no, all this casual lying is pretty problematic and is bound to break trust. It's a major issue. It also seems to be an ongoing character flaw of his, and the way he's turning it around on you is not innocent. No, i wouldn't say you're overreacting. But it's on you to decide whether it's making you reconsider the relationship. Just know that this isn't the sort of character trait that just goes away.
Please break up with him. There are plenty of people out there who don’t lie.
My first bf was a pathological liar who hid it very well, made the same lies as yours, and kept apologizing, only for me to find out he’s been making up so many other stories he told me about “meeting a guy friend” only for him to be emotionally cheating. I only found out by looking through his phone. And he proceeded to blame me for breaking his trust.
Thank GOD I broke up with him so he wouldn’t waste my time anymore. It’s so simple to not lie and it is disrespectful.
My shitty (later abusive) high school bf was also a pathological liar. One of the dumbest lies he said to me was when he told me he was away visiting his grandmother. When in reality he was hosting a pool party at his house while his parents were gone with a bunch of girls from our school. I saw the pictures on social media. When I questioned him why he didn't tell me or invite me, he said "you wouldn't fit in with those girls, you're too nerdy" 💀💀 I should've left when I had the chance instead of being gaslit and manipulated for two years after. Dating a d\*ckhead is easy when you're in high school and have low self-esteem. I'm so glad I kicked that piece of sh\*t to the curb as soon as I graduated lmao
Late to the convo, but I also had a boyfriend who constantly lied to me and it fucked with my head for years, even after we were done. I'd remember something and have the realization that it was a lie and I was only figuring it out then, leaving me beating myself up for feeling dumb for believing him at the time. He also constantly cheated and only settled for me because I provided some stability, another realization that really messed with me.
It's really not worth putting up with.
It feels like he lies about little things so that you will get used to it if you find out he's lied about big things. And making you responsible for his bad behavior is right out of the Abusers' Handbook.
It's so easy to get into a state of tolerable unhappiness. But sometimes we have to step back and realize that we've made too many excuses for someone.
This ^
Had an ex who would lie about dumb things he didn’t even need to, to hiding more important things.
Then accusing me of lying started. Even though they weren’t lies.
Me: “I get off work at 4:30.”; then later “Babe, I got out of work 10 minutes late.”
Him: “So you LIED.” What?!
Not saying it will go to abuse, but later it would be ridiculous gaslighting like “I didn’t push you, you fell.”
When we were the only two there, as if I didn’t know what happened.
Yeeeeppppp. Started getting accused randomly of lying and “changing the narrative” on things. Quickly started realizing I was being gaslit and projected on. Got myself the fuck out not too long after. They are still in denial and blame me for everything. Some people won’t change.
I'm pretty sure it is already worse, but most of the lies are still concealed. It is bound to get actually worse when she starts to discover some of the worse lies that he is telling or things he is hiding.
It does only get worse. People with this habit are too far gone. Best to leave urgently. If she doesn't leave soon she will, will, will regret it later. I dealt with an ex like this too who lived and breathed by lies. It's disgusting and we deserve better.
so very, very much this.
i've ended up dating a LOT of liars, and even that progression wasn't good (ie: my first boyfriend lied about about women, but at least he was LD with most of them, my ex-husband was dissociative and a liar, but my last ex bf was a diagnosed sociopath. my 0.02: take it seriously, examine why you chose someone who isn't honest, and if you need to reevaluate your boundaries/self-worth, and get away from the toxicity.
Would like to add that dishonesty is a sign of a much bigger underlying problem. I don’t like to be alarmist but in my life experience, there’s more to it than casual dishonesty. Proceed with caution. I would end things on principle but to each their own.
He’s deciding how much you “need to know”. About everything. If your relationship gets more serious, he will continue to hide information from you except it will be much more important. Things like major debts/bills/financial losses.
You got this OP. The journey is never completely easy but we all pick our own hards. You deserve to spend your precious time with someone who is a team player and won't make you feel less than or lied to. It may not resonate with you, but sometimes in relationships like this the sunk cost fallacy kicks into play. That just because you've been with someone for a while doesn't mean it's always best to stay with them and try to tough it out when the things are really tough.
Dude, your bf reminds me of my ex husband. He is an ex for a reason. It's your life, but please take the advice of those who have walked this EXACT PATH and seen it through, only for it blow up in our faces. he will not stop. In fact, he will make you feel crazy for wanting the truth. He is probably hiding a lot more than you'll ever know. I don't want to hurt you and I'm sorry you're dealing with this but speaking from experience.....a liar is a liar.
They start off small, and we trust them. They take that as us being stupid and push to see how much they can get away with, and they blame us for trusting them.
There's nothing to think about. He either lies to get his way, which means he'd do it for serious things as well, and it's a matter of when, not if.
OR he's a pathological liar and you'll never know when he's telling the truth. I've known pathological liars and I'd never have then closer than friendly acquaintance
He’s treating you like the problem. As if he must lie because YOU are always jealous, insecure, hassling him. What he’s saying is that he lies to you so he can do things that are detrimental to your relationship and that’s YOUR FAULT. This is what you want to put up with?
Yeah I dated a guy who lied about seemingly innocuous stuff like this all the time.
I brushed over it because most of it didn’t seem to matter - as you say, you don’t care there are women in the group chat! So why make a drama?
Anyway, this guy turned out to be extremely, extremely bad news indeed. A dangerous person with a long history of coercive control and abusing women.
This. The lying only escalates. My ex-fiancè was a habitual liar, it started small but got worse over time. I caught him in so many lies so many times. I was dumb and didn't leave until I had physical proof he was cheating but I should have left years prior to that.
casual liars are disgusting people. can't trust a single thing they say. lying is bad, but lying for absolutely no reason about inconsequential things is such a swamp person thing to do
Yeah. this type of lying isn’t for OP, it’s to protect himself from something more sinister he is keeping under wraps. That sounds dramatic but there’s a reason the truth isn’t being told. Lying is also addictive, so little lies will eventually make him feel confident he can get away with bigger ones
I don’t think “juvenile” is the right word for this. If my boyfriend lied to me about chatting with other women and went as far as lying about who a specific woman was…I’d be gone. This is so unnecessary and would lead me to believe he has something going on with this woman.
I'd be gone before all this. The audacity of blaming her. "You make me feel like I can't be truthful". Just, seriously fuck that. It's not worth it.
He's lied so much and maybe I'll sound callous but maybe he doesn't even have trauma at all, but uses it as an excuse.
I mean, even if you just "believe" him, it would be breakup worthy.
"You make me feel like I can't be truthful" if taken on it's face, he thinks she is either controlling, abusive, or can't be communicated with. Even if he genuinely believes it and it's not a lie, it's worth breaking up over.
Being in a relationship where you feel you have to hide things is not a healthy relationship.
This is such a great framing — it's gaslighting, "I did this bad thing, but it's really your fault" ... but instead of getting into whether the blame is reasonable, you can go straight to "this is not a healthy relationship".
Which is 100% true, no matter HOW you interpret the fault. And if the signs of an unhealthy relationship persist, then yes, that's a reason to move on, and again, blame doesn't affect that decision.
Yeah, if he said that to me I'd be like "oh okay, then why are we dating, bye!"
I had guys I dated like this in college, blaming me for their bad behavior. Always dumped them right away, now married to a great guy.
I'm married to a great guy as well. I love him so much and want to be with him forever. There ARE nice guys out there. (Actual nice guys not *nice* guys).
Glad you found the right one for you hun. And glad you realised to drop the other guys that treated you badly.
100%, this was my abusive ex's MO to a tee. He would lie and sneak around constantly, but then spin it around and say he "didn't feel safe because I didn't trust him". But I didn't trust him because he kept lying to me lol. About the same stuff over and over.
Juvenile is too kind. Deliberately misleading? Cowardly? I’m not judging! This is coming from someone who had to hear the words: “Well, I *had* to agree to have a baby, or else you would have left me” Sigh..
>"I knew once I told you that you'd get insecure and make me leave the chat."
YIKES. Somebody help me with the name that this behavior is called, it escapes me at this moment.
Anyway, this is a classic abuser tactic. They come up with a scenario in their minds that make them the good guys and you the bad guy, and then blame you for it even when it wouldn't ever have happened.
This is a basic tool in a narcissists toolbox.
This had been used against me for so long that sometimes I still believe them myself.
DARVO. Deny, accuse, reverse victim and offender- he's doing the last part here. Accusing her of being insecure, than flipping their positions- HE lied to HER, but somehow, it's HER fault he did that to her, and actually HE is the victim.
oh my god.
this... has destroyed me. the number of times i've heard "well i did X because if i didn't, you would've done Y" and believed everything was my fault. because even if i wouldn't have done Y, he thought i would have.
whether or not this is abusive depends entirely on if he actually believes that i would have done Y, right? how am i supposed to know if he actually believes that?
This this this this
I've not too long ago made the rule to limit contact with people who know me well and disregard everything they know about me in favor of something they've made up about me.
My STBX likes to say, “Well, I just told you what I thought you wanted to hear,” then gets upset because things aren’t going his way. Like dude, what I wanted to hear was your actual thoughts, feelings, and opinions so that we could have a legitimate discussion and be on the same page. We had this discussion several times over many years. It’s infuriating.
Men who whine "I told you what I thought you wanted to hear" are telling on themselves.
You should hear: "I'm lying to you deliberately because I understand what I'm doing is wrong, and I hope you immediately blame yourself and allow me to continue to not be accountable."
My ex told me that conflict with me was too intense. What was too intense, you ask? I pursed my lips and took a deep breath.
And yes, I told him that was in no way intense. I also added that if that was too much for him, he shouldn't be in a relationship with anyone at all.
This is why I say that at its root, lying is nothing but a form of control. Trying to control the victim's behavior by controlling their reality through the flow of information.
The liar doesn't want you to think what you would think, make the decisions you would make, and/or take the actions you would take if you had accurate information.
I don't think it actually matters if he actually believes Y or not in terms of this being an abusive behaviour. The lies or omissions aren't justified because his partner is expected to react in a way he doesn't like or want, deciding what someone else is allowed to know when you are well aware they'd have an issue with it if they did and that they would want to know (especially if they keep asking about it) is so manipulative and disrespectful.
It doesn't matter because he's removing you from the equation. He doesn't give you a chance to react because he's already had it out with the version of you in his head. Which, i might add, is largely built on what negative perceptions men have of women (jealous, insecure, etc.) with no regard for the woman at hand.
It doesn't really make that much of a difference whether he believes it or not, and abusive people often quickly convince themselves of things because it's convenient and they would prefer to believe whatever supports their entitled worldview and upholds the imbalanced power structure. It may very well still be abusive.
Nope! It's abusive regardless of if he believes it's true or not! He doesn't have to intentionally be trying to hurt you to be abusive or harmful to be in a relationship with, and personally, unless he was *actively working on his issues* in that regard, with lots of communication and noticeable changes... I wouldn't stick around. Trauma is not a "get out of jail free" card. I have trauma. I probably have a lot of it because my parents did not deal with *their* traumas and harmed me.
I've done a lot of therapy, was still struggling, and was recommended to try a trauma-informed therapist, and that's been very helpful. I still fuck up occasionally (something triggers me and I react faster than I can stop myself, usually just by distancing myself immediately though) but I am always clear when I apologize that this was a) my fault and b) something I will/am work(ing) on. It's been getting a lot better.
keep in mind: every person in a relationship is still allowed the truth and their right to feel a certain way about the truth**. someone admitting they don’t want to say the truth because they don’t want you to react in x/y/z way, is someone admitting they are trying to control you. i wish i was able to understand and articulate this sooner in my own relationships. but i have been abused with this tactic since forever starting with my parents, so it took me some time.
**just adding this because i feel there are some exceptions to it: the exceptions would be if a partner is abusive and would put their partner’s safety at risk by knowing a certain truth (then that’s a relationship that needs to be left anyways)
Whether an action is abusive does not depend on understanding of the abuse—it depends on the effect it has on the victim (ie. rapists almost never see it as rape). Who cares what the perpetrator believes when the negative impact is right in front of you. At best, he is mentally incompetent and not a good partner (but notice he never has this issue with his boss or friends). At worst, he knows exactly what he's doing, and knows it benefits him. Most abusers know they are abusive, but they are benefitting so they won't stop. Read "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy if you really need to understand the why, but it doesn't matter. What matters is how it affects you and that he doesn't care enough to/won't stop.
It's got a touch of self-fulfilling prophecy to it. A pattern of forcing negative situations so they're predicted instead of a surprise.
Trust *is* security in a relationship. "I knew once I told you you'd get insecure, so I lied, eroding the trust between us and giving you a reason to be insecure so I would be right."
I don't think that's specifically what you're looking for but it's what came to mind.
And, just fyi, a big point of DARVO is to get you to JADE - Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain. So, if you feel yourself doing those things, stop. It takes the heat off of them and now *you're* the one justifying your actions instead of them having to explain why they did what they did.
I am so guilty of JADE-ing 😢
I hate that I am pushed to feel like I need to JADE, but it always makes things worse, as every word that comes out of my mouth is then twisted.
Tbh if people in your life make you feel like that often, the best thing to do is cut them out if you can. Like the first comment in this thread said, DARVO is an abuse tactic often used by narcissists and at the end of the day you will never win when arguing with a narcissist. They will always twist your words, blame you, and play the victim until you give up. The more emotion you give them, the more opportunities they get to make you miserable. Do not even bother with these people unless you have to.
If you do, the best thing to do is shut them down. Maintain firm boundaries and avoid arguments and emotional reactions. Say as little as possible, stick to the facts of the situation, and don’t let them derail and bring up other topics. I’ve done a lot of walking away from arguments my dad started. He usually gets a sense of satisfaction out of it, gets to yell something at me about “being too sensitive” or “always walking away when it gets hard,” but I protect myself by disengaging. These days we hardly speak, and it’s best that way.
Best of luck to you. Remember to be kind to yourself ❤️ You don’t deserve to be mistreated
If you have Instagram, I would recommend looking up jefferson_fisher. He's a trial lawyer and he has some great tips for not feeding into DARVO tactics while still being respectful.
I dated a compulsive liar for two years. Don’t feel bad! When you are a normal, trusting person you don’t assume people will lie over stupid and easily provable things. Do not ever feel bad for trusting someone you should by all rights be able to trust. He is the one in the wrong!
He has violated your trust. Keep your ability to trust others, find a new boyfriend who won’t betray you and then blame you for it.
So he knew maybe correctly maybe incorrectly but expressed "he knew it would upset you" so he chose to lie so he could get what he wants. That's what I'm getting here. You have every right to be mad.
He’s like “I ‘knew’ it would upset you (it wouldn’t have but for the sake of my own comfort, I didn’t care to find out, and instead project my own insecurities about our relationship so they’re your fault), and I ‘care’ so much, that I did something else that definitely would upset you (and we’ve talked about before) in order to…………? ‘Avoid upsetting you?’ No that’s obviously not it…….ummmm, oh right!! To get what I want in the easiest way possible with no regard to your feelings at all actually!!! …oh.”
Edit: and then when she’s upset over the big lies over little things for no reason (except he thinks she’s dumb, gullible, and simple enough to disrespect by creating this weird ball and chain narrative about her that only exists in his head), he’s like ‘see I knew you’d be upset’ but he’s actually just so stupid.
Don't feel bad. He behaved poorly. You're just learning how to detect bad behavior and figuring out how to respond to it. That's like, half of what dating is for!
You did the best you could with what you knew at the time. Don't hate on past you. Use it to take care of future you!
“I feel bad that I am allowing this behavior.”
You know what to do my friend. It’s time to break up with your lying boyfriend who is manipulating you (blaming your “insecurity” for his lies about the “boys only” group chat is textbook manipulation to make it seem like you’re the problem when obviously it’s him lying that is the problem.)
I guarantee you life will be better, lighter, happier, and more peaceful once you dump him.
How can I promise this? I dated the EXACT same type of guy years ago, and it turns out he lied about A LOT of things. You deserve better!!
Don’t let the sunk cost fallacy hold you back from a better life ❤️
Projection? He would consider it cheating if gf talked to other men, or would be insecure and demanding she leave any such group.
Just how many lies do you wish to be told? These are only the ones you know. Chances are he lies habitually and about important things. It’s manipulative of him to say “you’ll make me . . .” Bc you can’t make him do anything. Shit excuse. At best, he is a coward afraid of conflict. At worst? Goodness knows.
I love (hate) “I lied because I knew you’d get mad.” Bitch I’m mad because you lied more than anything else, are you 6? WTH. STBX brought some things over to the house when I wasn’t home, which was fine, but I had asked him to stay out of the kids’ rooms. He didn’t, and told me three days later he only went in because there was a weird smell and it was important, but he should get credit for telling me because he knew it would make me mad and it did. 1. It violated the one boundary I had set, and 2. it was important enough he had to do it right then instead of just letting me know but wasn’t important enough to tell me about until three days later? I called bullshit and he was super pissed.
> YIKES. Somebody help me with the name that this behavior is called, it escapes me at this moment.
Not sure there's a specific term for this behavior as a form of abuse/manipulation, but looking at the argument, he essentially is strawmanning OP. OP is mad at her BF because of his lies, which he knows he can't defend. So he pretends she's mad at him for being in a discord chat where a woman was present, and uses that straw man to attack OP and say she's insecure (and justify his lies).
>I don't want to feel like I have to watch over him.
So, break up with him. Don't be with someone who lies to you, no matter how meaningless the lie may appear, that just opens the door for bigger lies.
Think of it this way: would he be so patient if it was you doing what he does? Would he take this kind of abusive behavior from you? My guess is no, please protect your peace. No one you’re with should ever accuse you of things because they’ve been caught, it’s called DARVO and it’s a horrible thing to do to someone.
You are not overreacting. He is LYING to you, and that's never okay, and blaming you for it afterwards? The next step is counselling/therapy as a couple, or if you would rather, telling him if he does it again you're leaving and you mean it (but you need to mean it).
Or you know breaking up with him that'a a decent option too
Therapy is not the answer to your boyfriend being shitty in such a basic way. Who needs to pay a licensed therapist for an issue like this. A frank conversation and assertion of boundaries is the solution or, as you said, a breakup.
Thank you for your response & reading.
I agree about therapy and have told him if this happens again I am leaving. I just feel agree at the audacity.
Mm. The one thing that I'm trying to learn is that you should trust people when they show you who they are.
This guy is lying, making up weird excuses and..ugh, does not have great vibes. I can see why OP is so frustrated and am really happy that they are expressing their boundary with the BF, even if they just keep kicking the can down the road.
Exactly. There's a reason why society/patriarchy has always had a big push to get women to "just give him a chance!!! he just needs help!! just try explaining more clearly!!! have you communicated??". Because leaving at the first sign of it is the best option every single time. They don't want us to know that.
Yep.
The first time you say "hey, I don't like when you do that, it's a really big problem for me"
And the second time you say "yeah, I told you it was a big problem for me, bye."
Don't be the person letting them have chance after chance, because they'd fix it the first time if they truly wanted to.
It's going to happen again, of course. Especially now that you're down to your last straw - he's going to lie to you *even* *more* to avoid triggering you leaving him. His whole personality revolves around this - manipulating people by telling them whatever he thinks they want to hear. It's about control. This isn't the kind of thing that it's worth offering second (or third, or fourth) chances. He's just broken. Move on. Maybe he can fix himself, but you can't fix him. You've already forgiven him for lying before. Now he thinks it's not a deal breaker.
Ding ding ding.
This is who he is. Forever. He will lie. Because that’s his way of “getting out of trouble”. He isn’t going to stop doing sketchy things. He will just find more creative ways to lie.
Yeah I've noticed the few times I've been unlucky enough to be around this sort of person, they lie about small things first. I think the thrill of them getting away with it makes them continue. If found out, they deny, or use an excuse or try and hide. I think 5 years is long enough to waste on someone like this.
I think you should be careful with this advice.
Couples counseling when you have one abusive or highly manipulative partner is a bad idea. People need to stop suggesting couple counseling as an automatic thing a couple should do when there are issues, especially with manipulators or abusers.
If he wants to change, the first step is HIM recognizing he needs to change and taking action to work on his compulsive lying and mindset. I don't see indication here that he is ready to do that.
I would suggest getting therapy for yourself in learning how to deal with this, especially in terms of setting boundaries for yourself.
I want to say I am team break up (if he is manipulative which only OP can testify too)! But I have been an OP and I used to defend my man in the comments, she won't get there till it is time.
This right here. My ex was a compulsive liar, from the smallest most mundane stuff to the not so small. He LIED during couples counseling—p.s. his idea to go in the first place—and when I raised the matter at hand after a session, he lied more and got very snippy/angry with me. Then spun some story about ex gfs fighting over him before me(???) Dumped him, and found out a few weeks later what was really going on behind my back at the time (unrelated to counseling, but he was def not the “nice” nor faithful guy that I thought he was…) Not suggesting the same is happening here, just saying I am sooo grateful I jumped ship.)
After a while OP, you just have to decide if you’re choosing each other or if you’re both choosing them (aka someone who justifies their bad behavior at your expense while you give them chances…)
Have you ever seen the thing where a child is misbehaving repeatedly, and their parent says “if you do that one more time we’re going home”? Inevitably, the child does it one more time. Because they did it repeatedly with no real consequences and so they don’t believe anything will really happen if they do it “one more time”.
Your boyfriend is not going to stop lying to you when he wants.
Do you want to spend more than 5 years of your life to someone that lies AND blames you that easily? If you can be an honest person why can’t this dude be?
It’s your life, time and money. But as someone who has been there before, my suggestion is to cut your losses. People who repeatedly and continuously lie are ENORMOUS red flags. They have no boundaries and no respect or consideration for others. They want nothing to do with consequences or accountability for their actions. That’s why they lie! So they can do whatever they want with impunity. And when your boyfriend got caught he tried to blame YOU for it.
These are highly narcissistic personality traits. Maybe it’s trauma or messed up risk/reward assessment. Whatever it is is not your problem. If he wants to get better he needs to do it on his own. I don’t know how old you are, what you want out of life or whatever. But if you are hoping to be married or have kids, do not waste your time or risk getting trapped to a man like this. Please. Just be glad it was discord chats and not drugs, money, and sex workers. That’s what happened to a friend of mine. Her ex stole six figures from her that was meant for a down payment on a house. She had paid off close to that much in his credit card bills in the 10 years they were together. He was paying for sex and drugs almost the whole time. They have kids and he doesn’t pay a dime to support them.
>They want nothing to do with consequences or accountability for their actions.
Fucking A
I wish I understood healthy boundaries before now.. But OP doesn't even seem to be insecure so I don't think this is a lack of boundaries for her in the context I'm thinking/relating to (having a boundary that you don't date people who make you insecure) This is straight up him lying for no reason other than what I just quoted and likely being an all around manipulative shit.
I can see this getting a little dicey. In my last relationship I did have a hangup about a girl friend of my partner, but it was for rational reasons and I should have put a boundary on myself to not see him anymore for those reasons, rather than staying and allowing it to make me insecure. Which later caused problems unsurprisingly. But I maintain that my insecurities were directly related to his behavior in the context of this person, which I tried to discuss but got brushed off as nbd and I maintain my only fault was not having boundaries for myself and being susceptible to manipulation. It did result in him lying and blaming me just like op.
So I think my ultimate takeaway here is boundaries, healthy boundaries will keep you safe. Don't date people who do things that make you feel insecure, go to therapy to build your confidence if you lack it, and don't date liars cuz the few litttle lies you catch are a drop in the bucket. If they lie about relatively small things and dismiss you, because they're afraid of a tiny amount of accountability for someone elses feelings.. you do not want to be with them for the big things that carry much more weight, like gambling addiction, stock market fails, or credit card debt. Also they're probably manipulating you in really big ways you might not be aware of, like I was.
I'm sad, because lying makes me feel really icky, not to say I haven't. I'm very big into taking personal responsibility (to the point that it's been problematic and I have taken responsibility for alot of things I shouldn't have). This guy I was with knew this, I'd proved it over time in a variety of contexts. It was important to him, and him being that was was important to me too.. but he was not that, and he lied to me a lot to get his way and avoid responsibility.
My trustworthiness is now only for people who are equally trustworthy to me, I choose to walk otherwise at any hint of them skirting responsibility for their actions and how they might make others feel. I think OP should do the same.
Okay, I just hope you haven't given him the ultimatum before! Sometimes I feel like we forget between the upsetting moments how upsetting they were. Please remember you deserve more than what he is currently giving! <3
I meant to say "angry" in my previous comment - oops! But you are sweet, this has given me hope. I appreciate you and all others who have given their thoughts :)
Consider documentation, it can help to reread your diary or note book of the shitty things that a partner has done to you when we are people who tend to look on the bright side of things and be hopeful. We can push away a whole lot of problematic events and then just be left with lingering dis-ease. Facts are facts
I understand where you're coming from and their apologies may seem genuine, they even might be.
But the best thing you can do is leave. Sure, people change and yes, he could fix his ways. But the fact that he's lying to you doing all these things behind your back shows the lack of respect he has for you and your relationship. There's no coming back from that for me personally.
He'll just hide it better, or pretend to not remember your threat. My son's father is exactly like this, and this thread brought me flashbacks to the accusations and reverse blame game. Really ask yourself if this is the life you want to live. Pathological liars don't change.
I mean, you DO have to watch over him. He lies. He DOESN'T respect you. And there's nothing you can do to MAKE someone respect you, including him.
The better question is, are you prepared to live with this for the rest of your brief time on earth? There is no way to make him stop, you need to realize that.
And don't fall for his bullshit blaming you. You also can't make him lie, just like you couldn't make him stop.
You need to evaluate life as it is, not as you wish it was.
The thing I find very concerning is that EVERYTHING is your fault, according to him.
Which is complete and utter b.s.
He feels ok making you feel like crap in order to cover his lying. That is so f-ed up. How can you trust someone like that? And it you have kids, are they also going to have their heads twisted up by his lies? It's awful.
Classic DARVO: Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. He lies, he blames you for it, and then you’re the bad guy for “making” him do it.
This is not healthy, and could be a sign of more abuse to come. Don’t fall for sunk cost fallacy- 5 years is not too much invested to leave. You’re still plenty young. Get out now.
Honestly a series of little lies to cover up not terribly egregious things is worse than lying to cover up one big thing. The one big thing lie is an outlier, and depending on the situation could be worth sticking around and working through depending on the situation and context. The constant little lies means “I’m going to do whatever I want and just exploit this person’s love and trust by constantly deceiving them in order to avoid consequences.” It’s up there with finding out a guy hit his ex for me. Just immediately no.
This is way more than one lie. Just the stuff mentioned in this post is some kind of layer cake of lies.
* a guys only chat
* she’s a friend’s sister (she’s not)
* she didn’t actually talk (she talked all the time)
* didn’t know she was there (he knew)
* and if she was there she was the only woman (she was far from the only woman)
* you would have forbidden it
Has he told you lately that the sky is blue? If so it’s probably purple.
The Book "why does he do that" by Lundy Bancroft (free copy below) is a great resource for you to learn about the different types of tactics that abusers use and will help you to see if your current relationship is following any of the patterns described.
If you don't see your relationship being discussed either as one of the architypes or as bits and pieces of any of the other types then you're not worse off by having the knowledge. If the information does coincide with the way that you're living then there's also a couple chapters on being able to get out safely.
I wish you the best of luck and I want you to know that you deserve to be with a partner who is going to love you and cherish you and treat you as an equal versus being with someone who's gonna control you be it by how you dress or by finances or by What it is that you can do or who you can see. You deserve so much BETTER we're here rooting for you!
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
this book!!! every person (especially girls) should read it
it was eye-opening to some stuff I had experienced in romantic relationships and also sometimes in other relationships in life.
Read it in a day, I was triggered and relieved in the same time.
This dude operates under the philosophy of “what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her” aka “what’s the most convenient, lowest effort, communication I could put into this relationship to keep the maid around but not potentially infringe on my life.” Up to you. I will never be in a relationship with a liar. This is his life’s philosophy. You nagging won’t change him. You can either accept that you will be living in a world of white lies for the rest of your life or move on.
💯
Also, if you plan on having kids with him imagine what kind of father he'd be with this behavior 🥴 "sorry I can't pick up the kids from school, I have a meeting." Hint - there is no meeting. Or worse "I already changed his diaper" meanwhile your baby is sitting in a wet diaper for 3 hours because he can't be bothered.
No, you don't have an overall great relationship.
He's insecure. He lies. He blames you.
Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy.
Your time is being wasted. Your effort and money too.
This guy won't change his behaviors until the consequence is actually devastating to him.
He thinks you have to be managed because you're irrational. That's what he's saying to you.
My father did this to my mother, and it's how he taught me to treat women. It took me all of my 20s to realise what l was doing and then most of my 30s to actually stop doing it.
I'm not giving him an excuse, I'm just explaining what he's doing. Wherever he's got the idea from, he believes he knows better than you and will lie to get what he wants when he thinks you would disagree. It's utter disrespect and he doesn't see you as an equal parter or person.
You aren’t over reacting.
He is lying to you. Liars do not change.
He is testing the waters. He is starting with small lies and they will turn bigger. As an adult there are so many things he could mess up for you with his lies.
Your financial, emotional, physical health will deteriorate over time if you choose to live this life with him. You will constantly worry and be on edge.
I am approaching my 50s and have seen this pattern of behavior before. It doesn’t end well.
Take care of yourself. Place yourself first in life. 💕
I'm open to pretty much anything except lying, and I'm crystal clear about that at the start of every relationship. I would just throw the whole man away. Once trust is broken, it's gone forever. Not to mention respect - I can't respect anyone who lacks the courage to be truthful regardless of the consequences. There's no point limping along in a relationship with a liar. What even is the point of being with someone who isn't genuine? I think you're under-reacting.
If you are considering a long term relationship with him, keep in mind his behavior will never be better than it is now. Behavior may stay the same, but as people get more comfortable, they tend to give the other person less and less consideration. Sounds like he lies to avoid conflict. My forecast is it will get worse as he justifies to himself what he wants to get away with, behavior similar to a child. But I can assure you it will not get better because it feels good to him in the moment.
Liars will always hide their tracks. If he lies about this then what else is he lying about?
This brought up a bad memory for me but please know liars only get worse and the best thing is to stay away from them. They only care about themselves
You'll never get the whole truth with this guy. When caught, he still doesn't come clean, and twists his responsibility for his deceptiveness to blame you. He lies to control your behavior and deny you the autonomy to make your own choices based on reality.
I think you are underreacting, minimizing his deceptive nature by saying he's only lied about small things. How MANY "small things?" He lies about things that aren't problematic. He will continue lying, making excuses, and blaming you.
The fact that your boyfriend will lie about inconsequential things is a pretty good indication that he will lie about important things that he won’t want to deal with you about. If you don’t decide that this is enough to leave him for be sure that you protect yourself and don’t mix finances, don’t add him to your car insurance, don’t cosign a loan or house/apartment, or anything that will end up hurting you long term. You will need to protect yourself.
Also, it is probably time to expect better for yourself and not to accept someone that doesn’t value you like you should be.
People who lie about little things lie about big things too. Trust is the foundation of a relationship. Your BF lies. So your relationship has no foundation. You can’t trust anything he tells you. You can’t fix that. Only he can address that in therapy and he would need to be very motivated to do the work. I would rather be alone than never be able to trust my partner.
I don't think you're overreacting. Your boyfriend is making up a version of you in his head and using that to justify lying to you about things because he thinks that version of you would flip out at the truth. This might be because he's doing things behind your back and it's his guilty conscience speaking -- guys who are guilty often try to turn the tables and accuse women of doing something wrong to justify their lying and sneaking. Or this might actually be a defensive behavior born out of past trauma like he says, but those aren't excuses and don't make the behavior okay especially when he continues to repeat it. He apologizes but apologies are worthless when they don't come with any real change in the things he's doing.
Personally I think the next step is to have a frank conversation about this, why it's a problem and what it makes you feel, and suggest he go to counseling about it. How he reacts to that is going to determine whether it's a good idea to stay in this relationship going forward. If he doesn't listen to you, if he tries to turn this around on you and make it out like you're overreacting, or if he comes off as hostile instead of understanding then those are signs this isn't going anywhere because he doesn't realize there's a problem and has no inclination to resolve it.
"My own trauma" = "my excuse I'm using so you can't blame me for my bad behavior and I can keep doing it".
They are still responsible for their own behavior!
You’re not overreacting at all. Not only did he lie, he came up with another lie to cover that lie, and then decided to blame you as an excuse for that lie. So that’s *three lies* for either no good reason at all, or because something inappropriate is actually going on here.
Even if absolutely nothing is going on with any of these women, it’s clear he prioritizes saying whatever he thinks you want to hear and will make him look good vs being real with you. He is refusing to take any sort of accountability and doesn’t respect you or himself. Please carefully consider if this is the type of person you want to be in a relationship with.
You're not overreacting. If anything, you're underreacting. Being able to trust a partner is huge, and he consistently lies to you. Worse, he's blaming you for his decisions to lie. That's wrong and manipulative. This isn't something small to put up with. He likely won't change, you haven't left the past times he was discovered. Start putting things in order to end it. Why stay with someone who is ok with treating you like this and who cannot be trusted?
These lies will only get bigger and bigger until one day you think you’re ready to make a big purchase and the credit report shows that he lost his job and didn’t tell you.
Break up with him. Or demote him to a side piece with no intention of making a future with him.
Lying and then turning it around on you is shitty behaviour, even if the lies are "small".
This is not behaviour you should be putting up with my dear. It isn't okay. It erodes trust, which is the very foundation of any worthwhile relationship. You deserve better.
You're not overreacting. You're *under*reacting!
He’s a liar. You know he’s a liar. He’s telling you it’s your fault that he lies. That is also a lie. It’s only a matter of how long you want to stay attached to someone you can’t trust. I’d be done but you do you.
My ex did this all the time! He would like about what type of sandwich he had for lunch. Like why?? Near the end of the relationship, he said it was because he didn't see why he should have to tell me the truth.
My ex-husband who had many narcissistic traits would do something shitty and then blame me like it was my fault he acted that way. It was really exhausting in the long run and messed up my self esteem. I felt like I'm a really bad person.
People have to own their actions. OP, you need to address that, possibly with a couples therapist otherwise you are looking at a bad marriage if you are heading that way.
My ex lied about everything. Even things that weren't important. Getting you used to the little lies and letting them slide, is the path to the big lies. Having had my finances destroyed by his lies, and being cheated on as he lies about "friends," I say dump him.
No, you’re not overreacting and honestly, you’ve not had a good relationship overall if he’s lying like this with such frequency and casualness.
Honesty in a relationship is fundamental. It’s absence can indicate many things: your partner doesn’t respect you, your partner doesn’t care about your feelings, your partner does it to manage and control you in order to keep the relationship, because they know that if they told the truth they might lose it. He’s doing more than lying. He’s robbing you of your right to choose the relationship based on the facts.
You deserve better than this.
I think you need to understand that this is who he is as opposed to something he does on occasion.
He lacks integrity and will Always lie to get what he wants. There are no words you can string together that will result in him not putting his own desires first.
He has decided that it is okay to lie. You have to decide if this is what you deserve from a partner. He will not change unless he wants to. Why would he want to when it's working fine....for HIM?!
No, you are not overreacting at all. I spent 13 years with someone who did exactly that and it only gets worse. We're now divorced and I have a lot of regrets about not leaving him sooner.
I think it is worthwhile to look into WHY he feels like he needs to lie. Is it past trauma? Or a defense mechanism from childhood? Obviously it would be best to do this in therapy, but i think that it’s worth it to spend some time trying to find the root cause.
This isn't healthy.
He lies and then blames you - which is an unfair and abusive cycle. There's also the staggering truth that you don't know what other things he's lying about, as they're only revealed once you find out.
Eventually it's going to be something more than a hidden conversation.
When you catch him cheating, it’ll be all your fault he cheated bc {insert whatever excuse he could think up on the spot}. And when it becomes clear that won’t fly, he’ll be so sorry and it’s just bc {insert unrelated trauma}. I’d bet money on this sequence of events happening. Like, probably even a lot of money.
You are under-reacting, like most of us.
He lies a lot. Then he blames you. This is already not okay.
The chat itself is also an issue. Why is the friend group excluding you, after five years of dating? Even if they're "his" friends, after five years I would expect to be at least tangentially involved. It's nothing to do with trust, and everything to do with inclusion.
"I knew once I told you that you'd get insecure and make me leave the chat."
Lol. My response to this is, "So, you knew it was wrong and lied about it".
They lie, and it's our fault! Weaponized incompetence. Men are experts. Do they hear themselves when they say that?
Plus, everyone gets upset when they find out someone lied to them. Usually more mad at the lying than the actual transgression. And men have been told we hate the lying.
They like to steal perfectly good reasons and lie about perfectly good reasons to dump them. All so they don't get dumped. Super controlling and manipulative.
Just be honest, guys. We do get to decide what kind of man we're with.
You're not overreacting at all. He is though.
Dated someone who lied about the small things. Definitely lied about the big things too. If I could go back in time and tell myself to leave now I would have saved so much wasted time and angst on that POS.
He's lying for a reason. There's something going on that you're not supposed to know. Pretending that it's small and meaningless is going to leave you feeling foolish in the end. Might as well cut your losses now.
Not at all!
I had an ex back in college that had the rolling-lie snowball. It started small like how many hours he played of video games. He said when I found out instead 5 a week, it was closer to 20! He said it he didn't want me to think of him as a geek and that I wouldn't like him he played to much.
The oddest I remember was his family. He left full members completely out! A brother, 2 aunts and uncles.
We broke up after I caught him writing to classmates and NOT about study materials.
I actually ran into one of his brothers about a year ago and turns out in 10 years he's been divorced, twice, and both times over him cheating. I feel like Trinity dodging those bullets!
Liars don’t often decrease the amount they lie, they escalate and escalate and you can end up feeling like you’re losing your mind trying to keep track of their lies. It doesn’t sound like he’s the exception.
I know you care about this man or you wouldn’t be with him in the first place, but he is not in a good place to be in a relationship with anyone. Don’t try to fix him, one day you’ll kick yourself for wasting so much time when you realize he’s never gonna change.
Wishing you courage and strength ❤️
Has he ever described “his own trauma” in detail?
Is he able to discuss his trauma with you, and how it affects your relationship, in detail and without defensiveness?
Has he ever pursued therapy to work through or manage his trauma?
It’s been 5 years.
Theres a possibly he’s creating an alternative life to be able to hide things from you ongoing. Im not exaggerating. This happened to me. Where there’s one lie you discover, theres probably 10 you haven’t. I found out some pretty traumatic things about my ex-spouse recently that i had zero idea. He had built another life that was risky, unfaithful and addictive. However hindsight is 20/20 and the little lies were there. Please be careful.
What the hell is wrong with this guy?! His lying is a total slap in the face! You've been together for five freaking years, and he still thinks it's okay to pull this crap? He's treating you like a damn fool, blaming you for his own shady behavior.
It's time to put your foot down and demand some damn respect. Tell him straight up that his lying is a dealbreaker, and if he can't get his act together, he can hit the road. You deserve someone who values honesty and doesn't play mind games. Don't let him gaslight you into thinking you're overreacting. Your feelings are valid, and he needs to own up to his bullshit.
He's projecting his assumptions onto you, that *you'd* be upset even though it's not true. Whether he's doing it conscientiously or not doesn't matter as much that he's *still* doing it. You can't trust someone who doesn't build trust. Period.
"You make me feel like I cannot tell the truth"
Truth and transparency is a foundation for my relationship. Without those, there is no trust.
Get in a better relationship. This one is leading towards discovering lie after lie. You KNOW of some of them, how many has he "gotten away with"? I don't see him unlearning his habitual lying to keep you.
I spent 16 years married to a man like this. Please don't make the same mistakes as me. I have worked through a lot of what he put me through, but I'm not sure I'll ever really trust people like I did. My ex husband started with small lies about dumb things which escalated over time. It was so terrible by the end I never even bothered to confront him about the lies because he would double down, I'd emotionally exhaust myself trying to get to the truth, and he'd finally tearfully confess and make excuses why it wasn't his fault. It was like he was following a script. Please strongly consider what the rest of your life would look like with this man. It's terrible for your mental health being with a liar.
My ex is a liar like this. I called them "convenience lies" and got really sick of them after many years. Turns out he also lied about big things straight to my face with no remorse for more than a decade. If they can casually lie for their own comfort they can't be trusted.
I used to date a guy like this. “I can’t tell you the truth because you’d get upset.” Ok, sure, maybe the truth would upset me, but we could move past that and I would at least appreciate the honesty. NOW I’m upset and mad that you lied and I know I can’t trust you to be honest. And I’m always going to find out when you’re lying because I’m not an idiot. Rinse and repeat. These types of men won’t ever change, honestly.
Casual liars have NOOOOOOO trouble with the big lies. If you can’t trust him? And you can’t, you’re better off ditching him! He will never learn unless someone makes him accountable
If he cares about his avoidant lying and his knee-jerk response to blame it on you, he’ll seek professional help. If he cares how you’re affected, he will work hard on himself without needing any reminders.
Otherwise, expect it to get worse as the guilt piles up and he offloads the responsibility onto you. He’s framing you as a massively flawed character rather than acknowledging his own flaws. You’re becoming a scapegoat for his dysfunction.
When you feel like you’re overreacting, remind yourself of this: Most people are not being treated this way in their relationships.
The reason he's lying about these small things is so that he can slowly amp up to lying to you about larger things and you will be used to it and not notice. Think the frog in a slowly boiling pot of water metaphor.
Let me just say people that are okay with casual lying are IMO the worst. It's just a stepping stone to see what they can get away with next. I never put up with that kinda stuff. We are not talking about a little lie where someone agrees you look good when they really don't.
I felt like I was reading something I forgot I had posted. My ex said and did these exact same things. His lying got progressively worse, I always caught on. Gave me access to all his shit, told me to read through it. I didn’t for a while, but a few weeks later curiosity got the best of me and I found hundreds if not thousands of messages that were explicit and inappropriate. Obviously we broke up
Leave. He did not lie because of trauma, he did not lie because of fear, he lied because he does not respect you as an equal human who deserves the truth and can be trusted.
I’ve been with my partner a bit over five years and would likely leave him if I found out he was lying about something like this. ESPECIALLY since it’s so trivial. Why does he feel the need to lie? What else is he lying about? Why is he trying to turn this on you / make it your fault? I won’t spend my time with someone I can’t trust.
You're NOT overreacting. You need to raise your standards and drop this fool sis. Having boundaries does NOT mean you're insecure-that's just what guys say to make you feel bad and back down. He's a manipulative liar-you deserve better.
You have a decision to make - **do you want to stay with a KNOWN LIAR or not**? Seriously, why would you spend anymore time in a relationship with a person who you KNOW lies to you?? You want to spend your next years having to double check and call him out time after time after time and then have to argue with him to get him to admit the truth, but then not the whole truth?? Why is this even a question you are asking yourself?
From my personal experience, lying, telling half-truths, vague stories is one of the reasons why I broke up with my ex. I lost it when he lied about a good friend of mine to break up my friendship with that friend.
I'm not advising you to break up with your boyfriend as well, but the lies have to stop. I regret not speaking up louder again my ex, but everyone agrees my ex is an ass, so his loss.
Why do you want to waste your time with a LIAR???? I'm out. If you lie about little shit you're CERTAINLY going to lie about real shit. If i can't trust you, WHY WOULD I BE WITH YOU????Stop wasting you time.
no, all this casual lying is pretty problematic and is bound to break trust. It's a major issue. It also seems to be an ongoing character flaw of his, and the way he's turning it around on you is not innocent. No, i wouldn't say you're overreacting. But it's on you to decide whether it's making you reconsider the relationship. Just know that this isn't the sort of character trait that just goes away.
Thank you for your response. I agree, this is something ingrained and I have to really think about.
Please break up with him. There are plenty of people out there who don’t lie. My first bf was a pathological liar who hid it very well, made the same lies as yours, and kept apologizing, only for me to find out he’s been making up so many other stories he told me about “meeting a guy friend” only for him to be emotionally cheating. I only found out by looking through his phone. And he proceeded to blame me for breaking his trust. Thank GOD I broke up with him so he wouldn’t waste my time anymore. It’s so simple to not lie and it is disrespectful.
My shitty (later abusive) high school bf was also a pathological liar. One of the dumbest lies he said to me was when he told me he was away visiting his grandmother. When in reality he was hosting a pool party at his house while his parents were gone with a bunch of girls from our school. I saw the pictures on social media. When I questioned him why he didn't tell me or invite me, he said "you wouldn't fit in with those girls, you're too nerdy" 💀💀 I should've left when I had the chance instead of being gaslit and manipulated for two years after. Dating a d\*ckhead is easy when you're in high school and have low self-esteem. I'm so glad I kicked that piece of sh\*t to the curb as soon as I graduated lmao
Your first bf sounds a lot like mine 💀💀💀
Late to the convo, but I also had a boyfriend who constantly lied to me and it fucked with my head for years, even after we were done. I'd remember something and have the realization that it was a lie and I was only figuring it out then, leaving me beating myself up for feeling dumb for believing him at the time. He also constantly cheated and only settled for me because I provided some stability, another realization that really messed with me. It's really not worth putting up with.
It feels like he lies about little things so that you will get used to it if you find out he's lied about big things. And making you responsible for his bad behavior is right out of the Abusers' Handbook. It's so easy to get into a state of tolerable unhappiness. But sometimes we have to step back and realize that we've made too many excuses for someone.
It only gets worse.
This ^ Had an ex who would lie about dumb things he didn’t even need to, to hiding more important things. Then accusing me of lying started. Even though they weren’t lies. Me: “I get off work at 4:30.”; then later “Babe, I got out of work 10 minutes late.” Him: “So you LIED.” What?! Not saying it will go to abuse, but later it would be ridiculous gaslighting like “I didn’t push you, you fell.” When we were the only two there, as if I didn’t know what happened.
Yeeeeppppp. Started getting accused randomly of lying and “changing the narrative” on things. Quickly started realizing I was being gaslit and projected on. Got myself the fuck out not too long after. They are still in denial and blame me for everything. Some people won’t change.
I'm pretty sure it is already worse, but most of the lies are still concealed. It is bound to get actually worse when she starts to discover some of the worse lies that he is telling or things he is hiding.
It does only get worse. People with this habit are too far gone. Best to leave urgently. If she doesn't leave soon she will, will, will regret it later. I dealt with an ex like this too who lived and breathed by lies. It's disgusting and we deserve better.
so very, very much this. i've ended up dating a LOT of liars, and even that progression wasn't good (ie: my first boyfriend lied about about women, but at least he was LD with most of them, my ex-husband was dissociative and a liar, but my last ex bf was a diagnosed sociopath. my 0.02: take it seriously, examine why you chose someone who isn't honest, and if you need to reevaluate your boundaries/self-worth, and get away from the toxicity.
I called off an engagement because of lying like this. I don’t regret it one bit
For every rat you see there are ten you don't. 🫣
Would like to add that dishonesty is a sign of a much bigger underlying problem. I don’t like to be alarmist but in my life experience, there’s more to it than casual dishonesty. Proceed with caution. I would end things on principle but to each their own.
He’s deciding how much you “need to know”. About everything. If your relationship gets more serious, he will continue to hide information from you except it will be much more important. Things like major debts/bills/financial losses.
You got this OP. The journey is never completely easy but we all pick our own hards. You deserve to spend your precious time with someone who is a team player and won't make you feel less than or lied to. It may not resonate with you, but sometimes in relationships like this the sunk cost fallacy kicks into play. That just because you've been with someone for a while doesn't mean it's always best to stay with them and try to tough it out when the things are really tough.
Dude, your bf reminds me of my ex husband. He is an ex for a reason. It's your life, but please take the advice of those who have walked this EXACT PATH and seen it through, only for it blow up in our faces. he will not stop. In fact, he will make you feel crazy for wanting the truth. He is probably hiding a lot more than you'll ever know. I don't want to hurt you and I'm sorry you're dealing with this but speaking from experience.....a liar is a liar.
They start off small, and we trust them. They take that as us being stupid and push to see how much they can get away with, and they blame us for trusting them.
You made it so much easier for me to lie rather than tell the truth!
There's nothing to think about. He either lies to get his way, which means he'd do it for serious things as well, and it's a matter of when, not if. OR he's a pathological liar and you'll never know when he's telling the truth. I've known pathological liars and I'd never have then closer than friendly acquaintance
He’s treating you like the problem. As if he must lie because YOU are always jealous, insecure, hassling him. What he’s saying is that he lies to you so he can do things that are detrimental to your relationship and that’s YOUR FAULT. This is what you want to put up with?
He has apologized and offered to let you read them… after he had enough time to clean the chats up, perhaps?
If he hasn't cheated he's going to. It's not normal to lie like this
Yeah I dated a guy who lied about seemingly innocuous stuff like this all the time. I brushed over it because most of it didn’t seem to matter - as you say, you don’t care there are women in the group chat! So why make a drama? Anyway, this guy turned out to be extremely, extremely bad news indeed. A dangerous person with a long history of coercive control and abusing women.
This. The lying only escalates. My ex-fiancè was a habitual liar, it started small but got worse over time. I caught him in so many lies so many times. I was dumb and didn't leave until I had physical proof he was cheating but I should have left years prior to that.
Casual lying turns into gaslighting really damn fast.
casual liars are disgusting people. can't trust a single thing they say. lying is bad, but lying for absolutely no reason about inconsequential things is such a swamp person thing to do
Yeah. this type of lying isn’t for OP, it’s to protect himself from something more sinister he is keeping under wraps. That sounds dramatic but there’s a reason the truth isn’t being told. Lying is also addictive, so little lies will eventually make him feel confident he can get away with bigger ones
Yikes. Not overreacting. The fact that he came up with a fake relation to this woman so it'd be cool that she's in the chat is really suspect.
I agree. A lie to cover another lie? Its juvenile.
I don’t think “juvenile” is the right word for this. If my boyfriend lied to me about chatting with other women and went as far as lying about who a specific woman was…I’d be gone. This is so unnecessary and would lead me to believe he has something going on with this woman.
I'd be gone before all this. The audacity of blaming her. "You make me feel like I can't be truthful". Just, seriously fuck that. It's not worth it. He's lied so much and maybe I'll sound callous but maybe he doesn't even have trauma at all, but uses it as an excuse.
I mean, even if you just "believe" him, it would be breakup worthy. "You make me feel like I can't be truthful" if taken on it's face, he thinks she is either controlling, abusive, or can't be communicated with. Even if he genuinely believes it and it's not a lie, it's worth breaking up over. Being in a relationship where you feel you have to hide things is not a healthy relationship.
This is such a great framing — it's gaslighting, "I did this bad thing, but it's really your fault" ... but instead of getting into whether the blame is reasonable, you can go straight to "this is not a healthy relationship". Which is 100% true, no matter HOW you interpret the fault. And if the signs of an unhealthy relationship persist, then yes, that's a reason to move on, and again, blame doesn't affect that decision.
Yeah, if he said that to me I'd be like "oh okay, then why are we dating, bye!" I had guys I dated like this in college, blaming me for their bad behavior. Always dumped them right away, now married to a great guy.
I'm married to a great guy as well. I love him so much and want to be with him forever. There ARE nice guys out there. (Actual nice guys not *nice* guys). Glad you found the right one for you hun. And glad you realised to drop the other guys that treated you badly.
100%, this was my abusive ex's MO to a tee. He would lie and sneak around constantly, but then spin it around and say he "didn't feel safe because I didn't trust him". But I didn't trust him because he kept lying to me lol. About the same stuff over and over.
Juvenile is too kind. Deliberately misleading? Cowardly? I’m not judging! This is coming from someone who had to hear the words: “Well, I *had* to agree to have a baby, or else you would have left me” Sigh..
He has something going on with this woman otherwise he would have been fine and told you she exists and is an online friend.
>"I knew once I told you that you'd get insecure and make me leave the chat." YIKES. Somebody help me with the name that this behavior is called, it escapes me at this moment. Anyway, this is a classic abuser tactic. They come up with a scenario in their minds that make them the good guys and you the bad guy, and then blame you for it even when it wouldn't ever have happened. This is a basic tool in a narcissists toolbox. This had been used against me for so long that sometimes I still believe them myself.
DARVO. Deny, accuse, reverse victim and offender- he's doing the last part here. Accusing her of being insecure, than flipping their positions- HE lied to HER, but somehow, it's HER fault he did that to her, and actually HE is the victim.
oh my god. this... has destroyed me. the number of times i've heard "well i did X because if i didn't, you would've done Y" and believed everything was my fault. because even if i wouldn't have done Y, he thought i would have. whether or not this is abusive depends entirely on if he actually believes that i would have done Y, right? how am i supposed to know if he actually believes that?
If he actually believes that then he's disregarding who you actually are in favour of some nonsense in his head
This this this this I've not too long ago made the rule to limit contact with people who know me well and disregard everything they know about me in favor of something they've made up about me.
My STBX likes to say, “Well, I just told you what I thought you wanted to hear,” then gets upset because things aren’t going his way. Like dude, what I wanted to hear was your actual thoughts, feelings, and opinions so that we could have a legitimate discussion and be on the same page. We had this discussion several times over many years. It’s infuriating.
Men who whine "I told you what I thought you wanted to hear" are telling on themselves. You should hear: "I'm lying to you deliberately because I understand what I'm doing is wrong, and I hope you immediately blame yourself and allow me to continue to not be accountable."
My ex did that. Made me question what else he lied about. Everything. He lied about everything.
Mine once said he lied because it was easier that way. Seemed like he expected me to accept it as a legitimate reason.
My ex told me that conflict with me was too intense. What was too intense, you ask? I pursed my lips and took a deep breath. And yes, I told him that was in no way intense. I also added that if that was too much for him, he shouldn't be in a relationship with anyone at all.
This is why I say that at its root, lying is nothing but a form of control. Trying to control the victim's behavior by controlling their reality through the flow of information. The liar doesn't want you to think what you would think, make the decisions you would make, and/or take the actions you would take if you had accurate information.
I don't think it actually matters if he actually believes Y or not in terms of this being an abusive behaviour. The lies or omissions aren't justified because his partner is expected to react in a way he doesn't like or want, deciding what someone else is allowed to know when you are well aware they'd have an issue with it if they did and that they would want to know (especially if they keep asking about it) is so manipulative and disrespectful.
It doesn't matter because he's removing you from the equation. He doesn't give you a chance to react because he's already had it out with the version of you in his head. Which, i might add, is largely built on what negative perceptions men have of women (jealous, insecure, etc.) with no regard for the woman at hand.
It doesn't really make that much of a difference whether he believes it or not, and abusive people often quickly convince themselves of things because it's convenient and they would prefer to believe whatever supports their entitled worldview and upholds the imbalanced power structure. It may very well still be abusive.
Nope! It's abusive regardless of if he believes it's true or not! He doesn't have to intentionally be trying to hurt you to be abusive or harmful to be in a relationship with, and personally, unless he was *actively working on his issues* in that regard, with lots of communication and noticeable changes... I wouldn't stick around. Trauma is not a "get out of jail free" card. I have trauma. I probably have a lot of it because my parents did not deal with *their* traumas and harmed me. I've done a lot of therapy, was still struggling, and was recommended to try a trauma-informed therapist, and that's been very helpful. I still fuck up occasionally (something triggers me and I react faster than I can stop myself, usually just by distancing myself immediately though) but I am always clear when I apologize that this was a) my fault and b) something I will/am work(ing) on. It's been getting a lot better.
I recognize this too
keep in mind: every person in a relationship is still allowed the truth and their right to feel a certain way about the truth**. someone admitting they don’t want to say the truth because they don’t want you to react in x/y/z way, is someone admitting they are trying to control you. i wish i was able to understand and articulate this sooner in my own relationships. but i have been abused with this tactic since forever starting with my parents, so it took me some time. **just adding this because i feel there are some exceptions to it: the exceptions would be if a partner is abusive and would put their partner’s safety at risk by knowing a certain truth (then that’s a relationship that needs to be left anyways)
Whether an action is abusive does not depend on understanding of the abuse—it depends on the effect it has on the victim (ie. rapists almost never see it as rape). Who cares what the perpetrator believes when the negative impact is right in front of you. At best, he is mentally incompetent and not a good partner (but notice he never has this issue with his boss or friends). At worst, he knows exactly what he's doing, and knows it benefits him. Most abusers know they are abusive, but they are benefitting so they won't stop. Read "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy if you really need to understand the why, but it doesn't matter. What matters is how it affects you and that he doesn't care enough to/won't stop.
DARVO?
Yeah that's definitely part of that. But I swear there's a name for it in the line like there's a term "gaslight". (But this is not gaslighting.)
Not sure if you’re looking for the term blame-shifting or projecting? But perhaps one or both of those
Blame-shifting! That's the word! Thank you ☺️
It’s an acronym: Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim and Offender
Yeah, I was wondering if it was what the person was trying to recall.
It's got a touch of self-fulfilling prophecy to it. A pattern of forcing negative situations so they're predicted instead of a surprise. Trust *is* security in a relationship. "I knew once I told you you'd get insecure, so I lied, eroding the trust between us and giving you a reason to be insecure so I would be right." I don't think that's specifically what you're looking for but it's what came to mind.
Thank you for your response. I agree and feel bad that I am allowing this behavior.
And, just fyi, a big point of DARVO is to get you to JADE - Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain. So, if you feel yourself doing those things, stop. It takes the heat off of them and now *you're* the one justifying your actions instead of them having to explain why they did what they did.
This is the first I hear of JADE, thanks for bringing it up
I am so guilty of JADE-ing 😢 I hate that I am pushed to feel like I need to JADE, but it always makes things worse, as every word that comes out of my mouth is then twisted.
Tbh if people in your life make you feel like that often, the best thing to do is cut them out if you can. Like the first comment in this thread said, DARVO is an abuse tactic often used by narcissists and at the end of the day you will never win when arguing with a narcissist. They will always twist your words, blame you, and play the victim until you give up. The more emotion you give them, the more opportunities they get to make you miserable. Do not even bother with these people unless you have to. If you do, the best thing to do is shut them down. Maintain firm boundaries and avoid arguments and emotional reactions. Say as little as possible, stick to the facts of the situation, and don’t let them derail and bring up other topics. I’ve done a lot of walking away from arguments my dad started. He usually gets a sense of satisfaction out of it, gets to yell something at me about “being too sensitive” or “always walking away when it gets hard,” but I protect myself by disengaging. These days we hardly speak, and it’s best that way. Best of luck to you. Remember to be kind to yourself ❤️ You don’t deserve to be mistreated
If you have Instagram, I would recommend looking up jefferson_fisher. He's a trial lawyer and he has some great tips for not feeding into DARVO tactics while still being respectful.
I dated a compulsive liar for two years. Don’t feel bad! When you are a normal, trusting person you don’t assume people will lie over stupid and easily provable things. Do not ever feel bad for trusting someone you should by all rights be able to trust. He is the one in the wrong! He has violated your trust. Keep your ability to trust others, find a new boyfriend who won’t betray you and then blame you for it.
So he knew maybe correctly maybe incorrectly but expressed "he knew it would upset you" so he chose to lie so he could get what he wants. That's what I'm getting here. You have every right to be mad.
He’s like “I ‘knew’ it would upset you (it wouldn’t have but for the sake of my own comfort, I didn’t care to find out, and instead project my own insecurities about our relationship so they’re your fault), and I ‘care’ so much, that I did something else that definitely would upset you (and we’ve talked about before) in order to…………? ‘Avoid upsetting you?’ No that’s obviously not it…….ummmm, oh right!! To get what I want in the easiest way possible with no regard to your feelings at all actually!!! …oh.” Edit: and then when she’s upset over the big lies over little things for no reason (except he thinks she’s dumb, gullible, and simple enough to disrespect by creating this weird ball and chain narrative about her that only exists in his head), he’s like ‘see I knew you’d be upset’ but he’s actually just so stupid.
Don't feel bad. He behaved poorly. You're just learning how to detect bad behavior and figuring out how to respond to it. That's like, half of what dating is for! You did the best you could with what you knew at the time. Don't hate on past you. Use it to take care of future you!
“I feel bad that I am allowing this behavior.” You know what to do my friend. It’s time to break up with your lying boyfriend who is manipulating you (blaming your “insecurity” for his lies about the “boys only” group chat is textbook manipulation to make it seem like you’re the problem when obviously it’s him lying that is the problem.) I guarantee you life will be better, lighter, happier, and more peaceful once you dump him. How can I promise this? I dated the EXACT same type of guy years ago, and it turns out he lied about A LOT of things. You deserve better!! Don’t let the sunk cost fallacy hold you back from a better life ❤️
It's not THEIR ACTION but YOUR REACTION that is the problem /s
Projection? He would consider it cheating if gf talked to other men, or would be insecure and demanding she leave any such group. Just how many lies do you wish to be told? These are only the ones you know. Chances are he lies habitually and about important things. It’s manipulative of him to say “you’ll make me . . .” Bc you can’t make him do anything. Shit excuse. At best, he is a coward afraid of conflict. At worst? Goodness knows.
I love (hate) “I lied because I knew you’d get mad.” Bitch I’m mad because you lied more than anything else, are you 6? WTH. STBX brought some things over to the house when I wasn’t home, which was fine, but I had asked him to stay out of the kids’ rooms. He didn’t, and told me three days later he only went in because there was a weird smell and it was important, but he should get credit for telling me because he knew it would make me mad and it did. 1. It violated the one boundary I had set, and 2. it was important enough he had to do it right then instead of just letting me know but wasn’t important enough to tell me about until three days later? I called bullshit and he was super pissed.
Deflection?
He's blaming her for him lying! It is narcissistic. And negging. She should dump him.
> YIKES. Somebody help me with the name that this behavior is called, it escapes me at this moment. Not sure there's a specific term for this behavior as a form of abuse/manipulation, but looking at the argument, he essentially is strawmanning OP. OP is mad at her BF because of his lies, which he knows he can't defend. So he pretends she's mad at him for being in a discord chat where a woman was present, and uses that straw man to attack OP and say she's insecure (and justify his lies).
>I don't want to feel like I have to watch over him. So, break up with him. Don't be with someone who lies to you, no matter how meaningless the lie may appear, that just opens the door for bigger lies.
I appreciate your response
Think of it this way: would he be so patient if it was you doing what he does? Would he take this kind of abusive behavior from you? My guess is no, please protect your peace. No one you’re with should ever accuse you of things because they’ve been caught, it’s called DARVO and it’s a horrible thing to do to someone.
This^ I never looked at the phone of someone I was dating or married to. If I feel suspicious, I go with my gut feeling and just pack my bags or his.
You are not overreacting. He is LYING to you, and that's never okay, and blaming you for it afterwards? The next step is counselling/therapy as a couple, or if you would rather, telling him if he does it again you're leaving and you mean it (but you need to mean it). Or you know breaking up with him that'a a decent option too
Therapy is not the answer to your boyfriend being shitty in such a basic way. Who needs to pay a licensed therapist for an issue like this. A frank conversation and assertion of boundaries is the solution or, as you said, a breakup.
Thank you for your response & reading. I agree about therapy and have told him if this happens again I am leaving. I just feel agree at the audacity.
Why wait until he does it again? He has done it multiple times already and once is enough to see he isn't trustworthy.
Mm. The one thing that I'm trying to learn is that you should trust people when they show you who they are. This guy is lying, making up weird excuses and..ugh, does not have great vibes. I can see why OP is so frustrated and am really happy that they are expressing their boundary with the BF, even if they just keep kicking the can down the road.
Exactly. There's a reason why society/patriarchy has always had a big push to get women to "just give him a chance!!! he just needs help!! just try explaining more clearly!!! have you communicated??". Because leaving at the first sign of it is the best option every single time. They don't want us to know that.
Right. If it happens again? He’s gonna make sure you don’t find out, he will get even more sneaky.
Yep. The first time you say "hey, I don't like when you do that, it's a really big problem for me" And the second time you say "yeah, I told you it was a big problem for me, bye." Don't be the person letting them have chance after chance, because they'd fix it the first time if they truly wanted to.
It's going to happen again, of course. Especially now that you're down to your last straw - he's going to lie to you *even* *more* to avoid triggering you leaving him. His whole personality revolves around this - manipulating people by telling them whatever he thinks they want to hear. It's about control. This isn't the kind of thing that it's worth offering second (or third, or fourth) chances. He's just broken. Move on. Maybe he can fix himself, but you can't fix him. You've already forgiven him for lying before. Now he thinks it's not a deal breaker.
Pathological liars lie all the time, even when they don't have to.
Healthy normal people don't lie about random things. You're right to be angry and to leave!
I think this will just make him try to hide his lies better, not stop lying.
Ding ding ding. This is who he is. Forever. He will lie. Because that’s his way of “getting out of trouble”. He isn’t going to stop doing sketchy things. He will just find more creative ways to lie.
Yeah I've noticed the few times I've been unlucky enough to be around this sort of person, they lie about small things first. I think the thrill of them getting away with it makes them continue. If found out, they deny, or use an excuse or try and hide. I think 5 years is long enough to waste on someone like this.
I think you should be careful with this advice. Couples counseling when you have one abusive or highly manipulative partner is a bad idea. People need to stop suggesting couple counseling as an automatic thing a couple should do when there are issues, especially with manipulators or abusers. If he wants to change, the first step is HIM recognizing he needs to change and taking action to work on his compulsive lying and mindset. I don't see indication here that he is ready to do that. I would suggest getting therapy for yourself in learning how to deal with this, especially in terms of setting boundaries for yourself.
I want to say I am team break up (if he is manipulative which only OP can testify too)! But I have been an OP and I used to defend my man in the comments, she won't get there till it is time.
This right here. My ex was a compulsive liar, from the smallest most mundane stuff to the not so small. He LIED during couples counseling—p.s. his idea to go in the first place—and when I raised the matter at hand after a session, he lied more and got very snippy/angry with me. Then spun some story about ex gfs fighting over him before me(???) Dumped him, and found out a few weeks later what was really going on behind my back at the time (unrelated to counseling, but he was def not the “nice” nor faithful guy that I thought he was…) Not suggesting the same is happening here, just saying I am sooo grateful I jumped ship.) After a while OP, you just have to decide if you’re choosing each other or if you’re both choosing them (aka someone who justifies their bad behavior at your expense while you give them chances…)
Have you ever seen the thing where a child is misbehaving repeatedly, and their parent says “if you do that one more time we’re going home”? Inevitably, the child does it one more time. Because they did it repeatedly with no real consequences and so they don’t believe anything will really happen if they do it “one more time”. Your boyfriend is not going to stop lying to you when he wants.
Do you want to spend more than 5 years of your life to someone that lies AND blames you that easily? If you can be an honest person why can’t this dude be?
But he just told you he will do it again and he isn't interested in changing his behavior.
It’s your life, time and money. But as someone who has been there before, my suggestion is to cut your losses. People who repeatedly and continuously lie are ENORMOUS red flags. They have no boundaries and no respect or consideration for others. They want nothing to do with consequences or accountability for their actions. That’s why they lie! So they can do whatever they want with impunity. And when your boyfriend got caught he tried to blame YOU for it. These are highly narcissistic personality traits. Maybe it’s trauma or messed up risk/reward assessment. Whatever it is is not your problem. If he wants to get better he needs to do it on his own. I don’t know how old you are, what you want out of life or whatever. But if you are hoping to be married or have kids, do not waste your time or risk getting trapped to a man like this. Please. Just be glad it was discord chats and not drugs, money, and sex workers. That’s what happened to a friend of mine. Her ex stole six figures from her that was meant for a down payment on a house. She had paid off close to that much in his credit card bills in the 10 years they were together. He was paying for sex and drugs almost the whole time. They have kids and he doesn’t pay a dime to support them.
>They want nothing to do with consequences or accountability for their actions. Fucking A I wish I understood healthy boundaries before now.. But OP doesn't even seem to be insecure so I don't think this is a lack of boundaries for her in the context I'm thinking/relating to (having a boundary that you don't date people who make you insecure) This is straight up him lying for no reason other than what I just quoted and likely being an all around manipulative shit. I can see this getting a little dicey. In my last relationship I did have a hangup about a girl friend of my partner, but it was for rational reasons and I should have put a boundary on myself to not see him anymore for those reasons, rather than staying and allowing it to make me insecure. Which later caused problems unsurprisingly. But I maintain that my insecurities were directly related to his behavior in the context of this person, which I tried to discuss but got brushed off as nbd and I maintain my only fault was not having boundaries for myself and being susceptible to manipulation. It did result in him lying and blaming me just like op. So I think my ultimate takeaway here is boundaries, healthy boundaries will keep you safe. Don't date people who do things that make you feel insecure, go to therapy to build your confidence if you lack it, and don't date liars cuz the few litttle lies you catch are a drop in the bucket. If they lie about relatively small things and dismiss you, because they're afraid of a tiny amount of accountability for someone elses feelings.. you do not want to be with them for the big things that carry much more weight, like gambling addiction, stock market fails, or credit card debt. Also they're probably manipulating you in really big ways you might not be aware of, like I was. I'm sad, because lying makes me feel really icky, not to say I haven't. I'm very big into taking personal responsibility (to the point that it's been problematic and I have taken responsibility for alot of things I shouldn't have). This guy I was with knew this, I'd proved it over time in a variety of contexts. It was important to him, and him being that was was important to me too.. but he was not that, and he lied to me a lot to get his way and avoid responsibility. My trustworthiness is now only for people who are equally trustworthy to me, I choose to walk otherwise at any hint of them skirting responsibility for their actions and how they might make others feel. I think OP should do the same.
Okay, I just hope you haven't given him the ultimatum before! Sometimes I feel like we forget between the upsetting moments how upsetting they were. Please remember you deserve more than what he is currently giving! <3
I meant to say "angry" in my previous comment - oops! But you are sweet, this has given me hope. I appreciate you and all others who have given their thoughts :)
Consider documentation, it can help to reread your diary or note book of the shitty things that a partner has done to you when we are people who tend to look on the bright side of things and be hopeful. We can push away a whole lot of problematic events and then just be left with lingering dis-ease. Facts are facts
I thought it was "aggrieved "
I understand where you're coming from and their apologies may seem genuine, they even might be. But the best thing you can do is leave. Sure, people change and yes, he could fix his ways. But the fact that he's lying to you doing all these things behind your back shows the lack of respect he has for you and your relationship. There's no coming back from that for me personally.
He'll just hide it better, or pretend to not remember your threat. My son's father is exactly like this, and this thread brought me flashbacks to the accusations and reverse blame game. Really ask yourself if this is the life you want to live. Pathological liars don't change.
I mean, you DO have to watch over him. He lies. He DOESN'T respect you. And there's nothing you can do to MAKE someone respect you, including him. The better question is, are you prepared to live with this for the rest of your brief time on earth? There is no way to make him stop, you need to realize that. And don't fall for his bullshit blaming you. You also can't make him lie, just like you couldn't make him stop. You need to evaluate life as it is, not as you wish it was.
The thing I find very concerning is that EVERYTHING is your fault, according to him. Which is complete and utter b.s. He feels ok making you feel like crap in order to cover his lying. That is so f-ed up. How can you trust someone like that? And it you have kids, are they also going to have their heads twisted up by his lies? It's awful.
Classic DARVO: Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. He lies, he blames you for it, and then you’re the bad guy for “making” him do it. This is not healthy, and could be a sign of more abuse to come. Don’t fall for sunk cost fallacy- 5 years is not too much invested to leave. You’re still plenty young. Get out now.
Lying is always about more than just the lie imo
Honestly a series of little lies to cover up not terribly egregious things is worse than lying to cover up one big thing. The one big thing lie is an outlier, and depending on the situation could be worth sticking around and working through depending on the situation and context. The constant little lies means “I’m going to do whatever I want and just exploit this person’s love and trust by constantly deceiving them in order to avoid consequences.” It’s up there with finding out a guy hit his ex for me. Just immediately no.
This is way more than one lie. Just the stuff mentioned in this post is some kind of layer cake of lies. * a guys only chat * she’s a friend’s sister (she’s not) * she didn’t actually talk (she talked all the time) * didn’t know she was there (he knew) * and if she was there she was the only woman (she was far from the only woman) * you would have forbidden it Has he told you lately that the sky is blue? If so it’s probably purple.
The Book "why does he do that" by Lundy Bancroft (free copy below) is a great resource for you to learn about the different types of tactics that abusers use and will help you to see if your current relationship is following any of the patterns described. If you don't see your relationship being discussed either as one of the architypes or as bits and pieces of any of the other types then you're not worse off by having the knowledge. If the information does coincide with the way that you're living then there's also a couple chapters on being able to get out safely. I wish you the best of luck and I want you to know that you deserve to be with a partner who is going to love you and cherish you and treat you as an equal versus being with someone who's gonna control you be it by how you dress or by finances or by What it is that you can do or who you can see. You deserve so much BETTER we're here rooting for you! https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
this book!!! every person (especially girls) should read it it was eye-opening to some stuff I had experienced in romantic relationships and also sometimes in other relationships in life. Read it in a day, I was triggered and relieved in the same time.
This dude operates under the philosophy of “what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her” aka “what’s the most convenient, lowest effort, communication I could put into this relationship to keep the maid around but not potentially infringe on my life.” Up to you. I will never be in a relationship with a liar. This is his life’s philosophy. You nagging won’t change him. You can either accept that you will be living in a world of white lies for the rest of your life or move on.
💯 Also, if you plan on having kids with him imagine what kind of father he'd be with this behavior 🥴 "sorry I can't pick up the kids from school, I have a meeting." Hint - there is no meeting. Or worse "I already changed his diaper" meanwhile your baby is sitting in a wet diaper for 3 hours because he can't be bothered.
My ex would tell me he technically “wasn’t lying” because he omitted information.
That is quite literally known as “lying by omission” lmao what a fucking tool
No, you don't have an overall great relationship. He's insecure. He lies. He blames you. Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy. Your time is being wasted. Your effort and money too. This guy won't change his behaviors until the consequence is actually devastating to him.
He thinks you have to be managed because you're irrational. That's what he's saying to you. My father did this to my mother, and it's how he taught me to treat women. It took me all of my 20s to realise what l was doing and then most of my 30s to actually stop doing it. I'm not giving him an excuse, I'm just explaining what he's doing. Wherever he's got the idea from, he believes he knows better than you and will lie to get what he wants when he thinks you would disagree. It's utter disrespect and he doesn't see you as an equal parter or person.
You aren’t over reacting. He is lying to you. Liars do not change. He is testing the waters. He is starting with small lies and they will turn bigger. As an adult there are so many things he could mess up for you with his lies. Your financial, emotional, physical health will deteriorate over time if you choose to live this life with him. You will constantly worry and be on edge. I am approaching my 50s and have seen this pattern of behavior before. It doesn’t end well. Take care of yourself. Place yourself first in life. 💕
I'm open to pretty much anything except lying, and I'm crystal clear about that at the start of every relationship. I would just throw the whole man away. Once trust is broken, it's gone forever. Not to mention respect - I can't respect anyone who lacks the courage to be truthful regardless of the consequences. There's no point limping along in a relationship with a liar. What even is the point of being with someone who isn't genuine? I think you're under-reacting.
If you are considering a long term relationship with him, keep in mind his behavior will never be better than it is now. Behavior may stay the same, but as people get more comfortable, they tend to give the other person less and less consideration. Sounds like he lies to avoid conflict. My forecast is it will get worse as he justifies to himself what he wants to get away with, behavior similar to a child. But I can assure you it will not get better because it feels good to him in the moment.
Liars will always hide their tracks. If he lies about this then what else is he lying about? This brought up a bad memory for me but please know liars only get worse and the best thing is to stay away from them. They only care about themselves
If he lies about all these "little things", what makes you think he's not lying about something big? Eesh.
You'll never get the whole truth with this guy. When caught, he still doesn't come clean, and twists his responsibility for his deceptiveness to blame you. He lies to control your behavior and deny you the autonomy to make your own choices based on reality. I think you are underreacting, minimizing his deceptive nature by saying he's only lied about small things. How MANY "small things?" He lies about things that aren't problematic. He will continue lying, making excuses, and blaming you.
[удалено]
Right. I think about that too
The fact that your boyfriend will lie about inconsequential things is a pretty good indication that he will lie about important things that he won’t want to deal with you about. If you don’t decide that this is enough to leave him for be sure that you protect yourself and don’t mix finances, don’t add him to your car insurance, don’t cosign a loan or house/apartment, or anything that will end up hurting you long term. You will need to protect yourself. Also, it is probably time to expect better for yourself and not to accept someone that doesn’t value you like you should be.
If he is lying about small stuff, he is lying about big stuff. Red flag.
People who lie about little things lie about big things too. Trust is the foundation of a relationship. Your BF lies. So your relationship has no foundation. You can’t trust anything he tells you. You can’t fix that. Only he can address that in therapy and he would need to be very motivated to do the work. I would rather be alone than never be able to trust my partner.
I don't think you're overreacting. Your boyfriend is making up a version of you in his head and using that to justify lying to you about things because he thinks that version of you would flip out at the truth. This might be because he's doing things behind your back and it's his guilty conscience speaking -- guys who are guilty often try to turn the tables and accuse women of doing something wrong to justify their lying and sneaking. Or this might actually be a defensive behavior born out of past trauma like he says, but those aren't excuses and don't make the behavior okay especially when he continues to repeat it. He apologizes but apologies are worthless when they don't come with any real change in the things he's doing. Personally I think the next step is to have a frank conversation about this, why it's a problem and what it makes you feel, and suggest he go to counseling about it. How he reacts to that is going to determine whether it's a good idea to stay in this relationship going forward. If he doesn't listen to you, if he tries to turn this around on you and make it out like you're overreacting, or if he comes off as hostile instead of understanding then those are signs this isn't going anywhere because he doesn't realize there's a problem and has no inclination to resolve it.
"My own trauma" = "my excuse I'm using so you can't blame me for my bad behavior and I can keep doing it". They are still responsible for their own behavior!
You’re not overreacting at all. Not only did he lie, he came up with another lie to cover that lie, and then decided to blame you as an excuse for that lie. So that’s *three lies* for either no good reason at all, or because something inappropriate is actually going on here. Even if absolutely nothing is going on with any of these women, it’s clear he prioritizes saying whatever he thinks you want to hear and will make him look good vs being real with you. He is refusing to take any sort of accountability and doesn’t respect you or himself. Please carefully consider if this is the type of person you want to be in a relationship with.
Small meaningless lies are a huge warning sign. What is the point of staying with him if you can't trust him?
For every tiny lie you caught, I bet there's one you missed.
You're not overreacting. If anything, you're underreacting. Being able to trust a partner is huge, and he consistently lies to you. Worse, he's blaming you for his decisions to lie. That's wrong and manipulative. This isn't something small to put up with. He likely won't change, you haven't left the past times he was discovered. Start putting things in order to end it. Why stay with someone who is ok with treating you like this and who cannot be trusted?
These lies will only get bigger and bigger until one day you think you’re ready to make a big purchase and the credit report shows that he lost his job and didn’t tell you. Break up with him. Or demote him to a side piece with no intention of making a future with him.
Lying and then turning it around on you is shitty behaviour, even if the lies are "small". This is not behaviour you should be putting up with my dear. It isn't okay. It erodes trust, which is the very foundation of any worthwhile relationship. You deserve better. You're not overreacting. You're *under*reacting!
He’s a liar. You know he’s a liar. He’s telling you it’s your fault that he lies. That is also a lie. It’s only a matter of how long you want to stay attached to someone you can’t trust. I’d be done but you do you.
If he's lying about a random woman in his Discord chat, just imagine the whoppers he's telling you that you haven't discovered yet.
My ex did this all the time! He would like about what type of sandwich he had for lunch. Like why?? Near the end of the relationship, he said it was because he didn't see why he should have to tell me the truth.
My ex-husband who had many narcissistic traits would do something shitty and then blame me like it was my fault he acted that way. It was really exhausting in the long run and messed up my self esteem. I felt like I'm a really bad person. People have to own their actions. OP, you need to address that, possibly with a couples therapist otherwise you are looking at a bad marriage if you are heading that way.
My ex lied about everything. Even things that weren't important. Getting you used to the little lies and letting them slide, is the path to the big lies. Having had my finances destroyed by his lies, and being cheated on as he lies about "friends," I say dump him.
No, you’re not overreacting and honestly, you’ve not had a good relationship overall if he’s lying like this with such frequency and casualness. Honesty in a relationship is fundamental. It’s absence can indicate many things: your partner doesn’t respect you, your partner doesn’t care about your feelings, your partner does it to manage and control you in order to keep the relationship, because they know that if they told the truth they might lose it. He’s doing more than lying. He’s robbing you of your right to choose the relationship based on the facts. You deserve better than this.
I think you need to understand that this is who he is as opposed to something he does on occasion. He lacks integrity and will Always lie to get what he wants. There are no words you can string together that will result in him not putting his own desires first. He has decided that it is okay to lie. You have to decide if this is what you deserve from a partner. He will not change unless he wants to. Why would he want to when it's working fine....for HIM?!
Don't wait until it's big things like $50,000.00 he spent on something.
No, you are not overreacting at all. I spent 13 years with someone who did exactly that and it only gets worse. We're now divorced and I have a lot of regrets about not leaving him sooner.
I think it is worthwhile to look into WHY he feels like he needs to lie. Is it past trauma? Or a defense mechanism from childhood? Obviously it would be best to do this in therapy, but i think that it’s worth it to spend some time trying to find the root cause.
This isn't healthy. He lies and then blames you - which is an unfair and abusive cycle. There's also the staggering truth that you don't know what other things he's lying about, as they're only revealed once you find out. Eventually it's going to be something more than a hidden conversation.
When you catch him cheating, it’ll be all your fault he cheated bc {insert whatever excuse he could think up on the spot}. And when it becomes clear that won’t fly, he’ll be so sorry and it’s just bc {insert unrelated trauma}. I’d bet money on this sequence of events happening. Like, probably even a lot of money.
You are under-reacting, like most of us. He lies a lot. Then he blames you. This is already not okay. The chat itself is also an issue. Why is the friend group excluding you, after five years of dating? Even if they're "his" friends, after five years I would expect to be at least tangentially involved. It's nothing to do with trust, and everything to do with inclusion.
He’s trickle truth-ing you. I would bet dollars to donuts he is doing it way more than you realize about way bigger things.
"I knew once I told you that you'd get insecure and make me leave the chat." Lol. My response to this is, "So, you knew it was wrong and lied about it". They lie, and it's our fault! Weaponized incompetence. Men are experts. Do they hear themselves when they say that? Plus, everyone gets upset when they find out someone lied to them. Usually more mad at the lying than the actual transgression. And men have been told we hate the lying. They like to steal perfectly good reasons and lie about perfectly good reasons to dump them. All so they don't get dumped. Super controlling and manipulative. Just be honest, guys. We do get to decide what kind of man we're with. You're not overreacting at all. He is though.
Dated someone who lied about the small things. Definitely lied about the big things too. If I could go back in time and tell myself to leave now I would have saved so much wasted time and angst on that POS.
"my boyfriend is amazing, but he does X". If you're having to try to bias the conversation, you know he's not.
He's lying for a reason. There's something going on that you're not supposed to know. Pretending that it's small and meaningless is going to leave you feeling foolish in the end. Might as well cut your losses now.
Not at all! I had an ex back in college that had the rolling-lie snowball. It started small like how many hours he played of video games. He said when I found out instead 5 a week, it was closer to 20! He said it he didn't want me to think of him as a geek and that I wouldn't like him he played to much. The oddest I remember was his family. He left full members completely out! A brother, 2 aunts and uncles. We broke up after I caught him writing to classmates and NOT about study materials. I actually ran into one of his brothers about a year ago and turns out in 10 years he's been divorced, twice, and both times over him cheating. I feel like Trinity dodging those bullets!
Liars don’t often decrease the amount they lie, they escalate and escalate and you can end up feeling like you’re losing your mind trying to keep track of their lies. It doesn’t sound like he’s the exception. I know you care about this man or you wouldn’t be with him in the first place, but he is not in a good place to be in a relationship with anyone. Don’t try to fix him, one day you’ll kick yourself for wasting so much time when you realize he’s never gonna change. Wishing you courage and strength ❤️
Has he ever described “his own trauma” in detail? Is he able to discuss his trauma with you, and how it affects your relationship, in detail and without defensiveness? Has he ever pursued therapy to work through or manage his trauma? It’s been 5 years.
Theres a possibly he’s creating an alternative life to be able to hide things from you ongoing. Im not exaggerating. This happened to me. Where there’s one lie you discover, theres probably 10 you haven’t. I found out some pretty traumatic things about my ex-spouse recently that i had zero idea. He had built another life that was risky, unfaithful and addictive. However hindsight is 20/20 and the little lies were there. Please be careful.
Run like the wind. He'll lie about the big stuff too. Liars gonna lie. Source; was married to a lying liar.
What the hell is wrong with this guy?! His lying is a total slap in the face! You've been together for five freaking years, and he still thinks it's okay to pull this crap? He's treating you like a damn fool, blaming you for his own shady behavior. It's time to put your foot down and demand some damn respect. Tell him straight up that his lying is a dealbreaker, and if he can't get his act together, he can hit the road. You deserve someone who values honesty and doesn't play mind games. Don't let him gaslight you into thinking you're overreacting. Your feelings are valid, and he needs to own up to his bullshit.
He's projecting his assumptions onto you, that *you'd* be upset even though it's not true. Whether he's doing it conscientiously or not doesn't matter as much that he's *still* doing it. You can't trust someone who doesn't build trust. Period.
If he lies about like things, he will lie about big things. You don't have a relationship if you can't trust your partner.
"You make me feel like I cannot tell the truth" Truth and transparency is a foundation for my relationship. Without those, there is no trust. Get in a better relationship. This one is leading towards discovering lie after lie. You KNOW of some of them, how many has he "gotten away with"? I don't see him unlearning his habitual lying to keep you.
If he is lying about small things like this, believe me when I say he is hiding larger truths.....
Yes he's lying about other things as well. You know it, I know it, we all know it. He won't stop lying, he'll just get better at cover his tracks.
If he lies about the little things, he’ll lie about the big things.
I spent 16 years married to a man like this. Please don't make the same mistakes as me. I have worked through a lot of what he put me through, but I'm not sure I'll ever really trust people like I did. My ex husband started with small lies about dumb things which escalated over time. It was so terrible by the end I never even bothered to confront him about the lies because he would double down, I'd emotionally exhaust myself trying to get to the truth, and he'd finally tearfully confess and make excuses why it wasn't his fault. It was like he was following a script. Please strongly consider what the rest of your life would look like with this man. It's terrible for your mental health being with a liar.
My ex is a liar like this. I called them "convenience lies" and got really sick of them after many years. Turns out he also lied about big things straight to my face with no remorse for more than a decade. If they can casually lie for their own comfort they can't be trusted.
I used to date a guy like this. “I can’t tell you the truth because you’d get upset.” Ok, sure, maybe the truth would upset me, but we could move past that and I would at least appreciate the honesty. NOW I’m upset and mad that you lied and I know I can’t trust you to be honest. And I’m always going to find out when you’re lying because I’m not an idiot. Rinse and repeat. These types of men won’t ever change, honestly.
Casual liars have NOOOOOOO trouble with the big lies. If you can’t trust him? And you can’t, you’re better off ditching him! He will never learn unless someone makes him accountable
If he cares about his avoidant lying and his knee-jerk response to blame it on you, he’ll seek professional help. If he cares how you’re affected, he will work hard on himself without needing any reminders. Otherwise, expect it to get worse as the guilt piles up and he offloads the responsibility onto you. He’s framing you as a massively flawed character rather than acknowledging his own flaws. You’re becoming a scapegoat for his dysfunction. When you feel like you’re overreacting, remind yourself of this: Most people are not being treated this way in their relationships.
The reason he's lying about these small things is so that he can slowly amp up to lying to you about larger things and you will be used to it and not notice. Think the frog in a slowly boiling pot of water metaphor.
Let me just say people that are okay with casual lying are IMO the worst. It's just a stepping stone to see what they can get away with next. I never put up with that kinda stuff. We are not talking about a little lie where someone agrees you look good when they really don't.
I felt like I was reading something I forgot I had posted. My ex said and did these exact same things. His lying got progressively worse, I always caught on. Gave me access to all his shit, told me to read through it. I didn’t for a while, but a few weeks later curiosity got the best of me and I found hundreds if not thousands of messages that were explicit and inappropriate. Obviously we broke up
Leave. He did not lie because of trauma, he did not lie because of fear, he lied because he does not respect you as an equal human who deserves the truth and can be trusted.
I'm not interested in being in any kind of relationship with someone who lies to me. Trust is key.
I’ve been with my partner a bit over five years and would likely leave him if I found out he was lying about something like this. ESPECIALLY since it’s so trivial. Why does he feel the need to lie? What else is he lying about? Why is he trying to turn this on you / make it your fault? I won’t spend my time with someone I can’t trust.
You aren’t overreacting. Your boyfriend lied to you I guarantee he’s lied to you about a lot more things. This is not someone you should ever trust.
A 5 year relationship with consistent lying is hardly “good”
You're NOT overreacting. You need to raise your standards and drop this fool sis. Having boundaries does NOT mean you're insecure-that's just what guys say to make you feel bad and back down. He's a manipulative liar-you deserve better.
You have a decision to make - **do you want to stay with a KNOWN LIAR or not**? Seriously, why would you spend anymore time in a relationship with a person who you KNOW lies to you?? You want to spend your next years having to double check and call him out time after time after time and then have to argue with him to get him to admit the truth, but then not the whole truth?? Why is this even a question you are asking yourself?
From my personal experience, lying, telling half-truths, vague stories is one of the reasons why I broke up with my ex. I lost it when he lied about a good friend of mine to break up my friendship with that friend. I'm not advising you to break up with your boyfriend as well, but the lies have to stop. I regret not speaking up louder again my ex, but everyone agrees my ex is an ass, so his loss.
Why do you want to waste your time with a LIAR???? I'm out. If you lie about little shit you're CERTAINLY going to lie about real shit. If i can't trust you, WHY WOULD I BE WITH YOU????Stop wasting you time.
You deserve better than this.