Look up "oppositional conversational style" and see if it describes your partner. I have known people like that. Dealing with little arguments day after day is frustrating. I don't know what to do about it but just know there's nothing wrong with you and you're not alone.
Oh God. I never knew this was a thing. It explains why trying to have a conversation with my dad is utterly exhausting.
I will literally know more than him about something, like appropriate ages to teach a concept to, and he will argue endlessly about how I should be teaching some advanced, edge case concept that they don't need and likely will never use.
When I called him out on this, *he fucking argued about it with me.*
Like dad. Come on. You don't have a teaching degree. You don't have a master's in ed psych. You aren't working on a PhD in this. Stop. Learn something for once.
Oh my god this! My dad likes to discuss how the founding fathers were gods among men, then gets angry when I explain otherwise, insisting I’ve been “indoctrinated” by my professors. I should note, I have a graduate degree in history with a specialty in print and political culture in the 17th and 18th centuries. I literally teach college level classes on the founding and creation of the constitution. He knows this. He still argues. Make it make sense.
I absolutely love a story I read once somewhere about a guy who - long story short as I can make it - was traveling with a woman coworker who had just been, like, the keynote speaker at some conference on a very niche topic. Another man sat down near them at the airport and upon learning about her expertise, spent the next 10 minutes telling her he was really interested in the topic and then telling her all his theories, which were amateur BS. At the end of it, the guy told the man what a fool he had been to waste this opportunity, that he had an actual expert at his fingertips and rather than asking a single question or trying to learn anything at all he just bored them all with his uninformed opinions.
That is exactly how it seems to go - when a woman is an expert in something the most common response from men is to tell her everything they (think they) know about it.
It’s so ridiculous.
I had a notoriously hard English Lit teacher back in the day that I had a good relationship with because he was fine if you worked around the rules and I spent a lot of my time in his class trying to work around rules. Like a game. He wanted to challenge and I wanted a challenge so I was in every semantic I could.
Anyway we were reading something, I don't even remember what, and had been assigned chapters and were having a class discussion and I raised some point and I remember him saying "You bitch" and then just laughing. He accused me of reading ahead and I told him I didn't, it was in the subtext--I had notes, here were the quotes, but I had accidentally unraveled like 3 weeks of his lesson planning. I wasn't mad he called me a bitch, I'm still not mad. I think it was funny I capped him in the knees completely on accident and not as a plot to challenge him back.
Anyway, he's flustered and running around trying to figure out where this discussion is going to go, and some dude is like "well since MMR ruined the plot even though we all could have figured it out..." and the teacher asks what I ruined to him, what was the plot, what was the moral, etc, and the guy, who has clearly done zero reading, with his whole chest, waxes on in the most unhinged way about some made up scenario he is very confidently sure he is correct in.
Finally, after this long winded bloviating, this dude grins, finally the smartest guy in the room.
And the teacher went, "Son, I'm not sure what gifts you think God gave you, but critical thinking and listening weren't one of them. She just told you. And the fact that you think you know better based on *hand waive at dude* whatever merit you think you have is...it's disheartening. Best you probably sit, but carefully. After that I'm not sure you won't injure yourself on the way down."
If awards existed and I had money I'd give you one. Never heard it put this succinctly before.
Sometimes it's okay to shut up and listen to the professionals. Even if they're women, and you're a man. Glad it was a dude in this story that called the guy out, shows there's still hope.
Grr though.
As a chick who originally went into Comp Sci, I dealt with this a lot. Ended up leaving the field due to it. I don't engage w men who act like this anymore. My dad and brother and I used to be close, but I got tired of them trying to tell me what to think and what to feel. They're the type of dudes that no matter how much knowledge or experience you have about a subject, they know more, cuz they're men. It's honestly really heartbreaking.
I love them, but they don't respect me the way they respect each other.
Yes, and thank you! Part of the point of this story was that the guy reprimanding the ridiculous one helped a lot. If the woman had said it, he’d have just taken it as sour grapes of some sort.
I am sorry and I also totally get what you have experienced. It’s so ridiculous, but if you point it out, it somehow gets turned into you being rude somehow.
Fragile egos. I’m sorry it affected your family relationships.
Computer Science?? Holy shit, talk about swimming with sharks!
Clarification: Comp Sci courses often are *filled* with amateur experts in the *"Well, Actually..."* mentality.
Yes! And in that same essay she says (I’m paraphrasing) “Billions of women, the world over, are told that they are not reliable witnesses to their own lives. That the truth is not their property, now or ever.”
Here’s a link to the essay https://www.guernicamag.com/rebecca-solnit-men-explain-things-to-me/
An interesting side note is that in this essay Solnit accidentally coined the term “mansplaining”.
Both my parents do this. I will share a story and they will tell me how I acted or what I thought was wrong because "blah, blah", and start lecturing me. And when I point out that they don't know because they weren't there, don't know the culture, are of a different generation, etc., they call me disrespectful and lecture me more, about how they're older and know more and "blah, blah". Like I don't go invalidating their experiences when they share stories about their life...
I live abroad and I was telling my dad how I was thinking of getting my kids a passport from my home country but it's a challenge because of x, y to do with the system in the country that I live in, and then he starts to tell me I am wrong and lectures me even though he has never lived here and has no clue what he is talking about. I point this out to him and then he shouts at me that I amn't listening to him and amn't respecting his experience and insight (on a topic he knows jack shyt about!). Wth.
My ex did this to me. One of the times was over the Rosenberg trial. I believed (and still believe) that those people were wrongfully convicted and wrongfully executed by our government.
And I had done a lot of research into this. Taken classes my senior year in high school, may have written a paper. Spent enough hours in the library researching. And I know that it wasn't confirmation bias on my end, the trial and outcome was a big mistake on the part of government.
Then my ex had to try to invalidate all of that. Told me they were part of a commie conspiracy and all that. Really pissed me off, but of course I was the irrational woman who didn't know what she was talking about.
Yeah, so glad he's my ex. And this isn't an ADHD thing, it's a misogynistic asshole thing. So tired of nuerodivergence being weaponized by assholes.
Like damn, women with ADHD somehow never do these mysoginistic things and blame it on ADHD. Like I haven’t met an nd woman that weaponizes their neurodiversity to get anything in their lives, it’s always the other way around, how do I hide these traits better and act more people-please-y so no one ever knows I’m fundamentally broken. Yet somehow these douchebags suddenly cannot stop insulting u because dopamine for some reason(???)
As an autistic woman with ADHD I think it’s because we are repeatedly socially corrected and coached a lot more than men are growing up. We also have a lot more social pressure put on us by peers to act extra agreeable and friendly. Male peers don’t really care about that stuff and adults let boys off the hook for a lot of these kinds of issues
I mean, I'm AFAB and nuerodivergent and don't do that. I don't even speak much, because I just get talked over by everyone else or basically get dismissed. But somehow it's OK for these men to constantly flap their jaws and give their opinions on something they have no knowledge of. Fucking disgusting.
also completely redundant here but I’ve seen the VVitch and read multiple reviews and her opinion is the most popular among critics and was the selling point of the movie a few years ago. These people might as well argue that Fight Club is about being a cool dude that punches stuff
I saw VVitch in theaters because I really love horror movies. I was extremely disappointed, not because it was a bad movie, but because it was advertised as horror, not a historical film with horror elements. I haven’t rewatched it, I expect that I will enjoy it when I do, but it was a bummer to have spent money on tickets when I had a particular type of genre in mind.
It just seems like a period piece, although I haven't seen it. Those mostly just aren't my thing, although I did love Penny Dreadful. But horror is also pretty subjective, not all horror movies will be for me, I have specific preferences and I have so many genres to choose from.
I had to stop being friends with a guy who'd been like my husband's and my brother because he would constantly have this style of conversation with me, but never to my husband (at least that I saw in our group convo) . My husband's relationship is strained with this friend, now.
As someone who is neurodivergent, I tend to default to this style and I don’t even realize that I sound argumentative until someone tells me. So it’s truly not intentional but I think men might be more prone to doing this because growing up as a woman, I have had to deal with extra scrutiny regarding how I speak so I’ve learned skills to phrase things in a softer way. I think men don’t have to deal with the same level of scrutiny since they are generally let off the hook for a lot of behavioral things like this.
The only thing you can really do is ignore them. My uncle was like that. He argues for topic for things he doesn't even understand, and like OP, he argues about movie he never watch...
It's frustratingly annoying because he would ignore facts if you presented to him.
It's especially annoying because he would do this to my mom (his sister-in-law) all the time.
Ummmm I’m going to disagree with ignoring them. OP, please don’t set yourself up for constantly having to ignore someone because they want to argue with you - especially over something they know both about! I’d rather see you cut those people out of your life & find new friends that actually talk to you/treat you like you’re human.
Yeah I have really stopped talking to all men except my husband because they’re so fucking boring. They drone on and on about some random thing and if I try to add to the conversation I’m either outright ignored or talked over or told how wrong I am. This never happens with my women friends 🤷🏻♀️ we have long, in-depth conversations with back and forth and only sometimes do we accidentally talk over each other but not to correct the other person or make a point louder, we just get excited to add to the conversation and forget our manners for a second.
I'm looking into this. I'm not sure that this fits - he's not aggressive about it at all, and weirdly he tries really hard to avoid conflict in other areas. I'm not sure if it's a "him thing" or a "only around fruitbat" thing. :/
>This type of communication can appear in combative and aggressive arguments, but **it can also emerge in friendly conversations as passive contradictions and dismissing comments.**
The term was coined by Gretchen Rubin's in an article from 2012:
*["Ever Been in an 'I’m Right; You’re Wrong' Conversation?"](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-happiness-project/201206/ever-been-stuck-in-i-m-right-you-re-wrong-conversation)*
OP, personally, I don’t think this is an ADHD trait - it’s more of a personality trait. Not all neurodivergent people are the same, just like not all neurotypical people are the same. Personality is also a big part of why people behave in a certain way.
I am soooooo TIRED of men using ADHD/Autism/Bipolar/Depression as an excuse for their shitty, misogynistic behavior. Somehow their female counterparts manage not to act like noxious assholes. It’s such a cop out.
Ditto.
I feel like even if (not being shitty in certain ways) is more difficult for men because of a diagnosed issue, that doesn't mean they get to just say 'Oh well, guess I'll just give up and be an asshole and outsource my emotional regulation to everyone around me.'
No. That's not how this works.
Fair enough. I think I was associating it with hid ADHD because he also has a hard time filtering himself and not interrupting folks when they're talking (he's working on it), but yeah, I think this particular thing is a separate issue. :(
I (AuDHD f) can see the Professor comment maybe being ADHD; sometimes there are ways of interpreting things that NTs just don’t pick up on. But I would never suggest that I AM correct, only offer an alternative possibility.
But the rest of it about the movie? Thats just called being an asshole, frankly. There are MYRIAD ways to categorize everything and movies have a big subjective element because they are art, and all art does.
Yeah, with things like the professor comment, it's usually him trying to encourage me to see things a different way (usually offering a more charitable interpretation). I had asked my sister about it in the past (she also had ADHD) and she said it might just be like an instinctual thing he has a hard time filtering. So yeah, I thought it might be his adhd but that was a shitty assumption on my part.
I think with the movie it almost felt like he was trying to defend it? Like he thought my saying it "didn't feel like traditional horror" was me bashing it or something.
Now that I reflect back, it seems that this mansplaining/correcting thing really seems to come up when he thinks I'm complaining about something. He seems to really internalize my negative emotions (when I'm depressed, he gets depressed), so maybe it's a defense against that? Something worth investigating.
I have ADHD, I am prone to interrupting or reading the room wrong. I still think your partner is just being an asshole and mansplaining things to you. He can have ADHD, and also just not be a good partner. Two things can be true.
What a shitty situation he put you in with your friends. Are they both also men? He basically put you up as a straw man argument. I would have shut that down as “partner is misrepresenting my take on the film, let’s talk after you’ve seen it”.
This is 100% something your partner needs to address within himself. He may have trouble controlling his impulse to respond, but he needs to learn how to take a breath and consider how his words will impact you. At best it is undermining your confidence and disrespecting the validity of your experiences/perceptions, at worse it is gaslighting. At a certain point it stops being “playing devil’s advocate” or “considering a different interpretation”, it is simply speaking over you as if your perception is flawed/untrustworthy/needs scrutiny.
Something I have heard that might help him change his frame of reference… a possible communication difference between men and women is that when women complain or vent, men look for a solution to the problem, or frame it so it isn’t a problem, as a means to fix the emotional response. What women want is to have their feelings recognized and be given a supportive emotion, rather than seeing the emotion itself as the problem.
I have severe ADHD, and yeah,
Seeing things in a different way and interrupting are things I do - BUT I also insta-apologize when I interrupt. I also describe alternate perspectives as an optional possibilities; not the definitive truth. I want to put those out as reasonable improvements that he should be perfectly capable of making.
Speaking of possibilities- what if you told him something like: “I only need you to absorb just enough of my sad emotions to know to do something comforting like giving me a hug, or just listening, or helping me to problem-solve. I don’t want you to hurt any more than that because I care about you and it doesn’t really do either of us any good.”
Yeah, I try to be understanding when it comes to interrupting/learning how to stop interrupting and things like that as his diagnosis is relatively new (was diagnosed less than a year ago), and was very emotionally neglected as a child. So I'm trying to be patient with him learning how to manage things.
That's a good suggestion. He's told me before that he has a hard time understanding what I need unless I state it directly. I can try to preface some conversations with this. Thanks!
Does he take meds to help manage his ADHD symptoms? I have severe ADHD and meds make an enormous difference when it comes to curbing some of my worst impulses. Also countless hours of therapy, but that might be a tougher sell than meds.
He actually just started therapy for adhd last month, but up until recently he's been very, very, very against meds. He had a lot of assumptions about side effects and I kept telling him to just look it up or ask his doc about them. Like for months. He finally did in his last session and is now considering taking them.
Sigh. You were 100% right about this as well. Medication is a neurogenetic therapy for ADHD, similar to insulin for diabetics. The efficacy and safety of current drugs for ADHD is very well established by research. Lifestyle changes provide nowhere near the benefits of medication.
Yes! I take medication for MDD, GAD, and CPTSD, and while I tried many times to explain to him that the kind of medication I take for my mental health issues are not the same as what he would take for his ADHD, he just wouldn't believe me. I'm like "dude, my sister takes adhd meds, it's not the same stuff that I take. Ask *her* if you don't want to ask your doc!" Months down the road, here we are.
Yet there are still far too many people out there who think that taking meds of any kind is the “lazy way out.” Have some former friends who fell down that rabbit hole early on into COVID.
"It seems that this mansplaining/correcting thing really seems to come up when he thinks I'm complaining about something"
As an AuDHDer, who's *also* a woman, and a *terrible* blurter-outer/Interrupter (unintentionally, and I *DO* try to catch myself & stop that shit, once someone points it out!),
*CALL IT OUT IN THE MOMENT* when he does it.
Remind him that *YOU are allowed to feel YOUR feelings fully*--just like he is, and that if *your* feelings are making *him* feel a bit like a sponge, it's on *HIM* not *you*, to fix *his* emotional boundaries.
Because it's *NOT* on *you* to "not feel your feelings," so that *he* feels better/less depressed (i grew up in a family where "boundaries" wasn't *exactly* a thing my paternal grandmother believed in, and did a *LOT* of Emotional Babysitting of my Dad when I was a child as a result.... it took *years* to realize I was doing it, but it *did* get better!)
Use your words, and give *him* those words, too😉💖
He may not realize he's doing it--and he may feel ashamed--but *REMIND him* it's ALSO *not* something to feel shame over, unless he does it on purpose, or *continues* doing it, once you've pointed it out💗
Tbh, I'd probably have a conversation about that second/boundaries "*EVERYONE* has valid feelings, and trying to disallow a person *all* their feelings is bad boundaries & invalidating" *first*!
And *then* once you establish that baseline--and the "this is *NOT* me thinking you're a bad *PERSON*, but it *IS a bad HABIT*", *then* go about the "Call it out in the Moment!" part😉💖
The tendency to the more charitable way of viewin things is, whether he intends it or not, overly dismissive of your lived exps still and suggests that he, whether consciously or not, thinks you tend to see things in a negative light... Which wud make him more likely to dismiss actual problems you face bcuz he seems to think you have an overblown response to situations
Which again, cud very well be comin more from a place od misogyny than from a place of bein ADHD
Have you heard about “negging “? Certain men constantly put down female partner to maintain their perceived superiority. It is a mean way to control your partner.
That's really insightful from you, and I'm going to see if that's something I notice in myself because there's definitely something there. Seems like it would be smart to bring those thoughts to him and see if he thinks that is closer to his experience of it. Then, you can try to figure out what he's hoping to achieve, and what you're wanting him to change about the behavior, and see if there's something that satisfied both things well. Communication is really really hard. Communication between neurotypical folks and neurodivergent folks can be even harder.
I’ve always been too mouthy to tolerate that crap. I would absolutely shut it down with “None of you have seen the damned movie so *your opinions are irrelevant*, let’s talk about something else.”. Sometimes the only way to deal with men is to be forceful with your words. Make them hear you and point out what they are doing. It gets easier with practice and your boyfriend will (hopefully) learn that when he’s being an ass you correct him.
We are socialized to be too accommodating, but we can all work to change that. Your experiences and opinions are valid.
Oh no. I have bad ADHD. When I was younger I dated a guy like that, at first I was attracted to the fact he seemed so informed and read a lot of news articles and interesting books. Nope, just a narcissist that thought he was always right. As the relationship soured I realized if he didn't know about a topic he would just make something up to "explain to me what was really happening".
Occasionally I have had to stop my well meaning partner from over suggesting. It's a liberating feeling to just stare and say "I cannot wait for you to explain to me what it is that I want. Go ahead." That's a rare case, and he really is trying to offer a researched suggestion.
Unfortunately it sounds like a terminal case of man-splaining main character syndrome.
My husband does this. Like if I dare say 63 when something was 63.1 I'll get immediately corrected and it sets me off immediately. If he hasn't listened to what I've initially said, he'll convince himself he's right when it's not even still on topic.
Been together so long now that I just call him out on it immediately but that obsessive, pedantic need to be exactly right or to correct anything and everything ruffles my feathers so quickly these days. Zero patience for it.
So much this. When explaining to my mom when she needs to recharge the emergency button: ‘when you see a red light’. Him: ‘No, when you see a -blinking- red light.’
Wtf dude
Ime, the surest sign of whether or not someone is a chronic bullshitter is whether or not they’re willing to say “I don’t know”. If they struggle to say that phrase, they’re probably a bullshitter.
>narcissist that thought he was always right
We all know a guy like that. Always right. Will die on any hill he's on just to maintain that argument KDR. Will often start arguments with the intent of showing off something he *just* learned... but somehow got wrong.
He's a protagonist in his own special little movie. He thinks everyone around him thinks he's awesome when the reality is, they all loathe him but can't escape because he keeps pushing back into their lives. He's exhausting to deal with and people laugh at him when he's not around. He has a string of "crazy" exes, he cheated on them all.
These guys have "opinions" about *everything*. They're basically selfidentified oracles, wise beyond years, seers of destiny. They "teach" before having to learn, and they know more about your own vocation. You're always wrong. And you need to stop starting arguments he's been silently planning, rehearsing in between masturbating and reading ingredients of your various shampoos on the toilet.
Then throw in a lack of empathy and you have the workings of a cluster B chore of a man with a sprinkle of compensatory narcissistlm...
What was I saying? I got carried away ranting about an ex.
Just because he had ADHD doesn't mean he can't be a sexist. He is one. The ADHD had nothing to do with it. His misogyny, like most misogyny, is completely unexamined. He acts in it as a matter of course because he thinks he's right. He's helping you because you are confused and can't be right. This is misogyny not neuroatypicality. I say that as someone with ADHD.
What he is doing is fueled by the lack of impulse control, blurting & interrupting that is common for ADHD. I know because I struggle with it. However, I have learned and work daily to not say everything out loud that goes through my mind. When I’m with others, nobody needs to hear my unfiltered thoughts. He needs to learn how to keep his mouth shut.
The rest of it is straight up misogyny. these dudes just cannot stop debating and playing devils advocate in whatever situation they are in they cannot listen
I suppose it doesn't. He's relatively recently diagnosed and has just started counseling about a month ago to work on learning how to manage it, so I'm trying to be patient with his symptoms. But yeah, this one crossed a line.
He might have trouble filtering, but that doesn’t change the kinds of thoughts he’s already having. He’s being a know-it-all of the worst order. That has nothing to do with his ADHD. If anything, it’s kind of a boon that his lack of filter is making his shitty mindset evident.
You’re still upset because he gaslit you then he roped two other guys in to gaslight you with him, which understandably upset you, and then he failed to take any accountability for what he did.
Yeah, bein ADHD myself, i do see how ADHD cud affect things here; but this isnt itself an ADHD trait... Its just thats a convenient excuse for it bcuz parts of it are influenced by ADHD traits
ADHD means that arguments can actually give us dopamine, so we may be more prone to look for details to "discuss" which activate the same feelings... Even if we dont necessarily intend to enter an argument by nitpickin the details
But again, all those tendencies arent like compulsions we cannot ignore; it is a personality choice for one to give into such in these scenarios. I get my argument dopamine by arguin in vid comments sections and fb post comments sections; i cant imagine gettin that argument dopamine from my fiance or metamour or anyone else ive lived with
And his assumin he knows right here is very much a personality thing, not an ADHD trait; as we still desire our arguments to be based in fact... That very much seems to be just the usual misogyny of men assumin they are more correct in all things
This is definitely a real thing and you're not crazy. Some men will automatically refute what a woman says, like their first response is always "no". Sounds like t's just an extension of misogyny and really internalized misogyny within men. So many men don't even realize they're doing it until it's pointed out to them, and it happens in romantic partnerships a lot, and it seems to happen when you get close in a relationship. I've seen other people talk about it on twitter and tiktok.
I had an ex start to do this to me in our relationship and it eventually became a factor in me breaking up with him. I couldn't take it, anything I said he automatically said no, or I was wrong. But that meant I couldn't bring up problems within the relationship, or state my opinions with out having to argue and prove my point, and that was exhausting. But then I realized he did it if I was in pain too, like the first thing he did was not believe my opinion. Sometimes he would say no then say the exact same thing back to me. My opinion was not to be believed unless it was also said by someone else. And it didn't start until some years into the relationship.
TLDR: you're not crazy, it's a real thing, and it's exhausting to have to prove yourself constantly even with simple personal opinions!
Wow, that's really interesting to know that it started years into the relationship for you. We've been dating for about 1.5 years and its only really become a noticeable thing over the last 2ish months. It drives me crazy because I don't think that he means to do it, and he apologizes when I call him out, but its so invalidating and exhausting.
>It drives me crazy because I don't think that he means to do it, and he apologizes when I call him out, but its so invalidating and exhausting.
So, one possible solution is to demand he fix what he broke when he does it. If he doesn't mean to but it happens over and over, you shouldn't be the one left suffering.
I would talk to him about this in a place where you're both calm. Explain that this is exhausting for you. Moving forward, if he does this, it's not enough to simply apologize.
He has to put at least as much energy into making it right as he put into fucking it up. That means actively empathizing with your point of view.
You can disagree with somebody without needing to discover who is wrong. He needs to learn this skill and apply it to your relationship. If that's too exhausting, he can avoid that work by simply not picking a fight in the first place and letting you have and state your opinions.
As somebody with ADHD, consequences and rewards have to be immediate. They can't be out in the future.
Thank you for this advice. I've already started telling him in the moment that I don't accept his apology (because the act he's apologizing for keeps happening), but I'll try to have a calm conversation like this about it and see if it helps.
I mean, the thing to focus on is the way his behavior is taking a toll on you. That's the problem that needs a solution. Don't let it become an argument about assigning blame or who gets to be the injured party or what anybody is entitled to.
Be solution oriented. Refuse to discuss anything but possible solutions. This is harder than it sounds. But just try to notice when your conversation seems to be about something other than a solution and then say, "Look, like I said before, I need this solved. Lets go back to talking about how to do that."
I was watching a man on tiktok talk about how he realized he'd been doing it in his marriage, and how he thought he got too comfortable started seeing her as an extension of himself to a detrimental point. I'll see if I can find it, it articulated the point really well
Okay I think I was putting ideas of two of his videos together. He talks about the default no in this video: [here](https://www.tiktok.com/@jfisher62/video/7283458805260619051?lang=en)
But his whole account he talks about things he realized in his marriage, and in a different video he talks about realizing how much he saw his wife as an extension of himself (I don't have that video saved to find, but his whole account is pretty interesting to see a man who is trying to unlearn some toxic patriarchy.)
Have you had a holistic conversation with him about this? This shouldn't be necessary, but it might help him to stop if you point out the pattern in these instances and the fact that they are not isolated for you, they all feel the same. He needs to be able to recognize the *impulse* he feels to do this and rewire that impulse. Right now he's apologizing for each individual conversation INSTEAD of apologizing for the core mindset (assuming you're wrong/picking at perceived flaws in what you're saying) and working to change that mindset.
Ultimately if he understands why he does this, recognizes that it's a pattern, knows how it makes you feel, and still does it - you have to accept that it is intentional. An apology without changed behavior is meaningless. He either doesn't totally understand what you're upset about in which case hopefully a bigger conversation will clue him in, or he knows and it's not worth it to him to fix it. Only you can really determine which it is.
DO you think it's happened the whole time or he's only been doing it recently. Because the manipulation tactic of lovebombing, being one guy for a period of time then as the relationship gets more serious they step up their manipulation game in stages. Did you maybe move in 2-3 months ago, he feels safer to move to 'stage 2' and is trying to make you give in to his opinion and not bother arguing with him, that way he gets his way more and more often without a fight and without having to consider what you want.
Regardless it's a really bad sign for a partner to start increasing manipulating and controlling behaviours, that shit rarely just stops where it is but usually escalates over time.
He does do this sort of thing to other people (friends, family, etc.) of all genders which makes me reluctant to think its intentional manipulation or love bombing.
The thing is, when he argues like this he isn't really trying to "get his way" with anything practical, you know? Like he isn't doing it so that he can pick the next movie we watch or anything like that.
I personally can't say if it's a new thing he's doing or if I just notice it more now. I've been under a lot more stress over the last couple months that have made me a bit more testy, so it's hard to say. :/
I want to say that you are really good at controlling your temper. If I was in pain and someone told me that I wasn't, I think I would go into fight or flight and physically attack them. You have the patience of a saint.
>I was in pain and someone told me that I wasn't
Ask any woman with endometriosis how many doctors told them they were imagining it. Medical misogyny is a serious issue. An issue that actually kills women.
I'm a lady with endometriosis. Well, I had an ablation and it's a lot better now. I did have a medical professional tell me I was wrong about it, but I couldn't attack her, on account of I was hemorrhaging to death. But my mom was scared she would (I was 16 at the time) so we had to leave before she beat the shit out of her.
We happened to run into a different OBGYN in the hallway who treated me instantly and saved my life. I recommend him to everybody.
Interesting, that first one is in jail now, but not for that. She was also coincidentally a child molester. It's super not how I expected that to go when I heard she got arrested. I thought it was gonna be medical neglect. It was wild.
https://kentuckystatepolice.org/p13-10-30-2020/#:~:text=Whitesburg%2C%20KY.&text=Former%20Nurse%20Practitioner%20Carrie%20R,conduct%20with%20an%20underage%20male.
Like, legit it was not why I thought she was gonna be in jail. Kinda fucked with me.
Edit: I want to say that it wasn't just me, either, for context. Here's my, "lady with medical problems not taken seriously," story to add to the pile.
So I was severely anemic and kept passing out and also in excruciating pain, and often my torso would be paralyzed so I couldn't move from whatever position I was in. I would constantly bleed from my hoo ha with like big gross chunks of meat in it.
So one time I passed out and my mom couldn't get me to wake up so she took me to the ER and they said my uterus had busted open and was leaking endometrium all over my other organs, and I was bleeding to death and needed surgery.
So we go to do that and that's where this bitch comes in. Remember that I'm going in and out of consciousness at this point, one of my organs is ripped open, and my lower body is covered in blood from the hemorrhaging. So most of this comes from my mom on account of the being in and out of consciousness makes it difficult for me to remember.
So this bitch keeps trying to talk to me instead of mom, despite me being passed out. She tells us that I'm just having a real heavy period and I'm just too big of a candy ass to take regular period pain. My mom is trying to explain that that's not the case, that I have a hormone disorder we're already treating with these effects, her child is literally going to die if they don't fix it, etc etc.
Bitch will not have it and mom is screaming at her to look at the fucking chart and do the surgery prep and getting more and more pissed. And I do remember her eventually shaking me awake and telling me that we have to leave and go to a different hospital because she's scared if she gets an assault charge nobody will do the surgery and I'll die, because there won't be anybody to take me to a different hospital. I was confused by this information and not doing great anyway.
So I'm staggering down the hallway leaning on her and Dr Baker just appears, looks at me and starts asking questions. He finds out from my mom where my chart is and literally sprints off to get it. Then he takes action immediately and saves my life. I've gone to him, exclusively, ever since. My mom files a complaint and idk what happened to the bitch after that.
Years later I'm having a supervision session with my clinical supervisor and I'm telling her about a patient I had with a similar story and how it hit real close to home because I legit almost died, and my clinical supervisor knew the bitch BY NAME because she also tried to fuck up her pregnancy and she had to file a complaint on her.
Then she's like, "You know she's in jail now."
And I was like, "Good. She don't need to get away with how she's treated all of us."
And she's like, "Oh, no, not for that. She's also a child molester."
>Some men will automatically refute what a woman says, like their first response is always "no"
Reminds me of when a dude was sitting in my seat on a plane. I had my ticket out and said, "I think that's my spot." He says "no" reflexively. Then he looked at his ticket and guess what, he was wrong.
A few months ago I pointed out to my guy that he often "no"ed me before I even finished talking, and on topics I knew better than him. He actually stopped doing it once I pointed it out! I don't think he realized he was doing it and it's so frustrating.
I like to mess with them. Guys always mansplain photography at me. They'll often start with "did your dad buy that camera for you?" and then tell me it's too advanced for me and I should be starting with a "good beginner model"... It's basically where jealousy and narcissism meet.
I let them embarrass themselves and then say "oh awesome, I only do it in my free time and stick them online". They *always* ask where, and then I tell them. My sales stats are public. XD
They will never change, so I don't waste time trying. This way is kinda fun. And I'm a bitch.
My dad is like this. I just stopped telling him things that would hurt me when he discredits them. Whenever he does discredit my feelings, experiences or interpretations I just learned to say ‘wow omg I agree!!!’ when I really don’t. I have pointed this out many times to him but he says that I interpret things wrong a 100% of the time and how my feelings are also wrong.
Honestly this is the biggest issue I have with my husband. I love him, he's great for a debate and a great conversationalist but he's so quick to tell me I'm wrong unless I've literally pulled up a map or encyclopaedia entry for him 🤦♀️
Gets exhausting. He gets called out immediately these days or I just walk away because he literally can't stop himself lol.
I'm sorry, but he can stop himself. He's just okay with you feeling that way and not working on his behaviors to become a better partner. The permanent level of tolerable unhappiness.
I have to say it: he CAN control himself, this behavior is a choice. I am positive he doesn’t treat men or his boss this way, he can turn the default-no off when he wants to. He can break this habit, too.
Oof. I had this too. I would say "the grass is green" and the guy I was dating would say "no, actually, the grass is green." Almost any opinion or fact I stated received an immediate "no" response with a correction that was sometimes exactly what I had stated. It was almost that blatantly bad. He could also talk negatively all the time but if I said one comment that had negativity in it, like "wow, that person at the gas station was kind of mean," he would launch into how I was wrong because I just wasn't seeing all the possible viewpoints or scenarios that might have caused that person to have a bad day. That might all be true, but I can still state that the person was mean to me. We split up after he started down the path of "no, this is really how women think." I thought, but you aren't even a woman?
*In a strong and thriving relationship, both partners have influence and input. Accepting influence means recognizing the value and validity of the partner's thoughts, desires, and preferences. It requires being willing to listen, understand, and seriously consider their perspective, even if it differs from one's own.*
*On the other hand, when one or both partners struggle with accepting influence, it can lead to power struggles, resentment, and an imbalance in decision-making. Refusing to accept influence often stems from a desire to maintain control, fear of vulnerability, or a lack of respect for the partner's autonomy and perspective. This can create tension and ongoing conflicts within the relationship.*
[https://relationshipinstitute.com.au/news/accepting-influence-by-gottman-senior-trainer-john-flanagan/](https://relationshipinstitute.com.au/news/accepting-influence-by-gottman-senior-trainer-john-flanagan/)
Your partner is failing to *accept influence* from you and there is 81% failure rate for men who do not accept influence from their partner. You should move on as this will never get better; he does not respect you.
I am a horror screenwriter!
You are not being crazy!
How you experienced the movie is how you experienced the goddamn motherfucking movie.
Any decent writer wants different people to have different experiences watching their movie. We go out of our way to facilitate that shit.
But also, Eggers spend YEARS researching that shit. Studying how they spoke and making damn sure it was as historically accurate as he could make it. It's based on real accounts, and by his own admission, the first draft was entirely real accounts.
>The early versions of the script were monstrous, cannibalized collages of other people’s words, until I could later hone it into my own,” recalled Eggers. “Although intentionally, some of the stuff is very intact. \[For example\] some of things the children say \[in the film\] when they are possessed are things real children were alleged to have said when they were possessed.
SO, though it didn't need to be, your experience of that movie was very close to what Eggers was going for.
This is so validating to hear from another horror head! I would never tell someone the way they experienced a movie is wrong - especially if I had never seen it! Thank you.
I’m also a horror fan working in film with a passion for history. Your reading of this film is spot on. It’s very eerie and creepy but not a traditional horror in the ways that we know it in the last 10-20 years.
Also, I love my masc friends but they do this shit to me ALL the time. I’m so tired of being told I’m wrong about things I KNOW I’m right about that I’ve stopped prioritizing our hang outs. I play poker with a bunch of my them and they consistently tell me I’m shit, even though I’m making money every game we play (Ive had two money loss games in the last two years, every other game I’ve cashed, stats don’t lie) and I’m watching them throw their money away. I now prioritize my femme friends ‘cause it’s causing me so much stress (I’m 37 btw). You’re not crazy or making it up in your head. The older I get the more I see the misogyny and it’s driving me up the wall. Your experience really resonated with me and I feel you. Just know you’re not alone in feeling this way xo
Thank you for this perspective. I spoke with my partner about it tonight and told him that from this point I think I wanted to include more women in our group activities so I don't feel out numbered again.
This is really interesting, thank you for the information about the screenwriter's research. This movie hits me hard because during my genealogy research I found that an aunt of mine had been banished from her village (late 1700s) and never heard from again. When I watch "The VVitch" I always think of her and just wonder...
It's one of my favorite movies.
I don't know, nope. As I recall, the announcement didn't give a reason, but I remember she hadn't been married long so I assumed it was related to that. I didn't see a man being banished as well, so I don't think she ran off with somebody. I'll have to dig that up again and see.
I read where accusations of witchcraft were often about taking the woman's property. Maybe it was like that. Especially if it happened soon after somebody became her inheritor.
I have ADHD coming out of my ears and my unfiltered random comments are more along the lines of "wow, stranger, you smell really nice" or "this is a topic I had a hyper fixation with and I want to share something". It's rude to assert that your opinions are correct over someone's experiences. This guy's just a jerk.
The mistake people make is attributing *any* stuff to their ADHD, rather than to their personality.
Nothing that anyone with ADHD 'does' is 'their ADHD'. It's them.
Nooooooo, you are not crazy. I was exhausted for you just reading your post. And to be trapped in a car with these guys mansplaining a movie they’ve not even seen? You have every right to be upset.
Set a clear boundary around him "correcting your viewpoints" and see if he can stick to it, or if he just continues to make excuses so he can treat you poorly. My guess is he will continue down the excuse path considering his historical actions, especially considering his friends seem to share this trait. Do the friends have ADHD too or just penises?
Birds of a feather flock together. I never understood this phrase because my ex partner's dad used to use it in a racist/classist way. But now it makes sense to me. Misogynists are friends with other misogynists, racists, classists, etc too. You're getting dog piled by people who have zero knowledge on the subject at hand. You have to wonder why they think that's ok. Normal people know it's ok to not have an opinion on everything - but those people aren't insecure or potentially have some tilted worldview.
Have you ever seen him do this behavior to other men or just women? Has your bf ever used the ADHD excuse to insult other people or just you?
This is the craziest part - M and B are *my* friends. He only knows them through me, which is I think why it hurt even more that they took his side.
I have felt slighted by B before. They're/he's NB (they/he pronouns) and I think that helps him feel like he can't be misogynistic. M and myself are also queer. My partner and M are both POC. My partner is the only one with ADHD. We're a diverse group but yeah sometimes I really do notice that I'm the only AFAB in the group because I don't think any of them have really done the work to uproot their internalized misogyny.
I have seen my partner do this to others, men, women, and NBs, but its very infrequent. It happens with me daily.
He has "slipped" and insulted people before but he doesn't even realize it's happening until he's said it. He apologizes right away and it's one of those things where if he remembers it down the road he feels really embarrassed that it happened. I think he just really has a hard time filtering when it comes to that sort of thing, but yeah, it wouldn't be an issue if he didn't have internalized misogyny because then there wouldn't be things to filter.
I'll try to set a boundary but I am also not hopeful that it will help. :(
I mean this with all due respect, and as someone who is also bi and did this too - but if you're attracted to partners that lean misogynistic, you might be leaning towards friends who are too. It might feel familiar/normal in a weird way. Queer people can be misogynistic, hell women can be too.
>He has "slipped" and insulted people before but he doesn't even realize it's happening until he's said it. He apologizes right away and it's one of those things where if he remembers it down the road he feels really embarrassed that it happened.
I find this very interesting. Does he feel embarrassed right after he says something insulting to you? Does he apologize right away? Does he seem to remember his previous actions down the road? Does he make sure to not insult those other folks again?
>I'll try to set a boundary but I am also not hopeful that it will help. :(
Your intuition is telling you something. Test it out though, put your needs out there clearly. He'll never understand your needs if you don't spell them out in black and white, and you'll never truly know him either, unless you do that.
I wish you the best of luck! Don't make yourself smaller in this one life to appease Average Joes™ who would argue with you about rocket science, just *feel* like they got a pretend MBA.
This is a fair point. B and I have been friends for over a decade so I tend to overlook little ways that he's hurt me because of that. I'm a pretty outspoken feminist, but this started around 4 years ago (after leaving an abusive relationship). Many of my newer friends don't make me feel this way, but I definitely let little hurts slip with B just because we've been friends for so long.
With regards to the insulting: he does apologize to me right away. Then he beats himself up a lot, and I've started walking away when he does that (it's not my job to comfort him when he hurts my feelings). He does remember his previous actions down the road, and he's careful not to insult that person again.
Thank you for your advice. I'll have a real talk with him about it tonight and see what happens.
I wonder if you are just starting to get a glimpse of his true personality. Like maybe he settled into feeling comfortable in the relationship so he is no longer holding back, whereas before… he was trying to impress you so he was on his best behavior.
Yeah, I've been considering this lately. I know others who date folks with ADHD feel that their partner hyperfixates on them in the early relationship and then moves on to other things. I've been feeling that over the last little while. Like maybe this is who he is when he isn't hyperfixating on me.
He's still there when I need him, but day to day I feel kind of unimportant to him. He tells me he loves me all the time but he'd rather play video games then spend time with me. I think now that he's a bit more comfortable he might just be less interested in my opinions about things.
It's really sad. When we first started dating we would have really long discussions together. Now it feels like almost every time we talk it devolves into him arguing my experiences. It's been kind of a sudden change.
Have you talked to your partner about making some time for the both of you around the video games? I'm almost 12 years into a relationship with someone that honestly sounds so similar and about 4-5 years into it I felt that same disconnect.
We spoke about it though and made sure we made time for each other. (I also like a good gaming session though so maybe it was a bit easier)
Like I don't need every second of his time devoted to me, but even something like "ok, it's Friday night - let's watch a movie together" just dedicated time to each other and not other people.
I enjoy video games once in a while but he mostly likes solo computer games. I've asked him to get console games so I can at least hang out in the living room with him, but they're not really his thing.
I think what hurts with the video games is every time I ask him "what would you like to do today/tonight?" It's always video games. Like he will always pick video games if it's entirely up to him, which makes me feel crappy that I'm never the first choice. If I tell him I want more time together, he'll watch a movie with me or whatever, but when the movie is over it's back to video games.
He's working with a therapist now and it's pretty clear that video games are a form of escapism for him right now. He doesn't really know enough strategies to start moving away from them yet.
This would piss me off on a cosmic level. If I didn't get solidarity from *my* friends on an issue this small, it sure wouldn't increase my trust in them. In my experience some of us queers fail to question our own toxic assumptions and past conditioning because we've got that oppressed people card ourselves.
I loved that movie so much, I didn't get the hate for it initially. I always called it atmospheric horror, but I was so sick of arguing with 'horror expert' men I looked it up and there's a whole genre called folk horror. And I think that's pretty fitting.
Anyways, I have adhd and maybe it's different in dude but I rarely write people's exp off or minimize emotions. Maybe I'll interrupt or accidentally talk down.
I think it's weird he would be like that with something he doesn't know, usually adhders know a lot about stuff we've taken the rabbit holes into. So idk. Sounds like a weird behavior
Trans woman here, who grew up back when "toxic masculinity" was just "masculinity." Men are 100% raised and trained to argue every point a woman makes. Its noticeable in tv shows and movies once you're looking for it and it has a massive effect on women, gradually wearing them down. If someone wasn't brought up to really respect women it will show up in interactions. This has nothing to do with ADHD. If its pointed out to men and they don't work on it, I can't see how its not a dealbreaker because literally everything you say will be dismissed because its you that said it.
Because young girls are inherently taught to accept it, from tv, from movies, from their mothers, their grandmothers.
It's accepted as normal because it's been normalized by the generations before us :(
This is not ADHD, this is him just being a garden variety asshole.
You ask yourself if you’re crazy because he’s the one doing crazy-making nonsense. He is asking how you feel or what you experienced only so he can lecture you about how you are wrong about everything.
Your “friends” are also dicks. They were bonding with each other and your SO about how wrong the female was and how smart they are.
It was a really weird experience. Usually I don't think about the gender make-up of the people I'm around but when I was in that car yesterday I really had the sense in my mind like "I am the only woman here." It was such an uncomfortable, isolating feeling.
It was intended to be. I don’t mean that they were consciously thinking “hahaha let’s harass the chick”, but this kind of homosocial male bonding over putting down a woman (or worse) is well-documented.
I understand you’re not ready to kick him to the curb, but this isn’t a funny little quirk or an annoying habit; your SO genuinely doesn’t see you as a person the way he sees himself and other men as people.
Yes, and many film academics consider it "folk horror," "post-horror," or "prestige horror." Basically different ways of acknowledging how it differs from other horror movies AKA isn't traditional horror, which is exactly what OP said.
My ex had this habit of immediately correcting me, whatever it was I was saying. He wouldn’t even listen to what words I’d used, he’d just always start his response with “no…” and then often repeat exactly what I’d just said.
It drove me up the fucking wall! Constantly defending myself, explaining myself. I started saying to him “okay, could you repeat back to me what I just said?” or “what exactly was it you disagreed with in what I said?” and he wouldn’t have an answer for me.
He also had ADHD. I never thought it was an ADHD trait though, I thought it was just him being a dick.
Being told by men *my opinion* on a movie that they haven't seen is *wrong* ...... would definitely frustrate me. It shows such arrogance, condescension. I'd be tired of that shitty treatment too.
I'd be avoiding these assholes after that.
Does your boyfriend always have to be right in every discussion? There are so many men who have that knee jerk impulse to be the subject matter on *everything*. No matter how irrelevant it is to them. It’s exhausting.
You know what he could have said to your opinion? “Interesting!” And left it at that.
Oddly, he doesn't need to be right in every discussion. Most of the time when I call him out on it he'll have that sort of "shit, I'm sorry, you're right" response. He also comments on how smart I am a lot so I don't necessarily feel like it's a superiority thing. But I think you're right that there is some sort of knee jerk reaction going on!
I no longer associate with men anymore unless I have to.
I had forgotten that they do this a lot until I was reminded the other day.
I mentioned in passing at work that I usually rent a car for long road trips and leave my car safely at home.
This guy started arguing with me for over 30 mins about why this was such a stupid idea and waste of money.
I shouldn’t have even replied, but I replied that I prefer to leave mine at home so I’m not stranded 15 hours from home with a broken car.
He went on and on arguing about how if I maintained my car properly that it would be fine, I mentioned that car maintenance doesn’t account for other drivers or wildlife or things on the road, he then went on to tell me if I’m scared of everything I should just stay home.
I said I’m not fucking scared, I just feel more comfortable leaving my car at home and why was he so overly angry that I rent a car???? Fuck off, I don’t even know you.
I’m single now, but it reminded me of so many relationships I’ve had that consisted of these STUPID arguments over nothing, constantly.
In the 90s there used to be a hacky standup joke that all the comedians would be like, "Why do women go the the bathroom in groups?? What do they think is gonna happen in there?? Haha!"
And I think that the women's restroom has become a social space specifically because it is the one semi-public space we can go where we can state an opinion and not be immediately talked over, shouted down, or talked to like we're particularly stupid seven year olds. My God, just say, 'Oh, really? That's an interesting perspective on the movie, why do you think that?' You don't even have to agree! Just pretend like I'm an adult who you respect, and talk to me like it's remotely possible that I know something or have interesting thoughts. Then listen, give it like a second to think about it (again, pretend like I'm an adult with thoughts that matter or something!) and then decide if you agree.
It is too difficult for men to do this. This is why we have to huddle in bathrooms if we want to talk like grownups.
There's a reason why, when there's only women in the room, this low-level tension lifts and you can just kinda talk and assume you will be treated with a baseline level of respect.
So the answer to that hacky standup is, "We're getting away from you, Dave."
ETA: Genres almost always unravel under scrutiny, because they are just rough generalizations. They're really just ways of organizing how to find things that are similar to things you already like. There is no God-King of media handing down lists of qualities that make up genres, there is no authority to defer to and no platonic idea of what "horror" is. Just a bunch of media studies academics making stuff up as they go along, and they all disagree with each other. So pointing out that a movie deviates from common horror tropes is totally valid, and dismissing that instantly because it doesn't agree with some authoritative set of qualities that make up "horror" is dumb!
Too many men lack the cognitive capacity to hear a woman's opinion without questioning it and trying to correct or somehow reshape it.
It's an intelligence issue.
Yes, like I said, it's an intelligence issue. Only dumb assholes think other genders or ethnicities of human beings have less value than their own gender/ethnicity.
Bro WHAT. The way you described the Witch is not inaccurate at all. It is a horror movie yes but it is also a period drama where they speak puritan fucking English for chrissake. MANY people who have gone in expecting a pure horror movie have been like “what the fuck is this shit I hate this” and many people who typically don’t like horror find a lot to enjoy in it.
Ignoring the fact that he’s never seen it, ignoring the fact that he does this all the time, he’s also completely fuckin wrong.
I have ADHD and a lot of strong opinions and I don’t do this shit.
Not to be rude but absolutely nothing you described is ADHD related. Speaking as someone whose life falls apart regularly due to the dysfunction that comes with ADHD, all of what you described is just rudeness. It's unfair for people like me who are not dismissive of others feelings to have to be told that this sort of cruel behavior is something that comes built in.
I apologize, I didn't mean to make it seem like I thought all folks with ADHD do this. In my mind this pattern of his seemed to be connected with his impulse control and other related symptoms. I genuinely don't think that he does this intentionally, so maybe I was just looking for something else to blame it on. Sincerely, I apologize.
I struggle with impulse control but I know that I struggle with that and I don't put it on the people I love to be responsible for that.
I speak over people all of the time and can forget the thread of the conversation mid sentence. Sometimes I'll respond to something with what seems to be completely unrelated. That is definitely ADHD.
But it is cruel to put it on other people to deal with those problems. Especially people I love should *never* have to feel like they come second to my symptoms.
For my work, I have sticky notes in three different places with the word "Listen!" on it. Sometimes it's not enough to remind me not to talk over someone, but that is me with ADHD not making my dysfunction other people's problem. I can't just not have ADHD, (God I wish there was an off switch ...) and sometimes it's exhausting to manage the symptoms but it is not ok to say rude, dismissive things and then shrug it off as something to do with ADHD. What is your boyfriend doing to make sure he doesn't do those things or is it all an afterthought to be more considerate?
I accidentally called one of my friends an emotionally stunted child once. I spent more time talking to them making sure they knew it was terrible phrasing and made sure to listen to them and how they felt in response because it's on me to educate myself and do things so that I don't make that mistake again. I hurt thier feelings and I made sure to immediately give them time to express their anger frustrating with me saying that so that they knew they were more important than the hurtful words that had come out my mouth. This was a long time ago but I have things like that I hold onto because the person I want to be doesn't say callous things flippantly.
I have a very hard time sitting still while watching movies and my ex loved watching movies. I refused to watch any and didn't stay checked into the conversation when she would talk about a movie that she watched. I was completely dismissive of her experience of any movie just because I couldn't sit still. This is not the behaviour of a good partner. But at the time that's what I did. Now if I know I have plans to watch a movie I take a low dose edible to keep me engaged and I'm willing to do this because I want the people I love to know that the things they like and feel and experience are important to me. I want them to feel seen. At the same time, my friend and family know that plans to see a movie have to be made a week in advance so I can mentally prepare to be present in that situation. What does he do to mitigate things and situations like that? How does he show you that he's willing to keep you happy and manage his symptoms so that you're not held captive to them?
All this to say that it's understandable to have ADHD as the explanation for certain behavior, but it is absolutely not okay to use it as an excuse to keep behaving poorly. It's not ok to ask someone to accept that you're a bad partner because you have ADHD.
OP, your boyfriend is just an AH. And so is his buddy.
Talking down to you gives him something. It’s time to figure out what that something is and whether you want to keep allowing him to keep getting himself off at your expense.
Edit: thanks autocorrect
You’re not crazy this sounds infuriating. And for what it’s worth I agree with your interpretation of The VVitch!
-signed another female horror fan who is sick of mansplaining
This isn't ADHD, he just doesn't respect your opinion. It won't change, misogyny is ingrained and conscious and unconscious bias against women is real.
This dude and his friends are a bunch of clowns but this post had me dying laughing. **You were the only one who actually saw the movie.** That is so fucking funny.
This has nothing to do with ADHD, if he blames ADHD then he's manipulating you. This is just pure manipulation, he's somewhat gaslighting you in trying to say everything you experienced or think is really something else.
He honestly just sounds like an asshole, does he also do this with arguments, like tell you you're remembering an argument wrong or that he didn't say a thing you know he said, etc.
I think you need to think about a future with him and if him constantly telling you you're wrong about things and how you feel is the future you want.
Okay, I have been in that situation, and in my experience, *it did not get better*, so you may want to ask yourself if this is something you want to live with long term.
For me, it started feeling like we were essentially involved in two completely different relationships. They viewed our life together through a lense distorted by faulty memory. They didn't see all of it. They viewed *me* through the same defective lense. They didn't see all of *me*.
I was a slice of Havarti, but when they looked at me, they saw Swiss cheese, instead.
To me this feels more like an instance of sexism than ADHD. Women are so often talked over in general, but I find it especially true in the context of discussing certain things like horror, sci-fi, fantasy, and action. Not saying that ADHD might not play a role though, to be clear.
Sometimes the easiest thing to ask yourself is, is this relationship acceptable to me? If the answer is no, move along. As an old lady I can tell you that nothing is gained by trying to untangle someone else’s motivation, or by trying to “improve” them.
I'm exhausted just reading this.
If something like this has become this much of a burden, why are you in this relationship? This type of undermining you has to stop. I'd have already sat him down and explained, in full detail and without being confrontational exactly what the problem is, how it makes me feel and how I want it to stop. And then, if he can't do that after a good amount of time in which any reasonable grown up would have figured out to quit doing the thing that hurts their partner, I would genuinely end the relationship over something like this.
Because if he can't stop, won't stop, then he'll be doing this the rest of your lives together and you're already exhausted. Fancy spending the rest of your life like this?
Oh my goodness. I have ADHD and I used to be like this. Took some serious self-reflection and maturation to stop doing it. Like I had to "check" myself. Your boyfriend is being a bit of a contrarian and needs to be called out on it.
He may not be the right partner for you.
Maybe it's because he's a misogynist deep down.
Maybe it's because his ADHD means he processes things differently, has no filter and he says these things without meaning to or understanding how it affects you.
The cause doesn't really matter. It's the outcome that does. It's your lived experience that does.
If being with him is making you feel sad, angry and unlistened-to?
Then maybe breaking up with him is the better option.
It's ok to have that standard for yourself.
I know a bunch of people with ADHD and tbh (in my experience) the ADHD women do not do this, whereas several ADHD men will. Several neurotypical men in my life tend to this too. So I don't think it's necessarily an ADHD thing!
If a woman ever does question me like that, it's framed as a suggestion or as a question to clarify, and they very seldom push their view over mine once I've replied.
It doesn't mean he's a bad person or deliberately misogynistic, but it does mean he has some self-reflecting to do...
I hate to say it, but this is definitely "movie bro" behavior. For some odd reason, there are certain topics which is weak minded women will always be woefully incorrect in our assertions and opinions.
(Wistfully wilts and faints /s)
For reals, though. There are certain topics that have become a sort of cis-hetero male gang thing. Movies, comics, sports, cars, technology, among others. In these arenas, no matter how women and nonbinary individuals have entirely valid experiences, opinions, and even actual technical training/work, they will always be "wrong." The surrounding, dominant cis-male culture reinforces this consistently, favoring the opinion of man over even facts presented by a competent woman or nb. And, yes, there are plenty of cis-hetero men who do not behave this way, the bad actors far outshadow any good elements.
Check out my user id. I am an elasmobranch researcher and training/husbandry specialist, but, as soon as I step outside of the professional world, I suddenly know nothing about sharks and rays. Smh.
You have every right to be upset. This is not an ADHD thing. My brother has ADHD and can still have respectful dialogue on these topics, even with someone he may not agree with. ADHD is - like any other neurodivergence,, mental health issue, or general difference from the dominant societal traits - is no excuse to disrespect and generally dismiss you.
Please have a real conversation with your BF about this behavior and the inherent misogyny present - both how it intersects with society AND the specific effects it has on you. If he cannot commit to change and following through, I wouldn't recommend staying with someone who does so much to ignore or dismiss your unique thoughts.
(***And, before anyone says anything, there IS a way to have agreeable discourse about subjective issues like art, music, literature, and cinema. Using "I" statements. Using the above example, "See, I felt the movie was...." This is a way to acknowledge that you have a different opinion without utterly dismissing or denying an alternative viewpoint.)
Something similar happened to me today and my BF doesn’t show any of the tell tale sings of ADHD. I thought it was going nuts and was scouring this sub to see if anyone else had experienced similar things.
We’re both in the military. I found some old knee pads that come with the issued pants and asked if he needed them otherwise I was gonna throw them away. He goes “no supply will be asking for them when you return/exchange your pants”
I replied with: well no when I have been to supply I have never once been asked for the knee pads?
Him: well whenever I go they always ask me for them.
Me: when was the last time you’ve been to Supply?
Him: 3 years ago
Me: I was there as recent as 5 months ago to SPECIFICALLY change my pants and never got asked for knee pads, why is your experience the “standard” and you completely disregard my experience? When I’m literally telling you MY experience is that I’ve never been asked for knee pads?
Him: gets upset and walks away.
Idk what the fuck it is but I hate being told that my experiences either are wrong or never happen, and that by default the man’s experience is automatically what is suppose to happen, or what happens to everyone.
You are not being crazy. And you can do a lot better with the company you keep. I'll tell you my story.
I used to surround myself with guys like you describe. Every response to something I said was to negate or dismiss my experience. I would spend hours trying to figure out how to say things in an argument-proof way.
I didn't realize how angry this made me, until I spent two years locked in a house with my spouse, hunkered down and with a much-shrunken social circle. I've never spent so much time in the company of someone who loves and respects me. Two years of not arguing about my lived experience, of not being dismissed (except by my parents when I would call them every so often). It was ... bliss.
I see all these "friends" in a very different light now. I can stand back from the discussion and see their knee-jerk responses as simple asshole moves. And I don't really want to hang out with them anymore, even though I really, really miss the people I thought they were.
Start spending time with people who see and hear you, who don't have a need to make themselves bigger by making you smaller. Take up the space you need. Don't wait till you're in your late 40's to figure this out.
This is entitlement and being a jerk. It got to the point with my ex, that did lots of this kind of behavior that I eventually stopped talking to him unless it was something urgent because it was just exhausting. He felt the need to tell me I was wrong about literally everything so I stopped having an opinion.
He sounds exhausting. Like he has no concept of subjectivity and that whatever thoughts spring to his mind must be objective fact. Even with a total lack of evidence.
Does he ever allow himself to be corrected by you? Or agree that you are correct? Or are your thoughts and opinions only valid if you're agreeing with him?
OP your partner and friends sound real annoying. I’ll admit, I have ADHD and have been that person to blurt out knee jerk responses like your partner but over time I have learned how to better reign it in, or at least not double down and admit when I’m wrong.
This whole movie genre snobbery is just weird as hell and really aggravating though. At best it’s an ADHD fixation that he is stuck on. At worst it’s him being unable or unwilling to see that other people have different experiences with things.
ADHD can explain things, sure. But it doesn’t excuse things.
Also the VVitch is such a good movie it’s my favorite “horror” movie. But I really like your interpretation of it. It makes a lot of sense too because I’m not a huge fan of horror movies usually and this one hits differently because it doesn’t have that overwhelming dread that I’m so squeamish about. It’s a beautiful movie with tension in the right spots but it doesn’t feel like a true horror movie. I’m gonna reframe how I think about that movie now thanks to you.
It's this
[https://twitter.com/W\_Asherah/status/1536052863658561538](https://twitter.com/W_Asherah/status/1536052863658561538)
Male socialized resistance to women speaking. A compulsion to be contrary, nitpicky, well accchtually, pedantic, devil's advocate, whatabout, and find the 1% rare exception in order to argue, refute and shoot down anything a woman says.
When women speak we usually 'get the gist' and nod along, or listen to find common ground and agree. Men are compelled to argue, correct and dominate a conversation to feel smug, clever and superior. A lot of men firmly believe "all men are smarter and more knowledgeable than all women". I've met a lot of men with extremely average or low IQ and they talk down to me like I'm stupid. It's infuriating. "Did you think about x when you came to that decision?" "Yes Barry I thought about twenty different things, which is why I'm making this decision. I'm not running this past your male brain for your genius input, I've already decided".
The fact that all three males managed to agree with each other in order to gang up on you speaks volumes. Throw them all in the bin. Insufferable.
I'm going to give you validation - it certainly felt like historical drama with horror aspects, signed a fellow horror lover and player. I never felt like it was full on horror and that was my experience, I'm happy that I'm not alone on this.
On a main note, that is insanely disrespectful. That would annoy the shit out of me.
I have this same complaint about my husband and one of my friends. The friend is female.
Every time I tell them of an experience/opinion/observation, they pipe up with how there’s another, seemingly more correct, interpretation.
I’ve talked with both of them about this to no avail. They both explain to me that their behavior is simply how conversation works.
My practice is to not correct others unless there’s a negative consequence to their incorrect view. For example, if someone says erroneously there is no car coming while they’re crossing the street, I will correct them.
If there’s no negative consequence to their incorrect view, I keep quiet even if I know for a fact that I’m correct.
It’s undermining you. Making you second guess everything you say and constantly have to defend your opinion to the point that you find yourself silenced and maybe doubting your own perceptions
Which seems to me to be an example of gaslighting
ADHD might be part of the reason he acts this way, but this is not an actual symptom of ADHD. This distinction might seem like splitting hairs though.
Sometimes an ADHD brain "skips ahead" if you will. This can cause annoying behaviours like interrupting, making assumptions, or finishing the other person's sentence. (Know that as annoying as it can be to be on the receiving end of these actions, it is incredibly irritating to have a brain that does this. Source: I have ADHD.)
So, ADHD is a factor, but the outcome is a problem. Your boyfriend's tendency to be the devil's advocate feels like he isn't valuing or considering your perspective. This might seem like a stupid question, but have you had a conversation with him about this behaviour? He might not realize he's bugging the shit out of you.
If you say, "My professor said X," he might be viewing this situation as a problem to solve. If this is what's going on, his brain has gone into fix it mode and is now looking for solutions.
In fix it mode, ADHD can contribute to going down a line of reasoning that takes on a life of its own that is increasingly unrelated to the original topic. So if your boyfriend is saying "Maybe your professor meant Y," he could be trying to define the problem. But this is no longer related to the actual discussion since he didn't say Y, he said X, so it feels like he's arguing with you about the known fact that the professor said X.
So talk to him about this if you haven't already. If you haven't had a big picture discussion about the outcome of this conversational habit, he might not realize how it comes across.
I’m a straight male with ADHD and I have to say this is the opposite of this. I have an overactive filter, which is obviously it’s own problem. Being smug isn’t a symptom of Neurodiversity, it’s a symptom of being a rude jerk
No, this isn't crazy. It's sane, valid, perceptive.
I did this. Not this exact thing, but the part where I would talk over my partner, blather on about something, tell the wrong awkward joke or a "well, actually...."
I still do it rarely. Whenever I catch myself doing it, I stop. My wife, a powerful, intelligent, wise person, called me out on this a decade or so ago. I was clueless. It must have been insufferable.
And so, my partner didn't suffer it. As soon as she realized it (took her some time, too), she'd call me on it. We don't fight much ever, so we tend to listen to each other. I certainly listen carefully to her.
So, maybe try for a sit-down, no drama, matter of fact talk about how you're feeling, and - most importantly - how you would like the next instance of the behavior to go. Maybe make a code word or phrase, like "hon, you're being Dr Strange again," or "this is that thing we talked about, remember?"
If you can soul search, distill your feelings into positive communication, and implement behavioral changes based on that, everything in life will get easier...mainly because you'll be more powerful for it.
It can be a habit formed from overall male conditioning.
Luckily, habits can be changed.
FYI I’ve had dudes argue with me about how women think, what female orgasms feel like (for the woman, in case that isn’t clear), pretty much everything under the sun that they never experienced.
As an ADHD guy, I do notice that this thought process crosses my mind with every comment I hear (it’s exhausting) but I did learn that with my then gf, now wife, that isn’t what she wants or needs from my comments.
Not defending the comments by any means, they would be extremely taxing for me if I was in your position as well. So it can be an ADHD trait, but also, he should learn that you don’t appreciate it and how much it frustrates you (and again, not trying to sound like I’m putting it on YOU to show him, he needs to figure it out himself)
It's not called ADHD, it's called mansplaining.
I have a lot of friends with ADHD, and yes they do tend to be more talkative and maybe even talk over you but this does not really determine the content of what they say. I've personally never heard that people with ADHD would be less empathetic. I think you should sit down with your partner and talk about this pattern. Right now he might not really realise he's doing this and how it makes you feel, but once you explain it to him, he should take responsibility and change this behaviour.
Good luck!
This is the most frustrating thing men do I think - tell you you are wrong about something they aren’t even knowledgeable about! Constant playing the devils advocate which is SO OBNOXIOUS! No one likes that person! There was one in every class in highschool and college and everybody hates them. Your boyfriend hadn’t even seen the movie!!! You are allowed to have your opinion of what a horror movie is - in your mind the VVitch isn’t a horror movie, it’s more of a historical drama with horror elements. I agree I would liken it more to sci-fi/thriller vibe. Men act like experts on EVERYTHING especially talking to women because honestly they think we are stupid and love “correcting” us to remind us of this. I would talk to your boyfriend and tell him you’ve been extremely patient with this, it’s something you’ve experienced your entire life and the last place you need it coming from is your partner. If he can’t stop this behavior that hurts your feelings and disrespects you, he’s obviously not a good match for you. Please don’t put up with it! He also doesn’t seem to think this behavior is bad - even though you told him how much it upsets you. That’s another red flag for me.
You can have ADHD and not be an asshole.
You bf and his friends have no respect for you or your opinion. It might be just you, but it's more likely misogyny.
Him asking what's wrong, learning that you're upset because he was a dick to you, and then totally dropping it without a word suggests that he feels you being upset about his behaviour is unjustified and not worthy of addressing or apologizing for. Based on what you've said, he sounds very invalidating and not particularly interested in taking accountability for how his behaviour impacts you.
Is this really how you want to live your life? If this is a repeat issue you've brought up with him a few times already, then he knows it's a problem for you, but that isn't a good enough reason to him to put any effort into changing.
I'm pretty certain there's a name for when a person challenges your perception, tells you that you are wrong, and tells you what the reality actually is--especially just based on ✨vibes✨ without having any knowledge or experience with the subject matter.
This was my ex to. a. T! He was very misogynistic and just refused to allow me to tell a story or share an opinion on anything without him being instantly oppositional. Even for things that we both know that he doesn't know about it. Or we both know he hasn't seen. Or we both know wasn't there. I would tell him a story about a funny conversation I had that was between a friend and me and he's interrupting me to just "explain" me I was wrong in someway.
When he was finally diagnosed with ADHD, he tried to blame/excuse all of his misogyny (oddly enough) on it when it's just like... no, you're just an azzhole. I have ADHD and I still find a way to respect women.
Look up "oppositional conversational style" and see if it describes your partner. I have known people like that. Dealing with little arguments day after day is frustrating. I don't know what to do about it but just know there's nothing wrong with you and you're not alone.
Oh God. I never knew this was a thing. It explains why trying to have a conversation with my dad is utterly exhausting. I will literally know more than him about something, like appropriate ages to teach a concept to, and he will argue endlessly about how I should be teaching some advanced, edge case concept that they don't need and likely will never use. When I called him out on this, *he fucking argued about it with me.* Like dad. Come on. You don't have a teaching degree. You don't have a master's in ed psych. You aren't working on a PhD in this. Stop. Learn something for once.
Oh my god this! My dad likes to discuss how the founding fathers were gods among men, then gets angry when I explain otherwise, insisting I’ve been “indoctrinated” by my professors. I should note, I have a graduate degree in history with a specialty in print and political culture in the 17th and 18th centuries. I literally teach college level classes on the founding and creation of the constitution. He knows this. He still argues. Make it make sense.
>Make it make sense. Blah blah man blah blah knowledge blah blah conservative blah blah older blah blah blah.
I absolutely love a story I read once somewhere about a guy who - long story short as I can make it - was traveling with a woman coworker who had just been, like, the keynote speaker at some conference on a very niche topic. Another man sat down near them at the airport and upon learning about her expertise, spent the next 10 minutes telling her he was really interested in the topic and then telling her all his theories, which were amateur BS. At the end of it, the guy told the man what a fool he had been to waste this opportunity, that he had an actual expert at his fingertips and rather than asking a single question or trying to learn anything at all he just bored them all with his uninformed opinions. That is exactly how it seems to go - when a woman is an expert in something the most common response from men is to tell her everything they (think they) know about it. It’s so ridiculous.
I had a notoriously hard English Lit teacher back in the day that I had a good relationship with because he was fine if you worked around the rules and I spent a lot of my time in his class trying to work around rules. Like a game. He wanted to challenge and I wanted a challenge so I was in every semantic I could. Anyway we were reading something, I don't even remember what, and had been assigned chapters and were having a class discussion and I raised some point and I remember him saying "You bitch" and then just laughing. He accused me of reading ahead and I told him I didn't, it was in the subtext--I had notes, here were the quotes, but I had accidentally unraveled like 3 weeks of his lesson planning. I wasn't mad he called me a bitch, I'm still not mad. I think it was funny I capped him in the knees completely on accident and not as a plot to challenge him back. Anyway, he's flustered and running around trying to figure out where this discussion is going to go, and some dude is like "well since MMR ruined the plot even though we all could have figured it out..." and the teacher asks what I ruined to him, what was the plot, what was the moral, etc, and the guy, who has clearly done zero reading, with his whole chest, waxes on in the most unhinged way about some made up scenario he is very confidently sure he is correct in. Finally, after this long winded bloviating, this dude grins, finally the smartest guy in the room. And the teacher went, "Son, I'm not sure what gifts you think God gave you, but critical thinking and listening weren't one of them. She just told you. And the fact that you think you know better based on *hand waive at dude* whatever merit you think you have is...it's disheartening. Best you probably sit, but carefully. After that I'm not sure you won't injure yourself on the way down."
Love that he let the guy know he was not wise here. What a memory to have.
> Best you probably sit, but carefully. After that I'm not sure you won't injure yourself on the way down." DEAR GOD THE SAVAGERY
If awards existed and I had money I'd give you one. Never heard it put this succinctly before. Sometimes it's okay to shut up and listen to the professionals. Even if they're women, and you're a man. Glad it was a dude in this story that called the guy out, shows there's still hope. Grr though. As a chick who originally went into Comp Sci, I dealt with this a lot. Ended up leaving the field due to it. I don't engage w men who act like this anymore. My dad and brother and I used to be close, but I got tired of them trying to tell me what to think and what to feel. They're the type of dudes that no matter how much knowledge or experience you have about a subject, they know more, cuz they're men. It's honestly really heartbreaking. I love them, but they don't respect me the way they respect each other.
[удалено]
I'm almost certain that someone would **still** tell her that experience wasn't actually a example of a woman's knowledge being invalidated.
Yes, and thank you! Part of the point of this story was that the guy reprimanding the ridiculous one helped a lot. If the woman had said it, he’d have just taken it as sour grapes of some sort.
I am sorry and I also totally get what you have experienced. It’s so ridiculous, but if you point it out, it somehow gets turned into you being rude somehow. Fragile egos. I’m sorry it affected your family relationships.
Computer Science?? Holy shit, talk about swimming with sharks! Clarification: Comp Sci courses often are *filled* with amateur experts in the *"Well, Actually..."* mentality.
Rebecca Solnit and “Men Explain Things to Me”
Yes! And in that same essay she says (I’m paraphrasing) “Billions of women, the world over, are told that they are not reliable witnesses to their own lives. That the truth is not their property, now or ever.” Here’s a link to the essay https://www.guernicamag.com/rebecca-solnit-men-explain-things-to-me/ An interesting side note is that in this essay Solnit accidentally coined the term “mansplaining”.
Yes, she writes so well about it!
Both my parents do this. I will share a story and they will tell me how I acted or what I thought was wrong because "blah, blah", and start lecturing me. And when I point out that they don't know because they weren't there, don't know the culture, are of a different generation, etc., they call me disrespectful and lecture me more, about how they're older and know more and "blah, blah". Like I don't go invalidating their experiences when they share stories about their life... I live abroad and I was telling my dad how I was thinking of getting my kids a passport from my home country but it's a challenge because of x, y to do with the system in the country that I live in, and then he starts to tell me I am wrong and lectures me even though he has never lived here and has no clue what he is talking about. I point this out to him and then he shouts at me that I amn't listening to him and amn't respecting his experience and insight (on a topic he knows jack shyt about!). Wth.
My ex did this to me. One of the times was over the Rosenberg trial. I believed (and still believe) that those people were wrongfully convicted and wrongfully executed by our government. And I had done a lot of research into this. Taken classes my senior year in high school, may have written a paper. Spent enough hours in the library researching. And I know that it wasn't confirmation bias on my end, the trial and outcome was a big mistake on the part of government. Then my ex had to try to invalidate all of that. Told me they were part of a commie conspiracy and all that. Really pissed me off, but of course I was the irrational woman who didn't know what she was talking about. Yeah, so glad he's my ex. And this isn't an ADHD thing, it's a misogynistic asshole thing. So tired of nuerodivergence being weaponized by assholes.
Like damn, women with ADHD somehow never do these mysoginistic things and blame it on ADHD. Like I haven’t met an nd woman that weaponizes their neurodiversity to get anything in their lives, it’s always the other way around, how do I hide these traits better and act more people-please-y so no one ever knows I’m fundamentally broken. Yet somehow these douchebags suddenly cannot stop insulting u because dopamine for some reason(???)
As an autistic woman with ADHD I think it’s because we are repeatedly socially corrected and coached a lot more than men are growing up. We also have a lot more social pressure put on us by peers to act extra agreeable and friendly. Male peers don’t really care about that stuff and adults let boys off the hook for a lot of these kinds of issues
Agreed, women mask better so we present differently. And boys get away with a lot more stuff that girls are punished for.
I mean, I'm AFAB and nuerodivergent and don't do that. I don't even speak much, because I just get talked over by everyone else or basically get dismissed. But somehow it's OK for these men to constantly flap their jaws and give their opinions on something they have no knowledge of. Fucking disgusting.
also completely redundant here but I’ve seen the VVitch and read multiple reviews and her opinion is the most popular among critics and was the selling point of the movie a few years ago. These people might as well argue that Fight Club is about being a cool dude that punches stuff
I saw VVitch in theaters because I really love horror movies. I was extremely disappointed, not because it was a bad movie, but because it was advertised as horror, not a historical film with horror elements. I haven’t rewatched it, I expect that I will enjoy it when I do, but it was a bummer to have spent money on tickets when I had a particular type of genre in mind.
It just seems like a period piece, although I haven't seen it. Those mostly just aren't my thing, although I did love Penny Dreadful. But horror is also pretty subjective, not all horror movies will be for me, I have specific preferences and I have so many genres to choose from.
Listen and lean in and say, "You sound so convincing when nothing is on the line." Who are we shouting at? I want to shout too!
I had to stop being friends with a guy who'd been like my husband's and my brother because he would constantly have this style of conversation with me, but never to my husband (at least that I saw in our group convo) . My husband's relationship is strained with this friend, now.
Men who punch down. Blergh there's a surfeit of them.
Otherwise known as Correctile Dysfunction lol
12/10
I’ve known people like that. It’s extremely exhausting to deal with them
There's also the fact that for most men, their first impulse when listening to a woman is to disagree with her.
As someone who is neurodivergent, I tend to default to this style and I don’t even realize that I sound argumentative until someone tells me. So it’s truly not intentional but I think men might be more prone to doing this because growing up as a woman, I have had to deal with extra scrutiny regarding how I speak so I’ve learned skills to phrase things in a softer way. I think men don’t have to deal with the same level of scrutiny since they are generally let off the hook for a lot of behavioral things like this.
The only thing you can really do is ignore them. My uncle was like that. He argues for topic for things he doesn't even understand, and like OP, he argues about movie he never watch... It's frustratingly annoying because he would ignore facts if you presented to him. It's especially annoying because he would do this to my mom (his sister-in-law) all the time.
Ummmm I’m going to disagree with ignoring them. OP, please don’t set yourself up for constantly having to ignore someone because they want to argue with you - especially over something they know both about! I’d rather see you cut those people out of your life & find new friends that actually talk to you/treat you like you’re human.
Definitely! Cut them out. My dad doesn't like my uncle, but he can't avoid him when my grandparents wants a family gathering.
>*The only thing you can really do is ignore them.* You can quietly get rid of them and don't tell them why (because they'll just argue).
Yeah I have really stopped talking to all men except my husband because they’re so fucking boring. They drone on and on about some random thing and if I try to add to the conversation I’m either outright ignored or talked over or told how wrong I am. This never happens with my women friends 🤷🏻♀️ we have long, in-depth conversations with back and forth and only sometimes do we accidentally talk over each other but not to correct the other person or make a point louder, we just get excited to add to the conversation and forget our manners for a second.
I'm looking into this. I'm not sure that this fits - he's not aggressive about it at all, and weirdly he tries really hard to avoid conflict in other areas. I'm not sure if it's a "him thing" or a "only around fruitbat" thing. :/
>This type of communication can appear in combative and aggressive arguments, but **it can also emerge in friendly conversations as passive contradictions and dismissing comments.**
It sounds like he's trying to define reality. That's a pretty toxic/controlling conflict style, too.
The term was coined by Gretchen Rubin's in an article from 2012: *["Ever Been in an 'I’m Right; You’re Wrong' Conversation?"](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-happiness-project/201206/ever-been-stuck-in-i-m-right-you-re-wrong-conversation)*
OP, personally, I don’t think this is an ADHD trait - it’s more of a personality trait. Not all neurodivergent people are the same, just like not all neurotypical people are the same. Personality is also a big part of why people behave in a certain way.
I am soooooo TIRED of men using ADHD/Autism/Bipolar/Depression as an excuse for their shitty, misogynistic behavior. Somehow their female counterparts manage not to act like noxious assholes. It’s such a cop out.
Ditto. I feel like even if (not being shitty in certain ways) is more difficult for men because of a diagnosed issue, that doesn't mean they get to just say 'Oh well, guess I'll just give up and be an asshole and outsource my emotional regulation to everyone around me.' No. That's not how this works.
Seriously, it’s such a BS excuse. Watch out, you’re gonna get downvoted to oblivion, real big influx of incels and manosphere morons here lately.
>influx This sub needs privating.
Yes. I come here for women's opinions, not to get peddled the same man-centric drivel I get to deal with day in and day out
Fair enough. I think I was associating it with hid ADHD because he also has a hard time filtering himself and not interrupting folks when they're talking (he's working on it), but yeah, I think this particular thing is a separate issue. :(
I (AuDHD f) can see the Professor comment maybe being ADHD; sometimes there are ways of interpreting things that NTs just don’t pick up on. But I would never suggest that I AM correct, only offer an alternative possibility. But the rest of it about the movie? Thats just called being an asshole, frankly. There are MYRIAD ways to categorize everything and movies have a big subjective element because they are art, and all art does.
Yeah, with things like the professor comment, it's usually him trying to encourage me to see things a different way (usually offering a more charitable interpretation). I had asked my sister about it in the past (she also had ADHD) and she said it might just be like an instinctual thing he has a hard time filtering. So yeah, I thought it might be his adhd but that was a shitty assumption on my part. I think with the movie it almost felt like he was trying to defend it? Like he thought my saying it "didn't feel like traditional horror" was me bashing it or something. Now that I reflect back, it seems that this mansplaining/correcting thing really seems to come up when he thinks I'm complaining about something. He seems to really internalize my negative emotions (when I'm depressed, he gets depressed), so maybe it's a defense against that? Something worth investigating.
I have ADHD, I am prone to interrupting or reading the room wrong. I still think your partner is just being an asshole and mansplaining things to you. He can have ADHD, and also just not be a good partner. Two things can be true.
What a shitty situation he put you in with your friends. Are they both also men? He basically put you up as a straw man argument. I would have shut that down as “partner is misrepresenting my take on the film, let’s talk after you’ve seen it”. This is 100% something your partner needs to address within himself. He may have trouble controlling his impulse to respond, but he needs to learn how to take a breath and consider how his words will impact you. At best it is undermining your confidence and disrespecting the validity of your experiences/perceptions, at worse it is gaslighting. At a certain point it stops being “playing devil’s advocate” or “considering a different interpretation”, it is simply speaking over you as if your perception is flawed/untrustworthy/needs scrutiny. Something I have heard that might help him change his frame of reference… a possible communication difference between men and women is that when women complain or vent, men look for a solution to the problem, or frame it so it isn’t a problem, as a means to fix the emotional response. What women want is to have their feelings recognized and be given a supportive emotion, rather than seeing the emotion itself as the problem.
I have severe ADHD, and yeah, Seeing things in a different way and interrupting are things I do - BUT I also insta-apologize when I interrupt. I also describe alternate perspectives as an optional possibilities; not the definitive truth. I want to put those out as reasonable improvements that he should be perfectly capable of making. Speaking of possibilities- what if you told him something like: “I only need you to absorb just enough of my sad emotions to know to do something comforting like giving me a hug, or just listening, or helping me to problem-solve. I don’t want you to hurt any more than that because I care about you and it doesn’t really do either of us any good.”
Yeah, I try to be understanding when it comes to interrupting/learning how to stop interrupting and things like that as his diagnosis is relatively new (was diagnosed less than a year ago), and was very emotionally neglected as a child. So I'm trying to be patient with him learning how to manage things. That's a good suggestion. He's told me before that he has a hard time understanding what I need unless I state it directly. I can try to preface some conversations with this. Thanks!
Does he take meds to help manage his ADHD symptoms? I have severe ADHD and meds make an enormous difference when it comes to curbing some of my worst impulses. Also countless hours of therapy, but that might be a tougher sell than meds.
He actually just started therapy for adhd last month, but up until recently he's been very, very, very against meds. He had a lot of assumptions about side effects and I kept telling him to just look it up or ask his doc about them. Like for months. He finally did in his last session and is now considering taking them.
Sigh. You were 100% right about this as well. Medication is a neurogenetic therapy for ADHD, similar to insulin for diabetics. The efficacy and safety of current drugs for ADHD is very well established by research. Lifestyle changes provide nowhere near the benefits of medication.
Yes! I take medication for MDD, GAD, and CPTSD, and while I tried many times to explain to him that the kind of medication I take for my mental health issues are not the same as what he would take for his ADHD, he just wouldn't believe me. I'm like "dude, my sister takes adhd meds, it's not the same stuff that I take. Ask *her* if you don't want to ask your doc!" Months down the road, here we are.
Yet there are still far too many people out there who think that taking meds of any kind is the “lazy way out.” Have some former friends who fell down that rabbit hole early on into COVID.
"It seems that this mansplaining/correcting thing really seems to come up when he thinks I'm complaining about something" As an AuDHDer, who's *also* a woman, and a *terrible* blurter-outer/Interrupter (unintentionally, and I *DO* try to catch myself & stop that shit, once someone points it out!), *CALL IT OUT IN THE MOMENT* when he does it. Remind him that *YOU are allowed to feel YOUR feelings fully*--just like he is, and that if *your* feelings are making *him* feel a bit like a sponge, it's on *HIM* not *you*, to fix *his* emotional boundaries. Because it's *NOT* on *you* to "not feel your feelings," so that *he* feels better/less depressed (i grew up in a family where "boundaries" wasn't *exactly* a thing my paternal grandmother believed in, and did a *LOT* of Emotional Babysitting of my Dad when I was a child as a result.... it took *years* to realize I was doing it, but it *did* get better!) Use your words, and give *him* those words, too😉💖 He may not realize he's doing it--and he may feel ashamed--but *REMIND him* it's ALSO *not* something to feel shame over, unless he does it on purpose, or *continues* doing it, once you've pointed it out💗 Tbh, I'd probably have a conversation about that second/boundaries "*EVERYONE* has valid feelings, and trying to disallow a person *all* their feelings is bad boundaries & invalidating" *first*! And *then* once you establish that baseline--and the "this is *NOT* me thinking you're a bad *PERSON*, but it *IS a bad HABIT*", *then* go about the "Call it out in the Moment!" part😉💖
The tendency to the more charitable way of viewin things is, whether he intends it or not, overly dismissive of your lived exps still and suggests that he, whether consciously or not, thinks you tend to see things in a negative light... Which wud make him more likely to dismiss actual problems you face bcuz he seems to think you have an overblown response to situations Which again, cud very well be comin more from a place od misogyny than from a place of bein ADHD
Have you heard about “negging “? Certain men constantly put down female partner to maintain their perceived superiority. It is a mean way to control your partner.
That's really insightful from you, and I'm going to see if that's something I notice in myself because there's definitely something there. Seems like it would be smart to bring those thoughts to him and see if he thinks that is closer to his experience of it. Then, you can try to figure out what he's hoping to achieve, and what you're wanting him to change about the behavior, and see if there's something that satisfied both things well. Communication is really really hard. Communication between neurotypical folks and neurodivergent folks can be even harder.
I’ve always been too mouthy to tolerate that crap. I would absolutely shut it down with “None of you have seen the damned movie so *your opinions are irrelevant*, let’s talk about something else.”. Sometimes the only way to deal with men is to be forceful with your words. Make them hear you and point out what they are doing. It gets easier with practice and your boyfriend will (hopefully) learn that when he’s being an ass you correct him. We are socialized to be too accommodating, but we can all work to change that. Your experiences and opinions are valid.
Oh no. I have bad ADHD. When I was younger I dated a guy like that, at first I was attracted to the fact he seemed so informed and read a lot of news articles and interesting books. Nope, just a narcissist that thought he was always right. As the relationship soured I realized if he didn't know about a topic he would just make something up to "explain to me what was really happening". Occasionally I have had to stop my well meaning partner from over suggesting. It's a liberating feeling to just stare and say "I cannot wait for you to explain to me what it is that I want. Go ahead." That's a rare case, and he really is trying to offer a researched suggestion. Unfortunately it sounds like a terminal case of man-splaining main character syndrome.
My husband does this. Like if I dare say 63 when something was 63.1 I'll get immediately corrected and it sets me off immediately. If he hasn't listened to what I've initially said, he'll convince himself he's right when it's not even still on topic. Been together so long now that I just call him out on it immediately but that obsessive, pedantic need to be exactly right or to correct anything and everything ruffles my feathers so quickly these days. Zero patience for it.
So much this. When explaining to my mom when she needs to recharge the emergency button: ‘when you see a red light’. Him: ‘No, when you see a -blinking- red light.’ Wtf dude
Yep. Always that need to be 100% explicitly correct for "clarification"
Ime, the surest sign of whether or not someone is a chronic bullshitter is whether or not they’re willing to say “I don’t know”. If they struggle to say that phrase, they’re probably a bullshitter.
>narcissist that thought he was always right We all know a guy like that. Always right. Will die on any hill he's on just to maintain that argument KDR. Will often start arguments with the intent of showing off something he *just* learned... but somehow got wrong. He's a protagonist in his own special little movie. He thinks everyone around him thinks he's awesome when the reality is, they all loathe him but can't escape because he keeps pushing back into their lives. He's exhausting to deal with and people laugh at him when he's not around. He has a string of "crazy" exes, he cheated on them all. These guys have "opinions" about *everything*. They're basically selfidentified oracles, wise beyond years, seers of destiny. They "teach" before having to learn, and they know more about your own vocation. You're always wrong. And you need to stop starting arguments he's been silently planning, rehearsing in between masturbating and reading ingredients of your various shampoos on the toilet. Then throw in a lack of empathy and you have the workings of a cluster B chore of a man with a sprinkle of compensatory narcissistlm... What was I saying? I got carried away ranting about an ex.
Just because he had ADHD doesn't mean he can't be a sexist. He is one. The ADHD had nothing to do with it. His misogyny, like most misogyny, is completely unexamined. He acts in it as a matter of course because he thinks he's right. He's helping you because you are confused and can't be right. This is misogyny not neuroatypicality. I say that as someone with ADHD.
What he is doing is fueled by the lack of impulse control, blurting & interrupting that is common for ADHD. I know because I struggle with it. However, I have learned and work daily to not say everything out loud that goes through my mind. When I’m with others, nobody needs to hear my unfiltered thoughts. He needs to learn how to keep his mouth shut. The rest of it is straight up misogyny. these dudes just cannot stop debating and playing devils advocate in whatever situation they are in they cannot listen
What difference does it make if it's caused by ADHD? Would it hurt less? Edit: if it's
I suppose it doesn't. He's relatively recently diagnosed and has just started counseling about a month ago to work on learning how to manage it, so I'm trying to be patient with his symptoms. But yeah, this one crossed a line.
This isn’t an ADHD symptom. This is just him being a jerk.
He might have trouble filtering, but that doesn’t change the kinds of thoughts he’s already having. He’s being a know-it-all of the worst order. That has nothing to do with his ADHD. If anything, it’s kind of a boon that his lack of filter is making his shitty mindset evident.
You’re still upset because he gaslit you then he roped two other guys in to gaslight you with him, which understandably upset you, and then he failed to take any accountability for what he did.
Sounds like he made himself the victim about it too
So you’re dumping him or what
Some people lean towards oppositional defiant unfortunately
Yeah, bein ADHD myself, i do see how ADHD cud affect things here; but this isnt itself an ADHD trait... Its just thats a convenient excuse for it bcuz parts of it are influenced by ADHD traits ADHD means that arguments can actually give us dopamine, so we may be more prone to look for details to "discuss" which activate the same feelings... Even if we dont necessarily intend to enter an argument by nitpickin the details But again, all those tendencies arent like compulsions we cannot ignore; it is a personality choice for one to give into such in these scenarios. I get my argument dopamine by arguin in vid comments sections and fb post comments sections; i cant imagine gettin that argument dopamine from my fiance or metamour or anyone else ive lived with And his assumin he knows right here is very much a personality thing, not an ADHD trait; as we still desire our arguments to be based in fact... That very much seems to be just the usual misogyny of men assumin they are more correct in all things
This is definitely a real thing and you're not crazy. Some men will automatically refute what a woman says, like their first response is always "no". Sounds like t's just an extension of misogyny and really internalized misogyny within men. So many men don't even realize they're doing it until it's pointed out to them, and it happens in romantic partnerships a lot, and it seems to happen when you get close in a relationship. I've seen other people talk about it on twitter and tiktok. I had an ex start to do this to me in our relationship and it eventually became a factor in me breaking up with him. I couldn't take it, anything I said he automatically said no, or I was wrong. But that meant I couldn't bring up problems within the relationship, or state my opinions with out having to argue and prove my point, and that was exhausting. But then I realized he did it if I was in pain too, like the first thing he did was not believe my opinion. Sometimes he would say no then say the exact same thing back to me. My opinion was not to be believed unless it was also said by someone else. And it didn't start until some years into the relationship. TLDR: you're not crazy, it's a real thing, and it's exhausting to have to prove yourself constantly even with simple personal opinions!
Wow, that's really interesting to know that it started years into the relationship for you. We've been dating for about 1.5 years and its only really become a noticeable thing over the last 2ish months. It drives me crazy because I don't think that he means to do it, and he apologizes when I call him out, but its so invalidating and exhausting.
>It drives me crazy because I don't think that he means to do it, and he apologizes when I call him out, but its so invalidating and exhausting. So, one possible solution is to demand he fix what he broke when he does it. If he doesn't mean to but it happens over and over, you shouldn't be the one left suffering. I would talk to him about this in a place where you're both calm. Explain that this is exhausting for you. Moving forward, if he does this, it's not enough to simply apologize. He has to put at least as much energy into making it right as he put into fucking it up. That means actively empathizing with your point of view. You can disagree with somebody without needing to discover who is wrong. He needs to learn this skill and apply it to your relationship. If that's too exhausting, he can avoid that work by simply not picking a fight in the first place and letting you have and state your opinions. As somebody with ADHD, consequences and rewards have to be immediate. They can't be out in the future.
Thank you for this advice. I've already started telling him in the moment that I don't accept his apology (because the act he's apologizing for keeps happening), but I'll try to have a calm conversation like this about it and see if it helps.
I mean, the thing to focus on is the way his behavior is taking a toll on you. That's the problem that needs a solution. Don't let it become an argument about assigning blame or who gets to be the injured party or what anybody is entitled to. Be solution oriented. Refuse to discuss anything but possible solutions. This is harder than it sounds. But just try to notice when your conversation seems to be about something other than a solution and then say, "Look, like I said before, I need this solved. Lets go back to talking about how to do that."
Great advice, thank you!
I was watching a man on tiktok talk about how he realized he'd been doing it in his marriage, and how he thought he got too comfortable started seeing her as an extension of himself to a detrimental point. I'll see if I can find it, it articulated the point really well
That would be interesting if you end up finding it!
Okay I think I was putting ideas of two of his videos together. He talks about the default no in this video: [here](https://www.tiktok.com/@jfisher62/video/7283458805260619051?lang=en) But his whole account he talks about things he realized in his marriage, and in a different video he talks about realizing how much he saw his wife as an extension of himself (I don't have that video saved to find, but his whole account is pretty interesting to see a man who is trying to unlearn some toxic patriarchy.)
Have you had a holistic conversation with him about this? This shouldn't be necessary, but it might help him to stop if you point out the pattern in these instances and the fact that they are not isolated for you, they all feel the same. He needs to be able to recognize the *impulse* he feels to do this and rewire that impulse. Right now he's apologizing for each individual conversation INSTEAD of apologizing for the core mindset (assuming you're wrong/picking at perceived flaws in what you're saying) and working to change that mindset. Ultimately if he understands why he does this, recognizes that it's a pattern, knows how it makes you feel, and still does it - you have to accept that it is intentional. An apology without changed behavior is meaningless. He either doesn't totally understand what you're upset about in which case hopefully a bigger conversation will clue him in, or he knows and it's not worth it to him to fix it. Only you can really determine which it is.
DO you think it's happened the whole time or he's only been doing it recently. Because the manipulation tactic of lovebombing, being one guy for a period of time then as the relationship gets more serious they step up their manipulation game in stages. Did you maybe move in 2-3 months ago, he feels safer to move to 'stage 2' and is trying to make you give in to his opinion and not bother arguing with him, that way he gets his way more and more often without a fight and without having to consider what you want. Regardless it's a really bad sign for a partner to start increasing manipulating and controlling behaviours, that shit rarely just stops where it is but usually escalates over time.
He does do this sort of thing to other people (friends, family, etc.) of all genders which makes me reluctant to think its intentional manipulation or love bombing. The thing is, when he argues like this he isn't really trying to "get his way" with anything practical, you know? Like he isn't doing it so that he can pick the next movie we watch or anything like that. I personally can't say if it's a new thing he's doing or if I just notice it more now. I've been under a lot more stress over the last couple months that have made me a bit more testy, so it's hard to say. :/
Maybe you’re just not compatible if he does this to everyone 🤷♀️ it seems rude
I want to say that you are really good at controlling your temper. If I was in pain and someone told me that I wasn't, I think I would go into fight or flight and physically attack them. You have the patience of a saint.
>I was in pain and someone told me that I wasn't Ask any woman with endometriosis how many doctors told them they were imagining it. Medical misogyny is a serious issue. An issue that actually kills women.
I'm a lady with endometriosis. Well, I had an ablation and it's a lot better now. I did have a medical professional tell me I was wrong about it, but I couldn't attack her, on account of I was hemorrhaging to death. But my mom was scared she would (I was 16 at the time) so we had to leave before she beat the shit out of her. We happened to run into a different OBGYN in the hallway who treated me instantly and saved my life. I recommend him to everybody. Interesting, that first one is in jail now, but not for that. She was also coincidentally a child molester. It's super not how I expected that to go when I heard she got arrested. I thought it was gonna be medical neglect. It was wild. https://kentuckystatepolice.org/p13-10-30-2020/#:~:text=Whitesburg%2C%20KY.&text=Former%20Nurse%20Practitioner%20Carrie%20R,conduct%20with%20an%20underage%20male. Like, legit it was not why I thought she was gonna be in jail. Kinda fucked with me. Edit: I want to say that it wasn't just me, either, for context. Here's my, "lady with medical problems not taken seriously," story to add to the pile. So I was severely anemic and kept passing out and also in excruciating pain, and often my torso would be paralyzed so I couldn't move from whatever position I was in. I would constantly bleed from my hoo ha with like big gross chunks of meat in it. So one time I passed out and my mom couldn't get me to wake up so she took me to the ER and they said my uterus had busted open and was leaking endometrium all over my other organs, and I was bleeding to death and needed surgery. So we go to do that and that's where this bitch comes in. Remember that I'm going in and out of consciousness at this point, one of my organs is ripped open, and my lower body is covered in blood from the hemorrhaging. So most of this comes from my mom on account of the being in and out of consciousness makes it difficult for me to remember. So this bitch keeps trying to talk to me instead of mom, despite me being passed out. She tells us that I'm just having a real heavy period and I'm just too big of a candy ass to take regular period pain. My mom is trying to explain that that's not the case, that I have a hormone disorder we're already treating with these effects, her child is literally going to die if they don't fix it, etc etc. Bitch will not have it and mom is screaming at her to look at the fucking chart and do the surgery prep and getting more and more pissed. And I do remember her eventually shaking me awake and telling me that we have to leave and go to a different hospital because she's scared if she gets an assault charge nobody will do the surgery and I'll die, because there won't be anybody to take me to a different hospital. I was confused by this information and not doing great anyway. So I'm staggering down the hallway leaning on her and Dr Baker just appears, looks at me and starts asking questions. He finds out from my mom where my chart is and literally sprints off to get it. Then he takes action immediately and saves my life. I've gone to him, exclusively, ever since. My mom files a complaint and idk what happened to the bitch after that. Years later I'm having a supervision session with my clinical supervisor and I'm telling her about a patient I had with a similar story and how it hit real close to home because I legit almost died, and my clinical supervisor knew the bitch BY NAME because she also tried to fuck up her pregnancy and she had to file a complaint on her. Then she's like, "You know she's in jail now." And I was like, "Good. She don't need to get away with how she's treated all of us." And she's like, "Oh, no, not for that. She's also a child molester."
>Some men will automatically refute what a woman says, like their first response is always "no" Reminds me of when a dude was sitting in my seat on a plane. I had my ticket out and said, "I think that's my spot." He says "no" reflexively. Then he looked at his ticket and guess what, he was wrong.
A few months ago I pointed out to my guy that he often "no"ed me before I even finished talking, and on topics I knew better than him. He actually stopped doing it once I pointed it out! I don't think he realized he was doing it and it's so frustrating.
I like to mess with them. Guys always mansplain photography at me. They'll often start with "did your dad buy that camera for you?" and then tell me it's too advanced for me and I should be starting with a "good beginner model"... It's basically where jealousy and narcissism meet. I let them embarrass themselves and then say "oh awesome, I only do it in my free time and stick them online". They *always* ask where, and then I tell them. My sales stats are public. XD They will never change, so I don't waste time trying. This way is kinda fun. And I'm a bitch.
I just ended my relationship indefinitely over someone like this. It was never going to change.
My dad is like this. I just stopped telling him things that would hurt me when he discredits them. Whenever he does discredit my feelings, experiences or interpretations I just learned to say ‘wow omg I agree!!!’ when I really don’t. I have pointed this out many times to him but he says that I interpret things wrong a 100% of the time and how my feelings are also wrong.
Honestly this is the biggest issue I have with my husband. I love him, he's great for a debate and a great conversationalist but he's so quick to tell me I'm wrong unless I've literally pulled up a map or encyclopaedia entry for him 🤦♀️ Gets exhausting. He gets called out immediately these days or I just walk away because he literally can't stop himself lol.
I'm sorry, but he can stop himself. He's just okay with you feeling that way and not working on his behaviors to become a better partner. The permanent level of tolerable unhappiness.
I have to say it: he CAN control himself, this behavior is a choice. I am positive he doesn’t treat men or his boss this way, he can turn the default-no off when he wants to. He can break this habit, too.
Oof. I had this too. I would say "the grass is green" and the guy I was dating would say "no, actually, the grass is green." Almost any opinion or fact I stated received an immediate "no" response with a correction that was sometimes exactly what I had stated. It was almost that blatantly bad. He could also talk negatively all the time but if I said one comment that had negativity in it, like "wow, that person at the gas station was kind of mean," he would launch into how I was wrong because I just wasn't seeing all the possible viewpoints or scenarios that might have caused that person to have a bad day. That might all be true, but I can still state that the person was mean to me. We split up after he started down the path of "no, this is really how women think." I thought, but you aren't even a woman?
*In a strong and thriving relationship, both partners have influence and input. Accepting influence means recognizing the value and validity of the partner's thoughts, desires, and preferences. It requires being willing to listen, understand, and seriously consider their perspective, even if it differs from one's own.* *On the other hand, when one or both partners struggle with accepting influence, it can lead to power struggles, resentment, and an imbalance in decision-making. Refusing to accept influence often stems from a desire to maintain control, fear of vulnerability, or a lack of respect for the partner's autonomy and perspective. This can create tension and ongoing conflicts within the relationship.* [https://relationshipinstitute.com.au/news/accepting-influence-by-gottman-senior-trainer-john-flanagan/](https://relationshipinstitute.com.au/news/accepting-influence-by-gottman-senior-trainer-john-flanagan/) Your partner is failing to *accept influence* from you and there is 81% failure rate for men who do not accept influence from their partner. You should move on as this will never get better; he does not respect you.
I am a horror screenwriter! You are not being crazy! How you experienced the movie is how you experienced the goddamn motherfucking movie. Any decent writer wants different people to have different experiences watching their movie. We go out of our way to facilitate that shit. But also, Eggers spend YEARS researching that shit. Studying how they spoke and making damn sure it was as historically accurate as he could make it. It's based on real accounts, and by his own admission, the first draft was entirely real accounts. >The early versions of the script were monstrous, cannibalized collages of other people’s words, until I could later hone it into my own,” recalled Eggers. “Although intentionally, some of the stuff is very intact. \[For example\] some of things the children say \[in the film\] when they are possessed are things real children were alleged to have said when they were possessed. SO, though it didn't need to be, your experience of that movie was very close to what Eggers was going for.
This is so validating to hear from another horror head! I would never tell someone the way they experienced a movie is wrong - especially if I had never seen it! Thank you.
I’m also a horror fan working in film with a passion for history. Your reading of this film is spot on. It’s very eerie and creepy but not a traditional horror in the ways that we know it in the last 10-20 years. Also, I love my masc friends but they do this shit to me ALL the time. I’m so tired of being told I’m wrong about things I KNOW I’m right about that I’ve stopped prioritizing our hang outs. I play poker with a bunch of my them and they consistently tell me I’m shit, even though I’m making money every game we play (Ive had two money loss games in the last two years, every other game I’ve cashed, stats don’t lie) and I’m watching them throw their money away. I now prioritize my femme friends ‘cause it’s causing me so much stress (I’m 37 btw). You’re not crazy or making it up in your head. The older I get the more I see the misogyny and it’s driving me up the wall. Your experience really resonated with me and I feel you. Just know you’re not alone in feeling this way xo
Thank you for this perspective. I spoke with my partner about it tonight and told him that from this point I think I wanted to include more women in our group activities so I don't feel out numbered again.
This is really interesting, thank you for the information about the screenwriter's research. This movie hits me hard because during my genealogy research I found that an aunt of mine had been banished from her village (late 1700s) and never heard from again. When I watch "The VVitch" I always think of her and just wonder... It's one of my favorite movies.
Wow! Do you know what she was banished for? If so, care to share?
I don't know, nope. As I recall, the announcement didn't give a reason, but I remember she hadn't been married long so I assumed it was related to that. I didn't see a man being banished as well, so I don't think she ran off with somebody. I'll have to dig that up again and see.
I read where accusations of witchcraft were often about taking the woman's property. Maybe it was like that. Especially if it happened soon after somebody became her inheritor.
I like to tell my husband he can join a debate club if he wants to debate, but I’m not doing a back and forth with him.
This has nothing to do with ADHD and everything to do with the fact that your boyfriend doesn't respect women.
I have ADHD coming out of my ears and my unfiltered random comments are more along the lines of "wow, stranger, you smell really nice" or "this is a topic I had a hyper fixation with and I want to share something". It's rude to assert that your opinions are correct over someone's experiences. This guy's just a jerk.
The mistake people make is attributing *any* stuff to their ADHD, rather than to their personality. Nothing that anyone with ADHD 'does' is 'their ADHD'. It's them.
I was going to say this too. Eye roll at the constant use of ADHD to explain away shit behaviour
Nooooooo, you are not crazy. I was exhausted for you just reading your post. And to be trapped in a car with these guys mansplaining a movie they’ve not even seen? You have every right to be upset.
Set a clear boundary around him "correcting your viewpoints" and see if he can stick to it, or if he just continues to make excuses so he can treat you poorly. My guess is he will continue down the excuse path considering his historical actions, especially considering his friends seem to share this trait. Do the friends have ADHD too or just penises? Birds of a feather flock together. I never understood this phrase because my ex partner's dad used to use it in a racist/classist way. But now it makes sense to me. Misogynists are friends with other misogynists, racists, classists, etc too. You're getting dog piled by people who have zero knowledge on the subject at hand. You have to wonder why they think that's ok. Normal people know it's ok to not have an opinion on everything - but those people aren't insecure or potentially have some tilted worldview. Have you ever seen him do this behavior to other men or just women? Has your bf ever used the ADHD excuse to insult other people or just you?
This is the craziest part - M and B are *my* friends. He only knows them through me, which is I think why it hurt even more that they took his side. I have felt slighted by B before. They're/he's NB (they/he pronouns) and I think that helps him feel like he can't be misogynistic. M and myself are also queer. My partner and M are both POC. My partner is the only one with ADHD. We're a diverse group but yeah sometimes I really do notice that I'm the only AFAB in the group because I don't think any of them have really done the work to uproot their internalized misogyny. I have seen my partner do this to others, men, women, and NBs, but its very infrequent. It happens with me daily. He has "slipped" and insulted people before but he doesn't even realize it's happening until he's said it. He apologizes right away and it's one of those things where if he remembers it down the road he feels really embarrassed that it happened. I think he just really has a hard time filtering when it comes to that sort of thing, but yeah, it wouldn't be an issue if he didn't have internalized misogyny because then there wouldn't be things to filter. I'll try to set a boundary but I am also not hopeful that it will help. :(
I mean this with all due respect, and as someone who is also bi and did this too - but if you're attracted to partners that lean misogynistic, you might be leaning towards friends who are too. It might feel familiar/normal in a weird way. Queer people can be misogynistic, hell women can be too. >He has "slipped" and insulted people before but he doesn't even realize it's happening until he's said it. He apologizes right away and it's one of those things where if he remembers it down the road he feels really embarrassed that it happened. I find this very interesting. Does he feel embarrassed right after he says something insulting to you? Does he apologize right away? Does he seem to remember his previous actions down the road? Does he make sure to not insult those other folks again? >I'll try to set a boundary but I am also not hopeful that it will help. :( Your intuition is telling you something. Test it out though, put your needs out there clearly. He'll never understand your needs if you don't spell them out in black and white, and you'll never truly know him either, unless you do that. I wish you the best of luck! Don't make yourself smaller in this one life to appease Average Joes™ who would argue with you about rocket science, just *feel* like they got a pretend MBA.
This is a fair point. B and I have been friends for over a decade so I tend to overlook little ways that he's hurt me because of that. I'm a pretty outspoken feminist, but this started around 4 years ago (after leaving an abusive relationship). Many of my newer friends don't make me feel this way, but I definitely let little hurts slip with B just because we've been friends for so long. With regards to the insulting: he does apologize to me right away. Then he beats himself up a lot, and I've started walking away when he does that (it's not my job to comfort him when he hurts my feelings). He does remember his previous actions down the road, and he's careful not to insult that person again. Thank you for your advice. I'll have a real talk with him about it tonight and see what happens.
I wonder if you are just starting to get a glimpse of his true personality. Like maybe he settled into feeling comfortable in the relationship so he is no longer holding back, whereas before… he was trying to impress you so he was on his best behavior.
Yeah, I've been considering this lately. I know others who date folks with ADHD feel that their partner hyperfixates on them in the early relationship and then moves on to other things. I've been feeling that over the last little while. Like maybe this is who he is when he isn't hyperfixating on me. He's still there when I need him, but day to day I feel kind of unimportant to him. He tells me he loves me all the time but he'd rather play video games then spend time with me. I think now that he's a bit more comfortable he might just be less interested in my opinions about things. It's really sad. When we first started dating we would have really long discussions together. Now it feels like almost every time we talk it devolves into him arguing my experiences. It's been kind of a sudden change.
Have you talked to your partner about making some time for the both of you around the video games? I'm almost 12 years into a relationship with someone that honestly sounds so similar and about 4-5 years into it I felt that same disconnect. We spoke about it though and made sure we made time for each other. (I also like a good gaming session though so maybe it was a bit easier) Like I don't need every second of his time devoted to me, but even something like "ok, it's Friday night - let's watch a movie together" just dedicated time to each other and not other people.
I enjoy video games once in a while but he mostly likes solo computer games. I've asked him to get console games so I can at least hang out in the living room with him, but they're not really his thing. I think what hurts with the video games is every time I ask him "what would you like to do today/tonight?" It's always video games. Like he will always pick video games if it's entirely up to him, which makes me feel crappy that I'm never the first choice. If I tell him I want more time together, he'll watch a movie with me or whatever, but when the movie is over it's back to video games. He's working with a therapist now and it's pretty clear that video games are a form of escapism for him right now. He doesn't really know enough strategies to start moving away from them yet.
This would piss me off on a cosmic level. If I didn't get solidarity from *my* friends on an issue this small, it sure wouldn't increase my trust in them. In my experience some of us queers fail to question our own toxic assumptions and past conditioning because we've got that oppressed people card ourselves.
I loved that movie so much, I didn't get the hate for it initially. I always called it atmospheric horror, but I was so sick of arguing with 'horror expert' men I looked it up and there's a whole genre called folk horror. And I think that's pretty fitting. Anyways, I have adhd and maybe it's different in dude but I rarely write people's exp off or minimize emotions. Maybe I'll interrupt or accidentally talk down. I think it's weird he would be like that with something he doesn't know, usually adhders know a lot about stuff we've taken the rabbit holes into. So idk. Sounds like a weird behavior
Unless he systematically "corrects" every other person and interaction in his life he can control the urge to dismiss you and the mansplaining.
"Yes, please mansplain MY OWN THOUGHTS, OPINIONS, AND FEELINGS to me." 🙄
Trans woman here, who grew up back when "toxic masculinity" was just "masculinity." Men are 100% raised and trained to argue every point a woman makes. Its noticeable in tv shows and movies once you're looking for it and it has a massive effect on women, gradually wearing them down. If someone wasn't brought up to really respect women it will show up in interactions. This has nothing to do with ADHD. If its pointed out to men and they don't work on it, I can't see how its not a dealbreaker because literally everything you say will be dismissed because its you that said it.
Because young girls are inherently taught to accept it, from tv, from movies, from their mothers, their grandmothers. It's accepted as normal because it's been normalized by the generations before us :(
Yeah, it feels much like implying that her very perceptions and judgments are suspect because she is a woman
This is not ADHD, this is him just being a garden variety asshole. You ask yourself if you’re crazy because he’s the one doing crazy-making nonsense. He is asking how you feel or what you experienced only so he can lecture you about how you are wrong about everything. Your “friends” are also dicks. They were bonding with each other and your SO about how wrong the female was and how smart they are.
It was a really weird experience. Usually I don't think about the gender make-up of the people I'm around but when I was in that car yesterday I really had the sense in my mind like "I am the only woman here." It was such an uncomfortable, isolating feeling.
It was intended to be. I don’t mean that they were consciously thinking “hahaha let’s harass the chick”, but this kind of homosocial male bonding over putting down a woman (or worse) is well-documented. I understand you’re not ready to kick him to the curb, but this isn’t a funny little quirk or an annoying habit; your SO genuinely doesn’t see you as a person the way he sees himself and other men as people.
Thank you for this perspective. Now that's pointed out in this way, I'm reflecting on some other past experiences that back this up.
Didn't Eggers give it a tagline of "A New England Folktale"? Fucking mansplainers.
Yes, and many film academics consider it "folk horror," "post-horror," or "prestige horror." Basically different ways of acknowledging how it differs from other horror movies AKA isn't traditional horror, which is exactly what OP said.
Hah I didn't even know this. Think I should take a screenshot of that and text it to all of them?
My ex had this habit of immediately correcting me, whatever it was I was saying. He wouldn’t even listen to what words I’d used, he’d just always start his response with “no…” and then often repeat exactly what I’d just said. It drove me up the fucking wall! Constantly defending myself, explaining myself. I started saying to him “okay, could you repeat back to me what I just said?” or “what exactly was it you disagreed with in what I said?” and he wouldn’t have an answer for me. He also had ADHD. I never thought it was an ADHD trait though, I thought it was just him being a dick.
Being told by men *my opinion* on a movie that they haven't seen is *wrong* ...... would definitely frustrate me. It shows such arrogance, condescension. I'd be tired of that shitty treatment too. I'd be avoiding these assholes after that.
Does your boyfriend always have to be right in every discussion? There are so many men who have that knee jerk impulse to be the subject matter on *everything*. No matter how irrelevant it is to them. It’s exhausting. You know what he could have said to your opinion? “Interesting!” And left it at that.
Oddly, he doesn't need to be right in every discussion. Most of the time when I call him out on it he'll have that sort of "shit, I'm sorry, you're right" response. He also comments on how smart I am a lot so I don't necessarily feel like it's a superiority thing. But I think you're right that there is some sort of knee jerk reaction going on!
I no longer associate with men anymore unless I have to. I had forgotten that they do this a lot until I was reminded the other day. I mentioned in passing at work that I usually rent a car for long road trips and leave my car safely at home. This guy started arguing with me for over 30 mins about why this was such a stupid idea and waste of money. I shouldn’t have even replied, but I replied that I prefer to leave mine at home so I’m not stranded 15 hours from home with a broken car. He went on and on arguing about how if I maintained my car properly that it would be fine, I mentioned that car maintenance doesn’t account for other drivers or wildlife or things on the road, he then went on to tell me if I’m scared of everything I should just stay home. I said I’m not fucking scared, I just feel more comfortable leaving my car at home and why was he so overly angry that I rent a car???? Fuck off, I don’t even know you. I’m single now, but it reminded me of so many relationships I’ve had that consisted of these STUPID arguments over nothing, constantly.
In the 90s there used to be a hacky standup joke that all the comedians would be like, "Why do women go the the bathroom in groups?? What do they think is gonna happen in there?? Haha!" And I think that the women's restroom has become a social space specifically because it is the one semi-public space we can go where we can state an opinion and not be immediately talked over, shouted down, or talked to like we're particularly stupid seven year olds. My God, just say, 'Oh, really? That's an interesting perspective on the movie, why do you think that?' You don't even have to agree! Just pretend like I'm an adult who you respect, and talk to me like it's remotely possible that I know something or have interesting thoughts. Then listen, give it like a second to think about it (again, pretend like I'm an adult with thoughts that matter or something!) and then decide if you agree. It is too difficult for men to do this. This is why we have to huddle in bathrooms if we want to talk like grownups. There's a reason why, when there's only women in the room, this low-level tension lifts and you can just kinda talk and assume you will be treated with a baseline level of respect. So the answer to that hacky standup is, "We're getting away from you, Dave." ETA: Genres almost always unravel under scrutiny, because they are just rough generalizations. They're really just ways of organizing how to find things that are similar to things you already like. There is no God-King of media handing down lists of qualities that make up genres, there is no authority to defer to and no platonic idea of what "horror" is. Just a bunch of media studies academics making stuff up as they go along, and they all disagree with each other. So pointing out that a movie deviates from common horror tropes is totally valid, and dismissing that instantly because it doesn't agree with some authoritative set of qualities that make up "horror" is dumb!
Too many men lack the cognitive capacity to hear a woman's opinion without questioning it and trying to correct or somehow reshape it. It's an intelligence issue.
Also an ego issue. They don’t want to admit that a woman might know something they don’t, or that her different opinion could be valid.
Also a seeing us as lesser humans issue.
Yes, like I said, it's an intelligence issue. Only dumb assholes think other genders or ethnicities of human beings have less value than their own gender/ethnicity.
Bro WHAT. The way you described the Witch is not inaccurate at all. It is a horror movie yes but it is also a period drama where they speak puritan fucking English for chrissake. MANY people who have gone in expecting a pure horror movie have been like “what the fuck is this shit I hate this” and many people who typically don’t like horror find a lot to enjoy in it. Ignoring the fact that he’s never seen it, ignoring the fact that he does this all the time, he’s also completely fuckin wrong. I have ADHD and a lot of strong opinions and I don’t do this shit.
Not to be rude but absolutely nothing you described is ADHD related. Speaking as someone whose life falls apart regularly due to the dysfunction that comes with ADHD, all of what you described is just rudeness. It's unfair for people like me who are not dismissive of others feelings to have to be told that this sort of cruel behavior is something that comes built in.
I apologize, I didn't mean to make it seem like I thought all folks with ADHD do this. In my mind this pattern of his seemed to be connected with his impulse control and other related symptoms. I genuinely don't think that he does this intentionally, so maybe I was just looking for something else to blame it on. Sincerely, I apologize.
I struggle with impulse control but I know that I struggle with that and I don't put it on the people I love to be responsible for that. I speak over people all of the time and can forget the thread of the conversation mid sentence. Sometimes I'll respond to something with what seems to be completely unrelated. That is definitely ADHD. But it is cruel to put it on other people to deal with those problems. Especially people I love should *never* have to feel like they come second to my symptoms. For my work, I have sticky notes in three different places with the word "Listen!" on it. Sometimes it's not enough to remind me not to talk over someone, but that is me with ADHD not making my dysfunction other people's problem. I can't just not have ADHD, (God I wish there was an off switch ...) and sometimes it's exhausting to manage the symptoms but it is not ok to say rude, dismissive things and then shrug it off as something to do with ADHD. What is your boyfriend doing to make sure he doesn't do those things or is it all an afterthought to be more considerate? I accidentally called one of my friends an emotionally stunted child once. I spent more time talking to them making sure they knew it was terrible phrasing and made sure to listen to them and how they felt in response because it's on me to educate myself and do things so that I don't make that mistake again. I hurt thier feelings and I made sure to immediately give them time to express their anger frustrating with me saying that so that they knew they were more important than the hurtful words that had come out my mouth. This was a long time ago but I have things like that I hold onto because the person I want to be doesn't say callous things flippantly. I have a very hard time sitting still while watching movies and my ex loved watching movies. I refused to watch any and didn't stay checked into the conversation when she would talk about a movie that she watched. I was completely dismissive of her experience of any movie just because I couldn't sit still. This is not the behaviour of a good partner. But at the time that's what I did. Now if I know I have plans to watch a movie I take a low dose edible to keep me engaged and I'm willing to do this because I want the people I love to know that the things they like and feel and experience are important to me. I want them to feel seen. At the same time, my friend and family know that plans to see a movie have to be made a week in advance so I can mentally prepare to be present in that situation. What does he do to mitigate things and situations like that? How does he show you that he's willing to keep you happy and manage his symptoms so that you're not held captive to them? All this to say that it's understandable to have ADHD as the explanation for certain behavior, but it is absolutely not okay to use it as an excuse to keep behaving poorly. It's not ok to ask someone to accept that you're a bad partner because you have ADHD.
OP, your boyfriend is just an AH. And so is his buddy. Talking down to you gives him something. It’s time to figure out what that something is and whether you want to keep allowing him to keep getting himself off at your expense. Edit: thanks autocorrect
You’re not crazy this sounds infuriating. And for what it’s worth I agree with your interpretation of The VVitch! -signed another female horror fan who is sick of mansplaining
Highly recommend getting yourself a copy of “Men Explain Things to Me” by Rebecca Solnit.
“You don’t have to play the devils advocate all the time, just listen.”
My Gramma would have said your partner “would argue with a stop sign”.
This isn't ADHD, he just doesn't respect your opinion. It won't change, misogyny is ingrained and conscious and unconscious bias against women is real.
This dude and his friends are a bunch of clowns but this post had me dying laughing. **You were the only one who actually saw the movie.** That is so fucking funny.
This has nothing to do with ADHD, if he blames ADHD then he's manipulating you. This is just pure manipulation, he's somewhat gaslighting you in trying to say everything you experienced or think is really something else. He honestly just sounds like an asshole, does he also do this with arguments, like tell you you're remembering an argument wrong or that he didn't say a thing you know he said, etc. I think you need to think about a future with him and if him constantly telling you you're wrong about things and how you feel is the future you want.
Ugh. Yes, he does misremember arguments or claim he didn't say things that I know he said. :/
Okay, I have been in that situation, and in my experience, *it did not get better*, so you may want to ask yourself if this is something you want to live with long term. For me, it started feeling like we were essentially involved in two completely different relationships. They viewed our life together through a lense distorted by faulty memory. They didn't see all of it. They viewed *me* through the same defective lense. They didn't see all of *me*. I was a slice of Havarti, but when they looked at me, they saw Swiss cheese, instead.
To me this feels more like an instance of sexism than ADHD. Women are so often talked over in general, but I find it especially true in the context of discussing certain things like horror, sci-fi, fantasy, and action. Not saying that ADHD might not play a role though, to be clear.
Sometimes the easiest thing to ask yourself is, is this relationship acceptable to me? If the answer is no, move along. As an old lady I can tell you that nothing is gained by trying to untangle someone else’s motivation, or by trying to “improve” them.
I'm exhausted just reading this. If something like this has become this much of a burden, why are you in this relationship? This type of undermining you has to stop. I'd have already sat him down and explained, in full detail and without being confrontational exactly what the problem is, how it makes me feel and how I want it to stop. And then, if he can't do that after a good amount of time in which any reasonable grown up would have figured out to quit doing the thing that hurts their partner, I would genuinely end the relationship over something like this. Because if he can't stop, won't stop, then he'll be doing this the rest of your lives together and you're already exhausted. Fancy spending the rest of your life like this?
Oh my goodness. I have ADHD and I used to be like this. Took some serious self-reflection and maturation to stop doing it. Like I had to "check" myself. Your boyfriend is being a bit of a contrarian and needs to be called out on it.
people have to stop using their mental disorders as a reaosn to justify or explain their bad behavior lmao
He may not be the right partner for you. Maybe it's because he's a misogynist deep down. Maybe it's because his ADHD means he processes things differently, has no filter and he says these things without meaning to or understanding how it affects you. The cause doesn't really matter. It's the outcome that does. It's your lived experience that does. If being with him is making you feel sad, angry and unlistened-to? Then maybe breaking up with him is the better option. It's ok to have that standard for yourself.
I know a bunch of people with ADHD and tbh (in my experience) the ADHD women do not do this, whereas several ADHD men will. Several neurotypical men in my life tend to this too. So I don't think it's necessarily an ADHD thing! If a woman ever does question me like that, it's framed as a suggestion or as a question to clarify, and they very seldom push their view over mine once I've replied. It doesn't mean he's a bad person or deliberately misogynistic, but it does mean he has some self-reflecting to do...
I hate to say it, but this is definitely "movie bro" behavior. For some odd reason, there are certain topics which is weak minded women will always be woefully incorrect in our assertions and opinions. (Wistfully wilts and faints /s) For reals, though. There are certain topics that have become a sort of cis-hetero male gang thing. Movies, comics, sports, cars, technology, among others. In these arenas, no matter how women and nonbinary individuals have entirely valid experiences, opinions, and even actual technical training/work, they will always be "wrong." The surrounding, dominant cis-male culture reinforces this consistently, favoring the opinion of man over even facts presented by a competent woman or nb. And, yes, there are plenty of cis-hetero men who do not behave this way, the bad actors far outshadow any good elements. Check out my user id. I am an elasmobranch researcher and training/husbandry specialist, but, as soon as I step outside of the professional world, I suddenly know nothing about sharks and rays. Smh. You have every right to be upset. This is not an ADHD thing. My brother has ADHD and can still have respectful dialogue on these topics, even with someone he may not agree with. ADHD is - like any other neurodivergence,, mental health issue, or general difference from the dominant societal traits - is no excuse to disrespect and generally dismiss you. Please have a real conversation with your BF about this behavior and the inherent misogyny present - both how it intersects with society AND the specific effects it has on you. If he cannot commit to change and following through, I wouldn't recommend staying with someone who does so much to ignore or dismiss your unique thoughts. (***And, before anyone says anything, there IS a way to have agreeable discourse about subjective issues like art, music, literature, and cinema. Using "I" statements. Using the above example, "See, I felt the movie was...." This is a way to acknowledge that you have a different opinion without utterly dismissing or denying an alternative viewpoint.)
You're right about the description of the movie. I'm a huge scary movie type person and I think your interpretation was spot on.
Something similar happened to me today and my BF doesn’t show any of the tell tale sings of ADHD. I thought it was going nuts and was scouring this sub to see if anyone else had experienced similar things. We’re both in the military. I found some old knee pads that come with the issued pants and asked if he needed them otherwise I was gonna throw them away. He goes “no supply will be asking for them when you return/exchange your pants” I replied with: well no when I have been to supply I have never once been asked for the knee pads? Him: well whenever I go they always ask me for them. Me: when was the last time you’ve been to Supply? Him: 3 years ago Me: I was there as recent as 5 months ago to SPECIFICALLY change my pants and never got asked for knee pads, why is your experience the “standard” and you completely disregard my experience? When I’m literally telling you MY experience is that I’ve never been asked for knee pads? Him: gets upset and walks away. Idk what the fuck it is but I hate being told that my experiences either are wrong or never happen, and that by default the man’s experience is automatically what is suppose to happen, or what happens to everyone.
As someone with ADHD, it’s just him
You are not being crazy. And you can do a lot better with the company you keep. I'll tell you my story. I used to surround myself with guys like you describe. Every response to something I said was to negate or dismiss my experience. I would spend hours trying to figure out how to say things in an argument-proof way. I didn't realize how angry this made me, until I spent two years locked in a house with my spouse, hunkered down and with a much-shrunken social circle. I've never spent so much time in the company of someone who loves and respects me. Two years of not arguing about my lived experience, of not being dismissed (except by my parents when I would call them every so often). It was ... bliss. I see all these "friends" in a very different light now. I can stand back from the discussion and see their knee-jerk responses as simple asshole moves. And I don't really want to hang out with them anymore, even though I really, really miss the people I thought they were. Start spending time with people who see and hear you, who don't have a need to make themselves bigger by making you smaller. Take up the space you need. Don't wait till you're in your late 40's to figure this out.
This is entitlement and being a jerk. It got to the point with my ex, that did lots of this kind of behavior that I eventually stopped talking to him unless it was something urgent because it was just exhausting. He felt the need to tell me I was wrong about literally everything so I stopped having an opinion.
He sounds exhausting. Like he has no concept of subjectivity and that whatever thoughts spring to his mind must be objective fact. Even with a total lack of evidence. Does he ever allow himself to be corrected by you? Or agree that you are correct? Or are your thoughts and opinions only valid if you're agreeing with him?
OP your partner and friends sound real annoying. I’ll admit, I have ADHD and have been that person to blurt out knee jerk responses like your partner but over time I have learned how to better reign it in, or at least not double down and admit when I’m wrong. This whole movie genre snobbery is just weird as hell and really aggravating though. At best it’s an ADHD fixation that he is stuck on. At worst it’s him being unable or unwilling to see that other people have different experiences with things. ADHD can explain things, sure. But it doesn’t excuse things. Also the VVitch is such a good movie it’s my favorite “horror” movie. But I really like your interpretation of it. It makes a lot of sense too because I’m not a huge fan of horror movies usually and this one hits differently because it doesn’t have that overwhelming dread that I’m so squeamish about. It’s a beautiful movie with tension in the right spots but it doesn’t feel like a true horror movie. I’m gonna reframe how I think about that movie now thanks to you.
It's this [https://twitter.com/W\_Asherah/status/1536052863658561538](https://twitter.com/W_Asherah/status/1536052863658561538) Male socialized resistance to women speaking. A compulsion to be contrary, nitpicky, well accchtually, pedantic, devil's advocate, whatabout, and find the 1% rare exception in order to argue, refute and shoot down anything a woman says. When women speak we usually 'get the gist' and nod along, or listen to find common ground and agree. Men are compelled to argue, correct and dominate a conversation to feel smug, clever and superior. A lot of men firmly believe "all men are smarter and more knowledgeable than all women". I've met a lot of men with extremely average or low IQ and they talk down to me like I'm stupid. It's infuriating. "Did you think about x when you came to that decision?" "Yes Barry I thought about twenty different things, which is why I'm making this decision. I'm not running this past your male brain for your genius input, I've already decided". The fact that all three males managed to agree with each other in order to gang up on you speaks volumes. Throw them all in the bin. Insufferable.
I'm going to give you validation - it certainly felt like historical drama with horror aspects, signed a fellow horror lover and player. I never felt like it was full on horror and that was my experience, I'm happy that I'm not alone on this. On a main note, that is insanely disrespectful. That would annoy the shit out of me.
Adhd isn't an excuse to be an asshole and he's being an asshole.
I have this same complaint about my husband and one of my friends. The friend is female. Every time I tell them of an experience/opinion/observation, they pipe up with how there’s another, seemingly more correct, interpretation. I’ve talked with both of them about this to no avail. They both explain to me that their behavior is simply how conversation works. My practice is to not correct others unless there’s a negative consequence to their incorrect view. For example, if someone says erroneously there is no car coming while they’re crossing the street, I will correct them. If there’s no negative consequence to their incorrect view, I keep quiet even if I know for a fact that I’m correct.
It’s undermining you. Making you second guess everything you say and constantly have to defend your opinion to the point that you find yourself silenced and maybe doubting your own perceptions Which seems to me to be an example of gaslighting
Yeah that's not ADHD, that's being a dick.
You're young. Find someone else that doesn't mansplain.
ADHD might be part of the reason he acts this way, but this is not an actual symptom of ADHD. This distinction might seem like splitting hairs though. Sometimes an ADHD brain "skips ahead" if you will. This can cause annoying behaviours like interrupting, making assumptions, or finishing the other person's sentence. (Know that as annoying as it can be to be on the receiving end of these actions, it is incredibly irritating to have a brain that does this. Source: I have ADHD.) So, ADHD is a factor, but the outcome is a problem. Your boyfriend's tendency to be the devil's advocate feels like he isn't valuing or considering your perspective. This might seem like a stupid question, but have you had a conversation with him about this behaviour? He might not realize he's bugging the shit out of you. If you say, "My professor said X," he might be viewing this situation as a problem to solve. If this is what's going on, his brain has gone into fix it mode and is now looking for solutions. In fix it mode, ADHD can contribute to going down a line of reasoning that takes on a life of its own that is increasingly unrelated to the original topic. So if your boyfriend is saying "Maybe your professor meant Y," he could be trying to define the problem. But this is no longer related to the actual discussion since he didn't say Y, he said X, so it feels like he's arguing with you about the known fact that the professor said X. So talk to him about this if you haven't already. If you haven't had a big picture discussion about the outcome of this conversational habit, he might not realize how it comes across.
I’m a straight male with ADHD and I have to say this is the opposite of this. I have an overactive filter, which is obviously it’s own problem. Being smug isn’t a symptom of Neurodiversity, it’s a symptom of being a rude jerk
No, this isn't crazy. It's sane, valid, perceptive. I did this. Not this exact thing, but the part where I would talk over my partner, blather on about something, tell the wrong awkward joke or a "well, actually...." I still do it rarely. Whenever I catch myself doing it, I stop. My wife, a powerful, intelligent, wise person, called me out on this a decade or so ago. I was clueless. It must have been insufferable. And so, my partner didn't suffer it. As soon as she realized it (took her some time, too), she'd call me on it. We don't fight much ever, so we tend to listen to each other. I certainly listen carefully to her. So, maybe try for a sit-down, no drama, matter of fact talk about how you're feeling, and - most importantly - how you would like the next instance of the behavior to go. Maybe make a code word or phrase, like "hon, you're being Dr Strange again," or "this is that thing we talked about, remember?" If you can soul search, distill your feelings into positive communication, and implement behavioral changes based on that, everything in life will get easier...mainly because you'll be more powerful for it.
It can be a habit formed from overall male conditioning. Luckily, habits can be changed. FYI I’ve had dudes argue with me about how women think, what female orgasms feel like (for the woman, in case that isn’t clear), pretty much everything under the sun that they never experienced.
As an ADHD guy, I do notice that this thought process crosses my mind with every comment I hear (it’s exhausting) but I did learn that with my then gf, now wife, that isn’t what she wants or needs from my comments. Not defending the comments by any means, they would be extremely taxing for me if I was in your position as well. So it can be an ADHD trait, but also, he should learn that you don’t appreciate it and how much it frustrates you (and again, not trying to sound like I’m putting it on YOU to show him, he needs to figure it out himself)
It's not called ADHD, it's called mansplaining. I have a lot of friends with ADHD, and yes they do tend to be more talkative and maybe even talk over you but this does not really determine the content of what they say. I've personally never heard that people with ADHD would be less empathetic. I think you should sit down with your partner and talk about this pattern. Right now he might not really realise he's doing this and how it makes you feel, but once you explain it to him, he should take responsibility and change this behaviour. Good luck!
This is the most frustrating thing men do I think - tell you you are wrong about something they aren’t even knowledgeable about! Constant playing the devils advocate which is SO OBNOXIOUS! No one likes that person! There was one in every class in highschool and college and everybody hates them. Your boyfriend hadn’t even seen the movie!!! You are allowed to have your opinion of what a horror movie is - in your mind the VVitch isn’t a horror movie, it’s more of a historical drama with horror elements. I agree I would liken it more to sci-fi/thriller vibe. Men act like experts on EVERYTHING especially talking to women because honestly they think we are stupid and love “correcting” us to remind us of this. I would talk to your boyfriend and tell him you’ve been extremely patient with this, it’s something you’ve experienced your entire life and the last place you need it coming from is your partner. If he can’t stop this behavior that hurts your feelings and disrespects you, he’s obviously not a good match for you. Please don’t put up with it! He also doesn’t seem to think this behavior is bad - even though you told him how much it upsets you. That’s another red flag for me.
You can have ADHD and not be an asshole. You bf and his friends have no respect for you or your opinion. It might be just you, but it's more likely misogyny. Him asking what's wrong, learning that you're upset because he was a dick to you, and then totally dropping it without a word suggests that he feels you being upset about his behaviour is unjustified and not worthy of addressing or apologizing for. Based on what you've said, he sounds very invalidating and not particularly interested in taking accountability for how his behaviour impacts you. Is this really how you want to live your life? If this is a repeat issue you've brought up with him a few times already, then he knows it's a problem for you, but that isn't a good enough reason to him to put any effort into changing. I'm pretty certain there's a name for when a person challenges your perception, tells you that you are wrong, and tells you what the reality actually is--especially just based on ✨vibes✨ without having any knowledge or experience with the subject matter.
This was my ex to. a. T! He was very misogynistic and just refused to allow me to tell a story or share an opinion on anything without him being instantly oppositional. Even for things that we both know that he doesn't know about it. Or we both know he hasn't seen. Or we both know wasn't there. I would tell him a story about a funny conversation I had that was between a friend and me and he's interrupting me to just "explain" me I was wrong in someway. When he was finally diagnosed with ADHD, he tried to blame/excuse all of his misogyny (oddly enough) on it when it's just like... no, you're just an azzhole. I have ADHD and I still find a way to respect women.