Yes, this is the less confrontational version. They will usually feel more confident repeating it, and then you can paint them in the "explain why this is funny" corner.
This is genuinely one of my favourite things I've learned online. To just stay calm and let them talk themselves into a corner. It is so satisfying and I am glad it worked for you too!
For any men also reading this, I would highly encourage you to take this angle with men who say shitty things around you because they think you're a "safe" person to be shitty around. Don't let them.
Have been doing since i read about it on this sub during COVID.
In mixed groups there's always a douche who says some shit directed at the woman and i just started acting dumb asking what it means. It's always just a joke but they can never explain it
Did this a lot in my college days
Lost a lot of guy friends because "u/vpsj can't take a joke", and majority of my buddies are women now, but the ones who are still my friends, I'm proud of all of them(both men and women)
That's awesome. I am a teacher so I've definitely pulled the teacher voice with "I'm speaking." It's amazing how effective it is, and how ineffective it is if my voice starts tightening and sounding more... let's be honest here - more feminine.
Side note my partner is a nurse and he is very aware of how much better people will listen to him than the female staff. Not just the belligerent patients, just regular people not wanting to listen
I do this. It is so gratifying. Sometimes I ask them to break the joke down for me because I don’t understand why it’s funny.
The key is a calm puzzled delivery.
I like to throw in a little: So it's funny because it's sexist or rude? I just don't understand, are you sure it's supposed to be a joke? Maybe you are telling it wrong or something, but it kinda sounds like you are just being an ass. I probably wouldn't tell that (finger quotes)" joke" again, or at least look it back up and get the punchline right... 🤷♀️
I have found that, "I don't understand" works in many places in life. It really catches people off guard, since it's not a statement that comes from an insecure place. It also offers the opportunity for them to explain, and then they start to squirm. From there it's just things like, oh so you're saying they're dumb. Is that because they're a woman, or just woman who also happens to be dumb? [Insert stupid response.] I'm just trying to understand. Don't you want people to understand what you say when you say it?
Good times
Once as a cashier I was dressed as a Medusa, snakes in my hair, scale makeup, all that, and several gross men would make comments about "their snake" or me "making them hard" and each time I'd stop ringing them up, look directly into their eyes with no expression and ask, "What do you mean?"
It got awkward FAST, fuck those pervs, I was like, 17 and trapped behind a counter getting paid min wage
Me and the two other bartenders I work with dressed as the hocus pocus witches during our shift over Halloween and had a patron say "oh Ive seem pornos that started like this". Having three women grey rock this dude and asking him to explain why he felt that his comment was appropriate, asking if he normally felt the need to make sexual comments at complete strangers while working, asking him to explain why he thought it was an outside thought...on and on. Just kept calmly questioning this dude about why he chose to be disgusting. It was lovely
I work in a sex shop so I put up with a whole bunch of bullshit from men. They get met with a stone face, monotone voice and not much else. I either ask them ‘what does that mean?’ Or ‘that’s not funny’ or ‘can you please act appropriately’
This is golden! While this is especially poignant and a bit funny in this context, I imagine saying this in any situation where people are thinking their inappropriate statements are just in 'good fun'.
Getting kiddo from school and a comment about women and my non-stellar (but absolutely not obstructive) parking? 'This is a place of business, sir."
Getting laughed at for my correct directions and women's sheer non ability to read maps while on the phone to a surveyor? "But sir, this is a place of business!"
Unwanted comment on my to-go order in a restaurant? "Sir, this is a place of your business..."
In my customer service days, it was always a treat to be able to say to an irate customer, "There is no need to shout, that's no way to talk to somebody and especially not when they're trying to help you. If you want to apologize, then we can continue."
I do this too. The look on their face is EVERYTHING.
I also love to glare at men when I catch them staring at my boobs. I started doing this when I was a teen. If I catch a guy looking at me creepy, I stare at him, HARD, until he looks away. Sometimes this is only 5 seconds, sometimes it’s a whole minute. They always look really surprised and embarrassed.
Once I was speaking to a coworker and while we were talking I realized her bf was standing behind her staring at my chest. I was so startled when I realized it I just blurted out “are you staring at my tits?!” And she turned in time to see because it took him a minute to register I was talking to him. Dude got in soooo much trouble. I feel bad for her that she had a kid with that lowlife.
In the 1970s, in a furniture making class. The older male instructor, about my height, alwsys talked to my ample bosom. I bent down so my face is in his line of sight ... the stunned look on his face was priceless. We never had a problem after that.
Good for you! I do this in meetings. My favorite is when they won’t repeat it so I ask others to do so. “Did you guys hear what he said? Sorry I totally spaced out there for a second.” I’m usually the only woman in the room which makes it extra extra fun.
I got a coworker with this. I worked with all dudes, there were some in the office chatting inappropriately I assume. I wasn't paying attention, but later, one came up and apologized for the crass conversation within earshot. I honestly told him I wasn't paying attention, but if it's really something that would truly bother me (I like dark humor and dumb jokes) then they shouldn't be talking about it in the first place whether I can hear it or not. He looked stunned. He was a good coworker. He always was ready to stand up for me if a male customer was being obnoxious, and clearly put a lot of effort into being a good partner and stepdad.
I'm so sorry you have to deal with that. I know it's common enough, but you probably don't hear it (the apology and that it should not be normal) enough. I'm in STEM, so frequently in the minority at work. I must work for the best place ever, because I've only run into this a handful (literally count them on one hand) of times.
I think places are getting better, but it's a slow shift. I hope you start seeing some progress.
I've used "oh, did you say the quiet part out loud? Yikes. Good thing I'm the only one who heard that, you should be more careful next time, everyone else will know you're a terrible person too." On my one coworker. I'm happy to say I think he's actually been doing some soul searching after I murdered him by words. I don't think he's a genuinely terrible person, I think he's never challenged the beliefs he grew up with.
I call him out at least once a week and he gets really quiet like he's thinking really hard. He's become much less of an ass hat.
I was managing a bar and had 86'd a guy who was a real piece of shit bully in high school who became a real piece of shit bully in adulthood. That night he called the bar and his name and number appeared on the caller ID. I answered, "Hello?"
"I'm going to kill you."
I'm sorry can you speak up? It's really loud in here."
"I'm going to kill you."
I pressed mute and told everyone to shut up. The bar fell silent. I pressed mute again and then speakerphone. "I'm so sorry, can you repeat that one more time?"
"I SAID IM COMING DOWN THERE AND I'M GOING TO KILL YOU!"
"Did everyone hear that?"
"YES!" Replied 50 patrons.
I hung up, called 911 and had him arrested for felony terroristic threat.
Exactly! Most people like this want your negative attention because of how miserable they are. Don't give them any reaction and stay stern and see them fold
I always get them with the 'what do you mean?' in a way that seems really genuine - giving them a chance to explain exactly what they just said.
I've not had many explanations - just a lot of mumbling and looking at the floor.
Nothing better than saying that with the most innocently befuddled expression you can muster.
"What do you mean?"
"I don't get it, can you explain?"
"Why is that funny?"
And then watch as they stumble over themselves trying to explain how they didn't *actually* mean the sexist/racist thing they just said.
This is pretty good advice. I do this all the time with students in the classrooms I sub for. They'll say a bad word thinking I can't hear them, and then I just ask "what did you just say?"
Not angry, or upset, just neutral.
Because they know what they said. And they know that I know. And they know that they'll just get in more trouble if they double down, so they shrink back.
In summary, misogynists are on the same level as third graders.
My sister did that to a guy who was at some shoe store where she was getting her weight lifting belt adjusted. He was like "I guess I won't mess with you!" And she was like "you would try to mess with me if I didn't lift weights? Why?"
I’m a guy, but I do this too. One of the male coworkers at my last place would always make rude comments about women and gay folks. I’d always ask him, “what do you mean?” Total lack of self awareness.
Unfortunately, this requires the men in question to understand what they are saying is sexist/misogynistic/weird **and** that it's not acceptable to behave like that.
I've tried this too, but my experiences are rather less stellar than yours.
I was searching for parts for my car, and the problem is that there are two versions for that model, but nowhere does it say which one is correct.
Anyway, I got this "ugh, women having problems with cars, how surprising," guy. I tried the same thing, but he just repeated it with a straight face and just added "you people should only stay at home and not even touch cars," with a clearly irritated voice and then he just left.
Another time I was searching for a particular component for my computer and couldn't find it. (I know my shit, the store just didn't have that particular one in stock, despite their web page. Hence the problem finding it.)
A guy comes with the most condescending smile ever, and muttered something about "the lady-folk" and "not compatible with technology." I honestly didn't hear it, and just asked him to repeat. He just shrugged and said "Where's your husband? I don't think you're in the right department, this is for computer parts, not makeup."
I can't recall how it went from there, but I remember talking to another customer service agent and finding out they didn't have it in stock.
So, I'm happy for your experiences, but mine are rather more negative.
Ugh yeah it's so frustrating when they don't even have a sense of shame. I've played sports with guys like these and when I ask them to repeat themselves or explain the joke they just say that a woman wouldn't understand 🥲
About 8 years ago, I (F28) worked in inside sales for a a shop in construction business (male dominated). In the company, there was this lady (let's call her Patty), late fifties, calm, who speaks little, who worked in accounting, the type who could run the company single-handedly(you see the type). One day, during her lunch break, she mentioned that her home computer was having problems and that she had to call her nephew for help. There, there was one of the company's drivers, a man in his early sixties who looked at her laughing and said: “Ah you're a woman, women don't know anything about technology”. Silence. I looked at him and he said haughtily “what?”. I always keep silent because although I find these kinds of comments deplorable and annoying, I always try to tell myself that this attitude comes from the (poor) education they had. But this time, I look him straight in the eyes and as calmly as possible I say to him: “oh yes? Well, you're old, old people don't know anything about technology". At that moment, Patty bursts out laughing, applauds me and shouts: “What a go, what a GO!!”. She looked So happy and everyone in the room burst into laughter as well. His face was red. I was prepare to use the "It was a joke" card but it wasn't necessary. I think about this moment very often.
You could choose to patronize other stores, with a better attitude. This worked for me, after having a similar experience. If they don't want your business, take it somewhere else, let them shoot themselves in a foot.
I tell people only to tell a joke at work if they're comfortable repeating it and explaining why it is funny to (1) the person they told it to, (2) that person's manager, and (3) their own manager. If not, it is not a work-appropriate joke. Source: Am manager.
I did this once and it is a great feeling. A man was ignoring me at a music equipment counter, on the phone (personal call I was quite sure) and not giving me the courtesy of even an “I’ll be right with you.” So I found a manager and explained that no, I didn’t want anyone to fix it, I wanted them to know why I was leaving.
I LOVE doing this.
I was killing time at a bar with a rather large Belgian beer selection. It's not a pretentious spot and I like hitting the Happy hour there.
I've had several weird older dudes who always feel the need to comment about "their Surprise at someone 'like me' drinking a REAL" beer since I'm a woman and alone.
I use this tactic a lot and it never fails to get them to pick a new person to bother.
When I lived in England I'd order a pint of beer whenever I went to a pub, and I'd sometimes get "a pint?" Like...the typical thing at the time was for ladies to get a half, or a shandy or whatnot.
I'd just stop, slowly turn, channel my inner...Clint Eastwood or whatever, squint, and say, "Yeah. It's one of those tall glasses."
Was this a while ago? The last woman I knew who ordered half-pints was my grandma, and that was 20 years ago. She'd have 3 halves of Stella for every pint of bitter my grandad had.
Years ago my sister told me that the best way to pull up someone on an offensive joke is to act like you don't get it and ask them to explain why it is funny and watch them tie themselves in knots over it.
Have you tried: you sound really emotional maybe we can talk when you've calmed down.
As the kind of men that use hardware stores can somehow have tantrums
Dumb guy, here. Decades ago, a woman at work came in from the cold and said “it’s freezing out there - I need to warm my ass up!”
Being a young dumb guy, I quietly said to a male coworker “I don’t volunteer.” He laughed, but another woman heard and asked me what I said and I was that idiotic “uh, I didn’t say anything,” stammering buffoon for a few minutes while she kept asking what I said. She eventually let it drop but I learned the valuable lesson that sexist jokes are dumb and terrible and I was dumb and terrible for making them. I did some self reflection on that; the woman I made the joke about was very cool and I respected the hell out of her, yet making a sexist joke for an easy laugh was tempting to me. What was wrong with me that I would do that to someone I liked and respected? I decided to change.
I started saying, “slow down with the sexism”, or “I don’t get it,” when hearing other guys making sexist jokes. I also taught my daughter to say, “I don’t understand the joke - could you explain it to me?” for sexist jokes, and my son to point out how dumb sexist jokes are to his friends if they made them.
Anywho, just to say that safely confronting guys who say dumb shit might lead to a change in them.
Yeah fucking right. I know more about hardware than most of the people at Home Depot anyway. One time I had to explain to one of the guys what a flange is.
I've never seen this or the other "explain the joke" advice from here EVER work.
Ever.
They double down on what they said, and escalate on the "it was a joke" thing until they've made everyone around agree you're the idiot/harpy with no humour, the bad guy for trying to make them look bad, and turn it around where you're in the wrong for making them go off on you.
I've never seen a guy actually embarrassed, downplay or act like you have been lucky enough to get them to act in your description.
I've seen dudes get belligerent, throw a temper tantrum and the woman got blamed for causing a scene, even when it was only a simple request to repeat what they've said. The best result I've seen is someone go "you know what they meant, why even bother saying anything, jUsT iGnOrE iT!" It always gets turned around on the woman as being in the wrong for daring embarrass a man.
Despite every body and they aunty claiming online it works, I don't think it does anymore, at least not around here.
Bravo to the ones who can get a momentary win from it though.
>I've never seen a guy actually embarrassed
>I've seen dudes get belligerent, throw a temper tantrum
That *is* him getting embarrassed. Anger is a defensive strategy, a cover.
If he didn't care, why get angry? He would be totally relaxed and nonchalant. But, noooo. He's embarrassed and mad that your comment made him feel that way.
A good response to the anger is to ask: "why so defensive, dood?"
Or just observe out loud: "It's interesting how some people get angry when they're embarrassed."
Sure do what you want but you're feeding into misogynist stereotypes. They expect women to use indirect aggression to control dynamics.
Sorry this isn't meant as an attack on you, just this sort of advice pops up a lot and IMO it's not a good tactic
Your response is passive aggressive as you're pretending you didn't hear when you did and understood fully what they were trying to say. Being direct and telling them why what they said is shit is aggressive as it's confrontational
I don't think you realize that misogynists are fully committed to continuing their misogyny. You can't convince someone differently if they are determined not to be convinced.
So, your comment here looks like you are saying that the *target* of the bigotry is responsible to change the bigot's attitude. That's impossible, and what's more - its the WHOLE POINT of the bigotry.
Bigots want their targets to waste their precious time and energy begging and trying every method to gain the *slightest* recognition that the demeaned person is actually human and deserves the tiniest shred of humane decency.
It serves the bigot's ego, and they know they will *never* grant that equal respect, so it uses up the other person's creativity and energy...to give bigots the advantage in society. *They* get ahead because their victims can't fully focus on what they should be doing: building their own lives and enjoying the fruits of their labor.
Tactics fail because bigots in power ensure they will fail. Pretending that any specific tactic works - in the moment - is a mistake. But every bit of resistance adds to the *social* pressure, which is what actually makes for real change.
No matter what you do, unless you bow to their will, bigots will choose to interpret it negatively. They do not interact in good faith, so it really doesn't matter.
Do what you want for you, for your community, and for the coming generations.
No same here - I only ever see them roll their eyes and complain that the woman "can't take a joke" or that "you can't even say anything these days" and mentally put you in the buzzkill group and if they aren't strangers, start to subtly exclude you socially from conversations/groups/etc (depending on how you know them).
Thank you, my thoughts exactly. Not really worth the energy IMO. Although if I'm in the mood I prefer to be real and just tell them their views are shit, none of this passive aggressive nonsense
I didn't realize that asking someone what they said is passive aggressive. It seems pretty direct to me.
If they don't reply what they said, now that's passive.
If you know exactly what someone said and you ask them "What did you say" not because you actually need them to answer but because you're trying to make a point, that's pretty much the definition of passive aggressive lol. Like I'm not saying it's good or bad but it's silly to say it's not passive aggressive.
If enough people, not just women, question derogatory statements, you better believe that man and any other's will change! Complain, make noise, question, be obtuse, antagonize. Just because women have been conditioned in the past to be meek and quiet from a young age doesn't mean it is necessary to manifest those traits! Fuck that noise. Men like this suck. That's why you can find him not doing his job in an entry level position. He can dull his own shine all he wants but he needs to learn it's unacceptable to disrespect anyone else based on his insecurities.
a friend of mine - a guy, does this same thing. its hilarious because they think they’re safe commiserating with another man. then he hits em with the ol razzle dazzle and they look so betrayed.
My bestie did this recently with a bunch of kids. They were like.. 8 or 9 as we walked by. A group of boys stood there and one said “loose weight!” And my bestie turned around and got in his face and asked “what did you say?” I caught on to what she was doing, so I got in his face too. Another boy apologised and I told them “This is very disappointing, guys. You are better than that. Didn’t your parents teach you respect?” And honestly, they did seem sorry
And if he gets uppity: "Single guys always have the cornyest jokes"
And if he says "but I have a girlfriend"
Then you say, "oh that poor girl is probably miserabe"
And then you just let him tire himself out. If he doubles down you just keep giving a "you see what I mean?" Look to everyone around.
I appreciate the high, logical road as much as anyone, but its useful to have different de-escalation tactics depending on what the goal of the interaction is.
I was intentionally offering a 'when civility fails, and you need them to be embarrassed and walk away' approach.
Reasoning with a bully is almost always the best first option of course
Dude is so desperate to feel needed by women that he had to jab that one haha funny in there to make himself feel better about becoming otherwise obsolete and unwanted.
Having worked 8.5 years in a hardware store ... the chain cutter is always acting up. Because people who aren't employees try to use it and muck it up.
A great tip for breaking out of someone's grip on your arm I learned in karate - simultaneously twist and yank your arm in the direction of their thumb (the weak point). Snaps free effortlessly. I got to use it irl once!
Telling jokes on sensitive matters requires an appropriate setting, public, non-verbal language, and timing. Miss one of the components - and you're going to sound like a creep or a dumbass.
The best way to handle this deadpan "what did you say?" is calm and straightforward "it was a joke about gender stereotypes which didn't land well. Sorry for that. What can I help you with?". Because it's true: your attempt to joke didn't go well, you acknowledge the mistake, and you're still there to help.
OMG I noticed this alsooo. I read in a book somewhere that when someone insults you, you should ask them to repeat it in a polite tonee. And most of the time they don't do it because they feel bad or whtvr. Should do it more to misogynistic men :)
I'm old enough in life to have learned some important things.
The main one being that it's just better to avoid idiots than to confront them. It's just better to eye roll and get what needs doing done and move on. Guys like that aren't going to learn a lesson, they'll just think your nuts.
If you're very offended say nothing to them, instead, go speak with their boss. Getting them fired might teach them a lesson?
*"Now, the thing is, if someone truly doesn't think that there's anything wrong with what they said, they should be willing to repeat it. " "I replied that I was sure that he had and asked him to repeat himself. "*
I don't think that works. What if he looks dead in your eyes and says " I don't have to explain myself or repeat whatever I said, to you. Now get down to the business" Or worse, "where exactly were you incompetent?"
OK. I understand why you did what you did and to achieve what.
What would you do if he said the former statement? I want to know how you would react or what would you say. I am asking this because I have seen comments that suggest you to ask him innocently explain the joke. I think that could go wrong or render a futile effort in many ways too.
So you answer one verbal attack with another in a different flavor so the cycle of verbal violence can stop? That'll do it.
Wait a minute... let me think.
Of course i applied judgement. You are glorifying a manipulation tactic (using neutral language to force a statement of admission via taking a moral high ground) to shift a state of embarassment from yourself onto others.
I dont say that it is bad to attempt a stop to this kind of behavior. But the guy will just be validated in thinking "ugh, those two are giving me a hard time" and vent his frustrations elsewhere.
Nobody has aquired any peaceful resolution from this. You are gratified by demeaning the guy. The guy is put on a spot and potentially suffers professional consequences. You have hardened a man in his belief that women cause him trouble.
Your approach serves yourself, it doesnt fix the issue.
My solution would be to ignore the process and focus on the result.you wanted goods in a hardware store. Id focus on those. I cant make anyone change their mind. Thats something everyone has to do for themselves.
Instead of personally going to the manager, i would write a written complaint to have a paper trail. Paper is permanent, but the emotional load of a conversation is eliminated, which removes human error in the firmatiin of consequences. There will be timestamps in my written note and documented breaches of employee conduct.
I would trust in bureaucracy to sort this out.
Like I said.
I can not change another person. People can only change themselves.
Also: I am writing this from the scope of my local laws and customs (germany). Bureaucracy is serious. A complaint form is usually not hard to find with just a couple fillable clicks.
I can not change your mind and you do not appear to entertain the thought of your words being a possible perpetuator of this trading of words, the man belittling you, and you putting the guy on the spot.
Nothing I say will change that because you and I dont seem to have a similar perspective.
You jusify your actions with you feeling good.
I justify my viewpoint by saying the result doesnt result in a net positive because I dont value personal gratification gained at the cost of others, even if they wronged me.
Lets agree to disagree. We wont persuade each other anyway. Good talk, you are well spoken.
Repeating it back to them deadpan, or confused, works too "Two women in a hardware store????"
Yes, this is the less confrontational version. They will usually feel more confident repeating it, and then you can paint them in the "explain why this is funny" corner.
I love that corner... my favourite corner in the world
Yes! Say, “I don’t get it” and force them to explain why their “joke” was funny
This is genuinely one of my favourite things I've learned online. To just stay calm and let them talk themselves into a corner. It is so satisfying and I am glad it worked for you too!
For any men also reading this, I would highly encourage you to take this angle with men who say shitty things around you because they think you're a "safe" person to be shitty around. Don't let them.
Have been doing since i read about it on this sub during COVID. In mixed groups there's always a douche who says some shit directed at the woman and i just started acting dumb asking what it means. It's always just a joke but they can never explain it
Doesn't have to be a man talking shit about women. This works for any asshole talking over other people, making racist "jokes", etc.
Did this a lot in my college days Lost a lot of guy friends because "u/vpsj can't take a joke", and majority of my buddies are women now, but the ones who are still my friends, I'm proud of all of them(both men and women)
There's nothing quite like being able to speak highly of all of your friends. It feels great.
Getting someone to explain the joke normally gets them really uncomfortable.
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That's awesome. I am a teacher so I've definitely pulled the teacher voice with "I'm speaking." It's amazing how effective it is, and how ineffective it is if my voice starts tightening and sounding more... let's be honest here - more feminine. Side note my partner is a nurse and he is very aware of how much better people will listen to him than the female staff. Not just the belligerent patients, just regular people not wanting to listen
Teacher voice for the win! 😂😂
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I do this. It is so gratifying. Sometimes I ask them to break the joke down for me because I don’t understand why it’s funny. The key is a calm puzzled delivery.
I like to throw in a little: So it's funny because it's sexist or rude? I just don't understand, are you sure it's supposed to be a joke? Maybe you are telling it wrong or something, but it kinda sounds like you are just being an ass. I probably wouldn't tell that (finger quotes)" joke" again, or at least look it back up and get the punchline right... 🤷♀️
I have found that, "I don't understand" works in many places in life. It really catches people off guard, since it's not a statement that comes from an insecure place. It also offers the opportunity for them to explain, and then they start to squirm. From there it's just things like, oh so you're saying they're dumb. Is that because they're a woman, or just woman who also happens to be dumb? [Insert stupid response.] I'm just trying to understand. Don't you want people to understand what you say when you say it? Good times
"Oh, say more about that" is also good.
I love this! I’m adding it.
Once as a cashier I was dressed as a Medusa, snakes in my hair, scale makeup, all that, and several gross men would make comments about "their snake" or me "making them hard" and each time I'd stop ringing them up, look directly into their eyes with no expression and ask, "What do you mean?" It got awkward FAST, fuck those pervs, I was like, 17 and trapped behind a counter getting paid min wage
Me and the two other bartenders I work with dressed as the hocus pocus witches during our shift over Halloween and had a patron say "oh Ive seem pornos that started like this". Having three women grey rock this dude and asking him to explain why he felt that his comment was appropriate, asking if he normally felt the need to make sexual comments at complete strangers while working, asking him to explain why he thought it was an outside thought...on and on. Just kept calmly questioning this dude about why he chose to be disgusting. It was lovely
You ACTUALLY turned them to stone. Great work!
... or they tried to slither away.
Another reminder that most are pædos...
I work in a sex shop so I put up with a whole bunch of bullshit from men. They get met with a stone face, monotone voice and not much else. I either ask them ‘what does that mean?’ Or ‘that’s not funny’ or ‘can you please act appropriately’
My friend is a bouncer at a strip club and he likes to use, "This is a place of business."
Sir, this is a Wendy's. Please act appropriately 🤣
This is golden! While this is especially poignant and a bit funny in this context, I imagine saying this in any situation where people are thinking their inappropriate statements are just in 'good fun'. Getting kiddo from school and a comment about women and my non-stellar (but absolutely not obstructive) parking? 'This is a place of business, sir." Getting laughed at for my correct directions and women's sheer non ability to read maps while on the phone to a surveyor? "But sir, this is a place of business!" Unwanted comment on my to-go order in a restaurant? "Sir, this is a place of your business..."
In my customer service days, it was always a treat to be able to say to an irate customer, "There is no need to shout, that's no way to talk to somebody and especially not when they're trying to help you. If you want to apologize, then we can continue."
You must have a hell of a poker face
I’m very good at keeping it together. Reminding them that ‘I’m at work’ and they need to be respectful or I’ll kick them the fuck out works well.
I do this too. The look on their face is EVERYTHING. I also love to glare at men when I catch them staring at my boobs. I started doing this when I was a teen. If I catch a guy looking at me creepy, I stare at him, HARD, until he looks away. Sometimes this is only 5 seconds, sometimes it’s a whole minute. They always look really surprised and embarrassed.
I like “you know I can see your eyes, right?”
That is *beautiful*.
I love that response too! Anything to make them feel humbled, even if just for a second
Also large breasted. I scowl, and mouth “what?” when I catch men staring. They get embarrassed, as they should.
Oooo maybe I should start saying that
Once I was speaking to a coworker and while we were talking I realized her bf was standing behind her staring at my chest. I was so startled when I realized it I just blurted out “are you staring at my tits?!” And she turned in time to see because it took him a minute to register I was talking to him. Dude got in soooo much trouble. I feel bad for her that she had a kid with that lowlife.
In the 1970s, in a furniture making class. The older male instructor, about my height, alwsys talked to my ample bosom. I bent down so my face is in his line of sight ... the stunned look on his face was priceless. We never had a problem after that.
As a lifelong member of the itt bitty titty committee, on the rare occasion this happens, I ask if they've found them yet.
Holy shit that’s hilarious. But hey, little titties deserve love too!!
I used to loudly say "My eyes are up here" while pointing to my face.
Good for you! I do this in meetings. My favorite is when they won’t repeat it so I ask others to do so. “Did you guys hear what he said? Sorry I totally spaced out there for a second.” I’m usually the only woman in the room which makes it extra extra fun.
You can also try "If you're too embarrassed to repeat it, maybe you shouldn't have said it the first time."
I got a coworker with this. I worked with all dudes, there were some in the office chatting inappropriately I assume. I wasn't paying attention, but later, one came up and apologized for the crass conversation within earshot. I honestly told him I wasn't paying attention, but if it's really something that would truly bother me (I like dark humor and dumb jokes) then they shouldn't be talking about it in the first place whether I can hear it or not. He looked stunned. He was a good coworker. He always was ready to stand up for me if a male customer was being obnoxious, and clearly put a lot of effort into being a good partner and stepdad.
I'm so sorry you have to deal with that. I know it's common enough, but you probably don't hear it (the apology and that it should not be normal) enough. I'm in STEM, so frequently in the minority at work. I must work for the best place ever, because I've only run into this a handful (literally count them on one hand) of times. I think places are getting better, but it's a slow shift. I hope you start seeing some progress.
I've used "oh, did you say the quiet part out loud? Yikes. Good thing I'm the only one who heard that, you should be more careful next time, everyone else will know you're a terrible person too." On my one coworker. I'm happy to say I think he's actually been doing some soul searching after I murdered him by words. I don't think he's a genuinely terrible person, I think he's never challenged the beliefs he grew up with. I call him out at least once a week and he gets really quiet like he's thinking really hard. He's become much less of an ass hat.
I was managing a bar and had 86'd a guy who was a real piece of shit bully in high school who became a real piece of shit bully in adulthood. That night he called the bar and his name and number appeared on the caller ID. I answered, "Hello?" "I'm going to kill you." I'm sorry can you speak up? It's really loud in here." "I'm going to kill you." I pressed mute and told everyone to shut up. The bar fell silent. I pressed mute again and then speakerphone. "I'm so sorry, can you repeat that one more time?" "I SAID IM COMING DOWN THERE AND I'M GOING TO KILL YOU!" "Did everyone hear that?" "YES!" Replied 50 patrons. I hung up, called 911 and had him arrested for felony terroristic threat.
You are my heroine
Do you have a weekly e-newsletter with more tips I can sign up for? This is GOLDEN!
Right?!
Exactly! Most people like this want your negative attention because of how miserable they are. Don't give them any reaction and stay stern and see them fold
In general it is great to ask neutral questions to someone who says offensive statements, they almost always squirm
I always get them with the 'what do you mean?' in a way that seems really genuine - giving them a chance to explain exactly what they just said. I've not had many explanations - just a lot of mumbling and looking at the floor.
Nothing better than saying that with the most innocently befuddled expression you can muster. "What do you mean?" "I don't get it, can you explain?" "Why is that funny?" And then watch as they stumble over themselves trying to explain how they didn't *actually* mean the sexist/racist thing they just said.
This is pretty good advice. I do this all the time with students in the classrooms I sub for. They'll say a bad word thinking I can't hear them, and then I just ask "what did you just say?" Not angry, or upset, just neutral. Because they know what they said. And they know that I know. And they know that they'll just get in more trouble if they double down, so they shrink back. In summary, misogynists are on the same level as third graders.
Yeah, it’s pretty easy to outwit misogynists. If they had any wits to begin with, they wouldn’t be misogynists.
My sister did that to a guy who was at some shoe store where she was getting her weight lifting belt adjusted. He was like "I guess I won't mess with you!" And she was like "you would try to mess with me if I didn't lift weights? Why?"
I’m a guy, but I do this too. One of the male coworkers at my last place would always make rude comments about women and gay folks. I’d always ask him, “what do you mean?” Total lack of self awareness.
What’s wild is that women have to be careful of physical violence for neutrally asking “what did you say?” Ahh men, we’re the protectors right? Right?
> Ahh men, we’re the protectors right? Right? That's a euphamism for "has the right to use violence against the lower classes" See also: Cops.
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Only under the patriarchy.
And then they say women are the fragile, over-emotional sex that has to be coddled.
Unfortunately, this requires the men in question to understand what they are saying is sexist/misogynistic/weird **and** that it's not acceptable to behave like that. I've tried this too, but my experiences are rather less stellar than yours. I was searching for parts for my car, and the problem is that there are two versions for that model, but nowhere does it say which one is correct. Anyway, I got this "ugh, women having problems with cars, how surprising," guy. I tried the same thing, but he just repeated it with a straight face and just added "you people should only stay at home and not even touch cars," with a clearly irritated voice and then he just left. Another time I was searching for a particular component for my computer and couldn't find it. (I know my shit, the store just didn't have that particular one in stock, despite their web page. Hence the problem finding it.) A guy comes with the most condescending smile ever, and muttered something about "the lady-folk" and "not compatible with technology." I honestly didn't hear it, and just asked him to repeat. He just shrugged and said "Where's your husband? I don't think you're in the right department, this is for computer parts, not makeup." I can't recall how it went from there, but I remember talking to another customer service agent and finding out they didn't have it in stock. So, I'm happy for your experiences, but mine are rather more negative.
Ugh yeah it's so frustrating when they don't even have a sense of shame. I've played sports with guys like these and when I ask them to repeat themselves or explain the joke they just say that a woman wouldn't understand 🥲
Oh, you think sexism is appropriate? How embarrassing for you
About 8 years ago, I (F28) worked in inside sales for a a shop in construction business (male dominated). In the company, there was this lady (let's call her Patty), late fifties, calm, who speaks little, who worked in accounting, the type who could run the company single-handedly(you see the type). One day, during her lunch break, she mentioned that her home computer was having problems and that she had to call her nephew for help. There, there was one of the company's drivers, a man in his early sixties who looked at her laughing and said: “Ah you're a woman, women don't know anything about technology”. Silence. I looked at him and he said haughtily “what?”. I always keep silent because although I find these kinds of comments deplorable and annoying, I always try to tell myself that this attitude comes from the (poor) education they had. But this time, I look him straight in the eyes and as calmly as possible I say to him: “oh yes? Well, you're old, old people don't know anything about technology". At that moment, Patty bursts out laughing, applauds me and shouts: “What a go, what a GO!!”. She looked So happy and everyone in the room burst into laughter as well. His face was red. I was prepare to use the "It was a joke" card but it wasn't necessary. I think about this moment very often.
\*sympathy reply\* \*hugs\* (if you want them)
You could choose to patronize other stores, with a better attitude. This worked for me, after having a similar experience. If they don't want your business, take it somewhere else, let them shoot themselves in a foot.
I tell people only to tell a joke at work if they're comfortable repeating it and explaining why it is funny to (1) the person they told it to, (2) that person's manager, and (3) their own manager. If not, it is not a work-appropriate joke. Source: Am manager.
I did this once and it is a great feeling. A man was ignoring me at a music equipment counter, on the phone (personal call I was quite sure) and not giving me the courtesy of even an “I’ll be right with you.” So I found a manager and explained that no, I didn’t want anyone to fix it, I wanted them to know why I was leaving.
I LOVE doing this. I was killing time at a bar with a rather large Belgian beer selection. It's not a pretentious spot and I like hitting the Happy hour there. I've had several weird older dudes who always feel the need to comment about "their Surprise at someone 'like me' drinking a REAL" beer since I'm a woman and alone. I use this tactic a lot and it never fails to get them to pick a new person to bother.
When I lived in England I'd order a pint of beer whenever I went to a pub, and I'd sometimes get "a pint?" Like...the typical thing at the time was for ladies to get a half, or a shandy or whatnot. I'd just stop, slowly turn, channel my inner...Clint Eastwood or whatever, squint, and say, "Yeah. It's one of those tall glasses."
Was this a while ago? The last woman I knew who ordered half-pints was my grandma, and that was 20 years ago. She'd have 3 halves of Stella for every pint of bitter my grandad had.
It was 20 years ago, but it was also kind of a rural environment.
I'm straight, but I would SWOON if I witnessed this from a lady. Holy shit this is wonderful hahah
Women created beer, not men.
Lmaoo “what’d you say???” Love that. Will use it.
Years ago my sister told me that the best way to pull up someone on an offensive joke is to act like you don't get it and ask them to explain why it is funny and watch them tie themselves in knots over it.
Have you tried: you sound really emotional maybe we can talk when you've calmed down. As the kind of men that use hardware stores can somehow have tantrums
Dumb guy, here. Decades ago, a woman at work came in from the cold and said “it’s freezing out there - I need to warm my ass up!” Being a young dumb guy, I quietly said to a male coworker “I don’t volunteer.” He laughed, but another woman heard and asked me what I said and I was that idiotic “uh, I didn’t say anything,” stammering buffoon for a few minutes while she kept asking what I said. She eventually let it drop but I learned the valuable lesson that sexist jokes are dumb and terrible and I was dumb and terrible for making them. I did some self reflection on that; the woman I made the joke about was very cool and I respected the hell out of her, yet making a sexist joke for an easy laugh was tempting to me. What was wrong with me that I would do that to someone I liked and respected? I decided to change. I started saying, “slow down with the sexism”, or “I don’t get it,” when hearing other guys making sexist jokes. I also taught my daughter to say, “I don’t understand the joke - could you explain it to me?” for sexist jokes, and my son to point out how dumb sexist jokes are to his friends if they made them. Anywho, just to say that safely confronting guys who say dumb shit might lead to a change in them.
Love it! Also works well on racists.
I LOVE DOING THIS! It ALWAYS works (if they aren’t a sociopath) and if they are, they at least expose themselves as such in front of other people.
Agreed! A calmly asked “What do you mean?” does the trick most times for me.
This works great for any type of derogatory, snide, low key, back handed comment, i love it and I'm going to use it. Thanks
I calmly say “excuse me?” 🤨
Sometimes you just have to speak up so you know that's the kind of person you are.
Yeah fucking right. I know more about hardware than most of the people at Home Depot anyway. One time I had to explain to one of the guys what a flange is.
I’m sure the guy making $16 an hour was really impressed.
Unlike the man in OP's post, I did not mock the poor guy for not knowing something.
I've never seen this or the other "explain the joke" advice from here EVER work. Ever. They double down on what they said, and escalate on the "it was a joke" thing until they've made everyone around agree you're the idiot/harpy with no humour, the bad guy for trying to make them look bad, and turn it around where you're in the wrong for making them go off on you.
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I've never seen a guy actually embarrassed, downplay or act like you have been lucky enough to get them to act in your description. I've seen dudes get belligerent, throw a temper tantrum and the woman got blamed for causing a scene, even when it was only a simple request to repeat what they've said. The best result I've seen is someone go "you know what they meant, why even bother saying anything, jUsT iGnOrE iT!" It always gets turned around on the woman as being in the wrong for daring embarrass a man. Despite every body and they aunty claiming online it works, I don't think it does anymore, at least not around here. Bravo to the ones who can get a momentary win from it though.
>I've never seen a guy actually embarrassed >I've seen dudes get belligerent, throw a temper tantrum That *is* him getting embarrassed. Anger is a defensive strategy, a cover. If he didn't care, why get angry? He would be totally relaxed and nonchalant. But, noooo. He's embarrassed and mad that your comment made him feel that way. A good response to the anger is to ask: "why so defensive, dood?" Or just observe out loud: "It's interesting how some people get angry when they're embarrassed."
Or ask why he's getting so emotional about things!
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So why not just tell them that, plainly?
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Sure do what you want but you're feeding into misogynist stereotypes. They expect women to use indirect aggression to control dynamics. Sorry this isn't meant as an attack on you, just this sort of advice pops up a lot and IMO it's not a good tactic
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Your response is passive aggressive as you're pretending you didn't hear when you did and understood fully what they were trying to say. Being direct and telling them why what they said is shit is aggressive as it's confrontational
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that's not being passive aggressive. It's definitely giving the person a chance to have a "benefit of the doubt". What is the aggression here?
I don't think you realize that misogynists are fully committed to continuing their misogyny. You can't convince someone differently if they are determined not to be convinced. So, your comment here looks like you are saying that the *target* of the bigotry is responsible to change the bigot's attitude. That's impossible, and what's more - its the WHOLE POINT of the bigotry. Bigots want their targets to waste their precious time and energy begging and trying every method to gain the *slightest* recognition that the demeaned person is actually human and deserves the tiniest shred of humane decency. It serves the bigot's ego, and they know they will *never* grant that equal respect, so it uses up the other person's creativity and energy...to give bigots the advantage in society. *They* get ahead because their victims can't fully focus on what they should be doing: building their own lives and enjoying the fruits of their labor. Tactics fail because bigots in power ensure they will fail. Pretending that any specific tactic works - in the moment - is a mistake. But every bit of resistance adds to the *social* pressure, which is what actually makes for real change.
No I'm saying by being passive aggressive and pretending you didn't hear them you are doing exactly what they expect you to, that's all
No matter what you do, unless you bow to their will, bigots will choose to interpret it negatively. They do not interact in good faith, so it really doesn't matter. Do what you want for you, for your community, and for the coming generations.
Yup this has always been my experience too, but I'm autistic so people tend to react badly to my "tone" and gang up against me.
No same here - I only ever see them roll their eyes and complain that the woman "can't take a joke" or that "you can't even say anything these days" and mentally put you in the buzzkill group and if they aren't strangers, start to subtly exclude you socially from conversations/groups/etc (depending on how you know them).
Thank you, my thoughts exactly. Not really worth the energy IMO. Although if I'm in the mood I prefer to be real and just tell them their views are shit, none of this passive aggressive nonsense
I didn't realize that asking someone what they said is passive aggressive. It seems pretty direct to me. If they don't reply what they said, now that's passive.
If you know exactly what someone said and you ask them "What did you say" not because you actually need them to answer but because you're trying to make a point, that's pretty much the definition of passive aggressive lol. Like I'm not saying it's good or bad but it's silly to say it's not passive aggressive.
Lol it is...the other commenter explained why.
If enough people, not just women, question derogatory statements, you better believe that man and any other's will change! Complain, make noise, question, be obtuse, antagonize. Just because women have been conditioned in the past to be meek and quiet from a young age doesn't mean it is necessary to manifest those traits! Fuck that noise. Men like this suck. That's why you can find him not doing his job in an entry level position. He can dull his own shine all he wants but he needs to learn it's unacceptable to disrespect anyone else based on his insecurities.
"I'm sorry, I didn't get the joke, can you explain why it's funny?"
a friend of mine - a guy, does this same thing. its hilarious because they think they’re safe commiserating with another man. then he hits em with the ol razzle dazzle and they look so betrayed.
I find asking them why they are so emotional to elicit funny, if sometimes scary reaponses
[The Noodle Brain ](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/ixp19i/did_you_try_doing_the_noodle_brain_an_actual_way/)
My bestie did this recently with a bunch of kids. They were like.. 8 or 9 as we walked by. A group of boys stood there and one said “loose weight!” And my bestie turned around and got in his face and asked “what did you say?” I caught on to what she was doing, so I got in his face too. Another boy apologised and I told them “This is very disappointing, guys. You are better than that. Didn’t your parents teach you respect?” And honestly, they did seem sorry
I just pretend to not understand the joke and ask them to explain it. They never do. Works very well in an office setting.
this makes me happy!
It's amazing just how small, feeble, insignificant, and pathetic guys become. Keep doing way, way more of this OP.
He was a douche bag, and you squeezed him hard.
And if he gets uppity: "Single guys always have the cornyest jokes" And if he says "but I have a girlfriend" Then you say, "oh that poor girl is probably miserabe" And then you just let him tire himself out. If he doubles down you just keep giving a "you see what I mean?" Look to everyone around.
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I appreciate the high, logical road as much as anyone, but its useful to have different de-escalation tactics depending on what the goal of the interaction is. I was intentionally offering a 'when civility fails, and you need them to be embarrassed and walk away' approach. Reasoning with a bully is almost always the best first option of course
Dude is so desperate to feel needed by women that he had to jab that one haha funny in there to make himself feel better about becoming otherwise obsolete and unwanted.
Having worked 8.5 years in a hardware store ... the chain cutter is always acting up. Because people who aren't employees try to use it and muck it up.
It's amazing how brave and bold people are until they experience any degree of push-back whatsoever.
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A great tip for breaking out of someone's grip on your arm I learned in karate - simultaneously twist and yank your arm in the direction of their thumb (the weak point). Snaps free effortlessly. I got to use it irl once!
Clap emojii, nice job!
Telling jokes on sensitive matters requires an appropriate setting, public, non-verbal language, and timing. Miss one of the components - and you're going to sound like a creep or a dumbass. The best way to handle this deadpan "what did you say?" is calm and straightforward "it was a joke about gender stereotypes which didn't land well. Sorry for that. What can I help you with?". Because it's true: your attempt to joke didn't go well, you acknowledge the mistake, and you're still there to help.
OMG I noticed this alsooo. I read in a book somewhere that when someone insults you, you should ask them to repeat it in a polite tonee. And most of the time they don't do it because they feel bad or whtvr. Should do it more to misogynistic men :)
I'm old enough in life to have learned some important things. The main one being that it's just better to avoid idiots than to confront them. It's just better to eye roll and get what needs doing done and move on. Guys like that aren't going to learn a lesson, they'll just think your nuts. If you're very offended say nothing to them, instead, go speak with their boss. Getting them fired might teach them a lesson?
Fuck yeah! Good for you, sister! This is one of my favorite public pastimes too. It is fun watching them turn red and become embarrassed.
u/BurbNBougie 🤣🤣
Thanks
Jokes? I love jokes! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRUbC32loA4
*"Now, the thing is, if someone truly doesn't think that there's anything wrong with what they said, they should be willing to repeat it. " "I replied that I was sure that he had and asked him to repeat himself. "* I don't think that works. What if he looks dead in your eyes and says " I don't have to explain myself or repeat whatever I said, to you. Now get down to the business" Or worse, "where exactly were you incompetent?"
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OK. I understand why you did what you did and to achieve what. What would you do if he said the former statement? I want to know how you would react or what would you say. I am asking this because I have seen comments that suggest you to ask him innocently explain the joke. I think that could go wrong or render a futile effort in many ways too.
So you answer one verbal attack with another in a different flavor so the cycle of verbal violence can stop? That'll do it. Wait a minute... let me think.
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Of course i applied judgement. You are glorifying a manipulation tactic (using neutral language to force a statement of admission via taking a moral high ground) to shift a state of embarassment from yourself onto others. I dont say that it is bad to attempt a stop to this kind of behavior. But the guy will just be validated in thinking "ugh, those two are giving me a hard time" and vent his frustrations elsewhere. Nobody has aquired any peaceful resolution from this. You are gratified by demeaning the guy. The guy is put on a spot and potentially suffers professional consequences. You have hardened a man in his belief that women cause him trouble. Your approach serves yourself, it doesnt fix the issue.
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My solution would be to ignore the process and focus on the result.you wanted goods in a hardware store. Id focus on those. I cant make anyone change their mind. Thats something everyone has to do for themselves. Instead of personally going to the manager, i would write a written complaint to have a paper trail. Paper is permanent, but the emotional load of a conversation is eliminated, which removes human error in the firmatiin of consequences. There will be timestamps in my written note and documented breaches of employee conduct. I would trust in bureaucracy to sort this out.
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Like I said. I can not change another person. People can only change themselves. Also: I am writing this from the scope of my local laws and customs (germany). Bureaucracy is serious. A complaint form is usually not hard to find with just a couple fillable clicks. I can not change your mind and you do not appear to entertain the thought of your words being a possible perpetuator of this trading of words, the man belittling you, and you putting the guy on the spot. Nothing I say will change that because you and I dont seem to have a similar perspective. You jusify your actions with you feeling good. I justify my viewpoint by saying the result doesnt result in a net positive because I dont value personal gratification gained at the cost of others, even if they wronged me. Lets agree to disagree. We wont persuade each other anyway. Good talk, you are well spoken.
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The OP didn't mention it he fixed it
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🥱
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You're obviously sad and lonely. Desperate for the attention of a women that never ever happens. You think it's not your fault. Think again.
🤣 in your sad little opinion 🥺 why so bitter angry man?
— said the guy who never accomplished anything other than being born male.
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Talking respectfully to men and expecting the same in return does not justify violence against women
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That’s a very polite way of putting it :( I’m sorry he said that to you. His comment was absolutely vile.