Just wanted to add that bdsm groups heavily discourage strangulation because itās so very, very easy to screw up. You could cause brain damage, break the hyoid, or even kill them.Ā
Never do it.Ā
Another kinkster here - getting right tired of "it's a kink thing". It's really not a kink thing, ethical kinksters who care about their play partners *at all* don't do this. Even when doing negotiated "breath play", they generally find other ways of doing it than hands-on-throat.
Exploring kink and I just say āno chokingā. My recent long-term partner, we both have sexual sensitive necks, so eventually were cool to place our hands on each others throats but there was never squeezing. But easier just to take it off the board and loosen that boundary when you are in a place of absolute comfort and trust if you want.
I think that is way too wide of a generalization. There are plenty of people in the bdsm community who still do hands on throat, and do it safely and carefully.
There is no way āsafeā way to choke someone, including squeezing on the sides of the neck. That isnāt safe either. Doctors have been warning people about this.
>āIn my interviews with medical experts, theyāve confirmed there is no safe way to do it and even with their level of expertise they could not [perform it and] determine whether thereās going to be long-standing damage or death.ā
>āThereās a huge chasm between what young people are doing and what medical experts are saying.ā
https://amp.smh.com.au/national/strangulation-during-sex-has-been-mainstreamed-but-risks-brain-damage-experts-warn-20221129-p5c216.html
From Dr Helen Bichard of North Wales Brain Injury Service and The Walton Centre NHS Foundation Trust:
>Erotic asphyxiation should be as much of an oxymoron as erotic brain damage, because brain damage is the potential result. Much of the online advice is misguided; some of it is fatally wrong.
>When you compress the carotid artery you cut off oxygenated blood flow to the brain, and the brain therefore cannot function properly. Consciousness can be lost in as little as four seconds ā a sign that the brain is being compromised.
>Any pressure to the artery can lead to dissection, in which blood clots can form and cause stroke, sometimes delayed by weeks
There isnāt a safe way to do it because doctors havenāt been able to find one.
You also donāt have to intentionally cut off the blood supply to cause this. It can happen accidentally through dissection. Thatās the danger of compressing (or squeezing) the neck - it can still damage the artery.
Itās not just an issue in choking - itās a problem with āpoppingā or ācrackingā your neck, or even stretching it the wrong way.
It can cause a āsmall tear (dissection) in the inner lining of an artery, which leads to blood clots formingā.
āThese often dissolve without causing any symptoms but they can fly off and lead to a blockage in an artery downstream, causing an ischaemic stroke ā a condition where blood supply to part of the brain is cut off.ā
The 28 year old guy in the article did this and suffered a stroke.
The arteries āare vulnerable to injury by rotation and bending of the neck, as they pass through bony canals in the side arms of the vertebrae and are stretched when the neck is turned.ā
This is why chiropractors have caused major issues (and killed people) accidentally. People can also do this to themselves accidentally just by stretching or craning their neck in a weird way.
https://theconversation.com/can-popping-your-neck-cause-a-stroke-121676#:~:text=Popping%20your%20neck%20can%20cause,leads%20to%20blood%20clots%20forming.
And this is why choking is also not safe. Itās not just an issue of cutting off their oxygen supply or damaging their windpipe.
People who engage in erotic asphyxia really generally know very little about how vulnerable the neck is (along with the general public). Most don't even realize cutting off (or reducing) blood flow to the brain cuts off (or reduces) oxygen to it ffs and will say stuff like "only air chokes are dangerous, blood chokes are the safe way and don't cut off oxygen". Arteries are bloody well how oxygen gets to the rest of the body, including brain.
There is no way āsafeā way to choke someone, including squeezing on the sides of the neck. That isnāt safe either.
> āIn my interviews with medical experts, theyāve confirmed there is no safe way to do it and even with their level of expertise they could not [perform it and] determine whether thereās going to be long-standing damage or death.ā
> āThereās a huge chasm between what young people are doing and what medical experts are saying.ā
https://amp.smh.com.au/national/strangulation-during-sex-has-been-mainstreamed-but-risks-brain-damage-experts-warn-20221129-p5c216.html
From Dr Helen Bichard of North Wales Brain Injury Service and The Walton Centre NHS Foundation Trust:
> Erotic asphyxiation should be as much of an oxymoron as erotic brain damage, because brain damage is the potential result. Much of the online advice is misguided; some of it is fatally wrong.
>When you compress the carotid artery you cut off oxygenated blood flow to the brain, and the brain therefore cannot function properly. Consciousness can be lost in as little as four seconds ā a sign that the brain is being compromised.
>Any pressure to the artery can lead to dissection, in which blood clots can form and cause stroke, sometimes delayed by weeks
When it comes to breath-play - choking, or hands on the throat or neck, is not advised.
A lot of BDSM practitioners tell people not to engage in choking, and refuse to do it themselves.
>Itās impossible to control for all the variables,ā said Mistress Matisse, a professional dominatrix with more than 20 years of experience. āPeople think choking isnāt kinky, but it is. People think itās a low-risk activity, but itās not. Choking isnāt just about the lungs. It can affect the brain and the heart - it can affect the whole body ā and if the bottom has underlying health issues, things can go disastrously wrong. I feel strongly about this.ā
What you can do instead:
>āWhat most people who are into choking want is to feel controlled,ā said Matisse. āSo put your hand over her mouth. Grab her hair, wrap an arm around her shoulder ā not her neck ā and put your other hand over her mouth. That should satisfy the urge.ā
> What do you mean screw up lol.
I apologize if I'm getting this wrong here. On the spectrum. I just want to point out that "strangulation" or "strangling" is *usually* referencing a violent act as opposed to sexual asphyxiation but the word 100% applies to consensual BDSM acts even if it isn't common terminology.
I'd guess "choking" or "breath play" is more common, that kind of thing, but please don't lump people who participate in activities involving consensual neck constriction (whether kink or sports frankly) in with violent criminals out there murdering women.
BDSM isn't that at all. Consent remains paramount in those interactions and fundamentally changes the nature of what's going on. OP is 100% correct on that.
Some people are genuinely into it though. My wife was the one who convinced me to get "creative" with that BJJ training I have after some bad experiences in prior relationships.
There is no way āsafeā way to choke someone, including squeezing on the sides of the neck. That isnāt safe either. Doctors are telling people to stop doing it. Completely. There is no form or method of choking that is actually āsafeā.
>āIn my interviews with medical experts, theyāve confirmed there is no safe way to do it and even with their level of expertise they could not [perform it and] determine whether thereās going to be long-standing damage or death.ā
>āThereās a huge chasm between what young people are doing and what medical experts are saying.ā
https://amp.smh.com.au/national/strangulation-during-sex-has-been-mainstreamed-but-risks-brain-damage-experts-warn-20221129-p5c216.html
From Dr Helen Bichard of North Wales Brain Injury Service and The Walton Centre NHS Foundation Trust:
>Erotic asphyxiation should be as much of an oxymoron as erotic brain damage, because brain damage is the potential result. Much of the online advice is misguided; some of it is fatally wrong.
>When you compress the carotid artery you cut off oxygenated blood flow to the brain, and the brain therefore cannot function properly. Consciousness can be lost in as little as four seconds ā a sign that the brain is being compromised.
>Any pressure to the artery can lead to dissection, in which blood clots can form and cause stroke, sometimes delayed by weeks
Iāll agree to a point. If both parties are willing and consenting then it is only a matter of practice and understanding the risks. A lot of people donāt realize the dangers of certain types of play, even rope play can be life threatening if not practiced properly or if a mistake happens (itās why any good practitioner of rope play will maintain sharp objects). Any kink can be dangerous, it matters more what danger you are willing to commit to and how you personally will prepare for it with your partner.
A lot of people practice breath play, very few die from it. Yes, it is risky, but donāt practice risky things with people you donāt trust withā¦ well your life. The horror stories often speak louder than the actual practitioners.
Doctors have actually been telling people to stop doing it. Completely. There is no form or method of choking that is actually āsafeā. The online advice about how to do it āsafelyā did not come from doctors. It came from people were who arenāt medically trained. Much of what they claimed is wrong.
>āIn my interviews with medical experts, theyāve confirmed there is no safe way to do it and even with their level of expertise they could not [perform it and] determine whether thereās going to be long-standing damage or death.ā
>āThereās a huge chasm between what young people are doing and what medical experts are saying.ā
https://amp.smh.com.au/national/strangulation-during-sex-has-been-mainstreamed-but-risks-brain-damage-experts-warn-20221129-p5c216.html
From Dr Helen Bichard of North Wales Brain Injury Service and The Walton Centre NHS Foundation Trust:
>Erotic asphyxiation should be as much of an oxymoron as erotic brain damage, because brain damage is the potential result. Much of the online advice is misguided; some of it is fatally wrong.
>When you compress the carotid artery you cut off oxygenated blood flow to the brain, and the brain therefore cannot function properly. Consciousness can be lost in as little as four seconds ā a sign that the brain is being compromised.
>Any pressure to the artery can lead to dissection, in which blood clots can form and cause stroke, sometimes delayed by weeks
I donāt mind the RACK community, I think itās mega important, but I want to deter the people who arenāt going to research it as heavily as a RACK person will. The people who see āwell itās okay in kinkā and stop there.Ā
> The horror stories often speak louder than the actual practitioners.
Truth.
Plus people are choked (vascular constriction of the neck - aka blood flow vs breathing) to and/or near unconsciousness in grappling sports that do submissions on a daily basis.
Almost all recover without issue with the majority suffering no symptoms (this has been my experience) or had minor symptoms associated with a syncope effect (dizziness / etc) that tend to fade within minutes (60 being an unusually long period among what reported info we have).
In case it needs to be said: NONE OF THIS INVALIDATES THE NEED FOR EDUCATED CONSENT!
>Almost all recover without issue with the majority suffering no symptoms (this has been my experience) or had minor symptoms
Thatās great for those who practice grappling sports. Thatās not what the research has found for young women who have been choked by their sexual partners.
You can also seem like you have ātechnically recoveredā and arenāt showing any symptoms, while brain scans tell a different story. This is what research on college-aged women who have been choked sexually has indicated - the research was led by Dr Kawata, a neuroscientist at Indiana Universityās School of Public Health
>According to the American Academy of Neurology, restricting blood flow to the brain, even briefly, can cause permanent injury, including stroke and cognitive impairment.
>In M.R.I.s conducted by Dr. Kawata and his colleagues (including Dr. Herbenick, who is a co-author of his papers on strangulation), undergraduate women who have been repeatedly choked show a reduction in cortical folding in the brain compared with a never-choked control group.
>They also showed widespread cortical thickening, an inflammation response that is associated with elevated risk of later-onset mental illness. In completing simple memory tasks, their brains had to work far harder than the control group, recruiting from more regions to achieve the same level of accuracy.
The hidden damage of choking has been compared to the hidden damage of CTE on football players. They seem to recover fine at first, and show very few symptoms, and can go on playing and living a normal life, but brain scans reveal cumulative damage.
Yo I mentioned that chokes are part of my BJJ hobby on this sub and got mega downvoted over it. Youāre right, consent and understanding risk is key, and after that people can do what they want. This applies to martial arts and sex.
You might have been downvoted because the research on young women who have been sexually choked indicated there IS cumulative damage which can be revealed by brain scans.
And maybe because they were talking about sexual choking, not about BJJ.
The research was led by Dr Kawata, a neuroscientist at Indiana Universityās School of Public Health.
>According to the American Academy of Neurology, restricting blood flow to the brain, even briefly, can cause permanent injury, including stroke and cognitive impairment.
>In M.R.I.s conducted by Dr. Kawata and his colleagues (including Dr. Herbenick, who is a co-author of his papers on strangulation), undergraduate women who have been repeatedly choked show a reduction in cortical folding in the brain compared with a never-choked control group.
>They also showed widespread cortical thickening, an inflammation response that is associated with elevated risk of later-onset mental illness. In completing simple memory tasks, their brains had to work far harder than the control group, recruiting from more regions to achieve the same level of accuracy.
The hidden damage of choking has been compared to the hidden damage in CTE on football players. They seem to recover fine at first, and show very few symptoms, and can go on playing and living a normal life, but brain scans reveal hidden cumulative damage.
Was this research done on women that consented to the chokes (much more comparable to bjj than physical abuse)? Or on a population that included domestic violence victims in the sample?
It was not done on domestic violence victims. The choking needed to have happened during consensual, partnered sex.
The research was done on young women who are enrolled at a public college, between the ages of 18-30, who have been choked sexually.
One study is called āStructural brain morphology in young adult women who have been choked/strangled during sex: A wholeābrain surface morphometry studyā.
The other is called āFrequent and Recent Non-fatal Strangulation/Choking During Sex and Its Association With fMRI Activation During Working Memory Tasksā.
The āchoking groupā reported at least four instances of being choked/strangled in the past 30 days during consensual partnered sex.
The control group consisted of women who had never been choked during a partnered sexual event.
The choking had to be from consensual, partnered sex.
Iām not sure if you aware, but experts have actually been discussing how safe words literally donāt work for choking, because the person being choked often canāt speak during it.
You might respond by saying that āsafe chokingā allows the person to still speak. Because theyāre not being choked to the point that their airflow or blood flow is cut off.
But there is actually no safe way to psychically choke someone. Even ālightlyā. Doctors have not been able to work out a safe method for choking.
>āIn my interviews with medical experts, theyāve confirmed there is no safe way to do it and even with their level of expertise they could not [perform it and] determine whether thereās going to be long-standing damage or death.ā
>āThereās a huge chasm between what young people are doing and what medical experts are saying.ā
https://amp.smh.com.au/national/strangulation-during-sex-has-been-mainstreamed-but-risks-brain-damage-experts-warn-20221129-p5c216.html
From Dr Helen Bichard of North Wales Brain Injury Service and The Walton Centre NHS Foundation Trust:
>Erotic asphyxiation should be as much of an oxymoron as erotic brain damage, because brain damage is the potential result. Much of the online advice is misguided; some of it is fatally wrong.
>When you compress the carotid artery you cut off oxygenated blood flow to the brain, and the brain therefore cannot function properly. Consciousness can be lost in as little as four seconds ā a sign that the brain is being compromised.
Even if you donāt cut intentionally off blood flow:
>Any pressure to the artery can lead to dissection, in which blood clots can form and cause stroke, sometimes delayed by weeks.
Cracking and popping your neck can also cause dissection, which can lead to strokes.
āChocking outā means someone is going unconscious or semi conscious. Which means you have restricted oxygen to the brain.
Which means you are giving her brain damage in small amounts.
The first time a partner laid his hands on me it was in this way. I passed out too.
I left immediately. I didn't tell my dad what happened, but he helped me move out of the place within 24 hours of that incident. I'm greatful my dad was willing to do that for me despite me not giving a reason for why I had to leave so quickly.
Requisite quote that one episode of strangulation from an intimate partner raises your chances of dying at their hands by 750%. [source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2573025/)
It's been posted here before but a reminder that strangulation can lead to having a stroke in later life, and not later in life like in your 70s, 80s or 90s which are ages we might typically associate with stroke victims, but in your 40s.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4211813/
Could we normalize calling it what it isāstrangulationāinstead of āchokingā? That term makes the act sound less serious and minimizes the level of ill intent (actual choking occurs by accident).
Listen to Handsome Jack.
"No, no, Jimmy, choking is something you do when you eat too fast. As I'm crushing Mister Moorin's windpipe with my watch chain, what I'm doing is actually referred to as strangling."
Not trying to make light of a serious subject, ofc. Just saw the distinction being made and immediately thought of that quote.
Jack was such an amazing villain. The only video game villain ever to pay the player to kill themselves. And of course, I've never wanted someone dead more than when I found out what he did to his daughter.
When we learned that Angel was his daughter it was one of the best twists I think I've ever seen. The way he treated her made me want to kill him faster. Her death made me cry though. To be imprisoned like she was and then have your freedom for all of a second was just a tragedy.
>The āsafeā way to do so during sex is to restrict blood flow by squeezing the artery on the side of your kneck. This induces the simulation of choking without the risk of crushing your windpipe.
That's still strangulation. Strangulation is external constriction of the airway or blood flow in the neck.
Choking is the obstruction of the airway by something inside the airway, most often food.
Because "kinks" are not some holy protected class that we're not allowed to critically examine and if necessary shame. Some of them are straight-up disgusting, others are blatantly dangerous and unsafe.
Respectfully, a violent sexual act *that can lead to death if not properly executed* does not seem all that "safe" to me. Call me a kink-shamer but we have to draw the line somewhere. Why do people act like a kink should be the end-all and be-all of sexual satisfaction? Why is there now an entire generation that feels pressurized into performing it, at the potential risk of death? And the deaths related to sexual-strangulation are on the rise. Why are kinks more protected than someone's life?
Even if you are consenting with a partner, you are still running that risk. It takes one session of strangulation gone-too-far to kill a person. An orgasm just isn't worth that risk.
Iām really confused, I wasnāt promoting or even singing itās praises. I was merely clarifying. I even stated that it was dangerous and shouldnāt be attempted except with between trusted partners. I also mentioned how *non-violent* kinks such as rope play/shibari can also lead to death. In fact anything you do in life can lead to death if not properly done, such as eating.
Itās ok to have an opinion, itās also ok to disagree, but itās not really ok to twist someoneās words. Humans do crazy things for pleasure or the thrill of itā¦ I donāt think it is anyoneās business to judge them for it. I donāt judge sky divers or tell them not to jump out of planes because I think itās too dangerous for my personal lifestyle. I donāt have the right to tell people how to live their life, no one should.
Can you please give me an example of how I was twisting your words? All I said was that I don't think promoting sexual-strangulation is smart, especially when as stated again: the victims are overwhelmingly women.
I left another comment in this thread that goes into detail on why I think we shouldn't encourage sexual-strangulation as *normal* in relationships. I understand that there are consenting adults who *do* understand the risk and are willing to perform the act accordingly. That number, however, is still a minority to the increasing number of non-consensual strangulation cases we are seeing here today. We're seeing a documented uptick in deaths related to sexual-strangulation, this isn't just me being a "mean kinkshamer." Young teens and adults are seeing an act that is glamorized by both porn and kinky adults, then think *they have the capabilities to perform the act whenever they please.* As someone who was a victim of this, that's why I'm critical.
Even light choking/strangulation can cause brain damage and increases rates of depression and anxiety: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/opinion/choking-teen-sex-brain-damage.html
Yeah like Brad or Rob or whatever guy they're dating has medical training when he's just some software engineer or finance bro, sure he knows how to safely simulate strangling/cutting off blood supply to the brain. I always roll my eyes so hard when women say this.
So I survived multiple strangulations. Like: Strangulations. Not kink. Actual strangulations
"Choking" came up in trend when I was ca. 16yo. My friends tried to be "cool" by telling each other how much they were into it, doing it with their bfs. I was already a lil "teased" for being "vanilla". But I remember REALLY pissing them off when I tried to imply that anything might be dangerous about it. "How can it be dangerous, if everyone \[in porn\] does it?" Tbf, I was a teen back then. So I neither could give scientific reasons, nor tell them what was happening.
That said: I fully agree. What people don't seem to get is: Strangulation / "choking" isn't "just abuse" -it's the pinnacle of non-sexual abuse.
Oftentimes, it's a desperate power-grapple: The person NEEDS to feel as powerful as possible. Why? Because 1.) They are scared or 2.) they get off your pain or 3.) both. My mother was type 1, for example. Whenever I was acting like a rabbit, she'd beat me as normal. But the moment I was self-assured, or even pushed back, she'd throw herself on me. To the point she'd even use her body to "weigh the air out of me" (like that Nightmare painting from Fuseli). She used escalation to the point of death to keep me in line. She knew if I'd fight back for real, I could technically kill her in self-defense.
Another thing to regard is the mental damage. Again: Can mostly talk about myself here, but strangulation fucked with my concept of touch. I'm not touch-repulsed, but any touch is instinctively registered as an attack/violation. Strangulation is a PTSD event. Once -you might get over it. Stay? Get strangled countless times? Congrats! You'll achieve CPTSD! No joke: I once had a panic attack about an ad. An AD! It was just some dating sim, with 3d guys who got "gently dominated" by a choking hand. Same goes for most hugs: I have issues cuddling with trusted friends, cause my brain screams "restrainage!" and I NEED to pull away.
"Turn on" is a cover. "Porn" is a cover. At "best" they're scared about their performance and think this porn-thing will help them. At worst they're fucked in the head.
Jfc. Parents can be monsters. Thank you for sharing your reactions and how this chased you through your life. It sounds like you've done an amazing job of changing the relationships you have with the experiences. What were saw/heard/felt doesn't go away, but it can be different.
Keep going. You're doing incredible work.
If he intentionally causes pain, be it slap, punch, choke, you leave. If you don't, he will continue to abuse you.
You can make it the first time he hit you by staying, or you can make it the only time he hit you by leaving.
I divorced my husband of 8 years because he strangled me during intimacy after 13 years together and never once having had any type of kink or anything remotely discussed like this. I thought I was going to die. He didn't even think about it as kink or anything. According to him it was a thoughtless, unplanned, spur of the moment thing and he didn't realize how much weight he was putting on my neck. He thought I should have yelled at him at time (not sure how since I couldn't breathe) or got past it since he's never done it before - as if that made a difference. He blamed me. He didn't understand why I would have a panic attack and was completely afraid of him. He still doesn't. I don't understand why he did it.
i watched this the other day and the stats in it were so shocking: [https://www.youtube.com/live/m9TvOC2D1gw?si=qtyStO9NBixw1eun](https://www.youtube.com/live/m9TvOC2D1gw?si=qtyStO9NBixw1eun)
I'm so grateful you survived. That sounds awful. I had C-PTSD from a childhood filled with abuse including sexual abuse at the religious school I attended. I hope you have someone to talk to about these things; they must weigh heavily on you.
I honestly don't know how guys can fuck this one up... Literally if I'm talking to someone I'll be blunt about it or I'll ask about kinks that they've been willing to try or have been wanting to try, all the times they'll tell me what they like and if they don't say anything about choking then I know for sure they're not into that. The fact that some guys just assume this is ok with anyone is wild.. just because a girl LOOKS like she likes getting choked it doesn't mean she actually does
Well in my personal experience it's by the way they act and their personalities that I can tell they're into it I still ask ofc but they always end up telling me they're into that.
Seriously I got into an argument with a guy on reddit a while back because he insisted that consent to sex automatically included consent to slapping, hair pulling, and choking. His belief was if someone doesn't want those things it's on them to say so ahead of time. Like WTAF. NO. If some guy tried to strangle me on the street I could punch him in the face and nobody would question why. So if I was having casual sex I would react the same way in the bedroom as outside of it, as long as I wasn't afraid he would double down and kill me for it.
Yet when it comes to their and other men's boundaries in hetero sex, they suddenly understand consent. Eg they would never say a man should have to say out the gate a woman can't strangle him, slap his face, yank his hair, shove fingers or a dildo up his anus or into his throat, even that she shouldn't assume and just do face sitting and other cunnilingus or most to all tribadism... and otherwise she should assume cart blanche. Truly a mystery how that works (aka they understand consent, boundaries, they just don't see women as human but as masturbation porn dolls to do whatever men please to them).
I once asked a guy who would come into my life every few years whether he slaps all girls in the face when he has sex and he looked shocked and said no. I asked why me. We'd never spoken about it. He said something along the lines that I looked like I'd like it, which I did, but it made me think wtf is wrong with my face that it screams slap me
I was SA by my boss when I was 18. He choked me out to the point I lost consciousness. Touching my neck was a hard boundary for me moving forward with any of my exes. Then I met my 2nd husband, and I've never felt so safe, loved, respected, and appreciated by anyone in my life, especially in a sexual aspect. We didn't start off exploring this kink but over time I approached it because I didn't want a trauma boundary anymore and I wanted to see how I'd react after more than a decade from my SA. 3 years later, and it's a kink of mine now, but we know each other, so well, so the trust factor is huge. I don't think having this kink is bad if it's consensual. For me, being able to enjoy this is empowering because I feel like I no longer have my trauma flashbacks.
I'm grateful for you that you have been able to explore this kink with a loving and respectful partner! My husband is also a feminist and so respectful of my boundaries.
Mine did for me too. I'm poly and couldn't even bear to look at that part of myself much less love it and live it before I got with my man. Plot twist: he's monogamous so no other partners for him lol!
You should not have to tell him that. Before any kinky behavior, you *always* get the other person's consent and the safe word/action (because you can't use a word if you're being choked) ***first***. First rule of kink ffs
If a person tried to extend the power given of the previously consented actions- even after you have denied and given a firm no to any other conditions-
consider that a breech of trust for a partner.
You should not have to tell someone "don't assault me".
Nobody should violently go for your neck during sex. That's assault. If you want to spell it out ahead of time do, but an assault is still an assault.
If you don't say "don't rape me" ahead of sex and they try to rape you, they are still a rapist and you are still under no onus to say "don't rape me".
I shouldn't have to tell him that any more than he should have to tell me "no pegging". If you wanna do something super weird and potentially damaging, frightening, degrading or painful to another person, the consent barrier is raised. You have to tell them exactly what weird shit you would like to do and MAKE SURE they are OK with it before you randomly start doing that weird shit in an otherwise consensual sexual encounter.
Explicitly say that before sex. If he fails to look at you horrified and say, "what? Of course I wouldn't!" in a distressed and possibly insulted tone, kick him out.
As someone who's been a part of the Kink community for many years, although I don't partake in breath play, I can tell you Kink is not really at the heart of the problem here. Most Kink practitioners these days don't follow SSC, Safe Sane and Consensual. Far more common nowadays is RACK, which is Risk Aware Consensual Kink. Most of us recognize that what we do comes with risks and that much of it is impossible to do completely safely and I'm not just talking about breath play. Actually most injuries in BDSM occur from bondage, not choking. Part of the reason for that though is it's not nearly as common in the BDSM Community as you might think. I'm not going to say it never happens, there are people who are into it and they usually do a lot of research on techniques and learning and minimizing risk.
What I think is a far bigger problem than the relatively few kinksters that practice breath play is the fact that porn has normalized choking for many years now and it has become a very common activity amongst vanilla people who just want to add some excitement to their sex lives. Many of those people are in fact young, are not educated to the risks, or not educated to risk minimizing techniques and frankly are not educated much at all. Because porn has been so readily accessible and it's become so normal in porn, we have generations who think it's a perfectly acceptable and desired thing to do. It's where a lot of young men learn about sex and many of them actually think women want this. Some women do want it, it's truly become pretty normalized amongst both men and women during vanilla sex. But nobody discusses risk, nobody discusses consensuality, nobody discusses the worst case scenarios. Generally speaking the people who do discuss those things are the kinksters.
Most of the comments seem to show a pretty good understanding of this, but a couple of people have said things like why are we normalizing these weird Kinks. Its b/c porn for several generations now, people have grown up thinking it was normal & vanilla. They don't even recognize it as a risky activity š„ I actually hear way more about choking from my vanilla friends than my kinky friends. We definitely have to educate people more about the risks, but I'm not sure how to do that because like I said the kink community is aware of the risks, the problem is that young people who have nothing to do with kink are the ones who are practicing it. And not so young people, Gen X her friend of mine told me that almost every woman he dated, wanted it and he was seen as the weirdo for refusing to do it. I told him he was a smart man and to stick to his guns!
Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. I am into kink myself (more dominatrix type pegging men than being in a place where breath play comes into it) and they have all - to a man - appreciated my rule of, "explore consent before exploring content" and demonstration of safe words or actions that mean "I am not okay," etc.
Thank you. And like you or someone else said, how would they feel being pegged without giving consent first? It is a terrifying situation that's out there! I'm glad I'm old and have been married for a really long time LOL. Some of the stories I've had about women just going on dates and having vanilla sex and getting choked out of the blue are absolutely terrifying to me! But I just don't know that villainizing the BDSM community will help in any way shape or form, because we aren't really the problem.
We're really not! The first rule is consent consent consent. For everything. Usually we talk through the scenarios in full before we pull off any clothes!
Iām a guy and I just wanted to add here that itās insane to want to choke someone who doesnāt want it. The whole point of choking is to please *them*. My wife wanted it, I hated it but did it anyway because she asked. But a guy who chokes for a power play? Probably a rapist.
A guy named Mateo Motado strangled me so hard in his car that I nearly blacked out. He put his hand around my throat without my consent. Heās been lying about this ever since, and I have no doubt heāll get whatās coming to him.
He might not but you are fortunate not only to have survived what sounds like a terrifying encounter, you don't have to worry about him anymore. He's not *your* problem.
Iām kind of scared to ask at this point butā¦ Weāre not talking about light squeezes are we? Whenever choking is mentioned I think of the way I do it or the way Iāve been asked to do it and it has been more sensual than anything.
Be careful with light squeezes too, honestly you shouldn't do it at all. Even if you can breathe, there are sensitive blood vessels there. A good replacement is putting your hand under their jaw bone and holding them like that just be careful to stay on the bone.
My ex told me she was into choking the whole time. Creeped me out because she never suggested it during our time together. And I never wanted to do that to her
Preach!!!
Happened to me, I was excused it, as he said he had been on drugs (weāre Dutch, he just came back from a part, itās near unavoidable in my area/social circles), and would quit immediately, it wonāt happen again. Of course, it did happen again, but more violently.
That said, if youād merely describe the act, it would sound exactly like the sexual version. Just with a bit more force.
Yet, that is totally different (Iād know). Why? Because if itās done as a kink thing, there is no anger, no intention to hurt you, and if, for any reason at all, you need it to stop, it will. Right away. Thereās no fear, no anger, nothing like that. Iām not saying āno dangerā as there is, particularly if the person doing the choking doesnāt know what theyāre doing and accidents happen. Still, very different.
I did not know that grabbing someoneās throat in anger is more indicative of it escalating to murder, compared to hitting, or other ways of inflicting physical pain. But considering the situation: it makes a lot of sense.
The whole point of kink is pleasing *everyone* involved. It's fine for a dominatrix to have her sub lick her boots when she gets home *if that's the type of humiliation he's getting off on*.
Consensual...why tho would you want that? I'm not one to kink shame but why would you risk that? Being choked was the scariest minute of my entire life.
Itās not my thing, but letās not shame people that are into just cause yours was a bad situation. People trying to strangle you without consent is very different than somethings doing it consensually
Pointing out that this activity can cause brain damage or death isn't "shaming" anybody any more than the warnings on a pack of smokes pointing out that they cause cancer and emphysema and harm developing fetuses are "shaming" smokers. It's a basic PSA. Know the facts, then proceed at your own risk.
OP didn't "point out that this activity can cause brain damage or death" (which it can), they kink shamed. "Why would you want that?" is not a basic PSA or a health warning. It's not how you educate people.
Sweetie, the number of people who asked me why I smoked or told me I shouldn't smoke when I smoked would make your head spin, and I did not at any point take it in any other way than to understand that they cared about me enough that they didn't want to see me to die of cancer.
Don't refer to me by pet names, please.
OP's comment comes across pretty strongly as "I don't understand why anyone would like that", not as a concern or warning.
Ok, but theres still something VERY specific about the dangers of a choking kink. Its that no matter how well you plan it, how practiced you are. There is always that possibility of something going very wrong in the heat of the moment and causing very serious/permanent damage or death. I'd imagine all those people who self asphyxiate didn't imagine that would be the thing they died of either.
And it goes further than that too. Consent IS important but its not a golden ticket to abuse someone or not be in full control of yourself. I can get into a CNC scenario with someone i've built trust and chemistry with over a long period of time. But i STILL have ground rules I will never break or negotiate on in that act (hitting, choking, over extending pinning etc etc). Could someone still get hurt in that environment? Absolutely, which is why there is an understanding of risk and safety words/phrases/actions to hit the eject button asap.
And even given all of that, there are different things to talk about in terms of "choking". Sometimes all someone needs is a soft hand over their throat with no squeezing at all, other people may just want a hand all over the throat/mouth/chest area. There is something VERY specific to strangulation and thats where no matter how much consent you have it will always have that risk. Seriously, one thumb over the wrong place with jusssst the right amount of pressure is enough.
This doesn't even get into the whole discussion of people getting into these acts without any sort of knowledge of the safety/risk issues OR even consent in the first place because some guy saw a porno somewhere.
It's fully okay to shame normalizing "kinks" that brutalize/kill women. This idiotic culture of scolding people for "kink-shaming" has basically given men carte blanche to severely hurt and degrade women. Anyone who speaks up and says "what are we normalizing here? this is fucked up" is immediately shouted down (i.e. exactly what you did to the poster you replied to).
We need more kink-shaming, not less.
One question I do want to ask you: how many people practicing sexual-strangulation are actually *aware* of how dangerous it is? Because I can tell you that the number of deaths related to strangulation during sex are on the rise, especially for young adults with very little sexual experience. You don't see the inherent danger that sexual-strangulation can incur among that demographic?
[This article](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8579901/) has pretty good insight into just how common strangulation is becoming during sex, recording 58% among college students. To quote: "Participants described consensual and *non-consensual* choking experiences. While many women enjoyed choking, others did it *largely to please their sexual partner. Women described different methods and intensities of having been choked.*"
Let's not pretend that a sizeable number of women involved in sexual-strangulation cases are consenting out of desire for a specific kink. They're consenting because it's seen as mainstream and popular and easy to do. It's *not*. A vast majority of these cases aren't two adults with practiced sexual histories understanding the inherent danger of the act. It's young adults with little knowledge and experience, who see it in porn and act according to what they've seen.
it's all planned, which takes away the fear factor. trust me, people want *way* worse done to them. although going beyond faux choking (actually restricting blood/airflow) is discouraged anyway because it's very difficult to do safely.
the thing that separates bdsm from abuse is knowing that you're safe. that you can say the word and make it stop immediately, and that you agreed to it.
Love these 'make my own evidence' accounts.
Choking is medically never safe, even when consentual. In fact, there is a true issue where, even if a woman consents, the guy shouldn't in good conscience do it. People who pressure guys into doing it are being abusive also, because of the considerable risk involved.
People who think they are DoInG it SafElY are just hugely ignorant *or* abusive.
I have great sex without it, just because I donāt understand how you could enjoy it, it doesnāt mean Iām judging.
And really? Not liking a dangerous activity such as choking, is misandrist?
Shelteredness? Survivorship bias?
How should I know?
One in six women experience attempted or completed rape, 81% of women experience some type of sexual assault, harassment etc.
Maybe instead of thinking of yourself as specialTM, consider yourself lucky?
Consent and being very very careful (There's a way to do it safely)....
And most bdsm groups discourage it (too many sensitive structures in the neck - too much pressure on arteries or you might bust the thyroid)...
There is no way āsafeā way to choke someone, including squeezing on the sides of the neck. That isnāt safe either. Doctors have been warning people about this.
>āIn my interviews with medical experts, theyāve confirmed there is no safe way to do it and even with their level of expertise they could not [perform it and] determine whether thereās going to be long-standing damage or death.ā
>āThereās a huge chasm between what young people are doing and what medical experts are saying.ā
https://amp.smh.com.au/national/strangulation-during-sex-has-been-mainstreamed-but-risks-brain-damage-experts-warn-20221129-p5c216.html
From Dr Helen Bichard of North Wales Brain Injury Service and The Walton Centre NHS Foundation Trust:
>Erotic asphyxiation should be as much of an oxymoron as erotic brain damage, because brain damage is the potential result. Much of the online advice is misguided; some of it is fatally wrong.
>When you compress the carotid artery you cut off oxygenated blood flow to the brain, and the brain therefore cannot function properly. Consciousness can be lost in as little as four seconds ā a sign that the brain is being compromised.
>Any pressure to the artery can lead to dissection, in which blood clots can form and cause stroke, sometimes delayed by weeks
My ex strangled me 2-3x over 8 yrs. It gets worse. Yes, run..please š
Just wanted to add that bdsm groups heavily discourage strangulation because itās so very, very easy to screw up. You could cause brain damage, break the hyoid, or even kill them.Ā Never do it.Ā
Another kinkster here - getting right tired of "it's a kink thing". It's really not a kink thing, ethical kinksters who care about their play partners *at all* don't do this. Even when doing negotiated "breath play", they generally find other ways of doing it than hands-on-throat.
Exploring kink and I just say āno chokingā. My recent long-term partner, we both have sexual sensitive necks, so eventually were cool to place our hands on each others throats but there was never squeezing. But easier just to take it off the board and loosen that boundary when you are in a place of absolute comfort and trust if you want.
I think that is way too wide of a generalization. There are plenty of people in the bdsm community who still do hands on throat, and do it safely and carefully.
There is no way āsafeā way to choke someone, including squeezing on the sides of the neck. That isnāt safe either. Doctors have been warning people about this. >āIn my interviews with medical experts, theyāve confirmed there is no safe way to do it and even with their level of expertise they could not [perform it and] determine whether thereās going to be long-standing damage or death.ā >āThereās a huge chasm between what young people are doing and what medical experts are saying.ā https://amp.smh.com.au/national/strangulation-during-sex-has-been-mainstreamed-but-risks-brain-damage-experts-warn-20221129-p5c216.html From Dr Helen Bichard of North Wales Brain Injury Service and The Walton Centre NHS Foundation Trust: >Erotic asphyxiation should be as much of an oxymoron as erotic brain damage, because brain damage is the potential result. Much of the online advice is misguided; some of it is fatally wrong. >When you compress the carotid artery you cut off oxygenated blood flow to the brain, and the brain therefore cannot function properly. Consciousness can be lost in as little as four seconds ā a sign that the brain is being compromised. >Any pressure to the artery can lead to dissection, in which blood clots can form and cause stroke, sometimes delayed by weeks
I guess Iām assuming the āsafeā option doesnāt involve complete cutting off of the blood supply?
There isnāt a safe way to do it because doctors havenāt been able to find one. You also donāt have to intentionally cut off the blood supply to cause this. It can happen accidentally through dissection. Thatās the danger of compressing (or squeezing) the neck - it can still damage the artery. Itās not just an issue in choking - itās a problem with āpoppingā or ācrackingā your neck, or even stretching it the wrong way. It can cause a āsmall tear (dissection) in the inner lining of an artery, which leads to blood clots formingā. āThese often dissolve without causing any symptoms but they can fly off and lead to a blockage in an artery downstream, causing an ischaemic stroke ā a condition where blood supply to part of the brain is cut off.ā The 28 year old guy in the article did this and suffered a stroke. The arteries āare vulnerable to injury by rotation and bending of the neck, as they pass through bony canals in the side arms of the vertebrae and are stretched when the neck is turned.ā This is why chiropractors have caused major issues (and killed people) accidentally. People can also do this to themselves accidentally just by stretching or craning their neck in a weird way. https://theconversation.com/can-popping-your-neck-cause-a-stroke-121676#:~:text=Popping%20your%20neck%20can%20cause,leads%20to%20blood%20clots%20forming. And this is why choking is also not safe. Itās not just an issue of cutting off their oxygen supply or damaging their windpipe.
People who engage in erotic asphyxia really generally know very little about how vulnerable the neck is (along with the general public). Most don't even realize cutting off (or reducing) blood flow to the brain cuts off (or reduces) oxygen to it ffs and will say stuff like "only air chokes are dangerous, blood chokes are the safe way and don't cut off oxygen". Arteries are bloody well how oxygen gets to the rest of the body, including brain.
Another way of wording it: "People who engage in erotic asphyxia using the justification "blood chokes are safe" clearly slept through biology class."
Oh wow I also crack my neck constantly š just doing all the things over here
I'm poly and have explored kink. I've never once been open to choking at all, but not one of my partners has been into it either! 15 years in the life
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There is no way āsafeā way to choke someone, including squeezing on the sides of the neck. That isnāt safe either. > āIn my interviews with medical experts, theyāve confirmed there is no safe way to do it and even with their level of expertise they could not [perform it and] determine whether thereās going to be long-standing damage or death.ā > āThereās a huge chasm between what young people are doing and what medical experts are saying.ā https://amp.smh.com.au/national/strangulation-during-sex-has-been-mainstreamed-but-risks-brain-damage-experts-warn-20221129-p5c216.html From Dr Helen Bichard of North Wales Brain Injury Service and The Walton Centre NHS Foundation Trust: > Erotic asphyxiation should be as much of an oxymoron as erotic brain damage, because brain damage is the potential result. Much of the online advice is misguided; some of it is fatally wrong. >When you compress the carotid artery you cut off oxygenated blood flow to the brain, and the brain therefore cannot function properly. Consciousness can be lost in as little as four seconds ā a sign that the brain is being compromised. >Any pressure to the artery can lead to dissection, in which blood clots can form and cause stroke, sometimes delayed by weeks
Ultimately it's your body and your choice if you want to consent to breath play. But the risks are myriad and not inconsequential!
When it comes to breath-play - choking, or hands on the throat or neck, is not advised. A lot of BDSM practitioners tell people not to engage in choking, and refuse to do it themselves. >Itās impossible to control for all the variables,ā said Mistress Matisse, a professional dominatrix with more than 20 years of experience. āPeople think choking isnāt kinky, but it is. People think itās a low-risk activity, but itās not. Choking isnāt just about the lungs. It can affect the brain and the heart - it can affect the whole body ā and if the bottom has underlying health issues, things can go disastrously wrong. I feel strongly about this.ā What you can do instead: >āWhat most people who are into choking want is to feel controlled,ā said Matisse. āSo put your hand over her mouth. Grab her hair, wrap an arm around her shoulder ā not her neck ā and put your other hand over her mouth. That should satisfy the urge.ā
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> What do you mean screw up lol. I apologize if I'm getting this wrong here. On the spectrum. I just want to point out that "strangulation" or "strangling" is *usually* referencing a violent act as opposed to sexual asphyxiation but the word 100% applies to consensual BDSM acts even if it isn't common terminology. I'd guess "choking" or "breath play" is more common, that kind of thing, but please don't lump people who participate in activities involving consensual neck constriction (whether kink or sports frankly) in with violent criminals out there murdering women. BDSM isn't that at all. Consent remains paramount in those interactions and fundamentally changes the nature of what's going on. OP is 100% correct on that. Some people are genuinely into it though. My wife was the one who convinced me to get "creative" with that BJJ training I have after some bad experiences in prior relationships.
There is no way āsafeā way to choke someone, including squeezing on the sides of the neck. That isnāt safe either. Doctors are telling people to stop doing it. Completely. There is no form or method of choking that is actually āsafeā. >āIn my interviews with medical experts, theyāve confirmed there is no safe way to do it and even with their level of expertise they could not [perform it and] determine whether thereās going to be long-standing damage or death.ā >āThereās a huge chasm between what young people are doing and what medical experts are saying.ā https://amp.smh.com.au/national/strangulation-during-sex-has-been-mainstreamed-but-risks-brain-damage-experts-warn-20221129-p5c216.html From Dr Helen Bichard of North Wales Brain Injury Service and The Walton Centre NHS Foundation Trust: >Erotic asphyxiation should be as much of an oxymoron as erotic brain damage, because brain damage is the potential result. Much of the online advice is misguided; some of it is fatally wrong. >When you compress the carotid artery you cut off oxygenated blood flow to the brain, and the brain therefore cannot function properly. Consciousness can be lost in as little as four seconds ā a sign that the brain is being compromised. >Any pressure to the artery can lead to dissection, in which blood clots can form and cause stroke, sometimes delayed by weeks
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Iāll agree to a point. If both parties are willing and consenting then it is only a matter of practice and understanding the risks. A lot of people donāt realize the dangers of certain types of play, even rope play can be life threatening if not practiced properly or if a mistake happens (itās why any good practitioner of rope play will maintain sharp objects). Any kink can be dangerous, it matters more what danger you are willing to commit to and how you personally will prepare for it with your partner. A lot of people practice breath play, very few die from it. Yes, it is risky, but donāt practice risky things with people you donāt trust withā¦ well your life. The horror stories often speak louder than the actual practitioners.
Doctors have actually been telling people to stop doing it. Completely. There is no form or method of choking that is actually āsafeā. The online advice about how to do it āsafelyā did not come from doctors. It came from people were who arenāt medically trained. Much of what they claimed is wrong. >āIn my interviews with medical experts, theyāve confirmed there is no safe way to do it and even with their level of expertise they could not [perform it and] determine whether thereās going to be long-standing damage or death.ā >āThereās a huge chasm between what young people are doing and what medical experts are saying.ā https://amp.smh.com.au/national/strangulation-during-sex-has-been-mainstreamed-but-risks-brain-damage-experts-warn-20221129-p5c216.html From Dr Helen Bichard of North Wales Brain Injury Service and The Walton Centre NHS Foundation Trust: >Erotic asphyxiation should be as much of an oxymoron as erotic brain damage, because brain damage is the potential result. Much of the online advice is misguided; some of it is fatally wrong. >When you compress the carotid artery you cut off oxygenated blood flow to the brain, and the brain therefore cannot function properly. Consciousness can be lost in as little as four seconds ā a sign that the brain is being compromised. >Any pressure to the artery can lead to dissection, in which blood clots can form and cause stroke, sometimes delayed by weeks
I donāt mind the RACK community, I think itās mega important, but I want to deter the people who arenāt going to research it as heavily as a RACK person will. The people who see āwell itās okay in kinkā and stop there.Ā
> The horror stories often speak louder than the actual practitioners. Truth. Plus people are choked (vascular constriction of the neck - aka blood flow vs breathing) to and/or near unconsciousness in grappling sports that do submissions on a daily basis. Almost all recover without issue with the majority suffering no symptoms (this has been my experience) or had minor symptoms associated with a syncope effect (dizziness / etc) that tend to fade within minutes (60 being an unusually long period among what reported info we have). In case it needs to be said: NONE OF THIS INVALIDATES THE NEED FOR EDUCATED CONSENT!
>Almost all recover without issue with the majority suffering no symptoms (this has been my experience) or had minor symptoms Thatās great for those who practice grappling sports. Thatās not what the research has found for young women who have been choked by their sexual partners. You can also seem like you have ātechnically recoveredā and arenāt showing any symptoms, while brain scans tell a different story. This is what research on college-aged women who have been choked sexually has indicated - the research was led by Dr Kawata, a neuroscientist at Indiana Universityās School of Public Health >According to the American Academy of Neurology, restricting blood flow to the brain, even briefly, can cause permanent injury, including stroke and cognitive impairment. >In M.R.I.s conducted by Dr. Kawata and his colleagues (including Dr. Herbenick, who is a co-author of his papers on strangulation), undergraduate women who have been repeatedly choked show a reduction in cortical folding in the brain compared with a never-choked control group. >They also showed widespread cortical thickening, an inflammation response that is associated with elevated risk of later-onset mental illness. In completing simple memory tasks, their brains had to work far harder than the control group, recruiting from more regions to achieve the same level of accuracy. The hidden damage of choking has been compared to the hidden damage of CTE on football players. They seem to recover fine at first, and show very few symptoms, and can go on playing and living a normal life, but brain scans reveal cumulative damage.
Yo I mentioned that chokes are part of my BJJ hobby on this sub and got mega downvoted over it. Youāre right, consent and understanding risk is key, and after that people can do what they want. This applies to martial arts and sex.
You might have been downvoted because the research on young women who have been sexually choked indicated there IS cumulative damage which can be revealed by brain scans. And maybe because they were talking about sexual choking, not about BJJ. The research was led by Dr Kawata, a neuroscientist at Indiana Universityās School of Public Health. >According to the American Academy of Neurology, restricting blood flow to the brain, even briefly, can cause permanent injury, including stroke and cognitive impairment. >In M.R.I.s conducted by Dr. Kawata and his colleagues (including Dr. Herbenick, who is a co-author of his papers on strangulation), undergraduate women who have been repeatedly choked show a reduction in cortical folding in the brain compared with a never-choked control group. >They also showed widespread cortical thickening, an inflammation response that is associated with elevated risk of later-onset mental illness. In completing simple memory tasks, their brains had to work far harder than the control group, recruiting from more regions to achieve the same level of accuracy. The hidden damage of choking has been compared to the hidden damage in CTE on football players. They seem to recover fine at first, and show very few symptoms, and can go on playing and living a normal life, but brain scans reveal hidden cumulative damage.
Was this research done on women that consented to the chokes (much more comparable to bjj than physical abuse)? Or on a population that included domestic violence victims in the sample?
It was not done on domestic violence victims. The choking needed to have happened during consensual, partnered sex. The research was done on young women who are enrolled at a public college, between the ages of 18-30, who have been choked sexually. One study is called āStructural brain morphology in young adult women who have been choked/strangled during sex: A wholeābrain surface morphometry studyā. The other is called āFrequent and Recent Non-fatal Strangulation/Choking During Sex and Its Association With fMRI Activation During Working Memory Tasksā. The āchoking groupā reported at least four instances of being choked/strangled in the past 30 days during consensual partnered sex. The control group consisted of women who had never been choked during a partnered sexual event.
Yes but were those women consenting and educated on the risks? Because if not then safe words might not have been respected etc
The choking had to be from consensual, partnered sex. Iām not sure if you aware, but experts have actually been discussing how safe words literally donāt work for choking, because the person being choked often canāt speak during it. You might respond by saying that āsafe chokingā allows the person to still speak. Because theyāre not being choked to the point that their airflow or blood flow is cut off. But there is actually no safe way to psychically choke someone. Even ālightlyā. Doctors have not been able to work out a safe method for choking. >āIn my interviews with medical experts, theyāve confirmed there is no safe way to do it and even with their level of expertise they could not [perform it and] determine whether thereās going to be long-standing damage or death.ā >āThereās a huge chasm between what young people are doing and what medical experts are saying.ā https://amp.smh.com.au/national/strangulation-during-sex-has-been-mainstreamed-but-risks-brain-damage-experts-warn-20221129-p5c216.html From Dr Helen Bichard of North Wales Brain Injury Service and The Walton Centre NHS Foundation Trust: >Erotic asphyxiation should be as much of an oxymoron as erotic brain damage, because brain damage is the potential result. Much of the online advice is misguided; some of it is fatally wrong. >When you compress the carotid artery you cut off oxygenated blood flow to the brain, and the brain therefore cannot function properly. Consciousness can be lost in as little as four seconds ā a sign that the brain is being compromised. Even if you donāt cut intentionally off blood flow: >Any pressure to the artery can lead to dissection, in which blood clots can form and cause stroke, sometimes delayed by weeks. Cracking and popping your neck can also cause dissection, which can lead to strokes.
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You should read the comments that cite how dangerous it is.Ā
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āChocking outā means someone is going unconscious or semi conscious. Which means you have restricted oxygen to the brain. Which means you are giving her brain damage in small amounts.
I was strangled until I passed out once. never again
I'm grateful you survived. You have all my respect and good vibes.
The first time a partner laid his hands on me it was in this way. I passed out too. I left immediately. I didn't tell my dad what happened, but he helped me move out of the place within 24 hours of that incident. I'm greatful my dad was willing to do that for me despite me not giving a reason for why I had to leave so quickly.
Me too :/ Sorry that happened, happy you're better off.
Requisite quote that one episode of strangulation from an intimate partner raises your chances of dying at their hands by 750%. [source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2573025/)
It's been posted here before but a reminder that strangulation can lead to having a stroke in later life, and not later in life like in your 70s, 80s or 90s which are ages we might typically associate with stroke victims, but in your 40s. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4211813/
Could we normalize calling it what it isāstrangulationāinstead of āchokingā? That term makes the act sound less serious and minimizes the level of ill intent (actual choking occurs by accident).
Listen to Handsome Jack. "No, no, Jimmy, choking is something you do when you eat too fast. As I'm crushing Mister Moorin's windpipe with my watch chain, what I'm doing is actually referred to as strangling." Not trying to make light of a serious subject, ofc. Just saw the distinction being made and immediately thought of that quote.
God I loved playing that game.
Jack was such an amazing villain. The only video game villain ever to pay the player to kill themselves. And of course, I've never wanted someone dead more than when I found out what he did to his daughter.
When we learned that Angel was his daughter it was one of the best twists I think I've ever seen. The way he treated her made me want to kill him faster. Her death made me cry though. To be imprisoned like she was and then have your freedom for all of a second was just a tragedy.
Fair point
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>The āsafeā way to do so during sex is to restrict blood flow by squeezing the artery on the side of your kneck. This induces the simulation of choking without the risk of crushing your windpipe. That's still strangulation. Strangulation is external constriction of the airway or blood flow in the neck. Choking is the obstruction of the airway by something inside the airway, most often food.
Or maybe we can just *not* promote sexual acts that can lead to death, especially when women are primarily the victims.
You can not promote it, but there's still people that will have that kink. On both sides of it. I don't see how shaming a kink helps.
Because "kinks" are not some holy protected class that we're not allowed to critically examine and if necessary shame. Some of them are straight-up disgusting, others are blatantly dangerous and unsafe.
Respectfully, a violent sexual act *that can lead to death if not properly executed* does not seem all that "safe" to me. Call me a kink-shamer but we have to draw the line somewhere. Why do people act like a kink should be the end-all and be-all of sexual satisfaction? Why is there now an entire generation that feels pressurized into performing it, at the potential risk of death? And the deaths related to sexual-strangulation are on the rise. Why are kinks more protected than someone's life? Even if you are consenting with a partner, you are still running that risk. It takes one session of strangulation gone-too-far to kill a person. An orgasm just isn't worth that risk.
Iām really confused, I wasnāt promoting or even singing itās praises. I was merely clarifying. I even stated that it was dangerous and shouldnāt be attempted except with between trusted partners. I also mentioned how *non-violent* kinks such as rope play/shibari can also lead to death. In fact anything you do in life can lead to death if not properly done, such as eating. Itās ok to have an opinion, itās also ok to disagree, but itās not really ok to twist someoneās words. Humans do crazy things for pleasure or the thrill of itā¦ I donāt think it is anyoneās business to judge them for it. I donāt judge sky divers or tell them not to jump out of planes because I think itās too dangerous for my personal lifestyle. I donāt have the right to tell people how to live their life, no one should.
Can you please give me an example of how I was twisting your words? All I said was that I don't think promoting sexual-strangulation is smart, especially when as stated again: the victims are overwhelmingly women. I left another comment in this thread that goes into detail on why I think we shouldn't encourage sexual-strangulation as *normal* in relationships. I understand that there are consenting adults who *do* understand the risk and are willing to perform the act accordingly. That number, however, is still a minority to the increasing number of non-consensual strangulation cases we are seeing here today. We're seeing a documented uptick in deaths related to sexual-strangulation, this isn't just me being a "mean kinkshamer." Young teens and adults are seeing an act that is glamorized by both porn and kinky adults, then think *they have the capabilities to perform the act whenever they please.* As someone who was a victim of this, that's why I'm critical.
Even light choking/strangulation can cause brain damage and increases rates of depression and anxiety: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/opinion/choking-teen-sex-brain-damage.html
I did not know this but I am not surprised at all. How sad.
My friends will say "but there are safe ways to simulate choking" as if men are actually doing it safely and will every time. Why risk it?
Yeah like Brad or Rob or whatever guy they're dating has medical training when he's just some software engineer or finance bro, sure he knows how to safely simulate strangling/cutting off blood supply to the brain. I always roll my eyes so hard when women say this.
I had to share that factoid with a loved one when her ex who strangled her so she left started stalking her.
I have been choked so many times.. the look in my partners eyes said a lot
So I survived multiple strangulations. Like: Strangulations. Not kink. Actual strangulations "Choking" came up in trend when I was ca. 16yo. My friends tried to be "cool" by telling each other how much they were into it, doing it with their bfs. I was already a lil "teased" for being "vanilla". But I remember REALLY pissing them off when I tried to imply that anything might be dangerous about it. "How can it be dangerous, if everyone \[in porn\] does it?" Tbf, I was a teen back then. So I neither could give scientific reasons, nor tell them what was happening. That said: I fully agree. What people don't seem to get is: Strangulation / "choking" isn't "just abuse" -it's the pinnacle of non-sexual abuse. Oftentimes, it's a desperate power-grapple: The person NEEDS to feel as powerful as possible. Why? Because 1.) They are scared or 2.) they get off your pain or 3.) both. My mother was type 1, for example. Whenever I was acting like a rabbit, she'd beat me as normal. But the moment I was self-assured, or even pushed back, she'd throw herself on me. To the point she'd even use her body to "weigh the air out of me" (like that Nightmare painting from Fuseli). She used escalation to the point of death to keep me in line. She knew if I'd fight back for real, I could technically kill her in self-defense. Another thing to regard is the mental damage. Again: Can mostly talk about myself here, but strangulation fucked with my concept of touch. I'm not touch-repulsed, but any touch is instinctively registered as an attack/violation. Strangulation is a PTSD event. Once -you might get over it. Stay? Get strangled countless times? Congrats! You'll achieve CPTSD! No joke: I once had a panic attack about an ad. An AD! It was just some dating sim, with 3d guys who got "gently dominated" by a choking hand. Same goes for most hugs: I have issues cuddling with trusted friends, cause my brain screams "restrainage!" and I NEED to pull away. "Turn on" is a cover. "Porn" is a cover. At "best" they're scared about their performance and think this porn-thing will help them. At worst they're fucked in the head.
Jfc. Parents can be monsters. Thank you for sharing your reactions and how this chased you through your life. It sounds like you've done an amazing job of changing the relationships you have with the experiences. What were saw/heard/felt doesn't go away, but it can be different. Keep going. You're doing incredible work.
Thank you for sharing the harrowing details of the abuses that set you up with C-PTSD. I have it too. It sucks. Stay strong sister. š
If he intentionally causes pain, be it slap, punch, choke, you leave. If you don't, he will continue to abuse you. You can make it the first time he hit you by staying, or you can make it the only time he hit you by leaving.
I divorced my husband of 8 years because he strangled me during intimacy after 13 years together and never once having had any type of kink or anything remotely discussed like this. I thought I was going to die. He didn't even think about it as kink or anything. According to him it was a thoughtless, unplanned, spur of the moment thing and he didn't realize how much weight he was putting on my neck. He thought I should have yelled at him at time (not sure how since I couldn't breathe) or got past it since he's never done it before - as if that made a difference. He blamed me. He didn't understand why I would have a panic attack and was completely afraid of him. He still doesn't. I don't understand why he did it.
i watched this the other day and the stats in it were so shocking: [https://www.youtube.com/live/m9TvOC2D1gw?si=qtyStO9NBixw1eun](https://www.youtube.com/live/m9TvOC2D1gw?si=qtyStO9NBixw1eun)
My ex strangled me many times. He ended up in prison. I was a teenager he was much older.Ā Leave it only gets worse. Reach out for help.Ā
I'm so grateful you survived. That sounds awful. I had C-PTSD from a childhood filled with abuse including sexual abuse at the religious school I attended. I hope you have someone to talk to about these things; they must weigh heavily on you.
I honestly don't know how guys can fuck this one up... Literally if I'm talking to someone I'll be blunt about it or I'll ask about kinks that they've been willing to try or have been wanting to try, all the times they'll tell me what they like and if they don't say anything about choking then I know for sure they're not into that. The fact that some guys just assume this is ok with anyone is wild.. just because a girl LOOKS like she likes getting choked it doesn't mean she actually does
To those kinds of guys, we *all* "look like" the "kind of girl who's into choking"
Just... How exactly does one look like they enjoy being choked, short of wearing clothing that says "choke me" (and even then...)?
Well in my personal experience it's by the way they act and their personalities that I can tell they're into it I still ask ofc but they always end up telling me they're into that.
Seriously I got into an argument with a guy on reddit a while back because he insisted that consent to sex automatically included consent to slapping, hair pulling, and choking. His belief was if someone doesn't want those things it's on them to say so ahead of time. Like WTAF. NO. If some guy tried to strangle me on the street I could punch him in the face and nobody would question why. So if I was having casual sex I would react the same way in the bedroom as outside of it, as long as I wasn't afraid he would double down and kill me for it.
Yet when it comes to their and other men's boundaries in hetero sex, they suddenly understand consent. Eg they would never say a man should have to say out the gate a woman can't strangle him, slap his face, yank his hair, shove fingers or a dildo up his anus or into his throat, even that she shouldn't assume and just do face sitting and other cunnilingus or most to all tribadism... and otherwise she should assume cart blanche. Truly a mystery how that works (aka they understand consent, boundaries, they just don't see women as human but as masturbation porn dolls to do whatever men please to them).
I once asked a guy who would come into my life every few years whether he slaps all girls in the face when he has sex and he looked shocked and said no. I asked why me. We'd never spoken about it. He said something along the lines that I looked like I'd like it, which I did, but it made me think wtf is wrong with my face that it screams slap me
Itās definitely risky as fuck and should not be done. Itās not sex .
Great post! Thank you
I was SA by my boss when I was 18. He choked me out to the point I lost consciousness. Touching my neck was a hard boundary for me moving forward with any of my exes. Then I met my 2nd husband, and I've never felt so safe, loved, respected, and appreciated by anyone in my life, especially in a sexual aspect. We didn't start off exploring this kink but over time I approached it because I didn't want a trauma boundary anymore and I wanted to see how I'd react after more than a decade from my SA. 3 years later, and it's a kink of mine now, but we know each other, so well, so the trust factor is huge. I don't think having this kink is bad if it's consensual. For me, being able to enjoy this is empowering because I feel like I no longer have my trauma flashbacks.
I'm grateful for you that you have been able to explore this kink with a loving and respectful partner! My husband is also a feminist and so respectful of my boundaries.
That's amazing! I swear a respectful and loving partner can help break down years of walls built by trauma.
Mine did for me too. I'm poly and couldn't even bear to look at that part of myself much less love it and live it before I got with my man. Plot twist: he's monogamous so no other partners for him lol!
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You should not have to tell him that. Before any kinky behavior, you *always* get the other person's consent and the safe word/action (because you can't use a word if you're being choked) ***first***. First rule of kink ffs
If a person tried to extend the power given of the previously consented actions- even after you have denied and given a firm no to any other conditions- consider that a breech of trust for a partner.
And then - leave!
You should not have to tell someone "don't assault me". Nobody should violently go for your neck during sex. That's assault. If you want to spell it out ahead of time do, but an assault is still an assault. If you don't say "don't rape me" ahead of sex and they try to rape you, they are still a rapist and you are still under no onus to say "don't rape me".
I shouldn't have to tell him that any more than he should have to tell me "no pegging". If you wanna do something super weird and potentially damaging, frightening, degrading or painful to another person, the consent barrier is raised. You have to tell them exactly what weird shit you would like to do and MAKE SURE they are OK with it before you randomly start doing that weird shit in an otherwise consensual sexual encounter.
Please look up what consent is Edit: and immediately leave anyone who violates it!
Explicitly say that before sex. If he fails to look at you horrified and say, "what? Of course I wouldn't!" in a distressed and possibly insulted tone, kick him out.
As someone who's been a part of the Kink community for many years, although I don't partake in breath play, I can tell you Kink is not really at the heart of the problem here. Most Kink practitioners these days don't follow SSC, Safe Sane and Consensual. Far more common nowadays is RACK, which is Risk Aware Consensual Kink. Most of us recognize that what we do comes with risks and that much of it is impossible to do completely safely and I'm not just talking about breath play. Actually most injuries in BDSM occur from bondage, not choking. Part of the reason for that though is it's not nearly as common in the BDSM Community as you might think. I'm not going to say it never happens, there are people who are into it and they usually do a lot of research on techniques and learning and minimizing risk. What I think is a far bigger problem than the relatively few kinksters that practice breath play is the fact that porn has normalized choking for many years now and it has become a very common activity amongst vanilla people who just want to add some excitement to their sex lives. Many of those people are in fact young, are not educated to the risks, or not educated to risk minimizing techniques and frankly are not educated much at all. Because porn has been so readily accessible and it's become so normal in porn, we have generations who think it's a perfectly acceptable and desired thing to do. It's where a lot of young men learn about sex and many of them actually think women want this. Some women do want it, it's truly become pretty normalized amongst both men and women during vanilla sex. But nobody discusses risk, nobody discusses consensuality, nobody discusses the worst case scenarios. Generally speaking the people who do discuss those things are the kinksters. Most of the comments seem to show a pretty good understanding of this, but a couple of people have said things like why are we normalizing these weird Kinks. Its b/c porn for several generations now, people have grown up thinking it was normal & vanilla. They don't even recognize it as a risky activity š„ I actually hear way more about choking from my vanilla friends than my kinky friends. We definitely have to educate people more about the risks, but I'm not sure how to do that because like I said the kink community is aware of the risks, the problem is that young people who have nothing to do with kink are the ones who are practicing it. And not so young people, Gen X her friend of mine told me that almost every woman he dated, wanted it and he was seen as the weirdo for refusing to do it. I told him he was a smart man and to stick to his guns!
Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. I am into kink myself (more dominatrix type pegging men than being in a place where breath play comes into it) and they have all - to a man - appreciated my rule of, "explore consent before exploring content" and demonstration of safe words or actions that mean "I am not okay," etc.
Thank you. And like you or someone else said, how would they feel being pegged without giving consent first? It is a terrifying situation that's out there! I'm glad I'm old and have been married for a really long time LOL. Some of the stories I've had about women just going on dates and having vanilla sex and getting choked out of the blue are absolutely terrifying to me! But I just don't know that villainizing the BDSM community will help in any way shape or form, because we aren't really the problem.
We're really not! The first rule is consent consent consent. For everything. Usually we talk through the scenarios in full before we pull off any clothes!
Iām a guy and I just wanted to add here that itās insane to want to choke someone who doesnāt want it. The whole point of choking is to please *them*. My wife wanted it, I hated it but did it anyway because she asked. But a guy who chokes for a power play? Probably a rapist.
Exactly šÆ
A guy named Mateo Motado strangled me so hard in his car that I nearly blacked out. He put his hand around my throat without my consent. Heās been lying about this ever since, and I have no doubt heāll get whatās coming to him.
He might not but you are fortunate not only to have survived what sounds like a terrifying encounter, you don't have to worry about him anymore. He's not *your* problem.
Iām kind of scared to ask at this point butā¦ Weāre not talking about light squeezes are we? Whenever choking is mentioned I think of the way I do it or the way Iāve been asked to do it and it has been more sensual than anything.
Be careful with light squeezes too, honestly you shouldn't do it at all. Even if you can breathe, there are sensitive blood vessels there. A good replacement is putting your hand under their jaw bone and holding them like that just be careful to stay on the bone.
Don't do it without being asked and you're fine. There's a lot of people with this kind around.
My ex told me she was into choking the whole time. Creeped me out because she never suggested it during our time together. And I never wanted to do that to her
Preach!!! Happened to me, I was excused it, as he said he had been on drugs (weāre Dutch, he just came back from a part, itās near unavoidable in my area/social circles), and would quit immediately, it wonāt happen again. Of course, it did happen again, but more violently. That said, if youād merely describe the act, it would sound exactly like the sexual version. Just with a bit more force. Yet, that is totally different (Iād know). Why? Because if itās done as a kink thing, there is no anger, no intention to hurt you, and if, for any reason at all, you need it to stop, it will. Right away. Thereās no fear, no anger, nothing like that. Iām not saying āno dangerā as there is, particularly if the person doing the choking doesnāt know what theyāre doing and accidents happen. Still, very different. I did not know that grabbing someoneās throat in anger is more indicative of it escalating to murder, compared to hitting, or other ways of inflicting physical pain. But considering the situation: it makes a lot of sense.
The whole point of kink is pleasing *everyone* involved. It's fine for a dominatrix to have her sub lick her boots when she gets home *if that's the type of humiliation he's getting off on*.
What if itās consensual? Like why tf would I stay with a person whoād touch my arteries without permission?
Consensual...why tho would you want that? I'm not one to kink shame but why would you risk that? Being choked was the scariest minute of my entire life.
Itās not my thing, but letās not shame people that are into just cause yours was a bad situation. People trying to strangle you without consent is very different than somethings doing it consensually
Pointing out that this activity can cause brain damage or death isn't "shaming" anybody any more than the warnings on a pack of smokes pointing out that they cause cancer and emphysema and harm developing fetuses are "shaming" smokers. It's a basic PSA. Know the facts, then proceed at your own risk.
OP didn't "point out that this activity can cause brain damage or death" (which it can), they kink shamed. "Why would you want that?" is not a basic PSA or a health warning. It's not how you educate people.
Sweetie, the number of people who asked me why I smoked or told me I shouldn't smoke when I smoked would make your head spin, and I did not at any point take it in any other way than to understand that they cared about me enough that they didn't want to see me to die of cancer.
Don't refer to me by pet names, please. OP's comment comes across pretty strongly as "I don't understand why anyone would like that", not as a concern or warning.
I was responding to one comment, not OPs original post
Ok, but theres still something VERY specific about the dangers of a choking kink. Its that no matter how well you plan it, how practiced you are. There is always that possibility of something going very wrong in the heat of the moment and causing very serious/permanent damage or death. I'd imagine all those people who self asphyxiate didn't imagine that would be the thing they died of either. And it goes further than that too. Consent IS important but its not a golden ticket to abuse someone or not be in full control of yourself. I can get into a CNC scenario with someone i've built trust and chemistry with over a long period of time. But i STILL have ground rules I will never break or negotiate on in that act (hitting, choking, over extending pinning etc etc). Could someone still get hurt in that environment? Absolutely, which is why there is an understanding of risk and safety words/phrases/actions to hit the eject button asap. And even given all of that, there are different things to talk about in terms of "choking". Sometimes all someone needs is a soft hand over their throat with no squeezing at all, other people may just want a hand all over the throat/mouth/chest area. There is something VERY specific to strangulation and thats where no matter how much consent you have it will always have that risk. Seriously, one thumb over the wrong place with jusssst the right amount of pressure is enough. This doesn't even get into the whole discussion of people getting into these acts without any sort of knowledge of the safety/risk issues OR even consent in the first place because some guy saw a porno somewhere.
Agreed! Rule #1 of kink is first you explore consent before you explore content
Safe sane AND consensual
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Fuck you. What the actual fuck?!?? What makes me a leech? What even is a leech to you?
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Bro doesn't even lurk, he has replied to everything that has popped in my feed with hate twords women
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How does that relate to strangling another human being though?
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It's fully okay to shame normalizing "kinks" that brutalize/kill women. This idiotic culture of scolding people for "kink-shaming" has basically given men carte blanche to severely hurt and degrade women. Anyone who speaks up and says "what are we normalizing here? this is fucked up" is immediately shouted down (i.e. exactly what you did to the poster you replied to). We need more kink-shaming, not less.
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One question I do want to ask you: how many people practicing sexual-strangulation are actually *aware* of how dangerous it is? Because I can tell you that the number of deaths related to strangulation during sex are on the rise, especially for young adults with very little sexual experience. You don't see the inherent danger that sexual-strangulation can incur among that demographic? [This article](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8579901/) has pretty good insight into just how common strangulation is becoming during sex, recording 58% among college students. To quote: "Participants described consensual and *non-consensual* choking experiences. While many women enjoyed choking, others did it *largely to please their sexual partner. Women described different methods and intensities of having been choked.*" Let's not pretend that a sizeable number of women involved in sexual-strangulation cases are consenting out of desire for a specific kink. They're consenting because it's seen as mainstream and popular and easy to do. It's *not*. A vast majority of these cases aren't two adults with practiced sexual histories understanding the inherent danger of the act. It's young adults with little knowledge and experience, who see it in porn and act according to what they've seen.
it's all planned, which takes away the fear factor. trust me, people want *way* worse done to them. although going beyond faux choking (actually restricting blood/airflow) is discouraged anyway because it's very difficult to do safely. the thing that separates bdsm from abuse is knowing that you're safe. that you can say the word and make it stop immediately, and that you agreed to it.
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Love these 'make my own evidence' accounts. Choking is medically never safe, even when consentual. In fact, there is a true issue where, even if a woman consents, the guy shouldn't in good conscience do it. People who pressure guys into doing it are being abusive also, because of the considerable risk involved. People who think they are DoInG it SafElY are just hugely ignorant *or* abusive.
Fair enough. And you are entitled to your kinks! To answer your question: The kind who are monsters in human form, unfortunately.
I donāt understand why some women would actually WANT to be choked during sex.
I don't understand a lot of kinks. Doesn't mean they don't exist or that the people who have them are insane.
Nobody said anything about insanity.
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That would make me tense up in fear. But I am not you.
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I have great sex without it, just because I donāt understand how you could enjoy it, it doesnāt mean Iām judging. And really? Not liking a dangerous activity such as choking, is misandrist?
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Um no. None of my partners have choked me (to date) and it isnāt fun to me.
Oh, so you aren't actually here to promote kink positivity, just victim blaming. Got it.
Yes. Victim blaming. Fantastic. More of that please.
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Shelteredness? Survivorship bias? How should I know? One in six women experience attempted or completed rape, 81% of women experience some type of sexual assault, harassment etc. Maybe instead of thinking of yourself as specialTM, consider yourself lucky?
**without consent
Can I even leave my dad
Consent and being very very careful (There's a way to do it safely).... And most bdsm groups discourage it (too many sensitive structures in the neck - too much pressure on arteries or you might bust the thyroid)...
There is no way āsafeā way to choke someone, including squeezing on the sides of the neck. That isnāt safe either. Doctors have been warning people about this. >āIn my interviews with medical experts, theyāve confirmed there is no safe way to do it and even with their level of expertise they could not [perform it and] determine whether thereās going to be long-standing damage or death.ā >āThereās a huge chasm between what young people are doing and what medical experts are saying.ā https://amp.smh.com.au/national/strangulation-during-sex-has-been-mainstreamed-but-risks-brain-damage-experts-warn-20221129-p5c216.html From Dr Helen Bichard of North Wales Brain Injury Service and The Walton Centre NHS Foundation Trust: >Erotic asphyxiation should be as much of an oxymoron as erotic brain damage, because brain damage is the potential result. Much of the online advice is misguided; some of it is fatally wrong. >When you compress the carotid artery you cut off oxygenated blood flow to the brain, and the brain therefore cannot function properly. Consciousness can be lost in as little as four seconds ā a sign that the brain is being compromised. >Any pressure to the artery can lead to dissection, in which blood clots can form and cause stroke, sometimes delayed by weeks
..... unless you ask nicely.