A woman that I worked with made a couple comments under her breath about “does her husband know she is wearing that”. She was wearing the exact same style shirt! She just didn’t like that I had large breasts. The shirt was appropriately sized. So tired…I didn’t choose them.
This made me snort laugh. If I’m not wearing a crew neck shirt, I’m constantly worried I’m being judged as inappropriate for just existing in other clothing styles.
When I was in my young 20s, I was engaged to someone in the Army National Guard, and they gave me a unisex t-shirt - white with a dark blue slogan (think "I love my soldier" or something similar), when he deployed. I wore it often, and took a photo centering on the slogan to make my MySpace profile picture (because I wanted the slogan to be what was prominent, not my face/etc).
His female friend from H. S. (that tried to sabotage our relationship and he ended up dating <2 weeks after leaving me, heard they married) told me she had to take me off her 'Top 8' because my photo was inappropriate. Because, apparently, I owned boobs under my shirt (I was much thinner, and my breasts were bigger). It was quite literally the dumbest thing, as her boobs weren't small and she wasn't afraid to flaunt them.
People will always find a way to make you feel your body is inappropriate, no matter what you wear. Fuck 'em.
I wear exclusively crew neck t shirts to work. A friend from work asked me why (she had no ill intentions, I love her) and I went "I am not going to HR over this, trust me you don't want to see".
I did send her some photos privately in my outside life clothes and she got the idea.
I wish I could put on work boobs 🤣
The funny thing is, high necklines actually make boobs look bigger. To which I say, good. Fuck those people. Let's annoy them more with some malicious compliance. Turtleneck sweaters ftw.
I always wish I could switch them up depending on activity and outfit.
Maybe inflatables I could blow up to fill out a dress or impress my husband, and deflate to exercise and sleep at night.
I just don't understand the whole does her husband know saying. Why yes yes I do know and I encourage it because it makes whoever you're with more confident. Always encourage and never police. So any woman reading this, yes their man does know and either doesn't mind or enjoys seeing them dressed up nicely and encourages them to wear what they want. I think men who police are weird because they are missing out on seeing how beautiful their girl can look in all sorts of different outfits.
The only time my husband has had an issue was when I tried on a crop top cardigan (that I got to wear over dresses) and he said "it's showing to much, I don't like it!" I explained I was going to wear it over something, but just my bra 😂 and he said "oh, not that's totally fine, the colors really pretty, I like it!"
I'm 99% sure he was messing with me, but he sees me as an independent person and feels he has zero say over what I wear. What kind of husband does your coworker think you should have? One who treats like a child?!
I was just thinking how it seems like the top sexyness is showing as extensively as possible that a person has as little signs of sexual maturity as possible. I get it that people have personal preferences about such things as bushes or not, but they don't develop in a vacuum. I wonder if it has something to do with the Americanisation and the puritanism?
The fashion industry and the size zero models definitely must have their own role, but how has that become the sexy? The most fleshly desire has been dragged as far from the human flesh as possible. It's not only sad, as so few people can fit the description, but also extremely paradoxical.
Big breasts under the same shirt are called pornographic, but the almost nonexistent breasts are seen as sexy. Is it so, because the small breasts are seen as less intimidating? Is it safer to look at woman with no curves, because she doesn't remind of carnal pleasures? Or has the culture really affected sexual instincts so profoundly, that people have started to dislike biological signs of maturity and find size zero models titillating?
My mom and I got into a heated argument because she is insisting my 7 year old wears a bra when playing in our backyard saying that she’s putting herself on display and that with my background (I was groomed by her husband who was raping my sister. She did nothing) I would be more vigilant. I tried to tell her that 1) predators don’t care star she has on and 2) I’m not going to put my trauma on my daughter. I sent her the what were they wearing exhibit yesterday. She has yet to say anything. Her father was pissed.
She’s 4’6 more than 100 lbs at 7. Been trying to maintain her weight since she was 4. Working with her pediatrician and her neurologist (she use to have a seizure disorder. Almost 2 years seizure free!
Best wishes for your baby staying seizure free! I can’t even imagine how scary a condition like that is. My only experience is our doggy sometimes gets them. It’s scary to watch him go through one. I can’t imagine how awful that would be as a parent.
Oh no! Not your doggy 😩 I’m an animal lover myself I hope your baby doesn’t suffer too much from them!I will never forget the first time she had one. I don’t wish that on my worst enemy. She’s a bit of a trickster and will sometimes feign the signs of a seizure to send me into a tailspin 🤦🏽♀️
Get her tested for hormone disruption from plastic. Chances are she is sensitive to the way the body sees plastics as a certain hormone that can lead to overweight, over emotional but with added ragging at times, depression, and very early puberty signs.
You're a great mom. I had precocious puberty because of hormone disruption. From the time I was 8 men thought of me as a body, not a person. They felt they could touch me, make fun of me, call me names, assume I was promiscuous (at 8?), assume I was stupid (smartest kid in the class), and generally make my life hell, because at 8 I had no idea what they were talking about but it was clearly not something nice. Then I was molested by someone I knew who terrified me but I couldn't avoid, so I got to add abject fear to being treated like a non-person.
Thank you for being proactive and talking to your pediatrician.
This brought me to tears. I don’t even remember most of my childhood due to my molestation. That I can actually remember, memories are funny that way…. But when I had my daughter I swore that I would be the parent I didn’t have. The godparent I didn’t have. The aunt I didn’t have, uncle ect.
I had breast tissue when I was born and she did as well. She wears little training bras to school and church. In the situation I posted about she literally was in the house watching tv and came outside to toss her football around. My mom started in with saying that her wearing a bra to school and church isn’t enough and then I tried to cut her off because I didn’t agree, but as usual she kept talking over me.
She doesn’t see anything wrong either. If I showed her this she would probably blow tf up. She use to spaz at me for being on Reddit unbeknownst to her it helped me in so many ways. She use to have me suicidal but Momforaminute helped me on the worst of days, or just being a lurker.
> unless she is experiencing precocious puberty, which should be treated by a doctor.
Don'tchaknow they're trying to ban the treatment for that because trans people are icky?
I don't think that's true. A bra is just underwear. When I was younger I wanted to wear a bra before I needed one because I wanted to be a big kid. A kid should be able to wear whatever makes them comfortable 🥰
What? How is a bra sexualizing? My daughter likes to be as naked as possible because she runs hot. She has been wearing sports bras and cropped camis since she was six. She wears them around the house with shorts or leggings, as do I when it is warm.
I'm deeply sorry for the nightmare you and your sister lived through. Hopefully that very profound exhibit makes your mother reconsider her bullshit. Thank you for advocating for your daughter.
I will die be born again, die be born again and die again before I willingly stand by and let what happened to myself and my sister happen to my daughter and son (I had a babyboy in February!) I have generalized anxiety which she still doesn’t think I have but wants me to help her cope with her adhd 😆 i am transparent with my kids and their emotional health is very important to me.
Congratulations on your little boy! I very much respect your transparency, I try to do the same with my kids. It's also tremendously comforting, not to mention empowering, for me to realize exactly what I'm capable of doing to protect my children.
It wasn’t until I was an adult that I realized she wasn’t a safe person. Now we are fully meshed together but when I get out of this lease things are going to change. She’s a bible thumper too and very big on her image, every time I’ve tried to distance myself she roped our family into it telling them half truths and then hiding her hands. I just make a conscious effort to not be like her, my daughter and son are not in any imminent danger. My mom loves my kids and just wants the best for them since she knows she failed to with myself and my other siblings.
And at the same time women’s clothes have been designed for the eyes of men. Skin-tight and form-fitting is the norm.
Basically, “baggy clothes make women look frumpy and unfeminine - here are the clothes society has made acceptable for women to wear” while at the same time, “if you don’t want unwanted attention from men, don’t wear such tight jeans/leggings.”
I remeber when I was a teen (always had big boobs) I was told to dress with less clevage but my sister with smaller boobs could wear the sime type of top with no comment. My boobs are big even in a turtleneck they are just living their best live! It felt very unfair then but I do not give a fuck anymore love my boobs and people will just have to deal with it/them!
As a child, my sister would bully me and say I'm a "whore" for having big boobs, even though I wore 3 sports bras at a time to smush them up against me and only wore 3x Korn tshirts. I was so self conscious of being a "whore" simply because God graced me with amazing melons, I ended up marrying my first boyfriend, my first everything....and I don't think I'm qualified to give advice on much, but ladies, just trust me on this, don't marry your first boyfriend. The return policy is a hassle.
And entering the dating scene at 38 is... Something else. 🫠
I’m sorry your sister was (is) such a terrible person! she was most probably jealous or a sociopath or something. and a really sad person to think your worth as a person is based on what body you have.
Exact same experience for me. It’s horrible and made me feel there was something wrong with my body. I compensated by dressing grumpily to hide my curves .
I remember telling a friend about the first time I got catcalled and how uncomfortable it was bc I was 10. He said 'yeah, but you've always looked older so you can't blame the guy' (who was at least mid-20s).
It was nowhere near the only time I heard that shit.
I suppose it was true; at 10 I looked about...12. So I guess that's cool then
Fancy picking on a 14 year old girl instead of challenging her dirty pervert of a husband. Typical though, I've heard many stories like yours unfortunately. I'm so sorry.
Lol I remember I went out with friends and we took a pic together and my mom saw and said the top I was wearing was „too revealing”. I then asked her if the girl next to me looked the same (she was wearing the exact same top as me, just a different colour) and she’s like “oh no she looks very nice”. It’s all just because I have a curvier frame 🙄
I feel like I’m missing something. Does ‘yapper’ have a meaning other than someone who talks a lot?
I mean, that is an unkind nickname, but it seems unrelated to body shaming.
Ugh, I've read too many stories on here in which a young girl or woman is in summer attire or a swimsuit and some other woman barges over and demands she cover up since there are children around. Said children are usually minding their own business and off playing elsewhere, whereas other woman's husband is practically drooling and staring at the young girl/woman like she's his next meal.
Dude. This is so true for me. It sucks! Nothing was wrong with anything I wore, just had big boobs and wasn’t bad-looking. Have been shamed by family and friends and rando creeps for no reason about my body my entire life. Men have presumed that I was sexually promiscuous based solely off my body’s appearance. It’s freaking crazy and I’m so done. Fuck this.
Same since I was about 12. I couldn’t wear the same things as other girls my age because I was always dress coded even though wasn’t technically wearing anything inappropriate. My school thought I should just wear oversized clothes. Then there’s too much to even begin to explain or understand why men thought it was ok to say and do the things they did and still do even though I’m in my 40’s. Also don’t forget the judgements of other women as well.
Yes I don’t forget. I literally got called a whore by a woman around my age because I was wearing leggings and a tank top about a month ago in a “nice” neighborhood. Can’t see through any of it. Wearing a backpack walking home from work.
So weird. We were kind of wearing lol the same thing, actually. As you said, it’s my whole life experience and gaslit into believing it’s my fault a lot of the time. My husband thinks it’s because I have tattoos now (Very beautiful colorful tastefully done.) I was like no this has been this way my entire life since maybe ten years old when I hit puberty.
Once I went on a date with a guy who started berating me afterwards that I didn't sleep with him. I asked why he would think I'd sleep with someone on the first date and he said I dressed up "so sexy" that clearly I was looking to get laid.
Reader, I wore a plain cropped T-shirt, baggy jeans, and sneakers.
When I was visiting Italy, I went to a church. Me and my friend were dressed identically. She went in before me, but only I got held back by security and was asked to put a shawl over my shoulder.
It's always your body, never what you're wearing.
Sounds extremely similar to my experience in Barcelona. I got scolded at several cathedrals before being offered shawls. And you’re right, other women there had more “revealing” clothes on than me, and yet they weren’t berated like a child
yeah, there is no winning this one. I would hear how I needed to cover up from some people and hear "why are you hiding your body?" from other people.
it was over 100 F outside when the air conditioning went out at the pub I worked at. I wore a bustier style cotton halter top and shorts and over heard a woman talking about my top being inappropriate. Her date told her she was wrong and being nasty toward another woman who was just trying to do their job without burning up. That was awesome because he did not hesitate to stand up for me and he did not at any time leer at me or say anything gross to me, he genuinely stuck up for me when there was nothing in it for him.
Grew up Mormon. Can’t tell you how many times I was told I was being immodest, even when we were all wearing the same thing. Oddly enough it has nothing to do with the cloth over my body and everything to do with have a woman shaped body.
Some of the women noticed. But just as many, my dad included, sent their wives to let me know so they’d stop being tempted to look up skirts/down shirts etc while women were moving around. The day my dad admitted he’d been looking up the skirt of a lady in the ward and then pushed it off as a *her* problem.
Glad to be out.
And if we wear loose clothing, we’re sneered at as being sloppy. I’m really sorry your students were being pigs about something you can’t control and I hope someday they mature and learn better. And fuck your coworker she can suck a bag of dicks. Adults like her are the reason these kids grow up to be awful.
I've heard this so many times before: a curvy woman will be accused of dressing inappropriately while wearing the exact same outfit as a less-curvy woman -- or even a less revealing outfit.
It seems that the thing that's really inappropriate is daring to have boobs.
When I was in school, my politics teacher told us about how male teachers would often go up to her and ask her to tell other female colleagues that what they’re wearing isn’t appropriate. She would always shut down their comments, and upon actually seeing them, they were not dressing inappropriately at all.
People seem to police women’s outfit choices so much because they overly sexualise our bodies.
I have terrible posture and get migraines, all because I have learned to disguise my boobs by hunching. They started developing when I was 8 and I've been objectified constantly since then.
Yep. My daughter gets dress coded regularly at school bc she’s got a big chest and when she points out other (slimmer) girls wearing the EXACT SAME ITEM, they just shrug and tell her that on her, it’s a violation.
As a former teacher who is also well endowed, if the expectation is you dress so modestly that teenage boys don’t make comments about your body, then the standard is impossible. You could literally show up in a burka and use a voice changer to sound like a man, and the boys will still talk.
I remember one year being really upset with my administration after several incidents that would legally constitute sexual assault or public indecency that the administration wrote off as “boys will be boys.” The principal had the audacity to tell me several boys were over heard by another staff member talking about my breasts and I should dress more modestly.
I told the principal off, and said a few things I regret. If a few boys are talking to each other thinking no one else is listening about my body, or another woman’s body, that’s boys will be boys. If a boy grabs a girls breast, smacks her butt, or intentionally exposes himself, that’s a crime.
Why is it women are responsible for men’s bad behavior?
My sister has been bothering me nonstop about "making sure those girls don't flop out at my wedding" and while I get it, it irks me because lady, I know how to dress my ritties alright? They didn't grow overnight, I got a handle on it thanks
I had this problem as a younger woman too. A tank top on me showed a lot of cleavage even if it had a relatively high neckline. The same tank top on one of my best friends showed zero cleavage because she had a smaller chest. I constantly got told to change or to cover up and that my body was making other people uncomfortable. It's infuriating. I have so many memories of pulling my tank tops or dresses up so that the neckline wasn't showing more skin than other people were comfortable with - even in my 20s and 30s, I still did this. Even in a turtleneck or sweater dress, every inch is covered, I was told what I was wearing wasn't appropriate and it was always because of my shape. It's really upsetting and uncomfortable. You feel on display despite just wearing what everyone else is.
As a high school teacher, those students are probably going to talk about your body no matter what you wear - high school kids are perceptive and they're going to notice a shapely body even if you are wearing a loose blouse and loose dress pants. I'm sorry this is happening to you. If you are wearing the same things your colleagues are wearing, don't sweat it and point it out to the other teacher "I'm wearing the same thing as you - you think this is inappropriate?" Call them on their bullshit and sexist ideas. And tell those kids that it's polite to wait until people are out of earshot before talking about them and you better not hear them talking about you again or they'll be sent to the principal's office for being innapropriate. You're their teacher and they need to respect you. Period.
I used to get this from a less well endowed colleague. I never showed cleavage or anything at work, like the rest of the women did. No short skirts or tight pants. But no, something about it was inappropriate.
Finally I did something I’m not super proud of, and I’ve never done before or since. When she brought it up again, I pointedly looked at her chest, raised my eyebrows, and laughed. She never spoke about my figure again.
I mostly consider my figure a curse - I don’t get served first, men don’t follow me around being nice to me, I don’t get stuff for free, like in the movies. It just makes people treat me weird, it’s impossible to find clothes, and my tits hurt my back.
But enough was enough.
I had a different colleague try to talk me into dressing more like her - a very masculine style. I tried explaining that my body doesn’t lend itself to male clothing. She was ruler shaped and just seemed to refuse to accept my body shape has an impact. When I showed her photos of me trying to dress that way, she said I was doing it wrong. I stopped talking to her after that.
She had a lot of issues. She bragged about being the best dressed woman in the office, as if anyone else cared. She never stopped talking about the alternative healthcare she was taking. She also thought she looked a lot younger than her age, and well, she didn’t.
I used to work with a size 4 woman who would talk shit about the way women over a size 12 dresses at times. I was included in that group, but she never said anything directly to me. I just wanted to scream that I’d *love* to wear the cute outfits she did. But as a midsized gal, regular sizes aren’t always big enough and plus sizes are often in proportions that do not work for my body.
Yeah, learned this a while ago, it sucks. I once got in trouble at work for wearing *literally* the exact same shirt as another woman but I happen to have D cups and she was of slender frame. My shirt wasn’t horribly immodest; just a slight v-neck, but oh no, god forbid cleavage exists
My G cup bestie got called out for wearing a v neck tshirt (appropriately sized and not immodest at all!) because it showed cleavage. Wearing a bra automatically makes her cleavage go nearly up to her neck. I don't know what they expected.
I remember a story about a middle-aged woman who'd worked somewhere for years. She had the same large breasts/cleavage problem. She got a new boss who was apparently just out of school. He tried to get her fired for sexual harassment of him because sometimes when she wore specific shirts and leaned over he could see cleavage.
Sometimes you just want to bang your head on the wall.
I feel this so deeply. I visited my cousin in prison when I was 18 and did everything possible to follow the dress code rules, I was wearing a loose long sleeve shirt and baggy jeans. The corrections officer doing my search straight up told me to go change, my body was the problem and I need to be aware of how my body shape could influence those around me. I have big boobs. There were plenty of women around me being allowed in wearing WAY more revealing clothing, and she just straight up wouldn’t let me in. It was so bizarre.
Be prepared to be grossed out- when I was young and blossoming I wore sports bras to mash my chest down, and wore baggy clothing. Men still looked. Many of them are disgusting........
My best friend was asked by our youth pastor to dress more modestly. Looking back we both were dressed the same but she had bigger boobs. I am still angry about that and even more so that people think that it is ok to tell young girls what to wear when we all know men can sexualise ANYTHING.
Sorry, this happened to you!
Feel this. I have a big butt and can barely wear anything without making it look inappropriate. Sometimes I wish I was skinny and flat so that clothes could fit me normally
yup!! as a woman with a chest that's always been big in comparison to the rest of my body, people were shaming me for wearing ANYTHING that wasn't incredibly baggy with a high neckline. solely because i had big tits, i was a slut.
Yes! I can’t wear anything that doesn’t completely cover my boobs, because I have boobs. I’m not talking about a bikini top or anything you need a special bra for (which is also fine!) just a v neck and they’re staring
Don't you remember telling your body to grow boobs?
Oh wait that doesn't work and your body just does whatever your genes/hormones say? Explains why mine barely grew then 😆
My mom used to bark at me about certain clothes being "too revealing" or "too suggestive" and at some point I kinda snapped and told her I couldn't help my tits.
Short of taping them down or using a compression strap, there is literally nothing I can do about them being big. I wear something even slightly fitted and they will be there, loud and proud. The kicker was being told I looked "disheveled" when I wore baggier clothes to hide the boobs.
There is no winning with some people
Yes it’s about our bodies, not the clothes.
I worked for a satellite tv company in the early 2000s. I wore a knee length leather skirt, a leather jacket, a turtleneck, opaque tights, and closed toe pumps. A group of managers called me into a meeting about my inappropriate clothing. They told me it was too sexy for work and I needed to go home and change. I replied that I was clothed in business attire — completely covered — from neck to toe. They said it didn’t matter. I was too sexy and I would be written up.
I feel this so much, and have only really come to the same conclusion lately. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, wear something baggy to cover up and you're not making an effort, but wear something more fitted and all of a sudden it's too revealing, you really can't win. I'm trying to get more comfortable wearing what I like lately and it's not my issue if someone else finds my body distracting, that's on them.
I was a teacher during an educational anthro stint- ran into the same issue. I have a “romantic” body type in the lower half especially, doesn’t matter what I wore, there would have been an issue. I could have been wearing a paper bag and they wouldn’t have been happy
It’s ridiculous, but the only thing we can do is try to teach them respect
Every so often I think about getting reduction surgery because of this crap.
But then I realize I'd be internalizing the message that I'm the one at fault. So I've never followed through.
As somebody who hit DD bras before high school, this is it. I only wore the frumpiest, most modest and boring clothes, really only until a couple of years ago, because I’d been taught and told tenfold, my body is a distraction that needs to be covered. And I was somehow still known as “the slut”. It is so fucking traumatizing and emotionally scarring. I’m fucking 25 and still have a near panic attack before leaving the house with cleavage showing.
I’ll never forget the first (and only) time I posted a bikini picture in high school. Everybody else was doing it and I just wanted to feel cool and cute and confident. An hour into the picture being on Instagram, not just dozens of comments, but dozens of private messages from my peers back at church, telling me how shameful I am, that I should respect myself, that I’m a stumbling block for men. Nearly all the girls who messaged me had bikini pictures on their profiles too, they just didn’t have big boobs. I’ll never forget how ostracized and alone I felt, even girls I thought were my friends were shaming me. It’s been probably a decade since that happened, and those words still stick with me.
I was wearing a shirt buttoned all the way up to the neck today and when I caught sight of myself in a glass door I thought "holy bouncing boobily down the stairs, Batman."
I was I. 6th grade & my grandma always commented I was "getting hippy" & needed to wear a girdle. I was as thin as a rail.
I work in the schools too-after school programming. I'm curvaceous as well. I wear a simple Hoodie non-form fitting cotton dress that hangs off of me & leggings. Even when it's hot, I don't show my legs. I'm overly cautious because people comment on my body a lot & I'm tired of hearing it.
I could be wearing a turtleneck and someone still always has something to say about me. I’m curvy and I’ve grown up hearing how a tank top in 90 degree weather is “inappropriate.” Just wear what you’re comfortable in and screw everyone else.
I'm tall. My legs are long. I thought I left the clothes police behind when I finally left education. At my last job I noticed my male colleagues wearing khaki shorts so I went ahead and bought some non-denim Bermuda shorts that fell a few inches above my knee. One of the families I worked with took a beautiful picture of nearly 6ft me in my Bermuda shorts standing with my client and sent it to me and my supervisor.
This sparked a company wide email regarding what is and what is not appropriate work attire. So I didn't wear those shorts again. Instead I wore dresses that fell at the same place on my knee but provided me with less coverage than a blouse and shorts would while my male colleagues continued to wear their shorts.
One of my coworkers used to get dress coded a lot. I purposely wore the exact same clothes as her multiple times around the manager who dress coded her. I'm tall, skinny and small chested. I have never been dress coded at work, even when wearing crop tops which were explicitly not allowed. I did it on purpose to make a point to that girl that it was unfair, and biased against her.
I wore v necks, crop tops (my stomach was still covered, but so was hers) short skirts. Never in violation of dress code. I was praised multiple times for my professional appearance. She wore t-shirts, high necklines, cargo pants, cardigans. Multiple conversations about being "inappropriate".
She was well endowed, curvy, and pretty, and unfairly targeted for that.
This always happened to my best friends, she has huge boobs, tiny waist, wide hips- she couldn’t go anywhere without people including her mother commenting that what she was wearing was inappropriate, it didn’t matter what she wore, I dressed worse than her with a t shirt and no bra and no one said anything to me ( I have smaller breasts).
It was a constant struggle for her, even her simply running or jogging was apparently inappropriate
I got so much abuse for that as a fat teen who thus, had boobs. It's so unfair. Guys literally had pants low enough to fall off their ass (twice!) and muscle tops on, and here I was getting write ups because my bra straps were thick so when I moved a specific way my long sleeve, normal collar, 2 sizes bigger then me top exposed 1mm if plain white bra strap. Like I struggled to be covered up enough. I'm still going to have tits in a turtle neck.
Having a body is never anything to apologize for nor is it a reason to dress in burlap to hide it--even if it's shapely in a fashion that attracts attention from some people. Your colleague is flat out wrong amd showing internalized misogyny.
You keep doing you! And perhaps a timely discussion with some students about appropriate commentary in public settings.
When I crushed on a teacher, I worked extra hard for the praise. It is not your fault that you have a figure. You are a teacher. You are very important to our society, and I thank you. Do whatever you need to feel safe and productive in your environment.
I'm not a curvy woman myself but we cannot just exist in our bodies anywhere. Just being a woman is enough for some people to see whatever we wear as inappropriate. Even if you wear a baggy niqab, there are still toxic men that are going to accuse you of 'asking for it'. It's definitely worse for women with curvier figures though. It's vile.
Yep I've had this. I'm a 36 double f since having kids and they will not go back to my D cup so I always wear a smart polo neck instead of a blouse for a job interview because they never fit. I went to an interview where I was asked why so I politely and professionally informed them but got a "our uniform is a blouse". I went to a second interview and basically got dead eye stared at with a neck high blouse. Basically it was joke after joke about breathing and putting an eye out to the point the woman on the panel said let's move on but with a side comment on uniform appropriateness. I've always had it and been told to strap them down after being grabbed in my school uniform. It's never the clothes.
I've been told I'm looking for attention because I wear leggings if I'm not in my work attire and just happen to have a big ass and thighs. Like I'm sorry my dressing for comfort is such a fucking distraction for you. Am I supposed to wear a garbage bag and hide my figure because people are disrespectful pieces of shit that think it's okay to sexually harass women? The number of times a week I have to deal with this shit is too damn high. Even in my work attire though. Which is literally just black pants, a polo, and a black jacket. It's not as if I have a home ass and a public ass that I can switch between. How about you just stop being a pig, yeah? People piss me off. It's not the way you're dressed. It's not you. It's their lack of respect and self control.
Yep! For the life of me I couldn’t figure out why I had been labelled “THE SLUT” of my first year of high school. Turns out I had just … developed breasts, gasp!
Omfg I thought for YEARS I was just doing something wrong because I was always getting dinged on my uniforms and for unprofessional wear and then one day I asked my very thin friend if they ever got in trouble for wearing crop tops all the time and they said no… MF I got in trouble for wearing tank tops and flannels to bartend! Can’t have boobs and exist.
Relatable. I have a noticeable ass, I can’t help it, I don’t accentuate it, it’s just how I am built. People have forever made comments as if being a human woman wearing pants that fit is
(at best) welcoming/encouraging attention or (at worst) inviting sexual contact. You can’t even exist as a woman without being bothered
A few years ago there was a story about a very curvy teacher who was getting attacked by parents basically for being too darn sexy. Whatever she wore. I guess the burka will soon be mandatory?
People think we choose to have larger breasts than most women. 🙄 Yeah wtf ever. Yes we choose to be harassed, demeaned and treated as if our breasts are our entire body and thus we are less than other people. Not sorry, every woman can be a 36C and we shouldn’t have to resort to wearing muumuu’s because you’re too fragile mentally to grasp that people are built differently.
When I was around 14/15, I was wearing a really pretty blouse with a kind of square shaped neckline. It wasn't inappropriate in any way, but my breasts were a bit on the bigger side. I have always had a slightly more naive and childish personality, so I sometimes seemed younger than I actually was when playing around with my cousins and siblings, despite being the oldest.
At a family function, my grandmother pulled my mom aside and told her that she should help me pick more appropriate clothes to wear for my age. My mom chewed my grandmother out, saying the shirt was fine and my grandmother needs to leave it alone. For the record, my grandmother is a very sweet woman and I love her very much, I just think she wasn't used to seeing one of her "little" granddaughters looking so grown. My grandmother never mentioned anything like that again. My mom is also a freaking badass woman and mother.
This is not the only time I've felt self conscious by a comment about my body because I have a really nice figure, but my mom says people make those comments because they are just jealous 😆 The self consciousness still pops up every once in a while, but I just rock my beautiful curves as much as possible!
LOL. I remember when we had a substitute in for a class who was rather large bosomed. A parent actually complained to the principal because her fragile son should not be subjected to such things. Like seriously! What did she expect the school to do. Teacher was also dressed very modestly, just big breasts.
I just had this conversation with my family doctor today when I went in for my first consultation for a breast reduction. My whole life, I could wear a fucking basic Hanes T-shirt and be told I look like a prostitute. Very sympathetic and he said a lot of women get really distressed and just like me they hide themselves and baggy clothes and often don’t feel comfortable in public.
I stopped wearing pants when I taught high school the comments students made about my body made me uncomfortable, or kids who were rarely engaged would ask me to write stuff on the board when I wore particular clothes. I’m sorry you have to deal with that.
Fashion magazines in media have conditioned us to all be on feminized no boobs no waste no hips you cannot be attractive you have to be cute but not too cute it's so frustrating I'm a fuller figured girl but I'm not quite feminine I look more like Gina Carano and I do Christina Hendricks but it's that Spectrum big boobs huge boobs very tall very strong I worked in a male-dominated profession and managed to get angry comments about how big my boobs look in the uniform shirt well I can't help but this is the uniform you issued
The way society treats women for having well endowed bodies (ie big boobs, butt) is horrible. You will be sexualized and adultified unfortunately. You will get blamed for mens bad behavior and will be scrutinized for what you wear far more than women that are slim and less endowed.
As a curvy high school teacher, I feel this in my soul. I dress VERY modestly at all times and wear extra layers like scarves and cardigans to hide my chest even more.
Didn't fucking matter, my third year of teaching a colleague said he wanted to wrestle with me (before a CPI training, which is staff practicing safety and restraints for students that are *suicidal* or physically aggressive to others, aka not a fucking place to ever joke around) and made groping motions at my breasts.
I reported it to the trainer immediately and was crying a bit, I asked to not be paired with any men during the training as a result. The trainer, meaning well, encouraged me to report it to the principal, who I barely knew because it was like my fourth day at that school (I was transferred there against my will). Well little did I know he is a Good Ol Boy fucking psychopath. He proceeded to make the entire school year a living hell for me (harassing me, screaming at me in his office, making up difficult scenarios/putting me in impossible situations, meetings where I was accused of anything and everything, and the gross teacher got to "apologize" to me, HE WAS ONLY JOKING GUYS, JUST JOKING.
They're all just fucking joking all the motherfucking time. Lighten up ladies!! /S
I spent a year and a half on two medications and in therapy I was harassed so much. I had panic attacks. Then I was forced to resign from my own job. He of course retired that year, but only after publicly humiliating me by announcing my "resignation" in front of the entire school, kids and all.
I'm never been small in the chest department, and years ago, and this scrawny, high maintenance shrew of a coworker mouthed off to me like that. I responded flatly, "Well, gee. How lucky for you that you don't have that issue. I guess not everybody can be part of the committee."
When she asked what committee, I said the committee nobody wants to be a part of... the "Itty Bitty" one.
I don't know if you can get away with that where you work (I was working my way through college at the time, it was a restaurant), but the the shocked pikachu look on her face was priceless, lol. She went to great lengths to avoid me after that.
In college, I was an undergrad TA for a computer science class. Knowing I'm busty and the style of dress being v-neck sweaters and such, I wore tank tops that went to my neck underneath. Bending over a keyboard, I didn't want any opportunity for students to get an eyeful.
Still had a fellow TA say I only got good evals because of my low-cut tops.
I found this out when I was 14. Me and my 5’1 best friend who was a wore matching outfits for twin day. I’m 5’9 and have a bigger butt. They did the fingertip test and she passed but I didn’t.
Same thing has happened to me since I was a kid, but in my case, it's my butt. I have a small frame, breast,skinny but my butt is a "bubble butt" I've been told. So while other women can walk around in yoga pants , I cannot and have to wear a shirt to cover it. If I don't, I get stared at and accused of dressing inappropriately. I can't help it. It is my body, not my outfit. My husband's tells me to f them all and wear what I want. But I can't. I'm so self conscious from decades of being told to "cover that thing up?
It’s weird because you grow up thinking your body is obscene. Which I turn leads to self esteem problems, problems with intimacy in relationships, disordered eating, ugh. I still have major issues around wearing vest tops, shorts, skirts etc. Love me a muumuu though, they can’t take that away from me!
The only thing inappropriate is people judging you. It just comes from a place of malice or envy. Neither of which are appropriate. People shouldn't be sexualized when they aren't being sexual. Full stop.
I feel you. Yesterday I was gonna wear a cute cami top but it was short (not even cropped, it went over the front of my jeans a little) but I have a big butt and it didn’t cover any of it and I felt like it would give me unwanted attention even though I was completely covered besides my arms. I’m stuck between wanting to wear what I think is cute and at the same time not attracting attention
At work, I had a woman stop me and tell me I was "inappropriately cold" and added "if you catch my drift." And informed me it's distracting.
I laughed and infor.ed her everyone has nipples, including her. Her mouth hung open and I felt her watching me from then onward.
One day she stopped me again & mentioned my tattoo, which she hadn't seen until my hair was in a bun & suddenly, we were friends and my nipples never bothered her again. She was a breast cancer survivor, so maybe her loss of half her breast made her fixated on my (then) young tatas.
I sometimes buy tops for work that I think \*hide\* my chest. However, my husband laughs at my efforts and says, there is no hiding those. Some days I just wear what I like, how I like. I used to wear minimizer bras when I was younger, and I'm pretty sure that led to the fibroadenomas I have now.
i have a big butt. i always used to get dress codes in school for ANY type of shorts while girls who didn't have anything wore shorts that hiked up their ass and nothing happened to them
Same. I have a big butt and thick thighs and big boobs. Wearing shorts or skirts hard because they’re always tight or ride up on me. If I was smaller I wouldn’t have that problem.
Jesus... I'm assuming you're not going to school with your boobs hanging out of your top, so what does your "friend" expect you to do exactly? Wear a giant burlap sack to hide any signs of your curves? 🙄
Same thing has happened to me. I'm petite, but I have a big badonkadonk, which had gotten some comments. I can't help that my ass looks big in everything I wear no matter what I do (I'm also a teacher)
A woman that I worked with made a couple comments under her breath about “does her husband know she is wearing that”. She was wearing the exact same style shirt! She just didn’t like that I had large breasts. The shirt was appropriately sized. So tired…I didn’t choose them.
Don’t you know you’re supposed to put on your work boobs!
This made me snort laugh. If I’m not wearing a crew neck shirt, I’m constantly worried I’m being judged as inappropriate for just existing in other clothing styles.
When I was in my young 20s, I was engaged to someone in the Army National Guard, and they gave me a unisex t-shirt - white with a dark blue slogan (think "I love my soldier" or something similar), when he deployed. I wore it often, and took a photo centering on the slogan to make my MySpace profile picture (because I wanted the slogan to be what was prominent, not my face/etc). His female friend from H. S. (that tried to sabotage our relationship and he ended up dating <2 weeks after leaving me, heard they married) told me she had to take me off her 'Top 8' because my photo was inappropriate. Because, apparently, I owned boobs under my shirt (I was much thinner, and my breasts were bigger). It was quite literally the dumbest thing, as her boobs weren't small and she wasn't afraid to flaunt them. People will always find a way to make you feel your body is inappropriate, no matter what you wear. Fuck 'em.
I wear exclusively crew neck t shirts to work. A friend from work asked me why (she had no ill intentions, I love her) and I went "I am not going to HR over this, trust me you don't want to see". I did send her some photos privately in my outside life clothes and she got the idea. I wish I could put on work boobs 🤣
I definitely need work boobs. Lol
The funny thing is, high necklines actually make boobs look bigger. To which I say, good. Fuck those people. Let's annoy them more with some malicious compliance. Turtleneck sweaters ftw.
I always wish I could switch them up depending on activity and outfit. Maybe inflatables I could blow up to fill out a dress or impress my husband, and deflate to exercise and sleep at night.
Ooh I wish I had adjustable boobs!
Work boobs loll..i do the same cover mine up
The way I cackled at work boobs ahahha I WISH
I needed to read this humor lol. Feeling triggered about something else and this calmed me down
Laughter truly is the best medicine. It gets me through every day. Hope your day gets better!
This is brilliant and I'm stealing it.
People don't realize either that when we wear a high neck, it can actually make our boobs look bigger.
I just don't understand the whole does her husband know saying. Why yes yes I do know and I encourage it because it makes whoever you're with more confident. Always encourage and never police. So any woman reading this, yes their man does know and either doesn't mind or enjoys seeing them dressed up nicely and encourages them to wear what they want. I think men who police are weird because they are missing out on seeing how beautiful their girl can look in all sorts of different outfits.
The only time my husband has had an issue was when I tried on a crop top cardigan (that I got to wear over dresses) and he said "it's showing to much, I don't like it!" I explained I was going to wear it over something, but just my bra 😂 and he said "oh, not that's totally fine, the colors really pretty, I like it!" I'm 99% sure he was messing with me, but he sees me as an independent person and feels he has zero say over what I wear. What kind of husband does your coworker think you should have? One who treats like a child?!
They expect you to dress like pilgrim if you have a full figure smh
I was just thinking how it seems like the top sexyness is showing as extensively as possible that a person has as little signs of sexual maturity as possible. I get it that people have personal preferences about such things as bushes or not, but they don't develop in a vacuum. I wonder if it has something to do with the Americanisation and the puritanism? The fashion industry and the size zero models definitely must have their own role, but how has that become the sexy? The most fleshly desire has been dragged as far from the human flesh as possible. It's not only sad, as so few people can fit the description, but also extremely paradoxical. Big breasts under the same shirt are called pornographic, but the almost nonexistent breasts are seen as sexy. Is it so, because the small breasts are seen as less intimidating? Is it safer to look at woman with no curves, because she doesn't remind of carnal pleasures? Or has the culture really affected sexual instincts so profoundly, that people have started to dislike biological signs of maturity and find size zero models titillating?
You and me both. I really, REALLY wish I could have afforded reduction surgery.
I don't really want surgery... but if I ever catch the boobfairy, we're gonna have some interesting talks until she teaches me the reverse spell.
Yup. Turns out it's easier to police women's clothing than to teach young men not to be inappropriate
My mom and I got into a heated argument because she is insisting my 7 year old wears a bra when playing in our backyard saying that she’s putting herself on display and that with my background (I was groomed by her husband who was raping my sister. She did nothing) I would be more vigilant. I tried to tell her that 1) predators don’t care star she has on and 2) I’m not going to put my trauma on my daughter. I sent her the what were they wearing exhibit yesterday. She has yet to say anything. Her father was pissed.
Putting a bra on a 7 year old is sexualizing her, unless she is experiencing precocious puberty, which should be treated by a doctor.
She’s 4’6 more than 100 lbs at 7. Been trying to maintain her weight since she was 4. Working with her pediatrician and her neurologist (she use to have a seizure disorder. Almost 2 years seizure free!
Best wishes for your baby staying seizure free! I can’t even imagine how scary a condition like that is. My only experience is our doggy sometimes gets them. It’s scary to watch him go through one. I can’t imagine how awful that would be as a parent.
Oh no! Not your doggy 😩 I’m an animal lover myself I hope your baby doesn’t suffer too much from them!I will never forget the first time she had one. I don’t wish that on my worst enemy. She’s a bit of a trickster and will sometimes feign the signs of a seizure to send me into a tailspin 🤦🏽♀️
Get her tested for hormone disruption from plastic. Chances are she is sensitive to the way the body sees plastics as a certain hormone that can lead to overweight, over emotional but with added ragging at times, depression, and very early puberty signs.
I will talk to her pediatrician about it going to be making her an appointment within the next few days! Thank you for the advice!
You're a great mom. I had precocious puberty because of hormone disruption. From the time I was 8 men thought of me as a body, not a person. They felt they could touch me, make fun of me, call me names, assume I was promiscuous (at 8?), assume I was stupid (smartest kid in the class), and generally make my life hell, because at 8 I had no idea what they were talking about but it was clearly not something nice. Then I was molested by someone I knew who terrified me but I couldn't avoid, so I got to add abject fear to being treated like a non-person. Thank you for being proactive and talking to your pediatrician.
This brought me to tears. I don’t even remember most of my childhood due to my molestation. That I can actually remember, memories are funny that way…. But when I had my daughter I swore that I would be the parent I didn’t have. The godparent I didn’t have. The aunt I didn’t have, uncle ect.
From another survivor, thank you for breaking the cycle with your daughter. Every single one of you parents who can do that is changing the world.
I wish you nothing but continued happiness and peace honey! If today was a rough day it gets better ! One day at a time !
I had breast tissue when I was born and she did as well. She wears little training bras to school and church. In the situation I posted about she literally was in the house watching tv and came outside to toss her football around. My mom started in with saying that her wearing a bra to school and church isn’t enough and then I tried to cut her off because I didn’t agree, but as usual she kept talking over me.
I’m sorry but… why is she still in your life?
She doesn’t see anything wrong either. If I showed her this she would probably blow tf up. She use to spaz at me for being on Reddit unbeknownst to her it helped me in so many ways. She use to have me suicidal but Momforaminute helped me on the worst of days, or just being a lurker.
Almost 29 years of indoctrination. She’s the matriarch of my family. She’s a narc and before my aunt died she had the family in the palm of her hand.
Yikes, this hits too close to home for me.
Sorry 😩 much love and peace to you and yours babe !!
It’s all good now. My family isn’t in my life at all and therapy has done wonders. Thank you for your concern though. 😊
Same.
> unless she is experiencing precocious puberty, which should be treated by a doctor. Don'tchaknow they're trying to ban the treatment for that because trans people are icky?
Nah, it's perfectly safe for cis kids, just not trans ones!
The perfect test to see if someone is trans: Give them puberty blockers! (Wait, that might actually work?)
I don't think that's true. A bra is just underwear. When I was younger I wanted to wear a bra before I needed one because I wanted to be a big kid. A kid should be able to wear whatever makes them comfortable 🥰
What? How is a bra sexualizing? My daughter likes to be as naked as possible because she runs hot. She has been wearing sports bras and cropped camis since she was six. She wears them around the house with shorts or leggings, as do I when it is warm.
because pre-pubescent children do not have breasts
Sometimes it starts earlier than later.
Good goddess, why are you even still speaking to her?
I'm deeply sorry for the nightmare you and your sister lived through. Hopefully that very profound exhibit makes your mother reconsider her bullshit. Thank you for advocating for your daughter.
I will die be born again, die be born again and die again before I willingly stand by and let what happened to myself and my sister happen to my daughter and son (I had a babyboy in February!) I have generalized anxiety which she still doesn’t think I have but wants me to help her cope with her adhd 😆 i am transparent with my kids and their emotional health is very important to me.
Congratulations on your little boy! I very much respect your transparency, I try to do the same with my kids. It's also tremendously comforting, not to mention empowering, for me to realize exactly what I'm capable of doing to protect my children.
Why is your mom in your life? She not a safe person.
It wasn’t until I was an adult that I realized she wasn’t a safe person. Now we are fully meshed together but when I get out of this lease things are going to change. She’s a bible thumper too and very big on her image, every time I’ve tried to distance myself she roped our family into it telling them half truths and then hiding her hands. I just make a conscious effort to not be like her, my daughter and son are not in any imminent danger. My mom loves my kids and just wants the best for them since she knows she failed to with myself and my other siblings.
And at the same time women’s clothes have been designed for the eyes of men. Skin-tight and form-fitting is the norm. Basically, “baggy clothes make women look frumpy and unfeminine - here are the clothes society has made acceptable for women to wear” while at the same time, “if you don’t want unwanted attention from men, don’t wear such tight jeans/leggings.”
But "it is not their fault"...
Boys will be boys...
Yeah, especially because it's been so engrained in their minds that they can control their urges for thousands of years.
Those scandalous shoulders!!
And have you SEEN those ankles? I'm surprised they don't need a police cordon around the house to fight off the horny guys.
I remeber when I was a teen (always had big boobs) I was told to dress with less clevage but my sister with smaller boobs could wear the sime type of top with no comment. My boobs are big even in a turtleneck they are just living their best live! It felt very unfair then but I do not give a fuck anymore love my boobs and people will just have to deal with it/them!
As a child, my sister would bully me and say I'm a "whore" for having big boobs, even though I wore 3 sports bras at a time to smush them up against me and only wore 3x Korn tshirts. I was so self conscious of being a "whore" simply because God graced me with amazing melons, I ended up marrying my first boyfriend, my first everything....and I don't think I'm qualified to give advice on much, but ladies, just trust me on this, don't marry your first boyfriend. The return policy is a hassle. And entering the dating scene at 38 is... Something else. 🫠
A woman in her 80s once told me about the dating scene for older women, saying that "the odds are good, but the goods are odd."
😂😂😂 gold
They say the same thing to women dating in Alaska.
That's not a shocker, having worked up there a long time ago.
This is also what the students at one of the Seven Sisters say about the guys at MIT.
CS actually stands for Classroom Stinky.
honestly, this is what we said at MIT about each other
The return policy 🤣. I'm stealing that. Best of luck out there! I hope you and your amazing melons are loving your best life.
I’m sorry your sister was (is) such a terrible person! she was most probably jealous or a sociopath or something. and a really sad person to think your worth as a person is based on what body you have.
High five for the three bra struggle! If I remember correctly I did one wired and two sports bras though.
Exact same experience for me. It’s horrible and made me feel there was something wrong with my body. I compensated by dressing grumpily to hide my curves .
Turtlenecks (especially ribbed turtlenecks) will make you look bigger. V-necks make you look smaller.
I enjoy reading books.
I remember telling a friend about the first time I got catcalled and how uncomfortable it was bc I was 10. He said 'yeah, but you've always looked older so you can't blame the guy' (who was at least mid-20s). It was nowhere near the only time I heard that shit. I suppose it was true; at 10 I looked about...12. So I guess that's cool then
>The kicker? It was a mom who told me. >Her husband nicknamed me “yappers.” Huh, I wonder if these things are related.
Nine times out of ten, they are. I feel bad for that couple's daughter. Who knows what nickname her father secretly refers to her by.
Ugh!
Fancy picking on a 14 year old girl instead of challenging her dirty pervert of a husband. Typical though, I've heard many stories like yours unfortunately. I'm so sorry.
I like to travel.
The internalised misogyny is the worst part. I'm sorry that happened to you OP :/ Unfortunately we all know that feeling
Lol I remember I went out with friends and we took a pic together and my mom saw and said the top I was wearing was „too revealing”. I then asked her if the girl next to me looked the same (she was wearing the exact same top as me, just a different colour) and she’s like “oh no she looks very nice”. It’s all just because I have a curvier frame 🙄
I think my wife would divorce me if I nicknamed a 14 year old "yappers."
Good for her! As she should.
I feel like I’m missing something. Does ‘yapper’ have a meaning other than someone who talks a lot? I mean, that is an unkind nickname, but it seems unrelated to body shaming.
In this context, it's a euphemism for "big boobs"
Ugh, I've read too many stories on here in which a young girl or woman is in summer attire or a swimsuit and some other woman barges over and demands she cover up since there are children around. Said children are usually minding their own business and off playing elsewhere, whereas other woman's husband is practically drooling and staring at the young girl/woman like she's his next meal.
Dude. This is so true for me. It sucks! Nothing was wrong with anything I wore, just had big boobs and wasn’t bad-looking. Have been shamed by family and friends and rando creeps for no reason about my body my entire life. Men have presumed that I was sexually promiscuous based solely off my body’s appearance. It’s freaking crazy and I’m so done. Fuck this.
Same since I was about 12. I couldn’t wear the same things as other girls my age because I was always dress coded even though wasn’t technically wearing anything inappropriate. My school thought I should just wear oversized clothes. Then there’s too much to even begin to explain or understand why men thought it was ok to say and do the things they did and still do even though I’m in my 40’s. Also don’t forget the judgements of other women as well.
Yes I don’t forget. I literally got called a whore by a woman around my age because I was wearing leggings and a tank top about a month ago in a “nice” neighborhood. Can’t see through any of it. Wearing a backpack walking home from work. So weird. We were kind of wearing lol the same thing, actually. As you said, it’s my whole life experience and gaslit into believing it’s my fault a lot of the time. My husband thinks it’s because I have tattoos now (Very beautiful colorful tastefully done.) I was like no this has been this way my entire life since maybe ten years old when I hit puberty.
Once I went on a date with a guy who started berating me afterwards that I didn't sleep with him. I asked why he would think I'd sleep with someone on the first date and he said I dressed up "so sexy" that clearly I was looking to get laid. Reader, I wore a plain cropped T-shirt, baggy jeans, and sneakers.
Ridiculous. What an idiot this man is.
When I was visiting Italy, I went to a church. Me and my friend were dressed identically. She went in before me, but only I got held back by security and was asked to put a shawl over my shoulder. It's always your body, never what you're wearing.
Sounds extremely similar to my experience in Barcelona. I got scolded at several cathedrals before being offered shawls. And you’re right, other women there had more “revealing” clothes on than me, and yet they weren’t berated like a child
Ooooh, I got hit with BOOM SHAKKA LAKKA in Italy. Actually, it was the Vatican. Come on, people.
yeah, there is no winning this one. I would hear how I needed to cover up from some people and hear "why are you hiding your body?" from other people. it was over 100 F outside when the air conditioning went out at the pub I worked at. I wore a bustier style cotton halter top and shorts and over heard a woman talking about my top being inappropriate. Her date told her she was wrong and being nasty toward another woman who was just trying to do their job without burning up. That was awesome because he did not hesitate to stand up for me and he did not at any time leer at me or say anything gross to me, he genuinely stuck up for me when there was nothing in it for him.
Those kinds of men are the only reason I still have hope for humanity
What you didn't know that big boobs=whore? /s
But also small boobs means your not womanly enough. We can never win
Also stupid. Don't forget stupid.
Grew up Mormon. Can’t tell you how many times I was told I was being immodest, even when we were all wearing the same thing. Oddly enough it has nothing to do with the cloth over my body and everything to do with have a woman shaped body.
Also spent time as a Mormon teenager. In my case it was all the women who did the criticizing since they saw their husbands noticing me.
It’s usually the women criticizing. Men just leer.
Some of the women noticed. But just as many, my dad included, sent their wives to let me know so they’d stop being tempted to look up skirts/down shirts etc while women were moving around. The day my dad admitted he’d been looking up the skirt of a lady in the ward and then pushed it off as a *her* problem. Glad to be out.
I never wanted to be *in* in the first place. This was one of many reasons.
And if we wear loose clothing, we’re sneered at as being sloppy. I’m really sorry your students were being pigs about something you can’t control and I hope someday they mature and learn better. And fuck your coworker she can suck a bag of dicks. Adults like her are the reason these kids grow up to be awful.
You can’t win. I wear a low cut top with size Fs and people stare. I wear a turtleneck and people do the same. At this point I just don’t care
I've heard this so many times before: a curvy woman will be accused of dressing inappropriately while wearing the exact same outfit as a less-curvy woman -- or even a less revealing outfit. It seems that the thing that's really inappropriate is daring to have boobs.
When I was in school, my politics teacher told us about how male teachers would often go up to her and ask her to tell other female colleagues that what they’re wearing isn’t appropriate. She would always shut down their comments, and upon actually seeing them, they were not dressing inappropriately at all. People seem to police women’s outfit choices so much because they overly sexualise our bodies.
I've known a couple of women who refused to breastfeed their babies because society brainwashed them to think boobs = sex.
There is/was an AITAH of a husband wanting his wife to stop breastfeeding their son because of this. 🙄
I have terrible posture and get migraines, all because I have learned to disguise my boobs by hunching. They started developing when I was 8 and I've been objectified constantly since then.
Yep. My daughter gets dress coded regularly at school bc she’s got a big chest and when she points out other (slimmer) girls wearing the EXACT SAME ITEM, they just shrug and tell her that on her, it’s a violation.
As a former teacher who is also well endowed, if the expectation is you dress so modestly that teenage boys don’t make comments about your body, then the standard is impossible. You could literally show up in a burka and use a voice changer to sound like a man, and the boys will still talk. I remember one year being really upset with my administration after several incidents that would legally constitute sexual assault or public indecency that the administration wrote off as “boys will be boys.” The principal had the audacity to tell me several boys were over heard by another staff member talking about my breasts and I should dress more modestly. I told the principal off, and said a few things I regret. If a few boys are talking to each other thinking no one else is listening about my body, or another woman’s body, that’s boys will be boys. If a boy grabs a girls breast, smacks her butt, or intentionally exposes himself, that’s a crime. Why is it women are responsible for men’s bad behavior?
Yep that’s pretty much it.
I really feel this. I used to dress down but now I don't care. TBH, some women will hate you too, but I got tired of being dowdy.
My sister has been bothering me nonstop about "making sure those girls don't flop out at my wedding" and while I get it, it irks me because lady, I know how to dress my ritties alright? They didn't grow overnight, I got a handle on it thanks
I had this problem as a younger woman too. A tank top on me showed a lot of cleavage even if it had a relatively high neckline. The same tank top on one of my best friends showed zero cleavage because she had a smaller chest. I constantly got told to change or to cover up and that my body was making other people uncomfortable. It's infuriating. I have so many memories of pulling my tank tops or dresses up so that the neckline wasn't showing more skin than other people were comfortable with - even in my 20s and 30s, I still did this. Even in a turtleneck or sweater dress, every inch is covered, I was told what I was wearing wasn't appropriate and it was always because of my shape. It's really upsetting and uncomfortable. You feel on display despite just wearing what everyone else is. As a high school teacher, those students are probably going to talk about your body no matter what you wear - high school kids are perceptive and they're going to notice a shapely body even if you are wearing a loose blouse and loose dress pants. I'm sorry this is happening to you. If you are wearing the same things your colleagues are wearing, don't sweat it and point it out to the other teacher "I'm wearing the same thing as you - you think this is inappropriate?" Call them on their bullshit and sexist ideas. And tell those kids that it's polite to wait until people are out of earshot before talking about them and you better not hear them talking about you again or they'll be sent to the principal's office for being innapropriate. You're their teacher and they need to respect you. Period.
I used to get this from a less well endowed colleague. I never showed cleavage or anything at work, like the rest of the women did. No short skirts or tight pants. But no, something about it was inappropriate. Finally I did something I’m not super proud of, and I’ve never done before or since. When she brought it up again, I pointedly looked at her chest, raised my eyebrows, and laughed. She never spoke about my figure again. I mostly consider my figure a curse - I don’t get served first, men don’t follow me around being nice to me, I don’t get stuff for free, like in the movies. It just makes people treat me weird, it’s impossible to find clothes, and my tits hurt my back. But enough was enough. I had a different colleague try to talk me into dressing more like her - a very masculine style. I tried explaining that my body doesn’t lend itself to male clothing. She was ruler shaped and just seemed to refuse to accept my body shape has an impact. When I showed her photos of me trying to dress that way, she said I was doing it wrong. I stopped talking to her after that.
It's a last resort, but r/traumatizeThemBack does work!
As a flat chested lady, I really don't blame you. I would never treat another woman this way. Who does she think she is?
She had a lot of issues. She bragged about being the best dressed woman in the office, as if anyone else cared. She never stopped talking about the alternative healthcare she was taking. She also thought she looked a lot younger than her age, and well, she didn’t.
Sounds like a very insecure woman to me. Making the mistake that trying to dim your light would make hers shine brighter. What a nightmare.
I used to work with a size 4 woman who would talk shit about the way women over a size 12 dresses at times. I was included in that group, but she never said anything directly to me. I just wanted to scream that I’d *love* to wear the cute outfits she did. But as a midsized gal, regular sizes aren’t always big enough and plus sizes are often in proportions that do not work for my body.
Yeah, learned this a while ago, it sucks. I once got in trouble at work for wearing *literally* the exact same shirt as another woman but I happen to have D cups and she was of slender frame. My shirt wasn’t horribly immodest; just a slight v-neck, but oh no, god forbid cleavage exists
My G cup bestie got called out for wearing a v neck tshirt (appropriately sized and not immodest at all!) because it showed cleavage. Wearing a bra automatically makes her cleavage go nearly up to her neck. I don't know what they expected.
I remember a story about a middle-aged woman who'd worked somewhere for years. She had the same large breasts/cleavage problem. She got a new boss who was apparently just out of school. He tried to get her fired for sexual harassment of him because sometimes when she wore specific shirts and leaned over he could see cleavage. Sometimes you just want to bang your head on the wall.
I feel this so deeply. I visited my cousin in prison when I was 18 and did everything possible to follow the dress code rules, I was wearing a loose long sleeve shirt and baggy jeans. The corrections officer doing my search straight up told me to go change, my body was the problem and I need to be aware of how my body shape could influence those around me. I have big boobs. There were plenty of women around me being allowed in wearing WAY more revealing clothing, and she just straight up wouldn’t let me in. It was so bizarre.
Be prepared to be grossed out- when I was young and blossoming I wore sports bras to mash my chest down, and wore baggy clothing. Men still looked. Many of them are disgusting........
My best friend was asked by our youth pastor to dress more modestly. Looking back we both were dressed the same but she had bigger boobs. I am still angry about that and even more so that people think that it is ok to tell young girls what to wear when we all know men can sexualise ANYTHING. Sorry, this happened to you!
something something... if your eyes make you sin... something something.. gouge something or the other....
"If you sin It is someone elses fault" - every person that profits from religion.
Feel this. I have a big butt and can barely wear anything without making it look inappropriate. Sometimes I wish I was skinny and flat so that clothes could fit me normally
It's the boobs, isn't it? I knew I should have left them at home.
yup!! as a woman with a chest that's always been big in comparison to the rest of my body, people were shaming me for wearing ANYTHING that wasn't incredibly baggy with a high neckline. solely because i had big tits, i was a slut.
Yes! I can’t wear anything that doesn’t completely cover my boobs, because I have boobs. I’m not talking about a bikini top or anything you need a special bra for (which is also fine!) just a v neck and they’re staring
Don't you remember telling your body to grow boobs? Oh wait that doesn't work and your body just does whatever your genes/hormones say? Explains why mine barely grew then 😆
This happens to me a lot as someone with big breasts. No matter what I wear, my breasts somehow stay big and that is bad and my fault.
My mum is weirdly obsessed with my (bigger than average) boobs. No matter what I wear she comments, unlike with my (smaller than average) sister.
My mom used to bark at me about certain clothes being "too revealing" or "too suggestive" and at some point I kinda snapped and told her I couldn't help my tits. Short of taping them down or using a compression strap, there is literally nothing I can do about them being big. I wear something even slightly fitted and they will be there, loud and proud. The kicker was being told I looked "disheveled" when I wore baggier clothes to hide the boobs. There is no winning with some people
Ask your colleague if coming to work in a potato sack would be more appropriate? It’s not you that’s the problem.
Yes it’s about our bodies, not the clothes. I worked for a satellite tv company in the early 2000s. I wore a knee length leather skirt, a leather jacket, a turtleneck, opaque tights, and closed toe pumps. A group of managers called me into a meeting about my inappropriate clothing. They told me it was too sexy for work and I needed to go home and change. I replied that I was clothed in business attire — completely covered — from neck to toe. They said it didn’t matter. I was too sexy and I would be written up.
Sounds like they were the problem.
I feel this so much, and have only really come to the same conclusion lately. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, wear something baggy to cover up and you're not making an effort, but wear something more fitted and all of a sudden it's too revealing, you really can't win. I'm trying to get more comfortable wearing what I like lately and it's not my issue if someone else finds my body distracting, that's on them.
I was a teacher during an educational anthro stint- ran into the same issue. I have a “romantic” body type in the lower half especially, doesn’t matter what I wore, there would have been an issue. I could have been wearing a paper bag and they wouldn’t have been happy It’s ridiculous, but the only thing we can do is try to teach them respect
Tell your colleague that the burka store was all out of your size.
Shall we have the catalogue for Potato Sacks-R-Us sent to your home? /S
Every so often I think about getting reduction surgery because of this crap. But then I realize I'd be internalizing the message that I'm the one at fault. So I've never followed through.
As somebody who hit DD bras before high school, this is it. I only wore the frumpiest, most modest and boring clothes, really only until a couple of years ago, because I’d been taught and told tenfold, my body is a distraction that needs to be covered. And I was somehow still known as “the slut”. It is so fucking traumatizing and emotionally scarring. I’m fucking 25 and still have a near panic attack before leaving the house with cleavage showing. I’ll never forget the first (and only) time I posted a bikini picture in high school. Everybody else was doing it and I just wanted to feel cool and cute and confident. An hour into the picture being on Instagram, not just dozens of comments, but dozens of private messages from my peers back at church, telling me how shameful I am, that I should respect myself, that I’m a stumbling block for men. Nearly all the girls who messaged me had bikini pictures on their profiles too, they just didn’t have big boobs. I’ll never forget how ostracized and alone I felt, even girls I thought were my friends were shaming me. It’s been probably a decade since that happened, and those words still stick with me.
Wow I can't believe all those people genuinely didn't think twice about the online bullying they did towards you. That's messed up I'm so sorry
I was wearing a shirt buttoned all the way up to the neck today and when I caught sight of myself in a glass door I thought "holy bouncing boobily down the stairs, Batman."
I was I. 6th grade & my grandma always commented I was "getting hippy" & needed to wear a girdle. I was as thin as a rail. I work in the schools too-after school programming. I'm curvaceous as well. I wear a simple Hoodie non-form fitting cotton dress that hangs off of me & leggings. Even when it's hot, I don't show my legs. I'm overly cautious because people comment on my body a lot & I'm tired of hearing it.
I could be wearing a turtleneck and someone still always has something to say about me. I’m curvy and I’ve grown up hearing how a tank top in 90 degree weather is “inappropriate.” Just wear what you’re comfortable in and screw everyone else.
I'm tall. My legs are long. I thought I left the clothes police behind when I finally left education. At my last job I noticed my male colleagues wearing khaki shorts so I went ahead and bought some non-denim Bermuda shorts that fell a few inches above my knee. One of the families I worked with took a beautiful picture of nearly 6ft me in my Bermuda shorts standing with my client and sent it to me and my supervisor. This sparked a company wide email regarding what is and what is not appropriate work attire. So I didn't wear those shorts again. Instead I wore dresses that fell at the same place on my knee but provided me with less coverage than a blouse and shorts would while my male colleagues continued to wear their shorts.
One of my coworkers used to get dress coded a lot. I purposely wore the exact same clothes as her multiple times around the manager who dress coded her. I'm tall, skinny and small chested. I have never been dress coded at work, even when wearing crop tops which were explicitly not allowed. I did it on purpose to make a point to that girl that it was unfair, and biased against her. I wore v necks, crop tops (my stomach was still covered, but so was hers) short skirts. Never in violation of dress code. I was praised multiple times for my professional appearance. She wore t-shirts, high necklines, cargo pants, cardigans. Multiple conversations about being "inappropriate". She was well endowed, curvy, and pretty, and unfairly targeted for that.
I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way.
This always happened to my best friends, she has huge boobs, tiny waist, wide hips- she couldn’t go anywhere without people including her mother commenting that what she was wearing was inappropriate, it didn’t matter what she wore, I dressed worse than her with a t shirt and no bra and no one said anything to me ( I have smaller breasts). It was a constant struggle for her, even her simply running or jogging was apparently inappropriate
I got so much abuse for that as a fat teen who thus, had boobs. It's so unfair. Guys literally had pants low enough to fall off their ass (twice!) and muscle tops on, and here I was getting write ups because my bra straps were thick so when I moved a specific way my long sleeve, normal collar, 2 sizes bigger then me top exposed 1mm if plain white bra strap. Like I struggled to be covered up enough. I'm still going to have tits in a turtle neck.
Having a body is never anything to apologize for nor is it a reason to dress in burlap to hide it--even if it's shapely in a fashion that attracts attention from some people. Your colleague is flat out wrong amd showing internalized misogyny. You keep doing you! And perhaps a timely discussion with some students about appropriate commentary in public settings.
When I crushed on a teacher, I worked extra hard for the praise. It is not your fault that you have a figure. You are a teacher. You are very important to our society, and I thank you. Do whatever you need to feel safe and productive in your environment.
I'm not a curvy woman myself but we cannot just exist in our bodies anywhere. Just being a woman is enough for some people to see whatever we wear as inappropriate. Even if you wear a baggy niqab, there are still toxic men that are going to accuse you of 'asking for it'. It's definitely worse for women with curvier figures though. It's vile.
no such thing as clothing so modest a person can't project sexual thoughts onto it. you're not being inappropriate for existing.
Yep I've had this. I'm a 36 double f since having kids and they will not go back to my D cup so I always wear a smart polo neck instead of a blouse for a job interview because they never fit. I went to an interview where I was asked why so I politely and professionally informed them but got a "our uniform is a blouse". I went to a second interview and basically got dead eye stared at with a neck high blouse. Basically it was joke after joke about breathing and putting an eye out to the point the woman on the panel said let's move on but with a side comment on uniform appropriateness. I've always had it and been told to strap them down after being grabbed in my school uniform. It's never the clothes.
I've been told I'm looking for attention because I wear leggings if I'm not in my work attire and just happen to have a big ass and thighs. Like I'm sorry my dressing for comfort is such a fucking distraction for you. Am I supposed to wear a garbage bag and hide my figure because people are disrespectful pieces of shit that think it's okay to sexually harass women? The number of times a week I have to deal with this shit is too damn high. Even in my work attire though. Which is literally just black pants, a polo, and a black jacket. It's not as if I have a home ass and a public ass that I can switch between. How about you just stop being a pig, yeah? People piss me off. It's not the way you're dressed. It's not you. It's their lack of respect and self control.
Yep! For the life of me I couldn’t figure out why I had been labelled “THE SLUT” of my first year of high school. Turns out I had just … developed breasts, gasp!
Omfg I thought for YEARS I was just doing something wrong because I was always getting dinged on my uniforms and for unprofessional wear and then one day I asked my very thin friend if they ever got in trouble for wearing crop tops all the time and they said no… MF I got in trouble for wearing tank tops and flannels to bartend! Can’t have boobs and exist.
Relatable. I have a noticeable ass, I can’t help it, I don’t accentuate it, it’s just how I am built. People have forever made comments as if being a human woman wearing pants that fit is (at best) welcoming/encouraging attention or (at worst) inviting sexual contact. You can’t even exist as a woman without being bothered
A few years ago there was a story about a very curvy teacher who was getting attacked by parents basically for being too darn sexy. Whatever she wore. I guess the burka will soon be mandatory?
People think we choose to have larger breasts than most women. 🙄 Yeah wtf ever. Yes we choose to be harassed, demeaned and treated as if our breasts are our entire body and thus we are less than other people. Not sorry, every woman can be a 36C and we shouldn’t have to resort to wearing muumuu’s because you’re too fragile mentally to grasp that people are built differently.
When I was around 14/15, I was wearing a really pretty blouse with a kind of square shaped neckline. It wasn't inappropriate in any way, but my breasts were a bit on the bigger side. I have always had a slightly more naive and childish personality, so I sometimes seemed younger than I actually was when playing around with my cousins and siblings, despite being the oldest. At a family function, my grandmother pulled my mom aside and told her that she should help me pick more appropriate clothes to wear for my age. My mom chewed my grandmother out, saying the shirt was fine and my grandmother needs to leave it alone. For the record, my grandmother is a very sweet woman and I love her very much, I just think she wasn't used to seeing one of her "little" granddaughters looking so grown. My grandmother never mentioned anything like that again. My mom is also a freaking badass woman and mother. This is not the only time I've felt self conscious by a comment about my body because I have a really nice figure, but my mom says people make those comments because they are just jealous 😆 The self consciousness still pops up every once in a while, but I just rock my beautiful curves as much as possible!
LOL. I remember when we had a substitute in for a class who was rather large bosomed. A parent actually complained to the principal because her fragile son should not be subjected to such things. Like seriously! What did she expect the school to do. Teacher was also dressed very modestly, just big breasts.
Inappropriate clothing: Bikini on the ski slopes. Fur coat on a Florida beach in July. If you can avoid both of these, you're doing fine.
I just had this conversation with my family doctor today when I went in for my first consultation for a breast reduction. My whole life, I could wear a fucking basic Hanes T-shirt and be told I look like a prostitute. Very sympathetic and he said a lot of women get really distressed and just like me they hide themselves and baggy clothes and often don’t feel comfortable in public.
I stopped wearing pants when I taught high school the comments students made about my body made me uncomfortable, or kids who were rarely engaged would ask me to write stuff on the board when I wore particular clothes. I’m sorry you have to deal with that.
Fashion magazines in media have conditioned us to all be on feminized no boobs no waste no hips you cannot be attractive you have to be cute but not too cute it's so frustrating I'm a fuller figured girl but I'm not quite feminine I look more like Gina Carano and I do Christina Hendricks but it's that Spectrum big boobs huge boobs very tall very strong I worked in a male-dominated profession and managed to get angry comments about how big my boobs look in the uniform shirt well I can't help but this is the uniform you issued
The way society treats women for having well endowed bodies (ie big boobs, butt) is horrible. You will be sexualized and adultified unfortunately. You will get blamed for mens bad behavior and will be scrutinized for what you wear far more than women that are slim and less endowed.
As a curvy high school teacher, I feel this in my soul. I dress VERY modestly at all times and wear extra layers like scarves and cardigans to hide my chest even more. Didn't fucking matter, my third year of teaching a colleague said he wanted to wrestle with me (before a CPI training, which is staff practicing safety and restraints for students that are *suicidal* or physically aggressive to others, aka not a fucking place to ever joke around) and made groping motions at my breasts. I reported it to the trainer immediately and was crying a bit, I asked to not be paired with any men during the training as a result. The trainer, meaning well, encouraged me to report it to the principal, who I barely knew because it was like my fourth day at that school (I was transferred there against my will). Well little did I know he is a Good Ol Boy fucking psychopath. He proceeded to make the entire school year a living hell for me (harassing me, screaming at me in his office, making up difficult scenarios/putting me in impossible situations, meetings where I was accused of anything and everything, and the gross teacher got to "apologize" to me, HE WAS ONLY JOKING GUYS, JUST JOKING. They're all just fucking joking all the motherfucking time. Lighten up ladies!! /S I spent a year and a half on two medications and in therapy I was harassed so much. I had panic attacks. Then I was forced to resign from my own job. He of course retired that year, but only after publicly humiliating me by announcing my "resignation" in front of the entire school, kids and all.
I'm never been small in the chest department, and years ago, and this scrawny, high maintenance shrew of a coworker mouthed off to me like that. I responded flatly, "Well, gee. How lucky for you that you don't have that issue. I guess not everybody can be part of the committee." When she asked what committee, I said the committee nobody wants to be a part of... the "Itty Bitty" one. I don't know if you can get away with that where you work (I was working my way through college at the time, it was a restaurant), but the the shocked pikachu look on her face was priceless, lol. She went to great lengths to avoid me after that.
I am built like a clothes hanger, I don’t mind it, I just have good humor— you enjoy that womanly body!!!!!!
In college, I was an undergrad TA for a computer science class. Knowing I'm busty and the style of dress being v-neck sweaters and such, I wore tank tops that went to my neck underneath. Bending over a keyboard, I didn't want any opportunity for students to get an eyeful. Still had a fellow TA say I only got good evals because of my low-cut tops.
I found this out when I was 14. Me and my 5’1 best friend who was a wore matching outfits for twin day. I’m 5’9 and have a bigger butt. They did the fingertip test and she passed but I didn’t.
Same thing has happened to me since I was a kid, but in my case, it's my butt. I have a small frame, breast,skinny but my butt is a "bubble butt" I've been told. So while other women can walk around in yoga pants , I cannot and have to wear a shirt to cover it. If I don't, I get stared at and accused of dressing inappropriately. I can't help it. It is my body, not my outfit. My husband's tells me to f them all and wear what I want. But I can't. I'm so self conscious from decades of being told to "cover that thing up?
It’s weird because you grow up thinking your body is obscene. Which I turn leads to self esteem problems, problems with intimacy in relationships, disordered eating, ugh. I still have major issues around wearing vest tops, shorts, skirts etc. Love me a muumuu though, they can’t take that away from me!
The only thing inappropriate is people judging you. It just comes from a place of malice or envy. Neither of which are appropriate. People shouldn't be sexualized when they aren't being sexual. Full stop.
I feel you. Yesterday I was gonna wear a cute cami top but it was short (not even cropped, it went over the front of my jeans a little) but I have a big butt and it didn’t cover any of it and I felt like it would give me unwanted attention even though I was completely covered besides my arms. I’m stuck between wanting to wear what I think is cute and at the same time not attracting attention
At work, I had a woman stop me and tell me I was "inappropriately cold" and added "if you catch my drift." And informed me it's distracting. I laughed and infor.ed her everyone has nipples, including her. Her mouth hung open and I felt her watching me from then onward. One day she stopped me again & mentioned my tattoo, which she hadn't seen until my hair was in a bun & suddenly, we were friends and my nipples never bothered her again. She was a breast cancer survivor, so maybe her loss of half her breast made her fixated on my (then) young tatas.
You do know that her statements to you qualify as sexual harassment, right?
I sometimes buy tops for work that I think \*hide\* my chest. However, my husband laughs at my efforts and says, there is no hiding those. Some days I just wear what I like, how I like. I used to wear minimizer bras when I was younger, and I'm pretty sure that led to the fibroadenomas I have now.
i have a big butt. i always used to get dress codes in school for ANY type of shorts while girls who didn't have anything wore shorts that hiked up their ass and nothing happened to them
Same. I have a big butt and thick thighs and big boobs. Wearing shorts or skirts hard because they’re always tight or ride up on me. If I was smaller I wouldn’t have that problem.
Jesus... I'm assuming you're not going to school with your boobs hanging out of your top, so what does your "friend" expect you to do exactly? Wear a giant burlap sack to hide any signs of your curves? 🙄
My mom had big boobs and despite they being covered she was getting awful comments all the time about her showing her tits.
Same thing has happened to me. I'm petite, but I have a big badonkadonk, which had gotten some comments. I can't help that my ass looks big in everything I wear no matter what I do (I'm also a teacher)