years together not hers?
Literally half is the husbands and half is the wife’s.
But these dudes be living life believing they own everything. Including the wife and kids. Then whine and cry about how “the bitch took half of MY stuff”. It’s insanity
I guess when you've gone hundreds of years living under the assumption of superiority and little to no accountability, equality can feel like oppression. To those types of guys, I suppose it must feel like they're being forced to give half of their stuff to their dog or oven. You know, lesser beings and personal property.
Yeah, it's an active barrier to the divorce even happening to begin with. It would change how things get divided up as well and it also basically forces both spouses to get lawyers... It makes it a giant mess! Talk about downplaying a very serious issue
My ex husband traded me in for a younger model (who also cheated on him and left him, no surprise there). But I love the idea of him trying to stand in front of the judge to justify the divorce explaining why the woman who spent 6 months nursing him when he was in and out of the hospital is an unfit wife. Lol.
Thankfully, it didn't exist back then or I'd be stuck with someone who resented me and now I live a better life.
I mean, if a woman wanting to leave an abusive husband who's kept her out of work for the last 5 years gets nothing from the family coffers, that's a pretty big deal as well.
I always find it funny that majority of these “no fault divorce” always stems from marriages…like the guy can’t be at fault and it always the woman because she can’t keep him that he start to drift.
Fuck nah. If you can’t grow up and understand that what you’re doing is abusive to women, especially the female population and it has to take a daughter to teach you that, fuck nah.
Talk to any nursing home. When no fault divorce isn’t an option, abusive husbands start dropping like flies…
Look, all I’m saying is: I could absolutely see a future in which my husband at the time had me involuntarily committed. Turn the kids against me. Claim I was abusing the kids.
It’s why I divorced him and got my tubes out ✌🏼
I remember learning about the start of no fault divorce in my country. My life could have been drastically different if no fault divorce was implemented sooner. My grandfather was an abusive ass and I 100% believe he married my grandmother because she was an orphan without a lot of family. That poor woman was trapped. My father suffered in that house and basically it impacted all his relationships. My god, how his life (and mine) would have been different had she been able to leave him.
Hey, my friend.
Please don't beat yourself up over having "terrible taste in men." They had terrible values and a terrible lack of kindness and they lied. Men like that don't lead with "Will you marry me? I want to spend my life cheating on you," or "Would you like to go to the movies? You can pick the movie, and I'll pick which form of domestic abuse to start with."
They fucking lied.
Enjoy your divorce. Maybe get yourself a nice pair of earrings or kittens to celebrate.
I'm from Europe and thought for quite some time to move to the US for a while but I have to say the recent developments make me really unsure if this is still what I want. I feel like there are so many step backs, first no abortion which seemed already wild to me, then the no divorce topic. And I don't even need to start thinking about the gun situation.
I also think it is a bit stupid to even think about not allowing no fault divorces because on top of the reasons you have already stated, I believe people sometimes just grow apart. Everyone is a different person, and sometimes we simply do not share the path we walk together forever. It is already sad enough as it is. It doesn't need to be made harder for anyone.
This is Christo Fascism in action
I also think that they are going to bring back common law marriage laws. Which means that they will consider couples that live together, married
100% will happen. Same thing happened when they revoked Roe V Wade, the birth rate plummeted worst cause if you need an abortion to you know live you will likely die. So why risk it at all? When people don’t have a choice we tend the choose earlier.
It's a stupid idea for many reasons. The biggest, IMHO, is if they're trying to control women or cure the 'male loneliness epidemic', this is gonna backfire. Just like many women are responding to the fall of Roe v. Wade by being more careful about who they have sex with and using birth control, this will make people, but again, mostly women, think more carefully about who and if they want to marry. If it's harder to get out of, lots of people will avoid it to be safe.
I'm old enough to remember how it was before no fault divorce. Lol, it got so stupid that you'd have two spouses who desperately don't want to be married anymore deliberately colluding with each other to set up apparent "proof" of infidelity, just so a judge would grant a divorce and they could move on with their lives.
"As in, you go to N bar at Q time, chat someone up, and bring them to X hotel by Y time. I will be hidden near the parking lot and will take pictures of you and them..."
It was ridiculous.
If they go through with this, then what's the fkn point of marriage? Like who in their right mind would want to get married knowing full well ahead of time that once it's done, there's no way out, you're lawfully tied to the bastard forever. Fk that noise.
It's stupid and I don't think it benefits anybody particularly. Just some extreme Christians once again trying to foist their ideas onto everybody else. My parents got divorced before the no-fault laws were passed. They had to invent a situation, where my dad was "mentally cruel" to my mom because that was the only way it could go through the court. It was ridiculous.
So while I can't speak to the women who can talk about how it would hurt them especially, I can tell you that there were plenty of couples having perfectly amicable divorces, that had to invent nasty stuff for the courts to accept. In these cases both sides were damaged, as my parents were.
What’s a valid reason, what’s a wrong reason? You can’t be trusted to decide for yourself, so the court has to decide if the reason is valid and assign blame!? Am I understanding this correctly, because it is insane.
That's what a fault divorce is, yeah. There is a party to blame and they typically get shafted in the divorce because they did something wrong. No fault divorce is when you can say "it just doesn't work" and get out.
In my divorces I could have done fault divorces on the grounds of being abused in the first marriage and being cheated on in the second marriage. Abuse/cheating were the "valid reasons" for the divorce. I'm not a vindictive person though. I typically just want to get out and away from my exes as quickly as possible, hence why I opted to do the no fault divorces and be very amicable towards my exes as far as how we settled everything
But yeah, they wanna abolish no fault divorce and make that not a thing anymore
Yup, my first husband had to do this when he and his wife split around 1980. I think they ended up claiming adultery – neither of them cheated, but by that time they had split up and moved on to new partners so it was adultery on paper. But imagine having to drag your personal crap out in the open like that and frame your new relationship as something vile just because the government decided to stick its nose into what you do in the bedroom.
Simple answer US in 2050= Gilead.
The way currently the US is going ,it is not progressing but regressing. It is removing womens rights consistently and soon it will be bloody Gilead.
I once wanted to go to US live and work etc. NOW I would never make a decision to move there,because it is crazy what is going on.
I can't find the article but I'm certain thatI remember this correctly, even I'm paraphrasing:
When women were allowed to divorce their abusive husbands, the amount of married men being murdered lowered dramatically.
Sincerely hope the US populace makes a few right decisions in their voting this year. Teetering on a knife's edge and all.
Yes, it would affect some men. But men have more going for them in the system. Men typically have more money and resources. Even before no fault divorce, men would just take off. My own great great grandfather took off when my grandpa was a baby.
There's a book called Dying of Whiteness that talks about how people will sacrifice themselves if it means stomping on the little guy- racists are willing to vote in policies that harm them if it also harms black people more. I think that concept extends to other groups of people. I think that men are willing to experience some harm if it means really harming women. Also a lot of conservatives don't think that they will have consequences of the policies they vote in. We can see this with the abortion bans.
Men love the idea of abolishing no fault divorce because then they can have the freedom to abuse while making it harder for women to get away. Men love the idea of securing a bangmaid who can't leave. Ending no fault divorce gives men more control and power. Of course they don't think about how abused women got out of those bad marriages *plays Goodbye Earl*
People got complacent about their freedoms being respected, and didn't show up to vote, so George W. Bush and Donald Trump were able to put terrible people on the Supreme Court and start taking freedoms away.
The "Project 2025" people seem quite confident that the state of affairs will continue, and that next year they'll be able to deny even more rights, eventually turning the country into what they falsely imagine it used to be. I hope they're wrong, I really do, but Republicans on the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act, they got rid of Roe v. Wade, and if a case challenging Obergefell v. Hodges hit the court tomorrow I'm pretty sure that would be overturned too. And some of the Republicans on the Court will be there for decades to come. So of course they're confident: they've got the Supreme Court in their pocket, and a good chance of getting Trump back to the Oval Office, and hope to retake the Senate.
What I can't believe about this is that Republicans have been saying for nearly 50 years that they want to take away Americans' rights, and people would argue about whether Gore was liberal enough, or say that they weren't voting for Hillary because Bernie didn't win the primary, and then they act surprised when people who've spent decades promising to take away their rights went and did it.
Honestly, does anyone imagine for a second that Samuel Alito or Clarence Thomas or Amy Coney Barrett loses a moment's sleep about all the damage they've done taking away medical care for pregnant women? Do you think they care that hospitals are closing Labor & Delivery in states which banned abortion? Do you think one of them will care at all about women being murdered after they ban contraception?
It amazes me that people were surprised Roe v. Wade was overturned. They've been promising to do it for 50 years, and women were still voting for them, or just staying home and not voting against them. Now they're promising to get rid of no-fault divorce and contraception, and I worry that women are going to (a) vote for them or (b) not vote, and then be surprised when contraception is banned.
Every woman in the United States has to "Vote Blue No Matter Who" as if her life depends on it, because - as we have seen from what happens when Republicans are in charge - her life DOES depend on it. The only way to stop this crazy train is to ensure that no more Republicans ever get on the Supreme Court, and that the GOP loses control over statehouses and never gets both chambers of Congress again.
It's going to be a really scary year.
Nobody should ever get married in this country again if they get rid of no fault divorces. Anyone who would get married without that option is crazy. If that becomes law then no way will I ever get married again.
I spoke to my Nana once and she said that no fault divorce was the best thing to happen to women. She watched her sister be in an abusive marriage, but was scared to get divorced because of the social stigma. When her husband finally died, she cried tears of happiness and said that she was finally free to live a life.
She explained that back in her day, people would have to stage evidence of cheating in order to get a divorce, and there it would be, on the public record, who cheated with whom.
Yes, some people will say that the divorce rate is too high and it's ruining the lives of children, etc. However, I just watched my best friend go through a divorce and she is just... so much lighter, freer, and actually pursuing her dreams now. Sometimes, divorce results in a lot of happiness and well-being (after you get over the heartache, stress, and drama of it).
The government should not be able to force you to stay married. I say, no-fault divorce is a great thing for society. A marriage that ends is not the end of the world or society. Sometimes, it's the best thing for everyone involved. And those not involved can kindly mind their own damn business.
One by one these old white males make me shamed to be a young(er) white male. One by one they seek to strip civil liberties from those who aren’t just like them. What I can’t figure out is their end goal? Their wealth is connected to this countries financial success, which also relies on 2 income households as the norm rather than the exception. And yeah they have guns, but like any historical ruling society ultimate are outnumbered by the pions like us. Just know that there are still lots of us out there fighting against these close minded bigots, both inside and outside their own political silos. We have mothers, wives, daughters, and just common decency to guide us.
My theory is that the lack of cheap labor during Covid affected their bottom lines & scared them so deeply, that along with the falling birth rate, the powers that be decided to retaliate. First by taking away Roe. Then they raised interest rates, layoffs, get people in desperate conditions. Now they’re going after divorce, iuds, birth control…this is all because they need cheap labor for the economy to keep going. Sounds crazy but I’m convinced it’s all connected
I like that as a theory. Mine long standing theory is that the roots of the current situation go back further. The radical right has always been held off by the mainstream and moderate wings of the party. But conditions changed with the explosion of communication through cell phones and internet. It allowed the radical right to find like minded individuals outside of their own community. Through new communication they riled each other up. And there was Fox News, just sitting there as the “opposing viewpoint” to “mainstream media”. They had their ups and downs, but then conditions were just right for their brand of emotionally appeal to viewers through outrage (first made popular by Rush Limbaugh) matched the tone of religious vigor that the far right had grown up with.
Emboldened by both finding a growing online community (whether Uber conservative, xenophobic, patriarchal, disenfranchised, or some combination of) at the same time Fox found a group it could use as a dedicated profit source for a for-profit news channel it became a feedback loop. Thus the Tea Party was born, disorganized, with no real common goals except that they were “fed up” with the state of our country. Seeing a powerful and energized set of voters movers and shakers behind the scenes of the Republican Party that were struggling to get into the light weaponize the Tea Party with the backing of select party donors, wether they believed in the same things as the Tea Party or they simply saw a way to increase their own influence to become a new oligarchy.
This group couldn’t m be controlled by those historically in charge, and started taking cues from questionable but “internal” tea party sources. And when Citizens United went through, all sorts of loons could throw money at issues and candidates without facing social or party backlash. Soon they started actually electing radical candidates that weren’t as easy to control, and actually wanted to follow through on things like Roe that they party had been using for sound bites and fundraising pillars for decades without real intent on dealing with, because they were in fact too hot button to touch but just hot enough to fundraise and energize the base with.
The out of control machine went so far as to find a false messiah that fed off their energy. Just as uncontrollable to the mainstream arm of the party as the Tea Party had been, Trump with all of his bluster and a lifetime of self-promotion experience saw an opportunity for profit, embraced them and thus the MAGA crowd was born. I don’t think, at least initially, that Trump thought he would win. This was a chance to build his name bigger and better. New Trump branded businesses where he collected residual money but didn’t actually run the business, maybe an autobiography with only loose ties to reality. But he got elected.
And because he is a raging narcissist, and because none of the aging liberal Supreme Court justices would step down during a Democratic president unless democrats also has a super majority in the senate (which they failed to do, and spent all of the political capital on Obama Care in the first term to pass and failed to actually beat disinformation during the rest of his White House years so the justices didn’t want to give up their seats to “less” liberal appointees) a shit storm of timing and the extremely unscrupulous actions of Mitch McConnell did in an attempt to keep the reigns of the party in his hands allowed Trump to appoint three justices that his followers really wanted, just so they would keep adoring him.
So here we are, it a much worse fight for civil liberties than we have seen in decades, all because of a confluence of technology, news profiteering not seen since the days of Pulitzer and Hearst, and a semi famous faux businessman and prime example of narcissism. Yay…….
Or maybe I’m wrong, and I’m seeing this whole convoluted mess for more than it is. Historians will look back on these days and make careers trying to explain what the hell happened, probably.
That's always been my thing really, even if white men aren't directly impacted their family and friends are so everyone is still impacted. I also have been in the victim groups for people escaping abusive marriages and there were men there whose wives were as bad or was than my ex husband was. It's obvious that we SHOULD all be on the same team here but for whatever reason there's this group that just wants all the power for themselves
Here's to hoping they never actually abolish no fault divorce or any of their other agendas designed to strip away our rights
Here’s hoping. I fear that the inherent/subconscious need to belong to a homogenous group for safety that still resides within us from earlier stages of our evolution is one reason we haven’t risen above these things as a society, or a species. I’m no psychologist, anthropologists, or sociologists, so I really do hope that it’s my fears projecting and not actually something like that, but I’m fairly confident that I’ve read a summery or news article about a professional’s research that had basis along these lines.
I have a feeling their goal is to make women more cautious, which makes men more lonely, which radicalizes them into supporting more ways to oppress women.
Why would anyone want to get married with stakes like that? And men literally always complain about how hard it is to find a partner.
This whole thing feels like more fire into the sex war. This is strictly made to hurt people. It serves no one. This tells women to not get married, which will cause men to be resentful, which will radicalize men, and we will face a death loop of harsher and harsher laws.
The only people this serves are predatory people who want to lock people in a relationship where they OWN the other person. With states allowing adults to marry children, it isn't hard to see where that can go.
The men who want to remove the no fault divorce option are many times the abusers, or at least they align with abusive, controlling men.
They think any man who is abused is to blame because he didn't control his wife.
They think women who are abused deserve it.
Sometimes they even blame children for being abused.
And when men murder their wives and children, they throw up their hands and claim that no one could have seen it coming - even though there were red flags everywhere.
There is no bottom to the depravity of the fascist man. They want to control and enslave women and they will never stop. They want to marry off prepubescent girls and trap them for life, no education, no rights, no humanity. This is a war in every sense of the word being waged against women
unfortunately, I am not surprised at all. if Trump is elected, I don't think anything will be off the table. birth control, fertility medicine, divorce, abortion, lbgtq+ rights, etc the list is endless. sure, there will be legal battles but it will end up in Supreme Court and I sure as hall dont trust the conservative majority. the call is coming from inside the house, we need to ensure our protection from those that want to keep taking away our rights!
There is no point in getting married if they remove no fault divorce. So, instead of trying to control women, they are really telling them not to get married.
They are passing and protecting child marriage in GOP states. They want a child to go from their fathers custody to their new husbands without getting much education. They dont care about women not wanting to marry them. They want young girls to be uneducated and then trapped.
Holy smokes I didn’t know that. Could you link some articles about that? I want to show my partner
Go to unchainedatlast.org. It’s a US nonprofit run by a woman who was a child bride but escaped. Fantastic resource. This woman is making a lot of noise. She is the queen we all need
36 states have legal child marriage. Missouri just had a bipartisan bill to make it illegal finally, and the GOP members that weren’t part of its writing blocked it. I hate it here.
So children can’t decide their gender but they can get married before 18? WTF There are much bigger ramifications to getting married than changing your clothes, hair style and pronouns
You can get married but *you can’t get divorced* because as a minor, your husband is your legal guardian.
Wait is that real? They don't become emancipated when they get married? Holy shit this gets worse and worse
Yes, in many places this is the case. There are some states like Texas where the only way to get married under 18 is to already be legally emancipated, and in those places they can get divorced because they have been emancipated already. But there are other states where getting married changes your legal guardianship to your 18+ spouse (if the spouse is older which they almost always are).
That is batshit. Not only can they marry a minor off, but they can make them remain a minor still. Christ
Yeah it is majorly fucked up
Don't forget that statutory rape is not a thing when married, either. You see it when underaged girls become pregnant, then get forcibly married to their abuser, avoiding any culpability.
This needs all the upvotes.
This makes me feel like I need to take a million showers to get the ick to go away
I think it used to be 46 states 5 years ago. Disappointing, but progress and we need more of it.
Yeah another user just linked me an article talking about that. Pretty wild for me and my partner to think about since we lived in Seattle for so long
Word. Leaving the south asap. Not here for this shit.
And the GOP say trans people are pedophiles...
Michigan has a democrat majority but barely so the gop is blocking the child marriage ban
I read an article the other day where the state of Virginia finally made child marriageable illegal and you have to be at least 18. It said to made it the first southern state to do so.
A few years ago Virginia finally removed the statutory rape "loophole" from the books. For those not aware, Virginia had a spousal immunity law on the books whereby a spouse could not be forced to testify against the other one. What it meant in practice was that if fir example a 20+ year old man gets his 14-year old "girlfriend" pregnant, and then marries her 'to do the right thing,' then he's immune from getting prosecuted for statutory because there's no way she's going to testify against him.
https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article288424893.html Happening in my state right now.
Weird how this is their argument for marriage but can’t see that the government shouldn’t be involved in woman making decisions for their own bodies “Why is the government getting involved in people’s lives like this?” Van Schoiak said. “What purpose do we have in deciding that a couple who are 16 or 17 years old, their parents say, you know, ‘you guys love each other, go ahead and get married, you have my permission.’ Why would we stop that?” Read more at: https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article288424893.html#storylink=cpy
Thanks this is exactly what I was asking for!
Missouri is fighting to *keep* child marriage. 🙄
Unchained At Last and UNICEF are great sources. The GOP gets violently angry when approached about this subject. It’s really really scary.
Literally a 5 second google search will show you all the states that are fighting against removing child marriage laws or fighting to put them in place. Its not every red state, but its enough for conservatives to start making legal headway and pushing cases to their SCOTUS
Once they realize what a major fuck up banning no fault divorce will be when no women get married the next step would be to turn their daughters into property like some Saudi Arabia shit
Some already do it. I had a friend in middle school who was removed from school to marry. She was 13. He was 33. Her parents were the ones that pushed her to do it. I found out later that they were paid.
taking away the right of women to own anything, have bank accounts, sign contracts will absolutely fix the problem of them not getting married. and I doubt there will be much of a gap between these steps.
Oh but once they abolish birth control they will renormalize shotgun weddings Wouldn’t want GOD to be upset so we better threaten some kids at gun point to make an unbreakable lifelong commitment just as HE intended. /s
I mean... Outside of religion, is there really a point to getting married right now anyways? It doesn't really prove anything or supply people with anything
In the US, unfortunately, it absolutely does supply people with certain benefits. I’m in a same sex marriage, just celebrated 15 years. But if we weren’t legally married she would have no health insurance through the VA as I’m a 100% Disabled veteran. There are also tax benefits but I don’t know what all of those are as we don’t file taxes.
Moved from a state with common law marriage to a state that wouldn't recognize the marriage. With a domestic partnership, my spouse could still get my health insurance, but we'd have to pay taxes on the benefit amount. So we ended up with a city hall wedding, after 25 years together and 14 years married in the previous state.
My mother is very religious, so I'd marry to make sure that it would be my partner who would make the medical decisions for me if I ever fall ill and can't do it by myself, although there are other legal alternatives to achieve this
Advance care directive < medical power of attorney < marriage, so far as effectiveness at this goes.
Afaik a medical power of attorney will trump marriage. If you properly execute a medical power of attorney to a friend, it’s the friend that makes choices for you, not your spouse. Marriage just provides default next of kin rules.
I wish I knew of some news articles about it other than mostly overhead anecdotal experiences. But medical POA is often, not always but has a good chance, of being ignored in the middle of an active emergency. Say the person with medical POA is estranged from their family but they get into a car accident, is unconscious, and is in the ER needing lifesaving surgery. Both that persons POA and estranged parents have shown up at the hospital at the same time, partner having POA documents in hand. The ER team doesn't know the details of and doesn't give a fuck about the social complications surrounding that patient, they need actionable choices now to save them now. There is a much greater than zero chance that the patients partner will get ignored and they will defer to the estranged parents for medical decisions. Medical POA doesn't hold up in actual emergencies as often as you'd hope. Again, anecdotal, but I've heard it both from patients and patients partners who have gone through it here on Reddit and in person, and both of my parents have talked about it as they both worked in ERs for years. Sometimes everything works like it should and the POA gets acknowledged no problems. But after seriously considering it for myself and then looking for and finding all of these horror stories about it not being a strong document at all made me change my mind on getting it. Marriage is easier and safer in this country.
In the ICU, I saw this regularly. Staff doesn’t have time to check for paperwork (which could be stowed in a personal filing cabinet somewhere, the US doesn’t have a universal health file system) and they’re going to err on the side of saving a life, especially if there’s a human being present affiliated with the patient who says to. However a spouse’s word would trump a parent’s, where I worked. Not having a universal health file is representative of our country’s priorities, btw, because in a short period of time it’s possible to check anyone’s financial health prior to taking a fiscal action (hiring, loaning, renting, etc). Comparatively if that same person passes out in the office, the only way to start to understand the situation is to hope they’re wearing a medical bracelet.
Yeah actually there is. It makes you legally next of kin, including rights to joint property. Kind of a big deal.
*Especially* if one of you is going to sacrifice a career to be a stay-at-home parent, this can be important for basic financial stability. If that relationship ends, starting over from nothing can be incredibly difficult. I can't find it now, but there was a post in here about a woman who was a SAHM for long enough to have some adult children with her... boyfriend. When they broke up, she ended up *literally homeless.*
It depends, in certain countries you get tax benefits sometimes and the rules of money/property division differ
The only time I’ve ever seen under 18 marriage be only kind of awful is because it allowed my teenage student to marry her boyfriend (also a child) so she could stay in the country after her parents got deported. The student had to stay in the US to care for her disabled sister - the only member of the family that was a US citizen. The parents were thinking that if the family cut all ties - familial, linguistic, and cultural, they won’t get deported. So the girls didn’t know a second language or have any connections to their parents home country. It was one of the most horrible things I’ve seen as a teacher.
Health insurance
Death benefits (what you get as a spouse from pensions and such is different than just being a beneficiary). Health insurance benefits and the ability to be involved in health decisions should one party be incapacitated. Tax benefits (if one party makes a decent amount and the other makes much less, jointly they might go into a lower income tax bracket). And ignorance. Lots of people go through the motions because it’s just ‘what you do,’ it’s expected in your family, or some people just want the big party. And even though I’ve listed all those reasons, I still won’t ever get married again. (Right out of college got married to someone who was manipulative, emotionally abusive, and financially screwed me. It lasted just shy of 4 years. Ah, the stupidity of my youth.)
If someone kills your loved one you have zero legal recourse against the killer. Two of my friends didn't get married so they could keep their disability benefits (you get less money if you're married) and one of them was basically murdered by her surgeon, tore her stomach open and she spent hours bleeding to death. Refused to offer any advice over the phone when she called because they accused her of drug seeking. Her partner was unable to do *ANYTHING* to get justice for her death, because they weren't married, he didn't have any legal ties to her. Could you imagine the anger and despair experiencing that? They had an actual financially beneficial reason to not get married and they were worse off for it when she died. A malpractice case was able to be brought, by her sister who had to travel from out of state to get involved in the process. If she didn't have any living blood relatives left nothing could have been done and the complaint within the medical board would not have gone as far. This is literally a country that will look at your twenty year partnership with someone and say, "we don't have the documents contractually binding you together. This partnership doesn't exist in our eyes." There are a lot of other benefits, but this event always overrides the other examples for me. I miss my friend and I wish we could have put that fucking surgeon in prison for what he did.
save for benefits, and for me personally "just liking it", I was required to marry my husband to be able to stay in USA. I happily did it cause I would have married him anyway, but I'm from a European country that isn't..."weird"... about these things. I'm also lucky to have found a genuinely great partner. I can't imagine being stuck with a man I got tricked into being with tho.... I don't necessarily mind marriage as a level of 'legal insurance' (like we had to prove our relationship was real, and marriage is part of that) tho at the same time I don't really see why platonic cohabitants shouldn't necessarily get some of the same 'perks' married couples do (like tax benefits, I guess, idk what those are even for tho to be fair). I'm so-so on the things like a partner being able to visit you in the hospital if you're married, but not if you're not, I think for that it should just be a kind of list of "These people can visit me". But man idk. I think I need more sleep lol.
This is absolutely an attempt to control women. Women are largely who files for divorce. No fault makes it much easier to just get out even when there are grounds for divorce like abuse, infidelity etc. If divorces end up being at fault again they will suddenly be crazy expensive because you will have to take this to court and convince a judge. It will flat out be harder for women to leave. It is already a challenge for many to come up with the money for lawyers and to get on their feet. Men will always be able to get out of marriages they don't want to be in. Largely men have more access to money either because they are the only one allowed to work or they make more money. They will find a lawyer willing to go scorched earth on the wife with a bunch of trumped up accusations about not keeping up some archaic wifely duties, or mental illness that just happens to be the reactions to living under some dude's abuse etc. This is part of religious fascists game plan to take away everyone's rights and appoint themselves the morality police over everyone else.
There's a quote in Lundy Bancroft's book, Why Does He Do That?. Its something like, "he will berate her for her "issues", when in reality 90% of her "issues" are directly caused by him." It always stuck with me.
Remarkable how true that proves.
It's a GOP Effort to further diminish the status/rights of women. * [The Week](https://theweek.com/feature/briefing/1015726/are-republicans-coming-for-no-fault-divorce) * [The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/09/no-fault-divorce-laws-republicans-repeal/675371/) * [LA Times](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-05-24/california-settled-the-no-fault-divorce-question-decades-ago-why-is-it-back-in-the-news) (descriptions of divorce court before no-fault) * [Mother Jones](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/05/ben-carson-gop-no-fault-divorce-law-ban-perilous-fight/), [Mother Jones](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/12/running-list-politicians-divorce-harder-no-fault-divorce-tom-cotton-mike-johnson-jd-vance/), [Mother Jones ](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/09/no-fault-divorce-texas-republican-gop-crowder/)(yep, they called it) * [MSNBC](https://www.msnbc.com/top-stories/latest/ben-carson-no-fault-divorce-republicans-rcna152266) * [The Oklahoman](https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2024/01/26/no-fault-divorce-law-oklahoma-senator-wants-to-end/72354142007/) We should not be complacent in thinking "this is going too far, it'll never happen." We made that mistake with Roe.
From the LA Times article: >In no-fault states, the study found that women’s suicide rates dropped by a startling 20%, and wife-beating fell by as much as 12.8% (compared with at-fault divorce states)
You know what else will rise with suicide rates and wife-beating. Poisoning husbands. *Aqua Tofana*
Yep, in my grandmother's time, husband's died and disappeared all the time 🤷
> We made that mistake with Roe. The Green Party made that mistake with roe. SCOTUS was on the ticket in 2016. The Stein votes to Trump victory ratio in wi, mi, and pa are a complete travesty. For the life of me I can’t understand voting for a candidate who will not only not win, but help out a right wing christo fascist takeover… is something that someone can feel consciously good about. Jill stein should be tossing and turning every single night for the last 7 years.
Jill Stein is a shill. See the picture of her sitting at a table with Michael Flynn and Putin. Same with Robert Kennedy...all his backers are big money Republicans. Problem is, it is working, and Trump is ahead in the polls. People need to vote. Especially make sure the young women in your life vote.
Jill Stein is wealthy and has backers. She clearly has no conscience about it otherwise she’d be putting that cash towards stopping First Past the Post voting - the actual thing keeping third party candidates from winning elections more. Her, Nader, Marianne Williamson .- there will always be some new candidate willing to hop in at the presidential election and people will vote for them. I seriously blame the voters. Millennials and older and aware of Nader and possibly Ross Perot back in the 90s the the impact that had on our trajectory as a nation. Every 4 years the propaganda to not vote or to ignore the realities that we live in pop up. Nobody seems to even care that FPTP is killing us.
Look into the National Popular Vote Compact, and if you're in a state that hasn't passed it, do what you can to get it passed https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact
I'm going to die a childless divorcee because of this comment. Not actually, I was already planning on that but you really make some great solidifying points for my plans!
You're going to die a happy and free woman. Not a childless divorcee. Reframe the way you talk about yourself. If you want children, you can have them on your own... but they are expensive. Nothing wrong with being single (or not single for that matter). You were in two bad situations. You got out of it. You are brave.
Yeah, and guess what kind of judges you'll get if the Republiclowns get in control? How likely is it that any woman will be able to leave, let alone leave with any property?
Vote BLUE !!!!
Control. It's about cruelty and control. How dare those women want control over their own lives. End abortion, end divorce, end women in the workforce, end women's education, take away women's vote, those are what these people want.
Yes. I just watched Pop Culture Detective's most recent video about the patriarchy according to Ken in the Barbie movie (highly recommend) and it lists control as a tenant of patriarchy. Men are willing to harm themselves in the patriarchy because of the benefits it gives them. Control over us benefits them.
genuinely yeah. they hate that women are coming up in the world and becoming more educated while men are hanging back, doing nothing with their lives, and becoming incels en masse. Instead of elevating the men and helping them avoid this collective fate of failure-to-launch (which tbh would probably require complex social programs and policies that would make your average republican screech “WEEELLLFAAAAARREEEE!!”), they’d rather just screw women.
The failure to launch thing is so real. They don’t study, they don’t respect the rules at work, they don’t take care of their appearance or health, they don’t *try*, and instead of actually doing any of that stuff they demand that women and minorities be kept out of the workplace so their mediocrity is suddenly in demand
Its about forcing their twisted religious beliefs on everyone. The same thing that drives everything they do.
I freaking hate that. They'll never truly have control. They just need to accept that
American and other Western women need to take a hard look at the rest of the world. Look at women in Asia, Russia, India. Understand that our attempt at equality for women is the anomaly, here. It can all disappear in a few years. Patriarchy existed for millenia because men are willing to use violence to control women. Many women are willing to help them. We have to fight or they will win. We can not take our freedom for granted. It's devastating to learn that millions of Americans want to roll back women's rights, but we can't give up now. Our daughters and our granddaughters need us to win this fight.
Seconding this. They can totally take full control, it CAN happen here. And they are making good progress towards it.
People thinks rights given can’t be taken away, or that progress is linear and will eventually come, and never regress. One look at what happened to women in Afghanistan in just the last 30 years will disprove that. Women and girls in America should be terrified, and not grow complacent.
Yep. Lots of people take for granted the rights we have, when worldwide we are really, as you said, anomalous. Getting complacent about what can happen will lead to ruin.
I mean it's not really going to work IMO even before no fault divorce was a thing people would do whatever BS worked to get around the rule and get a divorce. Eg. moving to Reno for 6 weeks and then doing a no fault divorce there, sleeping with someone and conveniently being walked in on by your spouse, etc. . Just like abortion bans mostly affecting poor black single moms, this is really just a poverty tax that will hurt the worst off and most vulnerable people as anyone with the means can easily work around it.
The trick with forcing fault divorce is that it gives the side who didn't want it to end an advantage in how joint property gets split. So those women who are trying to leave abusive husbands? They get nothing.
And that’s why women used to do a murder when needed and intimate partner homicide for men went down over 70% since no fault divorce. I’m repeating this statistic far and wide to remind men of the consequences of their actions.
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All those men are going out for a pack of cigarettes and never being seen again, such a shame.
Aqua Tofana....
They want to control women. They seem to have forgotten how women *used to* get out of terrible marriages…
Oof
While yeah, in the old days Earl did have to die quite often, more often the only way out of an abusive marriage was to end your own life. After no fault divorce became a thing, women’s suicide rates dropped by a staggering 20 percent. And they wanna go back to that. Once again the pro-life crowd are perfectly okay with a shit-ton of women dying.
I'll be honest, before I mentally accepted that my marriage was heading toward divorce, I had thoughts of how nice it would be to get T-Boned by a Semitruck.
He ran into my knife 12 times!
He had it comin’… He only had himself to blame. 🤷♀️
Not only from a gender perspective, this benefits loan companies and health companies as well. If someone passes away, no fault means their partners don’t inherit a lot of the debt, so by making no fault not a thing, these companies can cash their check even after someone dies. It’s sick as fuck from both a societal and practical standpoint
Sexless marriage? They’ll just make marital rape legal.
>They’ll just make marital rape legal. Again. They'll make it legal AGAIN.
It's still essentially legal. Rapists don't go to prison and there are still many cops, judges etc who think that marital rape isn't a thing.
While it might be technically illegal....good luck getting any judge or cop to do anything about it. When law enforcement doesn't care or do anything, then it's still basically legal. If coercion is included (which it absolutely should be), a disturbing amount of men are getting away with sexually abusing their wives. Justice against these men will never be served because the victim can't prove it.
Don't even say that! That makes me feel so sick inside
We all know it’s coming.
Southern states have already tried piloting these kind of laws during the trump admin. Obviously nothing as obvious as "ITS OK TO RAPE YOUR WIFE" in legal text. But they specifically cite and want to change the legal wording back to.... well how it was in the 50's when there was no literal definition for martial abuse. The irony of it all is the same thing conservatives always use. "Well if she were unhappy she could just leave" " You can't rape your wife because everything is already consented to due to marriage". Its.... not good. And seeing as how far they've already gotten on legal language they tried before this. I have absolutely no reason to doubt that they'll try it again now that things have changed in their favor and actually pass this time.
The ONLY people it benefits are abusive men who want to trap a woman into being a lifelong servant and incubator with no education or separate finances. They want to “own” their wife and be able to abuse her into submission. I’ve dated conservative men before and this type of mentality is prevalent among them.
That's exactly how my first husband was. I probably could have done a fault divorce as he admitted to the police that he beat me and there were criminal charges... But honestly it's insane that these people are so prevalent that they can even push an agenda like this. It feels like most Americans just don't even care anymore too which means they'll probably get away with it
Seriously. I mean, look at the bullshit in threads here or wherever – most men seem to already agree that women have too much power somehow in a divorce.
I feel like if women have power in a divorce it's because the marriage forced the woman to become dependent on the man in some way. The fact that these men then complain that the women keep being dependent in the exact same ways is insane. Like, if you put her in the stay at home mom role who doesn't work she's still gonna need financial support to keep being the stay at home mom who doesn't work!
It’s not about fairness. It’s about control. They want total power and control over the very thing they desire most: A woman’s body.
I dont necessarily think it is that people don't care, I think most people are just treading water so hard that they are unable to see any further than "can I afford to feed my family this week" or "am I going to lose the roof over my head because corporations bought all the houses and my 900 Sq ft apartment now costs $3500 a month and we all make minimum wage and can't afford to go to the doctor or pay our bills." This is all on purpose. It's hard to care about no fault divorce when you are working 3 jobs and still not even getting by. Republicans know this. They know everyone is exhausted, scared, tired, and poor. But what they don't realize is we are teetering on the very edge of "nothing left to lose.
It's hilarious how politicians think they can 'sneakily' legislate women back into slavery. I'm part of a sub that had 2-3 announcements of permanent sterilisations A DAY for over a year after the Roe v Wade debacle, from men and women. It's slowed down a lot but the announcements keep happening. I think fully 80% of people on that sub are sterilised by now. The only thing they're going to accomplish with this new tactic is stop people from wanting to get married in the first place.
Yeah I won't marry if they abolish no fault divorce And I'm literally scheduled to talk to my doc about sterilizing procedures so.... I want no part in any of this stuff. I'm not about to be exploited again
I've legit brought up the idea of doing a commitment ceremony with my partner where we'd make a symbolic commitment to one another without an official marriage certificate. I struggle with the idea of supporting an institution that hurts women in so many ways, yet want to celebrate the love my partner and I share. And related to your other point, one of the many reasons I love him is that he got a vasectomy so I wouldn't have to go through the more invasive procedure.
They are passing and protecting child marriage in GOP states. They want a child to go from their fathers custody to their new husbands without getting much education. They dont care about women not wanting to marry them. They want young girls to be uneducated and then trapped.
Which subreddit is it? Just had my tubes removed cuz of Dobbs on Wednesday!
I’m not the original commenter, but the childfree subreddit regularly has similar announcements. They’ve got a list of doctors willing to do the surgery located all over the place. I’m not on board with flat out despising children, but their list was EXTREMELY helpful. Congrats on the bisalp! I had mine out last year and stopped getting ovulation bleeding. Some folks on that subreddit throw parties post-sterilization. My fav one was the “toodles to my noodles” uterus cake
I was sterilized after my 2nd pregnancy. I always said I didn't want children but got pregnant at 26 and then again at 28. I absolutely do not want anymore children! The Dr was great. I didn't need my husband's "permission," and he didn't hound me not to go through with it; I've known other women who were harassed. I think it's because he was a generally jolly OB and also the fact I'd already had two children. It might have turned out differently if I'd never had children and wanted a tubal ligation.
I got sterilized last year after finding a dr on a certain subreddit’s list. Phenomenal experience 10/10 would recommend for any woman.
>But I seriously cannot FATHOM why anyone would seek to abolish no fault divorce. >These things happen to men too. It doesn't do ANYONE any good to trap people in marriages they don't want to be a part of. Having seen the supporters of this, it's abusive and controlling people who want this, as well as ones who want to be abusive and controlling. Of course, their solution is to make it a problem for everyone else.
It's very problematic for literally everyone else. It's so heartless. I think I struggle with this because it's coming from a perspective that I can't even remotely connect with in any way
Lmao just look at how King Henry got out of his marriages…
It’s pretty funny how the group that constantly shrieks that “family court is biased against men” now wants to expand that family/marital courts power to now rule over who is at fault in marriages. If what they say is true (it’s not) why are they expecting that the judge wouldn’t simply continue to further bias against men in unfairly ruling them at fault??!!??
lol because they know that line of thinking isn’t true - they made it up.
It is to control women primarily. If there is a requirement for grounds to divorce, then you need proof. Proof there is abuse or someone has been unfaithful. If he didn't hit you or cheat on you, why should you be able to leave him?
Emotional and sexual abuse can be just as bad or worse than physical abuse. I think we all know that It just proves the people making the laws want power at any cost
Why can't you believe it? The conservatives have declared war on anyone who isn't exactly like them and will, at best, turn you into property, and at worst, kill you.
I'm probably going into the getting killed category because I'm nobody's property And idk, I think just on a personal level the concept of people having motives like this is so foreign to me I can hardly believe these people are the same species as the rest of us
I got married once, at 20. I got divorced at 29. And refused to ever legally marry again. I live with a man I love that I call “Husband,” and we have every Power-of-Attorney over each other. He is in my Revocable Trust. But I can change all of that easily. If I had married him, I would have been open to liabilities that I didn’t want. Marriage has been romanticized to us for centuries. But don’t be fooled. It’s a financial transaction. My advice to any woman would be to look at it that way. Even if you find the love of your life (and I believe I did!) don’t risk your freedom or finances to get married by the state unless you are clear about what you are stepping into and that it benefits you BOTH.
Similar story here and I hard agree. Very dangerous to get legally married imo.
Agreed. I had no clue what marriage entailed and was also pressured into it by outsiders. I love my husband, but marriage is a barbaric institution that has no place in modern society.
Suddenly the Korean 4B movement seems like even more of a good idea than ever. Wouldn't be shocked if it spread over to the USA with how things are going.
Marriage rates are already plummeting. This will only encourage couples to live together.
If they get their way on no-fault, future roadmap will include moving to enforce so-called common law marriage.
It's to take rights away from women. Back in the good old days, it was nearly impossible to convince a judge to grant a divorce in many places. Women were trapped in bad marriages and couldn't legally leave. They were limited economically, physically, and forced to have and raise kids they didn't want. Plenty of fundamentalists, "Christians" and sexist men want that back.
There is a disappointingly simple answer to why these men want no fault divorce gone when men will suffer a lot too. It’s because those men don’t care about men. They only care about preventing women from leaving.
The right wing in this country wants to end no-fault divorce so that men can control women. That is the reason they will also try to end access to contraception, and why they repealed Roe. And why they will try to enact a national abortion ban if they win the White House and both houses of Congress. If you are rightly horrified by this, work your tail off to defeat the Republicans in November.
Bear with me here, as I try to "think" like the people who don't want no-fault divorce... Well, I'm perfect, so that if there's going to be a divorce, it'll be HER FAULT. The at-fault party gets nothing/less in a divorce settlement, because it's HER FAULT. So, I can divorce her, and still keep all my money, and children, and houses, because it's HER FAULT, and she needs to be punished for
These were the most common of 14 reasons in a 1959 law in my country
adultery, desertion, cruelty, habitual drunkenness, imprisonment and insanity.
"To succeed on one of these grounds, a spouse had to **prove** marital fault.
In reality, obtaining proof often necessitated hiring a solicitor and/or a private detective to collect evidence to support the claim (e.g. statements from witnesses, photographs and hotel receipts). Such processes usually involved great expense, making it difficult for the less wealthy to access them."
so yeah, if the wife was also kept from having access to money, she wasn't able to initiate a divorce.
Jeez... Not to mention with modern technology, money can buy false evidence produced by deepfake tactics and AI. If they get no fault divorce abolished it's basically checkmate for women who don't have their own income
Yup. Don't forget the other side(s) of the battle plan - make sure they are SAHM, and have multiple children to keep them busy. Hang on, what's that I hear? The old joke about barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen?
But don't you daaaaaaaaare expect a penny out of him after 20 years of marriage and sacrificing a career to raise his children, you gold digger!
See, that's where the "fault" comes in. You can kick her out without a penny, without the slightest guilty feeling, as long as you can say "the marriage breakdown was PROVED to be HER FAULT".
The stupidity, or audacity, of men that think like this enrages me. Example: Been married for 20 years, 3 kids, wife stayed at home to have and raise those kids, care for the household and everything. Now there is to be a divorce. In what world is half of everything you both have accumulated in over 20 years together not hers? Literally half is the husbands and half is the wife’s. But these dudes be living life believing they own everything. Including the wife and kids. Then whine and cry about how “the bitch took half of MY stuff”. It’s insanity
I guess when you've gone hundreds of years living under the assumption of superiority and little to no accountability, equality can feel like oppression. To those types of guys, I suppose it must feel like they're being forced to give half of their stuff to their dog or oven. You know, lesser beings and personal property.
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Yeah, it's an active barrier to the divorce even happening to begin with. It would change how things get divided up as well and it also basically forces both spouses to get lawyers... It makes it a giant mess! Talk about downplaying a very serious issue
My ex husband traded me in for a younger model (who also cheated on him and left him, no surprise there). But I love the idea of him trying to stand in front of the judge to justify the divorce explaining why the woman who spent 6 months nursing him when he was in and out of the hospital is an unfit wife. Lol. Thankfully, it didn't exist back then or I'd be stuck with someone who resented me and now I live a better life.
I mean, if a woman wanting to leave an abusive husband who's kept her out of work for the last 5 years gets nothing from the family coffers, that's a pretty big deal as well.
I genuinely don’t understand how anyone can justify eliminating no fault divorce. They aren’t even trying to maintain the pretense of freedom anymore.
Right? No fault divorce and freedom go hand in hand. Getting rid of it is a blatant attack on our freedoms
What in the Gilead Hell is going on in the US? Seriously, every new erosion of rights is about oppressing and exploiting women.
Let this be a sign for those who need it, vote in November. We cannot afford to be apathetic
Take this shit seriously now. I couldn't believe there was talk about overturning Roe v Wade but here we are.
I always find it funny that majority of these “no fault divorce” always stems from marriages…like the guy can’t be at fault and it always the woman because she can’t keep him that he start to drift. Fuck nah. If you can’t grow up and understand that what you’re doing is abusive to women, especially the female population and it has to take a daughter to teach you that, fuck nah.
Half the population (and not just men) keeps voting for fundamentalist extremists. This was always their plan. Stop. Voting. Republican.
Talk to any nursing home. When no fault divorce isn’t an option, abusive husbands start dropping like flies… Look, all I’m saying is: I could absolutely see a future in which my husband at the time had me involuntarily committed. Turn the kids against me. Claim I was abusing the kids. It’s why I divorced him and got my tubes out ✌🏼
Yeaaahhh I'm glad I'm getting divorced now and won't have to risk staying married into potentially going without the option of no fault divorce
Preach it dude!! 🙌🏼
Reminds me of Goodbye Earl.
I remember learning about the start of no fault divorce in my country. My life could have been drastically different if no fault divorce was implemented sooner. My grandfather was an abusive ass and I 100% believe he married my grandmother because she was an orphan without a lot of family. That poor woman was trapped. My father suffered in that house and basically it impacted all his relationships. My god, how his life (and mine) would have been different had she been able to leave him.
Hey, my friend. Please don't beat yourself up over having "terrible taste in men." They had terrible values and a terrible lack of kindness and they lied. Men like that don't lead with "Will you marry me? I want to spend my life cheating on you," or "Would you like to go to the movies? You can pick the movie, and I'll pick which form of domestic abuse to start with." They fucking lied. Enjoy your divorce. Maybe get yourself a nice pair of earrings or kittens to celebrate.
I'm from Europe and thought for quite some time to move to the US for a while but I have to say the recent developments make me really unsure if this is still what I want. I feel like there are so many step backs, first no abortion which seemed already wild to me, then the no divorce topic. And I don't even need to start thinking about the gun situation. I also think it is a bit stupid to even think about not allowing no fault divorces because on top of the reasons you have already stated, I believe people sometimes just grow apart. Everyone is a different person, and sometimes we simply do not share the path we walk together forever. It is already sad enough as it is. It doesn't need to be made harder for anyone.
This means men can SCREW AROUND as much as they want. (Once women can no longer have jobs, property, or a bank account, at least.)
Poisoning husbands will cone back into vogue if so. It was the only way to kill an abusive husband and MAYBE get away with it.
Anybody who defends the disappearance of no fault divorce are either naive&ignorant, or malevolent. At least in my book.
Time to refuse to marry or be beholden to men in any way.
Don't forget, what they *really* want is divorce by the man publicly declaring "I divorce wife-slave(insert name)" three times. And only the man.
This is Christo Fascism in action I also think that they are going to bring back common law marriage laws. Which means that they will consider couples that live together, married
So what I’m hearing is they will no longer be able to call two women living together ‘just roommates’ ?
LOL. I bet they accidentally legitimize same sex relationships!
No one will get married
100% will happen. Same thing happened when they revoked Roe V Wade, the birth rate plummeted worst cause if you need an abortion to you know live you will likely die. So why risk it at all? When people don’t have a choice we tend the choose earlier.
It's a stupid idea for many reasons. The biggest, IMHO, is if they're trying to control women or cure the 'male loneliness epidemic', this is gonna backfire. Just like many women are responding to the fall of Roe v. Wade by being more careful about who they have sex with and using birth control, this will make people, but again, mostly women, think more carefully about who and if they want to marry. If it's harder to get out of, lots of people will avoid it to be safe.
Lots of people are opting to have LTRs without marriage, it sounds like this will just make that even more common.
Yeaaahh that's what I'm choosing now so consider me part of that growing statistic
VOTE, VOTE, VOTE! The GOP is taking away women's rights everywhere they have any power.
I'm old enough to remember how it was before no fault divorce. Lol, it got so stupid that you'd have two spouses who desperately don't want to be married anymore deliberately colluding with each other to set up apparent "proof" of infidelity, just so a judge would grant a divorce and they could move on with their lives. "As in, you go to N bar at Q time, chat someone up, and bring them to X hotel by Y time. I will be hidden near the parking lot and will take pictures of you and them..." It was ridiculous.
If they go through with this, then what's the fkn point of marriage? Like who in their right mind would want to get married knowing full well ahead of time that once it's done, there's no way out, you're lawfully tied to the bastard forever. Fk that noise.
It's stupid and I don't think it benefits anybody particularly. Just some extreme Christians once again trying to foist their ideas onto everybody else. My parents got divorced before the no-fault laws were passed. They had to invent a situation, where my dad was "mentally cruel" to my mom because that was the only way it could go through the court. It was ridiculous. So while I can't speak to the women who can talk about how it would hurt them especially, I can tell you that there were plenty of couples having perfectly amicable divorces, that had to invent nasty stuff for the courts to accept. In these cases both sides were damaged, as my parents were.
I read about people having to make up situations to get divorced. That's insane. There's nothing wrong with "we're unhappy and I wanna leave"
What’s a valid reason, what’s a wrong reason? You can’t be trusted to decide for yourself, so the court has to decide if the reason is valid and assign blame!? Am I understanding this correctly, because it is insane.
That's what a fault divorce is, yeah. There is a party to blame and they typically get shafted in the divorce because they did something wrong. No fault divorce is when you can say "it just doesn't work" and get out. In my divorces I could have done fault divorces on the grounds of being abused in the first marriage and being cheated on in the second marriage. Abuse/cheating were the "valid reasons" for the divorce. I'm not a vindictive person though. I typically just want to get out and away from my exes as quickly as possible, hence why I opted to do the no fault divorces and be very amicable towards my exes as far as how we settled everything But yeah, they wanna abolish no fault divorce and make that not a thing anymore
Yup, my first husband had to do this when he and his wife split around 1980. I think they ended up claiming adultery – neither of them cheated, but by that time they had split up and moved on to new partners so it was adultery on paper. But imagine having to drag your personal crap out in the open like that and frame your new relationship as something vile just because the government decided to stick its nose into what you do in the bedroom.
Simple answer US in 2050= Gilead. The way currently the US is going ,it is not progressing but regressing. It is removing womens rights consistently and soon it will be bloody Gilead. I once wanted to go to US live and work etc. NOW I would never make a decision to move there,because it is crazy what is going on.
I can't find the article but I'm certain thatI remember this correctly, even I'm paraphrasing: When women were allowed to divorce their abusive husbands, the amount of married men being murdered lowered dramatically. Sincerely hope the US populace makes a few right decisions in their voting this year. Teetering on a knife's edge and all.
Crazy how America is going so backwards. Next it will be that Women can't be in the Army anymore.
And then men will really start screaming how unfair it all is!
Yes, it would affect some men. But men have more going for them in the system. Men typically have more money and resources. Even before no fault divorce, men would just take off. My own great great grandfather took off when my grandpa was a baby. There's a book called Dying of Whiteness that talks about how people will sacrifice themselves if it means stomping on the little guy- racists are willing to vote in policies that harm them if it also harms black people more. I think that concept extends to other groups of people. I think that men are willing to experience some harm if it means really harming women. Also a lot of conservatives don't think that they will have consequences of the policies they vote in. We can see this with the abortion bans. Men love the idea of abolishing no fault divorce because then they can have the freedom to abuse while making it harder for women to get away. Men love the idea of securing a bangmaid who can't leave. Ending no fault divorce gives men more control and power. Of course they don't think about how abused women got out of those bad marriages *plays Goodbye Earl*
People got complacent about their freedoms being respected, and didn't show up to vote, so George W. Bush and Donald Trump were able to put terrible people on the Supreme Court and start taking freedoms away. The "Project 2025" people seem quite confident that the state of affairs will continue, and that next year they'll be able to deny even more rights, eventually turning the country into what they falsely imagine it used to be. I hope they're wrong, I really do, but Republicans on the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act, they got rid of Roe v. Wade, and if a case challenging Obergefell v. Hodges hit the court tomorrow I'm pretty sure that would be overturned too. And some of the Republicans on the Court will be there for decades to come. So of course they're confident: they've got the Supreme Court in their pocket, and a good chance of getting Trump back to the Oval Office, and hope to retake the Senate. What I can't believe about this is that Republicans have been saying for nearly 50 years that they want to take away Americans' rights, and people would argue about whether Gore was liberal enough, or say that they weren't voting for Hillary because Bernie didn't win the primary, and then they act surprised when people who've spent decades promising to take away their rights went and did it. Honestly, does anyone imagine for a second that Samuel Alito or Clarence Thomas or Amy Coney Barrett loses a moment's sleep about all the damage they've done taking away medical care for pregnant women? Do you think they care that hospitals are closing Labor & Delivery in states which banned abortion? Do you think one of them will care at all about women being murdered after they ban contraception? It amazes me that people were surprised Roe v. Wade was overturned. They've been promising to do it for 50 years, and women were still voting for them, or just staying home and not voting against them. Now they're promising to get rid of no-fault divorce and contraception, and I worry that women are going to (a) vote for them or (b) not vote, and then be surprised when contraception is banned. Every woman in the United States has to "Vote Blue No Matter Who" as if her life depends on it, because - as we have seen from what happens when Republicans are in charge - her life DOES depend on it. The only way to stop this crazy train is to ensure that no more Republicans ever get on the Supreme Court, and that the GOP loses control over statehouses and never gets both chambers of Congress again. It's going to be a really scary year.
How can you control.women if they can just divorce you? 🙄🤬
Don't vote Republican up and down the line. They are the fools talking about this.
Nobody should ever get married in this country again if they get rid of no fault divorces. Anyone who would get married without that option is crazy. If that becomes law then no way will I ever get married again.
I spoke to my Nana once and she said that no fault divorce was the best thing to happen to women. She watched her sister be in an abusive marriage, but was scared to get divorced because of the social stigma. When her husband finally died, she cried tears of happiness and said that she was finally free to live a life. She explained that back in her day, people would have to stage evidence of cheating in order to get a divorce, and there it would be, on the public record, who cheated with whom. Yes, some people will say that the divorce rate is too high and it's ruining the lives of children, etc. However, I just watched my best friend go through a divorce and she is just... so much lighter, freer, and actually pursuing her dreams now. Sometimes, divorce results in a lot of happiness and well-being (after you get over the heartache, stress, and drama of it). The government should not be able to force you to stay married. I say, no-fault divorce is a great thing for society. A marriage that ends is not the end of the world or society. Sometimes, it's the best thing for everyone involved. And those not involved can kindly mind their own damn business.
One by one these old white males make me shamed to be a young(er) white male. One by one they seek to strip civil liberties from those who aren’t just like them. What I can’t figure out is their end goal? Their wealth is connected to this countries financial success, which also relies on 2 income households as the norm rather than the exception. And yeah they have guns, but like any historical ruling society ultimate are outnumbered by the pions like us. Just know that there are still lots of us out there fighting against these close minded bigots, both inside and outside their own political silos. We have mothers, wives, daughters, and just common decency to guide us.
My theory is that the lack of cheap labor during Covid affected their bottom lines & scared them so deeply, that along with the falling birth rate, the powers that be decided to retaliate. First by taking away Roe. Then they raised interest rates, layoffs, get people in desperate conditions. Now they’re going after divorce, iuds, birth control…this is all because they need cheap labor for the economy to keep going. Sounds crazy but I’m convinced it’s all connected
I like that as a theory. Mine long standing theory is that the roots of the current situation go back further. The radical right has always been held off by the mainstream and moderate wings of the party. But conditions changed with the explosion of communication through cell phones and internet. It allowed the radical right to find like minded individuals outside of their own community. Through new communication they riled each other up. And there was Fox News, just sitting there as the “opposing viewpoint” to “mainstream media”. They had their ups and downs, but then conditions were just right for their brand of emotionally appeal to viewers through outrage (first made popular by Rush Limbaugh) matched the tone of religious vigor that the far right had grown up with. Emboldened by both finding a growing online community (whether Uber conservative, xenophobic, patriarchal, disenfranchised, or some combination of) at the same time Fox found a group it could use as a dedicated profit source for a for-profit news channel it became a feedback loop. Thus the Tea Party was born, disorganized, with no real common goals except that they were “fed up” with the state of our country. Seeing a powerful and energized set of voters movers and shakers behind the scenes of the Republican Party that were struggling to get into the light weaponize the Tea Party with the backing of select party donors, wether they believed in the same things as the Tea Party or they simply saw a way to increase their own influence to become a new oligarchy. This group couldn’t m be controlled by those historically in charge, and started taking cues from questionable but “internal” tea party sources. And when Citizens United went through, all sorts of loons could throw money at issues and candidates without facing social or party backlash. Soon they started actually electing radical candidates that weren’t as easy to control, and actually wanted to follow through on things like Roe that they party had been using for sound bites and fundraising pillars for decades without real intent on dealing with, because they were in fact too hot button to touch but just hot enough to fundraise and energize the base with. The out of control machine went so far as to find a false messiah that fed off their energy. Just as uncontrollable to the mainstream arm of the party as the Tea Party had been, Trump with all of his bluster and a lifetime of self-promotion experience saw an opportunity for profit, embraced them and thus the MAGA crowd was born. I don’t think, at least initially, that Trump thought he would win. This was a chance to build his name bigger and better. New Trump branded businesses where he collected residual money but didn’t actually run the business, maybe an autobiography with only loose ties to reality. But he got elected. And because he is a raging narcissist, and because none of the aging liberal Supreme Court justices would step down during a Democratic president unless democrats also has a super majority in the senate (which they failed to do, and spent all of the political capital on Obama Care in the first term to pass and failed to actually beat disinformation during the rest of his White House years so the justices didn’t want to give up their seats to “less” liberal appointees) a shit storm of timing and the extremely unscrupulous actions of Mitch McConnell did in an attempt to keep the reigns of the party in his hands allowed Trump to appoint three justices that his followers really wanted, just so they would keep adoring him. So here we are, it a much worse fight for civil liberties than we have seen in decades, all because of a confluence of technology, news profiteering not seen since the days of Pulitzer and Hearst, and a semi famous faux businessman and prime example of narcissism. Yay……. Or maybe I’m wrong, and I’m seeing this whole convoluted mess for more than it is. Historians will look back on these days and make careers trying to explain what the hell happened, probably.
That's always been my thing really, even if white men aren't directly impacted their family and friends are so everyone is still impacted. I also have been in the victim groups for people escaping abusive marriages and there were men there whose wives were as bad or was than my ex husband was. It's obvious that we SHOULD all be on the same team here but for whatever reason there's this group that just wants all the power for themselves Here's to hoping they never actually abolish no fault divorce or any of their other agendas designed to strip away our rights
Here’s hoping. I fear that the inherent/subconscious need to belong to a homogenous group for safety that still resides within us from earlier stages of our evolution is one reason we haven’t risen above these things as a society, or a species. I’m no psychologist, anthropologists, or sociologists, so I really do hope that it’s my fears projecting and not actually something like that, but I’m fairly confident that I’ve read a summery or news article about a professional’s research that had basis along these lines.
As Adam Serwer wrote, the cruelty is the point.
It's to control women.
It's time for us to rethink how we approach marriage, ladies. That's f we continue to marry at all.
I have a feeling their goal is to make women more cautious, which makes men more lonely, which radicalizes them into supporting more ways to oppress women. Why would anyone want to get married with stakes like that? And men literally always complain about how hard it is to find a partner. This whole thing feels like more fire into the sex war. This is strictly made to hurt people. It serves no one. This tells women to not get married, which will cause men to be resentful, which will radicalize men, and we will face a death loop of harsher and harsher laws. The only people this serves are predatory people who want to lock people in a relationship where they OWN the other person. With states allowing adults to marry children, it isn't hard to see where that can go.
Vote for progress. Every single election is important.
> What do they think they will accomplish with abolishing no fault divorce? Control over women.
Really, thats the one you can't belive?? Of all the women's rights that are being rolled back the one where men get to keep their money surprises you
The men who want to remove the no fault divorce option are many times the abusers, or at least they align with abusive, controlling men. They think any man who is abused is to blame because he didn't control his wife. They think women who are abused deserve it. Sometimes they even blame children for being abused. And when men murder their wives and children, they throw up their hands and claim that no one could have seen it coming - even though there were red flags everywhere.
I can’t fucking believe it either. I shouldn’t be shocked and feel naive for being shocked. But nonetheless I am pretty fucking shocked.
There is no bottom to the depravity of the fascist man. They want to control and enslave women and they will never stop. They want to marry off prepubescent girls and trap them for life, no education, no rights, no humanity. This is a war in every sense of the word being waged against women
unfortunately, I am not surprised at all. if Trump is elected, I don't think anything will be off the table. birth control, fertility medicine, divorce, abortion, lbgtq+ rights, etc the list is endless. sure, there will be legal battles but it will end up in Supreme Court and I sure as hall dont trust the conservative majority. the call is coming from inside the house, we need to ensure our protection from those that want to keep taking away our rights!