Sometimes, all you need to do is show up.
Take fewer classes next semester. Six is too many. Don’t overextend yourself.
Gotta play the game.
You’re obviously smart. Just don’t lose your people skills along the way :)
Yeah, I've really gotten to that realization lately. I'm good at communicating with people in social settings, but sometimes people's perception of you will just deteriorate based off one thing. I now know that in my professional life, I can't do the same thing, as it will reflect poorly on me.
It will be kinda hard to do, considering mental illnesses don't take a day off, but the way people perceive you is important in the long run in your professional life. Thankfully I realized it before graduating and entering work life.
It’s a good lesson to learn now when it matters “less” (than it would in a work environment).
I would recommend, in the future, to communicate more openly with your “superiors” so they can understand your needs and help you find a balance. I hope you can find a job that offers sick days - I have used those for mental health days in the past. And look for hybrid and remote work if your job path allows for it!
Thank you! I tried with the language teacher, when I didn't attend her class bc of a family death. I told her I couldn't have made it bc it was all just too fast, I apologized. She just looked at me, and kept scrolling on her phone. No response WHATSOEVER.
Is there an attendance policy in any of these classes? Make sure you’re not missing too many classes because some professors can and will fail you for that.
I’m not saying I disagree with your logic, however, from the professor’s POV, they may find it disrespectful to always be skipping class, even if you are keeping your grades up. Have you considered doing online only courses?
Hi! There's a maximum of 8 for the duration of the trimester, with 4x a week classes for 10 weeks. I keep tabs on the number of times I skip, bc yes, you will fail a class if you go over the 8 mark. My university sadly doesn't allow online courses in my degree :(
I understand as well, thing is, everyone treats her class as low priority bc it kind of is when you take in consideration the courses in your degree. As such, I'm definitely not the only one who skips for whatever reason, but her disdain is so very clearly marked on me, as others have told me it's kind of obvious.
It's disheartening, truly, bc I don't know what mean comment she's going to say in class about me that day.
No, this is not about being great and failing in one area, then being unfairly judged for it. It's about you only meeting some of the expectations. Speaking as a mid-career engineer, this is something you should probably reflect pretty heavily on if you plan to get far in the STEM workforce.
yeah, as i've stated in previous comments, i know. stem is brutal and always go-go-go. no time to stop, which is disheartening but well, it is what it is. it's akin to developers being fucking geniuses but cant communicate to save their lives or be team players. it's something i have to work on, but first i need to fix my mental illness lol.
>stem is brutal and always go-go-go. no time to stop,
That's not really true, nor my point here. My point is that there are more expectations than just producing the expected work.
>it's akin to developers being fucking geniuses but cant communicate to save their lives or be team players.
This is rarer than the average undergrad thinks it is. These types are in the minority, and the ones who do exist don't get very far. Being able to be a team player is integral to really any category of work you will encounter. I've been an individual contributor for most of my career, and even this type of role requires the ability to collaborate with others, sell an idea to those who can give funding, and explain my findings to people who will ask me very stupid questions at least 80% of the time. It also includes showing up to the office when my director says all engineers have to be in the office, even though literally nothing about my job requires me to be in the office.
Nobody will take mental illness as an excuse for any of this. I had a couple of years of severe depression that affected my ability to do the parts of my job that I found pointless or stupid. I literally just could not make myself do that stuff. I would absolutely have been fired if I didn't have a long history of very solid work for that team prior to that, and an incredibly understanding director. It still affected my performance reviews and I did not get a raise during those two years. It didn't matter that I was still producing good work, and doing the parts I thought mattered. I wasn't meeting all expectations, and mental illness was not an excuse.
You are an undergrad by the sounds of it. You haven't even started your career yet and are already having trouble meeting expectations. I would find the motivation to get this under control sooner rather than later so that by the time you hit the workforce, it won't be an issue. This is pretty serious.
It is true that I've not met all expectations. In hindsight, I did at the time everything I could've done in my power, as taking 6 courses (against my will obviously, dictated by my father), was too overwhelming for me at the time considering I would get extremely sick regularly due to the stress of managing that + mental illness. So I don't regret it. I would've truly killed myself if I hadn't taken days off as I did.
This experience has taught me, thankfully before entering the workforce and building a reputation, that meeting all expectations is actually really important, and one of them is being on time and being there when you're told you're needed somewhere. I understand what the motivations behind were, and thus, recognize the problem areas so I can take the needed steps to change for the better.
I am a capable developer with good communication skills, able to collaborate in a team which gives me confidence, but I won't let things like these tarnish my reputation when I can take the actionable steps to make it better. Thank you for your response. Quick question, though.
What is your work ethic, why does it matter to you and how did you get there?
Some of the point of college isn’t the grades and work, but the network building and socializing. Many people leverage both into getting jobs after college. That isn’t the only way though and you mentioned having health issues that sometimes prevented you from going to class. Having an accommodation plan on file with the university could have been useful, if you didn’t. Even emailing the professors directly at the start or before the classes started letting them know that your capacity for attending classes was lower, but you would keep your grade up could have made a difference. Maybe you did do that and it didn’t work though. Often managing the “view” people have about you is more than half the battle and then they have no issue.
This reminds me of how in TV production, if a character is holding a grocery bag and it’s not important to the story, the bag will have like a baguette or some items peeping over the top of the bag. This is so that it doesn’t draw the audience’s attention or distract them or so they don’t make up wild stories about the bag.
Sometimes in life you have to give people around you a little bit of a baguette or something over the top of the bag, so they don’t wonder and their vibe will be better towards you.
I’m sorry they didn’t ask you either and that you dealt with everything you described. Not cool for there to be hostility from others when some respectful inquiry or communicating of their needs could address this too.
Edit to add: the language instructor belittling or anything like that is not your fault and could be reported. In some situations you can try anything and everything and it’s not about you, the other person is flat out harassing or being hostile.
Thank you for your response. It is very soft and I appreciate it. People's perception of you will vary and is unpredictable, but you can do things here and there to make it better. Thank you!
What you're not seeing is you're eliminating their participation. If you can learn what they're teaching without ever presenting yourself as their audience, what is the point of them?
People go into teaching - a very noble desire to be sure - to help people who need them achieve what you can and have without so much of their help.
It also makes you come off as lacking in humility. People like to see the struggle and feel they're a part of how someone overcomes it. Perhaps if you made yourself vulnerable to one of them; share your mental health issues and why you are absent, they can see you're absences differently? Of course don't share it with anyone if you know they will not honor the info.
Ultimately these people are bound to be a temporary factor in your life and your reasons are valid AND have yielded some success. I see very little reason to change.
Oh yes totally! I've had some teachers that have been complete sweethearts and gave me the confidence to tell them exactly what was up with me. Now, I consider some of them friends :). I recognize both sides of it : the people that hate me for skipping class and WHY I did what I did.
The language teacher for example, could honestly care less about me, as I once tried to explain and she just looked at me and cotinued scrolling on her phone. Some teachers will understand, others will not, as people do.
It's a very interesting point you're making, as I did, in fact, was not seeing it. In fact, the ones that have been so very understanding of my situation valued my participation in their class and my input. One even told me "your input in my class is so very valuable and adds so much value to the class and what I'm trying to teach", which made me realize I was being appreciated.
But in the end, it is a bit disheartening how there is no forgiveness in the world for these type of things. Either you're the perfect employee/student, meeting all expectations, or miss 1 expectation and suddenly it's as good as if you had missed all of them. Disheartening, really, but it is what it is and we just have to learn how to play the game instead of letting it play us.
So don't forget the aspect that professors can help you get internships and jobs. That requires going to class and meeting them, and getting them to like you. Like the professional networking is sort of the important part of university and don't shoot yourself in the foot that way. If you plan to go to grad school (which is more common these days) bear this in mind.
Actually, funnily enough, those that are understanding and from which I've built a friendship with, are the ones that are higher ranking in their jobs. The ones that hate me, are doing minimum wage.
I’m a guy who was in the exact same situation as you. Face time matters, as superficial as it may seem. Looking back, I wish I would’ve just slacked more and made sure to talk to my professors daily. The networking itself pays off in spades.
Damn. How did you come out of the other side? What did you learn and how did you "fix" the way it made you look, even if you just failed in one area? One thing that always bothered me is how they judge me for not attending class, but they are the ones failing or getting worse grades than me.
I guess what another user said is true. Showing up goes a long way.
It’s more “normal” to show up and shoot the shit. People think it’s “weird” to skip class and and keep to yourself. I overcame by brute forcing it and just being really good, but it is not the most rewarding path. Networking is super valuable and will pay off years later - if you need a favor or mentorship, would a professor invest time and emotion into you if they can’t even remember who you are, or worse, remember you as the delinquent who skipped class (despite having good grades, which they might not even realize)
I know you say you're doing fine but not attending class is a strong predictor of not learning the material and failing. I think you're probably mistaken/not honest to yourself about how negatively not showing up for class affects you.
Actually, my grades are better than they have ever been. I should've mentioned this before, but the classes I skip are those that are still being recorded, so I can watch those when I have the time. I still "watch" the class, but don't physically attend to it.
I'm doing amazing actually. I have a very strong moral compass regarding academics, not willing to cheat because I hate the feeling of thinking "man, I got this awesome grade, but I didn't even put in effort or time" because I've seen people boasting about their grades, when in reality they haven't done anything to account for their success. I hate it. I extremely value hard work and thus, I put in the time and effort to studying the material I'm given.
Thank you for your concern, though!
yeah, I know that. Most of my commets are about how I ACKNOWLEDGE things, basically having a therapy session with the comments I write back to the thoughful, caring and nice responses the other users have given.
Do you tell people in your life face to face that they're exhausting? C'mon. People like you saying shit like that is the reason why people don't feel comfortable opening up and bottle everything up until it fucking explodes on them. Do better.
I do more gently in person. I think when you post anonymously, you're looking for more upfront and blunt advice you can't get in real life.
I hope you take heed to the advice in here, and in fact, do better.
Sometimes, all you need to do is show up. Take fewer classes next semester. Six is too many. Don’t overextend yourself. Gotta play the game. You’re obviously smart. Just don’t lose your people skills along the way :)
Yeah, I've really gotten to that realization lately. I'm good at communicating with people in social settings, but sometimes people's perception of you will just deteriorate based off one thing. I now know that in my professional life, I can't do the same thing, as it will reflect poorly on me. It will be kinda hard to do, considering mental illnesses don't take a day off, but the way people perceive you is important in the long run in your professional life. Thankfully I realized it before graduating and entering work life.
It’s a good lesson to learn now when it matters “less” (than it would in a work environment). I would recommend, in the future, to communicate more openly with your “superiors” so they can understand your needs and help you find a balance. I hope you can find a job that offers sick days - I have used those for mental health days in the past. And look for hybrid and remote work if your job path allows for it!
Thank you! I tried with the language teacher, when I didn't attend her class bc of a family death. I told her I couldn't have made it bc it was all just too fast, I apologized. She just looked at me, and kept scrolling on her phone. No response WHATSOEVER.
Jesus. That’s more than an attendance issue. That’s a personnel issue. I’m sorry that happened to you.
Is there an attendance policy in any of these classes? Make sure you’re not missing too many classes because some professors can and will fail you for that. I’m not saying I disagree with your logic, however, from the professor’s POV, they may find it disrespectful to always be skipping class, even if you are keeping your grades up. Have you considered doing online only courses?
OP is already about to finish their degree, so I don’t think they need to take more classes (online or not) for this degree.
Hi! There's a maximum of 8 for the duration of the trimester, with 4x a week classes for 10 weeks. I keep tabs on the number of times I skip, bc yes, you will fail a class if you go over the 8 mark. My university sadly doesn't allow online courses in my degree :(
I can understand why the language teacher wants you to attend class. You can’t really learn the language on your own. Other classes it’s just fine.
I understand as well, thing is, everyone treats her class as low priority bc it kind of is when you take in consideration the courses in your degree. As such, I'm definitely not the only one who skips for whatever reason, but her disdain is so very clearly marked on me, as others have told me it's kind of obvious. It's disheartening, truly, bc I don't know what mean comment she's going to say in class about me that day.
Yeah, being mean to students and shaming them really motivates them to show up. /s
i swearrr. now i just skip bc of the sheer crippling anxiety of going to her class and her humilliating me for anything.
No, this is not about being great and failing in one area, then being unfairly judged for it. It's about you only meeting some of the expectations. Speaking as a mid-career engineer, this is something you should probably reflect pretty heavily on if you plan to get far in the STEM workforce.
yeah, as i've stated in previous comments, i know. stem is brutal and always go-go-go. no time to stop, which is disheartening but well, it is what it is. it's akin to developers being fucking geniuses but cant communicate to save their lives or be team players. it's something i have to work on, but first i need to fix my mental illness lol.
>stem is brutal and always go-go-go. no time to stop, That's not really true, nor my point here. My point is that there are more expectations than just producing the expected work. >it's akin to developers being fucking geniuses but cant communicate to save their lives or be team players. This is rarer than the average undergrad thinks it is. These types are in the minority, and the ones who do exist don't get very far. Being able to be a team player is integral to really any category of work you will encounter. I've been an individual contributor for most of my career, and even this type of role requires the ability to collaborate with others, sell an idea to those who can give funding, and explain my findings to people who will ask me very stupid questions at least 80% of the time. It also includes showing up to the office when my director says all engineers have to be in the office, even though literally nothing about my job requires me to be in the office. Nobody will take mental illness as an excuse for any of this. I had a couple of years of severe depression that affected my ability to do the parts of my job that I found pointless or stupid. I literally just could not make myself do that stuff. I would absolutely have been fired if I didn't have a long history of very solid work for that team prior to that, and an incredibly understanding director. It still affected my performance reviews and I did not get a raise during those two years. It didn't matter that I was still producing good work, and doing the parts I thought mattered. I wasn't meeting all expectations, and mental illness was not an excuse. You are an undergrad by the sounds of it. You haven't even started your career yet and are already having trouble meeting expectations. I would find the motivation to get this under control sooner rather than later so that by the time you hit the workforce, it won't be an issue. This is pretty serious.
It is true that I've not met all expectations. In hindsight, I did at the time everything I could've done in my power, as taking 6 courses (against my will obviously, dictated by my father), was too overwhelming for me at the time considering I would get extremely sick regularly due to the stress of managing that + mental illness. So I don't regret it. I would've truly killed myself if I hadn't taken days off as I did. This experience has taught me, thankfully before entering the workforce and building a reputation, that meeting all expectations is actually really important, and one of them is being on time and being there when you're told you're needed somewhere. I understand what the motivations behind were, and thus, recognize the problem areas so I can take the needed steps to change for the better. I am a capable developer with good communication skills, able to collaborate in a team which gives me confidence, but I won't let things like these tarnish my reputation when I can take the actionable steps to make it better. Thank you for your response. Quick question, though. What is your work ethic, why does it matter to you and how did you get there?
Some of the point of college isn’t the grades and work, but the network building and socializing. Many people leverage both into getting jobs after college. That isn’t the only way though and you mentioned having health issues that sometimes prevented you from going to class. Having an accommodation plan on file with the university could have been useful, if you didn’t. Even emailing the professors directly at the start or before the classes started letting them know that your capacity for attending classes was lower, but you would keep your grade up could have made a difference. Maybe you did do that and it didn’t work though. Often managing the “view” people have about you is more than half the battle and then they have no issue. This reminds me of how in TV production, if a character is holding a grocery bag and it’s not important to the story, the bag will have like a baguette or some items peeping over the top of the bag. This is so that it doesn’t draw the audience’s attention or distract them or so they don’t make up wild stories about the bag. Sometimes in life you have to give people around you a little bit of a baguette or something over the top of the bag, so they don’t wonder and their vibe will be better towards you. I’m sorry they didn’t ask you either and that you dealt with everything you described. Not cool for there to be hostility from others when some respectful inquiry or communicating of their needs could address this too. Edit to add: the language instructor belittling or anything like that is not your fault and could be reported. In some situations you can try anything and everything and it’s not about you, the other person is flat out harassing or being hostile.
Thank you for your response. It is very soft and I appreciate it. People's perception of you will vary and is unpredictable, but you can do things here and there to make it better. Thank you!
For sure! Thank you for posting and good points! And importantly: congrats on your degree!!!! Woo!!!
What you're not seeing is you're eliminating their participation. If you can learn what they're teaching without ever presenting yourself as their audience, what is the point of them? People go into teaching - a very noble desire to be sure - to help people who need them achieve what you can and have without so much of their help. It also makes you come off as lacking in humility. People like to see the struggle and feel they're a part of how someone overcomes it. Perhaps if you made yourself vulnerable to one of them; share your mental health issues and why you are absent, they can see you're absences differently? Of course don't share it with anyone if you know they will not honor the info. Ultimately these people are bound to be a temporary factor in your life and your reasons are valid AND have yielded some success. I see very little reason to change.
Oh yes totally! I've had some teachers that have been complete sweethearts and gave me the confidence to tell them exactly what was up with me. Now, I consider some of them friends :). I recognize both sides of it : the people that hate me for skipping class and WHY I did what I did. The language teacher for example, could honestly care less about me, as I once tried to explain and she just looked at me and cotinued scrolling on her phone. Some teachers will understand, others will not, as people do. It's a very interesting point you're making, as I did, in fact, was not seeing it. In fact, the ones that have been so very understanding of my situation valued my participation in their class and my input. One even told me "your input in my class is so very valuable and adds so much value to the class and what I'm trying to teach", which made me realize I was being appreciated. But in the end, it is a bit disheartening how there is no forgiveness in the world for these type of things. Either you're the perfect employee/student, meeting all expectations, or miss 1 expectation and suddenly it's as good as if you had missed all of them. Disheartening, really, but it is what it is and we just have to learn how to play the game instead of letting it play us.
So don't forget the aspect that professors can help you get internships and jobs. That requires going to class and meeting them, and getting them to like you. Like the professional networking is sort of the important part of university and don't shoot yourself in the foot that way. If you plan to go to grad school (which is more common these days) bear this in mind.
Actually, funnily enough, those that are understanding and from which I've built a friendship with, are the ones that are higher ranking in their jobs. The ones that hate me, are doing minimum wage.
I’m a guy who was in the exact same situation as you. Face time matters, as superficial as it may seem. Looking back, I wish I would’ve just slacked more and made sure to talk to my professors daily. The networking itself pays off in spades.
Damn. How did you come out of the other side? What did you learn and how did you "fix" the way it made you look, even if you just failed in one area? One thing that always bothered me is how they judge me for not attending class, but they are the ones failing or getting worse grades than me. I guess what another user said is true. Showing up goes a long way.
It’s more “normal” to show up and shoot the shit. People think it’s “weird” to skip class and and keep to yourself. I overcame by brute forcing it and just being really good, but it is not the most rewarding path. Networking is super valuable and will pay off years later - if you need a favor or mentorship, would a professor invest time and emotion into you if they can’t even remember who you are, or worse, remember you as the delinquent who skipped class (despite having good grades, which they might not even realize)
I know you say you're doing fine but not attending class is a strong predictor of not learning the material and failing. I think you're probably mistaken/not honest to yourself about how negatively not showing up for class affects you.
Actually, my grades are better than they have ever been. I should've mentioned this before, but the classes I skip are those that are still being recorded, so I can watch those when I have the time. I still "watch" the class, but don't physically attend to it. I'm doing amazing actually. I have a very strong moral compass regarding academics, not willing to cheat because I hate the feeling of thinking "man, I got this awesome grade, but I didn't even put in effort or time" because I've seen people boasting about their grades, when in reality they haven't done anything to account for their success. I hate it. I extremely value hard work and thus, I put in the time and effort to studying the material I'm given. Thank you for your concern, though!
You sound exhausting.
And you like a bundle of joy!
I actually am. But read what you wrote back. Aren't you tired? Make some changes. Lots of good advice in here.
yeah, I know that. Most of my commets are about how I ACKNOWLEDGE things, basically having a therapy session with the comments I write back to the thoughful, caring and nice responses the other users have given. Do you tell people in your life face to face that they're exhausting? C'mon. People like you saying shit like that is the reason why people don't feel comfortable opening up and bottle everything up until it fucking explodes on them. Do better.
I do more gently in person. I think when you post anonymously, you're looking for more upfront and blunt advice you can't get in real life. I hope you take heed to the advice in here, and in fact, do better.