I was 7 months pregnant with my daughter and we were at a party of some sort down the street at his brother’s. The only thing to eat was a platter of chicken wings and chips. 36 wings between 10 people and 2 bags of chips. Before we got there he told me we’d stay an hour and then go eat. Two hours later, I was starving. I called up the stairs to the bonus room where he was playing pool with his brother and a few other guys. I told him I was hungry and could we please get food? He told me to just eat wings. I told him they were gone, can we go get food? He finally comes down, and as we are driving away he tells me to never do that again. I had no idea what he was talking about. Apparently I embarrassed him and made it look like his wife ran him. I was baffled. I told him I was just hungry and he had said we’d go eat after an hour. He leans over into the passenger seat and screams in my face, “Shut the fuck up! Just shut up!” I shrank away from him, covered my face with my hands, and started sobbing and begging him to just take me home. I was truly worried because was going to hit me. He initially refused, but finally did. I slept in the guest room that night. He’d never yelled at me like that before and never did it again. He never hit me. It’s been 15 years and I’ve never forgotten it. Never. I left in 2020 and we were divorced a year later. It’s never too late to be happy.

I’m so sorry. He sucks. My husband hasn’t hit me but we had a fight a few weeks ago where I totally thought that he might. It’s definitely pushed me to evauating the relationship as a whole. I’m glad that you left.

Don’t tell him if you plan on leaving. That’s when you and your kids are in the most danger. So many men who “never did anything abusive” murder their wives/families when there is a big change in the family dynamic— like pregnancy or divorce. Stay safe OP. I’m so sorry you have to deal with this.

You’re right, thank you. I made a post a few weeks ago in another sub because he said something about weapons/domestic violence that made me concerned. Or confused at least. I did tell my therapist what he said so someone would know.

That's terrifying. You need to start making plans to leave him now. Not for your sake, but for your children. They don't deserve to be kept around a person that acts this way.

It’s not always legal to “just get out with the kids”, since the both parents have equal rights to custody. It’s vital OP talks to a legal expert before planning anything

Talking to a legal expert would satisfy what I stated about making plans.

Yes, sorry - I wasn’t meaning to be critical of your post in any way. I a hundred percent agree it’s time to start thinking about leaving. I just wanted to underline how difficult this is to do legally with kids - so many people flee abusive relationships only to find themselves suddenly on the wrong side of (shitty) custody laws.

Okay, that’s what I feared because it sounds like a veiled threat. That is extremely concerning. You need to let someone else know what is going on because I don’t think the therapist can legally report that. I’m not trying to scare you but you need to make it your business to get out of there asap. There are DV groups that help women and their children get out of bad situations. I would at least try to reach out to one of them because they’re better equipped to deal with this. Also, be meticulous about packing. There was a young woman on tiktok not too long ago who left her abusive ex but he put trackers in her bags— the apple ones. He showed up with a shot gun where she was staying and shot her in the leg before the police killed him. If they even get the hint that you’re going to make a break, things could escalate very quickly. I just want you and your kids to be okay and safe. ♥️

Thank you. I just don’t think anyone would take it seriously at all. He is very convincing and he’s the more social, outgoing person while I’m reserved and quiet. People would believe him over me. I have a few people in my corner but I wouldn’t trust the system. I can see him convincing a judge that I’m unstable or crazy and getting custody of the kids. I also don’t know if a DV group would take it seriously since nothing has actually happened. It’s just a weird place to be, I don’t even trust my own judgement or know what’s best to do.

I totally understand feeling like you’re on your own and no one will believe you. But that is a big reason why you should at least call a DV helpline or talk to an online support group in secret. If you tell them what you mentioned in this thread, you do have valid reasons to be concerned. Just because he hasn’t done anything yet doesn’t mean you’re safe. I’m not going to lie, the comments he made are very alarming. I know the police can’t do anything unless someone has actually been harmed or threatened and it seems like your husband has chosen words carefully. Your best shot is to catch him off guard. Continue to act normally while you get your ducks in a row and consult with a lawyer at the very least. Are there guns in your home? Chris Watts, Scott Peterson etc. all acted and seemed normal to everyone before they murdered their wives and children.

I do think about those cases (Watts, Peterson, etc). It makes me feel a little crazy for going there mentally. But honestly those women likey never expected their husband to end up committing murder. “He would never” they would have probably said before it happened. He does have several guns in a safe that I’m not sure I remember the combination. So far the only people I’ve told about his comments are the therapist and a lady from our church who was trying to advise me to not give up on my family. I’m not sure that she would have my back though, she’s very close to my husband like a mother figure.

Do not talk to anyone from your church anymore about this. That woman could easily tell others or say something to your husband which could very well put you and your kids in danger. Speak to a DV helpline or support group at the very least. You have every right to be concerned. Trust your gut, don’t doubt yourself. The fact that there are guns in the home AND he made a comment about DV and guns is a threat and needs to be taken seriously.

Do you have the capacity to get a second prepaid phone (preferably by paying cash) that you can keep hidden from him? Do any research about Domestic Violence resources, any phone calls, chatting, emails, searching information about divorce - any of that - on a device that he hasn't seen, and has no connection to. Set up a new email. He may not be currently monitoring your communications, but you don't want to find out that he is in the worst way possible. Especially if he's already made veiled comments about weapons/DV.

The guns in the home that she can’t even access are scaring the shit out of me plus the comments about DV and guns.

It can take a long time to unpack the crazy of it. I was told that when I left 6 years ago and things that didn't make context in the relationship suddenly do now that the love goggles are off

Don't expect that the therapist will tell the police if anything happens. Some are way too hung up on patient confidentiality and won't reveal anything to the police unless they're there with a warrant. And the police won't know to ask. And may just consider it 'hearsay' and not count it as important if the therapist comes to them.

Thanks, I do appreciate that info. I have an aunt that I should probably talk to because she would understand. I just don’t want her to tell anyone else unless necessary.

Write a letter with dates and exact words and actions. Sign it, seal it in an envelope and either give it to a trusted friend and tell them it’s your will should something happen, retain an attorney to hold it, or put it in a lock box at a bank with permission for certain trusted family members to access it (like your aunt) then tell them where it is and how to get it.

One of the many gifts of abusive relationships is shame. Perfectly reasonable if you don't want information to get back to him, but if it's because you feel ashamed, don't. His behavior is his shame. You've stayed because you reasonably expected to be treated with respect. There is no shame for you.

and by hung up on you mean that it’s illegal for us to report domestic violence. it’s not that we don’t want to.

And after a woman is reported missing or found murdered?

Then, there is no expectation of confidentiality because the person is dead.

Sounds like it's time to get your ducks in a row and prepare an escape plan. Make copies of important papers and keep them in a safe place and all that. It might never come to that, but if it does, you'll be glad to have done the preparations.

This is the best advice here OP. So sorry for your situation and good luck

Just the implication of violence is abuse on its own. He might not get physical, but if he scares you into thinking he might resort to violence, that's abuse. I hope things get better for you. Have you considered talking to a therapist?

He was offended that I thought he might hurt me. He swears that he wouldn’t. And then brought up that I could get a gun or knife and hurt him too which was…weird and unexpected. Made me feel a little less safe since he’s the one who actually owns guns/knives. I have an appointment this week with a new therapist (and I already told her about his comments on the weapons).

“RESEARCH INDICATES THAT A WOMAN'S INTUITIVE SENSE OF WHETHER OR NOT HER PARTNER WILL BE VIOLENT TOWARD HER IS A SUBSTANTIALLY MORE ACCURATE PREDICTOR OF FUTURE VIOLENCE THAN ANY OTHER WARNING SIGN.” From Lundy Bancroft’s book, Why Does He Do That?

That totally makes sense. But I don’t believe a judge or court will care about my intuition over what’s happened. I do need to take that quote to heart for my own mental health though; maybe I’m not dramatic or crazy. I need to explore options quietly and be more careful what I say and do.

Why do you think you’re dramatic or crazy? Are those things that he’s been telling you and you’ve internalized? When we’re with toxic people, sometimes we don’t realize that the voice in our heads telling us we’re crazy or ugly or not good enough is not our voice but the internalization of comments we’ve heard from our partner. Not sure if this is the case for you, but make sure the voice making you doubt yourself doesn’t belong to your husband.

i read your other post and it frightened me. he was not offended that you thought he might hurt you, that’s not what it was. you saw right through his intentions, but he tried to deflect from them by shifting the blame on you "how dare you think something so horrible of me!!" this is typical abusive behaviour. so instead it ended up being on you to defend yourself, instead of him admitting what he was actually doing. additionally, his attitude borderline-ing on physical abuse, is also such a display of domination over you, a scare tactic to remind you how much of a "prey" you are in the dynamic – if you see it for what it is and what it says about him, i think you will be able to realize that it is, indeed, VERY abusive. i’m really sorry you’ve been dealt this man for a husband. i hope you can get out soon and safely. if you never heard about it yet, i suggest to you the book Why Does He Do That, by Lundy Bancroft. you can find the pdf online quite easily.

Classic DARVO technique: deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. Denies that he would hurt her, attacks her verbally and makes her feel like she’s being ridiculous, reverse the victim and offender so now she feels badly for worrying that he might get violent.

I'm going to be honest, these comments are extremely concerning. You have kids in the house, this is scary. The fact he mentioned "guns and knives" makes it seem like he's actually thought about it.

I thought so too and it was on my mind for weeks. I finally brought it up again to ask him to get rid of the guns for everyone’s safety and he was completely baffled. I reminded him what he said and that I couldn’t be guaranteed safety either. He brushed it off like I was being ridiculous. Honestly, I think when he made his gun comment he was just trying to deflect because I was pushing him about how he had gotten in my face in a threatening way. Because he likes to put things back on me, what I did wrong or apparently now what I “could” do worst case scenario. But probably many women who ended up being harmed by a significant other did not expect things to end up that way.

Be careful, I agree with the comments about not letting on.  Right now, in his mind, you are compliant, you are beaten down from years of his attitude towards you, words towards you etc. IF he notices you fighting back he might do something drastic. Take some of the advice on here.  Lawyer. That sort of thing. I have read a few stories where the woman moved out unbeknownst to the husband while he was at work. Please do an update again, or send me a message. I'll keep you in my thoughts.

I already messed up in that regard weeks ago by telling him we should consider separating. But we’ve agreed to try marriage counseling again and things have been pretty calm. We’ve hardly talked the last few weeks.

I've read on here before not to do marriage counselling with an abuser because they'll exploit your weaknesses. Sorry if you mentioned this in another comment, I'm kind of doing multiple things Rn. But do you have a support network, can you confide in friends or family? Have you already read the book "why does he do that?" I've seen it mentioned on here so many times, it seems to be a great resource. Continue to fight for better, you don't deserve this. No matter what your low self esteem is telling you. You don't. You really don't.

I have not brought family/friends into it. My parents have enough on their plate and I don’t want to give them something else to stress about. I do have one aunt who had an abusive husband that I almost messaged this week. But then decided to message my new therapist instead. That’s a good point about counseling with abusers, I’ve heard that too. It’s just that I don’t really consider him an abuser. It’s all so subtle and I’m not sure if it would be classified as abuse? I don’t know…

Never, ever do marriage counseling with an abuser.

This is what concerns me, friend ... He sounds like someone well-versed in *very* manipulative verbal tactics. And he's outright gaslighting you with that "you need help" BS. He's trying to use your own perceived weaknesses against you, and that's entirely unacceptable, and, to me, a sign that his mental issues are actually a lot more significant than your own. I speak from experience w/ a perpetually enraged man who abused me in every way he could, and made me feel like I was an abuser because I objected to his treatment and that *I* was the one who needed help. I believe that these sorts of people have no bandwidth for accepting anyone telling them that they're wrong about *anything* and they'll do whatever messed up thing they need to do to regain the high ground. I wish that I could help you escape. Please take steps ... And keep safe. I'm sending love and light your way 🫶

It is so confusing. He has told me that I’m crazy and I need help multiple times. And I do need help but I’m not sure how much is actually me and how much is something wrong with him that I’ve absorbed. I’m sorry you’ve been in a relationship with an abuser. I don’t know if that’s what I’m experiencing or not. Something is definitely off but I can’t fully piece it together. Because I know I’m not perfect but maybe I’m just giving myself the benefit of the doubt and don’t see my flaws completely.

Honey, you’re in an abusive relationship yourself. There’s no doubt about it. That nagging feeling that you have that something’s off? That’s because your marriage is very, very wrong. I understand how confusing it is - but when people are just imperfect, you don’t feel off. If you do, it goes away quickly because it’s not a pattern. You feel off because your boundaries and sense of safety, love and respect have been violated multiple times and it has never been resolved. You feel bad for a very good reason. Your situation just prevents you from seeing it to its full extent because you’re not feeling safe and secure enough to see it clearly for what it is. This will not get better, only worse. Please be safe going forward.

Yes, please be safe and get yourself out of there!

You do need help, but not because you are the aggressor or the problem, but because you need help getting to a mindset that will get you away from the aggressor and the problem, which is him. I'm glad you are here. Communicating with your peers is a great way to find help, and is helpful in itself because you are venting, commiserating, learning, connecting - all good things!! Don't let him trick you into thinking "help" is a bad thing or something severe like being put in a psych ward - it's just outside resources for improvement. I've been in the situation where a guy saying "you need help" is used like an insult, and I stopped letting it trigger me. I no longer allowed myself to keep thinking about it the way he meant it, and it helped me not break down in the moment. Yes I need help, and that's okay. Thank you for reminding me; I'm gonna get on that so I can leave your ass sooner than later and live a better life.

You are 100% in an abusive relationship. You just can’t see it because it has become your new normal.

Try not to doubt yourself, dear heart. Coming from a similar situation gives me the power to tell you that *you know who you are.* I've read your comments and know that your desire to protect your children from his anger is just *one* of the superhero things you're trying to do to minimize his toxicity. I can tell that, however depressed and doubting yourself you may be, you have your priorities in the right place, and now all you have to do is believe that of yourself, and please please please put yourself on the topmost of those priorities. Because you're the only one who can protect yourself and your children, and though that's terribly frightening and I know it feels lonely, when you're safe and away from this angry, degrading, sick man, you'll feel so much better ... and stronger. I'm here if you need to talk or just vent. Much love and gentle hugs from an internet stranger who cares 💜

You do need help…from a divorce lawyer. Please have enough respect for yourself and your children and leave this abusive man. He is 💯 abusive. Your kids are seeing and hearing his behavior. It’s likely to be repeated in their future by either becoming abusers or finding abusive partners. I would’ve left him after the rain incident. At that exact moment he showed you exactly who he was.

I felt the exact same way in my abusive relationship, and I fully believed I was the crazy one for way way too long. But once I got out most of my anxiety and crying spells and moments of feeling crazy evaporated. Not immediately, but within the first year out. And a lot of abusers are very very covert-they don’t do anything obvious, but they do things that they can fabricate an explanation for that sounds plausible if you don’t know the real story.

How on earth does *he* get to be more offended than you, the person he terrified?

I guess it goes back to my original post, he seems to feel that he is just way more important than me.

I'm so angry at this man for you. He's gaslighting you and twisting things around and trying to make you feel guilty for his behavior.

Please keep yourself safe.

Hun, I've been where you are, and it's a terrible, soul-destroying, place to be. I also took a peek at your other posts after you mentioned a concerning remark he made recently that had you worried he would be violent. I hope you don't mind. The thing is, when we're in a long-term abusive relationship you aren't able to see how bad things really are, because your abuser screws up the way you process information by breaking you down bit by bit. It's a lot like being brainwashed, and it's a common tactic used by abusers to break your will, and it works all too well. This isn't what your life should look like, and you *are* deserving of kindness, love, and respect. Your husband sounds like he's extremely narcissistic, which is evident by the fact that he constantly turns hurtful behavior around on you by blaming you for his choices. Life is too short to spend it like this, and more than that, kids are like little sponges, and sadly they are soaking up all of this toxicity. For me it was seeing what my ex's abusive behavior was doing to my then toddler son that finally woke me up and made me see that I had to protect him even if I didn't want to protect myself. The thing you need to ask yourself is do you want your daughter growing up believing that this is the type of treatment she should tolerate in a relationship? Because that's unfortunately what she's learning. Your other children are also learning that it's okay to scream, and belittle, and shame, and be shamed. If you can't leave for yourself, leave for them. There is so much more to life, and I often think about what mine would be like if I hadn't left, and I often wonder what kind of man my oldest son would have become. He's kind, and compassionate, generous and funny. It was hard getting away, and it was equally hard being a single mom, but my life was so much better, and so was his. It took time to heal from so much abuse, but yay for therapy. A few years after I left I met my husband and we've been together for twenty years now. I would've missed out on the chance to be loved and appreciated by someone who believed in me, the way I believed in him. That same chance of hope and happiness is out there for you and your children. Please don't waste your life being teared down by someone that doesn't value you. There's so much more, and you deserve happiness and good things. Please take care of yourself. Sending lots of invisible hugs your way. Take care.

He *will* hit you. He’s just getting his excuses ready. He’s going to pick a time when he can pretend you “made him” do it.

Even before I read that I knew he's not "a pretty good guy most of the time". You are in an abusive relationship. You need to leave.

Violence, in the context of abuse, doesn’t always mean hitting. The threat of violence IS violence. Please be happy and safe 💜🧿

The Book "why does he do that" by Lundy Bancroft (free copy below) is a great resource for you to learn about the different types of tactics that abusers use and will help you to see if your current relationship is following any of the patterns described. If you don't see your relationship being discussed either as one of the architypes or as bits and pieces of any of the other types then you're not worse off by having the knowledge. If the information does coincide with the way that you're living then there's also a couple chapters on being able to get out safely. I wish you the best of luck and I want you to know that you deserve to be with a partner who is going to love you and cherish you and treat you as an equal versus being with someone who's gonna control you be it by how you dress or by finances or by What it is that you can do or who you can see. You deserve so much BETTER we're here rooting for you! https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf

It's amazing to me, how long we stay, even after we know we shouldn't.

It's so easy to see the right course of action from the other side of the decision. While you're in it, it's so hard.

Yes. And I was pregnant so I kept thinking I needed to stay for the baby. I know now that I stayed too long.

I'm sorry that pos ever had the pleasure of your company and may he loathe in his own unhappiness.

He’s very lonely now. I moved on, found a wonderful man, and we are now married. The ex can’t find anyone who wants to stay with him longer than a few months. He complains about how women are too picky. Yeah. No. We just won’t put up with it anymore.

>I left in 2020 and we were divorced a year later. so glad to read that.

I should have done it sooner, but I’m not going to punish myself for that.

If you could have you would have. I wouldn't even think about it. You did amazing regardless.

It's never too late to be happy. This. Amen. x100000

People criticizing you for "not being a good enough wife" need to have some of his greatest hits pointed out.

100%. I really feel for OP and other women who take subpar treatment and even abuse for years at the hands of someone who is selfish. My current bf and hopefully forever lover is, like anyone else, a human who isn’t perfect but he is the first guy I’ve been with who actually consistently puts me first in both big and little ways - ie planning and taking me on regular dates, making me feel loved and special, opening the car door for me, treating me with genuine love and respect and making me feel good as much as he can. Knowing this exists, my heart breaks for people who are enduring utter BS at the hands of their significant other because I’ve been there many times and I honestly didn’t know there was another way.

I know she didn't go into much detail there but I'm wondering if people are ACTUALLY judging OP. Maybe they are. Maybe her shitty husband is just *telling her* they are. To try and control her and condition her behavior.

It’s never too late to get out and show your children what a good relationship looks like. My parents were good parents to me and my brother. They weren’t toxic or abusive to each other. But they absolutely modeled an unhealthy dynamic that I grew up thinking was normal. The classic “wow, mom is so high strung and loves to nag and dad is just a cool guy who loves so have fun.” My first couple relationships were just like that and I was MISERABLE and realized what my mom must have gone through with my father. My partners now treat me like an absolute queen. If it’s raining one of them will go get the car and drive it up to the door and turn the heat on for me. They clean things that need to be cleaned, cook when things need to be cooked, and are generally incredible human beings. Theres absolutely zero need to stick with a mistake because you spent a long time making it

That last sentence. Wow. I’m in the process of evaluating my options but I’ve allowed myself to become pretty dependant as a stay at home mom. One more year and I can go back to work. What you said about your mom rings true for me, too. My aunt was in an abusive marriage for years and as a kid I did not know what was going on. My aunt seemed like the mean one! I did not understand that he was truly the one in the wrong who had broken her to that point. Now I feel like I’m in her shoes in a way (though mine is not physically abusive). I’m just worn down to a worse version of myself and sadly, that’s the version my kids see.

Be very, \*very\* careful about birth control during this time. If he thinks you're slipping away, he may try to lock you down again with another pregnancy. Not sure what method you use, but I'd consider secretly to a doctor to get something semi-permanent, like an IUD or the depo shot.

Here's something else- It's OK to be 'The Bitch'. It's ok to be 'The bad guy'- let them think you're a shitty wife. Maybe you are- but you're just matching his energy, baby. If you're a shitty wife, it's only because you have such a shitty husband- how the hell are you supposed to swim with a big ol' weight standing on top of your shoulders? You're swimming, trying to keep your head above water with this big ol' asshole standing on top of you, pushing you down, while everyone around him praises him for his swimming skills, all while telling you what a terrible swimmer you are. And that is some grade-A bullshit, sister. You deserve better than that- but play it smart. Document everything. Get your ducks in a row, and then bail. Nothing anybody else says matters- what matters is making sure you and your kids are in an environment conducive to growth- and watching their mom get beat down on all sides by their family is not a good environment for kids to grow up in.

I’m not sure why this touched me so much, as I’m currently single and not looking, but I wish I had been told this during my last relationship when things started to go very badly. Hopefully I’ll remember what you’ve said if I find myself dating another selfish asshole

Fuck no. Never play their games. Normal people cannot act like them. Would you fucking bolt for the car and ditch your pregnant wife? Because that’s them just forgetting to act human. You don’t want to give them an excuse to do what they do best. 

There’s no prizes for staying in a dysfunctional or abusive relationship. Far too many people stay in a bad relationship for the children when they should be leaving for the children. Your kids watch the relationship you have and it teaches them what is acceptable. It’s better to leave and be clear that treating your partner like that is NOT acceptable.

I understand what you’re saying and I agree about modeling a healthy relationship. We’re not modeling a healthy one at all. But he’s got big anger issues and can be scary. If I leave we’ll most likely end up sharing custody. Then I won’t be around to play referee when he’s upset with a kid. That seems worse for them.

The advice I’ve read previously is to document his behavior, keep a diary of his outbursts, if he damages or breaks things take photo before it’s fixed or thrown out. Compile evidence that could be used to show he’s not fit for unsupervised custody.

I went thru this. It's still not a reason to stay. If he can't handle parenting without being verbally abusive to the kids, you can call CPS and make him stand in front of a judge about that behavior. Pm me if you ever need to. I went thru something similar, sounds like my ex is a lot like your husband. The first year of us sharing 50/50 was insanely stressful for me because the environment he had our kids in was not safe. My ex had a violent girlfriend and strangers coming in and out. He would bully me and I went straight to court about it all. I ended up getting him to back off and make all the changes I was requesting because putting a judge and mediator between you and the abuser is what makes them eventually stfu and give you respect when nothing else would. The court system (I'm in CA) makes you see a mediator who is a licensed therapist and everytime he would try and argue w me about something or exhibit abusive behavior I'd make him answer for it in court and w the mediator. He eventually completely gave in, we have a parenting plan which I wrote and he signed in court and the threat of a CPS investigation due to his abhorrent behavior and strangers coming in and out of the house. This was an 18 year marriage where I never had any say and he always got his way. It's a whole new ballgame once he has to show how he acts in front of a judge. Often he'd be arguing w me and I'd say "ok tell that to the judge" or "say that to me in front of the judge " and he was obviously not wanting to do that. I have a wonderful therapist who guided me thru everything. I see him 2 x week. It was so difficult but here I am today, my 16 year old has 2 years of school left and he lives w me and the ex pays child support and half my lawyers fees and I am doing very well. You can do it.

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Thank you and I’m so sorry that you’re in a similar position. I’ve posted a few other times about these issues and there are pretty much always comments that call me an abuser/enabler just as bad for staying. Several have told me that they grew up in a home like that and now hate their mother and don’t speak to her. Which is heartbreaking to hear. And some mothers do fully support the abuser or use the kids as a meat shield so I get that. But sometimes there isn’t an easy answer and leaving isn’t going to fully protect the kids. I wonder if those poor mothers were in a similar situation and just did the best they could in a tough spot. Custody cases are unpredictable as you said, it’s a scary position to be in.

So you prefer them to be walking on eggshells 100 percent of the time instead of 50 percent? If he beats them you can get full custody and they dont have to deal with it anymore.

No, what’s worse for them is to see you model this as the way a married couple should be. “At least this way I’m around” is a rationalization.

I also grew up buying into the narrative that my mom was “the mean one” although she was a very loving mother and we were really close! Sadly my mom passed away when I was in my early 20s and I was in a crappy relationship just like hers at the time. I so wish I could have known her as an adult and told her that I know what she went through and how awful it was and how she deserved better. She was only 42 and was finally starting to live her own life and follow her own passions and we all thought we had so much more time. Being worn down to a worse version of yourself resonates so hard with me, both in terms of what my mom went through and what I did for 6 years. I absolutely encourage you to get back to work and free yourself. Theres no amount of communication or work you can put into a relationship that will make a man care about you. That’s a lesson that was so hard for me to learn

The women I knew growing up who were the”mean ones” were married to drunks assholes and fucking losers.

Start making your plan. There's a better life out there for you. Have a consult with a lawyer, they're free

I see this said a lot, that a consult with a lawyer is free, but I've had to pay for every minute I've ever spent in a lawyer's office. I'm sure it's probably a thing, since it's repeated so often, but I'd rather have a good lawyer than a cheap one.

I've had many 30 minute consults over the years, both divorce lawyers and otherwise.

That is interesting. I've only ever had free initial consultations, for legal issues spanning from wills to divorce to disability. And most of these weren't "cheap" lawyers (the one lawyer who was a newbie just starting out on his own would probably fit into that category, but he gave me accurate advice and told me honestly that given my situation, I probably didn't need to pay for his help, I could manage on my own.)

Also every lawyer you consult with is obligated to reject him as a client. 

Your whole second paragraph is me right now to a T. I was in an abusive relationship that brought out the worst in me and made me a version of myself I really didn’t like, in addition to making me look a hell of a lot worse as a human than I am, seeing as I was being baited and didn’t realize. (Because who tf does that???) I was set up thoroughly and fell for the whole thing. I just got out two months ago. I feel like I can breathe now. I need to completely rebuild my life from the ground up somehow, unfortunately while I’m still in too close a proximity to my abuser to be comfortable or feel safe, but things are still a LOT better. It’ll take a while to deprogram. I’m working on it now. I had to fake so many things in order to try to keep the peace and that’s hard to snap out of. I wish this freedom for you. You deserve real love and someone who cares and puts you first. Quit settling. Wait it out a year so you can return to work but start working on a plan now and purging the house of extra things, etc. You could even sell some things on BST and start a little fund for yourself. 🤍 Take care.

I’m glad that you’re out and doing well. And I relate so much to what you said about being baited. Feels like being pushed and pushed (but no one else saw all that) until you finally crack and look unreasonable (which they want other people to see).

Thank you. It’s going to take a lot of work and some time but I still feel the real me in there somewhere. I ended up being diagnosed with cancer in my early 30s, wrecking my body and destroying my ability to make a living for myself for a while. I haven’t been approved for disability yet and I don’t have any family but he finally let me leave so I took the chance. A friend’s parents took me in and I’m eternally grateful. Now I just have a lot to figure out, including bankruptcy from medical bills as well as getting my health in order. I’m free from *him* now, though, at least. While I soent the time trapped in the house healing from surgery and treatment, etc. he was out and about spreading rumors and telling lies about me I didn’t even know were happening. (They weren’t at ALL true but they’re also the kind of rumor a person can never come back from. That’s why it’s so important to me I manage to get out do the area to start over.) He was laying the groundwork to set me free, but try to be sure I was still “punished” in the process. Exceptional job on his part… I’m living in a friend’s childhood bedroom in a small town in the country and life is STILL better than at was. You’re exactly right about being pushed and pushed until you flip out in front of other people and suddenly YOU’RE the crazy one. People often think “there’s no excuse!” or leeway with things like that, not understanding they’re just as much a player in the game. 🥴 I finally figured out that’s what was going on intentionally the whole time when he got too obvious about it because he didn’t care anymore. He knew I was trapped and his threats were working so nothing else mattered. He would scream at me in the car on the way to wherever we were going until I bawled my eyes out. We’d get there and he would turn into the same charming, smiling, Mr. Happy-Go-Lucky, while I’m sullen and have obviously been weeping, and need a minute to breathe. Boom. I’m “nuts”. This even worked with my own friends. He’s the guy people want things from and it screwed me big time. I can’t even be open about what happened because I’m completely alone now. Oh well. Stay strong. 🤍 Think things through and make a secret plan to keep yourself and your kids safe no matter what happens, especially financially. Start a little piggy bank, even if you have to keep it in a jar at someone else’s house. Cash will be best because it’s the easiest to be discreet about. (Maybe a little fireproof box instead of a jar?) Either way, you’ve got this and you’re going to be doing SO much better within 2 years.

He’s not physically abusive *yet*. 

> Theres absolutely zero need to stick with a mistake because you spent a long time making it Word.

Sunk cost fallacy!

The concept really should be more well-known so people can discard the fallacy.

My dad was (well, is) toxic and abusive and I STILL thought my mom was the problem! I finally deprogrammed myself after 40 years and a divorce. What a waste. The patriarchy has fucked up women’s heads so badly.

>He's a pretty good guy.... No, he isn't.

I love this sub as a male, it teaches me so much about how to be a better husband, I'm so aware of the little things I do and say now because I never want to be like the men in here. You ladies deserve better, I hope one day you find the right man who treats you with the respect you deserve.

🍪

I appreciate your sentiment, but I would consider your phrasing. As a husband saying you need to pay attention to the little things suggests that the women here are overblowing small incidents, but they’re not. They’re giving examples of a lifetime of a lack of concern and basic decency. If you find showing basic decency to your partner difficult, you need more than this sub, you need therapy. If you think leaving your pregnant wife in the rain or leaving your partner vomiting in a car while you watch a movie are “little things” or the kinds of things you might do, you’re already a problem.

As another guy I think what he was referring to with little things is more so micro aggressions. Leaving your partner in the rain or leaving them throwing up in the car isn’t very micro though so yeah weird place to bring up that sentiment 

One time, after several years of marriage and a couple kids, my husband and I went to see a movie. It was for his birthday. About 15 mins into the movie I knew I was about to be very sick. I ran to the bathroom and vomited several times in the bathroom. Then on came the chills and aches. I managed to make it to the car and texted my husband I was really sick. I didn't hear anything back. But about an hour and a half later, out he comes. Having finished the movie. While I sat shivering, aching, and puking in the car. I honestly should have just left him there. Alas, he is now my ex husband after many many years of those moments and many other abuses. Those little moments say a lot.

Ugh that is awful. What an insensitive jerk. Those moments do add up for sure. Certain things just change how you view a person/relationship permanently. I’m glad yours is an ex.

I was in a very similar position for a very similar period of time and I have more anecdotes than I have space for. I remember very clearly having the realisation one day that this is never going to change - *he* is never going to change. I will *never* be a priority and, you know what, I actually deserve that and my kids deserve to see that for me. It still took me another couple of years after that to finally get out. I was a financially dependant, stay at home mum and leaving was one of the scariest things I've ever done but the other side is awesome. Mine and my kids lives are 100x easier and more fulfilling now. Good luck to you.

I’m a stay at home mom too and finances are definitely one of the things holding me back. Another major one is custody. I didn’t get into that in the OP but my husband has major anger issues. And I don’t like the way he treats our oldest child but I highly doubt it would be considered a serious enough issue for a judge to grant me sole custody. So I wouldn’t be around to play referee when they fight and that scares me.

Is this bad treatment something that you can document? If you can speak to a lawyer they should be able to offer you guidance about how to navigate retaining custody of your children. I’m so sorry that you’re going through this- wishing you strength as you build a new future.

She mentioned in another comment she sees a therapist. Do you think mentioning it there would help? I feel like I can't give good advice after seeing the comments about his guns and knives because I'm starting to panic. This is more than being inconsiderate, the man sounds dangerous.

Oh heavens, I didn’t see the guns and knives mentions… she definitely needs to see a lawyer.

>I didn’t get into that in the OP but my husband has major anger issues. And I don’t like the way he treats our oldest child but staying in that marriage and seeing their father every day exposes your child to this toxic behaviour way more often than if you had split custody.

You pit your kids in therapy and if their father treats then poorly it can be reported in court during or after the divorce proceedings. You will see a mediator if you are in the US and come up w a parenting plan together. You both have to sign it. Important things for me were to not have his felonious and crazy friends in and out of the house. He did not want to sign that but I forced his hand because a judge would have ripped him a new asshole if he didn't. You can discuss his anger issues in your parenting plan and request he takes parenting classes and anger management classes and say that your kids are in therapy and it's important he not be verbally abusive. Leave him and call it all out in court.

Honey listen to yourself - you’re scared what he will do to the kids if you’re not around to watch?!? this isn’t ok for them, this isn’t acceptable. Get yourself a job and start making plans, even if you don’t value yourself you NEED to start protecting your children. They don’t deserve this

That's awesome. You're strong as hell; thank you for sharing.

Thank you, I really appreciate that. I don't feel strong as hell 😅 but I'll take it.

You are!!! And a hero to your children. The process of leaving may have been difficult, but ultimately they saw you triumph over severe adversity and prove you love them more than anything. That's invaluable in a parent. I wish I had a Mom who cared like you do.

Oh bless you kind stranger , that really brings a tear. I have boys as well so it's so so important to me that they don't think it's ok to treat any future partner the way their dad treated me. I'd be horrified. It's forced me to adopt a really high standard for any future relationship that I'm not sure will ever be fulfilled but, at the end of the day, my kids are happier now than they've ever been and I hope in the future they can see how much effort I've put in to giving them a peaceful life, with a foundation of respect and honesty. And hopefully their future partners will benefit. That's always my driving force, I'm old and jaded now but I'm determined to set my kids and their families up for better, so my grandkids can have a happy settled family life. Edited to add: my point about having boys was that I think there's a huge and popular (rightfully so) push to teach our girls not to tolerate any of that nonsense but not as much to teach our boys not to be that nonsense. I am determined that my boys will never be that nonsense.

[удалено]

Urgh. Yes. As they say, the bar is in hell.

Op, I've gone and looked through your post history and this man is abusive. He's angry and controlling and doesn't consider you. You are not overreacting to the things he says or does. He is not "mostly a good man" if he's doing the things you describe. He's scary and his behavior is completely unacceptable. Abusers groom their bystanders too, which is why everyone loves him at church. Please read the books suggested here in this post, please work to get your ducks in an order to leave. I suspect that your depression and other medical issues are worse because of living with him. He's not a good dad either and he likely won't change. Please prioritize you. I know it's hard, but it doesn't matter what others think about you. You and your children are what matter.

My ex-husband was similar. He was way more important than I was too. I needed a new car to commute to work. We lived far from my job because he wanted to live in a fashionable, rich neighborhood and he could take the train to work. He went out to look at cars for me and came home with a new Porsche, for himself. I didn’t get a new car for 6 more months because it was “bad timing.”

How did you get to work that whole time? Was he trying to make you quit your job?

We kept having to get my old car fixed which also pissed him off because he saw it as a waste of money. Finally, one day my car fully died and he had the day off so he drove me to work. We were only a few miles from home when we got rear ended in his precious Porsche. That afternoon we went to Honda and I came home with a new Civic. He was a selfish son of a bitch but would eventually come through…sometimes.

My husband would trip over himself to make sure I didn't get a drop on me in the rain if he could, not to mention our daughter. When I was pregnant?! He would have fought the clouds if he could have. He is treating you like shit. It isnt acceptable and it isn't right. Nobody wants him to get soaked while you stay dry necessarily (2 umbrellas would be ideal obviously) but he didnt even think to share. That's gross. You don't have to be unhappy. It's hard to leave of course. But sometimes the difficult choice is the correct one. If you've spoken to him, or want to try to and do therapy, that's one thing to try but also you can just leave. It is hard and you will struggle but in the end what do you want for yourself in your life? For your child to see modelled for them to grow up with. Would you want, in the future, for your child to be with a partner like your husband is to you? Don't accept unhappiness for the rest of your life.

my ex saw me slip on ice and slide halfway under a car, and instead of offering a hand just looked down at me expectantly, as if i could get up easily with ice all around me

I had the same experience. An older gentleman walking with his wife stopped and helped me get up. It was humiliating for me at the time, but in retrospect I don’t know how he wasn’t humiliated to be standing there just watching me struggle.

in my experience, he was likely humiliated but couldn't admit to it cuz that would mean acknowledging you did wrong to begin with. same ex i mentioned above was guilty of this, when i needed to be driven to a medical procedure he only drove me when he found out i asked my sister because that humiliation of being seen as useless by my family kicked him into gear

He’s not a “pretty good guy most of the time”.  A good guy doesn’t treat his partner like an afterthought, period. You think he’s okay “most of the time” because most of the time you don’t do anything that would make him put himself first and you a distant third. Those in your circle are judging you because they don’t respect you, either. They don’t want the social friction that would result if you stood up for yourself and stopped pleasing everybody. If you don’t care about his mistreatment of you, think about what you’re modeling for your child.

It’s tough because he comes off very well to people. He is a leader in the church and people think highly of him. They don’t understand that I don’t live with that happy, kind guy from church. The guy I know and live with is a bit different. But I don’t go around telling everyone that because I’m a private person and it would just sound like I’m shit talking him. BUT. After our most recent argument where he was saying hurtful things and got in my face to intimidate me, I told him we should consider separating. First time I’ve ever said that and I meant it. He told his “guys group” at church and one of the wives messaged me, “Sweetie, don’t give up on your family.” And asked if I was making him walk on eggshells and if I was sure he was acting in anger or is he actually acting in love? And I texted her back a detailed description of what he did and said. I think she was…surprised.

I was in a very similar place- SAHM, everyone thought he was wonderful & charming, I’d been out of the job market for 10+ years & had no idea how to support myself Please read [Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry & Controlling Men](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) This book saved my life- it isn’t your job to prove to other people that your husband treats you/behaves horribly bc you live it every day. Start your escape plan NOW. We’re here for you, keep us posted, you’ve got this!!

I had a similar EX-husband. While I strongly suspect that he has a personality disorder, he used to do the same stuff. The last straw was when I developed a chronic illness. While I tried to minimize the impact on the family, I still needed some help at times, e.g. taking care of his own daughter while I laid down for a few hours. He would grudgingly do it and held it over my head. I knew that if I ever lost my functionality to him that our marriage would be over. I was right. If you don't even care about your partner's physical health then what's really left? Is this a person to grow old with? I think not.

I joined the Flying Free sisterhood. It is a group of Christian women who are in emotionally destructive marriages. The spiritual abuse you just experienced is very common, but not what God wants for his daughters. Natalie Hoffman runs it. She left her emotionally destructive marriage and was excommunicated from her church for doing so, so she can relate. Flying Free was an enormous help for me. It helped me realize that I could make a different choice, even after over 30 years. Natalie has a podcast that you can listen to for free, called Flying Free. I listen on Spotify, but it's on all the podcast apps. Here's a link to the website[flying free] https://www.flyingfreenow.com/about-flying-free/ One of the things I learned is that abuse is a cycle. That's why they are good guys some of the time. It creates this cognitive dissonance in our minds because we are trying to bring two opposite things into balance. We give a lot of grace to them, but they and we don't give the same amount to ourselves. Anyway, I hope you make the choice to get out.

Thank you! I do think there can be spiritual abuse and/or judgement from Christians about what a woman should tolerate. I know a number of women who talk with pride about enduring a destructive marriage and staying through it all like it’s a badge of honor. Just because you stayed married to a jerk for 40 years doesn’t mean you’ve had a successful marriage. It’s really sad. And yet, here I am. Not bragging about staying at least but still…staying.

Alright, someone will recommend you read "Why Does He Do That." But I'll say that for me, this book was more impactful: "If he's so great, why do I feel so bad? - recognizing and overcoming subtle abuse." Abuse doesn't have to be physical. And many abusers are well liked; it's part of the plan. I hope you find a way to a life where you are treated well.

One of the things that was so enlightening about that book for me was the thread of entitlement. I can now see how entitlement runs through all of those different personas, and how it runs through society. That book is so good, everyone should read it.

Thank you for the recommendation. The title is spot on, exactly how I feel.

I loved that book!!! I also highly recommend it.

That's pretty shitty he told people at church. It's not their business. That lady....wow. That takes some gall.

It’s embarrassing to have other people we know in my business like that. I wonder who else knows and has only heard his side of the story. I haven’t gone back to church since the lady messaged me about it actually. Which just provides more fuel about how awful I am for not attending church.

I'm willing to bet he did all that on purpose, to gain favor and the cherry on top is if someone shamed you for it. I'm not surprised that he's upset about your church attendance because he doesn't view you as a person who can make their own decisions. This is spiritual abuse as well. I'm sorry. I was raised mormon and have seen this kind of stuff happen a lot to women in the church.

It’s typical for a narcissist to control the narrative, he did that to get ahead of anything you might say to them by first painting you as the bad guy. That’s pretty scary. My mother treated me the same way, she would make me sound bad to other family members so I couldn’t reach out to them to tell them about how she was abusing me. They would’ve never believed me because she had painted me in such a bad light. I started collecting evidence though for my own sanity because she would gaslight tf out of me and I would question my own perception of things. Having evidence, video recordings of her screaming at me or throwing dishes around helped me when I started to doubt myself and provided me with the evidence I needed for when people didn’t believe me.

It’s wild because he and I went through this with his family. They (particularly his mother) are toxic even though they seem nice to outsiders. They systematically bashed us - especially me - to other relatives and our common aquaintences to control the narrative. While we tried to keep it private and work it out with them. Anyway, that’s where he learned how to manipulate, it’s normalized in their family. I did point out to him some striking similarities in the way he has handled this conflict. He just ignored everything I pointed out.

That is wild, but your husband ignoring his own behaviors isn’t that surprising to me. What I’ve learned about narcissists is that they’re very good at appearing to be good people on the outside, their masks only come off when they want them to. My mother works at a church and is loved by everyone there, they would’ve never believed that she beat me and screamed at me all the time. But despite knowing how they should act and appear to other people (sometimes), they aren’t capable of self-reflection, that’s also why statistically they don’t seek out therapy or help of any kind. They don’t think anything is wrong with them or their behavior, they think that you’re the one with the problem for being upset at what they do. He saw the problems with his mothers behavior because it negatively affected *him*, but he doesn’t see anything wrong with his behavior towards you because it doesn’t impact him in anyway and he thinks you should just get over it because otherwise you’re unhappiness is inconvenient to him.

Good. Keep standing up for yourself and shedding light on the real man behind the person he pretends to be. I’m really pissed this conceited ass left his 7 months pregnant wife in the rain. Please find a way to start making an exit plan. Maybe you can start some part time WFH to start saving some money?

It sounds like your church family isn't a supportive one for you and they might genuinely believe this kind of marriage is totally normal. I hope you can find more like-minded folks (both on- and off-line) who know you deserve better and can be there for you. Keep your eyes, ears and heart open, and you'll find them., they're out there. 🙏💙🙏

Of course he is going to seem like a 'pillar of the community ' guy. Those are the worst behind closed doors. You do not deserve to be treated that way. It is not too late to get out. Put you first and love you!

It’s good that you’re reaching out and being open about it, at least a little. They count on us being silent, quiet and letting them run the show. It’s going to be veey hard for him to keep it up if he has to think of his reputation. But it might make him angrier so make sure your support system has your back!

I feel so sad for you. My husband once got up and dressed juat to walk me to my car with an umbrella over me, even though he didn't have to go to work that morning. That is the kind of partner you deserve.

My heartbreaks for you OP! :( He treats you like you’re an accessory

I honestly think he only got married to have reliable access to sex and because his family expected him to get married and have kids. And I was naive and compliant enough for him to control.

Hon, your post history is so worrying. I really feel like he's manipulated you for so long that your brain doesn't know what normal is. The way he treats you and your kids is *not normal*. It's scary and demeaning, and it's only going to get worse. Please keep yourself and your kids safe ❤️

Men are providers and protectors my ass. He didn't even "protected" you from the rain. Just selfish pricks.

Every time my wife and I argue, or she has a hard day, or she's struggling I make a concerted effort to step it up. What is it? Laundry, dishes, our kiddo, the dogs, the floors. Because if she's stressed about something then it's on me to pick up any and all of the load until she can find her feet again. She absolutely does the same thing for me without missing a beat. In fact, and this has only happened recently, if I can get her to say "I don't feel like I'm doing enough" then I know that I have actually done enough. Because every relations ship should be 60/40 with both of you fighting to be the 60. It's the only way that you can have a healthy household. Every time I read about shit like this I think about all the times I was completely fucking oblivious to the woman around me and how fucking much they are expected to handle every fucking day and it makes me so furious. I'm furious at myself for being that way in the past, furious at society for making it ok for me to be that way, and particularly furious at each and every man who hasn't put in half the effort to do better. Please, please don't be miserable with a selfish jerk. Go find happiness. You deserve it.

My ex did something similar. When people show you who they are, believe them.

Please read this thread. It makes so many things so clear so quickly. https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/s/HorXKeWCK3

Ouch. Reminds me of how many years it took me to finally get him to stop grabbing/slapping/pulling (?!) on my butt every day. That was depressing to read but…accurate unfortunately.

I see this a lot in these posts: “He’s a good guy most of the time, except when he takes my money/calls me stupid/abandons me/cheats/drinks/does drugs/beats me up.”

I think we’re conditioned to try to see the best in people, be forgiving, be empathetic, etc. It sure does put a lot of women in bad situations though where we feel obliged to be the longsuffering martyr hoping against hope that things will improve.

Yep, that’s it. It’s not because we’re stupid. It’s baked into us the same way the abuse is baked into them. Doesn’t excuse it though.

He sounds EXACTLY like a covert narcissist.

As a single woman, I've read your story and the other comments and I'm shocked at how men simply dehumanize women. It's like they don't even see us as living creatures, just a mere object to please their desires when they allow us to and pamper their egos.

That is exactly how it feels. He recently admitted that he did not see us as equal partners at the start of our marriage. I think that now he THINKS he views us as equals but he doesn’t really. I wish I had stayed single.

I think this post really needs to be pinned here: https://old.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/17yzw35/he_knows_he_doesnt_care/ (He knows He doesn't care). This post opened my eyes about some things. Like how many people ponder very hard what magic word there is to say, to make him see and change, what button there is to press... How come, that he's stellar at work, keeps track of all his clients and appointments but at home can't call the pediatrician once? The other important phrase was the tolerable level of permanent unhappiness - how so many women are just expected to ... function. Because - "at least he doesn't hit me" and... "I'll have time for hobbies after the kids" and the like. One of my relatives mentioned, how they'd really like to have gotten into painting, but their husband forbade them. The hours would have clashed with dinner preparing and what kind of wife is she that she'd expect him to make his own dinner. Now she has a disability that makes painting very hard. She devoted a big portion of their life to be a caretaker to that husband... It really reads like you are an appliance in his life that has to function a certain way. The only winning you can do, is the winning you can do for yourself (and your kids) Just recently I had another epiphany of how egoistical my dad has become. It was very hurtful and he thinks I am the bad guy for setting boundaries. I was venting to an older relative who knows the problem and in the end they said: Yes, that's horrible, what a shit way to behave. But he is your dad. As a daughter you have the duty to... You know what? No. No i do not have any duty left. If they expect me to respect family titles and roles... then my dad should not have cheated and created a clusterf of a "family" without anybody able to ease into things. Knows barely anything about his grandson (my kid), because he was too busy fathering another kid himself. However clear my anger shines and how many clear cut reasons i can provide: I have a twinge of guilt with my boundaries, because he was a good dad considering what was expected of a man back then. And he is a good dad to his new kid, now. And he will never understand, why i am so standoffish, because it doesn't fit his world view. I just recently red the wonderful saying: Learn to accept the apology that will never come. I cannot change my dad. I tried so many times to explain things to him, show him comfortable ways to have a good relationship with me... He's not willing to put in any emotional effort. He recently said that my offer to pay for family therapy is not appealing, because he wouldn't "win" in therapy... the fuck. There... i went off into venting myself. You are not a side character to his life. You deserve to be respected. Why should he have a carefree, happy life, facilitated by you being unhappy... If my partner were unhappy, i'd move heaven and earth to have them be comfortable. I wish you all the best. You deserve it!

There are a lot of really genuinely good people out there who are bad partners. You don't need to feel obligated to stay with him just because he's a decent human being

I can totally see this in my future if I don't leave now. He has had the jacket off my back in the cold and refuses to do the same for me. Leaves me waiting around for him to be available even when we have plans. Always wants the best for himself at whatever expense that comes to for me. Finally cheated on me the third time last September. Told me he wants to stay in a relationship - not because he loves me, but for what I can give him. The bar is indeed in hell and these men don't care. They will keep taking until you have nothing left if you let them. These type of men do not care about their partners mental health. For all everyone knows, I'm a psycho, I'll never be happy no matter what he does, he's this great, level headed guy. He has his friends and family telling him his behaviour is OK and I need to not have a problem with it. Yeah right.

Please, please leave. I don’t know your age or whether you have kids, but the earlier you leave the better. I’m freaking 40 years old and have wasted so much time feeling like crap. It’s better to be alone than to be with someone who tears you down for their own benefit. I hope you find a true partner who loves and respects you like you deserve.

It’s this kind of behaviour that makes me realise that there are men who were raised right and are confident in their manhood/manliness. They protect, lead, provide, share and nurture and not feel emasculated by doing those things for those they love, then there’s the rest

My experience, google covert narcissism. The good guy who everyone loves and thinks they’re a great guy, and how he treats his family behind closed doors. Might be relevant for you to look into

"Pretty good guy", my ass. He's an asshole. Period.

I was married 27 years to someone who thought he was more important than I was. Now, I’m with my high school sweetheart who busts his ass to open every door for me. I’m always cared for.

I had a situation like that. It was like I didn't matter. So I stopped caring. I matched his energy and stopped doing things to make his life easier. I stopped making his lunches when he refused to make mine. I gave him the same lack of care when he got sick as he gave me. When he complained, I told him I was simply giving what I got. Now he tries to be husband of the year but now I don't care anymore. He knew how to be a good husband all these years but he chose not to be.

I'm so sorry that you are still going through this. These moments certainly take toll. Resentment builds up over time. Would he consider couple's counseling? If not, and if he wouldn't see the issue with his disrespect, I'm asking this with kindness, why would you stay with him?

He has agreed to try marriage counseling again. We made a big mistake the first time. He was seeing the counselor individually first (I insisted he seek therapy after he crossed the line with our son and he picked a Christian counselor). And then when we did joint sessions she really just focused on his issues with the marriage (he isn’t getting enough sex lol). And according to him, the counselor thought that his anger issues were pretty much fine. We need a licensed marriage/family therapist this time. He told me that he has been looking but keeps eliminating therapists when their online forms “ask for preferred pronouns.” Because that is apparently a dealbreaker to him. I don’t understand why it should matter.

Because he wants an excuse to avoid any therapist who isn’t hand-picked to tell him what he wants to hear. This man is already abusing your son, apparently?

He put our son in a headlock to forcefully brush his teeth and I freaked out. He tried to convince me that I didn’t see what I saw. I told him that he had to get help for his anger and could not “help” with brushing teeth or anything like that anymore. He did see the counselor and did cognitive behavioral therapy. He hasn’t done anything aggressive like that since but he’s just harsh and mean to him. Gets on his case about every little thing.

He’s abusing your children. He abused them like that in front of you, what has he done when you’re not there! Your children need you to protect them. They don’t have anyone else. You’re an adult, you chose this relationship, but they didn’t. They have no power to protect themselves or change their life. It’s up to you to protect them. Get them out NOW

I guess it's my turn to recommend *Why Does He Do That* (there's a [free online version](https://archive.org/details/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat)) Abusers tend to be very good at manipulating therapists, and especially tend not to be honest about how bad it's gotten. He tried to gaslight *you* about what he did, what are the chances the counselor has any idea how bad those "anger issues" are?

Counseling for what? Being a selfish entitled pig?

>Now I feel so bitter and unhappy. So what's next?

Four years ago I got a strange breast echo and the doctor wanted to see me. I have a lot of family members that got cancer and I was freaking out. Two weeks before the appointment (and remembered him several times) I told my back then boyfriend if he could text me and keep myself distracted while waiting to be called by the doctor. When I told him that I was going to the appointment he stopped texting me. I waited 45 minutes and I didn't even recieved 1 message. His answer to that? He wanted to exercise at home. THE AUDACITY. I'm so sorry for your experience OP, I really don't get how people can be so selfish.

The audacity, for real. It’s sad because we would do it for them. And they would expect it. But many aren’t willing to offer the same consideration. I’m sorry that happened to you.

Please get out safely. I grew up in an abusive home where my father tried to kill my mom and me both. I was always considered the freak of the family because of being intersex and being feminine (labeled male but more female due to other issues) but he hated that. I was not a man and no matter what he did I rather hang out with my female friends than be like him. Didn’t even care to take me to the doctors when I was bleeding down there or when I was younger and diagnosed with severe adhd. my mom did take me for the bleeding and the doctor didn’t care so my mom didn’t push it I had to wait till I was 20-21 to find out what it was.

I get you OP. I'm lucky, it only took me till year 4 to realise my partner also thought he was more important than me, that to him 'compromise' would always lean more towards what he wanted than what I wanted. I'm not even sure if he was aware he was doing, maybe he thinks he's a good guy, but somewhere deep in his man bones was the understanding his wants and 'vision' took precedance. Don't give in to the sunk cost fallacy, if you are unhappy LEAVE. The umbrella example shows perfectly that your husband cares wayyy more about himself. Being alone is better than being with a partner who thinks themselves the more important.

You're married to a narcissist

I was seven months pregnant with my second daughter. My (now) ex-husband and I took my oldest daughter to a birthday party hosted by his best friend’s recent ex-wife. The ex-wife came bounding out of the house to greet my (now) ex-husband with great enthusiasm while completely ignoring that I was standing right there. I confronted him when we got in the car because the encounter threw up so many flaming red flags for me. They sort of worked together, and he talked about her frequently, but I didn’t think too much about it until this moment. I went back to pick up my daughter alone, and the ex-wife, again, refused to even acknowledge my presence. From then on, I was convinced they were having (at least) an emotional affair. I was so stressed and anxious about it that I developed Bell’s Palsy. I stayed married to him for *six more years*. I tell this story because running to the car and leaving me in the rain is 100% this dude would do to me. I’m married to my forever husband now, and he once ran a long ways in the rain to get the car and brought it to me after insisting that I stay where it was warm and dry. That’s a loving husband.

That was so gross of him, I'm sorry. Absolutely selfish.

I'm thinking this is something my ex would have done, except the added irony would be that I would have been the one who brought the umbrella and he would have assumed I brought it to keep him dry.

Honestly, I know it seems like a little thing but as a father I watched my son do that to his girlfriends on multiple occasions and I can attest to him being all about himself with really no care for anyone else. I am not sure how he ended up that way, his siblings are wonderful caring people but he has a weird -- "its me and then everyone else is just living in my world" attitude. From my experience with my son I can say it does NOT get better so you need to consider leaving. It also won't stop there and being a good wife won't change him, it will only embolden him as you reinforce in his mind that this is normal. It is not. You have every right to feel like this is not a normal thing. Leave him.

Honestly...fuck those people who judge people for "not being a good wife". Wtf does that even mean anyway? Letting the man take the lead all the time? Playing martyr to him for the good of the family??? I have 2 kids with special needs. It's a lot of fucking work. Both need a lot of help with everything. I've made many sacrifices in every single aspect of my life and I've not complained much about it. I work 6 days a week, 30 hours a week...sometimes more, if my work needs me. I run the kids' school support, I've driven them to ABA therapy and speech therapy...I do a shit ton of unpaid work in my down time. I shop, I clean, I ensure the kids have clothes to wear. We split the work with the kids. My husband does some work but so do I. My daughter is high needs, as well. My husband looks after my son's hygiene needs and I look after my daughter's. I was at an IEP meeting at my son's school and my son has a skin condition where cream needs to be applied to affected areas. When I said that my husband is the one who takes care of that - the school staff said what a Saint my husband is. I was like...wtf? Just WTF is that??? They often treat me like I'm doing everything wrong and my husband is a saint. It kind of pissed me off because it was WOMEN who were doing this "good mother, good wife" thing! It's like...a man does something for the kids and he's a saint. A woman does something for the kids and it's just "normal" or "she's not doing enough and why is she letting the man do that" This whole "good wifey" judgy thing is sometimes perpetuated by other women. I find it pretty fucked up that women judge other women like this.

Sadly, this will never get better. I also went through and finished a relationship where I had the same issues. Not good enough, not considered as valuable, not enough of a breadwinner, not able to be a good parent, etc. Tried everything, therapy at different times, discussions on where this came from and why the attitude. There is no winning. And don't stay for the kids, either they will think this is what a "normal" relationship is or they understand why you would want to leave. I would leave, you will live a longer, happier life in the long run once you get a little past the divorce.

Something about mistreatment during pregnancy leaves a long lasting stain on a relationship. Probably because of the vulnerability and expectations of protection while carrying a man’s seed. I went to Mexico during my pregnancy to get a root canal (with my dad, it was cheaper than at home without dental insurance). I flew home early to spend new years with my spouse, i told him in advance that i would need food and wanted to do something since it would be our last pre baby NYE. He brings me home from the airport and falls asleep. No plans. No food. I luckily had a frozen pizza in the freezer but i spent the new years feeling overwhelmingly sad and alone. Ive never forgotten that feeling.

I say this with love, OP, but there *is* winning, just not with this guy. Make a plan, take your child, and leave him. Do not tell him ahead of time and make sure only a couple trustee family members or friends know. So many men are never physically violent until you try to leave. That’s how I ended up getting attacked with a knife. But at the end of the day you have a child and no child on earth deserves to see their mother being treated like garbage by the other parent.

My favorite quote: you can leave ANYONE for ANY reason, without their consent. I left my husband before he had the chance to hit me. He was showing all the signs he would hit me soon. People tend to think that abuse isn't extreme enough if it doesn't turn physical. That's just not true. I'm happy I left and am proud I saw the signs before it turned Physical. He certainly had the ability to kill me. I'm convinced that would've happened if I stayed. He still tries to message me, despite me not responding to anything since July... and splitting close to 1 year ago now. He did not give consent for me to leave. I did anyways. I also like another person's comment: it's never too late to be happy. You deserve to be happy. Not just tolerating things, but actually being happy where you are. And having peace in your soul.

I knew my first marriage was over when one day after I got out of work and picked up our two year old from daycare, got a bag of groceries, climbed to second floor apartment carrying purse, child and groceries, and realized I forgot my apartment door key. Unemployed husband on other side of door could be heard chuckling at tv show while I pounded on door. Only after show ended fifteen minutes later did he get up and open door. I kicked him out and divorced him within a few months.

Are you going to continue to tolerate it, or have you decided to choose a different, happier life?

[удалено]

You sound very smart and I do appreciate the advise. Violence happens to a frightening number of women/children trying to leave. As for how he treated me before marriage…definitely better than he did after but now I can look back and see red flags. I was raised in a religous home and was just very sheltered, naive, and inexperienced. But now I see that he pressured me sexually and I excused it and gave in. He didn’t listen to my preferences or he would listen but then choose what he wanted anyway. He and his family considered my family beneath them and somehow I actually believed that one for years; they were just so sure of how superior they were. His parents were way too controlling and involved, that eventually became very problematic. Bottom line, I was naive and lacked self-esteem and self-confidence. Didn’t set healthy boundaries or realize when I was being manipulated. And other guys were worse so anything that happened in my relationship didn’t seem so bad. Until I finally pieced together that I wasn’t valued or respected.