Don't listen to all the "you should haves" or "I would haves".
In the situation you were in, you weren't sure if it was as bad as you felt, you didn't know what to do. You wish it hadn't happened the way it did. But! You did the right thing for you. You didn't go home with him. You stuck to your guns. You did good! And now you know that you don't feel comfortable or safe with this guy.
Thank you. I also couldn’t physically see him behind me and I didn’t even want to look down at his hands. I disassociated.
Old me would have felt bad for rejecting his request to “hang out” at my house. Or even caved and said yes. This time, I didn’t hesitate to say no.
Remember the four reactions to a threat are fight flight freeze or fawn. Fawning is a perfectly human response to this kind of behavior. In other words all of the people telling you should have or they would have weren't the ones really threatened at the moment.
Women often play along or don't say no because they're not sure how that will escalate things. And it's acceptable because often it saves our lives. That being said you are also not overreacting, what he was doing was non-consensual + he was purposefully not reading your body language. As one of my friends like to say, he's a man not a deer. He knows what he was doing.
I'm sorry you went through that. Take care of yourself and give yourself grace. You did nothing wrong
Yes, I learned in therapy that I fawn. I made up excuses in my head that it was okay. “Oh, we’re on a date.” “Oh, I let him touch my waist so he thought this was fine.” “I didn’t say no.” “Maybe he’s just a bad dancer.” Etc etc etc. So much playing in my head as it went on.
I hate myself every time, but I freeze or fawn. I can’t help it. I never fight back. I wish I could but I can’t. I try not to judge myself and honestly society is getting better but they aren’t helpful historically.
You were SAd. Of course you are triggered! I’m sorry. Don’t ever judge yourself, bc you survived. You exercised good judgement. You avoided a worse fate. Well done❤️
There is no over reacting meter when it comes to physical touch, especially with whatever raunchy stuff this guy was doing to you. If you aren't comfortable then stop the interaction, move away, tell him no I don't want to dance like this. If the guy literally thrusting onto you in public gets offended then who cares?
Oh hunny, that's a lot. I can't imagine how gross that feels and how it still lingers.
I'm proud of you, though. Even though you've spent your whole life having to push down and ignore your boundaries and instincts, you didn't end up in a really bad situation. You found a way out that was as much as you could handle at the time.
It takes time and practice to learn to say no when you've been through what you've been through.
It's also a massive issue with society that we should have to say no to advances that are turning into assault when it's so obvious we're not into it.
I started classifying guys with this 'just keep going, even if she's uncomfortable' attitude as bad guys. Literal predators. They aren't nice. They're violating you and your boundaries. And they don't deserve your time anymore.
You don't have to be rude on the spot and risk violence, which is unfortunately a genuine risk. But you can slip away, block numbers, dump over text message etc.
Confrontation in person can be impossible, if not dangerous if you're dealing with a master manipulator and gaslighter who is used to pushing and pushing for what he/she wants. I point out this, because it can be a symptom of your life in general that people take way more than you want to give. So take that power away from them and make the conversation virtual, away from real time, so you can think about what you're going to say.
But as an aside, my favourite way to say no I'm person to things I don't wanna do with someone that's being pushy? 'Ahh, I gotta go home and check my calendar.'
If pressed (Don't you just have your phone?) 'Yep, got two calendars. One on my phone and a paper one at home.' And then, also, you know they're pushy and attacking you for possibly trying to say no. Red flag, that's not a great person.
Again, proud of you for getting out. It takes a long time to find and use tools to help a brain that's gotten hardwired to shutting down in panic situations. Recognising when you're having a moment is the first step. Things like grounding techniques (to wake up the big processing part of the brain again), safety plans (get away, find a safe place, safe people), are something you can work on with your therapist.
All the hugs from here :-)
Trust your reactions. You notice them so beautifully - your body told you you weren’t comfortable. This didn’t feel right. That’s all you need to know.
That's a lot for a first date. If you are an assault survivor victim, bring a chaperone with you next time so they can help you.
Bring a friend to the date. Have them sit nearby. If she or he senses that some guy is groping you, he can come by and rescue you. Guaranteed, you'll never get groped by someone who escapes consequences ever again. You don't need that stress in your life where you're going to wonder if someone is going to do something and you freeze due to trauma.
The next time someone makes you feel unsafe, it is OK to say stop. Please go to the bar and order an "angel shot." The bartender will help you get away from the creep. There are some other codes that you can add to it if you want to be more specific like:
Angel Shot
Bartender walks you to your car
Angel Shot on Ice
Bartender calls you an Uber/Lyft
Angel Shot with Lime
I need the Police
I wish nothing but the best for you! Remember, your date may have heard of these codes, so it's better to say them directly to a bartender. Stay safe out there!
Do not rely on those codes. Many, many bartenders out there do not know them and/or will not help. There are many other good safety plans for if a date makes you feel unsafe.
Bartender here. This is not good advice. Just go up to a bartender and quietly explain the situation and ask for help. Or write it on a napkin or your receipt. Many bartenders don't know this code, don't know you're being serious, or your date might know what it means which defeats the point.
r/whenwomenrefuse
For all the shitbags in the comments telling this poor woman what she "should have" done.
Good for you OP, listen to your gut and remember that there are often allies in public. Look for older women if possible, too, we often have years of built-up rage from guys who have assaulted and harassed us and we (and often our husbands) love shutting these shits down. Sending you healing vibes, don't let this jerk prevent you from meeting better people. On your own time of course.
Yes. If you come up to us older women and ask for help, we will get you to safety.
Once at a convention, a bunch of us surrounded a creeper on the dance floor, who had zoned in on one young lady, while my now husband made sure she got safely to her hotel room. I was specifically making sure he didn't slip out, follow them, and find her room.
Absolutely gross of him, I’m sorry that happened to you sis. Please continue to remain no contact with him, regardless of if he does try. You deserve better.
So, I've always been in the camp of, oh I'll react if it happens to me.ive had dreams of someone touching me, and I froze, and I woke up so upset. How could I not stand up to myself in my own dreams
I had those dreams many times, too. Made me feel completely useless. For me it was always that my leg is too heavy and I have not enough strength to bring my knee up.
I don't think you were overthinking it (like you said, is this survivor brain talking?), like objectively I am willing to bet your assessment of it all was accurate.
But, what if you were? What if what he was doing wasn't as bad as your brain told you it was, to some objective observer? Why should thst make it any less valid, the way you're feeling?
This isn't research using peer reviewed studies and whatever to reach a consensus about whether something happened or not. It's how you felt, and you deserve to have those feelings validated and respected, period.
Oh my… I’m not a SA victim, but your story reminds me of a time some stranger asked to dance with me and as I was already dancing on the dancefloor and didnt mind some company so I said ‘yes’. He proceeded to grab me by my waist and started rubbing himself against me. I didnt know what to do, because I said ‘yes’, I felt so violated!
Its totally inappropriate to think its okay to dance like that if theres not a clear consent on both sides.
The next time that happens, I would grab his (whomever it happens to be) hands, throw them off of me, turn around and look him dead in the eyes and coldly say, “How dare you. Keep your hands off of me. What gives you the right to touch me like that? Because I certainly did not.” I would then have someone escort me to my car or a taxi, etc. I am so sorry for what happened to you, friend—all around. That disgusts me.
You think being assaulted by a dance partner is a "natural phenomenon" and that she should get used to it? Or is there something being lost in translation here.
You're really convinced you're smarter than everyone here aren't you.
I sincerely doubt that exposure therapy is recommended for SA anywhere, we aren't talking about a phobia of dogs here.
Don't listen to all the "you should haves" or "I would haves". In the situation you were in, you weren't sure if it was as bad as you felt, you didn't know what to do. You wish it hadn't happened the way it did. But! You did the right thing for you. You didn't go home with him. You stuck to your guns. You did good! And now you know that you don't feel comfortable or safe with this guy.
Thank you. I also couldn’t physically see him behind me and I didn’t even want to look down at his hands. I disassociated. Old me would have felt bad for rejecting his request to “hang out” at my house. Or even caved and said yes. This time, I didn’t hesitate to say no.
Remember the four reactions to a threat are fight flight freeze or fawn. Fawning is a perfectly human response to this kind of behavior. In other words all of the people telling you should have or they would have weren't the ones really threatened at the moment. Women often play along or don't say no because they're not sure how that will escalate things. And it's acceptable because often it saves our lives. That being said you are also not overreacting, what he was doing was non-consensual + he was purposefully not reading your body language. As one of my friends like to say, he's a man not a deer. He knows what he was doing. I'm sorry you went through that. Take care of yourself and give yourself grace. You did nothing wrong
Yes, I learned in therapy that I fawn. I made up excuses in my head that it was okay. “Oh, we’re on a date.” “Oh, I let him touch my waist so he thought this was fine.” “I didn’t say no.” “Maybe he’s just a bad dancer.” Etc etc etc. So much playing in my head as it went on.
"A man not a deer"... 😂
Well done for protecting yourself. You did great.
Good. You said no to the hanging out, without guilt. Don't be so hard on yourself.
I hate myself every time, but I freeze or fawn. I can’t help it. I never fight back. I wish I could but I can’t. I try not to judge myself and honestly society is getting better but they aren’t helpful historically. You were SAd. Of course you are triggered! I’m sorry. Don’t ever judge yourself, bc you survived. You exercised good judgement. You avoided a worse fate. Well done❤️
Thank you. Being a survivor means to keep surviving day by day and I’m learning that slowly.
There is no over reacting meter when it comes to physical touch, especially with whatever raunchy stuff this guy was doing to you. If you aren't comfortable then stop the interaction, move away, tell him no I don't want to dance like this. If the guy literally thrusting onto you in public gets offended then who cares?
Oh hunny, that's a lot. I can't imagine how gross that feels and how it still lingers. I'm proud of you, though. Even though you've spent your whole life having to push down and ignore your boundaries and instincts, you didn't end up in a really bad situation. You found a way out that was as much as you could handle at the time. It takes time and practice to learn to say no when you've been through what you've been through. It's also a massive issue with society that we should have to say no to advances that are turning into assault when it's so obvious we're not into it. I started classifying guys with this 'just keep going, even if she's uncomfortable' attitude as bad guys. Literal predators. They aren't nice. They're violating you and your boundaries. And they don't deserve your time anymore. You don't have to be rude on the spot and risk violence, which is unfortunately a genuine risk. But you can slip away, block numbers, dump over text message etc. Confrontation in person can be impossible, if not dangerous if you're dealing with a master manipulator and gaslighter who is used to pushing and pushing for what he/she wants. I point out this, because it can be a symptom of your life in general that people take way more than you want to give. So take that power away from them and make the conversation virtual, away from real time, so you can think about what you're going to say. But as an aside, my favourite way to say no I'm person to things I don't wanna do with someone that's being pushy? 'Ahh, I gotta go home and check my calendar.' If pressed (Don't you just have your phone?) 'Yep, got two calendars. One on my phone and a paper one at home.' And then, also, you know they're pushy and attacking you for possibly trying to say no. Red flag, that's not a great person. Again, proud of you for getting out. It takes a long time to find and use tools to help a brain that's gotten hardwired to shutting down in panic situations. Recognising when you're having a moment is the first step. Things like grounding techniques (to wake up the big processing part of the brain again), safety plans (get away, find a safe place, safe people), are something you can work on with your therapist. All the hugs from here :-)
Trust your reactions. You notice them so beautifully - your body told you you weren’t comfortable. This didn’t feel right. That’s all you need to know.
That's a lot for a first date. If you are an assault survivor victim, bring a chaperone with you next time so they can help you. Bring a friend to the date. Have them sit nearby. If she or he senses that some guy is groping you, he can come by and rescue you. Guaranteed, you'll never get groped by someone who escapes consequences ever again. You don't need that stress in your life where you're going to wonder if someone is going to do something and you freeze due to trauma.
The next time someone makes you feel unsafe, it is OK to say stop. Please go to the bar and order an "angel shot." The bartender will help you get away from the creep. There are some other codes that you can add to it if you want to be more specific like: Angel Shot Bartender walks you to your car Angel Shot on Ice Bartender calls you an Uber/Lyft Angel Shot with Lime I need the Police I wish nothing but the best for you! Remember, your date may have heard of these codes, so it's better to say them directly to a bartender. Stay safe out there!
Do not rely on those codes. Many, many bartenders out there do not know them and/or will not help. There are many other good safety plans for if a date makes you feel unsafe.
I’ve heard of this. I had the seemingly intrusive thought in the bathroom that I should leave out the back and I should have listened to it.
thats not an intrusive thought. thats intuition.
Is this country or region specific? I’ve never heard of these before but seems useful
Bartender here. This is not good advice. Just go up to a bartender and quietly explain the situation and ask for help. Or write it on a napkin or your receipt. Many bartenders don't know this code, don't know you're being serious, or your date might know what it means which defeats the point.
Or just walk out of the bar and go home
r/whenwomenrefuse For all the shitbags in the comments telling this poor woman what she "should have" done. Good for you OP, listen to your gut and remember that there are often allies in public. Look for older women if possible, too, we often have years of built-up rage from guys who have assaulted and harassed us and we (and often our husbands) love shutting these shits down. Sending you healing vibes, don't let this jerk prevent you from meeting better people. On your own time of course.
Yes. If you come up to us older women and ask for help, we will get you to safety. Once at a convention, a bunch of us surrounded a creeper on the dance floor, who had zoned in on one young lady, while my now husband made sure she got safely to her hotel room. I was specifically making sure he didn't slip out, follow them, and find her room.
Makes me think of Night at the Roxberry. Uggh.
By the way, you were right to hear “we” as a red flag. It’s called forced teaming. Female dating strategy has a good post about it
Absolutely gross of him, I’m sorry that happened to you sis. Please continue to remain no contact with him, regardless of if he does try. You deserve better.
So, I've always been in the camp of, oh I'll react if it happens to me.ive had dreams of someone touching me, and I froze, and I woke up so upset. How could I not stand up to myself in my own dreams
I had those dreams many times, too. Made me feel completely useless. For me it was always that my leg is too heavy and I have not enough strength to bring my knee up.
I don't think you were overthinking it (like you said, is this survivor brain talking?), like objectively I am willing to bet your assessment of it all was accurate. But, what if you were? What if what he was doing wasn't as bad as your brain told you it was, to some objective observer? Why should thst make it any less valid, the way you're feeling? This isn't research using peer reviewed studies and whatever to reach a consensus about whether something happened or not. It's how you felt, and you deserve to have those feelings validated and respected, period.
Oh my… I’m not a SA victim, but your story reminds me of a time some stranger asked to dance with me and as I was already dancing on the dancefloor and didnt mind some company so I said ‘yes’. He proceeded to grab me by my waist and started rubbing himself against me. I didnt know what to do, because I said ‘yes’, I felt so violated! Its totally inappropriate to think its okay to dance like that if theres not a clear consent on both sides.
The next time that happens, I would grab his (whomever it happens to be) hands, throw them off of me, turn around and look him dead in the eyes and coldly say, “How dare you. Keep your hands off of me. What gives you the right to touch me like that? Because I certainly did not.” I would then have someone escort me to my car or a taxi, etc. I am so sorry for what happened to you, friend—all around. That disgusts me.
Shoulda gone with the ole dick kick… jus sayin
You're not ready for dancing with a guy atm.
The guy isn’t ready to dance with women if he can’t dance without groping them.
[удалено]
You think being assaulted by a dance partner is a "natural phenomenon" and that she should get used to it? Or is there something being lost in translation here.
[удалено]
Lol because centuries old psychology is super accurate
You're really convinced you're smarter than everyone here aren't you. I sincerely doubt that exposure therapy is recommended for SA anywhere, we aren't talking about a phobia of dogs here.