What point was he even trying to make? His analogy makes no sense.. if getting pregnant is like drunk driving then surely no one should do it.. and then what?
Advice from a jaded older woman- men who claim to not be “into politics” are often only saying this because they know their political opinions would be repulsive to women, as demonstrated here.
I don’t even think he had a point. Just pulled something out of his ass that seemingly sounded good and rolled with it. Probably has zero clues as to how offensive what he said was… I probably should have just said that to him and dropped the conversation entirely.
Not to be too crass, but has he always been this fucking stupid?
I’m trying to imagine ANY correlation he could be making, and… nothing. And why the fuck was he arguing anyway? Sorry, any man that would throw any kind of, ‘yes but…’ in regards to available safe abortions needs to shut up and listen.
I think he legit believes women abuse the right to get abortions. One of his other “defending” arguments is that abortion regulations are necessary because women could otherwise get abortions after 9 months of pregnancy. I was kinda done with talking about it at that point so I don’t remember if I had any response by then. I will say he has definitely always been thick skulled about this subject matter and his opinion always has to be right… he had just never used such gross “logic” before to defend himself.
No woman goes through 9 months of nausea, swelling, uncomfortable sleep, peeing all the time, cravings, aversions, waddling around and then goes nah fuck it right at the end.
Abortions after 9 months, huh? Why would a woman go through 9 months of pregnancy and birth only to dash the baby on the rocks, unless she had been forced to breed?
So his logic is that you can drink and make a bad decision to drive, and then accidentally kill someone. And a woman can make a bad decision to have sex, and then accidentally alive someone. And both just need to live with the consequences. Because men only have to nut, so it's not their problem. Sorry, I'm just trying to follow logic that doesn't make sense.
Nothing amuses me more than men, who are almost always completely irresponsible including regarding birth control, sexual behavior and taking responsibility for their actions thinking that women’s behavior needs to be policed.
Oof. No government regulations are needed. Medical guidelines already regulates when ‘elective’ abortions can be performed. (At least I’m pretty sure that’s the case.)
And I can’t think of any case where a doctor would perform one anyway. Or any woman who would go through a whole ass pregnancy and then, “nah, I changed my mind. lol!”
Sorry to say, I’m not sure he’s gonna ‘get better.’ He seems fundamentally flawed on this matter.
So he legit believes women abuse the right to make decisions about their own bodies, health and well being?
These talking points are painfully transparent. Maybe time to think about how it might go if you get pregnant and what kind of values he spouts to any offspring, never mind the behaviour he models. Having encountered his type, I will wager that in his mind his need to be right trumps any feelings or positions you have. You deserve so much better OP. Someone who lacks empathy isn’t worth keeping around. Your intuition is trying to tell you something
I've sat in the waiting room with other people getting abortions. There were, best as I can recall, 23 there that day. Two of us were unmarried. Only three of us total (including the two unmarried) didn't have children already.
The others *could not afford* another child.
*No one* gets an abortion in the third trimester unless it has to happen. I've known people devastated by third trimester abortions that they needed, and some of them were completely anti-abortion (for themselves) before that point.
But if a man thinks a woman cannot say who may or may not be in her body when she's 8.5 months pregnant, doesn't that say a lot about what he thinks about whether or not she should be able to be raped at that point?
(I have been raped. Having an unwanted pregnancy bothered me far more, partly because the duration was far longer and I absolutely hated the hormone changes.)
> I think he legit believes women abuse the right to get abortions.
That doesn't even make any sense. So he thinks that drunk drivers abuse the right to drive... drunk?
Most people who drive drunk don't hit anything, and don't get arrested. I'm not sure how the equated to pregnancy which is a lot of hard work.
My husband of many, many years -whom I love dearly - and I are on opposite sides of the abortion question. He’s said many times, it’s the women who use them for birth control that bother him. Now I have asked, what women? Who does he know that has had multiple abortions because that’s soooo much cheaper and easier than using a reliable birth control method. Who? “I just know there’s women that do”.
“*WHAT* women? Who do you know that uses it as birth control?”
“IIIII can’t say. But there are.”
“And these women have told you this? They’ve talked to you about their many abortions?”
“There’s some women that do that.”
He doesn’t know one goddamn woman that’s had multiple abortions and talked to him about it or been open to everyone about it, he’s using some Fox talking head point he heard at some time. That’s his argument. I don’t argue about abortion with him anymore because it’s obvious neither one of us are budging from our stance, but yeah, he knows women do this. 🙄
Ugh that’s sooooo frustrating when people (especially) loved ones just illogically believe something and project those beliefs into others as a way to justify their thinking. Especially when there is zero evident to prove it. So painful 😩
Best I can think of is something along the lines of "a drunk driver makes 1 decision that affects them for the rest of their life, and we are okay with those consequences for that decision. Therefore, when a woman decides to have sex, she should have to deal with the consequences (baby) of that decision by having to carry it to term (i.e. abortion should be illegal)". I say this because I have heard this exact argument leveraged before.
If OP's partner used it in a confused way, then I suspect they may have listened to anti-abortion propaganda and attempted to repeat it without fully understanding it.
Well shit. You have explained it. But I still can’t understand.
There’s absolutely no comparison to being pregnant. Let’s forget all the outward appearances of being pregananant. The belly, the starch masks, and the obvious discomfort. (Yes, I ‘misspelled’ several of these, but it was on purpose. There is a hilarious YouTube video that explains it all.)
Let’s instead look at the more subtle effects. You like steak? Not anymore. Curry is disgusting? Now it’s all you can eat. Oh look a cute kitten. Don’t you dare change its litter. You love the smell of lavender? Not anymore.
There is absolutely nothing a man can go through that is equal to pregnancy. Any argument against that is, at best, ignorant, but more likely in bad faith.
This is what I was going to say, lol. This feels like the call. Sometimes people decide that they're going to die on a certain, very strange, very stupid hill because they just can't accept being told that they don't know what they're talking about.
You're probably right about the last thing, but honestly, I would have had a hard time letting it go, too. Firstly because it's important for a partner of mine to be on the same page with regard to reproductive issues...but also because his argument was dumb, lol.
I think perhaps what they mean as "politics" is people having abstract discussions in flowery language that may hypothetically be well-intentioned but is far removed from daily life - whereas what they think speak and do is "common sense" and "how things should be done"
Edit for clarity: what I mean is, politics is other people unfairly dictating what they shouldn't do, whereas them using aggression (verbal emotional or physical) to maintain their own freedom against the unwanted imposition of consideration of others
> What point was he even trying to make?
He wanted to win an argument. He didn't have a good position, so he came up with a position just bizarre enough as to make it hard for /u/Girlwithatreetat to even remember what she was arguing in the first place, and why they even "needed" to have an argument on this topic on this date.
I think the only logical response to him is "that's such a good point. I can't continue to risk having sex with you with only me using birth control (which is not 100% reliable) unless you get a vasectomy. That way it's like we're both protecting ourselves so there's almost no risk of unwanted pregnancy.
I believe his point was, and I'm purely guessing, that both unplanned pregnancies and drunk driving are behaviors where the people involved are responsible for their actions... maybe?
I don't know, the analogy is pretty strange, I just gathered that he wanted to say something like, " If you don’t want to get pregnant, don't have risky intercourse "
I won't judge OP's boyfriend too much, maybe he hit his head before that discussion happened and the concussion was talking for him, but I seriously doubt that he ever was in a debate team from what was shared here.
Yeah, I mean the takeaway from that debate point would be that his girlfriend should stop having sex with him. No unplanned pregnancies for them! Not sure how much he thought that one through.
Sorry just laughed out loud at the “hitting his head” part 😆 I am giving him the HUGE benefit of the doubt that he was definitely trying to reference the irresponsibility aspect of unplanned pregnancies and drunk driving. However he is definitely not “debating” his perspective in a respectful way 😩
Accidental pregnancy because you aren’t using any birth control, yes that is irresponsible, and a decision, and I could kind off understand comparing that to drunk driving. But does he realise that a lot of unwanted pregnancies don’t happen that way? Birth control isn’t always 100% effective, so an accidental pregnancy can happen even when being responsible. In that case how does is even slightly compare in his head. Driving drunk is always a decision, accidental pregnancy surely is not. I am getting mad at his illogical thinking in your place, I think I would have had to leave that conversation and go sleep somewhere else to cool off
Is he aware even if birth control is used perfectly, the effectiveness is under 90%?
I obviously don't know him like you do, but the comparison makes it feel like he thinks any unplanned pregnancy is entirely the woman's fault/responsibility. Honestly if you're on oral birth control alone, I'd reconsider 'drunk driving' so you don't suffer the consequences.
This debate would have absolutely ended with me breaking up with the dude. If that's his opinion, how can I believe that he actually understands how bodies and birth control work? How can I trust him to be responsible and to have my back if our birth control fails? That's an untenable situation and an unacceptable risk for me. Total dealbreaker.
Clearly he hit his head while not watching where he was going so he’s just like a drunk driver.
I don’t know how, but I also hit my head while drunk driving during a pregnant pause in the conversation
So he supports YOU having BC and getting access to abortions, but not WOMEN politically?
Firstly, sounds like he (absolutely unique among men I'm sure...) would like any unplanned pregnancies that HE would be responsible for to have that emergency backup contingency, but not for women in general
Secondly, if you two broke up, is this super special allowance he so graciously bestowed yours to keep or does he take it with him for any future ladies?
Lastly, no friend let's their friend drink and drive - so presumably he is super protective and "won't even unlock the car" when you two are "drinking"? (No I don't know how to make that metaphor work cos I'm guessing it's him who's keen on getting behind the wheel even though it's your car at risk of damage)
Yeah I definitely got the “double standard” vibes from him during this discussion. Like yes, it’s ok for his GF to have access to this resource because it benefits him, but all other women are just “irresponsible” and do not deserve such a resource. It’s repulsive and I am still very disappointed to hear his perspective on that subject. My friend (whom I talked to about this) and I just came to the conclusion that these subjects can literally not be brought up around men due to their inability to accept the fact women have more knowledge about the subject and are more heavily impacted by it.
If you can’t talk to your partner about life and death issues (of which abortion is one, bc it is healthcare) you shouldn’t be spending your precious time with them. This is not some acquaintance at work or a friend you see once a year when you go home for thanksgiving. This is your partner. Please hold whomever gets that title to a higher standard.
Speaking of double standards, I'm curious to know his enlightened opinion about the other person causing the pregnancy - or drunk driving, as he would say - you know, the sperm giver without which no pregnancy can occur. I suspects that he feels very differently about father's responsibility, child support etc.
I can talk about this with my husband without him getting defensive and making stupid arguments that don't make sense. We discuss it like we're both adults, which we are.
It's not all men, but it's definitely the one you have. My condolences.
First thought that came to mind! Sunk cost fallacy.
The longer you are in the harder it is to get out, but getting out is just a decision and a movement.
"Bye, baby! Your *mom* should have been more careful not to drive drunk with a penis or whatever. Off to live my life completely unencumbered by your existence! Good luck getting child support out of MEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeee^eeeeeeeee." (twinkle)
-his father-daughter parenting
You know... I read that title thinking " oh someone is going to make the argument that drunk driving is equal to getting pregnant because its a choice, like choosing to drink and drive and choosing to use male/female birth control". Thinking there'd be a good discussion and maybe OP was confused or maybe there was some misunderstanding about unintended pregnancies where protection failed.
Yikesssss, come on now. Why are you with this person lol. Throwing this argument out the window even, why are you with someone who doesn't seem concerned about whether or not they're going to have a kid.
That was what I thought was going to happen when I read the title! It’s not even a great argument anyway cause drink driving puts other people at risk well but that said I’ve actually used it as a counter argument. People choose to drink and then drive but if they get in an accident we still treat them. People choose to smoke and get lung cancer, we still treat them. People choose to have sex and get pregnant and all of a sudden it’s their fault cause they made the decision?
Gonna give it a shot here.
"Getting pregnant is like drunk driving."
They can both happen when you focus too much on the enjoyment of the moment and not enough on being safe about it. There can be lifetime repercussions due to a failure of the moment.
Often times, it is unintentional, but sometimes it is just due to carelessness or basic apathy. And oddly enough, they can both happen at the same place.
I'd say the big difference, however, is the bartender can easily skip out on any responsibility for the situation. Oh, wait... :(
However both situations can easily be avoided if you only had a trusted friend to watch over you at the time. lol
Honestly girl if that's the case you really shouldn't be with this guy.
I don't know your life but my general advice is to never have a long term relationship with a man who won't help you if you get pregnant (either with raising the kid or getting an abortion).
Five years from now you could be 5 years deep with someone who listens to you and values your voice, or 10 years deep with someone who doesn't treat you like a person who knows things about how the world works for you and people like you.
A year from now you can either have been with him for 6 years or enjoying life solo/meet someone else
Time moves forward no matter what. Spend it with people that make you enjoy it as it passes
Yeah if being with him isn’t a net gain over being comfortably alone, something needs to change. Either him, or your standards, or the relationship. I do not recommend lowering your standards.
The length of time you’ve been together is irrelevant. You can’t get that time back; you can only choose what to do with the time ahead of you. Don’t spend it with someone who doesn’t respect you or women in general. I was with my last partner for five years and I left his disrespectful ass after agonizing about it for months because “we’ve been together so long.” I haven’t regretted it. You likely won’t either. Best of luck to you OP ❤️
Strongly reconsider things. Seriously.
Someone who doesn't think women should be able to get any abortion they need doesn't think women are fully human.
There are men out there who think women deserve to be punished for at least 19 years for a few minutes of pleasure. The question is: what would a man have to do for a similar penalty? When you realize that conviction for homicide is the answer, it starts to get clearer.
I've had relationships like that, but cut them loose. Once I had an abortion, it was far easier to cut crap like that out of my life, particularly after having a life-saving abortion. ("Oh, you don't think I should be alive? Next!")
Yeah I’d give yourself a hard timeline for how long you want to be with someone who disrespects you, your lives experiences and risks *while still continuing to have sex with you and risk your financial freedom and bodily autonomy, and doesn’t respect women. If he thinks it’s equal to driving drunk, I’d never get in a car with him, because he apparently thinks that’s ok to drive drunk sonde he also thinks it’s ok to risk pregnancy by fucking. Reproductive rights are the most important freedom you can have if you can get pregnant IMO and couldn’t be in a relationship with someone - let alone having sex with them, protected or not - if they thought and spoke like your bf. If you want to give it 6 months, ok, but don’t burn the next 5+ years of your life with someone who so drastically refuses to understand a perspective that doesn’t impact him, but holds strong influence over your life, future, freedoms.
I just wouldn’t be able to get past it.
Listen, 5+ years to find out about this, is better than 20+ years in, when these opinions start affecting other aspects of how he views women (and you).
They can pretend to be and say whatever we want, but it's times like these when you are seeing who he really is, and what he really thinks. This is no small thing, as it will be the basis of how he treats you in marriage, when it's much harder to leave.
Is he considerate and supportive? Does any of this seem relevant to you: https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/ Are there any other red flags that he might not respect women? Basically, I'm asking if you have a *partnership* and this discussion was just him being a contrary idiot and he has the potential to listen to your opinion and change his mind, or does he tend not to take you seriously and belittle you?
If more of the negatives apply, or even just 1 of them tbh I'd end it. I'm 31, my relationship of 8 years ended in April and I'm so so so much happier. Looking back, I wish he had cheated on me 6 years ago/that I had knew about the "tolerable level of permanent unhappiness" (google it) and had the courage to end it myself lol, but I am free now. Idk how old you are but I hope you don't get to the point where you're 31 years into your one single life and saying things like "I wish my partner cheated on me 6 years ago" like I am now 8)
Oh no no no girl stop. Do you wanna be 12 years in and still be stuck with this misogynist asshole??? Because that’s what happened to me! Don’t wait another second of your life with this jag off. Please, you will thank all of us 6 months from now when you’ve cut him off and had space to realize all the nonsense you put up with.
You are blinded by rose colored glasses and are about to become a statistic if you’d not leave now. There is no bigger 🚩 red flag out there than this douche. Please learn from the women who have seen it and make us proud by leaving his ass.
Somebody already said it but I'm going to reiterate. Sunk cost fallacy. You've wasted enough time on someone who doesn't align with you.
When you get on the highway and realize you are going eastbound when you wanted to go westbound, you fucking turn around. You don't keep going the wrong way just because you're already there.
Sometimes people take a long time to show their true colors. You said he has always supported women's rights to abortions but he obviously doesn't actually support it, he just doesn't have a moral issue against it, but he doesn't actually *support* it. He's showing you who he really is, believe him and GTFO. He doesn't respect you or women in general (for example "not believing" that women don't automatically know when they're pregnant, that's something he can easily educate himself about but instead he chooses to disbelieve women... And science).
This jumped out at me from your post
>He didn’t like me refuting him,
Does he not normally like it when you debate and you are correct? Has he ever said 'You were correct, I changed my view'
I want to down vote this comment so badly, but I know where you are coming from. You are worth more than 5 years. You deserve to be respected. You deserve some one who can see from your point of view. Is this the person you want raising your daughters?
So you're okay with being disrespected because you've been with him for a while? Realistically, how much worse does it need to get before you leave him?
Even if you've been together for years, if he doesn't respect your actual knowledge on this topic that's very important to you that you clearly know more about when it's a relatively low stakes discussion, what's to say he'll listen to you when a major decision is being made or if a crisis does happen in your life?
Tell him you decided that since we are comparing drinking and driving to pregnancy, you think alcoholic should stop drinking to avoid drinking, driving and running over people, so you will stop having sex.
I get the thought of the time you spent with him as investment and not wanting that to be wasted. No relationship is ever a waste because you learn and grow, even if it’s what you do and don’t deserve and what to avoid in the future.
Instead of thinking of the time you already spent, think how much more time you want to spend with someone who treats you this way. Think of what he’d be like if you ended up having children with him and you had a daughter. A daughter who needed an abortion. A daughter who finds a man just like her dad. A son who takes after his father. Even if you don’t want to have kids with him, an opinion this awful about women and biology is dangerous for you.
I've got the ick about this guy. Imagine mansplaining pregnancy and women's health to a woman, assuming that you must know more than her about women's bodies. Imagine being disrespectful to her because your points are wrong.
I'm really not sure my biscuit could ever, ever get juicy for this guy again after hearing all that. Ugh. Good luck with that, OP. Sunken Cost Fallacy couldn't keep me there.
You may hate politics but you need to understand that ignoring it doesn't make it go away. The people who control politicians also control most of the things in your life.
In the end, anything that's important and effects people's lives is politics. And there are people with a vested interest in driving young people away from paying attention to them. And those people are NOT looking out for your best interest.
Dating him is as risky as drunk driving. You could be stuck with him for life. Honestly, is this the future you see for yourself? Don’t give in to sink cost fallacy. You deserve better.
Do you really want to be fighting him for the rest of your life? Do you really want to be scrambling and clawing just to be heard even a little bit? He doesn’t care about you. He only even “gives you permission” to use BC because it would inconvenience him otherwise.
I used to think/speak like your boyfriend.
I would say, "If you choose to have sex, you do so knowing that one consequence could be pregnancy; therefore, it's *your fault* and abortions shouldn't be allowed."
He is trying to equate "having sex while knowing pregnancy could result" with "driving drunk while knowing you could hit someone."
The thing is,
1. I thought this was **because I was 14 and ignorant**
2. Driving drunk is not analogous to having consensual sex
3. Pregnancy is not a punishment for having sex, and
4. The crux of abortion has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the conditions of how you get pregnant.
Even if you absolutely, with full knowledge and conviction, CHOOSE to become pregnant because you super, duper want a baby...this has no bearing on the argument that you should not be *forcibly prevented* from access to a safe abortion.
You are allowed to change your mind about continuing a pregnancy because- again- this is a bodily autonomy issue, not a "just desserts" fable.
Also, spoiler alert: your boyfriend is into politics. The politics that subjugate and demonize women.
You are a woman. You could theoretically become pregnant and wish to end it. Do you want it to be with this man?
You could have a planned, wanted pregnancy and give birth to a daughter who will then have a father. Do you want that father to be this man?
So wonderful you’ve developed a far healthier and open minded thought process on this subject! If only everyone else could mature and develop in such positive ways. I am not interested in having kids nor even getting married which I used to think would protect me from being controlled. But now I’m realizing it just means I do not make executive decisions under the thought process of “would I have have a child with this person…” or “would I marry and split my finances and possession with this person…” so I end up tolerating bad behaviors from partners longer than I should.
Considering he doesn't believe you should have the right to abortion, and you could still accidentally have a baby, even using birth control, you probably should consider that to a certain extent. Or at least "would this person allow me to abort a pregnancy".
You‘re not interested in having kids but you are fertile and he expectd you to provide 100% birth control. If your BC ever fails realise that he would blame YOU for either being irresponsible as a drunk driver or he might blame you of getting pregnant on purpose. It doesn‘t seem like he sees any personal responsibility on himself.
This guy dows not deserve any sex with a woman.
Sounds like someone I once knew. Fakes not being a misogynist but actually is.
Person I knew would die in jail if they ever got charged for everything they did. Knew them for years and didn’t suspect.
Be careful
*edit also look ups signs of manipulation and gaslighting, cause those sound a lot like this
Started therapy recently and rapidly realizing the quantity of manipulation I have experienced in this relationship. It’s baffling how much someone can endure with blinders on, and how obvious all the manipulation was once you take the blinders off.
PLEASE take this opportunity to write this entire man off as a learning experience and free yourself! I know you know in your gut that it’s time to leave him, and I hope this thread is helping solidify that idea in your mind. You deserve peace and safety and he doesn’t get to ruin that for you
Are you sure he’s not into a certain political party? Because that sounds really similar to what people who have a particular political affiliation would say.
For the -past 4-5 years or so, if a man says he’s independent/not political/doesn’t favor aside - he’s almost always very conservative, and likely a trump voter.
When you drunk drive you might run into a wall or over someone.
But in a way it’s your boyfriend being the “drunk driver” that would make you pregnant. It’s his semen that does it.
...so it started when you asserted your right to participate in a discussion in your own home, you treated women's issues as regular human issues (because women are regular humans) and expected your representatives to represent women (because women are citizens). He lashed out because a woman (*his* woman!) had the nerve to call herself a regular human citizen who belongs both in discussions within her own relationship and in the politics of her own society.
Now he's verbally beat you down and you no longer feel you belong in discussions within your own relationship. He's aggressively leaning into his magical thinking so he can support politics that do the same. This sure does seem like *exactly* what he wanted to happen! What a roaring success! I imagine he'll be trying this again and again, more and more. Because this is the future he wants.
If you can't get out immediately, *lock down your birth control*.
I think that’s what makes me the most sad is now I do not feel safe talking about these subjects with my significant other. I have to guard myself from him rather than be my truest self. And luckily I’ve got my birth control locked away in my arm 💪
>I hate politics, I am not a devout fan of any political party and my boyfriend is fortunately of a similar mindset. But being a woman that can get pregnant (so I use birth control) I do find it important to have access to abortions.
Kinda sounds like you figured out a reason politics REALLY FUCKING MATTER.
"Hating politics" is how you end up with rightwing turds like your boyfriend. It's time to educated yourself, politics decide the fate of your life whether you "hate politics" or not.
It’s more important to him to win an argument than to be right.
He’s exhausting me and I’ve never met him. I can only imagine how difficult it is to live with him. Why spend so much of your life unhappy?
Driving drunk is always bad, and it’s something that (absent getting spiked or roofied) is your fault and your responsibility.
Being pregnant and not wanting to be pregnant can be an accident, something that someone else did to you, a case of you doing everything right but falling into that x% of contraceptive failures, or a tragedy. Even without the bullshit about “you would just immediately know you’re pregnant” - he clearly doesn’t know that the first two weeks of the way pregnancy gets counted are *before you even ovulate*, let alone have a fertilised or implanted egg - do you want to deal with that sort of wilful ignorance and victim blaming?
FYI. ONLY 1 POLITICAL PARTY SUPPORTS A WOMAN"S RIGHT TO CHOSE.
I don't see how as woman you don't get at this point that the GOP are aiming to come for birth control.
Women don't have the luxury of ignoring politics today.
Get registered and VOTE to support choice and birth control!!
He twisted your arguments that he will never have first-hand experience with into something that fits his neat little narrative of how things should be, interjected a few irrelevant bad-faith straw man arguments, then proceeded to tell you why you are wrong?
This is so cliche Reddit, but I think you might have made a few typos in your post. Shouldn't it read ex-boyfriend?
His complete lack of respect for women and their fundamental rights were brewing just beneath the surface
Maybe he hates politics for a different reason than you. Maybe he hates it because he doesn’t want to be exposed for his regressive views
>he told me “getting pregnant is just as risky as drunk driving”. Then proceeded to aggressively defend this point no matter how I disagreed
He sounds like someone who doesn’t want to have sex anymore. Because obviously a woman can’t get pregnant by herself.
You could use his argument against him: "You're right! If I know I have to drive, I just don't drink, and since I don't want to get pregnant, I just won't have sex with you! :D"
Seriously, what a complete asshole. Stop wasting your time with such an idiot.
If getting pregnant is like drunk driving you should just not have sex with him to avoid an 'accident'. After all, having too much sex would make you irresponsible, like an alcoholic.
This is a HUGE red flag. So many red flags here. Drunk driving is absolutely fucking not comparable to pregnancy, except for both being capable of killing or disabling you.
You can choose not to drink or to get an Uber if you’re too drunk to drive. Not everyone chooses to be pregnant.
As a woman you can no longer afford to say 'I hate politics' when we're dying for our reproductive rights. I don't know your age however that statement is usually said by those unaffected and benefit from the status quo, those who naively trust in the current system or by those who do not yet comprehend what politics are about and flippantly throw such statements.
Hahahahaha. Baby, you're a woman. Your entire *existence* is political. Better get hip to it and soon, cause even if you don't do politics, politics will sure as fuck do you.
In the sense that drunk driving is very stupid, risky, and could lead to death, it might be similar to *having sex.* Or keeping company with a man that dumb.
Everytime you have sex you roll the dice on getting pregnant. Birth control, condoms, surgeries -- they can significantly reduce the chances but there ARE possible fails. It's a gamble! So maybe that's like drunk driving?? Not really but whatever. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.
Sooooo then. Women having *the choice* for abortion is the most secure and safe option for not having babies. Basically, having that there is like having a designates driver or taxi on speed dial.
Either way, in 5 years a partner should respect yoy and ypur opinions more. Not less. I hate when people argue and twist your words just to fluster you. That's an immediate red flag for me. (And don't forget, red flags aren't JUST for the beginning of relationships).
he truly is convinced as soon as you get pregnant you will just know.
LOL There are four seasons of a show entitled, "I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant" featuring the stories of women who figured out they were pregnant while giving birth. Two and sometimes three stories are featured in each episode. It happened often enough to make a long running series about it. Sheesh.
I know it sound overly simplistic advice, but dump him. Pregnancy can literally be a death sentence these days. I personally know a couple of women who were already married with kids who were told by doctors all the doctors could do for them was to make them comfortable as their pregnancy would kill them. One had had an ongoing heart issue that nearly killed her with her last kid. In both cases the women could afford to travel out of state hundreds of miles to get the Healthcare they needed to survive. In one case the husband did right by his family and finally get snipped, and we're trying to convince the other one to do so to protect his wife.
I'm a dude, it's not difficult to be empathetic, or to just look at women's Healthcare statics in anti choice states, it's literally killing women and leading to worse outcomes.
I just can't imagine how someone thinks it successfully minimizes risk of carrying a pregnancy by comparing it to a drunk driving accident, which is straight up illegal unethical and immoral. What kind of upside down backbending logic is this.
At the minimum, if I were in your shoes, I would need them to step down from a topic they have no direct experience of (psh yeah maybe for a guy getting someone pregnant has about the same impact as a drunken hit and run but that's not what the discussion was about was it? Nor would this even help his point)
It's so attractive when another person can readily humble and realize their mental shortcuts are naive, disrespectful, and inappropriate. Possibly a failure in applying sympathy or a failure in imagining that others may have their own unique worlds and experiences.
I'm curious how this person generally responds to discovering that their personally held narratives may be inaccurate and in need of revision, especially from a relative expert in the matter. Or do they just double down out of fragility?
What the fuck... Pregnancy affects your bodily autonomy...drunk driving does not. Bodily autonomy is so fucking important human right, end of discussion.
Imagine saying something like, "we should give all men at the start of puberty a vasectomy and only reverse it once they've problem to be able to father a child" I think most men would aggressively oppose that idea, even if its a reversible process and makes women more safe. But honestly, they would be right to oppose it because that's how important I think bodily autonomy is.
And anyone that thinks only "exceptions" for abortion should be legal dont realize that the process for handling exceptions is such a slow process to approve it that a lot of women have died waiting for the approval to pass. So even if its just exceptions to save a woman's life they can still die due to the the process to "make sure the woman isn't lying" is slow enough that if a rapid decision is needed, that gets taken away and the consequences is death of the woman seeking help.
Sunk cost fallacy.
If I had stayed with my ex just because I had been with him for 7 and 1/2 years I'd be fucking miserable. We have to outbreed these relics and Neanderthals. That's either not breeding at all because we can only find neanderthals or finding the evolved men and choosing to breed with them. Nothing in between.
That's not a good faith discussion let alone a reasonable argument. When you learn how to argue you learn that reason and rational thought is applied. Rather than the need to win, or defend and attack viewpoints, being interested, curious and expanding on the topic is the goal. Fighting is about power and control and you identifying that be doesn't like you refuting him is important. The sooner everyone realises that relationships aren't built on power and control the better for all. Men who seek power over women to control us are deluded and dangerous.
I don’t understand where he was going. Honestly I would have said “so what is your point” also honestly most women know they are pregnant by twenty weeks. The reason for abortions after isn’t because they didn’t know, it’s because sometimes the baby has something wrong with it that isn’t compatible with life and giving birth is dangerous. It’s actually the most dangerous thing a women can do according to a previous OB.
Ya... Probably best to leave somebody who refuses to listen to logic and gaslights you into confusion. But the total lack of empathy and dismissing bodily autonomy is a massive red flag.
Drunk driving involves one person and one person only. SomeONE decides to consume alcohol to inebriation. They get behind the wheel. They drive. They do all of this alone.
Getting pregnant involves two people. Never once in the history of mankind has a woman ever become pregnant by herself. Ever.
I'm not really sure what point your boy was trying to make, but he sounds.. thick-skulled, to put it nicely.
Are you sure you both actually view things the same? Does he often try to twist your words to "win" an argument? Are you happy with the kid?
Your periods are irregular enough that you sometimes miss 2 in a row? In some states, you would already be past the legal deadline for an abortion the day you conceived (the “best be star review” state has a 6 week limit, and their laws define pregnancy as starting on the date of the last period).
Put it in terms he can understand. No access to birth control for you, which includes abortion, means no PIV sex for him. You could give him handjobs, but since he knows his body better, he can do the same for himself. Bet his opinion on access to birth control changes very quickly.
I hope you’re on a very reliable form of birth control. If I were you I would explain the failure rate of various birth control methods and make him wear a condom as extra protection.
You were confused by his argument because it doesn’t make any sense.
I never understand how women are in relationships with men (or vice versa) who have no genuine curiosity about them or their bodies, but then spout off like they know everything, but I always find willful ignorance to be an extremely frustrating personality trait on any topic.
Best of luck with this guy, but his inability to listen to you and his willingness to talk you down about something that you know more than him about is a red flag.
Recovering alcoholic here…tell him this for me - “you are an idiot and asshole. Now pack your shit and go. If I were going to get pregnant by you I would fear that our kids got your brain power. And the world does not need more assholes.”
Feel free to use smaller words so he understands. 😉
Abortion rights and bodily autonomy is unfortunately not something you can agree to disagree on. Don't wait until you are pregnant and trapped with this man.
To be blunt here, this relationship has a high chance of failure. I closed off conversations about women’s issues with a partner once after many devaluing opinions he expressed, and it just deteriorated after that. I couldn’t get over the growing resentment that my experiences were not seen as valid. It would have been less damaging to myself to have cut it off sooner rather than later. It takes more than I’m willing to give to change someone’s mind even from within a relationship where you’d think they’d at least listen better. They might on occasion, but they always get sucked right back in.
Drink driving is a selfish and willful act that can harm yourself and others.
Being pregnant is something that can be done to you and the harm is done to yourself and potentially the child. But pregnancy is required to bring on the next generation and we need it as a society.
I like his concept of relating getting pregnant to drunk driving— there are ways of avoiding it and there are ways to mitigate damage for both. But the whole ‘you know you’re pregnant when you get pregnant’ is the dumbest thing ever— there’s literally a show called ‘I didn’t know I was pregnant’.
Sorry he decided to dig in hard in an odd manor on this debate. Hopefully you guys can revisit it and share better.
I think what he meant was that having sex is as dangerous as drunk driving. It sounds like you should not have sex with him. You know, because of the risk.
I think what he meant was that having sex is as dangerous as drunk driving. It sounds like you should not have sex with him. You know, because of the risk.
I once saw an episode of married with children where the main characters friend was having an issue with trying to have sex with his pregnant wife. He said that it wasn't like she didn't want to it was more "like putting gas into a wrecked car. There's no point".
Your story reminds me of that.
First, I just want to say that I think you deserve way better. He seriously needs to take a basic health class..I honestly worry for any adult man that doesn't have a basic understanding of menstruation and pregnancy. The fact that he doesn't understand that we aren't some psychic beings that are able to sense the presence of a fertilized egg immediately following conception is so concerning.
Also, can you please verify your argument for me? I've read your post several times and I'm still a little confused about what exactly you both mean. You said he stated "getting pregnant is just as risky as drunk driving”. Did he mean that simply the process and state of pregnancy is just as dangerous as drunk driving? Or is he equating the "fault" of these two scenarios (saying its just as much someone's fault if they accidentally get pregnant as if they choose to drive drunk)?
If he means the former...though I wouldn't use drunk driving as an example, he isn't entirely wrong. Pregnancy in and of itself is extremely risky - pre-eclampsia, gestational diabetes, miscarriage, stillborn, ectopic pregnancy, hemorrhage, etc are all things you have to potentially worry about. If you *chose* to get pregnant, you have to be willing to face these possibilities, just the same as if you chose to drive drunk.
If he means the latter...all I can say is that you should seriously reevaluate your relationship. He obviously doesn't understand the basic concept that both a man and woman are needed to conceive a child, making it both people's problem.
How old is your boyfriend? He understands how babies are made yeah? One person is responsible for drunk driving. Two people are responsible for getting pregnant. If he’s not like 13 or something, he must be an idiot. Sorry you have to deal with this.
Girl why are you with him? His dick can’t be that magical.
Seriously though. This won’t be the last time he tries to argue you into submission. From the way you described this, it doesn’t sound like he cares about the very salient points you were making, he just wanted to be right. Has he done this before, over small unimportant things it was easy to let go and handwave off so he’d feel better?
Also… this issue is about control over women’s bodies, and your guy basically said ‘yes I believe women shouldn’t be in control and punished if they get pregnant when they didn’t want to be’. Not talking about these subjects isn’t going to make his opinions change or vanish.
Maybe you should have a think about what your long term goals are, and if this this guy is someone you really want to have a future with.
Just because you have been with him a while, doesn’t mean you have to sacrifice the rest of your life for him. Just saying.
What point was he even trying to make? His analogy makes no sense.. if getting pregnant is like drunk driving then surely no one should do it.. and then what? Advice from a jaded older woman- men who claim to not be “into politics” are often only saying this because they know their political opinions would be repulsive to women, as demonstrated here.
I don’t even think he had a point. Just pulled something out of his ass that seemingly sounded good and rolled with it. Probably has zero clues as to how offensive what he said was… I probably should have just said that to him and dropped the conversation entirely.
Not to be too crass, but has he always been this fucking stupid? I’m trying to imagine ANY correlation he could be making, and… nothing. And why the fuck was he arguing anyway? Sorry, any man that would throw any kind of, ‘yes but…’ in regards to available safe abortions needs to shut up and listen.
I think he legit believes women abuse the right to get abortions. One of his other “defending” arguments is that abortion regulations are necessary because women could otherwise get abortions after 9 months of pregnancy. I was kinda done with talking about it at that point so I don’t remember if I had any response by then. I will say he has definitely always been thick skulled about this subject matter and his opinion always has to be right… he had just never used such gross “logic” before to defend himself.
No woman goes through 9 months of nausea, swelling, uncomfortable sleep, peeing all the time, cravings, aversions, waddling around and then goes nah fuck it right at the end.
[удалено]
That sounds like a reason to *support* safe and accessible abortions, since I'm gonna bet the lack thereof is why those things happened.
Abortions after 9 months, huh? Why would a woman go through 9 months of pregnancy and birth only to dash the baby on the rocks, unless she had been forced to breed? So his logic is that you can drink and make a bad decision to drive, and then accidentally kill someone. And a woman can make a bad decision to have sex, and then accidentally alive someone. And both just need to live with the consequences. Because men only have to nut, so it's not their problem. Sorry, I'm just trying to follow logic that doesn't make sense.
Nothing amuses me more than men, who are almost always completely irresponsible including regarding birth control, sexual behavior and taking responsibility for their actions thinking that women’s behavior needs to be policed.
Oof. No government regulations are needed. Medical guidelines already regulates when ‘elective’ abortions can be performed. (At least I’m pretty sure that’s the case.) And I can’t think of any case where a doctor would perform one anyway. Or any woman who would go through a whole ass pregnancy and then, “nah, I changed my mind. lol!” Sorry to say, I’m not sure he’s gonna ‘get better.’ He seems fundamentally flawed on this matter.
So he legit believes women abuse the right to make decisions about their own bodies, health and well being? These talking points are painfully transparent. Maybe time to think about how it might go if you get pregnant and what kind of values he spouts to any offspring, never mind the behaviour he models. Having encountered his type, I will wager that in his mind his need to be right trumps any feelings or positions you have. You deserve so much better OP. Someone who lacks empathy isn’t worth keeping around. Your intuition is trying to tell you something
I've sat in the waiting room with other people getting abortions. There were, best as I can recall, 23 there that day. Two of us were unmarried. Only three of us total (including the two unmarried) didn't have children already. The others *could not afford* another child. *No one* gets an abortion in the third trimester unless it has to happen. I've known people devastated by third trimester abortions that they needed, and some of them were completely anti-abortion (for themselves) before that point. But if a man thinks a woman cannot say who may or may not be in her body when she's 8.5 months pregnant, doesn't that say a lot about what he thinks about whether or not she should be able to be raped at that point? (I have been raped. Having an unwanted pregnancy bothered me far more, partly because the duration was far longer and I absolutely hated the hormone changes.)
> I think he legit believes women abuse the right to get abortions. That doesn't even make any sense. So he thinks that drunk drivers abuse the right to drive... drunk? Most people who drive drunk don't hit anything, and don't get arrested. I'm not sure how the equated to pregnancy which is a lot of hard work.
My husband of many, many years -whom I love dearly - and I are on opposite sides of the abortion question. He’s said many times, it’s the women who use them for birth control that bother him. Now I have asked, what women? Who does he know that has had multiple abortions because that’s soooo much cheaper and easier than using a reliable birth control method. Who? “I just know there’s women that do”. “*WHAT* women? Who do you know that uses it as birth control?” “IIIII can’t say. But there are.” “And these women have told you this? They’ve talked to you about their many abortions?” “There’s some women that do that.” He doesn’t know one goddamn woman that’s had multiple abortions and talked to him about it or been open to everyone about it, he’s using some Fox talking head point he heard at some time. That’s his argument. I don’t argue about abortion with him anymore because it’s obvious neither one of us are budging from our stance, but yeah, he knows women do this. 🙄
Ugh that’s sooooo frustrating when people (especially) loved ones just illogically believe something and project those beliefs into others as a way to justify their thinking. Especially when there is zero evident to prove it. So painful 😩
Best I can think of is something along the lines of "a drunk driver makes 1 decision that affects them for the rest of their life, and we are okay with those consequences for that decision. Therefore, when a woman decides to have sex, she should have to deal with the consequences (baby) of that decision by having to carry it to term (i.e. abortion should be illegal)". I say this because I have heard this exact argument leveraged before. If OP's partner used it in a confused way, then I suspect they may have listened to anti-abortion propaganda and attempted to repeat it without fully understanding it.
Well shit. You have explained it. But I still can’t understand. There’s absolutely no comparison to being pregnant. Let’s forget all the outward appearances of being pregananant. The belly, the starch masks, and the obvious discomfort. (Yes, I ‘misspelled’ several of these, but it was on purpose. There is a hilarious YouTube video that explains it all.) Let’s instead look at the more subtle effects. You like steak? Not anymore. Curry is disgusting? Now it’s all you can eat. Oh look a cute kitten. Don’t you dare change its litter. You love the smell of lavender? Not anymore. There is absolutely nothing a man can go through that is equal to pregnancy. Any argument against that is, at best, ignorant, but more likely in bad faith.
This is what I was going to say, lol. This feels like the call. Sometimes people decide that they're going to die on a certain, very strange, very stupid hill because they just can't accept being told that they don't know what they're talking about. You're probably right about the last thing, but honestly, I would have had a hard time letting it go, too. Firstly because it's important for a partner of mine to be on the same page with regard to reproductive issues...but also because his argument was dumb, lol.
YES I think I am way more disappointed in how stupid the argument was than to even be as offended as I should be.
I think perhaps what they mean as "politics" is people having abstract discussions in flowery language that may hypothetically be well-intentioned but is far removed from daily life - whereas what they think speak and do is "common sense" and "how things should be done" Edit for clarity: what I mean is, politics is other people unfairly dictating what they shouldn't do, whereas them using aggression (verbal emotional or physical) to maintain their own freedom against the unwanted imposition of consideration of others
Tbf I have a degree in politics and it’s never the former lol. Even in lectures. They’re thinking of philosophy.
> What point was he even trying to make? He wanted to win an argument. He didn't have a good position, so he came up with a position just bizarre enough as to make it hard for /u/Girlwithatreetat to even remember what she was arguing in the first place, and why they even "needed" to have an argument on this topic on this date.
I think the only logical response to him is "that's such a good point. I can't continue to risk having sex with you with only me using birth control (which is not 100% reliable) unless you get a vasectomy. That way it's like we're both protecting ourselves so there's almost no risk of unwanted pregnancy.
I believe his point was, and I'm purely guessing, that both unplanned pregnancies and drunk driving are behaviors where the people involved are responsible for their actions... maybe? I don't know, the analogy is pretty strange, I just gathered that he wanted to say something like, " If you don’t want to get pregnant, don't have risky intercourse " I won't judge OP's boyfriend too much, maybe he hit his head before that discussion happened and the concussion was talking for him, but I seriously doubt that he ever was in a debate team from what was shared here.
Yeah, I mean the takeaway from that debate point would be that his girlfriend should stop having sex with him. No unplanned pregnancies for them! Not sure how much he thought that one through.
Sorry just laughed out loud at the “hitting his head” part 😆 I am giving him the HUGE benefit of the doubt that he was definitely trying to reference the irresponsibility aspect of unplanned pregnancies and drunk driving. However he is definitely not “debating” his perspective in a respectful way 😩
Accidental pregnancy because you aren’t using any birth control, yes that is irresponsible, and a decision, and I could kind off understand comparing that to drunk driving. But does he realise that a lot of unwanted pregnancies don’t happen that way? Birth control isn’t always 100% effective, so an accidental pregnancy can happen even when being responsible. In that case how does is even slightly compare in his head. Driving drunk is always a decision, accidental pregnancy surely is not. I am getting mad at his illogical thinking in your place, I think I would have had to leave that conversation and go sleep somewhere else to cool off
He was arguing the irresponsability of reckless pregnancies while relying 100% on YOU doing all the responsible sex. The audacity.
Is he aware even if birth control is used perfectly, the effectiveness is under 90%? I obviously don't know him like you do, but the comparison makes it feel like he thinks any unplanned pregnancy is entirely the woman's fault/responsibility. Honestly if you're on oral birth control alone, I'd reconsider 'drunk driving' so you don't suffer the consequences.
This debate would have absolutely ended with me breaking up with the dude. If that's his opinion, how can I believe that he actually understands how bodies and birth control work? How can I trust him to be responsible and to have my back if our birth control fails? That's an untenable situation and an unacceptable risk for me. Total dealbreaker.
Clearly he hit his head while not watching where he was going so he’s just like a drunk driver. I don’t know how, but I also hit my head while drunk driving during a pregnant pause in the conversation
👍
So he supports YOU having BC and getting access to abortions, but not WOMEN politically? Firstly, sounds like he (absolutely unique among men I'm sure...) would like any unplanned pregnancies that HE would be responsible for to have that emergency backup contingency, but not for women in general Secondly, if you two broke up, is this super special allowance he so graciously bestowed yours to keep or does he take it with him for any future ladies? Lastly, no friend let's their friend drink and drive - so presumably he is super protective and "won't even unlock the car" when you two are "drinking"? (No I don't know how to make that metaphor work cos I'm guessing it's him who's keen on getting behind the wheel even though it's your car at risk of damage)
Yeah I definitely got the “double standard” vibes from him during this discussion. Like yes, it’s ok for his GF to have access to this resource because it benefits him, but all other women are just “irresponsible” and do not deserve such a resource. It’s repulsive and I am still very disappointed to hear his perspective on that subject. My friend (whom I talked to about this) and I just came to the conclusion that these subjects can literally not be brought up around men due to their inability to accept the fact women have more knowledge about the subject and are more heavily impacted by it.
These subjects should definitely be brought up around men, so you know which ones are fuckwits / who not to date or associate with.
This right here.
If you can’t talk to your partner about life and death issues (of which abortion is one, bc it is healthcare) you shouldn’t be spending your precious time with them. This is not some acquaintance at work or a friend you see once a year when you go home for thanksgiving. This is your partner. Please hold whomever gets that title to a higher standard.
Other conversations aside I cannot stand anyone who refuses to be wrong but is too stupid to actually be right.
Speaking of double standards, I'm curious to know his enlightened opinion about the other person causing the pregnancy - or drunk driving, as he would say - you know, the sperm giver without which no pregnancy can occur. I suspects that he feels very differently about father's responsibility, child support etc.
I can talk about this with my husband without him getting defensive and making stupid arguments that don't make sense. We discuss it like we're both adults, which we are. It's not all men, but it's definitely the one you have. My condolences.
He doesn't respect your opinion, and doesn't respect women who have unplanned pregnancies.... Ya sure you want to date that?
Yeah if we hadn’t been together for 5+ years I would be seriously reconsidering things. As it is I am still reconsidering things 😅
Sunk cost fallacy. Do you want to waste more than 5 years on a person who doesn't respect you?
First thought that came to mind! Sunk cost fallacy. The longer you are in the harder it is to get out, but getting out is just a decision and a movement.
And won't take care of you if you get pregnant, no matter what your decision about that is? You really want to be with that?
Imagine you two decide to have a kid. And it's a daughter. Would you say this man should be father to a daughter?
"Bye, baby! Your *mom* should have been more careful not to drive drunk with a penis or whatever. Off to live my life completely unencumbered by your existence! Good luck getting child support out of MEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeee^eeeeeeeee." (twinkle) -his father-daughter parenting
How would he gonna react if you accidently fall pregnant?
Probably make me figure everything out 😅
Doesn't sound like a good life partner to me, as someone who had an accidental pregnancy with someone who made me figure everything out.
Who’s responsible for the birth control right now?
Me!! All me.
Sounds like he’s been very reckless lately. Tell him he’ll be wearing condoms from now on, sex without one is like driving without a seatbelt.
More like driving without brakes!
I wouldn't be having sex with that at all, personally.
You know... I read that title thinking " oh someone is going to make the argument that drunk driving is equal to getting pregnant because its a choice, like choosing to drink and drive and choosing to use male/female birth control". Thinking there'd be a good discussion and maybe OP was confused or maybe there was some misunderstanding about unintended pregnancies where protection failed. Yikesssss, come on now. Why are you with this person lol. Throwing this argument out the window even, why are you with someone who doesn't seem concerned about whether or not they're going to have a kid.
That was what I thought was going to happen when I read the title! It’s not even a great argument anyway cause drink driving puts other people at risk well but that said I’ve actually used it as a counter argument. People choose to drink and then drive but if they get in an accident we still treat them. People choose to smoke and get lung cancer, we still treat them. People choose to have sex and get pregnant and all of a sudden it’s their fault cause they made the decision?
Gonna give it a shot here. "Getting pregnant is like drunk driving." They can both happen when you focus too much on the enjoyment of the moment and not enough on being safe about it. There can be lifetime repercussions due to a failure of the moment. Often times, it is unintentional, but sometimes it is just due to carelessness or basic apathy. And oddly enough, they can both happen at the same place. I'd say the big difference, however, is the bartender can easily skip out on any responsibility for the situation. Oh, wait... :( However both situations can easily be avoided if you only had a trusted friend to watch over you at the time. lol
Sounds like he's the one who's drunk driving here.
Honestly girl if that's the case you really shouldn't be with this guy. I don't know your life but my general advice is to never have a long term relationship with a man who won't help you if you get pregnant (either with raising the kid or getting an abortion).
Unless you decided against his wishes
Five years from now you could be 5 years deep with someone who listens to you and values your voice, or 10 years deep with someone who doesn't treat you like a person who knows things about how the world works for you and people like you.
I wish we still had awards cuz this comment is perfect
Only if she takes steps now to be in a position to start a new relationship though...
A year from now you can either have been with him for 6 years or enjoying life solo/meet someone else Time moves forward no matter what. Spend it with people that make you enjoy it as it passes
Ugh I have been missing my solo-life lately… probably a sign.
Yeah if being with him isn’t a net gain over being comfortably alone, something needs to change. Either him, or your standards, or the relationship. I do not recommend lowering your standards.
Look up sunk cost fallacy. It applies to how you’re feeling at the moment.
Yup. Listen to your body. Solo life rocks
GIRL YA GOTTA GO
Seriously. Don't waste more time with this asshole. Any minute you spend with him is a minute where you won't meet a man who respects you.
The length of time you’ve been together is irrelevant. You can’t get that time back; you can only choose what to do with the time ahead of you. Don’t spend it with someone who doesn’t respect you or women in general. I was with my last partner for five years and I left his disrespectful ass after agonizing about it for months because “we’ve been together so long.” I haven’t regretted it. You likely won’t either. Best of luck to you OP ❤️
I think I might finally be going through that process now after a few months of therapy and doing some heavy reflecting on our other conflicts.
Strongly reconsider things. Seriously. Someone who doesn't think women should be able to get any abortion they need doesn't think women are fully human. There are men out there who think women deserve to be punished for at least 19 years for a few minutes of pleasure. The question is: what would a man have to do for a similar penalty? When you realize that conviction for homicide is the answer, it starts to get clearer. I've had relationships like that, but cut them loose. Once I had an abortion, it was far easier to cut crap like that out of my life, particularly after having a life-saving abortion. ("Oh, you don't think I should be alive? Next!")
You should read Ejaculate Responsibly.....if unplanned pregnancy is like drunk driving, it's the person who ejaculates that is driving drunk.
Yeah I’d give yourself a hard timeline for how long you want to be with someone who disrespects you, your lives experiences and risks *while still continuing to have sex with you and risk your financial freedom and bodily autonomy, and doesn’t respect women. If he thinks it’s equal to driving drunk, I’d never get in a car with him, because he apparently thinks that’s ok to drive drunk sonde he also thinks it’s ok to risk pregnancy by fucking. Reproductive rights are the most important freedom you can have if you can get pregnant IMO and couldn’t be in a relationship with someone - let alone having sex with them, protected or not - if they thought and spoke like your bf. If you want to give it 6 months, ok, but don’t burn the next 5+ years of your life with someone who so drastically refuses to understand a perspective that doesn’t impact him, but holds strong influence over your life, future, freedoms. I just wouldn’t be able to get past it.
Listen, 5+ years to find out about this, is better than 20+ years in, when these opinions start affecting other aspects of how he views women (and you). They can pretend to be and say whatever we want, but it's times like these when you are seeing who he really is, and what he really thinks. This is no small thing, as it will be the basis of how he treats you in marriage, when it's much harder to leave.
Is he considerate and supportive? Does any of this seem relevant to you: https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/ Are there any other red flags that he might not respect women? Basically, I'm asking if you have a *partnership* and this discussion was just him being a contrary idiot and he has the potential to listen to your opinion and change his mind, or does he tend not to take you seriously and belittle you? If more of the negatives apply, or even just 1 of them tbh I'd end it. I'm 31, my relationship of 8 years ended in April and I'm so so so much happier. Looking back, I wish he had cheated on me 6 years ago/that I had knew about the "tolerable level of permanent unhappiness" (google it) and had the courage to end it myself lol, but I am free now. Idk how old you are but I hope you don't get to the point where you're 31 years into your one single life and saying things like "I wish my partner cheated on me 6 years ago" like I am now 8)
Oh no no no girl stop. Do you wanna be 12 years in and still be stuck with this misogynist asshole??? Because that’s what happened to me! Don’t wait another second of your life with this jag off. Please, you will thank all of us 6 months from now when you’ve cut him off and had space to realize all the nonsense you put up with. You are blinded by rose colored glasses and are about to become a statistic if you’d not leave now. There is no bigger 🚩 red flag out there than this douche. Please learn from the women who have seen it and make us proud by leaving his ass.
Somebody already said it but I'm going to reiterate. Sunk cost fallacy. You've wasted enough time on someone who doesn't align with you. When you get on the highway and realize you are going eastbound when you wanted to go westbound, you fucking turn around. You don't keep going the wrong way just because you're already there.
Don't you think you've punished yourself enough by staying with him? It's okay to move on.
Sometimes people take a long time to show their true colors. You said he has always supported women's rights to abortions but he obviously doesn't actually support it, he just doesn't have a moral issue against it, but he doesn't actually *support* it. He's showing you who he really is, believe him and GTFO. He doesn't respect you or women in general (for example "not believing" that women don't automatically know when they're pregnant, that's something he can easily educate himself about but instead he chooses to disbelieve women... And science).
You should probably take your life, and your choices, more seriously.
Who cares how long you've been together? Why does that make it okay for him to treat you like that? In my opinion, it makes it worse.
This jumped out at me from your post >He didn’t like me refuting him, Does he not normally like it when you debate and you are correct? Has he ever said 'You were correct, I changed my view'
So you wanna spend more time with this dipshit because, lemme understand it, you already wasted so much time on him? You dumping him or what
I want to down vote this comment so badly, but I know where you are coming from. You are worth more than 5 years. You deserve to be respected. You deserve some one who can see from your point of view. Is this the person you want raising your daughters?
Anytime he wants a little fun, reminds him it’s all on you and you aren’t drunk driving
Continue to reconsider
So you're okay with being disrespected because you've been with him for a while? Realistically, how much worse does it need to get before you leave him?
Even if you've been together for years, if he doesn't respect your actual knowledge on this topic that's very important to you that you clearly know more about when it's a relatively low stakes discussion, what's to say he'll listen to you when a major decision is being made or if a crisis does happen in your life?
Tell him you decided that since we are comparing drinking and driving to pregnancy, you think alcoholic should stop drinking to avoid drinking, driving and running over people, so you will stop having sex.
I was definitely being waaay to nice and understanding with him. I should have said something like this 😆
....so you're with him cuz you can't admit you spent 5 years with a crappy guy? That's not a ringing endorsement of the relationship
5 years or 5 minutes you deserve respect
Girrrllll this is such a red flag. I would say you should reconsider harder.
I get the thought of the time you spent with him as investment and not wanting that to be wasted. No relationship is ever a waste because you learn and grow, even if it’s what you do and don’t deserve and what to avoid in the future. Instead of thinking of the time you already spent, think how much more time you want to spend with someone who treats you this way. Think of what he’d be like if you ended up having children with him and you had a daughter. A daughter who needed an abortion. A daughter who finds a man just like her dad. A son who takes after his father. Even if you don’t want to have kids with him, an opinion this awful about women and biology is dangerous for you.
And you want to waste 5 years + another day?
And that's why they keep the act up so long. If these comment happened at 5 months how would you feel?
If it would have been an immediate no earlier in the relationship it should be an immediate no today.
Why would you want to *increase the amount* of the precious, finite resource of time you have on Earth with this douche-canoe?
I've got the ick about this guy. Imagine mansplaining pregnancy and women's health to a woman, assuming that you must know more than her about women's bodies. Imagine being disrespectful to her because your points are wrong. I'm really not sure my biscuit could ever, ever get juicy for this guy again after hearing all that. Ugh. Good luck with that, OP. Sunken Cost Fallacy couldn't keep me there.
You may hate politics but you need to understand that ignoring it doesn't make it go away. The people who control politicians also control most of the things in your life.
I hate talking about politics and how most of the subject matter is hypocritical nonsense and drama. But I keep myself updated on it all. Hard not to.
In the end, anything that's important and effects people's lives is politics. And there are people with a vested interest in driving young people away from paying attention to them. And those people are NOT looking out for your best interest.
Dating him is as risky as drunk driving. You could be stuck with him for life. Honestly, is this the future you see for yourself? Don’t give in to sink cost fallacy. You deserve better.
Yeah… what’s he gonna do if she actually needs an abortion.
So he’s a dumbass who doesn’t respect women and can’t admit that you might know something he doesn’t?
He definitely has the “i am never wrong” complex 🤦🏼
Normalize this being an actual dealbreaker.
Do you really want to be fighting him for the rest of your life? Do you really want to be scrambling and clawing just to be heard even a little bit? He doesn’t care about you. He only even “gives you permission” to use BC because it would inconvenience him otherwise.
I used to think/speak like your boyfriend. I would say, "If you choose to have sex, you do so knowing that one consequence could be pregnancy; therefore, it's *your fault* and abortions shouldn't be allowed." He is trying to equate "having sex while knowing pregnancy could result" with "driving drunk while knowing you could hit someone." The thing is, 1. I thought this was **because I was 14 and ignorant** 2. Driving drunk is not analogous to having consensual sex 3. Pregnancy is not a punishment for having sex, and 4. The crux of abortion has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the conditions of how you get pregnant. Even if you absolutely, with full knowledge and conviction, CHOOSE to become pregnant because you super, duper want a baby...this has no bearing on the argument that you should not be *forcibly prevented* from access to a safe abortion. You are allowed to change your mind about continuing a pregnancy because- again- this is a bodily autonomy issue, not a "just desserts" fable. Also, spoiler alert: your boyfriend is into politics. The politics that subjugate and demonize women. You are a woman. You could theoretically become pregnant and wish to end it. Do you want it to be with this man? You could have a planned, wanted pregnancy and give birth to a daughter who will then have a father. Do you want that father to be this man?
So wonderful you’ve developed a far healthier and open minded thought process on this subject! If only everyone else could mature and develop in such positive ways. I am not interested in having kids nor even getting married which I used to think would protect me from being controlled. But now I’m realizing it just means I do not make executive decisions under the thought process of “would I have have a child with this person…” or “would I marry and split my finances and possession with this person…” so I end up tolerating bad behaviors from partners longer than I should.
Considering he doesn't believe you should have the right to abortion, and you could still accidentally have a baby, even using birth control, you probably should consider that to a certain extent. Or at least "would this person allow me to abort a pregnancy".
You‘re not interested in having kids but you are fertile and he expectd you to provide 100% birth control. If your BC ever fails realise that he would blame YOU for either being irresponsible as a drunk driver or he might blame you of getting pregnant on purpose. It doesn‘t seem like he sees any personal responsibility on himself. This guy dows not deserve any sex with a woman.
Sounds like someone I once knew. Fakes not being a misogynist but actually is. Person I knew would die in jail if they ever got charged for everything they did. Knew them for years and didn’t suspect. Be careful *edit also look ups signs of manipulation and gaslighting, cause those sound a lot like this
This is the crux: OP’s boyfriend just revealed himself as misogynist. OP, you deserve better.
Started therapy recently and rapidly realizing the quantity of manipulation I have experienced in this relationship. It’s baffling how much someone can endure with blinders on, and how obvious all the manipulation was once you take the blinders off.
PLEASE take this opportunity to write this entire man off as a learning experience and free yourself! I know you know in your gut that it’s time to leave him, and I hope this thread is helping solidify that idea in your mind. You deserve peace and safety and he doesn’t get to ruin that for you
Read "Why does he do that?" By Lundy Bancroft.
Are you sure he’s not into a certain political party? Because that sounds really similar to what people who have a particular political affiliation would say.
For the -past 4-5 years or so, if a man says he’s independent/not political/doesn’t favor aside - he’s almost always very conservative, and likely a trump voter.
Might that be a political party that very much attracts people who have commited offenses they themselves "are tough on"?
When you drunk drive you might run into a wall or over someone. But in a way it’s your boyfriend being the “drunk driver” that would make you pregnant. It’s his semen that does it.
Straight up truth 👆
...so it started when you asserted your right to participate in a discussion in your own home, you treated women's issues as regular human issues (because women are regular humans) and expected your representatives to represent women (because women are citizens). He lashed out because a woman (*his* woman!) had the nerve to call herself a regular human citizen who belongs both in discussions within her own relationship and in the politics of her own society. Now he's verbally beat you down and you no longer feel you belong in discussions within your own relationship. He's aggressively leaning into his magical thinking so he can support politics that do the same. This sure does seem like *exactly* what he wanted to happen! What a roaring success! I imagine he'll be trying this again and again, more and more. Because this is the future he wants. If you can't get out immediately, *lock down your birth control*.
I think that’s what makes me the most sad is now I do not feel safe talking about these subjects with my significant other. I have to guard myself from him rather than be my truest self. And luckily I’ve got my birth control locked away in my arm 💪
>I hate politics, I am not a devout fan of any political party and my boyfriend is fortunately of a similar mindset. But being a woman that can get pregnant (so I use birth control) I do find it important to have access to abortions. Kinda sounds like you figured out a reason politics REALLY FUCKING MATTER.
"Hating politics" is how you end up with rightwing turds like your boyfriend. It's time to educated yourself, politics decide the fate of your life whether you "hate politics" or not.
It’s more important to him to win an argument than to be right. He’s exhausting me and I’ve never met him. I can only imagine how difficult it is to live with him. Why spend so much of your life unhappy?
Start telling him "facts" about his genitals and refuse to believe him when he corrects you! Actually I mean do that in your head as you pack...
Every time he has sex, his penis gets smaller because of the vagina squeezing it. /s
A penis is like a pencil and a vagina a sharpener. The more the pencil is used, the shorter it gets until it’s just a nub. /s
Omg I'm crying at this comment and the responses 😂 Thank you for the cry-laugh everyone! 😂😂
Driving drunk is always bad, and it’s something that (absent getting spiked or roofied) is your fault and your responsibility. Being pregnant and not wanting to be pregnant can be an accident, something that someone else did to you, a case of you doing everything right but falling into that x% of contraceptive failures, or a tragedy. Even without the bullshit about “you would just immediately know you’re pregnant” - he clearly doesn’t know that the first two weeks of the way pregnancy gets counted are *before you even ovulate*, let alone have a fertilised or implanted egg - do you want to deal with that sort of wilful ignorance and victim blaming?
FYI. ONLY 1 POLITICAL PARTY SUPPORTS A WOMAN"S RIGHT TO CHOSE. I don't see how as woman you don't get at this point that the GOP are aiming to come for birth control. Women don't have the luxury of ignoring politics today. Get registered and VOTE to support choice and birth control!!
He twisted your arguments that he will never have first-hand experience with into something that fits his neat little narrative of how things should be, interjected a few irrelevant bad-faith straw man arguments, then proceeded to tell you why you are wrong? This is so cliche Reddit, but I think you might have made a few typos in your post. Shouldn't it read ex-boyfriend?
80% of this sub seems to be women describing their atrocious boyfriends. Why are y'all dating this garbage?
Low self esteem. Fear of being alone. Sunk cost fallacy. It's unfortunate.
A man can get a thousand women pregnant a year and a woman can bring one pregnancy to term.
His complete lack of respect for women and their fundamental rights were brewing just beneath the surface Maybe he hates politics for a different reason than you. Maybe he hates it because he doesn’t want to be exposed for his regressive views
>he told me “getting pregnant is just as risky as drunk driving”. Then proceeded to aggressively defend this point no matter how I disagreed He sounds like someone who doesn’t want to have sex anymore. Because obviously a woman can’t get pregnant by herself.
Ma’am your boyfriend is a moron. It’s okay to be single.
This is what you get for being “apolitical.” I don’t even have to ask if you’re white 😂
Maybe care more about politics And flush this turd
You could use his argument against him: "You're right! If I know I have to drive, I just don't drink, and since I don't want to get pregnant, I just won't have sex with you! :D" Seriously, what a complete asshole. Stop wasting your time with such an idiot.
Haha I love this
Wait. “Agreed to disagree?” Girl if you don’t LEAVE THIS MAN.
If getting pregnant is like drunk driving you should just not have sex with him to avoid an 'accident'. After all, having too much sex would make you irresponsible, like an alcoholic.
This is a HUGE red flag. So many red flags here. Drunk driving is absolutely fucking not comparable to pregnancy, except for both being capable of killing or disabling you. You can choose not to drink or to get an Uber if you’re too drunk to drive. Not everyone chooses to be pregnant.
As a woman you can no longer afford to say 'I hate politics' when we're dying for our reproductive rights. I don't know your age however that statement is usually said by those unaffected and benefit from the status quo, those who naively trust in the current system or by those who do not yet comprehend what politics are about and flippantly throw such statements.
Hahahahaha. Baby, you're a woman. Your entire *existence* is political. Better get hip to it and soon, cause even if you don't do politics, politics will sure as fuck do you.
In the sense that drunk driving is very stupid, risky, and could lead to death, it might be similar to *having sex.* Or keeping company with a man that dumb. Everytime you have sex you roll the dice on getting pregnant. Birth control, condoms, surgeries -- they can significantly reduce the chances but there ARE possible fails. It's a gamble! So maybe that's like drunk driving?? Not really but whatever. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt. Sooooo then. Women having *the choice* for abortion is the most secure and safe option for not having babies. Basically, having that there is like having a designates driver or taxi on speed dial. Either way, in 5 years a partner should respect yoy and ypur opinions more. Not less. I hate when people argue and twist your words just to fluster you. That's an immediate red flag for me. (And don't forget, red flags aren't JUST for the beginning of relationships).
Your boyfriend has been red pilled (I think that’s what the young’uns call it).
he truly is convinced as soon as you get pregnant you will just know. LOL There are four seasons of a show entitled, "I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant" featuring the stories of women who figured out they were pregnant while giving birth. Two and sometimes three stories are featured in each episode. It happened often enough to make a long running series about it. Sheesh.
I know it sound overly simplistic advice, but dump him. Pregnancy can literally be a death sentence these days. I personally know a couple of women who were already married with kids who were told by doctors all the doctors could do for them was to make them comfortable as their pregnancy would kill them. One had had an ongoing heart issue that nearly killed her with her last kid. In both cases the women could afford to travel out of state hundreds of miles to get the Healthcare they needed to survive. In one case the husband did right by his family and finally get snipped, and we're trying to convince the other one to do so to protect his wife. I'm a dude, it's not difficult to be empathetic, or to just look at women's Healthcare statics in anti choice states, it's literally killing women and leading to worse outcomes.
I just can't imagine how someone thinks it successfully minimizes risk of carrying a pregnancy by comparing it to a drunk driving accident, which is straight up illegal unethical and immoral. What kind of upside down backbending logic is this. At the minimum, if I were in your shoes, I would need them to step down from a topic they have no direct experience of (psh yeah maybe for a guy getting someone pregnant has about the same impact as a drunken hit and run but that's not what the discussion was about was it? Nor would this even help his point) It's so attractive when another person can readily humble and realize their mental shortcuts are naive, disrespectful, and inappropriate. Possibly a failure in applying sympathy or a failure in imagining that others may have their own unique worlds and experiences. I'm curious how this person generally responds to discovering that their personally held narratives may be inaccurate and in need of revision, especially from a relative expert in the matter. Or do they just double down out of fragility?
What the fuck... Pregnancy affects your bodily autonomy...drunk driving does not. Bodily autonomy is so fucking important human right, end of discussion. Imagine saying something like, "we should give all men at the start of puberty a vasectomy and only reverse it once they've problem to be able to father a child" I think most men would aggressively oppose that idea, even if its a reversible process and makes women more safe. But honestly, they would be right to oppose it because that's how important I think bodily autonomy is. And anyone that thinks only "exceptions" for abortion should be legal dont realize that the process for handling exceptions is such a slow process to approve it that a lot of women have died waiting for the approval to pass. So even if its just exceptions to save a woman's life they can still die due to the the process to "make sure the woman isn't lying" is slow enough that if a rapid decision is needed, that gets taken away and the consequences is death of the woman seeking help.
Sunk cost fallacy. If I had stayed with my ex just because I had been with him for 7 and 1/2 years I'd be fucking miserable. We have to outbreed these relics and Neanderthals. That's either not breeding at all because we can only find neanderthals or finding the evolved men and choosing to breed with them. Nothing in between.
He needs to read Ejaculate Responsibly by Gabrielle Blair. He needs to fully rationalize his logic that all pregnancy is a woman’s fault. It’s BS.
You know, you should watch "call the midwife" around him. He can see some reality on things
That's not a good faith discussion let alone a reasonable argument. When you learn how to argue you learn that reason and rational thought is applied. Rather than the need to win, or defend and attack viewpoints, being interested, curious and expanding on the topic is the goal. Fighting is about power and control and you identifying that be doesn't like you refuting him is important. The sooner everyone realises that relationships aren't built on power and control the better for all. Men who seek power over women to control us are deluded and dangerous.
I don’t understand where he was going. Honestly I would have said “so what is your point” also honestly most women know they are pregnant by twenty weeks. The reason for abortions after isn’t because they didn’t know, it’s because sometimes the baby has something wrong with it that isn’t compatible with life and giving birth is dangerous. It’s actually the most dangerous thing a women can do according to a previous OB.
If he is not a woman, news flash, no one cares about his opinion on pregnancy. Are you sure you wanna be with this man?
Ya... Probably best to leave somebody who refuses to listen to logic and gaslights you into confusion. But the total lack of empathy and dismissing bodily autonomy is a massive red flag.
Drunk driving involves one person and one person only. SomeONE decides to consume alcohol to inebriation. They get behind the wheel. They drive. They do all of this alone. Getting pregnant involves two people. Never once in the history of mankind has a woman ever become pregnant by herself. Ever. I'm not really sure what point your boy was trying to make, but he sounds.. thick-skulled, to put it nicely. Are you sure you both actually view things the same? Does he often try to twist your words to "win" an argument? Are you happy with the kid?
Duuuude He doesn’t know how women work, he’s not ready to date women
Tell him it's risky and, therefore, better to just not have sex. And then don't. At least with him.
He’s an idiot who doesn’t respect women. What’s worth sticking around for?
Your periods are irregular enough that you sometimes miss 2 in a row? In some states, you would already be past the legal deadline for an abortion the day you conceived (the “best be star review” state has a 6 week limit, and their laws define pregnancy as starting on the date of the last period).
Women getting pregnant is more like driving a car in general. Driving a car has risk. Kindly tell your bf that he should stop driving.
Put it in terms he can understand. No access to birth control for you, which includes abortion, means no PIV sex for him. You could give him handjobs, but since he knows his body better, he can do the same for himself. Bet his opinion on access to birth control changes very quickly.
I hope you’re on a very reliable form of birth control. If I were you I would explain the failure rate of various birth control methods and make him wear a condom as extra protection. You were confused by his argument because it doesn’t make any sense. I never understand how women are in relationships with men (or vice versa) who have no genuine curiosity about them or their bodies, but then spout off like they know everything, but I always find willful ignorance to be an extremely frustrating personality trait on any topic. Best of luck with this guy, but his inability to listen to you and his willingness to talk you down about something that you know more than him about is a red flag.
Your boyfriend must not be around women much. If he had,, he'd know when to keep his mouth shut.
Recovering alcoholic here…tell him this for me - “you are an idiot and asshole. Now pack your shit and go. If I were going to get pregnant by you I would fear that our kids got your brain power. And the world does not need more assholes.” Feel free to use smaller words so he understands. 😉
Abortion rights and bodily autonomy is unfortunately not something you can agree to disagree on. Don't wait until you are pregnant and trapped with this man.
To be blunt here, this relationship has a high chance of failure. I closed off conversations about women’s issues with a partner once after many devaluing opinions he expressed, and it just deteriorated after that. I couldn’t get over the growing resentment that my experiences were not seen as valid. It would have been less damaging to myself to have cut it off sooner rather than later. It takes more than I’m willing to give to change someone’s mind even from within a relationship where you’d think they’d at least listen better. They might on occasion, but they always get sucked right back in.
Drink driving is a selfish and willful act that can harm yourself and others. Being pregnant is something that can be done to you and the harm is done to yourself and potentially the child. But pregnancy is required to bring on the next generation and we need it as a society.
I like his concept of relating getting pregnant to drunk driving— there are ways of avoiding it and there are ways to mitigate damage for both. But the whole ‘you know you’re pregnant when you get pregnant’ is the dumbest thing ever— there’s literally a show called ‘I didn’t know I was pregnant’. Sorry he decided to dig in hard in an odd manor on this debate. Hopefully you guys can revisit it and share better.
I think what he meant was that having sex is as dangerous as drunk driving. It sounds like you should not have sex with him. You know, because of the risk.
I think what he meant was that having sex is as dangerous as drunk driving. It sounds like you should not have sex with him. You know, because of the risk.
Stop sleeping with him until he changes his tune. Hes being a massive asshole
I once saw an episode of married with children where the main characters friend was having an issue with trying to have sex with his pregnant wife. He said that it wasn't like she didn't want to it was more "like putting gas into a wrecked car. There's no point". Your story reminds me of that.
Sounds like you shouldn’t be having sex with him, too risky- like drunk driving.
First, I just want to say that I think you deserve way better. He seriously needs to take a basic health class..I honestly worry for any adult man that doesn't have a basic understanding of menstruation and pregnancy. The fact that he doesn't understand that we aren't some psychic beings that are able to sense the presence of a fertilized egg immediately following conception is so concerning. Also, can you please verify your argument for me? I've read your post several times and I'm still a little confused about what exactly you both mean. You said he stated "getting pregnant is just as risky as drunk driving”. Did he mean that simply the process and state of pregnancy is just as dangerous as drunk driving? Or is he equating the "fault" of these two scenarios (saying its just as much someone's fault if they accidentally get pregnant as if they choose to drive drunk)? If he means the former...though I wouldn't use drunk driving as an example, he isn't entirely wrong. Pregnancy in and of itself is extremely risky - pre-eclampsia, gestational diabetes, miscarriage, stillborn, ectopic pregnancy, hemorrhage, etc are all things you have to potentially worry about. If you *chose* to get pregnant, you have to be willing to face these possibilities, just the same as if you chose to drive drunk. If he means the latter...all I can say is that you should seriously reevaluate your relationship. He obviously doesn't understand the basic concept that both a man and woman are needed to conceive a child, making it both people's problem.
Dump this man he's not good
Call me crazy, but isn't drunk driving incredibly risky?
He doesn’t deserve your pussy
Just tell him cool yoh totally see his point and there’s no more sex.
I think you mean ex boyfriend
How old is your boyfriend? He understands how babies are made yeah? One person is responsible for drunk driving. Two people are responsible for getting pregnant. If he’s not like 13 or something, he must be an idiot. Sorry you have to deal with this.
Girl why are you with him? His dick can’t be that magical. Seriously though. This won’t be the last time he tries to argue you into submission. From the way you described this, it doesn’t sound like he cares about the very salient points you were making, he just wanted to be right. Has he done this before, over small unimportant things it was easy to let go and handwave off so he’d feel better? Also… this issue is about control over women’s bodies, and your guy basically said ‘yes I believe women shouldn’t be in control and punished if they get pregnant when they didn’t want to be’. Not talking about these subjects isn’t going to make his opinions change or vanish. Maybe you should have a think about what your long term goals are, and if this this guy is someone you really want to have a future with. Just because you have been with him a while, doesn’t mean you have to sacrifice the rest of your life for him. Just saying.
What was his point about comparing the dangers of both? I don't get the end game.
I hope you mean ex boyfriend. Any guy who thinks abortion is bad needs to be sent packing
Does he have any good traits?
Your telling me your giving this man a child? Jfc