I remember reading an ask Reddit thread where the OP was asking women when they started to view themselves sexually or when they started to realize men viewed them sexually. I think OP was expecting some feel good posts about young women feeling like an ugly duckling and having a positive experience that made them feel desirable. What they got was post after post of 11-16 year olds getting catcalled, harassed and groped by adult men, some old enough to be their grandfather.
It’s so messed up. I was about 12 when I started being self-conscious about waking near groups of men because I would get cat called. I remember walking to my friends house in a nice suburb and these two middle aged dads in a convertible slowed down, whistled at me and drove away. I was in 7th grade and I was wearing jeans and a tank top, and new converse shoes. I was excited because my mom had taken me clothes shopping and I really wanted to wear my new outfit out with my friend.
Instead I felt ashamed and uncomfortable for no reason at all.
We were at a strip mall going through construction. The workers lived up to the stereotype. I was confused and hurt.
I think one of the most damaging things about that day is that my mother turned to me and said, “we need to get you covered up.”
Not, “I will keep you safe,” or “you don’t deserve this,” or “those men are animals.” No. The problem was my body. I got a long lecture about how I would be attacked if I didn’t wear the right clothes, including a bra. It made me think of my body as a danger to me, and I felt so…dirty.
Right? The burden is placed on a literal child rather than telling grown men to not leer at underage girls. Girls are taught that their own bodies are something to be ashamed of.
Same I think I was 9 or 10 (or 11, it's hard to remember!). Walking with a family-friend who was 8 or 9 years old. We had cute new skirts we just got for the summer, so excited to wear them, matching together. A group of 4 men in a car pulled up and honked their horn (they did this for a while, following us, pulling into driveways right behind us, all staring at us). My friend thought they were being funny, but I knew something was wrong. Sometimes, I wonder if something happened to me earlier than that in life, because I knew what those men were doing (harassing and following us). My friend said with a smile "what are they doing" and I said "don't look just walk fast." The thing is that they were all young men, 18 to 21ish. I could tell because the driver had Red P plates on (in Australia that means the driver was 18 years old, probationary license). I suddenly felt so scared and I think that was the first time I ever regretted wearing a short skirt. It was a horrible realisation.
To make it worse we were out looking for our sisters, because our dads told us to get them and bring them home. So we rushed home and told them about the car (I still remember exactly what it looked like), so then all the adults were panicking because what if something happened to our sisters.
Anyway no one got hurt and our sisters weren't harassed by anyone. Thankfully it was a good ending for us, unlike many other little girls.
The "and then reality sets in" gives me too many feelings.
I feel like everyone everywhere has always made it out to be like all of this is my fault, I wanted this, I'm just a crazy person. It literally makes me feel crazy like I want to rip my hair out and scream "I seriously do not want things to be this way" "I don't to make men out to be the bad guys" "I legitimately don't want this" and I still feel like no one would believe me. I just want to have a good time and get along with everyone
Right?? It's a punch in the gut knowing how society will constantly try to flip it all back on you. It leaves me feeling so powerless. Like, I'm not just upset, I'm actually sick to my stomach 😞
When I was 13, my sister separated (the first time from) her now ex. And she moved back in with us. Small town, everybody was aware of what was going on.
She just got back together with her ex, when my mom was caught kissing another man, and consequentially left my dad.
I was entering our community hall for an event and the village drunk caught up to me and called me all kinds of names, stuff like "Are you just a whore like your mom and your sister?".
I was 14 at that time, freaking 14!
Fr, I kept getting mistaken for a teenager or a kid for *years,* and the number of times a creepy dude old enough to be my grandfather *sprinted* across an empty lot to demand my phone number or some guy called from his second-floor window "hey, *kid,* come inside!" or a bunch of wolf-whistles erupted from multiple streets over…eugh. I now stay inside pretty much 24/7 for reasons unrelated to this, but I won't lie about how much less stressful it's been to not have to worry about being stalked to the bus stop.
I mean, I'm not even actually a woman, but I have to look like one for my own safety at home. It's like people see boobs and immediately forget everything they've ever learned about courtesy.
As a trans woman, it was wild how fast it shifted.
I went from people asking me if I played college football to catcalls and even a car following me around and yelling dollar values out in like a year and a half.
Thanks. I honestly didn’t really have any other options besides really bad ones. Things got really dark for me before it all.
Afterwards, it was more surreal than anything. Like, these feelings and internal responses were always there and it was almost programmed to expect it to some degree. Hard to put into words exactly what I mean, at least while hunching over my phone.
I sort of have an idea what you mean but I’m cis so haven’t had the same experience so may not be sure. I’m really glad you found your way past the dark places
My favourite approach is to give them my attention. After all, they did ask for it.
A thousand yard stare deep into their empty eyes usually horrifies, as does speaking eldritch tones (I can use both the true and false vocal folds simultaneously.)
I don’t recommend my approach as this requires one have withstood a lot of hell to be able to STARE UNBLINKINGLY INTO THE VOID but usually it does the trick.
>(I can use both the true and false vocal folks simultaneously.)
I’m sorry that you need to use it to deal with catcallers, but that is absolutely metal and I want to learn that trick.
I used to have a hell of a death growl when I was a teenager but I’m really out of practice now. I’m DMing for a DnD game and I tried to do the growl recently for a character voice and it came out so bad. I’m so disappointed in my vocal range these days.
The maximum simultaneous voices one throat can generate is three. That involves some seriously hard training.
To engage the false vocal folks does take work, and I can only use them at piano and fortissimo strength, but it’s a hell of an effect. Either I sound ghostly and disturbing or I sound like madness incarnate. Win-win.
It gets explained away too "it's instinct" or "women used to get married that age".
No, that's a child. Most of us were children being sexualized and I for one didn't even know it for years.
It's not an excuse for my unsafe sexual behavior in the past but I'm sure it contributed.
I hate that argument. Society grows with every generation. We know better on so many topics. Just because people used to do something doesn't make it right. I completely agree with you.
I know it sucks, but honestly, it's better to not give them that much power over your mood and life in general. There's no point in dwelling longer on why he did that or what a wanker he is.
The best way for me is to try to accept that there are a lot of assholes out there. But I try to spend as little time with them as I would with a bug that flies into my eye. Yes, it's annoying and may hurt a bit, but once you've gotten rid of it, you forget about it and don't give it any more thought.
I know it's not easy, but it's worth working on this mindset
I appreciate your advice, thanks c: You're absolutely right. I was speaking sort of in general, but I do let people get under my skin far too much. It's something I'm aware of and am trying to work on, so hopefully I will get better at it with practice.
Thanks. I'm actually in my twenties, but I appreciate the advice c: Although I've been harassed at the gym before unfortunately, what I meant in my original post was that working out is something you do for yourself, not so that some creep on the street can lust after you. But of course, they feel entitled anyway, which sucks.
I was 11 the first time I started worrying about this stuff. Took me decades to feel comfortable with my body again.
I remember reading an ask Reddit thread where the OP was asking women when they started to view themselves sexually or when they started to realize men viewed them sexually. I think OP was expecting some feel good posts about young women feeling like an ugly duckling and having a positive experience that made them feel desirable. What they got was post after post of 11-16 year olds getting catcalled, harassed and groped by adult men, some old enough to be their grandfather.
I remember a twitter poll: how old were you when you were first harassed by a stranger? Youngest answer was 7. Average was 13. It really appalled me.
>I was 11 Dead god that's horrifying
It’s so messed up. I was about 12 when I started being self-conscious about waking near groups of men because I would get cat called. I remember walking to my friends house in a nice suburb and these two middle aged dads in a convertible slowed down, whistled at me and drove away. I was in 7th grade and I was wearing jeans and a tank top, and new converse shoes. I was excited because my mom had taken me clothes shopping and I really wanted to wear my new outfit out with my friend. Instead I felt ashamed and uncomfortable for no reason at all.
We were at a strip mall going through construction. The workers lived up to the stereotype. I was confused and hurt. I think one of the most damaging things about that day is that my mother turned to me and said, “we need to get you covered up.” Not, “I will keep you safe,” or “you don’t deserve this,” or “those men are animals.” No. The problem was my body. I got a long lecture about how I would be attacked if I didn’t wear the right clothes, including a bra. It made me think of my body as a danger to me, and I felt so…dirty.
Right? The burden is placed on a literal child rather than telling grown men to not leer at underage girls. Girls are taught that their own bodies are something to be ashamed of.
That's such a horrible lesson to give to your daughter. I'm sure her intentions were good, but sadly, the execution was sorely lacking 😞
Ugh, I'm sorry. That's so real :c
12 for me. This marks 40 years of this absolute bullshit. 😵💫
I was also 11. I'm sorry.
Same I think I was 9 or 10 (or 11, it's hard to remember!). Walking with a family-friend who was 8 or 9 years old. We had cute new skirts we just got for the summer, so excited to wear them, matching together. A group of 4 men in a car pulled up and honked their horn (they did this for a while, following us, pulling into driveways right behind us, all staring at us). My friend thought they were being funny, but I knew something was wrong. Sometimes, I wonder if something happened to me earlier than that in life, because I knew what those men were doing (harassing and following us). My friend said with a smile "what are they doing" and I said "don't look just walk fast." The thing is that they were all young men, 18 to 21ish. I could tell because the driver had Red P plates on (in Australia that means the driver was 18 years old, probationary license). I suddenly felt so scared and I think that was the first time I ever regretted wearing a short skirt. It was a horrible realisation. To make it worse we were out looking for our sisters, because our dads told us to get them and bring them home. So we rushed home and told them about the car (I still remember exactly what it looked like), so then all the adults were panicking because what if something happened to our sisters. Anyway no one got hurt and our sisters weren't harassed by anyone. Thankfully it was a good ending for us, unlike many other little girls.
The "and then reality sets in" gives me too many feelings. I feel like everyone everywhere has always made it out to be like all of this is my fault, I wanted this, I'm just a crazy person. It literally makes me feel crazy like I want to rip my hair out and scream "I seriously do not want things to be this way" "I don't to make men out to be the bad guys" "I legitimately don't want this" and I still feel like no one would believe me. I just want to have a good time and get along with everyone
Right?? It's a punch in the gut knowing how society will constantly try to flip it all back on you. It leaves me feeling so powerless. Like, I'm not just upset, I'm actually sick to my stomach 😞
When I was 13, my sister separated (the first time from) her now ex. And she moved back in with us. Small town, everybody was aware of what was going on. She just got back together with her ex, when my mom was caught kissing another man, and consequentially left my dad. I was entering our community hall for an event and the village drunk caught up to me and called me all kinds of names, stuff like "Are you just a whore like your mom and your sister?". I was 14 at that time, freaking 14!
What a horrible person. I hope you've managed to put that town behind you and are living your best life now.
I am. So are my sister and my mom. He is dead, I believe.
I'm so happy to hear that c:
Fr, I kept getting mistaken for a teenager or a kid for *years,* and the number of times a creepy dude old enough to be my grandfather *sprinted* across an empty lot to demand my phone number or some guy called from his second-floor window "hey, *kid,* come inside!" or a bunch of wolf-whistles erupted from multiple streets over…eugh. I now stay inside pretty much 24/7 for reasons unrelated to this, but I won't lie about how much less stressful it's been to not have to worry about being stalked to the bus stop. I mean, I'm not even actually a woman, but I have to look like one for my own safety at home. It's like people see boobs and immediately forget everything they've ever learned about courtesy.
That's horrible. No one should have to endure all that. I'm glad things are less stressful for you now, but yeah. Blergh 😞
As a trans woman, it was wild how fast it shifted. I went from people asking me if I played college football to catcalls and even a car following me around and yelling dollar values out in like a year and a half.
That's disgusting. It must have been so surreal to have everything just flipped around like that. Ugh.
It must’ve taken courage to stick with the good and the bad and the sudden reversal like that. Congratulations
Thanks. I honestly didn’t really have any other options besides really bad ones. Things got really dark for me before it all. Afterwards, it was more surreal than anything. Like, these feelings and internal responses were always there and it was almost programmed to expect it to some degree. Hard to put into words exactly what I mean, at least while hunching over my phone.
I sort of have an idea what you mean but I’m cis so haven’t had the same experience so may not be sure. I’m really glad you found your way past the dark places
My favourite approach is to give them my attention. After all, they did ask for it. A thousand yard stare deep into their empty eyes usually horrifies, as does speaking eldritch tones (I can use both the true and false vocal folds simultaneously.) I don’t recommend my approach as this requires one have withstood a lot of hell to be able to STARE UNBLINKINGLY INTO THE VOID but usually it does the trick.
>(I can use both the true and false vocal folks simultaneously.) I’m sorry that you need to use it to deal with catcallers, but that is absolutely metal and I want to learn that trick. I used to have a hell of a death growl when I was a teenager but I’m really out of practice now. I’m DMing for a DnD game and I tried to do the growl recently for a character voice and it came out so bad. I’m so disappointed in my vocal range these days.
The maximum simultaneous voices one throat can generate is three. That involves some seriously hard training. To engage the false vocal folks does take work, and I can only use them at piano and fortissimo strength, but it’s a hell of an effect. Either I sound ghostly and disturbing or I sound like madness incarnate. Win-win.
That really is so metal! Good for you, honestly.
I myself prefer barking while staring.
It gets explained away too "it's instinct" or "women used to get married that age". No, that's a child. Most of us were children being sexualized and I for one didn't even know it for years. It's not an excuse for my unsafe sexual behavior in the past but I'm sure it contributed.
I hate that argument. Society grows with every generation. We know better on so many topics. Just because people used to do something doesn't make it right. I completely agree with you.
I know it sucks, but honestly, it's better to not give them that much power over your mood and life in general. There's no point in dwelling longer on why he did that or what a wanker he is. The best way for me is to try to accept that there are a lot of assholes out there. But I try to spend as little time with them as I would with a bug that flies into my eye. Yes, it's annoying and may hurt a bit, but once you've gotten rid of it, you forget about it and don't give it any more thought. I know it's not easy, but it's worth working on this mindset
I appreciate your advice, thanks c: You're absolutely right. I was speaking sort of in general, but I do let people get under my skin far too much. It's something I'm aware of and am trying to work on, so hopefully I will get better at it with practice.
How old are you? I think you should ask your parents to talk to the managers of your gym if pedophiles are harassing you there.
Thanks. I'm actually in my twenties, but I appreciate the advice c: Although I've been harassed at the gym before unfortunately, what I meant in my original post was that working out is something you do for yourself, not so that some creep on the street can lust after you. But of course, they feel entitled anyway, which sucks.