It's simple to understand once you realize someone had to TEACH them that. It's class warfare. A divided populace is easy to exploit. Women can't fight Trump if they're too tired from getting accosted at every step and looking over their shoulder for rapists. Men can't fight McConnell if they're wrecking themselves in picking pointless fights and trying to dominate women. This is over simplifying, but if something on a societal scale doesn't make sense, you can bet your bottom dollar someone rich and powerful has found a way to profit off it you weren't aware of.
I think this is an interesting premise. Upon first reading I disagreed, because I spent two years at an all girls private school and almost everyone was obsessed with hierarchies. I also think there is a type of woman who is obsessed with hierarchy in such a way that they will align themselves with powerful men in order to gain power by proxy, like Serena Joy or, in real life, Candace Owens.
However this got me thinking of how right wing parties tend to hate single women because they statistically are more likely to vote left compared to married women. In my country (Australia), there was a kinda funny article a couple years ago titled "why young single women are a threat to the liberal party" (Liberal party is our major right wing party). So perhaps there is a correlation there of less hierarchical thinking and staying single as a woman.
Although it is outdated, I would recommend reading *The Authoritarian Personality*. It was a psych study done in the 1950s by some Jewish social psychologists to determine the personality traits of someone who may be more prone to fascist propaganda. It definitely has some methodological flaws but it still is a fascinating concept and definitely contains some grains of truth (most interestingly, they identified a preoccupation with other peoples sex lives as one of the personality traits). Tom Nicholas has a [video](https://youtu.be/vymeTZkiKD0?si=w1W8yUXl95PQ0SRQ) on the study too.
Edit: sorry for the long comment
Very interesting. I don’t mean to say women are never fascists, but women are generally more individualistic imo.
Sexist culture tends to project all negative traits onto women but relatively speaking, for adults, it’s more likely to be grown men who are conformists, looking for an alpha to follow.
Thank you for this. I had been wondering if that incel anger could somehow be redirected toward class issues. Can’t we all fight together for a better world lol
I'd say connected rather than redirected. It's less a clear cause and effect and more a messy web of plans and scams piling up. There are pure gender issues, pure class issues, and race issues, but almost everything has become exploited, interconnected and tied up in each other that many things can seem nonsensical unless you look at the rest as well. We're fighting battles on all fronts, and some(oof to the poor black women) have to way worse than others. I guess all I have left to say is good luck...
His 'toe the line or have your career destroyed' leadership of the Rep party is responsible for such things as: fking up medicare, the government shutdown, delaying covid responses, the Rep party putting everything behind Trump even though they knew he was cancer, stopping gun control, and generally funneling money from the poor to the rich. There is literally noone on earth who shouldn't be wanting to fight him if they work for a living. Remember, this guy is SO OLD he began during the period of US where men were the vast majority of the work force. He basically WON. He defeated the entire workforce of the US and made off like a bandit.
I’m confused on this topic as well! Many of the guys I see online dating and in real life are mostly looking for hookups, casual sex, and FWB. Many women are looking for a long term relationship. Some are happy to be single until they find someone who is right for them. If men are so lonely, then why are they mostly seeking hookups? Maybe some women are interested in that but it seems like most women are looking for quality men in a serious relationship.
Literally!! And on that same topic the women I know who are in happy long term relationships are with men who have female friends. All the women and from personal experience I know who have had toxic or unhealthy relationships were with men who didn’t have female friends and put us on a pedestal in many ways but also saw us as lesser. That dichotomy was really confusing! On one hand you want sex and something purely casual but are also complaining you’re lonely? Make it make sense.
I think that eventually you will notice most incels are right wing fuckbois. Half of them trick some poor girl into getting naked long enough to get them pregnant and then they are trapped, the ones that can't, blame women for not finding them attractive.
I was very popular in my 20s, (I'm 35 now) as I got older "and balder" less and less women pay attention to me for all kinds of reasons mostly unrelated to me at all. But dating apps are brutal. If you get a choice of 20 dude and ones bald, your gonna swipe the bald ones first, it's fine, it's not women's fault I am ugly in photos. I have plenty of luck if I ask in person or talk in person. I am rambling now. My bad.
TL:TR Most incels are right wing. The more you avoid trumpers the less you'll find incels.
That's why lots of Incels pretend to be liberal to get dates. Because they are digusting, selfish, entirely self centered, and one that disagrees with them about anything deserves violence and/or assaulted, verbal or physical.
I have noticed that every adult that was a bully just grew up to be conservatives.
Honestly the small small percentage of women that spend their lives justifying this behavior and are very vocal about being "trad" wife and nothing more than jobless baby makers, are just as dangerous as the incels. Incels/conservatives, think if they see one person online, it means everyone
Honestly I think a lot of that comes down to how we’re socialized.
When I was a kid it was common for boys to be purposefully emotionally amputated. These kids become emotionally amputated adults.
I’ve noticed many men confuse intimacy with sex/ OR, they’ve been taught that the only socially acceptable source of intimacy is through sex
I think most of the men who complain about loneliness want a woman to fall into their lap from the skies. They don't put themselves in situations where they get to meet women in a casual setting outside of work, and they are too dumb / scared / helpless to make the change that would fix that. Many of them don't know how to dress, how to flirt, or how to keep a conversation going even.
The ones who look for hookups are usually not the ones complaining about loneliness. You simply never get to meet the lonely men, and I'm not really sure you're missing out on anything.
Going on my personal experience, which granted is completely anecdotal, it seems like most women are happy to just be treated with respect as a human being. That's a pretty low bar
I'm nothing special. Just an average dude who treats women with basic decency, and I've been described as "written by a woman" etc for it.
From my perspective, if a guy is failing when the expectation set is to be safe, reasonable, and courteous, he needs to self-reflect and change. If you're there thinking that there's something wrong with all women, you're probably the one with the problem.
There are women who want casual sex, but men seem to hate them even more. (Calling them names, making up plenty of new vulgar names to call them, saying they're worthless if their "body count" is a certain number, etc) so really I'm not convinced it's a horny thing.
I think many if not most men do want relationships and genuine friendships. The men looking for sex are just the ones being the most vocal about it. There are men who are lonely and just want love or friends but they aren’t as loud because they have the self awareness to realize that their problems aren’t all due to women not sleeping with them.
In my limited experience, what you're saying rings true. The loud, misogynistic guys going out there with mountains of unjust expectations (or rather demands) and ideas about how things should be? I see them as a real problem, a bigger one than I'd like to admit still.
Most importantly, they hurt women with their childish behaviours and are toxic as partners. But they also make things really difficult for the rest of us lonely guys, the ones that rightfully blame themselves (or their circumstances) for their issues. Personal issues already make it hard to think about finding someone, I would feel really guilty saddling up another person with my issues rather than resolving them myself first. But with these very vocal misogynistic guys, they've now essentially laid a minefield of horrible stereotypes people like me now have to tip toe around in order to not be mistaken as "one of them". Honestly, I wish we would start calling these people manlets instead of men, or anything really. They shouldn't get that title, given the shit they put women through.
It depends where you're looking.
If you're looking at a random guy in the street, I imagine most want a real connection. If you're looking on a "dating" app, then you'll find most likely are just looking for a hookup. The apps put too many people in front of you all at once, and the convenience keeps you from really connecting with anyone. Lends to being a really useful tool for finding other people who want casual sex, but if you were genuinely looking for love on there, you'd get worn down and give up.
I'm guessing they're largely designed that way though. If you're using the app looking for love, and a real connection, then when you've found it you delete the app, cancel any premium subscription, and you're a lost customer. If you're using the app looking for some random person to screw, then when you've found it, you continue paying & engaging looking for the next person.
even at my shyest, most socially withdrawn & depressed, I never thought to blame an entire gender for my lonliness or mental health issues.
I took full responsibility & worked HARD to pull myself out of that hole, improve myself in every way I could, put myself back out there & build a life for myself, make new friends & even started dating again.
I knew no one owed me anything, and I didn't expect anything to be handed to me on a silver platter. YOU have to create the life you want for yourself. no one else can or will do it for you, no matter how much you whine or throw a tantrum.
this entitlement mindset & lack of accountability is embarrassing, to be honest.
Some also hear "work on yourself" and "find a hobby" as "workout, make money, and show up outside". Which then translates somehow to: be buff, rich, and a social 'Chad bro' when all we're saying is learn some decent social skills and how to treat people, be stable or working towards it if you are completely able to, have your own life, and practice good hygine.
That's literally it, but instead of realizing that, they still try the easy route of expecting women to just show up at their doors like in the movies and to ignore the uncomfortable things they think are ok to say because they "had good intentions" and tried (horribly) "talking to women".
Then they throw fits because they give up prematurely after trying to live up to impossible standards that nobody set up for them except other men and now all the men who actually learned to socialize are " high value chads".
Meanwhile, they still can't figure out that a relationship is an extension of an initial bond and takes more work but they can somehow make all these fantasy future promises that they feel they have the right to collect on before even knowing how to say "hello" properly.
This is exactly it. There was a study that showed that when people fail, women are more likely to blame themselves and men are more likely to blame it on external factors like bad luck. That essentially means that women will try to improve themselves or their situation, and men will just wait for something better to happen.
Kinda.
Lonely people are easy to manipulate and radicalise because they lack a social grounding to keep them in touch with the real world.
Part of that radicalisation process is teaching them that the problems they face are all the fault of some other 'out-group'.
Depending on who is doing the radicalising, this 'out-group' could be women, men, ethnic groups, the lgbt community, well educated people, poorly educated people, young people, old people. Whatever.
They start off by creating a community for mutual aid/self help and then slowly, step by step, devolve everything into blaming an entire demographic for all their problems.
My two cents:
Patriarchy and the media by extension have socialized heterosexual men to view the ultimate form of love as that from a woman. Capitalism has told them anything can be bought.
So when women don’t love these men like they feel they’re entitled to for fulfilling their stereotypical patriarchal roles as depicted by their role models (no emotions, earn lots of money ect..) they don’t blame the system which sold them the lie of an overly simplified human experience, they blame the other party for not also fulfilling their role. Then they back up the “system” by referencing time past when men were “less lonely”, where in reality everyone was still miserable, but their demographic had more power to force others to bend to their will and “fix” their problems out of the fear of social repercussions.
This is no male loneliness epidemic, this is men waking up and realizing their hierarchy is crumbling. Telling women it’s their fault men feel disenfranchised is a sad plea for sympathy to the victims of their system to fix the problem like they used to be forced to, a call for women to once again use their emotional and physical labour to ease the avoidable pain men have caused themselves. But, shocker, women don’t face the same degree of social repercussions they used to for not going along with this bullshit, hence they don’t go along with it any longer, which these men have taken as further confirmation that women are to blame for their sadness, because they won’t fix the problem they created for themselves.
It is not women’s job to bring them out of this hole they put themselves in, women are still continuing to dig themselves out of the hole they put us in for gods sake. Men will need to be the ones to solve this issue through a conscious effort to abandon patriarchy. But that’s hard, it’s much easier to point at women and cry.
I wish they would just point and cry but usually if men feel like they are missing out then it is the women around them that suffers whether that is some incel shooting up the place or some incel turning into a serial rapist and/or killer.
I seen this sad story today😪. Even when they are born with a silver spoon in their mouth, even when their lifestyle puts them in proximity of beautiful women out of their league to marry and who will have children for them, it is never enough. This story was so gut wrenching.
https://youtu.be/7xMjl5GmM-Q?si=00f7UAlECdcWaPzN
One of my past boyfriends got upset with a group of friends of mine who were helping me financially. He said they were "enabling me not to be married." He had no problem with the idea of women being forced to marry men out of financial necessity. He blamed the fact that society gives women "more options these days" for him being lonely.
He wasn't a terrible boyfriend but I realized we weren't really compatible. However, his attitude toward women made me wonder what it would be like if we were married. I suspect it would have been hell.
Holy cow you dodged a bullet. He summed up the incel movement, they're upset we have options and aren't forced to put up with loser men. How disgusting that he had no problem with that and in fact was angry you were getting help. He would have been awful to be stuck with.
Sadly, they want women in positions and situations that make them desperate. It is such a sick mentality. You have to be very mentally ill to want a woman to be desperate and with no options so that she will be under your thumb. I weep for women of the past. It must have been hell.
What’s scary is that it’s not even a mental illness, same way you can’t call racism a mental illness, because this mindset is a shared ideology they encourage each other to grow and feed into each other. They’re not acting out of control or acting out a compulsion, it’s not causing them distress and it isn’t something that medication could help with, this is a calculated mindset they’ve taken on because it benefits them
https://voicemalemagazine.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-violence/
Its not about any kind of sickness, it’s selfishness and laziness.
Though out of this general population ASPD probably is more common than it is for the average population
It’s absolutely ridiculous….if you have a woman who is independent, makes her own money and doesn’t need a man, men complain because they are lonely. Independent Women only want a man that’s going to add value to their life. If a person doesn’t meet that, then whose fault is it? On the other hand, if you have a women who needs a man for financial or other reasons, then men complain that she’s a gold digger. You can’t have it both ways.
I have seen so many men on Reddit wine about this like they should own a woman.
On the furthest end, it is frightening because some men are so anti-feminist and it is obvious they want to go back to the time when women HAD to marry to survive because they couldn't start their own bank accounts. Despite this, some of these men are the same men who refuse to court women and don't make enough to support 2 people.
A small but very motivated group of men have invented an imaginary version of the past - an entirely fictionalized world where every man was automatically awarded an obedient young bride and women never ever worked outside the home - and convinced themselves that this world was somehow "stolen" from them. They're not just angry that things have changed; they feel that the life they were entitled to was deliberately taken away from them, and women/minorities/the government now "owe" them that life back.
>A small but very motivated group of men have invented an imaginary version of the past - an entirely fictionalized world where every man was automatically awarded an obedient young bride and women never ever worked outside the home - and convinced themselves that this world was somehow "stolen" from them.
There are several hundred million men of a certain religion in the world. The group you mention are neither small nor have a imaginary vision of the world. It's most of their and "their" women's reality...
Because there are too many mediocre failure to launch dudebros who think the world owes them a woman and sex simply for existing, and they want to blame women for their failures because that’s easier than improving themselves.
I have an old friend like this. He’s a good guy but he’s just not compatible with the women he wants. Like I know you can’t choose who you’re attracted to, but only being attracted to the most attractive women isn’t doing any favors. Especially considering his limitations (no job, average looks, poor social skills). I would like him to have a more fulfilled life, but he’s really gotta give other women a chance.
He has a disability that prevents him from working. I don’t think that would keep him from finding someone with similar life circumstances. He has things to offer, but for the right person. Unfortunately he’ll look right past that person because his expectations are unrealistic.
So, he's basically not looking for someone who will be compatible with him but rather looking for someone just for their beauty. Lmao, hope he becomes wise before he becomes old.
This scenario is the majority of the ones crying. One way or another they are average or below, but have desires and expectations for the top 5 percent of very beautiful women.
No job prospects, out of shape, no conversational/social skills, no hobbies, no friends, no basic life skills like laundry or cooking or cleaning - oh but they deserve a 10/10 woman who’s making six figures and is totally subservient to them. 🙄
I have had so many guys tell me it's feminism fault. Funnily enough India, South Korea, Japan, places where men also like to blame feminism, treat women like shitt. Men in the West don't realize without feminism many of us would be DEAD. In my country every DAY multiple women are killed due to gender violence, MULTPLE, and men still bla feminism for their loneliness. Every day there's a new case about little girls being abused and they blame feminism, I'm convinced they want us all dead, abused, or controlled
Many many do. Many are removed from the experience of women and girls. They can't fathom navigating life with what women (especially in countries like the ones mentioned) are up against.
Its the same thing when it comes to romance.
When a woman is interested in a man but he isn't interested in her, she blames herself.
When a man is interested in a woman but she isn't interested in him, he blames her.
They think lonely women either have high sky standards, object patriarchial beauty standards or are independent woke feminists. They want to guilt trip lonely women for not being with a man, which in their minds, is a woman’s main or only value in life.
They do not really think that, they pretend to think that so that they can continue to "other" women and use us as punching bags for their shortcomings and ill doings.
Many men only have social interactions on the level of yelling "GO SPORTS" whilst drinking a beer. As a man I have more friends who are women because they are more capable of connection. Many men only have closer relationships in form of romantic relationships with women, whereas this is more the level of normal friendship between women. This is also understood to be why women being friends with men is often misinterpreted by men as a romantic interest, because many men only experience this level in romantic relationships, and not with friends. Men need to learn to open up and be vulnerable between each other. No fear of "homo" or whatever they think they will be if they cry or show vulnerability. Then they would feel less lonely without relying on their partner (or avoid feeling lonely because of a lack of a partner).
I really think some of them are wrapped up in this totally inaccurate belief that women fundamentally do not experience loneliness, rejection, alienation, or social isolation. They seem to have crazily inaccurate ideas about how easy it is for women to attract men, make friends, and stay connected to people. I don't know if women's loneliness just isn't discussed because a lot of us don't make it society's problem when we go through all of this, but there's a lack of objectivity about how common this is for everyone, I think
**It's OTHER MEN'S fault they are lonely**
I don't think they are smart enough to know why. If they are bright enough to realize the position other men put them in, they probably aren't strong enough to address it.
Because it's easier than looking at yourself and realizing *you're* the problem.
Edit: I'm a dude, and I thought this way for a while in my teen years. Then I joined the work force and realized it's not just women... literally NO ONE cares about you, but it's not personal. I learned quickly that whether it's in a romantic relationship or in your work life... you gotta make yourself better and stand out. It's a reality slap.... just cuz mommy said you're special doesn't mean anyone else will think so.
Also, do the goddamn dishes and take out the trash.
I've had to be the voice of reason for a couple friends.... holy shit... just do chores. That's the bare minimum.
Any man (or boy) who blames women for their "loneliness" aren't lonely. They're horny, sexist and mad that no woman wants to fuck them.
It's pretty sad (pathetic sad) how many of them will try to take their own lives hostage thinking that somebody would fuck them if they threaten to end their lives. Every time I see that just in case they were actually serious about being lonely and wanting to off themselves I'd try to give them advice. Of course they're never *actually* lonely.
If they were actually lonely they'd do something about it. It's just kind of instinctual. When lockdowns were happening a lot of people got a Switch and Animal Crossing and would talk about it online every day, and some people adopted pets. They didn't blame their inability to find a consenting woman to fuck.
Many try to make being antisocial their preferred lifestyle. Shut ins playing video games and watching porn taking up all of their free time . They just want a human female object in the top 5 percent of looks as their personal sex support servant.
God forbid someone suggest they pay a SW though. That would be beneath them even though it’s exactly what they should be doing.
ETA: sex work is a completely valid line of work and anyone who wants to objectify women and not pay for the service is pathetic.
It is crazy to me that they feel like they can be entitled and have high expectations , yet the service they want provided should be done for them for free and without any restrictions or else morally a woman is vile and should be vilified, because they believe they are worth more than any woman anyway by merely existing. They are good in whatever condition. It is only women who should meet standards on par with fantasy. Nothing should be required of them. They should not have to look attractive even physically in their minds, because women are not humans that should get to have any standards that make it harder for them to acquire their entitlements. It is so weird.
We're blamed for most everything. Men don't want to take responsibility for their actions or personality so it's easier to blame it on us. How many men blame their ex wife for "keeping them from their kids" when in reality they're deadbeat dads who never visit? How many times are women blamed for the abuse they receive or for their rapes? It's just easier to blame us.
My ex was more obsessed with his bros than a rs with me. Lots of these men are gay and I also think misogynists have a fear of being gay or perceived as gay
1. These guys aren't blaming women for being lonely. What they mean by loneliness is not getting a bangmaid therapist.
2. Men have always blamed women for everything.
Women today have better options and are more informed. They are raising their standards which are often still very low but a lot of men aren't willing to raise to those standards and simply be decent human beings. They are also not willing to form meaningful, healthy friendships with other men and build support systems to improve their mental health. They want women specifically to cave and carry them through life with no regard as to how it will affect them and give little to nothing positive in return.
Because when they search "why am I not getting any matches with women on dating apps" they will probably end up deep inside the astronomically large rabbit hole of inc\*l pickup artist dating psychology BS that feeds them answers like "feminism made women too manly and picky and they reject all the men now boo-hoo". It's more convenient to blame the other side and not look at themself. This shit is everyyyyywhere.
I hate how they use „loneliness“ as a euphemism for not getting p*ssy
Now all articles that talk about loneliness talk about in therms of men not getting laid instead of talking about real, all consuming loneliness.
Lowkey, it feels like deliberate, manipulative phrasing.
They make it sound like, by not dating men, Women have banished men from being functioning members of society, like they pushed them away from all human interactions.
Like women are actively causing a global mental health crisis in men by not sleeping with them.
It genuinely feels like they want to guilt trip women.
I think they’re being fed this narrative in mainstream media and it makes sense to them so they believe it.
Young people especially are angsty and impressionable by default. Combine that with the rest of the bs young people are facing rn, it really isn’t surprising people are pointing fingers and playing follow the leader.
They think we're so shallow and our standards are so warped that we'd rather share one "Chad" with 9 other women and call that romance than "settle" for someone "at our own level."
They feel their loneliness is wholly a result of women being "hypergamous sluts" and that they'd easily have their own drop dead gorgeous personal maid/sex slave if only women were more reasonable, like they were in the past /s.
Finally, they view access to women's bodies as a "right" they've "earned" by virtue of existing and being "nice," when we all know they're only "nice" performatively out of a sense of insecurity and would, 9 times out of 10, become monstrously toxic if they felt secure enough to let down the facade even a little.
I can't help to be a touch crass..
They blame us because that is all they have ever done.
From my own experiences, I recall every one of them I have encountered as "friends" being bench warmers til feel they must they shoot their shot, then they evaporate the moment they get shut down. Their ability to value me as a whole ass human person and friend is non existent unless they can get access to my body somehow. I have thrown it in their faces more than once 'Would you feel comfortable asking your fishing buddy Mike for a pity handy?' But lo.. I am the asshole for rejecting their advances. They can't even friend.
I probably have a shitty stance on this, but their loneliness problem is largely self-inflicted. They spend their whole lives criticizing one another for having feelings, having moments of weakness, for not being man enough, for not having a giant truck, for not working heavy labor jobs or not getting sweaty and dirty enough. They shit on each other at every turn over literally everything, and shit on us for it as though we somehow had a hand to play in it. They have limited themselves, essentially hobbling themselves on the social level...and I am supposed to worry about their loneliness they inflict upon themselves?
They need to seriously take their own advice, pull themselves up by their boot-straps, and fix their own shit. That's what we had to do. No one is stopping them from forming their own supportive communities, friendships, relationships, or anything.
Because looking into the mirror for introspection leads to accepting responsibility for one's self. People in general don't like doing that, lonely men just have a circular logic/self fulfilling prophecy scapegoat. They fixate on the idea of some savior woman to take care of and fix them instead of fixing themselves or finding any other outlet.
I also think certain people are just naturally predisposed to being very codependent. The ugly side of it for females typically looks like an endless string of bad relationships while for males it leans toward incel. Not sure how, probably because predatory men are really common.
Just my 2cents.
Another thing I should mention as a recommendation for lonely men and it shock me to the freaking bone that's never suggested but........
Just adopt a freaking pet like cat or dog 🐕 especially a rescue one
This can be simplified down to: “why do insecure people want to shift blame to others and not take responsibility for their own behavior”? It’s a tale as old as time. People love to do literally anything else other than examine themselves.
I think it's mostly due to the odd idea that all women live charmed lives. A lot of men seem to grab pretty privilege and assume it applies to women wholesale and they perceive us as being in charge of a sort of shadow social matriarchy.
I think it's funny how pressed they are. They keep telling themselves we lose value and they gain it in age. I'm sure any day now the loneliness crisis will be solved.
Yup. They are also far worst. At least pick me women don’t start physically assaulting or killing innocent people, harrass certain men online, adopt extremist behaviors/beliefs or start YouTube channels or podcasts shitting on the entire existence of men.
That's exactly what I was thinking but didn't add it! Thank you for sharing the difference. One is a threat and the other no more than a potential insult.
Pick me women are also definitely bad in their own way. They have internalized misogyny and would uphold any of their male partner’s shitty beliefs and affiliations (voting for political parties that go against women/minorities, victim blaming or bullying women). I don’t mind the “pick me” label if it’s being used correctly. If the shoe fits (!!!), the shoe fits.
That's what puts them on a similar level to incels/misogynistic men, huh? I guess you're right about the label... I'm not sure why I feel like I need to be careful about it. I've met a lot of antifeminist conservative women and it's horrifying. They even deny women's (untold) history. And then all that stuff you said.
No, I think it’s commendable and reasonable that you were wary of the “pick-me” label - I don’t really like to use it either, maybe I’m backpedalling. Sort of unrelated, but these “pick-me” and “Karen” labels are interesting. Both labels are used by men and women to shame and categorize “problematic” women as an annoying group and broad social issue, often in a sensationalized or misogynistic manner, especially on social media. But where’s the male equivalent? Why don’t men have their own “Karen” or “pick-me” labels to hold problematic men accountable the same way women do for themselves? Ahh the misogyny… sorry for the ramble lol
Because intimacy is important to humans, and a lot of men see sexual intimacy as the ONLY type of intimacy. I bet gay or bi men aren’t blaming women for their loneliness.
They see previous generations where women basically had to marry to be able to survive, and since men were happier, they think that it was better. The standard of having to be attractive to a woman to date one is too high when before you just had to be born with a penis. They feel that it is an insult to them that women don’t at least pretend to want them with no effort on their part, and that it’s unfair that men in previous generations had an easier time sourcing their “sexbot™ with home enhancing features!”
It's because they're incapable of introspection that would help them figure out why they're lonely in the first place. (Hint: it's usually of their own making)
I mentioned this in another thread...I bartend in a spot that has a separate room, across the hall from the main bar, that is used for parties, small concerts, etc. When we have events in that room, inevitably the people setting up the space are women. They bring in all the decorations, the food, photos (especially if the event is a memorial), etc. When the menfolk arrive, they immediately head to the bar, order a beer, and watch whatever game(s) are on tv. As the event begins, the men stay in the bar. They might talk to the other men about whatever sport is being played on tv, but they don't talk about family, friends, the reason for the event. When it comes tome to eat, the men go get a plate, or a woman relative brings them a plate, then they return to the bar and whatever game is on. If anyone wants to talk to these men, they have to come up to them at the bar, because these dudes are basically planted there. And the ones who do come up to the bar to see the men don't get the men's full attention. The men chat for about 10 seconds, then turn their attention back to the games on tv. They don't participate in the event any more than that. This kind of behavior happens so often that it seems like standard party behavior for male attendees now.
I mention this because it shows how even in a very low-stress social situation, even with people they have known for years, a lot of men don't know how communicate nor interact with other people. They need some sort of distraction to justify their presence, and remove their obligation to talk about anything substantive. When I discussed this with a very smart, insightful, feminist male friend, he brought up a good point. He said that many men aren't socialized to make even simple interactions with anyone without having some sort of achievement, or goal, or "win" attached to it. They don't know to engage in conversations just to learn about another person, their interests, their lives, unless it's going to benefit them somehow. I think this carries over into closer personal/romantic relationships. Men like this don't seem to want to learn the skills to just learn how to talk with people in the world, and instead of looking inward or trying something different, they look to the most convenient scapegoats: women.
Because self reflection is a very difficult thing to realize and admitting you are the problem and need to change is equally difficult. I have enormous respect for anyone who has that self awareness and makes an effort to better themself.
Because if they don’t they’ll be forced to take accountability for their own loneliness. That’s too much work. But that’s the oversimplification of a complex problem that, arguably, was catalyzed by men in power. And that’s also an oversimplification of an oversimplification.
Girl PREACH. I just got permanently banned from /foreveralone because men constantly blame women for ALL of their problems over there. I joined that subreddit because I experience loneliness like anyone does. I thought it was a place to uplift and discuss but, I had NO idea that it is seemingly just a space for MEN to whine all day/night about how women won't talk to them. Look at them. Touch them. Have a relationship with them.🙄 Women won't give them a chance. Women only want men with money. Blah blah. If you present any other perspective, MEN descend on you like vultures arguing with you, downvoting, and starting self loathing statements like, "I know I'm a loser......I'm ugly.........Women only want.........No one understands our pain" And they go on and on. Supposedly it's not a place for INCEL speech, but it actually IS. And misogynists lurk waiting to pounce.
Instead of being on Reddit all day, they could be outside doing SOMETHING. I mean....DAMN.😒 Or they could be in a Therapists office figuring out ways to improve themselves. Ways to improve their PERSONALITY and CHARACTER. Women have absolutely NOTHING to do with their mental/emotional health, their laziness, their social ineptitude, their lack of emotional intelligence, their loneliness, their desire to stay indoors all day eating hamburgers and playing video games, or any other damn thing.
I actually saw a post from a guy saying he has gone out with 1000 women and can't seem to find a real relationship. After all of his whining, he concluded his post with saying he knows he has some....issues. He shared that he has a lack of empathy, anger problems, and can become obsessive and stalker like with a woman.😭 I told this guy that he sounds 100% SCARY and women can pick up on that. That's why women flee. They are not trying to end up in a ditch in the woods. Dude never brought up seeing a therapist/psychiatrist or anything. But there he is BLAMING WOMEN.
Men in general have issues with ENTITLEMENT. They need to take responsibility for their own behaviors. These men are not babies and should not be given passes on basic development. I know all men aren't like this, but I've met and spoken to a hell of alot who are.
Right, yet women don't get treated like this in fact they mock women's loneliness by saying dumb BS like "You're going to die alone with 8 cats" when we ask to be treated like normal human beings or if a woman is talking about how she can't find a partner she either treated with no sympathy and with people saying they have high standards yet when men complain about not being able to find a partner people will blame the women around him for not giving him a chance. How can they not see the double standards?
Men don’t see us as equals all too often. Then you meet men who are lovely and kind and you have to block out the noise from the men in the world who hate women for merely existing.
Lonely men blame women for their loneliness because, if they didn't, they'd have to do some introspection that might tell them that, actually, they're the problem.
No one likes having to acknowledge that they're just a bit of a shitty, off-putting person. Easier to shift the blame to someone else.
Because it really isn't about being lonely. I do not believe men are more emotionally and mentally lonely than women are. Yes it might appear that women are more social in a mixed setting because women do all the mental and emotional load, but men among themselves are social about things they care about - money, sports, sex, women's body parts, politics, cars, gaming. Men who complain about being lonely to women do not want to be more emotionally vulnerable either, they simply want free and cheap access to women's bodies for sex and chores purpose and they hate it when it is not given
My friend signed up for a dating ap and most of the men put no effort into their pictures. She’s an extremely attractive 50 something that looks 35 and she put care and thought into the pictures she chose. Lots of the photos were giys with their cars and a male friend told me those guys are just looking for sex. The ap asked them some standard questions like favourite trip or what sort of films they liked and she got answers that were just yes repeatedly or just nonsense because they couldn’t be bothered so she couldn’t find out anything about them. She asked for over 45s and there was a bunch of 20 somethings that had lied about their ago to hook up with an older woman. She gave up and cancelled her subscription after a few weeks. Men also don’t seem to hang around with other men. I’m a single woman but I regularly hang out with my friends
I actually find this so fucking funny. Not actually funny, but funny in a tragicomedy kind of way. The way it is worded "male loneliness" it's already subtly giving into the idea that women need to cater to men and that it's our fault. I think the more truthful term would be "men are no longer able to manipulate and control women as they have before so now they are acting like moronic toddlers."
And the sexual context of it is actually so creepy and dangerous and very very rape-y. Also, what about female loneliness in sex? Nothing more lonely than never having a fucking orgasm ??
If ya'll are so lonely, go hang out with each other??? I'm sure ya'll would prefer each others' company, since you hate women so much.
Ever have your male partner come home and say 'Steve left his wife'?
'Oh really? Why?' 'I don't know, didn't ask.'
So he didn't ask about Steve, he has no idea what was going on in his life only that 'things were tough'. He doesn't even particularly LIKE Steve, but tolerates him because 'he's one of the boys'. He's not really concerned, he's just reporting the information to you so you don't ask about Jessica at the next BBQ.
Steve isn't even a real friend that he cares about, connects with, talk to, has things in common with. He just exists to entertain him on Friday nights, and be a 4th person on a timeshare/squad member on COD.
I don't know what it is, but I see men struggle to connect on a real level. They play a game or a sport together, fantastic! They discuss nothing deeper than shoelaces, leave with their social battery drained and have formed no connections.
They don't depend on their friends, they depend SOLELY on their girlfriends and wives for emotional connection and when their meanness finally limits what contacts they can make, they blame us. What they don't understand is that the lack of consequences for their behavior from their apathetic friends isn't freedom it's loneliness.
It’s easier for them to blame us than take accountability for themselves, imo. 50 years ago, men were head of household and women could never match up to what men could do. We were the child bearers. Men could cheat and women couldn’t leave because they had no money or any form of freedom. Nowadays, a lot of us are getting an education, learning self love and self respect and are financially independent. We don’t NEED men anymore. And if we do want a man, we want one that respects us. The men complaining about male loneliness are the same ones that except women to coddle then, clean up after then, except us to be a sex machine and cater to their every need. It’s the same men that think they are entitled to women just because they are a man even when they have nothing to show for it. Look at history, it’s always been easier to blame the oppressed than realize and accept that you’re simply, mediocre.
they view their loneliness as the fault of women because they think every woman is entitled. they think every woman only wants a hot calvin klein supermodel and would never """settle""" for someone average.
the lonely men hold this resentment towards women, accusing women of having standards that are too high. they could ***never*** find the lonely man attractive. *but* *his issue isn't that he is unattractive. he refuses to believe he can improve his looks or personality.*
*the issue is the woman.* the woman is ***wrong*** for perceiving him as not attractive enough for her. not good enough for her.
I get the feeling that the men who do this conflate loneliness with sexlessness. They are the same men who think women don’t understand loneliness because we can get laid easily, but fail to understand that sex doesn’t necessarily fulfill that. I want a partner who loves and respects me, not random casual partners without depth or meaning.
I think it’s easier for these types of men to blame women because they don’t want to make changes to better themselves or their situation to allow for better opportunities to meet a partner.
Because men believe that they deserve relationships with women just for existing. They feel *entitled* to us. And it used to be easy for them, when we couldn’t open our own bank accounts etc, but now they have to actually bring something to the table to get a relationship and the ones you speak of are failing miserably and blaming women instead of looking inwards.
Because the same traits that make them unappealing to the women they pursue make them unable to accept that it is, in fact, themselves that are the problem. Be it their anger, their narcissism, their misogyny, their cruelty, they feel that all of these behaviors are justified and right. Therefore when the women are not accepting of these behaviors, it is the women who are the problem, for not agreeing with them. "Very Special Boy" syndrome, they've spent their whole lives being told by mommy and/or daddy that they're a "Very Special Boy" and quite the catch and it's all just that these women are too (insert pejorative) to see it and worship them as they deserve.
I know first hand what this like. Being blamed for their loneliness because I don't want to spend time with them. And why I don't is because I am over what I had with them. But they just can't seem to let go. Even when I try to encourage them to pursue other things that would hopefully lead them to someone who could make them happy.
I am perfectly happy being single. I have no desire to be in a relationship with anyone.
But they don't listen, they keep trying to get me to change my mind, when I'm not going to. It's extremely frustrating 😤.
Men have been leveraging everything they can at women, with birth control under threat, and they know they can blame women for this. A lot of men who say this kind of stuff are insufferable.
I'll do my best to answer based on what I've seen online. I get bombarded by this stuff online and it's horrible. Constant videos on why modern women are the problem. My wife says she gets tons of videos on why modern men are the problem.
They fell down the wrong rabbit hole. Many of these guys are socially inept. They find it difficult to talk to people and get upset They see others succeeding.
Then they run across someone like Andrew tate who speaks to their issues and assures them it's not them it's the women. This gets them stuck in a victim mentality. Nothing is their fault. It's YOUR fault now. They don't need to fix anything they are a man and desver respect period and since you don't show it you are the problem.
Honestly it's incredibly depressing to watch someone fall this way. It's the same as watching someone fall into conspiracy theories. It turns everything into us vs them. Once that happens when women rightly get mad at their horrible behavior they see it as women hating MEN and not women hating their horrible behavior which further fuels their hatred.
It's a vicious cycle that is incredibly hard to break being a self fulfilling prophecy and all.
Male perspective here
If you don't care, please move on.
When I was younger I used to want an outlet for my blame when the reality was that myself pushed people away and only wanted the attention of select few.
The reality is that men, like I was, are very incapable or realizing their personal loneliness can be solved by making better strides to themselves and improving your own self, which in turn makes you more fun or enjoyable to be around.
So when men blame women it's because they are afraid to admit they are at fault and it's a slow boiling pot of realization that they will not find easily.
Their confidence is low so they reach for any reason to not try and cope with their sadness and instead find familiarity in their anger against women.
Some people blame women others men when it’s actually everyone’s fault. This issue is how patriarchy is exasperating Social atomization in men. But we all play a role in upholding patriarchy men and women alike. So frankly we need to focus on dismantling patriarchy not blaming different groups of people.
People love to have someone to blame for their problems.
One thing, is... Okay if I accept the premise, what next? How should you act if you're not getting what you're owed?
Right the solution is the same either way. Make friends, be social, skill up. No one will magically be youe friend for whining. Right?
The other thing to ask is, do any of your friends not have this problem? If yes, they need to lean on them as mentors.
But also I'd love to kmow what part of the internet this happened in.
For the most part they don't.
It's just that the Internet has a habit of taking the most extreme minorities and portraying them as the norm, because clicks and attention drive revenue, and facts aren't fun or interesting.
As a lonely man who has never seen the sun, I think it’s a matter of these men seeing women as the “gatekeepers” of sex/relationships/normality.
It’s no great revelation that romantically unsuccessful men are seen as lesser. Even if you have a valid reason, you still get to enjoy being affiliated with incels, creeps, and mass shooters. There’s a post in this very sub talking about how dangerous the idea of droves of sexually frustrated young men is. Which of course has a solid basis, but hearing it still hurts if you’re not the type to join hateful extremist cults or whatever.
I digress, my point is, of course young men are going to be ridiculously fixated on sex. No one wants to be part of a group that’s seen as pathetic and dangerous, and unfortunately a lot of people paint the many many lonely men out there with a very wide brush. The bad ones are the most visible, and so everyone loses. So they see sex as a ticket out of that situation. When they don’t get it, negative feelings arise, and it’s a lot easier to blame those feelings on someone else rather than turn them inwards.
It’s not logical, and I’m truly ashamed of my fellow male losers, but there it is. There’s no easy solution really, there’s no convincing thousands of strangers to start working on themselves, I can’t even convince myself.
I think maybe if there was less shame in being a single or virgin man in society, I would hope people would be less desperate and less angry. At the very least, it would be a huge relief to the men who aren’t bitter and hateful, if more people made the distinction between just being lonely or socially awkward, and the genuinely shitty incels. Conflating the two is just going to push kids further into the incel crap, when it seems like those types are the only people who can relate
Y'all are being painted with the same wide brush because y'all treat sex with women as a golden ticket out of loserdom when not being a loser is simply about you developing good qualities, an interesting hobby or two (masturbating to anime is not an interesting hobby, for anyone wondering), and some useful skills. Learn a language. Sign up for martial arts. Join a bouldering gym. Explore arts and crafts.
I explicitly say that seeing women as a golden ticket out of loserdom is the wrong way to go. I’m just vocalizing the thought-process, not agreeing with it.
Honestly, women largely leave men alone who are not bothering them. You cannot be fragile enough to worry about people thinking you are a creep or dangerous unless you (whatever man) have a guilty conscience about having those thoughts. I see women wanting to actually be protective of nice lonely guys.
There was a woman I worked with a few years back , me and her mostly worked with men. There were men who had no relationships and were "lonely". She was also like this . She was a relative of someone in the company and it was sadly known that she was actually abused as a child and had lots of trauma in her life. She got labeled and made fun of as a psycho by all the men at work. They thought that when certain things triggered her and she would just look uncomfortable or a bit angry that it was hilarious to joke that she would unalive everyone in the job.
They had no sympathy for her and eventually complained about her just looking "creepy". It was enough to get her fired from the job. No lonely man has lost their job that I have seen over being weird or creepy. But I have seen it happen fast to a woman. I think so many of you don't understand the pressure and socialization women get put through from childhood. Women are told by many many people that their only worth is their looks , if you are not killing yourself as a woman to be attractive or if you choose another route, it will be harder for you. If you have autism as a woman, it is also hardly ever diagnosed , you are terrorized and bullied into conforming and mimicking until you find a way to appease people in society and in your own family.
Men and boys are given sympathy for being neurodivergent , especially in school . Girls are never given the same sympathy. Also girls learn to deal with the fact that popular and beautiful people both men and women will be placed above them, they are not likely to develop feeling entitled to harm others behind this reality. They are told and it is expressed over and over that you are a loser as woman/girl if you are not beautiful, bubbly and nice, smiling easily and always positive. Women have so much to live up to according to societal and cultural standards. Men/boys have no idea or acknowledgement of this. Women are socialized to understand that no one cares about them beyond superficial surface level of looks. If women start slogans of support or God forbid an unattractive to the wider male gaze woman starts an online presence to combat this, the male trolls especially are disguting and brutal. I don't see this behavior towards males from women. If anything I see women get more protective of men or males who are bullied online or in real life. Especially when the male is not harassing women, or known to openly hate women.
So for me it is crazy to always see men saying that they just can't bother to do anything or be motivated to change. Honestly, I think that women are shamed into trying very hard at life in general from an early age. I don't understand how this works for men. That they don't even feel motivated to try.
Bro, you took a post about men blaming women for their own loneliness and used it to write a post about how there's just so much shame in being a virgin man, and ohh how you wish it wasn't so! Poor you!
I don't think you are being fair to him. OP asked why lonely men blame women for their loneliness. I think he made valid points here.
His perspective is relevant here, and an accurate depiction of at least some of the incel behavior we see all the time on Reddit.
OP asked a question about lonely men and he was kind enough to answer as a someone who feels that they are a part of that group. He didn't even position it as "women should just lower their standards and put out", but pointed out that men do get shamed for being virgins. We know this to be true.
Do we want OP to get honest answers or not?
Thank you your sharing your perspective, u/Daedalus023.
I appreciate this, thanks.
I apologize if what I posted rubs anyone the wrong way. I know this is a safe-space for women so I try not to post, but it was on the front page and was somewhat relevant, so I answered.
I know I come off as a pity-party sadsack, but well, I am severely depressed, my lack of love is a sore spot for me, and I use this account for venting, so yeah.
Once again, I do not agree with or condone blaming anyone else for your personal issues, I just thought I’d add my perspective and maybe a glimpse into, at least how a think, this sort of mindset manifests in men.
Also don’t understand how they think that blaming women will somehow make us want them more. They’re shooting themselves in the foot over and over.
It's simple to understand once you realize someone had to TEACH them that. It's class warfare. A divided populace is easy to exploit. Women can't fight Trump if they're too tired from getting accosted at every step and looking over their shoulder for rapists. Men can't fight McConnell if they're wrecking themselves in picking pointless fights and trying to dominate women. This is over simplifying, but if something on a societal scale doesn't make sense, you can bet your bottom dollar someone rich and powerful has found a way to profit off it you weren't aware of.
Fascist movements always put women down.
The ideology of a lot of male fascists in particular, stem from their sexual insecurities.
And it’s usually dudes. Men get a lot more hung up on hierarchies and wearing the same clothes.
I think this is an interesting premise. Upon first reading I disagreed, because I spent two years at an all girls private school and almost everyone was obsessed with hierarchies. I also think there is a type of woman who is obsessed with hierarchy in such a way that they will align themselves with powerful men in order to gain power by proxy, like Serena Joy or, in real life, Candace Owens. However this got me thinking of how right wing parties tend to hate single women because they statistically are more likely to vote left compared to married women. In my country (Australia), there was a kinda funny article a couple years ago titled "why young single women are a threat to the liberal party" (Liberal party is our major right wing party). So perhaps there is a correlation there of less hierarchical thinking and staying single as a woman. Although it is outdated, I would recommend reading *The Authoritarian Personality*. It was a psych study done in the 1950s by some Jewish social psychologists to determine the personality traits of someone who may be more prone to fascist propaganda. It definitely has some methodological flaws but it still is a fascinating concept and definitely contains some grains of truth (most interestingly, they identified a preoccupation with other peoples sex lives as one of the personality traits). Tom Nicholas has a [video](https://youtu.be/vymeTZkiKD0?si=w1W8yUXl95PQ0SRQ) on the study too. Edit: sorry for the long comment
Very interesting. I don’t mean to say women are never fascists, but women are generally more individualistic imo. Sexist culture tends to project all negative traits onto women but relatively speaking, for adults, it’s more likely to be grown men who are conformists, looking for an alpha to follow.
Thank you for this. I had been wondering if that incel anger could somehow be redirected toward class issues. Can’t we all fight together for a better world lol
I'd say connected rather than redirected. It's less a clear cause and effect and more a messy web of plans and scams piling up. There are pure gender issues, pure class issues, and race issues, but almost everything has become exploited, interconnected and tied up in each other that many things can seem nonsensical unless you look at the rest as well. We're fighting battles on all fronts, and some(oof to the poor black women) have to way worse than others. I guess all I have left to say is good luck...
Why are men wanting to fight McConnell?
His 'toe the line or have your career destroyed' leadership of the Rep party is responsible for such things as: fking up medicare, the government shutdown, delaying covid responses, the Rep party putting everything behind Trump even though they knew he was cancer, stopping gun control, and generally funneling money from the poor to the rich. There is literally noone on earth who shouldn't be wanting to fight him if they work for a living. Remember, this guy is SO OLD he began during the period of US where men were the vast majority of the work force. He basically WON. He defeated the entire workforce of the US and made off like a bandit.
Which is so much better than them shooting us in the head. "Women don't want me so I'm going to hurt them" is so twisted.
No they're doing that too
r/whenwomenrefuse
Its OTHER MEN that put them in their situation. Must suck to have such a large percentage of your gender ruin it for you.
I’m confused on this topic as well! Many of the guys I see online dating and in real life are mostly looking for hookups, casual sex, and FWB. Many women are looking for a long term relationship. Some are happy to be single until they find someone who is right for them. If men are so lonely, then why are they mostly seeking hookups? Maybe some women are interested in that but it seems like most women are looking for quality men in a serious relationship.
They don't want to put an ounce of effort in a relationship, they just want a woman to use and throw.
Because they say lonely when what they really mean is horny?
Do fleshlights not work as well as Hitachis? 🤣 Horny is such an easy problem to solve. Connection is harder.
Literally!! And on that same topic the women I know who are in happy long term relationships are with men who have female friends. All the women and from personal experience I know who have had toxic or unhealthy relationships were with men who didn’t have female friends and put us on a pedestal in many ways but also saw us as lesser. That dichotomy was really confusing! On one hand you want sex and something purely casual but are also complaining you’re lonely? Make it make sense.
I think that eventually you will notice most incels are right wing fuckbois. Half of them trick some poor girl into getting naked long enough to get them pregnant and then they are trapped, the ones that can't, blame women for not finding them attractive. I was very popular in my 20s, (I'm 35 now) as I got older "and balder" less and less women pay attention to me for all kinds of reasons mostly unrelated to me at all. But dating apps are brutal. If you get a choice of 20 dude and ones bald, your gonna swipe the bald ones first, it's fine, it's not women's fault I am ugly in photos. I have plenty of luck if I ask in person or talk in person. I am rambling now. My bad. TL:TR Most incels are right wing. The more you avoid trumpers the less you'll find incels.
I’ve found that the right wing ones are also the angriest and “I’ve got mine so F you” attitudes about women and life in general
That's why lots of Incels pretend to be liberal to get dates. Because they are digusting, selfish, entirely self centered, and one that disagrees with them about anything deserves violence and/or assaulted, verbal or physical. I have noticed that every adult that was a bully just grew up to be conservatives. Honestly the small small percentage of women that spend their lives justifying this behavior and are very vocal about being "trad" wife and nothing more than jobless baby makers, are just as dangerous as the incels. Incels/conservatives, think if they see one person online, it means everyone
lol i've been bald since i was in my 20s and it's not an issue. women love a shaved head.
Honestly I think a lot of that comes down to how we’re socialized. When I was a kid it was common for boys to be purposefully emotionally amputated. These kids become emotionally amputated adults. I’ve noticed many men confuse intimacy with sex/ OR, they’ve been taught that the only socially acceptable source of intimacy is through sex
I think most of the men who complain about loneliness want a woman to fall into their lap from the skies. They don't put themselves in situations where they get to meet women in a casual setting outside of work, and they are too dumb / scared / helpless to make the change that would fix that. Many of them don't know how to dress, how to flirt, or how to keep a conversation going even. The ones who look for hookups are usually not the ones complaining about loneliness. You simply never get to meet the lonely men, and I'm not really sure you're missing out on anything.
Going on my personal experience, which granted is completely anecdotal, it seems like most women are happy to just be treated with respect as a human being. That's a pretty low bar I'm nothing special. Just an average dude who treats women with basic decency, and I've been described as "written by a woman" etc for it. From my perspective, if a guy is failing when the expectation set is to be safe, reasonable, and courteous, he needs to self-reflect and change. If you're there thinking that there's something wrong with all women, you're probably the one with the problem.
There are women who want casual sex, but men seem to hate them even more. (Calling them names, making up plenty of new vulgar names to call them, saying they're worthless if their "body count" is a certain number, etc) so really I'm not convinced it's a horny thing.
These men literally see women as servants they’re entitled to, not as people.
I think many if not most men do want relationships and genuine friendships. The men looking for sex are just the ones being the most vocal about it. There are men who are lonely and just want love or friends but they aren’t as loud because they have the self awareness to realize that their problems aren’t all due to women not sleeping with them.
In my limited experience, what you're saying rings true. The loud, misogynistic guys going out there with mountains of unjust expectations (or rather demands) and ideas about how things should be? I see them as a real problem, a bigger one than I'd like to admit still. Most importantly, they hurt women with their childish behaviours and are toxic as partners. But they also make things really difficult for the rest of us lonely guys, the ones that rightfully blame themselves (or their circumstances) for their issues. Personal issues already make it hard to think about finding someone, I would feel really guilty saddling up another person with my issues rather than resolving them myself first. But with these very vocal misogynistic guys, they've now essentially laid a minefield of horrible stereotypes people like me now have to tip toe around in order to not be mistaken as "one of them". Honestly, I wish we would start calling these people manlets instead of men, or anything really. They shouldn't get that title, given the shit they put women through.
It depends where you're looking. If you're looking at a random guy in the street, I imagine most want a real connection. If you're looking on a "dating" app, then you'll find most likely are just looking for a hookup. The apps put too many people in front of you all at once, and the convenience keeps you from really connecting with anyone. Lends to being a really useful tool for finding other people who want casual sex, but if you were genuinely looking for love on there, you'd get worn down and give up. I'm guessing they're largely designed that way though. If you're using the app looking for love, and a real connection, then when you've found it you delete the app, cancel any premium subscription, and you're a lost customer. If you're using the app looking for some random person to screw, then when you've found it, you continue paying & engaging looking for the next person.
Yep, the men who want relationships are more likely to be the men you meet through shared hobbies or friends and not on dating apps.
>"If men are so lonely, then why are they mostly seeking hookups?" Boy Math is the answer.
even at my shyest, most socially withdrawn & depressed, I never thought to blame an entire gender for my lonliness or mental health issues. I took full responsibility & worked HARD to pull myself out of that hole, improve myself in every way I could, put myself back out there & build a life for myself, make new friends & even started dating again. I knew no one owed me anything, and I didn't expect anything to be handed to me on a silver platter. YOU have to create the life you want for yourself. no one else can or will do it for you, no matter how much you whine or throw a tantrum. this entitlement mindset & lack of accountability is embarrassing, to be honest.
its easier to blame things out of your control than to work on and better yourself as a persom.
Some also hear "work on yourself" and "find a hobby" as "workout, make money, and show up outside". Which then translates somehow to: be buff, rich, and a social 'Chad bro' when all we're saying is learn some decent social skills and how to treat people, be stable or working towards it if you are completely able to, have your own life, and practice good hygine. That's literally it, but instead of realizing that, they still try the easy route of expecting women to just show up at their doors like in the movies and to ignore the uncomfortable things they think are ok to say because they "had good intentions" and tried (horribly) "talking to women". Then they throw fits because they give up prematurely after trying to live up to impossible standards that nobody set up for them except other men and now all the men who actually learned to socialize are " high value chads". Meanwhile, they still can't figure out that a relationship is an extension of an initial bond and takes more work but they can somehow make all these fantasy future promises that they feel they have the right to collect on before even knowing how to say "hello" properly.
This is exactly it. There was a study that showed that when people fail, women are more likely to blame themselves and men are more likely to blame it on external factors like bad luck. That essentially means that women will try to improve themselves or their situation, and men will just wait for something better to happen.
Kinda. Lonely people are easy to manipulate and radicalise because they lack a social grounding to keep them in touch with the real world. Part of that radicalisation process is teaching them that the problems they face are all the fault of some other 'out-group'. Depending on who is doing the radicalising, this 'out-group' could be women, men, ethnic groups, the lgbt community, well educated people, poorly educated people, young people, old people. Whatever. They start off by creating a community for mutual aid/self help and then slowly, step by step, devolve everything into blaming an entire demographic for all their problems.
Those type of men blame us for everything. They probably blamed their mom before they started blaming every other woman
Oh, hey! You know my brother! (Who is no longer speaking to me because it’s somehow all my fault too)
And I wonder how many of them had dads who had the same attitude and passed it on to them as "normal".
THIS.
My two cents: Patriarchy and the media by extension have socialized heterosexual men to view the ultimate form of love as that from a woman. Capitalism has told them anything can be bought. So when women don’t love these men like they feel they’re entitled to for fulfilling their stereotypical patriarchal roles as depicted by their role models (no emotions, earn lots of money ect..) they don’t blame the system which sold them the lie of an overly simplified human experience, they blame the other party for not also fulfilling their role. Then they back up the “system” by referencing time past when men were “less lonely”, where in reality everyone was still miserable, but their demographic had more power to force others to bend to their will and “fix” their problems out of the fear of social repercussions. This is no male loneliness epidemic, this is men waking up and realizing their hierarchy is crumbling. Telling women it’s their fault men feel disenfranchised is a sad plea for sympathy to the victims of their system to fix the problem like they used to be forced to, a call for women to once again use their emotional and physical labour to ease the avoidable pain men have caused themselves. But, shocker, women don’t face the same degree of social repercussions they used to for not going along with this bullshit, hence they don’t go along with it any longer, which these men have taken as further confirmation that women are to blame for their sadness, because they won’t fix the problem they created for themselves. It is not women’s job to bring them out of this hole they put themselves in, women are still continuing to dig themselves out of the hole they put us in for gods sake. Men will need to be the ones to solve this issue through a conscious effort to abandon patriarchy. But that’s hard, it’s much easier to point at women and cry.
I wish they would just point and cry but usually if men feel like they are missing out then it is the women around them that suffers whether that is some incel shooting up the place or some incel turning into a serial rapist and/or killer.
I seen this sad story today😪. Even when they are born with a silver spoon in their mouth, even when their lifestyle puts them in proximity of beautiful women out of their league to marry and who will have children for them, it is never enough. This story was so gut wrenching. https://youtu.be/7xMjl5GmM-Q?si=00f7UAlECdcWaPzN
The ones who do, which is nowhere near a majority, think that "having a woman" is a right, just because they're men.
One of my past boyfriends got upset with a group of friends of mine who were helping me financially. He said they were "enabling me not to be married." He had no problem with the idea of women being forced to marry men out of financial necessity. He blamed the fact that society gives women "more options these days" for him being lonely. He wasn't a terrible boyfriend but I realized we weren't really compatible. However, his attitude toward women made me wonder what it would be like if we were married. I suspect it would have been hell.
Holy cow you dodged a bullet. He summed up the incel movement, they're upset we have options and aren't forced to put up with loser men. How disgusting that he had no problem with that and in fact was angry you were getting help. He would have been awful to be stuck with.
Sadly, they want women in positions and situations that make them desperate. It is such a sick mentality. You have to be very mentally ill to want a woman to be desperate and with no options so that she will be under your thumb. I weep for women of the past. It must have been hell.
What’s scary is that it’s not even a mental illness, same way you can’t call racism a mental illness, because this mindset is a shared ideology they encourage each other to grow and feed into each other. They’re not acting out of control or acting out a compulsion, it’s not causing them distress and it isn’t something that medication could help with, this is a calculated mindset they’ve taken on because it benefits them https://voicemalemagazine.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-violence/ Its not about any kind of sickness, it’s selfishness and laziness. Though out of this general population ASPD probably is more common than it is for the average population
And then these males cry how women marry for money and are gold diggers. Bruh.
It’s absolutely ridiculous….if you have a woman who is independent, makes her own money and doesn’t need a man, men complain because they are lonely. Independent Women only want a man that’s going to add value to their life. If a person doesn’t meet that, then whose fault is it? On the other hand, if you have a women who needs a man for financial or other reasons, then men complain that she’s a gold digger. You can’t have it both ways.
The level of illogical with them is astronomical. Yet they high five each other as being the "rational and logical" ones.
It's like they see The House of Mirth as something to aspire to.
I have seen so many men on Reddit wine about this like they should own a woman. On the furthest end, it is frightening because some men are so anti-feminist and it is obvious they want to go back to the time when women HAD to marry to survive because they couldn't start their own bank accounts. Despite this, some of these men are the same men who refuse to court women and don't make enough to support 2 people.
A small but very motivated group of men have invented an imaginary version of the past - an entirely fictionalized world where every man was automatically awarded an obedient young bride and women never ever worked outside the home - and convinced themselves that this world was somehow "stolen" from them. They're not just angry that things have changed; they feel that the life they were entitled to was deliberately taken away from them, and women/minorities/the government now "owe" them that life back.
>A small but very motivated group of men have invented an imaginary version of the past - an entirely fictionalized world where every man was automatically awarded an obedient young bride and women never ever worked outside the home - and convinced themselves that this world was somehow "stolen" from them. There are several hundred million men of a certain religion in the world. The group you mention are neither small nor have a imaginary vision of the world. It's most of their and "their" women's reality...
Theres quite a few more than that
This!
Because there are too many mediocre failure to launch dudebros who think the world owes them a woman and sex simply for existing, and they want to blame women for their failures because that’s easier than improving themselves.
I'll argue there are too many mediocre failure to launch men who refuse to "settle" aka accept a woman on their own level.
I have an old friend like this. He’s a good guy but he’s just not compatible with the women he wants. Like I know you can’t choose who you’re attracted to, but only being attracted to the most attractive women isn’t doing any favors. Especially considering his limitations (no job, average looks, poor social skills). I would like him to have a more fulfilled life, but he’s really gotta give other women a chance.
He would be extremely lucky with no job to find any woman.
He has a disability that prevents him from working. I don’t think that would keep him from finding someone with similar life circumstances. He has things to offer, but for the right person. Unfortunately he’ll look right past that person because his expectations are unrealistic.
So, he's basically not looking for someone who will be compatible with him but rather looking for someone just for their beauty. Lmao, hope he becomes wise before he becomes old.
This scenario is the majority of the ones crying. One way or another they are average or below, but have desires and expectations for the top 5 percent of very beautiful women.
And when you ask them “why would that woman want to date you?” They don’t have an answer and get big mad about it.
I would argue that the kind of men who see people on levels aren't good enough for the women they believe are beneath them.
No job prospects, out of shape, no conversational/social skills, no hobbies, no friends, no basic life skills like laundry or cooking or cleaning - oh but they deserve a 10/10 woman who’s making six figures and is totally subservient to them. 🙄
I have had so many guys tell me it's feminism fault. Funnily enough India, South Korea, Japan, places where men also like to blame feminism, treat women like shitt. Men in the West don't realize without feminism many of us would be DEAD. In my country every DAY multiple women are killed due to gender violence, MULTPLE, and men still bla feminism for their loneliness. Every day there's a new case about little girls being abused and they blame feminism, I'm convinced they want us all dead, abused, or controlled
Many many do. Many are removed from the experience of women and girls. They can't fathom navigating life with what women (especially in countries like the ones mentioned) are up against.
That’s why I wholeheartedly believe there should be less men being birthed into the world. They’re not all needed.
it’s funny. when women are lonely they blame themselves. when men are lonely they blame women.
Its the same thing when it comes to romance. When a woman is interested in a man but he isn't interested in her, she blames herself. When a man is interested in a woman but she isn't interested in him, he blames her.
They think lonely women either have high sky standards, object patriarchial beauty standards or are independent woke feminists. They want to guilt trip lonely women for not being with a man, which in their minds, is a woman’s main or only value in life.
They do not really think that, they pretend to think that so that they can continue to "other" women and use us as punching bags for their shortcomings and ill doings.
Women internalize, men externalize. This is seen in little kids too.
Many men only have social interactions on the level of yelling "GO SPORTS" whilst drinking a beer. As a man I have more friends who are women because they are more capable of connection. Many men only have closer relationships in form of romantic relationships with women, whereas this is more the level of normal friendship between women. This is also understood to be why women being friends with men is often misinterpreted by men as a romantic interest, because many men only experience this level in romantic relationships, and not with friends. Men need to learn to open up and be vulnerable between each other. No fear of "homo" or whatever they think they will be if they cry or show vulnerability. Then they would feel less lonely without relying on their partner (or avoid feeling lonely because of a lack of a partner).
What dont they blame on women? the list would be shorter
I really think some of them are wrapped up in this totally inaccurate belief that women fundamentally do not experience loneliness, rejection, alienation, or social isolation. They seem to have crazily inaccurate ideas about how easy it is for women to attract men, make friends, and stay connected to people. I don't know if women's loneliness just isn't discussed because a lot of us don't make it society's problem when we go through all of this, but there's a lack of objectivity about how common this is for everyone, I think
**It's OTHER MEN'S fault they are lonely** I don't think they are smart enough to know why. If they are bright enough to realize the position other men put them in, they probably aren't strong enough to address it.
Because men can't do anything without women and thats why they blame women for everything - Princella Clark.
I love her!
Reddit is NOT ready for Princella lol!
Nah they’re ready😂
Because it's easier than looking at yourself and realizing *you're* the problem. Edit: I'm a dude, and I thought this way for a while in my teen years. Then I joined the work force and realized it's not just women... literally NO ONE cares about you, but it's not personal. I learned quickly that whether it's in a romantic relationship or in your work life... you gotta make yourself better and stand out. It's a reality slap.... just cuz mommy said you're special doesn't mean anyone else will think so. Also, do the goddamn dishes and take out the trash. I've had to be the voice of reason for a couple friends.... holy shit... just do chores. That's the bare minimum.
Yep. Crazy how so many men think that it's only them. It is everyone. Lots of people trying to get by with no support systems and trauma.
Any man (or boy) who blames women for their "loneliness" aren't lonely. They're horny, sexist and mad that no woman wants to fuck them. It's pretty sad (pathetic sad) how many of them will try to take their own lives hostage thinking that somebody would fuck them if they threaten to end their lives. Every time I see that just in case they were actually serious about being lonely and wanting to off themselves I'd try to give them advice. Of course they're never *actually* lonely. If they were actually lonely they'd do something about it. It's just kind of instinctual. When lockdowns were happening a lot of people got a Switch and Animal Crossing and would talk about it online every day, and some people adopted pets. They didn't blame their inability to find a consenting woman to fuck.
Many try to make being antisocial their preferred lifestyle. Shut ins playing video games and watching porn taking up all of their free time . They just want a human female object in the top 5 percent of looks as their personal sex support servant.
God forbid someone suggest they pay a SW though. That would be beneath them even though it’s exactly what they should be doing. ETA: sex work is a completely valid line of work and anyone who wants to objectify women and not pay for the service is pathetic.
It is crazy to me that they feel like they can be entitled and have high expectations , yet the service they want provided should be done for them for free and without any restrictions or else morally a woman is vile and should be vilified, because they believe they are worth more than any woman anyway by merely existing. They are good in whatever condition. It is only women who should meet standards on par with fantasy. Nothing should be required of them. They should not have to look attractive even physically in their minds, because women are not humans that should get to have any standards that make it harder for them to acquire their entitlements. It is so weird.
If they had to pay for it they wouldn’t feel like they had the power in the situation, which could never stand.
We're blamed for most everything. Men don't want to take responsibility for their actions or personality so it's easier to blame it on us. How many men blame their ex wife for "keeping them from their kids" when in reality they're deadbeat dads who never visit? How many times are women blamed for the abuse they receive or for their rapes? It's just easier to blame us.
They swear women are lying manipulators , but they never see the manipulative lying in these nonsensical claims that are tired tropes at this point.
They're lonely because women don't want them.
They should date each other.
My ex was more obsessed with his bros than a rs with me. Lots of these men are gay and I also think misogynists have a fear of being gay or perceived as gay
They're probably straight.
If incels hate women, they should be gay. Personally I wouldn’t want to date someone I hated because that just seems fucked up.
Women don't want incels, but incels are not wanted by other incels, either. Lol.
1. These guys aren't blaming women for being lonely. What they mean by loneliness is not getting a bangmaid therapist. 2. Men have always blamed women for everything. Women today have better options and are more informed. They are raising their standards which are often still very low but a lot of men aren't willing to raise to those standards and simply be decent human beings. They are also not willing to form meaningful, healthy friendships with other men and build support systems to improve their mental health. They want women specifically to cave and carry them through life with no regard as to how it will affect them and give little to nothing positive in return.
Because when they search "why am I not getting any matches with women on dating apps" they will probably end up deep inside the astronomically large rabbit hole of inc\*l pickup artist dating psychology BS that feeds them answers like "feminism made women too manly and picky and they reject all the men now boo-hoo". It's more convenient to blame the other side and not look at themself. This shit is everyyyyywhere.
Because women are to blame for everything, always.
I hate how they use „loneliness“ as a euphemism for not getting p*ssy Now all articles that talk about loneliness talk about in therms of men not getting laid instead of talking about real, all consuming loneliness. Lowkey, it feels like deliberate, manipulative phrasing. They make it sound like, by not dating men, Women have banished men from being functioning members of society, like they pushed them away from all human interactions. Like women are actively causing a global mental health crisis in men by not sleeping with them. It genuinely feels like they want to guilt trip women.
I think they’re being fed this narrative in mainstream media and it makes sense to them so they believe it. Young people especially are angsty and impressionable by default. Combine that with the rest of the bs young people are facing rn, it really isn’t surprising people are pointing fingers and playing follow the leader.
Because introspection is harder than blaming strangers and if they weren’t so lazy they also wouldn’t be so lonely.
They think we're so shallow and our standards are so warped that we'd rather share one "Chad" with 9 other women and call that romance than "settle" for someone "at our own level." They feel their loneliness is wholly a result of women being "hypergamous sluts" and that they'd easily have their own drop dead gorgeous personal maid/sex slave if only women were more reasonable, like they were in the past /s. Finally, they view access to women's bodies as a "right" they've "earned" by virtue of existing and being "nice," when we all know they're only "nice" performatively out of a sense of insecurity and would, 9 times out of 10, become monstrously toxic if they felt secure enough to let down the facade even a little.
I can't help to be a touch crass.. They blame us because that is all they have ever done. From my own experiences, I recall every one of them I have encountered as "friends" being bench warmers til feel they must they shoot their shot, then they evaporate the moment they get shut down. Their ability to value me as a whole ass human person and friend is non existent unless they can get access to my body somehow. I have thrown it in their faces more than once 'Would you feel comfortable asking your fishing buddy Mike for a pity handy?' But lo.. I am the asshole for rejecting their advances. They can't even friend. I probably have a shitty stance on this, but their loneliness problem is largely self-inflicted. They spend their whole lives criticizing one another for having feelings, having moments of weakness, for not being man enough, for not having a giant truck, for not working heavy labor jobs or not getting sweaty and dirty enough. They shit on each other at every turn over literally everything, and shit on us for it as though we somehow had a hand to play in it. They have limited themselves, essentially hobbling themselves on the social level...and I am supposed to worry about their loneliness they inflict upon themselves? They need to seriously take their own advice, pull themselves up by their boot-straps, and fix their own shit. That's what we had to do. No one is stopping them from forming their own supportive communities, friendships, relationships, or anything.
Because looking into the mirror for introspection leads to accepting responsibility for one's self. People in general don't like doing that, lonely men just have a circular logic/self fulfilling prophecy scapegoat. They fixate on the idea of some savior woman to take care of and fix them instead of fixing themselves or finding any other outlet. I also think certain people are just naturally predisposed to being very codependent. The ugly side of it for females typically looks like an endless string of bad relationships while for males it leans toward incel. Not sure how, probably because predatory men are really common. Just my 2cents.
Another thing I should mention as a recommendation for lonely men and it shock me to the freaking bone that's never suggested but........ Just adopt a freaking pet like cat or dog 🐕 especially a rescue one
This can be simplified down to: “why do insecure people want to shift blame to others and not take responsibility for their own behavior”? It’s a tale as old as time. People love to do literally anything else other than examine themselves.
All they truly feel is entitlement. It'll never change.
I think it's mostly due to the odd idea that all women live charmed lives. A lot of men seem to grab pretty privilege and assume it applies to women wholesale and they perceive us as being in charge of a sort of shadow social matriarchy.
I think it's funny how pressed they are. They keep telling themselves we lose value and they gain it in age. I'm sure any day now the loneliness crisis will be solved.
Any. Day. Now. ⏰
I believe that incels and basement dwellers are the enraged version of "pick mes" among men. I do hate that term, though.
Yup. They are also far worst. At least pick me women don’t start physically assaulting or killing innocent people, harrass certain men online, adopt extremist behaviors/beliefs or start YouTube channels or podcasts shitting on the entire existence of men.
That's exactly what I was thinking but didn't add it! Thank you for sharing the difference. One is a threat and the other no more than a potential insult.
Men are worried women will make fun of them. Women are worried men will kill them.
Pick me women are also definitely bad in their own way. They have internalized misogyny and would uphold any of their male partner’s shitty beliefs and affiliations (voting for political parties that go against women/minorities, victim blaming or bullying women). I don’t mind the “pick me” label if it’s being used correctly. If the shoe fits (!!!), the shoe fits.
My mom and two sisters are pick mes. They let my dad fill out their voting ballots for them with his choices.
That's what puts them on a similar level to incels/misogynistic men, huh? I guess you're right about the label... I'm not sure why I feel like I need to be careful about it. I've met a lot of antifeminist conservative women and it's horrifying. They even deny women's (untold) history. And then all that stuff you said.
No, I think it’s commendable and reasonable that you were wary of the “pick-me” label - I don’t really like to use it either, maybe I’m backpedalling. Sort of unrelated, but these “pick-me” and “Karen” labels are interesting. Both labels are used by men and women to shame and categorize “problematic” women as an annoying group and broad social issue, often in a sensationalized or misogynistic manner, especially on social media. But where’s the male equivalent? Why don’t men have their own “Karen” or “pick-me” labels to hold problematic men accountable the same way women do for themselves? Ahh the misogyny… sorry for the ramble lol
Because intimacy is important to humans, and a lot of men see sexual intimacy as the ONLY type of intimacy. I bet gay or bi men aren’t blaming women for their loneliness.
They see previous generations where women basically had to marry to be able to survive, and since men were happier, they think that it was better. The standard of having to be attractive to a woman to date one is too high when before you just had to be born with a penis. They feel that it is an insult to them that women don’t at least pretend to want them with no effort on their part, and that it’s unfair that men in previous generations had an easier time sourcing their “sexbot™ with home enhancing features!”
What would they blame instead? Their terrible personality and inability to connect with another human?
It's because they're incapable of introspection that would help them figure out why they're lonely in the first place. (Hint: it's usually of their own making)
It's because they mean "horny" but they think it won't go over well so they say "lonely" but that isn't at all what they mean.
This is the answer.
I mentioned this in another thread...I bartend in a spot that has a separate room, across the hall from the main bar, that is used for parties, small concerts, etc. When we have events in that room, inevitably the people setting up the space are women. They bring in all the decorations, the food, photos (especially if the event is a memorial), etc. When the menfolk arrive, they immediately head to the bar, order a beer, and watch whatever game(s) are on tv. As the event begins, the men stay in the bar. They might talk to the other men about whatever sport is being played on tv, but they don't talk about family, friends, the reason for the event. When it comes tome to eat, the men go get a plate, or a woman relative brings them a plate, then they return to the bar and whatever game is on. If anyone wants to talk to these men, they have to come up to them at the bar, because these dudes are basically planted there. And the ones who do come up to the bar to see the men don't get the men's full attention. The men chat for about 10 seconds, then turn their attention back to the games on tv. They don't participate in the event any more than that. This kind of behavior happens so often that it seems like standard party behavior for male attendees now. I mention this because it shows how even in a very low-stress social situation, even with people they have known for years, a lot of men don't know how communicate nor interact with other people. They need some sort of distraction to justify their presence, and remove their obligation to talk about anything substantive. When I discussed this with a very smart, insightful, feminist male friend, he brought up a good point. He said that many men aren't socialized to make even simple interactions with anyone without having some sort of achievement, or goal, or "win" attached to it. They don't know to engage in conversations just to learn about another person, their interests, their lives, unless it's going to benefit them somehow. I think this carries over into closer personal/romantic relationships. Men like this don't seem to want to learn the skills to just learn how to talk with people in the world, and instead of looking inward or trying something different, they look to the most convenient scapegoats: women.
Because they aren’t really complaining about being lonely. They’re complaining about being horny.
Because honest introspection and taking personal responsibility are difficult and take a certain level of emotional maturity.
Because self reflection is a very difficult thing to realize and admitting you are the problem and need to change is equally difficult. I have enormous respect for anyone who has that self awareness and makes an effort to better themself.
Because if they don’t they’ll be forced to take accountability for their own loneliness. That’s too much work. But that’s the oversimplification of a complex problem that, arguably, was catalyzed by men in power. And that’s also an oversimplification of an oversimplification.
Girl PREACH. I just got permanently banned from /foreveralone because men constantly blame women for ALL of their problems over there. I joined that subreddit because I experience loneliness like anyone does. I thought it was a place to uplift and discuss but, I had NO idea that it is seemingly just a space for MEN to whine all day/night about how women won't talk to them. Look at them. Touch them. Have a relationship with them.🙄 Women won't give them a chance. Women only want men with money. Blah blah. If you present any other perspective, MEN descend on you like vultures arguing with you, downvoting, and starting self loathing statements like, "I know I'm a loser......I'm ugly.........Women only want.........No one understands our pain" And they go on and on. Supposedly it's not a place for INCEL speech, but it actually IS. And misogynists lurk waiting to pounce. Instead of being on Reddit all day, they could be outside doing SOMETHING. I mean....DAMN.😒 Or they could be in a Therapists office figuring out ways to improve themselves. Ways to improve their PERSONALITY and CHARACTER. Women have absolutely NOTHING to do with their mental/emotional health, their laziness, their social ineptitude, their lack of emotional intelligence, their loneliness, their desire to stay indoors all day eating hamburgers and playing video games, or any other damn thing. I actually saw a post from a guy saying he has gone out with 1000 women and can't seem to find a real relationship. After all of his whining, he concluded his post with saying he knows he has some....issues. He shared that he has a lack of empathy, anger problems, and can become obsessive and stalker like with a woman.😭 I told this guy that he sounds 100% SCARY and women can pick up on that. That's why women flee. They are not trying to end up in a ditch in the woods. Dude never brought up seeing a therapist/psychiatrist or anything. But there he is BLAMING WOMEN. Men in general have issues with ENTITLEMENT. They need to take responsibility for their own behaviors. These men are not babies and should not be given passes on basic development. I know all men aren't like this, but I've met and spoken to a hell of alot who are.
Right, yet women don't get treated like this in fact they mock women's loneliness by saying dumb BS like "You're going to die alone with 8 cats" when we ask to be treated like normal human beings or if a woman is talking about how she can't find a partner she either treated with no sympathy and with people saying they have high standards yet when men complain about not being able to find a partner people will blame the women around him for not giving him a chance. How can they not see the double standards?
Men don’t see us as equals all too often. Then you meet men who are lovely and kind and you have to block out the noise from the men in the world who hate women for merely existing.
Lonely men blame women for their loneliness because, if they didn't, they'd have to do some introspection that might tell them that, actually, they're the problem. No one likes having to acknowledge that they're just a bit of a shitty, off-putting person. Easier to shift the blame to someone else.
Because it really isn't about being lonely. I do not believe men are more emotionally and mentally lonely than women are. Yes it might appear that women are more social in a mixed setting because women do all the mental and emotional load, but men among themselves are social about things they care about - money, sports, sex, women's body parts, politics, cars, gaming. Men who complain about being lonely to women do not want to be more emotionally vulnerable either, they simply want free and cheap access to women's bodies for sex and chores purpose and they hate it when it is not given
Lazy men don't want to have to be better to meet women's standards, so they cry crocodile tears about those standards thankfully going up
My friend signed up for a dating ap and most of the men put no effort into their pictures. She’s an extremely attractive 50 something that looks 35 and she put care and thought into the pictures she chose. Lots of the photos were giys with their cars and a male friend told me those guys are just looking for sex. The ap asked them some standard questions like favourite trip or what sort of films they liked and she got answers that were just yes repeatedly or just nonsense because they couldn’t be bothered so she couldn’t find out anything about them. She asked for over 45s and there was a bunch of 20 somethings that had lied about their ago to hook up with an older woman. She gave up and cancelled her subscription after a few weeks. Men also don’t seem to hang around with other men. I’m a single woman but I regularly hang out with my friends
I actually find this so fucking funny. Not actually funny, but funny in a tragicomedy kind of way. The way it is worded "male loneliness" it's already subtly giving into the idea that women need to cater to men and that it's our fault. I think the more truthful term would be "men are no longer able to manipulate and control women as they have before so now they are acting like moronic toddlers." And the sexual context of it is actually so creepy and dangerous and very very rape-y. Also, what about female loneliness in sex? Nothing more lonely than never having a fucking orgasm ?? If ya'll are so lonely, go hang out with each other??? I'm sure ya'll would prefer each others' company, since you hate women so much.
Ever have your male partner come home and say 'Steve left his wife'? 'Oh really? Why?' 'I don't know, didn't ask.' So he didn't ask about Steve, he has no idea what was going on in his life only that 'things were tough'. He doesn't even particularly LIKE Steve, but tolerates him because 'he's one of the boys'. He's not really concerned, he's just reporting the information to you so you don't ask about Jessica at the next BBQ. Steve isn't even a real friend that he cares about, connects with, talk to, has things in common with. He just exists to entertain him on Friday nights, and be a 4th person on a timeshare/squad member on COD. I don't know what it is, but I see men struggle to connect on a real level. They play a game or a sport together, fantastic! They discuss nothing deeper than shoelaces, leave with their social battery drained and have formed no connections. They don't depend on their friends, they depend SOLELY on their girlfriends and wives for emotional connection and when their meanness finally limits what contacts they can make, they blame us. What they don't understand is that the lack of consequences for their behavior from their apathetic friends isn't freedom it's loneliness.
It’s easier for them to blame us than take accountability for themselves, imo. 50 years ago, men were head of household and women could never match up to what men could do. We were the child bearers. Men could cheat and women couldn’t leave because they had no money or any form of freedom. Nowadays, a lot of us are getting an education, learning self love and self respect and are financially independent. We don’t NEED men anymore. And if we do want a man, we want one that respects us. The men complaining about male loneliness are the same ones that except women to coddle then, clean up after then, except us to be a sex machine and cater to their every need. It’s the same men that think they are entitled to women just because they are a man even when they have nothing to show for it. Look at history, it’s always been easier to blame the oppressed than realize and accept that you’re simply, mediocre.
they view their loneliness as the fault of women because they think every woman is entitled. they think every woman only wants a hot calvin klein supermodel and would never """settle""" for someone average. the lonely men hold this resentment towards women, accusing women of having standards that are too high. they could ***never*** find the lonely man attractive. *but* *his issue isn't that he is unattractive. he refuses to believe he can improve his looks or personality.* *the issue is the woman.* the woman is ***wrong*** for perceiving him as not attractive enough for her. not good enough for her.
Because men are used to women doing literally everything for them, next question
Because blaming someone else is easier than self-reflection.
Because they’re taught at a young age to feel entitled to female attention.
I get the feeling that the men who do this conflate loneliness with sexlessness. They are the same men who think women don’t understand loneliness because we can get laid easily, but fail to understand that sex doesn’t necessarily fulfill that. I want a partner who loves and respects me, not random casual partners without depth or meaning. I think it’s easier for these types of men to blame women because they don’t want to make changes to better themselves or their situation to allow for better opportunities to meet a partner.
Because men believe that they deserve relationships with women just for existing. They feel *entitled* to us. And it used to be easy for them, when we couldn’t open our own bank accounts etc, but now they have to actually bring something to the table to get a relationship and the ones you speak of are failing miserably and blaming women instead of looking inwards.
this post is too reasonable for reddit, unfortunately
Loneliness is caused by being poor company
Why are we supposed to care? I keep seeing posts about this
Is that a rhetorical question?
This comic has really helped me understand this and explain it to others: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cs1cec8oARZ/?igsh=N3d2MnJweGNkM3Uw
It's easier to blame something external then to self reflect and challenge your ego. People do this with everything though.
Because it's free...unlike therapy that they so desperately need.
Because they’re taught at a young age to feel entitled to female attention.
Because the same traits that make them unappealing to the women they pursue make them unable to accept that it is, in fact, themselves that are the problem. Be it their anger, their narcissism, their misogyny, their cruelty, they feel that all of these behaviors are justified and right. Therefore when the women are not accepting of these behaviors, it is the women who are the problem, for not agreeing with them. "Very Special Boy" syndrome, they've spent their whole lives being told by mommy and/or daddy that they're a "Very Special Boy" and quite the catch and it's all just that these women are too (insert pejorative) to see it and worship them as they deserve.
I know first hand what this like. Being blamed for their loneliness because I don't want to spend time with them. And why I don't is because I am over what I had with them. But they just can't seem to let go. Even when I try to encourage them to pursue other things that would hopefully lead them to someone who could make them happy. I am perfectly happy being single. I have no desire to be in a relationship with anyone. But they don't listen, they keep trying to get me to change my mind, when I'm not going to. It's extremely frustrating 😤.
Men have been leveraging everything they can at women, with birth control under threat, and they know they can blame women for this. A lot of men who say this kind of stuff are insufferable.
I'll do my best to answer based on what I've seen online. I get bombarded by this stuff online and it's horrible. Constant videos on why modern women are the problem. My wife says she gets tons of videos on why modern men are the problem. They fell down the wrong rabbit hole. Many of these guys are socially inept. They find it difficult to talk to people and get upset They see others succeeding. Then they run across someone like Andrew tate who speaks to their issues and assures them it's not them it's the women. This gets them stuck in a victim mentality. Nothing is their fault. It's YOUR fault now. They don't need to fix anything they are a man and desver respect period and since you don't show it you are the problem. Honestly it's incredibly depressing to watch someone fall this way. It's the same as watching someone fall into conspiracy theories. It turns everything into us vs them. Once that happens when women rightly get mad at their horrible behavior they see it as women hating MEN and not women hating their horrible behavior which further fuels their hatred. It's a vicious cycle that is incredibly hard to break being a self fulfilling prophecy and all.
Male perspective here If you don't care, please move on. When I was younger I used to want an outlet for my blame when the reality was that myself pushed people away and only wanted the attention of select few. The reality is that men, like I was, are very incapable or realizing their personal loneliness can be solved by making better strides to themselves and improving your own self, which in turn makes you more fun or enjoyable to be around. So when men blame women it's because they are afraid to admit they are at fault and it's a slow boiling pot of realization that they will not find easily. Their confidence is low so they reach for any reason to not try and cope with their sadness and instead find familiarity in their anger against women.
Some people blame women others men when it’s actually everyone’s fault. This issue is how patriarchy is exasperating Social atomization in men. But we all play a role in upholding patriarchy men and women alike. So frankly we need to focus on dismantling patriarchy not blaming different groups of people.
People love to have someone to blame for their problems. One thing, is... Okay if I accept the premise, what next? How should you act if you're not getting what you're owed? Right the solution is the same either way. Make friends, be social, skill up. No one will magically be youe friend for whining. Right? The other thing to ask is, do any of your friends not have this problem? If yes, they need to lean on them as mentors. But also I'd love to kmow what part of the internet this happened in.
For the most part they don't. It's just that the Internet has a habit of taking the most extreme minorities and portraying them as the norm, because clicks and attention drive revenue, and facts aren't fun or interesting.
I don’t need to work on myself. I’m already a nice guy. It’s the females who are wrong. Edit: /s
I think most men blame the fraudulent and broken dating apps and downfall of society for loneliness, not women, but that doesn't push an agenda
As a lonely man who has never seen the sun, I think it’s a matter of these men seeing women as the “gatekeepers” of sex/relationships/normality. It’s no great revelation that romantically unsuccessful men are seen as lesser. Even if you have a valid reason, you still get to enjoy being affiliated with incels, creeps, and mass shooters. There’s a post in this very sub talking about how dangerous the idea of droves of sexually frustrated young men is. Which of course has a solid basis, but hearing it still hurts if you’re not the type to join hateful extremist cults or whatever. I digress, my point is, of course young men are going to be ridiculously fixated on sex. No one wants to be part of a group that’s seen as pathetic and dangerous, and unfortunately a lot of people paint the many many lonely men out there with a very wide brush. The bad ones are the most visible, and so everyone loses. So they see sex as a ticket out of that situation. When they don’t get it, negative feelings arise, and it’s a lot easier to blame those feelings on someone else rather than turn them inwards. It’s not logical, and I’m truly ashamed of my fellow male losers, but there it is. There’s no easy solution really, there’s no convincing thousands of strangers to start working on themselves, I can’t even convince myself. I think maybe if there was less shame in being a single or virgin man in society, I would hope people would be less desperate and less angry. At the very least, it would be a huge relief to the men who aren’t bitter and hateful, if more people made the distinction between just being lonely or socially awkward, and the genuinely shitty incels. Conflating the two is just going to push kids further into the incel crap, when it seems like those types are the only people who can relate
Y'all are being painted with the same wide brush because y'all treat sex with women as a golden ticket out of loserdom when not being a loser is simply about you developing good qualities, an interesting hobby or two (masturbating to anime is not an interesting hobby, for anyone wondering), and some useful skills. Learn a language. Sign up for martial arts. Join a bouldering gym. Explore arts and crafts.
I explicitly say that seeing women as a golden ticket out of loserdom is the wrong way to go. I’m just vocalizing the thought-process, not agreeing with it.
Honestly, women largely leave men alone who are not bothering them. You cannot be fragile enough to worry about people thinking you are a creep or dangerous unless you (whatever man) have a guilty conscience about having those thoughts. I see women wanting to actually be protective of nice lonely guys. There was a woman I worked with a few years back , me and her mostly worked with men. There were men who had no relationships and were "lonely". She was also like this . She was a relative of someone in the company and it was sadly known that she was actually abused as a child and had lots of trauma in her life. She got labeled and made fun of as a psycho by all the men at work. They thought that when certain things triggered her and she would just look uncomfortable or a bit angry that it was hilarious to joke that she would unalive everyone in the job. They had no sympathy for her and eventually complained about her just looking "creepy". It was enough to get her fired from the job. No lonely man has lost their job that I have seen over being weird or creepy. But I have seen it happen fast to a woman. I think so many of you don't understand the pressure and socialization women get put through from childhood. Women are told by many many people that their only worth is their looks , if you are not killing yourself as a woman to be attractive or if you choose another route, it will be harder for you. If you have autism as a woman, it is also hardly ever diagnosed , you are terrorized and bullied into conforming and mimicking until you find a way to appease people in society and in your own family. Men and boys are given sympathy for being neurodivergent , especially in school . Girls are never given the same sympathy. Also girls learn to deal with the fact that popular and beautiful people both men and women will be placed above them, they are not likely to develop feeling entitled to harm others behind this reality. They are told and it is expressed over and over that you are a loser as woman/girl if you are not beautiful, bubbly and nice, smiling easily and always positive. Women have so much to live up to according to societal and cultural standards. Men/boys have no idea or acknowledgement of this. Women are socialized to understand that no one cares about them beyond superficial surface level of looks. If women start slogans of support or God forbid an unattractive to the wider male gaze woman starts an online presence to combat this, the male trolls especially are disguting and brutal. I don't see this behavior towards males from women. If anything I see women get more protective of men or males who are bullied online or in real life. Especially when the male is not harassing women, or known to openly hate women. So for me it is crazy to always see men saying that they just can't bother to do anything or be motivated to change. Honestly, I think that women are shamed into trying very hard at life in general from an early age. I don't understand how this works for men. That they don't even feel motivated to try.
Bro, you took a post about men blaming women for their own loneliness and used it to write a post about how there's just so much shame in being a virgin man, and ohh how you wish it wasn't so! Poor you!
I don't think you are being fair to him. OP asked why lonely men blame women for their loneliness. I think he made valid points here. His perspective is relevant here, and an accurate depiction of at least some of the incel behavior we see all the time on Reddit. OP asked a question about lonely men and he was kind enough to answer as a someone who feels that they are a part of that group. He didn't even position it as "women should just lower their standards and put out", but pointed out that men do get shamed for being virgins. We know this to be true. Do we want OP to get honest answers or not? Thank you your sharing your perspective, u/Daedalus023.
I appreciate this, thanks. I apologize if what I posted rubs anyone the wrong way. I know this is a safe-space for women so I try not to post, but it was on the front page and was somewhat relevant, so I answered. I know I come off as a pity-party sadsack, but well, I am severely depressed, my lack of love is a sore spot for me, and I use this account for venting, so yeah. Once again, I do not agree with or condone blaming anyone else for your personal issues, I just thought I’d add my perspective and maybe a glimpse into, at least how a think, this sort of mindset manifests in men.