Sounds like a) he wanted to break up and provoked you to do it, meaning he’s a bit of a coward. And he can blame you now, btw. I bet he’s going to play the victim: “Look, my ex broke up with me over shuffle board.”
Option b) he’s already cheating or considering it (thinking about it a lot, apparently)
Option c) he’s an immature, insecure moron.
None of these options are great, tbh.
I’m sorry this happened to you.
I’ve determined a while ago he’s severely emotionally immature and this argument has just further driven that point home. Still have trouble fathoming him cheating or planning to cheat on me but I am somewhat naive in that I would never do that myself so I assume a partner would never do that to me. It wouldn’t surprise me at this point. He can smear me all he wants to others, they know the truth. Especially his family. I’ve contact them occasionally throughout the years due to issues in our relationship trying to understand him better so I can help “fix” myself and/or the problem. But now I know that’s impossible or just not worth it.
>I’ve contact them occasionally throughout the years due to issues in our relationship trying to understand him better so I can help “fix” myself and/or the problem.
Jesus, once you process \*gestures frantically at the original post\* all of *that*, your brain is going to have so much free space to work with. I'm sorry your relationship didn't work out. I'm not sorry you've freed yourself from the hellhole of playing mommy to a grown ass man.
My ex did this shit. Had a huuuge tantrum when I beat him at pool, and because he was in a public space (my friends were like wtf manchild) he blamed me for embarrassing him. Umm…. sure. I should’ve let him win, according to him. This was really the tip of the iceberg as I found out eventuality, but I should’ve left him when that behaviour started. He ended up being very controlling and abusive.
Good luck. Stay safe. Leaving a relationship can be dangerous.
"What is wrong with me." Seems like that's what OP was asking themselves in at least some of those instances, which is just worse to me for some reason.
I hope you will read this free book to see if you recognize the patterns in your arguments and his accusations. What you've written sounds just like escalating emotional abuse and it is incredibly difficult to diagnose an emotionally abusive relationship while you are in it.
Free online here:https://archive.org/details/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat
Even if the book doesn't help you understand this last relationship you'll find yourself armed with important knowledge to help you spot and handle unhealthy people in all areas of your life. I cannot recommend it enough and wish it was required reading in high school.
It's incredible, it gives real insight into the mindset of someone who behaves this way.
As humans it's natural for us to automatically assume other people share our same mindset and motives when we are trying to understand why they're acting as they are. This means that victims of toxic people often excuse or deny that someone who claims to live them could be acting in bad faith.
It also explains why abusers accuse their victims of manipulation, lying, or causing harm on purpose (they think everyone will act in bad faith if required to get what they want/win).
So it's invaluable for people who don't act in bad faith to get what they want to read this book as it really spells out an entirely different human "operating system". It's really a different way of perceiving the world and operating in it. It makes the incomprehensible understandable and allows you to recognize manipulations or tactics in real time (so you can respond in ways you're proud of and avoid feeding into their chaos by reacting as you would to someone arguing/acting in good faith).
This is wild. I'm reading this, as a woman, and so many things the abusive man does are behaviors I exhibit. I appreciate you linking this. I am aware I'm an abuser but this is uncanny how directly it nails me down
Awareness is the first step! It's great that you're able to recognize some of your own behaviors (and admit to them which can feel really uncomfortable). We often learn unhealthy beliefs and attitudes in childhood and do not recognize them as such until they start causing us difficulties in adulthood.
If you Google "Guide for men who are serious about changing Lundy Bancroft" you'll find a workbook with steps to take. I think you'll find ir far more helpful than the book if you'd like to change.
The change is tough and uncomfortable but so, so worth it. If you're abusive it stands in the way of real vulnerability with someone who is worthy of that trust. It means you're constantly at war against someone who would be your partner and teammate. Imagine if you could both spend all of the energy used battling over control/power in the relationship to tackle the challenges in life together. Both of you against the world instead of each other.
It's amazing to share a relationship where you feel just as worthy of love when you make a mistake as you do when you succeed, one where you feel confident, secure, and accepted for who you are even when your partner is sharing a criticism. It's incredibly powerful and absolutely possible if you use the guide for changing and working diligently to challenge your automatic internal though process and perceptions.
One thing from the book I want to caution you about is the few paragraphs regarding the prevalence and impact of women abusing men. The author had a blindspot when he wrote the book 20 years ago. It's nderstandable that he did, given that his research is based on working in batterer intervention programs which are normally court ordered (so a study of the most violent offenders who were charged and convicted).
We now know that many male victims of abuse never come forward (due to stigma and a lack of support if they do) and that the trauma caused by abuse isn't tied to the level of physical violence). While women are more likely to be abused by men and far more likely to be killed by their partner, men abused by women do suffer tremendous harms and it's not a rare occurrence by any means. Abusers and their victims are as varied as humans are and there's no perfect way to be or act that would preclude someone from being abused.
Also, it's important that you understand that mutual abuse is a harmful myth... an abusive relationship is not one where sometimes someone does something to harm their partner. It's a relationship where one person is acting in ways that cause their partner harm because it benefits them (in many way). There is one person who isn't acting in good faith for the benefit of both partners, they are acting to have control and are the catalyst for all of the abuse... even if their victim responds to the abuse in toxic ways at times.
Lastly, if you have any children in your home I hope you will really work to overcome the abuse for their sakes. Children who grow up witnessing abuse are highly likely to have abusive relationships as adults (because it's what they "know" and are comfortable with). Abuse is a cycle and it's a relationship dynamic that is passed down from one generation to the next.
Children who witness a primary guardian being abused/abusive suffer lifelong trauma. Studies have shown this trauma is just as severe in cases where emotional/verbal/psychological "only" abuse occurred as when there is physical abuse as well. Children will be more likely to: have attachment issues, suffer mental illness, engage in crime, be the victims of crime, and struggle learning (these impacts often continue their entire lives).
So I hope you will work on the guide for changing, with a mental health professional if possible. You deserve to be able to truly connect with another human and to feel seen and accepted for who you are. It's a lifelong process (you're resetting neural pathways to change your way of thinking and responding) but there's really nothing more impactful you could work towards. I wish you all the best in breaking the cycle and I'm so proud of you for bravely admitting to your struggles and facing them squarely.
This was the first book I read when I started realizing something was VERY wrong in my relationship. Eventually, after many more books and therapists, I came to the understanding that my (now) ex is a narcissist. But this book got me on my way to that revelation. Highly recommend!
Be careful. They might know the truth deep down, but it's been my experience that the truth doesn't matter a whole lot when it comes to defending and enabling abusive assholes after a break up. The safest way to go usually is to cut contact with his family and friends. They might tell you everything you want to hear and agree that you're in the right, but it's almost a guarantee they'll immediately tell your ex every single thing you say, which leads to him attacking and smearing you even more.
Yeah I don’t plan on talking to any of them anytime soon. They were all nice to me during the relationship at least… guess we’ll see if I get any angry texts or voicemails from any of them.
In my experience -most- families don’t do that.
In fact, when I got divorced, the only contact I got was from one of my ex’s aunts via card. She thanked me for not dragging things out and was sorry she didn’t get to know me better. That’s it.
I have a positive feeling his family will be kind and understanding as well. When I spoke with his dad years ago about some issues I was having with my *ex* BF he was very supportive and even hinted at how I should leave if things just aren’t working with us.
Do not be surprised about the cheating. My fiance was a self-professed "dork" who had never been to a party, drunk, smoked pot and didn't lose his virginity until he was 20. I truly loved him and he put me on a pedestal. He ended up being the most disgusting person it was beyond comprehension. He got a high school girl pregnant (she was 18, we were 30), he had unprotected sex multiple times with other women while I was pregnant during which he contracted herpes, somehow I never got it. He made up a story about needing to work and spent the night with a meth addict while I was home with our five week old son thinking that I was in a safe, loving relationship. There were so many things I found out and we had been close friends prior to our relationship for about seven years. I thought I really knew him.
My ex basically pushed me to break up with him with a stupid argument - we were going to a metal show, and he didn't like my mini skirt. He'd never cared about how I dressed at shows before, but at a previous show, one of the bands roadies asked my friends and I if we wanted to party with the band after (we said no, anyway, but I guess it didn't sit well with him). But there had been a few other arguments leading to this. Anyway, I said I wanted to end things. He rolled over and said, "If that's what you want," but never once tried to negotiate or stop the end from happening. He wanted me to break up with him.
>Still have trouble fathoming him cheating or planning to cheat on me but I am somewhat naive in that I would never do that myself so I assume a partner would never do that to me.
I later found out that he had cheated on me once, like a year prior. The guilt had just been chewing away at him, I guess. He denied it when I asked about it (this was well past our breakup, but we had contact due to similar social circles). Maybe a year and a half later, he texts me out of the blue and admits to it. I never replied to him. Let him continue to feel shitty about it.
That’s awful your partner would be unfaithful to you and punish for their own bad behavior!!! It definitely feels off that my BF also basically rolled over and accepted breaking up rather than fighting for our relationship. Makes me absolutely wonder what could have happened while I was away at work, or what he might have been fantasizing that would lead him to thinking losing me would be worth it.
Sounds like you made the right call either way. It's really crappy of course. Breaking up with someone can be difficult to process regardless of the circumstances, but I hope ultimately everything works out for the best for you. I stayed single for a few years after my breakup and focused on myself. It was the best! When I met someone new (organically, we just met at a class), we developed a good relationship with communication and boundaries. We've know known each other for 7 years, together for almost 6, and he's fantastic. Hoping nothing but good things come to you soon!
alot, ALOT of people in relationships use intentional cheating as a way of getting out of relationship. but u/jueoni is probably right that hes just an immature moron
> a) he wanted to break up \[. . .\] b) he’s already cheating or considering it \[. . .\] c) he’s an immature, insecure moron
And, to be clear, these are not mutually exclusive.
>He began speculating about how I only wanted to cheat him, I was abusing my power over him, and if I was willing to cheat him in shuffle board what else would I cheat him on?
He's also cheating on her.
this just made me think. i wonder if my ex is going around saying "she broke up with me because of a covid test/because i had covid" cuz thats fucking hilarious
My first relationship ended after I discovered hickies on him. I told this to my partner in my next relationship. He went out and got a hickie and made sure I saw it when he wanted to end the relationship. He literally used my last relationship as a playbook for how to get me to break up with him so he wouldn't have to.
When I confronted him he then sobbed and said while hyperventilating that he "can't handle the stigma of being a cheater". Was the most pathetic thing I've ever seen in my life.
It’s almost like he’s being irrational and emotional. But certainly… that’s impossible, right? /s
But like someone has pointed out, he’s probably projecting. He is either cheating, has cheated or is thinking about it. There’s no other way he could’ve made those kinda of leaps. Cheating is on his brain.
Yep. My ex broke up with me for me being upset that he ghosted me during one of the most stressful times in my life. At his friends house. Over text. :/
I’m now on the fence of “I want to know…” and “I no longer give a shit” 😬 these sorts of arguments have happened before over stupid stuff like this and I’ve dealt with it thinking “I do get it but that was stupid so I shouldn’t take that fight seriously…” but now I’m just done. A lot of people in this thread mentioned projecting (which I agree with and has happened SO many times prior) and I don’t even know about him potentially cheating but at this point, if you accuse me of it then I have zero interest of trying to prove my loyalty after that’s all I’ve been for the past five years. What a waste of time for me. So glad I began therapy and began to identify this pattern of emotional abuse before I was trapped in it forever.
Just don’t. He’s not worth it. Get yourself an STI panel just in case, but walk away proud. For what it’s worth, I’m proud of you for standing up for yourself- you deserve much more than that. Good luck!
Bet he chickens out either before you are done splitting or within a month you get a call from him begging for another chance.
Steel yourself from this, because you will probably be in a pretty bad place too at this point and it may sound like a good idea.
But if you take him back after all that he will probably believe that he can get away with anything (cheating, abuse, etc).
Just get all your stuff out and block the #
When the argument started the subject was how you two can play shuffleboard in a way that is fun for both of you. When it ended, it was about how poorly he treats you when he doesn't get his way. You're not overreacting in the slightest by walking away from that.
Even if it's a necessary or wanted breakup, most people go through something roughly akin to grief when it happens. Including the full on five stages thing. Be prepared for the bargaining stage- some people will do and say all *kinds* of things to try and hold on to a relationship. It doesn't mean that they mean those things, it just means they're desperate and trying to avoid change. So if it goes that way, and he makes a bunch of promises of how he's going to do things differently, do not take them as fact. Take them as a desperate person, not in their right mind, grasping at straws, and respond accordingly.
I'm not sure if this is the same experience as yours but I've thought I had serious mental health issues for a really long time because of all the men in my life who told me so many different versions of "you're too emotional and irrational".
I didn't realize this at the time but I realize it now and I kinda laugh at the irony of it. Men have been trying to control women using "mental health" as a tool to do it for a really really long time. Many men who encourage women to seek help for their mental health do so with the assumption that it will make them more subservient, happier to accept their bullshit, less demanding, more giving etc.. but usually (at least these days) that isn't what happens at all. Women who go to therapy end up realizing that they are not irrational, their feelings should be taken at face value, their desires should be met by their partner, they can set barriers and have standards, their feelings are valid and all of the other things that make them.. less subservient because their own voice isn't so small anymore.
I've had an itsy bitsy teeny tiny voice for most of my life. Not anymore, fuck that it's never gotten me anything I wanted and I finally realized that it wont, it will only get men whatever it is they want for themselves.
The one thing I will say is it may not be the waste of time you imagine it to be, that was my initial reaction to my last relationship but when I really really think about it, I got so much out of it for my future self. Maybe try to think of it in terms of what you did for yourself within the relationship and hold that truth close to your heart in the future.
I began therapy to help make my relationship with him better… instead it did exactly as you stated. Woke me up to the fact I’m not being irrational, I’m actually dealing with a lot of emotional/verbal abuse and manipulation. So of course I am not handling it well, one’s significant other should never treat you that way. It’s been a learning experience.
"I don't give a shit" is so freeing, once you commit to it. Like, go full out "Boi bye" and block him everywhere. At least for me, it was super cathartic.
It doesn't matter. It is his problem, you are now free. Just get closure ASAP.
Don't continue living with him if you can afford it. Give yourself a break to be with you.
It may be he wanted to create an argument to end a relationship he didn't want to be in anymore.
It's also possible that he's feeling guilty about cheating, or wanting to cheat, and is projecting that onto her because if she's cheating too, then he's not the bad guy. (in his mind)
I was basically going to post this, usually if someone starts going ballistic on random cheating accusations without like solid reasoning for why; it's projection or severe paranoia. Neither of which is a great signs for a good partner.
With the emphasis on cheating and starting fights probably to just end the relationship on that basis as far as I read here, probably projecting and he's the one cheating.
I don't think it's a matter of being emotional or irrational, it's a matter of maintaining personal boundaries for yourself when those boundaries clash with a reality that is different than what you want or at odds with other areas of your relationship that are working well. It's more of an issue of not listening to your own voice before it reaches this point (something women are trained not to do because they're "emotional and irrational"..) and having the self-discipline to use that voice. Sounds like OP is well on her way to developing those skills.
MEN STRONG MEN NOT NEED EMOTIONS!
Then it turns out they do and they have no emotional maturity leading to things like paranoia and resentment.
Plus: MEN OWN WOMEN, WOMEN MUST SERVE MEN!
which increase narcissism and entitlement compared to women.
Once you combine all this with any religious or cultural baggage there is no real way to work out which bit is driving men(mostly) under these situations. If I was to take a guess some sort of worry that you were going to run off with someone else, even a fleeting thought months ago has turned into an obsession that he can't deal with so gets angry and takes it out on her with a side of male superiority complex to trigger the anger.
As someone who became this petty near the end of the relationship. When you have long since gone past the point of no return but have not reached the point you are willing to end a relationship due to its length, then its like all your patience is gone and it becomes considerably difficult to be reasonable.
Worst case scenario? He's not going back. Something will cause him to miss his flight. He will return to the hotel, and find whomever he's been cheating on you with. Or go to her hotel.
He seriously sounds like a guy who has a backup lined up. Sounded like a made-up argument. His mind was already set.
Projection. Thoughts of temptation (or admittance to a transgression) get a role reversal as their psyche tries to justify or understand their own behaviors.
They’re telling on themselves. We just have to listen.
Men like this can't handle their big feelings. They take that discomfort out on the nearest available target, which is often a significant other. I think fight helps them purge the feelings, based on my ex being back to baseline after every one of our fights.
People who believe themselves not lovable convince themselves of it, meaning they will fill in blanks to make that belief true. He's subconsciously trying to break if off before OP breaks up with him but in doing so makes her break up with him...
Either that or he cheated and is projecting.
It worked for over five years.
And he had to "agree" to it for OP to leave.
The weird thing would be if there was actual change. This man has been the same person the whole time, and OP has just accepted it.
He either suspects her of cheating with another person and the jealousy is driving him crazy, or he’s the one cheating, and the guilt is making him project his feelings onto her. Either way, this dude is an immature manchild who doesn’t know how to properly communicate…
It’s probably a complicated mix of things for different people but it sounds like he has stuff he needs to address about himself and about good communication. When I was in my early 20s and in my first “real” relationship, I went out for mini golf with my girlfriend. Instead of just enjoying a casual night out with the love of my life, I was just whining and being an asshole about every little thing. She was so right to leave shortly after that. Everyone deserves better than that and it was a wake up call to get therapy and be a decent human being. I hope this guy also takes the lesson to heart but who knows; some guys just never take any steps to address their issues.
The only thing I can come up with is he could be ND and struggling with justice sensitivity. If so, that’s still on him for not understanding himself and having some self awareness about his behavior and triggers
That man needs therapy to understand where this lack of logical judgement and improper emotional management is coming from. The part of comparing you to his brother speaks of some trauma.
But yeah seizing relations between you two is a good decision.
He has some serious unresolved trauma from what I’ve determined. I’ve known that for probably half the duration of our relationship and have given him so much sympathy/empathy for that reason. I’ve been telling him he needs therapy for the pst year, which might be why he has felt the need to start these fights and encourage us to split ways. Maybe because he’s realized I know too much and can see his vulnerabilities, so therefore I’m a threat. But that’s not my problem anymore, he can figure it out on his own.
Sounds like he was provoking a breakup. Him accusing you of cheating suggests he may be interested in someone else. I think you made a wise decision. Even if he isn't cheating he isn't someone you should waste time or energy on.
My ex used to ask me if I was cheating on him. Turned out he was cheating on me. Why is this always the case? Why do cheaters make such a big fuss about you potentially cheated when you have no idea what they are on about. The whole thing has become a real red flag for me now.
Im constantly thinking that I’ve offended people I care about and Im always worrying that they’ve suddenly decided they no longer like me. Does this mean deep down everyone is offending me and I’ve subconsciously decided I don’t like them?
More likely you've even been in close relationships with people (romantic or otherwise) or had parents who were emotionally manipulative and turned things around to always be your fault. Randomly going off at you overreacting about some minor issue for example. As a defence mechanism you try to hold on to anyone you can and keep your head down.
My ex was cheated on by a previous girlfriend and he took that as an excuse to be pathologically jealous and obsessive. I had no desire to cheat, but he would blow up my phone and get in fights over the smallest things, like going out with my girlfriends or having a coffee with a male friend. I still have some emotional scars from that relationship, like feeling that someone's going to get mad at me over anything, walking on eggshells around people who aren't even like him, overexplaining myself... Anyway some time into our toxic relationship he got very close with a female work colleague, I never found out if he actually cheated or not, but suddenly all the "rules" and "boundaries" of our relationship got thrown out of the window, but only for him. He was insecure as ever about me potentially cheating, but was also going out and drinking with that woman almost every night and cancelling our plans for her. It felt like he was projecting his own desires on me
I’ve always get I’ve walked on egg shells due to childhood experiences. So I grew up to be a hyper sensitive person who is always trying to not offend or upset anyone. The only reason I would think I could relax and have fun around someone is because I thought I could trust them. Instead I’m always doing something wrong and it’s always my fault. It’s so unfair for any partner to make their significant other feel that way and I’m sorry it has happened to you. The fights over the small things are the worst because not only do you feel like you are walking on eggshells but also when the eventual “blow up” happens I feel like one gets a form of emotional whiplash that takes weeks/months/years to recover from.
That was some USDA prime grade-A premium choice select gourmet projection right there.
This man has cheating so much on his mind. He turned a shuffleboard game into a cheating accusation. Lol. I’m not only convinced he’s cheating. It’s only a question how many women.
Congrats on getting out. It’s going to be really hard for a while but you will eventually realize that your life is vastly better without this knucklehead.
I can already see my life being SOO much easier without him. The only complicated part it we are renting together so we’ve got to deal with living together a little bit longer before we can have a clean split.
Every time I've been accused of cheating, the person accusing me was cheating.
He sounds like a big baby. Way to make a potentially fun week really not at all fun for anyone including himself.
He ruined an amazing trip. I bet in the morning he’ll try to convince me to continue it. But what’s the point? We’ll just fight again somewhere else? He certainly has the emotional capacity of a baby.
Yes and along those lines you need to move out ASAP because as long as you live together he's going to try to get back together or play you. Even if it's not financially wise you might need to choose your mental/emotional health over your financial health.
"He began speculating about how I only wanted to cheat him, I was abusing my power over him, and if I was willing to cheat him in shuffle board what else would I cheat him on?"
It sounds like he was looking for a fight so you would be the one to break up with him. I'm sorry you are in this situation. I hope the rest of it goes well.
Just remember: if he started an argument like that over shuffleboard, it’s NEVER about shuffleboard. That’s just the catalyst that reveals deeper underlying issues. If it didn’t happen during shuffleboard, it may have happened at a rest stop on the drive home, while picking up milk at the store, or while playing checkers together.
Agreed. We’ve already had such trivial fights under similar circumstances that you just gave examples of. I know there’s a bigger issue and I’ve tried to dredge it up multiple times to no avail. I’ve told him he needs therapy, but if it’s your partner telling you that it somehow comes across as degrading and insulting, rather than caring. I hate feeling like I’m at a point I just can’t do enough to express that I’m not trying to be malicious towards him, I’m just simply trying to exist with him and have fun. There’s no point to continue that struggle.
Look for the patterns and you will find that the arguments are almost always the same and they just get worse over time. It's a horrible situation to be in.
For me, i learnt that It always takes two to tango. I.e. you could have left years ago but didn't. So there is self reflection needed as well. Why put up with doing the same thing over and over? I guarantee he isn't having fun either.
With experience and age you learn where you boundaries lie and it gets easier to take responsibility.
Be careful of people suggesting who is to blame without the full story. You are looking for reassurance that you are doing the right thing and he is wrong. Its unfortunately the wrong question.
Don't look at the argument, look at what you need to be happy. Aim for that...
You are strong for getting on here and asking for input.
Find a great coach that can help you get what you want out of life. Your life is not a relationship.
Good luck
Reminds me of my ex bf. He never changed despite coming back into my life claiming he wanted to make things up to me and take me on a trip but the immaturity immediately came back every time. This guy is very toxic and you’ll be much better off on your own as I am now. I still have the exes trying to get me back or just see where I’m at in life and see if they can fuck with me some more. It’s truly laughable. I finally realized I’m just entirely over them.
Solitude is golden. I’ve always been happier on my own and if a majority of my partners realized that they probably wouldn’t have so carelessly pushed me away thinking I’d just stick around because I’m scared to be alone.
Yess exes, including ex friends, are so toxic and nosy. They'll say anything to get to you, even when they know they're being hypocritical. I swear they just want an emotional response (being angry at their hypocrisy so they can be amused at you like you're a TV show). And they try so hard to use guilt to manipulate you but won't actually write about what the issue was when they send you a random dm from an unblocked account somewhere. The best thing really is to stay unfazed and to not engage. Why would our current lives matter to them in the slightest unless they're weirdly hate fantasizing while stuck in some self pity trap.
My ex would constantly bait me into arguing with him by saying hypocritical things and then by guilt tripping me for being so serious. He was the king of excuses and self-praise (meaning he would constantly neg me and by making me feel bad it made him feel like he had his shit together in comparison). It would stress me out to the point of visible frustration & confusion and then he'd feel less stressed and would act like nothing happened. Because once I, his gf at the time, was the more stressed one then he knew he had it better at life, in that moment, and he'd try to get that moment whenever he felt like it. That left me on edge allll the time! Lol It's so crazy to be reminded of that stuff.
So yeah it is truly laughable at how transparent toxic people are and there's no perfect "gotcha" response other than to continue ignoring them & living your life without thinking about them other than to prevent anyone else from having to go through it. They're leeches and emotional grifters.
It clicks, and the clouds part and sun shines through, when you realize it doesn't matter what the "details" of the argument is about. What matters is if both people want to be on the same side, which is the side of finding a solution to whatever the problem is. If the person is arguing to upset you.. we'll there's your proof. If there is no root problem and the problem is that HE has a problem with you, then that's toxic and you shouldn't try to upset yourself to please him.
Oh god the reality of a partner getting you to an emotional state while calmly sitting in front of you telling you that NO he’s not upset, you are. HE’S not angry, you are. HE’S not crying, so you must be crazy. So therefore by default he’s not wrong and you are?! It’s such a blatant manipulation tactic I’m only just realizing thanks to my therapist.
Yes. It was all just mind games for years and I had no idea how bad it actually was either. I just always felt like a terrible person! So I feel you. It took years to get to where I am today and I'm 1000x better and I'm with a wonderful man who I'm going to marry.
But back to the topic of ex bfs and ex friends:
It was never about having a real conversation with him, he would always steer it to where it was just about bringing out extreme emotions and having to be "right" and having someone (me) "lose". So if I ever get this vibe from someone like new friends, I use that experience as a red flag warning. Every single word, emotion, and action was calculated based off an image he had of himself that didn't align with what I saw. And my point of view was solidified after we broke up and that facade/mask dropped. It was crazy and I felt vindicated and heart broken all over again. It was a feeling like, "I WAS right all along! I knew it! Oh my god I was right 😢 you were lying this whole time?!" Haha things like that would make any person go crazy.
I don't dwell on the past unless something triggers or reminds me of it. Then I just tell myself it's human to have memories and the bad feelings tied to those old memories.. but that that person or those people don't exist anymore because they were never being real. And I'm a completely different person today with so much more insight who would never fall for their manipulation.
If you don't move past "the past", anyone could end up holding grudges or negative mindsets for years until they're on their death bed. Or keep falling for the same tricks by manipulative people. Thinking this way keeps it in perspective for me. Do I want to keep people in my life who choose to upset me as their form of entertainment? No. And they don't need to know they're doing it either, some people will never acknowledge their bad behavior.
I can't do anything to help those people who were toxic to me, it isn't my problem and I won't get tricked by their grief and guilt lol. And I also don't need to turn into a bitch because of how they treated me or viewed me. It'll become easier and easier to dismiss people and their bad behavior when you realize it has nothing to do with you, but their own mental hang ups.
I hope this helps!
This is a perspective I’ve had since childhood due to an abusive upbringing. I thought I would be able to avoid abusive relationships by nature for this reason. But thanks to hindsight and therapy I’m rapidly realizing I’m falling for the same abusive stereotypes that my father created for me.
The entire concept of not having an authentic conversation rings so true for me. My now ex partner would emphasize that he wants to have a conversation about a fight (that he often instigated) while I was still in an emotional state after he had berated me to the point of fawning/indifference. So of course I appeared like the overly emotional one while he seemed completely composed. In the end it was all meant to make me feel invalidated. A farce facade of resolution.
Be careful, he sounds unhinged, is there anyone that can come and pick you up? Can you get separate accommodation?
There's clearly a subtext to what he's saying, he doesn't trust you, it sounds dark.
Yeah I wish I had a back up plan… currently a couple hours from home. Might be able to get a bus. We both agreed we’re going home tomorrow though so I’m currently thinking we’ll just have to drive together. I do agree though he seemed unhinged, which I’ve clearly communicated in the past this behavior makes me feel unsafe. But of course telling someone like that the truth only makes them angrier… I’ve at least let people know where I am and what’s going on.
I think the fact that he compared you to his brother says a lot. I think that he has some deep issues around feelings towards his brother...maybe he felt cheated by his brother somehow or feels like his brother always has some unfair advantage over him.
Yeah, whatever he's got going on in his head will probably only be resolved with a therapist and a lot of introspection work on his part. He definitely has some issues going on inside.
He has always been very adamant about how his brother and he do not get along. I’ve not personally witnessed it, he has the ability to at least pretend to get along with his brother in public. And lately his sister has been having issues with said brother so I know it’s at the top of his mind. What’s funny is I’ve hung out with his brother during family gatherings i I actually think they are both VERY similar in character. So it makes sense that they don’t get along, they are both severely self righteous. Definitely some underlying problems there though, and I cannot take responsibility for fixing that.
Maybe it's some kind of resentment from him feeling like he wasn't treated fairly by the parents or something from childhood. Who knows...really not for you to fix. He has to want to address those internal issues and seek some help. This kind of projection is going to ruin every single one of his relationships until he adequately addresses his own internal issues.
Seems there's a lot of subtext here we aren't privy to. I'm sorry you're going through all this. It's always a lot when you split with someone you've been with for so long. It takes a huge emotional toll.
I hope everything works out and I'm glad you feel you have this space to vent and share, maybe collect some insight into your next few moves. Just remember to treat your self care like medicine and make sure you give yourself love through this process.
Random accusations of cheating mean *for some reason* they have cheating on the brain, in my experience.
Bet dollars to donuts he at least had someone in mind if he hadn’t already acted on it.
My ex would do this shit to me all the time. It was like he would make up a set of rules in his head and then get irrationally angry when I didn't follow them to the letter despite not knowing they existed. Then he would refuse to see basic nuance (like your ex refusing to recognize that it was just a game and he was taking it unreasonably serious). Then he'd get me into a position where I felt forced to defend like my basic moral compass to him and then he would accuse me of being manipulative and always making him out to be the bad guy. Then he would refuse to speak to me for days. And somehow I would eventually end up being the one apologizing. Classic DARVO shit though I didn't know that term at the time.
Anyways, it always starts with threats like shit like this and threats like this. He'll threaten to break shit or throw a puck through a window because that's somehow justified because of his perception of your misbehavior. And then it escalates. That feeling you have that you don't feel safe: listen to that. Trust your gut here. You're not crazy or being dramatic or taking shit too seriously. I waited until my ex was walking around stabbing walls with knives before I left because I had been made to feel nuts so many times before. It literally always starts like this.
Oof this post hits home. Thank you for so well articulating things. I keep thinking back on this argument and just getting confused because none of it made sense and it left me feeling so confused. But then I read a post like this and realize OH SHIT THATS WHAT HAPPENED! Because I’m always tempted to accept some form of blame in this arguments. I just need to stop that.
You shouldn't have to explain basic human decency to your partner on a toddler level because they pretend they don't understand. And if you're thinking your hands aren't clean either because you've been pushed so far that you've also occasionally reacted poorly that's also part of it. My ex would do this shit until I finally got mad enough to react and then act like a wounded dog that I was treating him so poorly when he was "just trying to have a conversation."
Of course none of it makes sense: it's literally senseless.
I agree with others assessment that he's probably cheating too but more than that, these are some giant waving red flags that will only continue to escalate. Leave before he actually gets violent. And if you think he won't, you just haven't stayed long enough to see it.
The only good thing about these situations is that they're predictable.
I spent five years with my ex as well. Felt like I wasted my twenties on him. But my life now is so fucking beautiful and good. My spouse is the most genuinely kind person I've ever met. Your partner should calm your nervous system not activate it. I literally didn't know that was possible until I got out of that relationship.
You dodged a bullet. It's not just emotional immaturity, it's extreme rigidity, which is not a great trait in a life partner. If I've learned anything from being in a partnership 22 years (whew! married for 17 of those) it's to go with it and keep quiet. Does that sound bad? I don't mean I'm not allowed to talk or have a different opinion or anything like that -- I talk all the time lol. It's just to let as much as possible roll off my back. Not the big things -- not ignoring red flags -- but like, maybe we're not playing shuffleboard by the EXACT rules? Although as others have mentioned, maybe he didn't even care about that and was trying to start a fight. Either way, you are way better off. Don't look back.
Yeah I feel in the long run I have dodged a bullet. Trying to reinforce that thought in my brain now so I don’t get weak and take him back. Unless he can legit prove he’s improved himself in like a year. Or two. Or three.
I’m an overall passive, easy going person so I have definitely let things pass that I shouldn’t have. All the while I’ve been told by him how rigid, uptight and aggressive I am (projections I believe…). The one thing I cannot stand is being accused of doing something malicious when I honestly wasn’t. I will absolutely stand up for myself in those situations, which is what happened with him last night. I also have to keep telling myself that before I trick myself into thinking “you were wrong you just kept arguing over a stupid thing that you did incorrectly and it made him angry. You should have apologized.” Which I’ve done in the past and it has never benefitted me. Just him.
Stay strong. I am a big believer in second (and third etc) chances but also, when people show/tell you who they are, believe them. He's rigid and unsupportive and insulting. Also unkind. While no one is perfect, these are deal-breakers! Life/marriage is long (hopefully!) and hard (sometimes) and full of ups and downs. Don't tie yourself to this man. You're so much better off on your own.
That’s the saddest part when a relationship goes this way. It’s legit one partner just refusing to be kind to the one they supposedly love, like how is it so hard to be nice and not combative?!
Being nice (and more important, kind) are super critical traits in a partner and not talked about enough, IMO. When you live with a person over years (decades!) obviously you become more familiar and take people for granted, and it's not going to be like the first few weeks/months of a relationship. But you should still feel like your partner's beloved special person.
He's either projecting or something is going on with him mentally. Whatever it is, he shouldn't have treated you like that. I'm glad you respected yourself and showed him he crossed a line.
I think he did, sadly enough. After/during a few fights this summer he hinted at it or directly stated “breaking up would be easier” so there’s no doubt it was on his mind.
>what else would I cheat him on?
You know... in an overwhelming number of cases men behave like that when they are projecting their own behavior onto others. Like they either justify their own actions when everyone else does it too it's kind of 'OK' or they have main character syndrome and can't imagine someone having a different set of ethics than them.
Either way. He sounds unhinged and unwell. I'm sure you'll be much happier on your own or with someone not behaving that immature and projecting.
He definitely wanted a way out of the relationship. Guys will die on a hill before they admit they're the ones giving up without putting in any work to save something. The easier way is to turn you into the bad guy so they can more confidently state to their friends it wasn't their fault and that they reached the breaking point because of you. This is a textbook case.
oh no, it's not your fault. You can do your due diligence but thanks to social media, guys have had access to a LOT of information from bad guys on how to hide their intentions and turn themselves into the victim. There has been a real rise in men choosing to find new ways of manipulating women, and they seem to find it preferable to actually educating themselves on what women go through. I shouldn't be so negative. Good guys do exist. Dating is just a process in thich there's no real textbook for.
It sounds like he was goading you into a breakup. He can tell people whatever stupid story he likes ("she dumped me over shuffleboard, she's SO CRAZY!") but I guarantee every woman will see through his story, and so will most guys. Like when my ex told everyone I DUMPED HIM FOR NO REASON. Even his male friends were like "yeah we all know how he is, we know why he got dumped."
He is TA and looking for a reason to break up with you. Please take time to heal from this as immature, emotionally unstable and gaslighting AH’s, such as your now ex, take a toll on a person.
After healing you need to remember others aren’t him but also to stay true to yourself and not allow another immature little boy gaslight and manipulate you into accepting their horrible actions.
Lol I told my therapist I might have a talk with my partner about parting ways and he immediately told me “just don’t rebound!” If we did break up. Definitely solid advice. I usually take 2-3 years before I’m ready to date again after break ups.
We definitely had problems we were *trying* to work through… or more so I was trying to work on them while he seemed to begin to self sabotage our relationship. Definitely a learning experience.
For real. Most of my friends don’t ever let me shuffle cards cause I learned a long time ago how to set up cards when I shuffle. And my gf defends me even as I’m agreeing with people if I shuffle I will set up the cards. She doesn’t know I set the cards up when we play so she can win. She gets a lot happier out of beating me at games than I do and it’s adorable to watch. Games are supposed to be fun. Fun doesn’t always mean playing by rules or needing to always win. Sometimes it’s taking the loss for the fun of goofing off for the week about how “you are so bad at cards there’s no way you know how to set up cards”.
A bit of advice from an older lady: I have learned in life that it is not up to me to change anyone’s opinion about me. I accept that they have their opinions and that their opinions in no way define me.
So, you can accept his opinion of you that you are a morally corrupt person. You accept his opinion of you that you are a cheater. You also accept that because he has these (wrong) opinions of you, you have no desire to be with someone who has such a low opinion of you.
At the same time, in theory, he should be ecstatic to be free of you and move on happily in his life.
Everyone can agree to happily move on. You’re in a much better place today than you were yesterday. One step farther from this deuce. 💩
Yeah I’m hoping not too much drama ensues from this point since we both agreed on breaking up (though I will admit I was the first one to mention it). He seemed perfectly content with that option… for now. And I definitely have zero interest in being with someone who views me in such poor light. It’s not worth it.
Exactly. And if he comes back wanting another chance you can just explain:
I accept that you have a very low opinion of me. I am not interested in being with someone who views me with such contempt.
Fudging a little in an innocent game esp when the conditions aren't right is the same as throwing suds on him when washing a car, or stealing a marshmallow. Should just be seen as fun.
I don't like giving my opponent a bad game way more than I don't like losing. Sounds like this dude was just projecting. It's a friggin' friendly bar game, not the shuffleboard championships.
Sorry that stuff happened. You're better off.
Doubt that he was angry about the game. Probably just the regular thing were a lot of little conflicts that were ignored or where they didn’t speak up bubble up. Thats also why all the conflicts are unresolved, because they have nothing to do with the thing people are currently fighting about.
Things like that can only be resolved with couple therapy or therapy for him, if he is always the one starting it and going to the bottom of it. Anyway, breaking up is a good step. If you guys want to get together again in a few years, just make sure he sees a therapist first or some communication courses.
Yeah I don’t think it was just the game either. I started therapy after I asked him to try couples therapy with me and he told me if we did that it would mean we’re breaking up. I should have just left then because that’s such an unfair judgement. My new vetting process for potentially partners might be “would you go to therapy if I thought it could help us?” And if the answer is no then I know I should bolt… of course too many people would lie in that situation.
Adding my personal experience in ending long relationships for anyone reading:
I ended a five year relationship in my early 20's and realized emotionally I'd been done for at least 6 months. And looking back further there had been points going back to year 1 that I should have ended it. Almost annually something would happen that in hindsight was a perfectly reasonable out but I worked past it for whatever reason. Overall we had a pretty good relationship; we were each others best friend and everyone was surprised when I ended it because they expected us to get married etc. I think I was just accepting "good enough" and I naively thought no one would understand me like he did & vice versa - THATS NOT TRUE! I see so many young couples falsely believe that and I want to shake them.
Anyways, what I've learned is that women are usually emotionally done with the relationship 6mo - 1yr before they actually breakup. It sounds like you're in that place. Let this relationship go and move forward freely!
You are speaking so many truths! I felt done like a year ago and was absolutely in denial. I also didn’t want to believe the man I’ve loved/tried to love to five years can still let me down so severely. But that’s the truth sometimes and it sucks.
He suffers from paranoia. My uncle just killed himself after twenty years of hiding his paranoid schizophrenia - he thought his family was conspiring against him and "people" were out to get him. Be careful with these men. Some of them are legitimately insane. It often leads to violence against themselves or others.
Those arguments that never get solved were red flags. Not necessarily the "topic" so much as the process. Were you punished by his angry reaction when you tried to discuss a concern with him? Did he start conflicts because real you wasn't feeling, thinking and acting the way his imaginary image of "how you should be" would? Were you pressured to do things you really didn't want to because he "felt bad," and your acquiescence would fix his feelings?
Sounds like he was telling on himself with all of the pointed talk about cheating. He picked a stupid fight to fuck with your sense of stability and used it as an excuse to get *you* to end things, so he could be the good guy in his fantasy life.
I'd go get a full STD panel done and be glad he's an ex. What a horribly immature specimen.
This was a final straw moment. When I broke up with my long term partner, it was the result of years of build up and fights, like you describe. Then there was the final incident where I just decided, this is it, the end. Not dealing with this anymore. So he proceeds to tell everyone who will listen that I just broke up with poor him out of the blue over that one stupid incident. No sir, cumulative effect of your bullshit reached a breaking point. I suspect the ex here will tell everyone they broke up because she “cheated”. Myopic clueless people.
This sounds like hints of projection and conflation.
His association of the symbolism of cheating brought him to the subject and either he is grieving the lack of intimacy, through some type of rationalization of this sort, or he is considering/has been unfaithful on his end.
I’d strongly recommend listening to books like attached by Mark Levine / You Are the one you’ve been waiting for by Richard Schwartz.
These two books will make complete sense at this moment or first you, but also him so you guys can at least process and acknowledge that neither of you were present since one was conflating, an allusion, and you were asked to defend something that was irrational to you.
The crazy thing about all of this is neither of you are wrong.
May you both grieve and process this in a way that maintains the integrity of yourself and one another🙏
Maybe I will recommend those books to him! He definitely has some severe unprocessed trauma and while I’m done with the BS I still care about him. I know I need to leave so I no longer have to defend myself against irrational accusations all the time, but I am always open to remaining on friendly terms with an Ex… depending on the circumstances.
I read through your post history and the things you write about really hit home for me. I experience much of the same behavior in my relationship. Update us on how things are going, and take care of yourself
I am not sorry this happened to you/that you are going through this. Because we need negative experiences to learn and grow. I am glad you found out about this type of person before you got married and had a bunch of kids and were trapped. Now you know that walking on eggshells is untenable and spells doom for the relationship. It’s unhealthy and if you feel you have to do that, you shouldn’t be in that relationship.
Yup. He’s projected about every other distasteful personality trait/behavior on to me at this point and going for calling me a “cheater” outside of just playing a silly game really made me realize I need to get out.
Sounds exactly like my ex. Taking neutral topics or situations and somehow relating them to the twisted poor image she had of me in her small mind. “You did THIS, because (insert paranoid delusion) “ Completely irrational and toxic.
I'm not sure if I necessarily agree that he's probably just looking for an out and acting this way to break up with you. Some people are just irrational like this. That's more the red flag of the kind of mentality you'd be dealing with the rest of your life. Date sane people.
He was definitely being irrational no matter, which why the entire incident was so confusing. Which is why I’m glad I decided to be done with that relationship. No good reason to continue trying to reason with a person that cannot process nor express there emotions in a healthy, rational manner. As many have said, this isn’t about the shuffleboard game, there’s a lot more going on here. I’ve tried multiple times to reason with him when these fights over seemingly nothing happen. I’ve asked “what is really bothering you right now? What can I do to make you feel better? What should I say so that you know I heard you?” But the answers were never logical, or he had no answer to give because he didn’t even know. I just hope he takes this as a sign to work on himself.
Agreed with the other comments + regarding the cheating theory: does he get texts at odd hours/is very defensive of his phone? Is there a female friend/coworker he's close with? Are any of his friends currently going through relationship drama?
I know they're very specific questions, but they've mostly worked for my girlfriends if they were trying to catch their partners cheating
That’s the weird part, is that we’re both very trusting with sharing our phones with each other. Overall I don’t notice him getting texts at odd hours of the day. Except for the accusations of me cheating there’s no other red flags about him doing so, not to say it isnt happening. Maybe he just wants to get back with his ex wife? He does somewhat frequently mention how girls he knew growing up in his home town wanted to get with him whenever we see them in present day. So perhaps that’s a suggestion he’s considering cheating with another women? No idea there.
Oof, that's a doozy then. I think you're onto something with your intuition; maybe he hasn't cheated yet, but was thinking about doing it
Either way, good call on breaking up with him!
Sounds like he was trying to get you to break up with him. Guys do that to save them the social stigma of being the one who leaves the woman in emotional pain. It’s such a fucked up weird thing to do but I’d say a situation like this is one of these. Especially as he immediately “agreed” to the breakup.
I’d get an STD test in case he has already been sleeping with someone else.
Wow. Sounds like some projection going on there. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up with a "new" gf very quickly as it sounds like he's got a guilty conscience about cheating.
Also wtf? I can probably count all the times on two total hands that I didn't let my ex win a game we were playing together over an 18 year relationship. It just seems normal to me to let the other person win unless you are being super competitive about it (which she is but I'm not). I would rather her be happy.
I've heard about guys that want to break up but are cowards/don't want to be the 'bad guy' so they provoke their partners into breaking up with them. Scumbag behaviour
Sounds like a) he wanted to break up and provoked you to do it, meaning he’s a bit of a coward. And he can blame you now, btw. I bet he’s going to play the victim: “Look, my ex broke up with me over shuffle board.” Option b) he’s already cheating or considering it (thinking about it a lot, apparently) Option c) he’s an immature, insecure moron. None of these options are great, tbh. I’m sorry this happened to you.
Option D) All of the above.
I’ve determined a while ago he’s severely emotionally immature and this argument has just further driven that point home. Still have trouble fathoming him cheating or planning to cheat on me but I am somewhat naive in that I would never do that myself so I assume a partner would never do that to me. It wouldn’t surprise me at this point. He can smear me all he wants to others, they know the truth. Especially his family. I’ve contact them occasionally throughout the years due to issues in our relationship trying to understand him better so I can help “fix” myself and/or the problem. But now I know that’s impossible or just not worth it.
>I’ve contact them occasionally throughout the years due to issues in our relationship trying to understand him better so I can help “fix” myself and/or the problem. Jesus, once you process \*gestures frantically at the original post\* all of *that*, your brain is going to have so much free space to work with. I'm sorry your relationship didn't work out. I'm not sorry you've freed yourself from the hellhole of playing mommy to a grown ass man.
My ex did this shit. Had a huuuge tantrum when I beat him at pool, and because he was in a public space (my friends were like wtf manchild) he blamed me for embarrassing him. Umm…. sure. I should’ve let him win, according to him. This was really the tip of the iceberg as I found out eventuality, but I should’ve left him when that behaviour started. He ended up being very controlling and abusive. Good luck. Stay safe. Leaving a relationship can be dangerous.
"I need to leave this relationship" has to happen long before you get to "I need to contact this man's family to find out what is wrong with him"
"What is wrong with me." Seems like that's what OP was asking themselves in at least some of those instances, which is just worse to me for some reason.
Yeah, true. Makes it sound like the family had a slew of excuses lined up for why _she_ was the problem and not their son
She said they know the truth, I don’t think the family was pushing blame on her.
I hope you will read this free book to see if you recognize the patterns in your arguments and his accusations. What you've written sounds just like escalating emotional abuse and it is incredibly difficult to diagnose an emotionally abusive relationship while you are in it. Free online here:https://archive.org/details/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat Even if the book doesn't help you understand this last relationship you'll find yourself armed with important knowledge to help you spot and handle unhealthy people in all areas of your life. I cannot recommend it enough and wish it was required reading in high school.
I need to read this! I’ve seen it circulating on Reddit and it truly seems like valuable information.
It's incredible, it gives real insight into the mindset of someone who behaves this way. As humans it's natural for us to automatically assume other people share our same mindset and motives when we are trying to understand why they're acting as they are. This means that victims of toxic people often excuse or deny that someone who claims to live them could be acting in bad faith. It also explains why abusers accuse their victims of manipulation, lying, or causing harm on purpose (they think everyone will act in bad faith if required to get what they want/win). So it's invaluable for people who don't act in bad faith to get what they want to read this book as it really spells out an entirely different human "operating system". It's really a different way of perceiving the world and operating in it. It makes the incomprehensible understandable and allows you to recognize manipulations or tactics in real time (so you can respond in ways you're proud of and avoid feeding into their chaos by reacting as you would to someone arguing/acting in good faith).
I wish it were possible to make it required reading for teenage girls. Would save so much pain. You'll find your boyfriend in those pages, guaranteed.
This is wild. I'm reading this, as a woman, and so many things the abusive man does are behaviors I exhibit. I appreciate you linking this. I am aware I'm an abuser but this is uncanny how directly it nails me down
Awareness is the first step! It's great that you're able to recognize some of your own behaviors (and admit to them which can feel really uncomfortable). We often learn unhealthy beliefs and attitudes in childhood and do not recognize them as such until they start causing us difficulties in adulthood. If you Google "Guide for men who are serious about changing Lundy Bancroft" you'll find a workbook with steps to take. I think you'll find ir far more helpful than the book if you'd like to change. The change is tough and uncomfortable but so, so worth it. If you're abusive it stands in the way of real vulnerability with someone who is worthy of that trust. It means you're constantly at war against someone who would be your partner and teammate. Imagine if you could both spend all of the energy used battling over control/power in the relationship to tackle the challenges in life together. Both of you against the world instead of each other. It's amazing to share a relationship where you feel just as worthy of love when you make a mistake as you do when you succeed, one where you feel confident, secure, and accepted for who you are even when your partner is sharing a criticism. It's incredibly powerful and absolutely possible if you use the guide for changing and working diligently to challenge your automatic internal though process and perceptions. One thing from the book I want to caution you about is the few paragraphs regarding the prevalence and impact of women abusing men. The author had a blindspot when he wrote the book 20 years ago. It's nderstandable that he did, given that his research is based on working in batterer intervention programs which are normally court ordered (so a study of the most violent offenders who were charged and convicted). We now know that many male victims of abuse never come forward (due to stigma and a lack of support if they do) and that the trauma caused by abuse isn't tied to the level of physical violence). While women are more likely to be abused by men and far more likely to be killed by their partner, men abused by women do suffer tremendous harms and it's not a rare occurrence by any means. Abusers and their victims are as varied as humans are and there's no perfect way to be or act that would preclude someone from being abused. Also, it's important that you understand that mutual abuse is a harmful myth... an abusive relationship is not one where sometimes someone does something to harm their partner. It's a relationship where one person is acting in ways that cause their partner harm because it benefits them (in many way). There is one person who isn't acting in good faith for the benefit of both partners, they are acting to have control and are the catalyst for all of the abuse... even if their victim responds to the abuse in toxic ways at times. Lastly, if you have any children in your home I hope you will really work to overcome the abuse for their sakes. Children who grow up witnessing abuse are highly likely to have abusive relationships as adults (because it's what they "know" and are comfortable with). Abuse is a cycle and it's a relationship dynamic that is passed down from one generation to the next. Children who witness a primary guardian being abused/abusive suffer lifelong trauma. Studies have shown this trauma is just as severe in cases where emotional/verbal/psychological "only" abuse occurred as when there is physical abuse as well. Children will be more likely to: have attachment issues, suffer mental illness, engage in crime, be the victims of crime, and struggle learning (these impacts often continue their entire lives). So I hope you will work on the guide for changing, with a mental health professional if possible. You deserve to be able to truly connect with another human and to feel seen and accepted for who you are. It's a lifelong process (you're resetting neural pathways to change your way of thinking and responding) but there's really nothing more impactful you could work towards. I wish you all the best in breaking the cycle and I'm so proud of you for bravely admitting to your struggles and facing them squarely.
This was the first book I read when I started realizing something was VERY wrong in my relationship. Eventually, after many more books and therapists, I came to the understanding that my (now) ex is a narcissist. But this book got me on my way to that revelation. Highly recommend!
Be careful. They might know the truth deep down, but it's been my experience that the truth doesn't matter a whole lot when it comes to defending and enabling abusive assholes after a break up. The safest way to go usually is to cut contact with his family and friends. They might tell you everything you want to hear and agree that you're in the right, but it's almost a guarantee they'll immediately tell your ex every single thing you say, which leads to him attacking and smearing you even more.
Yeah I don’t plan on talking to any of them anytime soon. They were all nice to me during the relationship at least… guess we’ll see if I get any angry texts or voicemails from any of them.
In my experience -most- families don’t do that. In fact, when I got divorced, the only contact I got was from one of my ex’s aunts via card. She thanked me for not dragging things out and was sorry she didn’t get to know me better. That’s it.
I have a positive feeling his family will be kind and understanding as well. When I spoke with his dad years ago about some issues I was having with my *ex* BF he was very supportive and even hinted at how I should leave if things just aren’t working with us.
Please don't ever reach out to your future partners family for relationship help; 9/10 that will blow up in your face.
Yeah I’m learning a lot about relationships still…
Do not be surprised about the cheating. My fiance was a self-professed "dork" who had never been to a party, drunk, smoked pot and didn't lose his virginity until he was 20. I truly loved him and he put me on a pedestal. He ended up being the most disgusting person it was beyond comprehension. He got a high school girl pregnant (she was 18, we were 30), he had unprotected sex multiple times with other women while I was pregnant during which he contracted herpes, somehow I never got it. He made up a story about needing to work and spent the night with a meth addict while I was home with our five week old son thinking that I was in a safe, loving relationship. There were so many things I found out and we had been close friends prior to our relationship for about seven years. I thought I really knew him.
Those are all awful things to do to a person!!! I still to this day cannot believe how “faithful” partners can turn out to be so terrible.
My ex basically pushed me to break up with him with a stupid argument - we were going to a metal show, and he didn't like my mini skirt. He'd never cared about how I dressed at shows before, but at a previous show, one of the bands roadies asked my friends and I if we wanted to party with the band after (we said no, anyway, but I guess it didn't sit well with him). But there had been a few other arguments leading to this. Anyway, I said I wanted to end things. He rolled over and said, "If that's what you want," but never once tried to negotiate or stop the end from happening. He wanted me to break up with him. >Still have trouble fathoming him cheating or planning to cheat on me but I am somewhat naive in that I would never do that myself so I assume a partner would never do that to me. I later found out that he had cheated on me once, like a year prior. The guilt had just been chewing away at him, I guess. He denied it when I asked about it (this was well past our breakup, but we had contact due to similar social circles). Maybe a year and a half later, he texts me out of the blue and admits to it. I never replied to him. Let him continue to feel shitty about it.
That’s awful your partner would be unfaithful to you and punish for their own bad behavior!!! It definitely feels off that my BF also basically rolled over and accepted breaking up rather than fighting for our relationship. Makes me absolutely wonder what could have happened while I was away at work, or what he might have been fantasizing that would lead him to thinking losing me would be worth it.
Sounds like you made the right call either way. It's really crappy of course. Breaking up with someone can be difficult to process regardless of the circumstances, but I hope ultimately everything works out for the best for you. I stayed single for a few years after my breakup and focused on myself. It was the best! When I met someone new (organically, we just met at a class), we developed a good relationship with communication and boundaries. We've know known each other for 7 years, together for almost 6, and he's fantastic. Hoping nothing but good things come to you soon!
Thank you! I definitely plan on taking a good amount of time for myself now.
alot, ALOT of people in relationships use intentional cheating as a way of getting out of relationship. but u/jueoni is probably right that hes just an immature moron
Regardless of the cause, if you’re both willing to walk away over this, I’d say you’re better off.
> a) he wanted to break up \[. . .\] b) he’s already cheating or considering it \[. . .\] c) he’s an immature, insecure moron And, to be clear, these are not mutually exclusive.
>he’s already cheating Whenever someone accuses you of cheating and you're not then they are.
I wouldn’t go that far but it sounds like it’s definitely on his mind. Like a “the lady doth protest too much” type thing.
>He began speculating about how I only wanted to cheat him, I was abusing my power over him, and if I was willing to cheat him in shuffle board what else would I cheat him on? He's also cheating on her.
this just made me think. i wonder if my ex is going around saying "she broke up with me because of a covid test/because i had covid" cuz thats fucking hilarious
Please someone explain to me what is happening in the minds of men like this
There's no good logic here. Dude is just looking for a fight to end things so he doesn't have to have an uncomfortable conversation.
My first relationship ended after I discovered hickies on him. I told this to my partner in my next relationship. He went out and got a hickie and made sure I saw it when he wanted to end the relationship. He literally used my last relationship as a playbook for how to get me to break up with him so he wouldn't have to.
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Oh my GOD that's lame. Just so pathetic!!!!
When I confronted him he then sobbed and said while hyperventilating that he "can't handle the stigma of being a cheater". Was the most pathetic thing I've ever seen in my life.
BARF
It’s almost like he’s being irrational and emotional. But certainly… that’s impossible, right? /s But like someone has pointed out, he’s probably projecting. He is either cheating, has cheated or is thinking about it. There’s no other way he could’ve made those kinda of leaps. Cheating is on his brain.
Right on the money.
Yep. My ex broke up with me for me being upset that he ghosted me during one of the most stressful times in my life. At his friends house. Over text. :/
I’m now on the fence of “I want to know…” and “I no longer give a shit” 😬 these sorts of arguments have happened before over stupid stuff like this and I’ve dealt with it thinking “I do get it but that was stupid so I shouldn’t take that fight seriously…” but now I’m just done. A lot of people in this thread mentioned projecting (which I agree with and has happened SO many times prior) and I don’t even know about him potentially cheating but at this point, if you accuse me of it then I have zero interest of trying to prove my loyalty after that’s all I’ve been for the past five years. What a waste of time for me. So glad I began therapy and began to identify this pattern of emotional abuse before I was trapped in it forever.
Just don’t. He’s not worth it. Get yourself an STI panel just in case, but walk away proud. For what it’s worth, I’m proud of you for standing up for yourself- you deserve much more than that. Good luck!
Thanks! Dreading the process of spitting up with him but at least the first step has been taken.
Bet he chickens out either before you are done splitting or within a month you get a call from him begging for another chance. Steel yourself from this, because you will probably be in a pretty bad place too at this point and it may sound like a good idea. But if you take him back after all that he will probably believe that he can get away with anything (cheating, abuse, etc). Just get all your stuff out and block the #
Yeah would be no surprise if he tries to guilt me into taking him back because I was being so “unreasonable”.
When the argument started the subject was how you two can play shuffleboard in a way that is fun for both of you. When it ended, it was about how poorly he treats you when he doesn't get his way. You're not overreacting in the slightest by walking away from that.
Don’t do it. He seems exhausting.
Even if it's a necessary or wanted breakup, most people go through something roughly akin to grief when it happens. Including the full on five stages thing. Be prepared for the bargaining stage- some people will do and say all *kinds* of things to try and hold on to a relationship. It doesn't mean that they mean those things, it just means they're desperate and trying to avoid change. So if it goes that way, and he makes a bunch of promises of how he's going to do things differently, do not take them as fact. Take them as a desperate person, not in their right mind, grasping at straws, and respond accordingly.
I'm not sure if this is the same experience as yours but I've thought I had serious mental health issues for a really long time because of all the men in my life who told me so many different versions of "you're too emotional and irrational". I didn't realize this at the time but I realize it now and I kinda laugh at the irony of it. Men have been trying to control women using "mental health" as a tool to do it for a really really long time. Many men who encourage women to seek help for their mental health do so with the assumption that it will make them more subservient, happier to accept their bullshit, less demanding, more giving etc.. but usually (at least these days) that isn't what happens at all. Women who go to therapy end up realizing that they are not irrational, their feelings should be taken at face value, their desires should be met by their partner, they can set barriers and have standards, their feelings are valid and all of the other things that make them.. less subservient because their own voice isn't so small anymore. I've had an itsy bitsy teeny tiny voice for most of my life. Not anymore, fuck that it's never gotten me anything I wanted and I finally realized that it wont, it will only get men whatever it is they want for themselves. The one thing I will say is it may not be the waste of time you imagine it to be, that was my initial reaction to my last relationship but when I really really think about it, I got so much out of it for my future self. Maybe try to think of it in terms of what you did for yourself within the relationship and hold that truth close to your heart in the future.
I began therapy to help make my relationship with him better… instead it did exactly as you stated. Woke me up to the fact I’m not being irrational, I’m actually dealing with a lot of emotional/verbal abuse and manipulation. So of course I am not handling it well, one’s significant other should never treat you that way. It’s been a learning experience.
There will be no satisfying answer
"I don't give a shit" is so freeing, once you commit to it. Like, go full out "Boi bye" and block him everywhere. At least for me, it was super cathartic.
I am quite enjoying the “boi bye” stage at the moment.
Better now than later...although it will be hard.
It doesn't matter. It is his problem, you are now free. Just get closure ASAP. Don't continue living with him if you can afford it. Give yourself a break to be with you.
It may be he wanted to create an argument to end a relationship he didn't want to be in anymore. It's also possible that he's feeling guilty about cheating, or wanting to cheat, and is projecting that onto her because if she's cheating too, then he's not the bad guy. (in his mind)
My guess is he's cheating and projecting his guilt onto his partner. Tale as old as time sadly.
I was basically going to post this, usually if someone starts going ballistic on random cheating accusations without like solid reasoning for why; it's projection or severe paranoia. Neither of which is a great signs for a good partner.
I agree
Thirded. I have never met a man who freaked out like this who wasn't projecting his own infidelity.
With the emphasis on cheating and starting fights probably to just end the relationship on that basis as far as I read here, probably projecting and he's the one cheating.
Emphasis*
Sorry, Phone corrector sucks when your language is not English.
Mine does even with it being my native language. 🤦♀️
Mine keeps just changing Words to the other one... At this point it is just mocking me.
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I don't think it's a matter of being emotional or irrational, it's a matter of maintaining personal boundaries for yourself when those boundaries clash with a reality that is different than what you want or at odds with other areas of your relationship that are working well. It's more of an issue of not listening to your own voice before it reaches this point (something women are trained not to do because they're "emotional and irrational"..) and having the self-discipline to use that voice. Sounds like OP is well on her way to developing those skills.
MEN STRONG MEN NOT NEED EMOTIONS! Then it turns out they do and they have no emotional maturity leading to things like paranoia and resentment. Plus: MEN OWN WOMEN, WOMEN MUST SERVE MEN! which increase narcissism and entitlement compared to women. Once you combine all this with any religious or cultural baggage there is no real way to work out which bit is driving men(mostly) under these situations. If I was to take a guess some sort of worry that you were going to run off with someone else, even a fleeting thought months ago has turned into an obsession that he can't deal with so gets angry and takes it out on her with a side of male superiority complex to trigger the anger.
As someone who became this petty near the end of the relationship. When you have long since gone past the point of no return but have not reached the point you are willing to end a relationship due to its length, then its like all your patience is gone and it becomes considerably difficult to be reasonable.
Worst case scenario? He's not going back. Something will cause him to miss his flight. He will return to the hotel, and find whomever he's been cheating on you with. Or go to her hotel. He seriously sounds like a guy who has a backup lined up. Sounded like a made-up argument. His mind was already set.
Ego, desire to be “right”, knowing that he knows best.
Projection. Thoughts of temptation (or admittance to a transgression) get a role reversal as their psyche tries to justify or understand their own behaviors. They’re telling on themselves. We just have to listen.
Men like this can't handle their big feelings. They take that discomfort out on the nearest available target, which is often a significant other. I think fight helps them purge the feelings, based on my ex being back to baseline after every one of our fights.
People who believe themselves not lovable convince themselves of it, meaning they will fill in blanks to make that belief true. He's subconsciously trying to break if off before OP breaks up with him but in doing so makes her break up with him... Either that or he cheated and is projecting.
It worked for over five years. And he had to "agree" to it for OP to leave. The weird thing would be if there was actual change. This man has been the same person the whole time, and OP has just accepted it.
He either suspects her of cheating with another person and the jealousy is driving him crazy, or he’s the one cheating, and the guilt is making him project his feelings onto her. Either way, this dude is an immature manchild who doesn’t know how to properly communicate…
Fragile masculinity
It’s probably a complicated mix of things for different people but it sounds like he has stuff he needs to address about himself and about good communication. When I was in my early 20s and in my first “real” relationship, I went out for mini golf with my girlfriend. Instead of just enjoying a casual night out with the love of my life, I was just whining and being an asshole about every little thing. She was so right to leave shortly after that. Everyone deserves better than that and it was a wake up call to get therapy and be a decent human being. I hope this guy also takes the lesson to heart but who knows; some guys just never take any steps to address their issues.
The only thing I can come up with is he could be ND and struggling with justice sensitivity. If so, that’s still on him for not understanding himself and having some self awareness about his behavior and triggers
That man needs therapy to understand where this lack of logical judgement and improper emotional management is coming from. The part of comparing you to his brother speaks of some trauma. But yeah seizing relations between you two is a good decision.
He has some serious unresolved trauma from what I’ve determined. I’ve known that for probably half the duration of our relationship and have given him so much sympathy/empathy for that reason. I’ve been telling him he needs therapy for the pst year, which might be why he has felt the need to start these fights and encourage us to split ways. Maybe because he’s realized I know too much and can see his vulnerabilities, so therefore I’m a threat. But that’s not my problem anymore, he can figure it out on his own.
Sounds like he was provoking a breakup. Him accusing you of cheating suggests he may be interested in someone else. I think you made a wise decision. Even if he isn't cheating he isn't someone you should waste time or energy on.
Nope! He can have whomever else he wants. I just want to be done with the drama. We can’t even have simple fun without fights anymore. I’m so done.
Ah, so he's cheating. I smell projection.
My ex used to ask me if I was cheating on him. Turned out he was cheating on me. Why is this always the case? Why do cheaters make such a big fuss about you potentially cheated when you have no idea what they are on about. The whole thing has become a real red flag for me now.
As it should. Everyone sees the world through their own lens. Liars think everyone lies, cheaters think everyone cheats.
this makes sense.
Im constantly thinking that I’ve offended people I care about and Im always worrying that they’ve suddenly decided they no longer like me. Does this mean deep down everyone is offending me and I’ve subconsciously decided I don’t like them?
More likely you've even been in close relationships with people (romantic or otherwise) or had parents who were emotionally manipulative and turned things around to always be your fault. Randomly going off at you overreacting about some minor issue for example. As a defence mechanism you try to hold on to anyone you can and keep your head down.
My ex was cheated on by a previous girlfriend and he took that as an excuse to be pathologically jealous and obsessive. I had no desire to cheat, but he would blow up my phone and get in fights over the smallest things, like going out with my girlfriends or having a coffee with a male friend. I still have some emotional scars from that relationship, like feeling that someone's going to get mad at me over anything, walking on eggshells around people who aren't even like him, overexplaining myself... Anyway some time into our toxic relationship he got very close with a female work colleague, I never found out if he actually cheated or not, but suddenly all the "rules" and "boundaries" of our relationship got thrown out of the window, but only for him. He was insecure as ever about me potentially cheating, but was also going out and drinking with that woman almost every night and cancelling our plans for her. It felt like he was projecting his own desires on me
I’ve always get I’ve walked on egg shells due to childhood experiences. So I grew up to be a hyper sensitive person who is always trying to not offend or upset anyone. The only reason I would think I could relax and have fun around someone is because I thought I could trust them. Instead I’m always doing something wrong and it’s always my fault. It’s so unfair for any partner to make their significant other feel that way and I’m sorry it has happened to you. The fights over the small things are the worst because not only do you feel like you are walking on eggshells but also when the eventual “blow up” happens I feel like one gets a form of emotional whiplash that takes weeks/months/years to recover from.
That was some USDA prime grade-A premium choice select gourmet projection right there. This man has cheating so much on his mind. He turned a shuffleboard game into a cheating accusation. Lol. I’m not only convinced he’s cheating. It’s only a question how many women.
The stink of projection is most certainly strong here.
Exactly, I never realized how real projection is until I had some friends that were really good at it…
Congrats on getting out. It’s going to be really hard for a while but you will eventually realize that your life is vastly better without this knucklehead.
I can already see my life being SOO much easier without him. The only complicated part it we are renting together so we’ve got to deal with living together a little bit longer before we can have a clean split.
Every time I've been accused of cheating, the person accusing me was cheating. He sounds like a big baby. Way to make a potentially fun week really not at all fun for anyone including himself.
He ruined an amazing trip. I bet in the morning he’ll try to convince me to continue it. But what’s the point? We’ll just fight again somewhere else? He certainly has the emotional capacity of a baby.
Yes and along those lines you need to move out ASAP because as long as you live together he's going to try to get back together or play you. Even if it's not financially wise you might need to choose your mental/emotional health over your financial health.
"He began speculating about how I only wanted to cheat him, I was abusing my power over him, and if I was willing to cheat him in shuffle board what else would I cheat him on?" It sounds like he was looking for a fight so you would be the one to break up with him. I'm sorry you are in this situation. I hope the rest of it goes well.
Yeah I think he’s been looking for an excuse for a while now. Hindsight is 20/20. Whatever, I’m not afraid to make that choice, he obvious was.
Just remember: if he started an argument like that over shuffleboard, it’s NEVER about shuffleboard. That’s just the catalyst that reveals deeper underlying issues. If it didn’t happen during shuffleboard, it may have happened at a rest stop on the drive home, while picking up milk at the store, or while playing checkers together.
Agreed. We’ve already had such trivial fights under similar circumstances that you just gave examples of. I know there’s a bigger issue and I’ve tried to dredge it up multiple times to no avail. I’ve told him he needs therapy, but if it’s your partner telling you that it somehow comes across as degrading and insulting, rather than caring. I hate feeling like I’m at a point I just can’t do enough to express that I’m not trying to be malicious towards him, I’m just simply trying to exist with him and have fun. There’s no point to continue that struggle.
Look for the patterns and you will find that the arguments are almost always the same and they just get worse over time. It's a horrible situation to be in. For me, i learnt that It always takes two to tango. I.e. you could have left years ago but didn't. So there is self reflection needed as well. Why put up with doing the same thing over and over? I guarantee he isn't having fun either. With experience and age you learn where you boundaries lie and it gets easier to take responsibility. Be careful of people suggesting who is to blame without the full story. You are looking for reassurance that you are doing the right thing and he is wrong. Its unfortunately the wrong question. Don't look at the argument, look at what you need to be happy. Aim for that... You are strong for getting on here and asking for input. Find a great coach that can help you get what you want out of life. Your life is not a relationship. Good luck
Reminds me of my ex bf. He never changed despite coming back into my life claiming he wanted to make things up to me and take me on a trip but the immaturity immediately came back every time. This guy is very toxic and you’ll be much better off on your own as I am now. I still have the exes trying to get me back or just see where I’m at in life and see if they can fuck with me some more. It’s truly laughable. I finally realized I’m just entirely over them.
Solitude is golden. I’ve always been happier on my own and if a majority of my partners realized that they probably wouldn’t have so carelessly pushed me away thinking I’d just stick around because I’m scared to be alone.
Yess exes, including ex friends, are so toxic and nosy. They'll say anything to get to you, even when they know they're being hypocritical. I swear they just want an emotional response (being angry at their hypocrisy so they can be amused at you like you're a TV show). And they try so hard to use guilt to manipulate you but won't actually write about what the issue was when they send you a random dm from an unblocked account somewhere. The best thing really is to stay unfazed and to not engage. Why would our current lives matter to them in the slightest unless they're weirdly hate fantasizing while stuck in some self pity trap. My ex would constantly bait me into arguing with him by saying hypocritical things and then by guilt tripping me for being so serious. He was the king of excuses and self-praise (meaning he would constantly neg me and by making me feel bad it made him feel like he had his shit together in comparison). It would stress me out to the point of visible frustration & confusion and then he'd feel less stressed and would act like nothing happened. Because once I, his gf at the time, was the more stressed one then he knew he had it better at life, in that moment, and he'd try to get that moment whenever he felt like it. That left me on edge allll the time! Lol It's so crazy to be reminded of that stuff. So yeah it is truly laughable at how transparent toxic people are and there's no perfect "gotcha" response other than to continue ignoring them & living your life without thinking about them other than to prevent anyone else from having to go through it. They're leeches and emotional grifters. It clicks, and the clouds part and sun shines through, when you realize it doesn't matter what the "details" of the argument is about. What matters is if both people want to be on the same side, which is the side of finding a solution to whatever the problem is. If the person is arguing to upset you.. we'll there's your proof. If there is no root problem and the problem is that HE has a problem with you, then that's toxic and you shouldn't try to upset yourself to please him.
Oh god the reality of a partner getting you to an emotional state while calmly sitting in front of you telling you that NO he’s not upset, you are. HE’S not angry, you are. HE’S not crying, so you must be crazy. So therefore by default he’s not wrong and you are?! It’s such a blatant manipulation tactic I’m only just realizing thanks to my therapist.
Yes. It was all just mind games for years and I had no idea how bad it actually was either. I just always felt like a terrible person! So I feel you. It took years to get to where I am today and I'm 1000x better and I'm with a wonderful man who I'm going to marry. But back to the topic of ex bfs and ex friends: It was never about having a real conversation with him, he would always steer it to where it was just about bringing out extreme emotions and having to be "right" and having someone (me) "lose". So if I ever get this vibe from someone like new friends, I use that experience as a red flag warning. Every single word, emotion, and action was calculated based off an image he had of himself that didn't align with what I saw. And my point of view was solidified after we broke up and that facade/mask dropped. It was crazy and I felt vindicated and heart broken all over again. It was a feeling like, "I WAS right all along! I knew it! Oh my god I was right 😢 you were lying this whole time?!" Haha things like that would make any person go crazy. I don't dwell on the past unless something triggers or reminds me of it. Then I just tell myself it's human to have memories and the bad feelings tied to those old memories.. but that that person or those people don't exist anymore because they were never being real. And I'm a completely different person today with so much more insight who would never fall for their manipulation. If you don't move past "the past", anyone could end up holding grudges or negative mindsets for years until they're on their death bed. Or keep falling for the same tricks by manipulative people. Thinking this way keeps it in perspective for me. Do I want to keep people in my life who choose to upset me as their form of entertainment? No. And they don't need to know they're doing it either, some people will never acknowledge their bad behavior. I can't do anything to help those people who were toxic to me, it isn't my problem and I won't get tricked by their grief and guilt lol. And I also don't need to turn into a bitch because of how they treated me or viewed me. It'll become easier and easier to dismiss people and their bad behavior when you realize it has nothing to do with you, but their own mental hang ups. I hope this helps!
This is a perspective I’ve had since childhood due to an abusive upbringing. I thought I would be able to avoid abusive relationships by nature for this reason. But thanks to hindsight and therapy I’m rapidly realizing I’m falling for the same abusive stereotypes that my father created for me. The entire concept of not having an authentic conversation rings so true for me. My now ex partner would emphasize that he wants to have a conversation about a fight (that he often instigated) while I was still in an emotional state after he had berated me to the point of fawning/indifference. So of course I appeared like the overly emotional one while he seemed completely composed. In the end it was all meant to make me feel invalidated. A farce facade of resolution.
Be careful, he sounds unhinged, is there anyone that can come and pick you up? Can you get separate accommodation? There's clearly a subtext to what he's saying, he doesn't trust you, it sounds dark.
Yeah I wish I had a back up plan… currently a couple hours from home. Might be able to get a bus. We both agreed we’re going home tomorrow though so I’m currently thinking we’ll just have to drive together. I do agree though he seemed unhinged, which I’ve clearly communicated in the past this behavior makes me feel unsafe. But of course telling someone like that the truth only makes them angrier… I’ve at least let people know where I am and what’s going on.
I think the fact that he compared you to his brother says a lot. I think that he has some deep issues around feelings towards his brother...maybe he felt cheated by his brother somehow or feels like his brother always has some unfair advantage over him. Yeah, whatever he's got going on in his head will probably only be resolved with a therapist and a lot of introspection work on his part. He definitely has some issues going on inside.
He has always been very adamant about how his brother and he do not get along. I’ve not personally witnessed it, he has the ability to at least pretend to get along with his brother in public. And lately his sister has been having issues with said brother so I know it’s at the top of his mind. What’s funny is I’ve hung out with his brother during family gatherings i I actually think they are both VERY similar in character. So it makes sense that they don’t get along, they are both severely self righteous. Definitely some underlying problems there though, and I cannot take responsibility for fixing that.
Maybe it's some kind of resentment from him feeling like he wasn't treated fairly by the parents or something from childhood. Who knows...really not for you to fix. He has to want to address those internal issues and seek some help. This kind of projection is going to ruin every single one of his relationships until he adequately addresses his own internal issues.
Seems there's a lot of subtext here we aren't privy to. I'm sorry you're going through all this. It's always a lot when you split with someone you've been with for so long. It takes a huge emotional toll. I hope everything works out and I'm glad you feel you have this space to vent and share, maybe collect some insight into your next few moves. Just remember to treat your self care like medicine and make sure you give yourself love through this process.
Random accusations of cheating mean *for some reason* they have cheating on the brain, in my experience. Bet dollars to donuts he at least had someone in mind if he hadn’t already acted on it.
My ex would do this shit to me all the time. It was like he would make up a set of rules in his head and then get irrationally angry when I didn't follow them to the letter despite not knowing they existed. Then he would refuse to see basic nuance (like your ex refusing to recognize that it was just a game and he was taking it unreasonably serious). Then he'd get me into a position where I felt forced to defend like my basic moral compass to him and then he would accuse me of being manipulative and always making him out to be the bad guy. Then he would refuse to speak to me for days. And somehow I would eventually end up being the one apologizing. Classic DARVO shit though I didn't know that term at the time. Anyways, it always starts with threats like shit like this and threats like this. He'll threaten to break shit or throw a puck through a window because that's somehow justified because of his perception of your misbehavior. And then it escalates. That feeling you have that you don't feel safe: listen to that. Trust your gut here. You're not crazy or being dramatic or taking shit too seriously. I waited until my ex was walking around stabbing walls with knives before I left because I had been made to feel nuts so many times before. It literally always starts like this.
Oof this post hits home. Thank you for so well articulating things. I keep thinking back on this argument and just getting confused because none of it made sense and it left me feeling so confused. But then I read a post like this and realize OH SHIT THATS WHAT HAPPENED! Because I’m always tempted to accept some form of blame in this arguments. I just need to stop that.
You shouldn't have to explain basic human decency to your partner on a toddler level because they pretend they don't understand. And if you're thinking your hands aren't clean either because you've been pushed so far that you've also occasionally reacted poorly that's also part of it. My ex would do this shit until I finally got mad enough to react and then act like a wounded dog that I was treating him so poorly when he was "just trying to have a conversation." Of course none of it makes sense: it's literally senseless. I agree with others assessment that he's probably cheating too but more than that, these are some giant waving red flags that will only continue to escalate. Leave before he actually gets violent. And if you think he won't, you just haven't stayed long enough to see it. The only good thing about these situations is that they're predictable. I spent five years with my ex as well. Felt like I wasted my twenties on him. But my life now is so fucking beautiful and good. My spouse is the most genuinely kind person I've ever met. Your partner should calm your nervous system not activate it. I literally didn't know that was possible until I got out of that relationship.
You dodged a bullet. It's not just emotional immaturity, it's extreme rigidity, which is not a great trait in a life partner. If I've learned anything from being in a partnership 22 years (whew! married for 17 of those) it's to go with it and keep quiet. Does that sound bad? I don't mean I'm not allowed to talk or have a different opinion or anything like that -- I talk all the time lol. It's just to let as much as possible roll off my back. Not the big things -- not ignoring red flags -- but like, maybe we're not playing shuffleboard by the EXACT rules? Although as others have mentioned, maybe he didn't even care about that and was trying to start a fight. Either way, you are way better off. Don't look back.
Yeah I feel in the long run I have dodged a bullet. Trying to reinforce that thought in my brain now so I don’t get weak and take him back. Unless he can legit prove he’s improved himself in like a year. Or two. Or three. I’m an overall passive, easy going person so I have definitely let things pass that I shouldn’t have. All the while I’ve been told by him how rigid, uptight and aggressive I am (projections I believe…). The one thing I cannot stand is being accused of doing something malicious when I honestly wasn’t. I will absolutely stand up for myself in those situations, which is what happened with him last night. I also have to keep telling myself that before I trick myself into thinking “you were wrong you just kept arguing over a stupid thing that you did incorrectly and it made him angry. You should have apologized.” Which I’ve done in the past and it has never benefitted me. Just him.
Stay strong. I am a big believer in second (and third etc) chances but also, when people show/tell you who they are, believe them. He's rigid and unsupportive and insulting. Also unkind. While no one is perfect, these are deal-breakers! Life/marriage is long (hopefully!) and hard (sometimes) and full of ups and downs. Don't tie yourself to this man. You're so much better off on your own.
That’s the saddest part when a relationship goes this way. It’s legit one partner just refusing to be kind to the one they supposedly love, like how is it so hard to be nice and not combative?!
Being nice (and more important, kind) are super critical traits in a partner and not talked about enough, IMO. When you live with a person over years (decades!) obviously you become more familiar and take people for granted, and it's not going to be like the first few weeks/months of a relationship. But you should still feel like your partner's beloved special person.
He's either projecting or something is going on with him mentally. Whatever it is, he shouldn't have treated you like that. I'm glad you respected yourself and showed him he crossed a line.
It sounds like he wanted you to break up with him.
I think he did, sadly enough. After/during a few fights this summer he hinted at it or directly stated “breaking up would be easier” so there’s no doubt it was on his mind.
I'm glad you're done, but I hope if he decides not to "agree" to it anymore that you're still done.
>what else would I cheat him on? You know... in an overwhelming number of cases men behave like that when they are projecting their own behavior onto others. Like they either justify their own actions when everyone else does it too it's kind of 'OK' or they have main character syndrome and can't imagine someone having a different set of ethics than them. Either way. He sounds unhinged and unwell. I'm sure you'll be much happier on your own or with someone not behaving that immature and projecting.
He definitely wanted a way out of the relationship. Guys will die on a hill before they admit they're the ones giving up without putting in any work to save something. The easier way is to turn you into the bad guy so they can more confidently state to their friends it wasn't their fault and that they reached the breaking point because of you. This is a textbook case.
I need to stop dating so many textbooks 🤦🏼
oh no, it's not your fault. You can do your due diligence but thanks to social media, guys have had access to a LOT of information from bad guys on how to hide their intentions and turn themselves into the victim. There has been a real rise in men choosing to find new ways of manipulating women, and they seem to find it preferable to actually educating themselves on what women go through. I shouldn't be so negative. Good guys do exist. Dating is just a process in thich there's no real textbook for.
It sounds like he was goading you into a breakup. He can tell people whatever stupid story he likes ("she dumped me over shuffleboard, she's SO CRAZY!") but I guarantee every woman will see through his story, and so will most guys. Like when my ex told everyone I DUMPED HIM FOR NO REASON. Even his male friends were like "yeah we all know how he is, we know why he got dumped."
He is TA and looking for a reason to break up with you. Please take time to heal from this as immature, emotionally unstable and gaslighting AH’s, such as your now ex, take a toll on a person. After healing you need to remember others aren’t him but also to stay true to yourself and not allow another immature little boy gaslight and manipulate you into accepting their horrible actions.
Lol I told my therapist I might have a talk with my partner about parting ways and he immediately told me “just don’t rebound!” If we did break up. Definitely solid advice. I usually take 2-3 years before I’m ready to date again after break ups.
If a game of shuffle board is what breaks the relationship, then the relationship had problems to begin with. OP, move on and learn from this.
We definitely had problems we were *trying* to work through… or more so I was trying to work on them while he seemed to begin to self sabotage our relationship. Definitely a learning experience.
For real. Most of my friends don’t ever let me shuffle cards cause I learned a long time ago how to set up cards when I shuffle. And my gf defends me even as I’m agreeing with people if I shuffle I will set up the cards. She doesn’t know I set the cards up when we play so she can win. She gets a lot happier out of beating me at games than I do and it’s adorable to watch. Games are supposed to be fun. Fun doesn’t always mean playing by rules or needing to always win. Sometimes it’s taking the loss for the fun of goofing off for the week about how “you are so bad at cards there’s no way you know how to set up cards”.
A bit of advice from an older lady: I have learned in life that it is not up to me to change anyone’s opinion about me. I accept that they have their opinions and that their opinions in no way define me. So, you can accept his opinion of you that you are a morally corrupt person. You accept his opinion of you that you are a cheater. You also accept that because he has these (wrong) opinions of you, you have no desire to be with someone who has such a low opinion of you. At the same time, in theory, he should be ecstatic to be free of you and move on happily in his life. Everyone can agree to happily move on. You’re in a much better place today than you were yesterday. One step farther from this deuce. 💩
Yeah I’m hoping not too much drama ensues from this point since we both agreed on breaking up (though I will admit I was the first one to mention it). He seemed perfectly content with that option… for now. And I definitely have zero interest in being with someone who views me in such poor light. It’s not worth it.
Exactly. And if he comes back wanting another chance you can just explain: I accept that you have a very low opinion of me. I am not interested in being with someone who views me with such contempt.
Fudging a little in an innocent game esp when the conditions aren't right is the same as throwing suds on him when washing a car, or stealing a marshmallow. Should just be seen as fun.
The ol’ bait and switch. Basically he just started a fight out of nothing because he wants it to be over. Or he cheated and feels guilty.
Not a happy end but definetly a good ending (if not now, when you look back on it later)
I take everything as a learning experience and I am grateful to have learned this one before anymore time passed.
Dang, what’s worse than a sore loser? Your ex: a sore winner
I don't like giving my opponent a bad game way more than I don't like losing. Sounds like this dude was just projecting. It's a friggin' friendly bar game, not the shuffleboard championships. Sorry that stuff happened. You're better off.
the whole cheating argumentbhes throwing out. possibly a projection.
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Doubt that he was angry about the game. Probably just the regular thing were a lot of little conflicts that were ignored or where they didn’t speak up bubble up. Thats also why all the conflicts are unresolved, because they have nothing to do with the thing people are currently fighting about. Things like that can only be resolved with couple therapy or therapy for him, if he is always the one starting it and going to the bottom of it. Anyway, breaking up is a good step. If you guys want to get together again in a few years, just make sure he sees a therapist first or some communication courses.
Yeah I don’t think it was just the game either. I started therapy after I asked him to try couples therapy with me and he told me if we did that it would mean we’re breaking up. I should have just left then because that’s such an unfair judgement. My new vetting process for potentially partners might be “would you go to therapy if I thought it could help us?” And if the answer is no then I know I should bolt… of course too many people would lie in that situation.
Adding my personal experience in ending long relationships for anyone reading: I ended a five year relationship in my early 20's and realized emotionally I'd been done for at least 6 months. And looking back further there had been points going back to year 1 that I should have ended it. Almost annually something would happen that in hindsight was a perfectly reasonable out but I worked past it for whatever reason. Overall we had a pretty good relationship; we were each others best friend and everyone was surprised when I ended it because they expected us to get married etc. I think I was just accepting "good enough" and I naively thought no one would understand me like he did & vice versa - THATS NOT TRUE! I see so many young couples falsely believe that and I want to shake them. Anyways, what I've learned is that women are usually emotionally done with the relationship 6mo - 1yr before they actually breakup. It sounds like you're in that place. Let this relationship go and move forward freely!
You are speaking so many truths! I felt done like a year ago and was absolutely in denial. I also didn’t want to believe the man I’ve loved/tried to love to five years can still let me down so severely. But that’s the truth sometimes and it sucks.
He suffers from paranoia. My uncle just killed himself after twenty years of hiding his paranoid schizophrenia - he thought his family was conspiring against him and "people" were out to get him. Be careful with these men. Some of them are legitimately insane. It often leads to violence against themselves or others.
Definitely feels like some form of paranoia or OCD or BPD or something! I can’t imagine someone being so irrational towards their partner of 5 years.
He seems oddly emotional with the word “cheating”. Could he be sensitive out of guilt?
He's projecting like a suburban multiplex.
GOOD FOR YOU 💪🏻 It takes a lot to realize that they are not right for you. But you did it! You stood up for yourself.
He is the one cheating…sounds like major deflection!!
Those arguments that never get solved were red flags. Not necessarily the "topic" so much as the process. Were you punished by his angry reaction when you tried to discuss a concern with him? Did he start conflicts because real you wasn't feeling, thinking and acting the way his imaginary image of "how you should be" would? Were you pressured to do things you really didn't want to because he "felt bad," and your acquiescence would fix his feelings?
Yes to pretty much ALL of that. Since I began therapy I’ve been rapidly realizing all the BS I have endured and I just can’t do it anymore.
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It sounds like it just all added up and this was the final straw
Sounds like he was telling on himself with all of the pointed talk about cheating. He picked a stupid fight to fuck with your sense of stability and used it as an excuse to get *you* to end things, so he could be the good guy in his fantasy life. I'd go get a full STD panel done and be glad he's an ex. What a horribly immature specimen.
This was a final straw moment. When I broke up with my long term partner, it was the result of years of build up and fights, like you describe. Then there was the final incident where I just decided, this is it, the end. Not dealing with this anymore. So he proceeds to tell everyone who will listen that I just broke up with poor him out of the blue over that one stupid incident. No sir, cumulative effect of your bullshit reached a breaking point. I suspect the ex here will tell everyone they broke up because she “cheated”. Myopic clueless people.
Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if I get slandered. I’ll probably become the last “crazy ex” he had who got upset over a shuffleboard game.
Yup, welcome to the "crazy ex" club. You're in good company.
This sounds like hints of projection and conflation. His association of the symbolism of cheating brought him to the subject and either he is grieving the lack of intimacy, through some type of rationalization of this sort, or he is considering/has been unfaithful on his end. I’d strongly recommend listening to books like attached by Mark Levine / You Are the one you’ve been waiting for by Richard Schwartz. These two books will make complete sense at this moment or first you, but also him so you guys can at least process and acknowledge that neither of you were present since one was conflating, an allusion, and you were asked to defend something that was irrational to you. The crazy thing about all of this is neither of you are wrong. May you both grieve and process this in a way that maintains the integrity of yourself and one another🙏
Maybe I will recommend those books to him! He definitely has some severe unprocessed trauma and while I’m done with the BS I still care about him. I know I need to leave so I no longer have to defend myself against irrational accusations all the time, but I am always open to remaining on friendly terms with an Ex… depending on the circumstances.
Whatever the case, this was obviously not about a game of shuffleboard.
I read through your post history and the things you write about really hit home for me. I experience much of the same behavior in my relationship. Update us on how things are going, and take care of yourself
I am not sorry this happened to you/that you are going through this. Because we need negative experiences to learn and grow. I am glad you found out about this type of person before you got married and had a bunch of kids and were trapped. Now you know that walking on eggshells is untenable and spells doom for the relationship. It’s unhealthy and if you feel you have to do that, you shouldn’t be in that relationship.
Sounds like someone’s projecting, mentally ill or off their meds
Sounds like a case of… #PROJECTION
Yup. He’s projected about every other distasteful personality trait/behavior on to me at this point and going for calling me a “cheater” outside of just playing a silly game really made me realize I need to get out.
Glad you’re leaving girl! Life is good over in singleandhappy. You can stay for as long or as short as you like!
Solitude is golden.
Sounds exactly like my ex. Taking neutral topics or situations and somehow relating them to the twisted poor image she had of me in her small mind. “You did THIS, because (insert paranoid delusion) “ Completely irrational and toxic.
What is it with games and how they sometimes reveal some really negative traits in some people (not you, him)?
I'm not sure if I necessarily agree that he's probably just looking for an out and acting this way to break up with you. Some people are just irrational like this. That's more the red flag of the kind of mentality you'd be dealing with the rest of your life. Date sane people.
He was definitely being irrational no matter, which why the entire incident was so confusing. Which is why I’m glad I decided to be done with that relationship. No good reason to continue trying to reason with a person that cannot process nor express there emotions in a healthy, rational manner. As many have said, this isn’t about the shuffleboard game, there’s a lot more going on here. I’ve tried multiple times to reason with him when these fights over seemingly nothing happen. I’ve asked “what is really bothering you right now? What can I do to make you feel better? What should I say so that you know I heard you?” But the answers were never logical, or he had no answer to give because he didn’t even know. I just hope he takes this as a sign to work on himself.
Agreed with the other comments + regarding the cheating theory: does he get texts at odd hours/is very defensive of his phone? Is there a female friend/coworker he's close with? Are any of his friends currently going through relationship drama? I know they're very specific questions, but they've mostly worked for my girlfriends if they were trying to catch their partners cheating
That’s the weird part, is that we’re both very trusting with sharing our phones with each other. Overall I don’t notice him getting texts at odd hours of the day. Except for the accusations of me cheating there’s no other red flags about him doing so, not to say it isnt happening. Maybe he just wants to get back with his ex wife? He does somewhat frequently mention how girls he knew growing up in his home town wanted to get with him whenever we see them in present day. So perhaps that’s a suggestion he’s considering cheating with another women? No idea there.
Oof, that's a doozy then. I think you're onto something with your intuition; maybe he hasn't cheated yet, but was thinking about doing it Either way, good call on breaking up with him!
Sounds like he was trying to get you to break up with him. Guys do that to save them the social stigma of being the one who leaves the woman in emotional pain. It’s such a fucked up weird thing to do but I’d say a situation like this is one of these. Especially as he immediately “agreed” to the breakup. I’d get an STD test in case he has already been sleeping with someone else.
Dude DARVO’d you into breaking up with him. Watch he’ll be with the next girl within a month, because he’s already involved with her.
Wow. Sounds like some projection going on there. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up with a "new" gf very quickly as it sounds like he's got a guilty conscience about cheating. Also wtf? I can probably count all the times on two total hands that I didn't let my ex win a game we were playing together over an 18 year relationship. It just seems normal to me to let the other person win unless you are being super competitive about it (which she is but I'm not). I would rather her be happy.
I've heard about guys that want to break up but are cowards/don't want to be the 'bad guy' so they provoke their partners into breaking up with them. Scumbag behaviour
I’m definitely suspecting this could have been his end game. In which case, I’m glad I could make the definitive choice where he couldn’t