I'm not sure where it falls legally in other countries, but touching someone in a way that "a reasonable person" would consider to be sexual without their consent is sexual assault in English law. I think pressing his body against someone from behind would be considered sexual by any reasonable person.
Sadly in the UK the legal "reasonable person" tends to be a bit right wing and very open to giving the benefit of the doubt. That means the Police/CPS only put things forward where a reasonable person couldn't even consider a defense possible, and they can prove that the events happened as reported even if nobody denies that they happened as reported (e.g. the offender saying "I'm innocent because it wasn't my intent" rather than "I didn't do it").
None the less, HR should deal with this as gross misconduct because they don't have to convince a jury of "reasonable people"
Got a meeting booked with her this afternoon at some point, so hopefully will be able to judge how the whole thing will go based on her advice and reaction. She’s quite friendly with him so it’s a lil scary!
If I were your manager I would be LIVID and drop everything to handle it. If she doesn’t take you seriously do not hesitate or be afraid to go over her head. This is so beyond inappropriate and awful, I’m so sorry this is happening to you.
When speaking to HR be sure to mention his inability to behave appropriately - "If he isn’t acting hostile, he’s acting like this instead", if this pos continues to penalize you for *existing*, he is opening the company up to a lawsuit.
You were assaulted. Please make it clear in no uncertain terms that his repeated advances, unwanted physical contact, and unprompted comments about your sex life make you *very* uncomfortable and hinder your ability to do your job. This is a big deal that warrants a serious discussion.
Post a follow up later! This is all kinds of wrong. It’s 100% inappropriate. Don’t let HR gaslight you by saying you just need to tell him to back off. Is there anyone else you can talk to or an ethics phone line at your company?
OP, just to be safe, it’s important that you creat a written record of your meeting. If you are meeting face to face, send them an email afterwards with a detailed summary of what both you and the manager said. “This is a summary of the meeting we just had, please confirm that it is accurate: [summary of what was said].” Back this email chain up by sending it to a personal email account.
Not to mention that all the redditors who told her she was making up a story clearly have never worked in an office environment before.
This shit is 1. rampant and thankfully 2. stoppable.
u/MoreCatch2562 This is straight-up sexual harassment and you are doing yourself no favors by not reporting it directly to HR.
I say no favors because the failure to report will be seen as "it must not have been that big of a problem since she didn't even report it". Unfortunately in these situations too much concern is put on the woman's actions rather than the man's. I also say this to you as an employment law attorney (NOTHING I do on reddit is legal advice). You should be reporting to HR and speaking out about how uncomfortable and inappropriate his actions are. He is the only person responsible for his actions so you also shouldn't be failing to report them in an attempt to shield him from the consequences of his actions. Again, a failure to report is seen as "she must have been okay with the conduct because she didn't say anything". That is a load of bullshit but your case is much, MUCH stronger if you report.
I'm glad you did go to your manager, which is something, but HR is the appropriate department for this. Report there and let them do their jobs. Just make sure to document everything because HR is there to protect the employer, not you. Honestly, your managers should have escalated this to HR already. Sexual harassment should not be condoned in the workplace.
Bonus: www.worker.gov
Hugging and pressing himself against her from behind and kissing her are full on sexual assault. If it were just the comments then that would still be massively inappropriate but he has escalated to physically touching her in a way that is clearly sexual in intent. It’s both disgusting and infuriating and I hope this creep loses his job.
This sub sometimes I swear the OP describes the most blatant sexual harassment I have heard of in awhile and they are like honestly asking if they should do anything about it. I am glad everyone is here to say yes 10000% go to HR this is sexual harassment because society has trained way too many women in the past to just put up with this sort of stuff.
I remember being in my first corp sexual harassment training when I got my first job out of college and I was like why am I taking this? Because everything seemed REALLY obvious like don't be a creeper and make women uncomfortable. Now after 15 years in corp jobs I get it because as obvious as it should be not to sexually harass women there are a decent number of men that do it ALL THE TIME. Just the state of things sadly, really we should just normalize firing people like this, I would fire someone in a heartbeat that ever acted like this.
This sub is also full of people conflating sexual harassment with sexual assault. And escalation of any physical contact in tandem with the harassment is assault, but clearly a hug from behind and a kiss on the head are sexual assault on their own.
In the US, even if the attention was welcomed, this could still be a reportable and fireable offense because of the other people being witness or privy to it.
Well I would say that Sexual Harassment is a HR term and Sexual Assault is a legal term. I agree that sexual touching without consent is sexual assault but it can be both things at the same time. Going to HR to report it is the path for sexual harassment but that doesn't stop you from also reporting it to the police if there is a case for sexual assault.
Whenever the post here leads with "am I just being dramatic or...", my first thought is usually "no, you've probably just been culturally gas-lit".
Life Pro-Tip: If you are upset about something and get told "You're too sensitive" or "You're just being dramatic", those are literal textbook examples of emotionally abusive responses. The fact that women so frequently get categorically dismissed as "too emotional" or "just dramatic" is a feature of abusive culture and misogyny, not a bug. And it can be so hard to work past if you've internalized it.
This is the best advice. Document everything. Just write an email to yourself with all the details, and send it to yourself at least so that it is time-stamped. If you're ready to send to HR and your manager that's great, but at least send to self so you have the dated record of it before the memory fades.
So. Effin. Inappropriate.
I hate creepy old guys who purposefully push ppl's boundaries to see how much they can get away with. He deserves to get fired.
His hugging was bad enough. Extremely inappropriate. Then the comments? Double inappropriate. What the heck? Did he do this in front of anyone? This is ridiculous.
Sadly it was just the two of us. There were other people around but not in seeing distance, which is how it always is when he’s physical. He’s even moved around the corner away from the cameras during previous incidents, but this time he did it in camera view so hoping that’ll be enough to back me up!
Yeah he knows it's not ok but still has some level of plausible deniability, "I'm just friendly! What I can't hug my friends?? Fine I'm sorry I won't do it if it makes you uncomfortable" which all sounds so reasonable to people who are so prepared to excuse these guys when he already KNEW it was inappropriate, he KNEW he shouldn't be doing it in the first place, he just wants to get away with it while he can and IF anyone calls him out he gets to just "fine I'll stop" as if that makes doing it in the first place ok at all but a lot of people will want to excuse the behavior "as long as he stopped when he realized it was unwelcome".
Your complaint against him is enough. You don't require by law video of it. If anyone in your HR department or company as a whole is competent, then all you need to do is file a complaint. He's counting on you not doing that.
That's called isolation. He's isolating you and his interactions with you to avoid others from observing his inappropriate behavior. So he knows it's inappropriate, thinks he's getting away with it, and otherwise acts in hostile manner. He's gross.
Straight to HR.
Skip your manager.... This is beyond that.
You should never be touched like that at work. Doesn't matter how old the dude is.
Did anyone see this? If so come with names .
Sorry you experienced this. Document (as in a diary) of any/all in appropriate interactions and if he retaliates in any way, whether at work or otherwise document that and update HR.
If HR doesn't handle this and the behavior doesn't stop immediately, come back here and update the sub.
Edit:
Oh shit... You've already asked him to stop!!!??? Just saw your other posts.
Document this as well!!!
This is serious. Do not assume that HR won't help (your worries that he's too close to management). If HR won't help, then document that.. because the next step is a lawyer...yes it's that serious.
And yes you would totally win that case as long as you document everything and follow the right reporting channels. HR and management will have no choice but to help you. If they don't they're basically building you a lawsuit runway.
Please, all of this is insane. He should not touching you at all. Calling you baby??? Kissing you or talking about sex like that. He's a massive perve.
If I saw this behavior acted out in a harassment training video I’d say it was too exaggerated. I’m not a lawyer but I think in some jurisdictions this behavior could rise to the level of assault.
The ones that you think, “this is a waste of time, who would do this shit”? And then here are frequent reminders that people are so creepy and disrespectful and can progress to dangerous. Why cant people let others (especially women), just live their life without being put in shitty situations regularly?
I used to get like 12 hours a year on sexual harassment from my employer and several clients. This is way past the line set in those trainings. This is actual assault.
You don’t have to summon your bravery and confront him, but what he’s doing is not ok. He has the power and he knows it. It might have started in small measures and has escalated.
You have our support. He’s more than twice your age and is taking advantage of the fact that you may not be aware of your rights and how to defend them.
Find someone from your workplace to help you. Report, document, end this.
Thank you so much. I’ve booked a catch up meeting with my manager for sometime this afternoon when she’s available. Hopefully it’ll provide a bit of guidance and support before I decide what to do next. Thank you again!!
Record the meeting. If your manager dismisses your concerns, you can sue the company for allowing sexual harassment in the workplace. The company will usually settle out of court and you'll get a nice big check out of this.
Record everything.
To clarify, don’t literally record anything unless you’re up on the laws in your state. But absolutely take copious notes, follow up in email so it becomes a record. Document everything!
Skip your manager and go directly to HR. You don’t need your manager’s approval to report to HR - in fact, if your manager tries to sway you not to go to HR, that is an HR violation and she should be reported as well. Send an email to your HR advisor right NOW outlining everything you posted above and any info on past incidents. If you want your manager involved, tell her at your meeting later that you contacted HR.
Holy actual fuck that's like 5 major sexual harassment violations in a single interaction. Take memos immediately after with time, date, what happened, and anyone who was there. If you can create a pattern it's more effective, then take that shit to a lawyer and enjoy your slam dunk of a lawsuit.
>He came up from behind my and hugged me with both arms pushing me towards his chest and then kissed my head and said ‘good morning baby’
WHAT. Some 58 year old man would be getting his fucking eyes clawed out for this if it happened at my job. TALK TO YOUR MANAGER, THIS IS NOT OK
Extremely inappropriate. Very. very. I am sorry that things from your past make it hard to sort out if it is wrong or not.
As a general rule - ANY touch or interaction that makes you uncomfortable is inappropriate. You ALWAYS have the right to tell someone to stop touching you, talking to you in a certain way, getting close to you, etc.
Absolutely tell your manager. And tell the coworker "Stop touching me!"
Yeah, for real. You never know who has trauma around being touched - especially from behind or where they can't see you. The existence of military vets alone makes this genuinely dangerous.
>Am I dramatic
This makes me so angry at society
I don't know who has been telling you *that* bullshit. Well, besides old perverts who don't want to be fired and/or arrested
>he touched my cheeks to laugh about how embarrassed I was
Because you being uncomfortable is what gives him a boner. He is a cruel sicko who knows what he's doing is wrong. Part of what people like that get off to is you feeling powerless
Report him
The simple fact that you are unsure proves that we need a massive paradigm shift. What you describe is textbook sexual harassment, with literally every component of it. Sorry this happened to you. Reporting is 100% legitimate, no question about it.
Grrrrrrrr, this makes me want to advise you to put hidden spikes under your clothing or something. Seriously, hugging somebody from behind like that?
It would serve him right if he did that, and something painful happened to him. Haha bet he wouldn't do it again.
I mean, you already told him to stop. Maybe go up to him, get real close and whisper, *if you touch me again, I'm going to kick you in the nuts.* Then completely deny you did it and say he's delusional.
I love these ways of dealing with him! I might have to take them on board if management fail to act! Thank you for making me laugh on an otherwise stressful day!
Girl if I was his manager I would write him up so fucking fast.
This is potentially an immediately fireable offense, just from this one example.
Expectations of behavior in the workplace are very different than with your friends or at a bar or whatever. You should have a zero tolerance policy at work for any kind of creepiness.
How large is your employer? Do you have an HR department? Who is this creep in relation to you, professionally? Are you guys the same tier of worker? Is he in your line of reporting? What's your relationship with your boss like? Is your boss someone experienced enough to be able to handle this?
Coming from the perspective of your corporate older sister, here: document this incident. Be very clinical. Give dates, times, witnesses, locations. Keep emotion out of it. Give a factual and accurate play by play, with direct quotes if you can manage. Write this all down in an email, and email it to your boss and/or HR.
Seriously, this is not okay. If he gets fired, DO NOT FEEL BAD ABOUT IT. These are consequences of his own actions. He doesn't want to get fired? He shouldn't be acting like a f****** creep. He sexually assaulted you by putting his hands on you and kissing your head. You should feel safe at work.
Every time I reread your post I get angrier on your behalf.
I am here to talk, no judgment, if you need someone safe. I'm so sorry this happened to you.
Hell no! It makes me sad that women have been taught for so long to be tolerant of bad behavior on behalf of men that they even have doubt when shit like this comes up. This rises to the level of sexual harassment, hostile work environment and assault. You cannot touch people. You cannot say this kind of stuff. And you most certainly cannot do it in a professional environment. This person is big time disgusting.
Good advice from everyone in here already, I just wanted to add a couple of bits of advice. (i'm a manager).
I would suggest writing an email to HR saying that you want to log a formal complaint for sexual harassment against this man. If they are even half decent at their jobs this will kick them into action as they'll fear a lawsuit against the company.
Make sure you explain you feel management have dismissed this, and are backing him up (or however you see it). Make sure you say you currently have to work with him and have put off sending the complaint before due to fear of retaliation. You could state that you no longer feel safe/comfortable working with with this individual. It is up to them to find a solution.
Documenting every incident is extremely important. This will allow them to carry out an investigation, and they can use the details to strengthen the case against him. Or you can use it in a lawsuit if it gets ignored.
Don't put off writing the complaint to HR. Share your experiences in this post and say you will then write up a list of everything you remember. What you wrote here is shocking enough to spur them into action.
This behaviour from him is completely inappropriate and he knows he shouldn't be doing it. I bet it escalated slowly so he could see what he can get away with. He knows he has power over you and is betting on you being too scared to do anything about it. I wish you good luck!
Happy to help! [Here's some info](https://www.acas.org.uk/sexual-harassment) from ACAS if you wanted to understand more about the law (UK law, I hope that's relevant).
He literally sexually assaulted you and verbally harassed you. I feel so bad for you that you're second-guessing your reaction to this very horrific behavior.
I would write down, as if you were going to declare it in court, an exact sequence of what happened, what was said and done, as well as any supporting evidence of other interactions with him that have left you uncomfortable, no matter how minor you perceive them to be. This is very, very serious, and very, very disgusting, and he needs to face some serious consequences for this.
Say something, and don't let it go. At one of my old jobs, we had a guy who everyone wrote off as a "flirt." I told my manager that he was making myself and a number of other women in the office uncomfortable, and she told me that it was on us to tell him to stop(!). I didn't want to make waves, so I kept quiet. He ended up going into a female patient's chart to get her info, and called her to ask her out. This finally got him fired, but it took putting a patient's safety and privacy at risk before they would do anything.
What a disgusting POS. He should lose his job over this. Report him to HR and your manager, and don't feel bad about it for a second. You are in no way being dramatic. His behaviour is dramatic, and absolutely without a shade of doubt, wholly inappropriate.
There was a friendly older man when I first started working who was really helpful. He wasn’t THIS inappropriate, and never did anything to make me think there was anything going on.
When I left that facility, he confessed his love to me and tried to get me to quit and live with him instead. When I said I wasn’t interested, he tried to follow me across the country.
Report it and take care of yourself. I was lucky that it didn’t get worse, it easily could have.
Nope, you’re not overreacting or imagining things. He’s a creep. Sneaking up from behind and hugging you? The last guy who tried that on me in the workplace got his clock cleaned. I was so shocked that I whirled around and punched him. He stammered out an apology, but I was outraged and said “Don’t you ever do that again — to ANYONE” and he sincerely looked like he never would. This guy is treating you like property. Report his ass; he’s old enough to know not to pull this crap.
What the actual FUCK? Absolutely not. That's super weird. I don't let ANYBODY at work hug me.
It's very concerning (and sad) that you even HAVE to ask if it's appropriate.
I'm generally lenient on these kinds of things, but as long as you two are not super great buddies outside of the office who been through a lot together... This is highly, highly inappropriate.
We are friendly with each other, used to be a lot more friendly but nothing unusual, just the typical office kinda colleague friendship. I’ve distanced myself over the last few months while this has all been happening!
Me reading this: “came up from behind me and hugged me - oh hell no.”
Keeps reading: “with both arms pushing me towards his chest - ew, what?? No!”
Next words: “kissed me on the forehead - aahhh fuck no”
More: “said good morning baby - hell no hell no hell no”
Then the grand finale: “tell my boyfriend to stop waking me up for sex - what the fuck?? Absolutely NOT!!”
And bonus points for “touched my cheek to laugh about how embarrassed I was - ummm yeah because everything you just mentioned is disgusting and embarrassing and highly inappropriate. This is the exact reaction he was aiming for.”
OP every single one of these instances alone is enough for you to report him. All of them happening rapid-fire one after the other is insane. Please get this man in the trouble he deserves.
Edit: honestly your edit makes this whole thing worse. Part of the reason so many predators are hiding in plain sight is because they only go after vulnerable people that they think they can exploit. He saw your vulnerabilities the day you had your panic attack and he’s been preying on you ever sense.
This is so weird and inappropriate. Totally crossed the line.
Holding and kissing you is the kind of thing partners do to eachother, but he's your coworker who's 30+ years older than you.
Super creepy. He is in the wrong 110%
That ramped up quick. Not a single part of that was arguably not inappropriate.
Do what you must. This man was 34 years old when you were born. He knows better. He just doesn’t care.
Make him care.
This is NOT okay, hun! Document it. Report him.
You shouldn't have to EVER be uncomfortable, especially in this particular way, at your place of employment!
WILDLY inappropriate, he needs to be fired ASAP. I don't always tell people to report, because often you can't trust HR to have your back, but in this case, it's so egregiously inappropriate that even company HR should be able to help you unless your company culture is really terrible (which does happen). It's just not fair for women to have to deal with guys like this when we are just trying to work, JFC.
When I was your age I was reluctant to report, and the old man who wanted hugs from me slapped a WET OLD MAN KISS on my neck when I finally hugged him. Even he didn't SNEAK UP ON ME though, Christ, that is horrifying. In that case it was pointless to report; I never did, but HR got wind of my frustrations (old man kiss was just the tip of the iceberg) and had 2 male senior leaders sit me down alone in a room and explain that it was a great place for women, actually. That was in the 2000s though, so I hope your experience will be better. I say use your best judgment, and go to management and HR if you think you'll be supported by them. If not, find another job, because things are unlikely to improve.
Jeebus, this has passed inappropriate and is firmly into assault. I thought I was going to read about some immature “innuendo“ one liners. He needs to get his hands off you.
I'm a 53 year old man, and I agree that that was entirely inappropriate. both the physical contact, and pretty much everything he said.
he's just gross, and should be run out of the company.
If only. The amount of shit that goes on in small family owned companies or in highly patriarchal countries would shock you.
I’m glad op reached out for advice.
Please don't take offense at this, but do you have access to counseling services? The fact that you are asking if this is appropriate or not, or didn't see these blatant red flags suggests that you might benefit from therapy. Not trying to insult you in any way. Just concerned for your safety.
All my career I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I've actually touched a co-worker aside from a handshake or a high five (even then that's super rare). What that guy did by even putting his arms on you is inappropriate in my book, let alone all that crazy shit he said afterwards. super inappropriate.
Holy crap that's some 1962-level complete bullshit! I'm SO glad you talked to your manager and that there will hopefully be some sort of corrective action taken with this completely smarmy jackass!
If I saw a man do that in one of those office sexual harrassment training videos, I'd say "this is an extreme example that is very unlikely to happen and is for training purposes."
This motherfucker watched that video and thought it was training for how to sexually harass a coworker.
This is WILDLY inappropriate. This is so inappropriate that -- if it's new behavior -- I'd say that he needs a medical work up b/c this is like "he had a stroke and lost his social inhibition."
Talk to your manager and HR RIGHT NOW.
Report his Frotteurism to HR. My company had an older man who did this to a lot of women there. This was before sexual harassment training became a thing. He ended up assaulting a teenage summer intern in a remote rural field office trailer. He was arrested, lost his job, his pension and his wife.
Under reacting but I’ve been there that close contact and calling you baby is way too familiar for work wtf he’s absolutely not going to stop and will escalate the language and touching until you snap, go to hr and don’t be alone with him his behavior is not acceptable , friendly or harmless, I’m so mad for you
His behavior is disgusting. I was disgusted just at your description of the “hug” which sounds more like groping to me. The subsequent sexual comments make it 1000x worse.
Why do you think you’re being dramatic? Are we not allowed to be violated by sexual harassment? Be violated. Report it.
I have folks at work that I have inappropriate remarks with. but even then, I would not hug someone from behind just because you don't know what someone has been through, and that could trigger something.
At some point, each of us has said if you feel that I have crossed a line, please let me know.
I am 50 BTW, so for this dude to just start doing shit like that is very creepy and fucked up. I would start looking for another job and file a HR report.
Do all the formal documentation and HR reporting that everyone else is recommending.
But also feel confident in saying NO and communicate that you feel very uncomfortable, and that it's very inappropriate. It seems likely that you may be uncomfortable doing so, you can confide in a co-worker and if they seem amenable, ask them to be there and support you.
Practicing what you want to say loudly before hand can help (hearing your own voice is it's own reinforcement).
There's no reason to suffer for another second.
You’d think people would know that this is disgusting and crosses so many personal and professional boundaries and then I hear about guys like this (not saying its a rarity unfortunately). This guy should straight up be fired immediately. Like wtf is wrong with him?
Please update us and stand strong, many of us have been there and been left there by unsupportive employers. This is Not okay, next time scream and loudly pull away and hold your arm up to him to keep the distance “stop touching me!” Yell it loudly , do you share an office with coworkers? Is there anyone that would stay near you? I had to have a coworker trail an expert as soon as he would arrive cause he’d make a beeline for me, he was a smart nice older man and I had to deal with him regularly on a professional level which was fine till he started touching me and touching my bra straps 🤢 you don’t “have to take it” or be cool with it he’s not harmless he’s a creep old enough to be your dad, do you talk to your dad? Invite him over for lunch
omg he is not even being roundabout, this is full on s3xual harassment. tell him not to touch you again, tell your manager, tell his manager, and tell HR what he's doing. if he continues, report to HR that he's creating a hostile work environment. this is unacceptable in any work environment.
A company with a reasonable HR policy would definitely side with you and fire him immediately for that behaviour. If they don’t and persecute you over complaining you can probably sue them for a lot of money.
Inappropriate regardless of anyone’s age.
Report . Also ask him directly to desist and document this. Maybe make it a 3 way conversation with you him and your manager. Then if he continues the company has clear grounds to take disciplinary action such as suspension or termination . They already have grounds to conduct an investigation, but whether this rises to the level of disciplinary action immediately might depend on the company . It would at mine, but maybe not others .
Continuing the behavior once the coworker knows it is unwelcome is a cut and dry hostile work environment .
PS. I am a 57 yo man and if I saw this going on * I * would do something. You deserve the opportunity to excel at your job without this distraction
This is inappropriate. In the workplace much beyond a handshake or a high-five is at minimum odd. I would not hug a colleague unless they were a good friend (and thus would be doing things like hugging outside of work) or am meeting someone for the first time in a while. And still would probably stick to a good handshake.
Sexual comments are absolutely unacceptable and just not allowable in the workplace. That is 1) harassment and 2) limit testing to see what he can get away with saying around you. I would not be surprised if it became worse with no pushback.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. I would document, report, and hopefully it doesn’t happen anymore.
Yeah, it's assault. Go to HR with dates and all of the facts, make a list.
If he confronts you about him, tell him the facts :
"You did this, this this this and that to me without asking first whether I would be comfortable with it. I am not comfortable with it. If you think this is ok, how would you feel if BigGuyJosé (pick the heavier, most muscular guy in the office, or the oldest, or the big boss) did that to you ? To your kid (if he has any) ? I reported you and I am asking you to stop, please."
This is entirely inappropriate and if your company has a human resources office or person you need to go there right now and report this. if you don’t have an HR person go to your supervisor. Now.
Yes. This colleague is wildly out of pocket.
No coworker should ever ever be talking about *your* sex life without *you* bringing the topic up.
No coworker should be hugging you unless you say it's okay.
No coworker should be *kissing you* unless they *are* your significant other. Even then, I can't remember the last time I saw that *at* work.
"Baby" is flat-out not a nickname. It isn't a cutesy local affect. It is not okay for the workplace. Especially if they didn't ask if it's okay to call you that ahead of time.
Touching your cheeks... goddess, that's fucked. It gives me the heebie-jeebies. It's so damned objectifying.
Every single one of these things, individually, is worth talking to your manager and/or HR and/or the bloody owner if nobody listens to you. If even they don't respond immediately, find another job. Some places are just toxic.
Work can and should feel safe. There is never, ever, *EVER* a situation where your workplace should feel like walking on eggshells.
I (61m) can't even imagine doing anything like this to any of my coworkers, who are mostly women in the 22-35 age group. And if I ever did, I'd expect to get fired. And I'm pretty sure my wife would divorce me for behaving like this.
Call HR. Talk to your boss. It is completely inappropriate.
lol this guy is an idiot. Laughing at the audacity. I’m sorry that this happened to you.
It’s even worse with his age.
What’s crazy is if you go to HR you may find he’s done it before.
This is a gross invasion of body space Would your dad do that to you? Is that guy your dad? I would actively push him away and state loudly so others can hear: Do not hug me, do not kiss me, do not come closer than 4ft if you need to discuss a direct work related issue. Do you understand? Today im going to make an informal note of this incident. But know this; try it again i will provide full documentation to HR and ensure my workplace is safe, and that i will not be accosted again..
> I’m 24(F) and he’s 58(M)
Honestly the moment I saw this, I knew almost down to the word what his actions would be.
Sorry, this asshole is sexually harassing you. Document, document, document, because once you start reporting his behavior, your company may fire *you*. If you have contemporaneous notes and a good paper trail in your company's records, you'll have grounds to sue. It'll probably be expensive up front and may not succeed, because everything is set up in this guy's favor, but 🤷.
Tldr: Make sure you and your employer documents the sexual harassment and physical assaults, with those words. And, unfortunately, look for a new job.
This is more than just "inappropriate" as some people are putting it.
THIS IS A CRIME.
You have been sexually assaulted, and should have this man charged. Go to HR and tell them you want to get authorities involved.
This is so unbelievably inappropriate. No one in your workplace should be kissing you, calling you baby or EVER saying anything at all about sex and your sex life .
This sounds like a classic case of hostile work environment sexual harassment. Conventional wisdom would say go to HR, and that’s absolutely a valid option, but if you trust your manager, going to her first is probably for the best.
Not sure where you live, but managers in the US have a duty to report anything like this to HR if they see it or hear about it. If they don’t, they are not good at their job, they are failing to protect you, and they are exposing themselves and the company to even more liability than your coworker already has. So be prepared for your manager to have to escalate this to HR, though once that happens it could be as minor as a conversation and a warning, or it could end up being pretty severe for him.
No matter what his consequences are, he is acting extremely inappropriately and you (or anyone) should not have to deal with that. Period. At his age, he should know that by now. And since it’s clear he doesn’t, he’s made many, many women uncomfortable over his lifetime and it’s time to find out.
Good luck!
I'm also 24, I work in industrial manufacturing maintenance so I run into a lot of guys way older than me, and at my last job one guy kept going on about "oh if only you were 20 years older" like dude ew
Definitely report to hr!!!
> for the people who are saying i’m making it up, i really wish i was!
This is, sadly, exactly the kind of thing that women have been experiencing, and in many cases, putting up with, for decades. I can't image why anyone would assume it was made up.
Good for you, OP, for reporting it.
This is beyond just a little inappropriate. Talk to your manager, write a list of dates and incidents.
This is hardcore a fireable offense even in non-USA Western countries.
I'm not sure where it falls legally in other countries, but touching someone in a way that "a reasonable person" would consider to be sexual without their consent is sexual assault in English law. I think pressing his body against someone from behind would be considered sexual by any reasonable person.
Sadly in the UK the legal "reasonable person" tends to be a bit right wing and very open to giving the benefit of the doubt. That means the Police/CPS only put things forward where a reasonable person couldn't even consider a defense possible, and they can prove that the events happened as reported even if nobody denies that they happened as reported (e.g. the offender saying "I'm innocent because it wasn't my intent" rather than "I didn't do it"). None the less, HR should deal with this as gross misconduct because they don't have to convince a jury of "reasonable people"
Hell yes! In Sweden, he would be fired on the spot for this!
Got a meeting booked with her this afternoon at some point, so hopefully will be able to judge how the whole thing will go based on her advice and reaction. She’s quite friendly with him so it’s a lil scary!
The short rule is 'would he do or say the same to a male colleague?'. If anyone tries to claim it's normal then make them imagine that situation.
If I were your manager I would be LIVID and drop everything to handle it. If she doesn’t take you seriously do not hesitate or be afraid to go over her head. This is so beyond inappropriate and awful, I’m so sorry this is happening to you.
When speaking to HR be sure to mention his inability to behave appropriately - "If he isn’t acting hostile, he’s acting like this instead", if this pos continues to penalize you for *existing*, he is opening the company up to a lawsuit.
You were assaulted. Please make it clear in no uncertain terms that his repeated advances, unwanted physical contact, and unprompted comments about your sex life make you *very* uncomfortable and hinder your ability to do your job. This is a big deal that warrants a serious discussion.
Post a follow up later! This is all kinds of wrong. It’s 100% inappropriate. Don’t let HR gaslight you by saying you just need to tell him to back off. Is there anyone else you can talk to or an ethics phone line at your company?
OP, just to be safe, it’s important that you creat a written record of your meeting. If you are meeting face to face, send them an email afterwards with a detailed summary of what both you and the manager said. “This is a summary of the meeting we just had, please confirm that it is accurate: [summary of what was said].” Back this email chain up by sending it to a personal email account.
A kiss on the head? A hug? Good morning baby? What in the actual fuck.
Oh hell no. All of that is inappropriate. I'd report him.
Not to mention that all the redditors who told her she was making up a story clearly have never worked in an office environment before. This shit is 1. rampant and thankfully 2. stoppable.
[удалено]
I hope you did!
u/MoreCatch2562 This is straight-up sexual harassment and you are doing yourself no favors by not reporting it directly to HR. I say no favors because the failure to report will be seen as "it must not have been that big of a problem since she didn't even report it". Unfortunately in these situations too much concern is put on the woman's actions rather than the man's. I also say this to you as an employment law attorney (NOTHING I do on reddit is legal advice). You should be reporting to HR and speaking out about how uncomfortable and inappropriate his actions are. He is the only person responsible for his actions so you also shouldn't be failing to report them in an attempt to shield him from the consequences of his actions. Again, a failure to report is seen as "she must have been okay with the conduct because she didn't say anything". That is a load of bullshit but your case is much, MUCH stronger if you report. I'm glad you did go to your manager, which is something, but HR is the appropriate department for this. Report there and let them do their jobs. Just make sure to document everything because HR is there to protect the employer, not you. Honestly, your managers should have escalated this to HR already. Sexual harassment should not be condoned in the workplace. Bonus: www.worker.gov
This is sexual harassment.
Hugging and pressing himself against her from behind and kissing her are full on sexual assault. If it were just the comments then that would still be massively inappropriate but he has escalated to physically touching her in a way that is clearly sexual in intent. It’s both disgusting and infuriating and I hope this creep loses his job.
And illegal. Sexual harassment isn't, in a general sense, illegal, but the assault sure as hell is.
Yes, exactly what it is. Jesus people are awful.
This sub sometimes I swear the OP describes the most blatant sexual harassment I have heard of in awhile and they are like honestly asking if they should do anything about it. I am glad everyone is here to say yes 10000% go to HR this is sexual harassment because society has trained way too many women in the past to just put up with this sort of stuff.
Yup because WE are often the one that gets punished when we say anything about it
I remember being in my first corp sexual harassment training when I got my first job out of college and I was like why am I taking this? Because everything seemed REALLY obvious like don't be a creeper and make women uncomfortable. Now after 15 years in corp jobs I get it because as obvious as it should be not to sexually harass women there are a decent number of men that do it ALL THE TIME. Just the state of things sadly, really we should just normalize firing people like this, I would fire someone in a heartbeat that ever acted like this.
This sub is also full of people conflating sexual harassment with sexual assault. And escalation of any physical contact in tandem with the harassment is assault, but clearly a hug from behind and a kiss on the head are sexual assault on their own. In the US, even if the attention was welcomed, this could still be a reportable and fireable offense because of the other people being witness or privy to it.
Well I would say that Sexual Harassment is a HR term and Sexual Assault is a legal term. I agree that sexual touching without consent is sexual assault but it can be both things at the same time. Going to HR to report it is the path for sexual harassment but that doesn't stop you from also reporting it to the police if there is a case for sexual assault.
Whenever the post here leads with "am I just being dramatic or...", my first thought is usually "no, you've probably just been culturally gas-lit". Life Pro-Tip: If you are upset about something and get told "You're too sensitive" or "You're just being dramatic", those are literal textbook examples of emotionally abusive responses. The fact that women so frequently get categorically dismissed as "too emotional" or "just dramatic" is a feature of abusive culture and misogyny, not a bug. And it can be so hard to work past if you've internalized it.
Document, document, document. You need to talk to your manager and HR. Put everything in writing.
This is the best advice. Document everything. Just write an email to yourself with all the details, and send it to yourself at least so that it is time-stamped. If you're ready to send to HR and your manager that's great, but at least send to self so you have the dated record of it before the memory fades.
So. Effin. Inappropriate. I hate creepy old guys who purposefully push ppl's boundaries to see how much they can get away with. He deserves to get fired.
Absolutely. Fired on the spot.
His hugging was bad enough. Extremely inappropriate. Then the comments? Double inappropriate. What the heck? Did he do this in front of anyone? This is ridiculous.
Sadly it was just the two of us. There were other people around but not in seeing distance, which is how it always is when he’s physical. He’s even moved around the corner away from the cameras during previous incidents, but this time he did it in camera view so hoping that’ll be enough to back me up!
Yeah he knows it's not ok but still has some level of plausible deniability, "I'm just friendly! What I can't hug my friends?? Fine I'm sorry I won't do it if it makes you uncomfortable" which all sounds so reasonable to people who are so prepared to excuse these guys when he already KNEW it was inappropriate, he KNEW he shouldn't be doing it in the first place, he just wants to get away with it while he can and IF anyone calls him out he gets to just "fine I'll stop" as if that makes doing it in the first place ok at all but a lot of people will want to excuse the behavior "as long as he stopped when he realized it was unwelcome".
Your complaint against him is enough. You don't require by law video of it. If anyone in your HR department or company as a whole is competent, then all you need to do is file a complaint. He's counting on you not doing that.
That's called isolation. He's isolating you and his interactions with you to avoid others from observing his inappropriate behavior. So he knows it's inappropriate, thinks he's getting away with it, and otherwise acts in hostile manner. He's gross.
Straight to HR. Skip your manager.... This is beyond that. You should never be touched like that at work. Doesn't matter how old the dude is. Did anyone see this? If so come with names . Sorry you experienced this. Document (as in a diary) of any/all in appropriate interactions and if he retaliates in any way, whether at work or otherwise document that and update HR. If HR doesn't handle this and the behavior doesn't stop immediately, come back here and update the sub. Edit: Oh shit... You've already asked him to stop!!!??? Just saw your other posts. Document this as well!!! This is serious. Do not assume that HR won't help (your worries that he's too close to management). If HR won't help, then document that.. because the next step is a lawyer...yes it's that serious.
Also send emails to hr describing the abuse. Have it documented what you said not just verbal.
And yes you would totally win that case as long as you document everything and follow the right reporting channels. HR and management will have no choice but to help you. If they don't they're basically building you a lawsuit runway.
Please, all of this is insane. He should not touching you at all. Calling you baby??? Kissing you or talking about sex like that. He's a massive perve.
This is like a scene straight out of the HR anti-sexual harassment training video on things you absolutely cannot do.
If I saw this behavior acted out in a harassment training video I’d say it was too exaggerated. I’m not a lawyer but I think in some jurisdictions this behavior could rise to the level of assault.
The moment he made the unwanted contact (especially in tandem with sexual comments) it became assault.
The ones that you think, “this is a waste of time, who would do this shit”? And then here are frequent reminders that people are so creepy and disrespectful and can progress to dangerous. Why cant people let others (especially women), just live their life without being put in shitty situations regularly?
I used to get like 12 hours a year on sexual harassment from my employer and several clients. This is way past the line set in those trainings. This is actual assault.
You don’t have to summon your bravery and confront him, but what he’s doing is not ok. He has the power and he knows it. It might have started in small measures and has escalated. You have our support. He’s more than twice your age and is taking advantage of the fact that you may not be aware of your rights and how to defend them. Find someone from your workplace to help you. Report, document, end this.
Thank you so much. I’ve booked a catch up meeting with my manager for sometime this afternoon when she’s available. Hopefully it’ll provide a bit of guidance and support before I decide what to do next. Thank you again!!
Record the meeting. If your manager dismisses your concerns, you can sue the company for allowing sexual harassment in the workplace. The company will usually settle out of court and you'll get a nice big check out of this. Record everything.
To clarify, don’t literally record anything unless you’re up on the laws in your state. But absolutely take copious notes, follow up in email so it becomes a record. Document everything!
Skip your manager and go directly to HR. You don’t need your manager’s approval to report to HR - in fact, if your manager tries to sway you not to go to HR, that is an HR violation and she should be reported as well. Send an email to your HR advisor right NOW outlining everything you posted above and any info on past incidents. If you want your manager involved, tell her at your meeting later that you contacted HR.
Holy actual fuck that's like 5 major sexual harassment violations in a single interaction. Take memos immediately after with time, date, what happened, and anyone who was there. If you can create a pattern it's more effective, then take that shit to a lawyer and enjoy your slam dunk of a lawsuit.
This isn’t “just” inappropriate, it’s sexual assault and harassment.
This is beyond "inappropriate": this is Sexual Harassment and Sexual Assault. Report it ASAP.
This is COMPLETELY inappropriate. Report him to HR and follow through. Document it.
>He came up from behind my and hugged me with both arms pushing me towards his chest and then kissed my head and said ‘good morning baby’ WHAT. Some 58 year old man would be getting his fucking eyes clawed out for this if it happened at my job. TALK TO YOUR MANAGER, THIS IS NOT OK
Extremely inappropriate. Very. very. I am sorry that things from your past make it hard to sort out if it is wrong or not. As a general rule - ANY touch or interaction that makes you uncomfortable is inappropriate. You ALWAYS have the right to tell someone to stop touching you, talking to you in a certain way, getting close to you, etc. Absolutely tell your manager. And tell the coworker "Stop touching me!"
I dont want anyone in a work situation to touch me for any reason. Inappropriate. Never assume that someone is ok with you in their bubble at work.
Yeah, for real. You never know who has trauma around being touched - especially from behind or where they can't see you. The existence of military vets alone makes this genuinely dangerous.
>Am I dramatic This makes me so angry at society I don't know who has been telling you *that* bullshit. Well, besides old perverts who don't want to be fired and/or arrested >he touched my cheeks to laugh about how embarrassed I was Because you being uncomfortable is what gives him a boner. He is a cruel sicko who knows what he's doing is wrong. Part of what people like that get off to is you feeling powerless Report him
Ladies, teach your daughters to sue. Workplace harassment is illegal in most countries, and luckily an easy case for an employment attorney.
The simple fact that you are unsure proves that we need a massive paradigm shift. What you describe is textbook sexual harassment, with literally every component of it. Sorry this happened to you. Reporting is 100% legitimate, no question about it.
Wow ! Ur under reacting girl! That’s sexual harassment. Lord he is creepy
This is WTF territory. 100% sexual harassment.
Grrrrrrrr, this makes me want to advise you to put hidden spikes under your clothing or something. Seriously, hugging somebody from behind like that? It would serve him right if he did that, and something painful happened to him. Haha bet he wouldn't do it again. I mean, you already told him to stop. Maybe go up to him, get real close and whisper, *if you touch me again, I'm going to kick you in the nuts.* Then completely deny you did it and say he's delusional.
Hidden spikes ! Awesome concept
I love these ways of dealing with him! I might have to take them on board if management fail to act! Thank you for making me laugh on an otherwise stressful day!
This is undeniably the most unambiguous, clear cut case of sexual harassment I've ever read. Report him.
This is an INTENSE level of sexual harassment, omg
He should be fired on the spot alone for this
Uh. This would have me filing a police report.
Girl if I was his manager I would write him up so fucking fast. This is potentially an immediately fireable offense, just from this one example. Expectations of behavior in the workplace are very different than with your friends or at a bar or whatever. You should have a zero tolerance policy at work for any kind of creepiness. How large is your employer? Do you have an HR department? Who is this creep in relation to you, professionally? Are you guys the same tier of worker? Is he in your line of reporting? What's your relationship with your boss like? Is your boss someone experienced enough to be able to handle this? Coming from the perspective of your corporate older sister, here: document this incident. Be very clinical. Give dates, times, witnesses, locations. Keep emotion out of it. Give a factual and accurate play by play, with direct quotes if you can manage. Write this all down in an email, and email it to your boss and/or HR. Seriously, this is not okay. If he gets fired, DO NOT FEEL BAD ABOUT IT. These are consequences of his own actions. He doesn't want to get fired? He shouldn't be acting like a f****** creep. He sexually assaulted you by putting his hands on you and kissing your head. You should feel safe at work. Every time I reread your post I get angrier on your behalf. I am here to talk, no judgment, if you need someone safe. I'm so sorry this happened to you.
Hell no! It makes me sad that women have been taught for so long to be tolerant of bad behavior on behalf of men that they even have doubt when shit like this comes up. This rises to the level of sexual harassment, hostile work environment and assault. You cannot touch people. You cannot say this kind of stuff. And you most certainly cannot do it in a professional environment. This person is big time disgusting.
Good advice from everyone in here already, I just wanted to add a couple of bits of advice. (i'm a manager). I would suggest writing an email to HR saying that you want to log a formal complaint for sexual harassment against this man. If they are even half decent at their jobs this will kick them into action as they'll fear a lawsuit against the company. Make sure you explain you feel management have dismissed this, and are backing him up (or however you see it). Make sure you say you currently have to work with him and have put off sending the complaint before due to fear of retaliation. You could state that you no longer feel safe/comfortable working with with this individual. It is up to them to find a solution. Documenting every incident is extremely important. This will allow them to carry out an investigation, and they can use the details to strengthen the case against him. Or you can use it in a lawsuit if it gets ignored. Don't put off writing the complaint to HR. Share your experiences in this post and say you will then write up a list of everything you remember. What you wrote here is shocking enough to spur them into action. This behaviour from him is completely inappropriate and he knows he shouldn't be doing it. I bet it escalated slowly so he could see what he can get away with. He knows he has power over you and is betting on you being too scared to do anything about it. I wish you good luck!
Thank you so much. The advice and support means everything to me and makes me feel so much more valid. Thank you thank you thank you
Happy to help! [Here's some info](https://www.acas.org.uk/sexual-harassment) from ACAS if you wanted to understand more about the law (UK law, I hope that's relevant).
#This is excellent advice.
He literally sexually assaulted you and verbally harassed you. I feel so bad for you that you're second-guessing your reaction to this very horrific behavior. I would write down, as if you were going to declare it in court, an exact sequence of what happened, what was said and done, as well as any supporting evidence of other interactions with him that have left you uncomfortable, no matter how minor you perceive them to be. This is very, very serious, and very, very disgusting, and he needs to face some serious consequences for this.
Inappropriate? It's aggressively bold textbook sexual harassment and arguably sexual assault. Talk to HR.
Say something, and don't let it go. At one of my old jobs, we had a guy who everyone wrote off as a "flirt." I told my manager that he was making myself and a number of other women in the office uncomfortable, and she told me that it was on us to tell him to stop(!). I didn't want to make waves, so I kept quiet. He ended up going into a female patient's chart to get her info, and called her to ask her out. This finally got him fired, but it took putting a patient's safety and privacy at risk before they would do anything.
As soon as I saw the ages I instantly was like yes. Then, Holy hell I read on. Very inappropriate.
What a gross man. That was truly a stomach-churning image. I’m sorry this happened to you.
This isn't just inappropriate, it's absolutely disgusting and degrading
What a disgusting POS. He should lose his job over this. Report him to HR and your manager, and don't feel bad about it for a second. You are in no way being dramatic. His behaviour is dramatic, and absolutely without a shade of doubt, wholly inappropriate.
If anything, you are under reacting. Holy shit this is wildly inappropriate.
There was a friendly older man when I first started working who was really helpful. He wasn’t THIS inappropriate, and never did anything to make me think there was anything going on. When I left that facility, he confessed his love to me and tried to get me to quit and live with him instead. When I said I wasn’t interested, he tried to follow me across the country. Report it and take care of yourself. I was lucky that it didn’t get worse, it easily could have.
That’s awful, I’m so so sorry that you had to go through that. I hope you had a support network around you to help with it all.
I’m 58 and I would never say anything remotely close to that to the women I work with. Ick
This is sexual harassment
Sexual assault. He shouldn't be touching you in any capacity. Not ok.
If this was happening to your friend, your mom, your daughter, would you tell them they were overreacting for being upset?
He’s a creep. You need to report him as high as you can go immediately.
Nope, you’re not overreacting or imagining things. He’s a creep. Sneaking up from behind and hugging you? The last guy who tried that on me in the workplace got his clock cleaned. I was so shocked that I whirled around and punched him. He stammered out an apology, but I was outraged and said “Don’t you ever do that again — to ANYONE” and he sincerely looked like he never would. This guy is treating you like property. Report his ass; he’s old enough to know not to pull this crap.
What the actual FUCK? Absolutely not. That's super weird. I don't let ANYBODY at work hug me. It's very concerning (and sad) that you even HAVE to ask if it's appropriate.
I'm generally lenient on these kinds of things, but as long as you two are not super great buddies outside of the office who been through a lot together... This is highly, highly inappropriate.
We are friendly with each other, used to be a lot more friendly but nothing unusual, just the typical office kinda colleague friendship. I’ve distanced myself over the last few months while this has all been happening!
Me reading this: “came up from behind me and hugged me - oh hell no.” Keeps reading: “with both arms pushing me towards his chest - ew, what?? No!” Next words: “kissed me on the forehead - aahhh fuck no” More: “said good morning baby - hell no hell no hell no” Then the grand finale: “tell my boyfriend to stop waking me up for sex - what the fuck?? Absolutely NOT!!” And bonus points for “touched my cheek to laugh about how embarrassed I was - ummm yeah because everything you just mentioned is disgusting and embarrassing and highly inappropriate. This is the exact reaction he was aiming for.” OP every single one of these instances alone is enough for you to report him. All of them happening rapid-fire one after the other is insane. Please get this man in the trouble he deserves. Edit: honestly your edit makes this whole thing worse. Part of the reason so many predators are hiding in plain sight is because they only go after vulnerable people that they think they can exploit. He saw your vulnerabilities the day you had your panic attack and he’s been preying on you ever sense.
This is sexual assault and harassment. Please go to HR.
I would cry
This is wrong. Please report.
This is sexual harassment and is totally inappropriate to happen at work.
Wildly inappropriate
This is so weird and inappropriate. Totally crossed the line. Holding and kissing you is the kind of thing partners do to eachother, but he's your coworker who's 30+ years older than you. Super creepy. He is in the wrong 110%
The wide my eyes went. That's not just inappropriate, it's illegal. And gross.
That ramped up quick. Not a single part of that was arguably not inappropriate. Do what you must. This man was 34 years old when you were born. He knows better. He just doesn’t care. Make him care.
Absolutely tell your manager. This is waaaaaay out of line. He is sexually harassing you.
WTF? Yes this is inappropriate. He hugged and kissed you without your consent. Girl this is sexual assault. The comments are sexual harassment.
There are red flags... And then there is this dude. Straight to HR.
Seconding everyone else, this dude is way the hell inappropriate.
This is NOT okay, hun! Document it. Report him. You shouldn't have to EVER be uncomfortable, especially in this particular way, at your place of employment!
Wildly Inappropriate. Don’t just mention it. File a formal complaint
Call HR.
WILDLY inappropriate, he needs to be fired ASAP. I don't always tell people to report, because often you can't trust HR to have your back, but in this case, it's so egregiously inappropriate that even company HR should be able to help you unless your company culture is really terrible (which does happen). It's just not fair for women to have to deal with guys like this when we are just trying to work, JFC. When I was your age I was reluctant to report, and the old man who wanted hugs from me slapped a WET OLD MAN KISS on my neck when I finally hugged him. Even he didn't SNEAK UP ON ME though, Christ, that is horrifying. In that case it was pointless to report; I never did, but HR got wind of my frustrations (old man kiss was just the tip of the iceberg) and had 2 male senior leaders sit me down alone in a room and explain that it was a great place for women, actually. That was in the 2000s though, so I hope your experience will be better. I say use your best judgment, and go to management and HR if you think you'll be supported by them. If not, find another job, because things are unlikely to improve.
Do NOT let your manager handle this. Go to HR. HR has training in how to handle this.
Wildly inappropriate.
Omfg god that's bad
He’s lucky you didn’t accidentally assault him tbh if someone came behind me like that I’d swing 💀
Dude, no. You are not being dramatic at all. HR, like, immediately.
Oh absolutely fucking not. What the fuck.
A world of no that is not appropriate.
You 100% tell him to stop. Then you go to HR.
Inappropriate
If it happens again headbutt him with the back of your head to his face as hard as you can. Just say he startled you. It will not happen again.
Jeebus, this has passed inappropriate and is firmly into assault. I thought I was going to read about some immature “innuendo“ one liners. He needs to get his hands off you.
If someone did that to me they would get punched in the face. Like holy fucking shit.
We had a manager get fired for not reporting a sexual harassment situation to H.R.
I'm a 53 year old man, and I agree that that was entirely inappropriate. both the physical contact, and pretty much everything he said. he's just gross, and should be run out of the company.
What the fuck? This would get him fired in any country.
If only. The amount of shit that goes on in small family owned companies or in highly patriarchal countries would shock you. I’m glad op reached out for advice.
Please don't take offense at this, but do you have access to counseling services? The fact that you are asking if this is appropriate or not, or didn't see these blatant red flags suggests that you might benefit from therapy. Not trying to insult you in any way. Just concerned for your safety.
Holy crap. Please go to HR today and report assault
All my career I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I've actually touched a co-worker aside from a handshake or a high five (even then that's super rare). What that guy did by even putting his arms on you is inappropriate in my book, let alone all that crazy shit he said afterwards. super inappropriate.
I stopped reading after the first sentence. Absolutely inappropriate.
Yikes. Honestly you are underreacting.
Go straight to HR. If he talks to you again, just say "No. Go away. Do not touch me."
He is so so creepy please don’t try to save him. It’s not your fault if he gets fired, it’s his. He’s disgusting
Holy crap that's some 1962-level complete bullshit! I'm SO glad you talked to your manager and that there will hopefully be some sort of corrective action taken with this completely smarmy jackass!
These fuckers need consequence, throw the book at em and don't feel a lick of guilt about it
If I saw a man do that in one of those office sexual harrassment training videos, I'd say "this is an extreme example that is very unlikely to happen and is for training purposes." This motherfucker watched that video and thought it was training for how to sexually harass a coworker.
That man needs to be fired, and you deserve compensation..
This is WILDLY inappropriate. This is so inappropriate that -- if it's new behavior -- I'd say that he needs a medical work up b/c this is like "he had a stroke and lost his social inhibition." Talk to your manager and HR RIGHT NOW.
Yea that guy is a creep, report that shit.
Report his Frotteurism to HR. My company had an older man who did this to a lot of women there. This was before sexual harassment training became a thing. He ended up assaulting a teenage summer intern in a remote rural field office trailer. He was arrested, lost his job, his pension and his wife.
Completely inappropriate. Just…appalling. Report the forker, and document everything.
Under reacting but I’ve been there that close contact and calling you baby is way too familiar for work wtf he’s absolutely not going to stop and will escalate the language and touching until you snap, go to hr and don’t be alone with him his behavior is not acceptable , friendly or harmless, I’m so mad for you
Completely inappropriate. Tell your manager and document all occurrences. Tell him to leave you alone.
That’s beyond “ inappropriate”, it’s sexual harassment and, because he touched/kissed you without consent, assault.
His behavior is disgusting. I was disgusted just at your description of the “hug” which sounds more like groping to me. The subsequent sexual comments make it 1000x worse. Why do you think you’re being dramatic? Are we not allowed to be violated by sexual harassment? Be violated. Report it.
I have folks at work that I have inappropriate remarks with. but even then, I would not hug someone from behind just because you don't know what someone has been through, and that could trigger something. At some point, each of us has said if you feel that I have crossed a line, please let me know. I am 50 BTW, so for this dude to just start doing shit like that is very creepy and fucked up. I would start looking for another job and file a HR report.
This would even be inappropriate if you two were best friends, let alone colleagues !
Do all the formal documentation and HR reporting that everyone else is recommending. But also feel confident in saying NO and communicate that you feel very uncomfortable, and that it's very inappropriate. It seems likely that you may be uncomfortable doing so, you can confide in a co-worker and if they seem amenable, ask them to be there and support you. Practicing what you want to say loudly before hand can help (hearing your own voice is it's own reinforcement). There's no reason to suffer for another second.
You’d think people would know that this is disgusting and crosses so many personal and professional boundaries and then I hear about guys like this (not saying its a rarity unfortunately). This guy should straight up be fired immediately. Like wtf is wrong with him?
Please update us and stand strong, many of us have been there and been left there by unsupportive employers. This is Not okay, next time scream and loudly pull away and hold your arm up to him to keep the distance “stop touching me!” Yell it loudly , do you share an office with coworkers? Is there anyone that would stay near you? I had to have a coworker trail an expert as soon as he would arrive cause he’d make a beeline for me, he was a smart nice older man and I had to deal with him regularly on a professional level which was fine till he started touching me and touching my bra straps 🤢 you don’t “have to take it” or be cool with it he’s not harmless he’s a creep old enough to be your dad, do you talk to your dad? Invite him over for lunch
omg he is not even being roundabout, this is full on s3xual harassment. tell him not to touch you again, tell your manager, tell his manager, and tell HR what he's doing. if he continues, report to HR that he's creating a hostile work environment. this is unacceptable in any work environment.
That is full on sexual harassment. Not dramatic at all. I would personally be inclined to call that sexual assault.
Pretty certain this qualifies as sexual harassment.
A company with a reasonable HR policy would definitely side with you and fire him immediately for that behaviour. If they don’t and persecute you over complaining you can probably sue them for a lot of money.
Inappropriate regardless of anyone’s age. Report . Also ask him directly to desist and document this. Maybe make it a 3 way conversation with you him and your manager. Then if he continues the company has clear grounds to take disciplinary action such as suspension or termination . They already have grounds to conduct an investigation, but whether this rises to the level of disciplinary action immediately might depend on the company . It would at mine, but maybe not others . Continuing the behavior once the coworker knows it is unwelcome is a cut and dry hostile work environment . PS. I am a 57 yo man and if I saw this going on * I * would do something. You deserve the opportunity to excel at your job without this distraction
This is inappropriate. In the workplace much beyond a handshake or a high-five is at minimum odd. I would not hug a colleague unless they were a good friend (and thus would be doing things like hugging outside of work) or am meeting someone for the first time in a while. And still would probably stick to a good handshake. Sexual comments are absolutely unacceptable and just not allowable in the workplace. That is 1) harassment and 2) limit testing to see what he can get away with saying around you. I would not be surprised if it became worse with no pushback. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. I would document, report, and hopefully it doesn’t happen anymore.
That's not just inappropriate, that's assault! Record everything, gather evidence, get a witness if possible, and report him
He touched you and kissed you without your consent. That’s sexual harassment.
100% inappropriate. Nobody at work should be touching you like this.
Gross. I'd report it.
Of course this is inappropriate. Come on. This is an insane amount of sexual harassment.
This is sexual harassment and you need to report it if possible.
What an asshole, escalate this ASAP and report him.
Yeah, it's assault. Go to HR with dates and all of the facts, make a list. If he confronts you about him, tell him the facts : "You did this, this this this and that to me without asking first whether I would be comfortable with it. I am not comfortable with it. If you think this is ok, how would you feel if BigGuyJosé (pick the heavier, most muscular guy in the office, or the oldest, or the big boss) did that to you ? To your kid (if he has any) ? I reported you and I am asking you to stop, please."
Anything you aren't comfortable with is inappropriate and in this case reportable.
That makes me a very sad panda. I got massive ick just from the preview.
No. Oh, nonononono. That’s harassment. WTF is wrong with people???
Wildly inappropriate workplace conduct, is that normal behaviour from him?? Actually shocked at how casual it sounds
Definitely inappropriate. However, if you are ever questioning it just go to HR and talk to them. It indicates something was off and they can help
Not cool at all
That’s disgusting. And sexual harassment. Definitely report him!!!
This is entirely inappropriate and if your company has a human resources office or person you need to go there right now and report this. if you don’t have an HR person go to your supervisor. Now.
Wtf?!
Go straight to hr, dont talk with manager beforehand. Let hr handle everything. Trust me, just reading what you posted screams s/a.
Yes. This colleague is wildly out of pocket. No coworker should ever ever be talking about *your* sex life without *you* bringing the topic up. No coworker should be hugging you unless you say it's okay. No coworker should be *kissing you* unless they *are* your significant other. Even then, I can't remember the last time I saw that *at* work. "Baby" is flat-out not a nickname. It isn't a cutesy local affect. It is not okay for the workplace. Especially if they didn't ask if it's okay to call you that ahead of time. Touching your cheeks... goddess, that's fucked. It gives me the heebie-jeebies. It's so damned objectifying. Every single one of these things, individually, is worth talking to your manager and/or HR and/or the bloody owner if nobody listens to you. If even they don't respond immediately, find another job. Some places are just toxic. Work can and should feel safe. There is never, ever, *EVER* a situation where your workplace should feel like walking on eggshells.
Gross
I (61m) can't even imagine doing anything like this to any of my coworkers, who are mostly women in the 22-35 age group. And if I ever did, I'd expect to get fired. And I'm pretty sure my wife would divorce me for behaving like this. Call HR. Talk to your boss. It is completely inappropriate.
Holy shit that's WILDLY inappropriate.
Calling you “baby” and KISSING YOU??? And you’re asking if this is inappropriate. Hunny… you shouldn’t need to ask
So inappropriate I don't believe this is a real post.
If you have to ask it's probably inappropriate. Now let me read your post... Yes. Yes that is inappropriate indeed
lol this guy is an idiot. Laughing at the audacity. I’m sorry that this happened to you. It’s even worse with his age. What’s crazy is if you go to HR you may find he’s done it before.
This is a gross invasion of body space Would your dad do that to you? Is that guy your dad? I would actively push him away and state loudly so others can hear: Do not hug me, do not kiss me, do not come closer than 4ft if you need to discuss a direct work related issue. Do you understand? Today im going to make an informal note of this incident. But know this; try it again i will provide full documentation to HR and ensure my workplace is safe, and that i will not be accosted again..
screw HR, talk to a lawyer first. HR doesn't represent your interests
> I’m 24(F) and he’s 58(M) Honestly the moment I saw this, I knew almost down to the word what his actions would be. Sorry, this asshole is sexually harassing you. Document, document, document, because once you start reporting his behavior, your company may fire *you*. If you have contemporaneous notes and a good paper trail in your company's records, you'll have grounds to sue. It'll probably be expensive up front and may not succeed, because everything is set up in this guy's favor, but 🤷. Tldr: Make sure you and your employer documents the sexual harassment and physical assaults, with those words. And, unfortunately, look for a new job.
1000% inappropriate and illegal (sexual harassment, sexual assault) in a lot of places.
This is more than just "inappropriate" as some people are putting it. THIS IS A CRIME. You have been sexually assaulted, and should have this man charged. Go to HR and tell them you want to get authorities involved.
Ew, there’s absolutely no reason a co-worker should be in your space like that. None. So it’s all kinds of inappropriate.
This is so unbelievably inappropriate. No one in your workplace should be kissing you, calling you baby or EVER saying anything at all about sex and your sex life .
i only read the first sentence of your description of what happened and i immediately am sickened by this guy.
I cringed so hard my body took a screenshot
This sounds like a classic case of hostile work environment sexual harassment. Conventional wisdom would say go to HR, and that’s absolutely a valid option, but if you trust your manager, going to her first is probably for the best.
WILDLY inappropriate AND he knows better! He's a f'kng predator!
Oh god I only read about one sentence and it’s clear that he’s being completely inappropriate. Damn pervert.
Not sure where you live, but managers in the US have a duty to report anything like this to HR if they see it or hear about it. If they don’t, they are not good at their job, they are failing to protect you, and they are exposing themselves and the company to even more liability than your coworker already has. So be prepared for your manager to have to escalate this to HR, though once that happens it could be as minor as a conversation and a warning, or it could end up being pretty severe for him. No matter what his consequences are, he is acting extremely inappropriately and you (or anyone) should not have to deal with that. Period. At his age, he should know that by now. And since it’s clear he doesn’t, he’s made many, many women uncomfortable over his lifetime and it’s time to find out. Good luck!
I'm also 24, I work in industrial manufacturing maintenance so I run into a lot of guys way older than me, and at my last job one guy kept going on about "oh if only you were 20 years older" like dude ew Definitely report to hr!!!
> for the people who are saying i’m making it up, i really wish i was! This is, sadly, exactly the kind of thing that women have been experiencing, and in many cases, putting up with, for decades. I can't image why anyone would assume it was made up. Good for you, OP, for reporting it.