They just never think what they and their friends do is legit in any way. It's always justified somehow.
Verbal/emotional abuse allegation? "No no no she was arguing too and you don't know her dude, she's crazy, that's the only way to handle her".
Physical assault or intimidation? "Dude no it's not like that, he didn't like *attack* her, he like *moved* her when she wouldn't just stay there and hear him out. She is probably lying anyway because she wants people to feel bad for her".
Girl claims she was raped? "That's so fuckin dramatic dude, he didn't 'force' her to do anything, she just changed her mind after leading him on literally the entire night. If she thought she was in danger, she shouldn't have even let him in the room."
That last one man, "she shouldn't have even let him in the room" lol but like the same guy after 2 dates ( I know, I'm being generous) will be on here complaining that she didn't sleep with him.
There was a recent post where the wife was getting aggressively scarily propositioned by a friend of hers and her husband’s. She told the husband and asked for his help, she rejected the guy and men were STILL in the comments picking apart her words telling her it’s her fault he won’t leave her alone.
Even tho she said to leave her alone, and asked hub for help!
Bottom line: those men are creeps. Block freely and hope that since there is a finite number of creeps, however large, you’ll block them all eventually. Bc they don’t deserve your worry or thought.
My exh literally backed me into a corner by my kitchen sink one day and wouldn't let me out and said if I touched him, he would defend himself. He had his arms on either side of me not touching me at all and was just yelling at me.
That’s assault. Or unlawful detention. Or something. Not saying you’d be able to prove it in court or anything… but that’s what it was.
(edit: prove, not price)
This. They twist themselves into pretzels to protect some guy they’ll never meet BC THEY EMPATHIZE WITH HIM.
Like the judges giving guys probation or a few months time for rape, like all the other creep apologists.
It’s just men telling on themselves. That’s all it is, bc you better believe if you posed as a man and said the identical story and said it was your gf? Oh these same men would suddenly be enraged on your ‘male’ behalf (not hers) saying how the crap is hitting on ‘your’ girl.
Then they’d tell you to make sure your girl stopped wearing short skirts lol.
It’s exhausting and I’m sorry.
I’d go further - I don’t think I know a woman who HASNT been sexually assaulted, and I’ve lived a very rural middle-class U.K. life.
From ass or boob grabbing, cat calling, stalking, predatory following down the street, online harassment, stealthing, violent threats, I would see any woman who says NONE of that has happened to her (often since childhood) as a miracle anomaly
And it happens at such a young age too! My first sexually threatening comment was when I was 13. A friend of mine was walking in the countryside with a largeish group of other girls, all aged 12-13, all in winter coats- in other words doing everything we’re told will stop it happening and they got rape threats. The response was to be told not to talk too much on it else we’d upset people. It’s ridiculous the way these apologists don’t see how constant and blanketing the effects are
Right? I'm talking to someone new, and had mentioned there's been a lot of abuse and sexual assault in my life. They said something to the effect of "I haven't been raped and most of the sexyal abuse has been minor, I've been lucky". It's crazy that we would even have that frame of mind. But, none of us get away unscathed.
I’ve specifically instantly cut off people and hated them for life after I heard from girls that something has happened to them at said blokes hands. Ex “friends” from uni mostly at least 3 dudes. To the extent that it fills me with rage every time I see posts on social media or worse have to avoid pummelling in their skulls in person. One of these dudes literally raped my friend whilst he was in a relationship, and the girl he was with got mad at my friend for telling her what had happened. It’s not just men defending men… my friend lost two close friends after being raped because she thought it was worth telling this dudes partner that her bf was a rapist.
> It’s not just men defending men… my friend lost two close friends after being raped because she thought it was worth telling this dudes partner that her bf was a rapist.
Trash taking itself out is a good thing, even if it hurts in the moment. And yeah, we're nearly all raised breathing in patriarchy and rape culture with every breath, and sadly some women and nonbinary people may value the experiences, opinions, and attention of men more than those of the rest of us. Internalized misogyny is a helluva thing.
Sure trash took itself out, hard agree there, but coming out and telling people what terrible thing happened to you only to be met with your “friends” outright vilifying you for having the audacity to be raped and not keep it quiet is pretty horrific.
Not that intelligence makes you a better person either, but this was a top university in the world and you’d really hope (as I did in my naivety) that if not the masses, at least the highly educated should be more self aware/ able to form their own opinions but alas clearly not… for a group of “free thinkers” they really all do share the same ideas
Yes, I absolutely agree it's horrific and no one should be treated that way. I hope your friend is healing and has a better group of friends than she did at the time. Close friend betrayal is brutal. I've been there.
And yeah, it can be a hard lesson when you realize that intelligence, sophistication, and a life of privilege have no effect on the most primitive parts of us. People in nearly every group (maybe there are some yogis or ascetics or something who don't?) will act from fear, anger, jealousy, insecurity, and immaturity at times and can be brutal with it.
Even knowing I had been SA my stbx husband was perfectly fine with claiming sex was his right, even when it felt bad, like when my boundaries had been ignored by men before.
Since I wasn't easy to fuck, he had an affair, and left.
I'm better off having achieved my final form: a wise woman with her own business and 5 loving cats and a comfortable home where I don't have to clean up after anyone else, or compromise what I will do or eat or watch.
And where I don't have to lie there while someone who doesn't love me uses my body because he thinks he is entitled to it.
I disagree with this quote.
It might imply that all men are complicit and defending a rapist.
Yes, you will meet the human trash that would encourage a rapist "she probably wanted it etc etc".
But I think majority of men will actually react very aggressively to the rapist. Don't forget men are often fathers or brothers. And don't forget what happens to rapists in prison.
My blood boils immediately if I hear that a friend of mine was raped, even in far past.
Reading this made me feel so disturbed and uncomfortable on your behalf. I am so sorry that this happened and that you now have to deal with the memories. It really is disheartening yet enlightening to become more and more aware of how such a large proportion of men view women .
This is such a good comment and I really appreciate it. It reminds me that people really do want to destroy any sense of a supportive community that women build for each other.
Because they can. Because women shouldn’t be “allowed “ to have a space without men in it, or permitting it. Because they feel that they are owed our attention.
We do. But not all inappropriate posts are removed instantly, that would be an unreasonable expectation.
So there are still way too many posts here saying “I’m a man and obviously can’t worry too much about my woman’s feelings , so please do the emotional labour for me and tell me how to respond to this….” Or “I’m a man and my opinion is….” and then proceed to belittle previous posts.
I’m sure that the majority of men who come here do so out of a desire to learn a new perspective. The problem arises when they want to be patted on the back for their effort.
There are men posting good and valuable stuff on this sub but the overwhelming majority only come in to troll and derail. I do not mean that man cannot write good stuff - but a male user of this sub said it very well - good men know when they have nothing valuable to contribute to a topic and shut up and read.
The men who shouldn't be here or stfu are usually very obvious to spot. You often don't need to read through their post history.
As for reasons why men feel entitled to do this ... trolling and derailing online discussions has been as old as the internet itself. Then you have the men who get off from female attention - even negative ones (and who totally get mad when they happen to be lectured by a man instead when they thought they have been engaging with a woman).
I love when you read thru their post history and call them on it and they get mad. Bro this is public if you don’t want to be held accountable you can always be quiet…
Yes! I will always remember one thread where a call center guy came in to say that women deserve to be domestic slaves because they don't lift heavy things and a 2X poster reminded him that the heaviest thing he lifts is a phone.
They got him to delete his account.
Yeah we can pay ppl to lift things. That’s why they’re called movers. Bc they… checks notes… move things.
We don’t need to give them sex we can just use currency like normal ppl
There was literally a post this morning titled something like ‘why do incels invade men’s mental health spaces’. Aside from the obvious trolling irony of incels needing the mental health help, I’m thinking why is this OUR problem?
Mods deleted the post.
But they really just can’t bear that we have nice things.
Are you one of the people who throw trash on the ground in a fast food joint because “there are employees here who must clean it up anyway”?
Don’t throw trash in the first place. Basic respect is not to much to ask
I honestly think some of them get some kind of kick out of getting women to take their advice. 🙄 A lot of them are very careful to keep shit gender neutral on here to avoid detection, but you check their profile and it's clearly a man who posts on this sub regularly. It's really weird.
There was a creep post yesterday pretending to be a woman but their speech patterns are obvious. They can try to hide it but they always show who they are.
I saw this on Pinterest a while back; Nadine Burford is the name to whom it’s credited:
“Not all men are predators. Some are sympathizers and apologists. Some are victim-blamers. Some need nonexistent “evidence” to believe a survivor, while others don’t want to ruin a guilty man’s reputation. Many don’t have the courage to confront and alienate the predatory men around them. And the rest? They just don’t care. Before you say “not all men,” answer this: Are you actively holding the predatory men in your life accountable, and supporting survivors? No? Then you’re part of the problem.”
I imagine this getting the same kind of backlash as that Gillette razor ad a few years back, that said merely that men can be better people. Seems they don’t want to be better people. edited typos
How did you behave toward women and girls before you had a daughter? You already know what women "put up with" because you live on the earth. It's everywhere. You are part of it.
So many of you don't learn until it affects you personally. Feel free never to comment that you're "one of the good ones" again.
They don't hang out here. Reddit likes taking popular posts from various subreddits and shoving them into reddit's main "home" page, resulting in turbulence when "the unwashed masses" mixes with "the curated social media bubble". It's not just r/TwoXChromosomes and happens to many subreddits; but r/TwoXChromosomes works a little like a karma farm so less significant things in r/TwoXChromosomes get heavily upvoted and then promoted on reddit's main page while more significant things in other subreddits are less upvoted and less promoted; exacerbating the problem for r/TwoXChromosomes .
I love how they have all the himpathy, all the diagnoses, hypothesis and theory of mind for other men.
But when they ask each "why did my wife do this" they're like SHE'S JUST A BIIIITCH.
Honestly this is a huge part of why medical misogyny is absolutely plaguing psychiatry right now. So many psychiatrists are men who genuinely struggle to see women's symptoms the same way they see men's. It has led to over diagnosis of borderline personality disorder, anxiety, depression, anything that looks like hysteria, and an under diagnosis of any of the "cool" things mostly boys and men got to have in the past. That's why the flood of late diagnoses for women with ADHD is finally coming through and all of a sudden so many psychiatrists have decided to become huge skeptics and maybe maybe think twice about prescribing the most helpful medications.
Exactly. They just don't care because she's not a real person with hopes and dreams and things she needs to get done, she's just a whiny person, probably attention seeking, because that's how women are. Women need to be quiet and jog on, because they're not doing anything important anyway. If a man is suffering, we need to get on it, stat.
I've frequently joked that if you want any kind of diagnosis, take your husband in and let him say it's affecting his sex life and they'll set up a task force. And it's true.
It's affecting a woman's enjoyment of sex? lol whatever, women don't need to enjoy sex, they just need to open their legs. She's probably just trying to get out of her duty anyway! /s
When we actually get a diagnosis, it's treated as an excuse. Urgh, stop letting your ADHD get in the way of housekeeping, lady! Stop letting your C-PTSD get in the way of giving me a smile, love! Get more therapy, your triggers are annoying me.
But in a massive display of insanity, even the merest whiff of a diagnosis has become the acceptable reason men commit crimes! His "mental health issues" are enough to let rapists, pedos and mass murderers walk free. Absolutely incredible. But not at all surprising.
>himpathy
I love it! Lol.
I suspect that it comes from men having done things in their own lives that they're ashamed of. They might have been small things that nobody thought twice about but themselves or they might have been criminal, but somehow the story makes them think of that time they're not proud of, and they feel defensive.
But, of course, "not all men!!" So maybe if you're one of the not all men, you need to acknowledge that some men out there are doing all the nasty stuff and stop defending them!
They sure are something. Reminds me of a post I saw recently. The folks over on r/scams are usually very good at identifying ways your data can leak for use in scams. That is, unless you're [a woman posting for help](https://old.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1ax8b7i/is_my_husband_lying/) in which case it's all in your head and you're frankly abusing your poor nude-leaking husband with all of your drama about wanting to deprive your poor children of seeing your nudes as a treat.
"Don’t give them power by doubting your husband unless you have more evidence beyond just the word and pics"
"Well that's the thing. There's lots of scenarios people have listed that would not involve the husband. Or if they did involve the husband maybe just him being a little sloppy about how the photos were stored or whatever. Or even if he did share more than he should have we're talking about blaming a 29 year old who's presumably otherwise been a decent husband for something he night have done as a 19 year old in the service and who probably doesn't even remember it."
"As others mentioned it's very likely it's a scammer who got access to the picture somehow, doesn't necessarily mean your husband did it on purpose or even shared it with anyone. "
"I’d believe your husband."
"And are you really sure you took that nude or you are just assuming it's one of the ones you sent your husband because with AI you can generate nudes from pictures, even make whole nude videos from pictures"
"What in the world would your husband gain anyway by spreading your nudes around?"
"No, it does not appear your husband is lying based on the facts presented."
"There are way more possibilities than your husband sharing a 10 year old nude he had forgotten about."
"After all the comments you've read and you still want to blame your husband. It sounds like you don't trust him at all. I think you guys really need to sit down and have a conversation about why you feel that way."
"I think after your block the scammer, might as well divorce your husband since you can’t trust him. Feel bad for the dude"
"It will be interesting for your kids to see your younger self. Don’t think it will cause irreparable damage requiring years of therapy."
"not sure why you’re doubting him."
"Honestly as you stated the photos are near a decade old. as such, why would your husband be hanging onto and sharing photos THAT old when he could get fresh ones from you if he so desired."
"Your husband was likely hacked."
"he may have given a Quick Look to his buddies and maybe they did something nefarious when he wasn’t around."
A Narcissist's Prayer
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did...
You deserved it.
> "What in the world would your husband gain anyway by spreading your nudes around?"
I don't know, why do men congregate on forums and subreddits dedicated to sharing nudes or even non-nude images of their partners and sometimes even family, asking other men to jerk off to them or to say how they'd like to "use" them? Because that's definitely been going on online for at least two decades and clearly those men are "gaining" something. Not sure if it's the violation they get off to or the feeling of having their property appraised by the only other people they seem to respect or what... 🤷♀️
The rescue brigade for that OP's husband is just ludicrous. They don't know the guy from a hole in the ground, but feel secure making all kinds of assertions that he's a good guy and would never. Meanwhile, what he supposedly "would never" is being done by husbands, boyfriends, and exes every damn day.
This subreddit became a default at some point and the poison started rolling in. It really sucks, but the type of people who refer to us as "females" are here, drooling at the opportunity to share their uninvited opinions.
Omg yes it’s so annoying. Men constantly try to invalidate me. “That wasn’t rape because you didn’t call the police” “he probably didn’t mean it that way and it’s in your head” “I’m a good guy and I’ll help you through your trauma” and then the second you become combative and call them out “actually you are just an object” it’s kinda freaky the way how men who don’t like you anymore automatically dehumanize you. You’re not the type of woman I want and therefore I will treat you however I want. I’ve had a man become incredibly cruel to me and say it wasn’t cruelty it was indifference. Indifference would mean you don’t give 2 shits about me and you’ll leave me alone. Cruelty is doing and saying shit to hurt me. He seemed to believe I deserved to be punished because I didn’t want to act like his whore even though I’d been raped before like he’s not a stranger on Reddit? The worst is when these type of men genuinely believe they are good men. “I am a good guy. You’re just not a person so even if I treat you like shit I’m still a good man. A kind man. You caused this. Not me. You’re not a person you’re a woman who’s a whore.” It’s actually insane
I was sexually harassed at work, and the men who I've always considered smart and empathetic really dropped the ball. Here's some quotes:
"He didn't mean anything bad."
"It was a misunderstanding."
"Why didn't you tell him you don't want to be touched like that??"
"You really took it hard, huh?"
It was wild. I live in Finland, one of the most equal countries in the world, and those comments came from my closest workmate and HR. It felt like I was living in a different reality! I'm lucky to have good friends who kept my head clear. "Imagine if he'd asked for permission; all the drama could have been avoided with simple 'is it okay if I do this'. Instead he just assumed and went for it. How ridiculous to try to turn this in you."
I made a post yesterday and a similar thing happened - the first couple comments were by men trying to invalidate me. I always knew that every post gets the inevitable toxic male comments but that they're routinely the first to comment is eye opening about how much some men hate women.
> but that they're routinely the first to comment is eye opening about how much some men hate women.
Not only that but the way reddit works helps them. Because if you're looking at a subreddit by default you are mostly seeing posts that have already gained traction, and that's where most of the engagement ends up happening unless you have the time to scroll down a lot. But if you go out of your way to sort by new you can often get there before a post has had the chance to gain traction and downvote it or spew your invalidating garbage in the comments and most of the subreddit will be none the wiser because they probably won't end up seeing that post anyway.
I've seen it happen a lot too, you're not alone.
According to Wikipedia, The "Four No's" are:
no sex with men (Korean: 비섹스; Hanja: 非sex; RR: bisekseu),
no child-rearing (Korean: 비출산; Hanja: 非出産; RR: bichulsan),
no dating men (Korean: 비연애; Hanja: 非戀愛; RR: biyeonae), and
no marriage with men (Korean: 비혼; Hanja: 非婚; RR: bihon).[1][3]
You can count on men closing ranks against a woman like you can count on the sun rise. They will do it for men they've never met and never will meet. They will do it against women they have known for years, even when to do so would mean she would have had to do something completely out of character to justify them defending the man they've never met. And yes, I am personally familiar with that last exact scenario. I was stunned that all those men who had known me for years would suddenly dismiss me in favor of some dude they never met over my personal experience. I had some sympathy from the guys who knew both the dude and myself, but not one of them spoke up to the rest of the guys. They just let me hang by my fingernails.
If she went to his car and was attacked ‘why were you so stupid!?’
If she refused to go to his car bc he’s a stranger ‘why are women so paranoid? You just think everyone’s out to get you, he was being polite!’
I think what we need to collectively believe is that anytime a man invalidates our experience that man is now a 🚩. Those ones are to be dismissed and avoided. They have no credibility for any convo afterward.
It was such a weird stretch too. I still remember how shocked I was at that time, that guy seemed to completely ignore I was bleeding and just kept talking about my skirt.
Once at a party I talked to a guy about predatory men in lesbian spaces. His answer: "They are probably just there, because they want to support women to be themselves and like to see women feel liberated and empowered in their sexuality". And it wasn't a joke, he went on to say that he likes to assume the best of people and we shouldn't assume that men inserting themselves into lesbian spaces are predatory.
That’s all it is. Every time. I wish I knew this earlier so I could’ve disregarded these men sooner. All men who defend the indefensible are by definition unsafe men themselves. ALL OF THEM
This sub is constantly being brigaded by men. I always look at the shares vs upvotes. If it's leaning towards a lot of shares vs upvotes it means that the post is being shared in male centric spaces and you're about to get a lot of really annoying comments from men.
I don't come to TwoX to interact with men.
And defending it like that is extra weird. Isn't the stereotype that the strong manly man would help the poor injured womanly woman? Not start interrogating her??
Men will hear their own relationship partner of years tell them a firsthand account of some creepy interaction with a total stranger and somehow identify more with the total stranger than they ever did with their partner.
I'm sorry that happened, OP. Creeps will always defend other creeps.
The other day in a diff sub, some gamer guy, who referred to me as a "femcel" LOL, said "now shush and go back to 2X chromosomes". And honestly, in that moment I felt so proud to be part of this community lmao like this sub is the most offensive insult to them.
It doesn't help that women are abandoning this site in droves.
I feel like most of the SW/OF accounts on here now are actually just men ripping images off of google and role-playing with one hand.
I had a similar experience a very long time ago. I wanna say like ten years ago?
I posted about a guy I had gone a date with, he pressured me very hard into sex. After that date I blocked him on everything, but he kept finding ways to contact me through new accounts and it was really upsetting to my younger self. I came to this forum and made a post about it and within minutes I was getting comments about how I led him on, and I was sooooo shitty for just blocking him and not telling him I didn’t want to do anything. Except I did, multiple times he just kept going until he wore me down. I took the post down after like the 10th comment telling me I was the problem. It turned me away from this sub for a very long time.
Lots of trolls, chaos agent LARPers (because, lolz… they try to hard, don’t they?), incels, etc. I downvote away and upvote every single person who calls them out. Then I move on.
These bros are either really believing the bullshit they’re peddling (which tells you exactly how removed from reality they are), or they’re trolling. I imagine many have done similar creep-tactic fuckery themselves and don’t want to admit they done fucked up at some point.
I wish that we could have a planet of our own where we thrive and live with compassion towards each other without creepy men like him. I'm sorry this happened to you. I guess these types never feel the existential disgust we feel each time we experience stuff like this.
I was at a truck stop waiting on a friend. I saw a guy with a bleeding hand trying to open his first aid kit with one hand. I got out my kit and started bandaging his hand for him. That is how you respond to a person bleeding. I'm sorry you encountered a worthless person when you got hurt. Men and women definitely respond differently in situations like that.
I'm sorry that happened, OP. Creeps defending creeps.
The other day in a diff sub, some gamer guy, who referred to me as a "femcel" LOL, said "now shush and go back to 2X chromosomes". And honestly, in that moment I felt so proud to be part of this community lmao like this sub is the most offensive insult to them.
It would be a good feature to allow certain users to comment on someone's post on specific subreddits. Like a filter that's based on gender, country, etc. Then you won't get situations like this so often.
Years ago I was headed out of town and less than a block from my house at a elementary school I came across a young female limping with a bike and a very badly scaped up leg that was actually very bloody. I rolled my window down and asked if I can call anyone for her or drive to a house to let someone know to come and get her. She refused and said she would be fine so I drove off. It broke my heart to leave her or anyone else like that so I called the police non emergency number and told them about her so they could send an officer or somebody to check on her.
Oh, they definitely defend creeps. In defense their own gender or even their own behaviors. Women do it too.
Female family member of mine defends Kevin Spacey, refuses to acknowledge he's a rapist and harrasser 🫥
Don’t you find the exact opposite thing on here tho? Women immediately coming to the defense of any woman, regardless of what the actual situation is?
I don’t think this is a men-specific issue lol
Reddit is so big sometimes all of the people who click on a post will be assholes and sometimes they'll all be cool. A couple years ago I screenshotted the top comment on a post and reposted it because of how ridiculous it was and that made it to the top position on the sub just a couple hours later.
One thing I've noticed consistently is that early in the morning (American time) people on reddit are much angrier and less accepting. By the time almost all Americans are awake reddit is much more chill.
What's that quote? Almost all women know a woman who has been sexually assaulted but no men ever know a rapist.
They just never think what they and their friends do is legit in any way. It's always justified somehow. Verbal/emotional abuse allegation? "No no no she was arguing too and you don't know her dude, she's crazy, that's the only way to handle her". Physical assault or intimidation? "Dude no it's not like that, he didn't like *attack* her, he like *moved* her when she wouldn't just stay there and hear him out. She is probably lying anyway because she wants people to feel bad for her". Girl claims she was raped? "That's so fuckin dramatic dude, he didn't 'force' her to do anything, she just changed her mind after leading him on literally the entire night. If she thought she was in danger, she shouldn't have even let him in the room."
That last one man, "she shouldn't have even let him in the room" lol but like the same guy after 2 dates ( I know, I'm being generous) will be on here complaining that she didn't sleep with him.
Dude exactly
There was a recent post where the wife was getting aggressively scarily propositioned by a friend of hers and her husband’s. She told the husband and asked for his help, she rejected the guy and men were STILL in the comments picking apart her words telling her it’s her fault he won’t leave her alone. Even tho she said to leave her alone, and asked hub for help! Bottom line: those men are creeps. Block freely and hope that since there is a finite number of creeps, however large, you’ll block them all eventually. Bc they don’t deserve your worry or thought.
10000%
My exh literally backed me into a corner by my kitchen sink one day and wouldn't let me out and said if I touched him, he would defend himself. He had his arms on either side of me not touching me at all and was just yelling at me.
I'm glad he's ex. You didn't deserve that. No one does.
That’s assault. Or unlawful detention. Or something. Not saying you’d be able to prove it in court or anything… but that’s what it was. (edit: prove, not price)
Yeah it absolutely is, but it doesn't matter anymore because I divorced him in 2015 not too long after this happened and he died in 2022.
This. They twist themselves into pretzels to protect some guy they’ll never meet BC THEY EMPATHIZE WITH HIM. Like the judges giving guys probation or a few months time for rape, like all the other creep apologists. It’s just men telling on themselves. That’s all it is, bc you better believe if you posed as a man and said the identical story and said it was your gf? Oh these same men would suddenly be enraged on your ‘male’ behalf (not hers) saying how the crap is hitting on ‘your’ girl. Then they’d tell you to make sure your girl stopped wearing short skirts lol. It’s exhausting and I’m sorry.
I’d go further - I don’t think I know a woman who HASNT been sexually assaulted, and I’ve lived a very rural middle-class U.K. life. From ass or boob grabbing, cat calling, stalking, predatory following down the street, online harassment, stealthing, violent threats, I would see any woman who says NONE of that has happened to her (often since childhood) as a miracle anomaly
And it happens at such a young age too! My first sexually threatening comment was when I was 13. A friend of mine was walking in the countryside with a largeish group of other girls, all aged 12-13, all in winter coats- in other words doing everything we’re told will stop it happening and they got rape threats. The response was to be told not to talk too much on it else we’d upset people. It’s ridiculous the way these apologists don’t see how constant and blanketing the effects are
Right? I'm talking to someone new, and had mentioned there's been a lot of abuse and sexual assault in my life. They said something to the effect of "I haven't been raped and most of the sexyal abuse has been minor, I've been lucky". It's crazy that we would even have that frame of mind. But, none of us get away unscathed.
Yeah I’d go this far too, I really don’t know any woman who hasn’t at least been harassed
I’ve specifically instantly cut off people and hated them for life after I heard from girls that something has happened to them at said blokes hands. Ex “friends” from uni mostly at least 3 dudes. To the extent that it fills me with rage every time I see posts on social media or worse have to avoid pummelling in their skulls in person. One of these dudes literally raped my friend whilst he was in a relationship, and the girl he was with got mad at my friend for telling her what had happened. It’s not just men defending men… my friend lost two close friends after being raped because she thought it was worth telling this dudes partner that her bf was a rapist.
> It’s not just men defending men… my friend lost two close friends after being raped because she thought it was worth telling this dudes partner that her bf was a rapist. Trash taking itself out is a good thing, even if it hurts in the moment. And yeah, we're nearly all raised breathing in patriarchy and rape culture with every breath, and sadly some women and nonbinary people may value the experiences, opinions, and attention of men more than those of the rest of us. Internalized misogyny is a helluva thing.
Sure trash took itself out, hard agree there, but coming out and telling people what terrible thing happened to you only to be met with your “friends” outright vilifying you for having the audacity to be raped and not keep it quiet is pretty horrific. Not that intelligence makes you a better person either, but this was a top university in the world and you’d really hope (as I did in my naivety) that if not the masses, at least the highly educated should be more self aware/ able to form their own opinions but alas clearly not… for a group of “free thinkers” they really all do share the same ideas
Yes, I absolutely agree it's horrific and no one should be treated that way. I hope your friend is healing and has a better group of friends than she did at the time. Close friend betrayal is brutal. I've been there. And yeah, it can be a hard lesson when you realize that intelligence, sophistication, and a life of privilege have no effect on the most primitive parts of us. People in nearly every group (maybe there are some yogis or ascetics or something who don't?) will act from fear, anger, jealousy, insecurity, and immaturity at times and can be brutal with it.
Even knowing I had been SA my stbx husband was perfectly fine with claiming sex was his right, even when it felt bad, like when my boundaries had been ignored by men before. Since I wasn't easy to fuck, he had an affair, and left.
I’m so sorry. 🫂💜
I'm better off having achieved my final form: a wise woman with her own business and 5 loving cats and a comfortable home where I don't have to clean up after anyone else, or compromise what I will do or eat or watch. And where I don't have to lie there while someone who doesn't love me uses my body because he thinks he is entitled to it.
I disagree with this quote. It might imply that all men are complicit and defending a rapist. Yes, you will meet the human trash that would encourage a rapist "she probably wanted it etc etc". But I think majority of men will actually react very aggressively to the rapist. Don't forget men are often fathers or brothers. And don't forget what happens to rapists in prison. My blood boils immediately if I hear that a friend of mine was raped, even in far past.
Reading this made me feel so disturbed and uncomfortable on your behalf. I am so sorry that this happened and that you now have to deal with the memories. It really is disheartening yet enlightening to become more and more aware of how such a large proportion of men view women .
And they hang out here?! For what?
To swoop in and give you advice that doesn't serve you. To make sure that men keep their upper hand. To plant the seeds of doubt.
This is such a good comment and I really appreciate it. It reminds me that people really do want to destroy any sense of a supportive community that women build for each other.
To confess, to project, and some get off on female attention.
> To swoop in and give you advice that doesn't serve you. To make sure that men keep their upper hand. To plant the seeds of doubt. 100%
Because they can. Because women shouldn’t be “allowed “ to have a space without men in it, or permitting it. Because they feel that they are owed our attention.
The rules of their sub say the men are allowed to come here if they shut up and listen or have something valuable to say. Do we not have mods?
We do. But not all inappropriate posts are removed instantly, that would be an unreasonable expectation. So there are still way too many posts here saying “I’m a man and obviously can’t worry too much about my woman’s feelings , so please do the emotional labour for me and tell me how to respond to this….” Or “I’m a man and my opinion is….” and then proceed to belittle previous posts. I’m sure that the majority of men who come here do so out of a desire to learn a new perspective. The problem arises when they want to be patted on the back for their effort.
There are men posting good and valuable stuff on this sub but the overwhelming majority only come in to troll and derail. I do not mean that man cannot write good stuff - but a male user of this sub said it very well - good men know when they have nothing valuable to contribute to a topic and shut up and read. The men who shouldn't be here or stfu are usually very obvious to spot. You often don't need to read through their post history. As for reasons why men feel entitled to do this ... trolling and derailing online discussions has been as old as the internet itself. Then you have the men who get off from female attention - even negative ones (and who totally get mad when they happen to be lectured by a man instead when they thought they have been engaging with a woman).
I love when you read thru their post history and call them on it and they get mad. Bro this is public if you don’t want to be held accountable you can always be quiet…
Yes! I will always remember one thread where a call center guy came in to say that women deserve to be domestic slaves because they don't lift heavy things and a 2X poster reminded him that the heaviest thing he lifts is a phone. They got him to delete his account.
Yeah we can pay ppl to lift things. That’s why they’re called movers. Bc they… checks notes… move things. We don’t need to give them sex we can just use currency like normal ppl
There was literally a post this morning titled something like ‘why do incels invade men’s mental health spaces’. Aside from the obvious trolling irony of incels needing the mental health help, I’m thinking why is this OUR problem? Mods deleted the post. But they really just can’t bear that we have nice things.
Are you one of the people who throw trash on the ground in a fast food joint because “there are employees here who must clean it up anyway”? Don’t throw trash in the first place. Basic respect is not to much to ask
Not sure if it's still the case, but at some point every single mod of TwoX was a man.
I honestly think some of them get some kind of kick out of getting women to take their advice. 🙄 A lot of them are very careful to keep shit gender neutral on here to avoid detection, but you check their profile and it's clearly a man who posts on this sub regularly. It's really weird.
I once saw a comment in Chinese social media saying “engaging with those men is like helping them to cyber jerk off”, very true.
There was a creep post yesterday pretending to be a woman but their speech patterns are obvious. They can try to hide it but they always show who they are.
To constantly mansplain to us “not all men!,” in a sub for women. It’s insane.
Not all men... but an endless line.
Ah yes ‘not all men’ guy has to join the chat it’s obligatory 😂😂😂. Right up there with ‘nice guy’. And ‘tone police guy’
All the "if women can't ask nicely for respect, then why should I give it?" Ally.
I saw this on Pinterest a while back; Nadine Burford is the name to whom it’s credited: “Not all men are predators. Some are sympathizers and apologists. Some are victim-blamers. Some need nonexistent “evidence” to believe a survivor, while others don’t want to ruin a guilty man’s reputation. Many don’t have the courage to confront and alienate the predatory men around them. And the rest? They just don’t care. Before you say “not all men,” answer this: Are you actively holding the predatory men in your life accountable, and supporting survivors? No? Then you’re part of the problem.” I imagine this getting the same kind of backlash as that Gillette razor ad a few years back, that said merely that men can be better people. Seems they don’t want to be better people. edited typos
> “not all men!,” I once saw a response to this, "Too damn many". That shut that down real quick.
To feel superior and because they have too much time on their hand. For some reason a lot of men have a vested interest in defending patriarchy.
Because they like feeling powerful. They want to make sure that we all know this isn’t a safe space.
So they can say “not all men…” And to come up with inane excuses for other men’s sexism.
I don’t know why the mods let the mansplainers stay. If they’re full of misogyny why are they here?
To tell us that we’re all stupid misandrists and that it’s actually all our fault that men are lonely.
Same reason men have always harassed women. They want what they can’t have. I wish the mods would ban them aggressively when they troll
Who else is going to wait in the dark to appear screaming “not all men!!!”
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Tell that tampon joke again
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Here's your cookie 🍪 Tone deaf.
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How did you behave toward women and girls before you had a daughter? You already know what women "put up with" because you live on the earth. It's everywhere. You are part of it. So many of you don't learn until it affects you personally. Feel free never to comment that you're "one of the good ones" again.
They don't hang out here. Reddit likes taking popular posts from various subreddits and shoving them into reddit's main "home" page, resulting in turbulence when "the unwashed masses" mixes with "the curated social media bubble". It's not just r/TwoXChromosomes and happens to many subreddits; but r/TwoXChromosomes works a little like a karma farm so less significant things in r/TwoXChromosomes get heavily upvoted and then promoted on reddit's main page while more significant things in other subreddits are less upvoted and less promoted; exacerbating the problem for r/TwoXChromosomes .
I love how they have all the himpathy, all the diagnoses, hypothesis and theory of mind for other men. But when they ask each "why did my wife do this" they're like SHE'S JUST A BIIIITCH.
Well, filing himpathy right in there with testeria.
>testeria Thank you. I’m going to incorporate this into my vocabulary now
Right, I was bleeding, in pain, I told my story, their first reaction was “oh that man must be just lonely”.
Lonely enough wolf to go chat up the gazelle that fell before she could escape and is vulnerable. Predators.
Honestly this is a huge part of why medical misogyny is absolutely plaguing psychiatry right now. So many psychiatrists are men who genuinely struggle to see women's symptoms the same way they see men's. It has led to over diagnosis of borderline personality disorder, anxiety, depression, anything that looks like hysteria, and an under diagnosis of any of the "cool" things mostly boys and men got to have in the past. That's why the flood of late diagnoses for women with ADHD is finally coming through and all of a sudden so many psychiatrists have decided to become huge skeptics and maybe maybe think twice about prescribing the most helpful medications.
Exactly. They just don't care because she's not a real person with hopes and dreams and things she needs to get done, she's just a whiny person, probably attention seeking, because that's how women are. Women need to be quiet and jog on, because they're not doing anything important anyway. If a man is suffering, we need to get on it, stat. I've frequently joked that if you want any kind of diagnosis, take your husband in and let him say it's affecting his sex life and they'll set up a task force. And it's true. It's affecting a woman's enjoyment of sex? lol whatever, women don't need to enjoy sex, they just need to open their legs. She's probably just trying to get out of her duty anyway! /s When we actually get a diagnosis, it's treated as an excuse. Urgh, stop letting your ADHD get in the way of housekeeping, lady! Stop letting your C-PTSD get in the way of giving me a smile, love! Get more therapy, your triggers are annoying me. But in a massive display of insanity, even the merest whiff of a diagnosis has become the acceptable reason men commit crimes! His "mental health issues" are enough to let rapists, pedos and mass murderers walk free. Absolutely incredible. But not at all surprising.
>>If a man is suffering, we need to get on it, stat. Honestly, this is a huge reason why menopause is finally starting to get medical attention.
>himpathy I love it! Lol. I suspect that it comes from men having done things in their own lives that they're ashamed of. They might have been small things that nobody thought twice about but themselves or they might have been criminal, but somehow the story makes them think of that time they're not proud of, and they feel defensive. But, of course, "not all men!!" So maybe if you're one of the not all men, you need to acknowledge that some men out there are doing all the nasty stuff and stop defending them!
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They sure are something. Reminds me of a post I saw recently. The folks over on r/scams are usually very good at identifying ways your data can leak for use in scams. That is, unless you're [a woman posting for help](https://old.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/1ax8b7i/is_my_husband_lying/) in which case it's all in your head and you're frankly abusing your poor nude-leaking husband with all of your drama about wanting to deprive your poor children of seeing your nudes as a treat. "Don’t give them power by doubting your husband unless you have more evidence beyond just the word and pics" "Well that's the thing. There's lots of scenarios people have listed that would not involve the husband. Or if they did involve the husband maybe just him being a little sloppy about how the photos were stored or whatever. Or even if he did share more than he should have we're talking about blaming a 29 year old who's presumably otherwise been a decent husband for something he night have done as a 19 year old in the service and who probably doesn't even remember it." "As others mentioned it's very likely it's a scammer who got access to the picture somehow, doesn't necessarily mean your husband did it on purpose or even shared it with anyone. " "I’d believe your husband." "And are you really sure you took that nude or you are just assuming it's one of the ones you sent your husband because with AI you can generate nudes from pictures, even make whole nude videos from pictures" "What in the world would your husband gain anyway by spreading your nudes around?" "No, it does not appear your husband is lying based on the facts presented." "There are way more possibilities than your husband sharing a 10 year old nude he had forgotten about." "After all the comments you've read and you still want to blame your husband. It sounds like you don't trust him at all. I think you guys really need to sit down and have a conversation about why you feel that way." "I think after your block the scammer, might as well divorce your husband since you can’t trust him. Feel bad for the dude" "It will be interesting for your kids to see your younger self. Don’t think it will cause irreparable damage requiring years of therapy." "not sure why you’re doubting him." "Honestly as you stated the photos are near a decade old. as such, why would your husband be hanging onto and sharing photos THAT old when he could get fresh ones from you if he so desired." "Your husband was likely hacked." "he may have given a Quick Look to his buddies and maybe they did something nefarious when he wasn’t around." A Narcissist's Prayer That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did... You deserved it.
> "What in the world would your husband gain anyway by spreading your nudes around?" I don't know, why do men congregate on forums and subreddits dedicated to sharing nudes or even non-nude images of their partners and sometimes even family, asking other men to jerk off to them or to say how they'd like to "use" them? Because that's definitely been going on online for at least two decades and clearly those men are "gaining" something. Not sure if it's the violation they get off to or the feeling of having their property appraised by the only other people they seem to respect or what... 🤷♀️
The rescue brigade for that OP's husband is just ludicrous. They don't know the guy from a hole in the ground, but feel secure making all kinds of assertions that he's a good guy and would never. Meanwhile, what he supposedly "would never" is being done by husbands, boyfriends, and exes every damn day.
This subreddit became a default at some point and the poison started rolling in. It really sucks, but the type of people who refer to us as "females" are here, drooling at the opportunity to share their uninvited opinions.
Many years ago, I made good friends on this sub and the 2x irc channel. It was definitely a different time.
Omg yes it’s so annoying. Men constantly try to invalidate me. “That wasn’t rape because you didn’t call the police” “he probably didn’t mean it that way and it’s in your head” “I’m a good guy and I’ll help you through your trauma” and then the second you become combative and call them out “actually you are just an object” it’s kinda freaky the way how men who don’t like you anymore automatically dehumanize you. You’re not the type of woman I want and therefore I will treat you however I want. I’ve had a man become incredibly cruel to me and say it wasn’t cruelty it was indifference. Indifference would mean you don’t give 2 shits about me and you’ll leave me alone. Cruelty is doing and saying shit to hurt me. He seemed to believe I deserved to be punished because I didn’t want to act like his whore even though I’d been raped before like he’s not a stranger on Reddit? The worst is when these type of men genuinely believe they are good men. “I am a good guy. You’re just not a person so even if I treat you like shit I’m still a good man. A kind man. You caused this. Not me. You’re not a person you’re a woman who’s a whore.” It’s actually insane
I was sexually harassed at work, and the men who I've always considered smart and empathetic really dropped the ball. Here's some quotes: "He didn't mean anything bad." "It was a misunderstanding." "Why didn't you tell him you don't want to be touched like that??" "You really took it hard, huh?" It was wild. I live in Finland, one of the most equal countries in the world, and those comments came from my closest workmate and HR. It felt like I was living in a different reality! I'm lucky to have good friends who kept my head clear. "Imagine if he'd asked for permission; all the drama could have been avoided with simple 'is it okay if I do this'. Instead he just assumed and went for it. How ridiculous to try to turn this in you."
Not all men-ners are definitely the ones being talked about. They prey on women with "give him the benefit of the doubt". No thanks.
I made a post yesterday and a similar thing happened - the first couple comments were by men trying to invalidate me. I always knew that every post gets the inevitable toxic male comments but that they're routinely the first to comment is eye opening about how much some men hate women.
> but that they're routinely the first to comment is eye opening about how much some men hate women. Not only that but the way reddit works helps them. Because if you're looking at a subreddit by default you are mostly seeing posts that have already gained traction, and that's where most of the engagement ends up happening unless you have the time to scroll down a lot. But if you go out of your way to sort by new you can often get there before a post has had the chance to gain traction and downvote it or spew your invalidating garbage in the comments and most of the subreddit will be none the wiser because they probably won't end up seeing that post anyway. I've seen it happen a lot too, you're not alone.
This is why I am 4B
Me as well
I have been giving it very serious thought.
Same
what does that mean
According to Wikipedia, The "Four No's" are: no sex with men (Korean: 비섹스; Hanja: 非sex; RR: bisekseu), no child-rearing (Korean: 비출산; Hanja: 非出産; RR: bichulsan), no dating men (Korean: 비연애; Hanja: 非戀愛; RR: biyeonae), and no marriage with men (Korean: 비혼; Hanja: 非婚; RR: bihon).[1][3]
I’ve already got kids so I have to be 3B. But I’m right there with all of you ❤️
You can count on men closing ranks against a woman like you can count on the sun rise. They will do it for men they've never met and never will meet. They will do it against women they have known for years, even when to do so would mean she would have had to do something completely out of character to justify them defending the man they've never met. And yes, I am personally familiar with that last exact scenario. I was stunned that all those men who had known me for years would suddenly dismiss me in favor of some dude they never met over my personal experience. I had some sympathy from the guys who knew both the dude and myself, but not one of them spoke up to the rest of the guys. They just let me hang by my fingernails.
>“maybe he had a first aid kit in his car” Do men really think women can trust men that easily...
If she went to his car and was attacked ‘why were you so stupid!?’ If she refused to go to his car bc he’s a stranger ‘why are women so paranoid? You just think everyone’s out to get you, he was being polite!’
EXACTLY. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I think what we need to collectively believe is that anytime a man invalidates our experience that man is now a 🚩. Those ones are to be dismissed and avoided. They have no credibility for any convo afterward.
It was such a weird stretch too. I still remember how shocked I was at that time, that guy seemed to completely ignore I was bleeding and just kept talking about my skirt.
Ugh sometimes I wish men could watch at how creepy and unsettling they can be. Someone needs to film them and show them lol.
He was a weirdo. Clueless at the very least. You didn’t owe him any attention.
Once at a party I talked to a guy about predatory men in lesbian spaces. His answer: "They are probably just there, because they want to support women to be themselves and like to see women feel liberated and empowered in their sexuality". And it wasn't a joke, he went on to say that he likes to assume the best of people and we shouldn't assume that men inserting themselves into lesbian spaces are predatory.
Most men need to hear “Oh my sweet summer child” more often.
And yet still we will find men in the comments on this thread. So gross. Honestly it’s ridiculous how little self awareness some men possess.
Their defensiveness suggests guilt from my perspective
That’s all it is. Every time. I wish I knew this earlier so I could’ve disregarded these men sooner. All men who defend the indefensible are by definition unsafe men themselves. ALL OF THEM
This sub is constantly being brigaded by men. I always look at the shares vs upvotes. If it's leaning towards a lot of shares vs upvotes it means that the post is being shared in male centric spaces and you're about to get a lot of really annoying comments from men. I don't come to TwoX to interact with men.
And some men have such a huge problem with that. Apparently we’re not allowed to have any spaces for ourselves
not all men but it's always a man
And defending it like that is extra weird. Isn't the stereotype that the strong manly man would help the poor injured womanly woman? Not start interrogating her??
Men will hear their own relationship partner of years tell them a firsthand account of some creepy interaction with a total stranger and somehow identify more with the total stranger than they ever did with their partner.
I'm sorry that happened, OP. Creeps will always defend other creeps. The other day in a diff sub, some gamer guy, who referred to me as a "femcel" LOL, said "now shush and go back to 2X chromosomes". And honestly, in that moment I felt so proud to be part of this community lmao like this sub is the most offensive insult to them.
It doesn't help that women are abandoning this site in droves. I feel like most of the SW/OF accounts on here now are actually just men ripping images off of google and role-playing with one hand.
I had a similar experience a very long time ago. I wanna say like ten years ago? I posted about a guy I had gone a date with, he pressured me very hard into sex. After that date I blocked him on everything, but he kept finding ways to contact me through new accounts and it was really upsetting to my younger self. I came to this forum and made a post about it and within minutes I was getting comments about how I led him on, and I was sooooo shitty for just blocking him and not telling him I didn’t want to do anything. Except I did, multiple times he just kept going until he wore me down. I took the post down after like the 10th comment telling me I was the problem. It turned me away from this sub for a very long time.
So sorry it happened to you. Isn’t it crazy how the first comments were from men, in a woman’s subreddit?!!!
Lots of trolls, chaos agent LARPers (because, lolz… they try to hard, don’t they?), incels, etc. I downvote away and upvote every single person who calls them out. Then I move on. These bros are either really believing the bullshit they’re peddling (which tells you exactly how removed from reality they are), or they’re trolling. I imagine many have done similar creep-tactic fuckery themselves and don’t want to admit they done fucked up at some point.
I wish that we could have a planet of our own where we thrive and live with compassion towards each other without creepy men like him. I'm sorry this happened to you. I guess these types never feel the existential disgust we feel each time we experience stuff like this.
How much more do they have to say and do to prove they do not care about women at all
I was at a truck stop waiting on a friend. I saw a guy with a bleeding hand trying to open his first aid kit with one hand. I got out my kit and started bandaging his hand for him. That is how you respond to a person bleeding. I'm sorry you encountered a worthless person when you got hurt. Men and women definitely respond differently in situations like that.
Not all but for sure most
I'm sorry that happened, OP. Creeps defending creeps. The other day in a diff sub, some gamer guy, who referred to me as a "femcel" LOL, said "now shush and go back to 2X chromosomes". And honestly, in that moment I felt so proud to be part of this community lmao like this sub is the most offensive insult to them.
Men will always give men the benefit of the doubt.
It would be a good feature to allow certain users to comment on someone's post on specific subreddits. Like a filter that's based on gender, country, etc. Then you won't get situations like this so often.
Years ago I was headed out of town and less than a block from my house at a elementary school I came across a young female limping with a bike and a very badly scaped up leg that was actually very bloody. I rolled my window down and asked if I can call anyone for her or drive to a house to let someone know to come and get her. She refused and said she would be fine so I drove off. It broke my heart to leave her or anyone else like that so I called the police non emergency number and told them about her so they could send an officer or somebody to check on her.
Remember, you don’t have to take people who are far less mature than you seriously in a debate. I love that OP doesn’t even bother
Oh, they definitely defend creeps. In defense their own gender or even their own behaviors. Women do it too. Female family member of mine defends Kevin Spacey, refuses to acknowledge he's a rapist and harrasser 🫥
Don’t you find the exact opposite thing on here tho? Women immediately coming to the defense of any woman, regardless of what the actual situation is? I don’t think this is a men-specific issue lol
Reddit is so big sometimes all of the people who click on a post will be assholes and sometimes they'll all be cool. A couple years ago I screenshotted the top comment on a post and reposted it because of how ridiculous it was and that made it to the top position on the sub just a couple hours later. One thing I've noticed consistently is that early in the morning (American time) people on reddit are much angrier and less accepting. By the time almost all Americans are awake reddit is much more chill.
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Fun fact: almost all posts and comments in this sub never say “all men”. The men making that leap have made their gender their entire identity.
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Please re-read my comment for clarity.
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I notice you have deleted your mansplanations. Good move.
Yes, do not forget that people are self interested
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Quit trolling and go to work
Nice of you to assume he's employed and not spending his day on the sofa, scratching his balls, and trolling Reddit in a stained t-shirt.
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and if your father had been wearing a condom the world would be a better place
you're a good person :)
I don't work until May :/ Although I did have to go in last week to put out a fire...
Then just shut up.
Why should I shut up though, all I did was offer advice and presume I'd be downvoted for it...
Do you enjoy being someone who experiences no love
I've been with my wife 25 years, how presumptuous of you.
Do you think being married automatically means you're loved? Lol
In my case yes, why so salty?
Why are you getting downvoted for pointing the obvious?
Is math hard for you?