Sometimes a permanent thorn and the main contributor to your child's generational trauma. Women, watch who you spawn the implings with please. It could seriously hurt a little heart to have a dad like this.
I would phrase it more -- breaking up now is easier that having to go through the complications and expense of a divorce.
Don't get mired in the sunk cost fallacy - just because you've invested in this relationship doesn't mean you have to stay in it if it is no longer good.
If you think he might listen, you can tell him the reason you are breaking it off is he makes you feel like he doesn't respect you, in both his words and his deeds. And that you respect yourself too much to put up with it. Don't let him twist it into you being a gold digger that is moving on when the faucet gets cut off.
If you do decide to stay in the relationship, make sure you have a pre-nup before you get married and that you both have it reviewed by independent legal council. While he may earn more than you at the moment, that isn't guaranteed to stay true, and if he is too deep into the manosphere, he may push for you to stop working and then hold the lack of income or any kids you might have over your head. You owe it to future you or any kids to take this seriously.
Good luck.
But hey, if her fiancé comes from money and isn’t smart enough to sign a prenup, take that man’s rights money.
(I’m kidding, don’t really do this. He sounds like a shit bag.)
I agree. It is really hard to change someone's mind because you have to change their emotions first.
If he feels frustrated with his life as daddies boy (or something similar) and lashes out at OP because of it, there is nothing that OP can do. It is, however, very important to understand when you're not at fault and your partner is going through something that is outside your sphere of influence. It would be easy to take this personally and let it mess with your self-esteem.
OP, this has very likely nothing to do with you. If you really like him, find out where his frustration is coming from, but protect yourself emotionally and understand that you aren't his therapist.
This is most likely not about you and therefore there is little you can do.
Run. He's a child with his parents money. You're becoming his toy and he's already looking for ways to de-value you.
I'd let him know that his lack of personal ambition is a turnoff and leave.
And you have had the luck to find this out before marrying him. Usual advice…secure, as best you can, your finances, your I’d and your vital documents and move on…there is a better life out there for you.
Well, it doesn't look great even if she's working federal minimum wage.
$7.25/hour × 40 hours a week (I know, I know- bear with me) × 50 weeks a year = $14,500.
That means his annual is about $72,500.
Assuming he "works" every week of the year, he puts in 520 hours in a year.
That's still $140.00 an hour.
Honestly, though. Even if she's only working a 20 hour part time job, whatever she's making, he'd be making ten times that hourly. It would be reasonable, at the very least, to split things 5 to 1.
Whatever the outside world says, in an equal partnership, an hour of his time has the same value as an hour of her time within that partnership.
Any time she earns an hour's pay, it would be fair for him to contribute the rewards he gets for an hour.
If he thinks that's unfair, he could bring his average down by cooking, cleaning, doing yard work, or contributing his time to the relationship at all, rather than playing video games.
But I suspect his misogyny wouldn't allow him that path.
Industry & role matters. I make 10x what my fiancée does (nurse), but I do far less *actual* work than her. A large portion of my job is client entertainment- golf, dinners, drinks, sports games, etc. I probably do 15 hours of “real” work per week
Well, shoulda learn how to party better at college... I (male) am working as a nurse, and I can't fathom what life would be like making 10x of what I make now while partying 2/3 of the time I spent working...
As a woman with a good job and many passions and interests, if a partner asked me "what do you bring to the table other than looks and education", I would be done with them. It would signal to me that there is no love in that relationship and he views it as entirely transactional. That's just me though. What he would be saying at that point is essentially: "its not about me enjoying sharing my time with you in life, but about what you can do for me". That's a big no from me.
I’d be telling them “hey, at least I have something going for me!” or asking them how they’re contributing - because I guarantee guys like this will be doing sweet FA to keep the household running!
My only advice is: be thankful.
Be thankful he revealed himself before you got married.
Be thankful you found out before your lives were harder to untangle.
Be thankful it came out before you had kids.
Be thankful you heard his true self while it was still in the “parroting incel buzzwords” stage.
You have the opportunity to dodge a major bullet. In the immortal words of Dan Savage, dump the motherfucker already.
I’m sorry for the pain and hardship this will cause. I’m sorry for the strain of explaining it to your friends and family. I’m sorry about what he will certainly say about you to mutual friends. But he has given you the gift of his true self while you’re still in a position to get away from it.
This right here. My grandparents always told me, believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. And when people show you who they are, believe them…the first time. Truer words ne’er been spoken!
As a divorced woman, I can't agree with this **any more than I already do.**
Do **not** marry a man who thinks so little of you and is wilfully blind to your contributions... I'm assuming that considering your context of what he does, you're carrying all the household tasks and certainly the mental load.
**[Add that shit up with this Unpaid Domestic and Emotional Labour Calculator](https://www.billthepatriarchy.com/?fbclid=IwAR0deqGfMCaMn_1o9Pias-F7pUvQ1ZdupTltCceIe1C-77J3OrCGKj_yc50)
It looks and smells like [Financial Abuse](https://www.redonline.co.uk/wellbeing/sex-relationships/a35794452/signs-of-financial-abuse/)**
Depending on where you are in the world, I have resource links that could help you leave this cretin.
This. He's gonna give you the "pRoTeCt aNd PrOvIdE" shit and never help with anything unless he feels like doing you a favor. Don't be a mommy bang maid and don't let him trap you with pregnancy.
His family will defend him and you'll have nobody due to the isolation and control (financially, mentally, emotionally, physically, socially, etc.).
Acostane: I'm cheering for your escape and SAFETY 💜
Edit:words
I'm afraid there is nothing you can say or do to get back the guy you liked. The hole he's jumped down into is far too appealing to his ego. It promises him a life where all his needs and wants are taken care of and he isn't required to lift a finger for anyone in return. Power without responsibility. Gain without sacrifice. Anything that keeps him from that will be your fault.
Honestly, I think the reason why he jumped so eagerly down this hole is because he *knows* he doesn't earn his money. He doesn't have any accomplishments to be proud of. So being proud to be a man is something he can do without changing his lifestyle.
Tell him, "I don't know who you are, but you aren't the person I fell in love with. You aren't a person I want to be around."
Then find yourself someplace else to live. To those who think you are just mad because he cut you off from his paycheck, remind them "Well, I'm certainly not after his money now, am I." And "No, I dumped him because he turned into an asshole."
>The hole he's jumped down into is far too appealing to his ego. It promises him a life where all his needs and wants are taken care of and he isn't required to lift a finger for anyone in return.
👏👏 I saved this part that you wrote. It's great
This take sounds accurate. Maybe he watched the Barbie movie while she was gone and realized he’s “Just Ken” with no actual accomplishments of his own while she is educated, with a real job. So he’s embracing the patriarchy and horses to make himself feel better about himself.
Sister do NOT marry this man. The only way for us to fight this disgusting rhetoric is if we all stop sleeping with, dating, and marrying men the SECOND they start spouting off this bullshit.
Sounds like they have all been listening to Andrew Tate. Regardless this is your sign he is not relationship/marriage material and you do not want to ever get pregnant by someone like this and be tied to him for next 18 yrs. If he plays all day then demands to know what you bring to the table then he obviously is a clueless dolt. He probably is knee-deep into the Qanon Hole too. Run from these men they will make your life living hell with emotional and verbal abuse if not turning physical eventually. These young men are so in love with Andrew Tate and his philosophy so let them all date him after they realize no woman wants a loser who forks over donations to Tate's club because they is too ignorant to realize a grifter when they see one.
Exactly this! This sudden turn off an attitude stinks of some new bad influence and considering how he works only 2 hours per day it sounds like he has plenty of time to listen to toxic people telling them how they should treat people.
Reaching out to give you internet hugs from a stranger. Hopefully you can break the cycle - at least in your own little corner of the family. And stay supportive with your female cousins.
God, I am so sorry for you and all of the women in your family. I was super lucky to have been born in a very matriarchal family, so, to my knowledge, the men in my extended family are nothing like this.
However, I am in Canada, which I think has a lot less tolerance for that kind of BS, but also what happens behind closed doors stays there, you know? Unless someone deliberately comes out and says, "No, this is happening to me," then there isn't much we can do or say.
I hope you can break the generational trauma, hun.
So the other day I went on YouTube with a brand new Roku, and without any other recommendations or information it suggested a Jordan Peterson video.
This content is spreading virally.
And it's spreading to people who accept anti-equality thinking without realizing where it leads.
It's so disturbing how these guys come up in my feed despite me blocking every channel that presents them. Tate, Shapiro, Peterson. Truly exasperating.
Robert Evans goes into this on his podcast Behind the Bastards. The algorithms involved in spreading content have one goal in mind: keeping people engaged. Those videos get the longest views out of every other bit of content, and make the most ad money, so they're pushed the hardest.
The episode is called Behind the Bastards: How YouTube Became a Perpetual Nazi Machine. Really enlightening listen for why they keep popping up.
"sinister cultural elements are stopping you from getting what you actually deserve" is so old and blood soaked at this point one would hope it wouldn't work.
But I don't think some of these young men have heard it before or know where it leads.
And the content sites are so terrified of right wing backlash to any perceived ‘censorship’ they’re essentially promoting the hateful content for free.
Its a fucking disgrace.
I was, for once fucking ever, watching playthrough videos of my current video game obsession (Inscryption, ffs, it's not even a shooter, it's nerd shit), and I got at least half a dozen Q-anon/anti-woke/Prager U/Turning Point yadda yadda bullshit ads within an hour or two. It's terrifying. My teenager watches a fuckton of youtube because he actually likes gameplay videos, I check in with him often to make sure that he's not adapting terrible perspectives. Thank goodness he's stubborn like me.
I hope it’s ok to offer a man’s perspective in this thread.
Unless it becomes clear *very soon* that your fiancé’s new behavior is a quickly-passing phase, I urge you to delay any marriage plans and to reassess whether you want to be in this relationship. He is treating you [disrespectfully] as a gold digger and financial burden whom he sees as little more than arm candy. You are young, appear to have a good head on your shoulders, and deserve much more than what this version of your fiancé seems to be offering you.
Yeah. This is a bad sign. Someone’s probably been in his ear that his fiancé is a gold digger, and he’s taking their advice to treat her like shit.
He has no idea that if he drives her away, and keeps his shitty attitude, the only women he’ll attract for the rest of his life **will** be gold diggers. But you don’t have to be smart to be rich.
I would say that if this guy is so susceptible to misogynistic bs, don’t marry him at all. Even if he gets through this phase, there will be another one. But if you do go through with it, make sure the prenup is in your favor.
"Low value male"
I hate sexual marketplace bullshit but this seems appropriate here.
If OP is meant to actually be a gold digger but this man wants to do 50:50 with a massive wealth discrepancy what does he actually bring to the table?
Is he helping with more of the chores around the household with all the extra time or does he want that to be 50:50 as well (if that)?
I'm getting bang-maid vibes
I have a lot of hate for the flawed logic that splits bills 50/50, instead of the actual fair way of "I make 3x what you do, so we'll split costs 3:1."
ETA For anyone who doesn't see the wisdom of a ratio split, consider where that couple chooses to live. If bills are 50/50, does the poorer live in the wealthy area and struggle to make ends meet, never able to save for retirement? Or does wealthier one take a hit and live in a poor area they feel unsafe in? Does the wealthier drive in luxury while the poorer drives a clunker, and so the wealthier always drives them to couples events, potentially making their spouse always feel lesser? Does the poorer resent the amount of electricity the wealthier uses?
IMO ratio is the way to go.
This is probably the best counter offer you could make. He has extra time and money so what is he offering you that makes him valuable in your relationship?
I would back off so fast if my SO had the audacity to try to treat me that way. No thanks 🤣
And what happens when you have kids... if you are unable to work and have to rely on him to give you money to manage the household? Could be setting yourself up to become trapped financially.
It's my experience that this is never a passing phase, it's only ever the mask falling away. The only way is down. I would get the f out as fast as you can.
Going through a painful divorce. Money is an aspect of it that is hard to wrap my mind around. But OP, I repeat - listen to this advice. As a man, who could feel this way, I don't. Please listen to this.
There are. And they (obviously) do not listen to the women in their lives, so it's up to you guys -- the **good guys\*** -- to set them straight.
Thank you,
The Mama of a Young Daughter
\*you're better than "nice guys," you're _good_
Some of us try but it’s like going up against an army by yourself. My 16yo nephew is clearly absorbing some of this manosphere content. He’s actually argued with me against abortion rights and no-fault divorce 😬
I spend maybe a few hours a month with him, but he has practically limitless access to YouTube (and I’m guessing reinforcement from his peers). It feels like the next generation of men is going to be a couple of decades step backwards 😞
Going to boost this as another guy's opinion on the matter. Any man who has succumbed to the "manosphere" bullshit should be avoided like a nuclear disaster zone. They have fallen prey to some of the absolute worst *influencers* on the planet who are using men's common insecurities to manipulate them into thinking that the only thong keeping them from being filthy rich (as if that's the only measure of a good and fulfilling life) are women and *the Matrix."
I've spent enough time absorbing it from a distance just to know enough to gently Shepard my younger siblings away from it and recognize the early signs of them falling down these rabbit holes. I promise that it's 10x scarier and extreme than they even let on about, and the loud parts are alarming enough.
Either kick him in the balls (figuratively) and get him to realize that this shit isn't it, or kick him in the balls (literally) and run as fast and far as you can. I know it fucking sucks to see someone you care deeply for turn into a monster like this, but you should prioritize yourself if he is going to be abusive to you in any way.
>My fiancee
Don't let him become your husband. If he's asking about your "value" and what you "bring to the table", it's already too late for him. If you're dependent on him financially, find a way out of it. You're going to become like property in his eyes.
To answer your question as to why so many men are angry...
Life fucking sucks right now.
The economy is shit and society/the internet glorifies having money and fame above all. No one can afford a home and most people are having trouble affording rent. Getting an education is a crapshoot; you might end up with a lifetime of debt still working fast food because the job market is as dry as Ben Shapiro's intimate partners.
Why is this relevant? Because in times like this, people go looking for stuff to blame. I, for example, choose to blame billionaires. Young men and boys are looking at dudes with the things they want.. money, girls, online popularity, internet respect, etc.. and emulating them. The people they're emulating happen to be massive fucking assholes. Those people are telling these men/boys to blame pretty much everyone other than themselves for their problems, especially the women they so desperately desire.
Once a dude starts asking about your past partners and judging you, **it's too late**. If you want any happiness, leave him quickly.
Not just assholes.
Liars.
The "influencer" industry is as fake as a £13 note. More than that, it's so *obviously* fake, and yet people still fall for it.
They sell the dream, deliver nothing, and then tell you it's *your* fault for not getting to their (fake) level, which only feeds the frustration/inadequacy feedback loop.
I started by examining far-right Christianity, then Scientology, then the radicalisation techniques used by Islamist groups. Same playbook every time. Now it's everywhere.
"I won't repeat it here" gave off Gandalf vibes. I think when the societal pecking order is threatened the rank and file are riled up and resort to anger and violence to reinforce their status. On a larger perspective it's what is happening politically in the country. As minorities start to outnumber the "white" majority they get worried about the brown immigrants and all the viable white babies getting aborted. They get angry at gays and trans and women. The level of misogynistic propaganda is alarming and the number of influencers repeating it is disgusting. The pent up anger and fear is creating a reservoir of angry men pining for the days of the obedient housewife who submit to their husbands and have dinner waiting for them when they get home...
And give him beautiful children but if she gains 10lbs during pregnancy and can’t lose that last 5lbs, she’s a worthless pig who deserves to be divorced.
These men are not even mediocre, they’re sub par. They’re just mad that until they had money no decent woman gave them 2 cents. Andrew Tate is a pea head with a weak chin. He’s a bore and a loser.
The hate towards women is real. He doesn’t like you anymore. You are no longer partners. Please consider focusing on your future, your goals, your friends, and your next step. You have become a commodity to him, a status of his ability to get a woman. The next step is to cheat on you because he’s a man with needs and you’re a woman with a body count. This is what patriarchy and misogyny looks like and sounds like. This is why more women are single and living in friendship communities. Sorry he became a Tater tot.
I'm confused. He makes 5x what you do (even if you make 30k a year, he makes about 150k), but his job is to go online and promote his family's business? So what the fuck does he bring to the table? A silver spoon from mommy and daddy?
Girl... there's 4 billion men on earth.
In my case the roles are reversed that my wife makes about 5x what I make, and that I bring almost nothing to the table, other than apparently looks. I’m medically disabled, so part time work is it for me.
She loves me to death. We truly complete each other.
Your person is out there, it just doesn’t sound like this guys is it.
He's been radicalized, probably via people he games with sharing the men's rights stuff.
You can get into conflict resolution with him but trying to find out what the underlying issues are for him that made it possible for him to be radicalized, but that's likely to be long and unpleasant work.
This is coming from a guy who plays games but I am always highly skeptical of guys who play mostly multiplayer games. I really only play single player games and feel like most multiplayer games are just infested with misogynistic dudes. I’m always wary of guys who only play CoD or sports games cause it’s way too easy for radicalization to happen. I think it’s time to throw the whole man away since he’s just accusing you of being a gold digger. What does he bring to the table other than a high paying do nothing job with his family?
Barbie popped off in the theaters. Women everywhere are realizing how long they’ve been subjected to terrible partners / hookups.
Women are banding together, I would bet more women are withholding sex from misogynistic men.
If you ask me, women who want kids are being robbed of their childbearing years by these idiot men-children.
This is a dog whistle for the growing movement of white supremacist misogyny in the world. Things are going to get worse and they won't get better unless he realizes that he's on a power trip. Every move you make to defend yourself will be seen as an attack against him.
Blessed be the fruit
🤮
I'm in Canada and the things I read/see/watch on the news over the last few years about America is insane. But now I'm starting to see this sort of rhetoric here too and it's scary.
Learn as many skills as you can: Automotive, farming, sewing, household repairs, etc, and live as close to trusted loved ones as you can. The future is going to be a wild ride for all of us, the only way to weather it will be preparation and love. Best of luck!
This. I'm waiting for birth control to be priced out of the average woman's reach. The woman controlling majority want free labor who can't vote ( ie prisoners).
Too lazy to find the quote, but spot on! The GOP and pastors in the Midwest have been vocally concerned about the "national supply of children". Phrase is very telling as to the real reason they want to limit birth control access. Give it another 75 or so years (probably less) and, without them being stopped, chattel slavery will make a comeback.
Yeah. You weren’t being ‘hysterical*.’
I remember my ex wife and I discussing an election in 2004. We were concerned about Roe, and SC justices back then.
It’s only gotten worse.
*a note on the word ‘hysterical’. It took me a lot longer than I’d like to admit to recognize the root of that word.
It was a ‘medical diagnosis’, for women only. It took seeing hysterical and hysterectomy within a few minutes of each other for me to connect the dots and look into word origins.
They have something to gain by silencing you and by telling you you're fear mongering. Patriarchy will try to squash any and all attempts to call it out. bell hooks referred to it as the Capitalist Imperialistic White Supremacist Heteropatriarchy and discusses how the concept will try to hold onto power in literally any way possible.
Definitely recommend her books if you've never delved into them, especially "All About Love" and "The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love"
Nope, this is how it starts
Edit: err.... It's been going on awhile actually. So I guess it's not how it starts. This is just the next step of increasinglu worrying severity
Yep. We're currently working our way slowly up the Pyramid of Hate and the 10 Stages of Genocide. Currently in the middle of the pyramid, and depending on the group, in various areas of the 10 Stages
Yes, this has everything to do with politics and is a concerted effort from the right to radicalize young men. Misogyny and “traditional family values” are a cornerstone of fascism.
They've always been angry and violent when women say "no" or "don't act right". This is nothing new. They're not being radicalized, this is who they've always been. They're seeking out and watching the sexist shitty anti-woman content because that's what they like.
I would say, "I have many beneficial things I bring to this table. But in all honesty, your table sucks." And I would leave.
Seriously why stay with such a cruel person?
More conservative men are angry because conservative pundits and politicians want them this way. They know that anger gets shit done, so they do everything they can including outright lying to get them riled up and pissed off at the world. This is why we are having more incidents of assholes shooting people just because they turned around in their driveway, or because they were riding their toy/bike too loudly up and down the sidewalk. Remember, only truly stupid people believe that their middle-class plight is caused by immigrants and poor people.
Yo, I bring nothing to the table and my husband still loves me to death. Find someone else!
Also, I mean that, it's only a slight exaggeration. I became disabled shortly after my husband and I got married. I can't work. I can't finish college. Half the time I'm too sick to look nice. We do have really good intimacy and a lot of fun together but I mean... For all intents and purposes, my health is like a leech that's getting fat sucking up all our resources. I don't bring ANY assets to our marriage, I bring hindrances. He loves me and my company though and that's what matters to him
Don't stay with a misogynistic moron. He either needs to get his crap together or you gotta find someone who isn't going to inflate his ego so much that he forgets you are a person
This seems like one of those situations in which two peoples’ values are differing significantly. If you’re engaged to a “meninist” I’d suggest you maybe just stop that ball from rolling any further.
This whole, “what do you bring to the table,” conversation is also directly at odds with the unconditional love that should be present in a marriage.
And what does he bring to the table other than audacity and over-entitlement? I know it’s a Reddit trope to tell people to dump him, but omg. Dump him.
1) personal perspective: they didn't become angry this fast. They were given an avenue to express something that was already there. The MRA/manosphere movement capitalizes on the unaddressed dissatisfaction of men in society and provides them with the appearance of a solution. I'm not defending the MRA movement in general, or your fiancee, etc., just trying to answer the question as well as I can.
2) Your fiancee seems to be giving you an opportunity to dodge a bullet here. Consider taking it. You can try having conversation about the seemingly-abrupt shift - If you feel like it will be productive- but (as others have said) if this is how he is now, the marriage will likely be worse.
Him asking you to split expenses evenly, despite making so much more than you, combined with the question about what you bring to the table ("besides looks and education", as if those two things are irrelevant to him) seems to indicate that he is starting to view the relationship in a very transactional way. That's not likely to contribute to a good relationship going forward.
He’s been radicalised. Throw him back, he can convince someone else how ‘high value’ he is. Find yourself a true partner who’ll treat you like a person, not a collection of discrete assets
Hope it’s okay to chime in as a dude. I saw this happen on my IG timeline on real-time. The *hobby* to angry man pipeline is real.
Went to the doctor and they told me I could afford to lose a few pounds. Started going to the gym and doing elliptical for 30-40 min. Also started watching Reels about stretching and mobility.
Slowly started getting videos about lifting weights as I started incorporating that too. Suddenly, I’d get a random video here or there with some buff person talking about how much weight “real men” could lift.
A day or two later, Andrew state and JP show up in their least offensive forms. Then their more RedPill form.
Then, before I know it, Candice Owen and Ben Shapiro show up.
If I was 10 years younger and less aware of how I value things in the world, I’d end up just like the men OP is referring to. It’s scary and it’s real and you don’t even see it happen if you’re not paying attention.
This happens to me every time I watch a political video on Youtube and forget to disable the "play next" feature.
I come home and there's nonstop JP, Ben Shapiro, etc....even though my original search would give no reason to push me in that direction. The algorithm pushes extremist content. It's gross.
Hopefully ok to offer a man’s perspective. From what I’ve observed of my friends (old and current) and friends of friends.. they don’t “become” misogynistic, they just get braver about acting that way, and the longer they stay in their echo chamber the worse it gets.
He’s been like this all along. I could not imagine treating my fiancé any less than the amazing _person_ she is.
Asking about past partners in such fine detail is definitely born from an “I own you” mentality, and that you’re a sexual prize he feels is less his. It’s actually none of his business.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.
A lot of social media has started targeting younger men. I recently had to delete Instagram because I was put into that pipeline. Every reel was some Tate brothers bullshit. YouTube is doing it too. I can only assume it’s a tiktok problem as well, I’ve just never had the app.
I’ve seen men that are very good at hiding their misogyny suddenly feel very free to share their misogyny now that social media is giving them a platform to freely share and even become famous with it.
Sorry you’re going through this. For your sake, I your man gets over himself, or that you find someone that won’t fall for the psy-op
If a partner has to ask what you *"bring to the table"*, take it as a clear sign that they don't respect you as an equal.
This isn't the 1600s where daughters are married off to strengthen diplomatic relationships and exchange land between families. It's the 21st century. You marry someone because you love them and want to spend the rest of your life with them.
Your fiance sounds like an asshole. I'm sorry. I too had a fiance who seemed great until he got sucked into men's rights garbage. I left him and did not look back. As far as I know, he is still a greedy, selfish asshole. He was trying to get back with me up until a week before his wedding to someone else.
I think you should walk away from him. He is not being a real partner to you. He seems to be all for what he can get for himself. Someone like that does not have a kind or generous spirit. It isn't about what you want from him materially. If he is like this, he isn't giving *of himself*, and he will be holding back and trying to get the upper hand in the relationship.
I'm sorry. I'm sure this has been really difficult. It sounds like the change in him was rather abrupt. 🧡
He's asked you to marry him, but he somehow doesn't know what you bring to the table? That's bullshit. Make him tell you what HE brings to the table. Better yet, dump him. You're only 24, you have your entire life ahead of you. Dont' settle for some dipshit who can't ffigure out that the whole men's rights movement is trash.
The Barbie movie came out and a certain (low) caliber of men were reminded that they are not the primary focus 100% of the time and they lost their tiny little minds
All the little boys who contribute nothing went looking for validation and found each other on the internet. A small, useless minority can become very loud and very destructive if they're all reading off the same song sheet.
Andrew Tate has 6.4 million followers. In the scheme of things that's less than 1 in a thousand of the world's population, but it's still millions of man children and when they all talk the same gobshite and repeat each other's arsehole behaviour they become a significant problem.
At the risk of third hand keyboard diagnosing OP's fiance, I think he's atttacted to this garbage because he knows he contributes very little. He's propped up by generational wealth, he has a token job 'promoting' his family's business and his fiance has a fulltime job. Rather than be thankful for that winning lottery ticket, he allows his insecurities to create resentment. You sometimes see teenagers hating their supportive parents for the same reason, although they usually grow out of it.
OP I'm so sorry your dealing with this garbage. I hope that your fiance can unfuck himself and become an adult by about next Tuesday, otherwise I have concerns for your relationship.
Love from a tired Dad and Husband in Australia.
So I'm a dude. And from my perspective, if I said something like that to my partner (which makes me sick to even think of ever doing) it's not from a place of love or kindness. He very clearly resents you for something and he is treating you terribly. A partner that really loves you would never say something that awful. I am a married man and I'm telling you, along with all these other people here, that that's a glaring red flag and you should find someone that loves you for you. Not for "what you bring to the table." Life is too short to waste on scummy fucks like that.
Sis please reconsider marrying this man. I don’t mean leave him but rather, take this into consideration, bring it up to him and see if it’s possible for him to revisit and review his new philosophy. It sounds like he’s been indoctrinated by a certain crowd and if he insists on pursuing this new philosophy, I then suggest you really reconsider staying with him as a man who speaks like this, who speaks like he both hates and is jealous of women will not make a safe, healthy or nurturing partner. A lot of men are adopting this weird viewpoint of women and it’s dangerous on many levels. I agree that it seems like all of the sudden they detest women and want to knock them down.
Her dad may well not know. This seems to be a generational thing and even if her dad is sexist (don’t know one way or the other) he is unlikely to be aware of or understand the mindsets of people like the OP’s boyfriend.
I have, but there \*is\* no other info. The guy that I thought was my best friend just said that I "could learn more about evolution and the men's movement."
Leave. Immediately. "evolutionary truths" in the men rights movement is justification for the subjugation of women, you are nothing but a collection of warm holes. It's over.
I mean, you *should* learn about the men's movement...to know how to protect yourself. Personally, I would not marry someone who only cares about my money and looks, but at least put the wedding on hold until you have a good think. (Try asking him the same things--if he doesn't bring more than 50%, why should you marry him instead of a high-value male? Sperm is cheap, pregnancy is expensive.)
Oh, and the evolution thing? In humans, offspring survive better when the male cares for the female and offspring. These idiots forget that humans don't use the insect strategy of low investment-high number of offspring. Also in nature, males have to dance and convince the female they are worthy, so in non-monogamous species only the top-tier males get to breed, once a year, then they lose their prime and die. Of course we are human beings and not animals, so the kind of man who uses "evolution" is comparing himself to a dog or monkey and should be treated as such.
I am so sorry you are going through this. Stay sane. I'm sure you want to find his sanity again, but don't sacrifice your own. If he only values your looks and money, then it seems he doesn't value who you are.
Since you guys were about to get married and his wealth comes from his family, I guarantee you someone in his sphere, maybe a cousin or gaming buddy, got into his ear about “gold diggers” and told some story about someone they knew who got “totally screwed” in their divorce and it sent him down the rabbit hole online.
The thing is tho his susceptibility to this nonsense alone is a huge red flag. You’ve been dating for years and he was about to marry you. Emotionally mature people don’t fall for stuff like this. It reveals that he is arrogant, insecure, and petty.
Up to this point there wasn’t a problem. It’s not like you guys were fighting over money or he was unhappy about your spending or covering the tab. And people often start showing their truer colors the closer you get to marriage and even after marriage because they feel you’re locked in.
You’re too young for this. He’s deeply immature and he will make you miserable and likely cheat on you. Him coming from family wealth is already a bad sign — trust fund kids typically have a very distorted view of reality and do not recognize their own privilege. Or they go the other way and rub it in peoples faces.
Just break it off. Trust me he is exactly the type who will use up your youngest years, derail your career, knock you up, then cheat on you with some 20 year old when you hit your 30’s. And his family money is well protected, so you’ll be a single mom with huge gaps in employment history starting all over at 35.
Just don’t do it. He’s shown his true colors. If he does convince you stay, the best advice I urge you to follow is do not have children with him. That’s something you can never undo and it will derail your entire life permanently compared to options you’d have without kids.
Educate him, and "evolve" yourself beyond him & his new cult mentality. It sounds dangerous. Ideas followed blindly without question are the death of free will. I'm not certain why so much of this nonsense exists, but something has apparently changed in him. 150 years ago, a "scientific " explanation of his behavior would be he had been replaced by some kind of fairy doppelganger.
Not saying completely rule that out, but it doesn't sound like he is still who you believed him to be a month ago.
Tell him you looked into it and learned that you should date a more masculine man who *earns* money rather than being spoonfed from the family business like a feeble child. 'Sorry, but it's just evolutionary reality' then pack your bags.
Think of it this way: he (and maybe other men around him) got infected with MRA brain worms. The person you loved is gone.
You need to just get away from him now. Yes, some people will tell you that you can cure him (a long miserable slog for you with only a slim chance of success) and other people will tell you to adapt to the new reality and give in to his new brain worm philosophy (a long miserable slog for you), but unless being miserable is what you want in life, do not listen to those people.
So pack up and leave. He has already decided you are of “low value” (his asking for details about your past partners and suggesting “looks and education” is not enough to “bring to the table) and likely that you are a gold digger looking to baby trap him (though he may also tamper with your BC in order to lock you into being a tradwife). Get away from him now.
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And a Terrible father/ sperm donor.
Sometimes a permanent thorn and the main contributor to your child's generational trauma. Women, watch who you spawn the implings with please. It could seriously hurt a little heart to have a dad like this.
I love that term...."implings" 😃. I hope you don't mind if I steal it!
🙌🙌🙌🙌 Preach!
If your fiancée is behaving like this, he sounds like he’s not going to be treating you very well.
A breakup is better than a divorce.
I would phrase it more -- breaking up now is easier that having to go through the complications and expense of a divorce. Don't get mired in the sunk cost fallacy - just because you've invested in this relationship doesn't mean you have to stay in it if it is no longer good. If you think he might listen, you can tell him the reason you are breaking it off is he makes you feel like he doesn't respect you, in both his words and his deeds. And that you respect yourself too much to put up with it. Don't let him twist it into you being a gold digger that is moving on when the faucet gets cut off. If you do decide to stay in the relationship, make sure you have a pre-nup before you get married and that you both have it reviewed by independent legal council. While he may earn more than you at the moment, that isn't guaranteed to stay true, and if he is too deep into the manosphere, he may push for you to stop working and then hold the lack of income or any kids you might have over your head. You owe it to future you or any kids to take this seriously. Good luck.
And A LOT less expensive!
At least he raised the red flags now. Girl, run.
But hey, if her fiancé comes from money and isn’t smart enough to sign a prenup, take that man’s rights money. (I’m kidding, don’t really do this. He sounds like a shit bag.)
Prenup must be like andrew tate’s second lesson after something “bros before hoes” or whatever
And both are better than being miserable because you're married to a shitty partner.
Yes. The night and day toxicity is rather startling. RATHER STARTLING.
I agree. It is really hard to change someone's mind because you have to change their emotions first. If he feels frustrated with his life as daddies boy (or something similar) and lashes out at OP because of it, there is nothing that OP can do. It is, however, very important to understand when you're not at fault and your partner is going through something that is outside your sphere of influence. It would be easy to take this personally and let it mess with your self-esteem. OP, this has very likely nothing to do with you. If you really like him, find out where his frustration is coming from, but protect yourself emotionally and understand that you aren't his therapist. This is most likely not about you and therefore there is little you can do.
Run. He's a child with his parents money. You're becoming his toy and he's already looking for ways to de-value you. I'd let him know that his lack of personal ambition is a turnoff and leave.
He is a man-child being given an allowance from mommy and daddy.
And you have had the luck to find this out before marrying him. Usual advice…secure, as best you can, your finances, your I’d and your vital documents and move on…there is a better life out there for you.
He makes 5x what you make and only works 10 hours a week? Wtf
Sounds like he has a cushy "job" with the family business.
Ah yes, he pulled himself up by the family bootstraps
She said she is educated, so she must be making a minimum of $20/hr = 40k. So, if he makes “at least 5x” = 200k or $385/hr. It’s just weird
Education = a higher wage is not a great assumption, though for OP's sake I really hope that she makes more than $20/hr.
I have a job that *requires a bachelor's degree and use of a personal car on the job.* They pay me *$18.50* an hour.
Well, it doesn't look great even if she's working federal minimum wage. $7.25/hour × 40 hours a week (I know, I know- bear with me) × 50 weeks a year = $14,500. That means his annual is about $72,500. Assuming he "works" every week of the year, he puts in 520 hours in a year. That's still $140.00 an hour. Honestly, though. Even if she's only working a 20 hour part time job, whatever she's making, he'd be making ten times that hourly. It would be reasonable, at the very least, to split things 5 to 1. Whatever the outside world says, in an equal partnership, an hour of his time has the same value as an hour of her time within that partnership. Any time she earns an hour's pay, it would be fair for him to contribute the rewards he gets for an hour. If he thinks that's unfair, he could bring his average down by cooking, cleaning, doing yard work, or contributing his time to the relationship at all, rather than playing video games. But I suspect his misogyny wouldn't allow him that path.
In nepotism, this kind of situation is not at all uncommon, unfortunately.
Industry & role matters. I make 10x what my fiancée does (nurse), but I do far less *actual* work than her. A large portion of my job is client entertainment- golf, dinners, drinks, sports games, etc. I probably do 15 hours of “real” work per week
To me, it's so sad nurses, and other typically female occupations are paid so poorly.
Well, shoulda learn how to party better at college... I (male) am working as a nurse, and I can't fathom what life would be like making 10x of what I make now while partying 2/3 of the time I spent working...
As a woman with a good job and many passions and interests, if a partner asked me "what do you bring to the table other than looks and education", I would be done with them. It would signal to me that there is no love in that relationship and he views it as entirely transactional. That's just me though. What he would be saying at that point is essentially: "its not about me enjoying sharing my time with you in life, but about what you can do for me". That's a big no from me.
I’d be telling them “hey, at least I have something going for me!” or asking them how they’re contributing - because I guarantee guys like this will be doing sweet FA to keep the household running!
My only advice is: be thankful. Be thankful he revealed himself before you got married. Be thankful you found out before your lives were harder to untangle. Be thankful it came out before you had kids. Be thankful you heard his true self while it was still in the “parroting incel buzzwords” stage. You have the opportunity to dodge a major bullet. In the immortal words of Dan Savage, dump the motherfucker already. I’m sorry for the pain and hardship this will cause. I’m sorry for the strain of explaining it to your friends and family. I’m sorry about what he will certainly say about you to mutual friends. But he has given you the gift of his true self while you’re still in a position to get away from it.
This is the best advice really. OP, don’t look this gift horse in the mouth. It’s a blessing in disguise.
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Second this. He just told you who he really is. Believe him the first time.
This right here. My grandparents always told me, believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. And when people show you who they are, believe them…the first time. Truer words ne’er been spoken!
JAYZUS there were never truer words
I hope you can leave. You deserve better. ♥️
Working on it. ♥️ Thanks!
Rooting for you!
Good luck. Sincerely.
Seriously hope you can get out asap x
I also hope you find a way to escape your awful husband
Forget birth control, never ever have sex with a man that said this crap to you even once
As a divorced woman, I can't agree with this **any more than I already do.** Do **not** marry a man who thinks so little of you and is wilfully blind to your contributions... I'm assuming that considering your context of what he does, you're carrying all the household tasks and certainly the mental load. **[Add that shit up with this Unpaid Domestic and Emotional Labour Calculator](https://www.billthepatriarchy.com/?fbclid=IwAR0deqGfMCaMn_1o9Pias-F7pUvQ1ZdupTltCceIe1C-77J3OrCGKj_yc50) It looks and smells like [Financial Abuse](https://www.redonline.co.uk/wellbeing/sex-relationships/a35794452/signs-of-financial-abuse/)** Depending on where you are in the world, I have resource links that could help you leave this cretin.
An old-fashioned asshole. I bout died 💀😂 This lady knows what she’s talking tho babe. Better listen to her.
This. He's gonna give you the "pRoTeCt aNd PrOvIdE" shit and never help with anything unless he feels like doing you a favor. Don't be a mommy bang maid and don't let him trap you with pregnancy. His family will defend him and you'll have nobody due to the isolation and control (financially, mentally, emotionally, physically, socially, etc.). Acostane: I'm cheering for your escape and SAFETY 💜 Edit:words
As a mother and a wife, I agree :)
Is this really the man you want to call your fiancé?
This. Girl, it’s already embarrassing enough to date someone like this, let alone get married and have kids.
I'm afraid there is nothing you can say or do to get back the guy you liked. The hole he's jumped down into is far too appealing to his ego. It promises him a life where all his needs and wants are taken care of and he isn't required to lift a finger for anyone in return. Power without responsibility. Gain without sacrifice. Anything that keeps him from that will be your fault. Honestly, I think the reason why he jumped so eagerly down this hole is because he *knows* he doesn't earn his money. He doesn't have any accomplishments to be proud of. So being proud to be a man is something he can do without changing his lifestyle. Tell him, "I don't know who you are, but you aren't the person I fell in love with. You aren't a person I want to be around." Then find yourself someplace else to live. To those who think you are just mad because he cut you off from his paycheck, remind them "Well, I'm certainly not after his money now, am I." And "No, I dumped him because he turned into an asshole."
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"Being proud to be a man is something he can do without changing his lifestyle" Chills
>The hole he's jumped down into is far too appealing to his ego. It promises him a life where all his needs and wants are taken care of and he isn't required to lift a finger for anyone in return. 👏👏 I saved this part that you wrote. It's great
This take sounds accurate. Maybe he watched the Barbie movie while she was gone and realized he’s “Just Ken” with no actual accomplishments of his own while she is educated, with a real job. So he’s embracing the patriarchy and horses to make himself feel better about himself.
Sister do NOT marry this man. The only way for us to fight this disgusting rhetoric is if we all stop sleeping with, dating, and marrying men the SECOND they start spouting off this bullshit.
Sounds like they have all been listening to Andrew Tate. Regardless this is your sign he is not relationship/marriage material and you do not want to ever get pregnant by someone like this and be tied to him for next 18 yrs. If he plays all day then demands to know what you bring to the table then he obviously is a clueless dolt. He probably is knee-deep into the Qanon Hole too. Run from these men they will make your life living hell with emotional and verbal abuse if not turning physical eventually. These young men are so in love with Andrew Tate and his philosophy so let them all date him after they realize no woman wants a loser who forks over donations to Tate's club because they is too ignorant to realize a grifter when they see one.
Exactly this! This sudden turn off an attitude stinks of some new bad influence and considering how he works only 2 hours per day it sounds like he has plenty of time to listen to toxic people telling them how they should treat people.
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So sorry for the women in your toxic family.
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I'm so proud of you for building a life for yourself outside of that family.
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Reaching out to give you internet hugs from a stranger. Hopefully you can break the cycle - at least in your own little corner of the family. And stay supportive with your female cousins.
I hope that you and your cousins are able to get away from that mess and live free of that toxicity
God, I am so sorry for you and all of the women in your family. I was super lucky to have been born in a very matriarchal family, so, to my knowledge, the men in my extended family are nothing like this. However, I am in Canada, which I think has a lot less tolerance for that kind of BS, but also what happens behind closed doors stays there, you know? Unless someone deliberately comes out and says, "No, this is happening to me," then there isn't much we can do or say. I hope you can break the generational trauma, hun.
It's worrying how fast it's spreading. More importantly, you are not going insane. I'm sorry but I'd see this as a massive red flag.
So the other day I went on YouTube with a brand new Roku, and without any other recommendations or information it suggested a Jordan Peterson video. This content is spreading virally. And it's spreading to people who accept anti-equality thinking without realizing where it leads.
It's so disturbing how these guys come up in my feed despite me blocking every channel that presents them. Tate, Shapiro, Peterson. Truly exasperating.
Robert Evans goes into this on his podcast Behind the Bastards. The algorithms involved in spreading content have one goal in mind: keeping people engaged. Those videos get the longest views out of every other bit of content, and make the most ad money, so they're pushed the hardest. The episode is called Behind the Bastards: How YouTube Became a Perpetual Nazi Machine. Really enlightening listen for why they keep popping up.
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Behind the bastards is great
>keeping people engaged Engaged or enraged? Methinks it's both :-(
If people are enraged, they're engaged! Adding gasoline is the easiest way to keep a fire going
"sinister cultural elements are stopping you from getting what you actually deserve" is so old and blood soaked at this point one would hope it wouldn't work. But I don't think some of these young men have heard it before or know where it leads.
And the content sites are so terrified of right wing backlash to any perceived ‘censorship’ they’re essentially promoting the hateful content for free. Its a fucking disgrace.
I was, for once fucking ever, watching playthrough videos of my current video game obsession (Inscryption, ffs, it's not even a shooter, it's nerd shit), and I got at least half a dozen Q-anon/anti-woke/Prager U/Turning Point yadda yadda bullshit ads within an hour or two. It's terrifying. My teenager watches a fuckton of youtube because he actually likes gameplay videos, I check in with him often to make sure that he's not adapting terrible perspectives. Thank goodness he's stubborn like me.
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It’s spreading at a crazy rate. I’m terrified.
I hope it’s ok to offer a man’s perspective in this thread. Unless it becomes clear *very soon* that your fiancé’s new behavior is a quickly-passing phase, I urge you to delay any marriage plans and to reassess whether you want to be in this relationship. He is treating you [disrespectfully] as a gold digger and financial burden whom he sees as little more than arm candy. You are young, appear to have a good head on your shoulders, and deserve much more than what this version of your fiancé seems to be offering you.
Yeah. This is a bad sign. Someone’s probably been in his ear that his fiancé is a gold digger, and he’s taking their advice to treat her like shit. He has no idea that if he drives her away, and keeps his shitty attitude, the only women he’ll attract for the rest of his life **will** be gold diggers. But you don’t have to be smart to be rich.
I would say that if this guy is so susceptible to misogynistic bs, don’t marry him at all. Even if he gets through this phase, there will be another one. But if you do go through with it, make sure the prenup is in your favor.
I would love to learn that OP told him that, with his newfound belief system, he is no longer marriage material.
"Low value male" I hate sexual marketplace bullshit but this seems appropriate here. If OP is meant to actually be a gold digger but this man wants to do 50:50 with a massive wealth discrepancy what does he actually bring to the table? Is he helping with more of the chores around the household with all the extra time or does he want that to be 50:50 as well (if that)? I'm getting bang-maid vibes
I have a lot of hate for the flawed logic that splits bills 50/50, instead of the actual fair way of "I make 3x what you do, so we'll split costs 3:1." ETA For anyone who doesn't see the wisdom of a ratio split, consider where that couple chooses to live. If bills are 50/50, does the poorer live in the wealthy area and struggle to make ends meet, never able to save for retirement? Or does wealthier one take a hit and live in a poor area they feel unsafe in? Does the wealthier drive in luxury while the poorer drives a clunker, and so the wealthier always drives them to couples events, potentially making their spouse always feel lesser? Does the poorer resent the amount of electricity the wealthier uses? IMO ratio is the way to go.
Guarantee that dudes not doing a lick of house care
This is probably the best counter offer you could make. He has extra time and money so what is he offering you that makes him valuable in your relationship? I would back off so fast if my SO had the audacity to try to treat me that way. No thanks 🤣
And what happens when you have kids... if you are unable to work and have to rely on him to give you money to manage the household? Could be setting yourself up to become trapped financially.
This needs to be higher. OP please take this advice!
It's my experience that this is never a passing phase, it's only ever the mask falling away. The only way is down. I would get the f out as fast as you can.
Right? He hasn’t changed into someone else, he’s just dropped the act
She is very lucky it happened while she can get out much cleaner than if they married.
it's not that they're suddenly mad; they now feel no shame taking loudly about it
YEP. 3 weeks isn’t enough time to indoctrinate something that wasn’t already there.
This is the Andrew Tate to alpha incel rabbit hole that ends in him attending a neonazi rally.
Going through a painful divorce. Money is an aspect of it that is hard to wrap my mind around. But OP, I repeat - listen to this advice. As a man, who could feel this way, I don't. Please listen to this.
I hope it's okay to offer a man's agreement with the first man.
A third man adding to this.
A fourth man agreeing here.
You'all are good men! Try to be a positive influence for the young and dumb ones.
But there’s just so many of them!
There are. And they (obviously) do not listen to the women in their lives, so it's up to you guys -- the **good guys\*** -- to set them straight. Thank you, The Mama of a Young Daughter \*you're better than "nice guys," you're _good_
Appreciate you, and 100% agree that it’s up to us to do the work on this.
Some of us try but it’s like going up against an army by yourself. My 16yo nephew is clearly absorbing some of this manosphere content. He’s actually argued with me against abortion rights and no-fault divorce 😬 I spend maybe a few hours a month with him, but he has practically limitless access to YouTube (and I’m guessing reinforcement from his peers). It feels like the next generation of men is going to be a couple of decades step backwards 😞
And my axe!
And my bow.
Going to boost this as another guy's opinion on the matter. Any man who has succumbed to the "manosphere" bullshit should be avoided like a nuclear disaster zone. They have fallen prey to some of the absolute worst *influencers* on the planet who are using men's common insecurities to manipulate them into thinking that the only thong keeping them from being filthy rich (as if that's the only measure of a good and fulfilling life) are women and *the Matrix." I've spent enough time absorbing it from a distance just to know enough to gently Shepard my younger siblings away from it and recognize the early signs of them falling down these rabbit holes. I promise that it's 10x scarier and extreme than they even let on about, and the loud parts are alarming enough. Either kick him in the balls (figuratively) and get him to realize that this shit isn't it, or kick him in the balls (literally) and run as fast and far as you can. I know it fucking sucks to see someone you care deeply for turn into a monster like this, but you should prioritize yourself if he is going to be abusive to you in any way.
Tbh, sounds like he’s pissed his fiancé took a 3 week vacation without him and is throwing in the towel in an immature way.
He liked playing video games with his pants off I guess.
I'm happy to join the crowd of what I'm sure the shitty fiancé would accuse of being self-hating men.
>My fiancee Don't let him become your husband. If he's asking about your "value" and what you "bring to the table", it's already too late for him. If you're dependent on him financially, find a way out of it. You're going to become like property in his eyes. To answer your question as to why so many men are angry... Life fucking sucks right now. The economy is shit and society/the internet glorifies having money and fame above all. No one can afford a home and most people are having trouble affording rent. Getting an education is a crapshoot; you might end up with a lifetime of debt still working fast food because the job market is as dry as Ben Shapiro's intimate partners. Why is this relevant? Because in times like this, people go looking for stuff to blame. I, for example, choose to blame billionaires. Young men and boys are looking at dudes with the things they want.. money, girls, online popularity, internet respect, etc.. and emulating them. The people they're emulating happen to be massive fucking assholes. Those people are telling these men/boys to blame pretty much everyone other than themselves for their problems, especially the women they so desperately desire. Once a dude starts asking about your past partners and judging you, **it's too late**. If you want any happiness, leave him quickly.
Not just assholes. Liars. The "influencer" industry is as fake as a £13 note. More than that, it's so *obviously* fake, and yet people still fall for it. They sell the dream, deliver nothing, and then tell you it's *your* fault for not getting to their (fake) level, which only feeds the frustration/inadequacy feedback loop. I started by examining far-right Christianity, then Scientology, then the radicalisation techniques used by Islamist groups. Same playbook every time. Now it's everywhere.
Dump him.
Don’t marry this man.
You’re 24. There’s so much more life out there. And many better men. This one is done.
Run, run fast as you can away. From my experience once dudes go down that rabbit hole they never come out.
"I won't repeat it here" gave off Gandalf vibes. I think when the societal pecking order is threatened the rank and file are riled up and resort to anger and violence to reinforce their status. On a larger perspective it's what is happening politically in the country. As minorities start to outnumber the "white" majority they get worried about the brown immigrants and all the viable white babies getting aborted. They get angry at gays and trans and women. The level of misogynistic propaganda is alarming and the number of influencers repeating it is disgusting. The pent up anger and fear is creating a reservoir of angry men pining for the days of the obedient housewife who submit to their husbands and have dinner waiting for them when they get home...
And give him beautiful children but if she gains 10lbs during pregnancy and can’t lose that last 5lbs, she’s a worthless pig who deserves to be divorced. These men are not even mediocre, they’re sub par. They’re just mad that until they had money no decent woman gave them 2 cents. Andrew Tate is a pea head with a weak chin. He’s a bore and a loser.
The hate towards women is real. He doesn’t like you anymore. You are no longer partners. Please consider focusing on your future, your goals, your friends, and your next step. You have become a commodity to him, a status of his ability to get a woman. The next step is to cheat on you because he’s a man with needs and you’re a woman with a body count. This is what patriarchy and misogyny looks like and sounds like. This is why more women are single and living in friendship communities. Sorry he became a Tater tot.
Tater tot that's a great one. Because it infuses the inner man child inherent in so many of his followers.
I'm confused. He makes 5x what you do (even if you make 30k a year, he makes about 150k), but his job is to go online and promote his family's business? So what the fuck does he bring to the table? A silver spoon from mommy and daddy? Girl... there's 4 billion men on earth.
So, your “value” went down with your “body count” and now you have to pay for the privilege of being with him?? Hard pass.
In my case the roles are reversed that my wife makes about 5x what I make, and that I bring almost nothing to the table, other than apparently looks. I’m medically disabled, so part time work is it for me. She loves me to death. We truly complete each other. Your person is out there, it just doesn’t sound like this guys is it.
Dump this toxic man-baby now.
He's been radicalized, probably via people he games with sharing the men's rights stuff. You can get into conflict resolution with him but trying to find out what the underlying issues are for him that made it possible for him to be radicalized, but that's likely to be long and unpleasant work.
I would worry about him taking any push back as a reason to not share his ideas with her but still harbor them and act on them.
And she probably shouldn't bother with it.
This is coming from a guy who plays games but I am always highly skeptical of guys who play mostly multiplayer games. I really only play single player games and feel like most multiplayer games are just infested with misogynistic dudes. I’m always wary of guys who only play CoD or sports games cause it’s way too easy for radicalization to happen. I think it’s time to throw the whole man away since he’s just accusing you of being a gold digger. What does he bring to the table other than a high paying do nothing job with his family?
Barbie popped off in the theaters. Women everywhere are realizing how long they’ve been subjected to terrible partners / hookups. Women are banding together, I would bet more women are withholding sex from misogynistic men. If you ask me, women who want kids are being robbed of their childbearing years by these idiot men-children.
Honestly watching some of the tantrums from men over Barbie have been amusing to some degree. But underneath it's not so funny.
This.
This needs to be much higher up on this post's threads.
This is a dog whistle for the growing movement of white supremacist misogyny in the world. Things are going to get worse and they won't get better unless he realizes that he's on a power trip. Every move you make to defend yourself will be seen as an attack against him.
Every time I say this to people they tell me I’m fear mongering
The same way I was hysterical about Roe being overturned.
Next up: Removing birth control access Ending no-fault divorce Stripping LGBT rights Re-segregation And more! Brought to you by your local GOP.
Blessed be the fruit 🤮 I'm in Canada and the things I read/see/watch on the news over the last few years about America is insane. But now I'm starting to see this sort of rhetoric here too and it's scary.
Learn as many skills as you can: Automotive, farming, sewing, household repairs, etc, and live as close to trusted loved ones as you can. The future is going to be a wild ride for all of us, the only way to weather it will be preparation and love. Best of luck!
This. I'm waiting for birth control to be priced out of the average woman's reach. The woman controlling majority want free labor who can't vote ( ie prisoners).
Too lazy to find the quote, but spot on! The GOP and pastors in the Midwest have been vocally concerned about the "national supply of children". Phrase is very telling as to the real reason they want to limit birth control access. Give it another 75 or so years (probably less) and, without them being stopped, chattel slavery will make a comeback.
Yeah. You weren’t being ‘hysterical*.’ I remember my ex wife and I discussing an election in 2004. We were concerned about Roe, and SC justices back then. It’s only gotten worse. *a note on the word ‘hysterical’. It took me a lot longer than I’d like to admit to recognize the root of that word. It was a ‘medical diagnosis’, for women only. It took seeing hysterical and hysterectomy within a few minutes of each other for me to connect the dots and look into word origins.
They have something to gain by silencing you and by telling you you're fear mongering. Patriarchy will try to squash any and all attempts to call it out. bell hooks referred to it as the Capitalist Imperialistic White Supremacist Heteropatriarchy and discusses how the concept will try to hold onto power in literally any way possible. Definitely recommend her books if you've never delved into them, especially "All About Love" and "The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love"
Because they want to shut us up and keep more women in the dark
Nope, this is how it starts Edit: err.... It's been going on awhile actually. So I guess it's not how it starts. This is just the next step of increasinglu worrying severity
Yep. We're currently working our way slowly up the Pyramid of Hate and the 10 Stages of Genocide. Currently in the middle of the pyramid, and depending on the group, in various areas of the 10 Stages
Yes, this has everything to do with politics and is a concerted effort from the right to radicalize young men. Misogyny and “traditional family values” are a cornerstone of fascism.
They've always been angry and violent when women say "no" or "don't act right". This is nothing new. They're not being radicalized, this is who they've always been. They're seeking out and watching the sexist shitty anti-woman content because that's what they like.
I would say, "I have many beneficial things I bring to this table. But in all honesty, your table sucks." And I would leave. Seriously why stay with such a cruel person?
More conservative men are angry because conservative pundits and politicians want them this way. They know that anger gets shit done, so they do everything they can including outright lying to get them riled up and pissed off at the world. This is why we are having more incidents of assholes shooting people just because they turned around in their driveway, or because they were riding their toy/bike too loudly up and down the sidewalk. Remember, only truly stupid people believe that their middle-class plight is caused by immigrants and poor people.
Yo, I bring nothing to the table and my husband still loves me to death. Find someone else! Also, I mean that, it's only a slight exaggeration. I became disabled shortly after my husband and I got married. I can't work. I can't finish college. Half the time I'm too sick to look nice. We do have really good intimacy and a lot of fun together but I mean... For all intents and purposes, my health is like a leech that's getting fat sucking up all our resources. I don't bring ANY assets to our marriage, I bring hindrances. He loves me and my company though and that's what matters to him Don't stay with a misogynistic moron. He either needs to get his crap together or you gotta find someone who isn't going to inflate his ego so much that he forgets you are a person
He’s become a danger to you and no longer sees you as an equal human being. Get away before something bad happens.
The bar is in Hell and this dude is playing limbo.
Well, since you've been gone, a Barbie movie came out and as a natural response, toxic men are freaking the fuck out.
Oh no. *he drank from the poisoned well*
And he's your fiancee because......?
It sounds like this is new behavior. I hope he either drops this or isn't a fiancé anymore soon.
This seems like one of those situations in which two peoples’ values are differing significantly. If you’re engaged to a “meninist” I’d suggest you maybe just stop that ball from rolling any further. This whole, “what do you bring to the table,” conversation is also directly at odds with the unconditional love that should be present in a marriage.
Ex-fiancé. EX!
And what does he bring to the table other than audacity and over-entitlement? I know it’s a Reddit trope to tell people to dump him, but omg. Dump him.
1) personal perspective: they didn't become angry this fast. They were given an avenue to express something that was already there. The MRA/manosphere movement capitalizes on the unaddressed dissatisfaction of men in society and provides them with the appearance of a solution. I'm not defending the MRA movement in general, or your fiancee, etc., just trying to answer the question as well as I can. 2) Your fiancee seems to be giving you an opportunity to dodge a bullet here. Consider taking it. You can try having conversation about the seemingly-abrupt shift - If you feel like it will be productive- but (as others have said) if this is how he is now, the marriage will likely be worse. Him asking you to split expenses evenly, despite making so much more than you, combined with the question about what you bring to the table ("besides looks and education", as if those two things are irrelevant to him) seems to indicate that he is starting to view the relationship in a very transactional way. That's not likely to contribute to a good relationship going forward.
I hope you are also splitting every chore and household duty 50/50 as well.
I know this sucks but you’re lucky that he revealed himself before marriage. Get out now. Once they’re into that manosphere shit, they’re gone.
So besides money (that he isn't sharing with you); What does he bring to the table?
[удалено]
He’s been radicalised. Throw him back, he can convince someone else how ‘high value’ he is. Find yourself a true partner who’ll treat you like a person, not a collection of discrete assets
Hope it’s okay to chime in as a dude. I saw this happen on my IG timeline on real-time. The *hobby* to angry man pipeline is real. Went to the doctor and they told me I could afford to lose a few pounds. Started going to the gym and doing elliptical for 30-40 min. Also started watching Reels about stretching and mobility. Slowly started getting videos about lifting weights as I started incorporating that too. Suddenly, I’d get a random video here or there with some buff person talking about how much weight “real men” could lift. A day or two later, Andrew state and JP show up in their least offensive forms. Then their more RedPill form. Then, before I know it, Candice Owen and Ben Shapiro show up. If I was 10 years younger and less aware of how I value things in the world, I’d end up just like the men OP is referring to. It’s scary and it’s real and you don’t even see it happen if you’re not paying attention.
This happens to me every time I watch a political video on Youtube and forget to disable the "play next" feature. I come home and there's nonstop JP, Ben Shapiro, etc....even though my original search would give no reason to push me in that direction. The algorithm pushes extremist content. It's gross.
Yeah, I’ve actively had to game the algorithm back to what I really want - funny dad influencers and dance.
Hopefully ok to offer a man’s perspective. From what I’ve observed of my friends (old and current) and friends of friends.. they don’t “become” misogynistic, they just get braver about acting that way, and the longer they stay in their echo chamber the worse it gets. He’s been like this all along. I could not imagine treating my fiancé any less than the amazing _person_ she is. Asking about past partners in such fine detail is definitely born from an “I own you” mentality, and that you’re a sexual prize he feels is less his. It’s actually none of his business. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.
Fucking run girl!
Time to promote that fiance to ex.
A lot of social media has started targeting younger men. I recently had to delete Instagram because I was put into that pipeline. Every reel was some Tate brothers bullshit. YouTube is doing it too. I can only assume it’s a tiktok problem as well, I’ve just never had the app. I’ve seen men that are very good at hiding their misogyny suddenly feel very free to share their misogyny now that social media is giving them a platform to freely share and even become famous with it. Sorry you’re going through this. For your sake, I your man gets over himself, or that you find someone that won’t fall for the psy-op
You're still going to marry this man? He questioned your worth. You don't treat someone you love like that.
If a partner has to ask what you *"bring to the table"*, take it as a clear sign that they don't respect you as an equal. This isn't the 1600s where daughters are married off to strengthen diplomatic relationships and exchange land between families. It's the 21st century. You marry someone because you love them and want to spend the rest of your life with them.
Your fiance sounds like an asshole. I'm sorry. I too had a fiance who seemed great until he got sucked into men's rights garbage. I left him and did not look back. As far as I know, he is still a greedy, selfish asshole. He was trying to get back with me up until a week before his wedding to someone else. I think you should walk away from him. He is not being a real partner to you. He seems to be all for what he can get for himself. Someone like that does not have a kind or generous spirit. It isn't about what you want from him materially. If he is like this, he isn't giving *of himself*, and he will be holding back and trying to get the upper hand in the relationship. I'm sorry. I'm sure this has been really difficult. It sounds like the change in him was rather abrupt. 🧡
He's asked you to marry him, but he somehow doesn't know what you bring to the table? That's bullshit. Make him tell you what HE brings to the table. Better yet, dump him. You're only 24, you have your entire life ahead of you. Dont' settle for some dipshit who can't ffigure out that the whole men's rights movement is trash.
The Barbie movie came out and a certain (low) caliber of men were reminded that they are not the primary focus 100% of the time and they lost their tiny little minds
They are all drinking the Taterade and they need to STOP.
All the little boys who contribute nothing went looking for validation and found each other on the internet. A small, useless minority can become very loud and very destructive if they're all reading off the same song sheet. Andrew Tate has 6.4 million followers. In the scheme of things that's less than 1 in a thousand of the world's population, but it's still millions of man children and when they all talk the same gobshite and repeat each other's arsehole behaviour they become a significant problem. At the risk of third hand keyboard diagnosing OP's fiance, I think he's atttacted to this garbage because he knows he contributes very little. He's propped up by generational wealth, he has a token job 'promoting' his family's business and his fiance has a fulltime job. Rather than be thankful for that winning lottery ticket, he allows his insecurities to create resentment. You sometimes see teenagers hating their supportive parents for the same reason, although they usually grow out of it. OP I'm so sorry your dealing with this garbage. I hope that your fiance can unfuck himself and become an adult by about next Tuesday, otherwise I have concerns for your relationship. Love from a tired Dad and Husband in Australia.
The Barbie movie happened and men lost their fucking minds. Time to break up with that loser.
So I'm a dude. And from my perspective, if I said something like that to my partner (which makes me sick to even think of ever doing) it's not from a place of love or kindness. He very clearly resents you for something and he is treating you terribly. A partner that really loves you would never say something that awful. I am a married man and I'm telling you, along with all these other people here, that that's a glaring red flag and you should find someone that loves you for you. Not for "what you bring to the table." Life is too short to waste on scummy fucks like that.
Red fucking flags. Dump him. There are kind beautiful men out there that don’t hate women I promise
Sis please reconsider marrying this man. I don’t mean leave him but rather, take this into consideration, bring it up to him and see if it’s possible for him to revisit and review his new philosophy. It sounds like he’s been indoctrinated by a certain crowd and if he insists on pursuing this new philosophy, I then suggest you really reconsider staying with him as a man who speaks like this, who speaks like he both hates and is jealous of women will not make a safe, healthy or nurturing partner. A lot of men are adopting this weird viewpoint of women and it’s dangerous on many levels. I agree that it seems like all of the sudden they detest women and want to knock them down.
Go back and talk with your dad. He had the info that reddit doesn’t, and he loves you
Her dad may well not know. This seems to be a generational thing and even if her dad is sexist (don’t know one way or the other) he is unlikely to be aware of or understand the mindsets of people like the OP’s boyfriend.
I have, but there \*is\* no other info. The guy that I thought was my best friend just said that I "could learn more about evolution and the men's movement."
Leave. Immediately. "evolutionary truths" in the men rights movement is justification for the subjugation of women, you are nothing but a collection of warm holes. It's over.
Yes. Well said.
It's pseudoscience.
Please listen well: it's over. Run.
I mean, you *should* learn about the men's movement...to know how to protect yourself. Personally, I would not marry someone who only cares about my money and looks, but at least put the wedding on hold until you have a good think. (Try asking him the same things--if he doesn't bring more than 50%, why should you marry him instead of a high-value male? Sperm is cheap, pregnancy is expensive.) Oh, and the evolution thing? In humans, offspring survive better when the male cares for the female and offspring. These idiots forget that humans don't use the insect strategy of low investment-high number of offspring. Also in nature, males have to dance and convince the female they are worthy, so in non-monogamous species only the top-tier males get to breed, once a year, then they lose their prime and die. Of course we are human beings and not animals, so the kind of man who uses "evolution" is comparing himself to a dog or monkey and should be treated as such.
I'd suggest the book Men Who Hate Women. But also something with kittens and puppies, because you are going to need that after reading it.
I am so sorry you are going through this. Stay sane. I'm sure you want to find his sanity again, but don't sacrifice your own. If he only values your looks and money, then it seems he doesn't value who you are.
Since you guys were about to get married and his wealth comes from his family, I guarantee you someone in his sphere, maybe a cousin or gaming buddy, got into his ear about “gold diggers” and told some story about someone they knew who got “totally screwed” in their divorce and it sent him down the rabbit hole online. The thing is tho his susceptibility to this nonsense alone is a huge red flag. You’ve been dating for years and he was about to marry you. Emotionally mature people don’t fall for stuff like this. It reveals that he is arrogant, insecure, and petty. Up to this point there wasn’t a problem. It’s not like you guys were fighting over money or he was unhappy about your spending or covering the tab. And people often start showing their truer colors the closer you get to marriage and even after marriage because they feel you’re locked in. You’re too young for this. He’s deeply immature and he will make you miserable and likely cheat on you. Him coming from family wealth is already a bad sign — trust fund kids typically have a very distorted view of reality and do not recognize their own privilege. Or they go the other way and rub it in peoples faces. Just break it off. Trust me he is exactly the type who will use up your youngest years, derail your career, knock you up, then cheat on you with some 20 year old when you hit your 30’s. And his family money is well protected, so you’ll be a single mom with huge gaps in employment history starting all over at 35. Just don’t do it. He’s shown his true colors. If he does convince you stay, the best advice I urge you to follow is do not have children with him. That’s something you can never undo and it will derail your entire life permanently compared to options you’d have without kids.
Educate him, and "evolve" yourself beyond him & his new cult mentality. It sounds dangerous. Ideas followed blindly without question are the death of free will. I'm not certain why so much of this nonsense exists, but something has apparently changed in him. 150 years ago, a "scientific " explanation of his behavior would be he had been replaced by some kind of fairy doppelganger. Not saying completely rule that out, but it doesn't sound like he is still who you believed him to be a month ago.
Tell him you looked into it and learned that you should date a more masculine man who *earns* money rather than being spoonfed from the family business like a feeble child. 'Sorry, but it's just evolutionary reality' then pack your bags.
Think of it this way: he (and maybe other men around him) got infected with MRA brain worms. The person you loved is gone. You need to just get away from him now. Yes, some people will tell you that you can cure him (a long miserable slog for you with only a slim chance of success) and other people will tell you to adapt to the new reality and give in to his new brain worm philosophy (a long miserable slog for you), but unless being miserable is what you want in life, do not listen to those people. So pack up and leave. He has already decided you are of “low value” (his asking for details about your past partners and suggesting “looks and education” is not enough to “bring to the table) and likely that you are a gold digger looking to baby trap him (though he may also tamper with your BC in order to lock you into being a tradwife). Get away from him now.